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{\"word\": \"活\", \"start\": 379.652, \"end\": 379.672, \"score\": 0.043}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 379.672, \"end\": 379.692, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 381.552, \"end\": 403.318, \"text\": \"我們來研議一下因為其實我也看環境部的網站並沒有針對小朋友的研究但是我們跟小朋友相關的那這個我們會來研究整個針對這個族群再提供一些服務出來那另外一個是我們會研議這個環境地圖把這個污染數據把它視覺化那委員講的能不能容易懂不是學科學的也可以懂這個我們會來努力\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 381.552, \"end\": 381.952, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 381.952, \"end\": 382.132, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 382.132, \"end\": 382.252, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 382.252, \"end\": 382.372, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 382.372, \"end\": 382.593, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 382.593, \"end\": 383.193, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 383.193, \"end\": 383.313, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"也\", 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00:00:52,351\n在4月9號我們已經邀請了環境部教育部衛福部還有專家學者一併召開內部的討論會議喔那這個討論會議上我們其實討論到非常多比較仔細的事情那也很感謝環境部的同仁在當天有一些很具體的共識讓我們後續在很多政策的推動上可以往下走\n\n3\n00:00:52,771 --> 00:01:02,760\n第一個跟部長分享一下第一個是我們談到關於工業區周邊學校的劃設這件事情因為目前呢在我們所謂空氣品質維護區現在目前現行有91個空維區那9個在工業區10個在學校\n\n4\n00:01:09,085 --> 00:01:29,240\n其他91個扣掉10個再扣掉9個其他都不在空污重災區這個我們日後再討論但是只有10個在學校這件事情呢我們也可以理解可能對於地方縣市政府來說他們的認定跟你們的認定標準不一樣或是他們的認定跟很多專家學者認為孩童是高風險高敏感這件事情的認知不一樣\n\n5\n00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:44,913\n但有沒有機會我們多多增加工業區周遭學校的畫社這件事情可不可以讓環境部積極的跟地方政府來討論到底是在畫社上有什麼困難還是跟社區溝通有什麼困難部長你怎麼看這件事情\n\n6\n00:01:45,714 --> 00:02:00,168\n謝謝委員能夠對這個議題主動來找我們第一個是我非常贊同委員的看法但是這個設定其實執行上是地方報決所以我們會可能要增加溝通的頻率然後一些方案讓他們願意來做所以這個部分我們會來積極來推動這個事情\n\n7\n00:02:02,691 --> 00:02:30,917\n好那我們這邊其實也提出一個還蠻具體的建議因為地方上目前都在規劃通學步道這是為了確保孩子們行的安全如果要跟地方政府溝通他們覺得在這個議題上有困難其實我們比較具體的建議可以先結合地方政府的通學步道這件事情去想像也許他們就比較可以理解到底這件事情可以怎麼做那我想具體的方向我們比較希望環境部真的可以主動的行論地方政府問一下他們相關的進度或者是有什麼\n\n8\n00:02:31,497 --> 00:02:48,204\n困難跟問題需要你們積極的討論或者是找協助專家學者來協助這個部分就拜託你們再進一步考量那也謝謝部長剛剛非常正向的回應第二個是關於控務法第85條我們談到違規如果對學校有影響的要從重處罰當時的從重的罰款是說加重0.1到0.5倍可是我們去調了這兩年的裁罰紀錄是零\n\n9\n00:02:55,347 --> 00:03:09,927\n沒有從學校通報這邊來的那當時的困難我們聽到大氣司很明白告訴我們因為這個檢舉的主體必須是學校才會納入有所謂的學校受到影響可是部長你可以想像一個情境假設我們\n\n10\n00:03:11,128 --> 00:03:34,240\n現在立法院這邊是一所學校我們旁邊的工廠失火了然後有這個空瓶的問題老師們第一時間做的應該是疏散孩子或者是尋求相關的幫助或是請家長趕快把孩子們帶回老師們想的第一件事一定不是打去環保局檢舉對不對可能是周邊的居民才有想到要去檢舉那如果學校沒有打這通檢舉電話對於地方的環保局他們的認定就是學校沒有受到影響\n\n11\n00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:45,976\n那我不會說這是公務人員的問題我會說這是現行法規規範的問題導致於學校如果沒有打這一通電話我們就不會認定學校的空品有受到影響\n\n12\n00:03:47,376 --> 00:04:07,510\n這件事情我認為其實我們可以透過條文的改善跟調整讓這件事情其實可以促成那但是我們並不是為了要處罰廠商而去做這件事情是我們希望在積極保護而上呼吸品質這件事情上我們有更積極的作為部長你覺得我這個建議我們可不可以往這邊去努力\n\n13\n00:04:09,271 --> 00:04:21,658\n其實我們現在是針對即興的事件例如說隔壁失火會不會往我們這邊飄我們有一個預警的機制是通知學校當然委員提的建議很好未來是不是我們這個預警的機制\n\n14\n00:04:23,939 --> 00:04:38,355\n如果通過學校的話加重裁罰我們可以來研議這個事情就是控訴法的部分修正是不是重重甚至剛剛委員說的這個處罰的比例飄到學校是不夠太輕的零點幾倍所以我們是不是再加重我們可以考慮\n\n15\n00:04:39,396 --> 00:05:05,951\n加重的部分我其实现在还在讨论还在研究但是我觉得你刚刚讲就是如果它确实已经造成学校影响可是我们真的不必要要学校打一通电话才算数的话我们往这里演绎真的是好的方向谢谢部长那至于这些裁罚的金额也就是所谓的这个基金目前它的裁罚用途目前并没有放在所谓学校空瓶改善学童紧急保护疏散医药的部分有没有机会往这里去讨论跟演绎\n\n16\n00:05:06,651 --> 00:05:29,046\n因為目前那個財劃法裡面這種罰款是到地方政府所以這個就變成地方政府願不願意給學校好那沒關係我當然知道是地方政府所以我們也許來想一想怎麼跟地方政府溝通站在積極保護兒少學校空品這件事情上我們可以更有作為好那接下來關於談到所謂有害空氣污染的部分\n\n17\n00:05:29,426 --> 00:05:56,845\n目前它的監測數字雖然都有上網公開可是說實話那個公開的資料它其實是比較適合科學家閱讀就算很多科學家認為那個都已經簡化過了精簡過了但是對於很多住民來說其實不方便閱讀而且資料也不及時它對於一般人來說是沒有可靜性的那我們甚至也認為其實相關的資料如果有兒少版就更好了也就是兒少版跟一般人的閱讀版而不是現在我們認為已經科普化的版本\n\n18\n00:05:57,225 --> 00:06:19,692\n那當時在跨部會的會議在我們辦公室召開那個內部的會議討論上我們很感謝大氣死友說會回去研議這件事情那我想這邊部長是不是也可以給我們一個承諾我們如何把這個資料可以更親民然後甚至有兒少版讓孩子知道說今天我可不可以出去打球今天我可不可以出去運動這個空品是不是適合我出去做戶外活動的\n\n19\n00:06:21,552 --> 00:06:43,318\n我們來研議一下因為其實我也看環境部的網站並沒有針對小朋友的研究但是我們跟小朋友相關的那這個我們會來研究整個針對這個族群再提供一些服務出來那另外一個是我們會研議這個環境地圖把這個污染數據把它視覺化那委員講的能不能容易懂不是學科學的也可以懂這個我們會來努力\n\n20\n00:06:43,618 --> 00:07:02,633\n好那包含還有兒少的部分喔好那最後再講一下我們當天還有提到目前這個有害空氣污染的部分只有其中有管道排放標準而不是空氣中的標準其實很難呈現可是我們那天在討論的時候其實就有人提到應該可以呈現每一根管道歷年來有沒有改善的數字比較這個有機會待會去研議嗎\n\n21\n00:07:05,635 --> 00:07:27,836\n好這個我們回去研究一下因為不知道他這個數據存在應該是沒有問題沒問題就回去研議那我們辦公室目前規劃是在6月或7月希望可以召開第二次像這樣子的內部討論會議所以我們今天才這麼積極提出很多問題那有一些有進展有一些進展還需要一些時間我也希望在那之前我們希望有這些相關進度的報告好不好\n\n22\n00:07:28,556 --> 00:07:47,815\n謝謝委員主席再給我一分鐘就好要講到綠領人才的部分綠領工作我知道部長你之前有去參加一個跟104人力銀行合作提出綠領人才就業趨勢報告那我們也成立了近鄰綠領人才培育聯盟這個培育課程我目前給予高度的肯定可是我們來看一下我們跟國際趨勢的對接在聯合國國際勞工\n\n23\n00:07:51,879 --> 00:08:15,958\n組織裡面我們把保護生態系統視為是一個綠領工作很重要的內容跟定義可是在我們台灣的環境部培育課程裡面其實沒有提到這件事情那當然我知道很多環境部過往的同仁可能會認為生態這件事情是農業部的事情可是我剛要說目前在國際的趨勢如果是這樣台灣如果忽略了生態其實是非常可惜的\n\n24\n00:08:16,298 --> 00:08:29,608\n那尤其這幾年很多企業都在談ESG有人也開始談TNFD也就是自然相關財務揭露甚至生物多樣性也已經被永續評比機構納為評分項目我認為台灣在這件事情上不應該沒有這個進度跟相關的討論可不可以有機會在兩個月內給我們相關的規劃報告還是部長您認為我們剛剛所說的生態這個部分不應該納入我們國內的綠領人才規劃內容\n\n25\n00:08:44,259 --> 00:09:10,710\n包委員生態是我們有納入我們兩萬兩千人裡面是有生態的項目在裡面但是我知道這個領域真的在快速發展當中所以我們有請我們同仁是不是找生態的人因為我們這48小時是Basic的能夠額外Plus上去所以例如說12或是24小時加值的一個課程所以這個部分我們希望未來等到這個第一班開完之後後面到下半年能不能把別的Plus像生態這種把它加進來變成一個額外的課程\n\n26\n00:09:11,971 --> 00:09:20,577\n那我目前規劃兩個月內給我們相關的報告是可行的嗎?沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝陳培育委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3384\t32481\t好 謝謝主席 那有請環境部部長 謝謝有請彭部長陳委員好好 部長你好部長在上一次3月17號一樣是跟您質詢我們討論到關於兒少式空氣污染的高風險族群也相對敏感那當時我就有拜託您說需要政府提出更多的保護措施同時我們也希望有跨部會的工作小組那您的承諾呢讓我們辦公室非常順利的\n32861\t52351\t在4月9號我們已經邀請了環境部教育部衛福部還有專家學者一併召開內部的討論會議喔那這個討論會議上我們其實討論到非常多比較仔細的事情那也很感謝環境部的同仁在當天有一些很具體的共識讓我們後續在很多政策的推動上可以往下走\n52771\t62760\t第一個跟部長分享一下第一個是我們談到關於工業區周邊學校的劃設這件事情因為目前呢在我們所謂空氣品質維護區現在目前現行有91個空維區那9個在工業區10個在學校\n69085\t89240\t其他91個扣掉10個再扣掉9個其他都不在空污重災區這個我們日後再討論但是只有10個在學校這件事情呢我們也可以理解可能對於地方縣市政府來說他們的認定跟你們的認定標準不一樣或是他們的認定跟很多專家學者認為孩童是高風險高敏感這件事情的認知不一樣\n90040\t104913\t但有沒有機會我們多多增加工業區周遭學校的畫社這件事情可不可以讓環境部積極的跟地方政府來討論到底是在畫社上有什麼困難還是跟社區溝通有什麼困難部長你怎麼看這件事情\n105714\t120168\t謝謝委員能夠對這個議題主動來找我們第一個是我非常贊同委員的看法但是這個設定其實執行上是地方報決所以我們會可能要增加溝通的頻率然後一些方案讓他們願意來做所以這個部分我們會來積極來推動這個事情\n122691\t150917\t好那我們這邊其實也提出一個還蠻具體的建議因為地方上目前都在規劃通學步道這是為了確保孩子們行的安全如果要跟地方政府溝通他們覺得在這個議題上有困難其實我們比較具體的建議可以先結合地方政府的通學步道這件事情去想像也許他們就比較可以理解到底這件事情可以怎麼做那我想具體的方向我們比較希望環境部真的可以主動的行論地方政府問一下他們相關的進度或者是有什麼\n151497\t168204\t困難跟問題需要你們積極的討論或者是找協助專家學者來協助這個部分就拜託你們再進一步考量那也謝謝部長剛剛非常正向的回應第二個是關於控務法第85條我們談到違規如果對學校有影響的要從重處罰當時的從重的罰款是說加重0.1到0.5倍可是我們去調了這兩年的裁罰紀錄是零\n175347\t189927\t沒有從學校通報這邊來的那當時的困難我們聽到大氣司很明白告訴我們因為這個檢舉的主體必須是學校才會納入有所謂的學校受到影響可是部長你可以想像一個情境假設我們\n191128\t214240\t現在立法院這邊是一所學校我們旁邊的工廠失火了然後有這個空瓶的問題老師們第一時間做的應該是疏散孩子或者是尋求相關的幫助或是請家長趕快把孩子們帶回老師們想的第一件事一定不是打去環保局檢舉對不對可能是周邊的居民才有想到要去檢舉那如果學校沒有打這通檢舉電話對於地方的環保局他們的認定就是學校沒有受到影響\n215200\t225976\t那我不會說這是公務人員的問題我會說這是現行法規規範的問題導致於學校如果沒有打這一通電話我們就不會認定學校的空品有受到影響\n227376\t247510\t這件事情我認為其實我們可以透過條文的改善跟調整讓這件事情其實可以促成那但是我們並不是為了要處罰廠商而去做這件事情是我們希望在積極保護而上呼吸品質這件事情上我們有更積極的作為部長你覺得我這個建議我們可不可以往這邊去努力\n249271\t261658\t其實我們現在是針對即興的事件例如說隔壁失火會不會往我們這邊飄我們有一個預警的機制是通知學校當然委員提的建議很好未來是不是我們這個預警的機制\n263939\t278355\t如果通過學校的話加重裁罰我們可以來研議這個事情就是控訴法的部分修正是不是重重甚至剛剛委員說的這個處罰的比例飄到學校是不夠太輕的零點幾倍所以我們是不是再加重我們可以考慮\n279396\t305951\t加重的部分我其实现在还在讨论还在研究但是我觉得你刚刚讲就是如果它确实已经造成学校影响可是我们真的不必要要学校打一通电话才算数的话我们往这里演绎真的是好的方向谢谢部长那至于这些裁罚的金额也就是所谓的这个基金目前它的裁罚用途目前并没有放在所谓学校空瓶改善学童紧急保护疏散医药的部分有没有机会往这里去讨论跟演绎\n306651\t329046\t因為目前那個財劃法裡面這種罰款是到地方政府所以這個就變成地方政府願不願意給學校好 那沒關係我當然知道是地方政府所以我們也許來想一想怎麼跟地方政府溝通站在積極保護兒少學校空品這件事情上我們可以更有作為好 那接下來關於談到所謂有害空氣污染的部分\n329426\t356845\t目前它的監測數字雖然都有上網公開可是說實話那個公開的資料它其實是比較適合科學家閱讀就算很多科學家認為那個都已經簡化過了精簡過了但是對於很多住民來說其實不方便閱讀而且資料也不及時它對於一般人來說是沒有可靜性的那我們甚至也認為其實相關的資料如果有兒少版就更好了也就是兒少版跟一般人的閱讀版而不是現在我們認為已經科普化的版本\n357225\t379692\t那當時在跨部會的會議在我們辦公室召開那個內部的會議討論上我們很感謝大氣死友說會回去研議這件事情那我想這邊部長是不是也可以給我們一個承諾我們如何把這個資料可以更親民然後甚至有兒少版讓孩子知道說今天我可不可以出去打球今天我可不可以出去運動這個空品是不是適合我出去做戶外活動的\n381552\t403318\t我們來研議一下因為其實我也看環境部的網站並沒有針對小朋友的研究但是我們跟小朋友相關的那這個我們會來研究整個針對這個族群再提供一些服務出來那另外一個是我們會研議這個環境地圖把這個污染數據把它視覺化那委員講的能不能容易懂不是學科學的也可以懂這個我們會來努力\n403618\t422633\t好 那包含還有兒少的部分喔好 那最後再講一下我們當天還有提到目前這個有害空氣污染的部分只有其中有管道排放標準而不是空氣中的標準其實很難呈現可是我們那天在討論的時候其實就有人提到應該可以呈現每一根管道歷年來有沒有改善的數字比較這個有機會待會去研議嗎\n425635\t447836\t好這個我們回去研究一下因為不知道他這個數據存在應該是沒有問題沒問題就回去研議那我們辦公室目前規劃是在6月或7月希望可以召開第二次像這樣子的內部討論會議所以我們今天才這麼積極提出很多問題那有一些有進展有一些進展還需要一些時間我也希望在那之前我們希望有這些相關進度的報告好不好\n448556\t467815\t謝謝委員主席再給我一分鐘就好要講到綠領人才的部分綠領工作我知道部長你之前有去參加一個跟104人力銀行合作提出綠領人才就業趨勢報告那我們也成立了近鄰綠領人才培育聯盟這個培育課程我目前給予高度的肯定可是我們來看一下我們跟國際趨勢的對接在聯合國國際勞工\n471879\t495958\t組織裡面我們把保護生態系統視為是一個綠領工作很重要的內容跟定義可是在我們台灣的環境部培育課程裡面其實沒有提到這件事情那當然我知道很多環境部過往的同仁可能會認為生態這件事情是農業部的事情可是我剛要說目前在國際的趨勢如果是這樣台灣如果忽略了生態其實是非常可惜的\n496298\t509608\t那尤其這幾年很多企業都在談ESG有人也開始談TNFD也就是自然相關財務揭露甚至生物多樣性也已經被永續評比機構納為評分項目我認為台灣在這件事情上不應該沒有這個進度跟相關的討論可不可以有機會在兩個月內給我們相關的規劃報告還是部長您認為我們剛剛所說的生態這個部分不應該納入我們國內的綠領人才規劃內容\n524259\t550710\t包委員 生態是我們有納入我們兩萬兩千人裡面是有生態的項目在裡面但是我知道這個領域真的在快速發展當中所以我們有請我們同仁是不是找生態的人因為我們這48小時是Basic的能夠額外Plus上去所以例如說12或是24小時加值的一個課程所以這個部分我們希望未來等到這個第一班開完之後後面到下半年能不能把別的Plus像生態這種把它加進來變成一個額外的課程\n551971\t560577\t那我目前規劃兩個月內給我們相關的報告是可行的嗎?沒問題 謝謝委員好 謝謝部長 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培育委員的發言\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請環境部部長 謝謝有請彭部長陳委員好好 部長你好部長在上一次3月17號一樣是跟您質詢我們討論到關於兒少式空氣污染的高風險族群也相對敏感那當時我就有拜託您說需要政府提出更多的保護措施同時我們也希望有跨部會的工作小組那您的承諾呢讓我們辦公室非常順利的\n在4月9號我們已經邀請了環境部教育部衛福部還有專家學者一併召開內部的討論會議喔那這個討論會議上我們其實討論到非常多比較仔細的事情那也很感謝環境部的同仁在當天有一些很具體的共識讓我們後續在很多政策的推動上可以往下走\n第一個跟部長分享一下第一個是我們談到關於工業區周邊學校的劃設這件事情因為目前呢在我們所謂空氣品質維護區現在目前現行有91個空維區那9個在工業區10個在學校\n其他91個扣掉10個再扣掉9個其他都不在空污重災區這個我們日後再討論但是只有10個在學校這件事情呢我們也可以理解可能對於地方縣市政府來說他們的認定跟你們的認定標準不一樣或是他們的認定跟很多專家學者認為孩童是高風險高敏感這件事情的認知不一樣\n但有沒有機會我們多多增加工業區周遭學校的畫社這件事情可不可以讓環境部積極的跟地方政府來討論到底是在畫社上有什麼困難還是跟社區溝通有什麼困難部長你怎麼看這件事情\n謝謝委員能夠對這個議題主動來找我們第一個是我非常贊同委員的看法但是這個設定其實執行上是地方報決所以我們會可能要增加溝通的頻率然後一些方案讓他們願意來做所以這個部分我們會來積極來推動這個事情\n好那我們這邊其實也提出一個還蠻具體的建議因為地方上目前都在規劃通學步道這是為了確保孩子們行的安全如果要跟地方政府溝通他們覺得在這個議題上有困難其實我們比較具體的建議可以先結合地方政府的通學步道這件事情去想像也許他們就比較可以理解到底這件事情可以怎麼做那我想具體的方向我們比較希望環境部真的可以主動的行論地方政府問一下他們相關的進度或者是有什麼\n困難跟問題需要你們積極的討論或者是找協助專家學者來協助這個部分就拜託你們再進一步考量那也謝謝部長剛剛非常正向的回應第二個是關於控務法第85條我們談到違規如果對學校有影響的要從重處罰當時的從重的罰款是說加重0.1到0.5倍可是我們去調了這兩年的裁罰紀錄是零\n沒有從學校通報這邊來的那當時的困難我們聽到大氣司很明白告訴我們因為這個檢舉的主體必須是學校才會納入有所謂的學校受到影響可是部長你可以想像一個情境假設我們\n現在立法院這邊是一所學校我們旁邊的工廠失火了然後有這個空瓶的問題老師們第一時間做的應該是疏散孩子或者是尋求相關的幫助或是請家長趕快把孩子們帶回老師們想的第一件事一定不是打去環保局檢舉對不對可能是周邊的居民才有想到要去檢舉那如果學校沒有打這通檢舉電話對於地方的環保局他們的認定就是學校沒有受到影響\n那我不會說這是公務人員的問題我會說這是現行法規規範的問題導致於學校如果沒有打這一通電話我們就不會認定學校的空品有受到影響\n這件事情我認為其實我們可以透過條文的改善跟調整讓這件事情其實可以促成那但是我們並不是為了要處罰廠商而去做這件事情是我們希望在積極保護而上呼吸品質這件事情上我們有更積極的作為部長你覺得我這個建議我們可不可以往這邊去努力\n其實我們現在是針對即興的事件例如說隔壁失火會不會往我們這邊飄我們有一個預警的機制是通知學校當然委員提的建議很好未來是不是我們這個預警的機制\n如果通過學校的話加重裁罰我們可以來研議這個事情就是控訴法的部分修正是不是重重甚至剛剛委員說的這個處罰的比例飄到學校是不夠太輕的零點幾倍所以我們是不是再加重我們可以考慮\n加重的部分我其实现在还在讨论还在研究但是我觉得你刚刚讲就是如果它确实已经造成学校影响可是我们真的不必要要学校打一通电话才算数的话我们往这里演绎真的是好的方向谢谢部长那至于这些裁罚的金额也就是所谓的这个基金目前它的裁罚用途目前并没有放在所谓学校空瓶改善学童紧急保护疏散医药的部分有没有机会往这里去讨论跟演绎\n因為目前那個財劃法裡面這種罰款是到地方政府所以這個就變成地方政府願不願意給學校好 那沒關係我當然知道是地方政府所以我們也許來想一想怎麼跟地方政府溝通站在積極保護兒少學校空品這件事情上我們可以更有作為好 那接下來關於談到所謂有害空氣污染的部分\n目前它的監測數字雖然都有上網公開可是說實話那個公開的資料它其實是比較適合科學家閱讀就算很多科學家認為那個都已經簡化過了精簡過了但是對於很多住民來說其實不方便閱讀而且資料也不及時它對於一般人來說是沒有可靜性的那我們甚至也認為其實相關的資料如果有兒少版就更好了也就是兒少版跟一般人的閱讀版而不是現在我們認為已經科普化的版本\n那當時在跨部會的會議在我們辦公室召開那個內部的會議討論上我們很感謝大氣死友說會回去研議這件事情那我想這邊部長是不是也可以給我們一個承諾我們如何把這個資料可以更親民然後甚至有兒少版讓孩子知道說今天我可不可以出去打球今天我可不可以出去運動這個空品是不是適合我出去做戶外活動的\n我們來研議一下因為其實我也看環境部的網站並沒有針對小朋友的研究但是我們跟小朋友相關的那這個我們會來研究整個針對這個族群再提供一些服務出來那另外一個是我們會研議這個環境地圖把這個污染數據把它視覺化那委員講的能不能容易懂不是學科學的也可以懂這個我們會來努力\n好 那包含還有兒少的部分喔好 那最後再講一下我們當天還有提到目前這個有害空氣污染的部分只有其中有管道排放標準而不是空氣中的標準其實很難呈現可是我們那天在討論的時候其實就有人提到應該可以呈現每一根管道歷年來有沒有改善的數字比較這個有機會待會去研議嗎\n好這個我們回去研究一下因為不知道他這個數據存在應該是沒有問題沒問題就回去研議那我們辦公室目前規劃是在6月或7月希望可以召開第二次像這樣子的內部討論會議所以我們今天才這麼積極提出很多問題那有一些有進展有一些進展還需要一些時間我也希望在那之前我們希望有這些相關進度的報告好不好\n謝謝委員主席再給我一分鐘就好要講到綠領人才的部分綠領工作我知道部長你之前有去參加一個跟104人力銀行合作提出綠領人才就業趨勢報告那我們也成立了近鄰綠領人才培育聯盟這個培育課程我目前給予高度的肯定可是我們來看一下我們跟國際趨勢的對接在聯合國國際勞工\n組織裡面我們把保護生態系統視為是一個綠領工作很重要的內容跟定義可是在我們台灣的環境部培育課程裡面其實沒有提到這件事情那當然我知道很多環境部過往的同仁可能會認為生態這件事情是農業部的事情可是我剛要說目前在國際的趨勢如果是這樣台灣如果忽略了生態其實是非常可惜的\n那尤其這幾年很多企業都在談ESG有人也開始談TNFD也就是自然相關財務揭露甚至生物多樣性也已經被永續評比機構納為評分項目我認為台灣在這件事情上不應該沒有這個進度跟相關的討論可不可以有機會在兩個月內給我們相關的規劃報告還是部長您認為我們剛剛所說的生態這個部分不應該納入我們國內的綠領人才規劃內容\n包委員 生態是我們有納入我們兩萬兩千人裡面是有生態的項目在裡面但是我知道這個領域真的在快速發展當中所以我們有請我們同仁是不是找生態的人因為我們這48小時是Basic的能夠額外Plus上去所以例如說12或是24小時加值的一個課程所以這個部分我們希望未來等到這個第一班開完之後後面到下半年能不能把別的Plus像生態這種把它加進來變成一個額外的課程\n那我目前規劃兩個月內給我們相關的報告是可行的嗎?沒問題 謝謝委員好 謝謝部長 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培育委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.384 --> 00:32.481\n好謝謝主席那有請環境部部長謝謝有請彭部長陳委員好好部長你好部長在上一次3月17號一樣是跟您質詢我們討論到關於兒少式空氣污染的高風險族群也相對敏感那當時我就有拜託您說需要政府提出更多的保護措施同時我們也希望有跨部會的工作小組那您的承諾呢讓我們辦公室非常順利的\n\n00:32.861 --> 00:52.351\n在4月9號我們已經邀請了環境部教育部衛福部還有專家學者一併召開內部的討論會議喔那這個討論會議上我們其實討論到非常多比較仔細的事情那也很感謝環境部的同仁在當天有一些很具體的共識讓我們後續在很多政策的推動上可以往下走\n\n00:52.771 --> 01:02.760\n第一個跟部長分享一下第一個是我們談到關於工業區周邊學校的劃設這件事情因為目前呢在我們所謂空氣品質維護區現在目前現行有91個空維區那9個在工業區10個在學校\n\n01:09.085 --> 01:29.240\n其他91個扣掉10個再扣掉9個其他都不在空污重災區這個我們日後再討論但是只有10個在學校這件事情呢我們也可以理解可能對於地方縣市政府來說他們的認定跟你們的認定標準不一樣或是他們的認定跟很多專家學者認為孩童是高風險高敏感這件事情的認知不一樣\n\n01:30.040 --> 01:44.913\n但有沒有機會我們多多增加工業區周遭學校的畫社這件事情可不可以讓環境部積極的跟地方政府來討論到底是在畫社上有什麼困難還是跟社區溝通有什麼困難部長你怎麼看這件事情\n\n01:45.714 --> 02:00.168\n謝謝委員能夠對這個議題主動來找我們第一個是我非常贊同委員的看法但是這個設定其實執行上是地方報決所以我們會可能要增加溝通的頻率然後一些方案讓他們願意來做所以這個部分我們會來積極來推動這個事情\n\n02:02.691 --> 02:30.917\n好那我們這邊其實也提出一個還蠻具體的建議因為地方上目前都在規劃通學步道這是為了確保孩子們行的安全如果要跟地方政府溝通他們覺得在這個議題上有困難其實我們比較具體的建議可以先結合地方政府的通學步道這件事情去想像也許他們就比較可以理解到底這件事情可以怎麼做那我想具體的方向我們比較希望環境部真的可以主動的行論地方政府問一下他們相關的進度或者是有什麼\n\n02:31.497 --> 02:48.204\n困難跟問題需要你們積極的討論或者是找協助專家學者來協助這個部分就拜託你們再進一步考量那也謝謝部長剛剛非常正向的回應第二個是關於控務法第85條我們談到違規如果對學校有影響的要從重處罰當時的從重的罰款是說加重0.1到0.5倍可是我們去調了這兩年的裁罰紀錄是零\n\n02:55.347 --> 03:09.927\n沒有從學校通報這邊來的那當時的困難我們聽到大氣司很明白告訴我們因為這個檢舉的主體必須是學校才會納入有所謂的學校受到影響可是部長你可以想像一個情境假設我們\n\n03:11.128 --> 03:34.240\n現在立法院這邊是一所學校我們旁邊的工廠失火了然後有這個空瓶的問題老師們第一時間做的應該是疏散孩子或者是尋求相關的幫助或是請家長趕快把孩子們帶回老師們想的第一件事一定不是打去環保局檢舉對不對可能是周邊的居民才有想到要去檢舉那如果學校沒有打這通檢舉電話對於地方的環保局他們的認定就是學校沒有受到影響\n\n03:35.200 --> 03:45.976\n那我不會說這是公務人員的問題我會說這是現行法規規範的問題導致於學校如果沒有打這一通電話我們就不會認定學校的空品有受到影響\n\n03:47.376 --> 04:07.510\n這件事情我認為其實我們可以透過條文的改善跟調整讓這件事情其實可以促成那但是我們並不是為了要處罰廠商而去做這件事情是我們希望在積極保護而上呼吸品質這件事情上我們有更積極的作為部長你覺得我這個建議我們可不可以往這邊去努力\n\n04:09.271 --> 04:21.658\n其實我們現在是針對即興的事件例如說隔壁失火會不會往我們這邊飄我們有一個預警的機制是通知學校當然委員提的建議很好未來是不是我們這個預警的機制\n\n04:23.939 --> 04:38.355\n如果通過學校的話加重裁罰我們可以來研議這個事情就是控訴法的部分修正是不是重重甚至剛剛委員說的這個處罰的比例飄到學校是不夠太輕的零點幾倍所以我們是不是再加重我們可以考慮\n\n04:39.396 --> 05:05.951\n加重的部分我其实现在还在讨论还在研究但是我觉得你刚刚讲就是如果它确实已经造成学校影响可是我们真的不必要要学校打一通电话才算数的话我们往这里演绎真的是好的方向谢谢部长那至于这些裁罚的金额也就是所谓的这个基金目前它的裁罚用途目前并没有放在所谓学校空瓶改善学童紧急保护疏散医药的部分有没有机会往这里去讨论跟演绎\n\n05:06.651 --> 05:29.046\n因為目前那個財劃法裡面這種罰款是到地方政府所以這個就變成地方政府願不願意給學校好那沒關係我當然知道是地方政府所以我們也許來想一想怎麼跟地方政府溝通站在積極保護兒少學校空品這件事情上我們可以更有作為好那接下來關於談到所謂有害空氣污染的部分\n\n05:29.426 --> 05:56.845\n目前它的監測數字雖然都有上網公開可是說實話那個公開的資料它其實是比較適合科學家閱讀就算很多科學家認為那個都已經簡化過了精簡過了但是對於很多住民來說其實不方便閱讀而且資料也不及時它對於一般人來說是沒有可靜性的那我們甚至也認為其實相關的資料如果有兒少版就更好了也就是兒少版跟一般人的閱讀版而不是現在我們認為已經科普化的版本\n\n05:57.225 --> 06:19.692\n那當時在跨部會的會議在我們辦公室召開那個內部的會議討論上我們很感謝大氣死友說會回去研議這件事情那我想這邊部長是不是也可以給我們一個承諾我們如何把這個資料可以更親民然後甚至有兒少版讓孩子知道說今天我可不可以出去打球今天我可不可以出去運動這個空品是不是適合我出去做戶外活動的\n\n06:21.552 --> 06:43.318\n我們來研議一下因為其實我也看環境部的網站並沒有針對小朋友的研究但是我們跟小朋友相關的那這個我們會來研究整個針對這個族群再提供一些服務出來那另外一個是我們會研議這個環境地圖把這個污染數據把它視覺化那委員講的能不能容易懂不是學科學的也可以懂這個我們會來努力\n\n06:43.618 --> 07:02.633\n好那包含還有兒少的部分喔好那最後再講一下我們當天還有提到目前這個有害空氣污染的部分只有其中有管道排放標準而不是空氣中的標準其實很難呈現可是我們那天在討論的時候其實就有人提到應該可以呈現每一根管道歷年來有沒有改善的數字比較這個有機會待會去研議嗎\n\n07:05.635 --> 07:27.836\n好這個我們回去研究一下因為不知道他這個數據存在應該是沒有問題沒問題就回去研議那我們辦公室目前規劃是在6月或7月希望可以召開第二次像這樣子的內部討論會議所以我們今天才這麼積極提出很多問題那有一些有進展有一些進展還需要一些時間我也希望在那之前我們希望有這些相關進度的報告好不好\n\n07:28.556 --> 07:47.815\n謝謝委員主席再給我一分鐘就好要講到綠領人才的部分綠領工作我知道部長你之前有去參加一個跟104人力銀行合作提出綠領人才就業趨勢報告那我們也成立了近鄰綠領人才培育聯盟這個培育課程我目前給予高度的肯定可是我們來看一下我們跟國際趨勢的對接在聯合國國際勞工\n\n07:51.879 --> 08:15.958\n組織裡面我們把保護生態系統視為是一個綠領工作很重要的內容跟定義可是在我們台灣的環境部培育課程裡面其實沒有提到這件事情那當然我知道很多環境部過往的同仁可能會認為生態這件事情是農業部的事情可是我剛要說目前在國際的趨勢如果是這樣台灣如果忽略了生態其實是非常可惜的\n\n08:16.298 --> 08:29.608\n那尤其這幾年很多企業都在談ESG有人也開始談TNFD也就是自然相關財務揭露甚至生物多樣性也已經被永續評比機構納為評分項目我認為台灣在這件事情上不應該沒有這個進度跟相關的討論可不可以有機會在兩個月內給我們相關的規劃報告還是部長您認為我們剛剛所說的生態這個部分不應該納入我們國內的綠領人才規劃內容\n\n08:44.259 --> 09:10.710\n包委員生態是我們有納入我們兩萬兩千人裡面是有生態的項目在裡面但是我知道這個領域真的在快速發展當中所以我們有請我們同仁是不是找生態的人因為我們這48小時是Basic的能夠額外Plus上去所以例如說12或是24小時加值的一個課程所以這個部分我們希望未來等到這個第一班開完之後後面到下半年能不能把別的Plus像生態這種把它加進來變成一個額外的課程\n\n09:11.971 --> 09:20.577\n那我目前規劃兩個月內給我們相關的報告是可行的嗎?沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝陳培育委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.384,"end":32.481,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請環境部部長 謝謝有請彭部長陳委員好好 部長你好部長在上一次3月17號一樣是跟您質詢我們討論到關於兒少式空氣污染的高風險族群也相對敏感那當時我就有拜託您說需要政府提出更多的保護措施同時我們也希望有跨部會的工作小組那您的承諾呢讓我們辦公室非常順利的"},{"start":32.861,"end":52.351,"text":"在4月9號我們已經邀請了環境部教育部衛福部還有專家學者一併召開內部的討論會議喔那這個討論會議上我們其實討論到非常多比較仔細的事情那也很感謝環境部的同仁在當天有一些很具體的共識讓我們後續在很多政策的推動上可以往下走"},{"start":52.771,"end":62.76,"text":"第一個跟部長分享一下第一個是我們談到關於工業區周邊學校的劃設這件事情因為目前呢在我們所謂空氣品質維護區現在目前現行有91個空維區那9個在工業區10個在學校"},{"start":69.085,"end":89.24,"text":"其他91個扣掉10個再扣掉9個其他都不在空污重災區這個我們日後再討論但是只有10個在學校這件事情呢我們也可以理解可能對於地方縣市政府來說他們的認定跟你們的認定標準不一樣或是他們的認定跟很多專家學者認為孩童是高風險高敏感這件事情的認知不一樣"},{"start":90.04,"end":104.913,"text":"但有沒有機會我們多多增加工業區周遭學校的畫社這件事情可不可以讓環境部積極的跟地方政府來討論到底是在畫社上有什麼困難還是跟社區溝通有什麼困難部長你怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":105.714,"end":120.168,"text":"謝謝委員能夠對這個議題主動來找我們第一個是我非常贊同委員的看法但是這個設定其實執行上是地方報決所以我們會可能要增加溝通的頻率然後一些方案讓他們願意來做所以這個部分我們會來積極來推動這個事情"},{"start":122.691,"end":150.917,"text":"好那我們這邊其實也提出一個還蠻具體的建議因為地方上目前都在規劃通學步道這是為了確保孩子們行的安全如果要跟地方政府溝通他們覺得在這個議題上有困難其實我們比較具體的建議可以先結合地方政府的通學步道這件事情去想像也許他們就比較可以理解到底這件事情可以怎麼做那我想具體的方向我們比較希望環境部真的可以主動的行論地方政府問一下他們相關的進度或者是有什麼"},{"start":151.497,"end":168.204,"text":"困難跟問題需要你們積極的討論或者是找協助專家學者來協助這個部分就拜託你們再進一步考量那也謝謝部長剛剛非常正向的回應第二個是關於控務法第85條我們談到違規如果對學校有影響的要從重處罰當時的從重的罰款是說加重0.1到0.5倍可是我們去調了這兩年的裁罰紀錄是零"},{"start":175.347,"end":189.927,"text":"沒有從學校通報這邊來的那當時的困難我們聽到大氣司很明白告訴我們因為這個檢舉的主體必須是學校才會納入有所謂的學校受到影響可是部長你可以想像一個情境假設我們"},{"start":191.128,"end":214.24,"text":"現在立法院這邊是一所學校我們旁邊的工廠失火了然後有這個空瓶的問題老師們第一時間做的應該是疏散孩子或者是尋求相關的幫助或是請家長趕快把孩子們帶回老師們想的第一件事一定不是打去環保局檢舉對不對可能是周邊的居民才有想到要去檢舉那如果學校沒有打這通檢舉電話對於地方的環保局他們的認定就是學校沒有受到影響"},{"start":215.2,"end":225.976,"text":"那我不會說這是公務人員的問題我會說這是現行法規規範的問題導致於學校如果沒有打這一通電話我們就不會認定學校的空品有受到影響"},{"start":227.376,"end":247.51,"text":"這件事情我認為其實我們可以透過條文的改善跟調整讓這件事情其實可以促成那但是我們並不是為了要處罰廠商而去做這件事情是我們希望在積極保護而上呼吸品質這件事情上我們有更積極的作為部長你覺得我這個建議我們可不可以往這邊去努力"},{"start":249.271,"end":261.658,"text":"其實我們現在是針對即興的事件例如說隔壁失火會不會往我們這邊飄我們有一個預警的機制是通知學校當然委員提的建議很好未來是不是我們這個預警的機制"},{"start":263.939,"end":278.355,"text":"如果通過學校的話加重裁罰我們可以來研議這個事情就是控訴法的部分修正是不是重重甚至剛剛委員說的這個處罰的比例飄到學校是不夠太輕的零點幾倍所以我們是不是再加重我們可以考慮"},{"start":279.396,"end":305.951,"text":"加重的部分我其实现在还在讨论还在研究但是我觉得你刚刚讲就是如果它确实已经造成学校影响可是我们真的不必要要学校打一通电话才算数的话我们往这里演绎真的是好的方向谢谢部长那至于这些裁罚的金额也就是所谓的这个基金目前它的裁罚用途目前并没有放在所谓学校空瓶改善学童紧急保护疏散医药的部分有没有机会往这里去讨论跟演绎"},{"start":306.651,"end":329.046,"text":"因為目前那個財劃法裡面這種罰款是到地方政府所以這個就變成地方政府願不願意給學校好 那沒關係我當然知道是地方政府所以我們也許來想一想怎麼跟地方政府溝通站在積極保護兒少學校空品這件事情上我們可以更有作為好 那接下來關於談到所謂有害空氣污染的部分"},{"start":329.426,"end":356.845,"text":"目前它的監測數字雖然都有上網公開可是說實話那個公開的資料它其實是比較適合科學家閱讀就算很多科學家認為那個都已經簡化過了精簡過了但是對於很多住民來說其實不方便閱讀而且資料也不及時它對於一般人來說是沒有可靜性的那我們甚至也認為其實相關的資料如果有兒少版就更好了也就是兒少版跟一般人的閱讀版而不是現在我們認為已經科普化的版本"},{"start":357.225,"end":379.692,"text":"那當時在跨部會的會議在我們辦公室召開那個內部的會議討論上我們很感謝大氣死友說會回去研議這件事情那我想這邊部長是不是也可以給我們一個承諾我們如何把這個資料可以更親民然後甚至有兒少版讓孩子知道說今天我可不可以出去打球今天我可不可以出去運動這個空品是不是適合我出去做戶外活動的"},{"start":381.552,"end":403.318,"text":"我們來研議一下因為其實我也看環境部的網站並沒有針對小朋友的研究但是我們跟小朋友相關的那這個我們會來研究整個針對這個族群再提供一些服務出來那另外一個是我們會研議這個環境地圖把這個污染數據把它視覺化那委員講的能不能容易懂不是學科學的也可以懂這個我們會來努力"},{"start":403.618,"end":422.633,"text":"好 那包含還有兒少的部分喔好 那最後再講一下我們當天還有提到目前這個有害空氣污染的部分只有其中有管道排放標準而不是空氣中的標準其實很難呈現可是我們那天在討論的時候其實就有人提到應該可以呈現每一根管道歷年來有沒有改善的數字比較這個有機會待會去研議嗎"},{"start":425.635,"end":447.836,"text":"好這個我們回去研究一下因為不知道他這個數據存在應該是沒有問題沒問題就回去研議那我們辦公室目前規劃是在6月或7月希望可以召開第二次像這樣子的內部討論會議所以我們今天才這麼積極提出很多問題那有一些有進展有一些進展還需要一些時間我也希望在那之前我們希望有這些相關進度的報告好不好"},{"start":448.556,"end":467.815,"text":"謝謝委員主席再給我一分鐘就好要講到綠領人才的部分綠領工作我知道部長你之前有去參加一個跟104人力銀行合作提出綠領人才就業趨勢報告那我們也成立了近鄰綠領人才培育聯盟這個培育課程我目前給予高度的肯定可是我們來看一下我們跟國際趨勢的對接在聯合國國際勞工"},{"start":471.879,"end":495.958,"text":"組織裡面我們把保護生態系統視為是一個綠領工作很重要的內容跟定義可是在我們台灣的環境部培育課程裡面其實沒有提到這件事情那當然我知道很多環境部過往的同仁可能會認為生態這件事情是農業部的事情可是我剛要說目前在國際的趨勢如果是這樣台灣如果忽略了生態其實是非常可惜的"},{"start":496.298,"end":509.608,"text":"那尤其這幾年很多企業都在談ESG有人也開始談TNFD也就是自然相關財務揭露甚至生物多樣性也已經被永續評比機構納為評分項目我認為台灣在這件事情上不應該沒有這個進度跟相關的討論可不可以有機會在兩個月內給我們相關的規劃報告還是部長您認為我們剛剛所說的生態這個部分不應該納入我們國內的綠領人才規劃內容"},{"start":524.259,"end":550.71,"text":"包委員 生態是我們有納入我們兩萬兩千人裡面是有生態的項目在裡面但是我知道這個領域真的在快速發展當中所以我們有請我們同仁是不是找生態的人因為我們這48小時是Basic的能夠額外Plus上去所以例如說12或是24小時加值的一個課程所以這個部分我們希望未來等到這個第一班開完之後後面到下半年能不能把別的Plus像生態這種把它加進來變成一個額外的課程"},{"start":551.971,"end":560.577,"text":"那我目前規劃兩個月內給我們相關的報告是可行的嗎?沒問題 謝謝委員好 謝謝部長 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培育委員的發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":925,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時32分）謝謝主席，有請環境部部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員好！"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，你好！部長，在上一次（3月17日）一樣是跟您質詢，我們討論到關於兒少是空氣污染的高風險族群，他們也相對敏感，當時我就有拜託您需要政府提出更多的保護措施，同時我們也希望有跨部會的工作小組。您的承諾讓我們辦公室非常順利的在4月9日邀請了環境部、教育部、衛福部，還有專家學者，一併召開內部的討論會議，這個討論會議上，我們其實討論到非常多比較仔細的事情，也很感謝環境部的同仁在當天有一些很具體的共識，讓我們後續在很多政策的推動上可以往下走。","跟部長分享一下，第一個是我們談到關於工業區周邊學校的劃設這件事情，所謂的空氣品質維護區，現行有91個空維區，9個在工業區，10個在學校，91個扣掉10個，再扣掉9個，其他都不在空污重災區，這個我們日後再討論；只有10個在學校這件事情我們也可以理解，可能對於地方縣市政府來說，他們的認定跟你們的認定標準不一樣，或是他們的認定跟很多專家學者認為孩童是高風險、高敏感這件事情的認知不一樣，但有沒有機會我們多多增加工業區周遭學校的劃設，這件事情可不可以讓環境部積極的跟地方政府來討論，到底是在劃設上有什麼困難，還是跟社區溝通有什麼困難？部長，你怎麼看這件事情？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員能夠對這個議題主動來找我們。第一個是我非常贊同委員的看法，但是這個設定其實執行上是地方環保局……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，沒錯、沒錯、沒錯。"],["彭部長啓明：所以我們可能要增加溝通的頻率，然後一些方案讓他們願意來做，我們會來積極推動這個事情。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們其實也提出一個還滿具體的建議，因為地方上目前都在規劃通學步道，這是為了確保孩子們行的安全，如果跟地方政府溝通，他們覺得在這個議題上有困難，其實我們比較具體的建議可以先結合地方政府的通學步道這件事情去想像，也許他們就比較可以理解到底這件事情可以怎麼做。具體的方向是我們比較希望環境部真的可以主動行文地方政府，問一下他們相關的進度，或者是有什麼困難、問題需要你們積極的討論或者是找專家、學者來協助。這個部分就拜託你們再進一步考量……"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：也謝謝部長剛剛非常正向的回應。第二個是關於空污法第八十五條，我們談到違規如果對學校有影響的，要從重處罰。當時從重的罰款是加重0.1到0.5倍，可是我們去調了這2年的裁罰紀錄，是0，沒有從學校通報來的。當時的困難我們聽到大氣司很明白告訴我們，因為這個檢舉的主體必須是學校，才會納入所謂的學校有受到影響。部長，可是你可以想像一個情境，假設現在立法院這邊是一所學校，我們旁邊的工廠失火了，有空品的問題，老師們第一時間做的應該是疏散孩子或者是尋求相關的幫助，或是請家長趕快把孩子們帶回，老師們想的第一件事一定不是打去環保局檢舉，對不對？可能是周邊的居民才有想到要去檢舉，如果學校沒有打這通檢舉電話，地方環保局的認定就是學校沒有受到影響。我不會說這是公務人員的問題，會說這是現行法規規範的問題，導致於學校如果沒有打這一通電話，我們就不會認定學校的空品有受到影響，這件事情我認為其實可以透過條文的改善及調整促成，但是我們並不是為了要處罰廠商而去做這件事情，而是希望在積極保護兒少呼吸品質這件事情上有更積極的作為。部長，就我這個建議，你覺得我們可不可以往這邊去努力？"],["彭部長啓明：可以，謝謝委員。其實我們現在是針對急性的事件，例如隔壁失火，會不會往我們這邊飄，我們有一個預警的機制是通知學校，當然委員提的建議很好，未來是不是如果通過學校的話，這個預警的機制順道加重裁罰，我們可以來研議這個事情，就是空污法的部分是不是修正從重，甚至剛剛委員說的，飄到學校的這個處罰比例是不是不夠、太輕了，僅零點幾倍，是不是再加重，這些我們可以考慮。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個加重的部分，我其實現在還在討論、還在研究，但是我覺得你剛剛講的，如果它確實已經造成學校的影響，我們真的不必要要學校打一通電話才算數，所以我們往這裡研議真的是一個好的方向，謝謝部長。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：至於這些裁罰的金額，也就是所謂的基金，目前它的用途並沒有放在所謂學校空品改善、學童緊急保護、疏散、醫療的部分，有沒有機會往這裡去討論及研議？"],["彭部長啓明：因為目前財劃法裡面這種罰款是到地方政府，所以這個就變成地方政府願不願意給學校的這個問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒關係，我當然知道是地方政府，所以我們也許來想一想，怎麼跟地方政府溝通，站在積極保護兒少學校空品這件事情上，我們可以更有作為。","接下來關於談到所謂有害空氣污染的部分，目前它的監測數值雖然都有上網公開，可是那個公開的資料其實是比較適合科學家閱讀，就算很多科學家認為那個都已經簡化過了、精簡過了，但是對於很多住民來說，其實不方便閱讀，資料也不即時，它對於一般人來說是沒有可近性的，我們甚至也認為，相關的資料如果有兒少版就更好了，也就是兒少版與一般人的閱讀版，而不是現在我們認為已經科普化的版本。當時在我們辦公室召開的跨部會內部討論會議上，我們很感謝大氣司有說回去會研議這件事情，我想部長是不是也可以給我們一個承諾，我們如何讓這個資料可以更親民，甚至有兒少版，讓孩子知道今天他可不可以出去打球、今天他可不可以出去運動、這個空品是不是適合他出去做戶外活動的。"],["彭部長啓明：好，這個我們再研議一下，因為其實我也看到環境部的網站並沒有針對小朋友的研究，但是我們跟小朋友是有相關的，我們會來研究，針對這個族群，再多提供一些服務出來。另外一個是我們會研議環境地圖，把這個污染數據視覺化，像委員講的，能夠容易懂，讓不是學科學的也可以懂，這個我們會來努力。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，還有包含兒少的部分。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：最後再講一下，我們當天還有提到目前有害空氣污染的部分只有管道排放標準，而不是空氣中的標準，這個其實很難呈現，可是我們那天在討論的時候，就有人提到，應該可以呈現每一根管道歷年來有沒有改善的數字比較，這個有機會帶回去研議嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，這個我們回去研究一下，應該是沒有問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒關係，就回去研議。我們辦公室目前規劃是在6月或7月希望可以召開第二次像這樣子的內部討論會議，所以我們今天才這麼積極提出很多問題，有一些有進展，有一些進展還需要一些時間，在這之前，我們也希望有這些相關進度的報告，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：主席，再給我1分鐘就好。部長，要講到綠領人才的部分，綠領工作，我知道部長之前有跟104人力銀行合作提出綠領人才就業趨勢報告，我們也成立了淨零綠領人才培育聯盟，這個培育課程我目前給予高度的肯定，可是我們來看一下我們跟國際趨勢的對接，聯合國國際勞工組織把保護生態系統視為是一個綠領工作很重要的內容跟定義，可是在臺灣環境部的培育課程裡其實沒有提到這件事情，當然我知道過往很多環境部的同仁可能會認為生態這件事情是農業部的事情，可是我剛剛說，目前國際的趨勢如果是這樣，臺灣如果忽略了生態其實是非常可惜的，尤其這幾年很多企業都在談ESG，有人也開始談TNFD（自然相關財務揭露），甚至生物多樣性也已經被永續評比機構納為評分項目，我認為臺灣在這件事情上不應該沒有進度跟相關的討論，可不可以有機會在兩個月內給我們相關的規劃報告？還是部長您認為我們剛剛所說的生態這個部分不應該納入國內綠領人才的規劃內容？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，生態我們有納入，我們2萬2,000人裡面是有生態的項目在裡面，但是我知道這個領域真的在快速發展當中，因為我們這48小時是basic的，所以我們有請我們同仁是不是找生態的人能夠額外plus上去，例如12小時或是24小時加值的課程，所以這個部分我們希望未來等到第一班開完之後，後面到下半年能不能把別的像生態這種plus的加進來，把它變成一個額外的課程。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我目前規劃兩個月內給我們相關的報告是可行的嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員的發言。","接下來請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}