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{\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,137 --> 00:00:09,013\n好謝謝主席那有請司法院法務部還有警政署司法院法務部警政署\n\n2\n00:00:20,930 --> 00:00:37,338\n好那我想要先看一下週末有一個新聞但是可能你們都不一定有注意到就是關於竹北涉嫌虐童的教練之前三百萬交保但是呢出境未到未到庭法院發布通緝令我不知道你們有沒有看到這個新聞\n\n3\n00:00:38,559 --> 00:01:02,535\n好有看到這個新聞那我們來看一下這件事情事實上造成非常多家長群組的恐慌大家都在問關於虐童的事件好不容易好像台灣的行政機關有了比較多積極的作為可是到底這件事情是哪裡破了洞怎麼會讓這個虐童案甚至這個人還有相關金融犯罪的事情正在審判當中但是我們就讓他出境了我們就讓他逃跑了我們來看一下事實上這個案件\n\n4\n00:01:05,157 --> 00:01:33,932\n案子是在去年的10月那我非常感谢相关的检察官在2月的部分就已经起诉了我认为非常的有效率虽然当时检察官有申请羁押可是法官当下没有裁准严押那我们在新闻里面看到其实当时这个法官如果新闻是可信当时这个法官他对于嫌犯的做法并不认同甚至法官有提到这个嫌犯有试图灭证的做法\n\n5\n00:01:34,512 --> 00:01:54,290\n所以最後呢裁定三百萬交保並且限制居住但是沒有限制出境我要再強調一次沒有限制出境所以他後來就逃跑了到三月的時候要開庭看不到人發現他逃跑了到了四月法院才公佈要沒入三百萬保證金發佈通緝還請領務局註銷他的護照\n\n6\n00:01:59,335 --> 00:02:17,922\n我想要问在这件事情上我们到底出了什么事情一个一个来我想先问法务部关于这个案件当时检察官有没有抗告对于法官所做出的没有裁准严压然后呢也没有限制出境当时这个做法检察官有没有提出抗告\n\n7\n00:02:20,427 --> 00:02:44,740\n在2月5日那個起訴醫審法院的時候那個法院那是沒有通知檢察官到庭及表達意見所以檢察官是沒有到庭陳述意見的機會那所以法官這直接就裁定300萬的一個交保跟限制秩序他每天到派出所報到這個法院這個也沒有裁定到目前為止都沒有送有裁定\n\n8\n00:02:45,200 --> 00:03:06,127\n送到檢察官所以檢到目前都完全沒有辦法去提出抗告了解了好那就您的立場喔就您的立場你覺得這個案子在這樣的處理過程上有沒有瑕疵這個以我們檢方來講我們是沒有瑕疵的對好那院方我就要請那個來回答好那我們來聽一下院方您的說法\n\n9\n00:03:10,488 --> 00:03:24,941\n這個程序部分我們可能還要再跟那個新竹地院再查明是不是這個情況查明是不是這個情況的意思是要查明什麼情況程序上就是裁定送達的問題是裁定送達的問題嗎\n\n10\n00:03:31,144 --> 00:03:43,211\n我想要請你們多說一點為什麼會發生這個事情那當時法官他們的態度到底是什麼他明明自己都說了他認為他有滅證的嫌疑而且他也不認同嫌犯的做法但是為什麼還是做出了這個裁決\n\n11\n00:03:46,422 --> 00:04:01,466\n關於那個法官就是說他怎麼決定就是要不要羈押要不要繼續延押或者是用什麼那個替代的那個處分還沒有做限制出境的處分喔這個是那個法官他們個別就是個案的那個裁量\n\n12\n00:04:01,946 --> 00:04:15,021\n那邊我們行政就是司法行政也不變智慧就是說好這個我們當然尊重我謝謝您說出司法行政我們不方便智慧但是我認為這件事情看起來其實是有問題的對不對而且現在這個人呢已經氣飽潛逃\n\n13\n00:04:17,023 --> 00:04:31,565\n那我們不知道後續虐童案的進度可是我認為這件事情其實是讓非常多家長都覺得非常不滿那個焦慮不是來自於我的小孩可能會再送到這個人手上而是我們整個司法系統為什麼對於這樣的虐童案如此的輕忽我覺得是這個態度的問題\n\n14\n00:04:33,027 --> 00:04:54,050\n好不好我覺得這個部分一定要注意不然我覺得我們做了再多關於兒少修法保護的努力但是我覺得我們家長不會有感我們的孩子也不會有感那甚至有更多的兒少代表他們也會對這件事情表達不滿到底要怎麼樣要什麼樣的強度才能讓這些不管是司法系統或者是檢調系統的人認為這件事情是重要的而且是非常非常嚴肅的\n\n15\n00:04:55,679 --> 00:05:14,875\n謝謝委員好那我想要問一下警政署我們現在有辦法掌握他的行蹤嗎我個人認為是有困難啦因為他要到派手來做報到但是他已經棄保潛逃出境他沒有來報到那我們趕快通報DM才知道他潛逃\n\n16\n00:05:15,802 --> 00:05:39,140\n就是按照正常程序當然是這樣嘛我也知道我會得到這樣的回答但是我還是要請你們說清楚因為現在有非常多公民或是家長都會看所有立法院的直播我覺得相關的責任分工一定要搞清楚到底哪裡出了差錯所以我想不管是司法院這邊或者是警政署這邊或者是法務部這邊我覺得我們應該要共同來討論這件事情真的真的非常的嚴肅再來我要問\n\n17\n00:05:41,682 --> 00:05:59,297\n他沒有被限制出境可是我要再次提醒這個人他不是只有虐童他還有涉犯金融犯罪不罰所得超過上千萬如果我們來看一下什麼樣的情況下檢察官或者是法官可以限制他限制出境出海\n\n18\n00:05:59,737 --> 00:06:28,605\n如果我們回到法規範來看我的投影片有寫得很清楚我們認為他有相當的理由或者是有逃亡之餘或者是我們認為有相當的理由認為他有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或者是勾串共犯或證人之餘者我們應該要限制出境這就是為什麼我剛剛一直請教院方為什麼法官會做出這樣的裁定我們覺得真的要給人民一個交代要給家長一個交代要給在乎兒少權利的人一個交代可不可以請院方再就這個部分回應一下\n\n19\n00:06:32,329 --> 00:06:39,643\n報告委員目前起訴到法院就是虐童這個部分那涉及金融這個部分他現在還在起訴還在偵查中\n\n20\n00:06:42,972 --> 00:07:07,742\n我當然知道還在偵查中但我要再次強調我們真的認為如果你就一般老百姓來看這個法規範大家會認為他其實就已經當時可以限制出境了可能就不會有今天這個獨家新聞跑出來然後害你們還要站在這邊被我質詢這個問題而且我要再次強調當時這個人他之所以要被羈押是因為就是檢察官對他提起所有的這些事情是因為他虐童\n\n21\n00:07:08,422 --> 00:07:31,213\n那雖然小孩現在還活著好像是看起來罪不自死可是我要說這件事情其實當時引起非常非常多的討論而且虐童案一而再再而再的發生我們來看一下社會上到底有多關注虐童案我們在公共政策倡議平台上近五年如果我們用虐童作為關鍵字光是成案的就超過九件\n\n22\n00:07:31,733 --> 00:08:00,734\n什麼意思呢我不知道各位長官你們知不知道這個公共政策平台要成案有多麼的困難基本上他比現在在街頭罷免連署的志工在做事情還要困難他用手機跟email雙認證他才可以完成這個簽署連署後面後續的連署所以呢有這麼多人在關心兒虐案這件事情我覺得整個社會語情的方向你們一定要搞清楚而不是認為他只是單一虐童個案或者是只是再一個再一個再一個並不是這樣的\n\n23\n00:08:01,354 --> 00:08:30,381\n在社會大眾的眼裡看起來是好像整個系統對於像這樣的人是包容的是縱放的或者是我們好像不是那麼積極所以我今天花這麼多時間我之所以在司法法治委員會一再問兒少這件事情就是他可能在你們過去的政策視野當中你們是很容易忽略的你們覺得就只是另外一個個案就只是另外一個個案但我要告訴你們真的不是這樣光是公共政策平台而虐兒的部分成案了有九案更不要講如果我把\n\n24\n00:08:31,461 --> 00:08:52,409\n額虐這兩個字拿掉我用更廣泛的耳哨案件來定義那就更多人在公共政策倡議平台上不斷想要告訴我們行政機關我們有多麼在意這件事情那這正巧是你們可以做的事情可以嗎好那我想喔相關的檢討報告不管是法務部司法院警政署可不可以在一個月內提交相關檢討報告\n\n25\n00:08:54,079 --> 00:09:03,801\n可以嗎那警政署也可以嗎好謝謝你們我覺得共同關心這件事情真的非常重要好謝謝請回那接下來我要請調查局我們回到今天的主題\n\n26\n00:09:06,121 --> 00:09:33,366\n好那調查局在移動的過程當中我就先說在你們的調查報告裡面我看到我非常給予肯定你們關於安全查核的對象跟法源你們做出了整理看起來其實也是給立法院相關的建議你們很重要的提到立法院還有地方自治團體等其他政府機關內具有接觸知悉持有存取或使用機敏資料的公務人員目前都不是查核對象對不對是\n\n27\n00:09:34,286 --> 00:09:56,560\n好那關於這件事情我們其實也提了相關的修法建議對不對我來看一下而且你們提到該精進的事項我覺得也講得很具體一個是救法員的部分也就是我現在頭影片寫的一跟二關於還有關於查核項目沒有列入財務信用我覺得這件事情也很重要確實在很多共點案的線索裡面我們看到當事人其實是有財務困難有財務破口的需求再來第四個\n\n28\n00:10:00,703 --> 00:10:28,713\n任職於前查核欠缺任職期間定期跟不定期的查核也就是有些人可能在入職前做了查核後續就沒有再做查核謝謝你們提出的建議那你們的針對你們這些建議你們甚至提了精進的內容第六點我的投影片上用紅色來表示我想問一下你們這個做法應該是參考美國跟德國的做法對嗎是好那你們要不要多說一下為什麼你們認為這個做法在台灣真的可行嗎\n\n29\n00:10:31,508 --> 00:10:50,166\n因為學者專家的報告是一回事但是落實在現場到底可不可行我覺得這個才是最重要的我想我們就是盡量去參考外國比較先進的這些立法例當然還要經過跨部會的一些協商還有貴院的支持\n\n30\n00:10:51,267 --> 00:11:07,855\n聽起來其實還需要很多討論但是我今天要給予調查局的報告給予高度的肯定你們找出現行的問題然後也提出具體的建議做法那我時間有限我想我就簡單的拜託調查局針對相關檢討事項跟規劃有沒有機會在一個月內相關提出相關的會議結論\n\n31\n00:11:09,816 --> 00:11:26,007\n我們可以提出我們的精進的一個建議比較詳細的做法但是跨部會的行政的協商我想因為特查辦法是由行政院人事行政總處他是主管的機關我想這個我們要尊重那個人總\n\n32\n00:11:26,527 --> 00:11:46,116\n好沒關係但是就你們自己更內部更清楚的資料可以先給我們自己跨部會的部分也許你們可以先簡單提出一個想像跟規劃我們再來看看有沒有機會促成跨部會的討論第二個相關的立法程序有沒有機會在兩個月內給我們立法院相關立法建議給司法委員會的所有委員參考是可以可以喔好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3137\t9013\t好 謝謝主席 那有請司法院 法務部 還有警政署司法院 法務部 警政署\n20930\t37338\t好 那我想要先看一下週末有一個新聞但是可能你們都不一定有注意到就是關於竹北涉嫌虐童的教練之前三百萬交保但是呢 出境未到未到庭法院發布通緝令我不知道你們有沒有看到這個新聞\n38559\t62535\t好有看到這個新聞那我們來看一下這件事情事實上造成非常多家長群組的恐慌大家都在問關於虐童的事件好不容易好像台灣的行政機關有了比較多積極的作為可是到底這件事情是哪裡破了洞怎麼會讓這個虐童案甚至這個人還有相關金融犯罪的事情正在審判當中但是我們就讓他出境了我們就讓他逃跑了我們來看一下事實上這個案件\n65157\t93932\t案子是在去年的10月那我非常感谢相关的检察官在2月的部分就已经起诉了我认为非常的有效率虽然当时检察官有申请羁押可是法官当下没有裁准严押那我们在新闻里面看到其实当时这个法官如果新闻是可信当时这个法官他对于嫌犯的做法并不认同甚至法官有提到这个嫌犯有试图灭证的做法\n94512\t114290\t所以最後呢 裁定三百萬交保 並且限制居住但是沒有限制出境 我要再強調一次 沒有限制出境所以他後來就逃跑了 到三月的時候要開庭看不到人 發現他逃跑了到了四月 法院才公佈 要沒入三百萬保證金發佈通緝 還請領務局註銷他的護照\n119335\t137922\t我想要问在这件事情上我们到底出了什么事情一个一个来我想先问法务部关于这个案件当时检察官有没有抗告对于法官所做出的没有裁准严压然后呢也没有限制出境当时这个做法检察官有没有提出抗告\n140427\t164740\t在2月5日那個起訴醫審法院的時候那個法院那是沒有通知檢察官到庭及表達意見所以檢察官是沒有到庭陳述意見的機會那所以法官這直接就裁定300萬的一個交保跟限制秩序他每天到派出所報到這個法院這個也沒有裁定到目前為止都沒有送有裁定\n165200\t186127\t送到檢察官 所以檢到目前都完全沒有辦法去提出抗告了解了 好 那就您的立場喔就您的立場 你覺得這個案子在這樣的處理過程上有沒有瑕疵這個以我們檢方來講 我們是沒有瑕疵的對好 那院方我就要請那個來回答好 那我們來聽一下院方您的說法\n190488\t204941\t這個程序部分我們可能還要再跟那個新竹地院再查明是不是這個情況查明是不是這個情況的意思是要查明什麼情況程序上就是裁定送達的問題是裁定送達的問題嗎\n211144\t223211\t我想要請你們多說一點為什麼會發生這個事情那當時法官他們的態度到底是什麼他明明自己都說了他認為他有滅證的嫌疑而且他也不認同嫌犯的做法但是為什麼還是做出了這個裁決\n226422\t241466\t關於那個法官就是說他怎麼決定就是要不要羈押要不要繼續延押或者是用什麼那個替代的那個處分還沒有做限制出境的處分喔這個是那個法官他們個別就是個案的那個裁量\n241946\t255021\t那邊我們行政就是司法行政也不變智慧就是說好這個我們當然尊重我謝謝您說出司法行政我們不方便智慧但是我認為這件事情看起來其實是有問題的對不對而且現在這個人呢已經氣飽潛逃\n257023\t271565\t那我們不知道後續虐童案的進度可是我認為這件事情其實是讓非常多家長都覺得非常不滿那個焦慮不是來自於我的小孩可能會再送到這個人手上而是我們整個司法系統為什麼對於這樣的虐童案如此的輕忽我覺得是這個態度的問題\n273027\t294050\t好不好我覺得這個部分一定要注意不然我覺得我們做了再多關於兒少修法保護的努力但是我覺得我們家長不會有感我們的孩子也不會有感那甚至有更多的兒少代表他們也會對這件事情表達不滿到底要怎麼樣要什麼樣的強度才能讓這些不管是司法系統或者是檢調系統的人認為這件事情是重要的而且是非常非常嚴肅的\n295679\t314875\t謝謝委員好 那我想要問一下警政署我們現在有辦法掌握他的行蹤嗎我個人認為是有困難啦因為他要到派手來做報到但是他已經棄保潛逃出境他沒有來報到那我們趕快通報DM才知道他潛逃\n315802\t339140\t就是按照正常程序當然是這樣嘛我也知道我會得到這樣的回答但是我還是要請你們說清楚因為現在有非常多公民或是家長都會看所有立法院的直播我覺得相關的責任分工一定要搞清楚到底哪裡出了差錯所以我想不管是司法院這邊或者是警政署這邊或者是法務部這邊我覺得我們應該要共同來討論這件事情真的真的非常的嚴肅再來我要問\n341682\t359297\t他沒有被限制出境可是我要再次提醒這個人他不是只有虐童他還有涉犯金融犯罪不罰所得超過上千萬如果我們來看一下什麼樣的情況下檢察官或者是法官可以限制他限制出境出海\n359737\t388605\t如果我們回到法規範來看我的投影片有寫得很清楚我們認為他有相當的理由或者是有逃亡之餘或者是我們認為有相當的理由認為他有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或者是勾串共犯或證人之餘者我們應該要限制出境這就是為什麼我剛剛一直請教院方為什麼法官會做出這樣的裁定我們覺得真的要給人民一個交代要給家長一個交代要給在乎兒少權利的人一個交代可不可以請院方再就這個部分回應一下\n392329\t399643\t報告委員 目前起訴到法院就是虐童這個部分那涉及金融這個部分他現在還在起訴還在偵查中\n402972\t427742\t我當然知道還在偵查中但我要再次強調我們真的認為如果你就一般老百姓來看這個法規範大家會認為他其實就已經當時可以限制出境了可能就不會有今天這個獨家新聞跑出來然後害你們還要站在這邊被我質詢這個問題而且我要再次強調當時這個人他之所以要被羈押是因為就是檢察官對他提起所有的這些事情是因為他虐童\n428422\t451213\t那雖然小孩現在還活著好像是看起來罪不自死可是我要說這件事情其實當時引起非常非常多的討論而且虐童案一而再再而再的發生我們來看一下社會上到底有多關注虐童案我們在公共政策倡議平台上近五年如果我們用虐童作為關鍵字光是成案的就超過九件\n451733\t480734\t什麼意思呢我不知道各位長官你們知不知道這個公共政策平台要成案有多麼的困難基本上他比現在在街頭罷免連署的志工在做事情還要困難他用手機跟email雙認證他才可以完成這個簽署連署後面後續的連署所以呢有這麼多人在關心兒虐案這件事情我覺得整個社會語情的方向你們一定要搞清楚而不是認為他只是單一虐童個案或者是只是再一個再一個再一個並不是這樣的\n481354\t510381\t在社會大眾的眼裡看起來是好像整個系統對於像這樣的人是包容的是縱放的或者是我們好像不是那麼積極所以我今天花這麼多時間我之所以在司法法治委員會一再問兒少這件事情就是他可能在你們過去的政策視野當中你們是很容易忽略的你們覺得就只是另外一個個案就只是另外一個個案但我要告訴你們真的不是這樣光是公共政策平台而虐兒的部分成案了有九案更不要講如果我把\n511461\t532409\t額虐這兩個字拿掉 我用更廣泛的耳哨案件來定義那就更多人在公共政策倡議平台上不斷想要告訴我們行政機關我們有多麼在意這件事情那這正巧是你們可以做的事情可以嗎好 那我想喔 相關的檢討報告不管是法務部 司法院 警政署可不可以在一個月內提交相關檢討報告\n534079\t543801\t可以嗎 那警政署也可以嗎好 謝謝你們我覺得共同關心這件事情真的非常重要好 謝謝 請回那接下來我要請調查局我們回到今天的主題\n546121\t573366\t好 那調查局在移動的過程當中我就先說在你們的調查報告裡面我看到我非常給予肯定你們關於安全查核的對象跟法源你們做出了整理看起來其實也是給立法院相關的建議你們很重要的提到立法院還有地方自治團體等其他政府機關內具有接觸 知悉 持有 存取或使用機敏資料的公務人員目前都不是查核對象 對不對是\n574286\t596560\t好那關於這件事情我們其實也提了相關的修法建議對不對我來看一下而且你們提到該精進的事項我覺得也講得很具體一個是救法員的部分也就是我現在頭影片寫的一跟二關於還有關於查核項目沒有列入財務信用我覺得這件事情也很重要確實在很多共點案的線索裡面我們看到當事人其實是有財務困難有財務破口的需求再來第四個\n600703\t628713\t任職於前查核欠缺任職期間定期跟不定期的查核也就是有些人可能在入職前做了查核後續就沒有再做查核謝謝你們提出的建議那你們的針對你們這些建議你們甚至提了精進的內容第六點我的投影片上用紅色來表示我想問一下你們這個做法應該是參考美國跟德國的做法對嗎是好那你們要不要多說一下為什麼你們認為這個做法在台灣真的可行嗎\n631508\t650166\t因為學者專家的報告是一回事但是落實在現場到底可不可行我覺得這個才是最重要的我想我們就是盡量去參考外國比較先進的這些立法例當然還要經過跨部會的一些協商還有貴院的支持\n651267\t667855\t聽起來其實還需要很多討論但是我今天要給予調查局的報告給予高度的肯定你們找出現行的問題然後也提出具體的建議做法那我時間有限我想我就簡單的拜託調查局針對相關檢討事項跟規劃有沒有機會在一個月內相關提出相關的會議結論\n669816\t686007\t我們可以提出我們的精進的一個建議比較詳細的做法但是跨部會的行政的協商我想因為特查辦法是由行政院人事行政總處他是主管的機關我想這個我們要尊重那個人總\n686527\t706116\t好 沒關係但是就你們自己更內部更清楚的資料可以先給我們自己跨部會的部分也許你們可以先簡單提出一個想像跟規劃我們再來看看有沒有機會促成跨部會的討論第二個 相關的立法程序有沒有機會在兩個月內給我們立法院相關立法建議給司法委員會的所有委員參考是 可以可以喔好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請司法院 法務部 還有警政署司法院 法務部 警政署\n好 那我想要先看一下週末有一個新聞但是可能你們都不一定有注意到就是關於竹北涉嫌虐童的教練之前三百萬交保但是呢 出境未到未到庭法院發布通緝令我不知道你們有沒有看到這個新聞\n好有看到這個新聞那我們來看一下這件事情事實上造成非常多家長群組的恐慌大家都在問關於虐童的事件好不容易好像台灣的行政機關有了比較多積極的作為可是到底這件事情是哪裡破了洞怎麼會讓這個虐童案甚至這個人還有相關金融犯罪的事情正在審判當中但是我們就讓他出境了我們就讓他逃跑了我們來看一下事實上這個案件\n案子是在去年的10月那我非常感谢相关的检察官在2月的部分就已经起诉了我认为非常的有效率虽然当时检察官有申请羁押可是法官当下没有裁准严押那我们在新闻里面看到其实当时这个法官如果新闻是可信当时这个法官他对于嫌犯的做法并不认同甚至法官有提到这个嫌犯有试图灭证的做法\n所以最後呢 裁定三百萬交保 並且限制居住但是沒有限制出境 我要再強調一次 沒有限制出境所以他後來就逃跑了 到三月的時候要開庭看不到人 發現他逃跑了到了四月 法院才公佈 要沒入三百萬保證金發佈通緝 還請領務局註銷他的護照\n我想要问在这件事情上我们到底出了什么事情一个一个来我想先问法务部关于这个案件当时检察官有没有抗告对于法官所做出的没有裁准严压然后呢也没有限制出境当时这个做法检察官有没有提出抗告\n在2月5日那個起訴醫審法院的時候那個法院那是沒有通知檢察官到庭及表達意見所以檢察官是沒有到庭陳述意見的機會那所以法官這直接就裁定300萬的一個交保跟限制秩序他每天到派出所報到這個法院這個也沒有裁定到目前為止都沒有送有裁定\n送到檢察官 所以檢到目前都完全沒有辦法去提出抗告了解了 好 那就您的立場喔就您的立場 你覺得這個案子在這樣的處理過程上有沒有瑕疵這個以我們檢方來講 我們是沒有瑕疵的對好 那院方我就要請那個來回答好 那我們來聽一下院方您的說法\n這個程序部分我們可能還要再跟那個新竹地院再查明是不是這個情況查明是不是這個情況的意思是要查明什麼情況程序上就是裁定送達的問題是裁定送達的問題嗎\n我想要請你們多說一點為什麼會發生這個事情那當時法官他們的態度到底是什麼他明明自己都說了他認為他有滅證的嫌疑而且他也不認同嫌犯的做法但是為什麼還是做出了這個裁決\n關於那個法官就是說他怎麼決定就是要不要羈押要不要繼續延押或者是用什麼那個替代的那個處分還沒有做限制出境的處分喔這個是那個法官他們個別就是個案的那個裁量\n那邊我們行政就是司法行政也不變智慧就是說好這個我們當然尊重我謝謝您說出司法行政我們不方便智慧但是我認為這件事情看起來其實是有問題的對不對而且現在這個人呢已經氣飽潛逃\n那我們不知道後續虐童案的進度可是我認為這件事情其實是讓非常多家長都覺得非常不滿那個焦慮不是來自於我的小孩可能會再送到這個人手上而是我們整個司法系統為什麼對於這樣的虐童案如此的輕忽我覺得是這個態度的問題\n好不好我覺得這個部分一定要注意不然我覺得我們做了再多關於兒少修法保護的努力但是我覺得我們家長不會有感我們的孩子也不會有感那甚至有更多的兒少代表他們也會對這件事情表達不滿到底要怎麼樣要什麼樣的強度才能讓這些不管是司法系統或者是檢調系統的人認為這件事情是重要的而且是非常非常嚴肅的\n謝謝委員好 那我想要問一下警政署我們現在有辦法掌握他的行蹤嗎我個人認為是有困難啦因為他要到派手來做報到但是他已經棄保潛逃出境他沒有來報到那我們趕快通報DM才知道他潛逃\n就是按照正常程序當然是這樣嘛我也知道我會得到這樣的回答但是我還是要請你們說清楚因為現在有非常多公民或是家長都會看所有立法院的直播我覺得相關的責任分工一定要搞清楚到底哪裡出了差錯所以我想不管是司法院這邊或者是警政署這邊或者是法務部這邊我覺得我們應該要共同來討論這件事情真的真的非常的嚴肅再來我要問\n他沒有被限制出境可是我要再次提醒這個人他不是只有虐童他還有涉犯金融犯罪不罰所得超過上千萬如果我們來看一下什麼樣的情況下檢察官或者是法官可以限制他限制出境出海\n如果我們回到法規範來看我的投影片有寫得很清楚我們認為他有相當的理由或者是有逃亡之餘或者是我們認為有相當的理由認為他有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或者是勾串共犯或證人之餘者我們應該要限制出境這就是為什麼我剛剛一直請教院方為什麼法官會做出這樣的裁定我們覺得真的要給人民一個交代要給家長一個交代要給在乎兒少權利的人一個交代可不可以請院方再就這個部分回應一下\n報告委員 目前起訴到法院就是虐童這個部分那涉及金融這個部分他現在還在起訴還在偵查中\n我當然知道還在偵查中但我要再次強調我們真的認為如果你就一般老百姓來看這個法規範大家會認為他其實就已經當時可以限制出境了可能就不會有今天這個獨家新聞跑出來然後害你們還要站在這邊被我質詢這個問題而且我要再次強調當時這個人他之所以要被羈押是因為就是檢察官對他提起所有的這些事情是因為他虐童\n那雖然小孩現在還活著好像是看起來罪不自死可是我要說這件事情其實當時引起非常非常多的討論而且虐童案一而再再而再的發生我們來看一下社會上到底有多關注虐童案我們在公共政策倡議平台上近五年如果我們用虐童作為關鍵字光是成案的就超過九件\n什麼意思呢我不知道各位長官你們知不知道這個公共政策平台要成案有多麼的困難基本上他比現在在街頭罷免連署的志工在做事情還要困難他用手機跟email雙認證他才可以完成這個簽署連署後面後續的連署所以呢有這麼多人在關心兒虐案這件事情我覺得整個社會語情的方向你們一定要搞清楚而不是認為他只是單一虐童個案或者是只是再一個再一個再一個並不是這樣的\n在社會大眾的眼裡看起來是好像整個系統對於像這樣的人是包容的是縱放的或者是我們好像不是那麼積極所以我今天花這麼多時間我之所以在司法法治委員會一再問兒少這件事情就是他可能在你們過去的政策視野當中你們是很容易忽略的你們覺得就只是另外一個個案就只是另外一個個案但我要告訴你們真的不是這樣光是公共政策平台而虐兒的部分成案了有九案更不要講如果我把\n額虐這兩個字拿掉 我用更廣泛的耳哨案件來定義那就更多人在公共政策倡議平台上不斷想要告訴我們行政機關我們有多麼在意這件事情那這正巧是你們可以做的事情可以嗎好 那我想喔 相關的檢討報告不管是法務部 司法院 警政署可不可以在一個月內提交相關檢討報告\n可以嗎 那警政署也可以嗎好 謝謝你們我覺得共同關心這件事情真的非常重要好 謝謝 請回那接下來我要請調查局我們回到今天的主題\n好 那調查局在移動的過程當中我就先說在你們的調查報告裡面我看到我非常給予肯定你們關於安全查核的對象跟法源你們做出了整理看起來其實也是給立法院相關的建議你們很重要的提到立法院還有地方自治團體等其他政府機關內具有接觸 知悉 持有 存取或使用機敏資料的公務人員目前都不是查核對象 對不對是\n好那關於這件事情我們其實也提了相關的修法建議對不對我來看一下而且你們提到該精進的事項我覺得也講得很具體一個是救法員的部分也就是我現在頭影片寫的一跟二關於還有關於查核項目沒有列入財務信用我覺得這件事情也很重要確實在很多共點案的線索裡面我們看到當事人其實是有財務困難有財務破口的需求再來第四個\n任職於前查核欠缺任職期間定期跟不定期的查核也就是有些人可能在入職前做了查核後續就沒有再做查核謝謝你們提出的建議那你們的針對你們這些建議你們甚至提了精進的內容第六點我的投影片上用紅色來表示我想問一下你們這個做法應該是參考美國跟德國的做法對嗎是好那你們要不要多說一下為什麼你們認為這個做法在台灣真的可行嗎\n因為學者專家的報告是一回事但是落實在現場到底可不可行我覺得這個才是最重要的我想我們就是盡量去參考外國比較先進的這些立法例當然還要經過跨部會的一些協商還有貴院的支持\n聽起來其實還需要很多討論但是我今天要給予調查局的報告給予高度的肯定你們找出現行的問題然後也提出具體的建議做法那我時間有限我想我就簡單的拜託調查局針對相關檢討事項跟規劃有沒有機會在一個月內相關提出相關的會議結論\n我們可以提出我們的精進的一個建議比較詳細的做法但是跨部會的行政的協商我想因為特查辦法是由行政院人事行政總處他是主管的機關我想這個我們要尊重那個人總\n好 沒關係但是就你們自己更內部更清楚的資料可以先給我們自己跨部會的部分也許你們可以先簡單提出一個想像跟規劃我們再來看看有沒有機會促成跨部會的討論第二個 相關的立法程序有沒有機會在兩個月內給我們立法院相關立法建議給司法委員會的所有委員參考是 可以可以喔好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.137 --> 00:09.013\n好謝謝主席那有請司法院法務部還有警政署司法院法務部警政署\n\n00:20.930 --> 00:37.338\n好那我想要先看一下週末有一個新聞但是可能你們都不一定有注意到就是關於竹北涉嫌虐童的教練之前三百萬交保但是呢出境未到未到庭法院發布通緝令我不知道你們有沒有看到這個新聞\n\n00:38.559 --> 01:02.535\n好有看到這個新聞那我們來看一下這件事情事實上造成非常多家長群組的恐慌大家都在問關於虐童的事件好不容易好像台灣的行政機關有了比較多積極的作為可是到底這件事情是哪裡破了洞怎麼會讓這個虐童案甚至這個人還有相關金融犯罪的事情正在審判當中但是我們就讓他出境了我們就讓他逃跑了我們來看一下事實上這個案件\n\n01:05.157 --> 01:33.932\n案子是在去年的10月那我非常感谢相关的检察官在2月的部分就已经起诉了我认为非常的有效率虽然当时检察官有申请羁押可是法官当下没有裁准严押那我们在新闻里面看到其实当时这个法官如果新闻是可信当时这个法官他对于嫌犯的做法并不认同甚至法官有提到这个嫌犯有试图灭证的做法\n\n01:34.512 --> 01:54.290\n所以最後呢裁定三百萬交保並且限制居住但是沒有限制出境我要再強調一次沒有限制出境所以他後來就逃跑了到三月的時候要開庭看不到人發現他逃跑了到了四月法院才公佈要沒入三百萬保證金發佈通緝還請領務局註銷他的護照\n\n01:59.335 --> 02:17.922\n我想要问在这件事情上我们到底出了什么事情一个一个来我想先问法务部关于这个案件当时检察官有没有抗告对于法官所做出的没有裁准严压然后呢也没有限制出境当时这个做法检察官有没有提出抗告\n\n02:20.427 --> 02:44.740\n在2月5日那個起訴醫審法院的時候那個法院那是沒有通知檢察官到庭及表達意見所以檢察官是沒有到庭陳述意見的機會那所以法官這直接就裁定300萬的一個交保跟限制秩序他每天到派出所報到這個法院這個也沒有裁定到目前為止都沒有送有裁定\n\n02:45.200 --> 03:06.127\n送到檢察官所以檢到目前都完全沒有辦法去提出抗告了解了好那就您的立場喔就您的立場你覺得這個案子在這樣的處理過程上有沒有瑕疵這個以我們檢方來講我們是沒有瑕疵的對好那院方我就要請那個來回答好那我們來聽一下院方您的說法\n\n03:10.488 --> 03:24.941\n這個程序部分我們可能還要再跟那個新竹地院再查明是不是這個情況查明是不是這個情況的意思是要查明什麼情況程序上就是裁定送達的問題是裁定送達的問題嗎\n\n03:31.144 --> 03:43.211\n我想要請你們多說一點為什麼會發生這個事情那當時法官他們的態度到底是什麼他明明自己都說了他認為他有滅證的嫌疑而且他也不認同嫌犯的做法但是為什麼還是做出了這個裁決\n\n03:46.422 --> 04:01.466\n關於那個法官就是說他怎麼決定就是要不要羈押要不要繼續延押或者是用什麼那個替代的那個處分還沒有做限制出境的處分喔這個是那個法官他們個別就是個案的那個裁量\n\n04:01.946 --> 04:15.021\n那邊我們行政就是司法行政也不變智慧就是說好這個我們當然尊重我謝謝您說出司法行政我們不方便智慧但是我認為這件事情看起來其實是有問題的對不對而且現在這個人呢已經氣飽潛逃\n\n04:17.023 --> 04:31.565\n那我們不知道後續虐童案的進度可是我認為這件事情其實是讓非常多家長都覺得非常不滿那個焦慮不是來自於我的小孩可能會再送到這個人手上而是我們整個司法系統為什麼對於這樣的虐童案如此的輕忽我覺得是這個態度的問題\n\n04:33.027 --> 04:54.050\n好不好我覺得這個部分一定要注意不然我覺得我們做了再多關於兒少修法保護的努力但是我覺得我們家長不會有感我們的孩子也不會有感那甚至有更多的兒少代表他們也會對這件事情表達不滿到底要怎麼樣要什麼樣的強度才能讓這些不管是司法系統或者是檢調系統的人認為這件事情是重要的而且是非常非常嚴肅的\n\n04:55.679 --> 05:14.875\n謝謝委員好那我想要問一下警政署我們現在有辦法掌握他的行蹤嗎我個人認為是有困難啦因為他要到派手來做報到但是他已經棄保潛逃出境他沒有來報到那我們趕快通報DM才知道他潛逃\n\n05:15.802 --> 05:39.140\n就是按照正常程序當然是這樣嘛我也知道我會得到這樣的回答但是我還是要請你們說清楚因為現在有非常多公民或是家長都會看所有立法院的直播我覺得相關的責任分工一定要搞清楚到底哪裡出了差錯所以我想不管是司法院這邊或者是警政署這邊或者是法務部這邊我覺得我們應該要共同來討論這件事情真的真的非常的嚴肅再來我要問\n\n05:41.682 --> 05:59.297\n他沒有被限制出境可是我要再次提醒這個人他不是只有虐童他還有涉犯金融犯罪不罰所得超過上千萬如果我們來看一下什麼樣的情況下檢察官或者是法官可以限制他限制出境出海\n\n05:59.737 --> 06:28.605\n如果我們回到法規範來看我的投影片有寫得很清楚我們認為他有相當的理由或者是有逃亡之餘或者是我們認為有相當的理由認為他有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或者是勾串共犯或證人之餘者我們應該要限制出境這就是為什麼我剛剛一直請教院方為什麼法官會做出這樣的裁定我們覺得真的要給人民一個交代要給家長一個交代要給在乎兒少權利的人一個交代可不可以請院方再就這個部分回應一下\n\n06:32.329 --> 06:39.643\n報告委員目前起訴到法院就是虐童這個部分那涉及金融這個部分他現在還在起訴還在偵查中\n\n06:42.972 --> 07:07.742\n我當然知道還在偵查中但我要再次強調我們真的認為如果你就一般老百姓來看這個法規範大家會認為他其實就已經當時可以限制出境了可能就不會有今天這個獨家新聞跑出來然後害你們還要站在這邊被我質詢這個問題而且我要再次強調當時這個人他之所以要被羈押是因為就是檢察官對他提起所有的這些事情是因為他虐童\n\n07:08.422 --> 07:31.213\n那雖然小孩現在還活著好像是看起來罪不自死可是我要說這件事情其實當時引起非常非常多的討論而且虐童案一而再再而再的發生我們來看一下社會上到底有多關注虐童案我們在公共政策倡議平台上近五年如果我們用虐童作為關鍵字光是成案的就超過九件\n\n07:31.733 --> 08:00.734\n什麼意思呢我不知道各位長官你們知不知道這個公共政策平台要成案有多麼的困難基本上他比現在在街頭罷免連署的志工在做事情還要困難他用手機跟email雙認證他才可以完成這個簽署連署後面後續的連署所以呢有這麼多人在關心兒虐案這件事情我覺得整個社會語情的方向你們一定要搞清楚而不是認為他只是單一虐童個案或者是只是再一個再一個再一個並不是這樣的\n\n08:01.354 --> 08:30.381\n在社會大眾的眼裡看起來是好像整個系統對於像這樣的人是包容的是縱放的或者是我們好像不是那麼積極所以我今天花這麼多時間我之所以在司法法治委員會一再問兒少這件事情就是他可能在你們過去的政策視野當中你們是很容易忽略的你們覺得就只是另外一個個案就只是另外一個個案但我要告訴你們真的不是這樣光是公共政策平台而虐兒的部分成案了有九案更不要講如果我把\n\n08:31.461 --> 08:52.409\n額虐這兩個字拿掉我用更廣泛的耳哨案件來定義那就更多人在公共政策倡議平台上不斷想要告訴我們行政機關我們有多麼在意這件事情那這正巧是你們可以做的事情可以嗎好那我想喔相關的檢討報告不管是法務部司法院警政署可不可以在一個月內提交相關檢討報告\n\n08:54.079 --> 09:03.801\n可以嗎那警政署也可以嗎好謝謝你們我覺得共同關心這件事情真的非常重要好謝謝請回那接下來我要請調查局我們回到今天的主題\n\n09:06.121 --> 09:33.366\n好那調查局在移動的過程當中我就先說在你們的調查報告裡面我看到我非常給予肯定你們關於安全查核的對象跟法源你們做出了整理看起來其實也是給立法院相關的建議你們很重要的提到立法院還有地方自治團體等其他政府機關內具有接觸知悉持有存取或使用機敏資料的公務人員目前都不是查核對象對不對是\n\n09:34.286 --> 09:56.560\n好那關於這件事情我們其實也提了相關的修法建議對不對我來看一下而且你們提到該精進的事項我覺得也講得很具體一個是救法員的部分也就是我現在頭影片寫的一跟二關於還有關於查核項目沒有列入財務信用我覺得這件事情也很重要確實在很多共點案的線索裡面我們看到當事人其實是有財務困難有財務破口的需求再來第四個\n\n10:00.703 --> 10:28.713\n任職於前查核欠缺任職期間定期跟不定期的查核也就是有些人可能在入職前做了查核後續就沒有再做查核謝謝你們提出的建議那你們的針對你們這些建議你們甚至提了精進的內容第六點我的投影片上用紅色來表示我想問一下你們這個做法應該是參考美國跟德國的做法對嗎是好那你們要不要多說一下為什麼你們認為這個做法在台灣真的可行嗎\n\n10:31.508 --> 10:50.166\n因為學者專家的報告是一回事但是落實在現場到底可不可行我覺得這個才是最重要的我想我們就是盡量去參考外國比較先進的這些立法例當然還要經過跨部會的一些協商還有貴院的支持\n\n10:51.267 --> 11:07.855\n聽起來其實還需要很多討論但是我今天要給予調查局的報告給予高度的肯定你們找出現行的問題然後也提出具體的建議做法那我時間有限我想我就簡單的拜託調查局針對相關檢討事項跟規劃有沒有機會在一個月內相關提出相關的會議結論\n\n11:09.816 --> 11:26.007\n我們可以提出我們的精進的一個建議比較詳細的做法但是跨部會的行政的協商我想因為特查辦法是由行政院人事行政總處他是主管的機關我想這個我們要尊重那個人總\n\n11:26.527 --> 11:46.116\n好沒關係但是就你們自己更內部更清楚的資料可以先給我們自己跨部會的部分也許你們可以先簡單提出一個想像跟規劃我們再來看看有沒有機會促成跨部會的討論第二個相關的立法程序有沒有機會在兩個月內給我們立法院相關立法建議給司法委員會的所有委員參考是可以可以喔好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.137,"end":9.013,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請司法院 法務部 還有警政署司法院 法務部 警政署"},{"start":20.93,"end":37.338,"text":"好 那我想要先看一下週末有一個新聞但是可能你們都不一定有注意到就是關於竹北涉嫌虐童的教練之前三百萬交保但是呢 出境未到未到庭法院發布通緝令我不知道你們有沒有看到這個新聞"},{"start":38.559,"end":62.535,"text":"好有看到這個新聞那我們來看一下這件事情事實上造成非常多家長群組的恐慌大家都在問關於虐童的事件好不容易好像台灣的行政機關有了比較多積極的作為可是到底這件事情是哪裡破了洞怎麼會讓這個虐童案甚至這個人還有相關金融犯罪的事情正在審判當中但是我們就讓他出境了我們就讓他逃跑了我們來看一下事實上這個案件"},{"start":65.157,"end":93.932,"text":"案子是在去年的10月那我非常感谢相关的检察官在2月的部分就已经起诉了我认为非常的有效率虽然当时检察官有申请羁押可是法官当下没有裁准严押那我们在新闻里面看到其实当时这个法官如果新闻是可信当时这个法官他对于嫌犯的做法并不认同甚至法官有提到这个嫌犯有试图灭证的做法"},{"start":94.512,"end":114.29,"text":"所以最後呢 裁定三百萬交保 並且限制居住但是沒有限制出境 我要再強調一次 沒有限制出境所以他後來就逃跑了 到三月的時候要開庭看不到人 發現他逃跑了到了四月 法院才公佈 要沒入三百萬保證金發佈通緝 還請領務局註銷他的護照"},{"start":119.335,"end":137.922,"text":"我想要问在这件事情上我们到底出了什么事情一个一个来我想先问法务部关于这个案件当时检察官有没有抗告对于法官所做出的没有裁准严压然后呢也没有限制出境当时这个做法检察官有没有提出抗告"},{"start":140.427,"end":164.74,"text":"在2月5日那個起訴醫審法院的時候那個法院那是沒有通知檢察官到庭及表達意見所以檢察官是沒有到庭陳述意見的機會那所以法官這直接就裁定300萬的一個交保跟限制秩序他每天到派出所報到這個法院這個也沒有裁定到目前為止都沒有送有裁定"},{"start":165.2,"end":186.127,"text":"送到檢察官 所以檢到目前都完全沒有辦法去提出抗告了解了 好 那就您的立場喔就您的立場 你覺得這個案子在這樣的處理過程上有沒有瑕疵這個以我們檢方來講 我們是沒有瑕疵的對好 那院方我就要請那個來回答好 那我們來聽一下院方您的說法"},{"start":190.488,"end":204.941,"text":"這個程序部分我們可能還要再跟那個新竹地院再查明是不是這個情況查明是不是這個情況的意思是要查明什麼情況程序上就是裁定送達的問題是裁定送達的問題嗎"},{"start":211.144,"end":223.211,"text":"我想要請你們多說一點為什麼會發生這個事情那當時法官他們的態度到底是什麼他明明自己都說了他認為他有滅證的嫌疑而且他也不認同嫌犯的做法但是為什麼還是做出了這個裁決"},{"start":226.422,"end":241.466,"text":"關於那個法官就是說他怎麼決定就是要不要羈押要不要繼續延押或者是用什麼那個替代的那個處分還沒有做限制出境的處分喔這個是那個法官他們個別就是個案的那個裁量"},{"start":241.946,"end":255.021,"text":"那邊我們行政就是司法行政也不變智慧就是說好這個我們當然尊重我謝謝您說出司法行政我們不方便智慧但是我認為這件事情看起來其實是有問題的對不對而且現在這個人呢已經氣飽潛逃"},{"start":257.023,"end":271.565,"text":"那我們不知道後續虐童案的進度可是我認為這件事情其實是讓非常多家長都覺得非常不滿那個焦慮不是來自於我的小孩可能會再送到這個人手上而是我們整個司法系統為什麼對於這樣的虐童案如此的輕忽我覺得是這個態度的問題"},{"start":273.027,"end":294.05,"text":"好不好我覺得這個部分一定要注意不然我覺得我們做了再多關於兒少修法保護的努力但是我覺得我們家長不會有感我們的孩子也不會有感那甚至有更多的兒少代表他們也會對這件事情表達不滿到底要怎麼樣要什麼樣的強度才能讓這些不管是司法系統或者是檢調系統的人認為這件事情是重要的而且是非常非常嚴肅的"},{"start":295.679,"end":314.875,"text":"謝謝委員好 那我想要問一下警政署我們現在有辦法掌握他的行蹤嗎我個人認為是有困難啦因為他要到派手來做報到但是他已經棄保潛逃出境他沒有來報到那我們趕快通報DM才知道他潛逃"},{"start":315.802,"end":339.14,"text":"就是按照正常程序當然是這樣嘛我也知道我會得到這樣的回答但是我還是要請你們說清楚因為現在有非常多公民或是家長都會看所有立法院的直播我覺得相關的責任分工一定要搞清楚到底哪裡出了差錯所以我想不管是司法院這邊或者是警政署這邊或者是法務部這邊我覺得我們應該要共同來討論這件事情真的真的非常的嚴肅再來我要問"},{"start":341.682,"end":359.297,"text":"他沒有被限制出境可是我要再次提醒這個人他不是只有虐童他還有涉犯金融犯罪不罰所得超過上千萬如果我們來看一下什麼樣的情況下檢察官或者是法官可以限制他限制出境出海"},{"start":359.737,"end":388.605,"text":"如果我們回到法規範來看我的投影片有寫得很清楚我們認為他有相當的理由或者是有逃亡之餘或者是我們認為有相當的理由認為他有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或者是勾串共犯或證人之餘者我們應該要限制出境這就是為什麼我剛剛一直請教院方為什麼法官會做出這樣的裁定我們覺得真的要給人民一個交代要給家長一個交代要給在乎兒少權利的人一個交代可不可以請院方再就這個部分回應一下"},{"start":392.329,"end":399.643,"text":"報告委員 目前起訴到法院就是虐童這個部分那涉及金融這個部分他現在還在起訴還在偵查中"},{"start":402.972,"end":427.742,"text":"我當然知道還在偵查中但我要再次強調我們真的認為如果你就一般老百姓來看這個法規範大家會認為他其實就已經當時可以限制出境了可能就不會有今天這個獨家新聞跑出來然後害你們還要站在這邊被我質詢這個問題而且我要再次強調當時這個人他之所以要被羈押是因為就是檢察官對他提起所有的這些事情是因為他虐童"},{"start":428.422,"end":451.213,"text":"那雖然小孩現在還活著好像是看起來罪不自死可是我要說這件事情其實當時引起非常非常多的討論而且虐童案一而再再而再的發生我們來看一下社會上到底有多關注虐童案我們在公共政策倡議平台上近五年如果我們用虐童作為關鍵字光是成案的就超過九件"},{"start":451.733,"end":480.734,"text":"什麼意思呢我不知道各位長官你們知不知道這個公共政策平台要成案有多麼的困難基本上他比現在在街頭罷免連署的志工在做事情還要困難他用手機跟email雙認證他才可以完成這個簽署連署後面後續的連署所以呢有這麼多人在關心兒虐案這件事情我覺得整個社會語情的方向你們一定要搞清楚而不是認為他只是單一虐童個案或者是只是再一個再一個再一個並不是這樣的"},{"start":481.354,"end":510.381,"text":"在社會大眾的眼裡看起來是好像整個系統對於像這樣的人是包容的是縱放的或者是我們好像不是那麼積極所以我今天花這麼多時間我之所以在司法法治委員會一再問兒少這件事情就是他可能在你們過去的政策視野當中你們是很容易忽略的你們覺得就只是另外一個個案就只是另外一個個案但我要告訴你們真的不是這樣光是公共政策平台而虐兒的部分成案了有九案更不要講如果我把"},{"start":511.461,"end":532.409,"text":"額虐這兩個字拿掉 我用更廣泛的耳哨案件來定義那就更多人在公共政策倡議平台上不斷想要告訴我們行政機關我們有多麼在意這件事情那這正巧是你們可以做的事情可以嗎好 那我想喔 相關的檢討報告不管是法務部 司法院 警政署可不可以在一個月內提交相關檢討報告"},{"start":534.079,"end":543.801,"text":"可以嗎 那警政署也可以嗎好 謝謝你們我覺得共同關心這件事情真的非常重要好 謝謝 請回那接下來我要請調查局我們回到今天的主題"},{"start":546.121,"end":573.366,"text":"好 那調查局在移動的過程當中我就先說在你們的調查報告裡面我看到我非常給予肯定你們關於安全查核的對象跟法源你們做出了整理看起來其實也是給立法院相關的建議你們很重要的提到立法院還有地方自治團體等其他政府機關內具有接觸 知悉 持有 存取或使用機敏資料的公務人員目前都不是查核對象 對不對是"},{"start":574.286,"end":596.56,"text":"好那關於這件事情我們其實也提了相關的修法建議對不對我來看一下而且你們提到該精進的事項我覺得也講得很具體一個是救法員的部分也就是我現在頭影片寫的一跟二關於還有關於查核項目沒有列入財務信用我覺得這件事情也很重要確實在很多共點案的線索裡面我們看到當事人其實是有財務困難有財務破口的需求再來第四個"},{"start":600.703,"end":628.713,"text":"任職於前查核欠缺任職期間定期跟不定期的查核也就是有些人可能在入職前做了查核後續就沒有再做查核謝謝你們提出的建議那你們的針對你們這些建議你們甚至提了精進的內容第六點我的投影片上用紅色來表示我想問一下你們這個做法應該是參考美國跟德國的做法對嗎是好那你們要不要多說一下為什麼你們認為這個做法在台灣真的可行嗎"},{"start":631.508,"end":650.166,"text":"因為學者專家的報告是一回事但是落實在現場到底可不可行我覺得這個才是最重要的我想我們就是盡量去參考外國比較先進的這些立法例當然還要經過跨部會的一些協商還有貴院的支持"},{"start":651.267,"end":667.855,"text":"聽起來其實還需要很多討論但是我今天要給予調查局的報告給予高度的肯定你們找出現行的問題然後也提出具體的建議做法那我時間有限我想我就簡單的拜託調查局針對相關檢討事項跟規劃有沒有機會在一個月內相關提出相關的會議結論"},{"start":669.816,"end":686.007,"text":"我們可以提出我們的精進的一個建議比較詳細的做法但是跨部會的行政的協商我想因為特查辦法是由行政院人事行政總處他是主管的機關我想這個我們要尊重那個人總"},{"start":686.527,"end":706.116,"text":"好 沒關係但是就你們自己更內部更清楚的資料可以先給我們自己跨部會的部分也許你們可以先簡單提出一個想像跟規劃我們再來看看有沒有機會促成跨部會的討論第二個 相關的立法程序有沒有機會在兩個月內給我們立法院相關立法建議給司法委員會的所有委員參考是 可以可以喔好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":572,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時）謝謝主席，有請司法院、法務部，還有警政署。"],["主席：請司法院、法務部、警政署。"],["陳委員培瑜：我想要先看周末有一個新聞，但是可能你們不一定有注意到，就是關於竹北涉嫌虐童的教練，之前300萬交保，但是出境未到庭，法院發布通緝令，我不知道你們有沒有看到這個新聞？好，有看到這個新聞。","這件事情造成非常多家長群組的恐慌，大家都在問關於虐童的事件，好不容易好像臺灣的行政機關有了比較多積極的作為，可是這件事情是哪裡破了洞，怎麼會讓這個虐童案，甚至這個人還有金融犯罪的事情，正在審判當中，但是我們就讓他出境了，我們就讓他逃跑了？","這個案子是在去年10月，我非常感謝相關的檢察官在2月就已經起訴了，我認為非常的有效率，雖然當時檢察官有申請羈押，可是法官當下沒有裁准延押。如果新聞是可信，當時這個法官對於嫌犯的作法並不認同，甚至法官有提到這個嫌犯有試圖滅證的作法，所以最後裁定300萬交保，並且限制住居，但是沒有限制出境，我要再強調一次，沒有限制出境，所以他後來就逃跑了，到3月的時候要開庭，看不到人，發現他逃跑了。到了4月，法院才公布要沒入300萬保證金，發布通緝，函請領務局註銷他的護照。我想要問在這件事情上，我們到底出了什麼事情，一個一個來，我想先問法務部，關於這個案件，對於法官所做出的沒有裁准延押，也沒有限制出境，當時這個作法，檢察官有沒有提出抗告？"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員，在2月5日起訴一審法院的時候，法院沒有通知檢察官到庭及表達意見，所以檢察官是沒有到庭陳述意見的機會，所以法官直接裁定300萬的交保跟限制住居，還有每天到派出所報到。法院到目前為止都沒有裁定送到檢察官這邊，所以檢察官目前完全沒有辦法去提出抗告。"],["陳委員培瑜：了解，就您的立場，你覺得這個案子在這樣的處理過程上有沒有瑕疵？"],["鄭部長銘謙：以我們檢方來講，我們是沒有瑕疵的。"],["陳委員培瑜：對。"],["鄭部長銘謙：那院方，我就請院方來回答。"],["陳委員培瑜：那我們來聽一下院方你們的說法。"],["王副秘書長梅英：這個程序部分，我們可能還要再跟新竹地院查明是不是這個情況。"],["陳委員培瑜：「查明是不是這個情況」的意思是要查明什麼情況？"],["王副秘書長梅英：就是裁定送達的問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：是裁定送達的問題嗎？我想要請你們多說一點，為什麼會發生這個事情？當時法官他們的態度到底是什麼？他明明自己都說了，他認為他有滅證的嫌疑，而且他也不認同嫌犯的作法，但是為什麼還是做出了這個裁決？"],["王副秘書長梅英：關於法官要怎麼決定，要不要羈押、要不要繼續延押，或是用替代的處分……"],["陳委員培瑜：包含沒有做限制出境的處分喔！"],["王副秘書長梅英：是，這個是法官個案的裁量，我們司法行政也不便置喙，就是說……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這個我們當然尊重，我謝謝您說出司法行政不便置喙，但是我認為這件事情看起來其實是有問題的，而且現在這個人已經棄保潛逃，我們不知道後續虐童案的進度，可是我認為這件事情其實是讓非常多家長都覺得非常不滿，那個焦慮不是來自於我的小孩可能會再送到這個人手上，而是我們整個司法系統為什麼對於這樣的虐童案如此的輕忽，我覺得是這個態度的問題，好不好？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：我覺得這個部分一定要注意，不然我們做了再多關於兒少修法保護的努力，我覺得我們家長不會有感，我們的孩子也不會有感，甚至有更多的兒少代表，他們也會對這件事情表達不滿，到底要怎麼樣、要什麼樣的強度才能讓這些不管是司法系統或者是檢調系統的人認為這件事情是重要的，而且是非常、非常嚴肅的。"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。我想要問一下警政署，我們現在有辦法掌握他的行蹤嗎？我個人認為是有困難。"],["陳組長源輝：因為他要到派出所來報到。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是他已經棄保潛逃出境。"],["陳組長源輝：他沒有來報到，我們趕快通報地院，才知道他潛逃。"],["陳委員培瑜：就是按照正常程序，當然是這樣嘛！"],["陳組長源輝：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，我也知道我會得到這樣的回答，但是我還是要請你們說清楚，因為現在有非常多公民或是家長都會看所有立法院的直播，我覺得相關的責任分工一定要搞清楚，到底哪裡出了差錯，所以我想不管是司法院這邊，或者是警政署這邊，或者是法務部這邊，我覺得我們應該要共同來討論這件事情，真的、真的非常的嚴肅。再來，我也要問，他沒有被限制出境，可是我要再次提醒，這個人他不是只有虐童，他還有涉犯金融犯罪，不法所得超過上千萬，我們來看什麼樣的情況下，檢察官或者是法官可以限制他出境出海。如果我們回到法規範來看，我的投影片寫得很清楚，我們有相當的理由認為他有逃亡之虞，或者是我們有相當理由認為他有湮滅、偽造、變造證據或者是勾串共犯或證人之虞者，我們應該要限制出境。這就是為什麼我剛剛一直請教院方，為什麼法官會做出這樣的裁定，我們覺得真的要給人民一個交代，要給家長一個交代，要給在乎兒少權利的人一個交代，可不可以請院方再就這個部分回應一下？"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，目前起訴到法院的，就是虐童這個部分，涉及金融的這個部分，現在還在偵查中。"],["陳委員培瑜：我當然知道還在偵查中，但我要再次強調，我們真的認為如果你就一般老百姓來看這個法規範，大家會認為他其實當時就已經可以限制出境了，可能就不會有今天這個獨家新聞跑出來，然後害你們還要站在這邊，被我質詢這個問題，而且我要再次強調，當時這個人之所以要被羈押，檢察官對他提起所有的這些事情是因為他虐童，雖然小孩現在還活著，好像是看起來罪不至死，可是我要說這件事情其實當時引起非常、非常多的討論，而且虐童案一而再再而三的發生，我們來看一下社會上到底有多關注虐童案，在公共政策倡議平臺上，如果我們用虐童作為關鍵字，近5年光是成案的就超過9件，什麼意思呢？我不知道各位長官知不知道這個公共政策平臺要成案有多麼的困難，基本上它比現在在街頭罷免連署的志工在做的事情還要困難，它用手機跟email雙認證，才可以完成簽署後續的連署，所以有這麼多人在關心兒虐案這件事情，我覺得整個社會輿情的方向，你們一定要搞清楚，而不是認為它只是單一虐童個案，或者只是再一個、再一個、再一個，並不是這樣的。在社會大眾的眼裡看起來，好像整個系統對於像這樣的人是包容的、是縱放的，或者我們好像不是那麼積極。所以我今天花這麼多時間，我之前在司法及法制委員會一再問兒少這件事情，就是它可能在你們過去的政策視野當中，你們是很容易忽略的，你們覺得就只是另外一個個案，但我要告訴你們真的不是這樣，光是公共政策平臺虐兒的部分，成案的有9案，更不要講，如果我把兒虐這兩個字拿掉，我用更廣泛的兒少案件來定義，那就更多人在公共政策倡議平臺上不斷想要告訴行政機關，我們有多麼在意這件事情，而這正巧是你們可以做的事情，可以嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是，可以。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我想相關的檢討報告，不管是法務部、司法院、警政署可不可以在一個月內提交相關檢討報告？"],["王副秘書長梅英：可以。"],["陳委員培瑜：可以嗎？警政署也可以嗎？好，謝謝你們。我覺得共同關心這件事情真的非常重要，謝謝！請回。","接下來我要請調查局，我們回到今天的主題，調查局在移動過程當中，我就先說。我看到你們的調查報告，我非常給予肯定，你們在關於安全查核的對象跟法源，你們做出了整理，看起來其實也是給立法院相關的建議。你們很重要的提到，立法院還有地方自治團體等其他政府機關內具有接觸、知悉、持有、存取或使用機敏資料的公務人員，目前都不是查核對象，對不對？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，關於這件事情，你們其實也提了相關的修法建議，對不對？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：而且你們提到該精進的事項，我覺得也講得很具體，一個是就法源的部分，也就是我現在投影片寫的第一點跟第二點。還有第三點，關於查核項目沒有列入財務信用，我覺得這件事情也很重要，確實在很多共諜案的線索裡面，我們看到當事人其實是有財務困難、有財務破口的需求。再來，第四個是僅於任職前查核，欠缺任職期間定期跟不定期的查核，也就是有些人可能在入職前做了查核，後續就沒有再做查核。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝你們提出的建議，針對你們這些建議，你們甚至提了精進的內容，其中第六點，我的投影片上用紅色來表示，我想問一下，你們這個作法應該是參考美國跟德國的作法對嗎？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，你們要不要多說一下，你們認為這個作法在臺灣真的可行嗎？因為學者專家的報告是一回事，但是落實在現場，到底可不可行，我覺得這個才是最重要的。"],["陳局長白立：是，我想我們就是儘量去參考外國比較先進的這些立法例，當然還要經過跨部會的一些協商，還有貴院的支持。"],["陳委員培瑜：聽起來其實還需要很多討論，但是今天對於調查局的報告，我要給予高度的肯定。"],["陳局長白立：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：你們找出現行的問題，然後也提出具體的建議作法。","因為我時間有限，我想我就簡單拜託調查局針對相關檢討事項跟規劃，有沒有機會在一個月內提出相關的會議結論？"],["陳局長白立：我們可以提出我們精進建議比較詳細的作法。"],["陳委員培瑜：更具體的內容、更詳細的作法？"],["陳局長白立：對。但是跨部會的行政協商，我想因為特查辦法的主管機關是行政院人事行政總處，我想我們要尊重人總。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒關係，但是就你們自己內部更清楚的資料可以先給我們。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：至於跨部會的部分，也許你們可以先簡單提出一個想像跟規劃，我們再來看看有沒有機會促成跨部會的討論。第二個，相關的立法程序有沒有機會在兩個月內給我們立法院相關立法建議，給司法委員會的所有委員參考？"],["陳局長白立：是，可以。"],["陳委員培瑜：可以？好，謝謝。"],["陳局長白立：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","我們下一位請沈發惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-9","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","林倩綺","陳培瑜","沈發惠","王義川","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","莊瑞雄","許宇甄","張啓楷","羅智強","陳冠廷","翁曉玲"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、國家安全會議、國\n防部、國家安全局、海洋委員會、內政部警政署、國防部憲兵指揮部、國防部資通電軍指揮部、\n海洋委員會海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「軍事審判專庭（股）之執行現況，並就共諜滲透、機\n敏資訊洩漏等國安事件及忠誠安全查核機制，提出檢討報告及防制措施」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00003"}}}