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{\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 329.45, \"end\": 329.79, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"港\", \"start\": 329.79, \"end\": 329.97, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"港\", \"start\": 329.97, \"end\": 330.13, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 330.13, \"end\": 330.27, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 330.27, \"end\": 330.37, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 330.37, \"end\": 330.49, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 330.49, \"end\": 331.17, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 331.17, \"end\": 331.35, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 331.35, \"end\": 331.37, \"score\": 0.147}]}, {\"start\": 333.157, \"end\": 348.305, \"text\": \"香港局齁都是飲水人的這個安全管理的問題飲水人辦事處啊強制飲水區啊或者是這個VTS系統的整個制度內的改善等等他也是長期以來說累積出來的問題所以他需要較多時間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"香\", \"start\": 333.157, \"end\": 333.337, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"港\", \"start\": 333.337, \"end\": 333.617, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 333.617, \"end\": 334.918, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 334.918, \"end\": 335.258, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 335.258, \"end\": 335.778, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"飲\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 335.778, \"end\": 335.979, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 335.979, \"end\": 336.159, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 336.159, \"end\": 336.799, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 336.799, \"end\": 336.979, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 336.979, \"end\": 337.159, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 337.159, \"end\": 337.319, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 337.319, \"end\": 337.439, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 337.439, \"end\": 337.559, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"飲\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 337.559, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 345.224, \"end\": 345.784, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 345.784, \"end\": 345.904, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 345.904, \"end\": 346.504, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 346.504, \"end\": 346.965, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 346.965, \"end\": 347.225, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 347.225, \"end\": 347.805, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 347.805, \"end\": 347.865, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 347.865, \"end\": 347.925, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 347.925, \"end\": 348.085, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 348.085, \"end\": 348.205, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 348.205, \"end\": 348.285, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 348.285, \"end\": 348.305, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}]}, {\"start\": 349.286, \"end\": 378.699, \"text\": \"所以就是長期累積的問題所以這個算是岸上管裡面的問題還是航行上面的一些管裡面的問題都有但是最主要還是在岸上這邊的問題岸上這邊的問題嗎那陸籍的船隻的這個部分我們預計五月提這個會有先會有一個中期的一個報告算是一個中期的報告嘛那年底的時候會有一個完整的報告那在這段時間那大家當然還是會擔心啦那有沒有部分的東西是可以先立即要求航港局去做改善的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 349.286, \"end\": 349.366, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 349.366, \"end\": 349.426, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 349.426, \"end\": 349.546, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 349.546, \"end\": 349.946, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 349.946, \"end\": 350.086, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 350.086, \"end\": 350.427, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 350.427, \"end\": 350.547, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 350.547, \"end\": 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\"text\": \"我們可以給委員一些資料就是說他有分階段分期之後我們可以把資料給委員參考就是分階段就出判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目然後中期的時候5月的這份報告也會有部分的改項目包括最後期末的時候今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改項目是這樣子分階段嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 379.982, \"end\": 380.422, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 380.422, \"end\": 380.602, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 380.602, \"end\": 381.583, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 381.583, \"end\": 381.843, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 381.843, \"end\": 381.943, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 381.943, \"end\": 382.783, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 382.783, \"end\": 382.943, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 382.943, \"end\": 383.083, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 383.083, \"end\": 383.583, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 383.583, \"end\": 383.783, \"score\": 0.956}, 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\"text\": \"有關於那個是玉州啟航他從基隆港離開那個時候剛好是颱風他去避颱他到廣東附近避颱這個避颱的過程中因為外面的颱風外圍環流非常的強烈所以他沒辦法順利的到達他的目的去避航\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 476.572, \"end\": 476.732, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 476.732, \"end\": 477.813, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 477.813, \"end\": 478.074, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 478.074, \"end\": 478.214, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"玉\", \"start\": 478.214, \"end\": 478.334, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"州\", \"start\": 478.334, \"end\": 478.775, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"啟\"}, {\"word\": \"航\", \"start\": 478.775, \"end\": 479.475, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 479.475, \"end\": 480.116, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 480.116, \"end\": 480.236, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"隆\", \"start\": 480.236, \"end\": 480.396, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"港\", \"start\": 480.396, \"end\": 481.338, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 585.354, \"end\": 586.255, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 586.255, \"end\": 586.335, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 586.335, \"end\": 586.475, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 586.475, \"end\": 587.096, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"似\", \"start\": 587.096, \"end\": 587.196, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 587.196, \"end\": 587.296, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 587.296, \"end\": 587.796, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 587.796, \"end\": 587.936, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 587.936, \"end\": 588.016, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 588.016, \"end\": 588.277, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 588.277, \"end\": 588.437, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 588.437, \"end\": 588.537, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"麻\", \"start\": 588.537, \"end\": 588.797, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 588.797, \"end\": 588.857, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 588.857, \"end\": 589.017, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 589.017, \"end\": 589.497, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 589.497, \"end\": 589.578, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 589.578, \"end\": 589.598, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,796 --> 00:00:10,033\n好謝謝主席喔麻煩邀請我們林主委好應安會林主委主委好這剛剛\n\n2\n00:00:12,246 --> 00:00:40,808\n我剛剛聽到這個林俊憲委員的這個詢答啦那有提到說可能台鐵發生事故的時候那都會說等運安會的人來到現場所以等了一些時間其實我自己本身有這樣子的一個經驗啦在之前有一次連假的時候那也是在大概在平溪縣的時候有一個出軌啦出軌的事情那他們也是用這樣子的方式回答我說要等到運安會的人到了現場把該採集的資料採集完了之後他們的工程單位的人員才能夠去做\n\n3\n00:00:41,568 --> 00:01:03,318\n後續的一個搶救跟復救的一個工作當然等我們的人來我們這個可能在上班日或者是連假的時候我們人員到達的時間總是比較沒有一定因為我們畢竟不是像他們那種大的單位隨時都有人駐守那我想確認一下我們運安會針對各項的事故那可能尤其是公路的運輸或者是鐵道運輸這個可能會比較影響到這個\n\n4\n00:01:07,220 --> 00:01:15,369\n通勤民眾通勤的一些問題我們有沒有在不同的時段要求我們的同仁抵達的一個時間的限制就自通報期\n\n5\n00:01:17,545 --> 00:01:42,944\n事實上我們有24小時在值班你們都24小時值班對我們一通報就是第一時間就同仁如果是下班時間都會馬上就會調回來所以各組也都會有都有各組24小時值班我們運安會有一個24小時值班人員這個值班人員就負責通報屬於航空的水路鐵道什麼就通報各調查組的人該回來是所以說休息的時候就會把他們Call回來沒有錯\n\n6\n00:01:43,985 --> 00:01:49,925\n包括他們休息的時候我們也都會有待命的就是說我們雖然是休息但是可能也都會有相關的一個\n\n7\n00:01:50,902 --> 00:02:15,567\n待命的輪值表就是說如果說在這段休假的期間有需要的話雖然說你休假那我們會優先找誰會有這樣子的一個機制嗎有各組各組放假日長假日都有輪值表就是說你下班你雖然是譬如說前面一節假期嘛四天那你是輪到的你不准離開大台北地區你不可以到南部去有都有是嗎那有相關的要求抵達時間的一個要求嗎\n\n8\n00:02:16,647 --> 00:02:33,793\n呃最快的速度都會快最快了怎麼都是一到就包計程車就過去因為可能台鐵都會說我們的人先到了但是運航位的人還沒到我想這個這個是誤傳誤傳喔好那沒關係我們現場調查總是要一些時間啦我想有時候各自單位會有不同的立場啦\n\n9\n00:02:35,593 --> 00:03:02,901\n指責別的單位都是最容易的啦那就是可能之後在相關的摩擦或者說在怎樣的情況下我們台鐵能夠做哪一些預制的準備動作可能在等我們運安會在調查的時候人員到達前或者是調查過程收證的過程中我們哪一些處置桌子有時候我們也可以跟哪一些比較頻繁發生事故的單位有一些在時程上面的一些合作的模式啦希望說我們後面能夠多一些協調少一點摩擦這樣子是因為\n\n10\n00:03:05,526 --> 00:03:26,629\n因為我們最快的時間尤其是鐵路因為他很快就要復舊要恢復他的運轉我們會最快的速度去事實上還有一個原因就是我們最快的時間去會把證據流失我們要蒐集證據我們要帶著儀器不是空手去我們要帶著儀器有的儀器是重型的有的時候是輕型的不一定要看casebycase\n\n11\n00:03:26,769 --> 00:03:45,514\n是好那就後續再麻煩是謝謝委員長那另外啊再看我們的這個今天的報告啊因為之前去年有一個那個入籍的船隻嘛那在野柳外海擱淺嘛那我就看了一下我們後面針對各個單位啊針對各個單位我們預案會提出的缺失未改正的一些統計表我們發現\n\n12\n00:03:47,734 --> 00:04:16,617\n有些單位跟其他單位落差的還蠻大的包括航港局這個他的案件數總案件數就是自己一個人高高在上這樣子那三年以上的三年以上的雖然說案件數沒那麼高但是台鐵這個單位確實也比其他單位的數量明顯的增加了許多我不曉得我們實際上在跟這兩個單位在溝通的時候我們是提出了哪些東西讓他們好像沒有辦法達成有沒有辦法做一些減要的概述因為\n\n13\n00:04:17,130 --> 00:04:37,569\n可能今年到了這個我們颱風季要如果說有任何的水域發生事故的話對我們的漁民大家都是非常擔心的啦我們也是希望說避免那看到這樣子的一個未達成缺失的一個案件統計大家真的還是會比較擔心的能不能針對這兩個單位的缺失狀況跟大家說明一下\n\n14\n00:04:40,373 --> 00:05:07,421\n呃有些單位像台鐵台鐵他的被安全感他的那個項目裡面的設計台鐵的組織要調整譬如說他要安裝這個駕駛式的影音記錄器設置等等他要設計法規的修訂等等所以這些對台鐵來講就是屬於就是他幾十年來沒做突然要做他需要制度面甚至他必須要跟同仁所以跟經費有關嗎還是單純管理面的問題\n\n15\n00:05:08,340 --> 00:05:31,370\n有的是經費有的是管理面有的是觀念的溝通好那可不可以會後就是針對台鐵的這五項的缺失我們三年以上的沒有改善的這五項具體的一個項目我們的可能給他們的資料也給我們也給我辦公室或者是給交委會一份這樣子沒問題那另外港港局的部分20多件\n\n16\n00:05:33,157 --> 00:05:48,305\n香港局齁都是飲水人的這個安全管理的問題飲水人辦事處啊強制飲水區啊或者是這個VTS系統的整個制度內的改善等等他也是長期以來說累積出來的問題所以他需要較多時間\n\n17\n00:05:49,286 --> 00:06:18,699\n所以就是長期累積的問題所以這個算是岸上管裡面的問題還是航行上面的一些管裡面的問題都有但是最主要還是在岸上這邊的問題岸上這邊的問題嗎那陸籍的船隻的這個部分我們預計五月提這個會有先會有一個中期的一個報告算是一個中期的報告嘛那年底的時候會有一個完整的報告那在這段時間那大家當然還是會擔心啦那有沒有部分的東西是可以先立即要求航港局去做改善的\n\n18\n00:06:19,982 --> 00:06:41,889\n我們可以給委員一些資料就是說他有分階段分期之後我們可以把資料給委員參考就是分階段就出判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目然後中期的時候5月的這份報告也會有部分的改項目包括最後期末的時候今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改項目是這樣子分階段嗎\n\n19\n00:06:42,969 --> 00:07:08,556\n都沒有說分短中長期啦但是我們調查報告過程調查過程中是就如我剛剛講他有有譬如說事實資料報告然後調查期限當前通告等等那這些過程中因為水路單位港港局港務公司交通部因為每一個調查案都是屬於參與式調查他們都有派員來參與所以他們在參與的過程中就會知道他們都已經知道都會知道嘛\n\n20\n00:07:08,956 --> 00:07:37,022\n所以很多調查案到我們最終調查報告出來之後然後提出安全改善建議結果他安全改善一下子就提出來因為他過程中已經開始在做了那到目前野柳的這個個案我們目前所認定可能最大的為師會是在哪一邊就是需要具體改善的項目就是我剛剛講制度沒有就飲水人的問題嘛飲水辦事處的問題等等嘛有沒有具體的就是這個制度的哪個問題\n\n21\n00:07:37,884 --> 00:07:53,249\n有就是他移水瓦他要蓋嘛他修移水瓦花很多時間他已經花了一兩年的時間因為那個是一個很大的一個花有沒有辦法用比較白畫的方式就是可能他造成這次事故最主要的原因白畫一點好我請水路主調查因為他比較細好\n\n22\n00:07:56,572 --> 00:08:15,695\n有關於那個是玉州啟航他從基隆港離開那個時候剛好是颱風他去避颱他到廣東附近避颱這個避颱的過程中因為外面的颱風外圍環流非常的強烈所以他沒辦法順利的到達他的目的去避航\n\n23\n00:08:16,095 --> 00:08:41,464\n那這中間他就被這個強烈的風就吹到這個就是就是這個岸上擱淺那這個案子呢他最主要的事就是剛好談到他避台他如果去因為他是在這個港區裡面碰到颱風的時候我如果及時讓這條船就出去但是他之前要破有個案子他把兩個這個他把一個喬斯基給給推倒自己喬斯基也壞掉\n\n24\n00:08:42,044 --> 00:08:58,884\n所以這個案子本身又要賠償它談賠償需要時間所以這個賠償的時間也耽擱到後面的離港時間所以是一連串的包括在港區裡面它什麼時候要離開港區需要飲水人所以剛剛我們主委提到這個飲水人的事情\n\n25\n00:08:59,424 --> 00:09:24,939\n所以就是說這是一連串的事情就在一起然後到時候他就沒辦法這個順利這個去避難所以這中間呢我們就牽涉到的是有飲水欄的啦有這個防台措施啦還有這個這條船呢他因為他是擱淺在這個我們的北海岸這附近但是這個時候因為天氣非常不好他去一條非常大的這個救難船但是我們國內目前其實並沒有這麼大型的救難船\n\n26\n00:09:25,819 --> 00:09:49,598\n已經知道他會擱淺但是他還沒擱淺之前能不能趕快把他抓回來這是一個我們要討論的議題所以後面這個也是我們運安會調查的重點就是事故發生之後處理的緊急應變問題是以上好那就是今年颱風季也要到了去年每年都有颱風那就希望說大家擔心的事情我們能夠督促我們的香港局不要再讓類似的情況再次的發生再麻煩我們的運安會好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n796\t10033\t好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們林主委好 應安會林主委主委好這剛剛\n12246\t40808\t我剛剛聽到這個林俊憲委員的這個詢答啦那有提到說可能台鐵發生事故的時候那都會說等運安會的人來到現場所以等了一些時間其實我自己本身有這樣子的一個經驗啦在之前有一次連假的時候那也是在大概在平溪縣的時候有一個出軌啦出軌的事情那他們也是用這樣子的方式回答我說要等到運安會的人到了現場把該採集的資料採集完了之後他們的工程單位的人員才能夠去做\n41568\t63318\t後續的一個搶救跟復救的一個工作當然等我們的人來我們這個可能在上班日或者是連假的時候我們人員到達的時間總是比較沒有一定因為我們畢竟不是像他們那種大的單位隨時都有人駐守那我想確認一下我們運安會針對各項的事故那可能尤其是公路的運輸或者是鐵道運輸這個可能會比較影響到這個\n67220\t75369\t通勤 民眾通勤的一些問題我們有沒有在不同的時段要求我們的同仁抵達的一個時間的限制就自通報期\n77545\t102944\t事實上我們有24小時在值班你們都24小時值班對 我們一通報就是第一時間就同仁如果是下班時間都會馬上就會調回來所以各組也都會有都有各組24小時值班我們運安會有一個24小時值班人員這個值班人員就負責通報屬於航空的水路鐵道什麼就通報各調查組的人該回來是 所以說休息的時候就會把他們Call回來沒有錯\n103985\t109925\t包括他們休息的時候我們也都會有待命的就是說我們雖然是休息但是可能也都會有相關的一個\n110902\t135567\t待命的輪值表就是說如果說在這段休假的期間有需要的話雖然說你休假那我們會優先找誰會有這樣子的一個機制嗎有各組各組放假日長假日都有輪值表就是說你下班你雖然是譬如說前面一節假期嘛四天那你是輪到的你不准離開大台北地區你不可以到南部去有都有是嗎那有相關的要求抵達時間的一個要求嗎\n136647\t153793\t呃 最快的速度都會快最快了怎麼都是一到就包計程車就過去因為可能台鐵都會說我們的人先到了但是運航位的人還沒到我想這個這個是誤傳誤傳喔好 那沒關係我們現場調查總是要一些時間啦我想 有時候各自單位會有不同的立場啦\n155593\t182901\t指責別的單位都是最容易的啦那就是可能之後在相關的摩擦或者說在怎樣的情況下我們台鐵能夠做哪一些預制的準備動作可能在等我們運安會在調查的時候人員到達前或者是調查過程 收證的過程中我們哪一些處置桌子有時候我們也可以跟哪一些比較頻繁發生事故的單位有一些在時程上面的一些合作的模式啦希望說我們後面能夠多一些協調 少一點摩擦這樣子是 因為\n185526\t206629\t因為我們最快的時間尤其是鐵路因為他很快就要復舊要恢復他的運轉我們會最快的速度去事實上還有一個原因就是我們最快的時間去會把證據流失我們要蒐集證據我們要帶著儀器不是空手去我們要帶著儀器有的儀器是重型的有的時候是輕型的不一定要看case by case\n206769\t225514\t是好那就後續再麻煩是謝謝委員長那另外啊再看我們的這個今天的報告啊因為之前去年有一個那個入籍的船隻嘛那在野柳外海擱淺嘛那我就看了一下我們後面針對各個單位啊針對各個單位我們預案會提出的缺失未改正的一些統計表我們發現\n227734\t256617\t有些單位跟其他單位落差的還蠻大的包括航港局這個他的案件數總案件數就是自己一個人高高在上這樣子那三年以上的三年以上的雖然說案件數沒那麼高但是台鐵這個單位確實也比其他單位的數量明顯的增加了許多我不曉得我們實際上在跟這兩個單位在溝通的時候我們是提出了哪些東西讓他們好像沒有辦法達成有沒有辦法做一些減要的概述因為\n257130\t277569\t可能今年到了這個我們颱風季要如果說有任何的水域發生事故的話對我們的漁民大家都是非常擔心的啦我們也是希望說避免那看到這樣子的一個未達成缺失的一個案件統計大家真的還是會比較擔心的能不能針對這兩個單位的缺失狀況跟大家說明一下\n280373\t307421\t呃有些單位像台鐵台鐵他的被安全感他的那個項目裡面的設計台鐵的組織要調整譬如說他要安裝這個駕駛式的影音記錄器設置等等他要設計法規的修訂等等所以這些對台鐵來講就是屬於就是他幾十年來沒做突然要做他需要制度面甚至他必須要跟同仁所以跟經費有關嗎還是單純管理面的問題\n308340\t331370\t有的是經費有的是管理面有的是觀念的溝通好那可不可以會後就是針對台鐵的這五項的缺失我們三年以上的沒有改善的這五項具體的一個項目我們的可能給他們的資料也給我們也給我辦公室或者是給交委會一份這樣子沒問題那另外港港局的部分20多件\n333157\t348305\t香港局齁都是飲水人的這個安全管理的問題飲水人辦事處啊強制飲水區啊或者是這個VTS系統的整個制度內的改善等等他也是長期以來說累積出來的問題所以他需要較多時間\n349286\t378699\t所以就是長期累積的問題所以這個算是岸上管裡面的問題還是航行上面的一些管裡面的問題都有但是最主要還是在岸上這邊的問題岸上這邊的問題嗎那陸籍的船隻的這個部分我們預計五月提這個會有先會有一個中期的一個報告算是一個中期的報告嘛那年底的時候會有一個完整的報告那在這段時間那大家當然還是會擔心啦那有沒有部分的東西是可以先立即要求航港局去做改善的\n379982\t401889\t我們可以給委員一些資料就是說他有分階段分期之後我們可以把資料給委員參考就是分階段就出判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目然後中期的時候5月的這份報告也會有部分的改項目包括最後期末的時候今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改項目是這樣子分階段嗎\n402969\t428556\t都沒有說分短中長期啦但是我們調查報告過程調查過程中是就如我剛剛講他有有譬如說事實資料報告然後調查期限當前通告等等那這些過程中因為水路單位 港港局 港務公司 交通部因為每一個調查案都是屬於參與式調查他們都有派員來參與所以他們在參與的過程中就會知道他們都已經知道都會知道嘛\n428956\t457022\t所以很多調查案到我們最終調查報告出來之後然後提出安全改善建議結果他安全改善一下子就提出來因為他過程中已經開始在做了那到目前野柳的這個個案我們目前所認定可能最大的為師會是在哪一邊就是需要具體改善的項目就是我剛剛講制度沒有就飲水人的問題嘛飲水辦事處的問題等等嘛有沒有具體的就是這個制度的哪個問題\n457884\t473249\t有就是他移水瓦他要蓋嘛他修移水瓦花很多時間他已經花了一兩年的時間因為那個是一個很大的一個花有沒有辦法用比較白畫的方式就是可能他造成這次事故最主要的原因白畫一點好我請水路主調查因為他比較細好\n476572\t495695\t有關於那個是玉州啟航他從基隆港離開那個時候剛好是颱風他去避颱他到廣東附近避颱這個避颱的過程中因為外面的颱風外圍環流非常的強烈所以他沒辦法順利的到達他的目的去避航\n496095\t521464\t那這中間他就被這個強烈的風就吹到這個就是就是這個岸上擱淺那這個案子呢他最主要的事就是剛好談到他避台他如果去因為他是在這個港區裡面碰到颱風的時候我如果及時讓這條船就出去但是他之前要破有個案子他把兩個這個他把一個喬斯基給給推倒自己喬斯基也壞掉\n522044\t538884\t所以這個案子本身又要賠償 它談賠償需要時間所以這個賠償的時間 也耽擱到後面的離港時間所以是一連串的 包括在港區裡面它什麼時候要離開港區需要飲水人所以剛剛我們主委提到這個飲水人的事情\n539424\t564939\t所以就是說這是一連串的事情就在一起然後到時候他就沒辦法這個順利這個去避難所以這中間呢我們就牽涉到的是有飲水欄的啦有這個防台措施啦還有這個這條船呢他因為他是擱淺在這個我們的北海岸這附近但是這個時候因為天氣非常不好他去一條非常大的這個救難船但是我們國內目前其實並沒有這麼大型的救難船\n565819\t589598\t已經知道他會擱淺但是他還沒擱淺之前能不能趕快把他抓回來這是一個我們要討論的議題所以後面這個也是我們運安會調查的重點就是事故發生之後處理的緊急應變問題是以上好那就是今年颱風季也要到了去年每年都有颱風那就希望說大家擔心的事情我們能夠督促我們的香港局不要再讓類似的情況再次的發生再麻煩我們的運安會好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們林主委好 應安會林主委主委好這剛剛\n我剛剛聽到這個林俊憲委員的這個詢答啦那有提到說可能台鐵發生事故的時候那都會說等運安會的人來到現場所以等了一些時間其實我自己本身有這樣子的一個經驗啦在之前有一次連假的時候那也是在大概在平溪縣的時候有一個出軌啦出軌的事情那他們也是用這樣子的方式回答我說要等到運安會的人到了現場把該採集的資料採集完了之後他們的工程單位的人員才能夠去做\n後續的一個搶救跟復救的一個工作當然等我們的人來我們這個可能在上班日或者是連假的時候我們人員到達的時間總是比較沒有一定因為我們畢竟不是像他們那種大的單位隨時都有人駐守那我想確認一下我們運安會針對各項的事故那可能尤其是公路的運輸或者是鐵道運輸這個可能會比較影響到這個\n通勤 民眾通勤的一些問題我們有沒有在不同的時段要求我們的同仁抵達的一個時間的限制就自通報期\n事實上我們有24小時在值班你們都24小時值班對 我們一通報就是第一時間就同仁如果是下班時間都會馬上就會調回來所以各組也都會有都有各組24小時值班我們運安會有一個24小時值班人員這個值班人員就負責通報屬於航空的水路鐵道什麼就通報各調查組的人該回來是 所以說休息的時候就會把他們Call回來沒有錯\n包括他們休息的時候我們也都會有待命的就是說我們雖然是休息但是可能也都會有相關的一個\n待命的輪值表就是說如果說在這段休假的期間有需要的話雖然說你休假那我們會優先找誰會有這樣子的一個機制嗎有各組各組放假日長假日都有輪值表就是說你下班你雖然是譬如說前面一節假期嘛四天那你是輪到的你不准離開大台北地區你不可以到南部去有都有是嗎那有相關的要求抵達時間的一個要求嗎\n呃 最快的速度都會快最快了怎麼都是一到就包計程車就過去因為可能台鐵都會說我們的人先到了但是運航位的人還沒到我想這個這個是誤傳誤傳喔好 那沒關係我們現場調查總是要一些時間啦我想 有時候各自單位會有不同的立場啦\n指責別的單位都是最容易的啦那就是可能之後在相關的摩擦或者說在怎樣的情況下我們台鐵能夠做哪一些預制的準備動作可能在等我們運安會在調查的時候人員到達前或者是調查過程 收證的過程中我們哪一些處置桌子有時候我們也可以跟哪一些比較頻繁發生事故的單位有一些在時程上面的一些合作的模式啦希望說我們後面能夠多一些協調 少一點摩擦這樣子是 因為\n因為我們最快的時間尤其是鐵路因為他很快就要復舊要恢復他的運轉我們會最快的速度去事實上還有一個原因就是我們最快的時間去會把證據流失我們要蒐集證據我們要帶著儀器不是空手去我們要帶著儀器有的儀器是重型的有的時候是輕型的不一定要看case by case\n是好那就後續再麻煩是謝謝委員長那另外啊再看我們的這個今天的報告啊因為之前去年有一個那個入籍的船隻嘛那在野柳外海擱淺嘛那我就看了一下我們後面針對各個單位啊針對各個單位我們預案會提出的缺失未改正的一些統計表我們發現\n有些單位跟其他單位落差的還蠻大的包括航港局這個他的案件數總案件數就是自己一個人高高在上這樣子那三年以上的三年以上的雖然說案件數沒那麼高但是台鐵這個單位確實也比其他單位的數量明顯的增加了許多我不曉得我們實際上在跟這兩個單位在溝通的時候我們是提出了哪些東西讓他們好像沒有辦法達成有沒有辦法做一些減要的概述因為\n可能今年到了這個我們颱風季要如果說有任何的水域發生事故的話對我們的漁民大家都是非常擔心的啦我們也是希望說避免那看到這樣子的一個未達成缺失的一個案件統計大家真的還是會比較擔心的能不能針對這兩個單位的缺失狀況跟大家說明一下\n呃有些單位像台鐵台鐵他的被安全感他的那個項目裡面的設計台鐵的組織要調整譬如說他要安裝這個駕駛式的影音記錄器設置等等他要設計法規的修訂等等所以這些對台鐵來講就是屬於就是他幾十年來沒做突然要做他需要制度面甚至他必須要跟同仁所以跟經費有關嗎還是單純管理面的問題\n有的是經費有的是管理面有的是觀念的溝通好那可不可以會後就是針對台鐵的這五項的缺失我們三年以上的沒有改善的這五項具體的一個項目我們的可能給他們的資料也給我們也給我辦公室或者是給交委會一份這樣子沒問題那另外港港局的部分20多件\n香港局齁都是飲水人的這個安全管理的問題飲水人辦事處啊強制飲水區啊或者是這個VTS系統的整個制度內的改善等等他也是長期以來說累積出來的問題所以他需要較多時間\n所以就是長期累積的問題所以這個算是岸上管裡面的問題還是航行上面的一些管裡面的問題都有但是最主要還是在岸上這邊的問題岸上這邊的問題嗎那陸籍的船隻的這個部分我們預計五月提這個會有先會有一個中期的一個報告算是一個中期的報告嘛那年底的時候會有一個完整的報告那在這段時間那大家當然還是會擔心啦那有沒有部分的東西是可以先立即要求航港局去做改善的\n我們可以給委員一些資料就是說他有分階段分期之後我們可以把資料給委員參考就是分階段就出判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目然後中期的時候5月的這份報告也會有部分的改項目包括最後期末的時候今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改項目是這樣子分階段嗎\n都沒有說分短中長期啦但是我們調查報告過程調查過程中是就如我剛剛講他有有譬如說事實資料報告然後調查期限當前通告等等那這些過程中因為水路單位 港港局 港務公司 交通部因為每一個調查案都是屬於參與式調查他們都有派員來參與所以他們在參與的過程中就會知道他們都已經知道都會知道嘛\n所以很多調查案到我們最終調查報告出來之後然後提出安全改善建議結果他安全改善一下子就提出來因為他過程中已經開始在做了那到目前野柳的這個個案我們目前所認定可能最大的為師會是在哪一邊就是需要具體改善的項目就是我剛剛講制度沒有就飲水人的問題嘛飲水辦事處的問題等等嘛有沒有具體的就是這個制度的哪個問題\n有就是他移水瓦他要蓋嘛他修移水瓦花很多時間他已經花了一兩年的時間因為那個是一個很大的一個花有沒有辦法用比較白畫的方式就是可能他造成這次事故最主要的原因白畫一點好我請水路主調查因為他比較細好\n有關於那個是玉州啟航他從基隆港離開那個時候剛好是颱風他去避颱他到廣東附近避颱這個避颱的過程中因為外面的颱風外圍環流非常的強烈所以他沒辦法順利的到達他的目的去避航\n那這中間他就被這個強烈的風就吹到這個就是就是這個岸上擱淺那這個案子呢他最主要的事就是剛好談到他避台他如果去因為他是在這個港區裡面碰到颱風的時候我如果及時讓這條船就出去但是他之前要破有個案子他把兩個這個他把一個喬斯基給給推倒自己喬斯基也壞掉\n所以這個案子本身又要賠償 它談賠償需要時間所以這個賠償的時間 也耽擱到後面的離港時間所以是一連串的 包括在港區裡面它什麼時候要離開港區需要飲水人所以剛剛我們主委提到這個飲水人的事情\n所以就是說這是一連串的事情就在一起然後到時候他就沒辦法這個順利這個去避難所以這中間呢我們就牽涉到的是有飲水欄的啦有這個防台措施啦還有這個這條船呢他因為他是擱淺在這個我們的北海岸這附近但是這個時候因為天氣非常不好他去一條非常大的這個救難船但是我們國內目前其實並沒有這麼大型的救難船\n已經知道他會擱淺但是他還沒擱淺之前能不能趕快把他抓回來這是一個我們要討論的議題所以後面這個也是我們運安會調查的重點就是事故發生之後處理的緊急應變問題是以上好那就是今年颱風季也要到了去年每年都有颱風那就希望說大家擔心的事情我們能夠督促我們的香港局不要再讓類似的情況再次的發生再麻煩我們的運安會好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.796 --> 00:10.033\n好謝謝主席喔麻煩邀請我們林主委好應安會林主委主委好這剛剛\n\n00:12.246 --> 00:40.808\n我剛剛聽到這個林俊憲委員的這個詢答啦那有提到說可能台鐵發生事故的時候那都會說等運安會的人來到現場所以等了一些時間其實我自己本身有這樣子的一個經驗啦在之前有一次連假的時候那也是在大概在平溪縣的時候有一個出軌啦出軌的事情那他們也是用這樣子的方式回答我說要等到運安會的人到了現場把該採集的資料採集完了之後他們的工程單位的人員才能夠去做\n\n00:41.568 --> 01:03.318\n後續的一個搶救跟復救的一個工作當然等我們的人來我們這個可能在上班日或者是連假的時候我們人員到達的時間總是比較沒有一定因為我們畢竟不是像他們那種大的單位隨時都有人駐守那我想確認一下我們運安會針對各項的事故那可能尤其是公路的運輸或者是鐵道運輸這個可能會比較影響到這個\n\n01:07.220 --> 01:15.369\n通勤民眾通勤的一些問題我們有沒有在不同的時段要求我們的同仁抵達的一個時間的限制就自通報期\n\n01:17.545 --> 01:42.944\n事實上我們有24小時在值班你們都24小時值班對我們一通報就是第一時間就同仁如果是下班時間都會馬上就會調回來所以各組也都會有都有各組24小時值班我們運安會有一個24小時值班人員這個值班人員就負責通報屬於航空的水路鐵道什麼就通報各調查組的人該回來是所以說休息的時候就會把他們Call回來沒有錯\n\n01:43.985 --> 01:49.925\n包括他們休息的時候我們也都會有待命的就是說我們雖然是休息但是可能也都會有相關的一個\n\n01:50.902 --> 02:15.567\n待命的輪值表就是說如果說在這段休假的期間有需要的話雖然說你休假那我們會優先找誰會有這樣子的一個機制嗎有各組各組放假日長假日都有輪值表就是說你下班你雖然是譬如說前面一節假期嘛四天那你是輪到的你不准離開大台北地區你不可以到南部去有都有是嗎那有相關的要求抵達時間的一個要求嗎\n\n02:16.647 --> 02:33.793\n呃最快的速度都會快最快了怎麼都是一到就包計程車就過去因為可能台鐵都會說我們的人先到了但是運航位的人還沒到我想這個這個是誤傳誤傳喔好那沒關係我們現場調查總是要一些時間啦我想有時候各自單位會有不同的立場啦\n\n02:35.593 --> 03:02.901\n指責別的單位都是最容易的啦那就是可能之後在相關的摩擦或者說在怎樣的情況下我們台鐵能夠做哪一些預制的準備動作可能在等我們運安會在調查的時候人員到達前或者是調查過程收證的過程中我們哪一些處置桌子有時候我們也可以跟哪一些比較頻繁發生事故的單位有一些在時程上面的一些合作的模式啦希望說我們後面能夠多一些協調少一點摩擦這樣子是因為\n\n03:05.526 --> 03:26.629\n因為我們最快的時間尤其是鐵路因為他很快就要復舊要恢復他的運轉我們會最快的速度去事實上還有一個原因就是我們最快的時間去會把證據流失我們要蒐集證據我們要帶著儀器不是空手去我們要帶著儀器有的儀器是重型的有的時候是輕型的不一定要看casebycase\n\n03:26.769 --> 03:45.514\n是好那就後續再麻煩是謝謝委員長那另外啊再看我們的這個今天的報告啊因為之前去年有一個那個入籍的船隻嘛那在野柳外海擱淺嘛那我就看了一下我們後面針對各個單位啊針對各個單位我們預案會提出的缺失未改正的一些統計表我們發現\n\n03:47.734 --> 04:16.617\n有些單位跟其他單位落差的還蠻大的包括航港局這個他的案件數總案件數就是自己一個人高高在上這樣子那三年以上的三年以上的雖然說案件數沒那麼高但是台鐵這個單位確實也比其他單位的數量明顯的增加了許多我不曉得我們實際上在跟這兩個單位在溝通的時候我們是提出了哪些東西讓他們好像沒有辦法達成有沒有辦法做一些減要的概述因為\n\n04:17.130 --> 04:37.569\n可能今年到了這個我們颱風季要如果說有任何的水域發生事故的話對我們的漁民大家都是非常擔心的啦我們也是希望說避免那看到這樣子的一個未達成缺失的一個案件統計大家真的還是會比較擔心的能不能針對這兩個單位的缺失狀況跟大家說明一下\n\n04:40.373 --> 05:07.421\n呃有些單位像台鐵台鐵他的被安全感他的那個項目裡面的設計台鐵的組織要調整譬如說他要安裝這個駕駛式的影音記錄器設置等等他要設計法規的修訂等等所以這些對台鐵來講就是屬於就是他幾十年來沒做突然要做他需要制度面甚至他必須要跟同仁所以跟經費有關嗎還是單純管理面的問題\n\n05:08.340 --> 05:31.370\n有的是經費有的是管理面有的是觀念的溝通好那可不可以會後就是針對台鐵的這五項的缺失我們三年以上的沒有改善的這五項具體的一個項目我們的可能給他們的資料也給我們也給我辦公室或者是給交委會一份這樣子沒問題那另外港港局的部分20多件\n\n05:33.157 --> 05:48.305\n香港局齁都是飲水人的這個安全管理的問題飲水人辦事處啊強制飲水區啊或者是這個VTS系統的整個制度內的改善等等他也是長期以來說累積出來的問題所以他需要較多時間\n\n05:49.286 --> 06:18.699\n所以就是長期累積的問題所以這個算是岸上管裡面的問題還是航行上面的一些管裡面的問題都有但是最主要還是在岸上這邊的問題岸上這邊的問題嗎那陸籍的船隻的這個部分我們預計五月提這個會有先會有一個中期的一個報告算是一個中期的報告嘛那年底的時候會有一個完整的報告那在這段時間那大家當然還是會擔心啦那有沒有部分的東西是可以先立即要求航港局去做改善的\n\n06:19.982 --> 06:41.889\n我們可以給委員一些資料就是說他有分階段分期之後我們可以把資料給委員參考就是分階段就出判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目然後中期的時候5月的這份報告也會有部分的改項目包括最後期末的時候今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改項目是這樣子分階段嗎\n\n06:42.969 --> 07:08.556\n都沒有說分短中長期啦但是我們調查報告過程調查過程中是就如我剛剛講他有有譬如說事實資料報告然後調查期限當前通告等等那這些過程中因為水路單位港港局港務公司交通部因為每一個調查案都是屬於參與式調查他們都有派員來參與所以他們在參與的過程中就會知道他們都已經知道都會知道嘛\n\n07:08.956 --> 07:37.022\n所以很多調查案到我們最終調查報告出來之後然後提出安全改善建議結果他安全改善一下子就提出來因為他過程中已經開始在做了那到目前野柳的這個個案我們目前所認定可能最大的為師會是在哪一邊就是需要具體改善的項目就是我剛剛講制度沒有就飲水人的問題嘛飲水辦事處的問題等等嘛有沒有具體的就是這個制度的哪個問題\n\n07:37.884 --> 07:53.249\n有就是他移水瓦他要蓋嘛他修移水瓦花很多時間他已經花了一兩年的時間因為那個是一個很大的一個花有沒有辦法用比較白畫的方式就是可能他造成這次事故最主要的原因白畫一點好我請水路主調查因為他比較細好\n\n07:56.572 --> 08:15.695\n有關於那個是玉州啟航他從基隆港離開那個時候剛好是颱風他去避颱他到廣東附近避颱這個避颱的過程中因為外面的颱風外圍環流非常的強烈所以他沒辦法順利的到達他的目的去避航\n\n08:16.095 --> 08:41.464\n那這中間他就被這個強烈的風就吹到這個就是就是這個岸上擱淺那這個案子呢他最主要的事就是剛好談到他避台他如果去因為他是在這個港區裡面碰到颱風的時候我如果及時讓這條船就出去但是他之前要破有個案子他把兩個這個他把一個喬斯基給給推倒自己喬斯基也壞掉\n\n08:42.044 --> 08:58.884\n所以這個案子本身又要賠償它談賠償需要時間所以這個賠償的時間也耽擱到後面的離港時間所以是一連串的包括在港區裡面它什麼時候要離開港區需要飲水人所以剛剛我們主委提到這個飲水人的事情\n\n08:59.424 --> 09:24.939\n所以就是說這是一連串的事情就在一起然後到時候他就沒辦法這個順利這個去避難所以這中間呢我們就牽涉到的是有飲水欄的啦有這個防台措施啦還有這個這條船呢他因為他是擱淺在這個我們的北海岸這附近但是這個時候因為天氣非常不好他去一條非常大的這個救難船但是我們國內目前其實並沒有這麼大型的救難船\n\n09:25.819 --> 09:49.598\n已經知道他會擱淺但是他還沒擱淺之前能不能趕快把他抓回來這是一個我們要討論的議題所以後面這個也是我們運安會調查的重點就是事故發生之後處理的緊急應變問題是以上好那就是今年颱風季也要到了去年每年都有颱風那就希望說大家擔心的事情我們能夠督促我們的香港局不要再讓類似的情況再次的發生再麻煩我們的運安會好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.796,"end":10.033,"text":"好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們林主委好 應安會林主委主委好這剛剛"},{"start":12.246,"end":40.808,"text":"我剛剛聽到這個林俊憲委員的這個詢答啦那有提到說可能台鐵發生事故的時候那都會說等運安會的人來到現場所以等了一些時間其實我自己本身有這樣子的一個經驗啦在之前有一次連假的時候那也是在大概在平溪縣的時候有一個出軌啦出軌的事情那他們也是用這樣子的方式回答我說要等到運安會的人到了現場把該採集的資料採集完了之後他們的工程單位的人員才能夠去做"},{"start":41.568,"end":63.318,"text":"後續的一個搶救跟復救的一個工作當然等我們的人來我們這個可能在上班日或者是連假的時候我們人員到達的時間總是比較沒有一定因為我們畢竟不是像他們那種大的單位隨時都有人駐守那我想確認一下我們運安會針對各項的事故那可能尤其是公路的運輸或者是鐵道運輸這個可能會比較影響到這個"},{"start":67.22,"end":75.369,"text":"通勤 民眾通勤的一些問題我們有沒有在不同的時段要求我們的同仁抵達的一個時間的限制就自通報期"},{"start":77.545,"end":102.944,"text":"事實上我們有24小時在值班你們都24小時值班對 我們一通報就是第一時間就同仁如果是下班時間都會馬上就會調回來所以各組也都會有都有各組24小時值班我們運安會有一個24小時值班人員這個值班人員就負責通報屬於航空的水路鐵道什麼就通報各調查組的人該回來是 所以說休息的時候就會把他們Call回來沒有錯"},{"start":103.985,"end":109.925,"text":"包括他們休息的時候我們也都會有待命的就是說我們雖然是休息但是可能也都會有相關的一個"},{"start":110.902,"end":135.567,"text":"待命的輪值表就是說如果說在這段休假的期間有需要的話雖然說你休假那我們會優先找誰會有這樣子的一個機制嗎有各組各組放假日長假日都有輪值表就是說你下班你雖然是譬如說前面一節假期嘛四天那你是輪到的你不准離開大台北地區你不可以到南部去有都有是嗎那有相關的要求抵達時間的一個要求嗎"},{"start":136.647,"end":153.793,"text":"呃 最快的速度都會快最快了怎麼都是一到就包計程車就過去因為可能台鐵都會說我們的人先到了但是運航位的人還沒到我想這個這個是誤傳誤傳喔好 那沒關係我們現場調查總是要一些時間啦我想 有時候各自單位會有不同的立場啦"},{"start":155.593,"end":182.901,"text":"指責別的單位都是最容易的啦那就是可能之後在相關的摩擦或者說在怎樣的情況下我們台鐵能夠做哪一些預制的準備動作可能在等我們運安會在調查的時候人員到達前或者是調查過程 收證的過程中我們哪一些處置桌子有時候我們也可以跟哪一些比較頻繁發生事故的單位有一些在時程上面的一些合作的模式啦希望說我們後面能夠多一些協調 少一點摩擦這樣子是 因為"},{"start":185.526,"end":206.629,"text":"因為我們最快的時間尤其是鐵路因為他很快就要復舊要恢復他的運轉我們會最快的速度去事實上還有一個原因就是我們最快的時間去會把證據流失我們要蒐集證據我們要帶著儀器不是空手去我們要帶著儀器有的儀器是重型的有的時候是輕型的不一定要看case by case"},{"start":206.769,"end":225.514,"text":"是好那就後續再麻煩是謝謝委員長那另外啊再看我們的這個今天的報告啊因為之前去年有一個那個入籍的船隻嘛那在野柳外海擱淺嘛那我就看了一下我們後面針對各個單位啊針對各個單位我們預案會提出的缺失未改正的一些統計表我們發現"},{"start":227.734,"end":256.617,"text":"有些單位跟其他單位落差的還蠻大的包括航港局這個他的案件數總案件數就是自己一個人高高在上這樣子那三年以上的三年以上的雖然說案件數沒那麼高但是台鐵這個單位確實也比其他單位的數量明顯的增加了許多我不曉得我們實際上在跟這兩個單位在溝通的時候我們是提出了哪些東西讓他們好像沒有辦法達成有沒有辦法做一些減要的概述因為"},{"start":257.13,"end":277.569,"text":"可能今年到了這個我們颱風季要如果說有任何的水域發生事故的話對我們的漁民大家都是非常擔心的啦我們也是希望說避免那看到這樣子的一個未達成缺失的一個案件統計大家真的還是會比較擔心的能不能針對這兩個單位的缺失狀況跟大家說明一下"},{"start":280.373,"end":307.421,"text":"呃有些單位像台鐵台鐵他的被安全感他的那個項目裡面的設計台鐵的組織要調整譬如說他要安裝這個駕駛式的影音記錄器設置等等他要設計法規的修訂等等所以這些對台鐵來講就是屬於就是他幾十年來沒做突然要做他需要制度面甚至他必須要跟同仁所以跟經費有關嗎還是單純管理面的問題"},{"start":308.34,"end":331.37,"text":"有的是經費有的是管理面有的是觀念的溝通好那可不可以會後就是針對台鐵的這五項的缺失我們三年以上的沒有改善的這五項具體的一個項目我們的可能給他們的資料也給我們也給我辦公室或者是給交委會一份這樣子沒問題那另外港港局的部分20多件"},{"start":333.157,"end":348.305,"text":"香港局齁都是飲水人的這個安全管理的問題飲水人辦事處啊強制飲水區啊或者是這個VTS系統的整個制度內的改善等等他也是長期以來說累積出來的問題所以他需要較多時間"},{"start":349.286,"end":378.699,"text":"所以就是長期累積的問題所以這個算是岸上管裡面的問題還是航行上面的一些管裡面的問題都有但是最主要還是在岸上這邊的問題岸上這邊的問題嗎那陸籍的船隻的這個部分我們預計五月提這個會有先會有一個中期的一個報告算是一個中期的報告嘛那年底的時候會有一個完整的報告那在這段時間那大家當然還是會擔心啦那有沒有部分的東西是可以先立即要求航港局去做改善的"},{"start":379.982,"end":401.889,"text":"我們可以給委員一些資料就是說他有分階段分期之後我們可以把資料給委員參考就是分階段就出判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目然後中期的時候5月的這份報告也會有部分的改項目包括最後期末的時候今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改項目是這樣子分階段嗎"},{"start":402.969,"end":428.556,"text":"都沒有說分短中長期啦但是我們調查報告過程調查過程中是就如我剛剛講他有有譬如說事實資料報告然後調查期限當前通告等等那這些過程中因為水路單位 港港局 港務公司 交通部因為每一個調查案都是屬於參與式調查他們都有派員來參與所以他們在參與的過程中就會知道他們都已經知道都會知道嘛"},{"start":428.956,"end":457.022,"text":"所以很多調查案到我們最終調查報告出來之後然後提出安全改善建議結果他安全改善一下子就提出來因為他過程中已經開始在做了那到目前野柳的這個個案我們目前所認定可能最大的為師會是在哪一邊就是需要具體改善的項目就是我剛剛講制度沒有就飲水人的問題嘛飲水辦事處的問題等等嘛有沒有具體的就是這個制度的哪個問題"},{"start":457.884,"end":473.249,"text":"有就是他移水瓦他要蓋嘛他修移水瓦花很多時間他已經花了一兩年的時間因為那個是一個很大的一個花有沒有辦法用比較白畫的方式就是可能他造成這次事故最主要的原因白畫一點好我請水路主調查因為他比較細好"},{"start":476.572,"end":495.695,"text":"有關於那個是玉州啟航他從基隆港離開那個時候剛好是颱風他去避颱他到廣東附近避颱這個避颱的過程中因為外面的颱風外圍環流非常的強烈所以他沒辦法順利的到達他的目的去避航"},{"start":496.095,"end":521.464,"text":"那這中間他就被這個強烈的風就吹到這個就是就是這個岸上擱淺那這個案子呢他最主要的事就是剛好談到他避台他如果去因為他是在這個港區裡面碰到颱風的時候我如果及時讓這條船就出去但是他之前要破有個案子他把兩個這個他把一個喬斯基給給推倒自己喬斯基也壞掉"},{"start":522.044,"end":538.884,"text":"所以這個案子本身又要賠償 它談賠償需要時間所以這個賠償的時間 也耽擱到後面的離港時間所以是一連串的 包括在港區裡面它什麼時候要離開港區需要飲水人所以剛剛我們主委提到這個飲水人的事情"},{"start":539.424,"end":564.939,"text":"所以就是說這是一連串的事情就在一起然後到時候他就沒辦法這個順利這個去避難所以這中間呢我們就牽涉到的是有飲水欄的啦有這個防台措施啦還有這個這條船呢他因為他是擱淺在這個我們的北海岸這附近但是這個時候因為天氣非常不好他去一條非常大的這個救難船但是我們國內目前其實並沒有這麼大型的救難船"},{"start":565.819,"end":589.598,"text":"已經知道他會擱淺但是他還沒擱淺之前能不能趕快把他抓回來這是一個我們要討論的議題所以後面這個也是我們運安會調查的重點就是事故發生之後處理的緊急應變問題是以上好那就是今年颱風季也要到了去年每年都有颱風那就希望說大家擔心的事情我們能夠督促我們的香港局不要再讓類似的情況再次的發生再麻煩我們的運安會好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":562,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時9分）謝謝主席。麻煩邀請林主委。"],["主席：請運安會林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：主委好。我剛剛聽到林俊憲委員的詢答，有提到臺鐵發生事故的時候，都會說等運安會的人到現場，所以等了一些時間。其實我自己本身也有這樣子的經驗，之前有一次連假的時候，也是在平溪線出軌的事情，他們也是用這樣子的方式回答我，說要等到運安會的人到現場把該採集的資料採集完之後，他們的工程單位人員才能夠做後續搶救跟復舊的工作。當然等你們的人來，可能在上班日或者是連假的時候，你們人員到達的時間總是比較沒有一定，畢竟不是像他們那種大的單位隨時都有人駐守。我想確認一下運安會針對各項事故，尤其是公路運輸或者是鐵道運輸，可能比較會影響到民眾通勤的一些問題，自通報起有沒有在不同的時段要求同仁抵達的時間限制？"],["林主任委員信得：事實上我們有24小時值班。"],["廖委員先翔：你們都24小時值班？"],["林主任委員信得：對，我們一通報就是第一時間，同仁如果是下班時間就會馬上調回來。"],["廖委員先翔：所以各組也都會有？"],["林主任委員信得：都有。"],["廖委員先翔：各組24小時值班？"],["林主任委員信得：不是，我們運安會有一個24小時的值班人員，那位值班人員就負責通報屬於航空、水路、鐵道的，會通報各調查組的人該回來就回來。"],["廖委員先翔：是，所以休息的時候就會把他們call回來這樣子。"],["林主任委員信得：沒有錯。"],["廖委員先翔：包括他們休息的時候也都會有待命的，雖然是休息，但是可能也都會有相關的待命輪值表，如果在這段休假期間有需要的話，雖然在休假，你們會優先找誰，會有這樣的機制嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：有，各組放假日、長假日都有輪值表，例如雖然是清明節假期4天，但是你有輪到的，你就不准離開大臺北地區，你不可以到南部去，都有這樣的機制。"],["廖委員先翔：是嘛！"],["林主任委員信得：對。"],["廖委員先翔：有相關抵達時間的要求嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：最快的速度都會快，都是一到就包計程車過去。"],["廖委員先翔：臺鐵可能都會說他們的人先到了，但是運安會的人還沒到，我想這個……"],["林主任委員信得：這個是誤傳啦！"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，你們現場調查總是要一些時間，我想有時候各單位會有不同的立場，指責別單位都是最容易的啦，可能之後在相關的摩擦或者在怎樣的情況下，臺鐵能夠做哪一些預置的準備動作，可能在等運安會調查的時候，人員到達前或者是調查蒐證的過程中有哪些處置措施，有時候跟一些比較頻繁發生事故的單位在時程上面的合作模式，希望後面能夠多一些協調，少一點摩擦。"],["林主任委員信得：是，我們最快的時程，尤其是鐵路，因為它很快就要復舊、要恢復它的運轉嘛！我們會最快的時間去。事實上還有一個原因，如果我們不是最快的時間去，證據會流失，且我們要蒐集證據就要帶著儀器，也不是空手去，我們要帶著儀器，有的儀器是重型的，有的時候是輕型，不一定，要看case，case 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case。"],["廖委員先翔：那就後續再麻煩。"],["林主任委員信得：是，謝謝委員。"],["廖委員先翔：另外，再看今天的報告，去年有一艘陸籍船隻在野柳外海擱淺，我就看了一下後面針對各個單位，運安會提出的缺失未改正的一些統計表，我們發現有些單位跟其他單位落差還滿大的，包括航港局的總案件數就是自己一個人高高在上，3年以上的雖然說案件數沒那麼高，但是臺鐵這個單位確實也比其他單位的數量明顯增加了許多。我不曉得你們實際上在跟這兩個單位溝通的時候，你們是提出了哪些東西讓他們好像沒有辦法達成，有沒有辦法做一些簡要概述？今年到了颱風季，如果有任何水域發生事故，我們的漁民都非常擔心，我們也希望避免看到這樣子未達成缺失案件統計。大家真的還是會比較擔心，你能不能針對這兩個單位的缺失狀況跟大家說明一下？"],["林主任委員信得：有些單位像臺鐵，臺鐵的改善項目裡面涉及臺鐵的組織要調整，譬如說他要安裝、設置駕駛室的影音紀錄器涉及法規的修訂等等，這些對臺鐵來講，就是屬於幾十年來沒做，突然要做，是制度面，甚至必須要跟同仁、工會溝通。"],["廖委員先翔：所以跟經費有關嗎？還是單純管理面的問題？"],["林主任委員信得：有的是經費、有的是管理面、有的是觀念的溝通，都有。"],["廖委員先翔：好，會後可不可以針對臺鐵3年以上沒有改善的這五項具體項目，你們給他們的資料，也給我辦公室或者是給交委會一份？"],["林主任委員信得：沒問題。"],["廖委員先翔：另外，航港局的部分呢？二十多件。"],["林主任委員信得：航港局都是引水人的安全管理問題，引水人辦事處、強制引水區或者是VTS系統等制度面的改善等等，也是長期以來累積出來的問題，所以需要較多時間。"],["廖委員先翔：所以就是長期累積的問題，這算是岸上管理面的問題，還是航行管理面的問題？"],["林主任委員信得：都有，但是最主要還是岸上的問題。"],["廖委員先翔：岸上這邊的問題嘛！"],["林主任委員信得：對，都有。"],["廖委員先翔：陸籍船隻的部分，我們預計5月會先有一個中期報告，年底的時候會有一個完整報告，這段時間大家當然還是會擔心，有沒有部分的內容是可以先立即要求航港局改善的？"],["林主任委員信得：我們可以會後給委員一些資料，說他有分階段、分期做，我們可以把資料給委員參考。"],["廖委員先翔：就是分階段，初判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目，然後中期的時候，5月的這份報告也會有部分的改善項目，包括最後期末的時候，今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改善項目，是這樣子分階段嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：倒沒有分短、中、長期，但是我們調查的過程中，就如同我剛剛講，譬如說事實資料報告，然後調查期間安全通告等等，這些過程中水路單位，包括航港局、港務公司、交通部，因為每一個調查案都是屬於參與式調查，他們都有派員參與。"],["廖委員先翔：所以他們在參與的過程中就會知道？"],["林主任委員信得：他們都已經知道。"],["廖委員先翔：都會知道嘛！"],["林主任委員信得：很多調查案到我們最終調查報告出來之後提出安全改善建議，結果安全改善他一下子就提出來，因為過程中他已經開始在做了。"],["廖委員先翔：目前野柳的這個個案認定可能最大的違失會是在哪一邊？就是需要具體改善的項目。"],["林主任委員信得：就是我剛剛講制度面嘛！就是引水員的問題、引水辦事處的問題等等。"],["廖委員先翔：有沒有具體制度的哪個問題？"],["林主任委員信得：有，就是引水法要改，修引水法花很多時間，已經花了一、兩年的時間，因為那個是一個很大的法規。"],["廖委員先翔：有沒有辦法用比較白話的方式？就是可能造成這一次事故最主要的原因，白話一點。"],["林主任委員信得：好，我請水路調查組來講，因為它比較細。"],["廖委員先翔：好。"],["蘇組長水灶：委員好。有關於這個部分主要是鈺州啟航，它從基隆港離開，那個時候剛好是颱風，它要到廣東附近避颱，在避颱的過程中，因為颱風外圍環流非常強烈，所以它沒辦法順利到達目的地去避颱，這中間就被強烈的風吹到岸上擱淺。這個案子最主要就是它要避颱，它在港區裡面碰到颱風來的時候，我如何及時讓這條船出去，但是它之前又有一個案子，它把一個橋式機給推倒，自己橋式機也壞掉。"],["廖委員先翔：對。"],["蘇組長水灶：所以這個案子本身又要賠償，但談賠償需要時間，這個賠償的時間耽擱到後面的離港時間，所以是一連串的，包括在港區裡面什麼時候要離開港區需要引水人，就是剛剛我們主委提到引水人的事情，所以這是一連串的事情糾在一起，最後它就沒辦法順利避颱，所以這中間牽涉到的有引水人的、有防颱措施。還有這條船是擱淺在我們的北海岸附近，這個時候因為天氣非常不好，它需要一條非常大的救難船，但是我們國內目前其實並沒有這麼大型的救難船，已經知道它會擱淺，它還沒擱淺之前，能不能趕快把它抓回來，這是一個我們要討論的議題。"],["廖委員先翔：所以後面這個也是我們運安會調查的重點……"],["蘇組長水灶：對，也是我們調查重點。"],["廖委員先翔：就是事故發生之後處理的緊急應變問題。"],["蘇組長水灶：是，以上。"],["廖委員先翔：好，今年颱風季也要到了，每年都會有颱風，就大家擔心的事情，希望你們能夠督促航港局，不要再讓類似的情況再次發生，再麻煩運安會，謝謝。"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔委員。","現在請蔡其昌副院長質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":470,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-7","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","魯明哲","陳素月","何欣純","許智傑","林俊憲","徐富癸","廖先翔","蔡其昌","游顥","邱若華","黃健豪","葉元之","張啓楷"],"page_start":421,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143901_00013"}}}