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比如說我們要派人員到外館或是說調他派的住館這個都需要用到這一筆費用也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 451.345, \"end\": 451.505, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 451.505, \"end\": 451.925, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 451.925, \"end\": 452.345, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 452.345, \"end\": 452.746, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 452.746, \"end\": 453.166, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 453.166, \"end\": 453.446, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 453.446, \"end\": 453.886, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 453.886, \"end\": 454.066, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 454.066, \"end\": 454.226, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 454.226, \"end\": 454.446, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 548.167, \"end\": 548.187, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 548.187, \"end\": 548.207, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,272 --> 00:00:01,386\n謝謝主席主席有請林部長\n\n2\n00:00:10,732 --> 00:00:21,537\n部長好時間來到了這個4月底那我們知道這個二月份總預算復議之後現在國民黨開始針對總預算的解凍那麼我想從剛剛這個一路下來我想等一下可能蠻多國民黨的委員要詢問其實我也想問這個問題因為呢我確實也發現了國民黨最近包括他們剛剛黨團好像也開了個記者會那麼也開始在講\n\n3\n00:00:38,806 --> 00:00:53,852\n到底為什麼不預算解凍我先帶大家來看一下這個部分國民黨他們確實做了一個所謂預算解凍的倒數計時器我剛看了一個最新的他們現在已經說是總統公告總預算通過已經來到了31天\n\n4\n00:00:55,453 --> 00:01:04,085\n但是我想國民黨在講這個預算解凍的時候可能自己沒有搞清楚或是真的就是盲投盲表決連自己當時我們挑燈夜戰通過了什麼案子可能都不知道我來幫國民黨念一下這個是當時我們表決而且我們覺得萬萬不可的\n\n5\n00:01:12,616 --> 00:01:34,662\n在有關於外交部總體部本部的預算當中他說外交部的業務費要凍結本來是70後來手寫改成了50可是他說要等到執行30%之後才能申請解凍而且還要院會同意所以言下之意現在二月份才剛過而且總統公佈嘛那麼現在才幾天請問我們現在執行超過30%了嗎\n\n6\n00:01:41,919 --> 00:01:59,945\n剛剛還沒有如果做剛剛委員提的那個時間點的話是啊而且如果說要百分之三十才能申請的話那這不是開全天下玩笑嗎就是之前你們大筆一揮一動不是要七十就是要五十而且還說要執行了百分之三十\n\n7\n00:02:02,506 --> 00:02:11,573\n當時說這個凍結是為了要認真監督現在逼你們趕快提出來解凍那不就是逼你們在一個月之內趕快把百分之三十給花掉請問部長可以這樣子來使用預算您會這樣用預算嗎\n\n8\n00:02:16,607 --> 00:02:31,717\n不會因為預算執行都要嚴格的監督因為其實三成啊如果12個月那就是要到4月才能夠接近三成嘛現在才4月嘛那當然而且這個應該是講以時間來算啦到了4月我們第一季才有機會把它過完嘛但是預算是可能用一季一季來執行的嗎我相信很多的預算\n\n9\n00:02:45,266 --> 00:02:52,991\n他其實是一整筆規劃出去對不對對他不會說4月底就結束他可能要執行到年底但預算已經啟動所以這個是三層確實是很難去做這樣的一個要求啦\n\n10\n00:02:59,505 --> 00:03:23,468\n就是說才解凍如果要的話因為立法院會期也有限制啊那我們的很多的項目現在要我們無法啟動比如說跟國際的很多的這些合作案你不能等到這個所謂的執行30你現在就一執行它就會違反它已經幫我們凍結了而且我現在不能夠提案去解凍\n\n11\n00:03:24,729 --> 00:03:35,137\n所以根本無法啟動所以這根本就是邏輯上面的妙物所以為什麼本席想要利用這質詢的短短的幾分鐘時間讓部長好好回答因為等一下國民黨的委員上來你可能沒有辦法把這中間的邏輯講清楚\n\n12\n00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,202\n因為這就是設計了一個完全讓你動彈不得所以這也是為什麼卓榮泰卓院長當時在跟人民宣講跟人民報告的時候特別提到了解凍就等同刪除因為就像您剛剛所說的\n\n13\n00:03:55,157 --> 00:04:11,556\n他說要執行百分之三十才能申請解凍但是就像您所說的有一些他一發包出去可能就超過三十了那你就不能動因為你一旦動你是不是就違反立法院的決議那所以面對這樣的狀況部長我們現在該怎麼辦呢\n\n14\n00:04:14,997 --> 00:04:39,519\n如果要問我有沒有什麼亡羊補牢我們一個一個來解其中以前都是委員會審查就通過是不是可以請大院通過一個決議交回來委員會這樣子還可以爭取一點時間不然如果現在大院的議程還在總質詢還有專案的報告還有其他的這個是會沒有時間\n\n15\n00:04:42,021 --> 00:05:01,288\n大院來通過任何一項所以我覺得我有跟外交國防委員們報告因為這個真的是外交是不分黨派尤其是假設到現在這個所謂的凍結50%我們的外館到6月30號就要打烊的話這個真的傷害國家之大\n\n16\n00:05:02,654 --> 00:05:21,856\n那這樣也都是外館的約聘人員也不能用那些水電啊等等的話這個真的是已經迫在眉梢了啦必須要趕快為之處理對確實部長講出來重點就是在這個業務費的部分很多人都會認為說業務費不知道是什麼其實外館的水電房租租金日常\n\n17\n00:05:22,376 --> 00:05:30,143\n非執行業務的所用的其實通通都在這個所謂業務費然後更不要講說我們像國外旅費被刪了15%一般事務費被刪10%那麼媒體宣傳費更是全部的刪除喔我想剛剛前面沈博洋委員提到的我們過去有機會跟國際的媒體來做合作好好的來行銷跟宣傳台灣我想如果大家有去看YouTube就知道隨便打一個中國中國的旅遊\n\n18\n00:05:49,099 --> 00:06:06,255\n中國有許多他們狹下的官媒所做的這個什麼舌尖上的中國啦然後中國的好吃、好喝、好玩的這種行銷其實是遍佈整個網路世界我們其實真的單單只是就\n\n19\n00:06:07,136 --> 00:06:20,715\n不涉政治只是單獨的國家的形象宣傳旅遊可能都已經比他們來的弱勢如果現在宣傳費又全部刪除其實這個等於是等同讓我們在國際上面噤聲\n\n20\n00:06:23,078 --> 00:06:38,167\n那我們如果是這樣的話真的部長還是要想出一些方法另外我要講的就像剛剛部長你所提到的國外旅費的部分因為本席來國防外交委員會之後確實有許多到國外去也看到外管同仁非常的辛苦喔我就來講這個藍白亂砍刪除預算之後原定編定的10億5582萬元\n\n21\n00:06:45,131 --> 00:07:05,895\n因為以前面凍結50%然後呢可用的部分又有包括之前的15%被刪掉因為有所謂的統刪如果我隨便以一個畫大餅來給大家看你就會發現其實剩下的只剩下35%所以可用的大概是6億6千多萬不到6億7千萬那麼對於外館來講我們知道我們很多的外館\n\n22\n00:07:10,936 --> 00:07:30,324\n它其實是幅員遼闊然後很多的這些如果他們國外的差旅費被縮減到只剩下35%的時候那麼現在他們如何來進行他們的差旅或管務應該要如何來維持總不能一直都坐在辦公室裡面不出門吧\n\n23\n00:07:31,345 --> 00:07:45,470\n跟委員報告這影響我舉例子來講比如說我們要派人員到外館或是說調他派的住館這個都需要用到這一筆費用也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來\n\n24\n00:07:48,251 --> 00:08:03,773\n另外當然我們自己也許我們出訪我們盡量的減少一點但是立法委員也要出訪啊像最近委員會就會到美國嘛那這個也都是在這一筆預算裡面那我們也到底是不是應該等比例統三十五趴\n\n25\n00:08:04,834 --> 00:08:28,495\n還是怎麼樣其實這個很頭痛啦我們同仁就是想說怎麼去處理這些問題因為如果說等比例的話那都要一併35%嘛可是我們還是覺得立委出國其實對台灣來講是很有幫助的而且到華府啊去替台灣發聲而且是跨黨派的所以這個部分我也是跟同仁講說我們就算再辛苦啦立委的部分我們怎麼樣讓大家能夠出榜為台灣來發聲\n\n26\n00:08:30,276 --> 00:08:58,113\n好我覺得喔其實在這個預算的凍結的過程中其實民進黨的立法委員同樣的也希望能夠爭取預算解凍但是如果以國民黨在我們當時院會當中表決所通過的很多他設下了許多你看不到的陷阱那麼如果你們沒有講清楚就會變成是你們好像不願意解凍或是故意不解凍但是就像我前面說的他們用一個一個的限制讓你們根本動彈不得\n\n27\n00:08:59,895 --> 00:09:08,207\n這個部分必須要對外講清楚因為民進黨也希望協助只是我們人數上表決不贏但是論輸不能輸好嗎部長好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n272\t1386\t謝謝主席 主席有請林部長\n10732\t21537\t部長好時間來到了這個4月底那我們知道這個二月份總預算復議之後現在國民黨開始針對總預算的解凍那麼我想從剛剛這個一路下來我想等一下可能蠻多國民黨的委員要詢問其實我也想問這個問題因為呢我確實也發現了國民黨最近包括他們剛剛黨團好像也開了個記者會那麼也開始在講\n38806\t53852\t到底為什麼不預算解凍我先帶大家來看一下這個部分國民黨他們確實做了一個所謂預算解凍的倒數計時器我剛看了一個最新的他們現在已經說是總統公告總預算通過已經來到了31天\n55453\t64085\t但是我想國民黨在講這個預算解凍的時候可能自己沒有搞清楚或是真的就是盲投盲表決連自己當時我們挑燈夜戰通過了什麼案子可能都不知道我來幫國民黨念一下這個是當時我們表決而且我們覺得萬萬不可的\n72616\t94662\t在有關於外交部總體部本部的預算當中他說外交部的業務費要凍結本來是70後來手寫改成了50可是他說要等到執行30%之後才能申請解凍而且還要院會同意所以言下之意現在二月份才剛過而且總統公佈嘛那麼現在才幾天請問我們現在執行超過30%了嗎\n101919\t119945\t剛剛還沒有如果做剛剛委員提的那個時間點的話是啊而且如果說要百分之三十才能申請的話那這不是開全天下玩笑嗎就是之前你們大筆一揮一動不是要七十就是要五十而且還說要執行了百分之三十\n122506\t131573\t當時說這個凍結是為了要認真監督現在逼你們趕快提出來解凍那不就是逼你們在一個月之內趕快把百分之三十給花掉請問部長可以這樣子來使用預算您會這樣用預算嗎\n136607\t151717\t不會因為預算執行都要嚴格的監督因為其實三成啊如果12個月那就是要到4月才能夠接近三成嘛現在才4月嘛那當然而且這個應該是講以時間來算啦到了4月我們第一季才有機會把它過完嘛但是預算是可能用一季一季來執行的嗎我相信很多的預算\n165266\t172991\t他其實是一整筆規劃出去對不對對他不會說4月底就結束他可能要執行到年底但預算已經啟動所以這個是三層確實是很難去做這樣的一個要求啦\n179505\t203468\t就是說才解凍 如果要的話因為立法院會期也有限制啊那我們的很多的項目現在要我們無法啟動 比如說跟國際的很多的這些合作案你不能等到這個所謂的執行30你現在就一執行 它就會違反它已經幫我們凍結了而且我現在不能夠提案去解凍\n204729\t215137\t所以根本無法啟動所以這根本就是邏輯上面的妙物所以為什麼本席想要利用這質詢的短短的幾分鐘時間讓部長好好回答因為等一下國民黨的委員上來你可能沒有辦法把這中間的邏輯講清楚\n219560\t221202\t因為這就是設計了一個完全讓你動彈不得所以這也是為什麼卓榮泰卓院長當時在跟人民宣講跟人民報告的時候特別提到了解凍就等同刪除因為就像您剛剛所說的\n235157\t251556\t他說要執行百分之三十才能申請解凍但是就像您所說的有一些他一發包出去可能就超過三十了那你就不能動因為你一旦動你是不是就違反立法院的決議那所以面對這樣的狀況部長我們現在該怎麼辦呢\n254997\t279519\t如果要問我有沒有什麼亡羊補牢我們一個一個來解其中以前都是委員會審查就通過是不是可以請大院通過一個決議交回來委員會這樣子還可以爭取一點時間不然如果現在大院的議程還在總質詢還有專案的報告還有其他的這個是會沒有時間\n282021\t301288\t大院來通過任何一項所以我覺得我有跟外交國防委員們報告因為這個真的是外交是不分黨派尤其是假設到現在這個所謂的凍結50%我們的外館到6月30號就要打烊的話這個真的傷害國家之大\n302654\t321856\t那這樣也都是外館的約聘人員也不能用那些水電啊等等的話這個真的是已經迫在眉梢了啦必須要趕快為之處理對確實部長講出來重點就是在這個業務費的部分很多人都會認為說業務費不知道是什麼其實外館的水電房租租金日常\n322376\t330143\t非執行業務的所用的其實通通都在這個所謂業務費然後更不要講說我們像國外旅費被刪了15%一般事務費被刪10%那麼媒體宣傳費更是全部的刪除喔我想剛剛前面沈博洋委員提到的我們過去有機會跟國際的媒體來做合作好好的來行銷跟宣傳台灣我想如果大家有去看YouTube就知道隨便打一個中國中國的旅遊\n349099\t366255\t中國有許多他們狹下的官媒所做的這個什麼舌尖上的中國啦然後中國的好吃、好喝、好玩的這種行銷其實是遍佈整個網路世界我們其實真的單單只是就\n367136\t380715\t不涉政治只是單獨的國家的形象宣傳旅遊可能都已經比他們來的弱勢如果現在宣傳費又全部刪除其實這個等於是等同讓我們在國際上面噤聲\n383078\t398167\t那我們如果是這樣的話真的部長還是要想出一些方法另外我要講的就像剛剛部長你所提到的國外旅費的部分因為本席來國防外交委員會之後確實有許多到國外去也看到外管同仁非常的辛苦喔我就來講這個藍白亂砍刪除預算之後原定編定的10億5582萬元\n405131\t425895\t因為以前面凍結50%然後呢可用的部分又有包括之前的15%被刪掉因為有所謂的統刪如果我隨便以一個畫大餅來給大家看你就會發現其實剩下的只剩下35%所以可用的大概是6億6千多萬不到6億7千萬那麼對於外館來講我們知道我們很多的外館\n430936\t450324\t它其實是幅員遼闊然後很多的這些如果他們國外的差旅費被縮減到只剩下35%的時候那麼現在他們如何來進行他們的差旅或管務應該要如何來維持總不能一直都坐在辦公室裡面不出門吧\n451345\t465470\t跟委員報告 這影響我舉例子來講 比如說我們要派人員到外館或是說調他派的住館這個都需要用到這一筆費用也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來\n468251\t483773\t另外當然我們自己也許我們出訪我們盡量的減少一點但是立法委員也要出訪啊像最近委員會就會到美國嘛那這個也都是在這一筆預算裡面那我們也到底是不是應該等比例統三十五趴\n484834\t508495\t還是怎麼樣其實這個很頭痛啦我們同仁就是想說怎麼去處理這些問題因為如果說等比例的話那都要一併35%嘛可是我們還是覺得立委出國其實對台灣來講是很有幫助的而且到華府啊去替台灣發聲而且是跨黨派的所以這個部分我也是跟同仁講說我們就算再辛苦啦立委的部分我們怎麼樣讓大家能夠出榜為台灣來發聲\n510276\t538113\t好我覺得喔其實在這個預算的凍結的過程中其實民進黨的立法委員同樣的也希望能夠爭取預算解凍但是如果以國民黨在我們當時院會當中表決所通過的很多他設下了許多你看不到的陷阱那麼如果你們沒有講清楚就會變成是你們好像不願意解凍或是故意不解凍但是就像我前面說的他們用一個一個的限制讓你們根本動彈不得\n539895\t548207\t這個部分必須要對外講清楚因為民進黨也希望協助只是我們人數上表決不贏但是論輸不能輸好嗎 部長好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請林部長\n部長好時間來到了這個4月底那我們知道這個二月份總預算復議之後現在國民黨開始針對總預算的解凍那麼我想從剛剛這個一路下來我想等一下可能蠻多國民黨的委員要詢問其實我也想問這個問題因為呢我確實也發現了國民黨最近包括他們剛剛黨團好像也開了個記者會那麼也開始在講\n到底為什麼不預算解凍我先帶大家來看一下這個部分國民黨他們確實做了一個所謂預算解凍的倒數計時器我剛看了一個最新的他們現在已經說是總統公告總預算通過已經來到了31天\n但是我想國民黨在講這個預算解凍的時候可能自己沒有搞清楚或是真的就是盲投盲表決連自己當時我們挑燈夜戰通過了什麼案子可能都不知道我來幫國民黨念一下這個是當時我們表決而且我們覺得萬萬不可的\n在有關於外交部總體部本部的預算當中他說外交部的業務費要凍結本來是70後來手寫改成了50可是他說要等到執行30%之後才能申請解凍而且還要院會同意所以言下之意現在二月份才剛過而且總統公佈嘛那麼現在才幾天請問我們現在執行超過30%了嗎\n剛剛還沒有如果做剛剛委員提的那個時間點的話是啊而且如果說要百分之三十才能申請的話那這不是開全天下玩笑嗎就是之前你們大筆一揮一動不是要七十就是要五十而且還說要執行了百分之三十\n當時說這個凍結是為了要認真監督現在逼你們趕快提出來解凍那不就是逼你們在一個月之內趕快把百分之三十給花掉請問部長可以這樣子來使用預算您會這樣用預算嗎\n不會因為預算執行都要嚴格的監督因為其實三成啊如果12個月那就是要到4月才能夠接近三成嘛現在才4月嘛那當然而且這個應該是講以時間來算啦到了4月我們第一季才有機會把它過完嘛但是預算是可能用一季一季來執行的嗎我相信很多的預算\n他其實是一整筆規劃出去對不對對他不會說4月底就結束他可能要執行到年底但預算已經啟動所以這個是三層確實是很難去做這樣的一個要求啦\n就是說才解凍 如果要的話因為立法院會期也有限制啊那我們的很多的項目現在要我們無法啟動 比如說跟國際的很多的這些合作案你不能等到這個所謂的執行30你現在就一執行 它就會違反它已經幫我們凍結了而且我現在不能夠提案去解凍\n所以根本無法啟動所以這根本就是邏輯上面的妙物所以為什麼本席想要利用這質詢的短短的幾分鐘時間讓部長好好回答因為等一下國民黨的委員上來你可能沒有辦法把這中間的邏輯講清楚\n因為這就是設計了一個完全讓你動彈不得所以這也是為什麼卓榮泰卓院長當時在跟人民宣講跟人民報告的時候特別提到了解凍就等同刪除因為就像您剛剛所說的\n他說要執行百分之三十才能申請解凍但是就像您所說的有一些他一發包出去可能就超過三十了那你就不能動因為你一旦動你是不是就違反立法院的決議那所以面對這樣的狀況部長我們現在該怎麼辦呢\n如果要問我有沒有什麼亡羊補牢我們一個一個來解其中以前都是委員會審查就通過是不是可以請大院通過一個決議交回來委員會這樣子還可以爭取一點時間不然如果現在大院的議程還在總質詢還有專案的報告還有其他的這個是會沒有時間\n大院來通過任何一項所以我覺得我有跟外交國防委員們報告因為這個真的是外交是不分黨派尤其是假設到現在這個所謂的凍結50%我們的外館到6月30號就要打烊的話這個真的傷害國家之大\n那這樣也都是外館的約聘人員也不能用那些水電啊等等的話這個真的是已經迫在眉梢了啦必須要趕快為之處理對確實部長講出來重點就是在這個業務費的部分很多人都會認為說業務費不知道是什麼其實外館的水電房租租金日常\n非執行業務的所用的其實通通都在這個所謂業務費然後更不要講說我們像國外旅費被刪了15%一般事務費被刪10%那麼媒體宣傳費更是全部的刪除喔我想剛剛前面沈博洋委員提到的我們過去有機會跟國際的媒體來做合作好好的來行銷跟宣傳台灣我想如果大家有去看YouTube就知道隨便打一個中國中國的旅遊\n中國有許多他們狹下的官媒所做的這個什麼舌尖上的中國啦然後中國的好吃、好喝、好玩的這種行銷其實是遍佈整個網路世界我們其實真的單單只是就\n不涉政治只是單獨的國家的形象宣傳旅遊可能都已經比他們來的弱勢如果現在宣傳費又全部刪除其實這個等於是等同讓我們在國際上面噤聲\n那我們如果是這樣的話真的部長還是要想出一些方法另外我要講的就像剛剛部長你所提到的國外旅費的部分因為本席來國防外交委員會之後確實有許多到國外去也看到外管同仁非常的辛苦喔我就來講這個藍白亂砍刪除預算之後原定編定的10億5582萬元\n因為以前面凍結50%然後呢可用的部分又有包括之前的15%被刪掉因為有所謂的統刪如果我隨便以一個畫大餅來給大家看你就會發現其實剩下的只剩下35%所以可用的大概是6億6千多萬不到6億7千萬那麼對於外館來講我們知道我們很多的外館\n它其實是幅員遼闊然後很多的這些如果他們國外的差旅費被縮減到只剩下35%的時候那麼現在他們如何來進行他們的差旅或管務應該要如何來維持總不能一直都坐在辦公室裡面不出門吧\n跟委員報告 這影響我舉例子來講 比如說我們要派人員到外館或是說調他派的住館這個都需要用到這一筆費用也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來\n另外當然我們自己也許我們出訪我們盡量的減少一點但是立法委員也要出訪啊像最近委員會就會到美國嘛那這個也都是在這一筆預算裡面那我們也到底是不是應該等比例統三十五趴\n還是怎麼樣其實這個很頭痛啦我們同仁就是想說怎麼去處理這些問題因為如果說等比例的話那都要一併35%嘛可是我們還是覺得立委出國其實對台灣來講是很有幫助的而且到華府啊去替台灣發聲而且是跨黨派的所以這個部分我也是跟同仁講說我們就算再辛苦啦立委的部分我們怎麼樣讓大家能夠出榜為台灣來發聲\n好我覺得喔其實在這個預算的凍結的過程中其實民進黨的立法委員同樣的也希望能夠爭取預算解凍但是如果以國民黨在我們當時院會當中表決所通過的很多他設下了許多你看不到的陷阱那麼如果你們沒有講清楚就會變成是你們好像不願意解凍或是故意不解凍但是就像我前面說的他們用一個一個的限制讓你們根本動彈不得\n這個部分必須要對外講清楚因為民進黨也希望協助只是我們人數上表決不贏但是論輸不能輸好嗎 部長好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.272 --> 00:01.386\n謝謝主席主席有請林部長\n\n00:10.732 --> 00:21.537\n部長好時間來到了這個4月底那我們知道這個二月份總預算復議之後現在國民黨開始針對總預算的解凍那麼我想從剛剛這個一路下來我想等一下可能蠻多國民黨的委員要詢問其實我也想問這個問題因為呢我確實也發現了國民黨最近包括他們剛剛黨團好像也開了個記者會那麼也開始在講\n\n00:38.806 --> 00:53.852\n到底為什麼不預算解凍我先帶大家來看一下這個部分國民黨他們確實做了一個所謂預算解凍的倒數計時器我剛看了一個最新的他們現在已經說是總統公告總預算通過已經來到了31天\n\n00:55.453 --> 01:04.085\n但是我想國民黨在講這個預算解凍的時候可能自己沒有搞清楚或是真的就是盲投盲表決連自己當時我們挑燈夜戰通過了什麼案子可能都不知道我來幫國民黨念一下這個是當時我們表決而且我們覺得萬萬不可的\n\n01:12.616 --> 01:34.662\n在有關於外交部總體部本部的預算當中他說外交部的業務費要凍結本來是70後來手寫改成了50可是他說要等到執行30%之後才能申請解凍而且還要院會同意所以言下之意現在二月份才剛過而且總統公佈嘛那麼現在才幾天請問我們現在執行超過30%了嗎\n\n01:41.919 --> 01:59.945\n剛剛還沒有如果做剛剛委員提的那個時間點的話是啊而且如果說要百分之三十才能申請的話那這不是開全天下玩笑嗎就是之前你們大筆一揮一動不是要七十就是要五十而且還說要執行了百分之三十\n\n02:02.506 --> 02:11.573\n當時說這個凍結是為了要認真監督現在逼你們趕快提出來解凍那不就是逼你們在一個月之內趕快把百分之三十給花掉請問部長可以這樣子來使用預算您會這樣用預算嗎\n\n02:16.607 --> 02:31.717\n不會因為預算執行都要嚴格的監督因為其實三成啊如果12個月那就是要到4月才能夠接近三成嘛現在才4月嘛那當然而且這個應該是講以時間來算啦到了4月我們第一季才有機會把它過完嘛但是預算是可能用一季一季來執行的嗎我相信很多的預算\n\n02:45.266 --> 02:52.991\n他其實是一整筆規劃出去對不對對他不會說4月底就結束他可能要執行到年底但預算已經啟動所以這個是三層確實是很難去做這樣的一個要求啦\n\n02:59.505 --> 03:23.468\n就是說才解凍如果要的話因為立法院會期也有限制啊那我們的很多的項目現在要我們無法啟動比如說跟國際的很多的這些合作案你不能等到這個所謂的執行30你現在就一執行它就會違反它已經幫我們凍結了而且我現在不能夠提案去解凍\n\n03:24.729 --> 03:35.137\n所以根本無法啟動所以這根本就是邏輯上面的妙物所以為什麼本席想要利用這質詢的短短的幾分鐘時間讓部長好好回答因為等一下國民黨的委員上來你可能沒有辦法把這中間的邏輯講清楚\n\n03:39.560 --> 03:41.202\n因為這就是設計了一個完全讓你動彈不得所以這也是為什麼卓榮泰卓院長當時在跟人民宣講跟人民報告的時候特別提到了解凍就等同刪除因為就像您剛剛所說的\n\n03:55.157 --> 04:11.556\n他說要執行百分之三十才能申請解凍但是就像您所說的有一些他一發包出去可能就超過三十了那你就不能動因為你一旦動你是不是就違反立法院的決議那所以面對這樣的狀況部長我們現在該怎麼辦呢\n\n04:14.997 --> 04:39.519\n如果要問我有沒有什麼亡羊補牢我們一個一個來解其中以前都是委員會審查就通過是不是可以請大院通過一個決議交回來委員會這樣子還可以爭取一點時間不然如果現在大院的議程還在總質詢還有專案的報告還有其他的這個是會沒有時間\n\n04:42.021 --> 05:01.288\n大院來通過任何一項所以我覺得我有跟外交國防委員們報告因為這個真的是外交是不分黨派尤其是假設到現在這個所謂的凍結50%我們的外館到6月30號就要打烊的話這個真的傷害國家之大\n\n05:02.654 --> 05:21.856\n那這樣也都是外館的約聘人員也不能用那些水電啊等等的話這個真的是已經迫在眉梢了啦必須要趕快為之處理對確實部長講出來重點就是在這個業務費的部分很多人都會認為說業務費不知道是什麼其實外館的水電房租租金日常\n\n05:22.376 --> 05:30.143\n非執行業務的所用的其實通通都在這個所謂業務費然後更不要講說我們像國外旅費被刪了15%一般事務費被刪10%那麼媒體宣傳費更是全部的刪除喔我想剛剛前面沈博洋委員提到的我們過去有機會跟國際的媒體來做合作好好的來行銷跟宣傳台灣我想如果大家有去看YouTube就知道隨便打一個中國中國的旅遊\n\n05:49.099 --> 06:06.255\n中國有許多他們狹下的官媒所做的這個什麼舌尖上的中國啦然後中國的好吃、好喝、好玩的這種行銷其實是遍佈整個網路世界我們其實真的單單只是就\n\n06:07.136 --> 06:20.715\n不涉政治只是單獨的國家的形象宣傳旅遊可能都已經比他們來的弱勢如果現在宣傳費又全部刪除其實這個等於是等同讓我們在國際上面噤聲\n\n06:23.078 --> 06:38.167\n那我們如果是這樣的話真的部長還是要想出一些方法另外我要講的就像剛剛部長你所提到的國外旅費的部分因為本席來國防外交委員會之後確實有許多到國外去也看到外管同仁非常的辛苦喔我就來講這個藍白亂砍刪除預算之後原定編定的10億5582萬元\n\n06:45.131 --> 07:05.895\n因為以前面凍結50%然後呢可用的部分又有包括之前的15%被刪掉因為有所謂的統刪如果我隨便以一個畫大餅來給大家看你就會發現其實剩下的只剩下35%所以可用的大概是6億6千多萬不到6億7千萬那麼對於外館來講我們知道我們很多的外館\n\n07:10.936 --> 07:30.324\n它其實是幅員遼闊然後很多的這些如果他們國外的差旅費被縮減到只剩下35%的時候那麼現在他們如何來進行他們的差旅或管務應該要如何來維持總不能一直都坐在辦公室裡面不出門吧\n\n07:31.345 --> 07:45.470\n跟委員報告這影響我舉例子來講比如說我們要派人員到外館或是說調他派的住館這個都需要用到這一筆費用也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來\n\n07:48.251 --> 08:03.773\n另外當然我們自己也許我們出訪我們盡量的減少一點但是立法委員也要出訪啊像最近委員會就會到美國嘛那這個也都是在這一筆預算裡面那我們也到底是不是應該等比例統三十五趴\n\n08:04.834 --> 08:28.495\n還是怎麼樣其實這個很頭痛啦我們同仁就是想說怎麼去處理這些問題因為如果說等比例的話那都要一併35%嘛可是我們還是覺得立委出國其實對台灣來講是很有幫助的而且到華府啊去替台灣發聲而且是跨黨派的所以這個部分我也是跟同仁講說我們就算再辛苦啦立委的部分我們怎麼樣讓大家能夠出榜為台灣來發聲\n\n08:30.276 --> 08:58.113\n好我覺得喔其實在這個預算的凍結的過程中其實民進黨的立法委員同樣的也希望能夠爭取預算解凍但是如果以國民黨在我們當時院會當中表決所通過的很多他設下了許多你看不到的陷阱那麼如果你們沒有講清楚就會變成是你們好像不願意解凍或是故意不解凍但是就像我前面說的他們用一個一個的限制讓你們根本動彈不得\n\n08:59.895 --> 09:08.207\n這個部分必須要對外講清楚因為民進黨也希望協助只是我們人數上表決不贏但是論輸不能輸好嗎部長好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.272,"end":1.386,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請林部長"},{"start":10.732,"end":21.537,"text":"部長好時間來到了這個4月底那我們知道這個二月份總預算復議之後現在國民黨開始針對總預算的解凍那麼我想從剛剛這個一路下來我想等一下可能蠻多國民黨的委員要詢問其實我也想問這個問題因為呢我確實也發現了國民黨最近包括他們剛剛黨團好像也開了個記者會那麼也開始在講"},{"start":38.806,"end":53.852,"text":"到底為什麼不預算解凍我先帶大家來看一下這個部分國民黨他們確實做了一個所謂預算解凍的倒數計時器我剛看了一個最新的他們現在已經說是總統公告總預算通過已經來到了31天"},{"start":55.453,"end":64.085,"text":"但是我想國民黨在講這個預算解凍的時候可能自己沒有搞清楚或是真的就是盲投盲表決連自己當時我們挑燈夜戰通過了什麼案子可能都不知道我來幫國民黨念一下這個是當時我們表決而且我們覺得萬萬不可的"},{"start":72.616,"end":94.662,"text":"在有關於外交部總體部本部的預算當中他說外交部的業務費要凍結本來是70後來手寫改成了50可是他說要等到執行30%之後才能申請解凍而且還要院會同意所以言下之意現在二月份才剛過而且總統公佈嘛那麼現在才幾天請問我們現在執行超過30%了嗎"},{"start":101.919,"end":119.945,"text":"剛剛還沒有如果做剛剛委員提的那個時間點的話是啊而且如果說要百分之三十才能申請的話那這不是開全天下玩笑嗎就是之前你們大筆一揮一動不是要七十就是要五十而且還說要執行了百分之三十"},{"start":122.506,"end":131.573,"text":"當時說這個凍結是為了要認真監督現在逼你們趕快提出來解凍那不就是逼你們在一個月之內趕快把百分之三十給花掉請問部長可以這樣子來使用預算您會這樣用預算嗎"},{"start":136.607,"end":151.717,"text":"不會因為預算執行都要嚴格的監督因為其實三成啊如果12個月那就是要到4月才能夠接近三成嘛現在才4月嘛那當然而且這個應該是講以時間來算啦到了4月我們第一季才有機會把它過完嘛但是預算是可能用一季一季來執行的嗎我相信很多的預算"},{"start":165.266,"end":172.991,"text":"他其實是一整筆規劃出去對不對對他不會說4月底就結束他可能要執行到年底但預算已經啟動所以這個是三層確實是很難去做這樣的一個要求啦"},{"start":179.505,"end":203.468,"text":"就是說才解凍 如果要的話因為立法院會期也有限制啊那我們的很多的項目現在要我們無法啟動 比如說跟國際的很多的這些合作案你不能等到這個所謂的執行30你現在就一執行 它就會違反它已經幫我們凍結了而且我現在不能夠提案去解凍"},{"start":204.729,"end":215.137,"text":"所以根本無法啟動所以這根本就是邏輯上面的妙物所以為什麼本席想要利用這質詢的短短的幾分鐘時間讓部長好好回答因為等一下國民黨的委員上來你可能沒有辦法把這中間的邏輯講清楚"},{"start":219.56,"end":221.202,"text":"因為這就是設計了一個完全讓你動彈不得所以這也是為什麼卓榮泰卓院長當時在跟人民宣講跟人民報告的時候特別提到了解凍就等同刪除因為就像您剛剛所說的"},{"start":235.157,"end":251.556,"text":"他說要執行百分之三十才能申請解凍但是就像您所說的有一些他一發包出去可能就超過三十了那你就不能動因為你一旦動你是不是就違反立法院的決議那所以面對這樣的狀況部長我們現在該怎麼辦呢"},{"start":254.997,"end":279.519,"text":"如果要問我有沒有什麼亡羊補牢我們一個一個來解其中以前都是委員會審查就通過是不是可以請大院通過一個決議交回來委員會這樣子還可以爭取一點時間不然如果現在大院的議程還在總質詢還有專案的報告還有其他的這個是會沒有時間"},{"start":282.021,"end":301.288,"text":"大院來通過任何一項所以我覺得我有跟外交國防委員們報告因為這個真的是外交是不分黨派尤其是假設到現在這個所謂的凍結50%我們的外館到6月30號就要打烊的話這個真的傷害國家之大"},{"start":302.654,"end":321.856,"text":"那這樣也都是外館的約聘人員也不能用那些水電啊等等的話這個真的是已經迫在眉梢了啦必須要趕快為之處理對確實部長講出來重點就是在這個業務費的部分很多人都會認為說業務費不知道是什麼其實外館的水電房租租金日常"},{"start":322.376,"end":330.143,"text":"非執行業務的所用的其實通通都在這個所謂業務費然後更不要講說我們像國外旅費被刪了15%一般事務費被刪10%那麼媒體宣傳費更是全部的刪除喔我想剛剛前面沈博洋委員提到的我們過去有機會跟國際的媒體來做合作好好的來行銷跟宣傳台灣我想如果大家有去看YouTube就知道隨便打一個中國中國的旅遊"},{"start":349.099,"end":366.255,"text":"中國有許多他們狹下的官媒所做的這個什麼舌尖上的中國啦然後中國的好吃、好喝、好玩的這種行銷其實是遍佈整個網路世界我們其實真的單單只是就"},{"start":367.136,"end":380.715,"text":"不涉政治只是單獨的國家的形象宣傳旅遊可能都已經比他們來的弱勢如果現在宣傳費又全部刪除其實這個等於是等同讓我們在國際上面噤聲"},{"start":383.078,"end":398.167,"text":"那我們如果是這樣的話真的部長還是要想出一些方法另外我要講的就像剛剛部長你所提到的國外旅費的部分因為本席來國防外交委員會之後確實有許多到國外去也看到外管同仁非常的辛苦喔我就來講這個藍白亂砍刪除預算之後原定編定的10億5582萬元"},{"start":405.131,"end":425.895,"text":"因為以前面凍結50%然後呢可用的部分又有包括之前的15%被刪掉因為有所謂的統刪如果我隨便以一個畫大餅來給大家看你就會發現其實剩下的只剩下35%所以可用的大概是6億6千多萬不到6億7千萬那麼對於外館來講我們知道我們很多的外館"},{"start":430.936,"end":450.324,"text":"它其實是幅員遼闊然後很多的這些如果他們國外的差旅費被縮減到只剩下35%的時候那麼現在他們如何來進行他們的差旅或管務應該要如何來維持總不能一直都坐在辦公室裡面不出門吧"},{"start":451.345,"end":465.47,"text":"跟委員報告 這影響我舉例子來講 比如說我們要派人員到外館或是說調他派的住館這個都需要用到這一筆費用也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來"},{"start":468.251,"end":483.773,"text":"另外當然我們自己也許我們出訪我們盡量的減少一點但是立法委員也要出訪啊像最近委員會就會到美國嘛那這個也都是在這一筆預算裡面那我們也到底是不是應該等比例統三十五趴"},{"start":484.834,"end":508.495,"text":"還是怎麼樣其實這個很頭痛啦我們同仁就是想說怎麼去處理這些問題因為如果說等比例的話那都要一併35%嘛可是我們還是覺得立委出國其實對台灣來講是很有幫助的而且到華府啊去替台灣發聲而且是跨黨派的所以這個部分我也是跟同仁講說我們就算再辛苦啦立委的部分我們怎麼樣讓大家能夠出榜為台灣來發聲"},{"start":510.276,"end":538.113,"text":"好我覺得喔其實在這個預算的凍結的過程中其實民進黨的立法委員同樣的也希望能夠爭取預算解凍但是如果以國民黨在我們當時院會當中表決所通過的很多他設下了許多你看不到的陷阱那麼如果你們沒有講清楚就會變成是你們好像不願意解凍或是故意不解凍但是就像我前面說的他們用一個一個的限制讓你們根本動彈不得"},{"start":539.895,"end":548.207,"text":"這個部分必須要對外講清楚因為民進黨也希望協助只是我們人數上表決不贏但是論輸不能輸好嗎 部長好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":236,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時23分）謝謝主席。主席，有請林部長。","部長好！"],["林部長佳龍：委員好！"],["林委員楚茵：時間來到了4月底，我們知道，2月份總預算覆議之後，現在國民黨開始針對總預算的解凍，從剛剛一路下來，我想等一下可能蠻多國民黨的委員要詢問，其實我也想問這個問題，因為我確實也發現最近國民黨，包括剛剛他們黨團好像也開了一個記者會，也開始在講到底為什麼不提出預算解凍？我先帶大家來看一下這個部分。","國民黨確實做了預算解凍的倒數計時器，我剛剛看到一個最新的，他們現在說距離總統公告總預算已經過了31天。但是我想國民黨在講這個預算解凍的時候，可能自己沒有搞清楚，或是真的就是盲投、盲表決，連自己當時挑燈夜戰通過了什麼案子可能都不知道。","我來幫國民黨唸一下，這個是當時我們表決而且我們覺得萬萬不可的，在有關於外交部部本部的預算當中，外交部的業務費本來要凍結70%，後來手寫改成了50%，可是要等到執行30%之後才能申請解凍，還要院會同意。言下之意，現在2月份才剛過，總統公布到現在才幾天，請問我們現在執行超過30%了嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：應該還沒有，如果就剛剛委員提的那個時間點的話。"],["林委員楚茵：是啊！而且如果要執行30%才能申請的話，這不是開全天下玩笑嗎？之前他們大筆一揮，一凍不是要70%就是要50%，還說要執行30%，當時說這個凍結是為了要認真監督，現在逼你們趕快提出來解凍，那不就是逼你們在1個月之內趕快把30%花掉？請問部長，可以這樣使用預算嗎？您會這樣用預算嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：不會，因為預算執行都要嚴格的監督，如果12個月，就是要到4月才能夠接近三成，現在才4月……"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["林部長佳龍：而且這個……"],["林委員楚茵：應該講以時間來算，到了4月（第一季）才有機會把它用完……"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["林委員楚茵：但是預算可能用一季一季來執行的嗎？我相信很多預算其實是一整筆規劃出去，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：對，它不會4月底就結束，可能執行到年底，因為預算已經啟動，所以執行三成才能申請解凍這樣的要求確實是很難去做，立法院會期也有限制，現在我們很多項目無法啟動，比如跟國際的很多合作案，不能等到所謂的執行30%，但現在一執行，就會違反它已經被凍結，而且我現在還不能夠提案去解凍，所以根本無法啟動。"],["林委員楚茵：所以這根本就是邏輯上面的謬誤，這是為什麼本席想要利用這個質詢的短短幾分鐘時間讓部長好好回答，因為等一下國民黨的委員上來詢問，你可能沒有辦法把這中間的邏輯講清楚。這就是設計了一個讓你完全動彈不得的狀況，這也是為什麼卓榮泰院長當時在跟人民宣講、跟人民報告的時候，特別提到凍結就等同刪除。因為就像您剛剛所說的，他說要執行30%才能申請解凍，但是有些一發包出去可能就超過30%了，你就不能動，你一旦動，是不是就違反立法院的決議？"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["林委員楚茵：面對這樣的狀況，部長，我們現在該怎麼辦呢？"],["林部長佳龍：如果要問我有沒有什麼亡羊補牢的方法，讓我們一個一個來解？因為以前都是委員會審查就通過……"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["林部長佳龍：是不是可以請院會通過一個決議，交回來委員會……"],["林委員楚茵：OK。"],["林部長佳龍：這樣還可以爭取一點時間，不然，以現在院會的議程，還在總質詢，還有專案報告，還有其他的，會沒有時間從院會通過任何一項。所以我有跟外交及國防委員會的委員們報告，外交不分黨派，以現在這個所謂的凍結50%，假設我們的外館到6月30日就要打烊的話，真的傷害國家之大，外館的約聘人員也不能用，水電等等也不能用的話，這個真的是已經迫在眉梢了，必須要趕快危機處理。"],["林委員楚茵：對，確實部長講出來了重點，就是在業務費的部分，很多人都不知道業務費是什麼，其實外館的水電、房租、租金，日常非執行業務所用的，通通都在所謂的業務費；更不要講像國外旅費被刪了15%，一般事務費被刪10%，媒體宣傳費更是被全部刪除。剛剛前面沈伯洋委員提到，我們過去有機會跟國際媒體合作，好好行銷及宣傳臺灣。如果大家有去看YouTube就知道，隨便打上「中國」、「中國的旅遊」，中國轄下官媒做的有許多，像「舌尖上的中國」，中國好吃的、好喝的、好玩的這種行銷其實是遍布整個網路世界。我們不涉政治，只是單獨的國家的形象、宣傳、旅遊，可能都已經比他們來得弱勢，如果現在宣傳費又全部被刪除，其實這個等同讓我們在國際上面噤聲，如果是這樣的話，部長真的還是要想出一些方法。","另外，我要講的就是像剛剛部長提到的國外旅費，因為本席來國防及外交委員會之後確實有許多到國外去的機會，也看到外館同仁非常的辛苦。藍白亂砍、刪除預算之後，原本編列的10億5,582萬元，因為前面凍結50%，可用的部分又包括之前的統刪15%，如果我隨便畫一個大餅來給大家看，你就會發現其實只剩下35%，所以可用的大概是三億六千多萬，不到3億7,000萬。對於外館來講，我們很多的外館其實幅員遼闊，如果他們國外的差旅費被縮減到只剩下35%的時候，現在他們如何進行他們的差旅，或館務應該如何維持？總不能一直都坐在辦公室裡面不出門吧！"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，這產生的影響，我舉一個例子來講，比如說我們要派人員到外館或是調動他的駐館，都需要用到這一筆費用，也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來。另外，也許我們自己儘量減少一點出訪，但是立法委員也要出訪，像最近委員會就會到美國，這個也都是在這筆預算裡面……"],["林委員楚茵：是，這非常重要。"],["林部長佳龍：到底是不是應該等比例統刪15%，還是怎麼樣，這個很頭痛，我們同仁就是想說怎麼去處理這些問題。因為如果是等比例的話，那都要一併刪15%，可是我們還是覺得立委出國其實對臺灣來講是很有幫助的，尤其到華府去替臺灣發聲，而且是跨黨派的，所以這個部分我也是跟同仁講，我們就算再辛苦，立委的部分我們想辦法讓大家能夠出訪，為臺灣發聲。"],["林委員楚茵：我覺得在這個預算凍結的過程中，其實民進黨的立法委員同樣也希望能夠爭取預算解凍，但是如果以國民黨當時在院會當中表決通過的，它設下了許多你看不到的陷阱，如果你們沒有講清楚，就會變成你們好像不願意解凍或是故意不解凍。就像我前面說的，他們用一個、一個的限制讓你們根本動彈不得，這個部分必須要對外講清楚。民進黨也希望協助，只是我們人數上表決不贏，但是論述不能輸，好嗎？部長。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員上臺質詢。","接下來由王定宇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-9","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","林楚茵","王定宇","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","廖先翔","王鴻薇","張啓楷","李坤城","林憶君"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00002"}}}