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0.993}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 371.372, \"end\": 371.832, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 371.832, \"end\": 371.992, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 371.992, \"end\": 372.112, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 372.112, \"end\": 372.232, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 372.232, \"end\": 372.272, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 372.272, \"end\": 372.292, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 372.292, \"end\": 372.412, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 372.412, \"end\": 372.472, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 372.472, \"end\": 372.572, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 372.572, \"end\": 372.592, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 374.893, \"end\": 404.105, \"text\": \"新聞報導說中選會目前已經告發41件涉嫌死亡連署偽造連署的罷免案但是這41件數字目前是正確的嗎是好那這41件裡面是不是有罷藍委罷綠委包含罷綠預言都有告發有都有告發對不對所以不分藍綠都辦我認為這是一種行政中立就你們角度是嗎報告是是好再來目前告發的41件是不是都是屬於一階的連署\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 374.893, \"end\": 375.994, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 375.994, \"end\": 376.574, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 376.574, \"end\": 376.774, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 376.774, \"end\": 376.974, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 376.974, \"end\": 377.334, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 377.334, \"end\": 378.895, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 378.895, \"end\": 379.515, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 379.515, \"end\": 379.775, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"嫌\", \"start\": 379.775, \"end\": 380.115, 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\"end\": 399.063, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 399.063, \"end\": 399.343, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 399.343, \"end\": 400.103, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 400.103, \"end\": 400.523, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 400.523, \"end\": 400.764, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 400.764, \"end\": 401.024, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 401.024, \"end\": 401.404, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 401.404, \"end\": 402.084, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 402.084, \"end\": 402.384, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 402.384, \"end\": 402.524, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 402.524, \"end\": 402.664, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 402.664, \"end\": 402.824, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 402.824, \"end\": 402.984, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 402.984, \"end\": 403.124, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 403.124, \"end\": 403.385, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 403.385, \"end\": 403.725, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 403.725, \"end\": 404.085, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 404.085, \"end\": 404.105, \"score\": 0.059}]}, {\"start\": 405.511, \"end\": 416.942, \"text\": \"目前都是屬於提議階段的提議階段好那補件的部分是不是也會也是包含在這裡頭補件的部分也包括在這裡面好所以這41件聽起來就是有罷綠委有罷藍委還有罷綠的議員然後包含一階連署還有包含補件的部分都是這樣那我接下來幫大家請問全台灣人民現在最關心的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 405.511, \"end\": 405.792, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 405.792, \"end\": 406.272, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 406.272, \"end\": 406.492, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 406.492, \"end\": 406.933, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 406.933, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"亡\", \"start\": 684.954, \"end\": 685.354, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 685.354, \"end\": 685.574, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 685.574, \"end\": 686.114, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 686.114, \"end\": 686.475, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 686.475, \"end\": 686.975, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 686.975, \"end\": 687.215, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 687.215, \"end\": 687.955, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"腦\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 687.955, \"end\": 688.416, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 688.416, \"end\": 688.976, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 688.976, \"end\": 689.476, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 689.476, \"end\": 689.757, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 689.757, \"end\": 690.137, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 690.137, \"end\": 690.357, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 690.357, \"end\": 690.657, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 690.657, \"end\": 691.538, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 691.538, \"end\": 691.798, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 691.798, \"end\": 692.178, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 692.178, \"end\": 692.438, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 692.438, \"end\": 692.718, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 692.718, \"end\": 692.838, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 692.838, \"end\": 692.858, \"score\": 0.073}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}]}, {\"start\": 694.079, \"end\": 720.593, \"text\": \"也就是如果陳培宇今天要去簽一張罷免聯署書但是我可能最後簽名的時候簽的是別人的名字為什麼會發生這個狀況李泰鑫說選委會台北市選委會如果一旦收到中選會所交付第一階段也就是提議階段的聯署書名冊會交給戶政事務所去查對是不是有死亡有沒有在籍而這一次死亡聯署就是台北市戶政事務所查出來的這個他們的說法請問中選會是正確的嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 694.079, \"end\": 694.219, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 694.219, \"end\": 694.339, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 694.339, \"end\": 694.499, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 694.499, \"end\": 694.519, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 694.519, \"end\": 694.839, \"score\": 0.589}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"培\", \"start\": 694.839, \"end\": 694.98, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"宇\", \"start\": 694.98, \"end\": 695.1, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 695.1, \"end\": 695.22, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 695.22, \"end\": 695.32, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 695.32, \"end\": 695.4, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 695.4, \"end\": 695.8, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 695.8, \"end\": 696.4, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"罷\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 696.4, \"end\": 696.901, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 696.901, \"end\": 697.061, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 697.061, \"end\": 697.221, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 697.221, \"end\": 697.321, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 697.321, \"end\": 697.461, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 697.461, \"end\": 697.581, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 697.581, \"end\": 697.721, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 697.721, \"end\": 698.001, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 698.001, \"end\": 698.141, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 698.141, \"end\": 698.281, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 698.281, \"end\": 698.381, \"score\": 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701.783, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"泰\", \"start\": 701.783, \"end\": 701.943, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"鑫\", \"start\": 701.943, \"end\": 702.984, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 702.984, \"end\": 703.404, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 703.404, \"end\": 703.704, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 703.704, \"end\": 703.844, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 703.844, \"end\": 704.184, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 704.184, \"end\": 704.584, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 704.584, \"end\": 704.765, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 704.765, \"end\": 704.945, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 704.945, \"end\": 705.085, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"旦\", \"start\": 705.085, \"end\": 705.285, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 705.285, \"end\": 705.425, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 705.425, \"end\": 705.665, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 705.665, \"end\": 706.305, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 706.305, \"end\": 706.505, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 706.505, \"end\": 706.726, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 706.726, \"end\": 706.866, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 706.866, \"end\": 706.986, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 706.986, \"end\": 707.286, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 707.286, \"end\": 707.506, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 707.506, \"end\": 707.666, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 707.666, \"end\": 707.786, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 707.786, \"end\": 707.926, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 707.926, \"end\": 708.406, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 708.406, \"end\": 708.547, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 708.547, \"end\": 708.827, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 708.827, \"end\": 709.547, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 709.547, \"end\": 710.628, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"冊\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 710.628, \"end\": 711.468, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 711.468, \"end\": 711.748, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 711.748, \"end\": 712.108, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 712.108, \"end\": 712.288, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 712.288, \"end\": 712.469, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 712.469, \"end\": 713.269, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 713.269, \"end\": 713.389, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 713.389, \"end\": 713.469, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 713.469, \"end\": 713.609, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 713.609, \"end\": 713.849, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 713.849, \"end\": 714.009, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"亡\", \"start\": 714.009, \"end\": 714.39, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 714.39, \"end\": 714.51, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 714.51, \"end\": 714.65, \"score\": 0.564}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 714.65, \"end\": 714.79, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 714.79, \"end\": 715.09, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 715.09, \"end\": 715.61, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 715.61, \"end\": 715.91, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 715.91, \"end\": 716.05, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 716.05, \"end\": 716.311, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 716.311, \"end\": 716.431, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"亡\", \"start\": 716.431, \"end\": 716.831, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 716.831, \"end\": 717.151, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 717.151, \"end\": 717.551, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 717.551, \"end\": 717.851, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 717.851, \"end\": 718.051, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 718.051, \"end\": 718.231, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 718.231, \"end\": 718.652, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 718.652, \"end\": 718.932, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 718.932, \"end\": 719.252, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 719.252, \"end\": 719.472, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 719.472, \"end\": 719.732, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 719.732, \"end\": 719.832, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 719.832, \"end\": 719.892, \"score\": 0.418}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 719.892, \"end\": 720.092, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 720.092, \"end\": 720.233, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 720.233, \"end\": 720.453, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 720.453, \"end\": 720.473, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 720.473, \"end\": 720.493, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 720.493, \"end\": 720.573, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 720.573, \"end\": 720.593, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 726.172, \"end\": 740.884, \"text\": \"台北市選委會說是你們把資料交給台北市選委會去核對資料而台北市選委會把資料交給戶政事務所去查核這個人有沒有死亡這個人有沒有在籍他說法是對的嗎程序上是這個程序上是對的好來下一張\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 726.172, \"end\": 726.412, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 726.412, \"end\": 726.612, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 726.612, \"end\": 727.113, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 727.113, \"end\": 727.793, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 727.793, \"end\": 727.933, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 727.933, \"end\": 728.114, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 728.114, \"end\": 728.494, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 728.494, \"end\": 728.734, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 728.734, \"end\": 729.134, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 729.134, \"end\": 729.255, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 729.255, \"end\": 729.355, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 729.355, \"end\": 729.675, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 729.675, \"end\": 729.955, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 729.955, \"end\": 730.115, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 730.115, \"end\": 730.736, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 730.736, \"end\": 730.896, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 730.896, \"end\": 730.996, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 730.996, \"end\": 731.116, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 731.116, \"end\": 731.196, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 731.196, \"end\": 731.496, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 731.496, \"end\": 731.817, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 731.817, \"end\": 732.157, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 732.157, \"end\": 732.437, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 732.437, \"end\": 733.078, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 733.078, \"end\": 733.318, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 733.318, \"end\": 733.618, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 733.618, \"end\": 734.079, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 734.079, \"end\": 734.319, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 734.319, \"end\": 734.539, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 734.539, \"end\": 735.059, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 735.059, \"end\": 735.119, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 735.119, \"end\": 735.159, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 735.159, \"end\": 735.239, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 735.239, \"end\": 735.38, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 735.38, \"end\": 735.52, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"亡\", \"start\": 735.52, \"end\": 735.98, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 735.98, \"end\": 736.08, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 736.08, \"end\": 736.16, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 736.16, \"end\": 736.18, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 736.18, \"end\": 736.24, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 736.24, \"end\": 736.521, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 736.521, \"end\": 736.681, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 736.681, \"end\": 737.061, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 737.061, \"end\": 737.201, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 737.201, \"end\": 737.541, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 737.541, \"end\": 738.042, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 738.042, \"end\": 738.302, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 738.302, \"end\": 738.562, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 738.562, \"end\": 738.842, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 738.842, \"end\": 739.303, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 739.303, \"end\": 739.503, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 739.503, \"end\": 739.663, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 739.663, \"end\": 739.843, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 739.843, \"end\": 740.204, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 740.204, \"end\": 740.324, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 740.324, \"end\": 740.644, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 740.644, \"end\": 740.864, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 740.864, \"end\": 740.884, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"張\"}]}, {\"start\": 742.441, \"end\": 767.578, \"text\": \"我們看到在國民黨送交的不實聯署文件當中甚至昨天新聞媒體還說有聯署人的名字跟他們的黨員名冊是一樣的可是住址不對仔細一看呢 把黨員名冊拿過來對照發現資料那個地址剛好抄錯也就是第一行跟第二行 馬上壞掉了 抄不對連抄都抄不好 把解答拿給他寫 都寫不好這是現在我們看到的狀況所以我想要接著請問總選會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 742.441, \"end\": 742.661, \"score\": 0.647}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 742.661, \"end\": 742.861, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 742.861, \"end\": 743.001, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 743.001, \"end\": 743.262, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 743.262, \"end\": 743.662, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 743.662, \"end\": 743.942, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 743.942, \"end\": 744.202, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 744.202, \"end\": 744.322, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 744.322, \"end\": 744.863, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 744.863, \"end\": 745.063, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 745.063, \"end\": 745.323, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"件\", 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\"看\", \"start\": 767.078, \"end\": 767.238, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 767.238, \"end\": 767.338, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 767.338, \"end\": 767.358, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 767.358, \"end\": 767.378, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 767.378, \"end\": 767.398, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 767.398, \"end\": 767.498, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 767.498, \"end\": 767.518, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 767.518, \"end\": 767.538, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 767.538, \"end\": 767.558, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 767.558, \"end\": 767.578, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 770.72, \"end\": 779.604, \"text\": \"一階段罷免的查核確認你剛剛說了是由地方縣市政府的選委會負責處理而不是中選會對不對那如果是按照你所說的這樣目前在罷綠委罷藍委的部分他不管縣市政府的執政縣市首長是藍營還是綠營我認為他們應該都會保持行政中立去做確實的查核對嗎這個部分中選會對於地方的選委會有沒有這樣的信心\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 770.72, \"end\": 771.08, \"score\": 0.616}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 771.08, \"end\": 771.44, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"罷\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 771.44, \"end\": 771.6, \"score\": 0.553}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 771.6, \"end\": 771.801, \"score\": 0.56}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 771.801, \"end\": 772.061, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 772.061, \"end\": 772.661, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 772.661, \"end\": 773.301, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 773.301, \"end\": 773.461, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 773.461, \"end\": 773.581, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 773.581, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.48}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 778.483, \"end\": 778.503, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 778.503, \"end\": 778.623, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 778.623, \"end\": 778.643, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 778.643, \"end\": 778.663, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 778.663, \"end\": 778.703, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 778.703, \"end\": 778.723, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 778.723, \"end\": 778.883, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 778.883, \"end\": 779.003, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 779.003, \"end\": 779.023, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 779.023, \"end\": 779.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 779.043, \"end\": 779.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 779.063, 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0.821}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 1307.61, \"end\": 1307.81, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1307.81, \"end\": 1307.91, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 1307.91, \"end\": 1307.93, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,001 --> 00:00:25,239\n好謝謝主席那有請法務部還有中選會麻煩部長中選會委員早好部長早我們等一下中選會\n\n2\n00:00:28,430 --> 00:00:57,435\n好那我們就開始喔那既然要來談關於今天的專題報告我認為我們應該回溯一下最近一次公職人員選舉罷免辦法的修法過程我們來看一下之前呢國民黨的委員曾經說這個相關的辦法修法沒有時間表大家可以好好的討論可是呢在上個會期卻在相關的委員會把所有的民進黨委員關在裡面只有少數的國民黨委員在裡面而且不到三分鐘就把這個修法的草案送出委員會\n\n3\n00:00:58,235 --> 00:01:22,907\n那當然之後呢更是用粗暴的方法通過相關法案我們來看一下當時呢他們的修法提案是怎麼說的他們說公職人員選舉罷免法相關的事件屢屢出現相同筆記的連署還說有死亡者的提議的連署會讓有心人士藉由這個連署的動作呢收集到大量個資然後假冒提議連署\n\n4\n00:01:24,308 --> 00:01:41,293\n所以呢他們認為缺乏代表性而且徐玉珍委員提案委員他還說違反個人資料保護所以他們就提出了這個修法這個是發生在立法院的事情好對比於現在我們來看到相關的數字我認為真的是不勝唏噓來下一張\n\n5\n00:01:43,274 --> 00:02:04,159\n除了相關數字之外呢國民黨號稱法學專家的翁小玲委員她自己在當時三讀通過的時候這是她的上台發言她說我在這裡要警告那些打算大抄特抄連署造假的罷免團體不要以為說未造連署會沒有事然後她就巴拉巴拉又講了很多\n\n6\n00:02:04,619 --> 00:02:21,759\n他提醒大家他身為法學專家他想要提醒大家他說未來只要有連署假冒的相關人士要處五年以下的有期徒刑拘役還有病科一百萬元以下罰金同時還提醒大家可能違反各自法相關規定\n\n7\n00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:48,331\n再次提醒他還說法律追溯其實20年請大家不要以身試法挑戰法律的界限我想要問一下這是翁小玲委員當時說而且他認為他提醒大家他說全台灣人民都要來支持像這樣子的良善制度這是國民黨的不分區翁小玲委員揭示這一次的修法核心意旨他認為這些事情非常非常的重要\n\n8\n00:02:48,971 --> 00:03:07,179\n昨天的新聞我們看到中選會你們表態說在新法生效以前所有發起的罷免案都還是適用舊法的規定但我認為不論是新法還是舊法所有的罷免連署我們要避免就是造假\n\n9\n00:03:07,839 --> 00:03:37,154\n死亡還有重複提議我認為這件事情不論新法舊法所有維護台灣法治維護台灣民主的人都會認為是重要的事情對嗎部長您覺得這個死亡連署或者是違照那個未經同意違照他的簽章來做一個連署或提議的話那這個的確是反派罷免或選舉的一個行為那這個是嚴重腐蝕民主政治的一個機制我想這個立法這個是我們是贊同的好\n\n10\n00:03:37,774 --> 00:03:53,559\n在立法的角度你是贊同的所以他們的國民黨通過這個版本那我們來看一下之後呢在國民黨的羅志強委員他的二階連署被通過之後他在新聞媒體上公開的呼籲我們現在相關的報導用的是聯合報的報導聯合報裡面說羅志強委員提醒大家說今日用力操明月吐塵看守所等你\n\n11\n00:04:02,401 --> 00:04:29,507\n他還提醒大家今日為了迎頭小利出賣靈魂明日就要為了今日所做的行為付出代價呼應部長您剛說的這確實是違法的樣態大家都要很小心很注意我也認為這個不論是任何政治形態支持者或者是所有霸團之間大家都有這個共識也就是有做了違法的事情我們就是要調查就是要處理對嗎好我們來看一下\n\n12\n00:04:30,387 --> 00:04:32,708\n根據這個中選會的資料我們來看到國民黨的黨團我認為他們為了剝奪人民罷免的權利他們在這一次的修法當中加嚴罷免的連署書門檻可是我認為可笑的是所有要罷綠委的提議\n\n13\n00:04:49,372 --> 00:05:13,056\n都敢在新法生效前趕快送出第一階段連署我認為國民黨人自己也不敢面對新法剛剛您說的加重刑罰那個部分我認為他們自己也不敢面對所以我想問一下中選會截至目前為止有任何的罷免連署案是適用於修法後嗎還是目前所有的罷免連署提議案都是適用舊法\n\n14\n00:05:13,632 --> 00:05:29,358\n包括委員都是適用舊法全部嘛對不對好那現在我們看到民間還有消息在說罷免陳玉珍委員第一階段沒有成功可是有人開始發送意願調查表可能也會發動後續連署所以後續送進來是不是就適用新法\n\n15\n00:05:29,898 --> 00:05:54,385\n報告是好適用心法所以講得很清楚所以國立黨黨團自己當時的修法規定連署要附身分證我認為搞不好真的附身分證他們今天就不會有這麼多死亡連署因為死人拿不出身分證我們來看一下下面這張表格是我們辦公室自己整理的加上中選會現在公佈的資料罷率我們看到最可笑的部分罷藍委的最低合格率\n\n16\n00:05:55,245 --> 00:06:12,592\n都還高過罷律委的最高合格率這代表什麼意思你們再看這個表格你們研究一下這個表格我們要看到荒謬的是合格率死亡連署的問題如果是這一次我們看到所有罷免名冊最大大家認為最有法律爭議的問題我想要先問中選會\n\n17\n00:06:14,893 --> 00:06:44,105\n新聞報導說中選會目前已經告發41件涉嫌死亡連署偽造連署的罷免案但是這41件數字目前是正確的嗎是好那這41件裡面是不是有罷藍委罷綠委包含罷綠預言都有告發有都有告發對不對所以不分藍綠都辦我認為這是一種行政中立就你們角度是嗎報告是是好再來目前告發的41件是不是都是屬於一階的連署\n\n18\n00:06:45,511 --> 00:06:56,942\n目前都是屬於提議階段的提議階段好那補件的部分是不是也會也是包含在這裡頭補件的部分也包括在這裡面好所以這41件聽起來就是有罷綠委有罷藍委還有罷綠的議員然後包含一階連署還有包含補件的部分都是這樣那我接下來幫大家請問全台灣人民現在最關心的\n\n19\n00:07:08,672 --> 00:07:33,476\n接下來二階就馬上要送進來的不管是四月底或是五月初是不是我們後續也會依照這個行政中立的部分針對我們認為有偽造連署、死亡連署、造假連署的部分依法告發報告委員因為在連署的部分一樣有偽造的部分的一個審查所以如果這一部分也有死亡連署的部分的話我們還是會依法告發\n\n20\n00:07:33,916 --> 00:08:01,992\n好謝謝中選會行政中立依法告發不管是罷免是哪一個黨派的委員或者是議員接下來我請問法務部當中選會依法告發之後你們是不是都要調查處理我們檢察機關接到中選會的高案件都會立案來偵辦那這部分就是有問必查有據必辦覺得秉持檢察罪有犯罪嫌疑就要啟動調查這個沒有任何的立場\n\n21\n00:08:02,492 --> 00:08:18,005\n好一樣謝謝你的回覆不要有任何的立場該辦就辦我認為這才是維護台灣民主自由最重要的基礎我想要講一個一般人可能比較聽得懂的例子如果在全台灣一萬個人當中有一個人身上他有一到兩張的尾鈔我們可能會覺得那個是意外或是他在買賣買賣東西付現金的過程當中拿到這個尾鈔一萬個人當中有一個人他身上一到兩張\n\n22\n00:08:31,135 --> 00:08:46,015\n可是如果我們在某一群一兩百個人當中一萬個人當中有一兩百個人他們身上同時都有好幾張的偽鈔那我們就要懷疑他有沒有可能是組織犯罪我自己認為現在所有的\n\n23\n00:08:46,536 --> 00:09:11,725\n不當的這些連署也就是我說的罷律委的這些不當的數字裡面他們的合格率這麼低然後他們的造假率這麼高我認為就是我剛剛說的身上持有偽鈔疑似有可能是組織犯罪所以我非常謝謝部長您剛剛的回答就是依法調查在中選會依法告發之後我覺得這件事情非常重要來下一張我剛剛講的是第一階段提議的時候送件\n\n24\n00:09:12,925 --> 00:09:40,630\n補件的部分我們來看以蘇喬惠委員被罷免的例子提案的罷免例子來說不合格率高達45%提議前死亡31重複提議244未簽名或蓋章131居住期間太短197我覺得最可笑最荒謬的是連補件都補不好給你補考都補不好照抄都抄不好超過10%這個狀況我想問一下法務部跟中學會你們怎麼看補件還出現像這樣的狀況\n\n25\n00:09:47,301 --> 00:09:55,043\n好你們行政中立我就不讓你們回答但是我要提醒你們來往下看現在有人自己公開說對我就是超明策\n\n26\n00:09:56,395 --> 00:10:21,233\n這個是罷免許志傑的領銜人朱磊電視螢幕大家都看見了他說黨安排黨員抄黨員名冊有錯嗎一個黨如果不容許黨員抄名單那還叫黨嗎他說黨員不是普通民眾他在黨的利益面前是沒有個資可言的我剛剛為什麼要回溯修法的過程個資法這件事情國民黨視之為無物啊下一張\n\n27\n00:10:23,667 --> 00:10:51,188\n國民黨的大佬趙少康董事長前中廣董事長他說有沒有抄名單人家問他他說我認為會有啦因為有很多是國民黨員他說還有死亡名單他自己都說囉他還說可是應該沒有嚴重到要把人關起來吧所以為什麼我剛剛要請教中選會到底是適用舊法還是新法因為目前我認為有非常多國民黨的支持者他們在擔心會不會他們的名單被拿去抄\n\n28\n00:10:52,009 --> 00:11:06,574\n然後他們就變成那個犯罪嫌疑人我覺得這件事情是非常非常可怕的也就是說不管是朱磊或是趙少康他們都不是所謂的綠營側翼而他們都在螢幕受訪的時候公開間接證實有超明側下一張\n\n29\n00:11:11,926 --> 00:11:32,858\n大家就很好奇啦這個造假或是死亡提議到底是誰糾舉出來的可能很多人搞不清楚相關程序喔感謝台北市選委會主委李泰鑫他說死亡連署是戶政事務所用電腦核對出來的甚至還有查出連簽名的時候名字都簽錯\n\n30\n00:11:34,079 --> 00:12:00,593\n也就是如果陳培宇今天要去簽一張罷免聯署書但是我可能最後簽名的時候簽的是別人的名字為什麼會發生這個狀況李泰鑫說選委會台北市選委會如果一旦收到中選會所交付第一階段也就是提議階段的聯署書名冊會交給戶政事務所去查對是不是有死亡有沒有在籍而這一次死亡聯署就是台北市戶政事務所查出來的這個他們的說法請問中選會是正確的嗎\n\n31\n00:12:06,172 --> 00:12:20,884\n台北市選委會說是你們把資料交給台北市選委會去核對資料而台北市選委會把資料交給戶政事務所去查核這個人有沒有死亡這個人有沒有在籍他說法是對的嗎程序上是這個程序上是對的好來下一張\n\n32\n00:12:22,441 --> 00:12:47,578\n我們看到在國民黨送交的不實聯署文件當中甚至昨天新聞媒體還說有聯署人的名字跟他們的黨員名冊是一樣的可是住址不對仔細一看呢把黨員名冊拿過來對照發現資料那個地址剛好抄錯也就是第一行跟第二行馬上壞掉了抄不對連抄都抄不好把解答拿給他寫都寫不好這是現在我們看到的狀況所以我想要接著請問總選會\n\n33\n00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:59,604\n一階段罷免的查核確認你剛剛說了是由地方縣市政府的選委會負責處理而不是中選會對不對那如果是按照你所說的這樣目前在罷綠委罷藍委的部分他不管縣市政府的執政縣市首長是藍營還是綠營我認為他們應該都會保持行政中立去做確實的查核對嗎這個部分中選會對於地方的選委會有沒有這樣的信心\n\n34\n00:13:17,911 --> 00:13:42,944\n報告有因為我們都是依法辦理選務而且希望說在辦理的過程當中我們能夠維持選務中立這樣子的一個形象好謝謝你的呼籲我也呼籲各地方的選委會要在中選會的呼籲下保持行政中立他們不是只有做這個事情國民黨人呢接下來做妨礙司法公正的事情我們來看一下真的是讓我不知道怎麼教小孩過去做親子教育做了20年\n\n35\n00:13:44,105 --> 00:13:56,034\n我來問一下法務部這些人國民黨朱立倫蔣萬安楊志宇謝龍介等一干立法委員在禁制區集會有沒有違法\n\n36\n00:13:57,213 --> 00:14:12,452\n法務部在集會遊行第六條集會遊行部的在各級法院周邊來做一個舉行好所以是有違法的嗎這個違法這部分那個中正議會已經報北京人指揮了好中正議分局會報備已經報台北京人指揮偵辦已經北京人分他案來\n\n37\n00:14:16,437 --> 00:14:33,483\n分他案處理了而且當天我看不懂的是警察聚巧性的舉牌這個我就不說了但是我真的看不懂的是台北市長蔣萬安他仍在現場他講了一句話我讀了一個禮拜我還是讀不懂他說今晚我個人的行為所有的責任我個人自己承擔\n\n38\n00:14:35,665 --> 00:14:36,726\n這部分我想那個\n\n39\n00:14:55,136 --> 00:15:08,363\n我認為好你答不出來我幫你答啦我認為今天如果一個公務員可以說他個人的行為個人承擔那他就開始從事違法行為可以這樣嗎我身為一個立法委員我在立法院的問政過程當中我有言論免責權\n\n40\n00:15:09,924 --> 00:15:32,932\n但是我不可以站到街口隨便一個地方然後說我陳培宇不代表立法委員我代表我個人我可以隨便的毀謗侮辱任何人嗎不行嘛所以什麼叫做個人違法行為他自己承擔我看不懂結果你也看不懂謝謝你剛剛神秘的微笑我認為在這一場違法集會當中更荒謬的是有一些立法者\n\n41\n00:15:33,852 --> 00:15:41,147\n立法委員帶頭違法集會到底我們這個國家的法治要怎麼執行下去部長很難對不對\n\n42\n00:15:44,619 --> 00:16:11,577\n好沒關係你答不出來我也答不出來齁我真的很想知道為什麼接下來更可笑的事情出現了齁國民黨的智庫副執行長朱立倫的子弟兵林濤在他的臉書上面說檢警要在禮拜一的下午就是4月21號那一天他先發了一個文然後瘋傳沒辦法轉這個文說禮拜一下午3點檢警要衝進國民黨中央黨部搜索這個新聞第一時間是這樣後來呢\n\n43\n00:16:14,139 --> 00:16:35,368\n你們發了一個新聞稿說沒有這件事情到了下午四點林濤就說啊他們改成送這個公文所以是作賊心虛說你們作賊心虛你可不可以說一下難道違法都不可以跳牆嗎難道違法帶頭作亂的人都只能裝成自己是政治被迫害的人司法迫害的人嗎可不可以請你們說明一下到底當天這件事情是怎麼回事\n\n44\n00:16:36,148 --> 00:17:03,367\n這部分就是在4月21日的確有這樣的一個傳聞那這部分那個北檢已經發新聞稿就澄清就是這完全跟事實不符是那他後來就說你們用一個公文的部分用寄信的方法寄資料過去叫他們出來說明然後說你們作賊心虛有這樣嗎這個不是有台北地檢署在處理的好所以這個是由警方中正義分局處理的好沒關係所以到底有沒有作賊心虛\n\n45\n00:17:05,043 --> 00:17:12,809\n這是政治迫害嗎也不是嗎根本就沒有這個事情這個我們在新聞稿已經澄清這個完全以事實不符好完全以事實不符我們來看一下\n\n46\n00:17:14,571 --> 00:17:41,949\n我剛講了這麼多我要說國民黨立委先修法新增連署造假罰則他們覺得他們是站在正義的一方我就說今天所有的問題很多你沒有辦法回答我自己也沒有辦法回答國民黨的罷團就不敢用修正後的選罷法規定所以他們在新法生效以前先趕快送進去接下來繼續抄寫名冊涉嫌造假連署我剛也已經說了接下來地方政府的選委會在行政中立上抓出很多連署造假才把相關資料交給檢調去告發結果呢\n\n47\n00:17:45,152 --> 00:17:57,330\n被告發的次數太多那個數量太大可能超乎他們的想像他們就號召黨公子在北檢外面違法集會然後等到違法集會被警告之後呢要被\n\n48\n00:17:58,479 --> 00:18:27,900\n相關的事情剪掉處理之後他們就說民進黨執政黨政治追殺司法迫害我必須要說這一切的事情真的讓我們覺得非常非常難以想像但我非常謝謝部長跟中選會剛剛根據行政中立的部分或者是違法告發的部分你們都說出了非常明確的見解我也希望在後續不管是罷藍罷綠的委員或者是議員在所有的事件當中大家都要秉公處理依法處理依法行政中立\n\n49\n00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:42,986\n可以嗎這個我們一定是恪守行政中立是中選會因為接下來二級要送進來了是我們會一樣跟提議的時候一樣謹守行政中立好謝謝你們主席我可以再一分鐘嗎\n\n50\n00:18:44,771 --> 00:19:10,448\n謝謝主席來下一張超過8分鐘8分鐘好那沒關係最後一張來下一張我就直接問了來人民的恐懼來最後一張這一張好來警察清晨登門查問有沒有連署罷免那政論主持人就問啦怎麼會這樣辦案這邊我要跟部長您說甚至我的好朋友打電話給我說他的媽媽是忠貞的忠貞而且終身的國民黨黨員\n\n51\n00:19:11,869 --> 00:19:36,059\n他不知道他的名字被拿去抄結果他真的也被警察上門問了這個是我的好朋友已經私訊給我了我還打電話跟他解釋到底這整個流程是發生了什麼事情請問可以這樣辦案嗎這是正常的調查程序嗎如果他不正常請告訴我們什麼叫做正常調查程序並且請你公開呼籲所有各地的檢調單位他們針對這個造假罷免連署他們應該要如何處理謝謝\n\n52\n00:19:37,922 --> 00:19:58,874\n這個是檢察官是有揭發那個傳票是就傳票請那個司法警察就是有來做一個送達這個是合乎這次合乎那個刑事訴訟法第61條的規定送達文書號就是由那個司法警察跟郵輸機關來送達這個是屬於合法的一個行為那為什麼要這樣這樣的早上6點6點因為已經\n\n53\n00:20:00,475 --> 00:20:25,142\n早上六點你起床了嗎部長這個是看個人不過我們是考慮到基隆的特殊性因為基隆的民眾絕大部分就在外地的一個工作所以我們避免就是說那個被傳喚的對象那個時候還要再跑一趟所以我們就專人的送達他叫專人送達喔你看連主席都害逃了啦那個送達本來就是由\n\n54\n00:20:26,498 --> 00:20:27,619\n訴訟法第六十一司法警察機關\n\n55\n00:20:56,798 --> 00:21:17,950\n而且我們先不要講那個上門的人態度怎麼樣所以我現在拜託你公開的呼籲說清楚到底什麼叫做正常的調查程序這個是傳票的一個送達班這是六點半開始送達的那個早上六點半那已經都大家就準備要上班的時間了部長你真的確定喔\n\n56\n00:21:19,667 --> 00:21:37,807\n好沒關係我們會後再來討論但是我認為到底什麼叫正常調查程序真的還是要說清楚了而且拜託用我們一般鄉親公民聽得懂的語言什麼叫6點半是正常收拿程序但有沒有其他更好的處理方法在不擾民的情況下完成你們剛剛說的相關的檢調行為可以嗎\n\n57\n00:21:40,528 --> 00:21:47,930\n這部分我們當然可以再重範的話我們可以再更講究我們會後會再跟你們我們會後會再跟你們索取相關資料也會再跟你們開會討論我認為真的要說清楚好嗎謝謝謝謝陳委員部長這個說基隆人的生活習慣所以需要早上6點去送我覺得這句話滿不妥這是6點半以後\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6001\t25239\t好 謝謝主席 那有請法務部還有中選會麻煩部長 中選會委員早好 部長早 我們等一下中選會\n28430\t57435\t好那我們就開始喔那既然要來談關於今天的專題報告我認為我們應該回溯一下最近一次公職人員選舉罷免辦法的修法過程我們來看一下之前呢國民黨的委員曾經說這個相關的辦法修法沒有時間表大家可以好好的討論可是呢在上個會期卻在相關的委員會把所有的民進黨委員關在裡面只有少數的國民黨委員在裡面而且不到三分鐘就把這個修法的草案送出委員會\n58235\t82907\t那當然之後呢更是用粗暴的方法通過相關法案我們來看一下當時呢他們的修法提案是怎麼說的他們說公職人員選舉罷免法相關的事件屢屢出現相同筆記的連署還說有死亡者的提議的連署會讓有心人士藉由這個連署的動作呢收集到大量個資然後假冒提議連署\n84308\t101293\t所以呢他們認為缺乏代表性而且徐玉珍委員提案委員他還說違反個人資料保護所以他們就提出了這個修法這個是發生在立法院的事情好對比於現在我們來看到相關的數字我認為真的是不勝唏噓來下一張\n103274\t124159\t除了相關數字之外呢國民黨號稱法學專家的翁小玲委員她自己在當時三讀通過的時候這是她的上台發言她說我在這裡要警告那些打算大抄特抄連署造假的罷免團體不要以為說未造連署會沒有事然後她就巴拉巴拉又講了很多\n124619\t141759\t他提醒大家他身為法學專家他想要提醒大家他說未來只要有連署假冒的相關人士要處五年以下的有期徒刑拘役還有病科一百萬元以下罰金同時還提醒大家可能違反各自法相關規定\n142800\t168331\t再次提醒他還說法律追溯其實20年請大家不要以身試法挑戰法律的界限我想要問一下這是翁小玲委員當時說而且他認為他提醒大家他說全台灣人民都要來支持像這樣子的良善制度這是國民黨的不分區翁小玲委員揭示這一次的修法核心意旨他認為這些事情非常非常的重要\n168971\t187179\t昨天的新聞我們看到中選會你們表態說在新法生效以前所有發起的罷免案都還是適用舊法的規定但我認為不論是新法還是舊法所有的罷免連署我們要避免就是造假\n187839\t217154\t死亡還有重複提議我認為這件事情不論新法舊法所有維護台灣法治維護台灣民主的人都會認為是重要的事情對嗎 部長您覺得這個死亡連署或者是違照那個未經同意違照他的簽章來做一個連署或提議的話那這個的確是反派罷免或選舉的一個行為那這個是嚴重腐蝕民主政治的一個機制我想這個立法這個是我們是贊同的好\n217774\t233559\t在立法的角度你是贊同的所以他們的國民黨通過這個版本那我們來看一下之後呢在國民黨的羅志強委員他的二階連署被通過之後他在新聞媒體上公開的呼籲我們現在相關的報導用的是聯合報的報導聯合報裡面說羅志強委員提醒大家說今日用力操明月吐塵看守所等你\n242401\t269507\t他還提醒大家今日為了迎頭小利出賣靈魂明日就要為了今日所做的行為付出代價呼應部長您剛說的這確實是違法的樣態大家都要很小心很注意我也認為這個不論是任何政治形態支持者或者是所有霸團之間大家都有這個共識也就是有做了違法的事情我們就是要調查就是要處理 對嗎好 我們來看一下\n270387\t272708\t根據這個中選會的資料我們來看到國民黨的黨團我認為他們為了剝奪人民罷免的權利他們在這一次的修法當中加嚴罷免的連署書門檻可是我認為可笑的是所有要罷綠委的提議\n289372\t313056\t都敢在新法生效前趕快送出第一階段連署我認為國民黨人自己也不敢面對新法剛剛您說的加重刑罰那個部分我認為他們自己也不敢面對所以我想問一下中選會截至目前為止有任何的罷免連署案是適用於修法後嗎還是目前所有的罷免連署提議案都是適用舊法\n313632\t329358\t包括委員都是適用舊法全部嘛對不對好那現在我們看到民間還有消息在說罷免陳玉珍委員第一階段沒有成功可是有人開始發送意願調查表可能也會發動後續連署所以後續送進來是不是就適用新法\n329898\t354385\t報告是好 適用心法所以講得很清楚所以國立黨黨團自己當時的修法規定連署要附身分證我認為搞不好真的附身分證他們今天就不會有這麼多死亡連署因為死人拿不出身分證我們來看一下下面這張表格是我們辦公室自己整理的加上中選會現在公佈的資料罷率我們看到最可笑的部分罷藍委的最低合格率\n355245\t372592\t都還高過罷律委的最高合格率這代表什麼意思你們再看這個表格你們研究一下這個表格我們要看到荒謬的是合格率死亡連署的問題如果是這一次我們看到所有罷免名冊最大大家認為最有法律爭議的問題我想要先問中選會\n374893\t404105\t新聞報導說中選會目前已經告發41件涉嫌死亡連署偽造連署的罷免案但是這41件數字目前是正確的嗎是好那這41件裡面是不是有罷藍委罷綠委包含罷綠預言都有告發有都有告發對不對所以不分藍綠都辦我認為這是一種行政中立就你們角度是嗎報告是是好再來目前告發的41件是不是都是屬於一階的連署\n405511\t416942\t目前都是屬於提議階段的提議階段好那補件的部分是不是也會也是包含在這裡頭補件的部分也包括在這裡面好所以這41件聽起來就是有罷綠委有罷藍委還有罷綠的議員然後包含一階連署還有包含補件的部分都是這樣那我接下來幫大家請問全台灣人民現在最關心的\n428672\t453476\t接下來二階就馬上要送進來的不管是四月底或是五月初是不是我們後續也會依照這個行政中立的部分針對我們認為有偽造連署、死亡連署、造假連署的部分依法告發報告委員因為在連署的部分一樣有偽造的部分的一個審查所以如果這一部分也有死亡連署的部分的話我們還是會依法告發\n453916\t481992\t好 謝謝中選會行政中立依法告發不管是罷免是哪一個黨派的委員或者是議員接下來我請問法務部當中選會依法告發之後你們是不是都要調查處理我們檢察機關接到中選會的高案件都會立案來偵辦那這部分就是有問必查有據必辦覺得秉持檢察罪有犯罪嫌疑就要啟動調查這個沒有任何的立場\n482492\t498005\t好一樣謝謝你的回覆不要有任何的立場該辦就辦我認為這才是維護台灣民主自由最重要的基礎我想要講一個一般人可能比較聽得懂的例子如果在全台灣一萬個人當中有一個人身上他有一到兩張的尾鈔我們可能會覺得那個是意外或是他在買賣買賣東西付現金的過程當中拿到這個尾鈔一萬個人當中有一個人他身上一到兩張\n511135\t526015\t可是如果我們在某一群一兩百個人當中一萬個人當中有一兩百個人他們身上同時都有好幾張的偽鈔那我們就要懷疑他有沒有可能是組織犯罪我自己認為現在所有的\n526536\t551725\t不當的這些連署 也就是我說的罷律委的這些不當的數字裡面他們的合格率這麼低然後他們的造假率這麼高我認為就是我剛剛說的身上持有偽鈔疑似有可能是組織犯罪所以我非常謝謝部長您剛剛的回答就是依法調查在中選會依法告發之後我覺得這件事情非常重要來 下一張我剛剛講的是第一階段提議的時候送件\n552925\t580630\t補件的部分我們來看以蘇喬惠委員被罷免的例子提案的罷免例子來說不合格率高達45%提議前死亡31重複提議244未簽名或蓋章131居住期間太短197我覺得最可笑最荒謬的是連補件都補不好給你補考都補不好照抄都抄不好超過10%這個狀況我想問一下法務部跟中學會你們怎麼看補件還出現像這樣的狀況\n587301\t595043\t好 你們行政中立我就不讓你們回答但是我要提醒你們來往下看現在有人自己公開說對我就是超明策\n596395\t621233\t這個是罷免許志傑的領銜人朱磊電視螢幕大家都看見了他說黨安排黨員抄黨員名冊有錯嗎一個黨如果不容許黨員抄名單那還叫黨嗎他說黨員不是普通民眾他在黨的利益面前是沒有個資可言的我剛剛為什麼要回溯修法的過程個資法這件事情國民黨視之為無物啊下一張\n623667\t651188\t國民黨的大佬趙少康 董事長 前中廣董事長他說有沒有抄名單 人家問他他說我認為會有啦 因為有很多是國民黨員他說還有死亡名單 他自己都說囉他還說 可是應該沒有嚴重到要把人關起來吧所以為什麼我剛剛要請教中選會到底是適用舊法還是新法因為目前我認為有非常多國民黨的支持者他們在擔心會不會他們的名單被拿去抄\n652009\t666574\t然後他們就變成那個犯罪嫌疑人我覺得這件事情是非常非常可怕的也就是說不管是朱磊或是趙少康他們都不是所謂的綠營側翼而他們都在螢幕受訪的時候公開間接證實有超明側下一張\n671926\t692858\t大家就很好奇啦 這個造假或是死亡提議到底是誰糾舉出來的可能很多人搞不清楚相關程序喔感謝台北市選委會主委李泰鑫他說死亡連署是戶政事務所用電腦核對出來的甚至還有查出連簽名的時候名字都簽錯\n694079\t720593\t也就是如果陳培宇今天要去簽一張罷免聯署書但是我可能最後簽名的時候簽的是別人的名字為什麼會發生這個狀況李泰鑫說選委會台北市選委會如果一旦收到中選會所交付第一階段也就是提議階段的聯署書名冊會交給戶政事務所去查對是不是有死亡有沒有在籍而這一次死亡聯署就是台北市戶政事務所查出來的這個他們的說法請問中選會是正確的嗎\n726172\t740884\t台北市選委會說是你們把資料交給台北市選委會去核對資料而台北市選委會把資料交給戶政事務所去查核這個人有沒有死亡這個人有沒有在籍他說法是對的嗎程序上是這個程序上是對的好來下一張\n742441\t767578\t我們看到在國民黨送交的不實聯署文件當中甚至昨天新聞媒體還說有聯署人的名字跟他們的黨員名冊是一樣的可是住址不對仔細一看呢 把黨員名冊拿過來對照發現資料那個地址剛好抄錯也就是第一行跟第二行 馬上壞掉了 抄不對連抄都抄不好 把解答拿給他寫 都寫不好這是現在我們看到的狀況所以我想要接著請問總選會\n770720\t779604\t一階段罷免的查核確認你剛剛說了是由地方縣市政府的選委會負責處理而不是中選會對不對那如果是按照你所說的這樣目前在罷綠委罷藍委的部分他不管縣市政府的執政縣市首長是藍營還是綠營我認為他們應該都會保持行政中立去做確實的查核對嗎這個部分中選會對於地方的選委會有沒有這樣的信心\n797911\t822944\t報告有 因為我們都是依法辦理選務而且希望說在辦理的過程當中我們能夠維持選務中立這樣子的一個形象好 謝謝你的呼籲我也呼籲各地方的選委會要在中選會的呼籲下保持行政中立他們不是只有做這個事情國民黨人呢接下來做妨礙司法公正的事情我們來看一下真的是讓我不知道怎麼教小孩過去做親子教育做了20年\n824105\t836034\t我來問一下法務部這些人國民黨朱立倫 蔣萬安楊志宇 謝龍介等一干立法委員在禁制區集會有沒有違法\n837213\t852452\t法務部在集會遊行第六條集會遊行部的在各級法院周邊來做一個舉行好所以是有違法的嗎這個違法這部分那個中正議會已經報北京人指揮了好中正議分局會報備已經報台北京人指揮偵辦已經北京人分他案來\n856437\t873483\t分他案處理了而且當天我看不懂的是警察聚巧性的舉牌這個我就不說了但是我真的看不懂的是台北市長蔣萬安他仍在現場他講了一句話我讀了一個禮拜我還是讀不懂他說今晚我個人的行為所有的責任我個人自己承擔\n875665\t876726\t這部分我想那個\n895136\t908363\t我認為好你答不出來我幫你答啦我認為今天如果一個公務員可以說他個人的行為個人承擔那他就開始從事違法行為可以這樣嗎我身為一個立法委員我在立法院的問政過程當中我有言論免責權\n909924\t932932\t但是我不可以站到街口隨便一個地方然後說我陳培宇不代表立法委員我代表我個人我可以隨便的毀謗 侮辱任何人嗎不行嘛所以什麼叫做個人違法行為他自己承擔我看不懂 結果你也看不懂謝謝你剛剛神秘的微笑我認為在這一場違法集會當中更荒謬的是有一些立法者\n933852\t941147\t立法委員帶頭違法集會到底我們這個國家的法治要怎麼執行下去部長很難對不對\n944619\t971577\t好 沒關係你答不出來我也答不出來齁我真的很想知道為什麼接下來更可笑的事情出現了齁國民黨的智庫副執行長朱立倫的子弟兵林濤在他的臉書上面說檢警要在禮拜一的下午就是4月21號那一天他先發了一個文然後瘋傳沒辦法轉這個文說禮拜一下午3點檢警要衝進國民黨中央黨部搜索這個新聞第一時間是這樣後來呢\n974139\t995368\t你們發了一個新聞稿說沒有這件事情到了下午四點林濤就說啊他們改成送這個公文所以是作賊心虛說你們作賊心虛你可不可以說一下難道違法都不可以跳牆嗎難道違法帶頭作亂的人都只能裝成自己是政治被迫害的人司法迫害的人嗎可不可以請你們說明一下到底當天這件事情是怎麼回事\n996148\t1023367\t這部分就是在4月21日的確有這樣的一個傳聞那這部分那個北檢已經發新聞稿就澄清就是這完全跟事實不符是 那他後來就說你們用一個公文的部分用寄信的方法寄資料過去叫他們出來說明然後說你們作賊心虛有這樣嗎這個不是有台北地檢署在處理的好 所以這個是由警方中正義分局處理的好 沒關係所以到底有沒有作賊心虛\n1025043\t1032809\t這是政治迫害嗎 也不是嗎 根本就沒有這個事情這個我們在新聞稿已經澄清 這個完全以事實不符好 完全以事實不符 我們來看一下\n1034571\t1061949\t我剛講了這麼多我要說國民黨立委先修法新增連署造假罰則他們覺得他們是站在正義的一方我就說今天所有的問題很多你沒有辦法回答我自己也沒有辦法回答國民黨的罷團就不敢用修正後的選罷法規定所以他們在新法生效以前先趕快送進去接下來繼續抄寫名冊涉嫌造假連署我剛也已經說了接下來地方政府的選委會在行政中立上抓出很多連署造假才把相關資料交給檢調去告發結果呢\n1065152\t1077330\t被告發的次數太多那個數量太大可能超乎他們的想像他們就號召黨公子在北檢外面違法集會然後等到違法集會被警告之後呢要被\n1078479\t1107900\t相關的事情剪掉處理之後他們就說民進黨執政黨政治追殺司法迫害我必須要說這一切的事情真的讓我們覺得非常非常難以想像但我非常謝謝部長跟中選會剛剛根據行政中立的部分或者是違法告發的部分你們都說出了非常明確的見解我也希望在後續不管是罷藍罷綠的委員或者是議員在所有的事件當中大家都要秉公處理依法處理依法行政中立\n1108340\t1122986\t可以嗎這個我們一定是恪守行政中立是 中選會因為接下來二級要送進來了是 我們會一樣跟提議的時候一樣謹守行政中立好 謝謝你們主席我可以再一分鐘嗎\n1124771\t1150448\t謝謝主席來 下一張超過8分鐘8分鐘 好那沒關係 最後一張來 下一張我就直接問了來 人民的恐懼來 最後一張這一張好 來警察清晨登門查問有沒有連署罷免那政論主持人就問啦怎麼會這樣辦案這邊我要跟部長您說甚至我的好朋友打電話給我說他的媽媽是忠貞的忠貞而且終身的國民黨黨員\n1151869\t1176059\t他不知道他的名字被拿去抄結果他真的也被警察上門問了這個是我的好朋友已經私訊給我了我還打電話跟他解釋到底這整個流程是發生了什麼事情請問可以這樣辦案嗎這是正常的調查程序嗎如果他不正常請告訴我們什麼叫做正常調查程序並且請你公開呼籲所有各地的檢調單位他們針對這個造假罷免連署他們應該要如何處理 謝謝\n1177922\t1198874\t這個是檢察官是有揭發那個傳票是就傳票請那個司法警察就是有來做一個送達這個是合乎這次合乎那個刑事訴訟法第61條的規定送達文書號就是由那個司法警察跟郵輸機關來送達這個是屬於合法的一個行為那為什麼要這樣這樣的早上6點6點因為已經\n1200475\t1225142\t早上六點你起床了嗎部長這個是看個人不過我們是考慮到基隆的特殊性因為基隆的民眾絕大部分就在外地的一個工作所以我們避免就是說那個被傳喚的對象那個時候還要再跑一趟所以我們就專人的送達他叫專人送達喔你看連主席都害逃了啦那個送達本來就是由\n1226498\t1227619\t訴訟法第六十一 司法警察機關\n1256798\t1277950\t而且我們先不要講那個上門的人態度怎麼樣所以我現在拜託你公開的呼籲說清楚到底什麼叫做正常的調查程序這個是傳票的一個送達班這是六點半開始送達的那個早上六點半那已經都大家就準備要上班的時間了部長你真的確定喔\n1279667\t1297807\t好沒關係我們會後再來討論但是我認為到底什麼叫正常調查程序真的還是要說清楚了而且拜託用我們一般鄉親公民聽得懂的語言什麼叫6點半是正常收拿程序但有沒有其他更好的處理方法在不擾民的情況下完成你們剛剛說的相關的檢調行為可以嗎\n1300528\t1307930\t這部分我們當然可以再重範的話我們可以再更講究我們會後會再跟你們我們會後會再跟你們索取相關資料也會再跟你們開會討論我認為真的要說清楚好嗎謝謝謝謝陳委員部長這個說基隆人的生活習慣所以需要早上6點去送我覺得這句話滿不妥這是6點半以後\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請法務部還有中選會麻煩部長 中選會委員早好 部長早 我們等一下中選會\n好那我們就開始喔那既然要來談關於今天的專題報告我認為我們應該回溯一下最近一次公職人員選舉罷免辦法的修法過程我們來看一下之前呢國民黨的委員曾經說這個相關的辦法修法沒有時間表大家可以好好的討論可是呢在上個會期卻在相關的委員會把所有的民進黨委員關在裡面只有少數的國民黨委員在裡面而且不到三分鐘就把這個修法的草案送出委員會\n那當然之後呢更是用粗暴的方法通過相關法案我們來看一下當時呢他們的修法提案是怎麼說的他們說公職人員選舉罷免法相關的事件屢屢出現相同筆記的連署還說有死亡者的提議的連署會讓有心人士藉由這個連署的動作呢收集到大量個資然後假冒提議連署\n所以呢他們認為缺乏代表性而且徐玉珍委員提案委員他還說違反個人資料保護所以他們就提出了這個修法這個是發生在立法院的事情好對比於現在我們來看到相關的數字我認為真的是不勝唏噓來下一張\n除了相關數字之外呢國民黨號稱法學專家的翁小玲委員她自己在當時三讀通過的時候這是她的上台發言她說我在這裡要警告那些打算大抄特抄連署造假的罷免團體不要以為說未造連署會沒有事然後她就巴拉巴拉又講了很多\n他提醒大家他身為法學專家他想要提醒大家他說未來只要有連署假冒的相關人士要處五年以下的有期徒刑拘役還有病科一百萬元以下罰金同時還提醒大家可能違反各自法相關規定\n再次提醒他還說法律追溯其實20年請大家不要以身試法挑戰法律的界限我想要問一下這是翁小玲委員當時說而且他認為他提醒大家他說全台灣人民都要來支持像這樣子的良善制度這是國民黨的不分區翁小玲委員揭示這一次的修法核心意旨他認為這些事情非常非常的重要\n昨天的新聞我們看到中選會你們表態說在新法生效以前所有發起的罷免案都還是適用舊法的規定但我認為不論是新法還是舊法所有的罷免連署我們要避免就是造假\n死亡還有重複提議我認為這件事情不論新法舊法所有維護台灣法治維護台灣民主的人都會認為是重要的事情對嗎 部長您覺得這個死亡連署或者是違照那個未經同意違照他的簽章來做一個連署或提議的話那這個的確是反派罷免或選舉的一個行為那這個是嚴重腐蝕民主政治的一個機制我想這個立法這個是我們是贊同的好\n在立法的角度你是贊同的所以他們的國民黨通過這個版本那我們來看一下之後呢在國民黨的羅志強委員他的二階連署被通過之後他在新聞媒體上公開的呼籲我們現在相關的報導用的是聯合報的報導聯合報裡面說羅志強委員提醒大家說今日用力操明月吐塵看守所等你\n他還提醒大家今日為了迎頭小利出賣靈魂明日就要為了今日所做的行為付出代價呼應部長您剛說的這確實是違法的樣態大家都要很小心很注意我也認為這個不論是任何政治形態支持者或者是所有霸團之間大家都有這個共識也就是有做了違法的事情我們就是要調查就是要處理 對嗎好 我們來看一下\n根據這個中選會的資料我們來看到國民黨的黨團我認為他們為了剝奪人民罷免的權利他們在這一次的修法當中加嚴罷免的連署書門檻可是我認為可笑的是所有要罷綠委的提議\n都敢在新法生效前趕快送出第一階段連署我認為國民黨人自己也不敢面對新法剛剛您說的加重刑罰那個部分我認為他們自己也不敢面對所以我想問一下中選會截至目前為止有任何的罷免連署案是適用於修法後嗎還是目前所有的罷免連署提議案都是適用舊法\n包括委員都是適用舊法全部嘛對不對好那現在我們看到民間還有消息在說罷免陳玉珍委員第一階段沒有成功可是有人開始發送意願調查表可能也會發動後續連署所以後續送進來是不是就適用新法\n報告是好 適用心法所以講得很清楚所以國立黨黨團自己當時的修法規定連署要附身分證我認為搞不好真的附身分證他們今天就不會有這麼多死亡連署因為死人拿不出身分證我們來看一下下面這張表格是我們辦公室自己整理的加上中選會現在公佈的資料罷率我們看到最可笑的部分罷藍委的最低合格率\n都還高過罷律委的最高合格率這代表什麼意思你們再看這個表格你們研究一下這個表格我們要看到荒謬的是合格率死亡連署的問題如果是這一次我們看到所有罷免名冊最大大家認為最有法律爭議的問題我想要先問中選會\n新聞報導說中選會目前已經告發41件涉嫌死亡連署偽造連署的罷免案但是這41件數字目前是正確的嗎是好那這41件裡面是不是有罷藍委罷綠委包含罷綠預言都有告發有都有告發對不對所以不分藍綠都辦我認為這是一種行政中立就你們角度是嗎報告是是好再來目前告發的41件是不是都是屬於一階的連署\n目前都是屬於提議階段的提議階段好那補件的部分是不是也會也是包含在這裡頭補件的部分也包括在這裡面好所以這41件聽起來就是有罷綠委有罷藍委還有罷綠的議員然後包含一階連署還有包含補件的部分都是這樣那我接下來幫大家請問全台灣人民現在最關心的\n接下來二階就馬上要送進來的不管是四月底或是五月初是不是我們後續也會依照這個行政中立的部分針對我們認為有偽造連署、死亡連署、造假連署的部分依法告發報告委員因為在連署的部分一樣有偽造的部分的一個審查所以如果這一部分也有死亡連署的部分的話我們還是會依法告發\n好 謝謝中選會行政中立依法告發不管是罷免是哪一個黨派的委員或者是議員接下來我請問法務部當中選會依法告發之後你們是不是都要調查處理我們檢察機關接到中選會的高案件都會立案來偵辦那這部分就是有問必查有據必辦覺得秉持檢察罪有犯罪嫌疑就要啟動調查這個沒有任何的立場\n好一樣謝謝你的回覆不要有任何的立場該辦就辦我認為這才是維護台灣民主自由最重要的基礎我想要講一個一般人可能比較聽得懂的例子如果在全台灣一萬個人當中有一個人身上他有一到兩張的尾鈔我們可能會覺得那個是意外或是他在買賣買賣東西付現金的過程當中拿到這個尾鈔一萬個人當中有一個人他身上一到兩張\n可是如果我們在某一群一兩百個人當中一萬個人當中有一兩百個人他們身上同時都有好幾張的偽鈔那我們就要懷疑他有沒有可能是組織犯罪我自己認為現在所有的\n不當的這些連署 也就是我說的罷律委的這些不當的數字裡面他們的合格率這麼低然後他們的造假率這麼高我認為就是我剛剛說的身上持有偽鈔疑似有可能是組織犯罪所以我非常謝謝部長您剛剛的回答就是依法調查在中選會依法告發之後我覺得這件事情非常重要來 下一張我剛剛講的是第一階段提議的時候送件\n補件的部分我們來看以蘇喬惠委員被罷免的例子提案的罷免例子來說不合格率高達45%提議前死亡31重複提議244未簽名或蓋章131居住期間太短197我覺得最可笑最荒謬的是連補件都補不好給你補考都補不好照抄都抄不好超過10%這個狀況我想問一下法務部跟中學會你們怎麼看補件還出現像這樣的狀況\n好 你們行政中立我就不讓你們回答但是我要提醒你們來往下看現在有人自己公開說對我就是超明策\n這個是罷免許志傑的領銜人朱磊電視螢幕大家都看見了他說黨安排黨員抄黨員名冊有錯嗎一個黨如果不容許黨員抄名單那還叫黨嗎他說黨員不是普通民眾他在黨的利益面前是沒有個資可言的我剛剛為什麼要回溯修法的過程個資法這件事情國民黨視之為無物啊下一張\n國民黨的大佬趙少康 董事長 前中廣董事長他說有沒有抄名單 人家問他他說我認為會有啦 因為有很多是國民黨員他說還有死亡名單 他自己都說囉他還說 可是應該沒有嚴重到要把人關起來吧所以為什麼我剛剛要請教中選會到底是適用舊法還是新法因為目前我認為有非常多國民黨的支持者他們在擔心會不會他們的名單被拿去抄\n然後他們就變成那個犯罪嫌疑人我覺得這件事情是非常非常可怕的也就是說不管是朱磊或是趙少康他們都不是所謂的綠營側翼而他們都在螢幕受訪的時候公開間接證實有超明側下一張\n大家就很好奇啦 這個造假或是死亡提議到底是誰糾舉出來的可能很多人搞不清楚相關程序喔感謝台北市選委會主委李泰鑫他說死亡連署是戶政事務所用電腦核對出來的甚至還有查出連簽名的時候名字都簽錯\n也就是如果陳培宇今天要去簽一張罷免聯署書但是我可能最後簽名的時候簽的是別人的名字為什麼會發生這個狀況李泰鑫說選委會台北市選委會如果一旦收到中選會所交付第一階段也就是提議階段的聯署書名冊會交給戶政事務所去查對是不是有死亡有沒有在籍而這一次死亡聯署就是台北市戶政事務所查出來的這個他們的說法請問中選會是正確的嗎\n台北市選委會說是你們把資料交給台北市選委會去核對資料而台北市選委會把資料交給戶政事務所去查核這個人有沒有死亡這個人有沒有在籍他說法是對的嗎程序上是這個程序上是對的好來下一張\n我們看到在國民黨送交的不實聯署文件當中甚至昨天新聞媒體還說有聯署人的名字跟他們的黨員名冊是一樣的可是住址不對仔細一看呢 把黨員名冊拿過來對照發現資料那個地址剛好抄錯也就是第一行跟第二行 馬上壞掉了 抄不對連抄都抄不好 把解答拿給他寫 都寫不好這是現在我們看到的狀況所以我想要接著請問總選會\n一階段罷免的查核確認你剛剛說了是由地方縣市政府的選委會負責處理而不是中選會對不對那如果是按照你所說的這樣目前在罷綠委罷藍委的部分他不管縣市政府的執政縣市首長是藍營還是綠營我認為他們應該都會保持行政中立去做確實的查核對嗎這個部分中選會對於地方的選委會有沒有這樣的信心\n報告有 因為我們都是依法辦理選務而且希望說在辦理的過程當中我們能夠維持選務中立這樣子的一個形象好 謝謝你的呼籲我也呼籲各地方的選委會要在中選會的呼籲下保持行政中立他們不是只有做這個事情國民黨人呢接下來做妨礙司法公正的事情我們來看一下真的是讓我不知道怎麼教小孩過去做親子教育做了20年\n我來問一下法務部這些人國民黨朱立倫 蔣萬安楊志宇 謝龍介等一干立法委員在禁制區集會有沒有違法\n法務部在集會遊行第六條集會遊行部的在各級法院周邊來做一個舉行好所以是有違法的嗎這個違法這部分那個中正議會已經報北京人指揮了好中正議分局會報備已經報台北京人指揮偵辦已經北京人分他案來\n分他案處理了而且當天我看不懂的是警察聚巧性的舉牌這個我就不說了但是我真的看不懂的是台北市長蔣萬安他仍在現場他講了一句話我讀了一個禮拜我還是讀不懂他說今晚我個人的行為所有的責任我個人自己承擔\n這部分我想那個\n我認為好你答不出來我幫你答啦我認為今天如果一個公務員可以說他個人的行為個人承擔那他就開始從事違法行為可以這樣嗎我身為一個立法委員我在立法院的問政過程當中我有言論免責權\n但是我不可以站到街口隨便一個地方然後說我陳培宇不代表立法委員我代表我個人我可以隨便的毀謗 侮辱任何人嗎不行嘛所以什麼叫做個人違法行為他自己承擔我看不懂 結果你也看不懂謝謝你剛剛神秘的微笑我認為在這一場違法集會當中更荒謬的是有一些立法者\n立法委員帶頭違法集會到底我們這個國家的法治要怎麼執行下去部長很難對不對\n好 沒關係你答不出來我也答不出來齁我真的很想知道為什麼接下來更可笑的事情出現了齁國民黨的智庫副執行長朱立倫的子弟兵林濤在他的臉書上面說檢警要在禮拜一的下午就是4月21號那一天他先發了一個文然後瘋傳沒辦法轉這個文說禮拜一下午3點檢警要衝進國民黨中央黨部搜索這個新聞第一時間是這樣後來呢\n你們發了一個新聞稿說沒有這件事情到了下午四點林濤就說啊他們改成送這個公文所以是作賊心虛說你們作賊心虛你可不可以說一下難道違法都不可以跳牆嗎難道違法帶頭作亂的人都只能裝成自己是政治被迫害的人司法迫害的人嗎可不可以請你們說明一下到底當天這件事情是怎麼回事\n這部分就是在4月21日的確有這樣的一個傳聞那這部分那個北檢已經發新聞稿就澄清就是這完全跟事實不符是 那他後來就說你們用一個公文的部分用寄信的方法寄資料過去叫他們出來說明然後說你們作賊心虛有這樣嗎這個不是有台北地檢署在處理的好 所以這個是由警方中正義分局處理的好 沒關係所以到底有沒有作賊心虛\n這是政治迫害嗎 也不是嗎 根本就沒有這個事情這個我們在新聞稿已經澄清 這個完全以事實不符好 完全以事實不符 我們來看一下\n我剛講了這麼多我要說國民黨立委先修法新增連署造假罰則他們覺得他們是站在正義的一方我就說今天所有的問題很多你沒有辦法回答我自己也沒有辦法回答國民黨的罷團就不敢用修正後的選罷法規定所以他們在新法生效以前先趕快送進去接下來繼續抄寫名冊涉嫌造假連署我剛也已經說了接下來地方政府的選委會在行政中立上抓出很多連署造假才把相關資料交給檢調去告發結果呢\n被告發的次數太多那個數量太大可能超乎他們的想像他們就號召黨公子在北檢外面違法集會然後等到違法集會被警告之後呢要被\n相關的事情剪掉處理之後他們就說民進黨執政黨政治追殺司法迫害我必須要說這一切的事情真的讓我們覺得非常非常難以想像但我非常謝謝部長跟中選會剛剛根據行政中立的部分或者是違法告發的部分你們都說出了非常明確的見解我也希望在後續不管是罷藍罷綠的委員或者是議員在所有的事件當中大家都要秉公處理依法處理依法行政中立\n可以嗎這個我們一定是恪守行政中立是 中選會因為接下來二級要送進來了是 我們會一樣跟提議的時候一樣謹守行政中立好 謝謝你們主席我可以再一分鐘嗎\n謝謝主席來 下一張超過8分鐘8分鐘 好那沒關係 最後一張來 下一張我就直接問了來 人民的恐懼來 最後一張這一張好 來警察清晨登門查問有沒有連署罷免那政論主持人就問啦怎麼會這樣辦案這邊我要跟部長您說甚至我的好朋友打電話給我說他的媽媽是忠貞的忠貞而且終身的國民黨黨員\n他不知道他的名字被拿去抄結果他真的也被警察上門問了這個是我的好朋友已經私訊給我了我還打電話跟他解釋到底這整個流程是發生了什麼事情請問可以這樣辦案嗎這是正常的調查程序嗎如果他不正常請告訴我們什麼叫做正常調查程序並且請你公開呼籲所有各地的檢調單位他們針對這個造假罷免連署他們應該要如何處理 謝謝\n這個是檢察官是有揭發那個傳票是就傳票請那個司法警察就是有來做一個送達這個是合乎這次合乎那個刑事訴訟法第61條的規定送達文書號就是由那個司法警察跟郵輸機關來送達這個是屬於合法的一個行為那為什麼要這樣這樣的早上6點6點因為已經\n早上六點你起床了嗎部長這個是看個人不過我們是考慮到基隆的特殊性因為基隆的民眾絕大部分就在外地的一個工作所以我們避免就是說那個被傳喚的對象那個時候還要再跑一趟所以我們就專人的送達他叫專人送達喔你看連主席都害逃了啦那個送達本來就是由\n訴訟法第六十一 司法警察機關\n而且我們先不要講那個上門的人態度怎麼樣所以我現在拜託你公開的呼籲說清楚到底什麼叫做正常的調查程序這個是傳票的一個送達班這是六點半開始送達的那個早上六點半那已經都大家就準備要上班的時間了部長你真的確定喔\n好沒關係我們會後再來討論但是我認為到底什麼叫正常調查程序真的還是要說清楚了而且拜託用我們一般鄉親公民聽得懂的語言什麼叫6點半是正常收拿程序但有沒有其他更好的處理方法在不擾民的情況下完成你們剛剛說的相關的檢調行為可以嗎\n這部分我們當然可以再重範的話我們可以再更講究我們會後會再跟你們我們會後會再跟你們索取相關資料也會再跟你們開會討論我認為真的要說清楚好嗎謝謝謝謝陳委員部長這個說基隆人的生活習慣所以需要早上6點去送我覺得這句話滿不妥這是6點半以後\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.001 --> 00:25.239\n好謝謝主席那有請法務部還有中選會麻煩部長中選會委員早好部長早我們等一下中選會\n\n00:28.430 --> 00:57.435\n好那我們就開始喔那既然要來談關於今天的專題報告我認為我們應該回溯一下最近一次公職人員選舉罷免辦法的修法過程我們來看一下之前呢國民黨的委員曾經說這個相關的辦法修法沒有時間表大家可以好好的討論可是呢在上個會期卻在相關的委員會把所有的民進黨委員關在裡面只有少數的國民黨委員在裡面而且不到三分鐘就把這個修法的草案送出委員會\n\n00:58.235 --> 01:22.907\n那當然之後呢更是用粗暴的方法通過相關法案我們來看一下當時呢他們的修法提案是怎麼說的他們說公職人員選舉罷免法相關的事件屢屢出現相同筆記的連署還說有死亡者的提議的連署會讓有心人士藉由這個連署的動作呢收集到大量個資然後假冒提議連署\n\n01:24.308 --> 01:41.293\n所以呢他們認為缺乏代表性而且徐玉珍委員提案委員他還說違反個人資料保護所以他們就提出了這個修法這個是發生在立法院的事情好對比於現在我們來看到相關的數字我認為真的是不勝唏噓來下一張\n\n01:43.274 --> 02:04.159\n除了相關數字之外呢國民黨號稱法學專家的翁小玲委員她自己在當時三讀通過的時候這是她的上台發言她說我在這裡要警告那些打算大抄特抄連署造假的罷免團體不要以為說未造連署會沒有事然後她就巴拉巴拉又講了很多\n\n02:04.619 --> 02:21.759\n他提醒大家他身為法學專家他想要提醒大家他說未來只要有連署假冒的相關人士要處五年以下的有期徒刑拘役還有病科一百萬元以下罰金同時還提醒大家可能違反各自法相關規定\n\n02:22.800 --> 02:48.331\n再次提醒他還說法律追溯其實20年請大家不要以身試法挑戰法律的界限我想要問一下這是翁小玲委員當時說而且他認為他提醒大家他說全台灣人民都要來支持像這樣子的良善制度這是國民黨的不分區翁小玲委員揭示這一次的修法核心意旨他認為這些事情非常非常的重要\n\n02:48.971 --> 03:07.179\n昨天的新聞我們看到中選會你們表態說在新法生效以前所有發起的罷免案都還是適用舊法的規定但我認為不論是新法還是舊法所有的罷免連署我們要避免就是造假\n\n03:07.839 --> 03:37.154\n死亡還有重複提議我認為這件事情不論新法舊法所有維護台灣法治維護台灣民主的人都會認為是重要的事情對嗎部長您覺得這個死亡連署或者是違照那個未經同意違照他的簽章來做一個連署或提議的話那這個的確是反派罷免或選舉的一個行為那這個是嚴重腐蝕民主政治的一個機制我想這個立法這個是我們是贊同的好\n\n03:37.774 --> 03:53.559\n在立法的角度你是贊同的所以他們的國民黨通過這個版本那我們來看一下之後呢在國民黨的羅志強委員他的二階連署被通過之後他在新聞媒體上公開的呼籲我們現在相關的報導用的是聯合報的報導聯合報裡面說羅志強委員提醒大家說今日用力操明月吐塵看守所等你\n\n04:02.401 --> 04:29.507\n他還提醒大家今日為了迎頭小利出賣靈魂明日就要為了今日所做的行為付出代價呼應部長您剛說的這確實是違法的樣態大家都要很小心很注意我也認為這個不論是任何政治形態支持者或者是所有霸團之間大家都有這個共識也就是有做了違法的事情我們就是要調查就是要處理對嗎好我們來看一下\n\n04:30.387 --> 04:32.708\n根據這個中選會的資料我們來看到國民黨的黨團我認為他們為了剝奪人民罷免的權利他們在這一次的修法當中加嚴罷免的連署書門檻可是我認為可笑的是所有要罷綠委的提議\n\n04:49.372 --> 05:13.056\n都敢在新法生效前趕快送出第一階段連署我認為國民黨人自己也不敢面對新法剛剛您說的加重刑罰那個部分我認為他們自己也不敢面對所以我想問一下中選會截至目前為止有任何的罷免連署案是適用於修法後嗎還是目前所有的罷免連署提議案都是適用舊法\n\n05:13.632 --> 05:29.358\n包括委員都是適用舊法全部嘛對不對好那現在我們看到民間還有消息在說罷免陳玉珍委員第一階段沒有成功可是有人開始發送意願調查表可能也會發動後續連署所以後續送進來是不是就適用新法\n\n05:29.898 --> 05:54.385\n報告是好適用心法所以講得很清楚所以國立黨黨團自己當時的修法規定連署要附身分證我認為搞不好真的附身分證他們今天就不會有這麼多死亡連署因為死人拿不出身分證我們來看一下下面這張表格是我們辦公室自己整理的加上中選會現在公佈的資料罷率我們看到最可笑的部分罷藍委的最低合格率\n\n05:55.245 --> 06:12.592\n都還高過罷律委的最高合格率這代表什麼意思你們再看這個表格你們研究一下這個表格我們要看到荒謬的是合格率死亡連署的問題如果是這一次我們看到所有罷免名冊最大大家認為最有法律爭議的問題我想要先問中選會\n\n06:14.893 --> 06:44.105\n新聞報導說中選會目前已經告發41件涉嫌死亡連署偽造連署的罷免案但是這41件數字目前是正確的嗎是好那這41件裡面是不是有罷藍委罷綠委包含罷綠預言都有告發有都有告發對不對所以不分藍綠都辦我認為這是一種行政中立就你們角度是嗎報告是是好再來目前告發的41件是不是都是屬於一階的連署\n\n06:45.511 --> 06:56.942\n目前都是屬於提議階段的提議階段好那補件的部分是不是也會也是包含在這裡頭補件的部分也包括在這裡面好所以這41件聽起來就是有罷綠委有罷藍委還有罷綠的議員然後包含一階連署還有包含補件的部分都是這樣那我接下來幫大家請問全台灣人民現在最關心的\n\n07:08.672 --> 07:33.476\n接下來二階就馬上要送進來的不管是四月底或是五月初是不是我們後續也會依照這個行政中立的部分針對我們認為有偽造連署、死亡連署、造假連署的部分依法告發報告委員因為在連署的部分一樣有偽造的部分的一個審查所以如果這一部分也有死亡連署的部分的話我們還是會依法告發\n\n07:33.916 --> 08:01.992\n好謝謝中選會行政中立依法告發不管是罷免是哪一個黨派的委員或者是議員接下來我請問法務部當中選會依法告發之後你們是不是都要調查處理我們檢察機關接到中選會的高案件都會立案來偵辦那這部分就是有問必查有據必辦覺得秉持檢察罪有犯罪嫌疑就要啟動調查這個沒有任何的立場\n\n08:02.492 --> 08:18.005\n好一樣謝謝你的回覆不要有任何的立場該辦就辦我認為這才是維護台灣民主自由最重要的基礎我想要講一個一般人可能比較聽得懂的例子如果在全台灣一萬個人當中有一個人身上他有一到兩張的尾鈔我們可能會覺得那個是意外或是他在買賣買賣東西付現金的過程當中拿到這個尾鈔一萬個人當中有一個人他身上一到兩張\n\n08:31.135 --> 08:46.015\n可是如果我們在某一群一兩百個人當中一萬個人當中有一兩百個人他們身上同時都有好幾張的偽鈔那我們就要懷疑他有沒有可能是組織犯罪我自己認為現在所有的\n\n08:46.536 --> 09:11.725\n不當的這些連署也就是我說的罷律委的這些不當的數字裡面他們的合格率這麼低然後他們的造假率這麼高我認為就是我剛剛說的身上持有偽鈔疑似有可能是組織犯罪所以我非常謝謝部長您剛剛的回答就是依法調查在中選會依法告發之後我覺得這件事情非常重要來下一張我剛剛講的是第一階段提議的時候送件\n\n09:12.925 --> 09:40.630\n補件的部分我們來看以蘇喬惠委員被罷免的例子提案的罷免例子來說不合格率高達45%提議前死亡31重複提議244未簽名或蓋章131居住期間太短197我覺得最可笑最荒謬的是連補件都補不好給你補考都補不好照抄都抄不好超過10%這個狀況我想問一下法務部跟中學會你們怎麼看補件還出現像這樣的狀況\n\n09:47.301 --> 09:55.043\n好你們行政中立我就不讓你們回答但是我要提醒你們來往下看現在有人自己公開說對我就是超明策\n\n09:56.395 --> 10:21.233\n這個是罷免許志傑的領銜人朱磊電視螢幕大家都看見了他說黨安排黨員抄黨員名冊有錯嗎一個黨如果不容許黨員抄名單那還叫黨嗎他說黨員不是普通民眾他在黨的利益面前是沒有個資可言的我剛剛為什麼要回溯修法的過程個資法這件事情國民黨視之為無物啊下一張\n\n10:23.667 --> 10:51.188\n國民黨的大佬趙少康董事長前中廣董事長他說有沒有抄名單人家問他他說我認為會有啦因為有很多是國民黨員他說還有死亡名單他自己都說囉他還說可是應該沒有嚴重到要把人關起來吧所以為什麼我剛剛要請教中選會到底是適用舊法還是新法因為目前我認為有非常多國民黨的支持者他們在擔心會不會他們的名單被拿去抄\n\n10:52.009 --> 11:06.574\n然後他們就變成那個犯罪嫌疑人我覺得這件事情是非常非常可怕的也就是說不管是朱磊或是趙少康他們都不是所謂的綠營側翼而他們都在螢幕受訪的時候公開間接證實有超明側下一張\n\n11:11.926 --> 11:32.858\n大家就很好奇啦這個造假或是死亡提議到底是誰糾舉出來的可能很多人搞不清楚相關程序喔感謝台北市選委會主委李泰鑫他說死亡連署是戶政事務所用電腦核對出來的甚至還有查出連簽名的時候名字都簽錯\n\n11:34.079 --> 12:00.593\n也就是如果陳培宇今天要去簽一張罷免聯署書但是我可能最後簽名的時候簽的是別人的名字為什麼會發生這個狀況李泰鑫說選委會台北市選委會如果一旦收到中選會所交付第一階段也就是提議階段的聯署書名冊會交給戶政事務所去查對是不是有死亡有沒有在籍而這一次死亡聯署就是台北市戶政事務所查出來的這個他們的說法請問中選會是正確的嗎\n\n12:06.172 --> 12:20.884\n台北市選委會說是你們把資料交給台北市選委會去核對資料而台北市選委會把資料交給戶政事務所去查核這個人有沒有死亡這個人有沒有在籍他說法是對的嗎程序上是這個程序上是對的好來下一張\n\n12:22.441 --> 12:47.578\n我們看到在國民黨送交的不實聯署文件當中甚至昨天新聞媒體還說有聯署人的名字跟他們的黨員名冊是一樣的可是住址不對仔細一看呢把黨員名冊拿過來對照發現資料那個地址剛好抄錯也就是第一行跟第二行馬上壞掉了抄不對連抄都抄不好把解答拿給他寫都寫不好這是現在我們看到的狀況所以我想要接著請問總選會\n\n12:50.720 --> 12:59.604\n一階段罷免的查核確認你剛剛說了是由地方縣市政府的選委會負責處理而不是中選會對不對那如果是按照你所說的這樣目前在罷綠委罷藍委的部分他不管縣市政府的執政縣市首長是藍營還是綠營我認為他們應該都會保持行政中立去做確實的查核對嗎這個部分中選會對於地方的選委會有沒有這樣的信心\n\n13:17.911 --> 13:42.944\n報告有因為我們都是依法辦理選務而且希望說在辦理的過程當中我們能夠維持選務中立這樣子的一個形象好謝謝你的呼籲我也呼籲各地方的選委會要在中選會的呼籲下保持行政中立他們不是只有做這個事情國民黨人呢接下來做妨礙司法公正的事情我們來看一下真的是讓我不知道怎麼教小孩過去做親子教育做了20年\n\n13:44.105 --> 13:56.034\n我來問一下法務部這些人國民黨朱立倫蔣萬安楊志宇謝龍介等一干立法委員在禁制區集會有沒有違法\n\n13:57.213 --> 14:12.452\n法務部在集會遊行第六條集會遊行部的在各級法院周邊來做一個舉行好所以是有違法的嗎這個違法這部分那個中正議會已經報北京人指揮了好中正議分局會報備已經報台北京人指揮偵辦已經北京人分他案來\n\n14:16.437 --> 14:33.483\n分他案處理了而且當天我看不懂的是警察聚巧性的舉牌這個我就不說了但是我真的看不懂的是台北市長蔣萬安他仍在現場他講了一句話我讀了一個禮拜我還是讀不懂他說今晚我個人的行為所有的責任我個人自己承擔\n\n14:35.665 --> 14:36.726\n這部分我想那個\n\n14:55.136 --> 15:08.363\n我認為好你答不出來我幫你答啦我認為今天如果一個公務員可以說他個人的行為個人承擔那他就開始從事違法行為可以這樣嗎我身為一個立法委員我在立法院的問政過程當中我有言論免責權\n\n15:09.924 --> 15:32.932\n但是我不可以站到街口隨便一個地方然後說我陳培宇不代表立法委員我代表我個人我可以隨便的毀謗侮辱任何人嗎不行嘛所以什麼叫做個人違法行為他自己承擔我看不懂結果你也看不懂謝謝你剛剛神秘的微笑我認為在這一場違法集會當中更荒謬的是有一些立法者\n\n15:33.852 --> 15:41.147\n立法委員帶頭違法集會到底我們這個國家的法治要怎麼執行下去部長很難對不對\n\n15:44.619 --> 16:11.577\n好沒關係你答不出來我也答不出來齁我真的很想知道為什麼接下來更可笑的事情出現了齁國民黨的智庫副執行長朱立倫的子弟兵林濤在他的臉書上面說檢警要在禮拜一的下午就是4月21號那一天他先發了一個文然後瘋傳沒辦法轉這個文說禮拜一下午3點檢警要衝進國民黨中央黨部搜索這個新聞第一時間是這樣後來呢\n\n16:14.139 --> 16:35.368\n你們發了一個新聞稿說沒有這件事情到了下午四點林濤就說啊他們改成送這個公文所以是作賊心虛說你們作賊心虛你可不可以說一下難道違法都不可以跳牆嗎難道違法帶頭作亂的人都只能裝成自己是政治被迫害的人司法迫害的人嗎可不可以請你們說明一下到底當天這件事情是怎麼回事\n\n16:36.148 --> 17:03.367\n這部分就是在4月21日的確有這樣的一個傳聞那這部分那個北檢已經發新聞稿就澄清就是這完全跟事實不符是那他後來就說你們用一個公文的部分用寄信的方法寄資料過去叫他們出來說明然後說你們作賊心虛有這樣嗎這個不是有台北地檢署在處理的好所以這個是由警方中正義分局處理的好沒關係所以到底有沒有作賊心虛\n\n17:05.043 --> 17:12.809\n這是政治迫害嗎也不是嗎根本就沒有這個事情這個我們在新聞稿已經澄清這個完全以事實不符好完全以事實不符我們來看一下\n\n17:14.571 --> 17:41.949\n我剛講了這麼多我要說國民黨立委先修法新增連署造假罰則他們覺得他們是站在正義的一方我就說今天所有的問題很多你沒有辦法回答我自己也沒有辦法回答國民黨的罷團就不敢用修正後的選罷法規定所以他們在新法生效以前先趕快送進去接下來繼續抄寫名冊涉嫌造假連署我剛也已經說了接下來地方政府的選委會在行政中立上抓出很多連署造假才把相關資料交給檢調去告發結果呢\n\n17:45.152 --> 17:57.330\n被告發的次數太多那個數量太大可能超乎他們的想像他們就號召黨公子在北檢外面違法集會然後等到違法集會被警告之後呢要被\n\n17:58.479 --> 18:27.900\n相關的事情剪掉處理之後他們就說民進黨執政黨政治追殺司法迫害我必須要說這一切的事情真的讓我們覺得非常非常難以想像但我非常謝謝部長跟中選會剛剛根據行政中立的部分或者是違法告發的部分你們都說出了非常明確的見解我也希望在後續不管是罷藍罷綠的委員或者是議員在所有的事件當中大家都要秉公處理依法處理依法行政中立\n\n18:28.340 --> 18:42.986\n可以嗎這個我們一定是恪守行政中立是中選會因為接下來二級要送進來了是我們會一樣跟提議的時候一樣謹守行政中立好謝謝你們主席我可以再一分鐘嗎\n\n18:44.771 --> 19:10.448\n謝謝主席來下一張超過8分鐘8分鐘好那沒關係最後一張來下一張我就直接問了來人民的恐懼來最後一張這一張好來警察清晨登門查問有沒有連署罷免那政論主持人就問啦怎麼會這樣辦案這邊我要跟部長您說甚至我的好朋友打電話給我說他的媽媽是忠貞的忠貞而且終身的國民黨黨員\n\n19:11.869 --> 19:36.059\n他不知道他的名字被拿去抄結果他真的也被警察上門問了這個是我的好朋友已經私訊給我了我還打電話跟他解釋到底這整個流程是發生了什麼事情請問可以這樣辦案嗎這是正常的調查程序嗎如果他不正常請告訴我們什麼叫做正常調查程序並且請你公開呼籲所有各地的檢調單位他們針對這個造假罷免連署他們應該要如何處理謝謝\n\n19:37.922 --> 19:58.874\n這個是檢察官是有揭發那個傳票是就傳票請那個司法警察就是有來做一個送達這個是合乎這次合乎那個刑事訴訟法第61條的規定送達文書號就是由那個司法警察跟郵輸機關來送達這個是屬於合法的一個行為那為什麼要這樣這樣的早上6點6點因為已經\n\n20:00.475 --> 20:25.142\n早上六點你起床了嗎部長這個是看個人不過我們是考慮到基隆的特殊性因為基隆的民眾絕大部分就在外地的一個工作所以我們避免就是說那個被傳喚的對象那個時候還要再跑一趟所以我們就專人的送達他叫專人送達喔你看連主席都害逃了啦那個送達本來就是由\n\n20:26.498 --> 20:27.619\n訴訟法第六十一司法警察機關\n\n20:56.798 --> 21:17.950\n而且我們先不要講那個上門的人態度怎麼樣所以我現在拜託你公開的呼籲說清楚到底什麼叫做正常的調查程序這個是傳票的一個送達班這是六點半開始送達的那個早上六點半那已經都大家就準備要上班的時間了部長你真的確定喔\n\n21:19.667 --> 21:37.807\n好沒關係我們會後再來討論但是我認為到底什麼叫正常調查程序真的還是要說清楚了而且拜託用我們一般鄉親公民聽得懂的語言什麼叫6點半是正常收拿程序但有沒有其他更好的處理方法在不擾民的情況下完成你們剛剛說的相關的檢調行為可以嗎\n\n21:40.528 --> 21:47.930\n這部分我們當然可以再重範的話我們可以再更講究我們會後會再跟你們我們會後會再跟你們索取相關資料也會再跟你們開會討論我認為真的要說清楚好嗎謝謝謝謝陳委員部長這個說基隆人的生活習慣所以需要早上6點去送我覺得這句話滿不妥這是6點半以後\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.001,"end":25.239,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請法務部還有中選會麻煩部長 中選會委員早好 部長早 我們等一下中選會"},{"start":28.43,"end":57.435,"text":"好那我們就開始喔那既然要來談關於今天的專題報告我認為我們應該回溯一下最近一次公職人員選舉罷免辦法的修法過程我們來看一下之前呢國民黨的委員曾經說這個相關的辦法修法沒有時間表大家可以好好的討論可是呢在上個會期卻在相關的委員會把所有的民進黨委員關在裡面只有少數的國民黨委員在裡面而且不到三分鐘就把這個修法的草案送出委員會"},{"start":58.235,"end":82.907,"text":"那當然之後呢更是用粗暴的方法通過相關法案我們來看一下當時呢他們的修法提案是怎麼說的他們說公職人員選舉罷免法相關的事件屢屢出現相同筆記的連署還說有死亡者的提議的連署會讓有心人士藉由這個連署的動作呢收集到大量個資然後假冒提議連署"},{"start":84.308,"end":101.293,"text":"所以呢他們認為缺乏代表性而且徐玉珍委員提案委員他還說違反個人資料保護所以他們就提出了這個修法這個是發生在立法院的事情好對比於現在我們來看到相關的數字我認為真的是不勝唏噓來下一張"},{"start":103.274,"end":124.159,"text":"除了相關數字之外呢國民黨號稱法學專家的翁小玲委員她自己在當時三讀通過的時候這是她的上台發言她說我在這裡要警告那些打算大抄特抄連署造假的罷免團體不要以為說未造連署會沒有事然後她就巴拉巴拉又講了很多"},{"start":124.619,"end":141.759,"text":"他提醒大家他身為法學專家他想要提醒大家他說未來只要有連署假冒的相關人士要處五年以下的有期徒刑拘役還有病科一百萬元以下罰金同時還提醒大家可能違反各自法相關規定"},{"start":142.8,"end":168.331,"text":"再次提醒他還說法律追溯其實20年請大家不要以身試法挑戰法律的界限我想要問一下這是翁小玲委員當時說而且他認為他提醒大家他說全台灣人民都要來支持像這樣子的良善制度這是國民黨的不分區翁小玲委員揭示這一次的修法核心意旨他認為這些事情非常非常的重要"},{"start":168.971,"end":187.179,"text":"昨天的新聞我們看到中選會你們表態說在新法生效以前所有發起的罷免案都還是適用舊法的規定但我認為不論是新法還是舊法所有的罷免連署我們要避免就是造假"},{"start":187.839,"end":217.154,"text":"死亡還有重複提議我認為這件事情不論新法舊法所有維護台灣法治維護台灣民主的人都會認為是重要的事情對嗎 部長您覺得這個死亡連署或者是違照那個未經同意違照他的簽章來做一個連署或提議的話那這個的確是反派罷免或選舉的一個行為那這個是嚴重腐蝕民主政治的一個機制我想這個立法這個是我們是贊同的好"},{"start":217.774,"end":233.559,"text":"在立法的角度你是贊同的所以他們的國民黨通過這個版本那我們來看一下之後呢在國民黨的羅志強委員他的二階連署被通過之後他在新聞媒體上公開的呼籲我們現在相關的報導用的是聯合報的報導聯合報裡面說羅志強委員提醒大家說今日用力操明月吐塵看守所等你"},{"start":242.401,"end":269.507,"text":"他還提醒大家今日為了迎頭小利出賣靈魂明日就要為了今日所做的行為付出代價呼應部長您剛說的這確實是違法的樣態大家都要很小心很注意我也認為這個不論是任何政治形態支持者或者是所有霸團之間大家都有這個共識也就是有做了違法的事情我們就是要調查就是要處理 對嗎好 我們來看一下"},{"start":270.387,"end":272.708,"text":"根據這個中選會的資料我們來看到國民黨的黨團我認為他們為了剝奪人民罷免的權利他們在這一次的修法當中加嚴罷免的連署書門檻可是我認為可笑的是所有要罷綠委的提議"},{"start":289.372,"end":313.056,"text":"都敢在新法生效前趕快送出第一階段連署我認為國民黨人自己也不敢面對新法剛剛您說的加重刑罰那個部分我認為他們自己也不敢面對所以我想問一下中選會截至目前為止有任何的罷免連署案是適用於修法後嗎還是目前所有的罷免連署提議案都是適用舊法"},{"start":313.632,"end":329.358,"text":"包括委員都是適用舊法全部嘛對不對好那現在我們看到民間還有消息在說罷免陳玉珍委員第一階段沒有成功可是有人開始發送意願調查表可能也會發動後續連署所以後續送進來是不是就適用新法"},{"start":329.898,"end":354.385,"text":"報告是好 適用心法所以講得很清楚所以國立黨黨團自己當時的修法規定連署要附身分證我認為搞不好真的附身分證他們今天就不會有這麼多死亡連署因為死人拿不出身分證我們來看一下下面這張表格是我們辦公室自己整理的加上中選會現在公佈的資料罷率我們看到最可笑的部分罷藍委的最低合格率"},{"start":355.245,"end":372.592,"text":"都還高過罷律委的最高合格率這代表什麼意思你們再看這個表格你們研究一下這個表格我們要看到荒謬的是合格率死亡連署的問題如果是這一次我們看到所有罷免名冊最大大家認為最有法律爭議的問題我想要先問中選會"},{"start":374.893,"end":404.105,"text":"新聞報導說中選會目前已經告發41件涉嫌死亡連署偽造連署的罷免案但是這41件數字目前是正確的嗎是好那這41件裡面是不是有罷藍委罷綠委包含罷綠預言都有告發有都有告發對不對所以不分藍綠都辦我認為這是一種行政中立就你們角度是嗎報告是是好再來目前告發的41件是不是都是屬於一階的連署"},{"start":405.511,"end":416.942,"text":"目前都是屬於提議階段的提議階段好那補件的部分是不是也會也是包含在這裡頭補件的部分也包括在這裡面好所以這41件聽起來就是有罷綠委有罷藍委還有罷綠的議員然後包含一階連署還有包含補件的部分都是這樣那我接下來幫大家請問全台灣人民現在最關心的"},{"start":428.672,"end":453.476,"text":"接下來二階就馬上要送進來的不管是四月底或是五月初是不是我們後續也會依照這個行政中立的部分針對我們認為有偽造連署、死亡連署、造假連署的部分依法告發報告委員因為在連署的部分一樣有偽造的部分的一個審查所以如果這一部分也有死亡連署的部分的話我們還是會依法告發"},{"start":453.916,"end":481.992,"text":"好 謝謝中選會行政中立依法告發不管是罷免是哪一個黨派的委員或者是議員接下來我請問法務部當中選會依法告發之後你們是不是都要調查處理我們檢察機關接到中選會的高案件都會立案來偵辦那這部分就是有問必查有據必辦覺得秉持檢察罪有犯罪嫌疑就要啟動調查這個沒有任何的立場"},{"start":482.492,"end":498.005,"text":"好一樣謝謝你的回覆不要有任何的立場該辦就辦我認為這才是維護台灣民主自由最重要的基礎我想要講一個一般人可能比較聽得懂的例子如果在全台灣一萬個人當中有一個人身上他有一到兩張的尾鈔我們可能會覺得那個是意外或是他在買賣買賣東西付現金的過程當中拿到這個尾鈔一萬個人當中有一個人他身上一到兩張"},{"start":511.135,"end":526.015,"text":"可是如果我們在某一群一兩百個人當中一萬個人當中有一兩百個人他們身上同時都有好幾張的偽鈔那我們就要懷疑他有沒有可能是組織犯罪我自己認為現在所有的"},{"start":526.536,"end":551.725,"text":"不當的這些連署 也就是我說的罷律委的這些不當的數字裡面他們的合格率這麼低然後他們的造假率這麼高我認為就是我剛剛說的身上持有偽鈔疑似有可能是組織犯罪所以我非常謝謝部長您剛剛的回答就是依法調查在中選會依法告發之後我覺得這件事情非常重要來 下一張我剛剛講的是第一階段提議的時候送件"},{"start":552.925,"end":580.63,"text":"補件的部分我們來看以蘇喬惠委員被罷免的例子提案的罷免例子來說不合格率高達45%提議前死亡31重複提議244未簽名或蓋章131居住期間太短197我覺得最可笑最荒謬的是連補件都補不好給你補考都補不好照抄都抄不好超過10%這個狀況我想問一下法務部跟中學會你們怎麼看補件還出現像這樣的狀況"},{"start":587.301,"end":595.043,"text":"好 你們行政中立我就不讓你們回答但是我要提醒你們來往下看現在有人自己公開說對我就是超明策"},{"start":596.395,"end":621.233,"text":"這個是罷免許志傑的領銜人朱磊電視螢幕大家都看見了他說黨安排黨員抄黨員名冊有錯嗎一個黨如果不容許黨員抄名單那還叫黨嗎他說黨員不是普通民眾他在黨的利益面前是沒有個資可言的我剛剛為什麼要回溯修法的過程個資法這件事情國民黨視之為無物啊下一張"},{"start":623.667,"end":651.188,"text":"國民黨的大佬趙少康 董事長 前中廣董事長他說有沒有抄名單 人家問他他說我認為會有啦 因為有很多是國民黨員他說還有死亡名單 他自己都說囉他還說 可是應該沒有嚴重到要把人關起來吧所以為什麼我剛剛要請教中選會到底是適用舊法還是新法因為目前我認為有非常多國民黨的支持者他們在擔心會不會他們的名單被拿去抄"},{"start":652.009,"end":666.574,"text":"然後他們就變成那個犯罪嫌疑人我覺得這件事情是非常非常可怕的也就是說不管是朱磊或是趙少康他們都不是所謂的綠營側翼而他們都在螢幕受訪的時候公開間接證實有超明側下一張"},{"start":671.926,"end":692.858,"text":"大家就很好奇啦 這個造假或是死亡提議到底是誰糾舉出來的可能很多人搞不清楚相關程序喔感謝台北市選委會主委李泰鑫他說死亡連署是戶政事務所用電腦核對出來的甚至還有查出連簽名的時候名字都簽錯"},{"start":694.079,"end":720.593,"text":"也就是如果陳培宇今天要去簽一張罷免聯署書但是我可能最後簽名的時候簽的是別人的名字為什麼會發生這個狀況李泰鑫說選委會台北市選委會如果一旦收到中選會所交付第一階段也就是提議階段的聯署書名冊會交給戶政事務所去查對是不是有死亡有沒有在籍而這一次死亡聯署就是台北市戶政事務所查出來的這個他們的說法請問中選會是正確的嗎"},{"start":726.172,"end":740.884,"text":"台北市選委會說是你們把資料交給台北市選委會去核對資料而台北市選委會把資料交給戶政事務所去查核這個人有沒有死亡這個人有沒有在籍他說法是對的嗎程序上是這個程序上是對的好來下一張"},{"start":742.441,"end":767.578,"text":"我們看到在國民黨送交的不實聯署文件當中甚至昨天新聞媒體還說有聯署人的名字跟他們的黨員名冊是一樣的可是住址不對仔細一看呢 把黨員名冊拿過來對照發現資料那個地址剛好抄錯也就是第一行跟第二行 馬上壞掉了 抄不對連抄都抄不好 把解答拿給他寫 都寫不好這是現在我們看到的狀況所以我想要接著請問總選會"},{"start":770.72,"end":779.604,"text":"一階段罷免的查核確認你剛剛說了是由地方縣市政府的選委會負責處理而不是中選會對不對那如果是按照你所說的這樣目前在罷綠委罷藍委的部分他不管縣市政府的執政縣市首長是藍營還是綠營我認為他們應該都會保持行政中立去做確實的查核對嗎這個部分中選會對於地方的選委會有沒有這樣的信心"},{"start":797.911,"end":822.944,"text":"報告有 因為我們都是依法辦理選務而且希望說在辦理的過程當中我們能夠維持選務中立這樣子的一個形象好 謝謝你的呼籲我也呼籲各地方的選委會要在中選會的呼籲下保持行政中立他們不是只有做這個事情國民黨人呢接下來做妨礙司法公正的事情我們來看一下真的是讓我不知道怎麼教小孩過去做親子教育做了20年"},{"start":824.105,"end":836.034,"text":"我來問一下法務部這些人國民黨朱立倫 蔣萬安楊志宇 謝龍介等一干立法委員在禁制區集會有沒有違法"},{"start":837.213,"end":852.452,"text":"法務部在集會遊行第六條集會遊行部的在各級法院周邊來做一個舉行好所以是有違法的嗎這個違法這部分那個中正議會已經報北京人指揮了好中正議分局會報備已經報台北京人指揮偵辦已經北京人分他案來"},{"start":856.437,"end":873.483,"text":"分他案處理了而且當天我看不懂的是警察聚巧性的舉牌這個我就不說了但是我真的看不懂的是台北市長蔣萬安他仍在現場他講了一句話我讀了一個禮拜我還是讀不懂他說今晚我個人的行為所有的責任我個人自己承擔"},{"start":875.665,"end":876.726,"text":"這部分我想那個"},{"start":895.136,"end":908.363,"text":"我認為好你答不出來我幫你答啦我認為今天如果一個公務員可以說他個人的行為個人承擔那他就開始從事違法行為可以這樣嗎我身為一個立法委員我在立法院的問政過程當中我有言論免責權"},{"start":909.924,"end":932.932,"text":"但是我不可以站到街口隨便一個地方然後說我陳培宇不代表立法委員我代表我個人我可以隨便的毀謗 侮辱任何人嗎不行嘛所以什麼叫做個人違法行為他自己承擔我看不懂 結果你也看不懂謝謝你剛剛神秘的微笑我認為在這一場違法集會當中更荒謬的是有一些立法者"},{"start":933.852,"end":941.147,"text":"立法委員帶頭違法集會到底我們這個國家的法治要怎麼執行下去部長很難對不對"},{"start":944.619,"end":971.577,"text":"好 沒關係你答不出來我也答不出來齁我真的很想知道為什麼接下來更可笑的事情出現了齁國民黨的智庫副執行長朱立倫的子弟兵林濤在他的臉書上面說檢警要在禮拜一的下午就是4月21號那一天他先發了一個文然後瘋傳沒辦法轉這個文說禮拜一下午3點檢警要衝進國民黨中央黨部搜索這個新聞第一時間是這樣後來呢"},{"start":974.139,"end":995.368,"text":"你們發了一個新聞稿說沒有這件事情到了下午四點林濤就說啊他們改成送這個公文所以是作賊心虛說你們作賊心虛你可不可以說一下難道違法都不可以跳牆嗎難道違法帶頭作亂的人都只能裝成自己是政治被迫害的人司法迫害的人嗎可不可以請你們說明一下到底當天這件事情是怎麼回事"},{"start":996.148,"end":1023.367,"text":"這部分就是在4月21日的確有這樣的一個傳聞那這部分那個北檢已經發新聞稿就澄清就是這完全跟事實不符是 那他後來就說你們用一個公文的部分用寄信的方法寄資料過去叫他們出來說明然後說你們作賊心虛有這樣嗎這個不是有台北地檢署在處理的好 所以這個是由警方中正義分局處理的好 沒關係所以到底有沒有作賊心虛"},{"start":1025.043,"end":1032.809,"text":"這是政治迫害嗎 也不是嗎 根本就沒有這個事情這個我們在新聞稿已經澄清 這個完全以事實不符好 完全以事實不符 我們來看一下"},{"start":1034.571,"end":1061.949,"text":"我剛講了這麼多我要說國民黨立委先修法新增連署造假罰則他們覺得他們是站在正義的一方我就說今天所有的問題很多你沒有辦法回答我自己也沒有辦法回答國民黨的罷團就不敢用修正後的選罷法規定所以他們在新法生效以前先趕快送進去接下來繼續抄寫名冊涉嫌造假連署我剛也已經說了接下來地方政府的選委會在行政中立上抓出很多連署造假才把相關資料交給檢調去告發結果呢"},{"start":1065.152,"end":1077.33,"text":"被告發的次數太多那個數量太大可能超乎他們的想像他們就號召黨公子在北檢外面違法集會然後等到違法集會被警告之後呢要被"},{"start":1078.479,"end":1107.9,"text":"相關的事情剪掉處理之後他們就說民進黨執政黨政治追殺司法迫害我必須要說這一切的事情真的讓我們覺得非常非常難以想像但我非常謝謝部長跟中選會剛剛根據行政中立的部分或者是違法告發的部分你們都說出了非常明確的見解我也希望在後續不管是罷藍罷綠的委員或者是議員在所有的事件當中大家都要秉公處理依法處理依法行政中立"},{"start":1108.34,"end":1122.986,"text":"可以嗎這個我們一定是恪守行政中立是 中選會因為接下來二級要送進來了是 我們會一樣跟提議的時候一樣謹守行政中立好 謝謝你們主席我可以再一分鐘嗎"},{"start":1124.771,"end":1150.448,"text":"謝謝主席來 下一張超過8分鐘8分鐘 好那沒關係 最後一張來 下一張我就直接問了來 人民的恐懼來 最後一張這一張好 來警察清晨登門查問有沒有連署罷免那政論主持人就問啦怎麼會這樣辦案這邊我要跟部長您說甚至我的好朋友打電話給我說他的媽媽是忠貞的忠貞而且終身的國民黨黨員"},{"start":1151.869,"end":1176.059,"text":"他不知道他的名字被拿去抄結果他真的也被警察上門問了這個是我的好朋友已經私訊給我了我還打電話跟他解釋到底這整個流程是發生了什麼事情請問可以這樣辦案嗎這是正常的調查程序嗎如果他不正常請告訴我們什麼叫做正常調查程序並且請你公開呼籲所有各地的檢調單位他們針對這個造假罷免連署他們應該要如何處理 謝謝"},{"start":1177.922,"end":1198.874,"text":"這個是檢察官是有揭發那個傳票是就傳票請那個司法警察就是有來做一個送達這個是合乎這次合乎那個刑事訴訟法第61條的規定送達文書號就是由那個司法警察跟郵輸機關來送達這個是屬於合法的一個行為那為什麼要這樣這樣的早上6點6點因為已經"},{"start":1200.475,"end":1225.142,"text":"早上六點你起床了嗎部長這個是看個人不過我們是考慮到基隆的特殊性因為基隆的民眾絕大部分就在外地的一個工作所以我們避免就是說那個被傳喚的對象那個時候還要再跑一趟所以我們就專人的送達他叫專人送達喔你看連主席都害逃了啦那個送達本來就是由"},{"start":1226.498,"end":1227.619,"text":"訴訟法第六十一 司法警察機關"},{"start":1256.798,"end":1277.95,"text":"而且我們先不要講那個上門的人態度怎麼樣所以我現在拜託你公開的呼籲說清楚到底什麼叫做正常的調查程序這個是傳票的一個送達班這是六點半開始送達的那個早上六點半那已經都大家就準備要上班的時間了部長你真的確定喔"},{"start":1279.667,"end":1297.807,"text":"好沒關係我們會後再來討論但是我認為到底什麼叫正常調查程序真的還是要說清楚了而且拜託用我們一般鄉親公民聽得懂的語言什麼叫6點半是正常收拿程序但有沒有其他更好的處理方法在不擾民的情況下完成你們剛剛說的相關的檢調行為可以嗎"},{"start":1300.528,"end":1307.93,"text":"這部分我們當然可以再重範的話我們可以再更講究我們會後會再跟你們我們會後會再跟你們索取相關資料也會再跟你們開會討論我認為真的要說清楚好嗎謝謝謝謝陳委員部長這個說基隆人的生活習慣所以需要早上6點去送我覺得這句話滿不妥這是6點半以後"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":266,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時12分）謝謝主席，有請法務部及中選會。"],["主席：麻煩部長及中選會。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長早。我們等一下再詢問中選會。既然要來談關於今天的專題報告，我認為我們應該回溯一下最近一次公職人員選舉罷免法的修法過程，我們來看一下，之前國民黨委員曾經說相關的辦法修法沒有時間表，大家可以好好的討論，可是上個會期卻在相關委員會把所有的民進黨委員關在裡面，只有少數的國民黨委員在裡面，而且不到3分鐘就把修法的草案送出委員會，當然之後更是用粗暴的方法通過相關法案。我們來看一下當時他們的修法提案是怎麼說的？他們說公職人員選舉罷免法相關事件屢屢出現相同筆跡的連署，還說有死亡者提議的連署，會讓有心人士藉由連署的動作蒐集到大量個資，然後假冒提議連署，所以他們認為缺乏代表性，而且提案委員許宇甄委員還說違反個人資料保護，所以他們就提出了修法，這是發生在立法院的事情。對比於我們現在所看到的相關數字，我認為真的是不勝唏噓，除了相關數字之外，國民黨號稱法學專家的翁曉玲委員，他自己在當時三讀通過的時候上臺發言，他說：我在這裡要警告那些打算大抄特抄、連署造假的罷免團體，不要以為偽造連署會沒有事。然後他又講了很多，他說他身為法學專家，他想要提醒大家，未來只要有連署假冒的相關人士，要處五年以下有期徒刑、拘役，還有併科一百萬元以下罰金，同時還提醒大家可能違反個資法相關規定。他還再次提醒說法律追溯期是二十年，請大家不要以身試法，挑戰法律的界限。我想要問一下，這是翁曉玲委員當時說的，而且他提醒大家，他說全臺灣人民都要來支持像這樣子的良善制度，這是國民黨的不分區翁曉玲委員所揭示的這一次的修法核心意旨，他認為這些事情非常非常重要。","從昨天的新聞，我們看到中選會表態說在新法生效以前，所有發起的罷免案都還是適用舊法的規定，但我認為不論是新法還是就法，所有的罷免連署都要避免造假死亡及重複提議，我認為這件事情不論新法、舊法，所有維護臺灣法治、維護臺灣民主的人都會認為這是重要的事情對嗎？部長，您覺得如何？"],["鄭部長銘謙：死亡連署或是未經同意偽造他人簽章來連署或提議，的確是妨害罷免或選舉的行為，這已經嚴重腐蝕民主政治的基石，我想這個立法我們是贊同的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以站在立法的角度，你是贊同國民黨所通過的版本。我們來看一下，之後在國民黨羅智強委員的二階連署被通過之後，他在新聞媒體上公開呼籲。現在相關報導用的是聯合報的報導，根據聯合報的報導，羅智強委員提醒大家說：今日用力抄，明日土城看守所等你。他還提醒大家：今日為了蠅頭小利出賣靈魂，明日就要為今日所做的行為付出代價。呼應部長您剛剛說的，這確實是違法的樣態，大家都要很小心、很注意，我也認為不論任何政治型態的支持者，或者是所有罷團之間，大家都有這個共識，也就是如果有做了違法的事情，我們就是要調查、就是要處理，對嗎？根據中選會的資料，我們看到國民黨黨團為了剝奪人民罷免的權利，他們在這一次的修法當中加嚴罷免的連署書門檻，可是我認為可笑的是，所有要罷綠委的提議都趕在新法生效前趕快送出第一階段連署。我認為國民黨自己也不敢面對新法，關於剛剛您所說的加重刑罰那個部分，我認為他們自己也不敢面對，所以我想問一下中選會，截至目前為止，有任何的罷免連署案是適用於修法後嗎？還是目前所有的罷免連署提議案都是適用舊法？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：報告委員，都是適用舊法。"],["陳委員培瑜：全部嘛，對不對？好，現在我們看到民間還有消息在說罷免陳玉珍委員第一階段沒有成功，可是有人開始發送意願調查表，可能也會發動後續連署，所以後續送進來是不是就適用新法？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，適用新法，所以講得很清楚了，國民黨黨團自己當時的修法規定是連署要附身分證，我認為如果真的附身分證，搞不好他們今天就不會有這麼多死亡連署，因為死人拿不出身分證。","我們來看一下，下面這張表格是我們辦公室自己整理的，另外還加上中選會現在公布的資料，我們看到最可笑的部分是罷藍委的最低合格率都還高過罷綠委的最高合格率，這代表什麼意思？你們在看這個表格對不對？你們研究一下，從這個表格我們可以看到荒謬的是合格率、死亡連署的問題，如果是這一次我們看到所有的罷免名冊大家認為最有法律爭議的問題，我想要先問中選會，新聞報導說中選會目前已經告發41件涉嫌死亡連署、偽造連署的罷免案，但是目前這41件的數字是正確的嗎？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這41件裡面是不是有罷藍委、罷綠委，包含罷綠議員都有告發？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：有。"],["陳委員培瑜：都有告發對不對？所以不分藍綠都辦，我認為這是一種行政中立，就你們的角度是嗎？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：再來，目前告發的41件是不是都是屬於一階的連署？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：目前都是屬於提議階段的偽造。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那補件的部分是不是也包含在這裡頭？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：補件的部分也包括在這裡面。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以這41件聽起來就是有罷綠委、有罷藍委，還有罷綠的議員，然後包含一階連署，還有包含補件的部分都是這樣。我接著要幫大家請問現在全臺灣人民最關心的，接下來二階馬上就要送進來了，不管是4月底或是5月初，後續你們是不是也會依照行政中立的原則，針對我們認為有偽造連署、死亡連署、造假連署的部分依法告發？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：報告委員，因為在連署的部分一樣有偽造部分的審查，所以如果這一部分也有死亡連署的話，我們還是會依法告發。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝中選會，行政中立、依法告發，不管罷免的是哪一個黨派的委員或議員。","接下來我請問法務部，當中選會依法告發之後，你們是不是都要調查處理？"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察機關接到中選會的告發案件都會立案偵辦，這部分就是有聞必查、有據必辦，絕對秉持警察知有犯罪嫌疑就要啟動調查，這個沒有任何立場。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，一樣，謝謝你的回復，不要有任何的立場，該辦就辦，我認為這才是維護臺灣民主自由最重要的基礎。我想要講一個一般人可能比較聽得懂的例子，如果在全臺灣一萬個人當中，有一個人身上有一到兩張的偽鈔，我們可能會覺得那個是意外，或是他在買賣東西付現金的過程當中拿到這個偽鈔，一萬個人當中有一個人他身上一到兩張。可是如果我們在某一群一、兩百個人當中，一萬個人當中有一、兩百個人，他們身上同時都有好幾張偽鈔，那我們就要懷疑他有沒有可能是組織犯罪。我自己認為現在這些所有的不當連署，也就是我說的罷綠委這些不當的數字裡面，它們的合格率這麼低，然後它們的造假率這麼高，我認為就是我剛剛說的，身上持有偽鈔，疑似有可能是組織犯罪。所以我非常謝謝部長剛剛的回答，就是依法調查，在中選會依法告發之後，我覺得這件事情非常重要。","我剛剛講的是第一階段提議的時候送件。補件的部分，我們來看以蘇巧慧委員被提案罷免的例子來說，不合格率高達百分之四十五，提議前死亡31人，重複提議244人，未簽名或蓋章131人，居住期間太短197人，我覺得最可笑、最荒謬的是連補件都補不好，給你補考都補不好，照抄都抄不好，超過10%這個狀況，我想問一下法務部跟中選會，你們怎麼看補件還出現像這樣的狀況？好，你們行政中立，我就不讓你們回答，但是我要提醒你們，現在有人自己公開說「對，我就是抄名冊！」這個是罷免許智傑的領銜人朱磊，電視螢幕大家都看見了，他說「黨安排黨員抄黨員名冊，有錯嗎？」一個黨如果不容許黨員抄名單，那還叫黨嗎？他說「黨員不是普通民眾，他在黨的利益面前是沒有個資可言的」。我剛剛為什麼要回溯修法的過程？個資法這件事情國民黨視之為無物！國民黨的大老趙少康前中廣董事長，人家問他有沒有抄名單，他說「我認為會有啦！」因為有很多是國民黨員，他說還有死亡名單，他自己都說了，他還說「可是應該沒有嚴重到要把人關起來吧！」所以為什麼我剛剛要請教中選會到底是適用舊法還是新法？因為目前我認為有非常多國民黨的支持者在擔心，會不會他們的名單被拿去抄，然後他們就變成那個犯罪嫌疑人？我覺得這件事情是非常非常可怕的；也就是說，不管是朱磊或是趙少康，他們都不是所謂的綠營側翼，而他們都在螢幕上受訪的時候公開間接證實有抄名冊！","大家就很好奇啦！這個造假或是死亡提議，到底是誰糾舉出來的？可能很多人搞不清楚相關程序，感謝臺北市選委會主委李泰興，他說死亡連署是戶政事務所用電腦核對出來的，甚至還有查出連簽名的時候名字都簽錯，也就是如果陳培瑜今天要去簽一張罷免連署書，但是我可能最後簽名的時候簽的是別人的名字，為什麼會發生這個狀況？李泰興說，臺北市選委會一旦收到中選會交付第一階段，也就是提議階段的連署書名冊，會交給戶政事務所去查對，是不是有死亡？有沒有在籍？而這一次死亡連署就是臺北市戶政事務所查出來的，他們的這個說法，請問中選會是正確的嗎？臺北市選委會說是你們把資料交給臺北市選委會去核對資料，而臺北市選委會把資料交給戶政事務所去查核這個人有沒有死亡、這個人有沒有在籍，他的說法是對的嗎？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：程序上是這個樣子。"],["陳委員培瑜：程序上是對的。我們看到在國民黨送交的不實連署文件當中，甚至昨天新聞媒體還說，有連署人的名字跟他們的黨員名冊是一樣的，可是住址不對，仔細一看，把黨員名冊拿過來對照，發現資料那個地址剛好抄錯，也就是第一行跟第二行眼花抄錯了，連抄都抄不好，把解答拿給他，寫都寫不好！這是現在我們看到的狀況。所以我想要接著請問中選會，一階段罷免的查核確認，你剛剛說了是由地方縣市政府的選委會負責處理，而不是中選會，對不對？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：如果是按照你所說的這樣，目前在罷綠委、罷藍委的部分，不管縣市政府的執政縣市首長是藍營還是綠營，我認為他們應該都會保持行政中立確實查核，對嗎？這個部分中選會對於地方的選委會有沒有這樣的信心？"],["唐專門委員效鈞：報告，有！因為我們都是依法辦理選務，而且希望在辦理的過程當中，我們能夠維持選務中立這樣子的形象。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝你的呼籲，我也呼籲各地方的選委會，要在中選會的呼籲下保持行政中立。他們不是只有做這個事情，國民黨人接下來做妨礙司法公正的事情，我們來看一下，真的是讓我不知道怎麼教小孩，過去做親子教育做了20年。","我來問一下法務部，這些人──國民黨的朱立倫、蔣萬安、楊智伃、謝龍介等一干立法委員在禁制區集會有沒有違法？法務部。"],["鄭部長銘謙：集會遊行法第六條規定集會遊行不能在各級法院周邊舉行。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以是有違法的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：違法這部分，中正一分局報北檢指揮……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，中正一分局會報備？"],["鄭部長銘謙：已經報臺北地檢指揮偵辦，北檢已經分他案……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，分他案處理了。而且當天我看不懂的是警察技巧性的舉牌，這個我就不說了，但是我真的看不懂的是，臺北市長蔣萬安人在現場，他講了一句話，我讀了一個禮拜我還是讀不懂，他說，今晚我個人的行為，所有的責任，我個人自己承擔。就法務部的立場，照理說，他當天的行為應該要付出什麼樣的責任跟代價？而在法律的解讀上，所謂的個人跟市長的身分差別又是什麼？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我想……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，你答不出來，我幫你答啦！我認為今天如果一個公務員可以說他個人的行為個人承擔，他就開始從事違法行為，可以這樣嗎？我身為一個立法委員，我在立法院的問政過程當中有言論免責權，但是我不可以站到街口隨便一個地方，然後說我陳培瑜不代表立法委員，我代表我個人，我可以隨便的誹謗、侮辱任何人嗎？不行嘛！所以什麼叫做個人違法行為他自己承擔？我看不懂，結果你也看不懂！謝謝你剛剛神秘的微笑。","我認為在這一場違法集會當中，更荒謬的是有一些立法者，立法委員帶頭違法集會，到底我們這個國家的法治要怎麼執行下去？部長，很難，對不對？好，沒關係，你答不出來，我也答不出來，我真的很想知道為什麼。","接下來更可笑的事情出現了，國民黨的智庫副執行長──朱立倫的子弟兵凌濤在他的臉書上面說，檢警要在禮拜一下午，就是4月21號那一天……他先發了一個文，然後風傳媒幫他轉這個文，說禮拜一下午3點檢警要衝進國民黨中央黨部搜索，這個新聞第一時間是這樣。後來你們發了一個新聞稿說沒有這件事情，到了下午4點，凌濤就說你們改成送公文，所以是做賊心虛。說你們做賊心虛，你可不可以說一下？難道違法都不可以調查嗎？難道違法帶頭作亂的人都只能裝成自己是被政治迫害的人、被司法迫害的人嗎？可不可以請你們說明一下，到底當天這件事情是怎麼回事？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分就是在4月21日的確有這樣一個傳聞，但這部分北檢已經發新聞稿澄清這完全跟事實不符，我們絕對……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，他後來就說你們用一個公文，用寄信的方法寄資料過去叫他們出來說明，然後說你們做賊心虛，有這樣嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個不是由臺北地檢署處理的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是由警方中正一分局處理的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒關係，所以到底有沒有做賊心虛？這是政治迫害嗎？也不是嘛！根本就沒有這個事情！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們在新聞稿已經澄清，這個完全與事實不符。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，完全與事實不符。我們來看一下，我剛剛講了這麼多，我要說國民黨的立委先修法新增連署造假罰則，他們覺得他們是站在正義的一方，我就說，今天所有的問題，很多你沒有辦法回答，我自己也沒有辦法回答，國民黨的罷團就不敢用修正後的選罷法規定，所以他們在新法生效以前先趕快送進去，接下來繼續抄寫名冊，涉嫌造假連署，我剛剛也已經說了。接下來，地方政府的選委會在行政中立上抓出很多連署造假，才把相關資料交給檢調去告發，結果被告發的次數太多，那個數量太大，可能超乎他們的想像，他們就號召黨公職在北檢外面違法集會，然後等到違法集會被警告之後，相關的事情要被檢調處理之後，他們就說民進黨──執政黨政治追殺、司法迫害。我必須要說這一切事情真的讓我們覺得非常、非常難以想像，但我非常謝謝部長跟中選會，剛剛根據行政中立或違法告發的部分，你們都說出了非常明確的見解，我也希望後續不管是罷藍、罷綠的委員或議員，在所有事件當中，大家都要秉公處理、依法處理、依法行政中立，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們一定是恪守行政中立。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。中選會？因為接下來二階要送進來了。"],["唐專門委員效鈞：是，我們會跟提議的時候一樣，謹守行政中立。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝你們。主席我可以再一分鐘嗎？謝謝主席。"],["主席：已經超過8分鐘了。"],["陳委員培瑜：8分鐘，好，那沒關係，我就直接問。人民的恐懼，警察清晨登門查問有沒有連署罷免？政論主持人就問怎麼會這樣辦案？這邊我要跟部長說，甚至我的好朋友打電話給我說，他的媽媽是忠貞而且終身的國民黨黨員，他不知道他的名字被拿去抄，結果他真的也被警察上門問了，這是我的好朋友私訊給我的，我還要打電話跟他解釋，到底這整個流程是發生了什麼事情，請問可以這樣辦案嗎？這是正常的調查程序嗎？如果它不正常，請告訴我們什麼叫做正常調查程序，並且請你公開呼籲所有各地的檢調單位，針對這個造假、罷免連署，他們應該如何處理，謝謝。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個檢察官有簽發傳票，請司法警察送達，這合乎刑事訴訟法第六十一條規定，送達文書就是由司法警察或郵務機關送達，是屬於合法的行為。為什麼要在六點……"],["陳委員培瑜：早上六點。早上六點你起床了嗎？部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是看個人。不過我們是考慮到基隆的特殊性，因為基隆的民眾絕大部分都在外地工作，所以我們避免被傳喚的對象還要再跑一趟，我們就專人送達，來……"],["陳委員培瑜：它叫專人送達？你看連主席都搖頭了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有……送達本來就是由訴訟法第六十一條……"],["主席：真的聽不太下去。"],["鄭部長銘謙：司法警察機關……"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，我跟你講，我覺得你現在要公開告訴全臺灣人，因為不是只有這個基隆的案子，我剛剛已經跟你說了，我等一下會後可以把我朋友的私訊給你看，連我的好朋友不管他的政黨意識是什麼，他的母親是國民黨終身黨員而且是忠貞黨員，他都嚇得要死，現在不管他的名字為什麼被拿去抄，他早上六點收到這個騷擾真的會嚇死，而且我們先不要講上門的人態度怎麼樣，我現在拜託你公開呼籲，說清楚到底什麼叫做正常的調查程序。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是傳票的送達，這是六點半開始送達的，早上六點半已經是大家準備要上班的時間了。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，你真的確定喔？好，沒關係，我們會後再來討論。我認為到底什麼叫正常的調查程序，真的還是要說清楚，而且拜託用一般鄉親、公民聽得懂的語言，什麼叫六點半是正常的送達程序？有沒有其他更好的處理方法，在不擾民的情況下完成相關的檢調行為，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：傳喚的部分，我們當然可以再更講究。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們會後會再跟你們……"],["鄭部長銘謙：但是我們強調這是一個合乎訴訟法的傳喚程序。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們會後會再跟你們索取相關資料，也會再跟你們開會討論，我認為真的要說清楚，好嗎？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","部長，你說因為基隆人的生活習慣，所以需要早上六點去送，我覺得這句話蠻不妥。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是六點半以後。"],["主席：我覺得講「基隆人的生活習慣」這句話很不妥，謝謝部長。","好，剛剛議事錄因為已經宣讀完畢，尚未確定，我們現在先確定議事錄，請問各位就上次的會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏？（無）沒有，議事錄確定，謝謝。","這邊要跟委員會報告一件事情，剛剛的質詢也是一直提到很多目前偵查中的個案，我想委員會是不是要做統一的作法？因為禮拜一的時候，吳思瑤委員一直抗議說某些委員在台上談論偵查中的個案，我個人當然也是認為談論偵查中的個案不是那麼妥當，還是我們委員會能夠有一個統一的作法，不管哪一個黨我一定是統一的對待，我們委員會只要你在時間內談論偵查中個案，我一律不制止；還是時間內都不能談論偵查中的個案？因為大家已經抗議很多次，王委員也抗議過嘛，就是偵查中的個案不能談論。我沒有任何的主觀價值在裡面，也沒有偏袒任何政黨，我想說我們委員會可不可以做一個統一的說法，還是只要在時間內，我就先不管，然後委員有意見，委員再出來抗議？我都尊重，因為上次大家一直說偵查中的個案不能介入，但是剛剛的質詢裡面，有非常多目前偵查中的個案，所以我很尷尬，但是我剛剛沒有制止，我想還是尊重委員。我想本委員會還是要做一次討論，之後就統一這樣做，你們放心，我絕對不會因為面對不同的黨派，就用不同的標準，我不會這樣。還是會後大家再來討論？好，那我們就會後再來做一個統一的作法，因為偵查中的個案已經吵過很多次，謝謝。","我們下一位請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":80,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-10","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","王義川","林倩綺","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","羅智強","蔡易餘","傅崐萁"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、銓敘部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政\n院人事行政總處、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、內政部、中央選舉委員會、內政部警政署率所屬\n相關單位列席就「選舉罷免程序中，如何落實公務人員含政務官（人員）、司法人員、選務人員\n恪守行政中立，且秉持公正執法勿偏頗」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00001"}}}