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\"start\": 71.09, \"end\": 71.771, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 71.771, \"end\": 72.473, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 72.473, \"end\": 72.933, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 72.933, \"end\": 73.454, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 73.454, \"end\": 74.275, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 74.275, \"end\": 75.076, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 75.076, \"end\": 75.096, \"score\": 0.943}]}, {\"start\": 76.238, \"end\": 101.12, \"text\": \"周邊化設空品維護區的必要性效益這些的這個研議的部分那另外也針對水錯辦法的修正來請貴部輔導醫院落實污水的處理那我們也當場看到其實長庚體系或長庚林口醫學中心這方面是做了非常的進步那也得到部長很多的這些除了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"周\", \"start\": 76.238, \"end\": 76.839, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 76.839, \"end\": 77.659, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", 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\"的\", \"start\": 99.518, \"end\": 99.899, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 99.899, \"end\": 100.9, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 100.9, \"end\": 101.1, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 101.1, \"end\": 101.12, \"score\": 0.071}]}, {\"start\": 102.882, \"end\": 117.703, \"text\": \"當場給予一些建議以外那也知道未來如何能夠協助其他的醫療機構也有類似的改善的措施那這部分因為當天比較匆忙那今天部長還有時間可以再做一點相關的補充嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"予\", \"start\": 102.882, \"end\": 103.022, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 103.022, \"end\": 103.182, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 103.182, \"end\": 103.382, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 103.382, \"end\": 103.683, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 103.683, \"end\": 103.823, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 103.823, \"end\": 104.164, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 104.164, 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--> 00:01:15,096\n藉由ESCO的這個等等措施來有效落實節能減碳跟環境永續的目標那第二部分就是要麻煩環境部來精進醫院室內空氣品質的標準來研議醫院\n\n5\n00:01:16,238 --> 00:01:41,120\n周邊化設空品維護區的必要性效益這些的這個研議的部分那另外也針對水錯辦法的修正來請貴部輔導醫院落實污水的處理那我們也當場看到其實長庚體系或長庚林口醫學中心這方面是做了非常的進步那也得到部長很多的這些除了\n\n6\n00:01:42,882 --> 00:01:57,703\n當場給予一些建議以外那也知道未來如何能夠協助其他的醫療機構也有類似的改善的措施那這部分因為當天比較匆忙那今天部長還有時間可以再做一點相關的補充嗎\n\n7\n00:01:59,926 --> 00:02:16,584\n結報委員那個我必須說很多的公立醫院相對的誘因沒有像長庚體系這麼的好所以說真的我們也我也鼓勵說長庚醫院是不是他們的行政的可不可以幫很多的其他醫院但是也跟委員報告其實很多的公立醫院他們其實\n\n8\n00:02:17,645 --> 00:02:39,407\n很多沒有那麼的積極啦有些部門很積極有些沒有那麼積極我們現在正在想辦法是不是有沒有一些好的方法讓公立醫院部立醫院可能都要積極的做我現在從這個長庚醫院來看的話民間的醫院的量能還有他的動機跟企圖形式真的比公家部門來得積極的這個是我們公部門要檢討的\n\n9\n00:02:40,461 --> 00:03:01,297\n好我想大家要共同努力一起來求進步那針對今天的這個討論的主題也要麻煩勞動部跟那個教育部的代表恭喜林玉堂副署長即將升任署長那另外我們也麻煩那個教育部資格室跟國教署的兩位專門委員\n\n10\n00:03:02,758 --> 00:03:31,898\n包括廖雙慶跟薛承佑專委一起來討論一下從下一張的幻燈片我們發現不管是在工廠工作的場域或者是教育的場域其實不管是周邊的空氣品質或者是室內品質真的還是有很多值得我們持續來求精進的地方這張幻燈片我們可以看得到在工作場域\n\n11\n00:03:32,858 --> 00:04:00,623\n目前的數據好像違規到這個有關於工作環境監測實質辦法第七條第一款規定的非常的少這個跟印象的落差其實蠻大的因為我們了解像我們現在四年的CO2是648原則上是不希望超過1000所以現在是很恢復規定可是我們不知道為什麼目前可以去查得到的這些違反的場次\n\n12\n00:04:01,503 --> 00:04:18,691\n就以工作的這個場域為主來看的話每六個月應該監測二氧化碳濃度一次以上可是這個量似乎跟我們所理解的真的是有很大的落差這個對於這個保障工作場域的勞工的健康其實是有一些影響\n\n13\n00:04:19,639 --> 00:04:45,429\n那這部分不知道未來勞動部指南署這邊有沒有更好的方式去架設一個平台讓大家符合規範符合要求的這些廠家能夠據實的來呈報他們監測的成果這部分不知道目前的執行狀況如何是跟委員報告在委員秀這張投影片它基本上是依據職業安全服務法\n\n14\n00:04:46,226 --> 00:05:05,242\n那他的部分的話他這個剛剛提到這個這個違規的事項基本上他是來自於一般辦公場所裡面的這個設有空調中央空調裡面的這個二氧化碳的一個剛剛委員提到六個月要測一次那這個違反事項就是我們去勞檢的時候發現\n\n15\n00:05:07,750 --> 00:05:23,657\n這個僱主沒有每六個月測一次是這個部分那至於這個實務上測的結果大概都是維持在700到800之間並不會一般辦公場所如果他沒有使用到其他的化學物質基本上都是在1000以下\n\n16\n00:05:25,157 --> 00:05:47,619\n所以能不能請他們能夠主動的把這些監測到的相關的數值通報到你們的單位或者是相關的單位一起來掌握到他們是不是有除了有一些違規的內涵以外那實際上到底他的這些空氣品質在室內是如何有辦法維持的\n\n17\n00:05:48,340 --> 00:06:14,341\n至少是要合乎到規定那除了二氧化碳以外其實像鉛、丙酮、甲烷那些更對勞工或者是影響更明顯的這個當然他需要長期監測才有辦法知道對於勞工的這個健康的影響那這部分如果能夠有一個主動通報的機制我們建立大數據的話將來處理起來也更能夠發揮它的效果這部分將來是不是有機會請這個\n\n18\n00:06:16,303 --> 00:06:26,379\n勞動部跟環境部共同來研擬看看這樣的平台的設置那如果這個平台的話未來我們是不是能夠也把這個訊息揭露給公眾能夠做具體的參考\n\n19\n00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:54,224\n報告委員因為過去是例如說早一天去做檢測那當然那個就要花一整天的時間那未來現在的像我們現在這個會議是這樣的數據其實如果經過環境部認可之後有可能就像委員這樣的數字能夠出來讓大家及時的知道但是這個我們會再研究一下如果準確性還有他的網路上可以弄得到的話我們很樂觀其成有這樣的方式來推動\n\n20\n00:06:55,918 --> 00:07:20,516\n好那就麻煩兩個單位來演繹看看好那再過來就是要有關這個校園周邊的部分我們也知道校園周邊空屋的管制很需要也很重要因為這牽扯到學童的健康還有他未來的成長那我們也知道全國172間的學校跟違規工廠相距其實不到500公尺這個是真的很希望能夠有效去改善那再參考\n\n21\n00:07:22,018 --> 00:07:41,438\n尤其是這個歐洲國家他們針對於局部地區尤其在學校附近都很好的一些方式在處理法國荷蘭英國等等他們希望能夠提供及時的空瓶的這些建設那如果是像瑞典的話他們還希望能夠有一個培訓的\n\n22\n00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:59,575\n一些作為那還有部分的北歐國家設立綠色學校帶來包括植栽隔離測量線數進行等那這個部分不知道教育部相關單位有沒有一些機制正在做這方面的精進\n\n23\n00:08:00,656 --> 00:08:24,063\n跟委員報告一下就是我們教育部就是我們會跟環境部來做密切的合作但我們現在就是依據環境部他的空氣室內空氣污染的一個指引的一個做法在我們第一個首先會非常重視那個源頭管理等到源頭管理的話就是源頭管制就是跟環境部就是說能夠請環境部能夠跟地方要求說\n\n24\n00:08:25,383 --> 00:08:51,692\n加強了稽查是不是有空污的一些污染源那把這部分給做好管制那第二個部分就是我們有一個新風換氣系統新風換氣系統這邊國教所也可以來補充一下就是部理會來針對這些學校來做相關的一些是不是評估之後是不是需要來裝設這些新風換氣系統來保障學童的一個呼吸權這樣子\n\n25\n00:08:55,734 --> 00:09:19,147\n那因為那個是室內嘛那這個如果室外的空氣比如說前幾天其實這個空汙影響非常嚴重那學校有沒有辦法及時知道這些空氣品質在這個授課教學過程當中就能夠及時的去幫助學校或者是引導學生做哪一些環境上的適應我們也知道比如說現在台灣夏天非常熱\n\n26\n00:09:20,508 --> 00:09:37,629\n所以呢為了怕這個高溫引起重休課或等等的措施就會有一些警示存在所以這部分學校有沒有機會跟環境部這邊有一個共同的方式來處理這個我們跟環境部有那個有一個受體\n\n27\n00:09:39,030 --> 00:09:56,165\n檢測的一個系統它是每小時會更新只要我們部裡跟地方政府的教育局也都在這個群組裡面如果說突然有一些空氣惡化的一個狀況的話我們也會及時的通報地方教育局地方教育局他會透過校安系統來跟學校\n\n28\n00:09:57,387 --> 00:10:19,529\n對即時來通知他們比如說要採取相關的一些因應防護作為比如說門窗緊閉或是相關的一些比如說怎麼樣學童在回去的時候可能比如說戴口罩來保護他自己的一個身體健康這部分我們都有去提醒學校那相關的SOP我們部裡也有訂相關的一個規定來保障這些學生\n\n29\n00:10:20,650 --> 00:10:40,450\n好謝謝謝謝大家的用心不過這個我會來精進一下因為這個的確我們台灣還有進步的空間啦那我們會跟教育部一起來再來合作再來提出一個新的對策OKOK好謝謝那就幫部長還有教育部這邊那另外最後一個相關的環境部如果能夠有效的引導企業資源\n\n30\n00:10:41,912 --> 00:10:57,869\n來落實這個永續經營的永續發展的部分我們也知道不管是過去的這個CSRESG到未來的SDG大型企業跟上市會公司其實都希望能夠對社會有更多的這些協助\n\n31\n00:10:59,190 --> 00:11:18,843\n那這一部分這邊幾個例子我想部長也應該清楚就是有關的海委會針對這些需求他們成立了一個海洋保育ESG的媒合平台那在這個平台裡面呢企業端就可以從很多個這個海洋保育媒合項目裡面找到適合的合作機會\n\n32\n00:11:19,864 --> 00:11:35,734\n然後民間團體還有地方政府就可以把這些他們的需求提到相關的企業讓他們去尋求合作和伴那這是才今年在二月初的時候成立的那現在是四月嘛那經過這些努力\n\n33\n00:11:36,474 --> 00:11:57,934\n他們就發現從原來大家很喜歡做淨灘的活動開始改變他們如何處理這些海廢物的這些可能造成的影響那這個平台兩個多月以來其實已經初步每合21個團體28個案正在做執行或者是已經完成了企劃\n\n34\n00:11:58,835 --> 00:12:22,227\n那相信這個對於證交所所屬的公司的治理評鑑來講他們就找到一個很好的接入口能夠讓剛剛講的大型企業或者是相關的這些資源可以投入到這邊來所以他們一定海洋淨好生物保育棲地守護海洋素養等等的跟海洋相關的這些內容都可以處理進來\n\n35\n00:12:23,388 --> 00:12:40,715\n我想這是一個很好的一個模式那可是環境部所張力的更多不管是空氣啦廢水啊或者是等等的廢毒等等那這部分不知道部長你有沒有這方面的一些企劃或者是想法\n\n36\n00:12:42,065 --> 00:13:03,215\n因為環境部過去環保署通常我們是一個管制單位所以其實都跟會有點緊張的關係就是說我們要罰人家處罰人家制定標準那我們最近其實改變幅度蠻大的例如說我們在其實他這個業局是創造一個平台媒合的平台那我們是實際上去做例如說重規司他就淨零綠生活\n\n37\n00:13:03,715 --> 00:13:20,587\n十一住行娛樂那種大聯盟已經把企業都全部扣進去已經有140幾家企業那氣候署也有我們每個私署如果跟產業有溝通的就想要公私協力一起來完成某一些事就是說把公部門的預算槓桿到民間一起來參與所以其實我們也有做但是他們是\n\n38\n00:13:21,187 --> 00:13:35,007\n支援一個平台來媒合撮合我們就直接去做一些事情公司協力來完成政府的禁令所以一點點不一樣我是覺得等到過一段時間成果之後再跟委員報告哪一個效果好如果他們這個好的話我們也願意來學習啦\n\n39\n00:13:36,087 --> 00:13:54,084\n好啊非常期待因為我們上次也去看過紀錄片種土也感受到臺灣真的很需要大家共同來守護我們的有了健康的國土就有健康的國民當然就會有健康的臺灣大家一起努力謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝王振旭\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7646\t9779\t謝謝主席我們還是麻煩本部長\n15565\t38685\t謝謝你剛剛花很多時間讓大家知道目前針對環境部正在執行一些業務尤其是對於今天的主題在空屋方面還有在室內品質的方面做了哪一些的努力所以就實務上等一下來跟您請教那第二個題目就是相關於如何能夠研議引導企業資源有效落實到ESG的這個模式\n40927\t59834\t我想很謝謝部長在上個月底也麻煩您到長庚醫院去考察具體的成果我們可以看到就是持續要麻煩環境部、衛福部跟經濟部等能夠持續精進醫院的節能減碳的政策來協助醫院\n60374\t75096\t藉由ESCO的這個等等措施來有效落實節能減碳跟環境永續的目標那第二部分就是要麻煩環境部來精進醫院室內空氣品質的標準來研議醫院\n76238\t101120\t周邊化設空品維護區的必要性效益這些的這個研議的部分那另外也針對水錯辦法的修正來請貴部輔導醫院落實污水的處理那我們也當場看到其實長庚體系或長庚林口醫學中心這方面是做了非常的進步那也得到部長很多的這些除了\n102882\t117703\t當場給予一些建議以外那也知道未來如何能夠協助其他的醫療機構也有類似的改善的措施那這部分因為當天比較匆忙那今天部長還有時間可以再做一點相關的補充嗎\n119926\t136584\t結報委員那個我必須說很多的公立醫院相對的誘因沒有像長庚體系這麼的好所以說真的我們也我也鼓勵說長庚醫院是不是他們的行政的可不可以幫很多的其他醫院但是也跟委員報告其實很多的公立醫院他們其實\n137645\t159407\t很多沒有那麼的積極啦有些部門很積極有些沒有那麼積極我們現在正在想辦法是不是有沒有一些好的方法讓公立醫院部立醫院可能都要積極的做我現在從這個長庚醫院來看的話民間的醫院的量能還有他的動機跟企圖形式真的比公家部門來得積極的這個是我們公部門要檢討的\n160461\t181297\t好我想大家要共同努力一起來求進步那針對今天的這個討論的主題也要麻煩勞動部跟那個教育部的代表恭喜林玉堂副署長即將升任署長那另外我們也麻煩那個教育部資格室跟國教署的兩位專門委員\n182758\t211898\t包括廖雙慶跟薛承佑專委一起來討論一下從下一張的幻燈片我們發現不管是在工廠工作的場域或者是教育的場域其實不管是周邊的空氣品質或者是室內品質真的還是有很多值得我們持續來求精進的地方這張幻燈片我們可以看得到在工作場域\n212858\t240623\t目前的數據好像違規到這個有關於工作環境監測實質辦法第七條第一款規定的非常的少這個跟印象的落差其實蠻大的因為我們了解像我們現在四年的CO2是648原則上是不希望超過1000所以現在是很恢復規定可是我們不知道為什麼目前可以去查得到的這些違反的場次\n241503\t258691\t就以工作的這個場域為主來看的話每六個月應該監測二氧化碳濃度一次以上可是這個量似乎跟我們所理解的真的是有很大的落差這個對於這個保障工作場域的勞工的健康其實是有一些影響\n259639\t285429\t那這部分不知道未來勞動部指南署這邊有沒有更好的方式去架設一個平台讓大家符合規範符合要求的這些廠家能夠據實的來呈報他們監測的成果這部分不知道目前的執行狀況如何是 跟委員報告在委員秀這張投影片它基本上是依據職業安全服務法\n286226\t305242\t那他的部分的話他這個剛剛提到這個這個違規的事項基本上他是來自於一般辦公場所裡面的這個設有空調中央空調裡面的這個二氧化碳的一個剛剛委員提到六個月要測一次那這個違反事項就是我們去勞檢的時候發現\n307750\t323657\t這個僱主沒有每六個月測一次是這個部分那至於這個實務上測的結果大概都是維持在700到800之間並不會一般辦公場所如果他沒有使用到其他的化學物質基本上都是在1000以下\n325157\t347619\t所以能不能請他們能夠主動的把這些監測到的相關的數值通報到你們的單位或者是相關的單位一起來掌握到他們是不是有除了有一些違規的內涵以外那實際上到底他的這些空氣品質在室內是如何有辦法維持的\n348340\t374341\t至少是要合乎到規定那除了二氧化碳以外其實像鉛、丙酮、甲烷那些更對勞工或者是影響更明顯的這個當然他需要長期監測才有辦法知道對於勞工的這個健康的影響那這部分如果能夠有一個主動通報的機制我們建立大數據的話將來處理起來也更能夠發揮它的效果這部分將來是不是有機會請這個\n376303\t386379\t勞動部跟環境部共同來研擬看看這樣的平台的設置那如果這個平台的話未來我們是不是能夠也把這個訊息揭露給公眾能夠做具體的參考\n388972\t414224\t報告委員因為過去是例如說早一天去做檢測那當然那個就要花一整天的時間那未來現在的像我們現在這個會議是這樣的數據其實如果經過環境部認可之後有可能就像委員這樣的數字能夠出來讓大家及時的知道但是這個我們會再研究一下如果準確性還有他的網路上可以弄得到的話我們很樂觀其成有這樣的方式來推動\n415918\t440516\t好那就麻煩兩個單位來演繹看看好那再過來就是要有關這個校園周邊的部分我們也知道校園周邊空屋的管制很需要也很重要因為這牽扯到學童的健康還有他未來的成長那我們也知道全國172間的學校跟違規工廠相距其實不到500公尺這個是真的很希望能夠有效去改善那再參考\n442018\t461438\t尤其是這個歐洲國家他們針對於局部地區尤其在學校附近都很好的一些方式在處理法國荷蘭英國等等他們希望能夠提供及時的空瓶的這些建設那如果是像瑞典的話他們還希望能夠有一個培訓的\n462700\t479575\t一些作為那還有部分的北歐國家設立綠色學校帶來包括植栽隔離測量線數進行等那這個部分不知道教育部相關單位有沒有一些機制正在做這方面的精進\n480656\t504063\t跟委員報告一下就是我們教育部就是我們會跟環境部來做密切的合作但我們現在就是依據環境部他的空氣室內空氣污染的一個指引的一個做法在我們第一個首先會非常重視那個源頭管理等到源頭管理的話就是源頭管制就是跟環境部就是說能夠請環境部能夠跟地方要求說\n505383\t531692\t加強了稽查是不是有空污的一些污染源那把這部分給做好管制那第二個部分就是我們有一個新風換氣系統新風換氣系統這邊國教所也可以來補充一下就是部理會來針對這些學校來做相關的一些是不是評估之後是不是需要來裝設這些新風換氣系統來保障學童的一個呼吸權這樣子\n535734\t559147\t那因為那個是室內嘛那這個如果室外的空氣比如說前幾天其實這個空汙影響非常嚴重那學校有沒有辦法及時知道這些空氣品質在這個授課教學過程當中就能夠及時的去幫助學校或者是引導學生做哪一些環境上的適應我們也知道比如說現在台灣夏天非常熱\n560508\t577629\t所以呢為了怕這個高溫引起重休課或等等的措施就會有一些警示存在所以這部分學校有沒有機會跟環境部這邊有一個共同的方式來處理這個我們跟環境部有那個有一個受體\n579030\t596165\t檢測的一個系統它是每小時會更新只要我們部裡跟地方政府的教育局也都在這個群組裡面如果說突然有一些空氣惡化的一個狀況的話我們也會及時的通報地方教育局地方教育局他會透過校安系統來跟學校\n597387\t619529\t對即時來通知他們比如說要採取相關的一些因應防護作為比如說門窗緊閉或是相關的一些比如說怎麼樣學童在回去的時候可能比如說戴口罩來保護他自己的一個身體健康這部分我們都有去提醒學校那相關的SOP我們部裡也有訂相關的一個規定來保障這些學生\n620650\t640450\t好 謝謝 謝謝大家的用心不過這個我會來精進一下因為這個的確我們台灣還有進步的空間啦那我們會跟教育部一起來再來合作再來提出一個新的對策OK OK 好 謝謝那就幫部長還有教育部這邊那另外最後一個相關的環境部如果能夠有效的引導企業資源\n641912\t657869\t來落實這個永續經營的永續發展的部分我們也知道不管是過去的這個CSR ESG到未來的SDG大型企業跟上市會公司其實都希望能夠對社會有更多的這些協助\n659190\t678843\t那這一部分這邊幾個例子我想部長也應該清楚就是有關的海委會針對這些需求他們成立了一個海洋保育ESG的媒合平台那在這個平台裡面呢企業端就可以從很多個這個海洋保育媒合項目裡面找到適合的合作機會\n679864\t695734\t然後民間團體還有地方政府就可以把這些他們的需求提到相關的企業讓他們去尋求合作和伴那這是才今年在二月初的時候成立的那現在是四月嘛那經過這些努力\n696474\t717934\t他們就發現從原來大家很喜歡做淨灘的活動開始改變他們如何處理這些海廢物的這些可能造成的影響那這個平台兩個多月以來其實已經初步每合21個團體28個案正在做執行或者是已經完成了企劃\n718835\t742227\t那相信這個對於證交所所屬的公司的治理評鑑來講他們就找到一個很好的接入口能夠讓剛剛講的大型企業或者是相關的這些資源可以投入到這邊來所以他們一定海洋淨好生物保育棲地守護海洋素養等等的跟海洋相關的這些內容都可以處理進來\n743388\t760715\t我想這是一個很好的一個模式那可是環境部所張力的更多不管是空氣啦廢水啊或者是等等的廢毒等等那這部分不知道部長你有沒有這方面的一些企劃或者是想法\n762065\t783215\t因為環境部過去環保署通常我們是一個管制單位所以其實都跟會有點緊張的關係就是說我們要罰人家處罰人家制定標準那我們最近其實改變幅度蠻大的例如說我們在其實他這個業局是創造一個平台媒合的平台那我們是實際上去做例如說重規司他就淨零綠生活\n783715\t800587\t十一住行娛樂那種大聯盟已經把企業都全部扣進去已經有140幾家企業那氣候署也有我們每個私署如果跟產業有溝通的就想要公私協力一起來完成某一些事就是說把公部門的預算槓桿到民間一起來參與所以其實我們也有做但是他們是\n801187\t815007\t支援一個平台來媒合撮合我們就直接去做一些事情公司協力來完成政府的禁令所以一點點不一樣我是覺得等到過一段時間成果之後再跟委員報告哪一個效果好如果他們這個好的話我們也願意來學習啦\n816087\t834084\t好啊非常期待因為我們上次也去看過紀錄片種土也感受到臺灣真的很需要大家共同來守護我們的有了健康的國土就有健康的國民當然就會有健康的臺灣大家一起努力謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝王振旭\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們還是麻煩本部長\n謝謝你剛剛花很多時間讓大家知道目前針對環境部正在執行一些業務尤其是對於今天的主題在空屋方面還有在室內品質的方面做了哪一些的努力所以就實務上等一下來跟您請教那第二個題目就是相關於如何能夠研議引導企業資源有效落實到ESG的這個模式\n我想很謝謝部長在上個月底也麻煩您到長庚醫院去考察具體的成果我們可以看到就是持續要麻煩環境部、衛福部跟經濟部等能夠持續精進醫院的節能減碳的政策來協助醫院\n藉由ESCO的這個等等措施來有效落實節能減碳跟環境永續的目標那第二部分就是要麻煩環境部來精進醫院室內空氣品質的標準來研議醫院\n周邊化設空品維護區的必要性效益這些的這個研議的部分那另外也針對水錯辦法的修正來請貴部輔導醫院落實污水的處理那我們也當場看到其實長庚體系或長庚林口醫學中心這方面是做了非常的進步那也得到部長很多的這些除了\n當場給予一些建議以外那也知道未來如何能夠協助其他的醫療機構也有類似的改善的措施那這部分因為當天比較匆忙那今天部長還有時間可以再做一點相關的補充嗎\n結報委員那個我必須說很多的公立醫院相對的誘因沒有像長庚體系這麼的好所以說真的我們也我也鼓勵說長庚醫院是不是他們的行政的可不可以幫很多的其他醫院但是也跟委員報告其實很多的公立醫院他們其實\n很多沒有那麼的積極啦有些部門很積極有些沒有那麼積極我們現在正在想辦法是不是有沒有一些好的方法讓公立醫院部立醫院可能都要積極的做我現在從這個長庚醫院來看的話民間的醫院的量能還有他的動機跟企圖形式真的比公家部門來得積極的這個是我們公部門要檢討的\n好我想大家要共同努力一起來求進步那針對今天的這個討論的主題也要麻煩勞動部跟那個教育部的代表恭喜林玉堂副署長即將升任署長那另外我們也麻煩那個教育部資格室跟國教署的兩位專門委員\n包括廖雙慶跟薛承佑專委一起來討論一下從下一張的幻燈片我們發現不管是在工廠工作的場域或者是教育的場域其實不管是周邊的空氣品質或者是室內品質真的還是有很多值得我們持續來求精進的地方這張幻燈片我們可以看得到在工作場域\n目前的數據好像違規到這個有關於工作環境監測實質辦法第七條第一款規定的非常的少這個跟印象的落差其實蠻大的因為我們了解像我們現在四年的CO2是648原則上是不希望超過1000所以現在是很恢復規定可是我們不知道為什麼目前可以去查得到的這些違反的場次\n就以工作的這個場域為主來看的話每六個月應該監測二氧化碳濃度一次以上可是這個量似乎跟我們所理解的真的是有很大的落差這個對於這個保障工作場域的勞工的健康其實是有一些影響\n那這部分不知道未來勞動部指南署這邊有沒有更好的方式去架設一個平台讓大家符合規範符合要求的這些廠家能夠據實的來呈報他們監測的成果這部分不知道目前的執行狀況如何是 跟委員報告在委員秀這張投影片它基本上是依據職業安全服務法\n那他的部分的話他這個剛剛提到這個這個違規的事項基本上他是來自於一般辦公場所裡面的這個設有空調中央空調裡面的這個二氧化碳的一個剛剛委員提到六個月要測一次那這個違反事項就是我們去勞檢的時候發現\n這個僱主沒有每六個月測一次是這個部分那至於這個實務上測的結果大概都是維持在700到800之間並不會一般辦公場所如果他沒有使用到其他的化學物質基本上都是在1000以下\n所以能不能請他們能夠主動的把這些監測到的相關的數值通報到你們的單位或者是相關的單位一起來掌握到他們是不是有除了有一些違規的內涵以外那實際上到底他的這些空氣品質在室內是如何有辦法維持的\n至少是要合乎到規定那除了二氧化碳以外其實像鉛、丙酮、甲烷那些更對勞工或者是影響更明顯的這個當然他需要長期監測才有辦法知道對於勞工的這個健康的影響那這部分如果能夠有一個主動通報的機制我們建立大數據的話將來處理起來也更能夠發揮它的效果這部分將來是不是有機會請這個\n勞動部跟環境部共同來研擬看看這樣的平台的設置那如果這個平台的話未來我們是不是能夠也把這個訊息揭露給公眾能夠做具體的參考\n報告委員因為過去是例如說早一天去做檢測那當然那個就要花一整天的時間那未來現在的像我們現在這個會議是這樣的數據其實如果經過環境部認可之後有可能就像委員這樣的數字能夠出來讓大家及時的知道但是這個我們會再研究一下如果準確性還有他的網路上可以弄得到的話我們很樂觀其成有這樣的方式來推動\n好那就麻煩兩個單位來演繹看看好那再過來就是要有關這個校園周邊的部分我們也知道校園周邊空屋的管制很需要也很重要因為這牽扯到學童的健康還有他未來的成長那我們也知道全國172間的學校跟違規工廠相距其實不到500公尺這個是真的很希望能夠有效去改善那再參考\n尤其是這個歐洲國家他們針對於局部地區尤其在學校附近都很好的一些方式在處理法國荷蘭英國等等他們希望能夠提供及時的空瓶的這些建設那如果是像瑞典的話他們還希望能夠有一個培訓的\n一些作為那還有部分的北歐國家設立綠色學校帶來包括植栽隔離測量線數進行等那這個部分不知道教育部相關單位有沒有一些機制正在做這方面的精進\n跟委員報告一下就是我們教育部就是我們會跟環境部來做密切的合作但我們現在就是依據環境部他的空氣室內空氣污染的一個指引的一個做法在我們第一個首先會非常重視那個源頭管理等到源頭管理的話就是源頭管制就是跟環境部就是說能夠請環境部能夠跟地方要求說\n加強了稽查是不是有空污的一些污染源那把這部分給做好管制那第二個部分就是我們有一個新風換氣系統新風換氣系統這邊國教所也可以來補充一下就是部理會來針對這些學校來做相關的一些是不是評估之後是不是需要來裝設這些新風換氣系統來保障學童的一個呼吸權這樣子\n那因為那個是室內嘛那這個如果室外的空氣比如說前幾天其實這個空汙影響非常嚴重那學校有沒有辦法及時知道這些空氣品質在這個授課教學過程當中就能夠及時的去幫助學校或者是引導學生做哪一些環境上的適應我們也知道比如說現在台灣夏天非常熱\n所以呢為了怕這個高溫引起重休課或等等的措施就會有一些警示存在所以這部分學校有沒有機會跟環境部這邊有一個共同的方式來處理這個我們跟環境部有那個有一個受體\n檢測的一個系統它是每小時會更新只要我們部裡跟地方政府的教育局也都在這個群組裡面如果說突然有一些空氣惡化的一個狀況的話我們也會及時的通報地方教育局地方教育局他會透過校安系統來跟學校\n對即時來通知他們比如說要採取相關的一些因應防護作為比如說門窗緊閉或是相關的一些比如說怎麼樣學童在回去的時候可能比如說戴口罩來保護他自己的一個身體健康這部分我們都有去提醒學校那相關的SOP我們部裡也有訂相關的一個規定來保障這些學生\n好 謝謝 謝謝大家的用心不過這個我會來精進一下因為這個的確我們台灣還有進步的空間啦那我們會跟教育部一起來再來合作再來提出一個新的對策OK OK 好 謝謝那就幫部長還有教育部這邊那另外最後一個相關的環境部如果能夠有效的引導企業資源\n來落實這個永續經營的永續發展的部分我們也知道不管是過去的這個CSR ESG到未來的SDG大型企業跟上市會公司其實都希望能夠對社會有更多的這些協助\n那這一部分這邊幾個例子我想部長也應該清楚就是有關的海委會針對這些需求他們成立了一個海洋保育ESG的媒合平台那在這個平台裡面呢企業端就可以從很多個這個海洋保育媒合項目裡面找到適合的合作機會\n然後民間團體還有地方政府就可以把這些他們的需求提到相關的企業讓他們去尋求合作和伴那這是才今年在二月初的時候成立的那現在是四月嘛那經過這些努力\n他們就發現從原來大家很喜歡做淨灘的活動開始改變他們如何處理這些海廢物的這些可能造成的影響那這個平台兩個多月以來其實已經初步每合21個團體28個案正在做執行或者是已經完成了企劃\n那相信這個對於證交所所屬的公司的治理評鑑來講他們就找到一個很好的接入口能夠讓剛剛講的大型企業或者是相關的這些資源可以投入到這邊來所以他們一定海洋淨好生物保育棲地守護海洋素養等等的跟海洋相關的這些內容都可以處理進來\n我想這是一個很好的一個模式那可是環境部所張力的更多不管是空氣啦廢水啊或者是等等的廢毒等等那這部分不知道部長你有沒有這方面的一些企劃或者是想法\n因為環境部過去環保署通常我們是一個管制單位所以其實都跟會有點緊張的關係就是說我們要罰人家處罰人家制定標準那我們最近其實改變幅度蠻大的例如說我們在其實他這個業局是創造一個平台媒合的平台那我們是實際上去做例如說重規司他就淨零綠生活\n十一住行娛樂那種大聯盟已經把企業都全部扣進去已經有140幾家企業那氣候署也有我們每個私署如果跟產業有溝通的就想要公私協力一起來完成某一些事就是說把公部門的預算槓桿到民間一起來參與所以其實我們也有做但是他們是\n支援一個平台來媒合撮合我們就直接去做一些事情公司協力來完成政府的禁令所以一點點不一樣我是覺得等到過一段時間成果之後再跟委員報告哪一個效果好如果他們這個好的話我們也願意來學習啦\n好啊非常期待因為我們上次也去看過紀錄片種土也感受到臺灣真的很需要大家共同來守護我們的有了健康的國土就有健康的國民當然就會有健康的臺灣大家一起努力謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝王振旭\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.646 --> 00:09.779\n謝謝主席我們還是麻煩本部長\n\n00:15.565 --> 00:38.685\n謝謝你剛剛花很多時間讓大家知道目前針對環境部正在執行一些業務尤其是對於今天的主題在空屋方面還有在室內品質的方面做了哪一些的努力所以就實務上等一下來跟您請教那第二個題目就是相關於如何能夠研議引導企業資源有效落實到ESG的這個模式\n\n00:40.927 --> 00:59.834\n我想很謝謝部長在上個月底也麻煩您到長庚醫院去考察具體的成果我們可以看到就是持續要麻煩環境部、衛福部跟經濟部等能夠持續精進醫院的節能減碳的政策來協助醫院\n\n01:00.374 --> 01:15.096\n藉由ESCO的這個等等措施來有效落實節能減碳跟環境永續的目標那第二部分就是要麻煩環境部來精進醫院室內空氣品質的標準來研議醫院\n\n01:16.238 --> 01:41.120\n周邊化設空品維護區的必要性效益這些的這個研議的部分那另外也針對水錯辦法的修正來請貴部輔導醫院落實污水的處理那我們也當場看到其實長庚體系或長庚林口醫學中心這方面是做了非常的進步那也得到部長很多的這些除了\n\n01:42.882 --> 01:57.703\n當場給予一些建議以外那也知道未來如何能夠協助其他的醫療機構也有類似的改善的措施那這部分因為當天比較匆忙那今天部長還有時間可以再做一點相關的補充嗎\n\n01:59.926 --> 02:16.584\n結報委員那個我必須說很多的公立醫院相對的誘因沒有像長庚體系這麼的好所以說真的我們也我也鼓勵說長庚醫院是不是他們的行政的可不可以幫很多的其他醫院但是也跟委員報告其實很多的公立醫院他們其實\n\n02:17.645 --> 02:39.407\n很多沒有那麼的積極啦有些部門很積極有些沒有那麼積極我們現在正在想辦法是不是有沒有一些好的方法讓公立醫院部立醫院可能都要積極的做我現在從這個長庚醫院來看的話民間的醫院的量能還有他的動機跟企圖形式真的比公家部門來得積極的這個是我們公部門要檢討的\n\n02:40.461 --> 03:01.297\n好我想大家要共同努力一起來求進步那針對今天的這個討論的主題也要麻煩勞動部跟那個教育部的代表恭喜林玉堂副署長即將升任署長那另外我們也麻煩那個教育部資格室跟國教署的兩位專門委員\n\n03:02.758 --> 03:31.898\n包括廖雙慶跟薛承佑專委一起來討論一下從下一張的幻燈片我們發現不管是在工廠工作的場域或者是教育的場域其實不管是周邊的空氣品質或者是室內品質真的還是有很多值得我們持續來求精進的地方這張幻燈片我們可以看得到在工作場域\n\n03:32.858 --> 04:00.623\n目前的數據好像違規到這個有關於工作環境監測實質辦法第七條第一款規定的非常的少這個跟印象的落差其實蠻大的因為我們了解像我們現在四年的CO2是648原則上是不希望超過1000所以現在是很恢復規定可是我們不知道為什麼目前可以去查得到的這些違反的場次\n\n04:01.503 --> 04:18.691\n就以工作的這個場域為主來看的話每六個月應該監測二氧化碳濃度一次以上可是這個量似乎跟我們所理解的真的是有很大的落差這個對於這個保障工作場域的勞工的健康其實是有一些影響\n\n04:19.639 --> 04:45.429\n那這部分不知道未來勞動部指南署這邊有沒有更好的方式去架設一個平台讓大家符合規範符合要求的這些廠家能夠據實的來呈報他們監測的成果這部分不知道目前的執行狀況如何是跟委員報告在委員秀這張投影片它基本上是依據職業安全服務法\n\n04:46.226 --> 05:05.242\n那他的部分的話他這個剛剛提到這個這個違規的事項基本上他是來自於一般辦公場所裡面的這個設有空調中央空調裡面的這個二氧化碳的一個剛剛委員提到六個月要測一次那這個違反事項就是我們去勞檢的時候發現\n\n05:07.750 --> 05:23.657\n這個僱主沒有每六個月測一次是這個部分那至於這個實務上測的結果大概都是維持在700到800之間並不會一般辦公場所如果他沒有使用到其他的化學物質基本上都是在1000以下\n\n05:25.157 --> 05:47.619\n所以能不能請他們能夠主動的把這些監測到的相關的數值通報到你們的單位或者是相關的單位一起來掌握到他們是不是有除了有一些違規的內涵以外那實際上到底他的這些空氣品質在室內是如何有辦法維持的\n\n05:48.340 --> 06:14.341\n至少是要合乎到規定那除了二氧化碳以外其實像鉛、丙酮、甲烷那些更對勞工或者是影響更明顯的這個當然他需要長期監測才有辦法知道對於勞工的這個健康的影響那這部分如果能夠有一個主動通報的機制我們建立大數據的話將來處理起來也更能夠發揮它的效果這部分將來是不是有機會請這個\n\n06:16.303 --> 06:26.379\n勞動部跟環境部共同來研擬看看這樣的平台的設置那如果這個平台的話未來我們是不是能夠也把這個訊息揭露給公眾能夠做具體的參考\n\n06:28.972 --> 06:54.224\n報告委員因為過去是例如說早一天去做檢測那當然那個就要花一整天的時間那未來現在的像我們現在這個會議是這樣的數據其實如果經過環境部認可之後有可能就像委員這樣的數字能夠出來讓大家及時的知道但是這個我們會再研究一下如果準確性還有他的網路上可以弄得到的話我們很樂觀其成有這樣的方式來推動\n\n06:55.918 --> 07:20.516\n好那就麻煩兩個單位來演繹看看好那再過來就是要有關這個校園周邊的部分我們也知道校園周邊空屋的管制很需要也很重要因為這牽扯到學童的健康還有他未來的成長那我們也知道全國172間的學校跟違規工廠相距其實不到500公尺這個是真的很希望能夠有效去改善那再參考\n\n07:22.018 --> 07:41.438\n尤其是這個歐洲國家他們針對於局部地區尤其在學校附近都很好的一些方式在處理法國荷蘭英國等等他們希望能夠提供及時的空瓶的這些建設那如果是像瑞典的話他們還希望能夠有一個培訓的\n\n07:42.700 --> 07:59.575\n一些作為那還有部分的北歐國家設立綠色學校帶來包括植栽隔離測量線數進行等那這個部分不知道教育部相關單位有沒有一些機制正在做這方面的精進\n\n08:00.656 --> 08:24.063\n跟委員報告一下就是我們教育部就是我們會跟環境部來做密切的合作但我們現在就是依據環境部他的空氣室內空氣污染的一個指引的一個做法在我們第一個首先會非常重視那個源頭管理等到源頭管理的話就是源頭管制就是跟環境部就是說能夠請環境部能夠跟地方要求說\n\n08:25.383 --> 08:51.692\n加強了稽查是不是有空污的一些污染源那把這部分給做好管制那第二個部分就是我們有一個新風換氣系統新風換氣系統這邊國教所也可以來補充一下就是部理會來針對這些學校來做相關的一些是不是評估之後是不是需要來裝設這些新風換氣系統來保障學童的一個呼吸權這樣子\n\n08:55.734 --> 09:19.147\n那因為那個是室內嘛那這個如果室外的空氣比如說前幾天其實這個空汙影響非常嚴重那學校有沒有辦法及時知道這些空氣品質在這個授課教學過程當中就能夠及時的去幫助學校或者是引導學生做哪一些環境上的適應我們也知道比如說現在台灣夏天非常熱\n\n09:20.508 --> 09:37.629\n所以呢為了怕這個高溫引起重休課或等等的措施就會有一些警示存在所以這部分學校有沒有機會跟環境部這邊有一個共同的方式來處理這個我們跟環境部有那個有一個受體\n\n09:39.030 --> 09:56.165\n檢測的一個系統它是每小時會更新只要我們部裡跟地方政府的教育局也都在這個群組裡面如果說突然有一些空氣惡化的一個狀況的話我們也會及時的通報地方教育局地方教育局他會透過校安系統來跟學校\n\n09:57.387 --> 10:19.529\n對即時來通知他們比如說要採取相關的一些因應防護作為比如說門窗緊閉或是相關的一些比如說怎麼樣學童在回去的時候可能比如說戴口罩來保護他自己的一個身體健康這部分我們都有去提醒學校那相關的SOP我們部裡也有訂相關的一個規定來保障這些學生\n\n10:20.650 --> 10:40.450\n好謝謝謝謝大家的用心不過這個我會來精進一下因為這個的確我們台灣還有進步的空間啦那我們會跟教育部一起來再來合作再來提出一個新的對策OKOK好謝謝那就幫部長還有教育部這邊那另外最後一個相關的環境部如果能夠有效的引導企業資源\n\n10:41.912 --> 10:57.869\n來落實這個永續經營的永續發展的部分我們也知道不管是過去的這個CSRESG到未來的SDG大型企業跟上市會公司其實都希望能夠對社會有更多的這些協助\n\n10:59.190 --> 11:18.843\n那這一部分這邊幾個例子我想部長也應該清楚就是有關的海委會針對這些需求他們成立了一個海洋保育ESG的媒合平台那在這個平台裡面呢企業端就可以從很多個這個海洋保育媒合項目裡面找到適合的合作機會\n\n11:19.864 --> 11:35.734\n然後民間團體還有地方政府就可以把這些他們的需求提到相關的企業讓他們去尋求合作和伴那這是才今年在二月初的時候成立的那現在是四月嘛那經過這些努力\n\n11:36.474 --> 11:57.934\n他們就發現從原來大家很喜歡做淨灘的活動開始改變他們如何處理這些海廢物的這些可能造成的影響那這個平台兩個多月以來其實已經初步每合21個團體28個案正在做執行或者是已經完成了企劃\n\n11:58.835 --> 12:22.227\n那相信這個對於證交所所屬的公司的治理評鑑來講他們就找到一個很好的接入口能夠讓剛剛講的大型企業或者是相關的這些資源可以投入到這邊來所以他們一定海洋淨好生物保育棲地守護海洋素養等等的跟海洋相關的這些內容都可以處理進來\n\n12:23.388 --> 12:40.715\n我想這是一個很好的一個模式那可是環境部所張力的更多不管是空氣啦廢水啊或者是等等的廢毒等等那這部分不知道部長你有沒有這方面的一些企劃或者是想法\n\n12:42.065 --> 13:03.215\n因為環境部過去環保署通常我們是一個管制單位所以其實都跟會有點緊張的關係就是說我們要罰人家處罰人家制定標準那我們最近其實改變幅度蠻大的例如說我們在其實他這個業局是創造一個平台媒合的平台那我們是實際上去做例如說重規司他就淨零綠生活\n\n13:03.715 --> 13:20.587\n十一住行娛樂那種大聯盟已經把企業都全部扣進去已經有140幾家企業那氣候署也有我們每個私署如果跟產業有溝通的就想要公私協力一起來完成某一些事就是說把公部門的預算槓桿到民間一起來參與所以其實我們也有做但是他們是\n\n13:21.187 --> 13:35.007\n支援一個平台來媒合撮合我們就直接去做一些事情公司協力來完成政府的禁令所以一點點不一樣我是覺得等到過一段時間成果之後再跟委員報告哪一個效果好如果他們這個好的話我們也願意來學習啦\n\n13:36.087 --> 13:54.084\n好啊非常期待因為我們上次也去看過紀錄片種土也感受到臺灣真的很需要大家共同來守護我們的有了健康的國土就有健康的國民當然就會有健康的臺灣大家一起努力謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝王振旭\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.646,"end":9.779,"text":"謝謝主席我們還是麻煩本部長"},{"start":15.565,"end":38.685,"text":"謝謝你剛剛花很多時間讓大家知道目前針對環境部正在執行一些業務尤其是對於今天的主題在空屋方面還有在室內品質的方面做了哪一些的努力所以就實務上等一下來跟您請教那第二個題目就是相關於如何能夠研議引導企業資源有效落實到ESG的這個模式"},{"start":40.927,"end":59.834,"text":"我想很謝謝部長在上個月底也麻煩您到長庚醫院去考察具體的成果我們可以看到就是持續要麻煩環境部、衛福部跟經濟部等能夠持續精進醫院的節能減碳的政策來協助醫院"},{"start":60.374,"end":75.096,"text":"藉由ESCO的這個等等措施來有效落實節能減碳跟環境永續的目標那第二部分就是要麻煩環境部來精進醫院室內空氣品質的標準來研議醫院"},{"start":76.238,"end":101.12,"text":"周邊化設空品維護區的必要性效益這些的這個研議的部分那另外也針對水錯辦法的修正來請貴部輔導醫院落實污水的處理那我們也當場看到其實長庚體系或長庚林口醫學中心這方面是做了非常的進步那也得到部長很多的這些除了"},{"start":102.882,"end":117.703,"text":"當場給予一些建議以外那也知道未來如何能夠協助其他的醫療機構也有類似的改善的措施那這部分因為當天比較匆忙那今天部長還有時間可以再做一點相關的補充嗎"},{"start":119.926,"end":136.584,"text":"結報委員那個我必須說很多的公立醫院相對的誘因沒有像長庚體系這麼的好所以說真的我們也我也鼓勵說長庚醫院是不是他們的行政的可不可以幫很多的其他醫院但是也跟委員報告其實很多的公立醫院他們其實"},{"start":137.645,"end":159.407,"text":"很多沒有那麼的積極啦有些部門很積極有些沒有那麼積極我們現在正在想辦法是不是有沒有一些好的方法讓公立醫院部立醫院可能都要積極的做我現在從這個長庚醫院來看的話民間的醫院的量能還有他的動機跟企圖形式真的比公家部門來得積極的這個是我們公部門要檢討的"},{"start":160.461,"end":181.297,"text":"好我想大家要共同努力一起來求進步那針對今天的這個討論的主題也要麻煩勞動部跟那個教育部的代表恭喜林玉堂副署長即將升任署長那另外我們也麻煩那個教育部資格室跟國教署的兩位專門委員"},{"start":182.758,"end":211.898,"text":"包括廖雙慶跟薛承佑專委一起來討論一下從下一張的幻燈片我們發現不管是在工廠工作的場域或者是教育的場域其實不管是周邊的空氣品質或者是室內品質真的還是有很多值得我們持續來求精進的地方這張幻燈片我們可以看得到在工作場域"},{"start":212.858,"end":240.623,"text":"目前的數據好像違規到這個有關於工作環境監測實質辦法第七條第一款規定的非常的少這個跟印象的落差其實蠻大的因為我們了解像我們現在四年的CO2是648原則上是不希望超過1000所以現在是很恢復規定可是我們不知道為什麼目前可以去查得到的這些違反的場次"},{"start":241.503,"end":258.691,"text":"就以工作的這個場域為主來看的話每六個月應該監測二氧化碳濃度一次以上可是這個量似乎跟我們所理解的真的是有很大的落差這個對於這個保障工作場域的勞工的健康其實是有一些影響"},{"start":259.639,"end":285.429,"text":"那這部分不知道未來勞動部指南署這邊有沒有更好的方式去架設一個平台讓大家符合規範符合要求的這些廠家能夠據實的來呈報他們監測的成果這部分不知道目前的執行狀況如何是 跟委員報告在委員秀這張投影片它基本上是依據職業安全服務法"},{"start":286.226,"end":305.242,"text":"那他的部分的話他這個剛剛提到這個這個違規的事項基本上他是來自於一般辦公場所裡面的這個設有空調中央空調裡面的這個二氧化碳的一個剛剛委員提到六個月要測一次那這個違反事項就是我們去勞檢的時候發現"},{"start":307.75,"end":323.657,"text":"這個僱主沒有每六個月測一次是這個部分那至於這個實務上測的結果大概都是維持在700到800之間並不會一般辦公場所如果他沒有使用到其他的化學物質基本上都是在1000以下"},{"start":325.157,"end":347.619,"text":"所以能不能請他們能夠主動的把這些監測到的相關的數值通報到你們的單位或者是相關的單位一起來掌握到他們是不是有除了有一些違規的內涵以外那實際上到底他的這些空氣品質在室內是如何有辦法維持的"},{"start":348.34,"end":374.341,"text":"至少是要合乎到規定那除了二氧化碳以外其實像鉛、丙酮、甲烷那些更對勞工或者是影響更明顯的這個當然他需要長期監測才有辦法知道對於勞工的這個健康的影響那這部分如果能夠有一個主動通報的機制我們建立大數據的話將來處理起來也更能夠發揮它的效果這部分將來是不是有機會請這個"},{"start":376.303,"end":386.379,"text":"勞動部跟環境部共同來研擬看看這樣的平台的設置那如果這個平台的話未來我們是不是能夠也把這個訊息揭露給公眾能夠做具體的參考"},{"start":388.972,"end":414.224,"text":"報告委員因為過去是例如說早一天去做檢測那當然那個就要花一整天的時間那未來現在的像我們現在這個會議是這樣的數據其實如果經過環境部認可之後有可能就像委員這樣的數字能夠出來讓大家及時的知道但是這個我們會再研究一下如果準確性還有他的網路上可以弄得到的話我們很樂觀其成有這樣的方式來推動"},{"start":415.918,"end":440.516,"text":"好那就麻煩兩個單位來演繹看看好那再過來就是要有關這個校園周邊的部分我們也知道校園周邊空屋的管制很需要也很重要因為這牽扯到學童的健康還有他未來的成長那我們也知道全國172間的學校跟違規工廠相距其實不到500公尺這個是真的很希望能夠有效去改善那再參考"},{"start":442.018,"end":461.438,"text":"尤其是這個歐洲國家他們針對於局部地區尤其在學校附近都很好的一些方式在處理法國荷蘭英國等等他們希望能夠提供及時的空瓶的這些建設那如果是像瑞典的話他們還希望能夠有一個培訓的"},{"start":462.7,"end":479.575,"text":"一些作為那還有部分的北歐國家設立綠色學校帶來包括植栽隔離測量線數進行等那這個部分不知道教育部相關單位有沒有一些機制正在做這方面的精進"},{"start":480.656,"end":504.063,"text":"跟委員報告一下就是我們教育部就是我們會跟環境部來做密切的合作但我們現在就是依據環境部他的空氣室內空氣污染的一個指引的一個做法在我們第一個首先會非常重視那個源頭管理等到源頭管理的話就是源頭管制就是跟環境部就是說能夠請環境部能夠跟地方要求說"},{"start":505.383,"end":531.692,"text":"加強了稽查是不是有空污的一些污染源那把這部分給做好管制那第二個部分就是我們有一個新風換氣系統新風換氣系統這邊國教所也可以來補充一下就是部理會來針對這些學校來做相關的一些是不是評估之後是不是需要來裝設這些新風換氣系統來保障學童的一個呼吸權這樣子"},{"start":535.734,"end":559.147,"text":"那因為那個是室內嘛那這個如果室外的空氣比如說前幾天其實這個空汙影響非常嚴重那學校有沒有辦法及時知道這些空氣品質在這個授課教學過程當中就能夠及時的去幫助學校或者是引導學生做哪一些環境上的適應我們也知道比如說現在台灣夏天非常熱"},{"start":560.508,"end":577.629,"text":"所以呢為了怕這個高溫引起重休課或等等的措施就會有一些警示存在所以這部分學校有沒有機會跟環境部這邊有一個共同的方式來處理這個我們跟環境部有那個有一個受體"},{"start":579.03,"end":596.165,"text":"檢測的一個系統它是每小時會更新只要我們部裡跟地方政府的教育局也都在這個群組裡面如果說突然有一些空氣惡化的一個狀況的話我們也會及時的通報地方教育局地方教育局他會透過校安系統來跟學校"},{"start":597.387,"end":619.529,"text":"對即時來通知他們比如說要採取相關的一些因應防護作為比如說門窗緊閉或是相關的一些比如說怎麼樣學童在回去的時候可能比如說戴口罩來保護他自己的一個身體健康這部分我們都有去提醒學校那相關的SOP我們部裡也有訂相關的一個規定來保障這些學生"},{"start":620.65,"end":640.45,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝大家的用心不過這個我會來精進一下因為這個的確我們台灣還有進步的空間啦那我們會跟教育部一起來再來合作再來提出一個新的對策OK OK 好 謝謝那就幫部長還有教育部這邊那另外最後一個相關的環境部如果能夠有效的引導企業資源"},{"start":641.912,"end":657.869,"text":"來落實這個永續經營的永續發展的部分我們也知道不管是過去的這個CSR ESG到未來的SDG大型企業跟上市會公司其實都希望能夠對社會有更多的這些協助"},{"start":659.19,"end":678.843,"text":"那這一部分這邊幾個例子我想部長也應該清楚就是有關的海委會針對這些需求他們成立了一個海洋保育ESG的媒合平台那在這個平台裡面呢企業端就可以從很多個這個海洋保育媒合項目裡面找到適合的合作機會"},{"start":679.864,"end":695.734,"text":"然後民間團體還有地方政府就可以把這些他們的需求提到相關的企業讓他們去尋求合作和伴那這是才今年在二月初的時候成立的那現在是四月嘛那經過這些努力"},{"start":696.474,"end":717.934,"text":"他們就發現從原來大家很喜歡做淨灘的活動開始改變他們如何處理這些海廢物的這些可能造成的影響那這個平台兩個多月以來其實已經初步每合21個團體28個案正在做執行或者是已經完成了企劃"},{"start":718.835,"end":742.227,"text":"那相信這個對於證交所所屬的公司的治理評鑑來講他們就找到一個很好的接入口能夠讓剛剛講的大型企業或者是相關的這些資源可以投入到這邊來所以他們一定海洋淨好生物保育棲地守護海洋素養等等的跟海洋相關的這些內容都可以處理進來"},{"start":743.388,"end":760.715,"text":"我想這是一個很好的一個模式那可是環境部所張力的更多不管是空氣啦廢水啊或者是等等的廢毒等等那這部分不知道部長你有沒有這方面的一些企劃或者是想法"},{"start":762.065,"end":783.215,"text":"因為環境部過去環保署通常我們是一個管制單位所以其實都跟會有點緊張的關係就是說我們要罰人家處罰人家制定標準那我們最近其實改變幅度蠻大的例如說我們在其實他這個業局是創造一個平台媒合的平台那我們是實際上去做例如說重規司他就淨零綠生活"},{"start":783.715,"end":800.587,"text":"十一住行娛樂那種大聯盟已經把企業都全部扣進去已經有140幾家企業那氣候署也有我們每個私署如果跟產業有溝通的就想要公私協力一起來完成某一些事就是說把公部門的預算槓桿到民間一起來參與所以其實我們也有做但是他們是"},{"start":801.187,"end":815.007,"text":"支援一個平台來媒合撮合我們就直接去做一些事情公司協力來完成政府的禁令所以一點點不一樣我是覺得等到過一段時間成果之後再跟委員報告哪一個效果好如果他們這個好的話我們也願意來學習啦"},{"start":816.087,"end":834.084,"text":"好啊非常期待因為我們上次也去看過紀錄片種土也感受到臺灣真的很需要大家共同來守護我們的有了健康的國土就有健康的國民當然就會有健康的臺灣大家一起努力謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝王振旭"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":876,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（12時10分）謝謝主席，還是麻煩彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：彭部長好。謝謝你剛剛花很多時間讓大家知道目前環境部正在執行的一些業務，尤其針對今天的主題，在空污方面，還有室內空氣品質方面做了哪一些努力，等一下我會就實務上的一些問題跟您請教。第二個題目是如何引導企業資源有效落實ESG模式？","首先謝謝部長上個月底一起到長庚醫院考察，具體的成果是第一，麻煩環境部、衛福部及經濟部等，要持續精進醫院的節能減碳政策，協助醫院藉由ESCO等措施，有效落實節能減碳及環境永續的目標。第二，麻煩環境部精進醫院室內空氣品質標準，並研議醫院週邊劃設空品維護區的必要性效益。另外，針對水措辦法的修正，請貴部輔導醫院落實污水處理。那天我們當場看到長庚體系或長庚林口醫學中心在這方面做得非常進步，部長除了當場給予一些建議外，也知道未來如何協助其他醫療機構也能有類似的改善措施，這部分因為當天比較匆忙，今天部長還有一些時間，是否可以針對這個部分，再做相關的補充？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我必須說，很多公立醫院相對誘因沒有像長庚體系這麼好，所以我也鼓勵長庚醫院的行政部門，是不是可以幫助其他醫院？但也跟委員報告，很多公立醫院其實沒有那麼積極，當然有些部分很積極，有些沒有那麼積極，所以我們現在正在想辦法，看看是不是有一些好的方法，可以讓公立醫院、部立醫院都能積極去做。從長庚醫院來看，民間醫院的量能、動機跟企圖心，是真的比公家部門來得積極的，這個是公部門要檢討的。"],["王委員正旭：好，我想大家共同努力，一起求進步。針對今天討論的主題，也要麻煩勞動部跟教育部的代表。","恭喜林毓堂副署長即將升任署長，另外也要麻煩教育部資科司跟國教署的兩位專門委員，包括廖雙慶跟薛承祐專委，大家一起來討論。","從這一張圖表中，我們發現工作的場域或是教育的場域，不管是週邊的空氣品質或者室內空氣品質，真的還有很多值得我們持續精進的地方，這張圖片上看到的工作場域相關數據，好像違反「勞工作業環境監測實施辦法」第七條第一款規定的非常少，這跟我們的印象落差其實滿大的，因為根據我們的了解，室內CO2的濃度原則上是不希望超過1,000，現在我們室內的數值是68，所以很合乎規定。目前我們去查察的這些違反的場室，以工作場域來看，本來應該是每六個月監測二氧化碳濃度一次以上，可是這個量似乎跟我們所理解的有很大的落差，這對於保障工作場域的勞工健康其實是有一些影響，這部分不知道未來勞動部職安署有沒有更好的方式去架設一個平臺，讓符合規範、符合要求的這些廠家能夠據實呈報他們監測的成果？這部分不知道目前的執行狀況如何？"],["林副署長毓堂：是，跟委員報告，在委員show的這張圖裡面，基本上是依據職業安全衛生法，剛剛提到的違規事項，基本上是來自於一般辦公場所內設有中央空調的二氧化碳濃度，剛剛委員提到每六個月要測一次，而這個違反事項就是我們去勞檢的時候，發現雇主沒有每六個月測一次，這是這個部分。至於實務上測到的結果，大概都是維持在700到800之間，一般辦公場所如果沒有使用到其他化學物質，基本上都是在1,000以下。"],["王委員正旭：能不能請他們主動把這些監測到的數值通報到你們單位或者是相關單位，一起來掌握他們除了是不是有一些違規的內涵外，實際上的室內空氣品質是如何，至少是要合乎規定。除了二氧化碳以外，其實像鉛、丙酮、甲苯等，對勞工健康會有更明顯的影響，當然這需要長期監測才有辦法知道對勞工的健康影響，這部分如果能有一個主動通報的機制，我們建立大數據，將來在處理上也更能發揮效果，這部分將來是不是有機會請勞動部跟環境部共同來研擬這樣一個平臺的設置？如果有了這個平臺，未來我們就能夠把相關訊息揭露給公眾，提供他們具體的參考。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，過去譬如是找一天去檢測，當然就要花一整天的時間，未來像我們現在這個會議室這樣的數據，如果經過環境部認可，有可能就有像委員這樣的數字出來，讓大家即時知道，這個我們會再研究一下，如果準確性還有網路上可以弄得到，我們樂觀其成有這樣的方式來推動。"],["王委員正旭：好，那就麻煩兩個單位來研議看看。再來就是有關於校園週邊的空污管制。我們知道校園週邊空污的管制很需要，也很重要，因為這牽扯到學童的健康及未來的成長，但是全國有172間學校與違規工廠相距不到500公尺，這個真的很希望能夠有效改善。參考歐洲國家作法，他們對於局部地區，尤其是學校附近，都有很好的一些方式在處理，法國、荷蘭、英國等等都能提供即時空品的監測，瑞典的話，他們還有一個培訓作為；部分北歐國家更設立「綠色學校帶」，包括植栽隔離、車輛限速、禁行等，不知道教育部或相關單位有沒有一些機制正在做這方面的精進？"],["廖專門委員雙慶：跟委員報告，我們教育部會跟環境部密切合作，現在就是依據環境部的室內空氣污染指引，首先會非常重視源頭管制，就是請環境部要求地方要加強稽查是不是有空污污染源，做好這部分的管制。第二個部分，我們有一個新風換氣系統，新風換氣系統的問題，等一下國教署也可以來補充說明，就是部裡會針對一些學校，評估是否需要裝設新風換氣系統，以保障學童的呼吸權。"],["王委員正旭：好，OK，這個是室內部分，如果是室外的空氣，比如前幾天空污影響非常嚴重，學校有沒有辦法即時知道空氣品質，在授課教學的過程當中，即時幫助學校或者引導學生做哪一些環境上的適應？我們也知道，比如說現在臺灣夏天非常熱，為了怕高溫引起休克等等，所以有些措施就會有一些警示存在，這部分學校有沒有機會跟環境部有一個共同的方式來處理？"],["廖專門委員雙慶：也跟委員報告一下，我們跟環境部有一個受體檢測的系統，它每小時會更新一次，我們部裡跟地方政府的教育局也都在這個群組裡面，如果突然有一些空氣惡化狀況的話，我們也會即時通報地方教育局，地方教育局會透過校安系統來即時通知學校採取相關的一些因應防護作為，比如說門窗緊閉或是相關的一些作為，像是學童在回去的時候，可能要戴口罩來保護他自己的身體健康，這部分我們都有去提醒學校，相關的SOP我們部裡也有訂相關的規定來保障這些學生。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝，謝謝大家的用心。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，這個我們會來精進一下，的確我們臺灣還有進步的空間，我們會跟教育部一起合作，再來提出一個新的對策。"],["王委員正旭：OK，好，謝謝，那就麻煩部長，還有教育部這邊。","最後是環境部如何能夠有效引導企業資源，來落實永續發展的部分。我們也知道，不管是過去的CSR、ESG，到未來的SDGs，大型企業跟上市櫃公司其實都希望能夠對社會有更多的協助，這一部分在這邊舉個例子，我想部長也應該清楚，就是有關於海委會，針對這些需求他們成立了一個海洋保育ESG的媒合平臺，在這個平臺裡面，企業端就可以從很多的海洋保育媒合項目裡面找到適合的合作機會，然後民間團體還有地方政府就可以把他們的需求提給相關的企業，讓他們去尋求合作夥伴，這個是今年2月初的時候成立的，現在是4月，經過這些努力，他們就發現原來大家很喜歡做的淨灘活動開始改變他們如何處理這些海廢物可能造成的影響，這個平臺推出兩個多月以來，其實已經初步媒合了21個團體28個案子正在做執行或者是已經完成了企劃。相信這個對於證交所所屬的公司治理評鑑來講，他們就找到一個很好的切入口，能夠讓剛剛講的大型企業或者是相關的資源可以投入到這邊來，所以他們擬定了海洋淨好、生物保育、棲地守護、海洋素養等等跟海洋相關的內容都可以處理進來，我想這是一個很好的模式。可是環境部所掌理的更多，不管是空氣、廢水或者是廢土等等，這個部分不知道部長有沒有這方面的一些企劃或者是想法？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，環境部過去是環保署，通常我們是一個管制單位，所以其實會有一點緊張的關係，就是說我們要罰人家、處罰人家、制定標準。我們最近其實改變幅度滿大的，例如說我們在……其實這個ESG是創造一個媒合的平臺，那我們是實際上去做，例如綜規司的淨零綠生活，食衣住行育樂的大聯盟已經把企業都加進來，且已經有一百四十幾家企業；氣候署也有，我們每個司署如果跟產業有溝通的，就要公私協力一起來完成某一些事，就是把公部門的預算槓桿到民間一起來參與，所以其實我們也有做，但是他們是建立一個平臺來媒合、撮合，我們就直接去做一些事情，公私協力來完成政府的淨零，所以一點點不一樣，我是覺得等到過一段時間有成果之後，再跟委員報告哪一個效果好，如果他們這個方式好的話，我們也願意來學習。"],["王委員正旭：好，非常期待，因為我們上次也去看過紀錄片「種土」，也感受到臺灣真的很需要大家共同來守護，有了健康的國土就有健康的國民，當然就會有健康的臺灣，大家一起努力。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王正旭委員的發言。","那接下來請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}