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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:10,085\n這是我們這裡的補償補償在這裡喔在上禮拜妳好在上禮拜我們知道說貴重的責任去一個不應該自治的地方又有地方收到去高興但是我認為說補償做得很好\n\n2\n00:00:29,503 --> 00:00:32,506\n你剛才說全部都是寒鬆的,不然在那裡擁護你,在那裡玩多久我覺得對你會越大,會越來越多因為我覺得一個地方,你要集會遊行或要做什麼,應該都要去申請\n\n3\n00:00:53,388 --> 00:01:02,618\n國家有國家的法規啦我覺得最近這半天來我覺得大家想不去帶就不去帶像地檢署看了一輩子還來還派你們大小所以普天我覺得說你的\n\n4\n00:01:12,529 --> 00:01:17,090\n做法我認為非常好,可以讓你更加健康所以在定禮拜拜時的時候,你的做法,我認為利用全部寒鬆的不過我的感覺是,你對於定禮拜時這樣做\n\n5\n00:01:32,415 --> 00:01:36,799\n但是在這半年來也有這樣的綜合你是如何沒有看出這個全部來寒鬆來補充你會的事情感謝委員的指導我相信站在內政部的立場就是支持我們的經濟事務他們針對這個一契遊行法裡面會相關規定來辦理\n\n6\n00:01:55,658 --> 00:02:00,761\n所以我今天也有針對這個部分就是說我們經濟署的經濟動力尤其在處理這種聚眾的部分他們要有那個修正有確實然後把所有的證據都收集齊全之後應該函送的或者應該傳喚的就按照集會遊行法的相關規定來辦理但是呢因為我站在一個這個就是\n\n7\n00:02:22,851 --> 00:02:28,076\n督導那個警政的立場上面呢我就不針對個案來繼續發言因為他現在已經進入偵查的程序所以我覺得這樣子會比較好那過去好幾年當中呢我們在有關集會遊行的部分呢都有特別討論到禁制區\n\n8\n00:02:38,924 --> 00:02:59,460\n這個禁制區除了說譬如說是我們的這個中央政府所在地的要塞之外那還有軍事要塞那同時呢我們希望增加的像包括像這個這個法院或者是這個醫院因為醫院有很多這種聚眾滋擾的事件我們認為的不適合因為醫院是一個看病的地方不是來吵架的地方\n\n9\n00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:29,179\n那希望在禁制區裡面大家都能夠遵守那這個有遵守的話大家有這個遵守的規範的話呢那警方是站在雙方能夠平和來處理有關任何的爭議事件呢這是我們的初衷而不是為了要傳喚某人或是為了要做這個政治性上面的一個宣示我想這個都不是集會遊行法希望大家能夠本於原來的初衷把自己要表達的立場講得非常清楚之後但是就是要遵守集會遊行的規則\n\n10\n00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:35,926\n因為保證在這裏我覺得很好笑啦一個收到沒去收這個款又揮揮三尺沒這樣給北省看出他的做法我覺得他的年紀實在很差勁\n\n11\n00:03:51,983 --> 00:03:56,147\n所以在國家有國家的法律所以一定要有法律的人要讓他知道有法律的問題所以在這個規定當中我也覺得補充這個處理方法我覺得可以更多\n\n12\n00:04:11,175 --> 00:04:16,619\n會比較好不會對你說話會越來越嚴重我覺得一個社會一直對你如果我們不講道理互翻互補的時候這個國家會害來普通剛才你說到我們的行政化分化你們一定\n\n13\n00:04:32,557 --> 00:04:36,179\n日本的經濟嘛,在過去以來有八十一年到現在,尤其我們的大中共,也希望可以有這個做法,但是裡面的做法,有人提案\n\n14\n00:04:48,365 --> 00:04:51,066\n裡面有稍微不講,稍微不講的時候,也要問補充,以我自己來講,我自己,我也不問我的資源,我的零考數,我的生活圈,我自己,如果說,我們一張臉\n\n15\n00:05:09,636 --> 00:05:16,341\n追尋是不是可以未來加二次民用是不是可以未來加二次我也愿意這樣因為加二次在幾十年前跟新疆爬爬升級要不然我們中央的政府跟我們說你升級要不然在這裡你看不是跟法輪功升級就好了\n\n16\n00:05:36,255 --> 00:05:40,078\n是長久以來要怎麼阻止他你看他年紀和身體又有差喔再來這個過程中你的行政會看文化也會牽涉到\n\n17\n00:05:56,937 --> 00:06:04,300\n財政手法,這是都一樣在這裡的做法本身是要跟你說,這是非常大件事,不是說啊,青菜蓋蓋就好了每一項都要去了解去做,尤其是你認為本身說這樣\n\n18\n00:06:20,514 --> 00:06:34,819\n如果問政府的時候,他不要說道啦,我自己買那些零銷售,可以主管那些,跟財政可以再分那些的時候,是不是可以來補充,你回答一下感謝委員的關心,委員本來就是自己非常認真發表的民意代表我也要向委員報告,行政區劃法,我們是希望可以可長可久啦\n\n19\n00:06:48,965 --> 00:06:53,187\n不是因為今天這個地方有一個栗多,我每天都擠一擠在那裡,有栗差的話,大家都趕快遠離所以為什麼會碰到這個困難,就是說大家都想要好的,肥肉的部分,骨頭的部分,肌肉的部分就丟給別人\n\n20\n00:07:08,257 --> 00:07:25,952\n但是呢又希望好的部分留下來譬如說我剛剛有提到我們不管是地方制度或者是行政區的話在處理縣市合併的時候大家都希望好的合併那上一次有人在提到譬如說這個某一個縣市就是有很多科學園區的地方要不要合併這最重要現在科學園區的地方大家都不會走出來\n\n21\n00:07:30,776 --> 00:07:51,262\n對但是這個部分跟行政區化的這個規劃比較沒有相關可是科學園區是會改變的所以我們很希望說它是大家一起來討論就是說這個公平的一個遊戲規則怎麼樣制定出來那可以看得出來在都會區的民意代表跟在非都會區的民意代表的想像是不一樣的\n\n22\n00:07:52,862 --> 00:07:56,563\n或者是說我剛剛所提的你剛才有說到的財政收支的微分的部分大家都希望說不好的先維持下去但是錢要留下來這個部分財政收支劃分法如果針對我們行政區劃的處理的話它一定會有不同的想像\n\n23\n00:08:09,788 --> 00:08:36,674\n我們當然尊重以財政部為主的部分那再來地方制度就是剛剛所提的一般來講如果縣市要合併是地方縣市政府跟地方縣市議會兩個通過他們內部的一個程序如果同意以後可以報中央或是中央可以直接指定但是中央到目前為止通常沒有會直接指定因為這樣子不好沒有這個尊重民意但是地方要上來的時候呢這個四個地方縣市政府跟縣市議會意見就不一樣\n\n24\n00:08:39,375 --> 00:08:53,512\n如果四個地方的縣市的意見不一樣因為通常大的一定會零價小的多的一定會零價少的少的不同意多的一定同意然後小的不同意大的一定同意之類的\n\n25\n00:08:54,753 --> 00:09:15,318\n那這個我們就很難做決定所以通常都會卡住那這個跟這個不管是人的關係或者是生活圈的概念或者是財政的概念呢其實它是一個比較複雜的機制啦但是到目前為止呢雖然很多不管是在朝或在野的很多立委都提出來這樣子的一個爭議但是這個爭議呢對行政機關來講要把它收攏或者是一個有凝聚這個共識確實不容易\n\n26\n00:09:22,219 --> 00:09:34,645\n就好像說前兩年我們提出說行政區劃法乾脆就改成行政區劃程序法其實還沒有送到行政院就有人反對了所以我們也會碰到這方面的困擾柏庭在這本縣要跟你說很艱苦的事情我們也要去做在這個你剛才說的跟本縣所想的都一樣我們勿忙\n\n27\n00:09:43,909 --> 00:09:48,450\n花粉期的電池是更加發展、更加好、資源更加多不是花粉期的時候變成越增加越少、越沒有資源所以我們在這個花粉的時候,也非常重要我們希望中央把電池用心用好,是要讓電池沒有發展的\n\n28\n00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:13,358\n可以越發展交通越方便啦不要為了說跟越沒人愛比不愛同樣的議員在這裡跟吃肉的都被撞到那裡去這樣也不好所以我問補充能不能說本身自己探討的問題未來我們要怎麼做的時候一定要哪裏能夠合平均的啦不能差太多啦以上\n\n29\n00:10:40,353 --> 00:10:40,374\n哦\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4600\t10085\t這是我們這裡的補償 補償在這裡喔 在上禮拜 妳好 在上禮拜我們知道說 貴重的責任 去一個不應該自治的地方又有地方收到 去高興 但是我認為說補償做得很好\n29503\t32506\t你剛才說全部都是寒鬆的,不然在那裡擁護你,在那裡玩多久我覺得對你會越大,會越來越多因為我覺得一個地方,你要集會遊行或要做什麼,應該都要去申請\n53388\t62618\t國家有國家的法規啦 我覺得最近這半天來 我覺得大家想不去帶就不去帶像地檢署看了一輩子 還來 還派你們大小所以普天 我覺得說 你的\n72529\t77090\t做法我認為非常好,可以讓你更加健康所以在定禮拜拜時的時候,你的做法,我認為利用全部寒鬆的不過我的感覺是,你對於定禮拜時這樣做\n92415\t96799\t但是在這半年來 也有這樣的綜合 你是如何沒有看出這個全部來寒鬆來 補充你會的事情感謝委員的指導 我相信站在內政部的立場 就是支持我們的經濟事務他們針對這個一契遊行法裡面 會相關規定來辦理\n115658\t120761\t所以我今天也有針對這個部分就是說我們經濟署的經濟動力尤其在處理這種聚眾的部分他們要有那個修正有確實然後把所有的證據都收集齊全之後應該函送的或者應該傳喚的就按照集會遊行法的相關規定來辦理但是呢因為我站在一個這個就是\n142851\t148076\t督導那個警政的立場上面呢我就不針對個案來繼續發言因為他現在已經進入偵查的程序所以我覺得這樣子會比較好那過去好幾年當中呢我們在有關集會遊行的部分呢都有特別討論到禁制區\n158924\t179460\t這個禁制區除了說譬如說是我們的這個中央政府所在地的要塞之外那還有軍事要塞那同時呢我們希望增加的像包括像這個這個法院或者是這個醫院因為醫院有很多這種聚眾滋擾的事件我們認為的不適合因為醫院是一個看病的地方不是來吵架的地方\n180200\t209179\t那希望在禁制區裡面大家都能夠遵守那這個有遵守的話大家有這個遵守的規範的話呢那警方是站在雙方能夠平和來處理有關任何的爭議事件呢這是我們的初衷而不是為了要傳喚某人或是為了要做這個政治性上面的一個宣示我想這個都不是集會遊行法希望大家能夠本於原來的初衷把自己要表達的立場講得非常清楚之後但是就是要遵守集會遊行的規則\n210180\t215926\t因為保證在這裏 我覺得很好笑啦 一個收到沒去收這個款 又揮揮三尺沒這樣 給北省看出他的做法 我覺得他的年紀 實在很差勁\n231983\t236147\t所以在國家有國家的法律所以一定要有法律的人要讓他知道有法律的問題所以在這個規定當中我也覺得補充這個處理方法我覺得可以更多\n251175\t256619\t會比較好 不會對你說話會越來越嚴重 我覺得一個社會一直對你如果我們不講道理 互翻互補的時候 這個國家會害來 普通 剛才你說到 我們的行政化分化 你們一定\n272557\t276179\t日本的經濟嘛,在過去以來有八十一年到現在,尤其我們的大中共,也希望可以有這個做法,但是裡面的做法,有人提案\n288365\t291066\t裡面有稍微不講,稍微不講的時候,也要問補充,以我自己來講,我自己,我也不問我的資源,我的零考數,我的生活圈,我自己,如果說,我們一張臉\n309636\t316341\t追尋是不是可以未來加二次民用是不是可以未來加二次我也愿意這樣因為加二次在幾十年前跟新疆爬爬升級要不然我們中央的政府跟我們說你升級要不然在這裡你看不是跟法輪功升級就好了\n336255\t340078\t是長久以來 要怎麼阻止他 你看他年紀和身體又有差喔再來這個過程中 你的行政會看文化 也會牽涉到\n356937\t364300\t財政手法,這是都一樣在這裡的做法本身是要跟你說,這是非常大件事,不是說啊,青菜蓋蓋就好了每一項都要去了解去做,尤其是你認為本身說這樣\n380514\t394819\t如果問政府的時候,他不要說道啦,我自己買那些零銷售,可以主管那些,跟財政可以再分那些的時候,是不是可以來補充,你回答一下感謝委員的關心,委員本來就是自己非常認真發表的民意代表我也要向委員報告,行政區劃法,我們是希望可以可長可久啦\n408965\t413187\t不是因為今天這個地方有一個栗多,我每天都擠一擠在那裡,有栗差的話,大家都趕快遠離所以為什麼會碰到這個困難,就是說大家都想要好的,肥肉的部分,骨頭的部分,肌肉的部分就丟給別人\n428257\t445952\t但是呢 又希望好的部分留下來 譬如說我剛剛有提到我們不管是地方制度 或者是行政區的話在處理縣市合併的時候 大家都希望好的合併那上一次有人在提到 譬如說這個某一個縣市就是有很多科學園區的地方 要不要合併這最重要 現在科學園區的地方 大家都不會走出來\n450776\t471262\t對 但是這個部分跟行政區化的這個規劃比較沒有相關可是科學園區是會改變的所以我們很希望說它是大家一起來討論就是說這個公平的一個遊戲規則怎麼樣制定出來那可以看得出來在都會區的民意代表跟在非都會區的民意代表的想像是不一樣的\n472862\t476563\t或者是說我剛剛所提的你剛才有說到的財政收支的微分的部分大家都希望說不好的先維持下去但是錢要留下來這個部分財政收支劃分法如果針對我們行政區劃的處理的話它一定會有不同的想像\n489788\t516674\t我們當然尊重以財政部為主的部分那再來地方制度就是剛剛所提的一般來講如果縣市要合併是地方縣市政府跟地方縣市議會兩個通過他們內部的一個程序如果同意以後可以報中央或是中央可以直接指定但是中央到目前為止通常沒有會直接指定因為這樣子不好沒有這個尊重民意但是地方要上來的時候呢這個四個地方縣市政府跟縣市議會意見就不一樣\n519375\t533512\t如果四個地方的縣市的意見不一樣因為通常大的一定會零價小的多的一定會零價少的少的不同意多的一定同意然後小的不同意大的一定同意之類的\n534753\t555318\t那這個我們就很難做決定所以通常都會卡住那這個跟這個不管是人的關係或者是生活圈的概念或者是財政的概念呢其實它是一個比較複雜的機制啦但是到目前為止呢雖然很多不管是在朝或在野的很多立委都提出來這樣子的一個爭議但是這個爭議呢對行政機關來講要把它收攏或者是一個有凝聚這個共識確實不容易\n562219\t574645\t就好像說前兩年我們提出說行政區劃法乾脆就改成行政區劃程序法其實還沒有送到行政院就有人反對了所以我們也會碰到這方面的困擾柏庭在這本縣要跟你說很艱苦的事情我們也要去做在這個你剛才說的跟本縣所想的都一樣我們勿忙\n583909\t588450\t花粉期的電池是更加發展、更加好、資源更加多不是花粉期的時候變成越增加越少、越沒有資源所以我們在這個花粉的時候,也非常重要我們希望中央把電池用心用好,是要讓電池沒有發展的\n610276\t613358\t可以越發展 交通越方便啦不要為了說 跟越沒人愛 比不愛 同樣的議員在這裡跟吃肉的都被撞到那裡去 這樣也不好 所以我問補充 能不能說 本身自己探討的問題未來我們要怎麼做的時候 一定要哪裏 能夠合平均的啦 不能差太多啦 以上\n640353\t640374\t哦\n","txt":"這是我們這裡的補償 補償在這裡喔 在上禮拜 妳好 在上禮拜我們知道說 貴重的責任 去一個不應該自治的地方又有地方收到 去高興 但是我認為說補償做得很好\n你剛才說全部都是寒鬆的,不然在那裡擁護你,在那裡玩多久我覺得對你會越大,會越來越多因為我覺得一個地方,你要集會遊行或要做什麼,應該都要去申請\n國家有國家的法規啦 我覺得最近這半天來 我覺得大家想不去帶就不去帶像地檢署看了一輩子 還來 還派你們大小所以普天 我覺得說 你的\n做法我認為非常好,可以讓你更加健康所以在定禮拜拜時的時候,你的做法,我認為利用全部寒鬆的不過我的感覺是,你對於定禮拜時這樣做\n但是在這半年來 也有這樣的綜合 你是如何沒有看出這個全部來寒鬆來 補充你會的事情感謝委員的指導 我相信站在內政部的立場 就是支持我們的經濟事務他們針對這個一契遊行法裡面 會相關規定來辦理\n所以我今天也有針對這個部分就是說我們經濟署的經濟動力尤其在處理這種聚眾的部分他們要有那個修正有確實然後把所有的證據都收集齊全之後應該函送的或者應該傳喚的就按照集會遊行法的相關規定來辦理但是呢因為我站在一個這個就是\n督導那個警政的立場上面呢我就不針對個案來繼續發言因為他現在已經進入偵查的程序所以我覺得這樣子會比較好那過去好幾年當中呢我們在有關集會遊行的部分呢都有特別討論到禁制區\n這個禁制區除了說譬如說是我們的這個中央政府所在地的要塞之外那還有軍事要塞那同時呢我們希望增加的像包括像這個這個法院或者是這個醫院因為醫院有很多這種聚眾滋擾的事件我們認為的不適合因為醫院是一個看病的地方不是來吵架的地方\n那希望在禁制區裡面大家都能夠遵守那這個有遵守的話大家有這個遵守的規範的話呢那警方是站在雙方能夠平和來處理有關任何的爭議事件呢這是我們的初衷而不是為了要傳喚某人或是為了要做這個政治性上面的一個宣示我想這個都不是集會遊行法希望大家能夠本於原來的初衷把自己要表達的立場講得非常清楚之後但是就是要遵守集會遊行的規則\n因為保證在這裏 我覺得很好笑啦 一個收到沒去收這個款 又揮揮三尺沒這樣 給北省看出他的做法 我覺得他的年紀 實在很差勁\n所以在國家有國家的法律所以一定要有法律的人要讓他知道有法律的問題所以在這個規定當中我也覺得補充這個處理方法我覺得可以更多\n會比較好 不會對你說話會越來越嚴重 我覺得一個社會一直對你如果我們不講道理 互翻互補的時候 這個國家會害來 普通 剛才你說到 我們的行政化分化 你們一定\n日本的經濟嘛,在過去以來有八十一年到現在,尤其我們的大中共,也希望可以有這個做法,但是裡面的做法,有人提案\n裡面有稍微不講,稍微不講的時候,也要問補充,以我自己來講,我自己,我也不問我的資源,我的零考數,我的生活圈,我自己,如果說,我們一張臉\n追尋是不是可以未來加二次民用是不是可以未來加二次我也愿意這樣因為加二次在幾十年前跟新疆爬爬升級要不然我們中央的政府跟我們說你升級要不然在這裡你看不是跟法輪功升級就好了\n是長久以來 要怎麼阻止他 你看他年紀和身體又有差喔再來這個過程中 你的行政會看文化 也會牽涉到\n財政手法,這是都一樣在這裡的做法本身是要跟你說,這是非常大件事,不是說啊,青菜蓋蓋就好了每一項都要去了解去做,尤其是你認為本身說這樣\n如果問政府的時候,他不要說道啦,我自己買那些零銷售,可以主管那些,跟財政可以再分那些的時候,是不是可以來補充,你回答一下感謝委員的關心,委員本來就是自己非常認真發表的民意代表我也要向委員報告,行政區劃法,我們是希望可以可長可久啦\n不是因為今天這個地方有一個栗多,我每天都擠一擠在那裡,有栗差的話,大家都趕快遠離所以為什麼會碰到這個困難,就是說大家都想要好的,肥肉的部分,骨頭的部分,肌肉的部分就丟給別人\n但是呢 又希望好的部分留下來 譬如說我剛剛有提到我們不管是地方制度 或者是行政區的話在處理縣市合併的時候 大家都希望好的合併那上一次有人在提到 譬如說這個某一個縣市就是有很多科學園區的地方 要不要合併這最重要 現在科學園區的地方 大家都不會走出來\n對 但是這個部分跟行政區化的這個規劃比較沒有相關可是科學園區是會改變的所以我們很希望說它是大家一起來討論就是說這個公平的一個遊戲規則怎麼樣制定出來那可以看得出來在都會區的民意代表跟在非都會區的民意代表的想像是不一樣的\n或者是說我剛剛所提的你剛才有說到的財政收支的微分的部分大家都希望說不好的先維持下去但是錢要留下來這個部分財政收支劃分法如果針對我們行政區劃的處理的話它一定會有不同的想像\n我們當然尊重以財政部為主的部分那再來地方制度就是剛剛所提的一般來講如果縣市要合併是地方縣市政府跟地方縣市議會兩個通過他們內部的一個程序如果同意以後可以報中央或是中央可以直接指定但是中央到目前為止通常沒有會直接指定因為這樣子不好沒有這個尊重民意但是地方要上來的時候呢這個四個地方縣市政府跟縣市議會意見就不一樣\n如果四個地方的縣市的意見不一樣因為通常大的一定會零價小的多的一定會零價少的少的不同意多的一定同意然後小的不同意大的一定同意之類的\n那這個我們就很難做決定所以通常都會卡住那這個跟這個不管是人的關係或者是生活圈的概念或者是財政的概念呢其實它是一個比較複雜的機制啦但是到目前為止呢雖然很多不管是在朝或在野的很多立委都提出來這樣子的一個爭議但是這個爭議呢對行政機關來講要把它收攏或者是一個有凝聚這個共識確實不容易\n就好像說前兩年我們提出說行政區劃法乾脆就改成行政區劃程序法其實還沒有送到行政院就有人反對了所以我們也會碰到這方面的困擾柏庭在這本縣要跟你說很艱苦的事情我們也要去做在這個你剛才說的跟本縣所想的都一樣我們勿忙\n花粉期的電池是更加發展、更加好、資源更加多不是花粉期的時候變成越增加越少、越沒有資源所以我們在這個花粉的時候,也非常重要我們希望中央把電池用心用好,是要讓電池沒有發展的\n可以越發展 交通越方便啦不要為了說 跟越沒人愛 比不愛 同樣的議員在這裡跟吃肉的都被撞到那裡去 這樣也不好 所以我問補充 能不能說 本身自己探討的問題未來我們要怎麼做的時候 一定要哪裏 能夠合平均的啦 不能差太多啦 以上\n哦\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.600 --> 00:10.085\n這是我們這裡的補償補償在這裡喔在上禮拜妳好在上禮拜我們知道說貴重的責任去一個不應該自治的地方又有地方收到去高興但是我認為說補償做得很好\n\n00:29.503 --> 00:32.506\n你剛才說全部都是寒鬆的,不然在那裡擁護你,在那裡玩多久我覺得對你會越大,會越來越多因為我覺得一個地方,你要集會遊行或要做什麼,應該都要去申請\n\n00:53.388 --> 01:02.618\n國家有國家的法規啦我覺得最近這半天來我覺得大家想不去帶就不去帶像地檢署看了一輩子還來還派你們大小所以普天我覺得說你的\n\n01:12.529 --> 01:17.090\n做法我認為非常好,可以讓你更加健康所以在定禮拜拜時的時候,你的做法,我認為利用全部寒鬆的不過我的感覺是,你對於定禮拜時這樣做\n\n01:32.415 --> 01:36.799\n但是在這半年來也有這樣的綜合你是如何沒有看出這個全部來寒鬆來補充你會的事情感謝委員的指導我相信站在內政部的立場就是支持我們的經濟事務他們針對這個一契遊行法裡面會相關規定來辦理\n\n01:55.658 --> 02:00.761\n所以我今天也有針對這個部分就是說我們經濟署的經濟動力尤其在處理這種聚眾的部分他們要有那個修正有確實然後把所有的證據都收集齊全之後應該函送的或者應該傳喚的就按照集會遊行法的相關規定來辦理但是呢因為我站在一個這個就是\n\n02:22.851 --> 02:28.076\n督導那個警政的立場上面呢我就不針對個案來繼續發言因為他現在已經進入偵查的程序所以我覺得這樣子會比較好那過去好幾年當中呢我們在有關集會遊行的部分呢都有特別討論到禁制區\n\n02:38.924 --> 02:59.460\n這個禁制區除了說譬如說是我們的這個中央政府所在地的要塞之外那還有軍事要塞那同時呢我們希望增加的像包括像這個這個法院或者是這個醫院因為醫院有很多這種聚眾滋擾的事件我們認為的不適合因為醫院是一個看病的地方不是來吵架的地方\n\n03:00.200 --> 03:29.179\n那希望在禁制區裡面大家都能夠遵守那這個有遵守的話大家有這個遵守的規範的話呢那警方是站在雙方能夠平和來處理有關任何的爭議事件呢這是我們的初衷而不是為了要傳喚某人或是為了要做這個政治性上面的一個宣示我想這個都不是集會遊行法希望大家能夠本於原來的初衷把自己要表達的立場講得非常清楚之後但是就是要遵守集會遊行的規則\n\n03:30.180 --> 03:35.926\n因為保證在這裏我覺得很好笑啦一個收到沒去收這個款又揮揮三尺沒這樣給北省看出他的做法我覺得他的年紀實在很差勁\n\n03:51.983 --> 03:56.147\n所以在國家有國家的法律所以一定要有法律的人要讓他知道有法律的問題所以在這個規定當中我也覺得補充這個處理方法我覺得可以更多\n\n04:11.175 --> 04:16.619\n會比較好不會對你說話會越來越嚴重我覺得一個社會一直對你如果我們不講道理互翻互補的時候這個國家會害來普通剛才你說到我們的行政化分化你們一定\n\n04:32.557 --> 04:36.179\n日本的經濟嘛,在過去以來有八十一年到現在,尤其我們的大中共,也希望可以有這個做法,但是裡面的做法,有人提案\n\n04:48.365 --> 04:51.066\n裡面有稍微不講,稍微不講的時候,也要問補充,以我自己來講,我自己,我也不問我的資源,我的零考數,我的生活圈,我自己,如果說,我們一張臉\n\n05:09.636 --> 05:16.341\n追尋是不是可以未來加二次民用是不是可以未來加二次我也愿意這樣因為加二次在幾十年前跟新疆爬爬升級要不然我們中央的政府跟我們說你升級要不然在這裡你看不是跟法輪功升級就好了\n\n05:36.255 --> 05:40.078\n是長久以來要怎麼阻止他你看他年紀和身體又有差喔再來這個過程中你的行政會看文化也會牽涉到\n\n05:56.937 --> 06:04.300\n財政手法,這是都一樣在這裡的做法本身是要跟你說,這是非常大件事,不是說啊,青菜蓋蓋就好了每一項都要去了解去做,尤其是你認為本身說這樣\n\n06:20.514 --> 06:34.819\n如果問政府的時候,他不要說道啦,我自己買那些零銷售,可以主管那些,跟財政可以再分那些的時候,是不是可以來補充,你回答一下感謝委員的關心,委員本來就是自己非常認真發表的民意代表我也要向委員報告,行政區劃法,我們是希望可以可長可久啦\n\n06:48.965 --> 06:53.187\n不是因為今天這個地方有一個栗多,我每天都擠一擠在那裡,有栗差的話,大家都趕快遠離所以為什麼會碰到這個困難,就是說大家都想要好的,肥肉的部分,骨頭的部分,肌肉的部分就丟給別人\n\n07:08.257 --> 07:25.952\n但是呢又希望好的部分留下來譬如說我剛剛有提到我們不管是地方制度或者是行政區的話在處理縣市合併的時候大家都希望好的合併那上一次有人在提到譬如說這個某一個縣市就是有很多科學園區的地方要不要合併這最重要現在科學園區的地方大家都不會走出來\n\n07:30.776 --> 07:51.262\n對但是這個部分跟行政區化的這個規劃比較沒有相關可是科學園區是會改變的所以我們很希望說它是大家一起來討論就是說這個公平的一個遊戲規則怎麼樣制定出來那可以看得出來在都會區的民意代表跟在非都會區的民意代表的想像是不一樣的\n\n07:52.862 --> 07:56.563\n或者是說我剛剛所提的你剛才有說到的財政收支的微分的部分大家都希望說不好的先維持下去但是錢要留下來這個部分財政收支劃分法如果針對我們行政區劃的處理的話它一定會有不同的想像\n\n08:09.788 --> 08:36.674\n我們當然尊重以財政部為主的部分那再來地方制度就是剛剛所提的一般來講如果縣市要合併是地方縣市政府跟地方縣市議會兩個通過他們內部的一個程序如果同意以後可以報中央或是中央可以直接指定但是中央到目前為止通常沒有會直接指定因為這樣子不好沒有這個尊重民意但是地方要上來的時候呢這個四個地方縣市政府跟縣市議會意見就不一樣\n\n08:39.375 --> 08:53.512\n如果四個地方的縣市的意見不一樣因為通常大的一定會零價小的多的一定會零價少的少的不同意多的一定同意然後小的不同意大的一定同意之類的\n\n08:54.753 --> 09:15.318\n那這個我們就很難做決定所以通常都會卡住那這個跟這個不管是人的關係或者是生活圈的概念或者是財政的概念呢其實它是一個比較複雜的機制啦但是到目前為止呢雖然很多不管是在朝或在野的很多立委都提出來這樣子的一個爭議但是這個爭議呢對行政機關來講要把它收攏或者是一個有凝聚這個共識確實不容易\n\n09:22.219 --> 09:34.645\n就好像說前兩年我們提出說行政區劃法乾脆就改成行政區劃程序法其實還沒有送到行政院就有人反對了所以我們也會碰到這方面的困擾柏庭在這本縣要跟你說很艱苦的事情我們也要去做在這個你剛才說的跟本縣所想的都一樣我們勿忙\n\n09:43.909 --> 09:48.450\n花粉期的電池是更加發展、更加好、資源更加多不是花粉期的時候變成越增加越少、越沒有資源所以我們在這個花粉的時候,也非常重要我們希望中央把電池用心用好,是要讓電池沒有發展的\n\n10:10.276 --> 10:13.358\n可以越發展交通越方便啦不要為了說跟越沒人愛比不愛同樣的議員在這裡跟吃肉的都被撞到那裡去這樣也不好所以我問補充能不能說本身自己探討的問題未來我們要怎麼做的時候一定要哪裏能夠合平均的啦不能差太多啦以上\n\n10:40.353 --> 10:40.374\n哦\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.6,"end":10.085,"text":"這是我們這裡的補償 補償在這裡喔 在上禮拜 妳好 在上禮拜我們知道說 貴重的責任 去一個不應該自治的地方又有地方收到 去高興 但是我認為說補償做得很好"},{"start":29.503,"end":32.506,"text":"你剛才說全部都是寒鬆的,不然在那裡擁護你,在那裡玩多久我覺得對你會越大,會越來越多因為我覺得一個地方,你要集會遊行或要做什麼,應該都要去申請"},{"start":53.388,"end":62.618,"text":"國家有國家的法規啦 我覺得最近這半天來 我覺得大家想不去帶就不去帶像地檢署看了一輩子 還來 還派你們大小所以普天 我覺得說 你的"},{"start":72.529,"end":77.09,"text":"做法我認為非常好,可以讓你更加健康所以在定禮拜拜時的時候,你的做法,我認為利用全部寒鬆的不過我的感覺是,你對於定禮拜時這樣做"},{"start":92.415,"end":96.799,"text":"但是在這半年來 也有這樣的綜合 你是如何沒有看出這個全部來寒鬆來 補充你會的事情感謝委員的指導 我相信站在內政部的立場 就是支持我們的經濟事務他們針對這個一契遊行法裡面 會相關規定來辦理"},{"start":115.658,"end":120.761,"text":"所以我今天也有針對這個部分就是說我們經濟署的經濟動力尤其在處理這種聚眾的部分他們要有那個修正有確實然後把所有的證據都收集齊全之後應該函送的或者應該傳喚的就按照集會遊行法的相關規定來辦理但是呢因為我站在一個這個就是"},{"start":142.851,"end":148.076,"text":"督導那個警政的立場上面呢我就不針對個案來繼續發言因為他現在已經進入偵查的程序所以我覺得這樣子會比較好那過去好幾年當中呢我們在有關集會遊行的部分呢都有特別討論到禁制區"},{"start":158.924,"end":179.46,"text":"這個禁制區除了說譬如說是我們的這個中央政府所在地的要塞之外那還有軍事要塞那同時呢我們希望增加的像包括像這個這個法院或者是這個醫院因為醫院有很多這種聚眾滋擾的事件我們認為的不適合因為醫院是一個看病的地方不是來吵架的地方"},{"start":180.2,"end":209.179,"text":"那希望在禁制區裡面大家都能夠遵守那這個有遵守的話大家有這個遵守的規範的話呢那警方是站在雙方能夠平和來處理有關任何的爭議事件呢這是我們的初衷而不是為了要傳喚某人或是為了要做這個政治性上面的一個宣示我想這個都不是集會遊行法希望大家能夠本於原來的初衷把自己要表達的立場講得非常清楚之後但是就是要遵守集會遊行的規則"},{"start":210.18,"end":215.926,"text":"因為保證在這裏 我覺得很好笑啦 一個收到沒去收這個款 又揮揮三尺沒這樣 給北省看出他的做法 我覺得他的年紀 實在很差勁"},{"start":231.983,"end":236.147,"text":"所以在國家有國家的法律所以一定要有法律的人要讓他知道有法律的問題所以在這個規定當中我也覺得補充這個處理方法我覺得可以更多"},{"start":251.175,"end":256.619,"text":"會比較好 不會對你說話會越來越嚴重 我覺得一個社會一直對你如果我們不講道理 互翻互補的時候 這個國家會害來 普通 剛才你說到 我們的行政化分化 你們一定"},{"start":272.557,"end":276.179,"text":"日本的經濟嘛,在過去以來有八十一年到現在,尤其我們的大中共,也希望可以有這個做法,但是裡面的做法,有人提案"},{"start":288.365,"end":291.066,"text":"裡面有稍微不講,稍微不講的時候,也要問補充,以我自己來講,我自己,我也不問我的資源,我的零考數,我的生活圈,我自己,如果說,我們一張臉"},{"start":309.636,"end":316.341,"text":"追尋是不是可以未來加二次民用是不是可以未來加二次我也愿意這樣因為加二次在幾十年前跟新疆爬爬升級要不然我們中央的政府跟我們說你升級要不然在這裡你看不是跟法輪功升級就好了"},{"start":336.255,"end":340.078,"text":"是長久以來 要怎麼阻止他 你看他年紀和身體又有差喔再來這個過程中 你的行政會看文化 也會牽涉到"},{"start":356.937,"end":364.3,"text":"財政手法,這是都一樣在這裡的做法本身是要跟你說,這是非常大件事,不是說啊,青菜蓋蓋就好了每一項都要去了解去做,尤其是你認為本身說這樣"},{"start":380.514,"end":394.819,"text":"如果問政府的時候,他不要說道啦,我自己買那些零銷售,可以主管那些,跟財政可以再分那些的時候,是不是可以來補充,你回答一下感謝委員的關心,委員本來就是自己非常認真發表的民意代表我也要向委員報告,行政區劃法,我們是希望可以可長可久啦"},{"start":408.965,"end":413.187,"text":"不是因為今天這個地方有一個栗多,我每天都擠一擠在那裡,有栗差的話,大家都趕快遠離所以為什麼會碰到這個困難,就是說大家都想要好的,肥肉的部分,骨頭的部分,肌肉的部分就丟給別人"},{"start":428.257,"end":445.952,"text":"但是呢 又希望好的部分留下來 譬如說我剛剛有提到我們不管是地方制度 或者是行政區的話在處理縣市合併的時候 大家都希望好的合併那上一次有人在提到 譬如說這個某一個縣市就是有很多科學園區的地方 要不要合併這最重要 現在科學園區的地方 大家都不會走出來"},{"start":450.776,"end":471.262,"text":"對 但是這個部分跟行政區化的這個規劃比較沒有相關可是科學園區是會改變的所以我們很希望說它是大家一起來討論就是說這個公平的一個遊戲規則怎麼樣制定出來那可以看得出來在都會區的民意代表跟在非都會區的民意代表的想像是不一樣的"},{"start":472.862,"end":476.563,"text":"或者是說我剛剛所提的你剛才有說到的財政收支的微分的部分大家都希望說不好的先維持下去但是錢要留下來這個部分財政收支劃分法如果針對我們行政區劃的處理的話它一定會有不同的想像"},{"start":489.788,"end":516.674,"text":"我們當然尊重以財政部為主的部分那再來地方制度就是剛剛所提的一般來講如果縣市要合併是地方縣市政府跟地方縣市議會兩個通過他們內部的一個程序如果同意以後可以報中央或是中央可以直接指定但是中央到目前為止通常沒有會直接指定因為這樣子不好沒有這個尊重民意但是地方要上來的時候呢這個四個地方縣市政府跟縣市議會意見就不一樣"},{"start":519.375,"end":533.512,"text":"如果四個地方的縣市的意見不一樣因為通常大的一定會零價小的多的一定會零價少的少的不同意多的一定同意然後小的不同意大的一定同意之類的"},{"start":534.753,"end":555.318,"text":"那這個我們就很難做決定所以通常都會卡住那這個跟這個不管是人的關係或者是生活圈的概念或者是財政的概念呢其實它是一個比較複雜的機制啦但是到目前為止呢雖然很多不管是在朝或在野的很多立委都提出來這樣子的一個爭議但是這個爭議呢對行政機關來講要把它收攏或者是一個有凝聚這個共識確實不容易"},{"start":562.219,"end":574.645,"text":"就好像說前兩年我們提出說行政區劃法乾脆就改成行政區劃程序法其實還沒有送到行政院就有人反對了所以我們也會碰到這方面的困擾柏庭在這本縣要跟你說很艱苦的事情我們也要去做在這個你剛才說的跟本縣所想的都一樣我們勿忙"},{"start":583.909,"end":588.45,"text":"花粉期的電池是更加發展、更加好、資源更加多不是花粉期的時候變成越增加越少、越沒有資源所以我們在這個花粉的時候,也非常重要我們希望中央把電池用心用好,是要讓電池沒有發展的"},{"start":610.276,"end":613.358,"text":"可以越發展 交通越方便啦不要為了說 跟越沒人愛 比不愛 同樣的議員在這裡跟吃肉的都被撞到那裡去 這樣也不好 所以我問補充 能不能說 本身自己探討的問題未來我們要怎麼做的時候 一定要哪裏 能夠合平均的啦 不能差太多啦 以上"},{"start":640.353,"end":640.374,"text":"哦"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":376,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（9時40分）主席，我們請部長。"],["主席（牛委員煦庭）：請劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：部長你好。在上禮拜我們知道有非常多人去一個不應該聚集的地方，又有地方首長去到那裡，不過我覺得部長做得很好，你就全部都用函送的，不然如果在那裡用武力，在那裡「冤家量債」（爭吵不休），我覺得對立會越大，會「烏白講的」越來越多。我認為你要在一個地方集會遊行也好，要做什麼應該都要去申請，國家有國家的法規，我覺得最近這半年來，大家想去哪裡就去哪裡，像地檢署喊一聲就去，根本就是「教歹囡仔大細」（教壞小孩子）。所以，部長，你的做法我覺得非常的好，可以讓對立降低，所以在上禮拜四的時候，你的做法，我覺得你用全部函送的，不過我的感覺是說你在上禮拜四這樣做，不過在這半年來也有這樣的狀況，你為什麼沒有將其全部函送？來，部長，你回答一下。"],["劉部長世芳：感謝委員的指導，站在內政部的立場，就是支持我們警政署根據集會遊行法的相關規定來辦理，所以我今天也有針對這個部分，指示警政署的警察同仁，尤其在處理這種聚眾的部分要蒐證確實，把所有的證據都蒐集齊全之後，應該函送的或者應該傳喚的，就按照集會遊行法的相關規定來辦理。但是站在督導警政的立場上面，我就不針對個案繼續發言，因為現在已經進入偵查程序，我覺得這樣子會比較好。","過去好幾年我們在討論有關集會遊行的議題時，都有特別討論到禁制區，禁制區除了譬如中央政府所在地的要塞之外，還有軍事要塞，同時我們希望增加的包括像法院或者是醫院。因為醫院有很多聚眾滋擾的事件，我們認為那樣不適合，畢竟醫院是一個看病的地方，不是來吵架的地方，希望在禁制區裡面，大家都能夠遵守相關的規範。警方的立場是希望雙方能夠平和地處理任何爭議事件，這是我們的初衷，而不是為了要傳喚某人，或是為了要做政治性的宣示，我想這個都不是集會遊行法希望大家能夠本於原來的初衷，把自己要表達的立場講得非常清楚，但是就是要遵守集會遊行的規則。"],["王委員美惠：部長，我覺得很好笑，一個首長不但不守法還「為非糝做」（為非作歹、胡作非為），讓百姓看出他的做法，我覺得他的人格實在很差勁。國家有國家的法，所以一定要讓違法的人知道他自己違法的問題，在這個過程當中，我也覺得部長這個處理方法可以讓傷害較少，不然說實在的，對立會越來越嚴重。我覺得一個社會如果一直對立下去，我們如果不講道理，「烏白翻、烏白舞」（胡搞瞎搞）的時候，這個國家「會害啦」（會完蛋）。","部長，剛剛你有講到行政區劃法，你們已經有6次的經驗，又長久以來從81年到現在，尤其我們賴總統也希望可以有這個做法，不過講到其中的做法，有的人提的案裡面有稍微不同。稍微不同的部分，我也要問部長，以我嘉義市來講，嘉義市也希望我的資源那麼多，我的人口數那麼多，來我們嘉義市生活圈的那麼多，例如像只有一牆之隔的水上是不是可以劃入嘉義市？民雄是不是可以劃入嘉義市？我也希望這樣。","嘉義市在幾十年前跟新竹同時升格為省轄市，中央政府只有說你們升格，但是這件事不是喊兩句升格就好了，而是要考慮長久的資源分配，你看嘉義市跟新竹市就有差別了。再來這個過程當中，你的行政區劃法也會牽涉到財政收支劃分法，這個都是一樣的做法，本席是要跟你說，這是非常重大的一件事，不是隨便改一改就好了，每一項都要去了解、去做。尤其嘉義市，你認為本席說這樣，如果問地方政府，如果不用公投，我們嘉義市那麼多人口數，是不是可以給我們更多的資源，財政收入可以再分更多？來，部長，你回答一下。"],["劉部長世芳：感謝委員的關心，委員本來就是嘉義市非常認真努力的民意代表，我也要跟委員報告，我們希望行政區劃法可長可久，不是因為今天這個地方有一個利多，我們大家就都擠到那裡；有不利的話，大家就都趕快遠離。為什麼會碰到這個困難？就是大家都想要好的，肥肉的部分、骨頭或是雞肋的部分就丟給別人，但是又希望好的部分留下來。譬如我剛剛有提到，不管是地方制度或者是行政區劃，在處理縣市合併的時候，大家都希望好的合併。上一次有人提到譬如說某一個縣市，就是有很多科學園區的地方要不要合併，那……"],["王委員美惠：喔，這最重要，現在科學園區的地方大家都要爭取的。"],["劉部長世芳：對，但是這個部分跟行政區劃的規劃比較沒有相關，可是科學園區是會改變的，所以我們很希望大家一起來討論，怎麼樣制定出一個公平的遊戲規則。可以看得出來，都會區的民意代表跟非都會區的民意代表的想像是不一樣的，或者是我剛剛所提的，你剛才講到的財政收支劃分的部分，大家都希望不好的先劃出去，但是錢要留下來，財政收支劃分法如果針對行政區劃去做處理的話，它一定會有不同的想像，這個部分我們當然尊重，以財政部為主。","再來地方制度，就是剛剛所提的，一般來講如果縣市要合併，是地方縣市政府跟地方縣市議會各自通過他們內部的程序，如果同意以後可以報中央，或是中央可以直接指定。但是中央到目前為止通常不會直接指定，因為這樣子不好，沒有尊重民意，但是地方要上來的時候，這四個機關——縣市政府跟縣市議會，意見就不一樣……"],["王委員美惠：對，這個關係很重大。"],["劉部長世芳：如果四個機關的意見不一樣，因為通常大的一定會凌駕小的，多的一定會凌駕少的，少的不同意，多的一定同意，然後小的不同意，大的一定同意之類的，這個我們就很難做決定，所以通常都會卡住。","這個跟不管是人的關係，或者是生活圈的概念，或者是財政的概念，其實它是一個比較複雜的機制，但是到目前為止，雖然不管是在朝或在野的很多立委都提出這樣的爭議，但是這個爭議，對於行政機關來講，要把它收攏或者是凝聚共識確實不容易。就好像前兩年我們提出說，行政區劃法乾脆就改成行政區劃程序法，其實還沒有送到行政院就有人反對了，所以我們也會碰到這方面的困擾。"],["王委員美惠：部長，在這裡本席要跟你說，再辛苦的事情我們也要去做。你剛剛講的跟本席所想的都一樣，我們期望行政區劃可以讓地方更發達、更好、資源更多，不是劃分以後變成越鄉下的地方越糟、越沒有資源。所以我們在劃分的時候也非常重要，我們希望中央跟地方用心良苦是要讓地方比較沒有發展的可以更有發展、交通更方便，不要劃分到最後更沒人要，肥肉一樣還是在這裡，瘦肉剛好被人家撿走，這樣也不好，所以希望部長對於本席跟你探討的問題，未來我們要怎麼去做的時候，一定要納入考量，讓它比較平均，不能差太多啦！以上。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員，下一位我們請李柏毅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-12","speakers":["牛煦庭","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","許宇甄","吳琪銘","高金素梅","廖先翔","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃建賓","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「行政區劃法草案」案；二、審查委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「行政\n區劃法草案」案【僅詢答及宣讀提案條文】","agenda_id":"1144001_00001"}}}