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\"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 1853.143, \"end\": 1853.263, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 1853.263, \"end\": 1853.443, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 1853.443, \"end\": 1853.663, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 1853.663, \"end\": 1854.564, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1854.564, \"end\": 1854.804, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"堅\"}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 1854.804, \"end\": 1854.824, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,670 --> 00:00:27,006\n韓院長早安現在我們要先請園民會的主委曾主委麻煩請園民會備詢卓院長先休息一下但是呢也請你好好聽一下我對曾主委的質詢好嗎謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:34,329 --> 00:00:59,455\n委員好曾志偉早安早在今年的3月12號您率領你的主管來我的辦公室做業務報告我看得出來您是有心要做事而且有心要改變但是很遺憾的是您身邊的幕僚恐怕正在拖累整個人民會因為他們做出很多錯誤的決策甚至還發布了一些問題百出的新聞\n\n3\n00:01:00,495 --> 00:01:24,451\n而首先呢我現在要先跟你談的是我看到園民會的第一個問題就是人力流動率非常的驚人在新莊聯合辦公大樓的不僅僅只有園民會還有文化部跟治安署園民會呢你們有198名的正式人員短短的10個月裡面異動了45個人這將近四分之一耶\n\n4\n00:01:25,191 --> 00:01:51,247\n我們對比文化部、職安署他們都是以內部升遷為主而原民會呢都是申請外調這高達了29個人超過了六成啊好可怕你看這個數據沒有而今年的1月行政院提出的霸凌案件報告裡面也大聲的疾呼要落實總統改變職產文化杜絕霸凌的政策指示\n\n5\n00:01:51,767 --> 00:02:07,947\n要確保公務體系能夠健康的運作同時也承諾行政院院長要要求各機關全面清查是不是存在霸凌的行為並且要迅速調查跟依法處理請問主委原民會\n\n6\n00:02:09,208 --> 00:02:26,689\n這麼多人的離開這代表園民會的職場環境是讓人待不下去的大家不是升遷而是紛紛的逃離請問一下你是不是有全面清查調查是不是有職場霸凌或者是管理上的問題好謝謝委員的指教\n\n7\n00:02:27,458 --> 00:02:49,857\n我要跟委員講延民會的流動力這麼高不是現在才有我來了以後才知道因為延民會沒有宿舍那我們大部分都是從延鄉來的我們的族人甚至於他們在考試填字驗的時候也不太喜歡填延民會因為這嚴重影響到他的生活主委我在立法院已經23年了\n\n8\n00:02:51,698 --> 00:03:08,092\n第一次園民會流動率那麼高您剛剛講的問題是長年存在的問題這十個月當中還不到一年所以你是不是在這邊承諾我要回去調查一下可不可以一個月之內給我一些你們調查的書面報告可以嗎可以\n\n9\n00:03:09,113 --> 00:03:36,934\n好謝謝現在我要跟你談業務執行你們荒腔走板的例子比比皆是我們就拿禁法補償這個問題來說去年本席在這兩次的院會執行裡面你一再的護航說禁法補償的公務與預算不足可以用綜合發展基金來支應可是事實是這樣嗎沒有貴會提出的最佳預算的申請你們清楚的寫說\n\n10\n00:03:38,195 --> 00:03:52,844\n需要将近24亿元而我在今年也查了三月份最新的报表我们的基金扣掉负债之后可以动用的现金剩不到14亿这是根本不够用的\n\n11\n00:03:53,624 --> 00:04:22,119\n您知道嗎?但是沒關係主委您應該知道11月7號我們的行政院長他承諾他的錯誤他要用追加預算來補救淨法補償請問一下主委今年9月我們的族人可以如期領到一公頃6萬塊的淨法補償金嗎?謝謝可以可以嗎?可以我們有提出追加這個預算就是補足那個你已經提出追加預算了嘛但是院長已經核定了嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:22,864 --> 00:04:35,431\n目前還沒有但是我相信院長會好謝謝您好希望您的回答院長聽到了我們再來看一下剛剛三讀通過的原民會組織法裡面有關族群委員無己職的議題原民會你們發新聞稿說\n\n13\n00:04:40,526 --> 00:05:04,871\n族群委員名單不是主委你一個人的一舉一制之決定而是依照各界公推還有透過審查的結果實際上根本沒有公開推薦的程序啊絕大部分的族人也不清楚知道我們族群委員的功能是什麼最後我們看到的就是一片綠油油立委的助理國家養另外呢族群委員的人事費\n\n14\n00:05:05,871 --> 00:05:35,311\n我們希望他改聘正式的公務員的這個議題上原民會你們又發新聞稿說這個決議是沒有法律效力的沒有辦法實質保障主任的權益但是主委你看一下人事行政總署在1月6號發函給你們原民會要要求你們配合修法然後請你們評估人力的需求並且要循程序函報行政院\n\n15\n00:05:35,871 --> 00:05:42,061\n主委这是你没有无视法律呢还是你的幕僚在欺骗你给你错误的讯息\n\n16\n00:05:42,796 --> 00:06:11,224\n委員我跟妳報告因為刪除掉了這個族群委員那當然對我們的一些行政量能真的是沒有我現在跟你講的是我們刪除了這些無給值的這些預算之後把這個錢拿去改聘為正式的公務員而且我們的附帶決議也這麼說可是呢你們卻說這個是沒有法律效力的可是人事行政總署已經告訴你們啦要求你們配合啊\n\n17\n00:06:11,904 --> 00:06:33,272\n主委所以你們真的實在是你要進入狀況我很擔心你的幕僚都在欺騙你啊不是欺騙啦委員我跟你講再來再來再來我們來看一下員警吧主席委員的這個聘任從以前就是這樣子的進行嘛主委主委人事總處已經告訴你了他是有法律效力的啦所以請你們園民會要配合修法看到了沒有\n\n18\n00:06:33,632 --> 00:06:58,204\n我們也有配合請就說有一些我們希望已經請你配合修法了來再來我現在要跟你談的是原基法原基法在一百零四年徵訂了第二之一條要要求設置部落公法人可是呢民進黨執政這八年來申不出一個部落公法人現在你們園民會申出了一個叫做什麼公法人事辦計畫\n\n19\n00:06:59,505 --> 00:07:18,927\n然後我們看到這個事辦計畫的草案目前規劃是每一個部落要給他一百萬人事費就佔了六成六十萬然後業務費佔了四成四十萬請問一下主委部落公法人事辦計畫是不是有限定部落的數額\n\n20\n00:07:20,849 --> 00:07:46,959\n我跟委員報告為什麼要有事辦這個計畫因為我來之後我想講了這麼多年都沒有辦所以原住民的支持一直是停頓我希望說找幾個部落我們負責任的來找幾個部落為什麼要找這幾個部落是有原因的我們認為這個部落不管是村長代表部落會議的主席還有地方的核心幹部可以\n\n21\n00:07:47,608 --> 00:08:15,741\n比較能夠有一些共識所以我們希望找這幾個部落做得成功之後讓其他的部落也來看主委我聽到您的說法了我覺得您的說法是沒有辦法說服族人的啦因為你們沒有公開說明沒有公開堆建沒有公開審查這是不是又是一個綠油有事半板然後呢部落應該是由下而上不應該有園民會你們密室圈定啊\n\n22\n00:08:16,281 --> 00:08:40,200\n所以我在這邊要求你要公開決策公平然後建立民主參與跟資訊的透明機制讓全國七百多個部落都有公平競爭的機會畢竟人事費六十萬業務費四十萬這是一百萬不少的金額對部落的族人來說它會是另外一個人事的安排不是嗎我跟委員報告\n\n23\n00:08:44,903 --> 00:09:06,398\n這確實不是利有有的部落啊那請問一下你現在核定的這些部落他們有公開說明嗎現在核定的部落有幾個我們有下去跟他們做溝通做說明啊我們700多個部落裡面你是怎麼樣公開跟大家來說呢部落是如何來跟你原民會申報計畫呢這些你都沒有說明啊好啦接下來我要跟你談預算\n\n24\n00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:34,871\n在114年度的预算里面原民会你们新闻稿又对外说什么对于推动族语教会的一亿一千万元的预算要采取冻结的措施这严重冲击到部落发展看到新闻稿我真的是摇头我觉得你们原民会是不是人格分裂了因为我们在提这份说明的时候这个提案的时候说明清清楚楚这反映的是基层的现况\n\n25\n00:09:35,451 --> 00:09:52,043\n因为有族人跟我还有原民会的教文处反映相同的意见这个意见是什么就是针对推动落实族语生活化的执行意见我们看一下同样是执行落实族语生活化的族语保姆的政策\n\n26\n00:09:52,964 --> 00:10:11,295\n他有非常嚴謹的查核機制還有訪視人員還有專管中心而主語教會沒有欸甚至連審查主語教會核銷的會計事務所他們都發出聲明這個聲明說什麼看一下非依照審計準則查核\n\n27\n00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:40,707\n因此对上述各受奖励的单位也就是各教会的运作情形他的整体是不是允荡表达什么不提供任何程度的确信主委您看一下连会计事务所他们都不甘帮圆明会跟教会背书了这里面是不是有很大的问题啊所以呢本席就跟教文处一起开会我们做出了结论\n\n28\n00:10:41,387 --> 00:11:06,149\n我們把這些預算先暫時凍結然後來修訂原住民族語言發展補助辦法然後把族語教會族語保姆語推組織等等這些團體或者是個人未來他都可以申請到原民會的經費補助而且很重要的是不受年限的限制主委你應該知道族語教會的政策是根據\n\n29\n00:11:07,610 --> 00:11:35,667\n國家語言整體發展方案這五年計畫對吧到116年就沒有主語教會的政策了耶所以我們修訂這個辦法就是為了未來我們主語推廣的政策可以更擴大適用對象並且要常態性的補助沒有年限的我跟委員報告你難道不支持嗎我們改過這個補助的辦法一樣的教會也要循這個辦法來\n\n30\n00:11:37,988 --> 00:12:01,056\n這正是我要跟您說的很好主委您是支持的因為這個新版原住民族語言發展補助辦法就在4月17號的時候已經按照我們所謂的解凍條件已經修正發布了嘛對不對所以可見本席這個提案是有正當理由的我們不是在為難你們機關\n\n31\n00:12:02,737 --> 00:12:29,131\n如今呢你們也已經辦理完成事項了但是主委解凍報告還沒有送到立法院主委你當初都說了凍結這個案會衝擊不過可是現在可以解凍了可是現在已經可以解凍了很快就會提出來我們現在再整理可是你的意見好像跟行政院長不太一樣\n\n32\n00:12:29,551 --> 00:12:33,633\n同樣是114年的預算我要現在跟你談的是南島民主論壇的問題更是離譜了\n\n33\n00:12:53,240 --> 00:13:21,446\n南岛民主論壇從109年到114年這是總共六年計劃所以從109年到113年已經花費了我們的公務預算2.2億也是佔全部公務預算的2.5億的九成所以我之前就請人民會請你們提出效益的分析你們給我的報告裡面最重要的成果是什麼華西巴黎的音樂祭對吧\n\n34\n00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:46,544\n我仔細一看華西巴黎的音樂劇根本不是用南島民族論壇的經費啊你們怎麼可以這麼樣的一花接木的這樣子提出報告啊主委然後你的新聞稿又講什麼刪除預算勢必會嚴重打擊國際信任度跟外交處境請問一下圓圓會你們是外交部嗎\n\n35\n00:13:47,484 --> 00:14:10,097\n還是說外交部他們連邦交都顧不好然後要拜託你們去做我還沒請你回答主委我要問你我要問你南島民主論壇到底創造了多少部落的工作機會為族人帶來了多少經濟效益你要不要再跟我講巴西瓦里喔巴西瓦里不是用這筆預算喔\n\n36\n00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:38,118\n我跟妳報告這幾年來我們跟南島特別是南島語系的不管是帛琉不管是土豪魯不管是馬紹爾我們原住民對國家有貢獻請問對部落造成了多少的工作機會然後多少的經濟效益我們花了這麼多錢總是要有一些經濟效益啊\n\n37\n00:14:38,618 --> 00:14:54,336\n我也有跟你們講我們很多這些國家的留學生在台灣甚至於很多的大使來我們都請到部落去讓他們真正的感受到原住民的部落是什麼樣的狀況帶來了多少經濟效應這個部分是外交部做不到的\n\n38\n00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:56,797\n那些南島國家是我們自己的弟兄姊妹\n\n39\n00:15:15,981 --> 00:15:33,449\n主委你不是外交部你是園民會我們幫得上外交部的忙我覺得原住民很驕傲不要在這邊辯解了你不是外交部你是園民會再來園民會今年的預算是不是增加13億我們是不是根本沒有刪你們的基本設施維持費\n\n40\n00:15:34,349 --> 00:15:47,177\n基本設施維持費沒有刪預算增加基本設施費也沒有刪可是呢你們園民會竟然發公文恐嚇我們鄉鎮市公所說看一下\n\n41\n00:15:48,485 --> 00:16:17,135\n補助項目要先凍結50%要回收重新核定重新調整預算結構後續要滾動調整主委你知道嗎基本設施維持費是本席在立法院這23年來替原鄉的鄉長爭取的另外的預算你們現在說要凍結50%然後要收回要全部要重新滾動調整請問一下你們為什麼要這麼做\n\n42\n00:16:18,305 --> 00:16:27,736\n委員我跟你講即便是刪即便是動了預算有關這些我們社府的一些經費就是補助一些弱勢團體的從來沒有斷過但是這個基本設施費\n\n43\n00:16:33,624 --> 00:16:55,854\n是公所的一些基本設施的一些維持沒有做好立法院沒有刪除你們這筆預算啊那你們為什麼要公然的發公文給原鄉的公署我們要終結預算啊我們要終結預算來看就是說也很誠懇的跟公司講請你們按照科目我們不是刪掉請你們按照科目先50%而已嘛我們沒有刪也沒有凍結你憑什麼要凍結鄉公所的這50%預算好我們現在我要再問您\n\n44\n00:17:03,188 --> 00:17:17,597\n我們根本沒有刪這個預算原民會的預算也增加了13億你們也不斷的發新聞稿向我們的國人說推廣原住民族政策編列的政策宣導費用3696萬元也遭到我們在野黨全數刪除該會未來就沒有辦法透過媒體來傳遞相關政策的資訊\n\n45\n00:17:28,443 --> 00:17:55,625\n導致族人錯失重要的權益請問族委我們沒有園民台嗎園民台每年拿我們人民納稅錢五億卻沒有辦法傳遞資訊嗎而你們園民會的錯誤宣導只會混淆視聽散佈錯誤的資訊預算明明是增加的你們卻還趕預算不夠然後你們一邊又花大錢散佈假消息這樣的園民會族人能夠接受嗎你們這樣子胡搞小搞難道\n\n46\n00:17:56,886 --> 00:18:17,633\n立法委員不應該好好監督你們嗎然後我們再看到原民會你們惡意散佈假消息之後民進黨的側翼就接著混淆視聽了請問主委台大園圖中心今年度流標是因為禁法補償的關係還是因為財化法的關係你知道嗎民進黨的側翼一直講是因為禁法補償和財化法的關係\n\n47\n00:18:19,213 --> 00:18:41,567\n看一下公文原民會1月23號回文告訴我台大沿途中心的流標是因為常年入管人士效益不彰再加上推廣活動另外外包辦理這導致招標金額比去年少請問是你說謊還是民進黨的側翼者說謊現在給你機會來澄清你講的這個本來是在台大來做\n\n48\n00:18:44,412 --> 00:18:56,045\n你已經回文給我了啦是因為他的入管人事效益不彰嘛所以不是禁法補償跟財化法的關係嘛對嗎好謝謝現在我要再跟你談財政劃分授之法\n\n49\n00:19:00,129 --> 00:19:13,141\n你們的新聞稿說財政劃分修正影響了運作更將會嚴重衝擊援助民族的地區鄉鎮區公所的財政跟地方建設的發展請問一下財政收支劃分法修了哪幾條\n\n50\n00:19:15,542 --> 00:19:27,777\n這個我所知道的財政收支方法如果修了幾條你連修了幾條都講不出來然後精算的結果會影響多少原鄉的這些財政你都不知道會影響公所的財政啊\n\n51\n00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:53,677\n我問過主計總署主計總署告訴我園民會的預估只是可能延伸的情形不是實際的狀況你連修了哪幾條也沒有辦法講出實際狀況你還要恐嚇主委主委這是你應該做的事情嗎那你知道我提的財化法是要求行政院額外找到支持園鄉的薰球請問你支持我的修法嗎\n\n52\n00:19:54,677 --> 00:20:04,710\n額外給縣市政府...你不用轉了啦,謝謝我請卓院長如果我們的額度一樣封鎖,不一定能夠...時間暫停一下好不好,謝謝麻煩請卓院長背信我現在請卓院長\n\n53\n00:20:12,915 --> 00:20:33,849\n主委你要更加努力我知道你很認真但是你有一些幕僚真的在欺騙你請問一下院長你剛剛看到了我舉了那麼多園民會的問題它是嚴重失能而且人力流失非常的嚴重人事混亂決策錯誤假消息是滿天飛\n\n54\n00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:45,575\n我在這邊要求你責成園民會一個月之內調查我們人員外流的原因然後整頓人事團隊並且要停止散發誤導性的新聞稿可以嗎\n\n55\n00:20:48,944 --> 00:21:04,766\n請主委能夠一個月內調查人員外流的原因同時對這個會內的人事團隊要做精神上的鼓勵那麼有沒有發布誤導性的新聞可以檢討沒有的話要向委員說明\n\n56\n00:21:05,086 --> 00:21:28,787\n好謝謝院長我要問你的就是金髮補償的問題在9月行政院遭到外界的批判了之後花了49天你們認錯不救了現在呢114年度的總預算也已經公佈原民會的追加預算也已經送到你的行政院了院長請問一下追加預算什麼時候會送進立法院金髮補償這一個\n\n57\n00:21:31,235 --> 00:21:51,581\n預算不夠的問題我們經過朝野黨團在行政院裡面溝通協調才達成共識並不是行政院認錯我們是協商主任最關心的是到底能不能夠在九月份的時候領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金跟委員報告現在我們針對\n\n58\n00:21:52,847 --> 00:22:15,130\n因美國這個關稅的調整世界貿易重整我們現在這個階段第一要向國人提出的是我們未來在這個禮拜之內要提出的特別條例跟特別預算我問您的是我的族人能不能拿到一公頃六萬塊看一下這不只是影響族人權益喔還關係到你們政黨某位立法委員的政治承諾喔請您聽一下\n\n59\n00:22:25,455 --> 00:22:44,802\n請問院長這很嚴重耶請問一下九月份到底族人能不能領到一公頃六萬塊的補償因為剛剛族委說可以領得到我們在處理特別條例特別預算之後我們會統合整個今年度的總預算到底被刪減的數字該怎麼處理之後一併就整體的最佳預算送出\n\n60\n00:22:45,970 --> 00:22:50,337\n請問一下監察院已經針對預算提出釋憲了行政院要跟進嗎\n\n61\n00:22:51,668 --> 00:23:20,438\n這一定會對預算案跟財劃法所以我問候主席總書行政院一旦跟進並且憲法法庭財準暫時處分就無法處理追加預算即便剛剛我們考慮用綜合發展基金可是看一下到三月底可以動用的現金不到14億遠遠沒有辦法支應24億的預算缺口我再問你一次請你正面的回答我的族人九月份到底能不能領到\n\n62\n00:23:21,218 --> 00:23:42,108\n一公頃六萬塊的補償金如果行政院對預算案跟裁劃法提出釋憲如果提出釋憲也併同暫時處分的話影響的就不只是這十四億二十四億而已所以到底能不能領到我們會努力在特別預算特別條例特別預算之後和現在\n\n63\n00:23:43,629 --> 00:24:06,572\n立法院向校行政院自行刪除的部分現在還沒有辦法刪除所以到底能不能領到剛剛主委說可以領到你們的執政黨的委員說如果沒有領到他要辭職我要請院長記住不論是你也好還是剛剛那位執政黨的立法委員我們的族人如果不能夠在九月份如期領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金的話\n\n64\n00:24:08,033 --> 00:24:27,724\n後果你們要自己承擔喔也請你們負起責任接下來我要講的是當前世界上最重要的事情也是台灣人民最關心的那就是美國對等關稅的議題從4月2號到現在政府團隊在應對對等關稅這件事情上你們不但錯估形勢而且手忙腳亂\n\n65\n00:24:28,684 --> 00:24:46,816\n你們也沒有做好最好的準備做最壞的打算你們只知道盲目的順從美國的政府的號令比起民進黨政府被動的被川普吃乾媽勁我覺得新加坡總理黃巡柴先生的態度更令我尊敬看一下黃總理他在4月8號國會發言的時候他說\n\n66\n00:24:49,218 --> 00:25:14,598\n对于美国宣布向新加坡征收10%的对等关税他感到失望他说新美有深厚的友谊这不是对朋友应该有的行为他还说美国只着重于货物贸易但是实际上美国跟许多服务贸易伙伴都保持着顺差美国向世界出口软体服务\n\n67\n00:25:15,118 --> 00:25:39,505\n教育娱乐金融和商业服务等等我们可以看到尽管新加坡政府他也宣布了不在对等关税上面来报复美国但是黄总理他不卑不亢他诚恳说了实话他为什么呢我们民进党你们就不能够对这个所谓的坚弱磐石的朋友表示失望\n\n68\n00:25:40,245 --> 00:26:00,592\n你們為什麼不能夠用朋友的道義來要求美國呢而這樣的友誼難道不該懷疑嗎我在這五年來我一直對美國的對台政策跟你們發出警示我們為什麼要開放萊豬進口我們為什麼要放寬美國農藥殘留量的管制\n\n69\n00:26:01,252 --> 00:26:26,566\n我们为什么要接受美国提出来的台湾学人法案然后让美国官员到我们政府工作我们为什么要签署那个对我们贸易谈判根本非常不利的台美贸易倡议我们为什么要把九成以上的外汇存顶大把大把的去买美债而我的这些疑问其实呢总结起来就是一句话\n\n70\n00:26:27,446 --> 00:26:51,662\n一昧的依靠美国就是死路一条但是纵使我说了这么多可是民进党政府你们就是不听美国政府说什么民进党政府你们就做什么你们还贴飘签说我是以美论结果呢川普政府现在所做的行为在我们看来就是以美啊\n\n71\n00:26:52,623 --> 00:27:21,602\n還原美國是必要的因為只有這樣我們才能夠獨立自主的做出最有利於人民的判斷這一次的對等關稅對台灣人民來說是災難而我們的賴總統卻要人民吃苦當吃補院長不向美國報復並不等於就該全面投降您認為呢台灣當然不會向任何一個國家投降包括美國包括中國在內\n\n72\n00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:38,982\n但是我們對於川普總統的新的關稅政策我們在4月4號的記者會當中我們就說過了這是一個不合理的計算公式我們一定會提出嚴正的反應很好我們都說過了4月4號但是呢我們賴總統\n\n73\n00:27:40,223 --> 00:27:57,074\n他已經把底線都告訴了美國我們不會採取報復的證據在4月15號的時候有委員質詢你政府是不是有考慮要加碼持有美戰你說內部是有準備的我們任何選項都有討論不一定採行這樣的方式看一下最近外傳\n\n74\n00:27:57,994 --> 00:28:21,145\n美国可能要逼迫美债的债权人将所持有的美债换成一百年期的临时债券针对这件事情中央银行总裁杨金龙他也回应说如果真的是这么样的转换那就相当是美债的倒债了那您之前有说关于加码持有美债政府内部有准备请问是准备什么\n\n75\n00:28:21,525 --> 00:28:41,119\n是加碼呢還是轉換呢應該更正我說我們任何的選項都在我到底會不會要現在問你的是美債的問題對它也當然是一個選項你們是加碼還是轉換我們在我們的方案裡面如果沒有提出來那就是不是我們的方案所以你認為購買美債再加碼美債不是你們的方案\n\n76\n00:28:41,804 --> 00:29:05,216\n這是一個選項,但是我們如果最後重整沒有提出來,那就是不是我們選舉的內容。好啦,我要在這裡告訴您的是,院長,不管是加碼還是轉換,結果都是楊金龍總裁他所說的,倒在。而經過川普這麼樣的震撼教育,台灣全民其實都聰明了,大家都在看,也都在等。\n\n77\n00:29:06,328 --> 00:29:25,726\n不是您在這邊一直三言兩語撥開重點在這邊打詢的態度我想台灣人民現在正面臨的是生死存亡的大事所以我們是要非常嚴肅的看待這樣的事情我們非常嚴肅\n\n78\n00:29:26,807 --> 00:29:51,103\n我們也從4月4號提出的9個面向20項措施當中也告訴國人我們對產業的支持所以我們先前是有準備的我們也提升了那我們現在的策略是備妥所有的協調談判的方案內容隨時準備啟動在第一次的正式視訊會議之後隨時準備下一次任何形式的談判請問第一次視訊會議你們的結論是什麼\n\n79\n00:29:53,665 --> 00:30:21,463\n我們說過了雙方對於對等關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及包括出口管制在內的多項議題都進行了交換意見現在我們要把這些意見重整之後等待下一次應該很快就會到來跟美方進行的談判第二次談判會是什麼時候這個因為美方還要針對很多的國家但是我敢跟委員說我們已經是在優先的國家行列當中多優先很優先\n\n80\n00:30:22,738 --> 00:30:47,986\n獨優宣媒我有告訴您什麼時候嗎我們認為我們應該在因為第一波的這個國家大概應該都這樣接觸像日本他也接觸過了其他也接觸過了我們認為我們會爭取最優先的時間你們認為會是在什麼時候九月以後嗎九月以後九月以後九月以後就超過了九十天了九月之前當然之前\n\n81\n00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,824\n最後我還是要說不像美國低頭並不等於就該全面投降請你們堅持\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1670\t27006\t韓院長早安現在我們要先請園民會的主委曾主委麻煩請園民會備詢卓院長先休息一下但是呢也請你好好聽一下我對曾主委的質詢好嗎謝謝\n34329\t59455\t委員好曾志偉早安早在今年的3月12號您率領你的主管來我的辦公室做業務報告我看得出來您是有心要做事而且有心要改變但是很遺憾的是您身邊的幕僚恐怕正在拖累整個人民會因為他們做出很多錯誤的決策甚至還發布了一些問題百出的新聞\n60495\t84451\t而首先呢我現在要先跟你談的是我看到園民會的第一個問題就是人力流動率非常的驚人在新莊聯合辦公大樓的不僅僅只有園民會還有文化部跟治安署園民會呢你們有198名的正式人員短短的10個月裡面異動了45個人這將近四分之一耶\n85191\t111247\t我們對比文化部、職安署他們都是以內部升遷為主而原民會呢都是申請外調這高達了29個人超過了六成啊好可怕你看這個數據沒有而今年的1月行政院提出的霸凌案件報告裡面也大聲的疾呼要落實總統改變職產文化杜絕霸凌的政策指示\n111767\t127947\t要確保公務體系能夠健康的運作同時也承諾行政院院長要要求各機關全面清查是不是存在霸凌的行為並且要迅速調查跟依法處理請問主委原民會\n129208\t146689\t這麼多人的離開這代表園民會的職場環境是讓人待不下去的大家不是升遷而是紛紛的逃離請問一下你是不是有全面清查調查是不是有職場霸凌或者是管理上的問題好 謝謝委員的指教\n147458\t169857\t我要跟委員講 延民會的流動力這麼高 不是現在才有我來了以後才知道 因為延民會沒有宿舍那我們大部分都是從延鄉來的我們的族人甚至於他們在考試填字驗的時候 也不太喜歡填延民會因為這嚴重影響到他的生活主委 我在立法院已經23年了\n171698\t188092\t第一次園民會流動率那麼高您剛剛講的問題是長年存在的問題這十個月當中還不到一年所以你是不是在這邊承諾我要回去調查一下可不可以一個月之內給我一些你們調查的書面報告可以嗎可以\n189113\t216934\t好 謝謝現在我要跟你談業務執行你們荒腔走板的例子比比皆是我們就拿禁法補償這個問題來說去年本席在這兩次的院會執行裡面你一再的護航說禁法補償的公務與預算不足可以用綜合發展基金來支應可是事實是這樣嗎沒有 貴會提出的最佳預算的申請你們清楚的寫說\n218195\t232844\t需要将近24亿元而我在今年也查了三月份最新的报表我们的基金扣掉负债之后可以动用的现金剩不到14亿这是根本不够用的\n233624\t262119\t您知道嗎?但是沒關係主委您應該知道11月7號我們的行政院長他承諾他的錯誤他要用追加預算來補救淨法補償請問一下主委今年9月我們的族人可以如期領到一公頃6萬塊的淨法補償金嗎?謝謝 可以可以嗎?可以 我們有提出追加這個預算就是補足那個你已經提出追加預算了嘛但是院長已經核定了嗎?\n262864\t275431\t目前還沒有但是我相信院長會好謝謝您好希望您的回答院長聽到了我們再來看一下剛剛三讀通過的原民會組織法裡面有關族群委員無己職的議題原民會你們發新聞稿說\n280526\t304871\t族群委員名單不是主委你一個人的一舉一制之決定而是依照各界公推還有透過審查的結果實際上根本沒有公開推薦的程序啊絕大部分的族人也不清楚知道我們族群委員的功能是什麼最後我們看到的就是一片綠油油立委的助理國家養另外呢 族群委員的人事費\n305871\t335311\t我們希望他改聘正式的公務員的這個議題上原民會你們又發新聞稿說這個決議是沒有法律效力的沒有辦法實質保障主任的權益但是主委你看一下人事行政總署在1月6號發函給你們原民會要要求你們配合修法然後請你們評估人力的需求並且要循程序函報行政院\n335871\t342061\t主委这是你没有无视法律呢还是你的幕僚在欺骗你给你错误的讯息\n342796\t371224\t委員我跟妳報告因為刪除掉了這個族群委員那當然對我們的一些行政量能真的是沒有我現在跟你講的是我們刪除了這些無給值的這些預算之後把這個錢拿去改聘為正式的公務員而且我們的附帶決議也這麼說可是呢你們卻說這個是沒有法律效力的可是人事行政總署已經告訴你們啦要求你們配合啊\n371904\t393272\t主委所以你們真的實在是你要進入狀況我很擔心你的幕僚都在欺騙你啊不是欺騙啦委員我跟你講再來再來再來我們來看一下員警吧主席委員的這個聘任從以前就是這樣子的進行嘛主委主委人事總處已經告訴你了他是有法律效力的啦所以請你們園民會要配合修法看到了沒有\n393632\t418204\t我們也有配合請就說有一些我們希望已經請你配合修法了來再來我現在要跟你談的是原基法原基法在一百零四年徵訂了第二之一條要要求設置部落公法人可是呢民進黨執政這八年來申不出一個部落公法人現在你們園民會申出了一個叫做什麼公法人事辦計畫\n419505\t438927\t然後我們看到這個事辦計畫的草案目前規劃是每一個部落要給他一百萬人事費就佔了六成六十萬然後業務費佔了四成四十萬請問一下主委部落公法人事辦計畫是不是有限定部落的數額\n440849\t466959\t我跟委員報告為什麼要有事辦這個計畫因為我來之後我想講了這麼多年都沒有辦所以原住民的支持一直是停頓我希望說找幾個部落我們負責任的來找幾個部落為什麼要找這幾個部落是有原因的我們認為這個部落不管是村長代表部落會議的主席還有地方的核心幹部可以\n467608\t495741\t比較能夠有一些共識所以我們希望找這幾個部落做得成功之後讓其他的部落也來看主委我聽到您的說法了我覺得您的說法是沒有辦法說服族人的啦因為你們沒有公開說明沒有公開堆建沒有公開審查這是不是又是一個綠油有事半板然後呢部落應該是由下而上不應該有園民會你們密室圈定啊\n496281\t520200\t所以我在這邊要求你要公開決策公平然後建立民主參與跟資訊的透明機制讓全國七百多個部落都有公平競爭的機會畢竟人事費六十萬業務費四十萬這是一百萬不少的金額對部落的族人來說它會是另外一個人事的安排不是嗎我跟委員報告\n524903\t546398\t這確實不是利有有的部落啊那請問一下你現在核定的這些部落他們有公開說明嗎現在核定的部落有幾個我們有下去跟他們做溝通做說明啊我們700多個部落裡面你是怎麼樣公開跟大家來說呢部落是如何來跟你原民會申報計畫呢這些你都沒有說明啊好啦 接下來我要跟你談預算\n547679\t574871\t在114年度的预算里面原民会你们新闻稿又对外说什么对于推动族语教会的一亿一千万元的预算要采取冻结的措施这严重冲击到部落发展看到新闻稿我真的是摇头我觉得你们原民会是不是人格分裂了因为我们在提这份说明的时候这个提案的时候说明清清楚楚这反映的是基层的现况\n575451\t592043\t因为有族人跟我还有原民会的教文处反映相同的意见这个意见是什么就是针对推动落实族语生活化的执行意见我们看一下同样是执行落实族语生活化的族语保姆的政策\n592964\t611295\t他有非常嚴謹的查核機制還有訪視人員還有專管中心而主語教會沒有欸甚至連審查主語教會核銷的會計事務所他們都發出聲明這個聲明說什麼看一下非依照審計準則查核\n613120\t640707\t因此对上述各受奖励的单位也就是各教会的运作情形他的整体是不是允荡表达什么不提供任何程度的确信主委您看一下连会计事务所他们都不甘帮圆明会跟教会背书了这里面是不是有很大的问题啊所以呢本席就跟教文处一起开会我们做出了结论\n641387\t666149\t我們把這些預算先暫時凍結然後來修訂原住民族語言發展補助辦法然後把族語教會族語保姆語推組織等等這些團體或者是個人未來他都可以申請到原民會的經費補助而且很重要的是不受年限的限制主委你應該知道族語教會的政策是根據\n667610\t695667\t國家語言整體發展方案這五年計畫 對吧到116年就沒有主語教會的政策了耶所以我們修訂這個辦法就是為了未來我們主語推廣的政策可以更擴大適用對象並且要常態性的補助沒有年限的我跟委員報告你難道不支持嗎我們改過這個補助的辦法一樣的教會也要循這個辦法來\n697988\t721056\t這正是我要跟您說的很好主委您是支持的因為這個新版原住民族語言發展補助辦法就在4月17號的時候已經按照我們所謂的解凍條件已經修正發布了嘛對不對所以可見本席這個提案是有正當理由的我們不是在為難你們機關\n722737\t749131\t如今呢你們也已經辦理完成事項了但是主委解凍報告還沒有送到立法院主委你當初都說了凍結這個案會衝擊不過可是現在可以解凍了可是現在已經可以解凍了很快就會提出來我們現在再整理可是你的意見好像跟行政院長不太一樣\n749551\t753633\t同樣是114年的預算我要現在跟你談的是南島民主論壇的問題更是離譜了\n773240\t801446\t南岛民主論壇從109年到114年這是總共六年計劃所以從109年到113年已經花費了我們的公務預算2.2億也是佔全部公務預算的2.5億的九成所以我之前就請人民會請你們提出效益的分析你們給我的報告裡面最重要的成果是什麼華西巴黎的音樂祭對吧\n802230\t826544\t我仔細一看 華西巴黎的音樂劇根本不是用南島民族論壇的經費啊你們怎麼可以這麼樣的一花接木的這樣子提出報告啊 主委然後你的新聞稿又講什麼刪除預算勢必會嚴重打擊國際信任度跟外交處境請問一下圓圓會 你們是外交部嗎\n827484\t850097\t還是說外交部他們連邦交都顧不好然後要拜託你們去做我還沒請你回答主委我要問你我要問你南島民主論壇到底創造了多少部落的工作機會為族人帶來了多少經濟效益你要不要再跟我講巴西瓦里喔巴西瓦里不是用這筆預算喔\n851360\t878118\t我跟妳報告 這幾年來我們跟南島 特別是南島語系的不管是帛琉 不管是土豪魯 不管是馬紹爾我們原住民對國家有貢獻請問對部落造成了多少的工作機會然後多少的經濟效益我們花了這麼多錢總是要有一些經濟效益啊\n878618\t894336\t我也有跟你們講我們很多這些國家的留學生在台灣甚至於很多的大使來我們都請到部落去讓他們真正的感受到原住民的部落是什麼樣的狀況帶來了多少經濟效應這個部分是外交部做不到的\n894876\t896797\t那些南島國家是我們自己的弟兄姊妹\n915981\t933449\t主委你不是外交部你是園民會我們幫得上外交部的忙我覺得原住民很驕傲不要在這邊辯解了你不是外交部你是園民會再來園民會今年的預算是不是增加13億我們是不是根本沒有刪你們的基本設施維持費\n934349\t947177\t基本設施維持費沒有刪預算增加基本設施費也沒有刪可是呢你們園民會竟然發公文恐嚇我們鄉鎮市公所說看一下\n948485\t977135\t補助項目要先凍結50%要回收重新核定重新調整預算結構後續要滾動調整主委你知道嗎基本設施維持費是本席在立法院這23年來替原鄉的鄉長爭取的另外的預算你們現在說要凍結50%然後要收回要全部要重新滾動調整請問一下你們為什麼要這麼做\n978305\t987736\t委員我跟你講即便是刪 即便是動了預算有關這些我們社府的一些經費就是補助一些弱勢團體的從來沒有斷過但是這個基本設施費\n993624\t1015854\t是公所的一些基本設施的一些維持沒有做好立法院沒有刪除你們這筆預算啊那你們為什麼要公然的發公文給原鄉的公署我們要終結預算啊我們要終結預算來看就是說也很誠懇的跟公司講請你們按照科目我們不是刪掉請你們按照科目先50%而已嘛我們沒有刪也沒有凍結你憑什麼要凍結鄉公所的這50%預算好我們現在我要再問您\n1023188\t1037597\t我們根本沒有刪這個預算 原民會的預算也增加了13億你們也不斷的發新聞稿 向我們的國人說推廣原住民族政策 編列的政策宣導費用3696萬元也遭到我們在野黨全數刪除該會未來就沒有辦法透過媒體來傳遞相關政策的資訊\n1048443\t1075625\t導致族人錯失重要的權益請問族委我們沒有園民台嗎園民台每年拿我們人民納稅錢五億卻沒有辦法傳遞資訊嗎而你們園民會的錯誤宣導只會混淆視聽散佈錯誤的資訊預算明明是增加的你們卻還趕預算不夠然後你們一邊又花大錢散佈假消息這樣的園民會族人能夠接受嗎你們這樣子胡搞小搞難道\n1076886\t1097633\t立法委員不應該好好監督你們嗎然後我們再看到原民會你們惡意散佈假消息之後民進黨的側翼就接著混淆視聽了請問主委台大園圖中心今年度流標是因為禁法補償的關係還是因為財化法的關係你知道嗎民進黨的側翼一直講是因為禁法補償和財化法的關係\n1099213\t1121567\t看一下公文原民會1月23號回文告訴我台大沿途中心的流標是因為常年入管人士效益不彰再加上推廣活動另外外包辦理這導致招標金額比去年少請問是你說謊還是民進黨的側翼者說謊現在給你機會來澄清你講的這個本來是在台大來做\n1124412\t1136045\t你已經回文給我了啦是因為他的入管人事效益不彰嘛所以不是禁法補償跟財化法的關係嘛對嗎好 謝謝現在我要再跟你談財政劃分授之法\n1140129\t1153141\t你們的新聞稿說財政劃分修正影響了運作更將會嚴重衝擊援助民族的地區鄉鎮區公所的財政跟地方建設的發展請問一下財政收支劃分法修了哪幾條\n1155542\t1167777\t這個我所知道的財政收支方法如果修了幾條你連修了幾條都講不出來然後精算的結果會影響多少原鄉的這些財政你都不知道會影響公所的財政啊\n1170640\t1193677\t我問過主計總署 主計總署告訴我 園民會的預估只是可能延伸的情形 不是實際的狀況你連修了哪幾條也沒有辦法講出實際狀況你還要恐嚇主委主委這是你應該做的事情嗎那你知道我提的財化法是要求行政院額外找到支持園鄉的薰球請問你支持我的修法嗎\n1194677\t1204710\t額外給縣市政府...你不用轉了啦,謝謝我請卓院長如果我們的額度一樣封鎖,不一定能夠...時間暫停一下好不好,謝謝麻煩請卓院長背信我現在請卓院長\n1212915\t1233849\t主委你要更加努力我知道你很認真但是你有一些幕僚真的在欺騙你請問一下院長你剛剛看到了我舉了那麼多園民會的問題它是嚴重失能而且人力流失非常的嚴重人事混亂決策錯誤假消息是滿天飛\n1234870\t1245575\t我在這邊要求你責成園民會一個月之內調查我們人員外流的原因然後整頓人事團隊並且要停止散發誤導性的新聞稿 可以嗎\n1248944\t1264766\t請主委能夠一個月內調查人員外流的原因同時對這個會內的人事團隊要做精神上的鼓勵那麼有沒有發布誤導性的新聞可以檢討沒有的話要向委員說明\n1265086\t1288787\t好謝謝院長我要問你的就是金髮補償的問題在9月行政院遭到外界的批判了之後花了49天你們認錯不救了現在呢114年度的總預算也已經公佈原民會的追加預算也已經送到你的行政院了院長請問一下追加預算什麼時候會送進立法院金髮補償這一個\n1291235\t1311581\t預算不夠的問題我們經過朝野黨團在行政院裡面溝通協調才達成共識並不是行政院認錯我們是協商主任最關心的是到底能不能夠在九月份的時候領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金跟委員報告現在我們針對\n1312847\t1335130\t因美國這個關稅的調整世界貿易重整我們現在這個階段第一要向國人提出的是我們未來在這個禮拜之內要提出的特別條例跟特別預算我問您的是我的族人能不能拿到一公頃六萬塊看一下這不只是影響族人權益喔還關係到你們政黨某位立法委員的政治承諾喔請您聽一下\n1345455\t1364802\t請問院長這很嚴重耶請問一下九月份到底族人能不能領到一公頃六萬塊的補償因為剛剛族委說可以領得到我們在處理特別條例特別預算之後我們會統合整個今年度的總預算到底被刪減的數字該怎麼處理之後一併就整體的最佳預算送出\n1365970\t1370337\t請問一下監察院已經針對預算提出釋憲了行政院要跟進嗎\n1371668\t1400438\t這一定會對預算案跟財劃法所以我問候主席總書行政院一旦跟進並且憲法法庭財準暫時處分就無法處理追加預算即便剛剛我們考慮用綜合發展基金可是看一下到三月底可以動用的現金不到14億遠遠沒有辦法支應24億的預算缺口我再問你一次請你正面的回答我的族人九月份到底能不能領到\n1401218\t1422108\t一公頃六萬塊的補償金如果行政院對預算案跟裁劃法提出釋憲如果提出釋憲也併同暫時處分的話影響的就不只是這十四億二十四億而已所以到底能不能領到我們會努力在特別預算特別條例特別預算之後和現在\n1423629\t1446572\t立法院向校行政院自行刪除的部分現在還沒有辦法刪除所以到底能不能領到剛剛主委說可以領到你們的執政黨的委員說如果沒有領到他要辭職我要請院長記住不論是你也好還是剛剛那位執政黨的立法委員我們的族人如果不能夠在九月份如期領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金的話\n1448033\t1467724\t後果你們要自己承擔喔也請你們負起責任接下來我要講的是當前世界上最重要的事情也是台灣人民最關心的那就是美國對等關稅的議題從4月2號到現在政府團隊在應對對等關稅這件事情上你們不但錯估形勢而且手忙腳亂\n1468684\t1486816\t你們也沒有做好最好的準備做最壞的打算你們只知道盲目的順從美國的政府的號令比起民進黨政府被動的被川普吃乾媽勁我覺得新加坡總理黃巡柴先生的態度更令我尊敬看一下黃總理他在4月8號國會發言的時候他說\n1489218\t1514598\t对于美国宣布向新加坡征收10%的对等关税他感到失望他说新美有深厚的友谊这不是对朋友应该有的行为他还说美国只着重于货物贸易但是实际上美国跟许多服务贸易伙伴都保持着顺差美国向世界出口软体服务\n1515118\t1539505\t教育 娱乐 金融和商业服务等等我们可以看到尽管新加坡政府他也宣布了不在对等关税上面来报复美国但是黄总理他不卑不亢他诚恳说了实话他为什么呢我们民进党你们就不能够对这个所谓的坚弱磐石的朋友表示失望\n1540245\t1560592\t你們為什麼不能夠用朋友的道義來要求美國呢而這樣的友誼難道不該懷疑嗎我在這五年來我一直對美國的對台政策跟你們發出警示我們為什麼要開放萊豬進口我們為什麼要放寬美國農藥殘留量的管制\n1561252\t1586566\t我们为什么要接受美国提出来的台湾学人法案然后让美国官员到我们政府工作我们为什么要签署那个对我们贸易谈判根本非常不利的台美贸易倡议我们为什么要把九成以上的外汇存顶大把大把的去买美债而我的这些疑问其实呢总结起来就是一句话\n1587446\t1611662\t一昧的依靠美国就是死路一条但是纵使我说了这么多可是民进党政府你们就是不听美国政府说什么民进党政府你们就做什么你们还贴飘签说我是以美论结果呢川普政府现在所做的行为在我们看来就是以美啊\n1612623\t1641602\t還原美國是必要的因為只有這樣我們才能夠獨立自主的做出最有利於人民的判斷這一次的對等關稅對台灣人民來說是災難而我們的賴總統卻要人民吃苦當吃補院長不向美國報復並不等於就該全面投降您認為呢台灣當然不會向任何一個國家投降包括美國包括中國在內\n1642950\t1658982\t但是我們對於川普總統的新的關稅政策我們在4月4號的記者會當中我們就說過了這是一個不合理的計算公式我們一定會提出嚴正的反應很好 我們都說過了4月4號但是呢 我們賴總統\n1660223\t1677074\t他已經把底線都告訴了美國我們不會採取報復的證據在4月15號的時候有委員質詢你政府是不是有考慮要加碼持有美戰你說內部是有準備的我們任何選項都有討論不一定採行這樣的方式看一下最近外傳\n1677994\t1701145\t美国可能要逼迫美债的债权人将所持有的美债换成一百年期的临时债券针对这件事情中央银行总裁杨金龙他也回应说如果真的是这么样的转换那就相当是美债的倒债了那您之前有说关于加码持有美债政府内部有准备请问是准备什么\n1701525\t1721119\t是加碼呢 還是轉換呢應該更正 我說我們任何的選項都在我到底會不會要現在問你的是美債的問題對 它也當然是一個選項你們是加碼還是轉換我們在我們的方案裡面如果沒有提出來那就是不是我們的方案所以你認為購買美債再加碼美債不是你們的方案\n1721804\t1745216\t這是一個選項,但是我們如果最後重整沒有提出來,那就是不是我們選舉的內容。好啦,我要在這裡告訴您的是,院長,不管是加碼還是轉換,結果都是楊金龍總裁他所說的,倒在。而經過川普這麼樣的震撼教育,台灣全民其實都聰明了,大家都在看,也都在等。\n1746328\t1765726\t不是您在這邊一直三言兩語撥開重點在這邊打詢的態度我想台灣人民現在正面臨的是生死存亡的大事所以我們是要非常嚴肅的看待這樣的事情我們非常嚴肅\n1766807\t1791103\t我們也從4月4號提出的9個面向20項措施當中也告訴國人我們對產業的支持所以我們先前是有準備的我們也提升了那我們現在的策略是備妥所有的協調談判的方案內容隨時準備啟動在第一次的正式視訊會議之後隨時準備下一次任何形式的談判請問第一次視訊會議你們的結論是什麼\n1793665\t1821463\t我們說過了雙方對於對等關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及包括出口管制在內的多項議題都進行了交換意見現在我們要把這些意見重整之後等待下一次應該很快就會到來跟美方進行的談判第二次談判會是什麼時候這個因為美方還要針對很多的國家但是我敢跟委員說我們已經是在優先的國家行列當中多優先很優先\n1822738\t1847986\t獨優宣媒我有告訴您什麼時候嗎我們認為我們應該在因為第一波的這個國家大概應該都這樣接觸像日本他也接觸過了其他也接觸過了我們認為我們會爭取最優先的時間你們認為會是在什麼時候九月以後嗎九月以後九月以後九月以後就超過了九十天了九月之前當然之前\n1850000\t1854824\t最後我還是要說不像美國低頭並不等於就該全面投降請你們堅持\n","txt":"韓院長早安現在我們要先請園民會的主委曾主委麻煩請園民會備詢卓院長先休息一下但是呢也請你好好聽一下我對曾主委的質詢好嗎謝謝\n委員好曾志偉早安早在今年的3月12號您率領你的主管來我的辦公室做業務報告我看得出來您是有心要做事而且有心要改變但是很遺憾的是您身邊的幕僚恐怕正在拖累整個人民會因為他們做出很多錯誤的決策甚至還發布了一些問題百出的新聞\n而首先呢我現在要先跟你談的是我看到園民會的第一個問題就是人力流動率非常的驚人在新莊聯合辦公大樓的不僅僅只有園民會還有文化部跟治安署園民會呢你們有198名的正式人員短短的10個月裡面異動了45個人這將近四分之一耶\n我們對比文化部、職安署他們都是以內部升遷為主而原民會呢都是申請外調這高達了29個人超過了六成啊好可怕你看這個數據沒有而今年的1月行政院提出的霸凌案件報告裡面也大聲的疾呼要落實總統改變職產文化杜絕霸凌的政策指示\n要確保公務體系能夠健康的運作同時也承諾行政院院長要要求各機關全面清查是不是存在霸凌的行為並且要迅速調查跟依法處理請問主委原民會\n這麼多人的離開這代表園民會的職場環境是讓人待不下去的大家不是升遷而是紛紛的逃離請問一下你是不是有全面清查調查是不是有職場霸凌或者是管理上的問題好 謝謝委員的指教\n我要跟委員講 延民會的流動力這麼高 不是現在才有我來了以後才知道 因為延民會沒有宿舍那我們大部分都是從延鄉來的我們的族人甚至於他們在考試填字驗的時候 也不太喜歡填延民會因為這嚴重影響到他的生活主委 我在立法院已經23年了\n第一次園民會流動率那麼高您剛剛講的問題是長年存在的問題這十個月當中還不到一年所以你是不是在這邊承諾我要回去調查一下可不可以一個月之內給我一些你們調查的書面報告可以嗎可以\n好 謝謝現在我要跟你談業務執行你們荒腔走板的例子比比皆是我們就拿禁法補償這個問題來說去年本席在這兩次的院會執行裡面你一再的護航說禁法補償的公務與預算不足可以用綜合發展基金來支應可是事實是這樣嗎沒有 貴會提出的最佳預算的申請你們清楚的寫說\n需要将近24亿元而我在今年也查了三月份最新的报表我们的基金扣掉负债之后可以动用的现金剩不到14亿这是根本不够用的\n您知道嗎?但是沒關係主委您應該知道11月7號我們的行政院長他承諾他的錯誤他要用追加預算來補救淨法補償請問一下主委今年9月我們的族人可以如期領到一公頃6萬塊的淨法補償金嗎?謝謝 可以可以嗎?可以 我們有提出追加這個預算就是補足那個你已經提出追加預算了嘛但是院長已經核定了嗎?\n目前還沒有但是我相信院長會好謝謝您好希望您的回答院長聽到了我們再來看一下剛剛三讀通過的原民會組織法裡面有關族群委員無己職的議題原民會你們發新聞稿說\n族群委員名單不是主委你一個人的一舉一制之決定而是依照各界公推還有透過審查的結果實際上根本沒有公開推薦的程序啊絕大部分的族人也不清楚知道我們族群委員的功能是什麼最後我們看到的就是一片綠油油立委的助理國家養另外呢 族群委員的人事費\n我們希望他改聘正式的公務員的這個議題上原民會你們又發新聞稿說這個決議是沒有法律效力的沒有辦法實質保障主任的權益但是主委你看一下人事行政總署在1月6號發函給你們原民會要要求你們配合修法然後請你們評估人力的需求並且要循程序函報行政院\n主委这是你没有无视法律呢还是你的幕僚在欺骗你给你错误的讯息\n委員我跟妳報告因為刪除掉了這個族群委員那當然對我們的一些行政量能真的是沒有我現在跟你講的是我們刪除了這些無給值的這些預算之後把這個錢拿去改聘為正式的公務員而且我們的附帶決議也這麼說可是呢你們卻說這個是沒有法律效力的可是人事行政總署已經告訴你們啦要求你們配合啊\n主委所以你們真的實在是你要進入狀況我很擔心你的幕僚都在欺騙你啊不是欺騙啦委員我跟你講再來再來再來我們來看一下員警吧主席委員的這個聘任從以前就是這樣子的進行嘛主委主委人事總處已經告訴你了他是有法律效力的啦所以請你們園民會要配合修法看到了沒有\n我們也有配合請就說有一些我們希望已經請你配合修法了來再來我現在要跟你談的是原基法原基法在一百零四年徵訂了第二之一條要要求設置部落公法人可是呢民進黨執政這八年來申不出一個部落公法人現在你們園民會申出了一個叫做什麼公法人事辦計畫\n然後我們看到這個事辦計畫的草案目前規劃是每一個部落要給他一百萬人事費就佔了六成六十萬然後業務費佔了四成四十萬請問一下主委部落公法人事辦計畫是不是有限定部落的數額\n我跟委員報告為什麼要有事辦這個計畫因為我來之後我想講了這麼多年都沒有辦所以原住民的支持一直是停頓我希望說找幾個部落我們負責任的來找幾個部落為什麼要找這幾個部落是有原因的我們認為這個部落不管是村長代表部落會議的主席還有地方的核心幹部可以\n比較能夠有一些共識所以我們希望找這幾個部落做得成功之後讓其他的部落也來看主委我聽到您的說法了我覺得您的說法是沒有辦法說服族人的啦因為你們沒有公開說明沒有公開堆建沒有公開審查這是不是又是一個綠油有事半板然後呢部落應該是由下而上不應該有園民會你們密室圈定啊\n所以我在這邊要求你要公開決策公平然後建立民主參與跟資訊的透明機制讓全國七百多個部落都有公平競爭的機會畢竟人事費六十萬業務費四十萬這是一百萬不少的金額對部落的族人來說它會是另外一個人事的安排不是嗎我跟委員報告\n這確實不是利有有的部落啊那請問一下你現在核定的這些部落他們有公開說明嗎現在核定的部落有幾個我們有下去跟他們做溝通做說明啊我們700多個部落裡面你是怎麼樣公開跟大家來說呢部落是如何來跟你原民會申報計畫呢這些你都沒有說明啊好啦 接下來我要跟你談預算\n在114年度的预算里面原民会你们新闻稿又对外说什么对于推动族语教会的一亿一千万元的预算要采取冻结的措施这严重冲击到部落发展看到新闻稿我真的是摇头我觉得你们原民会是不是人格分裂了因为我们在提这份说明的时候这个提案的时候说明清清楚楚这反映的是基层的现况\n因为有族人跟我还有原民会的教文处反映相同的意见这个意见是什么就是针对推动落实族语生活化的执行意见我们看一下同样是执行落实族语生活化的族语保姆的政策\n他有非常嚴謹的查核機制還有訪視人員還有專管中心而主語教會沒有欸甚至連審查主語教會核銷的會計事務所他們都發出聲明這個聲明說什麼看一下非依照審計準則查核\n因此对上述各受奖励的单位也就是各教会的运作情形他的整体是不是允荡表达什么不提供任何程度的确信主委您看一下连会计事务所他们都不甘帮圆明会跟教会背书了这里面是不是有很大的问题啊所以呢本席就跟教文处一起开会我们做出了结论\n我們把這些預算先暫時凍結然後來修訂原住民族語言發展補助辦法然後把族語教會族語保姆語推組織等等這些團體或者是個人未來他都可以申請到原民會的經費補助而且很重要的是不受年限的限制主委你應該知道族語教會的政策是根據\n國家語言整體發展方案這五年計畫 對吧到116年就沒有主語教會的政策了耶所以我們修訂這個辦法就是為了未來我們主語推廣的政策可以更擴大適用對象並且要常態性的補助沒有年限的我跟委員報告你難道不支持嗎我們改過這個補助的辦法一樣的教會也要循這個辦法來\n這正是我要跟您說的很好主委您是支持的因為這個新版原住民族語言發展補助辦法就在4月17號的時候已經按照我們所謂的解凍條件已經修正發布了嘛對不對所以可見本席這個提案是有正當理由的我們不是在為難你們機關\n如今呢你們也已經辦理完成事項了但是主委解凍報告還沒有送到立法院主委你當初都說了凍結這個案會衝擊不過可是現在可以解凍了可是現在已經可以解凍了很快就會提出來我們現在再整理可是你的意見好像跟行政院長不太一樣\n同樣是114年的預算我要現在跟你談的是南島民主論壇的問題更是離譜了\n南岛民主論壇從109年到114年這是總共六年計劃所以從109年到113年已經花費了我們的公務預算2.2億也是佔全部公務預算的2.5億的九成所以我之前就請人民會請你們提出效益的分析你們給我的報告裡面最重要的成果是什麼華西巴黎的音樂祭對吧\n我仔細一看 華西巴黎的音樂劇根本不是用南島民族論壇的經費啊你們怎麼可以這麼樣的一花接木的這樣子提出報告啊 主委然後你的新聞稿又講什麼刪除預算勢必會嚴重打擊國際信任度跟外交處境請問一下圓圓會 你們是外交部嗎\n還是說外交部他們連邦交都顧不好然後要拜託你們去做我還沒請你回答主委我要問你我要問你南島民主論壇到底創造了多少部落的工作機會為族人帶來了多少經濟效益你要不要再跟我講巴西瓦里喔巴西瓦里不是用這筆預算喔\n我跟妳報告 這幾年來我們跟南島 特別是南島語系的不管是帛琉 不管是土豪魯 不管是馬紹爾我們原住民對國家有貢獻請問對部落造成了多少的工作機會然後多少的經濟效益我們花了這麼多錢總是要有一些經濟效益啊\n我也有跟你們講我們很多這些國家的留學生在台灣甚至於很多的大使來我們都請到部落去讓他們真正的感受到原住民的部落是什麼樣的狀況帶來了多少經濟效應這個部分是外交部做不到的\n那些南島國家是我們自己的弟兄姊妹\n主委你不是外交部你是園民會我們幫得上外交部的忙我覺得原住民很驕傲不要在這邊辯解了你不是外交部你是園民會再來園民會今年的預算是不是增加13億我們是不是根本沒有刪你們的基本設施維持費\n基本設施維持費沒有刪預算增加基本設施費也沒有刪可是呢你們園民會竟然發公文恐嚇我們鄉鎮市公所說看一下\n補助項目要先凍結50%要回收重新核定重新調整預算結構後續要滾動調整主委你知道嗎基本設施維持費是本席在立法院這23年來替原鄉的鄉長爭取的另外的預算你們現在說要凍結50%然後要收回要全部要重新滾動調整請問一下你們為什麼要這麼做\n委員我跟你講即便是刪 即便是動了預算有關這些我們社府的一些經費就是補助一些弱勢團體的從來沒有斷過但是這個基本設施費\n是公所的一些基本設施的一些維持沒有做好立法院沒有刪除你們這筆預算啊那你們為什麼要公然的發公文給原鄉的公署我們要終結預算啊我們要終結預算來看就是說也很誠懇的跟公司講請你們按照科目我們不是刪掉請你們按照科目先50%而已嘛我們沒有刪也沒有凍結你憑什麼要凍結鄉公所的這50%預算好我們現在我要再問您\n我們根本沒有刪這個預算 原民會的預算也增加了13億你們也不斷的發新聞稿 向我們的國人說推廣原住民族政策 編列的政策宣導費用3696萬元也遭到我們在野黨全數刪除該會未來就沒有辦法透過媒體來傳遞相關政策的資訊\n導致族人錯失重要的權益請問族委我們沒有園民台嗎園民台每年拿我們人民納稅錢五億卻沒有辦法傳遞資訊嗎而你們園民會的錯誤宣導只會混淆視聽散佈錯誤的資訊預算明明是增加的你們卻還趕預算不夠然後你們一邊又花大錢散佈假消息這樣的園民會族人能夠接受嗎你們這樣子胡搞小搞難道\n立法委員不應該好好監督你們嗎然後我們再看到原民會你們惡意散佈假消息之後民進黨的側翼就接著混淆視聽了請問主委台大園圖中心今年度流標是因為禁法補償的關係還是因為財化法的關係你知道嗎民進黨的側翼一直講是因為禁法補償和財化法的關係\n看一下公文原民會1月23號回文告訴我台大沿途中心的流標是因為常年入管人士效益不彰再加上推廣活動另外外包辦理這導致招標金額比去年少請問是你說謊還是民進黨的側翼者說謊現在給你機會來澄清你講的這個本來是在台大來做\n你已經回文給我了啦是因為他的入管人事效益不彰嘛所以不是禁法補償跟財化法的關係嘛對嗎好 謝謝現在我要再跟你談財政劃分授之法\n你們的新聞稿說財政劃分修正影響了運作更將會嚴重衝擊援助民族的地區鄉鎮區公所的財政跟地方建設的發展請問一下財政收支劃分法修了哪幾條\n這個我所知道的財政收支方法如果修了幾條你連修了幾條都講不出來然後精算的結果會影響多少原鄉的這些財政你都不知道會影響公所的財政啊\n我問過主計總署 主計總署告訴我 園民會的預估只是可能延伸的情形 不是實際的狀況你連修了哪幾條也沒有辦法講出實際狀況你還要恐嚇主委主委這是你應該做的事情嗎那你知道我提的財化法是要求行政院額外找到支持園鄉的薰球請問你支持我的修法嗎\n額外給縣市政府...你不用轉了啦,謝謝我請卓院長如果我們的額度一樣封鎖,不一定能夠...時間暫停一下好不好,謝謝麻煩請卓院長背信我現在請卓院長\n主委你要更加努力我知道你很認真但是你有一些幕僚真的在欺騙你請問一下院長你剛剛看到了我舉了那麼多園民會的問題它是嚴重失能而且人力流失非常的嚴重人事混亂決策錯誤假消息是滿天飛\n我在這邊要求你責成園民會一個月之內調查我們人員外流的原因然後整頓人事團隊並且要停止散發誤導性的新聞稿 可以嗎\n請主委能夠一個月內調查人員外流的原因同時對這個會內的人事團隊要做精神上的鼓勵那麼有沒有發布誤導性的新聞可以檢討沒有的話要向委員說明\n好謝謝院長我要問你的就是金髮補償的問題在9月行政院遭到外界的批判了之後花了49天你們認錯不救了現在呢114年度的總預算也已經公佈原民會的追加預算也已經送到你的行政院了院長請問一下追加預算什麼時候會送進立法院金髮補償這一個\n預算不夠的問題我們經過朝野黨團在行政院裡面溝通協調才達成共識並不是行政院認錯我們是協商主任最關心的是到底能不能夠在九月份的時候領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金跟委員報告現在我們針對\n因美國這個關稅的調整世界貿易重整我們現在這個階段第一要向國人提出的是我們未來在這個禮拜之內要提出的特別條例跟特別預算我問您的是我的族人能不能拿到一公頃六萬塊看一下這不只是影響族人權益喔還關係到你們政黨某位立法委員的政治承諾喔請您聽一下\n請問院長這很嚴重耶請問一下九月份到底族人能不能領到一公頃六萬塊的補償因為剛剛族委說可以領得到我們在處理特別條例特別預算之後我們會統合整個今年度的總預算到底被刪減的數字該怎麼處理之後一併就整體的最佳預算送出\n請問一下監察院已經針對預算提出釋憲了行政院要跟進嗎\n這一定會對預算案跟財劃法所以我問候主席總書行政院一旦跟進並且憲法法庭財準暫時處分就無法處理追加預算即便剛剛我們考慮用綜合發展基金可是看一下到三月底可以動用的現金不到14億遠遠沒有辦法支應24億的預算缺口我再問你一次請你正面的回答我的族人九月份到底能不能領到\n一公頃六萬塊的補償金如果行政院對預算案跟裁劃法提出釋憲如果提出釋憲也併同暫時處分的話影響的就不只是這十四億二十四億而已所以到底能不能領到我們會努力在特別預算特別條例特別預算之後和現在\n立法院向校行政院自行刪除的部分現在還沒有辦法刪除所以到底能不能領到剛剛主委說可以領到你們的執政黨的委員說如果沒有領到他要辭職我要請院長記住不論是你也好還是剛剛那位執政黨的立法委員我們的族人如果不能夠在九月份如期領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金的話\n後果你們要自己承擔喔也請你們負起責任接下來我要講的是當前世界上最重要的事情也是台灣人民最關心的那就是美國對等關稅的議題從4月2號到現在政府團隊在應對對等關稅這件事情上你們不但錯估形勢而且手忙腳亂\n你們也沒有做好最好的準備做最壞的打算你們只知道盲目的順從美國的政府的號令比起民進黨政府被動的被川普吃乾媽勁我覺得新加坡總理黃巡柴先生的態度更令我尊敬看一下黃總理他在4月8號國會發言的時候他說\n对于美国宣布向新加坡征收10%的对等关税他感到失望他说新美有深厚的友谊这不是对朋友应该有的行为他还说美国只着重于货物贸易但是实际上美国跟许多服务贸易伙伴都保持着顺差美国向世界出口软体服务\n教育 娱乐 金融和商业服务等等我们可以看到尽管新加坡政府他也宣布了不在对等关税上面来报复美国但是黄总理他不卑不亢他诚恳说了实话他为什么呢我们民进党你们就不能够对这个所谓的坚弱磐石的朋友表示失望\n你們為什麼不能夠用朋友的道義來要求美國呢而這樣的友誼難道不該懷疑嗎我在這五年來我一直對美國的對台政策跟你們發出警示我們為什麼要開放萊豬進口我們為什麼要放寬美國農藥殘留量的管制\n我们为什么要接受美国提出来的台湾学人法案然后让美国官员到我们政府工作我们为什么要签署那个对我们贸易谈判根本非常不利的台美贸易倡议我们为什么要把九成以上的外汇存顶大把大把的去买美债而我的这些疑问其实呢总结起来就是一句话\n一昧的依靠美国就是死路一条但是纵使我说了这么多可是民进党政府你们就是不听美国政府说什么民进党政府你们就做什么你们还贴飘签说我是以美论结果呢川普政府现在所做的行为在我们看来就是以美啊\n還原美國是必要的因為只有這樣我們才能夠獨立自主的做出最有利於人民的判斷這一次的對等關稅對台灣人民來說是災難而我們的賴總統卻要人民吃苦當吃補院長不向美國報復並不等於就該全面投降您認為呢台灣當然不會向任何一個國家投降包括美國包括中國在內\n但是我們對於川普總統的新的關稅政策我們在4月4號的記者會當中我們就說過了這是一個不合理的計算公式我們一定會提出嚴正的反應很好 我們都說過了4月4號但是呢 我們賴總統\n他已經把底線都告訴了美國我們不會採取報復的證據在4月15號的時候有委員質詢你政府是不是有考慮要加碼持有美戰你說內部是有準備的我們任何選項都有討論不一定採行這樣的方式看一下最近外傳\n美国可能要逼迫美债的债权人将所持有的美债换成一百年期的临时债券针对这件事情中央银行总裁杨金龙他也回应说如果真的是这么样的转换那就相当是美债的倒债了那您之前有说关于加码持有美债政府内部有准备请问是准备什么\n是加碼呢 還是轉換呢應該更正 我說我們任何的選項都在我到底會不會要現在問你的是美債的問題對 它也當然是一個選項你們是加碼還是轉換我們在我們的方案裡面如果沒有提出來那就是不是我們的方案所以你認為購買美債再加碼美債不是你們的方案\n這是一個選項,但是我們如果最後重整沒有提出來,那就是不是我們選舉的內容。好啦,我要在這裡告訴您的是,院長,不管是加碼還是轉換,結果都是楊金龍總裁他所說的,倒在。而經過川普這麼樣的震撼教育,台灣全民其實都聰明了,大家都在看,也都在等。\n不是您在這邊一直三言兩語撥開重點在這邊打詢的態度我想台灣人民現在正面臨的是生死存亡的大事所以我們是要非常嚴肅的看待這樣的事情我們非常嚴肅\n我們也從4月4號提出的9個面向20項措施當中也告訴國人我們對產業的支持所以我們先前是有準備的我們也提升了那我們現在的策略是備妥所有的協調談判的方案內容隨時準備啟動在第一次的正式視訊會議之後隨時準備下一次任何形式的談判請問第一次視訊會議你們的結論是什麼\n我們說過了雙方對於對等關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及包括出口管制在內的多項議題都進行了交換意見現在我們要把這些意見重整之後等待下一次應該很快就會到來跟美方進行的談判第二次談判會是什麼時候這個因為美方還要針對很多的國家但是我敢跟委員說我們已經是在優先的國家行列當中多優先很優先\n獨優宣媒我有告訴您什麼時候嗎我們認為我們應該在因為第一波的這個國家大概應該都這樣接觸像日本他也接觸過了其他也接觸過了我們認為我們會爭取最優先的時間你們認為會是在什麼時候九月以後嗎九月以後九月以後九月以後就超過了九十天了九月之前當然之前\n最後我還是要說不像美國低頭並不等於就該全面投降請你們堅持\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.670 --> 00:27.006\n韓院長早安現在我們要先請園民會的主委曾主委麻煩請園民會備詢卓院長先休息一下但是呢也請你好好聽一下我對曾主委的質詢好嗎謝謝\n\n00:34.329 --> 00:59.455\n委員好曾志偉早安早在今年的3月12號您率領你的主管來我的辦公室做業務報告我看得出來您是有心要做事而且有心要改變但是很遺憾的是您身邊的幕僚恐怕正在拖累整個人民會因為他們做出很多錯誤的決策甚至還發布了一些問題百出的新聞\n\n01:00.495 --> 01:24.451\n而首先呢我現在要先跟你談的是我看到園民會的第一個問題就是人力流動率非常的驚人在新莊聯合辦公大樓的不僅僅只有園民會還有文化部跟治安署園民會呢你們有198名的正式人員短短的10個月裡面異動了45個人這將近四分之一耶\n\n01:25.191 --> 01:51.247\n我們對比文化部、職安署他們都是以內部升遷為主而原民會呢都是申請外調這高達了29個人超過了六成啊好可怕你看這個數據沒有而今年的1月行政院提出的霸凌案件報告裡面也大聲的疾呼要落實總統改變職產文化杜絕霸凌的政策指示\n\n01:51.767 --> 02:07.947\n要確保公務體系能夠健康的運作同時也承諾行政院院長要要求各機關全面清查是不是存在霸凌的行為並且要迅速調查跟依法處理請問主委原民會\n\n02:09.208 --> 02:26.689\n這麼多人的離開這代表園民會的職場環境是讓人待不下去的大家不是升遷而是紛紛的逃離請問一下你是不是有全面清查調查是不是有職場霸凌或者是管理上的問題好謝謝委員的指教\n\n02:27.458 --> 02:49.857\n我要跟委員講延民會的流動力這麼高不是現在才有我來了以後才知道因為延民會沒有宿舍那我們大部分都是從延鄉來的我們的族人甚至於他們在考試填字驗的時候也不太喜歡填延民會因為這嚴重影響到他的生活主委我在立法院已經23年了\n\n02:51.698 --> 03:08.092\n第一次園民會流動率那麼高您剛剛講的問題是長年存在的問題這十個月當中還不到一年所以你是不是在這邊承諾我要回去調查一下可不可以一個月之內給我一些你們調查的書面報告可以嗎可以\n\n03:09.113 --> 03:36.934\n好謝謝現在我要跟你談業務執行你們荒腔走板的例子比比皆是我們就拿禁法補償這個問題來說去年本席在這兩次的院會執行裡面你一再的護航說禁法補償的公務與預算不足可以用綜合發展基金來支應可是事實是這樣嗎沒有貴會提出的最佳預算的申請你們清楚的寫說\n\n03:38.195 --> 03:52.844\n需要将近24亿元而我在今年也查了三月份最新的报表我们的基金扣掉负债之后可以动用的现金剩不到14亿这是根本不够用的\n\n03:53.624 --> 04:22.119\n您知道嗎?但是沒關係主委您應該知道11月7號我們的行政院長他承諾他的錯誤他要用追加預算來補救淨法補償請問一下主委今年9月我們的族人可以如期領到一公頃6萬塊的淨法補償金嗎?謝謝可以可以嗎?可以我們有提出追加這個預算就是補足那個你已經提出追加預算了嘛但是院長已經核定了嗎?\n\n04:22.864 --> 04:35.431\n目前還沒有但是我相信院長會好謝謝您好希望您的回答院長聽到了我們再來看一下剛剛三讀通過的原民會組織法裡面有關族群委員無己職的議題原民會你們發新聞稿說\n\n04:40.526 --> 05:04.871\n族群委員名單不是主委你一個人的一舉一制之決定而是依照各界公推還有透過審查的結果實際上根本沒有公開推薦的程序啊絕大部分的族人也不清楚知道我們族群委員的功能是什麼最後我們看到的就是一片綠油油立委的助理國家養另外呢族群委員的人事費\n\n05:05.871 --> 05:35.311\n我們希望他改聘正式的公務員的這個議題上原民會你們又發新聞稿說這個決議是沒有法律效力的沒有辦法實質保障主任的權益但是主委你看一下人事行政總署在1月6號發函給你們原民會要要求你們配合修法然後請你們評估人力的需求並且要循程序函報行政院\n\n05:35.871 --> 05:42.061\n主委这是你没有无视法律呢还是你的幕僚在欺骗你给你错误的讯息\n\n05:42.796 --> 06:11.224\n委員我跟妳報告因為刪除掉了這個族群委員那當然對我們的一些行政量能真的是沒有我現在跟你講的是我們刪除了這些無給值的這些預算之後把這個錢拿去改聘為正式的公務員而且我們的附帶決議也這麼說可是呢你們卻說這個是沒有法律效力的可是人事行政總署已經告訴你們啦要求你們配合啊\n\n06:11.904 --> 06:33.272\n主委所以你們真的實在是你要進入狀況我很擔心你的幕僚都在欺騙你啊不是欺騙啦委員我跟你講再來再來再來我們來看一下員警吧主席委員的這個聘任從以前就是這樣子的進行嘛主委主委人事總處已經告訴你了他是有法律效力的啦所以請你們園民會要配合修法看到了沒有\n\n06:33.632 --> 06:58.204\n我們也有配合請就說有一些我們希望已經請你配合修法了來再來我現在要跟你談的是原基法原基法在一百零四年徵訂了第二之一條要要求設置部落公法人可是呢民進黨執政這八年來申不出一個部落公法人現在你們園民會申出了一個叫做什麼公法人事辦計畫\n\n06:59.505 --> 07:18.927\n然後我們看到這個事辦計畫的草案目前規劃是每一個部落要給他一百萬人事費就佔了六成六十萬然後業務費佔了四成四十萬請問一下主委部落公法人事辦計畫是不是有限定部落的數額\n\n07:20.849 --> 07:46.959\n我跟委員報告為什麼要有事辦這個計畫因為我來之後我想講了這麼多年都沒有辦所以原住民的支持一直是停頓我希望說找幾個部落我們負責任的來找幾個部落為什麼要找這幾個部落是有原因的我們認為這個部落不管是村長代表部落會議的主席還有地方的核心幹部可以\n\n07:47.608 --> 08:15.741\n比較能夠有一些共識所以我們希望找這幾個部落做得成功之後讓其他的部落也來看主委我聽到您的說法了我覺得您的說法是沒有辦法說服族人的啦因為你們沒有公開說明沒有公開堆建沒有公開審查這是不是又是一個綠油有事半板然後呢部落應該是由下而上不應該有園民會你們密室圈定啊\n\n08:16.281 --> 08:40.200\n所以我在這邊要求你要公開決策公平然後建立民主參與跟資訊的透明機制讓全國七百多個部落都有公平競爭的機會畢竟人事費六十萬業務費四十萬這是一百萬不少的金額對部落的族人來說它會是另外一個人事的安排不是嗎我跟委員報告\n\n08:44.903 --> 09:06.398\n這確實不是利有有的部落啊那請問一下你現在核定的這些部落他們有公開說明嗎現在核定的部落有幾個我們有下去跟他們做溝通做說明啊我們700多個部落裡面你是怎麼樣公開跟大家來說呢部落是如何來跟你原民會申報計畫呢這些你都沒有說明啊好啦接下來我要跟你談預算\n\n09:07.679 --> 09:34.871\n在114年度的预算里面原民会你们新闻稿又对外说什么对于推动族语教会的一亿一千万元的预算要采取冻结的措施这严重冲击到部落发展看到新闻稿我真的是摇头我觉得你们原民会是不是人格分裂了因为我们在提这份说明的时候这个提案的时候说明清清楚楚这反映的是基层的现况\n\n09:35.451 --> 09:52.043\n因为有族人跟我还有原民会的教文处反映相同的意见这个意见是什么就是针对推动落实族语生活化的执行意见我们看一下同样是执行落实族语生活化的族语保姆的政策\n\n09:52.964 --> 10:11.295\n他有非常嚴謹的查核機制還有訪視人員還有專管中心而主語教會沒有欸甚至連審查主語教會核銷的會計事務所他們都發出聲明這個聲明說什麼看一下非依照審計準則查核\n\n10:13.120 --> 10:40.707\n因此对上述各受奖励的单位也就是各教会的运作情形他的整体是不是允荡表达什么不提供任何程度的确信主委您看一下连会计事务所他们都不甘帮圆明会跟教会背书了这里面是不是有很大的问题啊所以呢本席就跟教文处一起开会我们做出了结论\n\n10:41.387 --> 11:06.149\n我們把這些預算先暫時凍結然後來修訂原住民族語言發展補助辦法然後把族語教會族語保姆語推組織等等這些團體或者是個人未來他都可以申請到原民會的經費補助而且很重要的是不受年限的限制主委你應該知道族語教會的政策是根據\n\n11:07.610 --> 11:35.667\n國家語言整體發展方案這五年計畫對吧到116年就沒有主語教會的政策了耶所以我們修訂這個辦法就是為了未來我們主語推廣的政策可以更擴大適用對象並且要常態性的補助沒有年限的我跟委員報告你難道不支持嗎我們改過這個補助的辦法一樣的教會也要循這個辦法來\n\n11:37.988 --> 12:01.056\n這正是我要跟您說的很好主委您是支持的因為這個新版原住民族語言發展補助辦法就在4月17號的時候已經按照我們所謂的解凍條件已經修正發布了嘛對不對所以可見本席這個提案是有正當理由的我們不是在為難你們機關\n\n12:02.737 --> 12:29.131\n如今呢你們也已經辦理完成事項了但是主委解凍報告還沒有送到立法院主委你當初都說了凍結這個案會衝擊不過可是現在可以解凍了可是現在已經可以解凍了很快就會提出來我們現在再整理可是你的意見好像跟行政院長不太一樣\n\n12:29.551 --> 12:33.633\n同樣是114年的預算我要現在跟你談的是南島民主論壇的問題更是離譜了\n\n12:53.240 --> 13:21.446\n南岛民主論壇從109年到114年這是總共六年計劃所以從109年到113年已經花費了我們的公務預算2.2億也是佔全部公務預算的2.5億的九成所以我之前就請人民會請你們提出效益的分析你們給我的報告裡面最重要的成果是什麼華西巴黎的音樂祭對吧\n\n13:22.230 --> 13:46.544\n我仔細一看華西巴黎的音樂劇根本不是用南島民族論壇的經費啊你們怎麼可以這麼樣的一花接木的這樣子提出報告啊主委然後你的新聞稿又講什麼刪除預算勢必會嚴重打擊國際信任度跟外交處境請問一下圓圓會你們是外交部嗎\n\n13:47.484 --> 14:10.097\n還是說外交部他們連邦交都顧不好然後要拜託你們去做我還沒請你回答主委我要問你我要問你南島民主論壇到底創造了多少部落的工作機會為族人帶來了多少經濟效益你要不要再跟我講巴西瓦里喔巴西瓦里不是用這筆預算喔\n\n14:11.360 --> 14:38.118\n我跟妳報告這幾年來我們跟南島特別是南島語系的不管是帛琉不管是土豪魯不管是馬紹爾我們原住民對國家有貢獻請問對部落造成了多少的工作機會然後多少的經濟效益我們花了這麼多錢總是要有一些經濟效益啊\n\n14:38.618 --> 14:54.336\n我也有跟你們講我們很多這些國家的留學生在台灣甚至於很多的大使來我們都請到部落去讓他們真正的感受到原住民的部落是什麼樣的狀況帶來了多少經濟效應這個部分是外交部做不到的\n\n14:54.876 --> 14:56.797\n那些南島國家是我們自己的弟兄姊妹\n\n15:15.981 --> 15:33.449\n主委你不是外交部你是園民會我們幫得上外交部的忙我覺得原住民很驕傲不要在這邊辯解了你不是外交部你是園民會再來園民會今年的預算是不是增加13億我們是不是根本沒有刪你們的基本設施維持費\n\n15:34.349 --> 15:47.177\n基本設施維持費沒有刪預算增加基本設施費也沒有刪可是呢你們園民會竟然發公文恐嚇我們鄉鎮市公所說看一下\n\n15:48.485 --> 16:17.135\n補助項目要先凍結50%要回收重新核定重新調整預算結構後續要滾動調整主委你知道嗎基本設施維持費是本席在立法院這23年來替原鄉的鄉長爭取的另外的預算你們現在說要凍結50%然後要收回要全部要重新滾動調整請問一下你們為什麼要這麼做\n\n16:18.305 --> 16:27.736\n委員我跟你講即便是刪即便是動了預算有關這些我們社府的一些經費就是補助一些弱勢團體的從來沒有斷過但是這個基本設施費\n\n16:33.624 --> 16:55.854\n是公所的一些基本設施的一些維持沒有做好立法院沒有刪除你們這筆預算啊那你們為什麼要公然的發公文給原鄉的公署我們要終結預算啊我們要終結預算來看就是說也很誠懇的跟公司講請你們按照科目我們不是刪掉請你們按照科目先50%而已嘛我們沒有刪也沒有凍結你憑什麼要凍結鄉公所的這50%預算好我們現在我要再問您\n\n17:03.188 --> 17:17.597\n我們根本沒有刪這個預算原民會的預算也增加了13億你們也不斷的發新聞稿向我們的國人說推廣原住民族政策編列的政策宣導費用3696萬元也遭到我們在野黨全數刪除該會未來就沒有辦法透過媒體來傳遞相關政策的資訊\n\n17:28.443 --> 17:55.625\n導致族人錯失重要的權益請問族委我們沒有園民台嗎園民台每年拿我們人民納稅錢五億卻沒有辦法傳遞資訊嗎而你們園民會的錯誤宣導只會混淆視聽散佈錯誤的資訊預算明明是增加的你們卻還趕預算不夠然後你們一邊又花大錢散佈假消息這樣的園民會族人能夠接受嗎你們這樣子胡搞小搞難道\n\n17:56.886 --> 18:17.633\n立法委員不應該好好監督你們嗎然後我們再看到原民會你們惡意散佈假消息之後民進黨的側翼就接著混淆視聽了請問主委台大園圖中心今年度流標是因為禁法補償的關係還是因為財化法的關係你知道嗎民進黨的側翼一直講是因為禁法補償和財化法的關係\n\n18:19.213 --> 18:41.567\n看一下公文原民會1月23號回文告訴我台大沿途中心的流標是因為常年入管人士效益不彰再加上推廣活動另外外包辦理這導致招標金額比去年少請問是你說謊還是民進黨的側翼者說謊現在給你機會來澄清你講的這個本來是在台大來做\n\n18:44.412 --> 18:56.045\n你已經回文給我了啦是因為他的入管人事效益不彰嘛所以不是禁法補償跟財化法的關係嘛對嗎好謝謝現在我要再跟你談財政劃分授之法\n\n19:00.129 --> 19:13.141\n你們的新聞稿說財政劃分修正影響了運作更將會嚴重衝擊援助民族的地區鄉鎮區公所的財政跟地方建設的發展請問一下財政收支劃分法修了哪幾條\n\n19:15.542 --> 19:27.777\n這個我所知道的財政收支方法如果修了幾條你連修了幾條都講不出來然後精算的結果會影響多少原鄉的這些財政你都不知道會影響公所的財政啊\n\n19:30.640 --> 19:53.677\n我問過主計總署主計總署告訴我園民會的預估只是可能延伸的情形不是實際的狀況你連修了哪幾條也沒有辦法講出實際狀況你還要恐嚇主委主委這是你應該做的事情嗎那你知道我提的財化法是要求行政院額外找到支持園鄉的薰球請問你支持我的修法嗎\n\n19:54.677 --> 20:04.710\n額外給縣市政府...你不用轉了啦,謝謝我請卓院長如果我們的額度一樣封鎖,不一定能夠...時間暫停一下好不好,謝謝麻煩請卓院長背信我現在請卓院長\n\n20:12.915 --> 20:33.849\n主委你要更加努力我知道你很認真但是你有一些幕僚真的在欺騙你請問一下院長你剛剛看到了我舉了那麼多園民會的問題它是嚴重失能而且人力流失非常的嚴重人事混亂決策錯誤假消息是滿天飛\n\n20:34.870 --> 20:45.575\n我在這邊要求你責成園民會一個月之內調查我們人員外流的原因然後整頓人事團隊並且要停止散發誤導性的新聞稿可以嗎\n\n20:48.944 --> 21:04.766\n請主委能夠一個月內調查人員外流的原因同時對這個會內的人事團隊要做精神上的鼓勵那麼有沒有發布誤導性的新聞可以檢討沒有的話要向委員說明\n\n21:05.086 --> 21:28.787\n好謝謝院長我要問你的就是金髮補償的問題在9月行政院遭到外界的批判了之後花了49天你們認錯不救了現在呢114年度的總預算也已經公佈原民會的追加預算也已經送到你的行政院了院長請問一下追加預算什麼時候會送進立法院金髮補償這一個\n\n21:31.235 --> 21:51.581\n預算不夠的問題我們經過朝野黨團在行政院裡面溝通協調才達成共識並不是行政院認錯我們是協商主任最關心的是到底能不能夠在九月份的時候領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金跟委員報告現在我們針對\n\n21:52.847 --> 22:15.130\n因美國這個關稅的調整世界貿易重整我們現在這個階段第一要向國人提出的是我們未來在這個禮拜之內要提出的特別條例跟特別預算我問您的是我的族人能不能拿到一公頃六萬塊看一下這不只是影響族人權益喔還關係到你們政黨某位立法委員的政治承諾喔請您聽一下\n\n22:25.455 --> 22:44.802\n請問院長這很嚴重耶請問一下九月份到底族人能不能領到一公頃六萬塊的補償因為剛剛族委說可以領得到我們在處理特別條例特別預算之後我們會統合整個今年度的總預算到底被刪減的數字該怎麼處理之後一併就整體的最佳預算送出\n\n22:45.970 --> 22:50.337\n請問一下監察院已經針對預算提出釋憲了行政院要跟進嗎\n\n22:51.668 --> 23:20.438\n這一定會對預算案跟財劃法所以我問候主席總書行政院一旦跟進並且憲法法庭財準暫時處分就無法處理追加預算即便剛剛我們考慮用綜合發展基金可是看一下到三月底可以動用的現金不到14億遠遠沒有辦法支應24億的預算缺口我再問你一次請你正面的回答我的族人九月份到底能不能領到\n\n23:21.218 --> 23:42.108\n一公頃六萬塊的補償金如果行政院對預算案跟裁劃法提出釋憲如果提出釋憲也併同暫時處分的話影響的就不只是這十四億二十四億而已所以到底能不能領到我們會努力在特別預算特別條例特別預算之後和現在\n\n23:43.629 --> 24:06.572\n立法院向校行政院自行刪除的部分現在還沒有辦法刪除所以到底能不能領到剛剛主委說可以領到你們的執政黨的委員說如果沒有領到他要辭職我要請院長記住不論是你也好還是剛剛那位執政黨的立法委員我們的族人如果不能夠在九月份如期領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金的話\n\n24:08.033 --> 24:27.724\n後果你們要自己承擔喔也請你們負起責任接下來我要講的是當前世界上最重要的事情也是台灣人民最關心的那就是美國對等關稅的議題從4月2號到現在政府團隊在應對對等關稅這件事情上你們不但錯估形勢而且手忙腳亂\n\n24:28.684 --> 24:46.816\n你們也沒有做好最好的準備做最壞的打算你們只知道盲目的順從美國的政府的號令比起民進黨政府被動的被川普吃乾媽勁我覺得新加坡總理黃巡柴先生的態度更令我尊敬看一下黃總理他在4月8號國會發言的時候他說\n\n24:49.218 --> 25:14.598\n对于美国宣布向新加坡征收10%的对等关税他感到失望他说新美有深厚的友谊这不是对朋友应该有的行为他还说美国只着重于货物贸易但是实际上美国跟许多服务贸易伙伴都保持着顺差美国向世界出口软体服务\n\n25:15.118 --> 25:39.505\n教育娱乐金融和商业服务等等我们可以看到尽管新加坡政府他也宣布了不在对等关税上面来报复美国但是黄总理他不卑不亢他诚恳说了实话他为什么呢我们民进党你们就不能够对这个所谓的坚弱磐石的朋友表示失望\n\n25:40.245 --> 26:00.592\n你們為什麼不能夠用朋友的道義來要求美國呢而這樣的友誼難道不該懷疑嗎我在這五年來我一直對美國的對台政策跟你們發出警示我們為什麼要開放萊豬進口我們為什麼要放寬美國農藥殘留量的管制\n\n26:01.252 --> 26:26.566\n我们为什么要接受美国提出来的台湾学人法案然后让美国官员到我们政府工作我们为什么要签署那个对我们贸易谈判根本非常不利的台美贸易倡议我们为什么要把九成以上的外汇存顶大把大把的去买美债而我的这些疑问其实呢总结起来就是一句话\n\n26:27.446 --> 26:51.662\n一昧的依靠美国就是死路一条但是纵使我说了这么多可是民进党政府你们就是不听美国政府说什么民进党政府你们就做什么你们还贴飘签说我是以美论结果呢川普政府现在所做的行为在我们看来就是以美啊\n\n26:52.623 --> 27:21.602\n還原美國是必要的因為只有這樣我們才能夠獨立自主的做出最有利於人民的判斷這一次的對等關稅對台灣人民來說是災難而我們的賴總統卻要人民吃苦當吃補院長不向美國報復並不等於就該全面投降您認為呢台灣當然不會向任何一個國家投降包括美國包括中國在內\n\n27:22.950 --> 27:38.982\n但是我們對於川普總統的新的關稅政策我們在4月4號的記者會當中我們就說過了這是一個不合理的計算公式我們一定會提出嚴正的反應很好我們都說過了4月4號但是呢我們賴總統\n\n27:40.223 --> 27:57.074\n他已經把底線都告訴了美國我們不會採取報復的證據在4月15號的時候有委員質詢你政府是不是有考慮要加碼持有美戰你說內部是有準備的我們任何選項都有討論不一定採行這樣的方式看一下最近外傳\n\n27:57.994 --> 28:21.145\n美国可能要逼迫美债的债权人将所持有的美债换成一百年期的临时债券针对这件事情中央银行总裁杨金龙他也回应说如果真的是这么样的转换那就相当是美债的倒债了那您之前有说关于加码持有美债政府内部有准备请问是准备什么\n\n28:21.525 --> 28:41.119\n是加碼呢還是轉換呢應該更正我說我們任何的選項都在我到底會不會要現在問你的是美債的問題對它也當然是一個選項你們是加碼還是轉換我們在我們的方案裡面如果沒有提出來那就是不是我們的方案所以你認為購買美債再加碼美債不是你們的方案\n\n28:41.804 --> 29:05.216\n這是一個選項,但是我們如果最後重整沒有提出來,那就是不是我們選舉的內容。好啦,我要在這裡告訴您的是,院長,不管是加碼還是轉換,結果都是楊金龍總裁他所說的,倒在。而經過川普這麼樣的震撼教育,台灣全民其實都聰明了,大家都在看,也都在等。\n\n29:06.328 --> 29:25.726\n不是您在這邊一直三言兩語撥開重點在這邊打詢的態度我想台灣人民現在正面臨的是生死存亡的大事所以我們是要非常嚴肅的看待這樣的事情我們非常嚴肅\n\n29:26.807 --> 29:51.103\n我們也從4月4號提出的9個面向20項措施當中也告訴國人我們對產業的支持所以我們先前是有準備的我們也提升了那我們現在的策略是備妥所有的協調談判的方案內容隨時準備啟動在第一次的正式視訊會議之後隨時準備下一次任何形式的談判請問第一次視訊會議你們的結論是什麼\n\n29:53.665 --> 30:21.463\n我們說過了雙方對於對等關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及包括出口管制在內的多項議題都進行了交換意見現在我們要把這些意見重整之後等待下一次應該很快就會到來跟美方進行的談判第二次談判會是什麼時候這個因為美方還要針對很多的國家但是我敢跟委員說我們已經是在優先的國家行列當中多優先很優先\n\n30:22.738 --> 30:47.986\n獨優宣媒我有告訴您什麼時候嗎我們認為我們應該在因為第一波的這個國家大概應該都這樣接觸像日本他也接觸過了其他也接觸過了我們認為我們會爭取最優先的時間你們認為會是在什麼時候九月以後嗎九月以後九月以後九月以後就超過了九十天了九月之前當然之前\n\n30:50.000 --> 30:54.824\n最後我還是要說不像美國低頭並不等於就該全面投降請你們堅持\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.67,"end":27.006,"text":"韓院長早安現在我們要先請園民會的主委曾主委麻煩請園民會備詢卓院長先休息一下但是呢也請你好好聽一下我對曾主委的質詢好嗎謝謝"},{"start":34.329,"end":59.455,"text":"委員好曾志偉早安早在今年的3月12號您率領你的主管來我的辦公室做業務報告我看得出來您是有心要做事而且有心要改變但是很遺憾的是您身邊的幕僚恐怕正在拖累整個人民會因為他們做出很多錯誤的決策甚至還發布了一些問題百出的新聞"},{"start":60.495,"end":84.451,"text":"而首先呢我現在要先跟你談的是我看到園民會的第一個問題就是人力流動率非常的驚人在新莊聯合辦公大樓的不僅僅只有園民會還有文化部跟治安署園民會呢你們有198名的正式人員短短的10個月裡面異動了45個人這將近四分之一耶"},{"start":85.191,"end":111.247,"text":"我們對比文化部、職安署他們都是以內部升遷為主而原民會呢都是申請外調這高達了29個人超過了六成啊好可怕你看這個數據沒有而今年的1月行政院提出的霸凌案件報告裡面也大聲的疾呼要落實總統改變職產文化杜絕霸凌的政策指示"},{"start":111.767,"end":127.947,"text":"要確保公務體系能夠健康的運作同時也承諾行政院院長要要求各機關全面清查是不是存在霸凌的行為並且要迅速調查跟依法處理請問主委原民會"},{"start":129.208,"end":146.689,"text":"這麼多人的離開這代表園民會的職場環境是讓人待不下去的大家不是升遷而是紛紛的逃離請問一下你是不是有全面清查調查是不是有職場霸凌或者是管理上的問題好 謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":147.458,"end":169.857,"text":"我要跟委員講 延民會的流動力這麼高 不是現在才有我來了以後才知道 因為延民會沒有宿舍那我們大部分都是從延鄉來的我們的族人甚至於他們在考試填字驗的時候 也不太喜歡填延民會因為這嚴重影響到他的生活主委 我在立法院已經23年了"},{"start":171.698,"end":188.092,"text":"第一次園民會流動率那麼高您剛剛講的問題是長年存在的問題這十個月當中還不到一年所以你是不是在這邊承諾我要回去調查一下可不可以一個月之內給我一些你們調查的書面報告可以嗎可以"},{"start":189.113,"end":216.934,"text":"好 謝謝現在我要跟你談業務執行你們荒腔走板的例子比比皆是我們就拿禁法補償這個問題來說去年本席在這兩次的院會執行裡面你一再的護航說禁法補償的公務與預算不足可以用綜合發展基金來支應可是事實是這樣嗎沒有 貴會提出的最佳預算的申請你們清楚的寫說"},{"start":218.195,"end":232.844,"text":"需要将近24亿元而我在今年也查了三月份最新的报表我们的基金扣掉负债之后可以动用的现金剩不到14亿这是根本不够用的"},{"start":233.624,"end":262.119,"text":"您知道嗎?但是沒關係主委您應該知道11月7號我們的行政院長他承諾他的錯誤他要用追加預算來補救淨法補償請問一下主委今年9月我們的族人可以如期領到一公頃6萬塊的淨法補償金嗎?謝謝 可以可以嗎?可以 我們有提出追加這個預算就是補足那個你已經提出追加預算了嘛但是院長已經核定了嗎?"},{"start":262.864,"end":275.431,"text":"目前還沒有但是我相信院長會好謝謝您好希望您的回答院長聽到了我們再來看一下剛剛三讀通過的原民會組織法裡面有關族群委員無己職的議題原民會你們發新聞稿說"},{"start":280.526,"end":304.871,"text":"族群委員名單不是主委你一個人的一舉一制之決定而是依照各界公推還有透過審查的結果實際上根本沒有公開推薦的程序啊絕大部分的族人也不清楚知道我們族群委員的功能是什麼最後我們看到的就是一片綠油油立委的助理國家養另外呢 族群委員的人事費"},{"start":305.871,"end":335.311,"text":"我們希望他改聘正式的公務員的這個議題上原民會你們又發新聞稿說這個決議是沒有法律效力的沒有辦法實質保障主任的權益但是主委你看一下人事行政總署在1月6號發函給你們原民會要要求你們配合修法然後請你們評估人力的需求並且要循程序函報行政院"},{"start":335.871,"end":342.061,"text":"主委这是你没有无视法律呢还是你的幕僚在欺骗你给你错误的讯息"},{"start":342.796,"end":371.224,"text":"委員我跟妳報告因為刪除掉了這個族群委員那當然對我們的一些行政量能真的是沒有我現在跟你講的是我們刪除了這些無給值的這些預算之後把這個錢拿去改聘為正式的公務員而且我們的附帶決議也這麼說可是呢你們卻說這個是沒有法律效力的可是人事行政總署已經告訴你們啦要求你們配合啊"},{"start":371.904,"end":393.272,"text":"主委所以你們真的實在是你要進入狀況我很擔心你的幕僚都在欺騙你啊不是欺騙啦委員我跟你講再來再來再來我們來看一下員警吧主席委員的這個聘任從以前就是這樣子的進行嘛主委主委人事總處已經告訴你了他是有法律效力的啦所以請你們園民會要配合修法看到了沒有"},{"start":393.632,"end":418.204,"text":"我們也有配合請就說有一些我們希望已經請你配合修法了來再來我現在要跟你談的是原基法原基法在一百零四年徵訂了第二之一條要要求設置部落公法人可是呢民進黨執政這八年來申不出一個部落公法人現在你們園民會申出了一個叫做什麼公法人事辦計畫"},{"start":419.505,"end":438.927,"text":"然後我們看到這個事辦計畫的草案目前規劃是每一個部落要給他一百萬人事費就佔了六成六十萬然後業務費佔了四成四十萬請問一下主委部落公法人事辦計畫是不是有限定部落的數額"},{"start":440.849,"end":466.959,"text":"我跟委員報告為什麼要有事辦這個計畫因為我來之後我想講了這麼多年都沒有辦所以原住民的支持一直是停頓我希望說找幾個部落我們負責任的來找幾個部落為什麼要找這幾個部落是有原因的我們認為這個部落不管是村長代表部落會議的主席還有地方的核心幹部可以"},{"start":467.608,"end":495.741,"text":"比較能夠有一些共識所以我們希望找這幾個部落做得成功之後讓其他的部落也來看主委我聽到您的說法了我覺得您的說法是沒有辦法說服族人的啦因為你們沒有公開說明沒有公開堆建沒有公開審查這是不是又是一個綠油有事半板然後呢部落應該是由下而上不應該有園民會你們密室圈定啊"},{"start":496.281,"end":520.2,"text":"所以我在這邊要求你要公開決策公平然後建立民主參與跟資訊的透明機制讓全國七百多個部落都有公平競爭的機會畢竟人事費六十萬業務費四十萬這是一百萬不少的金額對部落的族人來說它會是另外一個人事的安排不是嗎我跟委員報告"},{"start":524.903,"end":546.398,"text":"這確實不是利有有的部落啊那請問一下你現在核定的這些部落他們有公開說明嗎現在核定的部落有幾個我們有下去跟他們做溝通做說明啊我們700多個部落裡面你是怎麼樣公開跟大家來說呢部落是如何來跟你原民會申報計畫呢這些你都沒有說明啊好啦 接下來我要跟你談預算"},{"start":547.679,"end":574.871,"text":"在114年度的预算里面原民会你们新闻稿又对外说什么对于推动族语教会的一亿一千万元的预算要采取冻结的措施这严重冲击到部落发展看到新闻稿我真的是摇头我觉得你们原民会是不是人格分裂了因为我们在提这份说明的时候这个提案的时候说明清清楚楚这反映的是基层的现况"},{"start":575.451,"end":592.043,"text":"因为有族人跟我还有原民会的教文处反映相同的意见这个意见是什么就是针对推动落实族语生活化的执行意见我们看一下同样是执行落实族语生活化的族语保姆的政策"},{"start":592.964,"end":611.295,"text":"他有非常嚴謹的查核機制還有訪視人員還有專管中心而主語教會沒有欸甚至連審查主語教會核銷的會計事務所他們都發出聲明這個聲明說什麼看一下非依照審計準則查核"},{"start":613.12,"end":640.707,"text":"因此对上述各受奖励的单位也就是各教会的运作情形他的整体是不是允荡表达什么不提供任何程度的确信主委您看一下连会计事务所他们都不甘帮圆明会跟教会背书了这里面是不是有很大的问题啊所以呢本席就跟教文处一起开会我们做出了结论"},{"start":641.387,"end":666.149,"text":"我們把這些預算先暫時凍結然後來修訂原住民族語言發展補助辦法然後把族語教會族語保姆語推組織等等這些團體或者是個人未來他都可以申請到原民會的經費補助而且很重要的是不受年限的限制主委你應該知道族語教會的政策是根據"},{"start":667.61,"end":695.667,"text":"國家語言整體發展方案這五年計畫 對吧到116年就沒有主語教會的政策了耶所以我們修訂這個辦法就是為了未來我們主語推廣的政策可以更擴大適用對象並且要常態性的補助沒有年限的我跟委員報告你難道不支持嗎我們改過這個補助的辦法一樣的教會也要循這個辦法來"},{"start":697.988,"end":721.056,"text":"這正是我要跟您說的很好主委您是支持的因為這個新版原住民族語言發展補助辦法就在4月17號的時候已經按照我們所謂的解凍條件已經修正發布了嘛對不對所以可見本席這個提案是有正當理由的我們不是在為難你們機關"},{"start":722.737,"end":749.131,"text":"如今呢你們也已經辦理完成事項了但是主委解凍報告還沒有送到立法院主委你當初都說了凍結這個案會衝擊不過可是現在可以解凍了可是現在已經可以解凍了很快就會提出來我們現在再整理可是你的意見好像跟行政院長不太一樣"},{"start":749.551,"end":753.633,"text":"同樣是114年的預算我要現在跟你談的是南島民主論壇的問題更是離譜了"},{"start":773.24,"end":801.446,"text":"南岛民主論壇從109年到114年這是總共六年計劃所以從109年到113年已經花費了我們的公務預算2.2億也是佔全部公務預算的2.5億的九成所以我之前就請人民會請你們提出效益的分析你們給我的報告裡面最重要的成果是什麼華西巴黎的音樂祭對吧"},{"start":802.23,"end":826.544,"text":"我仔細一看 華西巴黎的音樂劇根本不是用南島民族論壇的經費啊你們怎麼可以這麼樣的一花接木的這樣子提出報告啊 主委然後你的新聞稿又講什麼刪除預算勢必會嚴重打擊國際信任度跟外交處境請問一下圓圓會 你們是外交部嗎"},{"start":827.484,"end":850.097,"text":"還是說外交部他們連邦交都顧不好然後要拜託你們去做我還沒請你回答主委我要問你我要問你南島民主論壇到底創造了多少部落的工作機會為族人帶來了多少經濟效益你要不要再跟我講巴西瓦里喔巴西瓦里不是用這筆預算喔"},{"start":851.36,"end":878.118,"text":"我跟妳報告 這幾年來我們跟南島 特別是南島語系的不管是帛琉 不管是土豪魯 不管是馬紹爾我們原住民對國家有貢獻請問對部落造成了多少的工作機會然後多少的經濟效益我們花了這麼多錢總是要有一些經濟效益啊"},{"start":878.618,"end":894.336,"text":"我也有跟你們講我們很多這些國家的留學生在台灣甚至於很多的大使來我們都請到部落去讓他們真正的感受到原住民的部落是什麼樣的狀況帶來了多少經濟效應這個部分是外交部做不到的"},{"start":894.876,"end":896.797,"text":"那些南島國家是我們自己的弟兄姊妹"},{"start":915.981,"end":933.449,"text":"主委你不是外交部你是園民會我們幫得上外交部的忙我覺得原住民很驕傲不要在這邊辯解了你不是外交部你是園民會再來園民會今年的預算是不是增加13億我們是不是根本沒有刪你們的基本設施維持費"},{"start":934.349,"end":947.177,"text":"基本設施維持費沒有刪預算增加基本設施費也沒有刪可是呢你們園民會竟然發公文恐嚇我們鄉鎮市公所說看一下"},{"start":948.485,"end":977.135,"text":"補助項目要先凍結50%要回收重新核定重新調整預算結構後續要滾動調整主委你知道嗎基本設施維持費是本席在立法院這23年來替原鄉的鄉長爭取的另外的預算你們現在說要凍結50%然後要收回要全部要重新滾動調整請問一下你們為什麼要這麼做"},{"start":978.305,"end":987.736,"text":"委員我跟你講即便是刪 即便是動了預算有關這些我們社府的一些經費就是補助一些弱勢團體的從來沒有斷過但是這個基本設施費"},{"start":993.624,"end":1015.854,"text":"是公所的一些基本設施的一些維持沒有做好立法院沒有刪除你們這筆預算啊那你們為什麼要公然的發公文給原鄉的公署我們要終結預算啊我們要終結預算來看就是說也很誠懇的跟公司講請你們按照科目我們不是刪掉請你們按照科目先50%而已嘛我們沒有刪也沒有凍結你憑什麼要凍結鄉公所的這50%預算好我們現在我要再問您"},{"start":1023.188,"end":1037.597,"text":"我們根本沒有刪這個預算 原民會的預算也增加了13億你們也不斷的發新聞稿 向我們的國人說推廣原住民族政策 編列的政策宣導費用3696萬元也遭到我們在野黨全數刪除該會未來就沒有辦法透過媒體來傳遞相關政策的資訊"},{"start":1048.443,"end":1075.625,"text":"導致族人錯失重要的權益請問族委我們沒有園民台嗎園民台每年拿我們人民納稅錢五億卻沒有辦法傳遞資訊嗎而你們園民會的錯誤宣導只會混淆視聽散佈錯誤的資訊預算明明是增加的你們卻還趕預算不夠然後你們一邊又花大錢散佈假消息這樣的園民會族人能夠接受嗎你們這樣子胡搞小搞難道"},{"start":1076.886,"end":1097.633,"text":"立法委員不應該好好監督你們嗎然後我們再看到原民會你們惡意散佈假消息之後民進黨的側翼就接著混淆視聽了請問主委台大園圖中心今年度流標是因為禁法補償的關係還是因為財化法的關係你知道嗎民進黨的側翼一直講是因為禁法補償和財化法的關係"},{"start":1099.213,"end":1121.567,"text":"看一下公文原民會1月23號回文告訴我台大沿途中心的流標是因為常年入管人士效益不彰再加上推廣活動另外外包辦理這導致招標金額比去年少請問是你說謊還是民進黨的側翼者說謊現在給你機會來澄清你講的這個本來是在台大來做"},{"start":1124.412,"end":1136.045,"text":"你已經回文給我了啦是因為他的入管人事效益不彰嘛所以不是禁法補償跟財化法的關係嘛對嗎好 謝謝現在我要再跟你談財政劃分授之法"},{"start":1140.129,"end":1153.141,"text":"你們的新聞稿說財政劃分修正影響了運作更將會嚴重衝擊援助民族的地區鄉鎮區公所的財政跟地方建設的發展請問一下財政收支劃分法修了哪幾條"},{"start":1155.542,"end":1167.777,"text":"這個我所知道的財政收支方法如果修了幾條你連修了幾條都講不出來然後精算的結果會影響多少原鄉的這些財政你都不知道會影響公所的財政啊"},{"start":1170.64,"end":1193.677,"text":"我問過主計總署 主計總署告訴我 園民會的預估只是可能延伸的情形 不是實際的狀況你連修了哪幾條也沒有辦法講出實際狀況你還要恐嚇主委主委這是你應該做的事情嗎那你知道我提的財化法是要求行政院額外找到支持園鄉的薰球請問你支持我的修法嗎"},{"start":1194.677,"end":1204.71,"text":"額外給縣市政府...你不用轉了啦,謝謝我請卓院長如果我們的額度一樣封鎖,不一定能夠...時間暫停一下好不好,謝謝麻煩請卓院長背信我現在請卓院長"},{"start":1212.915,"end":1233.849,"text":"主委你要更加努力我知道你很認真但是你有一些幕僚真的在欺騙你請問一下院長你剛剛看到了我舉了那麼多園民會的問題它是嚴重失能而且人力流失非常的嚴重人事混亂決策錯誤假消息是滿天飛"},{"start":1234.87,"end":1245.575,"text":"我在這邊要求你責成園民會一個月之內調查我們人員外流的原因然後整頓人事團隊並且要停止散發誤導性的新聞稿 可以嗎"},{"start":1248.944,"end":1264.766,"text":"請主委能夠一個月內調查人員外流的原因同時對這個會內的人事團隊要做精神上的鼓勵那麼有沒有發布誤導性的新聞可以檢討沒有的話要向委員說明"},{"start":1265.086,"end":1288.787,"text":"好謝謝院長我要問你的就是金髮補償的問題在9月行政院遭到外界的批判了之後花了49天你們認錯不救了現在呢114年度的總預算也已經公佈原民會的追加預算也已經送到你的行政院了院長請問一下追加預算什麼時候會送進立法院金髮補償這一個"},{"start":1291.235,"end":1311.581,"text":"預算不夠的問題我們經過朝野黨團在行政院裡面溝通協調才達成共識並不是行政院認錯我們是協商主任最關心的是到底能不能夠在九月份的時候領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金跟委員報告現在我們針對"},{"start":1312.847,"end":1335.13,"text":"因美國這個關稅的調整世界貿易重整我們現在這個階段第一要向國人提出的是我們未來在這個禮拜之內要提出的特別條例跟特別預算我問您的是我的族人能不能拿到一公頃六萬塊看一下這不只是影響族人權益喔還關係到你們政黨某位立法委員的政治承諾喔請您聽一下"},{"start":1345.455,"end":1364.802,"text":"請問院長這很嚴重耶請問一下九月份到底族人能不能領到一公頃六萬塊的補償因為剛剛族委說可以領得到我們在處理特別條例特別預算之後我們會統合整個今年度的總預算到底被刪減的數字該怎麼處理之後一併就整體的最佳預算送出"},{"start":1365.97,"end":1370.337,"text":"請問一下監察院已經針對預算提出釋憲了行政院要跟進嗎"},{"start":1371.668,"end":1400.438,"text":"這一定會對預算案跟財劃法所以我問候主席總書行政院一旦跟進並且憲法法庭財準暫時處分就無法處理追加預算即便剛剛我們考慮用綜合發展基金可是看一下到三月底可以動用的現金不到14億遠遠沒有辦法支應24億的預算缺口我再問你一次請你正面的回答我的族人九月份到底能不能領到"},{"start":1401.218,"end":1422.108,"text":"一公頃六萬塊的補償金如果行政院對預算案跟裁劃法提出釋憲如果提出釋憲也併同暫時處分的話影響的就不只是這十四億二十四億而已所以到底能不能領到我們會努力在特別預算特別條例特別預算之後和現在"},{"start":1423.629,"end":1446.572,"text":"立法院向校行政院自行刪除的部分現在還沒有辦法刪除所以到底能不能領到剛剛主委說可以領到你們的執政黨的委員說如果沒有領到他要辭職我要請院長記住不論是你也好還是剛剛那位執政黨的立法委員我們的族人如果不能夠在九月份如期領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金的話"},{"start":1448.033,"end":1467.724,"text":"後果你們要自己承擔喔也請你們負起責任接下來我要講的是當前世界上最重要的事情也是台灣人民最關心的那就是美國對等關稅的議題從4月2號到現在政府團隊在應對對等關稅這件事情上你們不但錯估形勢而且手忙腳亂"},{"start":1468.684,"end":1486.816,"text":"你們也沒有做好最好的準備做最壞的打算你們只知道盲目的順從美國的政府的號令比起民進黨政府被動的被川普吃乾媽勁我覺得新加坡總理黃巡柴先生的態度更令我尊敬看一下黃總理他在4月8號國會發言的時候他說"},{"start":1489.218,"end":1514.598,"text":"对于美国宣布向新加坡征收10%的对等关税他感到失望他说新美有深厚的友谊这不是对朋友应该有的行为他还说美国只着重于货物贸易但是实际上美国跟许多服务贸易伙伴都保持着顺差美国向世界出口软体服务"},{"start":1515.118,"end":1539.505,"text":"教育 娱乐 金融和商业服务等等我们可以看到尽管新加坡政府他也宣布了不在对等关税上面来报复美国但是黄总理他不卑不亢他诚恳说了实话他为什么呢我们民进党你们就不能够对这个所谓的坚弱磐石的朋友表示失望"},{"start":1540.245,"end":1560.592,"text":"你們為什麼不能夠用朋友的道義來要求美國呢而這樣的友誼難道不該懷疑嗎我在這五年來我一直對美國的對台政策跟你們發出警示我們為什麼要開放萊豬進口我們為什麼要放寬美國農藥殘留量的管制"},{"start":1561.252,"end":1586.566,"text":"我们为什么要接受美国提出来的台湾学人法案然后让美国官员到我们政府工作我们为什么要签署那个对我们贸易谈判根本非常不利的台美贸易倡议我们为什么要把九成以上的外汇存顶大把大把的去买美债而我的这些疑问其实呢总结起来就是一句话"},{"start":1587.446,"end":1611.662,"text":"一昧的依靠美国就是死路一条但是纵使我说了这么多可是民进党政府你们就是不听美国政府说什么民进党政府你们就做什么你们还贴飘签说我是以美论结果呢川普政府现在所做的行为在我们看来就是以美啊"},{"start":1612.623,"end":1641.602,"text":"還原美國是必要的因為只有這樣我們才能夠獨立自主的做出最有利於人民的判斷這一次的對等關稅對台灣人民來說是災難而我們的賴總統卻要人民吃苦當吃補院長不向美國報復並不等於就該全面投降您認為呢台灣當然不會向任何一個國家投降包括美國包括中國在內"},{"start":1642.95,"end":1658.982,"text":"但是我們對於川普總統的新的關稅政策我們在4月4號的記者會當中我們就說過了這是一個不合理的計算公式我們一定會提出嚴正的反應很好 我們都說過了4月4號但是呢 我們賴總統"},{"start":1660.223,"end":1677.074,"text":"他已經把底線都告訴了美國我們不會採取報復的證據在4月15號的時候有委員質詢你政府是不是有考慮要加碼持有美戰你說內部是有準備的我們任何選項都有討論不一定採行這樣的方式看一下最近外傳"},{"start":1677.994,"end":1701.145,"text":"美国可能要逼迫美债的债权人将所持有的美债换成一百年期的临时债券针对这件事情中央银行总裁杨金龙他也回应说如果真的是这么样的转换那就相当是美债的倒债了那您之前有说关于加码持有美债政府内部有准备请问是准备什么"},{"start":1701.525,"end":1721.119,"text":"是加碼呢 還是轉換呢應該更正 我說我們任何的選項都在我到底會不會要現在問你的是美債的問題對 它也當然是一個選項你們是加碼還是轉換我們在我們的方案裡面如果沒有提出來那就是不是我們的方案所以你認為購買美債再加碼美債不是你們的方案"},{"start":1721.804,"end":1745.216,"text":"這是一個選項,但是我們如果最後重整沒有提出來,那就是不是我們選舉的內容。好啦,我要在這裡告訴您的是,院長,不管是加碼還是轉換,結果都是楊金龍總裁他所說的,倒在。而經過川普這麼樣的震撼教育,台灣全民其實都聰明了,大家都在看,也都在等。"},{"start":1746.328,"end":1765.726,"text":"不是您在這邊一直三言兩語撥開重點在這邊打詢的態度我想台灣人民現在正面臨的是生死存亡的大事所以我們是要非常嚴肅的看待這樣的事情我們非常嚴肅"},{"start":1766.807,"end":1791.103,"text":"我們也從4月4號提出的9個面向20項措施當中也告訴國人我們對產業的支持所以我們先前是有準備的我們也提升了那我們現在的策略是備妥所有的協調談判的方案內容隨時準備啟動在第一次的正式視訊會議之後隨時準備下一次任何形式的談判請問第一次視訊會議你們的結論是什麼"},{"start":1793.665,"end":1821.463,"text":"我們說過了雙方對於對等關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及包括出口管制在內的多項議題都進行了交換意見現在我們要把這些意見重整之後等待下一次應該很快就會到來跟美方進行的談判第二次談判會是什麼時候這個因為美方還要針對很多的國家但是我敢跟委員說我們已經是在優先的國家行列當中多優先很優先"},{"start":1822.738,"end":1847.986,"text":"獨優宣媒我有告訴您什麼時候嗎我們認為我們應該在因為第一波的這個國家大概應該都這樣接觸像日本他也接觸過了其他也接觸過了我們認為我們會爭取最優先的時間你們認為會是在什麼時候九月以後嗎九月以後九月以後九月以後就超過了九十天了九月之前當然之前"},{"start":1850,"end":1854.824,"text":"最後我還是要說不像美國低頭並不等於就該全面投降請你們堅持"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":523,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（10時50分）韓院長，早安。我要先請原民會曾主委。"],["主席：麻煩請原民會備詢。"],["高金委員素梅：卓院長先休息一下，但是也請你好好聽一下我對曾主委的質詢，好嗎？謝謝。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：曾主委，早安。"],["曾主任委員智勇：早。"],["高金委員素梅：在今年3月12號，你率領你們的主管來我的辦公室業務報告，我看得出來，您是有心要做事而且有心要改變。但很遺憾的是，您身邊的幕僚恐怕正在拖累整個原民會，因為他們做出很多錯誤的決策，甚至還發布了一些問題百出的新聞。首先，我現在要跟你談的是，我看到原民會的第一個問題就是人力流動率非常驚人，在新莊聯合辦公大樓的不僅僅只有原民會，還有文化部跟職安署。原民會有198名正式人員，短短10個月裡面，異動了45個人，將近四分之一！我們對比文化部、職安署，他們都是以內部升遷為主，而原民會都是申請外調，高達了29個人，超過了六成，好可怕！你看到這個數據沒有？而今年1月行政院提出的霸凌案件報告也大聲疾呼，要落實總統改變職場文化、杜絕霸凌的政策指示，要確保公務體系能夠健康的運作，同時也承諾行政院院長要要求各機關，全面清查是不是存在霸凌行為，並且要迅速調查跟依法處理。請問主委，原民會這麼多人離開，代表原民會的職場環境是讓人待不下去的，大家不是升遷，而是紛紛逃離，你是不是有全面清查、調查，是不是有職場霸凌或者管理上的問題？"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝委員的指教。我要跟委員講，原民會的流動率這麼高不是現在才有，我來了以後才知道，因為原民會沒有宿舍，我們大部分的同仁都是從原鄉來的族人，甚至於他們在考試填志願的時候，也不太喜歡填原民會，因為這嚴重影響到他的生活。"],["高金委員素梅：主委，我在立法院已經23年了，原民會流動率第一次那麼高，您剛剛講的問題是長年存在的問題，這10個月當中還不到1年，所以你是不是可以在這邊承諾我要回去調查一下？可不可以一個月之內給我一些你們調查的書面報告？可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。現在我要跟你談業務執行，你們荒腔走板的例子比比皆是，我們就拿禁伐補償這個問題來說，去年本席在兩次的院會質詢，你一再護航，說禁伐補償的公務預算不足，可以用綜合發展基金來支應，可是事實是這樣嗎？沒有！貴會提出追加預算的申請，清楚寫說需要將近24億元，而我在今年也查了3月份最新的報表，我們的基金扣掉負債之後，可以動用的現金剩不到14億，這是根本不夠用的，您知道嗎？但是沒關係，主委，你應該知道，11月7號行政院長承諾，要用追加預算來補救禁伐補償。請問一下主委，今年9月我們的族人可以如期領到1公頃6萬塊的禁伐補償金嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝，可以，因為……"],["高金委員素梅：可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以，我們有提出追加預算，就是補足那個……"],["高金委員素梅：你已經提出追加預算了嘛？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["高金委員素梅：但是院長已經核定了嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：目前還沒有，但是我相信院長會。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝您，希望您的回答，院長聽到了。","我們再來看一下，剛剛三讀通過的原民會組織法裡面有關族群委員無給職的議題，原民會你們發新聞稿說，族群委員名單不是主委一個人一己意志之決定，而是依照各界公推，還有透過審查的結果。實際上根本沒有公開推薦的程序，絕大部分的族人也不清楚知道我們族群委員的功能是什麼，最後我們看到的就是一片「綠友友」，立委的助理國家養。另外族群委員的人事費，我們希望他改聘正式公務員的這個議題上，原民會你們又發新聞稿說，這個決議是沒有法律效力的，沒有辦法實質保障族人的權益，但是主委，你看一下人事行政總處在1月6號發函給原民會，要求你們配合修法，然後請你們評估人力的需求並且要循程序函報行政院。主委，這是你無視法律，還是你的幕僚在欺騙你，給你錯誤的訊息？"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員，我跟你報告，因為刪除掉了族群委員，當然對我們的一些行政量能真的是有很大的影響。"],["高金委員素梅：沒有，我現在跟你講的是我們刪除了這些無給職的預算之後，把這個錢拿去改聘為正式的公務員，而且我們的附帶決議也這麼說，可是你們卻說這個是沒有法律效力的，但人事行政總處已經告訴你們啦，要求你們配合啊！主委，所以你們真的實在是……你要進入狀況，我很擔心你的幕僚都在欺騙你。"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是欺騙啦！委員，我跟你講……"],["高金委員素梅：再來、再來，我們來看一下原基法……"],["曾主任委員智勇：族群委員的聘任，從以前就是這樣子進行。"],["高金委員素梅：主委、主委，人事總處已經告訴你了，它是有法律效力的啦，所以請你們原民會要配合修法，看到了沒有？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們也有配合，就是說有一些，我們希望………"],["高金委員素梅：已經請你配合修法。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，我們也跟人總……"],["高金委員素梅：再來，我現在跟你談的是原基法。原基法在104年增訂第二條之一，要求要設置部落公法人，可是民進黨執政這8年來生不出一個部落公法人，現在你們原民會生出了一個叫做什麼公法人試辦計畫，然後我們看到這個試辦計畫的草案，目前規劃是每一個部落要給它100萬，人事費就占了六成60萬，然後業務費占了四成40萬。請問一下主委，部落公法人試辦計畫是不是有限定部落的數額？"],["曾主任委員智勇：沒有，我跟委員報告，為什麼要有試辦計畫？因為講了這麼多年都沒有辦嘛！所以原住民的自治一直是停頓的，我希望找幾個部落，我們負責任的來找幾個部落，為什麼要找這幾個部落是有原因的，我們認為這個部落不管是村長代表、部落會議的主席，還有地方的核心幹部，可以比較能夠有一些共識，所以我們希望找這幾個部落做得成功之後，讓其他的部落也來看。"],["高金委員素梅：好了，主委，我聽到你的說法了，我覺得您的說法是沒有辦法說服族人的，因為你們沒有公開說明、沒有公開推薦、沒有公開審查，這是不是又是一個綠友友試辦版？然後部落應該是由下而上，不應該由原民會你們密室圈定啊！所以我在這邊要求你要公開決策、公平並建立民主參與跟資訊的透明機制，讓全國七百多個部落都有公平競爭的機會，畢竟人事費60萬、業務費40萬，這是100萬，不少的金額，對部落的族人來說，它會是另外一個人事的安排，不是嗎？好，接下來……"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是，我跟委員報告，這確實不是綠友友……"],["高金委員素梅：你剛剛已經說過了啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是綠友友的部落，這是……"],["高金委員素梅：那請問一下，你現在核定的這些部落，他們有公開說明嗎？現在核定的部落有幾個？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們有下去跟他們溝通做說明。"],["高金委員素梅：我們有七百多個部落裡面，你是怎麼樣公開跟大家來說呢？部落是如何來跟你原民會申報計畫呢？這些你都沒有說明啊。","接下來我要跟你談預算，在114年度的預算裡面，原民會你們的新聞稿又對外說什麼？對於推動族語教會的1億1,000萬元預算要採取凍結的措施，這嚴重衝擊到部落的發展。看到新聞稿，我真的是搖頭，我覺得你們原民會是不是人格分裂啦？因為我們在提這個提案的時候，說明清清楚楚，反映的是基層的現況，因為有族人向我及原民會教文處反映相同的意見，這個意見是什麼？就是針對推動落實族語生活化的執行意見。我們看一下同樣是執行落實族語生活化的族語保母政策，它有非常嚴謹的查核機制，還有訪視人員及專管中心，而族語教會沒有，甚至連審查族語教會核銷的會計師事務所都發出聲明，這個聲明說什麼？我們來看一下，非依照審計準則查核，因此對上述各接受獎勵單位，也就是各教會的運作情形整體是否允當表達不提供任何程度之確信。主委您看一下，連會計師事務所都不敢幫原民會跟教會背書了，這裡面是不是有很大的問題啊！所以本席就跟教文處一起開會，我們做出了結論，我們把這些預算先暫時凍結，然後修訂原住民族語言發展補助辦法，並讓族語教會、族語保母、語推組織等團體或者是個人未來都可以申請到原民會的經費補助，而且很重要的是不受年限的限制。主委你應該知道族語教會的政策是根據國家語言整體發展方案這個5年計畫，對嗎？到116年就沒有族語教會的政策了耶！所以我們修訂這個辦法就是為了未來我們的族語推廣政策可以更擴大適用對象，並且要常態性的補助、沒有年限的，主委您難道不支持嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，我們修改過這個補助辦法……"],["高金委員素梅：我知道。"],["曾主任委員智勇：一樣的，教會也要循這個辦法來進行補助，前面有審核……"],["高金委員素梅：這正是我要跟您說的。很好！主委您是支持的，因為這個新版的原住民族語言發展補助辦法在4月17號的時候已經按照所謂的解凍條件修正發布了，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["高金委員素梅：可見本席這個提案是有正當理由的，我們不是在為難你們機關，如今你們也已經辦理完成事項了，但是解凍報告還沒有送到立法院。主委，你當初都說了，凍結這個案會衝擊部落……"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，我們現在正在整理，很快就會提出來。"],["高金委員素梅：可是現在已經可以解凍了，你們卻沒有動作。"],["曾主任委員智勇：很快就會提出來，我們現在正在整理。"],["高金委員素梅：可是你的意見好像跟行政院長不太一樣耶！"],["曾主任委員智勇：沒有，因為前面沒有凍的我們有先處理……"],["高金委員素梅：所以你的意思是說你們會提出來，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們會提出來。"],["高金委員素梅：很好，內政委員會的召委是牛煦庭，我會請他趕快排，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，而且我要跟委員報告，我們要謝謝族語教會的貢獻。"],["高金委員素梅：同樣是114年的預算，我現在要跟你談的是南島民族論壇的問題。南島民族論壇的問題更是離譜，南島民族論壇從109年到114年，這是總共6年的計畫，從109年到113年已經花費公務預算2.2億，占全部公務預算2.5億的九成，所以我之前就請原民會提出效益分析，你們給我的報告裡面最重要的成果是什麼？PASIWALI音樂節對吧？但我仔細一看，PASIWALI音樂節根本不是用南島民族論壇的經費，你們怎麼可以移花接木提出這樣子的報告？然後你的新聞稿又講什麼？刪除預算勢必會嚴重打擊國際信任度跟外交處境，請問一下原民會，你們是外交部嗎？還是外交部他們連邦交都顧不好，然後要拜託你們去做？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，原民會……"],["高金委員素梅：我還沒請你回答，主委，我要問你南島民族論壇到底創造了多少部落的工作機會，為族人帶來了多少經濟效益？你不要再跟我講PASIWALI，PASIWALI不是用這筆預算喔！"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，這幾年來，我們跟南島語系國家，不管是帛琉、吐瓦魯或馬紹爾，我們原住民對國家有貢獻耶！其實這幾個國家的邦交也是我們在協助……"],["高金委員素梅：請問對部落創造了多少工作機會，帶來多少經濟效益？我們花了這麼多錢，總是要有一些經濟效益啊！"],["曾主任委員智勇：有啊！委員，我跟你講，這些國家有很多留學生在臺灣，甚至於很多的大使來，我們都請到部落去，讓他們真正地感受到原住民部落是怎麼樣的狀況……"],["高金委員素梅：帶來了多少經濟效益？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個部分是外交部做不到的，但我們做得到。"],["高金委員素梅：帶來了多少經濟效益？解決了多少部落的工作機會？你原民會是外交部啊？你原民會自己的本業都做不好了，用在族人身上的預算你們根本沒有辦法爭取到，還要我們這個在野的立法委員幫你們爭取，你們還想要做外交啊！"],["曾主任委員智勇：那些南島國家是我們自己的弟兄姊妹，我們沒有當作一定在做外交……"],["高金委員素梅：主委，你不是外交部，你是原民會，好嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們幫得上外交部的忙，我覺得原住民很驕傲啊！"],["高金委員素梅：不要在這邊辯解了，你不是外交部，你是原民會！","再來，原民會今年的預算是不是增加13億？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["高金委員素梅：好。我們是不是根本沒有刪你們的基本設施維持費？"],["曾主任委員智勇：基本設施維持費沒有刪。"],["高金委員素梅：好，沒有刪。預算增加，基本設施維持費也沒有刪，可是你們原民會竟然發公文恐嚇我們鄉鎮市公所說補助項目要先凍結50%，要回收重新核定、重新調整預算結構，後續要滾動調整。主委，你知道嗎？基本設施維持費是本席在立法院這23年來替原鄉的鄉長爭取的另外預算，你們現在說要凍結50%，然後要收回，全部要重新滾動調整，請問一下，你們為什麼要這麼做？"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員，我跟你講，即便是刪、即便是凍了預算，有關我們社福的經費，就是補助一些弱勢團體的，從來沒有斷過，但是這個基本設施維持費是公所基本設施一些維持要做……"],["高金委員素梅：立法院沒有刪除你們這筆預算，你們為什麼要公然地發公文給原鄉公所，說要凍結50%呢？"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員，但是我們要撙節預算啊！我們要撙節預算來看……就是也很誠懇地跟公所講……"],["高金委員素梅：請你們按照科目！"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們不是刪掉……"],["高金委員素梅：請你們按照科目！"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們只是先凍50%而已嘛！"],["高金委員素梅：我們沒有刪，也沒有凍結，你們憑什麼要凍結鄉公所這50%的預算！","現在我要再問您，我們根本沒有刪這筆預算，原民會的預算也增加了13億，你們也不斷地發新聞稿向國人說，推廣原住民族政策編列了政策宣導費用3,696萬元，也遭到我們在野黨全數刪除，該會未來就沒有辦法透過媒體來傳遞相關政策的資訊，導致族人錯失重要的權益。請問主委，我們沒有原民臺嗎？原民臺每年拿我們人民納稅錢5億，卻沒有辦法傳遞資訊嗎？而你們原民會的錯誤宣導只會混淆視聽、散布錯誤的資訊，預算明明是增加的，你們卻還敢說預算不夠，然後你們一邊又花大錢散布假消息，這樣的原民會，族人能夠接受嗎？你們這樣子胡搞瞎搞，難道立法委員不應該好好監督你們嗎？","然後我們看到在你們原民會惡意散布假消息之後，民進黨的側翼就接著混淆視聽了。請問主委，臺大原圖中心今年度流標是因為禁伐補償的關係還是因為財劃法的關係？你知道嗎？民進黨的側翼一直講是因為禁伐補償和財劃法的關係耶！你看一下簡報上的公文，原民會在1月23日回文告訴我，臺大原圖中心的流標是因為常年入館人次低、效益不彰，再加上推廣活動另外外包辦理，導致招標金額比去年少。請問是你說謊，還是民進黨的側翼在說謊？現在給你機會來澄清。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。你講的這個本來是在臺大來做，但是我們發包的時候……"],["高金委員素梅：你已經回文給我了，是因為它的入館人次效益不彰，所以不是禁伐補償跟財劃法的關係，對嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，但是它的額度太高，我們現在把它放到我們自己會裡面……"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。現在我要再跟你談財政收支劃分法，你們的新聞稿說財政收支劃分法的修法影響了運作，更將會嚴重衝擊原住民族地區鄉鎮市公所的財政跟地方建設的發展。請問一下，財政收支劃分法修了哪幾條？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我所知道的財政收支劃分法，如果……"],["高金委員素梅：修了幾條？你連修了幾條都講不出來，然後精算的結果會影響多少原鄉的財政你都不知道，你知道嗎……"],["曾主任委員智勇：會影響公所的財政啊。"],["高金委員素梅：我問過主計總處，主計總處告訴我原民會的預估只是可能衍生的情形，並不是實際的狀況，你連修了哪幾條也都沒有辦法講出實際狀況，你還要恐嚇族人？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是，如果修了財劃法……"],["高金委員素梅：主委，這是你應該做的事情嗎？你知道我提的財劃法是要求行政院額外找到支持原鄉需求的財源，請問你支持我的修法嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：額外給縣市政府……"],["高金委員素梅：好了，你不用轉了啦！謝謝，我請卓院長……"],["曾主任委員智勇：如果我們的額度一樣，公所不一定能夠……"],["高金委員素梅：韓院長，時間先暫停一下，好不好？"],["主席：時間暫停。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝，他也講不出個所以然來！我現在請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["高金委員素梅：主委，你要更加努力，我知道你很認真，但是你有一些幕僚真的在欺騙你。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：院長，你剛剛看到了，我舉了那麼多原民會的問題，它是嚴重失能，而且人力流失非常的嚴重，人事混亂、決策錯誤、假消息滿天飛，我在這邊要求你責成原民會在一個月之內，調查人員外流的原因，整頓人事團隊，並且要停止發布誤導性的新聞稿，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，請主委能夠一個月內調查人員外流的原因，同時對會內人事團隊要做精神上的鼓勵；至於有沒有發布誤導性的新聞，可以檢討，沒有的話要向委員說明。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝院長。","接著我要問你的是禁伐補償的問題，9月行政院遭到外界的批判之後，花了49天，你們認錯、補救了，現在114年度總預算也已經公布，原民會的追加預算也已經送到你行政院了。院長，請問一下追加預算什麼時候會送進立法院？"],["卓院長榮泰：禁伐補償預算不夠的問題，我們經過朝野黨團在行政院裡面溝通協調才達成共識……"],["高金委員素梅：有啊！你看一下，你簽名了！"],["卓院長榮泰：並不是行政院認錯，我們是協商。"],["高金委員素梅：你簽名了！好，我現在問你，族人最關心的是，到底能不能夠在9月份的時候領到1公頃6萬塊的補償金？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，現在針對美國關稅的調整、世界貿易重整，我們現在就這個階段，第一要向國人提出的，就是我們在這個禮拜之內要提出特別條例、特別預算……"],["高金委員素梅：我問您的是我的族人能不能拿到1公頃6萬塊，這不只是影響族人權益，還關係到你們政黨某位立法委員的政治承諾，請您聽一下。","（播放影片）"],["高金委員素梅：院長，這很嚴重耶！請問一下，9月份族人到底能不能領到1公頃6萬塊的補償金，剛剛主委說可以領得到。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在處理特別條例、特別預算之後，會統合整個今年度的總預算，到底被刪減的數字該怎麼處理之後，一併就整體的追加預算予以送出。"],["高金委員素梅：好。請問一下，監察院已經針對預算提出釋憲了，行政院要跟進嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院一定會對預算案跟財劃法一併、同時提出。"],["高金委員素梅：我問過主計總處，行政院一旦跟進，並且憲法法庭裁准暫時處分，就無法處理追加預算喔！即便剛剛我們考慮用綜合發展基金，可是到3月底可以動用的資金不到14億，遠遠沒有辦法支應24億的預算缺口。我再問你一次，請你正面的回答，我的族人9月份到底能不能領到1公頃6萬塊的補償金？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果行政院對預算案跟財劃法提出釋憲，如果提出釋憲也併同暫時處分的話，影響的就不只是這14億、24億而已，影響可能更大。"],["高金委員素梅：所以到底能不能領到？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會努力在特別條例、特別預算之後整合現在立法院要行政院自行刪除的部分，即現在還沒有辦法刪除，俟整合之後我們才能……"],["高金委員素梅：所以到底能不能領到？剛剛主委說可以領到；你們執政黨的委員說，如果沒有領到，他要辭職耶！我要請院長記住，不論是你也好，還是剛剛那一位執政黨立法委員也好，我們的族人如果不能夠在9月份如期領到1公頃6萬塊的補償金，後果你們要自己承擔，也請你們負起責任。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會整體考量行政院應提出多少的追加預算。"],["高金委員素梅：院長，接下來我要講的是當今全世界上最重要的事情，也是臺灣人民最關心的，那就是美國對等關稅的議題。從4月2號到現在，政府團隊在應對對等關稅這件事情上，你們不但錯估形勢，而且手忙腳亂……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有錯估形勢。"],["高金委員素梅：你們也沒有做好最好的準備、做最壞的打算，你們只知道盲目的順從美國政府的號令，比起民進黨政府被動的被川普吃乾抹淨，我覺得新加坡總理黃循財先生的態度更令我尊敬，我們看一下黃總理4月8號在國會的發言，他說他對於美國宣布向新加坡徵收10%的對等關稅感到失望，他說星美有深厚的友誼，這不是對朋友應該有的行為，他還說美國只著重於貨物貿易，但是實際上美國跟許多服務貿易夥伴都保持著順差，美國向世界出口軟體服務、教育、娛樂、金融和商業服務等等，我們可以看到，儘管新加坡政府也宣布不在對等關稅上面來報復美國，但是黃總理不卑不亢，他誠懇地說了實話。為什麼民進黨就不能夠對這個所謂的堅若磐石的朋友表示失望？你們為什麼不能夠用朋友的道義來要求美國呢？而這樣的友誼難道不該懷疑嗎？我在這5年來一直針對美國的對臺政策向你們發出警示，我們為什麼要開放萊豬進口？我們為什麼要放寬美國農藥殘留量的管制？我們為什麼要接受美國提出來的臺灣學人法案，然後讓美國官員到我們的政府工作？我們為什麼要簽署那個對我們貿易談判根本非常不利的臺美貿易倡議？我們為什麼要用九成以上的外匯存底大把大把的去買美債？而我的這些疑問其實總結起來就是一句話，一味的依靠美國就是死路一條，但是縱使我說了這麼多，民進黨政府就是不聽，美國政府說什麼，民進黨政府就做什麼，你們還貼標籤說我是疑美論，結果川普政府現在所做的行為在我們看來就是疑美啊！懷疑美國是必要的，因為只有這樣，我們才能夠獨立自主的做出最有利於人民的判斷，這一次的對等關稅對臺灣人民來說是災難，而我們的賴總統卻要人民吃苦當吃補，院長，不向美國報復並不等於就該全面投降，您認為呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣當然不會向任何一個國家投降，包括美國、包括中國在內，但是對於川普總統這個新的關稅政策，我們在4月4號的記者會當中就說過了，這是一個不合理的計算公式，我們一定會提出嚴正的反應，我們都說過了。"],["高金委員素梅：很好，在4月，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：在4月4號。"],["高金委員素梅：對，但是我們賴總統已經把底限都告訴美國了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不會採取報復的政策。"],["高金委員素梅：在4月15號有委員在質詢你的時候問你政府是不是有考慮要加碼持有美債，你說內部是有準備的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們對任何選項都有討論，不一定採行這樣的方式。"],["高金委員素梅：我們看一下，最近外傳美國可能要逼迫美債的債權人將所持有的美債換成100年期的零息債券，針對這件事情，中央銀行總裁楊金龍也有回應說，如果真的是這樣的轉換，那就相當於是美債的倒債了，那你之前有說關於加碼持有美債，政府內部有準備，請問是準備什麼？是加碼呢？還是轉換呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，應該要更正，我說我們任何的選項都在，而到底會不會用……"],["高金委員素梅：我現在問你的是美債的問題，你們準備怎麼樣？你們是加碼還是轉換？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，它當然也是一個選項，但是我們如果在我們的方案裡面沒有提出來，那就不是我們的方案啊！"],["高金委員素梅：所以你認為購買美債、再加碼美債不是你們的方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是一個選項，但是我們如果最後綜整沒有提出來，那就不是我們選取的內容了。"],["高金委員素梅：好，院長，我要在這裡告訴您，不管是加碼還是轉換，結果都是楊金龍總裁所說的倒債，而經過川普這樣的震撼教育，臺灣全民其實都聰明了，大家都在看，也都在等，不是您在這邊一直三言兩語撥開重點的這種答詢態度，我想臺灣人民現在正面臨生死存亡的大事，所以我們要非常嚴肅的看待這樣的事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們非常嚴肅。"],["高金委員素梅：有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也在4月4號所提出的9個面向、20項措施當中，也告訴國人我們對產業的支持。所以我們先前是有準備的，我們也提升了，我們現在的策略是備妥所有協調談判的方案內容，隨時準備啟動，在第一次正式視訊會議之後，隨時準備下一次任何形式的談判。"],["高金委員素梅：請問第一次視訊會議你們的結論是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們說過了，雙方對於對等關稅、非關稅貿易障礙以及包括出口管制在內的多項議題都進行了交換意見，現在我們要把這些意見綜整之後，等待下一次應該很快就會到來的跟美方進行的談判。"],["高金委員素梅：第二次談判會是什麼時候？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為美方還要針對很多的國家，但是我敢跟委員說，我們已經是在優先的國家行列當中。"],["高金委員素梅：多優先？"],["卓院長榮泰：很優先。"],["高金委員素梅：多優先？美國有告訴你什麼時候嗎？你們不是堅若磐石嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為第一波的國家大概應該都已經接觸，像日本，他也接觸過了，其他也接觸過了，我們認為我們會爭取最優先的時間。"],["高金委員素梅：你們認為會是在什麼時候？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是我能……"],["高金委員素梅：9月以後嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：9月以後就超過90天了。"],["高金委員素梅：還是9月之前？"],["卓院長榮泰：9月之前，當然是之前。"],["高金委員素梅：好，最後我還是要說，不向美國低頭並不等於就該全面投降，好嗎？請你們堅持！謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：不利國家的，我們不會選擇。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝高金素梅委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及原委會的備詢。","接下來登記第10號李坤城委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員李坤城書面質詢：","（內政組）","案由：本院委員李坤城有鑑於「移民署日前約談主張台灣回歸的中配「小微」後，「小微」竟然在抖音上祝慶勝利，完全無視台灣法律，更在抖音上嗆說，不要多費力氣，浪費台灣資源了，最後看看我有沒有事」，此舉，導致頻頻批判移民署無能。移民署的署長信箱和電話都被灌爆，還有網友貼出移民署專辦中配約談單位的電話，移民署還制式對來電或是留言的民眾表示，一切都依法進行處理，感謝您的關心。然而，中配對外宣傳及主張以武力消滅台灣主權之言論，顯已涉及違法，主管機關須依法嚴辦，不該悶著挨打，甚至對於憤恨不平之民眾也冷漠以對。爰此，要求行政院三日內責成內政部，除依法辦理、依法驅離之外，更應儘速研議加嚴修法，俾避免中配「亞亞」、「小微」、「恩綺」事件一再發生。綜上所述，敬請行政院於兩週內詳復及送交書面報告至本席辦公室為禱。"],["主席：接下來請登記第11號伍麗華委員質詢。劉書彬委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","林國成","麥玉珍","翁曉玲","林宜瑾","盧縣一","林月琴","高金素梅","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","劉書彬","陳永康","林俊憲","徐巧芯"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1143701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143701_00012"}}}