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{\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 821.149, \"end\": 821.469, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"綜\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 821.469, \"end\": 821.609, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 821.609, \"end\": 821.789, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 821.789, \"end\": 821.93, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 821.93, \"end\": 822.05, \"score\": 0.603}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 822.05, \"end\": 822.75, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 822.75, \"end\": 822.87, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 822.87, \"end\": 822.99, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 822.99, \"end\": 823.13, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 823.13, \"end\": 823.35, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 823.35, \"end\": 823.45, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 823.45, \"end\": 823.49, \"score\": 0.472}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 823.49, \"end\": 823.611, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 851.993, \"end\": 852.153, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 852.153, \"end\": 852.233, \"score\": 0.437}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 852.233, \"end\": 852.253, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,122 --> 00:00:08,822\n這邊是蠻多人關注的您最近對外的一些發言所以\n\n2\n00:00:30,899 --> 00:00:56,666\n今天我也趕快熟讀一下您的發言所以本席第一個想問的問題是說您在前幾天出席國家安全防衛任性委員會出來之後呢您認為說許多委員都有達到一樣的共識對於台灣如果應對能源封鎖的話針對國安的風險在考量國安應該要保留核能這是您說的嗎\n\n3\n00:00:57,606 --> 00:01:18,266\n包委員那個媒體報導有錯第一個這個全方位任性還沒有開我是說這個國家安全不是我們氣候變遷這個所阻擋的這個應該從那個委員會可以去做討論所以其實我當天說得很清楚我也跟我同仁確認過我是這樣講的嗎其實他裡面可能是他把一些刪掉了\n\n4\n00:01:18,686 --> 00:01:34,602\n因為這個文章中提到說現場有企業對您提問說台海若發生封鎖恐嚴重影響國安所以您表示說對進口天然氣的依賴確實涉及國安因此在討論相關議題的時候你說在你曾經參加過這樣子的委員會\n\n5\n00:01:39,927 --> 00:02:05,901\n沒有沒有不是這樣講的我是說其實各種的能源包含很多的國家在推動能源政策的時候其實核能他們也是國安的一個選項之一那這個部分呢我們可以未來也可以來討論這個事情那這個討論的平台不在我們氣候變遷對策委員會是在這個全方位任性從國家安全的角度因為我們不是國家安全的單位啊所以我們其實那天我昨天是昨天我昨天他問我我這樣打的但是我很遺憾媒體是這樣寫的\n\n6\n00:02:06,721 --> 00:02:34,933\n所以您是以什麼身份來聊這些您認為這個議題會在國安當中討論他們請我去做KeynoteSpeaker我沒有做國安的討論我是說其實在國際上的確有這樣的討論但是其實是有些國家的案例台灣還並沒有這樣的討論那您認為那您會認為因為你是環境部嘛所以您認為核能是否會對台灣的淨零碳排等等我們需要達到的這些國際任務會有幫助呢\n\n7\n00:02:35,593 --> 00:02:58,515\n如果說低碳能源的話當然是有幫助不過報告委員因為當時我們訂這個減碳目標的時候核能我也看到裡面那這問題是說要法定通過還要這個安全檢查然後還有地層斷層的這個處理然後甚至呢最後還有經費核廢料等等其實這個算起來費用很高也要花很久的時間所以其實最後淨離的目標是沒有辦法\n\n8\n00:02:58,955 --> 00:03:16,666\n您專業環境部長的意見您是認為核能的確是對淨零碳排有幫助但是背後還有很多事情需要處理剛剛您的意思是這樣子對要很多錢還要花很多的時間不是說明天就可以繼續用了所以這個基本上這個是我們沒有辦法掌控的所以那時候我們推淨零的時候沒有把它放進去\n\n9\n00:03:16,886 --> 00:03:33,181\n好那再來呢因為您當天除了稍微聊到國安以外您說呢這個中央沒有非核家園的信仰也沒有也不是所謂行政團隊的神主牌所以你們說這個政府的態度是很開放的\n\n10\n00:03:34,322 --> 00:04:00,995\n請問您講的這個中央代表的是什麼中央因為現在中央政府的中央跟民進黨黨主席的中央是同一個中央您這個提到的這個是指我們行政團隊因為委員在大院的時候包含卓院長或是總統在氣候變遷對策委員會也曾經多說過非二加元不是神主牌之類的話所以其實我是就是引述而已並沒有說這個是我們政策上有很大的轉彎並沒有轉彎\n\n11\n00:04:02,236 --> 00:04:15,761\n但因為我們現在總統同時也是民進黨的黨主席嘛所以你的意思是說行政團隊的這個中央團隊認為非核家園已經不再是神主牌所以代表說你們也有可能會轉彎沒有就是說我們很開放的來討論這個事情開放的來討論對對對\n\n12\n00:04:20,563 --> 00:04:29,431\n那另外您在這個訪談您是當KeynoteSpeaker嘛所以您也有提到說SMR的這個問題所以因為我們現在剛好面臨國人非常關心的90天關稅談判而賴總統也有提到說能源是我們談判的籌碼之一請問這個SMR是不是你們內部也開始有在討論是不是關稅談判的籌碼之一呢\n\n13\n00:04:45,985 --> 00:05:02,747\n包括因為能源或是核能或是核廢料真的不是我們環境部主管的單位可能是經濟部但是您聊蠻多的但是因為我們是關心淨零所以我們的確是很認真的去做瞭解那以現在全世界SMR目前最快最快可以商轉可能是2030年\n\n14\n00:05:04,589 --> 00:05:27,147\n這個我的意思是說在談判的籌碼能源SMR列入談判的籌碼跟它什麼時候開始相轉我想這是兩回事吧那既然您參加的這些委員會可能也同時都涵蓋有經濟部的部長也涵蓋有和安會等等你們全部都會一起參加這些會議嘛所以我也想知道說大家是不是都跟您有一樣的想法因為您對於SMR也蠻多看法的\n\n15\n00:05:30,109 --> 00:05:56,014\n的確它的確是一個新的這個新的技術但是也跟委員報告他蠻貴的這個其實目前最新的一個美國的newscale的2030年完工的大概一個機組462M大概就要花到105億美元這個其實很貴還不如蓋一個新的所以基本上不管是SMR或是一種核能的重啟或研議其實第一個他費用第二個是說他跟社會的溝通的成本還有各種核廢料其實都\n\n16\n00:05:56,754 --> 00:06:21,107\n說真的還蠻困難的可是因為全民都蠻關切這個90天的貿易關稅談判嘛所以既然能源一定會是談判其中的一個選項之一所以大家也就會想要知道說SMR是不是就籌碼之一嘛目前我自己我沒有參與那個討論這個SMR的會議那我想因為目前全世界也還沒有SMR開始商轉所以應該不會列入這個\n\n17\n00:06:21,547 --> 00:06:47,812\n那因為剛剛你有提到說這些核能相關的議題其實還需要很多的社會凝聚共識也要非常多的溝通所以既然能源是其中一個談判籌碼之一的話我也希望您知道談判之後呢也可以盡快的展開這些溝通好嗎好謝謝對因為聽起來的話我們也很擔心這個SMR它列入溝通那它也會對我們國家的能源政策造成一個蠻重大的衝擊嘛好謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:50,131 --> 00:07:06,095\n好那下一個想問一下這個是我們今年1月底太陽能光電環屏終於納入環屏的標準那這些內容就包括以下我劃線的這也是您認同的嘛濕地山坡地動物保護區等等潮間帶你覺得這樣子夠嗎\n\n19\n00:07:09,315 --> 00:07:29,634\n有沒有遺漏的報告委員其實環評有兩個目的世界主管機關一個是例如說經濟部像能源署就是主管機關之一他們有他們的生態檢核的機制那我們是超過一定的量大就要送到我們這邊環評所以基本上目前是我們有參考其他國家和日本的進行方式那這是我去年執行的內容我們也稍微播放一下\n\n20\n00:07:32,113 --> 00:07:47,096\n因為你剛提到量我們等一下也會來討論量放在屋頂上可以費率比較高嘛所以就很多人其實他覺得餘溫結果他故意去架了一個屋頂然後再放到屋頂上這個我想你們都已經知道了啦計算起來呢這些\n\n21\n00:07:47,717 --> 00:08:13,258\n不需要做環射檢核的屋頂加起來已經1117公頃好我們來對比之前你說需要環評有一個高爾夫球場曾經接受過很嚴重的環評很詳細的環評才52公頃結果剛剛大家都說這個屋頂上有多好我們獎勵他們結果1117公頃現在都沒有人在管他們這個是很違背一般人民的認知現在許多人是假養殖在增重店\n\n22\n00:08:15,973 --> 00:08:18,515\n好剛剛你有講到量嘛很明顯的這些屋頂上的量是很大的喔全部統計起來是非常大的那這邊呢是許多多人民也有跟我們反映啦等一下我會給你看一個澄清我們先看你在規定風力發電\n\n23\n00:08:40,151 --> 00:09:09,000\n你在規定水利發電你在規定核能潮汐地熱後面從來就沒有一個單書沒有這種括號的東西出現可是呢針對這個其實國人最在意的許許多多弊案而且利益牽扯最複雜的光點你後面有這一大段的括號單書寫不含設置於屋頂上或屬其他開發行為附屬等等事業主管機關確認者就是你剛提到的經濟部\n\n24\n00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:27,646\n為什麼為什麼第一個是屋頂上本來就是沒有限制甚至說餘溫上面這個餘電共生那個就是不用去做特別的環評那個是目的世界主管機關他經過這個生態檢核過後其實他有他的標準那目前是不用經過環評\n\n25\n00:09:28,866 --> 00:09:48,865\n好但這個也是我們許許多啦許多人那人民啊他們已經不堪其擾這個社區進去到處就是光電板像狗皮膏藥一樣好在這邊第六點你看我曾經質詢過蘇清玄招委也帶著環境部一起去看現在屏東是什麼樣子\n\n26\n00:09:50,166 --> 00:10:15,618\n那當然你剛剛說屬於經濟部的核可就不用環評結果呢我們都發現他們是砍樹來放光電板那你還把這些大家最在意的你知道很多餘溫因為放了光電板已經變成一灘臭水變成這樣子這些也是你走訪中南部所看到的也是我們中南部現在鄉親很在意的啊\n\n27\n00:10:17,064 --> 00:10:21,661\n結果你在修改的時候還特別列了一個其他能源政策都沒有的單數\n\n28\n00:10:23,188 --> 00:10:49,145\n包委員這個其實是第一個是造林一個是平地一個是山坡地例如說像蘇委員說的就是山坡地它是15公頃以上或是20M就要還平所以基本上有一定的單數那個因為那個是很早期弄的的確那時候沒有任何的限制那現在是有了而且加嚴了好那這邊我們看因為你第一片這個slide你就說提到量你覺得這個光電板的量但你看這邊\n\n29\n00:10:50,606 --> 00:10:56,671\n你既然他已經是但書了以外然後他卻是近幾年來越來越多從108年到112年屋頂上比地面型還要多超過現在併網的一半結果你變相還加一個但書你覺得113年114年115年你會怎麼預期他屋頂型會不會越來越多\n\n30\n00:11:11,494 --> 00:11:36,711\n屋頂型基本上是應該是被鼓勵的因為他不是說從現有的農地或是說各種的新開發的林地去做改變屋頂型是基本上是被鼓勵的而且我們的獎勵被鼓勵但是也需要受到環境部的規範嗎基本上目前是不用做因為屋頂型的這個量其實他不會不會太大但是而且是個別個別小的剛已經跟你說他是病亡一半好這邊啊\n\n31\n00:11:38,174 --> 00:12:01,539\n你們在做這個預告的時候其實你們有附上一個email你有提到說60日內請提供建議等等那為什麼我會詢問你這件事就是因為我們有收到一位中南部阿貝的陳情他的意思是說他已經受不了了他走進他的社區到處就是而且還蓋在水溝上根本沒有什麼環境部的管制嘛那這是去年8月他把這整封信貼給我們\n\n32\n00:12:02,759 --> 00:12:20,345\n他講到說很多屋頂上的光點他反映給你們知道是假屋頂型只是因為設置的條件比較寬鬆所以故意蓋一個屋頂就明明他那邊其實不需要屋頂他為了做屋頂型又去硬扯一個鐵皮屋蓋了一個屋頂那反而很妨害下面的生態\n\n33\n00:12:21,305 --> 00:12:43,041\n但因為他是不需要你們的檢核而且費率還比地面型還要高所以就變成一個變相的發財之道難怪申請量暴增結果你們公告的草案竟然直接去免去屋頂型的環評成為大漏洞所以請將以上的建議納入並且考慮修正結果你知道嗎這封信已讀不回\n\n34\n00:12:44,022 --> 00:12:55,555\n所以我也搞不太清楚你們叫大家寄信到你們這個可能是林彥祺的信箱然後說要參考大家的修正意見那已讀不回所以你們到底有沒有納入\n\n35\n00:12:59,479 --> 00:13:22,578\n這個我們會再跟能源署再來做協調因為這個部分屋頂型的光電是主要是他們有他們的一個機制生態檢核的機制然後是由這個能源署在主管的所以我們會再來瞭解好不好這個案例這個幾個案例這是未來的政策請問你們在這段期間是不是也陸續收到許多意見有沒有你們有回覆嗎還是全部都沒有回覆\n\n36\n00:13:23,018 --> 00:13:45,672\n跟委員報告剛剛您提到的那個就是公開徵詢意見是在我們預告期間收集的各界意見那我們收集的意見以後其實也有開公聽演商會然後也會跟各個相關的行政機關做研究所以也不是說所有收到陳情的意見我們都會在最後修法定案的時候去採納因為這可能要綜合很多的意見我知道你們不一定要採納但是你們可能也要回復一下人家\n\n37\n00:13:46,512 --> 00:14:12,253\n因為本來阿伯是希望你們可以他希望帶你們去看他的社區或是拍一些照片給你們但就全部沒有回覆結果最後就直接上路了是這個我們在會後我們再瞭解一下因為有很多意見其實我們有最後有做一個回應的表然後可能在這個這個案例我們去了解一下那個陳情人的意見我們是不是有收到那之後再跟你們繼續追蹤這個屋頂型的好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8122\t8822\t這邊是蠻多人關注的您最近對外的一些發言所以\n30899\t56666\t今天我也趕快熟讀一下您的發言所以本席第一個想問的問題是說您在前幾天出席國家安全防衛任性委員會出來之後呢您認為說許多委員都有達到一樣的共識對於台灣如果應對能源封鎖的話針對國安的風險在考量國安應該要保留核能這是您說的嗎\n57606\t78266\t包委員那個媒體報導有錯第一個這個全方位任性還沒有開我是說這個國家安全不是我們氣候變遷這個所阻擋的這個應該從那個委員會可以去做討論所以其實我當天說得很清楚我也跟我同仁確認過我是這樣講的嗎其實他裡面可能是他把一些刪掉了\n78686\t94602\t因為這個文章中提到說現場有企業對您提問說台海若發生封鎖恐嚴重影響國安所以您表示說對進口天然氣的依賴確實涉及國安因此在討論相關議題的時候你說在你曾經參加過這樣子的委員會\n99927\t125901\t沒有沒有不是這樣講的我是說其實各種的能源包含很多的國家在推動能源政策的時候其實核能他們也是國安的一個選項之一那這個部分呢我們可以未來也可以來討論這個事情那這個討論的平台不在我們氣候變遷對策委員會是在這個全方位任性從國家安全的角度因為我們不是國家安全的單位啊所以我們其實那天我昨天是昨天我昨天他問我我這樣打的但是我很遺憾媒體是這樣寫的\n126721\t154933\t所以您是以什麼身份來聊這些您認為這個議題會在國安當中討論他們請我去做Keynote Speaker我沒有做國安的討論我是說其實在國際上的確有這樣的討論但是其實是有些國家的案例台灣還並沒有這樣的討論那您認為那您會認為因為你是環境部嘛所以您認為核能是否會對台灣的淨零碳排等等我們需要達到的這些國際任務會有幫助呢\n155593\t178515\t如果說低碳能源的話當然是有幫助不過報告委員因為當時我們訂這個減碳目標的時候核能我也看到裡面那這問題是說要法定通過還要這個安全檢查然後還有地層斷層的這個處理然後甚至呢最後還有經費核廢料等等其實這個算起來費用很高也要花很久的時間所以其實最後淨離的目標是沒有辦法\n178955\t196666\t您專業環境部長的意見您是認為核能的確是對淨零碳排有幫助但是背後還有很多事情需要處理剛剛您的意思是這樣子對 要很多錢還要花很多的時間不是說明天就可以繼續用了所以這個基本上這個是我們沒有辦法掌控的所以那時候我們推淨零的時候沒有把它放進去\n196886\t213181\t好那再來呢因為您當天除了稍微聊到國安以外您說呢這個中央沒有非核家園的信仰也沒有也不是所謂行政團隊的神主牌所以你們說這個政府的態度是很開放的\n214322\t240995\t請問您講的這個中央代表的是什麼中央因為現在中央政府的中央跟民進黨黨主席的中央是同一個中央您這個提到的這個是指我們行政團隊因為委員在大院的時候包含卓院長或是總統在氣候變遷對策委員會也曾經多說過非二加元不是神主牌之類的話所以其實我是就是引述而已並沒有說這個是我們政策上有很大的轉彎並沒有轉彎\n242236\t255761\t但因為我們現在總統同時也是民進黨的黨主席嘛所以你的意思是說行政團隊的這個中央團隊認為非核家園已經不再是神主牌所以代表說你們也有可能會轉彎沒有就是說我們很開放的來討論這個事情開放的來討論對對對\n260563\t269431\t那另外您在這個訪談您是當Keynote Speaker嘛所以您也有提到說SMR的這個問題所以因為我們現在剛好面臨國人非常關心的90天關稅談判而賴總統也有提到說能源是我們談判的籌碼之一請問這個SMR是不是你們內部也開始有在討論是不是關稅談判的籌碼之一呢\n285985\t302747\t包括因為能源或是核能或是核廢料真的不是我們環境部主管的單位可能是經濟部但是您聊蠻多的但是因為我們是關心淨零所以我們的確是很認真的去做瞭解那以現在全世界SMR目前最快最快可以商轉可能是2030年\n304589\t327147\t這個我的意思是說在談判的籌碼能源SMR列入談判的籌碼跟它什麼時候開始相轉我想這是兩回事吧那既然您參加的這些委員會可能也同時都涵蓋有經濟部的部長也涵蓋有和安會等等你們全部都會一起參加這些會議嘛所以我也想知道說大家是不是都跟您有一樣的想法因為您對於SMR也蠻多看法的\n330109\t356014\t的確它的確是一個新的這個新的技術但是也跟委員報告他蠻貴的這個其實目前最新的一個美國的new scale的2030年完工的大概一個機組462M大概就要花到105億美元這個其實很貴還不如蓋一個新的所以基本上不管是SMR或是一種核能的重啟或研議其實第一個他費用第二個是說他跟社會的溝通的成本還有各種核廢料其實都\n356754\t381107\t說真的還蠻困難的可是因為全民都蠻關切這個90天的貿易關稅談判嘛所以既然能源一定會是談判其中的一個選項之一所以大家也就會想要知道說SMR是不是就籌碼之一嘛目前我自己我沒有參與那個討論這個SMR的會議那我想因為目前全世界也還沒有SMR開始商轉所以應該不會列入這個\n381547\t407812\t那因為剛剛你有提到說這些核能相關的議題其實還需要很多的社會凝聚共識也要非常多的溝通所以既然能源是其中一個談判籌碼之一的話我也希望您知道談判之後呢也可以盡快的展開這些溝通好嗎好 謝謝對 因為聽起來的話我們也很擔心這個SMR它列入溝通那它也會對我們國家的能源政策造成一個蠻重大的衝擊嘛好 謝謝\n410131\t426095\t好 那下一個想問一下這個是我們今年1月底太陽能光電環屏終於納入環屏的標準那這些內容就包括以下我劃線的這也是您認同的嘛濕地 山坡地 動物保護區等等潮間帶你覺得這樣子夠嗎\n429315\t449634\t有沒有遺漏的報告委員其實環評有兩個目的世界主管機關一個是例如說經濟部像能源署就是主管機關之一他們有他們的生態檢核的機制那我們是超過一定的量大就要送到我們這邊環評所以基本上目前是我們有參考其他國家和日本的進行方式那這是我去年執行的內容我們也稍微播放一下\n452113\t467096\t因為你剛提到量我們等一下也會來討論量放在屋頂上可以費率比較高嘛所以就很多人其實他覺得餘溫結果他故意去架了一個屋頂然後再放到屋頂上這個我想你們都已經知道了啦計算起來呢這些\n467717\t493258\t不需要做環射檢核的屋頂加起來已經1117公頃好我們來對比之前你說需要環評有一個高爾夫球場曾經接受過很嚴重的環評很詳細的環評才52公頃結果剛剛大家都說這個屋頂上有多好我們獎勵他們結果1117公頃現在都沒有人在管他們這個是很違背一般人民的認知現在許多人是假養殖在增重店\n495973\t498515\t好 剛剛你有講到量嘛很明顯的這些屋頂上的量是很大的喔全部統計起來是非常大的那這邊呢 是許多多人民也有跟我們反映啦等一下我會給你看一個澄清我們先看 你在規定風力發電\n520151\t549000\t你在規定水利發電你在規定核能潮汐地熱後面從來就沒有一個單書沒有這種括號的東西出現可是呢針對這個其實國人最在意的許許多多弊案而且利益牽扯最複雜的光點你後面有這一大段的括號單書寫不含設置於屋頂上或屬其他開發行為附屬等等事業主管機關確認者就是你剛提到的經濟部\n550600\t567646\t為什麼為什麼第一個是屋頂上本來就是沒有限制甚至說餘溫上面這個餘電共生那個就是不用去做特別的環評那個是目的世界主管機關他經過這個生態檢核過後其實他有他的標準那目前是不用經過環評\n568866\t588865\t好但這個也是我們許許多啦許多人那人民啊他們已經不堪其擾這個社區進去到處就是光電板像狗皮膏藥一樣好在這邊第六點你看我曾經質詢過蘇清玄招委也帶著環境部一起去看現在屏東是什麼樣子\n590166\t615618\t那當然你剛剛說屬於經濟部的核可就不用環評結果呢我們都發現他們是砍樹來放光電板那你還把這些大家最在意的你知道很多餘溫因為放了光電板已經變成一灘臭水變成這樣子這些也是你走訪中南部所看到的也是我們中南部現在鄉親很在意的啊\n617064\t621661\t結果你在修改的時候還特別列了一個其他能源政策都沒有的單數\n623188\t649145\t包委員這個其實是第一個是造林一個是平地一個是山坡地例如說像蘇委員說的就是山坡地它是15公頃以上或是20M就要還平所以基本上有一定的單數那個因為那個是很早期弄的的確那時候沒有任何的限制那現在是有了而且加嚴了好那這邊我們看因為你第一片這個slide你就說提到量你覺得這個光電板的量但你看這邊\n650606\t656671\t你既然他已經是但書了以外然後他卻是近幾年來越來越多從108年到112年屋頂上比地面型還要多超過現在併網的一半結果你變相還加一個但書你覺得113年 114年 115年你會怎麼預期他屋頂型會不會越來越多\n671494\t696711\t屋頂型基本上是應該是被鼓勵的因為他不是說從現有的農地或是說各種的新開發的林地去做改變屋頂型是基本上是被鼓勵的而且我們的獎勵被鼓勵但是也需要受到環境部的規範嗎基本上目前是不用做因為屋頂型的這個量其實他不會不會太大但是而且是個別個別小的剛已經跟你說他是病亡一半好這邊啊\n698174\t721539\t你們在做這個預告的時候其實你們有附上一個email你有提到說60日內請提供建議等等那為什麼我會詢問你這件事就是因為我們有收到一位中南部阿貝的陳情他的意思是說他已經受不了了他走進他的社區到處就是而且還蓋在水溝上根本沒有什麼環境部的管制嘛那這是去年8月他把這整封信貼給我們\n722759\t740345\t他講到說很多屋頂上的光點他反映給你們知道是假屋頂型只是因為設置的條件比較寬鬆所以故意蓋一個屋頂就明明他那邊其實不需要屋頂他為了做屋頂型又去硬扯一個鐵皮屋蓋了一個屋頂那反而很妨害下面的生態\n741305\t763041\t但因為他是不需要你們的檢核而且費率還比地面型還要高所以就變成一個變相的發財之道難怪申請量暴增結果你們公告的草案竟然直接去免去屋頂型的環評成為大漏洞所以請將以上的建議納入並且考慮修正結果你知道嗎這封信已讀不回\n764022\t775555\t所以我也搞不太清楚你們叫大家寄信到你們這個可能是林彥祺的信箱然後說要參考大家的修正意見那已讀不回所以你們到底有沒有納入\n779479\t802578\t這個我們會再跟能源署再來做協調因為這個部分屋頂型的光電是主要是他們有他們的一個機制生態檢核的機制然後是由這個能源署在主管的所以我們會再來瞭解好不好這個案例這個幾個案例這是未來的政策請問你們在這段期間是不是也陸續收到許多意見有沒有你們有回覆嗎還是全部都沒有回覆\n803018\t825672\t跟委員報告剛剛您提到的那個就是公開徵詢意見是在我們預告期間收集的各界意見那我們收集的意見以後其實也有開公聽演商會然後也會跟各個相關的行政機關做研究所以也不是說所有收到陳情的意見我們都會在最後修法定案的時候去採納因為這可能要綜合很多的意見我知道你們不一定要採納但是你們可能也要回復一下人家\n826512\t852253\t因為本來阿伯是希望你們可以他希望帶你們去看他的社區或是拍一些照片給你們但就全部沒有回覆結果最後就直接上路了是這個我們在會後我們再瞭解一下因為有很多意見其實我們有最後有做一個回應的表然後可能在這個這個案例我們去了解一下那個陳情人的意見我們是不是有收到那之後再跟你們繼續追蹤這個屋頂型的好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席\n","txt":"這邊是蠻多人關注的您最近對外的一些發言所以\n今天我也趕快熟讀一下您的發言所以本席第一個想問的問題是說您在前幾天出席國家安全防衛任性委員會出來之後呢您認為說許多委員都有達到一樣的共識對於台灣如果應對能源封鎖的話針對國安的風險在考量國安應該要保留核能這是您說的嗎\n包委員那個媒體報導有錯第一個這個全方位任性還沒有開我是說這個國家安全不是我們氣候變遷這個所阻擋的這個應該從那個委員會可以去做討論所以其實我當天說得很清楚我也跟我同仁確認過我是這樣講的嗎其實他裡面可能是他把一些刪掉了\n因為這個文章中提到說現場有企業對您提問說台海若發生封鎖恐嚴重影響國安所以您表示說對進口天然氣的依賴確實涉及國安因此在討論相關議題的時候你說在你曾經參加過這樣子的委員會\n沒有沒有不是這樣講的我是說其實各種的能源包含很多的國家在推動能源政策的時候其實核能他們也是國安的一個選項之一那這個部分呢我們可以未來也可以來討論這個事情那這個討論的平台不在我們氣候變遷對策委員會是在這個全方位任性從國家安全的角度因為我們不是國家安全的單位啊所以我們其實那天我昨天是昨天我昨天他問我我這樣打的但是我很遺憾媒體是這樣寫的\n所以您是以什麼身份來聊這些您認為這個議題會在國安當中討論他們請我去做Keynote Speaker我沒有做國安的討論我是說其實在國際上的確有這樣的討論但是其實是有些國家的案例台灣還並沒有這樣的討論那您認為那您會認為因為你是環境部嘛所以您認為核能是否會對台灣的淨零碳排等等我們需要達到的這些國際任務會有幫助呢\n如果說低碳能源的話當然是有幫助不過報告委員因為當時我們訂這個減碳目標的時候核能我也看到裡面那這問題是說要法定通過還要這個安全檢查然後還有地層斷層的這個處理然後甚至呢最後還有經費核廢料等等其實這個算起來費用很高也要花很久的時間所以其實最後淨離的目標是沒有辦法\n您專業環境部長的意見您是認為核能的確是對淨零碳排有幫助但是背後還有很多事情需要處理剛剛您的意思是這樣子對 要很多錢還要花很多的時間不是說明天就可以繼續用了所以這個基本上這個是我們沒有辦法掌控的所以那時候我們推淨零的時候沒有把它放進去\n好那再來呢因為您當天除了稍微聊到國安以外您說呢這個中央沒有非核家園的信仰也沒有也不是所謂行政團隊的神主牌所以你們說這個政府的態度是很開放的\n請問您講的這個中央代表的是什麼中央因為現在中央政府的中央跟民進黨黨主席的中央是同一個中央您這個提到的這個是指我們行政團隊因為委員在大院的時候包含卓院長或是總統在氣候變遷對策委員會也曾經多說過非二加元不是神主牌之類的話所以其實我是就是引述而已並沒有說這個是我們政策上有很大的轉彎並沒有轉彎\n但因為我們現在總統同時也是民進黨的黨主席嘛所以你的意思是說行政團隊的這個中央團隊認為非核家園已經不再是神主牌所以代表說你們也有可能會轉彎沒有就是說我們很開放的來討論這個事情開放的來討論對對對\n那另外您在這個訪談您是當Keynote Speaker嘛所以您也有提到說SMR的這個問題所以因為我們現在剛好面臨國人非常關心的90天關稅談判而賴總統也有提到說能源是我們談判的籌碼之一請問這個SMR是不是你們內部也開始有在討論是不是關稅談判的籌碼之一呢\n包括因為能源或是核能或是核廢料真的不是我們環境部主管的單位可能是經濟部但是您聊蠻多的但是因為我們是關心淨零所以我們的確是很認真的去做瞭解那以現在全世界SMR目前最快最快可以商轉可能是2030年\n這個我的意思是說在談判的籌碼能源SMR列入談判的籌碼跟它什麼時候開始相轉我想這是兩回事吧那既然您參加的這些委員會可能也同時都涵蓋有經濟部的部長也涵蓋有和安會等等你們全部都會一起參加這些會議嘛所以我也想知道說大家是不是都跟您有一樣的想法因為您對於SMR也蠻多看法的\n的確它的確是一個新的這個新的技術但是也跟委員報告他蠻貴的這個其實目前最新的一個美國的new scale的2030年完工的大概一個機組462M大概就要花到105億美元這個其實很貴還不如蓋一個新的所以基本上不管是SMR或是一種核能的重啟或研議其實第一個他費用第二個是說他跟社會的溝通的成本還有各種核廢料其實都\n說真的還蠻困難的可是因為全民都蠻關切這個90天的貿易關稅談判嘛所以既然能源一定會是談判其中的一個選項之一所以大家也就會想要知道說SMR是不是就籌碼之一嘛目前我自己我沒有參與那個討論這個SMR的會議那我想因為目前全世界也還沒有SMR開始商轉所以應該不會列入這個\n那因為剛剛你有提到說這些核能相關的議題其實還需要很多的社會凝聚共識也要非常多的溝通所以既然能源是其中一個談判籌碼之一的話我也希望您知道談判之後呢也可以盡快的展開這些溝通好嗎好 謝謝對 因為聽起來的話我們也很擔心這個SMR它列入溝通那它也會對我們國家的能源政策造成一個蠻重大的衝擊嘛好 謝謝\n好 那下一個想問一下這個是我們今年1月底太陽能光電環屏終於納入環屏的標準那這些內容就包括以下我劃線的這也是您認同的嘛濕地 山坡地 動物保護區等等潮間帶你覺得這樣子夠嗎\n有沒有遺漏的報告委員其實環評有兩個目的世界主管機關一個是例如說經濟部像能源署就是主管機關之一他們有他們的生態檢核的機制那我們是超過一定的量大就要送到我們這邊環評所以基本上目前是我們有參考其他國家和日本的進行方式那這是我去年執行的內容我們也稍微播放一下\n因為你剛提到量我們等一下也會來討論量放在屋頂上可以費率比較高嘛所以就很多人其實他覺得餘溫結果他故意去架了一個屋頂然後再放到屋頂上這個我想你們都已經知道了啦計算起來呢這些\n不需要做環射檢核的屋頂加起來已經1117公頃好我們來對比之前你說需要環評有一個高爾夫球場曾經接受過很嚴重的環評很詳細的環評才52公頃結果剛剛大家都說這個屋頂上有多好我們獎勵他們結果1117公頃現在都沒有人在管他們這個是很違背一般人民的認知現在許多人是假養殖在增重店\n好 剛剛你有講到量嘛很明顯的這些屋頂上的量是很大的喔全部統計起來是非常大的那這邊呢 是許多多人民也有跟我們反映啦等一下我會給你看一個澄清我們先看 你在規定風力發電\n你在規定水利發電你在規定核能潮汐地熱後面從來就沒有一個單書沒有這種括號的東西出現可是呢針對這個其實國人最在意的許許多多弊案而且利益牽扯最複雜的光點你後面有這一大段的括號單書寫不含設置於屋頂上或屬其他開發行為附屬等等事業主管機關確認者就是你剛提到的經濟部\n為什麼為什麼第一個是屋頂上本來就是沒有限制甚至說餘溫上面這個餘電共生那個就是不用去做特別的環評那個是目的世界主管機關他經過這個生態檢核過後其實他有他的標準那目前是不用經過環評\n好但這個也是我們許許多啦許多人那人民啊他們已經不堪其擾這個社區進去到處就是光電板像狗皮膏藥一樣好在這邊第六點你看我曾經質詢過蘇清玄招委也帶著環境部一起去看現在屏東是什麼樣子\n那當然你剛剛說屬於經濟部的核可就不用環評結果呢我們都發現他們是砍樹來放光電板那你還把這些大家最在意的你知道很多餘溫因為放了光電板已經變成一灘臭水變成這樣子這些也是你走訪中南部所看到的也是我們中南部現在鄉親很在意的啊\n結果你在修改的時候還特別列了一個其他能源政策都沒有的單數\n包委員這個其實是第一個是造林一個是平地一個是山坡地例如說像蘇委員說的就是山坡地它是15公頃以上或是20M就要還平所以基本上有一定的單數那個因為那個是很早期弄的的確那時候沒有任何的限制那現在是有了而且加嚴了好那這邊我們看因為你第一片這個slide你就說提到量你覺得這個光電板的量但你看這邊\n你既然他已經是但書了以外然後他卻是近幾年來越來越多從108年到112年屋頂上比地面型還要多超過現在併網的一半結果你變相還加一個但書你覺得113年 114年 115年你會怎麼預期他屋頂型會不會越來越多\n屋頂型基本上是應該是被鼓勵的因為他不是說從現有的農地或是說各種的新開發的林地去做改變屋頂型是基本上是被鼓勵的而且我們的獎勵被鼓勵但是也需要受到環境部的規範嗎基本上目前是不用做因為屋頂型的這個量其實他不會不會太大但是而且是個別個別小的剛已經跟你說他是病亡一半好這邊啊\n你們在做這個預告的時候其實你們有附上一個email你有提到說60日內請提供建議等等那為什麼我會詢問你這件事就是因為我們有收到一位中南部阿貝的陳情他的意思是說他已經受不了了他走進他的社區到處就是而且還蓋在水溝上根本沒有什麼環境部的管制嘛那這是去年8月他把這整封信貼給我們\n他講到說很多屋頂上的光點他反映給你們知道是假屋頂型只是因為設置的條件比較寬鬆所以故意蓋一個屋頂就明明他那邊其實不需要屋頂他為了做屋頂型又去硬扯一個鐵皮屋蓋了一個屋頂那反而很妨害下面的生態\n但因為他是不需要你們的檢核而且費率還比地面型還要高所以就變成一個變相的發財之道難怪申請量暴增結果你們公告的草案竟然直接去免去屋頂型的環評成為大漏洞所以請將以上的建議納入並且考慮修正結果你知道嗎這封信已讀不回\n所以我也搞不太清楚你們叫大家寄信到你們這個可能是林彥祺的信箱然後說要參考大家的修正意見那已讀不回所以你們到底有沒有納入\n這個我們會再跟能源署再來做協調因為這個部分屋頂型的光電是主要是他們有他們的一個機制生態檢核的機制然後是由這個能源署在主管的所以我們會再來瞭解好不好這個案例這個幾個案例這是未來的政策請問你們在這段期間是不是也陸續收到許多意見有沒有你們有回覆嗎還是全部都沒有回覆\n跟委員報告剛剛您提到的那個就是公開徵詢意見是在我們預告期間收集的各界意見那我們收集的意見以後其實也有開公聽演商會然後也會跟各個相關的行政機關做研究所以也不是說所有收到陳情的意見我們都會在最後修法定案的時候去採納因為這可能要綜合很多的意見我知道你們不一定要採納但是你們可能也要回復一下人家\n因為本來阿伯是希望你們可以他希望帶你們去看他的社區或是拍一些照片給你們但就全部沒有回覆結果最後就直接上路了是這個我們在會後我們再瞭解一下因為有很多意見其實我們有最後有做一個回應的表然後可能在這個這個案例我們去了解一下那個陳情人的意見我們是不是有收到那之後再跟你們繼續追蹤這個屋頂型的好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.122 --> 00:08.822\n這邊是蠻多人關注的您最近對外的一些發言所以\n\n00:30.899 --> 00:56.666\n今天我也趕快熟讀一下您的發言所以本席第一個想問的問題是說您在前幾天出席國家安全防衛任性委員會出來之後呢您認為說許多委員都有達到一樣的共識對於台灣如果應對能源封鎖的話針對國安的風險在考量國安應該要保留核能這是您說的嗎\n\n00:57.606 --> 01:18.266\n包委員那個媒體報導有錯第一個這個全方位任性還沒有開我是說這個國家安全不是我們氣候變遷這個所阻擋的這個應該從那個委員會可以去做討論所以其實我當天說得很清楚我也跟我同仁確認過我是這樣講的嗎其實他裡面可能是他把一些刪掉了\n\n01:18.686 --> 01:34.602\n因為這個文章中提到說現場有企業對您提問說台海若發生封鎖恐嚴重影響國安所以您表示說對進口天然氣的依賴確實涉及國安因此在討論相關議題的時候你說在你曾經參加過這樣子的委員會\n\n01:39.927 --> 02:05.901\n沒有沒有不是這樣講的我是說其實各種的能源包含很多的國家在推動能源政策的時候其實核能他們也是國安的一個選項之一那這個部分呢我們可以未來也可以來討論這個事情那這個討論的平台不在我們氣候變遷對策委員會是在這個全方位任性從國家安全的角度因為我們不是國家安全的單位啊所以我們其實那天我昨天是昨天我昨天他問我我這樣打的但是我很遺憾媒體是這樣寫的\n\n02:06.721 --> 02:34.933\n所以您是以什麼身份來聊這些您認為這個議題會在國安當中討論他們請我去做KeynoteSpeaker我沒有做國安的討論我是說其實在國際上的確有這樣的討論但是其實是有些國家的案例台灣還並沒有這樣的討論那您認為那您會認為因為你是環境部嘛所以您認為核能是否會對台灣的淨零碳排等等我們需要達到的這些國際任務會有幫助呢\n\n02:35.593 --> 02:58.515\n如果說低碳能源的話當然是有幫助不過報告委員因為當時我們訂這個減碳目標的時候核能我也看到裡面那這問題是說要法定通過還要這個安全檢查然後還有地層斷層的這個處理然後甚至呢最後還有經費核廢料等等其實這個算起來費用很高也要花很久的時間所以其實最後淨離的目標是沒有辦法\n\n02:58.955 --> 03:16.666\n您專業環境部長的意見您是認為核能的確是對淨零碳排有幫助但是背後還有很多事情需要處理剛剛您的意思是這樣子對要很多錢還要花很多的時間不是說明天就可以繼續用了所以這個基本上這個是我們沒有辦法掌控的所以那時候我們推淨零的時候沒有把它放進去\n\n03:16.886 --> 03:33.181\n好那再來呢因為您當天除了稍微聊到國安以外您說呢這個中央沒有非核家園的信仰也沒有也不是所謂行政團隊的神主牌所以你們說這個政府的態度是很開放的\n\n03:34.322 --> 04:00.995\n請問您講的這個中央代表的是什麼中央因為現在中央政府的中央跟民進黨黨主席的中央是同一個中央您這個提到的這個是指我們行政團隊因為委員在大院的時候包含卓院長或是總統在氣候變遷對策委員會也曾經多說過非二加元不是神主牌之類的話所以其實我是就是引述而已並沒有說這個是我們政策上有很大的轉彎並沒有轉彎\n\n04:02.236 --> 04:15.761\n但因為我們現在總統同時也是民進黨的黨主席嘛所以你的意思是說行政團隊的這個中央團隊認為非核家園已經不再是神主牌所以代表說你們也有可能會轉彎沒有就是說我們很開放的來討論這個事情開放的來討論對對對\n\n04:20.563 --> 04:29.431\n那另外您在這個訪談您是當KeynoteSpeaker嘛所以您也有提到說SMR的這個問題所以因為我們現在剛好面臨國人非常關心的90天關稅談判而賴總統也有提到說能源是我們談判的籌碼之一請問這個SMR是不是你們內部也開始有在討論是不是關稅談判的籌碼之一呢\n\n04:45.985 --> 05:02.747\n包括因為能源或是核能或是核廢料真的不是我們環境部主管的單位可能是經濟部但是您聊蠻多的但是因為我們是關心淨零所以我們的確是很認真的去做瞭解那以現在全世界SMR目前最快最快可以商轉可能是2030年\n\n05:04.589 --> 05:27.147\n這個我的意思是說在談判的籌碼能源SMR列入談判的籌碼跟它什麼時候開始相轉我想這是兩回事吧那既然您參加的這些委員會可能也同時都涵蓋有經濟部的部長也涵蓋有和安會等等你們全部都會一起參加這些會議嘛所以我也想知道說大家是不是都跟您有一樣的想法因為您對於SMR也蠻多看法的\n\n05:30.109 --> 05:56.014\n的確它的確是一個新的這個新的技術但是也跟委員報告他蠻貴的這個其實目前最新的一個美國的newscale的2030年完工的大概一個機組462M大概就要花到105億美元這個其實很貴還不如蓋一個新的所以基本上不管是SMR或是一種核能的重啟或研議其實第一個他費用第二個是說他跟社會的溝通的成本還有各種核廢料其實都\n\n05:56.754 --> 06:21.107\n說真的還蠻困難的可是因為全民都蠻關切這個90天的貿易關稅談判嘛所以既然能源一定會是談判其中的一個選項之一所以大家也就會想要知道說SMR是不是就籌碼之一嘛目前我自己我沒有參與那個討論這個SMR的會議那我想因為目前全世界也還沒有SMR開始商轉所以應該不會列入這個\n\n06:21.547 --> 06:47.812\n那因為剛剛你有提到說這些核能相關的議題其實還需要很多的社會凝聚共識也要非常多的溝通所以既然能源是其中一個談判籌碼之一的話我也希望您知道談判之後呢也可以盡快的展開這些溝通好嗎好謝謝對因為聽起來的話我們也很擔心這個SMR它列入溝通那它也會對我們國家的能源政策造成一個蠻重大的衝擊嘛好謝謝\n\n06:50.131 --> 07:06.095\n好那下一個想問一下這個是我們今年1月底太陽能光電環屏終於納入環屏的標準那這些內容就包括以下我劃線的這也是您認同的嘛濕地山坡地動物保護區等等潮間帶你覺得這樣子夠嗎\n\n07:09.315 --> 07:29.634\n有沒有遺漏的報告委員其實環評有兩個目的世界主管機關一個是例如說經濟部像能源署就是主管機關之一他們有他們的生態檢核的機制那我們是超過一定的量大就要送到我們這邊環評所以基本上目前是我們有參考其他國家和日本的進行方式那這是我去年執行的內容我們也稍微播放一下\n\n07:32.113 --> 07:47.096\n因為你剛提到量我們等一下也會來討論量放在屋頂上可以費率比較高嘛所以就很多人其實他覺得餘溫結果他故意去架了一個屋頂然後再放到屋頂上這個我想你們都已經知道了啦計算起來呢這些\n\n07:47.717 --> 08:13.258\n不需要做環射檢核的屋頂加起來已經1117公頃好我們來對比之前你說需要環評有一個高爾夫球場曾經接受過很嚴重的環評很詳細的環評才52公頃結果剛剛大家都說這個屋頂上有多好我們獎勵他們結果1117公頃現在都沒有人在管他們這個是很違背一般人民的認知現在許多人是假養殖在增重店\n\n08:15.973 --> 08:18.515\n好剛剛你有講到量嘛很明顯的這些屋頂上的量是很大的喔全部統計起來是非常大的那這邊呢是許多多人民也有跟我們反映啦等一下我會給你看一個澄清我們先看你在規定風力發電\n\n08:40.151 --> 09:09.000\n你在規定水利發電你在規定核能潮汐地熱後面從來就沒有一個單書沒有這種括號的東西出現可是呢針對這個其實國人最在意的許許多多弊案而且利益牽扯最複雜的光點你後面有這一大段的括號單書寫不含設置於屋頂上或屬其他開發行為附屬等等事業主管機關確認者就是你剛提到的經濟部\n\n09:10.600 --> 09:27.646\n為什麼為什麼第一個是屋頂上本來就是沒有限制甚至說餘溫上面這個餘電共生那個就是不用去做特別的環評那個是目的世界主管機關他經過這個生態檢核過後其實他有他的標準那目前是不用經過環評\n\n09:28.866 --> 09:48.865\n好但這個也是我們許許多啦許多人那人民啊他們已經不堪其擾這個社區進去到處就是光電板像狗皮膏藥一樣好在這邊第六點你看我曾經質詢過蘇清玄招委也帶著環境部一起去看現在屏東是什麼樣子\n\n09:50.166 --> 10:15.618\n那當然你剛剛說屬於經濟部的核可就不用環評結果呢我們都發現他們是砍樹來放光電板那你還把這些大家最在意的你知道很多餘溫因為放了光電板已經變成一灘臭水變成這樣子這些也是你走訪中南部所看到的也是我們中南部現在鄉親很在意的啊\n\n10:17.064 --> 10:21.661\n結果你在修改的時候還特別列了一個其他能源政策都沒有的單數\n\n10:23.188 --> 10:49.145\n包委員這個其實是第一個是造林一個是平地一個是山坡地例如說像蘇委員說的就是山坡地它是15公頃以上或是20M就要還平所以基本上有一定的單數那個因為那個是很早期弄的的確那時候沒有任何的限制那現在是有了而且加嚴了好那這邊我們看因為你第一片這個slide你就說提到量你覺得這個光電板的量但你看這邊\n\n10:50.606 --> 10:56.671\n你既然他已經是但書了以外然後他卻是近幾年來越來越多從108年到112年屋頂上比地面型還要多超過現在併網的一半結果你變相還加一個但書你覺得113年114年115年你會怎麼預期他屋頂型會不會越來越多\n\n11:11.494 --> 11:36.711\n屋頂型基本上是應該是被鼓勵的因為他不是說從現有的農地或是說各種的新開發的林地去做改變屋頂型是基本上是被鼓勵的而且我們的獎勵被鼓勵但是也需要受到環境部的規範嗎基本上目前是不用做因為屋頂型的這個量其實他不會不會太大但是而且是個別個別小的剛已經跟你說他是病亡一半好這邊啊\n\n11:38.174 --> 12:01.539\n你們在做這個預告的時候其實你們有附上一個email你有提到說60日內請提供建議等等那為什麼我會詢問你這件事就是因為我們有收到一位中南部阿貝的陳情他的意思是說他已經受不了了他走進他的社區到處就是而且還蓋在水溝上根本沒有什麼環境部的管制嘛那這是去年8月他把這整封信貼給我們\n\n12:02.759 --> 12:20.345\n他講到說很多屋頂上的光點他反映給你們知道是假屋頂型只是因為設置的條件比較寬鬆所以故意蓋一個屋頂就明明他那邊其實不需要屋頂他為了做屋頂型又去硬扯一個鐵皮屋蓋了一個屋頂那反而很妨害下面的生態\n\n12:21.305 --> 12:43.041\n但因為他是不需要你們的檢核而且費率還比地面型還要高所以就變成一個變相的發財之道難怪申請量暴增結果你們公告的草案竟然直接去免去屋頂型的環評成為大漏洞所以請將以上的建議納入並且考慮修正結果你知道嗎這封信已讀不回\n\n12:44.022 --> 12:55.555\n所以我也搞不太清楚你們叫大家寄信到你們這個可能是林彥祺的信箱然後說要參考大家的修正意見那已讀不回所以你們到底有沒有納入\n\n12:59.479 --> 13:22.578\n這個我們會再跟能源署再來做協調因為這個部分屋頂型的光電是主要是他們有他們的一個機制生態檢核的機制然後是由這個能源署在主管的所以我們會再來瞭解好不好這個案例這個幾個案例這是未來的政策請問你們在這段期間是不是也陸續收到許多意見有沒有你們有回覆嗎還是全部都沒有回覆\n\n13:23.018 --> 13:45.672\n跟委員報告剛剛您提到的那個就是公開徵詢意見是在我們預告期間收集的各界意見那我們收集的意見以後其實也有開公聽演商會然後也會跟各個相關的行政機關做研究所以也不是說所有收到陳情的意見我們都會在最後修法定案的時候去採納因為這可能要綜合很多的意見我知道你們不一定要採納但是你們可能也要回復一下人家\n\n13:46.512 --> 14:12.253\n因為本來阿伯是希望你們可以他希望帶你們去看他的社區或是拍一些照片給你們但就全部沒有回覆結果最後就直接上路了是這個我們在會後我們再瞭解一下因為有很多意見其實我們有最後有做一個回應的表然後可能在這個這個案例我們去了解一下那個陳情人的意見我們是不是有收到那之後再跟你們繼續追蹤這個屋頂型的好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.122,"end":8.822,"text":"這邊是蠻多人關注的您最近對外的一些發言所以"},{"start":30.899,"end":56.666,"text":"今天我也趕快熟讀一下您的發言所以本席第一個想問的問題是說您在前幾天出席國家安全防衛任性委員會出來之後呢您認為說許多委員都有達到一樣的共識對於台灣如果應對能源封鎖的話針對國安的風險在考量國安應該要保留核能這是您說的嗎"},{"start":57.606,"end":78.266,"text":"包委員那個媒體報導有錯第一個這個全方位任性還沒有開我是說這個國家安全不是我們氣候變遷這個所阻擋的這個應該從那個委員會可以去做討論所以其實我當天說得很清楚我也跟我同仁確認過我是這樣講的嗎其實他裡面可能是他把一些刪掉了"},{"start":78.686,"end":94.602,"text":"因為這個文章中提到說現場有企業對您提問說台海若發生封鎖恐嚴重影響國安所以您表示說對進口天然氣的依賴確實涉及國安因此在討論相關議題的時候你說在你曾經參加過這樣子的委員會"},{"start":99.927,"end":125.901,"text":"沒有沒有不是這樣講的我是說其實各種的能源包含很多的國家在推動能源政策的時候其實核能他們也是國安的一個選項之一那這個部分呢我們可以未來也可以來討論這個事情那這個討論的平台不在我們氣候變遷對策委員會是在這個全方位任性從國家安全的角度因為我們不是國家安全的單位啊所以我們其實那天我昨天是昨天我昨天他問我我這樣打的但是我很遺憾媒體是這樣寫的"},{"start":126.721,"end":154.933,"text":"所以您是以什麼身份來聊這些您認為這個議題會在國安當中討論他們請我去做Keynote Speaker我沒有做國安的討論我是說其實在國際上的確有這樣的討論但是其實是有些國家的案例台灣還並沒有這樣的討論那您認為那您會認為因為你是環境部嘛所以您認為核能是否會對台灣的淨零碳排等等我們需要達到的這些國際任務會有幫助呢"},{"start":155.593,"end":178.515,"text":"如果說低碳能源的話當然是有幫助不過報告委員因為當時我們訂這個減碳目標的時候核能我也看到裡面那這問題是說要法定通過還要這個安全檢查然後還有地層斷層的這個處理然後甚至呢最後還有經費核廢料等等其實這個算起來費用很高也要花很久的時間所以其實最後淨離的目標是沒有辦法"},{"start":178.955,"end":196.666,"text":"您專業環境部長的意見您是認為核能的確是對淨零碳排有幫助但是背後還有很多事情需要處理剛剛您的意思是這樣子對 要很多錢還要花很多的時間不是說明天就可以繼續用了所以這個基本上這個是我們沒有辦法掌控的所以那時候我們推淨零的時候沒有把它放進去"},{"start":196.886,"end":213.181,"text":"好那再來呢因為您當天除了稍微聊到國安以外您說呢這個中央沒有非核家園的信仰也沒有也不是所謂行政團隊的神主牌所以你們說這個政府的態度是很開放的"},{"start":214.322,"end":240.995,"text":"請問您講的這個中央代表的是什麼中央因為現在中央政府的中央跟民進黨黨主席的中央是同一個中央您這個提到的這個是指我們行政團隊因為委員在大院的時候包含卓院長或是總統在氣候變遷對策委員會也曾經多說過非二加元不是神主牌之類的話所以其實我是就是引述而已並沒有說這個是我們政策上有很大的轉彎並沒有轉彎"},{"start":242.236,"end":255.761,"text":"但因為我們現在總統同時也是民進黨的黨主席嘛所以你的意思是說行政團隊的這個中央團隊認為非核家園已經不再是神主牌所以代表說你們也有可能會轉彎沒有就是說我們很開放的來討論這個事情開放的來討論對對對"},{"start":260.563,"end":269.431,"text":"那另外您在這個訪談您是當Keynote Speaker嘛所以您也有提到說SMR的這個問題所以因為我們現在剛好面臨國人非常關心的90天關稅談判而賴總統也有提到說能源是我們談判的籌碼之一請問這個SMR是不是你們內部也開始有在討論是不是關稅談判的籌碼之一呢"},{"start":285.985,"end":302.747,"text":"包括因為能源或是核能或是核廢料真的不是我們環境部主管的單位可能是經濟部但是您聊蠻多的但是因為我們是關心淨零所以我們的確是很認真的去做瞭解那以現在全世界SMR目前最快最快可以商轉可能是2030年"},{"start":304.589,"end":327.147,"text":"這個我的意思是說在談判的籌碼能源SMR列入談判的籌碼跟它什麼時候開始相轉我想這是兩回事吧那既然您參加的這些委員會可能也同時都涵蓋有經濟部的部長也涵蓋有和安會等等你們全部都會一起參加這些會議嘛所以我也想知道說大家是不是都跟您有一樣的想法因為您對於SMR也蠻多看法的"},{"start":330.109,"end":356.014,"text":"的確它的確是一個新的這個新的技術但是也跟委員報告他蠻貴的這個其實目前最新的一個美國的new scale的2030年完工的大概一個機組462M大概就要花到105億美元這個其實很貴還不如蓋一個新的所以基本上不管是SMR或是一種核能的重啟或研議其實第一個他費用第二個是說他跟社會的溝通的成本還有各種核廢料其實都"},{"start":356.754,"end":381.107,"text":"說真的還蠻困難的可是因為全民都蠻關切這個90天的貿易關稅談判嘛所以既然能源一定會是談判其中的一個選項之一所以大家也就會想要知道說SMR是不是就籌碼之一嘛目前我自己我沒有參與那個討論這個SMR的會議那我想因為目前全世界也還沒有SMR開始商轉所以應該不會列入這個"},{"start":381.547,"end":407.812,"text":"那因為剛剛你有提到說這些核能相關的議題其實還需要很多的社會凝聚共識也要非常多的溝通所以既然能源是其中一個談判籌碼之一的話我也希望您知道談判之後呢也可以盡快的展開這些溝通好嗎好 謝謝對 因為聽起來的話我們也很擔心這個SMR它列入溝通那它也會對我們國家的能源政策造成一個蠻重大的衝擊嘛好 謝謝"},{"start":410.131,"end":426.095,"text":"好 那下一個想問一下這個是我們今年1月底太陽能光電環屏終於納入環屏的標準那這些內容就包括以下我劃線的這也是您認同的嘛濕地 山坡地 動物保護區等等潮間帶你覺得這樣子夠嗎"},{"start":429.315,"end":449.634,"text":"有沒有遺漏的報告委員其實環評有兩個目的世界主管機關一個是例如說經濟部像能源署就是主管機關之一他們有他們的生態檢核的機制那我們是超過一定的量大就要送到我們這邊環評所以基本上目前是我們有參考其他國家和日本的進行方式那這是我去年執行的內容我們也稍微播放一下"},{"start":452.113,"end":467.096,"text":"因為你剛提到量我們等一下也會來討論量放在屋頂上可以費率比較高嘛所以就很多人其實他覺得餘溫結果他故意去架了一個屋頂然後再放到屋頂上這個我想你們都已經知道了啦計算起來呢這些"},{"start":467.717,"end":493.258,"text":"不需要做環射檢核的屋頂加起來已經1117公頃好我們來對比之前你說需要環評有一個高爾夫球場曾經接受過很嚴重的環評很詳細的環評才52公頃結果剛剛大家都說這個屋頂上有多好我們獎勵他們結果1117公頃現在都沒有人在管他們這個是很違背一般人民的認知現在許多人是假養殖在增重店"},{"start":495.973,"end":498.515,"text":"好 剛剛你有講到量嘛很明顯的這些屋頂上的量是很大的喔全部統計起來是非常大的那這邊呢 是許多多人民也有跟我們反映啦等一下我會給你看一個澄清我們先看 你在規定風力發電"},{"start":520.151,"end":549,"text":"你在規定水利發電你在規定核能潮汐地熱後面從來就沒有一個單書沒有這種括號的東西出現可是呢針對這個其實國人最在意的許許多多弊案而且利益牽扯最複雜的光點你後面有這一大段的括號單書寫不含設置於屋頂上或屬其他開發行為附屬等等事業主管機關確認者就是你剛提到的經濟部"},{"start":550.6,"end":567.646,"text":"為什麼為什麼第一個是屋頂上本來就是沒有限制甚至說餘溫上面這個餘電共生那個就是不用去做特別的環評那個是目的世界主管機關他經過這個生態檢核過後其實他有他的標準那目前是不用經過環評"},{"start":568.866,"end":588.865,"text":"好但這個也是我們許許多啦許多人那人民啊他們已經不堪其擾這個社區進去到處就是光電板像狗皮膏藥一樣好在這邊第六點你看我曾經質詢過蘇清玄招委也帶著環境部一起去看現在屏東是什麼樣子"},{"start":590.166,"end":615.618,"text":"那當然你剛剛說屬於經濟部的核可就不用環評結果呢我們都發現他們是砍樹來放光電板那你還把這些大家最在意的你知道很多餘溫因為放了光電板已經變成一灘臭水變成這樣子這些也是你走訪中南部所看到的也是我們中南部現在鄉親很在意的啊"},{"start":617.064,"end":621.661,"text":"結果你在修改的時候還特別列了一個其他能源政策都沒有的單數"},{"start":623.188,"end":649.145,"text":"包委員這個其實是第一個是造林一個是平地一個是山坡地例如說像蘇委員說的就是山坡地它是15公頃以上或是20M就要還平所以基本上有一定的單數那個因為那個是很早期弄的的確那時候沒有任何的限制那現在是有了而且加嚴了好那這邊我們看因為你第一片這個slide你就說提到量你覺得這個光電板的量但你看這邊"},{"start":650.606,"end":656.671,"text":"你既然他已經是但書了以外然後他卻是近幾年來越來越多從108年到112年屋頂上比地面型還要多超過現在併網的一半結果你變相還加一個但書你覺得113年 114年 115年你會怎麼預期他屋頂型會不會越來越多"},{"start":671.494,"end":696.711,"text":"屋頂型基本上是應該是被鼓勵的因為他不是說從現有的農地或是說各種的新開發的林地去做改變屋頂型是基本上是被鼓勵的而且我們的獎勵被鼓勵但是也需要受到環境部的規範嗎基本上目前是不用做因為屋頂型的這個量其實他不會不會太大但是而且是個別個別小的剛已經跟你說他是病亡一半好這邊啊"},{"start":698.174,"end":721.539,"text":"你們在做這個預告的時候其實你們有附上一個email你有提到說60日內請提供建議等等那為什麼我會詢問你這件事就是因為我們有收到一位中南部阿貝的陳情他的意思是說他已經受不了了他走進他的社區到處就是而且還蓋在水溝上根本沒有什麼環境部的管制嘛那這是去年8月他把這整封信貼給我們"},{"start":722.759,"end":740.345,"text":"他講到說很多屋頂上的光點他反映給你們知道是假屋頂型只是因為設置的條件比較寬鬆所以故意蓋一個屋頂就明明他那邊其實不需要屋頂他為了做屋頂型又去硬扯一個鐵皮屋蓋了一個屋頂那反而很妨害下面的生態"},{"start":741.305,"end":763.041,"text":"但因為他是不需要你們的檢核而且費率還比地面型還要高所以就變成一個變相的發財之道難怪申請量暴增結果你們公告的草案竟然直接去免去屋頂型的環評成為大漏洞所以請將以上的建議納入並且考慮修正結果你知道嗎這封信已讀不回"},{"start":764.022,"end":775.555,"text":"所以我也搞不太清楚你們叫大家寄信到你們這個可能是林彥祺的信箱然後說要參考大家的修正意見那已讀不回所以你們到底有沒有納入"},{"start":779.479,"end":802.578,"text":"這個我們會再跟能源署再來做協調因為這個部分屋頂型的光電是主要是他們有他們的一個機制生態檢核的機制然後是由這個能源署在主管的所以我們會再來瞭解好不好這個案例這個幾個案例這是未來的政策請問你們在這段期間是不是也陸續收到許多意見有沒有你們有回覆嗎還是全部都沒有回覆"},{"start":803.018,"end":825.672,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛您提到的那個就是公開徵詢意見是在我們預告期間收集的各界意見那我們收集的意見以後其實也有開公聽演商會然後也會跟各個相關的行政機關做研究所以也不是說所有收到陳情的意見我們都會在最後修法定案的時候去採納因為這可能要綜合很多的意見我知道你們不一定要採納但是你們可能也要回復一下人家"},{"start":826.512,"end":852.253,"text":"因為本來阿伯是希望你們可以他希望帶你們去看他的社區或是拍一些照片給你們但就全部沒有回覆結果最後就直接上路了是這個我們在會後我們再瞭解一下因為有很多意見其實我們有最後有做一個回應的表然後可能在這個這個案例我們去了解一下那個陳情人的意見我們是不是有收到那之後再跟你們繼續追蹤這個屋頂型的好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":348,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時40分）謝謝主席，謝謝各位官員，謝謝委員。我也想請環境部部長，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：蠻多人關注您最近對外的一些發言，所以今天我也趕快熟讀一下您的發言。本席第一個想問的問題是，您前幾天出席國家安全防衛韌性委員會之後認為許多委員都有達到一樣的共識，對於臺灣如何應對能源封鎖，針對國安的風險，考量國安則應該要保留核能，這是您說的嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，那個媒體報導有錯，第一個，全社會防衛韌性還沒有開，我是說國家安全不是我們氣候變遷所阻擋的，這應該可以從那個委員會去討論，所以其實我當天說得很清楚，我也跟我同仁確認過，也問同仁我是這樣講的嗎？他們可能把一些內容刪掉了。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，因為這個文章中提到現場有企業對您提問：臺海若發生封鎖，恐嚴重影響國安。您表示對進口天然氣的依賴確實涉及國安，因此在討論相關議題的時候，你說你曾經參加過這樣子的委員會……"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，我不是這樣講的。我是說各種能源，包含很多國家在推動能源政策時，其實核能也是國安的選項之一。對於這個部分，我們未來也可以來討論這個事情，那這個討論平臺不在氣候變遷對策委員會，是在全社會防衛韌性，從國家安全的角度，因為我們不是國家安全的單位，其實他們昨天問我，我這樣答的，但我很遺憾媒體是這樣寫的。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以您是以什麼身分來聊這些，您認為這個議題可以在國安當中討論？"],["彭部長啓明：他們請我去做keynote 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speaker，所以你也提到SMR的問題，因為我們現在剛好面臨國人非常關心的90天關稅談判，賴總統也提到能源是我們談判的籌碼之一，請問這個SMR是不是在你們內部也開始討論？是不是關稅談判的籌碼之一呢？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為能源、核能或是核廢料，我們環境部真的不是主管單位，可能是經濟部……"],["陳委員菁徽：但是您聊蠻多的。"],["彭部長啓明：因為我們關心淨零，所以我們的確是很認真的去了解，以現在全世界的SMR來說，目前最快可以商轉的時間可能是2030年。"],["陳委員菁徽：我的意思是，在談判籌碼方面，我想能源SMR列入談判籌碼跟它什麼時候開始商轉是兩回事吧？既然您參加這些委員會可能同時都涵蓋有經濟部的部長，也涵蓋有核安會等等，你們全部都會一起參加這些會議，所以我也想知道，大家是不是都跟您有一樣的想法？因為您對於SMR也蠻多看法的。"],["彭部長啓明：它的確是一個新的技術，但是也跟委員報告，它蠻貴的，其實美國目前最新的newskill，大概在2030年完工的機組，462MW就要花到105億美元，這個其實很貴，還不如蓋一個新的。基本上不管是SMR或是核能的重啟或研議，第一個是費用，第二個是跟社會溝通的成本，還有各種核廢料，說真的都還蠻困難的。"],["陳委員菁徽：是的，可是因為全民都蠻關切這個90天的貿易關稅談判，既然能源一定會是其中談判的選項之一，所以大家也就會想要知道SMR是不是籌碼之一。"],["彭部長啓明：目前我沒有參與討論SMR的會議，因為目前全世界也還沒有SMR開始商轉，所以應該不會列入。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，因為剛剛你有提到核能相關的議題，其實還需要凝聚很多的社會共識，也需要非常多的溝通，既然能源是其中的一個談判籌碼的話，我也希望您知道談判之後可以儘快展開這些溝通，好嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：因為我們也很擔心SMR如果列入溝通，也會對我們國家能源政策造成蠻重大的衝擊。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，下一個想問，今年1月底太陽能光電環評終於納入環評的標準，簡報中的這些內容，包括我畫線的，這也是您認同的嘛？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：溼地、山坡地、動物保護區、潮間帶等等，你覺得這樣子夠嗎？有沒有遺漏的？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實環評有兩個目的事業主管機關，一個是經濟部，像能源署就是主管機關之一，他們有他們生態檢核的機制；那我們是超過一定的量就要送到我們這邊環評，目前我們有參考其他國家跟日本的進行方式。"],["陳委員菁徽：這是我去年質詢的內容，我們稍微播放一下。因為你剛剛提到量，我們等一下也會討論量。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員菁徽：剛剛你有講到量，很明顯的，這些屋頂上的量是很大的，全部統計起來是非常大的，這邊是許許多多人民跟我們反映的，等一下我會給你看一個陳情，我們先看你們規定風力發電、水力發電，你們在規定核能、潮汐、地熱後面從來就沒有但書，沒有括號這種東西出現，可是針對這個，其實國人最在意的是許許多多弊案，而且是利益牽扯最複雜的光電，你們在後面有一大段的括號、但書寫「不含設置於屋頂上，或屬其他開發行為之附屬……事業主管機關確認者」，也就是你剛剛提到的經濟部，為什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：第一個，屋頂上本來就沒有限制，甚至魚塭上的漁電共生也不用特別做環評，因為目的事業主管機關經過生態檢核後有其標準所在，所以目前不用經過環評。"],["陳委員菁徽：但有許多人已經不堪其擾，因為一進去社區到處都是光電板，就像狗皮膏藥一樣。你看第六點，我曾經質詢過，蘇清泉召委也帶著環境部一起去看現在屏東是什麼樣子！你剛剛說只要經濟部核可就不用環評，但我們發現他們是砍樹來放光電板，你還把大家最在意的……很多魚塭因為放了光電板，已經變成一灘臭水，變成了這樣子！這些是你走訪中南部所看到的，也是現在中南部鄉親很在意的問題，結果修改的時候，還特別列了一個其他能源政策都沒有的但書。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個是造林，而且一個是平地，一個是山坡地。例如蘇委員說的就是山坡地，凡十五公頃以上或超過20Mega就要環評，基本上有一定的但書。不過那是早期所弄的，那時確實沒有任何限制，現在已經有了，也加嚴了。"],["陳委員菁徽：你提到光電板的量，還說已經有但書。其實近幾年光電板不但越來越多，從108年到112年，屋頂型已經比地面型還多，甚至超過併網的一半，結果你竟然還變相加上但書？113年、114年、115年你會怎麼預期？屋頂型會不會越來越多？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上屋頂型應該是被鼓勵的，因為並非改變現有農地或新開發林地，所以屋頂型基本上是被鼓勵的，而且我們的獎勵措施……"],["陳委員菁徽：雖然鼓勵，但也需要受到環境部的規範啊！"],["彭部長啓明：基本上目前不用做，因為屋頂型的量不會太大，且都是個別、個別小的……"],["陳委員菁徽：我剛剛已經說過它占了併網的一半！你們在預告的時候有附上email，還說於60日內提供建議等等。為什麼我會問你這件事？因為我們收到來自中南部一位阿伯的陳情，他說已經受不了了，不僅社區裡到處都是，而且還蓋在水溝上，環境部根本沒有管制。阿伯在去年8月把整封信貼給我們，信中講到，很多屋頂型光電其實是假屋頂型，因為設置條件比較寬鬆，就故意蓋了一個屋頂。明明根本不需要屋頂，只是為了做屋頂型，所以硬是蓋了鐵皮屋屋頂，反而妨害了下面的生態。由於屋頂型不需要環境部檢核，費率也比地面型高，成了變相的發財之道，難怪申請量暴增！結果你們所公告的草案，竟然直接免去屋頂型的環評，成為大漏洞！因此，該民眾希望能將以上建議納入，並且考慮修正。部長，這封信被已讀不回，實在讓我搞不清楚！你們叫大家寄信到你們所公告的信箱，說要參考大家的修正意見，結果又已讀不回，請問你們到底有沒有納入？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這點我們會再跟能源署協調，因為屋頂型光電的生態檢核機制由能源署所主管，所以我們會再來了解，好不好？至少就這幾個案例及未來政策。"],["陳委員菁徽：請問你們在這段期間是不是有陸續收到許多意見？有沒有？你們有回復嗎？還是全部都沒有回復？"],["呂副司長雅雯：跟委員報告，剛剛委員提到的公開徵詢意見一事，是我們在預告期間所蒐集的各界意見。我們蒐集意見後，其實也有召開公聽研商會，並與各相關行政機關做研究。因此並非所有收到的陳情意見都會在最後修法定案時採納，畢竟需要綜合很多意見去考量。"],["陳委員菁徽：我知道你們不一定要採納，但你們可能需要回復一下。"],["呂副司長雅雯：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：本來阿伯是希望帶你們去看他的社區或是拍一些照片給你們看，但你們沒有回復，甚至最後就直接上路！"],["呂副司長雅雯：是，會後我們再了解一下，其實我們最後有針對很多意見做了回應表，就委員所提到的案例，我們會去了解一下陳情人的意見，看我們是不是有收到。"],["陳委員菁徽：我再繼續追蹤屋頂型的問題。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請王育敏委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}