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543.507, \"end\": 543.687, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 543.687, \"end\": 543.707, \"score\": 0.22}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,589 --> 00:00:10,157\n謝謝主席有請外交部陳明祺次長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:11,102 --> 00:00:28,048\n次長好次長我國的邦交國梵蒂岡的這位房契格教宗的日前離世那可以說是舉世哀痛我們的賴清德總統也在第一時間代表國人表示哀悼那據我們所知就是說在當地時間4月26號早上10點我們這位房契格教宗即將要舉辦這個喪禮\n\n3\n00:00:35,430 --> 00:00:39,841\n那國人都很關心到底初期的這個政府高層會是哪一位?請問次長這個有確定了嗎?\n\n4\n00:00:42,018 --> 00:01:10,825\n我們現在沒有排除任何的可能性會盡所有的努力那麼我想這個人選是由總統來決定那當然也要跟教廷溝通那現在目前來說那麼總統是在決定這個我們代表我國出席的這個人員那麼任何的這個可能性都都是在那裡那麼我們會外交部的努力是說那麼總統決定的人選我們跟對方溝通那現在因為這個教廷要處理相關的事情很多\n\n5\n00:01:12,066 --> 00:01:21,740\n所以我們密集的在跟對方來溝通希望能夠順利的能夠派出我方的代表去叫停至上我們最誠摯的哀悼之一\n\n6\n00:01:24,657 --> 00:01:41,172\n所以市長的意思是說到目前為止還在人選還在討論當中到底誰要去都還沒確定我想總統府應該會做宣布會做宣布OK那就是要等到總統府宣布那大概呢4月26號馬上就到了很快了我想很快時間很快那就是跟委員報告這還牽涉到雙方要這個協調溝通的一個狀況\n\n7\n00:01:50,842 --> 00:01:59,591\n那次長請回那再來呢我要邀請的是國安局黃明洲副局長委員好\n\n8\n00:02:10,029 --> 00:02:11,890\n副局長對於這個網路社群的這個軟體有所謂的關鍵字審查觸及率的這個監控的傳聞其實是已經很久了那在這個月的這個9號呢臉書前政策總監威廉斯女士呢他有出席的這個美國參議院的這個聽證會\n\n9\n00:02:29,279 --> 00:02:56,659\n他有指出臉書的母公司Meta的執行長祖克伯威倫要進軍這個中國廣大的這個市場跟這個中國共產黨的合作那甚至親自設計了臉書的這個審查工具把台灣香港及美國用戶的資料洩露給中國的中國政府國安局有沒有相關的情質這威廉斯女士所說是否屬實這部分\n\n10\n00:02:58,678 --> 00:03:12,726\n這是媒體的報導我想媒體的報導我們是值得去關注如果是有這種情形當然我們非常要呼籲我們國人尤其針對中共透過資訊數據取得的方式來進行相關的應用以及涉及到治安的問題要特別重視\n\n11\n00:03:24,978 --> 00:03:49,080\n是因為這個傳聞其實很久了就是說你打了幾個關鍵字的話可能你的處局率就會變降低或什麼他會審查你的內容我是要請問一國安局畢竟你們只是在收集一些請字那傳聞這麼久的這個消息到底我們有沒有去經過相關的這個管道去做查證到底威廉斯女士所說是不是真的\n\n12\n00:03:49,620 --> 00:04:06,905\n也依照我們的情資到底有沒有相關的情資是不是因為美國一直認為說這是國安問題這就是國安問題因為Meta旗下除了臉書之外呢還有這個IGTrade還有WhatsApp等等而且這些用戶都非常的多像臉書的話台灣曾經高達1900萬人IG呢也有將近1100萬人Trade目前也一直在成長當中那裡頭都有用戶的這個\n\n13\n00:04:15,848 --> 00:04:41,721\n各自不管是你的電話你的信箱那甚至臉書還有定位追蹤的這個功能喔那如果屬實的話那不是我們這些各自全部都全都露了嗎所以那美國認為是國安問題那我們當然也認為是啊那如果是屬實的話我們如何去做預防如何去做應付那我想了解就是國安局到底有沒有這方面的情資對這部分有嗎\n\n14\n00:04:42,581 --> 00:05:09,788\n目前我們的查證結果是沒有跡證顯示META針對特定國家或地區有進行這樣的內容特別審查不過這個訊息既然已經披露出來尤其在國會作證的時候披露出來那本局會邀請相關行政部門來做一個研討將掌握美國國會調查META的情形來做一個研討相關的一個因應做法\n\n15\n00:05:10,365 --> 00:05:34,465\n所以國安局目前沒有任何的情資就對了目前我們沒有收集到這個顯示有這個情形對幾個特定地區或國家有這種情形的特別審查當然這個威廉斯女士的這個說法出來說其實國人當然是非常的恐慌那到底這個部分\n\n16\n00:05:35,606 --> 00:06:03,977\n所以你現在要全民來挺一用幾乎是不太可能就是說要如何預防如何去防範或是說我們有關的國安單位要積極去了解這個部分那還有除了這個社群媒體這個軟體危機重重那國安的滲透其實也是越來越嚴重那國民是否真正的了解說滲透的這個樣態有哪一些我們是要如何去向國人有效的去做宣導\n\n17\n00:06:05,558 --> 00:06:09,323\n副局長您曾經當過警政署的署長那其實像我們最近詐騙的樣態也非常的多我有發現警政署其實會透過不同的管道讓國人去了解說目前詐騙的樣態有哪一些\n\n18\n00:06:22,820 --> 00:06:27,944\n我覺得像我們國安滲透這麼嚴重是不是也應該像警政署這樣子我們其實要讓國人積極了解說目前滲透的樣他有哪一些如果違反了國安法的話他有哪一些罰則哪一些罰款而不是說只有在這個立法院我們在準備這個報告的時候在這裡報告一下可是好像到目前為止我們還沒有看到國安單位有很積極的向國人\n\n19\n00:06:51,022 --> 00:07:03,994\n就是用這個圖的方式也好或各種管道來向國人來宣導我們要怎麼樣來讓國人知道說目前的這個滲透情況的嚴重性跟你觸法之後你會面對哪些法則是副局長\n\n20\n00:07:07,257 --> 00:07:35,562\n除了我剛剛的一個專案報告裡面特別提到了中共的一個這個滲透的一個樣態手法有那種類型我們歸類出來的那在教育宣導這一塊那其實法務部跟調查局跟國安局每年都有分地區的全國性的一個保防安全的一個會議的這個宣導包括滲透的一個方式以及包括它的一個所涉及的法律的責任的一個召集會議來對外做一個宣導\n\n21\n00:07:35,742 --> 00:08:03,617\n我們只有召集會議內部召集會議我說如何讓民眾了解我剛剛有為什麼會提了警政署警政署你看我們都會告知民眾就說你這個投資網賬網賬不賠這個很可能就是一個詐騙你可能會掉入這個陷阱裡面那再來還有免費出國輕鬆工作包子包住這個可能就是人口販運像類似這樣子的宣導方式國安單位好像做得還不是很足\n\n22\n00:08:05,202 --> 00:08:24,190\n你覺得這個網站裡面也有專線在政府公開資訊網裡面都有但是誠如剛剛委員所提醒的確實在擴大領域的一個宣導部分還是要再強化對啦因為現在真的是滲透的很嚴重不管是總統府啦就是政府機關我甚至\n\n23\n00:08:24,890 --> 00:08:46,289\n民間可能都可能有那甚至我們現在對我們所使用的這個社群軟體我們都有很大的這個疑慮像這個一定要一再的提醒我們的民眾台灣現在目前面臨的是什麼問題不是只有詐騙而已這國安的問題也是非常的嚴重也希望就是說能夠像警政署這樣子多花一點這個時間也最貼近貼近\n\n24\n00:08:51,754 --> 00:09:03,707\n基層的這個聲音比如說你可能用畫圖的方式用比較能夠理解的方式讓民眾更加了解說目前國安滲透的這個問題以上OK好謝謝好謝謝委員指導謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n589\t10157\t謝謝主席 有請外交部陳明祺次長委員好\n11102\t28048\t次長好 次長我國的邦交國梵蒂岡的這位房契格教宗的日前離世那可以說是舉世哀痛我們的賴清德總統也在第一時間代表國人表示哀悼那據我們所知就是說在當地時間4月26號早上10點我們這位房契格教宗即將要舉辦這個喪禮\n35430\t39841\t那國人都很關心到底初期的這個政府高層會是哪一位?請問次長這個有確定了嗎?\n42018\t70825\t我們現在沒有排除任何的可能性會盡所有的努力那麼我想這個人選是由總統來決定那當然也要跟教廷溝通那現在目前來說那麼總統是在決定這個我們代表我國出席的這個人員那麼任何的這個可能性都都是在那裡那麼我們會外交部的努力是說那麼總統決定的人選我們跟對方溝通那現在因為這個教廷要處理相關的事情很多\n72066\t81740\t所以我們密集的在跟對方來溝通希望能夠順利的能夠派出我方的代表去叫停至上我們最誠摯的哀悼之一\n84657\t101172\t所以市長的意思是說到目前為止還在人選還在討論當中到底誰要去都還沒確定我想總統府應該會做宣布會做宣布OK那就是要等到總統府宣布那大概呢4月26號馬上就到了很快了我想很快時間很快那就是跟委員報告這還牽涉到雙方要這個協調溝通的一個狀況\n110842\t119591\t那次長請回那再來呢我要邀請的是國安局黃明洲副局長委員好\n130029\t131890\t副局長對於這個網路社群的這個軟體有所謂的關鍵字審查觸及率的這個監控的傳聞其實是已經很久了那在這個月的這個9號呢臉書前政策總監威廉斯女士呢他有出席的這個美國參議院的這個聽證會\n149279\t176659\t他有指出臉書的母公司Meta的執行長祖克伯威倫要進軍這個中國廣大的這個市場跟這個中國共產黨的合作那甚至親自設計了臉書的這個審查工具把台灣香港及美國用戶的資料洩露給中國的中國政府國安局有沒有相關的情質這威廉斯女士所說是否屬實這部分\n178678\t192726\t這是媒體的報導我想媒體的報導我們是值得去關注如果是有這種情形當然我們非常要呼籲我們國人尤其針對中共透過資訊數據取得的方式來進行相關的應用以及涉及到治安的問題要特別重視\n204978\t229080\t是 因為這個傳聞其實很久了就是說你打了幾個關鍵字的話可能你的處局率就會變降低或什麼他會審查你的內容我是要請問一國安局畢竟你們只是在收集一些請字那傳聞這麼久的這個消息到底我們有沒有去經過相關的這個管道去做查證到底威廉斯女士所說是不是真的\n229620\t246905\t也依照我們的情資到底有沒有相關的情資是不是因為美國一直認為說這是國安問題這就是國安問題因為Meta旗下除了臉書之外呢還有這個IG Trade還有WhatsApp等等而且這些用戶都非常的多像臉書的話台灣曾經高達1900萬人IG呢也有將近1100萬人Trade目前也一直在成長當中那裡頭都有用戶的這個\n255848\t281721\t各自不管是你的電話你的信箱那甚至臉書還有定位追蹤的這個功能喔那如果屬實的話那不是我們這些各自全部都全都露了嗎所以那美國認為是國安問題那我們當然也認為是啊那如果是屬實的話我們如何去做預防如何去做應付那我想了解就是國安局到底有沒有這方面的情資對這部分有嗎\n282581\t309788\t目前我們的查證結果是沒有跡證顯示META針對特定國家或地區有進行這樣的內容特別審查不過這個訊息既然已經披露出來尤其在國會作證的時候披露出來那本局會邀請相關行政部門來做一個研討將掌握美國國會調查META的情形來做一個研討相關的一個因應做法\n310365\t334465\t所以國安局目前沒有任何的情資就對了目前我們沒有收集到這個顯示有這個情形對幾個特定地區或國家有這種情形的特別審查當然這個威廉斯女士的這個說法出來說其實國人當然是非常的恐慌那到底這個部分\n335606\t363977\t所以你現在要全民來挺一用幾乎是不太可能就是說要如何預防如何去防範或是說我們有關的國安單位要積極去了解這個部分那還有除了這個社群媒體這個軟體危機重重那國安的滲透其實也是越來越嚴重那國民是否真正的了解說滲透的這個樣態有哪一些我們是要如何去向國人有效的去做宣導\n365558\t369323\t副局長您曾經當過警政署的署長那其實像我們最近詐騙的樣態也非常的多我有發現警政署其實會透過不同的管道讓國人去了解說目前詐騙的樣態有哪一些\n382820\t387944\t我覺得像我們國安滲透這麼嚴重是不是也應該像警政署這樣子我們其實要讓國人積極了解說目前滲透的樣他有哪一些如果違反了國安法的話他有哪一些罰則哪一些罰款而不是說只有在這個立法院我們在準備這個報告的時候在這裡報告一下可是好像到目前為止我們還沒有看到國安單位有很積極的向國人\n411022\t423994\t就是用這個圖的方式也好或各種管道來向國人來宣導我們要怎麼樣來讓國人知道說目前的這個滲透情況的嚴重性跟你觸法之後你會面對哪些法則是副局長\n427257\t455562\t除了我剛剛的一個專案報告裡面特別提到了中共的一個這個滲透的一個樣態手法有那種類型我們歸類出來的那在教育宣導這一塊那其實法務部跟調查局跟國安局每年都有分地區的全國性的一個保防安全的一個會議的這個宣導包括滲透的一個方式以及包括它的一個所涉及的法律的責任的一個召集會議來對外做一個宣導\n455742\t483617\t我們只有召集會議內部召集會議我說如何讓民眾了解我剛剛有為什麼會提了警政署警政署你看我們都會告知民眾就說你這個投資網賬網賬不賠這個很可能就是一個詐騙你可能會掉入這個陷阱裡面那再來還有免費出國輕鬆工作包子包住這個可能就是人口販運像類似這樣子的宣導方式國安單位好像做得還不是很足\n485202\t504190\t你覺得這個網站裡面也有專線在政府公開資訊網裡面都有但是誠如剛剛委員所提醒的確實在擴大領域的一個宣導部分還是要再強化對啦因為現在真的是滲透的很嚴重不管是總統府啦就是政府機關我甚至\n504890\t526289\t民間可能都可能有那甚至我們現在對我們所使用的這個社群軟體我們都有很大的這個疑慮像這個一定要一再的提醒我們的民眾台灣現在目前面臨的是什麼問題不是只有詐騙而已這國安的問題也是非常的嚴重也希望就是說能夠像警政署這樣子多花一點這個時間也最貼近貼近\n531754\t543707\t基層的這個聲音比如說你可能用畫圖的方式用比較能夠理解的方式讓民眾更加了解說目前國安滲透的這個問題以上OK好謝謝好謝謝委員指導謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請外交部陳明祺次長委員好\n次長好 次長我國的邦交國梵蒂岡的這位房契格教宗的日前離世那可以說是舉世哀痛我們的賴清德總統也在第一時間代表國人表示哀悼那據我們所知就是說在當地時間4月26號早上10點我們這位房契格教宗即將要舉辦這個喪禮\n那國人都很關心到底初期的這個政府高層會是哪一位?請問次長這個有確定了嗎?\n我們現在沒有排除任何的可能性會盡所有的努力那麼我想這個人選是由總統來決定那當然也要跟教廷溝通那現在目前來說那麼總統是在決定這個我們代表我國出席的這個人員那麼任何的這個可能性都都是在那裡那麼我們會外交部的努力是說那麼總統決定的人選我們跟對方溝通那現在因為這個教廷要處理相關的事情很多\n所以我們密集的在跟對方來溝通希望能夠順利的能夠派出我方的代表去叫停至上我們最誠摯的哀悼之一\n所以市長的意思是說到目前為止還在人選還在討論當中到底誰要去都還沒確定我想總統府應該會做宣布會做宣布OK那就是要等到總統府宣布那大概呢4月26號馬上就到了很快了我想很快時間很快那就是跟委員報告這還牽涉到雙方要這個協調溝通的一個狀況\n那次長請回那再來呢我要邀請的是國安局黃明洲副局長委員好\n副局長對於這個網路社群的這個軟體有所謂的關鍵字審查觸及率的這個監控的傳聞其實是已經很久了那在這個月的這個9號呢臉書前政策總監威廉斯女士呢他有出席的這個美國參議院的這個聽證會\n他有指出臉書的母公司Meta的執行長祖克伯威倫要進軍這個中國廣大的這個市場跟這個中國共產黨的合作那甚至親自設計了臉書的這個審查工具把台灣香港及美國用戶的資料洩露給中國的中國政府國安局有沒有相關的情質這威廉斯女士所說是否屬實這部分\n這是媒體的報導我想媒體的報導我們是值得去關注如果是有這種情形當然我們非常要呼籲我們國人尤其針對中共透過資訊數據取得的方式來進行相關的應用以及涉及到治安的問題要特別重視\n是 因為這個傳聞其實很久了就是說你打了幾個關鍵字的話可能你的處局率就會變降低或什麼他會審查你的內容我是要請問一國安局畢竟你們只是在收集一些請字那傳聞這麼久的這個消息到底我們有沒有去經過相關的這個管道去做查證到底威廉斯女士所說是不是真的\n也依照我們的情資到底有沒有相關的情資是不是因為美國一直認為說這是國安問題這就是國安問題因為Meta旗下除了臉書之外呢還有這個IG Trade還有WhatsApp等等而且這些用戶都非常的多像臉書的話台灣曾經高達1900萬人IG呢也有將近1100萬人Trade目前也一直在成長當中那裡頭都有用戶的這個\n各自不管是你的電話你的信箱那甚至臉書還有定位追蹤的這個功能喔那如果屬實的話那不是我們這些各自全部都全都露了嗎所以那美國認為是國安問題那我們當然也認為是啊那如果是屬實的話我們如何去做預防如何去做應付那我想了解就是國安局到底有沒有這方面的情資對這部分有嗎\n目前我們的查證結果是沒有跡證顯示META針對特定國家或地區有進行這樣的內容特別審查不過這個訊息既然已經披露出來尤其在國會作證的時候披露出來那本局會邀請相關行政部門來做一個研討將掌握美國國會調查META的情形來做一個研討相關的一個因應做法\n所以國安局目前沒有任何的情資就對了目前我們沒有收集到這個顯示有這個情形對幾個特定地區或國家有這種情形的特別審查當然這個威廉斯女士的這個說法出來說其實國人當然是非常的恐慌那到底這個部分\n所以你現在要全民來挺一用幾乎是不太可能就是說要如何預防如何去防範或是說我們有關的國安單位要積極去了解這個部分那還有除了這個社群媒體這個軟體危機重重那國安的滲透其實也是越來越嚴重那國民是否真正的了解說滲透的這個樣態有哪一些我們是要如何去向國人有效的去做宣導\n副局長您曾經當過警政署的署長那其實像我們最近詐騙的樣態也非常的多我有發現警政署其實會透過不同的管道讓國人去了解說目前詐騙的樣態有哪一些\n我覺得像我們國安滲透這麼嚴重是不是也應該像警政署這樣子我們其實要讓國人積極了解說目前滲透的樣他有哪一些如果違反了國安法的話他有哪一些罰則哪一些罰款而不是說只有在這個立法院我們在準備這個報告的時候在這裡報告一下可是好像到目前為止我們還沒有看到國安單位有很積極的向國人\n就是用這個圖的方式也好或各種管道來向國人來宣導我們要怎麼樣來讓國人知道說目前的這個滲透情況的嚴重性跟你觸法之後你會面對哪些法則是副局長\n除了我剛剛的一個專案報告裡面特別提到了中共的一個這個滲透的一個樣態手法有那種類型我們歸類出來的那在教育宣導這一塊那其實法務部跟調查局跟國安局每年都有分地區的全國性的一個保防安全的一個會議的這個宣導包括滲透的一個方式以及包括它的一個所涉及的法律的責任的一個召集會議來對外做一個宣導\n我們只有召集會議內部召集會議我說如何讓民眾了解我剛剛有為什麼會提了警政署警政署你看我們都會告知民眾就說你這個投資網賬網賬不賠這個很可能就是一個詐騙你可能會掉入這個陷阱裡面那再來還有免費出國輕鬆工作包子包住這個可能就是人口販運像類似這樣子的宣導方式國安單位好像做得還不是很足\n你覺得這個網站裡面也有專線在政府公開資訊網裡面都有但是誠如剛剛委員所提醒的確實在擴大領域的一個宣導部分還是要再強化對啦因為現在真的是滲透的很嚴重不管是總統府啦就是政府機關我甚至\n民間可能都可能有那甚至我們現在對我們所使用的這個社群軟體我們都有很大的這個疑慮像這個一定要一再的提醒我們的民眾台灣現在目前面臨的是什麼問題不是只有詐騙而已這國安的問題也是非常的嚴重也希望就是說能夠像警政署這樣子多花一點這個時間也最貼近貼近\n基層的這個聲音比如說你可能用畫圖的方式用比較能夠理解的方式讓民眾更加了解說目前國安滲透的這個問題以上OK好謝謝好謝謝委員指導謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.589 --> 00:10.157\n謝謝主席有請外交部陳明祺次長委員好\n\n00:11.102 --> 00:28.048\n次長好次長我國的邦交國梵蒂岡的這位房契格教宗的日前離世那可以說是舉世哀痛我們的賴清德總統也在第一時間代表國人表示哀悼那據我們所知就是說在當地時間4月26號早上10點我們這位房契格教宗即將要舉辦這個喪禮\n\n00:35.430 --> 00:39.841\n那國人都很關心到底初期的這個政府高層會是哪一位?請問次長這個有確定了嗎?\n\n00:42.018 --> 01:10.825\n我們現在沒有排除任何的可能性會盡所有的努力那麼我想這個人選是由總統來決定那當然也要跟教廷溝通那現在目前來說那麼總統是在決定這個我們代表我國出席的這個人員那麼任何的這個可能性都都是在那裡那麼我們會外交部的努力是說那麼總統決定的人選我們跟對方溝通那現在因為這個教廷要處理相關的事情很多\n\n01:12.066 --> 01:21.740\n所以我們密集的在跟對方來溝通希望能夠順利的能夠派出我方的代表去叫停至上我們最誠摯的哀悼之一\n\n01:24.657 --> 01:41.172\n所以市長的意思是說到目前為止還在人選還在討論當中到底誰要去都還沒確定我想總統府應該會做宣布會做宣布OK那就是要等到總統府宣布那大概呢4月26號馬上就到了很快了我想很快時間很快那就是跟委員報告這還牽涉到雙方要這個協調溝通的一個狀況\n\n01:50.842 --> 01:59.591\n那次長請回那再來呢我要邀請的是國安局黃明洲副局長委員好\n\n02:10.029 --> 02:11.890\n副局長對於這個網路社群的這個軟體有所謂的關鍵字審查觸及率的這個監控的傳聞其實是已經很久了那在這個月的這個9號呢臉書前政策總監威廉斯女士呢他有出席的這個美國參議院的這個聽證會\n\n02:29.279 --> 02:56.659\n他有指出臉書的母公司Meta的執行長祖克伯威倫要進軍這個中國廣大的這個市場跟這個中國共產黨的合作那甚至親自設計了臉書的這個審查工具把台灣香港及美國用戶的資料洩露給中國的中國政府國安局有沒有相關的情質這威廉斯女士所說是否屬實這部分\n\n02:58.678 --> 03:12.726\n這是媒體的報導我想媒體的報導我們是值得去關注如果是有這種情形當然我們非常要呼籲我們國人尤其針對中共透過資訊數據取得的方式來進行相關的應用以及涉及到治安的問題要特別重視\n\n03:24.978 --> 03:49.080\n是因為這個傳聞其實很久了就是說你打了幾個關鍵字的話可能你的處局率就會變降低或什麼他會審查你的內容我是要請問一國安局畢竟你們只是在收集一些請字那傳聞這麼久的這個消息到底我們有沒有去經過相關的這個管道去做查證到底威廉斯女士所說是不是真的\n\n03:49.620 --> 04:06.905\n也依照我們的情資到底有沒有相關的情資是不是因為美國一直認為說這是國安問題這就是國安問題因為Meta旗下除了臉書之外呢還有這個IGTrade還有WhatsApp等等而且這些用戶都非常的多像臉書的話台灣曾經高達1900萬人IG呢也有將近1100萬人Trade目前也一直在成長當中那裡頭都有用戶的這個\n\n04:15.848 --> 04:41.721\n各自不管是你的電話你的信箱那甚至臉書還有定位追蹤的這個功能喔那如果屬實的話那不是我們這些各自全部都全都露了嗎所以那美國認為是國安問題那我們當然也認為是啊那如果是屬實的話我們如何去做預防如何去做應付那我想了解就是國安局到底有沒有這方面的情資對這部分有嗎\n\n04:42.581 --> 05:09.788\n目前我們的查證結果是沒有跡證顯示META針對特定國家或地區有進行這樣的內容特別審查不過這個訊息既然已經披露出來尤其在國會作證的時候披露出來那本局會邀請相關行政部門來做一個研討將掌握美國國會調查META的情形來做一個研討相關的一個因應做法\n\n05:10.365 --> 05:34.465\n所以國安局目前沒有任何的情資就對了目前我們沒有收集到這個顯示有這個情形對幾個特定地區或國家有這種情形的特別審查當然這個威廉斯女士的這個說法出來說其實國人當然是非常的恐慌那到底這個部分\n\n05:35.606 --> 06:03.977\n所以你現在要全民來挺一用幾乎是不太可能就是說要如何預防如何去防範或是說我們有關的國安單位要積極去了解這個部分那還有除了這個社群媒體這個軟體危機重重那國安的滲透其實也是越來越嚴重那國民是否真正的了解說滲透的這個樣態有哪一些我們是要如何去向國人有效的去做宣導\n\n06:05.558 --> 06:09.323\n副局長您曾經當過警政署的署長那其實像我們最近詐騙的樣態也非常的多我有發現警政署其實會透過不同的管道讓國人去了解說目前詐騙的樣態有哪一些\n\n06:22.820 --> 06:27.944\n我覺得像我們國安滲透這麼嚴重是不是也應該像警政署這樣子我們其實要讓國人積極了解說目前滲透的樣他有哪一些如果違反了國安法的話他有哪一些罰則哪一些罰款而不是說只有在這個立法院我們在準備這個報告的時候在這裡報告一下可是好像到目前為止我們還沒有看到國安單位有很積極的向國人\n\n06:51.022 --> 07:03.994\n就是用這個圖的方式也好或各種管道來向國人來宣導我們要怎麼樣來讓國人知道說目前的這個滲透情況的嚴重性跟你觸法之後你會面對哪些法則是副局長\n\n07:07.257 --> 07:35.562\n除了我剛剛的一個專案報告裡面特別提到了中共的一個這個滲透的一個樣態手法有那種類型我們歸類出來的那在教育宣導這一塊那其實法務部跟調查局跟國安局每年都有分地區的全國性的一個保防安全的一個會議的這個宣導包括滲透的一個方式以及包括它的一個所涉及的法律的責任的一個召集會議來對外做一個宣導\n\n07:35.742 --> 08:03.617\n我們只有召集會議內部召集會議我說如何讓民眾了解我剛剛有為什麼會提了警政署警政署你看我們都會告知民眾就說你這個投資網賬網賬不賠這個很可能就是一個詐騙你可能會掉入這個陷阱裡面那再來還有免費出國輕鬆工作包子包住這個可能就是人口販運像類似這樣子的宣導方式國安單位好像做得還不是很足\n\n08:05.202 --> 08:24.190\n你覺得這個網站裡面也有專線在政府公開資訊網裡面都有但是誠如剛剛委員所提醒的確實在擴大領域的一個宣導部分還是要再強化對啦因為現在真的是滲透的很嚴重不管是總統府啦就是政府機關我甚至\n\n08:24.890 --> 08:46.289\n民間可能都可能有那甚至我們現在對我們所使用的這個社群軟體我們都有很大的這個疑慮像這個一定要一再的提醒我們的民眾台灣現在目前面臨的是什麼問題不是只有詐騙而已這國安的問題也是非常的嚴重也希望就是說能夠像警政署這樣子多花一點這個時間也最貼近貼近\n\n08:51.754 --> 09:03.707\n基層的這個聲音比如說你可能用畫圖的方式用比較能夠理解的方式讓民眾更加了解說目前國安滲透的這個問題以上OK好謝謝好謝謝委員指導謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.589,"end":10.157,"text":"謝謝主席 有請外交部陳明祺次長委員好"},{"start":11.102,"end":28.048,"text":"次長好 次長我國的邦交國梵蒂岡的這位房契格教宗的日前離世那可以說是舉世哀痛我們的賴清德總統也在第一時間代表國人表示哀悼那據我們所知就是說在當地時間4月26號早上10點我們這位房契格教宗即將要舉辦這個喪禮"},{"start":35.43,"end":39.841,"text":"那國人都很關心到底初期的這個政府高層會是哪一位?請問次長這個有確定了嗎?"},{"start":42.018,"end":70.825,"text":"我們現在沒有排除任何的可能性會盡所有的努力那麼我想這個人選是由總統來決定那當然也要跟教廷溝通那現在目前來說那麼總統是在決定這個我們代表我國出席的這個人員那麼任何的這個可能性都都是在那裡那麼我們會外交部的努力是說那麼總統決定的人選我們跟對方溝通那現在因為這個教廷要處理相關的事情很多"},{"start":72.066,"end":81.74,"text":"所以我們密集的在跟對方來溝通希望能夠順利的能夠派出我方的代表去叫停至上我們最誠摯的哀悼之一"},{"start":84.657,"end":101.172,"text":"所以市長的意思是說到目前為止還在人選還在討論當中到底誰要去都還沒確定我想總統府應該會做宣布會做宣布OK那就是要等到總統府宣布那大概呢4月26號馬上就到了很快了我想很快時間很快那就是跟委員報告這還牽涉到雙方要這個協調溝通的一個狀況"},{"start":110.842,"end":119.591,"text":"那次長請回那再來呢我要邀請的是國安局黃明洲副局長委員好"},{"start":130.029,"end":131.89,"text":"副局長對於這個網路社群的這個軟體有所謂的關鍵字審查觸及率的這個監控的傳聞其實是已經很久了那在這個月的這個9號呢臉書前政策總監威廉斯女士呢他有出席的這個美國參議院的這個聽證會"},{"start":149.279,"end":176.659,"text":"他有指出臉書的母公司Meta的執行長祖克伯威倫要進軍這個中國廣大的這個市場跟這個中國共產黨的合作那甚至親自設計了臉書的這個審查工具把台灣香港及美國用戶的資料洩露給中國的中國政府國安局有沒有相關的情質這威廉斯女士所說是否屬實這部分"},{"start":178.678,"end":192.726,"text":"這是媒體的報導我想媒體的報導我們是值得去關注如果是有這種情形當然我們非常要呼籲我們國人尤其針對中共透過資訊數據取得的方式來進行相關的應用以及涉及到治安的問題要特別重視"},{"start":204.978,"end":229.08,"text":"是 因為這個傳聞其實很久了就是說你打了幾個關鍵字的話可能你的處局率就會變降低或什麼他會審查你的內容我是要請問一國安局畢竟你們只是在收集一些請字那傳聞這麼久的這個消息到底我們有沒有去經過相關的這個管道去做查證到底威廉斯女士所說是不是真的"},{"start":229.62,"end":246.905,"text":"也依照我們的情資到底有沒有相關的情資是不是因為美國一直認為說這是國安問題這就是國安問題因為Meta旗下除了臉書之外呢還有這個IG Trade還有WhatsApp等等而且這些用戶都非常的多像臉書的話台灣曾經高達1900萬人IG呢也有將近1100萬人Trade目前也一直在成長當中那裡頭都有用戶的這個"},{"start":255.848,"end":281.721,"text":"各自不管是你的電話你的信箱那甚至臉書還有定位追蹤的這個功能喔那如果屬實的話那不是我們這些各自全部都全都露了嗎所以那美國認為是國安問題那我們當然也認為是啊那如果是屬實的話我們如何去做預防如何去做應付那我想了解就是國安局到底有沒有這方面的情資對這部分有嗎"},{"start":282.581,"end":309.788,"text":"目前我們的查證結果是沒有跡證顯示META針對特定國家或地區有進行這樣的內容特別審查不過這個訊息既然已經披露出來尤其在國會作證的時候披露出來那本局會邀請相關行政部門來做一個研討將掌握美國國會調查META的情形來做一個研討相關的一個因應做法"},{"start":310.365,"end":334.465,"text":"所以國安局目前沒有任何的情資就對了目前我們沒有收集到這個顯示有這個情形對幾個特定地區或國家有這種情形的特別審查當然這個威廉斯女士的這個說法出來說其實國人當然是非常的恐慌那到底這個部分"},{"start":335.606,"end":363.977,"text":"所以你現在要全民來挺一用幾乎是不太可能就是說要如何預防如何去防範或是說我們有關的國安單位要積極去了解這個部分那還有除了這個社群媒體這個軟體危機重重那國安的滲透其實也是越來越嚴重那國民是否真正的了解說滲透的這個樣態有哪一些我們是要如何去向國人有效的去做宣導"},{"start":365.558,"end":369.323,"text":"副局長您曾經當過警政署的署長那其實像我們最近詐騙的樣態也非常的多我有發現警政署其實會透過不同的管道讓國人去了解說目前詐騙的樣態有哪一些"},{"start":382.82,"end":387.944,"text":"我覺得像我們國安滲透這麼嚴重是不是也應該像警政署這樣子我們其實要讓國人積極了解說目前滲透的樣他有哪一些如果違反了國安法的話他有哪一些罰則哪一些罰款而不是說只有在這個立法院我們在準備這個報告的時候在這裡報告一下可是好像到目前為止我們還沒有看到國安單位有很積極的向國人"},{"start":411.022,"end":423.994,"text":"就是用這個圖的方式也好或各種管道來向國人來宣導我們要怎麼樣來讓國人知道說目前的這個滲透情況的嚴重性跟你觸法之後你會面對哪些法則是副局長"},{"start":427.257,"end":455.562,"text":"除了我剛剛的一個專案報告裡面特別提到了中共的一個這個滲透的一個樣態手法有那種類型我們歸類出來的那在教育宣導這一塊那其實法務部跟調查局跟國安局每年都有分地區的全國性的一個保防安全的一個會議的這個宣導包括滲透的一個方式以及包括它的一個所涉及的法律的責任的一個召集會議來對外做一個宣導"},{"start":455.742,"end":483.617,"text":"我們只有召集會議內部召集會議我說如何讓民眾了解我剛剛有為什麼會提了警政署警政署你看我們都會告知民眾就說你這個投資網賬網賬不賠這個很可能就是一個詐騙你可能會掉入這個陷阱裡面那再來還有免費出國輕鬆工作包子包住這個可能就是人口販運像類似這樣子的宣導方式國安單位好像做得還不是很足"},{"start":485.202,"end":504.19,"text":"你覺得這個網站裡面也有專線在政府公開資訊網裡面都有但是誠如剛剛委員所提醒的確實在擴大領域的一個宣導部分還是要再強化對啦因為現在真的是滲透的很嚴重不管是總統府啦就是政府機關我甚至"},{"start":504.89,"end":526.289,"text":"民間可能都可能有那甚至我們現在對我們所使用的這個社群軟體我們都有很大的這個疑慮像這個一定要一再的提醒我們的民眾台灣現在目前面臨的是什麼問題不是只有詐騙而已這國安的問題也是非常的嚴重也希望就是說能夠像警政署這樣子多花一點這個時間也最貼近貼近"},{"start":531.754,"end":543.707,"text":"基層的這個聲音比如說你可能用畫圖的方式用比較能夠理解的方式讓民眾更加了解說目前國安滲透的這個問題以上OK好謝謝好謝謝委員指導謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":105,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時29分）謝謝主席。有請外交部陳明祺次長。"],["陳次長明祺：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：次長好。次長，我國的邦交國梵蒂岡方濟各教宗日前離世，可以說是舉世哀痛，我們的賴清德總統也在第一時間代表國人表示哀悼，據我們所知，在當地時間4月26日早上10點，方濟各教宗即將要舉辦喪禮，國人都很關心到底出席的政府高層會是哪一位，請問次長，這有確定了嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：我們現在沒有排除任何的可能性，會盡所有的努力，我想人選是由總統來決定，當然也要跟教廷溝通，以目前來說，總統是在決定代表我國出席的人員，任何的可能性都是在那裡，我們外交部的努力是總統決定了人選，我們跟對方溝通，現在因為教廷要處理很多相關的事情，所以我們密集的跟對方溝通，希望能夠順利派出我方的代表去教廷致上我們最誠摯的哀悼之意。"],["羅委員美玲：所以次長的意思是，到目前為止，人選還在討論當中，到底誰要去都還沒確定？"],["陳次長明祺：我想總統府應該會做宣布。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！那就是要等到總統府宣布，因為4月26日馬上就到了，大概……"],["陳次長明祺：很快了，我想時間很快。也跟委員報告，這還牽涉到雙方要協調溝通的狀況。"],["羅委員美玲：是，還要跟梵蒂岡……"],["陳次長明祺：是，梵蒂岡……"],["羅委員美玲：跟教廷這邊還要再做協商？"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，了解，次長請回。","再來我要邀請的是國安局黃明昭副局長。"],["黃副局長明昭：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：副局長，對於網路社群軟體有所謂關鍵字審查觸及率的監控，這個傳言其實已經很久了，在這個月的9日臉書前政策總監威廉斯女士出席了美國參議院的聽證會，他指出臉書母公司Meta的執行長祖克柏為了要進軍中國廣大的市場，跟中國共產黨合作，甚至親自設計了臉書的審查工具，把臺灣、香港及美國用戶的資料洩漏給中國政府。國安局有沒有相關的情資，威廉斯女士所說這部分是否屬實？"],["黃副局長明昭：這是媒體的報導，我想媒體的報導，我們是值得去關注，如果是有這種情形，當然我們要呼籲我們國人，尤其針對中共透過資訊數據取得的方式進行相關的應用，以及可能涉及到資安的問題，要特別重視。"],["羅委員美玲：因為這個傳聞其實很久了，你打了幾個關鍵字，可能你的觸及率就會降低或什麼，它會審查你的內容。我是要請教，因為國安局畢竟就是在蒐集一些情資，這個傳聞這麼久的消息，到底我們有沒有經過相關的管道去做查證？依照我們的情資，到底威廉斯女士所說是不是真的？到底有沒有相關的情資？因為美國認為這是國安問題，因為Meta旗下除了臉書之外，還有IG、Threads，還有WhatsApp等等，而且這些用戶都非常的多，像臉書，臺灣曾經高達1,900萬人，IG有將近1,100萬人，Threads目前也一直在成長當中，裡頭都有用戶的個資，不管是你的電話、你的信箱，甚至臉書還有定位追蹤的功能，如果屬實的話，那不是我們這些個資全都漏了嗎？美國認為是國安問題，我們當然也認為是啊，如果是屬實，我們如何去做預防、如何去做應付？我想了解國安局到底有沒有這方面的情資，這部分有嗎？"],["黃副局長明昭：目前我們的查證結果是沒有跡證顯示Meta針對特定國家或地區有進行這樣內容的特別審查，不過這個訊息既然已經披露出來，尤其在國會作證的時候披露出來，本局也會邀請相關行政部門來做研討，掌握美國國會調查Meta的情形來研討相關的因應作法。"],["羅委員美玲：所以國安局目前沒有任何的情資就對了？"],["黃副局長明昭：目前我們沒有蒐集到顯示有這個情形，對幾個特定地區或國家有這種情形的特別審查。"],["羅委員美玲：威廉斯女士的這個說法出來之後，其實國人當然是非常恐慌，到底這個部分是如何？因為你現在要讓全民停用，幾乎是不太可能，所以要如何預防、如何去做防範，或是我們有關的國安單位要積極去了解這個部分。還有，除了社群媒體、軟體危機重重，國安的滲透其實也是越來越嚴重，國民是否真正的了解滲透的樣態有哪一些，我們是要如何去向國人有效的做宣導？副局長，你曾經當過警政署的署長，其實像我們最近詐騙的樣態也非常多，我有發現警政署其實會透過不同的管道，讓國人了解目前詐騙的樣態有哪一些。所以我覺得像我們現在國安滲透這麼嚴重，是不是也應該向警政署這樣子，我們其實要讓國人積極的了解目前滲透的樣態有哪些，如果違反了國安法，它有哪一些罰則、哪一些罰鍰，不是只有在立法院，在準備這個報告的時候，在這裡報告一下，可是好像到目前為止，我們還沒有看到國安單位有很積極的用圖的方式或者各種管道來向國人宣導，我們要怎麼樣讓國人知道目前滲透情況的嚴重性，跟觸法之後會面對哪一些罰則？副局長。"],["黃副局長明昭：是，如同我剛剛專案報告裡面特別提到的，中共滲透的樣態、手法等哪種類型，我們歸類出來了，在教育宣導這一塊，其實法務部跟調查局跟國安局，每年都有分地區的全國性保防安全會議的宣導，包括滲透的方式，以及所涉及的法律責任召集會議，來對外做宣導。"],["羅委員美玲：我們只有內部召集會議？"],["黃副局長明昭：是。"],["羅委員美玲：我說如何讓民眾了解，我剛剛為什麼會提了警政署？你看警政署都會告知民眾，譬如「投資網站穩賺不賠」，這很可能就是一個詐騙，可能會掉入這個陷阱裡面。再來，還有「免費出國輕鬆工作，包吃、包住」，這可能就是人口販運。類似這樣子的宣導方式，國安單位好像做得還不是很足。"],["黃副局長明昭：本局的網站裡面也有專線，在政府公開資訊網都有。"],["羅委員美玲：是啦！"],["黃副局長明昭：但是誠如剛剛委員所提醒的，確實在擴大領域宣導的部分，還是要再強化。"],["羅委員美玲：對啦！因為現在真的是滲透得很嚴重，不管是總統府或是政府機關，甚至民間都可能有，甚至現在對我們所使用的社群軟體，我們都有很大的疑慮，像這些一定要一再提醒我們民眾，臺灣目前面臨的是什麼問題，不是只有詐騙而已，國安的問題也是非常的嚴重，也希望能夠像警政署這樣子多花一點時間，以最貼近基層的聲音，比如可能用畫圖的方式，用比較能夠理解的方式，讓民眾更加了解目前國安滲透的問題，以上。謝謝。"],["黃副局長明昭：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員上臺發言。","接下來由陳俊宇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-10","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","林憶君","林岱樺"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、外交部部長、國家安全局局長、總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長報告「近\n期國軍、外交部、總統府、國安會遭共諜滲透，其影響國安層面、範圍及未來人員考核管制之具\n體作法」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00005"}}}