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請財政部說明一下因為我乍看之下光是說因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額嘛那如果直轄市的分配額就例如說現在我一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 381.468, \"end\": 381.628, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 381.628, \"end\": 381.728, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 381.728, \"end\": 381.868, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 381.868, \"end\": 382.108, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 382.108, \"end\": 382.288, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 382.288, \"end\": 382.528, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 382.528, \"end\": 382.668, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 382.668, \"end\": 382.688, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 382.688, \"end\": 382.708, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 382.708, \"end\": 382.808, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 382.808, \"end\": 382.828, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 486.959, \"end\": 487.079, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 487.079, \"end\": 487.439, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"攏\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 487.439, \"end\": 487.579, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 487.579, \"end\": 487.74, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 487.74, \"end\": 487.86, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 487.86, \"end\": 488.481, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 488.481, \"end\": 488.501, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,455 --> 00:00:07,322\n好謝謝主席我們先請部長\n\n2\n00:00:08,297 --> 00:00:36,266\n劉部長有請部長想先跟您請教上禮拜國民黨的黨主席朱立倫率領國民黨的立委跟議員到了集會遊行的禁制區去抗議那我不知道說當然部長非常有魄力第一時間就是有用這個急優法說如果都有進到禁制區包括朱立倫主席謝龍介以及他們的發言人楊志宇等等要直接移送法辦\n\n3\n00:00:36,986 --> 00:00:39,969\n那我想問喔因為其實在場還有其他的人包括徐巧欣等等他們把這個鐵馬護欄都推倒了那請問這樣有違反什麼樣的法律嗎報告委員這樣的部分的話我們請這個警政同仁在現場因為他們有收證我們根據收證的事實的話呢就按照相關的規定來辦理\n\n4\n00:00:59,227 --> 00:01:23,678\n那當然您剛所提到的部分就是說因為他們在到這個北檢前面去做抗議的時候呢本來就是由國民黨的黨主席發動的那再來就是他的發言人也在現場所以我們台北市警局在回應台北市議會的很多質詢的時候有特別提到這三位可能把它列為是守謀或者是他的發起活動的代言人\n\n5\n00:01:24,918 --> 00:01:38,003\n好謝謝部長說明那當然如果有違反這個社委法或是其他違反極有法的人士我也都希望這個警政署可以依法來辦理那我也要在這邊要聲援當天包括四茶貓到現場可是其實警察在現場並沒有去協助維持民眾的人身安全那甚至他被暴力對待被用瓶子這樣子丟然後甚至是被打\n\n6\n00:01:52,048 --> 00:02:06,499\n都沒有警察出手相助那這個畫面也看得非常多民眾覺得很心疼就是你一個集會最重要的警察在現場最重要工作就是維持所有民眾的人身安全不要讓這樣的衝突加劇可是我看到的是警察在現場放任這樣的行為不斷的發生甚至讓民眾的情緒越來越高漲\n\n7\n00:02:15,245 --> 00:02:34,776\n最後這個暴民衝上去然後攻擊一個無辜的民眾那我不希望接下來還有這樣的事情發生所以我要在這邊拜託部長拜託警政署接下來一定要務必讓所有的民眾都是安全的好嗎是報告委員這件事情包括您在內有多位委員來質詢所以我們有從旁來協助這位網紅他如果有需要提告的話那我們按照相關規定來辦理\n\n8\n00:02:43,061 --> 00:03:01,341\n好謝謝部長說明那再來進到今天這個行政區劃法這行政區劃法我大致看了一下其實覺得牽涉的層面真的非常廣非常非常的複雜包括剛剛其實博弈委員提到你光是一個行政區你前面他的行政區改了一個名字就例如說啦\n\n9\n00:03:02,822 --> 00:03:23,847\n萬華區改中正區中正區改萬華區就好了哇這個地價房價可能就差很多然後再來如果你改了一個住址下去可能你的身份證要改你的交通的節點所有的資訊全部都要改所有的資料這裡的路名什麼的全部都要改那這個可能都是\n\n10\n00:03:24,967 --> 00:03:42,329\n這是幾大的事情一改下去大家都要重新的調整那這個也需要非常大的一筆經費那再來就是如果到時候選區重新劃分然後土地面積人口都有重新切割的話那可能在座的民代可能席次也會受影響\n\n11\n00:03:42,910 --> 00:03:56,520\n立委啦議員啦然後包括當地的村里長等等是不是之後的席次也都要重新調整這個也必須要來考慮那再來我覺得最重要的還是如果接下來包括其實剛剛我們主席有提到的這個回籠到底要不要併台北的問題這個其實應該也要跟我們地方縣政府討論過吧那剛剛我不知道部長是說前年的時候是已經都有跟各縣市政府討論過一輪了是嗎\n\n12\n00:04:12,961 --> 00:04:37,351\n好基本上是討論制度上的問題而不是個案的討論OK所以就是還沒有進到說要意願要或不要而是說這個授權到底要不要給出去是這樣子嗎是基本上的討論還是在制度上的討論對那我好奇的是說那大家有沒有共識覺得說要不要先把這個程序法的授權先給出來\n\n13\n00:04:39,093 --> 00:04:53,784\n到底誰來決定然後要不要開始進行這個討論了大家各縣市現在的共識如何我還蠻好奇的就是大家如果有共識那我們來討論我覺得都很正面看待可是我不知道現在各縣市的態度到底如何\n\n14\n00:04:54,164 --> 00:05:08,492\n因為像我自己在高雄市我也還不知道說我們高雄市其實包括我們市長或是其他的其他的立委的意見議員的意見然後里長大家的意見如何這個是不是還需要再收攏還是說你們其實有共識\n\n15\n00:05:10,677 --> 00:05:33,321\n在一般各種不同區域的調整的這個部分包含這個不同跨縣市之間的或直轄市的改制當然有很多不同的意見那事實上在地方制度法裡面是有規定說直轄市改制之後的區域必須做一些調整剛剛也有一些委員有提到\n\n16\n00:05:33,801 --> 00:05:49,751\n但是因為這個整個的調整的一個範圍包含小到區大到可能跨這個縣市之下等等有涉及到不同的一個法律的層面所以討論商要收攏的確要花一些時間來做討論\n\n17\n00:05:51,308 --> 00:06:20,928\n好謝謝對啊因為聽起來真的是牽涉層面太廣了所以我剛剛光是我提的這幾個問題接下來如果要討論可能一項一項都要來細緻的討論那當然我覺得在此之前可以先做的是資源的分配啦因為這個行政區劃法很多縣市的目的也都是希望說接下來的生活圈可以讓同一個生活圈可以一致然後使用同樣的資源大家的資源分配下去是平均的但是我認為在此之前其實才劃法就可以做啦\n\n18\n00:06:21,468 --> 00:06:29,430\n那只是因為現在新的財劃法上路之後我不知道說財劃法上路之後會不會跟這個行政區劃法接下來有漢格或是衝突的地方好請財政部說明一下因為我乍看之下光是說因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額嘛那如果直轄市的分配額就例如說現在我一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了\n\n19\n00:06:47,284 --> 00:07:06,736\n那會不會反而因為財劃法的關係讓新的行政區劃法被撥出去之後反而享受不到原本的資源我擔心的是這個是跟我們報告那行政區劃法的這個如果他的這個計劃施行之後那在這個財政收支劃分的部分必須要配合來做檢討\n\n20\n00:07:09,712 --> 00:07:33,898\n對所以因為我們才剛修完才化法那當然我沒有很認同原本的現在的版本只是說如果到時候我們要來處理行政區劃法才化法還要再重修對不對必須要重新再檢討調整是的所以其實我看下去有非常多部法律必須要同時重新討論包括地方制度法跟我們行政區劃法到底有沒有衝突的地方然後包括才化法\n\n21\n00:07:34,338 --> 00:07:57,197\n是不是也要搭配着调整那这是一个非常大非常多部法律必须要同时来检讨的一件事情所以我希望如果接下来要讨论可以那是不是也可以委请交委再多办几场公听会然后我们再把地方县市都邀来大家再把一件事情一件事情细细的讨论之后那寻求一个共识再上路\n\n22\n00:07:58,988 --> 00:08:08,501\n好那這個就是相信大家應該都希望可以朝這個方向啦那希望這個部長接下來也持續的收攏地方的意見好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5455\t7322\t好 謝謝主席 我們先請部長\n8297\t36266\t劉部長有請部長想先跟您請教上禮拜國民黨的黨主席朱立倫率領國民黨的立委跟議員到了集會遊行的禁制區去抗議那我不知道說當然部長非常有魄力第一時間就是有用這個急優法說如果都有進到禁制區包括朱立倫主席謝龍介以及他們的發言人楊志宇等等要直接移送法辦\n36986\t39969\t那我想問喔 因為其實在場還有其他的人 包括徐巧欣等等 他們把這個鐵馬護欄都推倒了那請問這樣有違反什麼樣的法律嗎報告委員 這樣的部分的話 我們請這個警政同仁在現場 因為他們有收證我們根據收證的事實的話呢 就按照相關的規定來辦理\n59227\t83678\t那當然您剛所提到的部分就是說因為他們在到這個北檢前面去做抗議的時候呢本來就是由國民黨的黨主席發動的那再來就是他的發言人也在現場所以我們台北市警局在回應台北市議會的很多質詢的時候有特別提到這三位可能把它列為是守謀或者是他的發起活動的代言人\n84918\t98003\t好 謝謝部長說明那當然如果有違反這個社委法或是其他違反極有法的人士我也都希望這個警政署可以依法來辦理那我也要在這邊要聲援當天包括四茶貓到現場可是其實警察在現場並沒有去協助維持民眾的人身安全那甚至他被暴力對待被用瓶子這樣子丟然後甚至是被打\n112048\t126499\t都沒有警察出手相助那這個畫面也看得非常多民眾覺得很心疼就是你一個集會最重要的警察在現場最重要工作就是維持所有民眾的人身安全不要讓這樣的衝突加劇可是我看到的是警察在現場放任這樣的行為不斷的發生甚至讓民眾的情緒越來越高漲\n135245\t154776\t最後這個暴民衝上去然後攻擊一個無辜的民眾那我不希望接下來還有這樣的事情發生所以我要在這邊拜託部長拜託警政署接下來一定要務必讓所有的民眾都是安全的好嗎是 報告委員這件事情包括您在內有多位委員來質詢所以我們有從旁來協助這位網紅他如果有需要提告的話那我們按照相關規定來辦理\n163061\t181341\t好謝謝部長說明那再來進到今天這個行政區劃法這行政區劃法我大致看了一下其實覺得牽涉的層面真的非常廣非常非常的複雜包括剛剛其實博弈委員提到你光是一個行政區你前面他的行政區改了一個名字就例如說啦\n182822\t203847\t萬華區改中正區中正區改萬華區就好了哇這個地價房價可能就差很多然後再來如果你改了一個住址下去可能你的身份證要改你的交通的節點所有的資訊全部都要改所有的資料這裡的路名什麼的全部都要改那這個可能都是\n204967\t222329\t這是幾大的事情一改下去大家都要重新的調整那這個也需要非常大的一筆經費那再來就是如果到時候選區重新劃分然後土地面積人口都有重新切割的話那可能在座的民代可能席次也會受影響\n222910\t236520\t立委啦議員啦然後包括當地的村里長等等是不是之後的席次也都要重新調整這個也必須要來考慮那再來我覺得最重要的還是如果接下來包括其實剛剛我們主席有提到的這個回籠到底要不要併台北的問題這個其實應該也要跟我們地方縣政府討論過吧那剛剛我不知道部長是說前年的時候是已經都有跟各縣市政府討論過一輪了是嗎\n252961\t277351\t好基本上是討論制度上的問題而不是個案的討論OK所以就是還沒有進到說要意願要或不要而是說這個授權到底要不要給出去是這樣子嗎是基本上的討論還是在制度上的討論對那我好奇的是說那大家有沒有共識覺得說要不要先把這個程序法的授權先給出來\n279093\t293784\t到底誰來決定然後要不要開始進行這個討論了大家各縣市現在的共識如何我還蠻好奇的就是大家如果有共識那我們來討論我覺得都很正面看待可是我不知道現在各縣市的態度到底如何\n294164\t308492\t因為像我自己在高雄市我也還不知道說我們高雄市其實包括我們市長或是其他的其他的立委的意見議員的意見然後里長大家的意見如何這個是不是還需要再收攏還是說你們其實有共識\n310677\t333321\t在一般各種不同區域的調整的這個部分包含這個不同跨縣市之間的或直轄市的改制當然有很多不同的意見那事實上在地方制度法裡面是有規定說直轄市改制之後的區域必須做一些調整剛剛也有一些委員有提到\n333801\t349751\t但是因為這個整個的調整的一個範圍包含小到區大到可能跨這個縣市之下等等有涉及到不同的一個法律的層面所以討論商要收攏的確要花一些時間來做討論\n351308\t380928\t好謝謝對啊因為聽起來真的是牽涉層面太廣了所以我剛剛光是我提的這幾個問題接下來如果要討論可能一項一項都要來細緻的討論那當然我覺得在此之前可以先做的是資源的分配啦因為這個行政區劃法很多縣市的目的也都是希望說接下來的生活圈可以讓同一個生活圈可以一致然後使用同樣的資源大家的資源分配下去是平均的但是我認為在此之前其實才劃法就可以做啦\n381468\t389430\t那只是因為現在新的財劃法上路之後我不知道說財劃法上路之後會不會跟這個行政區劃法接下來有漢格或是衝突的地方好 請財政部說明一下因為我乍看之下光是說因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額嘛那如果直轄市的分配額就例如說現在我一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了\n407284\t426736\t那會不會反而因為財劃法的關係讓新的行政區劃法被撥出去之後反而享受不到原本的資源我擔心的是這個是跟我們報告那行政區劃法的這個如果他的這個計劃施行之後那在這個財政收支劃分的部分必須要配合來做檢討\n429712\t453898\t對所以因為我們才剛修完才化法那當然我沒有很認同原本的現在的版本只是說如果到時候我們要來處理行政區劃法才化法還要再重修對不對必須要重新再檢討調整是的所以其實我看下去有非常多部法律必須要同時重新討論包括地方制度法跟我們行政區劃法到底有沒有衝突的地方然後包括才化法\n454338\t477197\t是不是也要搭配着调整那这是一个非常大非常多部法律必须要同时来检讨的一件事情所以我希望如果接下来要讨论可以那是不是也可以委请交委再多办几场公听会然后我们再把地方县市都邀来大家再把一件事情一件事情细细的讨论之后那寻求一个共识再上路\n478988\t488501\t好那這個就是相信大家應該都希望可以朝這個方向啦那希望這個部長接下來也持續的收攏地方的意見好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們先請部長\n劉部長有請部長想先跟您請教上禮拜國民黨的黨主席朱立倫率領國民黨的立委跟議員到了集會遊行的禁制區去抗議那我不知道說當然部長非常有魄力第一時間就是有用這個急優法說如果都有進到禁制區包括朱立倫主席謝龍介以及他們的發言人楊志宇等等要直接移送法辦\n那我想問喔 因為其實在場還有其他的人 包括徐巧欣等等 他們把這個鐵馬護欄都推倒了那請問這樣有違反什麼樣的法律嗎報告委員 這樣的部分的話 我們請這個警政同仁在現場 因為他們有收證我們根據收證的事實的話呢 就按照相關的規定來辦理\n那當然您剛所提到的部分就是說因為他們在到這個北檢前面去做抗議的時候呢本來就是由國民黨的黨主席發動的那再來就是他的發言人也在現場所以我們台北市警局在回應台北市議會的很多質詢的時候有特別提到這三位可能把它列為是守謀或者是他的發起活動的代言人\n好 謝謝部長說明那當然如果有違反這個社委法或是其他違反極有法的人士我也都希望這個警政署可以依法來辦理那我也要在這邊要聲援當天包括四茶貓到現場可是其實警察在現場並沒有去協助維持民眾的人身安全那甚至他被暴力對待被用瓶子這樣子丟然後甚至是被打\n都沒有警察出手相助那這個畫面也看得非常多民眾覺得很心疼就是你一個集會最重要的警察在現場最重要工作就是維持所有民眾的人身安全不要讓這樣的衝突加劇可是我看到的是警察在現場放任這樣的行為不斷的發生甚至讓民眾的情緒越來越高漲\n最後這個暴民衝上去然後攻擊一個無辜的民眾那我不希望接下來還有這樣的事情發生所以我要在這邊拜託部長拜託警政署接下來一定要務必讓所有的民眾都是安全的好嗎是 報告委員這件事情包括您在內有多位委員來質詢所以我們有從旁來協助這位網紅他如果有需要提告的話那我們按照相關規定來辦理\n好謝謝部長說明那再來進到今天這個行政區劃法這行政區劃法我大致看了一下其實覺得牽涉的層面真的非常廣非常非常的複雜包括剛剛其實博弈委員提到你光是一個行政區你前面他的行政區改了一個名字就例如說啦\n萬華區改中正區中正區改萬華區就好了哇這個地價房價可能就差很多然後再來如果你改了一個住址下去可能你的身份證要改你的交通的節點所有的資訊全部都要改所有的資料這裡的路名什麼的全部都要改那這個可能都是\n這是幾大的事情一改下去大家都要重新的調整那這個也需要非常大的一筆經費那再來就是如果到時候選區重新劃分然後土地面積人口都有重新切割的話那可能在座的民代可能席次也會受影響\n立委啦議員啦然後包括當地的村里長等等是不是之後的席次也都要重新調整這個也必須要來考慮那再來我覺得最重要的還是如果接下來包括其實剛剛我們主席有提到的這個回籠到底要不要併台北的問題這個其實應該也要跟我們地方縣政府討論過吧那剛剛我不知道部長是說前年的時候是已經都有跟各縣市政府討論過一輪了是嗎\n好基本上是討論制度上的問題而不是個案的討論OK所以就是還沒有進到說要意願要或不要而是說這個授權到底要不要給出去是這樣子嗎是基本上的討論還是在制度上的討論對那我好奇的是說那大家有沒有共識覺得說要不要先把這個程序法的授權先給出來\n到底誰來決定然後要不要開始進行這個討論了大家各縣市現在的共識如何我還蠻好奇的就是大家如果有共識那我們來討論我覺得都很正面看待可是我不知道現在各縣市的態度到底如何\n因為像我自己在高雄市我也還不知道說我們高雄市其實包括我們市長或是其他的其他的立委的意見議員的意見然後里長大家的意見如何這個是不是還需要再收攏還是說你們其實有共識\n在一般各種不同區域的調整的這個部分包含這個不同跨縣市之間的或直轄市的改制當然有很多不同的意見那事實上在地方制度法裡面是有規定說直轄市改制之後的區域必須做一些調整剛剛也有一些委員有提到\n但是因為這個整個的調整的一個範圍包含小到區大到可能跨這個縣市之下等等有涉及到不同的一個法律的層面所以討論商要收攏的確要花一些時間來做討論\n好謝謝對啊因為聽起來真的是牽涉層面太廣了所以我剛剛光是我提的這幾個問題接下來如果要討論可能一項一項都要來細緻的討論那當然我覺得在此之前可以先做的是資源的分配啦因為這個行政區劃法很多縣市的目的也都是希望說接下來的生活圈可以讓同一個生活圈可以一致然後使用同樣的資源大家的資源分配下去是平均的但是我認為在此之前其實才劃法就可以做啦\n那只是因為現在新的財劃法上路之後我不知道說財劃法上路之後會不會跟這個行政區劃法接下來有漢格或是衝突的地方好 請財政部說明一下因為我乍看之下光是說因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額嘛那如果直轄市的分配額就例如說現在我一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了\n那會不會反而因為財劃法的關係讓新的行政區劃法被撥出去之後反而享受不到原本的資源我擔心的是這個是跟我們報告那行政區劃法的這個如果他的這個計劃施行之後那在這個財政收支劃分的部分必須要配合來做檢討\n對所以因為我們才剛修完才化法那當然我沒有很認同原本的現在的版本只是說如果到時候我們要來處理行政區劃法才化法還要再重修對不對必須要重新再檢討調整是的所以其實我看下去有非常多部法律必須要同時重新討論包括地方制度法跟我們行政區劃法到底有沒有衝突的地方然後包括才化法\n是不是也要搭配着调整那这是一个非常大非常多部法律必须要同时来检讨的一件事情所以我希望如果接下来要讨论可以那是不是也可以委请交委再多办几场公听会然后我们再把地方县市都邀来大家再把一件事情一件事情细细的讨论之后那寻求一个共识再上路\n好那這個就是相信大家應該都希望可以朝這個方向啦那希望這個部長接下來也持續的收攏地方的意見好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.455 --> 00:07.322\n好謝謝主席我們先請部長\n\n00:08.297 --> 00:36.266\n劉部長有請部長想先跟您請教上禮拜國民黨的黨主席朱立倫率領國民黨的立委跟議員到了集會遊行的禁制區去抗議那我不知道說當然部長非常有魄力第一時間就是有用這個急優法說如果都有進到禁制區包括朱立倫主席謝龍介以及他們的發言人楊志宇等等要直接移送法辦\n\n00:36.986 --> 00:39.969\n那我想問喔因為其實在場還有其他的人包括徐巧欣等等他們把這個鐵馬護欄都推倒了那請問這樣有違反什麼樣的法律嗎報告委員這樣的部分的話我們請這個警政同仁在現場因為他們有收證我們根據收證的事實的話呢就按照相關的規定來辦理\n\n00:59.227 --> 01:23.678\n那當然您剛所提到的部分就是說因為他們在到這個北檢前面去做抗議的時候呢本來就是由國民黨的黨主席發動的那再來就是他的發言人也在現場所以我們台北市警局在回應台北市議會的很多質詢的時候有特別提到這三位可能把它列為是守謀或者是他的發起活動的代言人\n\n01:24.918 --> 01:38.003\n好謝謝部長說明那當然如果有違反這個社委法或是其他違反極有法的人士我也都希望這個警政署可以依法來辦理那我也要在這邊要聲援當天包括四茶貓到現場可是其實警察在現場並沒有去協助維持民眾的人身安全那甚至他被暴力對待被用瓶子這樣子丟然後甚至是被打\n\n01:52.048 --> 02:06.499\n都沒有警察出手相助那這個畫面也看得非常多民眾覺得很心疼就是你一個集會最重要的警察在現場最重要工作就是維持所有民眾的人身安全不要讓這樣的衝突加劇可是我看到的是警察在現場放任這樣的行為不斷的發生甚至讓民眾的情緒越來越高漲\n\n02:15.245 --> 02:34.776\n最後這個暴民衝上去然後攻擊一個無辜的民眾那我不希望接下來還有這樣的事情發生所以我要在這邊拜託部長拜託警政署接下來一定要務必讓所有的民眾都是安全的好嗎是報告委員這件事情包括您在內有多位委員來質詢所以我們有從旁來協助這位網紅他如果有需要提告的話那我們按照相關規定來辦理\n\n02:43.061 --> 03:01.341\n好謝謝部長說明那再來進到今天這個行政區劃法這行政區劃法我大致看了一下其實覺得牽涉的層面真的非常廣非常非常的複雜包括剛剛其實博弈委員提到你光是一個行政區你前面他的行政區改了一個名字就例如說啦\n\n03:02.822 --> 03:23.847\n萬華區改中正區中正區改萬華區就好了哇這個地價房價可能就差很多然後再來如果你改了一個住址下去可能你的身份證要改你的交通的節點所有的資訊全部都要改所有的資料這裡的路名什麼的全部都要改那這個可能都是\n\n03:24.967 --> 03:42.329\n這是幾大的事情一改下去大家都要重新的調整那這個也需要非常大的一筆經費那再來就是如果到時候選區重新劃分然後土地面積人口都有重新切割的話那可能在座的民代可能席次也會受影響\n\n03:42.910 --> 03:56.520\n立委啦議員啦然後包括當地的村里長等等是不是之後的席次也都要重新調整這個也必須要來考慮那再來我覺得最重要的還是如果接下來包括其實剛剛我們主席有提到的這個回籠到底要不要併台北的問題這個其實應該也要跟我們地方縣政府討論過吧那剛剛我不知道部長是說前年的時候是已經都有跟各縣市政府討論過一輪了是嗎\n\n04:12.961 --> 04:37.351\n好基本上是討論制度上的問題而不是個案的討論OK所以就是還沒有進到說要意願要或不要而是說這個授權到底要不要給出去是這樣子嗎是基本上的討論還是在制度上的討論對那我好奇的是說那大家有沒有共識覺得說要不要先把這個程序法的授權先給出來\n\n04:39.093 --> 04:53.784\n到底誰來決定然後要不要開始進行這個討論了大家各縣市現在的共識如何我還蠻好奇的就是大家如果有共識那我們來討論我覺得都很正面看待可是我不知道現在各縣市的態度到底如何\n\n04:54.164 --> 05:08.492\n因為像我自己在高雄市我也還不知道說我們高雄市其實包括我們市長或是其他的其他的立委的意見議員的意見然後里長大家的意見如何這個是不是還需要再收攏還是說你們其實有共識\n\n05:10.677 --> 05:33.321\n在一般各種不同區域的調整的這個部分包含這個不同跨縣市之間的或直轄市的改制當然有很多不同的意見那事實上在地方制度法裡面是有規定說直轄市改制之後的區域必須做一些調整剛剛也有一些委員有提到\n\n05:33.801 --> 05:49.751\n但是因為這個整個的調整的一個範圍包含小到區大到可能跨這個縣市之下等等有涉及到不同的一個法律的層面所以討論商要收攏的確要花一些時間來做討論\n\n05:51.308 --> 06:20.928\n好謝謝對啊因為聽起來真的是牽涉層面太廣了所以我剛剛光是我提的這幾個問題接下來如果要討論可能一項一項都要來細緻的討論那當然我覺得在此之前可以先做的是資源的分配啦因為這個行政區劃法很多縣市的目的也都是希望說接下來的生活圈可以讓同一個生活圈可以一致然後使用同樣的資源大家的資源分配下去是平均的但是我認為在此之前其實才劃法就可以做啦\n\n06:21.468 --> 06:29.430\n那只是因為現在新的財劃法上路之後我不知道說財劃法上路之後會不會跟這個行政區劃法接下來有漢格或是衝突的地方好請財政部說明一下因為我乍看之下光是說因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額嘛那如果直轄市的分配額就例如說現在我一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了\n\n06:47.284 --> 07:06.736\n那會不會反而因為財劃法的關係讓新的行政區劃法被撥出去之後反而享受不到原本的資源我擔心的是這個是跟我們報告那行政區劃法的這個如果他的這個計劃施行之後那在這個財政收支劃分的部分必須要配合來做檢討\n\n07:09.712 --> 07:33.898\n對所以因為我們才剛修完才化法那當然我沒有很認同原本的現在的版本只是說如果到時候我們要來處理行政區劃法才化法還要再重修對不對必須要重新再檢討調整是的所以其實我看下去有非常多部法律必須要同時重新討論包括地方制度法跟我們行政區劃法到底有沒有衝突的地方然後包括才化法\n\n07:34.338 --> 07:57.197\n是不是也要搭配着调整那这是一个非常大非常多部法律必须要同时来检讨的一件事情所以我希望如果接下来要讨论可以那是不是也可以委请交委再多办几场公听会然后我们再把地方县市都邀来大家再把一件事情一件事情细细的讨论之后那寻求一个共识再上路\n\n07:58.988 --> 08:08.501\n好那這個就是相信大家應該都希望可以朝這個方向啦那希望這個部長接下來也持續的收攏地方的意見好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.455,"end":7.322,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們先請部長"},{"start":8.297,"end":36.266,"text":"劉部長有請部長想先跟您請教上禮拜國民黨的黨主席朱立倫率領國民黨的立委跟議員到了集會遊行的禁制區去抗議那我不知道說當然部長非常有魄力第一時間就是有用這個急優法說如果都有進到禁制區包括朱立倫主席謝龍介以及他們的發言人楊志宇等等要直接移送法辦"},{"start":36.986,"end":39.969,"text":"那我想問喔 因為其實在場還有其他的人 包括徐巧欣等等 他們把這個鐵馬護欄都推倒了那請問這樣有違反什麼樣的法律嗎報告委員 這樣的部分的話 我們請這個警政同仁在現場 因為他們有收證我們根據收證的事實的話呢 就按照相關的規定來辦理"},{"start":59.227,"end":83.678,"text":"那當然您剛所提到的部分就是說因為他們在到這個北檢前面去做抗議的時候呢本來就是由國民黨的黨主席發動的那再來就是他的發言人也在現場所以我們台北市警局在回應台北市議會的很多質詢的時候有特別提到這三位可能把它列為是守謀或者是他的發起活動的代言人"},{"start":84.918,"end":98.003,"text":"好 謝謝部長說明那當然如果有違反這個社委法或是其他違反極有法的人士我也都希望這個警政署可以依法來辦理那我也要在這邊要聲援當天包括四茶貓到現場可是其實警察在現場並沒有去協助維持民眾的人身安全那甚至他被暴力對待被用瓶子這樣子丟然後甚至是被打"},{"start":112.048,"end":126.499,"text":"都沒有警察出手相助那這個畫面也看得非常多民眾覺得很心疼就是你一個集會最重要的警察在現場最重要工作就是維持所有民眾的人身安全不要讓這樣的衝突加劇可是我看到的是警察在現場放任這樣的行為不斷的發生甚至讓民眾的情緒越來越高漲"},{"start":135.245,"end":154.776,"text":"最後這個暴民衝上去然後攻擊一個無辜的民眾那我不希望接下來還有這樣的事情發生所以我要在這邊拜託部長拜託警政署接下來一定要務必讓所有的民眾都是安全的好嗎是 報告委員這件事情包括您在內有多位委員來質詢所以我們有從旁來協助這位網紅他如果有需要提告的話那我們按照相關規定來辦理"},{"start":163.061,"end":181.341,"text":"好謝謝部長說明那再來進到今天這個行政區劃法這行政區劃法我大致看了一下其實覺得牽涉的層面真的非常廣非常非常的複雜包括剛剛其實博弈委員提到你光是一個行政區你前面他的行政區改了一個名字就例如說啦"},{"start":182.822,"end":203.847,"text":"萬華區改中正區中正區改萬華區就好了哇這個地價房價可能就差很多然後再來如果你改了一個住址下去可能你的身份證要改你的交通的節點所有的資訊全部都要改所有的資料這裡的路名什麼的全部都要改那這個可能都是"},{"start":204.967,"end":222.329,"text":"這是幾大的事情一改下去大家都要重新的調整那這個也需要非常大的一筆經費那再來就是如果到時候選區重新劃分然後土地面積人口都有重新切割的話那可能在座的民代可能席次也會受影響"},{"start":222.91,"end":236.52,"text":"立委啦議員啦然後包括當地的村里長等等是不是之後的席次也都要重新調整這個也必須要來考慮那再來我覺得最重要的還是如果接下來包括其實剛剛我們主席有提到的這個回籠到底要不要併台北的問題這個其實應該也要跟我們地方縣政府討論過吧那剛剛我不知道部長是說前年的時候是已經都有跟各縣市政府討論過一輪了是嗎"},{"start":252.961,"end":277.351,"text":"好基本上是討論制度上的問題而不是個案的討論OK所以就是還沒有進到說要意願要或不要而是說這個授權到底要不要給出去是這樣子嗎是基本上的討論還是在制度上的討論對那我好奇的是說那大家有沒有共識覺得說要不要先把這個程序法的授權先給出來"},{"start":279.093,"end":293.784,"text":"到底誰來決定然後要不要開始進行這個討論了大家各縣市現在的共識如何我還蠻好奇的就是大家如果有共識那我們來討論我覺得都很正面看待可是我不知道現在各縣市的態度到底如何"},{"start":294.164,"end":308.492,"text":"因為像我自己在高雄市我也還不知道說我們高雄市其實包括我們市長或是其他的其他的立委的意見議員的意見然後里長大家的意見如何這個是不是還需要再收攏還是說你們其實有共識"},{"start":310.677,"end":333.321,"text":"在一般各種不同區域的調整的這個部分包含這個不同跨縣市之間的或直轄市的改制當然有很多不同的意見那事實上在地方制度法裡面是有規定說直轄市改制之後的區域必須做一些調整剛剛也有一些委員有提到"},{"start":333.801,"end":349.751,"text":"但是因為這個整個的調整的一個範圍包含小到區大到可能跨這個縣市之下等等有涉及到不同的一個法律的層面所以討論商要收攏的確要花一些時間來做討論"},{"start":351.308,"end":380.928,"text":"好謝謝對啊因為聽起來真的是牽涉層面太廣了所以我剛剛光是我提的這幾個問題接下來如果要討論可能一項一項都要來細緻的討論那當然我覺得在此之前可以先做的是資源的分配啦因為這個行政區劃法很多縣市的目的也都是希望說接下來的生活圈可以讓同一個生活圈可以一致然後使用同樣的資源大家的資源分配下去是平均的但是我認為在此之前其實才劃法就可以做啦"},{"start":381.468,"end":389.43,"text":"那只是因為現在新的財劃法上路之後我不知道說財劃法上路之後會不會跟這個行政區劃法接下來有漢格或是衝突的地方好 請財政部說明一下因為我乍看之下光是說因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額嘛那如果直轄市的分配額就例如說現在我一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了"},{"start":407.284,"end":426.736,"text":"那會不會反而因為財劃法的關係讓新的行政區劃法被撥出去之後反而享受不到原本的資源我擔心的是這個是跟我們報告那行政區劃法的這個如果他的這個計劃施行之後那在這個財政收支劃分的部分必須要配合來做檢討"},{"start":429.712,"end":453.898,"text":"對所以因為我們才剛修完才化法那當然我沒有很認同原本的現在的版本只是說如果到時候我們要來處理行政區劃法才化法還要再重修對不對必須要重新再檢討調整是的所以其實我看下去有非常多部法律必須要同時重新討論包括地方制度法跟我們行政區劃法到底有沒有衝突的地方然後包括才化法"},{"start":454.338,"end":477.197,"text":"是不是也要搭配着调整那这是一个非常大非常多部法律必须要同时来检讨的一件事情所以我希望如果接下来要讨论可以那是不是也可以委请交委再多办几场公听会然后我们再把地方县市都邀来大家再把一件事情一件事情细细的讨论之后那寻求一个共识再上路"},{"start":478.988,"end":488.501,"text":"好那這個就是相信大家應該都希望可以朝這個方向啦那希望這個部長接下來也持續的收攏地方的意見好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":416,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（9時57分）謝謝主席，我們先請部長。"],["主席：劉部長有請。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：部長，想先跟您請教，上禮拜國民黨黨主席朱立倫率領國民黨的立委跟議員到了集會遊行的禁制區去抗議，當然部長非常有魄力，第一時間就是用集遊法說，如果有進到禁制區，包括朱立倫主席、謝龍介以及他們的發言人楊智伃等等要直接移送法辦，那我想問，因為其實在場還有其他人包括徐巧芯等等，他們把鐵馬護欄都推倒了，請問這樣有違反什麼樣的法律嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，關於這個部分，因為我們警政同仁在現場有蒐證，我們根據蒐證的事實，就按照相關的規定來辦理。至於您剛剛所提到的部分，因為他們到北檢前面去做抗議的時候，本來是由國民黨黨主席發動的，再來就是他的發言人也在現場，所以臺北市警局在回應臺北市議會的很多質詢的時候有特別提到這3位，可能把他列為首謀，或者他是發起活動的代言人。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長的說明。當然如果有違反社維法，或是其他違反集遊法的人士，我也都希望警政署可以依法來辦理。我也要在這邊聲援當天包括四叉貓到現場，可是其實警察在現場並沒有去協助維持民眾的人身安全，甚至他被暴力對待，被用瓶子這樣子丟，甚至是被打，都沒有警察出手相助，看到這個畫面，非常多民眾都覺得很心疼。一個集會，警察在現場最重要的工作就是維持所有民眾的人身安全，不要讓這樣的衝突加劇，可是我看到的是警察在現場放任這樣的行為不斷地發生，甚至讓民眾的情緒越來越高漲，最後這個暴民衝上去，攻擊一個無辜的民眾，我不希望接下來還有這樣的事情發生，所以在這邊要拜託部長、拜託警政署，接下來務必要讓所有的民眾都是安全的，好嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，包括您在內，已經有多位委員質詢這件事情，我們有從旁來協助這位網紅，如果他有需要提告，我們會按照相關規定來辦理。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長說明。再來進入到行政區劃法草案，我大致看了一下這個草案，我覺得牽涉的層面真的非常廣、非常的複雜，包括剛剛柏毅委員也提到，光是一個行政區要改名字，例如萬華區改中正區、中正區改萬華區就好了，哇！這個地價及房價可能就差很多，如果要改住址，可能你的身分證、交通的節點、所有的資訊全部都要改，所有的資料、路名什麼的全部都要改，這都是茲事體大的事情，一改下去，大家都要重新的調整，這也需要非常大的一筆經費；再來，如果到時候選區重新劃分，土地、面積、人口都有重新切割的話，可能在座的民代的席次也會受影響，包括立委、議員、當地的村里長等等，是不是之後的席次都要重新調整，這也必須要一起考慮。","再來，我覺得最重要的如果接下來，包括剛剛主席有提到的迴龍到底要不要併臺北的問題，也應該要跟我們地方縣市政府討論過吧！剛剛部長提到在前年的時候已經都有跟各縣市政府討論過一輪了，是嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我請司長說明。"],["黃委員捷：好。"],["鄭司長英弘：基本上，是討論制度上的問題，而不是個案的討論。"],["黃委員捷：OK！所以還沒有討論到意願，要或不要？而是這個授權到底要不要下放，是這樣子嗎？"],["鄭司長英弘：是，基本上，還是在制度上的討論，而不是個案的討論。"],["黃委員捷：對，我好奇的是大家有沒有共識？要不要先把程序法的授權先給出來？到底誰來決定？要不要開始進行這個討論？各縣市現在的共識為何？我還蠻好奇的，大家如果有共識，我們來討論，我是很正面看待，可是不知道現在各縣市的態度到底如何？因為像我自己在高雄市，也還不知道我們高雄市，包括市長或是其他的立委、議員及里長的意見，大家的意見如何？是不是還需要再收攏？還是你們其實已經有共識了？"],["鄭司長英弘：在調整一般各種不同區域的部分，包含跨不同縣市之間的或者直轄市的改制，有很多不同的意見；事實上，在地方制度法裡是有規定直轄市改制之後的區，必須做一些調整，剛剛有一些委員有提到，因為整個調整的範圍，包含小到區，大到可能跨……"],["黃委員捷：跨縣市的。"],["鄭司長英弘：跨縣市、直轄市等等，有涉及到不同的法律層面，所以要收攏意見的確要花一些時間做討論。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝。對啊！因為聽起來真的是牽涉層面太廣了，所以光是我剛剛提的這幾個問題，接下來如果要討論，可能一項一項都要細緻地討論；在此之前可以先做的是資源的分配，因為行政區劃法在很多縣市的目的也都是希望可以讓同一個生活圈可以一致，並使用同樣的資源，大家的資源分配下去是平均的，但是我認為在此之前，其實財劃法就可以做啦！只是因為現在新的財劃法上路之後，我不知道會不會跟行政區劃法有扞格或是衝突的地方？"],["劉部長世芳：請財政部說明。"],["黃委員捷：好，請財政部說明一下。我乍看之下，因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額，如果直轄市的分配額……例如現在一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了，會不會因為財劃法的關係，讓新的行政區劃法被撥出去後，反而享受不到原本的資源？我擔心的是這個。"],["林副署長秀燕：跟委員報告，如果行政區劃法的計畫施行之後，在財政收支劃分的部分必須要配合做檢討。"],["黃委員捷：對，我們才剛修完財劃法，當然我沒有很認同現在的版本，只是如果到時候我們要來處理行政區劃法，財劃法還要再重修，對不對？"],["林副署長秀燕：必須要重新再檢討調整。"],["黃委員捷：是的，我看有非常多部法律都必須要同時重新討論，包括地方制度法跟行政區劃法到底有沒有衝突的地方？財劃法是不是也要搭配著調整？這是一個非常大、非常多部法律必須要同時來檢討的一件事情，所以我希望如果接下來要討論，「可以」，是不是也可以委請召委多辦幾場公聽會，再把地方縣市都邀來，大家再把一件一件事情細細的討論後，尋求一個共識然後再上路？好，相信大家應該都希望可以朝這個方向，也希望部長接下來持續的收攏地方的意見。"],["劉部長世芳：好的。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員的質詢。","跟委員會報告，安排公聽會當然沒有問題，但是現在大家的討論到目前為止，不可能在一部法律裡涉及實質的東西，先要有遊戲規則，像如果我們跟地方縣市政府討論，現在的狀況是連遊戲規則都沒有，要怎麼討論？所以實質的東西並不會有任何的進展，我們希望透過法案的審查、詢答、公聽會等等，儘速的把遊戲規則催生出來，以利討論，以上跟大家補充說明。","下一位請許宇甄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-12","speakers":["牛煦庭","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","許宇甄","吳琪銘","高金素梅","廖先翔","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃建賓","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「行政區劃法草案」案；二、審查委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「行政\n區劃法草案」案【僅詢答及宣讀提案條文】","agenda_id":"1144001_00001"}}}