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\"text\": \"我們在準備當中那我問一下就是因為還是會有一些產業受到衝擊對不對那碳費會不會緩增報告委因為目前碳費真的說得很少啦我舉例像中鋼一年3600億的營業額如果按照我們估計它碳費大概只要繳3億多所以1%這個會不會痛當然1%是痛啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 275.211, \"end\": 275.391, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 275.391, \"end\": 275.591, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 275.591, \"end\": 276.032, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 276.032, \"end\": 276.152, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 276.152, \"end\": 276.272, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 276.272, \"end\": 276.392, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 276.392, \"end\": 276.572, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 276.572, \"end\": 276.792, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 276.792, \"end\": 276.932, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 276.932, \"end\": 278.293, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 278.293, 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\"海\", \"start\": 592.746, \"end\": 592.927, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"洋\", \"start\": 592.927, \"end\": 593.227, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 593.227, \"end\": 593.427, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 593.427, \"end\": 593.567, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 593.567, \"end\": 593.587, \"score\": 0.005}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,018 --> 00:00:34,119\n好謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長有請彭部長姚委員好部長好部長全世界大概有超過200個國家共同簽署了巴黎氣候協定那從2016年就生效了目標是在2100年前可以將全球均溫控制在上升幅度大概1.5\n\n2\n00:00:35,760 --> 00:01:03,847\n五度那協議中也也有承諾就是很重要的一個氣候融資因為這是一個全球性的問題所以可能有一些比較比較貧窮的國家必須要有融資的問題才可以協助貧窮國家適應氣候變遷並且讓他轉向使用再生能源那美國\n\n3\n00:01:06,179 --> 00:01:26,414\n這個算是第二次退出巴黎氣候協定我想要請問一下部長因為他第一次是因為協定的規定所以他2017年就宣布2020年才正式退出第一次退出的時候對於我國\n\n4\n00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:49,212\n有沒有產生什麼影響報告委員那個時候其實減碳還正式準備要啟動當中所以我們那時候其實減碳也才剛要開始大概都是平的沒有什麼減碳的成果所以現在全世界要減碳大概都是過去這五年當中減得特別有效果那也就是說第二次\n\n5\n00:01:50,242 --> 00:01:57,282\n現在退出宣佈退出什麼時候生效明年1月生效明年1月就生效明年1月生效\n\n6\n00:02:00,421 --> 00:02:21,517\n看起來是會不會對我們環境部推動淨零碳排的政策會有什麼阻力報告委員因為政府是對一個大的方針他會不會對全球有影響一定會有影響但是其實我們減碳其實也要看供應鏈例如說我會看蘋果或是我們的伺服器的組裝\n\n7\n00:02:22,338 --> 00:02:46,832\n他會不會那些大廠影響到他減他的目標那目前雖然聯邦政府美國聯邦政府有改了可是下面基本上沒有一個地方改而且很多的州他還是維持原有的建立目標所以目前我們一直在觀察當中這個影響會有多大而且全世界還沒有一個國家說我要調整我的目標所以目前我們還是審慎樂觀就是就是我我我我\n\n8\n00:02:48,453 --> 00:03:02,526\n我覺得部長這樣子的回答好像還蠻正確的,就是說全球性的一個方向在走,美國縱使退出也不大會影響,是這樣子嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:05,189 --> 00:03:27,266\n因為美國大概佔了現在大概20幾%左右的排碳量那當然最大的是中國那當然啦中國的減碳會不會受到美國的這個影響整個貿易壁壘的影響這個還有待觀察但是這個我們就是一直在關切例如說綠色產業例如說綠能或是汽油科技的供應鏈會不會斷鏈這個是我們最關心的如果被斷鏈那減碳真的會有影響對我\n\n10\n00:03:32,580 --> 00:03:41,154\n對就這樣子問好了就是說會不會減少因為供應鏈的問題嘛那美國退出了會不會減少企業投資減碳技術的誘因\n\n11\n00:03:44,326 --> 00:04:07,151\n那環境部這邊怎麼確保台灣的綠色轉型進程會可以...報告委員因為美國的這個他們的銀行的確最近有退出整個國際的淨領的金融的相關的機構沒有再倡議了美國幾個大銀行因為他們要表態這個會影響到全球部分的綠色投資的資金的位移\n\n12\n00:04:07,711 --> 00:04:34,170\n我們一直在關注那我們台灣目前其實整個趨勢因為我們台灣要賣東西不是只有美國還有別的地方所以基本上我們到目前為止我們也主動的訪問很多金融機構等等大家當然大家都在看大家都在等但是我目前的共識是我們現在暫時不用改變但是如果真的全世界做出一些改變我們一定會滾動式的調整也就是我們必須要先做好一切的準備\n\n13\n00:04:35,211 --> 00:04:59,665\n我們在準備當中那我問一下就是因為還是會有一些產業受到衝擊對不對那碳費會不會緩增報告委因為目前碳費真的說得很少啦我舉例像中鋼一年3600億的營業額如果按照我們估計它碳費大概只要繳3億多所以1%這個會不會痛當然1%是痛啦\n\n14\n00:05:03,347 --> 00:05:17,635\n還OK啦這個全世界大概都會收到4、5%以上的幅度啦那所以目前會有一點點壓力但是就又不要給大家馬上變成負債的一個結果這個是我們的期待啦\n\n15\n00:05:18,826 --> 00:05:46,459\n所以我們會不會延長徵收碳費的輔導期目前我們第一個是說碳費的時間不會變這個目前這是我們的態度那第二個是不是在某方面的今年1月要開始算是算明年5月31號繳所以現在不是現在要從企業身上拿錢出來是明年5月31號所以我們還有很充裕的時間做出最好的判斷\n\n16\n00:05:48,305 --> 00:06:13,613\n因為歐盟的碳冰箭的調整機制也有可能會延後一年實施鵝豹圍沒有延後它還是明年1月1號開始實施但是是2027年就後年2月開始去買憑證就有點像是我們今年開始做明年要繳錢一樣所以它並不是延後沒有延後沒有延後\n\n17\n00:06:19,724 --> 00:06:44,958\n我最後問一個問題就是我們室內空氣品質的品質管理法大概從2011年就公布了大概有1600處是環境部公告的室內空品納管場所\n\n18\n00:06:46,821 --> 00:06:56,145\n我這邊有環境部所提的資料是近兩年來違反的裁罰數字零這個是因為大家做得好還是我們檢查裁罰的人力的問題\n\n19\n00:07:01,127 --> 00:07:20,106\n其實最主要以前的裁罰幾件大概都是沒有涉專責人員像最近那個拉拉破南港那個他就是剛成立沒有涉專責人員所以理論上他可能就會被裁罰了所以類似這樣的東西是比較多但是因為我們通常檢測我們也在跟同事講到有沒有辦法\n\n20\n00:07:21,207 --> 00:07:38,284\n檢討一下檢測的方法因為目前檢測是會有請這個外面的顧問公司去檢那通常有時候第一次檢不過可能第二次準備好了就檢過了所以這個我們也在思考說有沒有更好的方法有沒有自動連續的儀器來去做取代現在的神功因為那個要兩三萬塊啦\n\n21\n00:07:39,765 --> 00:08:05,310\n對當然法律立法的目的不在裁罰啦可是呢可是假如說假如說是真的不應該裁罰所以沒有裁罰這個是好的可是假如是因為其他我們的人力或者是其他的種種因素沒有裁罰這個說一個法已經公布了近兩年裁罰數是零這個還滿\n\n22\n00:08:07,850 --> 00:08:30,978\n還蠻值得討論看看問題到底在哪裡的其實目前到現在為止49件啦那至於說其實113年也有3件啦那去年是應該是去年是去年3件啦然後前年是1件啦還是有大概都罰罰大概5萬一個是5萬加起來是5萬塊其實他的罰則沒有很重\n\n23\n00:08:31,718 --> 00:08:53,900\n沒有很重那我們會來再檢討一下反正就是我們就是還是我還是要講就是只有法律並沒有辦法完成很多事情這個就土法不足以自行所以還是必須要努力的去執行法律這個才是立法的主要目的最後我還是講一下剛剛\n\n24\n00:08:55,521 --> 00:09:08,270\n陳佩玉議員大概也有講到就是中國海費的問題希望部裡面這邊假如有足夠的經費或者是我們想辦法協助三個離島縣看怎麼\n\n25\n00:09:11,952 --> 00:09:34,679\n怎麼讓三個領導線的海洋可以更乾淨一點讓海灘可以少一點中國漂過來的垃圾這個我們從源頭管理是不可能啦我們只能不停止的淨灘然後打撈這個真的是一件非常\n\n26\n00:09:36,059 --> 00:09:53,587\n讓你厭煩的事情希望部裡面這邊可以主動跟三個地道縣看有沒有什麼資源可以提供給金門澎湖馬祖的縣政府讓地方來把海洋清一清\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6018\t34119\t好 謝謝主席 主席請一下彭部長有請彭部長姚委員好 部長好部長 全世界大概有超過200個國家共同簽署了巴黎氣候協定那從2016年就生效了目標是在2100年前可以將全球均溫控制在上升幅度大概1.5\n35760\t63847\t五度那協議中也也有承諾就是很重要的一個氣候融資因為這是一個全球性的問題所以可能有一些比較比較貧窮的國家必須要有融資的問題才可以協助貧窮國家適應氣候變遷並且讓他轉向使用再生能源那美國\n66179\t86414\t這個算是第二次退出巴黎氣候協定我想要請問一下部長因為他第一次是因為協定的規定所以他2017年就宣布2020年才正式退出第一次退出的時候對於我國\n87540\t109212\t有沒有產生什麼影響報告委員那個時候其實減碳還正式準備要啟動當中所以我們那時候其實減碳也才剛要開始大概都是平的沒有什麼減碳的成果所以現在全世界要減碳大概都是過去這五年當中減得特別有效果那也就是說第二次\n110242\t117282\t現在退出宣佈退出什麼時候生效明年1月生效明年1月就生效明年1月生效\n120421\t141517\t看起來是會不會對我們環境部推動淨零碳排的政策會有什麼阻力報告委員因為政府是對一個大的方針他會不會對全球有影響一定會有影響但是其實我們減碳其實也要看供應鏈例如說我會看蘋果或是我們的伺服器的組裝\n142338\t166832\t他會不會那些大廠影響到他減他的目標那目前雖然聯邦政府美國聯邦政府有改了可是下面基本上沒有一個地方改而且很多的州他還是維持原有的建立目標所以目前我們一直在觀察當中這個影響會有多大而且全世界還沒有一個國家說我要調整我的目標所以目前我們還是審慎樂觀就是就是我我我我\n168453\t182526\t我覺得部長這樣子的回答好像還蠻正確的,就是說全球性的一個方向在走,美國縱使退出也不大會影響,是這樣子嗎?\n185189\t207266\t因為美國大概佔了現在大概20幾%左右的排碳量那當然最大的是中國那當然啦中國的減碳會不會受到美國的這個影響整個貿易壁壘的影響這個還有待觀察但是這個我們就是一直在關切例如說綠色產業例如說綠能或是汽油科技的供應鏈會不會斷鏈這個是我們最關心的如果被斷鏈那減碳真的會有影響對我\n212580\t221154\t對 就這樣子問好了就是說會不會減少因為供應鏈的問題嘛那美國退出了會不會減少企業投資減碳技術的誘因\n224326\t247151\t那環境部這邊怎麼確保台灣的綠色轉型進程會可以...報告委員因為美國的這個他們的銀行的確最近有退出整個國際的淨領的金融的相關的機構沒有再倡議了美國幾個大銀行因為他們要表態這個會影響到全球部分的綠色投資的資金的位移\n247711\t274170\t我們一直在關注那我們台灣目前其實整個趨勢因為我們台灣要賣東西不是只有美國還有別的地方所以基本上我們到目前為止我們也主動的訪問很多金融機構等等大家當然大家都在看大家都在等但是我目前的共識是我們現在暫時不用改變但是如果真的全世界做出一些改變我們一定會滾動式的調整也就是我們必須要先做好一切的準備\n275211\t299665\t我們在準備當中那我問一下就是因為還是會有一些產業受到衝擊對不對那碳費會不會緩增報告委因為目前碳費真的說得很少啦我舉例像中鋼一年3600億的營業額如果按照我們估計它碳費大概只要繳3億多所以1%這個會不會痛當然1%是痛啦\n303347\t317635\t還OK啦這個全世界大概都會收到4、5%以上的幅度啦那所以目前會有一點點壓力但是就又不要給大家馬上變成負債的一個結果這個是我們的期待啦\n318826\t346459\t所以我們會不會延長徵收碳費的輔導期目前我們第一個是說碳費的時間不會變這個目前這是我們的態度那第二個是不是在某方面的今年1月要開始算是算明年5月31號繳所以現在不是現在要從企業身上拿錢出來是明年5月31號所以我們還有很充裕的時間做出最好的判斷\n348305\t373613\t因為歐盟的碳冰箭的調整機制也有可能會延後一年實施鵝豹圍沒有延後它還是明年1月1號開始實施但是是2027年就後年2月開始去買憑證就有點像是我們今年開始做明年要繳錢一樣所以它並不是延後沒有延後沒有延後\n379724\t404958\t我最後問一個問題就是我們室內空氣品質的品質管理法大概從2011年就公布了大概有1600處是環境部公告的室內空品納管場所\n406821\t416145\t我這邊有環境部所提的資料是近兩年來違反的裁罰數字零這個是因為大家做得好還是我們檢查裁罰的人力的問題\n421127\t440106\t其實最主要以前的裁罰幾件大概都是沒有涉專責人員像最近那個拉拉破南港那個他就是剛成立沒有涉專責人員所以理論上他可能就會被裁罰了所以類似這樣的東西是比較多但是因為我們通常檢測我們也在跟同事講到有沒有辦法\n441207\t458284\t檢討一下檢測的方法因為目前檢測是會有請這個外面的顧問公司去檢那通常有時候第一次檢不過可能第二次準備好了就檢過了所以這個我們也在思考說有沒有更好的方法有沒有自動連續的儀器來去做取代現在的神功因為那個要兩三萬塊啦\n459765\t485310\t對當然法律立法的目的不在裁罰啦可是呢可是假如說假如說是真的不應該裁罰所以沒有裁罰這個是好的可是假如是因為其他我們的人力或者是其他的種種因素沒有裁罰這個說一個法已經公布了近兩年裁罰數是零這個還滿\n487850\t510978\t還蠻值得討論看看問題到底在哪裡的其實目前到現在為止49件啦那至於說其實113年也有3件啦那去年是應該是去年是去年3件啦然後前年是1件啦還是有大概都罰罰大概5萬一個是5萬加起來是5萬塊其實他的罰則沒有很重\n511718\t533900\t沒有很重那我們會來再檢討一下反正就是我們就是還是我還是要講就是只有法律並沒有辦法完成很多事情這個就土法不足以自行所以還是必須要努力的去執行法律這個才是立法的主要目的最後我還是講一下剛剛\n535521\t548270\t陳佩玉議員大概也有講到就是中國海費的問題希望部裡面這邊假如有足夠的經費或者是我們想辦法協助三個離島縣看怎麼\n551952\t574679\t怎麼讓三個領導線的海洋可以更乾淨一點讓海灘可以少一點中國漂過來的垃圾這個我們從源頭管理是不可能啦我們只能不停止的淨灘然後打撈這個真的是一件非常\n576059\t593587\t讓你厭煩的事情希望部裡面這邊可以主動跟三個地道縣看有沒有什麼資源可以提供給金門澎湖馬祖的縣政府讓地方來把海洋清一清\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 主席請一下彭部長有請彭部長姚委員好 部長好部長 全世界大概有超過200個國家共同簽署了巴黎氣候協定那從2016年就生效了目標是在2100年前可以將全球均溫控制在上升幅度大概1.5\n五度那協議中也也有承諾就是很重要的一個氣候融資因為這是一個全球性的問題所以可能有一些比較比較貧窮的國家必須要有融資的問題才可以協助貧窮國家適應氣候變遷並且讓他轉向使用再生能源那美國\n這個算是第二次退出巴黎氣候協定我想要請問一下部長因為他第一次是因為協定的規定所以他2017年就宣布2020年才正式退出第一次退出的時候對於我國\n有沒有產生什麼影響報告委員那個時候其實減碳還正式準備要啟動當中所以我們那時候其實減碳也才剛要開始大概都是平的沒有什麼減碳的成果所以現在全世界要減碳大概都是過去這五年當中減得特別有效果那也就是說第二次\n現在退出宣佈退出什麼時候生效明年1月生效明年1月就生效明年1月生效\n看起來是會不會對我們環境部推動淨零碳排的政策會有什麼阻力報告委員因為政府是對一個大的方針他會不會對全球有影響一定會有影響但是其實我們減碳其實也要看供應鏈例如說我會看蘋果或是我們的伺服器的組裝\n他會不會那些大廠影響到他減他的目標那目前雖然聯邦政府美國聯邦政府有改了可是下面基本上沒有一個地方改而且很多的州他還是維持原有的建立目標所以目前我們一直在觀察當中這個影響會有多大而且全世界還沒有一個國家說我要調整我的目標所以目前我們還是審慎樂觀就是就是我我我我\n我覺得部長這樣子的回答好像還蠻正確的,就是說全球性的一個方向在走,美國縱使退出也不大會影響,是這樣子嗎?\n因為美國大概佔了現在大概20幾%左右的排碳量那當然最大的是中國那當然啦中國的減碳會不會受到美國的這個影響整個貿易壁壘的影響這個還有待觀察但是這個我們就是一直在關切例如說綠色產業例如說綠能或是汽油科技的供應鏈會不會斷鏈這個是我們最關心的如果被斷鏈那減碳真的會有影響對我\n對 就這樣子問好了就是說會不會減少因為供應鏈的問題嘛那美國退出了會不會減少企業投資減碳技術的誘因\n那環境部這邊怎麼確保台灣的綠色轉型進程會可以...報告委員因為美國的這個他們的銀行的確最近有退出整個國際的淨領的金融的相關的機構沒有再倡議了美國幾個大銀行因為他們要表態這個會影響到全球部分的綠色投資的資金的位移\n我們一直在關注那我們台灣目前其實整個趨勢因為我們台灣要賣東西不是只有美國還有別的地方所以基本上我們到目前為止我們也主動的訪問很多金融機構等等大家當然大家都在看大家都在等但是我目前的共識是我們現在暫時不用改變但是如果真的全世界做出一些改變我們一定會滾動式的調整也就是我們必須要先做好一切的準備\n我們在準備當中那我問一下就是因為還是會有一些產業受到衝擊對不對那碳費會不會緩增報告委因為目前碳費真的說得很少啦我舉例像中鋼一年3600億的營業額如果按照我們估計它碳費大概只要繳3億多所以1%這個會不會痛當然1%是痛啦\n還OK啦這個全世界大概都會收到4、5%以上的幅度啦那所以目前會有一點點壓力但是就又不要給大家馬上變成負債的一個結果這個是我們的期待啦\n所以我們會不會延長徵收碳費的輔導期目前我們第一個是說碳費的時間不會變這個目前這是我們的態度那第二個是不是在某方面的今年1月要開始算是算明年5月31號繳所以現在不是現在要從企業身上拿錢出來是明年5月31號所以我們還有很充裕的時間做出最好的判斷\n因為歐盟的碳冰箭的調整機制也有可能會延後一年實施鵝豹圍沒有延後它還是明年1月1號開始實施但是是2027年就後年2月開始去買憑證就有點像是我們今年開始做明年要繳錢一樣所以它並不是延後沒有延後沒有延後\n我最後問一個問題就是我們室內空氣品質的品質管理法大概從2011年就公布了大概有1600處是環境部公告的室內空品納管場所\n我這邊有環境部所提的資料是近兩年來違反的裁罰數字零這個是因為大家做得好還是我們檢查裁罰的人力的問題\n其實最主要以前的裁罰幾件大概都是沒有涉專責人員像最近那個拉拉破南港那個他就是剛成立沒有涉專責人員所以理論上他可能就會被裁罰了所以類似這樣的東西是比較多但是因為我們通常檢測我們也在跟同事講到有沒有辦法\n檢討一下檢測的方法因為目前檢測是會有請這個外面的顧問公司去檢那通常有時候第一次檢不過可能第二次準備好了就檢過了所以這個我們也在思考說有沒有更好的方法有沒有自動連續的儀器來去做取代現在的神功因為那個要兩三萬塊啦\n對當然法律立法的目的不在裁罰啦可是呢可是假如說假如說是真的不應該裁罰所以沒有裁罰這個是好的可是假如是因為其他我們的人力或者是其他的種種因素沒有裁罰這個說一個法已經公布了近兩年裁罰數是零這個還滿\n還蠻值得討論看看問題到底在哪裡的其實目前到現在為止49件啦那至於說其實113年也有3件啦那去年是應該是去年是去年3件啦然後前年是1件啦還是有大概都罰罰大概5萬一個是5萬加起來是5萬塊其實他的罰則沒有很重\n沒有很重那我們會來再檢討一下反正就是我們就是還是我還是要講就是只有法律並沒有辦法完成很多事情這個就土法不足以自行所以還是必須要努力的去執行法律這個才是立法的主要目的最後我還是講一下剛剛\n陳佩玉議員大概也有講到就是中國海費的問題希望部裡面這邊假如有足夠的經費或者是我們想辦法協助三個離島縣看怎麼\n怎麼讓三個領導線的海洋可以更乾淨一點讓海灘可以少一點中國漂過來的垃圾這個我們從源頭管理是不可能啦我們只能不停止的淨灘然後打撈這個真的是一件非常\n讓你厭煩的事情希望部裡面這邊可以主動跟三個地道縣看有沒有什麼資源可以提供給金門澎湖馬祖的縣政府讓地方來把海洋清一清\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.018 --> 00:34.119\n好謝謝主席主席請一下彭部長有請彭部長姚委員好部長好部長全世界大概有超過200個國家共同簽署了巴黎氣候協定那從2016年就生效了目標是在2100年前可以將全球均溫控制在上升幅度大概1.5\n\n00:35.760 --> 01:03.847\n五度那協議中也也有承諾就是很重要的一個氣候融資因為這是一個全球性的問題所以可能有一些比較比較貧窮的國家必須要有融資的問題才可以協助貧窮國家適應氣候變遷並且讓他轉向使用再生能源那美國\n\n01:06.179 --> 01:26.414\n這個算是第二次退出巴黎氣候協定我想要請問一下部長因為他第一次是因為協定的規定所以他2017年就宣布2020年才正式退出第一次退出的時候對於我國\n\n01:27.540 --> 01:49.212\n有沒有產生什麼影響報告委員那個時候其實減碳還正式準備要啟動當中所以我們那時候其實減碳也才剛要開始大概都是平的沒有什麼減碳的成果所以現在全世界要減碳大概都是過去這五年當中減得特別有效果那也就是說第二次\n\n01:50.242 --> 01:57.282\n現在退出宣佈退出什麼時候生效明年1月生效明年1月就生效明年1月生效\n\n02:00.421 --> 02:21.517\n看起來是會不會對我們環境部推動淨零碳排的政策會有什麼阻力報告委員因為政府是對一個大的方針他會不會對全球有影響一定會有影響但是其實我們減碳其實也要看供應鏈例如說我會看蘋果或是我們的伺服器的組裝\n\n02:22.338 --> 02:46.832\n他會不會那些大廠影響到他減他的目標那目前雖然聯邦政府美國聯邦政府有改了可是下面基本上沒有一個地方改而且很多的州他還是維持原有的建立目標所以目前我們一直在觀察當中這個影響會有多大而且全世界還沒有一個國家說我要調整我的目標所以目前我們還是審慎樂觀就是就是我我我我\n\n02:48.453 --> 03:02.526\n我覺得部長這樣子的回答好像還蠻正確的,就是說全球性的一個方向在走,美國縱使退出也不大會影響,是這樣子嗎?\n\n03:05.189 --> 03:27.266\n因為美國大概佔了現在大概20幾%左右的排碳量那當然最大的是中國那當然啦中國的減碳會不會受到美國的這個影響整個貿易壁壘的影響這個還有待觀察但是這個我們就是一直在關切例如說綠色產業例如說綠能或是汽油科技的供應鏈會不會斷鏈這個是我們最關心的如果被斷鏈那減碳真的會有影響對我\n\n03:32.580 --> 03:41.154\n對就這樣子問好了就是說會不會減少因為供應鏈的問題嘛那美國退出了會不會減少企業投資減碳技術的誘因\n\n03:44.326 --> 04:07.151\n那環境部這邊怎麼確保台灣的綠色轉型進程會可以...報告委員因為美國的這個他們的銀行的確最近有退出整個國際的淨領的金融的相關的機構沒有再倡議了美國幾個大銀行因為他們要表態這個會影響到全球部分的綠色投資的資金的位移\n\n04:07.711 --> 04:34.170\n我們一直在關注那我們台灣目前其實整個趨勢因為我們台灣要賣東西不是只有美國還有別的地方所以基本上我們到目前為止我們也主動的訪問很多金融機構等等大家當然大家都在看大家都在等但是我目前的共識是我們現在暫時不用改變但是如果真的全世界做出一些改變我們一定會滾動式的調整也就是我們必須要先做好一切的準備\n\n04:35.211 --> 04:59.665\n我們在準備當中那我問一下就是因為還是會有一些產業受到衝擊對不對那碳費會不會緩增報告委因為目前碳費真的說得很少啦我舉例像中鋼一年3600億的營業額如果按照我們估計它碳費大概只要繳3億多所以1%這個會不會痛當然1%是痛啦\n\n05:03.347 --> 05:17.635\n還OK啦這個全世界大概都會收到4、5%以上的幅度啦那所以目前會有一點點壓力但是就又不要給大家馬上變成負債的一個結果這個是我們的期待啦\n\n05:18.826 --> 05:46.459\n所以我們會不會延長徵收碳費的輔導期目前我們第一個是說碳費的時間不會變這個目前這是我們的態度那第二個是不是在某方面的今年1月要開始算是算明年5月31號繳所以現在不是現在要從企業身上拿錢出來是明年5月31號所以我們還有很充裕的時間做出最好的判斷\n\n05:48.305 --> 06:13.613\n因為歐盟的碳冰箭的調整機制也有可能會延後一年實施鵝豹圍沒有延後它還是明年1月1號開始實施但是是2027年就後年2月開始去買憑證就有點像是我們今年開始做明年要繳錢一樣所以它並不是延後沒有延後沒有延後\n\n06:19.724 --> 06:44.958\n我最後問一個問題就是我們室內空氣品質的品質管理法大概從2011年就公布了大概有1600處是環境部公告的室內空品納管場所\n\n06:46.821 --> 06:56.145\n我這邊有環境部所提的資料是近兩年來違反的裁罰數字零這個是因為大家做得好還是我們檢查裁罰的人力的問題\n\n07:01.127 --> 07:20.106\n其實最主要以前的裁罰幾件大概都是沒有涉專責人員像最近那個拉拉破南港那個他就是剛成立沒有涉專責人員所以理論上他可能就會被裁罰了所以類似這樣的東西是比較多但是因為我們通常檢測我們也在跟同事講到有沒有辦法\n\n07:21.207 --> 07:38.284\n檢討一下檢測的方法因為目前檢測是會有請這個外面的顧問公司去檢那通常有時候第一次檢不過可能第二次準備好了就檢過了所以這個我們也在思考說有沒有更好的方法有沒有自動連續的儀器來去做取代現在的神功因為那個要兩三萬塊啦\n\n07:39.765 --> 08:05.310\n對當然法律立法的目的不在裁罰啦可是呢可是假如說假如說是真的不應該裁罰所以沒有裁罰這個是好的可是假如是因為其他我們的人力或者是其他的種種因素沒有裁罰這個說一個法已經公布了近兩年裁罰數是零這個還滿\n\n08:07.850 --> 08:30.978\n還蠻值得討論看看問題到底在哪裡的其實目前到現在為止49件啦那至於說其實113年也有3件啦那去年是應該是去年是去年3件啦然後前年是1件啦還是有大概都罰罰大概5萬一個是5萬加起來是5萬塊其實他的罰則沒有很重\n\n08:31.718 --> 08:53.900\n沒有很重那我們會來再檢討一下反正就是我們就是還是我還是要講就是只有法律並沒有辦法完成很多事情這個就土法不足以自行所以還是必須要努力的去執行法律這個才是立法的主要目的最後我還是講一下剛剛\n\n08:55.521 --> 09:08.270\n陳佩玉議員大概也有講到就是中國海費的問題希望部裡面這邊假如有足夠的經費或者是我們想辦法協助三個離島縣看怎麼\n\n09:11.952 --> 09:34.679\n怎麼讓三個領導線的海洋可以更乾淨一點讓海灘可以少一點中國漂過來的垃圾這個我們從源頭管理是不可能啦我們只能不停止的淨灘然後打撈這個真的是一件非常\n\n09:36.059 --> 09:53.587\n讓你厭煩的事情希望部裡面這邊可以主動跟三個地道縣看有沒有什麼資源可以提供給金門澎湖馬祖的縣政府讓地方來把海洋清一清\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.018,"end":34.119,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席請一下彭部長有請彭部長姚委員好 部長好部長 全世界大概有超過200個國家共同簽署了巴黎氣候協定那從2016年就生效了目標是在2100年前可以將全球均溫控制在上升幅度大概1.5"},{"start":35.76,"end":63.847,"text":"五度那協議中也也有承諾就是很重要的一個氣候融資因為這是一個全球性的問題所以可能有一些比較比較貧窮的國家必須要有融資的問題才可以協助貧窮國家適應氣候變遷並且讓他轉向使用再生能源那美國"},{"start":66.179,"end":86.414,"text":"這個算是第二次退出巴黎氣候協定我想要請問一下部長因為他第一次是因為協定的規定所以他2017年就宣布2020年才正式退出第一次退出的時候對於我國"},{"start":87.54,"end":109.212,"text":"有沒有產生什麼影響報告委員那個時候其實減碳還正式準備要啟動當中所以我們那時候其實減碳也才剛要開始大概都是平的沒有什麼減碳的成果所以現在全世界要減碳大概都是過去這五年當中減得特別有效果那也就是說第二次"},{"start":110.242,"end":117.282,"text":"現在退出宣佈退出什麼時候生效明年1月生效明年1月就生效明年1月生效"},{"start":120.421,"end":141.517,"text":"看起來是會不會對我們環境部推動淨零碳排的政策會有什麼阻力報告委員因為政府是對一個大的方針他會不會對全球有影響一定會有影響但是其實我們減碳其實也要看供應鏈例如說我會看蘋果或是我們的伺服器的組裝"},{"start":142.338,"end":166.832,"text":"他會不會那些大廠影響到他減他的目標那目前雖然聯邦政府美國聯邦政府有改了可是下面基本上沒有一個地方改而且很多的州他還是維持原有的建立目標所以目前我們一直在觀察當中這個影響會有多大而且全世界還沒有一個國家說我要調整我的目標所以目前我們還是審慎樂觀就是就是我我我我"},{"start":168.453,"end":182.526,"text":"我覺得部長這樣子的回答好像還蠻正確的,就是說全球性的一個方向在走,美國縱使退出也不大會影響,是這樣子嗎?"},{"start":185.189,"end":207.266,"text":"因為美國大概佔了現在大概20幾%左右的排碳量那當然最大的是中國那當然啦中國的減碳會不會受到美國的這個影響整個貿易壁壘的影響這個還有待觀察但是這個我們就是一直在關切例如說綠色產業例如說綠能或是汽油科技的供應鏈會不會斷鏈這個是我們最關心的如果被斷鏈那減碳真的會有影響對我"},{"start":212.58,"end":221.154,"text":"對 就這樣子問好了就是說會不會減少因為供應鏈的問題嘛那美國退出了會不會減少企業投資減碳技術的誘因"},{"start":224.326,"end":247.151,"text":"那環境部這邊怎麼確保台灣的綠色轉型進程會可以...報告委員因為美國的這個他們的銀行的確最近有退出整個國際的淨領的金融的相關的機構沒有再倡議了美國幾個大銀行因為他們要表態這個會影響到全球部分的綠色投資的資金的位移"},{"start":247.711,"end":274.17,"text":"我們一直在關注那我們台灣目前其實整個趨勢因為我們台灣要賣東西不是只有美國還有別的地方所以基本上我們到目前為止我們也主動的訪問很多金融機構等等大家當然大家都在看大家都在等但是我目前的共識是我們現在暫時不用改變但是如果真的全世界做出一些改變我們一定會滾動式的調整也就是我們必須要先做好一切的準備"},{"start":275.211,"end":299.665,"text":"我們在準備當中那我問一下就是因為還是會有一些產業受到衝擊對不對那碳費會不會緩增報告委因為目前碳費真的說得很少啦我舉例像中鋼一年3600億的營業額如果按照我們估計它碳費大概只要繳3億多所以1%這個會不會痛當然1%是痛啦"},{"start":303.347,"end":317.635,"text":"還OK啦這個全世界大概都會收到4、5%以上的幅度啦那所以目前會有一點點壓力但是就又不要給大家馬上變成負債的一個結果這個是我們的期待啦"},{"start":318.826,"end":346.459,"text":"所以我們會不會延長徵收碳費的輔導期目前我們第一個是說碳費的時間不會變這個目前這是我們的態度那第二個是不是在某方面的今年1月要開始算是算明年5月31號繳所以現在不是現在要從企業身上拿錢出來是明年5月31號所以我們還有很充裕的時間做出最好的判斷"},{"start":348.305,"end":373.613,"text":"因為歐盟的碳冰箭的調整機制也有可能會延後一年實施鵝豹圍沒有延後它還是明年1月1號開始實施但是是2027年就後年2月開始去買憑證就有點像是我們今年開始做明年要繳錢一樣所以它並不是延後沒有延後沒有延後"},{"start":379.724,"end":404.958,"text":"我最後問一個問題就是我們室內空氣品質的品質管理法大概從2011年就公布了大概有1600處是環境部公告的室內空品納管場所"},{"start":406.821,"end":416.145,"text":"我這邊有環境部所提的資料是近兩年來違反的裁罰數字零這個是因為大家做得好還是我們檢查裁罰的人力的問題"},{"start":421.127,"end":440.106,"text":"其實最主要以前的裁罰幾件大概都是沒有涉專責人員像最近那個拉拉破南港那個他就是剛成立沒有涉專責人員所以理論上他可能就會被裁罰了所以類似這樣的東西是比較多但是因為我們通常檢測我們也在跟同事講到有沒有辦法"},{"start":441.207,"end":458.284,"text":"檢討一下檢測的方法因為目前檢測是會有請這個外面的顧問公司去檢那通常有時候第一次檢不過可能第二次準備好了就檢過了所以這個我們也在思考說有沒有更好的方法有沒有自動連續的儀器來去做取代現在的神功因為那個要兩三萬塊啦"},{"start":459.765,"end":485.31,"text":"對當然法律立法的目的不在裁罰啦可是呢可是假如說假如說是真的不應該裁罰所以沒有裁罰這個是好的可是假如是因為其他我們的人力或者是其他的種種因素沒有裁罰這個說一個法已經公布了近兩年裁罰數是零這個還滿"},{"start":487.85,"end":510.978,"text":"還蠻值得討論看看問題到底在哪裡的其實目前到現在為止49件啦那至於說其實113年也有3件啦那去年是應該是去年是去年3件啦然後前年是1件啦還是有大概都罰罰大概5萬一個是5萬加起來是5萬塊其實他的罰則沒有很重"},{"start":511.718,"end":533.9,"text":"沒有很重那我們會來再檢討一下反正就是我們就是還是我還是要講就是只有法律並沒有辦法完成很多事情這個就土法不足以自行所以還是必須要努力的去執行法律這個才是立法的主要目的最後我還是講一下剛剛"},{"start":535.521,"end":548.27,"text":"陳佩玉議員大概也有講到就是中國海費的問題希望部裡面這邊假如有足夠的經費或者是我們想辦法協助三個離島縣看怎麼"},{"start":551.952,"end":574.679,"text":"怎麼讓三個領導線的海洋可以更乾淨一點讓海灘可以少一點中國漂過來的垃圾這個我們從源頭管理是不可能啦我們只能不停止的淨灘然後打撈這個真的是一件非常"},{"start":576.059,"end":593.587,"text":"讓你厭煩的事情希望部裡面這邊可以主動跟三個地道縣看有沒有什麼資源可以提供給金門澎湖馬祖的縣政府讓地方來把海洋清一清"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":994,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（12時51分）謝謝主席。主席，請一下彭部長。"],["主席：有請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：楊委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長好。部長，全世界大概有超過200個國家共同簽署了巴黎氣候協定，從2016年就生效了，目標是在2100年前可以將全球均溫上升幅度控制在1.5度左右，協議中也有承諾一個很重要的氣候融資，因為這是一個全球性的問題，所以可能有些比較貧窮的國家必須要有融資的問題，才可以協助貧窮國家適應氣候變遷，並且讓他轉向使用再生能源。美國算是第2次退出巴黎氣候協定，我想要請問部長的是，他第一次是因為協定的規定，所以他2017年就宣布，2020年才正式退出，第一次退出的時候，對於我國有沒有產生什麼影響？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，那個時候減碳才正式準備要啟動，我們那時候減碳也才剛要開始，所以大概都是平的，沒有什麼減碳的成果，現在全世界要減碳，大概也都是過去這5年當中減得特別有效果。"],["楊委員曜：好，也就是說，現在宣布第二次退出，什麼時候會生效？"],["彭部長啓明：明年1月生效。"],["楊委員曜：好，明年1月生效，看起來對我們環境部推動淨零碳排的政策會不會有什麼阻力？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為政府是對一個大的方針，這會不會對全球有影響？一定會有影響，但是我們減碳其實也要看供應鏈，例如說，我會看蘋果或是我們伺服器的組裝，會不會影響到那些大廠減碳的目標。目前雖然美國聯邦政府有改了，可是基本上下面沒有一個地方改，而且很多州還是維持原有的淨零目標，所以目前我們一直在觀察這個影響會有多大，而且全世界還沒有一個國家說我要調整我的目標，所以目前我們還是審慎、樂觀。"],["楊委員曜：我覺得部長這樣子回答好像還滿正確的，就是說，全球性的方向在走，縱使美國退出也不大有會影響，是這樣子嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：因為美國現在大概占百分之二十幾的排碳量，當然最大的是中國，至於中國的減碳會不會受到美國的影響、整個貿易壁壘的影響？這個還有待觀察，但是我們就是一直在關切，例如說綠色產業，像是綠能或是氣候科技的供應鏈會不會斷鏈，這個是我們最關心的，如果被斷鏈，減碳就真的會有影響。"],["楊委員曜：對，我這樣子問好了，因為供應鏈的問題，美國退出會不會減少企業投資減碳技術的誘因？環境部怎麼確保臺灣的綠色轉型進程可以保持……"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，美國的銀行的確最近有退出整個國際淨零金融的相關機構，沒有在倡議了，美國幾個大銀行，因為他們要表態，這個會影響到全球部分綠色投資的資金的位移，我們一直有在關注。而臺灣目前整個趨勢，因為臺灣賣東西不是只有賣美國，還有別的地方，所以基本上到目前為止，我們也主動的訪問很多金融機構等等，當然大家都在看、大家都在等，但是我們目前的共識是，我們現在暫時不用改變，但是如果真的全世界做出一些改變，我們一定會滾動式的調整。"],["楊委員曜：也就是我們必須要先做好一切的準備，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對，我們在準備當中。"],["楊委員曜：我問一下，因為還是會有一些產業受到衝擊，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["楊委員曜：碳費會不會緩徵？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為目前碳費真的收得很少，我舉例，像中鋼一年3,600億的營業額，按照我們的估計，它的碳費大概只要繳三億多，大概1%，這個會不會痛？當然1%是痛啦，但應該還OK，全世界大概都會收到4、5%以上的幅度，所以目前會有一點點壓力，但是又不要給大家馬上變成負債的結果，這個是我們的期待。"],["楊委員曜：所以我們會不會延長徵收碳費的輔導期？"],["彭部長啓明：目前第一個，碳費的時間不會變，這是目前我們的態度。第二個，是不是在某方面的……"],["楊委員曜：是不是從2027年？"],["彭部長啓明：是今年1月1日開始算，明年5月31日繳，所以不是現在要從企業身上拿錢出來，而是明年5月31日，所以我們還有很充裕的時間做出最好的判斷。"],["楊委員曜：因為歐盟碳邊境調整機制也有可能會延後一年實施，有沒有？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，沒有延後，還是明年1月1日開始實施，但是2027年，也就是後年2月開始去買憑證，就有點像我們今年開始做，明年要繳錢一樣，很像。"],["楊委員曜：所以它並不是延後？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有延後。"],["楊委員曜：我最後問一個問題，室內空氣品質管理法從2011年就公布了，大概有1,600處是環境部公告的室內空品納管場所，我這邊有環境部所提的資料，近兩年來違反的裁罰數字是「0」，這個是因為大家做得好，還是是檢查、裁罰的人力問題？"],["彭部長啓明：其實最主要以前的裁罰中，有幾件大概都是沒有設專責人員，像最近南港的LaLaport就是剛成立但沒有設專責人員，所以理論上它可能就會被裁罰，所以類似這樣的東西是比較多。但是我們也在跟同事講到有沒有辦法檢討一下檢測的方法，因為目前檢測是會請外面的顧問公司去檢，有時候第一次檢不過，可能第二次準備好了就檢過了，所以這個我們也在思考看有沒有更好的方法，有沒有自動連續的儀器來去取代現在的人工，因為那個要2、3萬塊。"],["楊委員曜：對，當然法律立法的目的不在裁罰。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["楊委員曜：可是假如真的不應該裁罰所以沒有裁罰，這個是好的，可是假如是因為我們的人力或者是其他種種因素而沒有裁罰，畢竟這個法已經公布近兩年了，裁罰數是「0」，這個還滿值得討論看看問題到底在哪裡。"],["彭部長啓明：其實到現在為止有49件，其實113年也有3件，前年是1件，還是有罰，大概都罰……一個加起來是5萬塊，其實它的罰則沒有很重，我們會再來檢討一下。"],["楊委員曜：我還是要講，只有法律並沒有辦法完成很多事情，徒法不足以自行，還是必須要努力地去執行法律，這個才是立法的主要目的。","最後，我還是講一下，剛剛陳培瑜委員大概也有講到，就是中國海廢的問題，希望部裡假如有足夠的經費，想辦法協助三個離島縣，看怎麼讓三個離島縣的海洋可以更乾淨一點，讓海灘可以少一點中國漂過來的垃圾。"],["彭部長啓明：OK。"],["楊委員曜：這個要我們從源頭管理不可能，只能不停地淨灘、打撈，真的是一件非常讓人厭煩的事情！希望部裡可以主動看有沒有什麼資源可以提供給金門、澎湖、馬祖的縣政府，讓地方來把海洋清一清。"],["彭部長啓明：OK。"],["楊委員曜：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。我們研究看看，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊曜委員發言。","接下來請陳瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}