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--> 00:00:23,214\n謝謝主席我們請防護政部長跟調查局陳局長好麻煩政部長局長\n\n2\n00:00:28,646 --> 00:00:46,765\n委員好部長好部長我想請教一下這段時間我們對於這個檢調的辦方式覺得十分的困惑就是檢調單位對於國民黨罷免綠委的連署動作如臨大敵不但大動作搜索我們國民黨的地方黨部\n\n3\n00:00:47,526 --> 00:01:01,281\n還對我們台北市黨部的主委黃磊錦如深壓禁建結果法院最後也判決說無任何證據可證其涉案甚至連經手提人名冊的事實都不存在所以這種\n\n4\n00:01:02,022 --> 00:01:21,217\n先射箭後劃靶的這種荒唐巨馬象徵著警察軍的一個濫用檢察軍的一個濫用更是對民主政治的一個踐踏而且讓大家感到困惑的是對於參與聯署的年輕人要50萬交保甚至有的被鮮壓但是對於涉及共諜案\n\n5\n00:01:22,458 --> 00:01:29,703\n我們的前立法院院長的辦公室的助理設共諜案的才20萬交保所以請問一下部長為什麼可以有這樣子的一個差別\n\n6\n00:01:34,351 --> 00:01:53,187\n跟委員報告因為是個案的一個不同就像共諜案也有人收押嘛共諜案收押是在他離開了這個地方被調查大概一年半之後後與委員的壓力才收押的那個案的情節也不同那我也沒有參與過辦案那請問部長你沒有參與你又說這是個案那我想請教你你認為涉嫌共諜而且危害到國家安全比較重要\n\n7\n00:02:02,334 --> 00:02:27,053\n還是這個偽造文書比較重要哪個情節比較重大這個個案的情節本來就不一樣嘛所以供諜不是有收押的嗎有好幾個標籤那請問一下我剛剛提到的原來在我們前立法院長游錫坤辦公室的助理盛楚英他用20萬交保他原來在立法院院長的辦公室喔那涉及供諜結果他居然可以這樣輕輕放過用20萬交保部長剛剛我聽到你說這是個案\n\n8\n00:02:30,495 --> 00:02:43,225\n好那請問個案的話共諜案表示比較不重要但是我們被因為連署疑似疑似偽造文書的就生壓境界有好幾位我們最近有四個都收押了嘛\n\n9\n00:02:44,105 --> 00:02:52,008\n對不對但是這四個收押是在一年半他離職一年半之後礙於輿論的壓力才收押的所以如果還是這樣子一個雙標的存在其實人民對司法真的沒有辦法信服沒有雙標的話我們覺得好我剛剛有問部長嘛到底你覺得國家安全比較重要還是涉及偽造文書比較重要為什麼可以這樣子\n\n10\n00:03:09,394 --> 00:03:29,645\n委召人數五十萬交保涉及供點二十萬交保部長我很尊重您我覺得這個部分您也是這方面的事實上您一路上來您在法務部的各個位置都歷練過相信您對於這樣子一個標準您自然心中有一個定見\n\n11\n00:03:30,726 --> 00:03:48,137\n但是我想全國人民都在看看我們的檢調系統看我們的法務系統要怎麼來去處理這樣子一個案子可是我們目前看到都是這種雙重標準而且半藍不半綠所以這一次我們看到的這些檢調的刀鋒根本就是針對在野黨\n\n12\n00:03:49,258 --> 00:04:06,218\n要不然的話不會用這樣的一個方式我們現在還有這個國民黨的黨部的副主委在收押禁建還有國民黨黨部的同仁在收押禁建然後接下來這個新北市黨部已經交保的新北市的地檢署又說要提出這個抗告\n\n13\n00:04:08,260 --> 00:04:26,648\n所以讓人家覺得就是小案大辦甚至高雄的這個領銜人徐尚賢他爸爸也提到了說這根本就是小鳥大炮打小鳥的一個狀況為什麼我們的檢調系統我們的法務系統會讓人民這樣的不幸福我覺得這個部分我覺得法務部真的要好好的來檢討一下\n\n14\n00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:53,519\n這個法官都准這個搜索票是法官准的那個羈押也是法官剛剛我想王宏威委員有跟您提到嘛我們的台北市黨部跟我們這個幾個區黨部是聯合辦公的所以針對霸雙無的案子呢是在市北還有在這個萬華中正可是卻搜索了中山大同而且帶著我們的黨員名冊這樣是可以的嗎\n\n15\n00:04:54,212 --> 00:05:19,789\n喔這個是個案齁那因為我對個案我不清楚因為就等於是個案喔也就是說我們現在如果在同一個共享辦公室辦公的話全部的人都要配合這個搜索嗎假設我今天就在一個共享辦公室那今天要調查A公司那我剩下的公司全部都要配合搜索嗎我有這個義務要配合搜索嗎可以拿走我們的名冊嗎你現在是要調查\n\n16\n00:05:23,812 --> 00:05:35,964\n霸雙無的連鎖案沒錯吧那是屬於市北跟這個中正萬華跟大同中山又有什麼關係怎麼可以用這樣的一個方式那另外呢我也請教這個陳局長\n\n17\n00:05:38,567 --> 00:06:04,393\n有關媒體報導就是有一天呢調查局忽然通知這個我們的外站的官員進行聯合線上視訊要求這個各外勤站還有權力偵辦罷免偽造及往生連署的案件喔那調查局在視訊中也特別的舉台南檢調辦林俊憲跟王定宇罷免造假的案子參與那當然我想參與視訊的人員\n\n18\n00:06:06,573 --> 00:06:23,912\n接下來就毛起來衝藍營的罷免的涉案喔而且調查局也為此提供專簽績效獎勵辦罷免案查詐騙有績效獎金嗎查供諜有績效獎金嗎為什麼查這個罷免連署的就有績效獎金沒有\n\n19\n00:06:25,153 --> 00:06:50,485\n沒有,是怎麼樣?沒有績效獎金那有這件事嗎?剛剛講的,有這樣子一個視訊會議嗎?但是沒有針對藍綠,對我們來說只有證據,沒有藍綠那請問一下,不管是部長,還有我們的局長在3月24號,我們就有去提告10位罷藍委的聯署人還有領銜團體,他們有偽造情勢的事情到現在快一個月了,一件都沒辦\n\n20\n00:06:51,505 --> 00:06:56,954\n但是呢現在罷綠委的呢一件一件的一直偵辦所以你剛剛講的沒有這個辦藍不辦綠的問題根本就是雙標\n\n21\n00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:21,448\n要不然為什麼我們從3月20日去提告的到現在都沒辦反而後面提告的已經都在甄辦了4月1號中選會提出來這樣子的一個告發之後馬上就如火如荼的到處搜索大搜索然後大這個大收壓那為什麼我們3月20日去提告到現在都一件都沒辦\n\n22\n00:07:22,468 --> 00:07:45,060\n我是不曉得委員提告的是哪些啦但是以調查局在執行目前在執行來講的話我們不會去管他藍的綠的我們就是只有管證據當天我們提告的有罷免這個尤浩的偽造情事的有罷免王宏威的偽造情事的有罷免丁薛忠的偽造情事甚至還罷免高宏安市長的偽造情事總共有10件\n\n23\n00:07:45,981 --> 00:07:54,313\n這個地檢署我們是到地檢署提告的所以到現在將近一個月都沒有提告但4月1號中選會才提出這樣的告發卻已經連續偵辦而且到處亂搜查而且剛剛我們也講過了針對我們黃綠主委的部分\n\n24\n00:08:01,264 --> 00:08:28,353\n事後根本查無完全事證不能因為他就是黨部的高層他就被這個懷疑是設法所以這次減調的這樣的一個動作已經引起所有民眾的一個憤怒了所以請局長針對這個部分說明我想我再次跟委員報告在我們的調查的過程裡面我們就是只有看證據不會去看他藍綠所以不管是藍的綠的只要有證據我們一律通通都會判那剛剛我提的\n\n25\n00:08:30,054 --> 00:08:36,398\n這個霸藍圍的部分我們去告發的到現在快一個月了為什麼都沒有那檢察官有發查的我們一定都是在偵查中那所以呢\n\n26\n00:08:38,937 --> 00:08:59,272\n所以發查的那些偵查中然後快賣是由你們自己決定要先查哪一件是由你們自己決定要蒐證啊這個部分要蒐證啊那請問要蒐證的狀況下為什麼沒辦法蒐證你看像後面的像前兩天呢這個什麼罷免那個我們林沛翔委員的有116件被告發\n\n27\n00:09:00,373 --> 00:09:19,331\n好結果咧不是去偵查不是去搜索領銜人或霸團居然去找連署的人問他有沒有連署這樣的執法是不是過當而且是不是也是搞錯重點對啊所以委員就是說如果我們努力去做那你又說我們這個做了過頭\n\n28\n00:09:22,173 --> 00:09:43,327\n主長你剛剛舉那個例子就是沒有顏色啊你剛剛提的那個就是我們沒有顏色我剛剛講的是說人家去提告的部分你應該是要去找領銜人嘛你應該去找霸團嘛你怎麼會去找連署人說你有沒有去連署而且早上六點半就去人家家裡搜索\n\n29\n00:09:44,227 --> 00:10:08,170\n這樣叫做你們有查這個我們依照檢察官的指揮檢察官的指揮叫你們這樣做只要去查連署人不用查領銜人不用查霸團看個案的內容我現在沒有辦法跟你說我想部長還有局長我覺得檢調應該要司法公正請還給我們人民一個信任真的不要再這樣子辦男不辦女我們本來就是依法正辦謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n17709\t23214\t謝謝主席 我們請防護政部長跟調查局陳局長好 麻煩政部長 局長\n28646\t46765\t委員好部長好部長我想請教一下這段時間我們對於這個檢調的辦方式覺得十分的困惑就是檢調單位對於國民黨罷免綠委的連署動作如臨大敵不但大動作搜索我們國民黨的地方黨部\n47526\t61281\t還對我們台北市黨部的主委黃磊錦如深壓禁建結果法院最後也判決說無任何證據可證其涉案甚至連經手提人名冊的事實都不存在所以這種\n62022\t81217\t先射箭後劃靶的這種荒唐巨馬象徵著警察軍的一個濫用檢察軍的一個濫用更是對民主政治的一個踐踏而且讓大家感到困惑的是對於參與聯署的年輕人要50萬交保甚至有的被鮮壓但是對於涉及共諜案\n82458\t89703\t我們的前立法院院長的辦公室的助理設共諜案的才20萬交保所以請問一下部長為什麼可以有這樣子的一個差別\n94351\t113187\t跟委員報告因為是個案的一個不同就像共諜案也有人收押嘛共諜案收押是在他離開了這個地方被調查大概一年半之後後與委員的壓力才收押的那個案的情節也不同那我也沒有參與過辦案那請問部長你沒有參與你又說這是個案那我想請教你你認為涉嫌共諜而且危害到國家安全比較重要\n122334\t147053\t還是這個偽造文書比較重要哪個情節比較重大這個個案的情節本來就不一樣嘛所以供諜不是有收押的嗎有好幾個標籤那請問一下我剛剛提到的原來在我們前立法院長游錫坤辦公室的助理盛楚英他用20萬交保他原來在立法院院長的辦公室喔那涉及供諜結果他居然可以這樣輕輕放過用20萬交保部長剛剛我聽到你說這是個案\n150495\t163225\t好 那請問個案的話 共諜案表示比較不重要但是我們被因為連署疑似 疑似偽造文書的就生壓境界有好幾位 我們最近有四個都收押了嘛\n164105\t172008\t對不對但是這四個收押是在一年半他離職一年半之後礙於輿論的壓力才收押的所以如果還是這樣子一個雙標的存在其實人民對司法真的沒有辦法信服沒有雙標的話我們覺得好我剛剛有問部長嘛到底你覺得國家安全比較重要還是涉及偽造文書比較重要為什麼可以這樣子\n189394\t209645\t委召人數五十萬交保涉及供點二十萬交保部長我很尊重您我覺得這個部分您也是這方面的事實上您一路上來您在法務部的各個位置都歷練過相信您對於這樣子一個標準您自然心中有一個定見\n210726\t228137\t但是我想全國人民都在看看我們的檢調系統看我們的法務系統要怎麼來去處理這樣子一個案子可是我們目前看到都是這種雙重標準而且半藍不半綠所以這一次我們看到的這些檢調的刀鋒根本就是針對在野黨\n229258\t246218\t要不然的話不會用這樣的一個方式我們現在還有這個國民黨的黨部的副主委在收押禁建還有國民黨黨部的同仁在收押禁建然後接下來這個新北市黨部已經交保的新北市的地檢署又說要提出這個抗告\n248260\t266648\t所以讓人家覺得就是小案大辦甚至高雄的這個領銜人徐尚賢他爸爸也提到了說這根本就是小鳥大炮打小鳥的一個狀況為什麼我們的檢調系統我們的法務系統會讓人民這樣的不幸福我覺得這個部分我覺得法務部真的要好好的來檢討一下\n268520\t293519\t這個法官都准 這個搜索票是法官准的那個羈押也是法官剛剛我想王宏威委員有跟您提到嘛我們的台北市黨部跟我們這個幾個區黨部是聯合辦公的所以針對霸雙無的案子呢是在市北還有在這個萬華中正可是卻搜索了中山大同而且帶著我們的黨員名冊這樣是可以的嗎\n294212\t319789\t喔 這個是個案齁 那因為我對個案 我不清楚因為 就等於是個案喔也就是說我們現在如果在同一個共享辦公室辦公的話全部的人都要配合這個搜索嗎假設我今天就在一個共享辦公室那今天要調查A公司那我剩下的公司全部都要配合搜索嗎我有這個義務要配合搜索嗎可以拿走我們的名冊嗎你現在是要調查\n323812\t335964\t霸雙無的連鎖案沒錯吧那是屬於市北跟這個中正萬華跟大同中山又有什麼關係怎麼可以用這樣的一個方式那另外呢我也請教這個陳局長\n338567\t364393\t有關媒體報導就是有一天呢調查局忽然通知這個我們的外站的官員進行聯合線上視訊要求這個各外勤站還有權力偵辦罷免偽造及往生連署的案件喔那調查局在視訊中也特別的舉台南檢調辦林俊憲跟王定宇罷免造假的案子參與那當然我想參與視訊的人員\n366573\t383912\t接下來就毛起來衝藍營的罷免的涉案喔而且調查局也為此提供專簽績效獎勵辦罷免案查詐騙有績效獎金嗎查供諜有績效獎金嗎為什麼查這個罷免連署的就有績效獎金沒有\n385153\t410485\t沒有,是怎麼樣?沒有績效獎金那有這件事嗎?剛剛講的,有這樣子一個視訊會議嗎?但是沒有針對藍綠,對我們來說只有證據,沒有藍綠那請問一下,不管是部長,還有我們的局長在3月24號,我們就有去提告10位罷藍委的聯署人還有領銜團體,他們有偽造情勢的事情到現在快一個月了,一件都沒辦\n411505\t416954\t但是呢現在罷綠委的呢一件一件的一直偵辦所以你剛剛講的沒有這個辦藍不辦綠的問題根本就是雙標\n421860\t441448\t要不然為什麼我們從3月20日去提告的到現在都沒辦反而後面提告的已經都在甄辦了4月1號中選會提出來這樣子的一個告發之後馬上就如火如荼的到處搜索大搜索然後大這個大收壓那為什麼我們3月20日去提告到現在都一件都沒辦\n442468\t465060\t我是不曉得委員提告的是哪些啦但是以調查局在執行目前在執行來講的話我們不會去管他藍的綠的我們就是只有管證據當天我們提告的有罷免這個尤浩的偽造情事的有罷免王宏威的偽造情事的有罷免丁薛忠的偽造情事甚至還罷免高宏安市長的偽造情事總共有10件\n465981\t474313\t這個地檢署我們是到地檢署提告的所以到現在將近一個月都沒有提告但4月1號中選會才提出這樣的告發卻已經連續偵辦而且到處亂搜查而且剛剛我們也講過了針對我們黃綠主委的部分\n481264\t508353\t事後根本查無完全事證不能因為他就是黨部的高層他就被這個懷疑是設法所以這次減調的這樣的一個動作已經引起所有民眾的一個憤怒了所以請局長針對這個部分說明我想我再次跟委員報告在我們的調查的過程裡面我們就是只有看證據不會去看他藍綠所以不管是藍的綠的只要有證據我們一律通通都會判那剛剛我提的\n510054\t516398\t這個霸藍圍的部分我們去告發的到現在快一個月了為什麼都沒有那檢察官有發查的我們一定都是在偵查中那所以呢\n518937\t539272\t所以發查的那些偵查中然後快賣是由你們自己決定要先查哪一件是由你們自己決定要蒐證啊這個部分要蒐證啊那請問要蒐證的狀況下為什麼沒辦法蒐證你看像後面的像前兩天呢這個什麼罷免那個我們林沛翔委員的有116件被告發\n540373\t559331\t好 結果咧 不是去偵查 不是去搜索領銜人或霸團居然去找連署的人 問他有沒有連署這樣的執法是不是過當 而且是不是也是搞錯重點對啊 所以委員就是說 如果我們努力去做那你又說我們這個做了過頭\n562173\t583327\t主長 你剛剛舉那個例子就是沒有顏色啊你剛剛提的那個就是我們沒有顏色我剛剛講的是說 人家去提告的部分你應該是要去找領銜人嘛 你應該去找霸團嘛你怎麼會去找連署人說 你有沒有去連署而且早上六點半就去人家家裡搜索\n584227\t608170\t這樣叫做你們有查這個我們依照檢察官的指揮檢察官的指揮叫你們這樣做只要去查連署人 不用查領銜人 不用查霸團看個案的內容 我現在沒有辦法跟你說我想部長還有局長我覺得檢調應該要司法公正請還給我們人民一個信任真的不要再這樣子辦男不辦女我們本來就是依法正辦 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請防護政部長跟調查局陳局長好 麻煩政部長 局長\n委員好部長好部長我想請教一下這段時間我們對於這個檢調的辦方式覺得十分的困惑就是檢調單位對於國民黨罷免綠委的連署動作如臨大敵不但大動作搜索我們國民黨的地方黨部\n還對我們台北市黨部的主委黃磊錦如深壓禁建結果法院最後也判決說無任何證據可證其涉案甚至連經手提人名冊的事實都不存在所以這種\n先射箭後劃靶的這種荒唐巨馬象徵著警察軍的一個濫用檢察軍的一個濫用更是對民主政治的一個踐踏而且讓大家感到困惑的是對於參與聯署的年輕人要50萬交保甚至有的被鮮壓但是對於涉及共諜案\n我們的前立法院院長的辦公室的助理設共諜案的才20萬交保所以請問一下部長為什麼可以有這樣子的一個差別\n跟委員報告因為是個案的一個不同就像共諜案也有人收押嘛共諜案收押是在他離開了這個地方被調查大概一年半之後後與委員的壓力才收押的那個案的情節也不同那我也沒有參與過辦案那請問部長你沒有參與你又說這是個案那我想請教你你認為涉嫌共諜而且危害到國家安全比較重要\n還是這個偽造文書比較重要哪個情節比較重大這個個案的情節本來就不一樣嘛所以供諜不是有收押的嗎有好幾個標籤那請問一下我剛剛提到的原來在我們前立法院長游錫坤辦公室的助理盛楚英他用20萬交保他原來在立法院院長的辦公室喔那涉及供諜結果他居然可以這樣輕輕放過用20萬交保部長剛剛我聽到你說這是個案\n好 那請問個案的話 共諜案表示比較不重要但是我們被因為連署疑似 疑似偽造文書的就生壓境界有好幾位 我們最近有四個都收押了嘛\n對不對但是這四個收押是在一年半他離職一年半之後礙於輿論的壓力才收押的所以如果還是這樣子一個雙標的存在其實人民對司法真的沒有辦法信服沒有雙標的話我們覺得好我剛剛有問部長嘛到底你覺得國家安全比較重要還是涉及偽造文書比較重要為什麼可以這樣子\n委召人數五十萬交保涉及供點二十萬交保部長我很尊重您我覺得這個部分您也是這方面的事實上您一路上來您在法務部的各個位置都歷練過相信您對於這樣子一個標準您自然心中有一個定見\n但是我想全國人民都在看看我們的檢調系統看我們的法務系統要怎麼來去處理這樣子一個案子可是我們目前看到都是這種雙重標準而且半藍不半綠所以這一次我們看到的這些檢調的刀鋒根本就是針對在野黨\n要不然的話不會用這樣的一個方式我們現在還有這個國民黨的黨部的副主委在收押禁建還有國民黨黨部的同仁在收押禁建然後接下來這個新北市黨部已經交保的新北市的地檢署又說要提出這個抗告\n所以讓人家覺得就是小案大辦甚至高雄的這個領銜人徐尚賢他爸爸也提到了說這根本就是小鳥大炮打小鳥的一個狀況為什麼我們的檢調系統我們的法務系統會讓人民這樣的不幸福我覺得這個部分我覺得法務部真的要好好的來檢討一下\n這個法官都准 這個搜索票是法官准的那個羈押也是法官剛剛我想王宏威委員有跟您提到嘛我們的台北市黨部跟我們這個幾個區黨部是聯合辦公的所以針對霸雙無的案子呢是在市北還有在這個萬華中正可是卻搜索了中山大同而且帶著我們的黨員名冊這樣是可以的嗎\n喔 這個是個案齁 那因為我對個案 我不清楚因為 就等於是個案喔也就是說我們現在如果在同一個共享辦公室辦公的話全部的人都要配合這個搜索嗎假設我今天就在一個共享辦公室那今天要調查A公司那我剩下的公司全部都要配合搜索嗎我有這個義務要配合搜索嗎可以拿走我們的名冊嗎你現在是要調查\n霸雙無的連鎖案沒錯吧那是屬於市北跟這個中正萬華跟大同中山又有什麼關係怎麼可以用這樣的一個方式那另外呢我也請教這個陳局長\n有關媒體報導就是有一天呢調查局忽然通知這個我們的外站的官員進行聯合線上視訊要求這個各外勤站還有權力偵辦罷免偽造及往生連署的案件喔那調查局在視訊中也特別的舉台南檢調辦林俊憲跟王定宇罷免造假的案子參與那當然我想參與視訊的人員\n接下來就毛起來衝藍營的罷免的涉案喔而且調查局也為此提供專簽績效獎勵辦罷免案查詐騙有績效獎金嗎查供諜有績效獎金嗎為什麼查這個罷免連署的就有績效獎金沒有\n沒有,是怎麼樣?沒有績效獎金那有這件事嗎?剛剛講的,有這樣子一個視訊會議嗎?但是沒有針對藍綠,對我們來說只有證據,沒有藍綠那請問一下,不管是部長,還有我們的局長在3月24號,我們就有去提告10位罷藍委的聯署人還有領銜團體,他們有偽造情勢的事情到現在快一個月了,一件都沒辦\n但是呢現在罷綠委的呢一件一件的一直偵辦所以你剛剛講的沒有這個辦藍不辦綠的問題根本就是雙標\n要不然為什麼我們從3月20日去提告的到現在都沒辦反而後面提告的已經都在甄辦了4月1號中選會提出來這樣子的一個告發之後馬上就如火如荼的到處搜索大搜索然後大這個大收壓那為什麼我們3月20日去提告到現在都一件都沒辦\n我是不曉得委員提告的是哪些啦但是以調查局在執行目前在執行來講的話我們不會去管他藍的綠的我們就是只有管證據當天我們提告的有罷免這個尤浩的偽造情事的有罷免王宏威的偽造情事的有罷免丁薛忠的偽造情事甚至還罷免高宏安市長的偽造情事總共有10件\n這個地檢署我們是到地檢署提告的所以到現在將近一個月都沒有提告但4月1號中選會才提出這樣的告發卻已經連續偵辦而且到處亂搜查而且剛剛我們也講過了針對我們黃綠主委的部分\n事後根本查無完全事證不能因為他就是黨部的高層他就被這個懷疑是設法所以這次減調的這樣的一個動作已經引起所有民眾的一個憤怒了所以請局長針對這個部分說明我想我再次跟委員報告在我們的調查的過程裡面我們就是只有看證據不會去看他藍綠所以不管是藍的綠的只要有證據我們一律通通都會判那剛剛我提的\n這個霸藍圍的部分我們去告發的到現在快一個月了為什麼都沒有那檢察官有發查的我們一定都是在偵查中那所以呢\n所以發查的那些偵查中然後快賣是由你們自己決定要先查哪一件是由你們自己決定要蒐證啊這個部分要蒐證啊那請問要蒐證的狀況下為什麼沒辦法蒐證你看像後面的像前兩天呢這個什麼罷免那個我們林沛翔委員的有116件被告發\n好 結果咧 不是去偵查 不是去搜索領銜人或霸團居然去找連署的人 問他有沒有連署這樣的執法是不是過當 而且是不是也是搞錯重點對啊 所以委員就是說 如果我們努力去做那你又說我們這個做了過頭\n主長 你剛剛舉那個例子就是沒有顏色啊你剛剛提的那個就是我們沒有顏色我剛剛講的是說 人家去提告的部分你應該是要去找領銜人嘛 你應該去找霸團嘛你怎麼會去找連署人說 你有沒有去連署而且早上六點半就去人家家裡搜索\n這樣叫做你們有查這個我們依照檢察官的指揮檢察官的指揮叫你們這樣做只要去查連署人 不用查領銜人 不用查霸團看個案的內容 我現在沒有辦法跟你說我想部長還有局長我覺得檢調應該要司法公正請還給我們人民一個信任真的不要再這樣子辦男不辦女我們本來就是依法正辦 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:17.709 --> 00:23.214\n謝謝主席我們請防護政部長跟調查局陳局長好麻煩政部長局長\n\n00:28.646 --> 00:46.765\n委員好部長好部長我想請教一下這段時間我們對於這個檢調的辦方式覺得十分的困惑就是檢調單位對於國民黨罷免綠委的連署動作如臨大敵不但大動作搜索我們國民黨的地方黨部\n\n00:47.526 --> 01:01.281\n還對我們台北市黨部的主委黃磊錦如深壓禁建結果法院最後也判決說無任何證據可證其涉案甚至連經手提人名冊的事實都不存在所以這種\n\n01:02.022 --> 01:21.217\n先射箭後劃靶的這種荒唐巨馬象徵著警察軍的一個濫用檢察軍的一個濫用更是對民主政治的一個踐踏而且讓大家感到困惑的是對於參與聯署的年輕人要50萬交保甚至有的被鮮壓但是對於涉及共諜案\n\n01:22.458 --> 01:29.703\n我們的前立法院院長的辦公室的助理設共諜案的才20萬交保所以請問一下部長為什麼可以有這樣子的一個差別\n\n01:34.351 --> 01:53.187\n跟委員報告因為是個案的一個不同就像共諜案也有人收押嘛共諜案收押是在他離開了這個地方被調查大概一年半之後後與委員的壓力才收押的那個案的情節也不同那我也沒有參與過辦案那請問部長你沒有參與你又說這是個案那我想請教你你認為涉嫌共諜而且危害到國家安全比較重要\n\n02:02.334 --> 02:27.053\n還是這個偽造文書比較重要哪個情節比較重大這個個案的情節本來就不一樣嘛所以供諜不是有收押的嗎有好幾個標籤那請問一下我剛剛提到的原來在我們前立法院長游錫坤辦公室的助理盛楚英他用20萬交保他原來在立法院院長的辦公室喔那涉及供諜結果他居然可以這樣輕輕放過用20萬交保部長剛剛我聽到你說這是個案\n\n02:30.495 --> 02:43.225\n好那請問個案的話共諜案表示比較不重要但是我們被因為連署疑似疑似偽造文書的就生壓境界有好幾位我們最近有四個都收押了嘛\n\n02:44.105 --> 02:52.008\n對不對但是這四個收押是在一年半他離職一年半之後礙於輿論的壓力才收押的所以如果還是這樣子一個雙標的存在其實人民對司法真的沒有辦法信服沒有雙標的話我們覺得好我剛剛有問部長嘛到底你覺得國家安全比較重要還是涉及偽造文書比較重要為什麼可以這樣子\n\n03:09.394 --> 03:29.645\n委召人數五十萬交保涉及供點二十萬交保部長我很尊重您我覺得這個部分您也是這方面的事實上您一路上來您在法務部的各個位置都歷練過相信您對於這樣子一個標準您自然心中有一個定見\n\n03:30.726 --> 03:48.137\n但是我想全國人民都在看看我們的檢調系統看我們的法務系統要怎麼來去處理這樣子一個案子可是我們目前看到都是這種雙重標準而且半藍不半綠所以這一次我們看到的這些檢調的刀鋒根本就是針對在野黨\n\n03:49.258 --> 04:06.218\n要不然的話不會用這樣的一個方式我們現在還有這個國民黨的黨部的副主委在收押禁建還有國民黨黨部的同仁在收押禁建然後接下來這個新北市黨部已經交保的新北市的地檢署又說要提出這個抗告\n\n04:08.260 --> 04:26.648\n所以讓人家覺得就是小案大辦甚至高雄的這個領銜人徐尚賢他爸爸也提到了說這根本就是小鳥大炮打小鳥的一個狀況為什麼我們的檢調系統我們的法務系統會讓人民這樣的不幸福我覺得這個部分我覺得法務部真的要好好的來檢討一下\n\n04:28.520 --> 04:53.519\n這個法官都准這個搜索票是法官准的那個羈押也是法官剛剛我想王宏威委員有跟您提到嘛我們的台北市黨部跟我們這個幾個區黨部是聯合辦公的所以針對霸雙無的案子呢是在市北還有在這個萬華中正可是卻搜索了中山大同而且帶著我們的黨員名冊這樣是可以的嗎\n\n04:54.212 --> 05:19.789\n喔這個是個案齁那因為我對個案我不清楚因為就等於是個案喔也就是說我們現在如果在同一個共享辦公室辦公的話全部的人都要配合這個搜索嗎假設我今天就在一個共享辦公室那今天要調查A公司那我剩下的公司全部都要配合搜索嗎我有這個義務要配合搜索嗎可以拿走我們的名冊嗎你現在是要調查\n\n05:23.812 --> 05:35.964\n霸雙無的連鎖案沒錯吧那是屬於市北跟這個中正萬華跟大同中山又有什麼關係怎麼可以用這樣的一個方式那另外呢我也請教這個陳局長\n\n05:38.567 --> 06:04.393\n有關媒體報導就是有一天呢調查局忽然通知這個我們的外站的官員進行聯合線上視訊要求這個各外勤站還有權力偵辦罷免偽造及往生連署的案件喔那調查局在視訊中也特別的舉台南檢調辦林俊憲跟王定宇罷免造假的案子參與那當然我想參與視訊的人員\n\n06:06.573 --> 06:23.912\n接下來就毛起來衝藍營的罷免的涉案喔而且調查局也為此提供專簽績效獎勵辦罷免案查詐騙有績效獎金嗎查供諜有績效獎金嗎為什麼查這個罷免連署的就有績效獎金沒有\n\n06:25.153 --> 06:50.485\n沒有,是怎麼樣?沒有績效獎金那有這件事嗎?剛剛講的,有這樣子一個視訊會議嗎?但是沒有針對藍綠,對我們來說只有證據,沒有藍綠那請問一下,不管是部長,還有我們的局長在3月24號,我們就有去提告10位罷藍委的聯署人還有領銜團體,他們有偽造情勢的事情到現在快一個月了,一件都沒辦\n\n06:51.505 --> 06:56.954\n但是呢現在罷綠委的呢一件一件的一直偵辦所以你剛剛講的沒有這個辦藍不辦綠的問題根本就是雙標\n\n07:01.860 --> 07:21.448\n要不然為什麼我們從3月20日去提告的到現在都沒辦反而後面提告的已經都在甄辦了4月1號中選會提出來這樣子的一個告發之後馬上就如火如荼的到處搜索大搜索然後大這個大收壓那為什麼我們3月20日去提告到現在都一件都沒辦\n\n07:22.468 --> 07:45.060\n我是不曉得委員提告的是哪些啦但是以調查局在執行目前在執行來講的話我們不會去管他藍的綠的我們就是只有管證據當天我們提告的有罷免這個尤浩的偽造情事的有罷免王宏威的偽造情事的有罷免丁薛忠的偽造情事甚至還罷免高宏安市長的偽造情事總共有10件\n\n07:45.981 --> 07:54.313\n這個地檢署我們是到地檢署提告的所以到現在將近一個月都沒有提告但4月1號中選會才提出這樣的告發卻已經連續偵辦而且到處亂搜查而且剛剛我們也講過了針對我們黃綠主委的部分\n\n08:01.264 --> 08:28.353\n事後根本查無完全事證不能因為他就是黨部的高層他就被這個懷疑是設法所以這次減調的這樣的一個動作已經引起所有民眾的一個憤怒了所以請局長針對這個部分說明我想我再次跟委員報告在我們的調查的過程裡面我們就是只有看證據不會去看他藍綠所以不管是藍的綠的只要有證據我們一律通通都會判那剛剛我提的\n\n08:30.054 --> 08:36.398\n這個霸藍圍的部分我們去告發的到現在快一個月了為什麼都沒有那檢察官有發查的我們一定都是在偵查中那所以呢\n\n08:38.937 --> 08:59.272\n所以發查的那些偵查中然後快賣是由你們自己決定要先查哪一件是由你們自己決定要蒐證啊這個部分要蒐證啊那請問要蒐證的狀況下為什麼沒辦法蒐證你看像後面的像前兩天呢這個什麼罷免那個我們林沛翔委員的有116件被告發\n\n09:00.373 --> 09:19.331\n好結果咧不是去偵查不是去搜索領銜人或霸團居然去找連署的人問他有沒有連署這樣的執法是不是過當而且是不是也是搞錯重點對啊所以委員就是說如果我們努力去做那你又說我們這個做了過頭\n\n09:22.173 --> 09:43.327\n主長你剛剛舉那個例子就是沒有顏色啊你剛剛提的那個就是我們沒有顏色我剛剛講的是說人家去提告的部分你應該是要去找領銜人嘛你應該去找霸團嘛你怎麼會去找連署人說你有沒有去連署而且早上六點半就去人家家裡搜索\n\n09:44.227 --> 10:08.170\n這樣叫做你們有查這個我們依照檢察官的指揮檢察官的指揮叫你們這樣做只要去查連署人不用查領銜人不用查霸團看個案的內容我現在沒有辦法跟你說我想部長還有局長我覺得檢調應該要司法公正請還給我們人民一個信任真的不要再這樣子辦男不辦女我們本來就是依法正辦謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":17.709,"end":23.214,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請防護政部長跟調查局陳局長好 麻煩政部長 局長"},{"start":28.646,"end":46.765,"text":"委員好部長好部長我想請教一下這段時間我們對於這個檢調的辦方式覺得十分的困惑就是檢調單位對於國民黨罷免綠委的連署動作如臨大敵不但大動作搜索我們國民黨的地方黨部"},{"start":47.526,"end":61.281,"text":"還對我們台北市黨部的主委黃磊錦如深壓禁建結果法院最後也判決說無任何證據可證其涉案甚至連經手提人名冊的事實都不存在所以這種"},{"start":62.022,"end":81.217,"text":"先射箭後劃靶的這種荒唐巨馬象徵著警察軍的一個濫用檢察軍的一個濫用更是對民主政治的一個踐踏而且讓大家感到困惑的是對於參與聯署的年輕人要50萬交保甚至有的被鮮壓但是對於涉及共諜案"},{"start":82.458,"end":89.703,"text":"我們的前立法院院長的辦公室的助理設共諜案的才20萬交保所以請問一下部長為什麼可以有這樣子的一個差別"},{"start":94.351,"end":113.187,"text":"跟委員報告因為是個案的一個不同就像共諜案也有人收押嘛共諜案收押是在他離開了這個地方被調查大概一年半之後後與委員的壓力才收押的那個案的情節也不同那我也沒有參與過辦案那請問部長你沒有參與你又說這是個案那我想請教你你認為涉嫌共諜而且危害到國家安全比較重要"},{"start":122.334,"end":147.053,"text":"還是這個偽造文書比較重要哪個情節比較重大這個個案的情節本來就不一樣嘛所以供諜不是有收押的嗎有好幾個標籤那請問一下我剛剛提到的原來在我們前立法院長游錫坤辦公室的助理盛楚英他用20萬交保他原來在立法院院長的辦公室喔那涉及供諜結果他居然可以這樣輕輕放過用20萬交保部長剛剛我聽到你說這是個案"},{"start":150.495,"end":163.225,"text":"好 那請問個案的話 共諜案表示比較不重要但是我們被因為連署疑似 疑似偽造文書的就生壓境界有好幾位 我們最近有四個都收押了嘛"},{"start":164.105,"end":172.008,"text":"對不對但是這四個收押是在一年半他離職一年半之後礙於輿論的壓力才收押的所以如果還是這樣子一個雙標的存在其實人民對司法真的沒有辦法信服沒有雙標的話我們覺得好我剛剛有問部長嘛到底你覺得國家安全比較重要還是涉及偽造文書比較重要為什麼可以這樣子"},{"start":189.394,"end":209.645,"text":"委召人數五十萬交保涉及供點二十萬交保部長我很尊重您我覺得這個部分您也是這方面的事實上您一路上來您在法務部的各個位置都歷練過相信您對於這樣子一個標準您自然心中有一個定見"},{"start":210.726,"end":228.137,"text":"但是我想全國人民都在看看我們的檢調系統看我們的法務系統要怎麼來去處理這樣子一個案子可是我們目前看到都是這種雙重標準而且半藍不半綠所以這一次我們看到的這些檢調的刀鋒根本就是針對在野黨"},{"start":229.258,"end":246.218,"text":"要不然的話不會用這樣的一個方式我們現在還有這個國民黨的黨部的副主委在收押禁建還有國民黨黨部的同仁在收押禁建然後接下來這個新北市黨部已經交保的新北市的地檢署又說要提出這個抗告"},{"start":248.26,"end":266.648,"text":"所以讓人家覺得就是小案大辦甚至高雄的這個領銜人徐尚賢他爸爸也提到了說這根本就是小鳥大炮打小鳥的一個狀況為什麼我們的檢調系統我們的法務系統會讓人民這樣的不幸福我覺得這個部分我覺得法務部真的要好好的來檢討一下"},{"start":268.52,"end":293.519,"text":"這個法官都准 這個搜索票是法官准的那個羈押也是法官剛剛我想王宏威委員有跟您提到嘛我們的台北市黨部跟我們這個幾個區黨部是聯合辦公的所以針對霸雙無的案子呢是在市北還有在這個萬華中正可是卻搜索了中山大同而且帶著我們的黨員名冊這樣是可以的嗎"},{"start":294.212,"end":319.789,"text":"喔 這個是個案齁 那因為我對個案 我不清楚因為 就等於是個案喔也就是說我們現在如果在同一個共享辦公室辦公的話全部的人都要配合這個搜索嗎假設我今天就在一個共享辦公室那今天要調查A公司那我剩下的公司全部都要配合搜索嗎我有這個義務要配合搜索嗎可以拿走我們的名冊嗎你現在是要調查"},{"start":323.812,"end":335.964,"text":"霸雙無的連鎖案沒錯吧那是屬於市北跟這個中正萬華跟大同中山又有什麼關係怎麼可以用這樣的一個方式那另外呢我也請教這個陳局長"},{"start":338.567,"end":364.393,"text":"有關媒體報導就是有一天呢調查局忽然通知這個我們的外站的官員進行聯合線上視訊要求這個各外勤站還有權力偵辦罷免偽造及往生連署的案件喔那調查局在視訊中也特別的舉台南檢調辦林俊憲跟王定宇罷免造假的案子參與那當然我想參與視訊的人員"},{"start":366.573,"end":383.912,"text":"接下來就毛起來衝藍營的罷免的涉案喔而且調查局也為此提供專簽績效獎勵辦罷免案查詐騙有績效獎金嗎查供諜有績效獎金嗎為什麼查這個罷免連署的就有績效獎金沒有"},{"start":385.153,"end":410.485,"text":"沒有,是怎麼樣?沒有績效獎金那有這件事嗎?剛剛講的,有這樣子一個視訊會議嗎?但是沒有針對藍綠,對我們來說只有證據,沒有藍綠那請問一下,不管是部長,還有我們的局長在3月24號,我們就有去提告10位罷藍委的聯署人還有領銜團體,他們有偽造情勢的事情到現在快一個月了,一件都沒辦"},{"start":411.505,"end":416.954,"text":"但是呢現在罷綠委的呢一件一件的一直偵辦所以你剛剛講的沒有這個辦藍不辦綠的問題根本就是雙標"},{"start":421.86,"end":441.448,"text":"要不然為什麼我們從3月20日去提告的到現在都沒辦反而後面提告的已經都在甄辦了4月1號中選會提出來這樣子的一個告發之後馬上就如火如荼的到處搜索大搜索然後大這個大收壓那為什麼我們3月20日去提告到現在都一件都沒辦"},{"start":442.468,"end":465.06,"text":"我是不曉得委員提告的是哪些啦但是以調查局在執行目前在執行來講的話我們不會去管他藍的綠的我們就是只有管證據當天我們提告的有罷免這個尤浩的偽造情事的有罷免王宏威的偽造情事的有罷免丁薛忠的偽造情事甚至還罷免高宏安市長的偽造情事總共有10件"},{"start":465.981,"end":474.313,"text":"這個地檢署我們是到地檢署提告的所以到現在將近一個月都沒有提告但4月1號中選會才提出這樣的告發卻已經連續偵辦而且到處亂搜查而且剛剛我們也講過了針對我們黃綠主委的部分"},{"start":481.264,"end":508.353,"text":"事後根本查無完全事證不能因為他就是黨部的高層他就被這個懷疑是設法所以這次減調的這樣的一個動作已經引起所有民眾的一個憤怒了所以請局長針對這個部分說明我想我再次跟委員報告在我們的調查的過程裡面我們就是只有看證據不會去看他藍綠所以不管是藍的綠的只要有證據我們一律通通都會判那剛剛我提的"},{"start":510.054,"end":516.398,"text":"這個霸藍圍的部分我們去告發的到現在快一個月了為什麼都沒有那檢察官有發查的我們一定都是在偵查中那所以呢"},{"start":518.937,"end":539.272,"text":"所以發查的那些偵查中然後快賣是由你們自己決定要先查哪一件是由你們自己決定要蒐證啊這個部分要蒐證啊那請問要蒐證的狀況下為什麼沒辦法蒐證你看像後面的像前兩天呢這個什麼罷免那個我們林沛翔委員的有116件被告發"},{"start":540.373,"end":559.331,"text":"好 結果咧 不是去偵查 不是去搜索領銜人或霸團居然去找連署的人 問他有沒有連署這樣的執法是不是過當 而且是不是也是搞錯重點對啊 所以委員就是說 如果我們努力去做那你又說我們這個做了過頭"},{"start":562.173,"end":583.327,"text":"主長 你剛剛舉那個例子就是沒有顏色啊你剛剛提的那個就是我們沒有顏色我剛剛講的是說 人家去提告的部分你應該是要去找領銜人嘛 你應該去找霸團嘛你怎麼會去找連署人說 你有沒有去連署而且早上六點半就去人家家裡搜索"},{"start":584.227,"end":608.17,"text":"這樣叫做你們有查這個我們依照檢察官的指揮檢察官的指揮叫你們這樣做只要去查連署人 不用查領銜人 不用查霸團看個案的內容 我現在沒有辦法跟你說我想部長還有局長我覺得檢調應該要司法公正請還給我們人民一個信任真的不要再這樣子辦男不辦女我們本來就是依法正辦 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1172,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（12時2分）謝謝主席，我們請法務部鄭部長跟調查局陳局長。"],["主席：麻煩鄭部長、陳局長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長好。部長，我想請教一下，這段時間我們對於檢調的辦案方式覺得十分的困惑，就是檢調單位對於國民黨罷免綠委的連署動作如臨大敵，不但大動作搜索我們國民黨的地方黨部，還對我們臺北市黨部主委黃呂錦茹聲押禁見，結果法院最後也判決無任何證據可證其涉案，甚至連經手提議人名冊的事實都不存在，所以這種先射箭後畫靶的荒唐劇碼，象徵警察權的濫用、檢察權的濫用，更是對民主政治的一個踐踏。而且讓大家感到困惑的是，對於參與連署的年輕人要50萬交保，甚至有的被聲押，但是對於涉及共諜案，前立法院院長辦公室助理涉共諜案的才20萬交保，所以請問一下部長，為什麼可以有這樣的一個差別？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，因為是個案的不同，就像共諜案也有人被收押嘛……"],["許委員宇甄：共諜案收押是在他離開了這個地方，被調查大概一年半之後……"],["鄭部長銘謙：有的人是收押……"],["許委員宇甄：迫於輿論的壓力才收押的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：有的人是交保，個案的情節不同，我也沒有參與辦案，我對案件……"],["許委員宇甄：部長，你沒有參與，你又說這是個案，那我想請教你，你認為涉嫌共諜且危害到國家安全比較重要，還是偽造文書比較重要？哪個情節比較重大？"],["鄭部長銘謙：個案的情節本來就不一樣嘛，所以共諜不是有收押了嗎？有好幾個……"],["許委員宇甄：好，那請問一下，我剛剛提到的，前立法院長游錫堃辦公室的助理盛礎纓用20萬交保，他原來在立法院院長辦公室喔，涉及共諜案結果居然可以這樣輕輕放過，用20萬交保。部長，剛剛我聽到您說這是個案。好，如果是個案的話，是不是表示共諜案比較不重要？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有，我沒有講說共諜案不重要……"],["許委員宇甄：但是我們因為連署疑似偽造文書的就聲押禁見……"],["鄭部長銘謙：共諜案的有好幾位，最近有4個都收押了嘛，對不對？"],["許委員宇甄：對，這4個收押是在一年半，他離職一年半之後，礙於輿論的壓力才收押的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們對共諜案很重視，所以才會被偵辦、被聲押，而且法官也准了……"],["許委員宇甄：如果還是這樣子有雙標的存在……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個沒有雙標！"],["許委員宇甄：其實人民對司法真的沒有辦法信服！沒有雙標的話，我剛剛有問部長嘛，到底你覺得國家安全比較重要還是涉及偽造文書比較重要？為什麼可以這樣子？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個共諜涉及國家安全……"],["許委員宇甄：偽造文書50萬交保，涉及共諜20萬交保……"],["鄭部長銘謙：連署涉及民主政治的基礎嘛，對不對？這個都很重要啊！"],["許委員宇甄：部長，我很尊重您，我覺得在這個部分，您也是這方面的……事實上，您一路上來，您在法務部的各個位置都歷練過，相信對於這樣的一個標準，您自然心中有一個定見，但是我想全國人民都在看，看我們的檢調系統、看我們的法務系統要怎麼去處理這樣的一個案子，可是目前看到都是這種雙重標準，而且辦藍不辦綠喔！所以，這一次我們看到，檢調的刀鋒根本就是針對在野黨，要不然的話，不會用這樣的一個方式。現在還有國民黨黨部的副主委在收押禁見，還有國民黨黨部的同仁在收押禁見，接下來對於新北市黨部已經交保的，新北地檢署又說要提出抗告，讓人家覺得就是小案大辦，甚至高雄的領銜人徐尚賢，他爸爸也提到說，這根本就是大炮打小鳥的狀況。為什麼我們的檢調系統、我們的法務系統會讓人民這樣不信服？這個部分我覺得法務部真的要好好地檢討一下。"],["鄭部長銘謙：搜索票是法官准的，至於羈押也是法官裁定……"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛我想王鴻薇委員也有提到，我們的臺北市黨部跟幾個區黨部是聯合辦公的，罷雙吳的案子是在士（林）北（投）還有萬華中正，可是卻搜索了中山大同，而且帶走我們的黨員名冊，這樣是可以的嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是個案，因為對個案我就不清楚，因為……"],["許委員宇甄：好，部長，那又是個案……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個本來就是個案，因為是偵查中的，是不是可以在哪些……"],["許委員宇甄：也就是說，我們現在如果在同一個共享辦公室辦公的話，全部的人都要配合這個搜索嗎？假設我今天就在一個共享辦公室，今天要調查A公司，那剩下的公司全部都要配合搜索嗎？我有這個義務要配合搜索嗎？可以拿走我們的名冊嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個搜索本來就是依法院核准的搜索票當初的……"],["許委員宇甄：你現在是要調查罷雙吳的連署案，沒錯吧？那是屬於士北跟中正萬華，跟大同中山又有什麼關係，怎麼可以用這樣的方式？","另外，我也請教陳局長，根據媒體報導，有一天調查局忽然通知外站的官員進行聯合線上視訊，要求各外勤站全力偵辦罷免偽造及往生連署的案件，調查局在視訊中也特別舉臺南檢調辦林俊憲跟王定宇罷免造假的案子。當然我想參與視訊的人員，接下來就卯起來衝藍營罷免的涉案，而且調查局也為此提供專簽績效獎勵辦罷免案。查詐騙有績效獎金嗎？查共諜有績效獎金嗎？為什麼查罷免連署的就有績效獎金？"],["陳局長白立：沒有。"],["許委員宇甄：沒有是怎麼樣？"],["陳局長白立：沒有績效獎金。"],["許委員宇甄：那有剛剛講的這件事嗎？有這樣一個視訊會議嗎？"],["陳局長白立：有，有這件事情，但是沒有針對藍綠，對我們來說只有證據沒有藍綠。"],["許委員宇甄：那請問一下不管是部長還是局長，3月24號我們就去提告10位罷藍委的連署人還有領銜團體有偽造的情事，到現在快一個月了，一件都沒辦，但是現在罷綠委的一件一件一直偵辦，所以您剛剛講的，沒有辦藍不辦綠的問題，根本就是雙標。要不然為什麼我們3月24號去提告的到現在都沒辦，反而後面提告的已經都在偵辦了，4月1號中選會提出告發之後，馬上就如火如荼的到處大搜索、大收押，為什麼我們3月24號去提告的，到現在一件都沒辦？"],["陳局長白立：我不曉得委員提告的是哪些，但是以調查局目前的執行來講，我們不會去管他藍的綠的，我們就是只有管證據而已。"],["許委員宇甄：好，當天我們提告的有罷免游顥偽造情事的，有罷免王鴻薇偽造情事的，有罷免丁學忠偽造情事的，甚至還有罷免高虹安市長偽造情事的，總共有10件。我們是到地檢署去提告的，到現在將近一個月都沒有提報……"],["陳局長白立：那應該就是在偵查中。"],["許委員宇甄：但4月1號中選會才提出告發，卻已經連續偵辦，而且到處亂搜索，剛剛我們也講過了，針對我們黃呂主委的部分，事後根本查無完全事證，不能因為他是黨部的高層就被懷疑是涉法，這次檢調的動作已經引起所有民眾的憤怒了，所以請局長針對這個部分說明。"],["陳局長白立：我再次跟委員報告，在我們調查的過程裡面，我們就只有看證據，不會去看他藍綠，所以不管是藍的、綠的，只要有證據，我們一律通通都會偵辦。"],["許委員宇甄：好，那剛剛我提的罷藍委的部分，我們去告發到現在快一個月了，為什麼都沒有辦？"],["陳局長白立：檢察官有發查的，我們一定都是在偵查中。"],["許委員宇甄：那所以呢？所以發查的，你們現在在偵查中……"],["陳局長白立：那就要蒐證啊！"],["許委員宇甄：然後快慢是由你們自己決定，要先查哪一件也是由你們自己決定？"],["陳局長白立：要蒐證，這個部分要蒐證。"],["許委員宇甄：那請問要蒐證的狀況下，為什麼沒辦法蒐證？"],["陳局長白立：其實我們也很多都在執行……"],["許委員宇甄：你看像後面的，像前兩天罷免我們林沛祥委員的有116件被告發，結果咧？不是去搜索領銜人或罷團，居然去找連署的人問他有沒有連署，這樣的執法是不是過當、是不是也搞錯重點？"],["陳局長白立：對啊，委員，如果我們努力去做，你又說我們這邊做得過頭；你說我們分顏色，你剛剛舉那個例子，就證明我們沒有顏色啊！"],["許委員宇甄：局長，局長，局長，你現在講的話都有錄影，你要負責喔……"],["陳局長白立：你剛剛提的那個就是我們沒有顏色，其實我們還是都照做……"],["許委員宇甄：我剛剛講的是說，關於人家去提告的部分，你應該是要去查領銜人嘛、你應該去查罷團嘛，你怎麼會去找連署人問你有沒有去連署，而且早上六點半就去人家家裡搜索，這樣叫做你們有查？"],["陳局長白立：這個我們依照檢察官的指揮，對，這個我們依照檢察官的指揮。"],["許委員宇甄：檢察官的指揮？檢察官的指揮叫你們這樣做，只要去查連署人，不用查領銜人、不用查罷團？"],["陳局長白立：看個案的內容，我現在沒有辦法跟你說。"],["許委員宇甄：部長還有局長，我覺得檢調應該要司法公正，請還給我們人民一個信任，真的不要再這樣辦藍不辦綠。謝謝。"],["陳局長白立：會，我們會。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們本來就是依法偵辦，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位我們請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-9","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","林倩綺","陳培瑜","沈發惠","王義川","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","莊瑞雄","許宇甄","張啓楷","羅智強","陳冠廷","翁曉玲"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2025-04-21"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、國家安全會議、國\n防部、國家安全局、海洋委員會、內政部警政署、國防部憲兵指揮部、國防部資通電軍指揮部、\n海洋委員會海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「軍事審判專庭（股）之執行現況，並就共諜滲透、機\n敏資訊洩漏等國安事件及忠誠安全查核機制，提出檢討報告及防制措施」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00003"}}}