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00:00:53,763\n就是這個有主管機關嘛像就是說如果它涉及的業務是有這樣的一個機密性應該要送特殊查核因為這是根據公務人員的任用法第四條只要是你出任或者是調任或者是在任都要辦理相關的查核\n\n4\n00:00:54,741 --> 00:01:15,210\n那我因為今天在我們國防就在隔壁國防在我們司法法治委員會有委員問到問到就是涉及共諜案的何仁杰因為大家都知道他歷任了包含國安會還有外交部那所以調查局的說法是說何仁杰他在任職這個\n\n5\n00:01:17,870 --> 00:01:42,847\n國安會的時候曾經查核過一次但是他之後再去調任到其他的機關譬如總統府跟外交部都沒有查核所以請問一下如果說我們先不管總統府的部分如果是他到國安會然後他再進外交部是不是外交部應該與查核才對是\n\n6\n00:01:45,655 --> 00:01:55,816\n所以依照何仁杰的案子如果他在2016年5月才進行過一次的查核他又到了外交部跟總統府所以這個有沒有違法的問題\n\n7\n00:01:58,046 --> 00:02:21,511\n我想這個涉及到依法行政的部分因為它是重返外交部不過我想您問我的話我認為是應該要查核依法應該要查核那麼請問一下外交部一等之一會涉及哪些的機密的任務或者是文件\n\n8\n00:02:24,805 --> 00:02:45,922\n因為他是機要任用嘛就是看他部長任用他賦予他什麼任務我想一般都有相當的機敏性所以一等資義確實有機敏性但他也要具體看每一個人的業務當你用一等資義去任用的時候基本上他一定會碰到一些機敏性的資料跟業務才對\n\n9\n00:02:47,073 --> 00:03:06,286\n就看部長賦予他的業務範圍,但是我是認為一等這個機要的這個資歷的任用他是涉及到機要,那當然也可能會涉及到機民的業務所以以部長您來看,就是這位涉及共諜案的何仁傑\n\n10\n00:03:07,287 --> 00:03:35,040\n在這個過程裡面是不是確實出現了一些問題就是說我們該查核的時候沒有依法去做查核而他涉入一些機敏的資料機敏的業務那麼他甚至應該辦理一些特殊的查核那我剛才講的是不管是出任在任調任這還是這是基本款這是基本款如果他有涉及國家安全重大利益的還要做特殊查核\n\n11\n00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:41,904\n所以也就是說今天會出現這樣的一個問題那是不是要在這過程裡面確實有過失及疏漏的地方有關於司法偵辦在進行中那那個部分我想檢調也會來查明但是就行政調查的部分我啟動正風調查就是希望釐清這個合圓當時所負責的業務涉及的機敏事項哪些資料那有給那個相關單位嗎\n\n12\n00:04:05,398 --> 00:04:18,393\n現在就是在整理中我們的政風處最近就是很密集的在會診而且在約尋相關的人了解他的業務所涉及的一些機敏性的範圍到哪裡\n\n13\n00:04:21,045 --> 00:04:33,516\n對我想應該要做全力的偵辦而且呢我剛才說這裡面顯然在我們有應該依法去做的沒有去依法做應該要做的沒有做好那因為時間關係我想請問一下部長在4月初緬甸發生大地震那當時呢外交部有特別提到因為我們關心台灣人在緬甸的狀況因為緬甸呢詐騙事實上詐騙台灣人的狀況\n\n14\n00:04:47,708 --> 00:04:52,812\n非常非常多而且有很多帶救援的這些人應該還帶救援因為我們現在海外詐騙事實上前陣子曾經稍微降下來一些我們可以看到2023的時候確實有降下來可是從去年開始到今年今年我們是統計到4月8號海外的詐騙又回升了而且如果我們看資料統計\n\n15\n00:05:15,871 --> 00:05:34,567\n以緬甸、遼國來說還有泰國我們成功救援的比例是偏低的泰國、緬甸、遼國我們的救援比例是偏低的所以我想請教一下我們外交部針對海外詐騙的回升還有針對要加強救援我們國人回台灣我們有什麼樣的精進防範的辦法\n\n16\n00:05:41,983 --> 00:06:09,444\n是首先自2022年期間當然我們也已經協助救援的人數也高達1500人但是因為這個數字實在是這個太多了多到就是說其實剛剛委員所提到的這個整個救援數的比例還是有限那首先因為這涉及到跨部會的業務所以我們也有行政院包括政務委員來協調因為除了我們外管我們外管是負責急難救助可是有一些警政\n\n17\n00:06:09,944 --> 00:06:32,415\n第二就是說涉及到的這一些跨境的犯罪那我們就必須請外管那過去是各自在進行我們就外管是一體的這一點在第一線來做救援工作是很重要那因為有一些國家涉及到像緬甸或是說您提到的寮國真的是一些國家的一個\n\n18\n00:06:34,036 --> 00:06:50,765\n制度比較不上軌道所以我們會透過間接的方式第三國或有熱心的人士或台商來協助那怎麼樣做到能夠確保救人優先但是又能夠符合我們的一些法律行政的規範不會讓公務員陷入險境或為難這個都是我們在不斷的檢討跟改進當中\n\n19\n00:06:55,107 --> 00:07:05,856\n這個部分我希望可以書面提供給本委員或者是我們那個外交委員會來做這個了解因為我要特別去提醒部長按照我們現在的數據顯示從去年開始其實國外詐騙它的\n\n20\n00:07:10,279 --> 00:07:35,646\n建樹又開始在升高我也知道外館要去營救是非常辛苦的那當然包含我們國內的宣傳國內的防度其實是非常重要但是這部分因為我們看到的數據讓我們有些擔心去年的數據又開始上升然後再加上我們當然希望能夠提高我們的救援率好這個部分就麻煩我們外交部提供書面的資料給我們好嗎好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n110\t1919\t主席我請林部長\n10449\t31861\t部長請問一下,外交部所任用的一等資義,如果進外交部的話,要不要做忠誠查核,依法要不要做?要,一般查核,特殊查核,看他的業務,負責的範圍一等資義需要做忠誠查核,特殊查核\n34232\t53763\t就是這個有主管機關嘛像就是說如果它涉及的業務是有這樣的一個機密性應該要送特殊查核因為這是根據公務人員的任用法第四條只要是你出任或者是調任或者是在任都要辦理相關的查核\n54741\t75210\t那我因為今天在我們國防就在隔壁國防在我們司法法治委員會有委員問到問到就是涉及共諜案的何仁杰因為大家都知道他歷任了包含國安會還有外交部那所以調查局的說法是說何仁杰他在任職這個\n77870\t102847\t國安會的時候曾經查核過一次但是他之後再去調任到其他的機關譬如總統府跟外交部都沒有查核所以請問一下如果說我們先不管總統府的部分如果是他到國安會然後他再進外交部是不是外交部應該與查核才對是\n105655\t115816\t所以依照何仁杰的案子如果他在2016年5月才進行過一次的查核他又到了外交部跟總統府所以這個有沒有違法的問題\n118046\t141511\t我想這個涉及到依法行政的部分因為它是重返外交部不過我想您問我的話我認為是應該要查核依法應該要查核那麼請問一下外交部一等之一會涉及哪些的機密的任務或者是文件\n144805\t165922\t因為他是機要任用嘛 就是看他部長任用他賦予他什麼任務我想一般都有相當的機敏性所以一等資義確實有機敏性但他也要具體看每一個人的業務當你用一等資義去任用的時候 基本上他一定會碰到一些機敏性的資料跟業務才對\n167073\t186286\t就看部長賦予他的業務範圍,但是我是認為一等這個機要的這個資歷的任用他是涉及到機要,那當然也可能會涉及到機民的業務所以以部長您來看,就是這位涉及共諜案的何仁傑\n187287\t215040\t在這個過程裡面是不是確實出現了一些問題就是說我們該查核的時候沒有依法去做查核而他涉入一些機敏的資料機敏的業務那麼他甚至應該辦理一些特殊的查核那我剛才講的是不管是出任在任調任這還是這是基本款這是基本款如果他有涉及國家安全重大利益的還要做特殊查核\n215760\t221904\t所以也就是說今天會出現這樣的一個問題那是不是要在這過程裡面確實有過失及疏漏的地方有關於司法偵辦在進行中那那個部分我想檢調也會來查明但是就行政調查的部分我啟動正風調查就是希望釐清這個合圓當時所負責的業務涉及的機敏事項哪些資料那有給那個相關單位嗎\n245398\t258393\t現在就是在整理中我們的政風處最近就是很密集的在會診而且在約尋相關的人了解他的業務所涉及的一些機敏性的範圍到哪裡\n261045\t273516\t對我想應該要做全力的偵辦而且呢我剛才說這裡面顯然在我們有應該依法去做的沒有去依法做應該要做的沒有做好那因為時間關係我想請問一下部長在4月初緬甸發生大地震那當時呢外交部有特別提到因為我們關心台灣人在緬甸的狀況因為緬甸呢詐騙事實上詐騙台灣人的狀況\n287708\t292812\t非常非常多而且有很多帶救援的這些人應該還帶救援因為我們現在海外詐騙事實上前陣子曾經稍微降下來一些我們可以看到2023的時候確實有降下來可是從去年開始到今年今年我們是統計到4月8號海外的詐騙又回升了而且如果我們看資料統計\n315871\t334567\t以緬甸、遼國來說還有泰國我們成功救援的比例是偏低的泰國、緬甸、遼國我們的救援比例是偏低的所以我想請教一下我們外交部針對海外詐騙的回升還有針對要加強救援我們國人回台灣我們有什麼樣的精進防範的辦法\n341983\t369444\t是首先自2022年期間當然我們也已經協助救援的人數也高達1500人但是因為這個數字實在是這個太多了多到就是說其實剛剛委員所提到的這個整個救援數的比例還是有限那首先因為這涉及到跨部會的業務所以我們也有行政院包括政務委員來協調因為除了我們外管我們外管是負責急難救助可是有一些警政\n369944\t392415\t第二就是說涉及到的這一些跨境的犯罪那我們就必須請外管那過去是各自在進行我們就外管是一體的這一點在第一線來做救援工作是很重要那因為有一些國家涉及到像緬甸或是說您提到的寮國真的是一些國家的一個\n394036\t410765\t制度比較不上軌道所以我們會透過間接的方式第三國或有熱心的人士或台商來協助那怎麼樣做到能夠確保救人優先但是又能夠符合我們的一些法律行政的規範不會讓公務員陷入險境或為難這個都是我們在不斷的檢討跟改進當中\n415107\t425856\t這個部分我希望可以書面提供給本委員或者是我們那個外交委員會來做這個了解因為我要特別去提醒部長按照我們現在的數據顯示從去年開始其實國外詐騙它的\n430279\t455646\t建樹又開始在升高我也知道外館要去營救是非常辛苦的那當然包含我們國內的宣傳國內的防度其實是非常重要但是這部分因為我們看到的數據讓我們有些擔心去年的數據又開始上升然後再加上我們當然希望能夠提高我們的救援率好這個部分就麻煩我們外交部提供書面的資料給我們好嗎好謝謝\n","txt":"主席我請林部長\n部長請問一下,外交部所任用的一等資義,如果進外交部的話,要不要做忠誠查核,依法要不要做?要,一般查核,特殊查核,看他的業務,負責的範圍一等資義需要做忠誠查核,特殊查核\n就是這個有主管機關嘛像就是說如果它涉及的業務是有這樣的一個機密性應該要送特殊查核因為這是根據公務人員的任用法第四條只要是你出任或者是調任或者是在任都要辦理相關的查核\n那我因為今天在我們國防就在隔壁國防在我們司法法治委員會有委員問到問到就是涉及共諜案的何仁杰因為大家都知道他歷任了包含國安會還有外交部那所以調查局的說法是說何仁杰他在任職這個\n國安會的時候曾經查核過一次但是他之後再去調任到其他的機關譬如總統府跟外交部都沒有查核所以請問一下如果說我們先不管總統府的部分如果是他到國安會然後他再進外交部是不是外交部應該與查核才對是\n所以依照何仁杰的案子如果他在2016年5月才進行過一次的查核他又到了外交部跟總統府所以這個有沒有違法的問題\n我想這個涉及到依法行政的部分因為它是重返外交部不過我想您問我的話我認為是應該要查核依法應該要查核那麼請問一下外交部一等之一會涉及哪些的機密的任務或者是文件\n因為他是機要任用嘛 就是看他部長任用他賦予他什麼任務我想一般都有相當的機敏性所以一等資義確實有機敏性但他也要具體看每一個人的業務當你用一等資義去任用的時候 基本上他一定會碰到一些機敏性的資料跟業務才對\n就看部長賦予他的業務範圍,但是我是認為一等這個機要的這個資歷的任用他是涉及到機要,那當然也可能會涉及到機民的業務所以以部長您來看,就是這位涉及共諜案的何仁傑\n在這個過程裡面是不是確實出現了一些問題就是說我們該查核的時候沒有依法去做查核而他涉入一些機敏的資料機敏的業務那麼他甚至應該辦理一些特殊的查核那我剛才講的是不管是出任在任調任這還是這是基本款這是基本款如果他有涉及國家安全重大利益的還要做特殊查核\n所以也就是說今天會出現這樣的一個問題那是不是要在這過程裡面確實有過失及疏漏的地方有關於司法偵辦在進行中那那個部分我想檢調也會來查明但是就行政調查的部分我啟動正風調查就是希望釐清這個合圓當時所負責的業務涉及的機敏事項哪些資料那有給那個相關單位嗎\n現在就是在整理中我們的政風處最近就是很密集的在會診而且在約尋相關的人了解他的業務所涉及的一些機敏性的範圍到哪裡\n對我想應該要做全力的偵辦而且呢我剛才說這裡面顯然在我們有應該依法去做的沒有去依法做應該要做的沒有做好那因為時間關係我想請問一下部長在4月初緬甸發生大地震那當時呢外交部有特別提到因為我們關心台灣人在緬甸的狀況因為緬甸呢詐騙事實上詐騙台灣人的狀況\n非常非常多而且有很多帶救援的這些人應該還帶救援因為我們現在海外詐騙事實上前陣子曾經稍微降下來一些我們可以看到2023的時候確實有降下來可是從去年開始到今年今年我們是統計到4月8號海外的詐騙又回升了而且如果我們看資料統計\n以緬甸、遼國來說還有泰國我們成功救援的比例是偏低的泰國、緬甸、遼國我們的救援比例是偏低的所以我想請教一下我們外交部針對海外詐騙的回升還有針對要加強救援我們國人回台灣我們有什麼樣的精進防範的辦法\n是首先自2022年期間當然我們也已經協助救援的人數也高達1500人但是因為這個數字實在是這個太多了多到就是說其實剛剛委員所提到的這個整個救援數的比例還是有限那首先因為這涉及到跨部會的業務所以我們也有行政院包括政務委員來協調因為除了我們外管我們外管是負責急難救助可是有一些警政\n第二就是說涉及到的這一些跨境的犯罪那我們就必須請外管那過去是各自在進行我們就外管是一體的這一點在第一線來做救援工作是很重要那因為有一些國家涉及到像緬甸或是說您提到的寮國真的是一些國家的一個\n制度比較不上軌道所以我們會透過間接的方式第三國或有熱心的人士或台商來協助那怎麼樣做到能夠確保救人優先但是又能夠符合我們的一些法律行政的規範不會讓公務員陷入險境或為難這個都是我們在不斷的檢討跟改進當中\n這個部分我希望可以書面提供給本委員或者是我們那個外交委員會來做這個了解因為我要特別去提醒部長按照我們現在的數據顯示從去年開始其實國外詐騙它的\n建樹又開始在升高我也知道外館要去營救是非常辛苦的那當然包含我們國內的宣傳國內的防度其實是非常重要但是這部分因為我們看到的數據讓我們有些擔心去年的數據又開始上升然後再加上我們當然希望能夠提高我們的救援率好這個部分就麻煩我們外交部提供書面的資料給我們好嗎好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.110 --> 00:01.919\n主席我請林部長\n\n00:10.449 --> 00:31.861\n部長請問一下,外交部所任用的一等資義,如果進外交部的話,要不要做忠誠查核,依法要不要做?要,一般查核,特殊查核,看他的業務,負責的範圍一等資義需要做忠誠查核,特殊查核\n\n00:34.232 --> 00:53.763\n就是這個有主管機關嘛像就是說如果它涉及的業務是有這樣的一個機密性應該要送特殊查核因為這是根據公務人員的任用法第四條只要是你出任或者是調任或者是在任都要辦理相關的查核\n\n00:54.741 --> 01:15.210\n那我因為今天在我們國防就在隔壁國防在我們司法法治委員會有委員問到問到就是涉及共諜案的何仁杰因為大家都知道他歷任了包含國安會還有外交部那所以調查局的說法是說何仁杰他在任職這個\n\n01:17.870 --> 01:42.847\n國安會的時候曾經查核過一次但是他之後再去調任到其他的機關譬如總統府跟外交部都沒有查核所以請問一下如果說我們先不管總統府的部分如果是他到國安會然後他再進外交部是不是外交部應該與查核才對是\n\n01:45.655 --> 01:55.816\n所以依照何仁杰的案子如果他在2016年5月才進行過一次的查核他又到了外交部跟總統府所以這個有沒有違法的問題\n\n01:58.046 --> 02:21.511\n我想這個涉及到依法行政的部分因為它是重返外交部不過我想您問我的話我認為是應該要查核依法應該要查核那麼請問一下外交部一等之一會涉及哪些的機密的任務或者是文件\n\n02:24.805 --> 02:45.922\n因為他是機要任用嘛就是看他部長任用他賦予他什麼任務我想一般都有相當的機敏性所以一等資義確實有機敏性但他也要具體看每一個人的業務當你用一等資義去任用的時候基本上他一定會碰到一些機敏性的資料跟業務才對\n\n02:47.073 --> 03:06.286\n就看部長賦予他的業務範圍,但是我是認為一等這個機要的這個資歷的任用他是涉及到機要,那當然也可能會涉及到機民的業務所以以部長您來看,就是這位涉及共諜案的何仁傑\n\n03:07.287 --> 03:35.040\n在這個過程裡面是不是確實出現了一些問題就是說我們該查核的時候沒有依法去做查核而他涉入一些機敏的資料機敏的業務那麼他甚至應該辦理一些特殊的查核那我剛才講的是不管是出任在任調任這還是這是基本款這是基本款如果他有涉及國家安全重大利益的還要做特殊查核\n\n03:35.760 --> 03:41.904\n所以也就是說今天會出現這樣的一個問題那是不是要在這過程裡面確實有過失及疏漏的地方有關於司法偵辦在進行中那那個部分我想檢調也會來查明但是就行政調查的部分我啟動正風調查就是希望釐清這個合圓當時所負責的業務涉及的機敏事項哪些資料那有給那個相關單位嗎\n\n04:05.398 --> 04:18.393\n現在就是在整理中我們的政風處最近就是很密集的在會診而且在約尋相關的人了解他的業務所涉及的一些機敏性的範圍到哪裡\n\n04:21.045 --> 04:33.516\n對我想應該要做全力的偵辦而且呢我剛才說這裡面顯然在我們有應該依法去做的沒有去依法做應該要做的沒有做好那因為時間關係我想請問一下部長在4月初緬甸發生大地震那當時呢外交部有特別提到因為我們關心台灣人在緬甸的狀況因為緬甸呢詐騙事實上詐騙台灣人的狀況\n\n04:47.708 --> 04:52.812\n非常非常多而且有很多帶救援的這些人應該還帶救援因為我們現在海外詐騙事實上前陣子曾經稍微降下來一些我們可以看到2023的時候確實有降下來可是從去年開始到今年今年我們是統計到4月8號海外的詐騙又回升了而且如果我們看資料統計\n\n05:15.871 --> 05:34.567\n以緬甸、遼國來說還有泰國我們成功救援的比例是偏低的泰國、緬甸、遼國我們的救援比例是偏低的所以我想請教一下我們外交部針對海外詐騙的回升還有針對要加強救援我們國人回台灣我們有什麼樣的精進防範的辦法\n\n05:41.983 --> 06:09.444\n是首先自2022年期間當然我們也已經協助救援的人數也高達1500人但是因為這個數字實在是這個太多了多到就是說其實剛剛委員所提到的這個整個救援數的比例還是有限那首先因為這涉及到跨部會的業務所以我們也有行政院包括政務委員來協調因為除了我們外管我們外管是負責急難救助可是有一些警政\n\n06:09.944 --> 06:32.415\n第二就是說涉及到的這一些跨境的犯罪那我們就必須請外管那過去是各自在進行我們就外管是一體的這一點在第一線來做救援工作是很重要那因為有一些國家涉及到像緬甸或是說您提到的寮國真的是一些國家的一個\n\n06:34.036 --> 06:50.765\n制度比較不上軌道所以我們會透過間接的方式第三國或有熱心的人士或台商來協助那怎麼樣做到能夠確保救人優先但是又能夠符合我們的一些法律行政的規範不會讓公務員陷入險境或為難這個都是我們在不斷的檢討跟改進當中\n\n06:55.107 --> 07:05.856\n這個部分我希望可以書面提供給本委員或者是我們那個外交委員會來做這個了解因為我要特別去提醒部長按照我們現在的數據顯示從去年開始其實國外詐騙它的\n\n07:10.279 --> 07:35.646\n建樹又開始在升高我也知道外館要去營救是非常辛苦的那當然包含我們國內的宣傳國內的防度其實是非常重要但是這部分因為我們看到的數據讓我們有些擔心去年的數據又開始上升然後再加上我們當然希望能夠提高我們的救援率好這個部分就麻煩我們外交部提供書面的資料給我們好嗎好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.11,"end":1.919,"text":"主席我請林部長"},{"start":10.449,"end":31.861,"text":"部長請問一下,外交部所任用的一等資義,如果進外交部的話,要不要做忠誠查核,依法要不要做?要,一般查核,特殊查核,看他的業務,負責的範圍一等資義需要做忠誠查核,特殊查核"},{"start":34.232,"end":53.763,"text":"就是這個有主管機關嘛像就是說如果它涉及的業務是有這樣的一個機密性應該要送特殊查核因為這是根據公務人員的任用法第四條只要是你出任或者是調任或者是在任都要辦理相關的查核"},{"start":54.741,"end":75.21,"text":"那我因為今天在我們國防就在隔壁國防在我們司法法治委員會有委員問到問到就是涉及共諜案的何仁杰因為大家都知道他歷任了包含國安會還有外交部那所以調查局的說法是說何仁杰他在任職這個"},{"start":77.87,"end":102.847,"text":"國安會的時候曾經查核過一次但是他之後再去調任到其他的機關譬如總統府跟外交部都沒有查核所以請問一下如果說我們先不管總統府的部分如果是他到國安會然後他再進外交部是不是外交部應該與查核才對是"},{"start":105.655,"end":115.816,"text":"所以依照何仁杰的案子如果他在2016年5月才進行過一次的查核他又到了外交部跟總統府所以這個有沒有違法的問題"},{"start":118.046,"end":141.511,"text":"我想這個涉及到依法行政的部分因為它是重返外交部不過我想您問我的話我認為是應該要查核依法應該要查核那麼請問一下外交部一等之一會涉及哪些的機密的任務或者是文件"},{"start":144.805,"end":165.922,"text":"因為他是機要任用嘛 就是看他部長任用他賦予他什麼任務我想一般都有相當的機敏性所以一等資義確實有機敏性但他也要具體看每一個人的業務當你用一等資義去任用的時候 基本上他一定會碰到一些機敏性的資料跟業務才對"},{"start":167.073,"end":186.286,"text":"就看部長賦予他的業務範圍,但是我是認為一等這個機要的這個資歷的任用他是涉及到機要,那當然也可能會涉及到機民的業務所以以部長您來看,就是這位涉及共諜案的何仁傑"},{"start":187.287,"end":215.04,"text":"在這個過程裡面是不是確實出現了一些問題就是說我們該查核的時候沒有依法去做查核而他涉入一些機敏的資料機敏的業務那麼他甚至應該辦理一些特殊的查核那我剛才講的是不管是出任在任調任這還是這是基本款這是基本款如果他有涉及國家安全重大利益的還要做特殊查核"},{"start":215.76,"end":221.904,"text":"所以也就是說今天會出現這樣的一個問題那是不是要在這過程裡面確實有過失及疏漏的地方有關於司法偵辦在進行中那那個部分我想檢調也會來查明但是就行政調查的部分我啟動正風調查就是希望釐清這個合圓當時所負責的業務涉及的機敏事項哪些資料那有給那個相關單位嗎"},{"start":245.398,"end":258.393,"text":"現在就是在整理中我們的政風處最近就是很密集的在會診而且在約尋相關的人了解他的業務所涉及的一些機敏性的範圍到哪裡"},{"start":261.045,"end":273.516,"text":"對我想應該要做全力的偵辦而且呢我剛才說這裡面顯然在我們有應該依法去做的沒有去依法做應該要做的沒有做好那因為時間關係我想請問一下部長在4月初緬甸發生大地震那當時呢外交部有特別提到因為我們關心台灣人在緬甸的狀況因為緬甸呢詐騙事實上詐騙台灣人的狀況"},{"start":287.708,"end":292.812,"text":"非常非常多而且有很多帶救援的這些人應該還帶救援因為我們現在海外詐騙事實上前陣子曾經稍微降下來一些我們可以看到2023的時候確實有降下來可是從去年開始到今年今年我們是統計到4月8號海外的詐騙又回升了而且如果我們看資料統計"},{"start":315.871,"end":334.567,"text":"以緬甸、遼國來說還有泰國我們成功救援的比例是偏低的泰國、緬甸、遼國我們的救援比例是偏低的所以我想請教一下我們外交部針對海外詐騙的回升還有針對要加強救援我們國人回台灣我們有什麼樣的精進防範的辦法"},{"start":341.983,"end":369.444,"text":"是首先自2022年期間當然我們也已經協助救援的人數也高達1500人但是因為這個數字實在是這個太多了多到就是說其實剛剛委員所提到的這個整個救援數的比例還是有限那首先因為這涉及到跨部會的業務所以我們也有行政院包括政務委員來協調因為除了我們外管我們外管是負責急難救助可是有一些警政"},{"start":369.944,"end":392.415,"text":"第二就是說涉及到的這一些跨境的犯罪那我們就必須請外管那過去是各自在進行我們就外管是一體的這一點在第一線來做救援工作是很重要那因為有一些國家涉及到像緬甸或是說您提到的寮國真的是一些國家的一個"},{"start":394.036,"end":410.765,"text":"制度比較不上軌道所以我們會透過間接的方式第三國或有熱心的人士或台商來協助那怎麼樣做到能夠確保救人優先但是又能夠符合我們的一些法律行政的規範不會讓公務員陷入險境或為難這個都是我們在不斷的檢討跟改進當中"},{"start":415.107,"end":425.856,"text":"這個部分我希望可以書面提供給本委員或者是我們那個外交委員會來做這個了解因為我要特別去提醒部長按照我們現在的數據顯示從去年開始其實國外詐騙它的"},{"start":430.279,"end":455.646,"text":"建樹又開始在升高我也知道外館要去營救是非常辛苦的那當然包含我們國內的宣傳國內的防度其實是非常重要但是這部分因為我們看到的數據讓我們有些擔心去年的數據又開始上升然後再加上我們當然希望能夠提高我們的救援率好這個部分就麻煩我們外交部提供書面的資料給我們好嗎好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":512,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時26分）謝謝主席，我請林部長。部長，請問一下，外交部所任用的一等諮議，如果進外交部的話，依法要不要做忠誠查核？"],["林部長佳龍：要。"],["王委員鴻薇：要嘛！應該要做。"],["林部長佳龍：他有一般查核、特殊查核，要看他的業務所負責的範圍。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是一等諮議需要做忠誠查核、特殊查核嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：這個由主管機關決定，如果他涉及的業務有機密性，就應該要送特殊查核。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，因為這是根據公務人員任用法第四條，只要是初任、調任或者是再任都要辦理相關的查核。今天在國防隔壁的司法及法制委員會，有委員問到涉及共諜案的何仁傑，大家都知道他歷任國安會及外交部。調查局的說法是何仁傑在任職國安會的時候曾經查核過一次，但是他之後再調任到其他的機關，譬如總統府跟外交部都沒有查核。請問一下，我們先不管總統府的部分，如果他先到國安會，然後再進外交部，是不是外交部應該予以查核才對？"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：依照何仁傑的案子，如果他在2016年5月才進行過一次查核，他又到外交部跟總統府，這個有沒有違法的問題？"],["林部長佳龍：我想這個涉及依法行政的部分，因為他是重返外交部，不過您問我的話，我認為應該要查核。"],["王委員鴻薇：依法應該要查核嘛！那麼請問一下，外交部一等諮議會涉及哪些機密任務或者是文件？你只要講哪些，不要講具體。"],["林部長佳龍：因為他是機要任用，就要看他的部長任用他是賦予他什麼任務，我想一般都有相當的機敏性。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以一等諮議確實有機敏性，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：但也要具體看每一個人的業務。"],["王委員鴻薇：是，但是當你們用一等諮議去任用的時候，基本上他一定會碰到一些機敏性的資料跟業務才對。"],["林部長佳龍：就看部長賦予他的業務範圍，但是我認為一等諮議的任用，若他涉及到機要，那當然也可能會涉及機敏的業務。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，所以以部長來看，這位涉及共諜案的何仁傑，在這個過程裡面是不是確實出現了一些問題？就是我們該查核的時候沒有依法查核，而他涉入一些機敏的資料、機敏的業務，他甚至應該辦理一些特殊的查核。我剛才講的是，不管是初任、再任、調任，這都還只是基本款，如果他有涉及國家安全、重大利益還要做特殊查核。也就是說，今天會出現這樣的問題，是不是在這過程裡面確實有過失及疏漏的地方？"],["林部長佳龍：有關於司法偵辦在進行中的那個部分，我想檢調也會來查明，但是就行政調查的部分，我有啟動政風調查，就是希望釐清何員當時負責的業務所涉及的機敏事項。"],["王委員鴻薇：就是涉及哪些資料。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：有給相關單位嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：現在就是在整理中，我們的政風處最近在密集地彙整，而且約詢相關的人，了解其業務所涉及的機敏性範圍到哪裡。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，我想應該要全力的偵辦，而且我剛剛說，這裡面顯然有應該依法去做的沒有依法做、應該要做的沒有做。","因為時間的關係，我想請問一下部長，在4月初緬甸發生大地震，當時外交部有特別提到，我們關心臺灣人在緬甸的狀況，而緬甸的詐騙，事實上詐騙臺灣人的狀況非常非常多，而且有很多待救援的人應該還在待救援。現在的海外詐騙，事實上前陣子曾經稍微降下來一些，我們可以看到2023年的時候確實有降下來，可是從去年開始到今年，今年我們是統計到4月8號，海外的詐騙又回升了。而且如果我們看統計的資料，以緬甸、寮國及泰國來說，我們成功救援的比例是偏低的，泰國、緬甸、寮國的救援比例是偏低的。所以我想請教一下，外交部針對海外詐騙回升及加強救援國人回臺灣，你們有什麼樣的精進防範辦法？"],["林部長佳龍：首先，自2022年迄今，我們已經協助救援的人數也高達1,500人，但是這個數字實在是太多了，多到就像剛剛委員所提到的，整個救援數的比例還是有限。因為這涉及跨部會的業務，所以也有行政院包括政務委員來協調，除了我們外館之外，他們是負責急難救助，可是還有一些警政調，就是涉及到跨境的犯罪，我們就必須請外館協助。過去是各自進行，但我們外館是一體的，這一點對於第一線做救援工作是很重要的。有些國家因為涉及到……像緬甸或是您提到的寮國，一些國家的制度比較不上軌道，所以我們會透過間接的方式，如第三國或熱心人士、臺商來協助，怎麼樣能夠做到確保救人優先，但是又能符合我們一些法律、行政的規範，不會讓公務員陷入險境或為難，這個都是我們在不斷檢討跟改進當中的。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個部分我希望可以提供書面給本委員或者是外交委員會來了解。我要特別提醒部長，按照現在的數據顯示，從去年開始，其實國外詐騙的件數又開始升高。我也知道外館要去營救是非常辛苦的，當然包含我們國內的宣傳、國內的防堵其實是非常重要。這一部分因為看到數據讓我們有些擔心，去年的數據又開始上升，再加上我們當然也希望能夠提高救援率，因此這個部分就麻煩外交部提供書面的資料給我們，好嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["王委員鴻薇：謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員上臺質詢。","接下來由吳思瑤委員上臺質詢，吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤委員，吳思瑤委員不在。","接下來由張啓楷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-9","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","林楚茵","王定宇","馬文君","徐巧芯","黃國昌","廖先翔","王鴻薇","張啓楷","李坤城","林憶君"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00002"}}}