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\"start\": 706.993, \"end\": 707.013, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 707.013, \"end\": 707.073, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 707.073, \"end\": 707.093, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:16,774 --> 00:00:26,216\n好謝謝主席我們有請顧部長部長早是陳委員早\n\n2\n00:00:28,578 --> 00:00:52,919\n部長因應這個共諜滲透的相關威脅,那也為了要防堵我們這個國安漏洞的這個部分那我們國防部已經多次表明要仿效美軍的這個做法,完善我們涉密查核的相關作業那有關建立全員揭密資格的認證的機制,想再請教部長能否\n\n3\n00:00:54,357 --> 00:01:21,717\n針對這個部分我們具體的說明規劃和執行的一個相關方式我們大概就是就我們的保防部門他其實我們在去年是整年有做一個全面的一個清查那今年再進一步13號2月13號定班的這個社民聯員的安全調查的作業規定之後呢\n\n4\n00:01:22,389 --> 00:01:50,292\n我們就以這個這個絕對機密及機密機密密集的這個程度不同我們這個我們當我們查核的時候比如說絕對機密的話我們查核的時間是到7年7年這個7年7年他的7年那我們也因為也已經跟了這個相關的財稅、戶證跟儘管都已經有接\n\n5\n00:01:52,155 --> 00:02:02,788\n有過溝通那就會調取這些相關的資料來進行他們這些不管是在財務面上有沒有一些\n\n6\n00:02:04,371 --> 00:02:30,479\n狀況然後在這個儘管的這個部分有沒有一些頻繁出入這個特別是中國的這樣的一個情形那這些都是在我們查核的範圍之內所以一旦有這個有一些疑慮的話那我們會進一步再來再來做一個\n\n7\n00:02:32,335 --> 00:02:50,284\n等於是對他在做進一步的約選或者是面訪部長我想請教,我們揭密查核的機制,對於君子和非君子的人員都一體適用嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:53,755 --> 00:03:10,244\n對你是說軍蚊子在國防部的軍蚊子一體使用以他涉密的程度都一體使用對所以軍子也不是以階級過去可能會以階級嘛那現在不以階級那蚊子的人員也一樣以涉密的程度\n\n9\n00:03:11,345 --> 00:03:26,945\n好,那從剛剛部長您報告當中,我們近期偵破的案例分析,那中共滲透的樣態不管是在管道或是手段都相當的多變,那也包括\n\n10\n00:03:28,344 --> 00:03:56,088\n透過這個退役的來拉攏現役那網路勾連還有比較嚴重的就是金錢利誘那還有債務脅迫等等那並且主要用這種債務的問題為弱點來突破那針對我們官兵可能遭遇的財務失衡的問題我們國防部有沒有提出相應應的這個配套措施以防範受金錢利誘而遭到突破\n\n11\n00:03:58,831 --> 00:04:06,348\n就第一個當然是就這個部分我們會來理解他到底有沒有一些\n\n12\n00:04:08,944 --> 00:04:35,027\n財務上的一些狀況我們會調取他的相關的一些財務的資料然後來了解他有沒有一些財務的一個狀況那當然我們也會建立一些大家都具有一個意思也就是說如果他跟他的同僚會借錢啊或者是他會跟誰來來表示他這個有一些困難啊等等的\n\n13\n00:04:35,467 --> 00:04:50,204\n那我們就會就這個有違案疑慮的我們來進一步來來進行一些約選的工作來進一步的瞭解那另外我們也正在提供一個緊按救助的管道這一個部分我們在跟行政院在協調當中\n\n14\n00:04:54,662 --> 00:05:23,113\n這部分我就請我們部長跟相關單位我們盡速來健全我們的一個安全的機制以利我們後續這個相關配套的原理來加緊我們防堵國防漏洞的相關問題那另外就是我想請教部長就是這個針對美非強化區域防禦的部分那在兼並兼演習\n\n15\n00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:45,451\n美飛的兼併間演習從4月21到5月9號那也是美飛之間最大規模的一次年度的軍事演習今年正式邁入第40年那參與的美國單位包括海軍陸戰隊、陸軍、空軍以及首次加入的日本自衛隊、澳洲軍隊並有16國的觀察員\n\n16\n00:05:49,773 --> 00:06:11,121\n演習的地點包括在南海還有臨近台灣的呂宋島北部,是否可能將台灣有事的這種情況也納入驗證?國防部對於本次演習的概況我們掌握的情況如何?我們有沒有和美方爭取一樣以觀察員的角色來參與演習?\n\n17\n00:06:16,110 --> 00:06:27,197\n國防部的立場就是說持續尋求推動跟友盟建構作戰的一個互通性然後來連結區域友盟來維護和平穩定,達到嚇阻戰爭的目標至於詳細的\n\n18\n00:06:34,946 --> 00:06:51,498\n您提的這個問題可能我們在私下跟委員報告好那本次的這個兼兵兼軍演其中還有一個亮點就是傳出他們會搭載海軍打擊飛彈的這個海軍的這個陸戰隊遠征艦艇來阻斷的阻斷系統部署在距離臨近台灣的這個呂宋海峽強化美軍的第一島鏈的這個嚇阻力\n\n19\n00:07:02,967 --> 00:07:25,417\n那之前這個美國菲律賓軍演之後,他有這個提風中程飛彈系統在演習之後是沒有移走,還是部署在呂宋島那未來這一次軍演的這個相關系統,會不會也仿效上次沒有拆除,這個有沒有可能?部長有沒有去了解看看?\n\n20\n00:07:28,495 --> 00:07:44,601\n這個新的這個叫做NMESIS的這個系統是一個特別因應這個印太地區要快速反應跟島嶼作戰能力由美國的這個陸戰隊來帶的這個一個輕量化的一個高機動的一個系統所以這個系統就是它\n\n21\n00:07:52,554 --> 00:08:13,736\n它因為可以輕量化,可以高機動,所以它只要美軍陸戰隊在哪裡的話,它這個系統就可以帶著就在那裡了所以它跟堤防還有一點的不同,那重點當然是它絕對是可以應用於濱海作戰跟反介入區域聚集等等這些\n\n22\n00:08:16,918 --> 00:08:32,965\n這個我想這個因應區域的威脅這一個部分當然是非常重要的這一項的一個裝備那至於後續的這個狀況會如何我們會持續來密註那因應這個美非的合作\n\n23\n00:08:33,985 --> 00:08:55,192\n以及這個武器的部署,那預期中共也可能會採取相應的這個動作來反制那在演習的期間,中共是否會增加在我們西南海域的軍事活動或是到演習之後,中共才會啟動他們相關對台進行的相關演訓,有沒有可能?\n\n24\n00:08:59,109 --> 00:09:16,301\n我們今天應該,我想他因應這個現在有關美國在這個第一島鏈不管是韓國、日本、菲律賓都在做從事這些聯合演習那也就是強化這個對於這個印太\n\n25\n00:09:19,363 --> 00:09:40,529\n區域和平穩定的一個承諾所以我想這個部分中國在因應這個部分上面當然他是會應該會有密切的一些關注那我們可以看得到就是說他\n\n26\n00:09:41,633 --> 00:10:10,299\n他也會有一些相關的一些因應的一些作為昨天應該今天應該有發布我們昨天有觀察到事實上中國在我們的西南空域有進行這個上午一次下午一次的海空聯訊有掌握就對了今天早上也進行了這部分我們國防部都有在掌握當中對我們利用我們聯合檢診的手段都有密切的掌握\n\n27\n00:10:10,868 --> 00:10:30,761\n另外還有一個問題就是菲律賓總統頒布新的備忘錄通告那要放寬過去三十多年來對政府官員與台灣交流的嚴格限制來擴大吸引台灣的投資或發展經濟的合作機會那在這個部分我想請教就是說他在新的備忘錄通告內\n\n28\n00:10:32,102 --> 00:10:47,470\n有備載就是除了總統副總統還有外交部長國防部長以外其餘的官員都可以為了經濟或是貿易來台灣招商可以使用一般的這個護照不用使用官方的頭銜就可以提前\n\n29\n00:10:49,383 --> 00:11:09,413\n就可以在這個前提之下來台灣那我想請教我們在這個當中有沒有機會跟菲律賓這邊來接洽是否有機會來建立雙方的軍政高層官員之間的一個交流機制也可以進一步來開啟我們跟菲律賓的軍事上的合作的可能性,有沒有可能?\n\n30\n00:11:11,325 --> 00:11:32,416\n國防部會持續爭取跟友盟在情報分享、資安防護、防制灰色地帶行動跟認識專案領域等等的這些的安全交流互動來共同建構區域防衛的機制詳細的、具體的部分,我想一樣如果私下再跟委員做報告\n\n31\n00:11:33,716 --> 00:11:47,093\n那菲律賓既然已經釋出了,台灣有事菲律賓就有事的話那我們也希望我們能夠加強跟菲律賓、日本、美國在第一島鏈的這個合作,共同來圍堵這個中共的一個擴張以上謝謝部長好謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n16774\t26216\t好 謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長部長早是陳委員早\n28578\t52919\t部長因應這個共諜滲透的相關威脅,那也為了要防堵我們這個國安漏洞的這個部分那我們國防部已經多次表明要仿效美軍的這個做法,完善我們涉密查核的相關作業那有關建立全員揭密資格的認證的機制,想再請教部長能否\n54357\t81717\t針對這個部分我們具體的說明規劃和執行的一個相關方式我們大概就是就我們的保防部門他其實我們在去年是整年有做一個全面的一個清查那今年再進一步13號2月13號定班的這個社民聯員的安全調查的作業規定之後呢\n82389\t110292\t我們就以這個這個絕對機密及機密機密密集的這個程度不同我們這個我們當我們查核的時候比如說絕對機密的話我們查核的時間是到7年7年這個7年7年他的7年那我們也因為也已經跟了這個相關的財稅、戶證跟儘管都已經有接\n112155\t122788\t有過溝通 那就會調取這些相關的資料來進行他們這些不管是在財務面上有沒有一些\n124371\t150479\t狀況然後在這個儘管的這個部分有沒有一些頻繁出入這個特別是中國的這樣的一個情形那這些都是在我們查核的範圍之內所以一旦有這個有一些疑慮的話那我們會進一步再來再來做一個\n152335\t170284\t等於是對他在做進一步的約選或者是面訪部長我想請教,我們揭密查核的機制,對於君子和非君子的人員都一體適用嗎?\n173755\t190244\t對 你是說軍蚊子 在國防部的軍蚊子 一體使用 以他涉密的程度都一體使用對 所以軍子也不是以階級 過去可能會以階級嘛那現在不以階級 那蚊子的人員也一樣以涉密的程度\n191345\t206945\t好,那從剛剛部長您報告當中,我們近期偵破的案例分析,那中共滲透的樣態不管是在管道或是手段都相當的多變,那也包括\n208344\t236088\t透過這個退役的來拉攏現役那網路勾連還有比較嚴重的就是金錢利誘那還有債務脅迫等等那並且主要用這種債務的問題為弱點來突破那針對我們官兵可能遭遇的財務失衡的問題我們國防部有沒有提出相應應的這個配套措施以防範受金錢利誘而遭到突破\n238831\t246348\t就第一個當然是就這個部分我們會來理解他到底有沒有一些\n248944\t275027\t財務上的一些狀況我們會調取他的相關的一些財務的資料然後來了解他有沒有一些財務的一個狀況那當然我們也會建立一些大家都具有一個意思也就是說如果他跟他的同僚會借錢啊或者是他會跟誰來來表示他這個有一些困難啊等等的\n275467\t290204\t那我們就會就這個有違案疑慮的我們來進一步來來進行一些約選的工作來進一步的瞭解那另外我們也正在提供一個緊按救助的管道這一個部分我們在跟行政院在協調當中\n294662\t323113\t這部分我就請我們部長跟相關單位我們盡速來健全我們的一個安全的機制以利我們後續這個相關配套的原理來加緊我們防堵國防漏洞的相關問題那另外就是我想請教部長就是這個針對美非強化區域防禦的部分那在兼並兼演習\n325100\t345451\t美飛的兼併間演習從4月21到5月9號那也是美飛之間最大規模的一次年度的軍事演習今年正式邁入第40年那參與的美國單位包括海軍陸戰隊、陸軍、空軍以及首次加入的日本自衛隊、澳洲軍隊並有16國的觀察員\n349773\t371121\t演習的地點包括在南海還有臨近台灣的呂宋島北部,是否可能將台灣有事的這種情況也納入驗證?國防部對於本次演習的概況我們掌握的情況如何?我們有沒有和美方爭取一樣以觀察員的角色來參與演習?\n376110\t387197\t國防部的立場就是說持續尋求推動跟友盟建構作戰的一個互通性然後來連結區域友盟來維護和平穩定,達到嚇阻戰爭的目標至於詳細的\n394946\t411498\t您提的這個問題可能我們在私下跟委員報告好那本次的這個兼兵兼軍演其中還有一個亮點就是傳出他們會搭載海軍打擊飛彈的這個海軍的這個陸戰隊遠征艦艇來阻斷的阻斷系統部署在距離臨近台灣的這個呂宋海峽強化美軍的第一島鏈的這個嚇阻力\n422967\t445417\t那之前這個美國菲律賓軍演之後,他有這個提風中程飛彈系統在演習之後是沒有移走,還是部署在呂宋島那未來這一次軍演的這個相關系統,會不會也仿效上次沒有拆除,這個有沒有可能?部長有沒有去了解看看?\n448495\t464601\t這個新的這個叫做NMESIS的這個系統是一個特別因應這個印太地區要快速反應跟島嶼作戰能力由美國的這個陸戰隊來帶的這個一個輕量化的一個高機動的一個系統所以這個系統就是它\n472554\t493736\t它因為可以輕量化,可以高機動,所以它只要美軍陸戰隊在哪裡的話,它這個系統就可以帶著就在那裡了所以它跟堤防還有一點的不同,那重點當然是它絕對是可以應用於濱海作戰跟反介入區域聚集等等這些\n496918\t512965\t這個我想這個因應區域的威脅這一個部分當然是非常重要的這一項的一個裝備那至於後續的這個狀況會如何我們會持續來密註那因應這個美非的合作\n513985\t535192\t以及這個武器的部署,那預期中共也可能會採取相應的這個動作來反制那在演習的期間,中共是否會增加在我們西南海域的軍事活動或是到演習之後,中共才會啟動他們相關對台進行的相關演訓,有沒有可能?\n539109\t556301\t我們今天應該,我想他因應這個現在有關美國在這個第一島鏈不管是韓國、日本、菲律賓都在做從事這些聯合演習那也就是強化這個對於這個印太\n559363\t580529\t區域和平穩定的一個承諾所以我想這個部分中國在因應這個部分上面當然他是會應該會有密切的一些關注那我們可以看得到就是說他\n581633\t610299\t他也會有一些相關的一些因應的一些作為昨天應該今天應該有發布我們昨天有觀察到事實上中國在我們的西南空域有進行這個上午一次下午一次的海空聯訊有掌握就對了今天早上也進行了這部分我們國防部都有在掌握當中對我們利用我們聯合檢診的手段都有密切的掌握\n610868\t630761\t另外還有一個問題就是菲律賓總統頒布新的備忘錄通告那要放寬過去三十多年來對政府官員與台灣交流的嚴格限制來擴大吸引台灣的投資或發展經濟的合作機會那在這個部分我想請教就是說他在新的備忘錄通告內\n632102\t647470\t有備載就是除了總統副總統還有外交部長國防部長以外其餘的官員都可以為了經濟或是貿易來台灣招商可以使用一般的這個護照不用使用官方的頭銜就可以提前\n649383\t669413\t就可以在這個前提之下來台灣那我想請教我們在這個當中有沒有機會跟菲律賓這邊來接洽是否有機會來建立雙方的軍政高層官員之間的一個交流機制也可以進一步來開啟我們跟菲律賓的軍事上的合作的可能性,有沒有可能?\n671325\t692416\t國防部會持續爭取跟友盟在情報分享、資安防護、防制灰色地帶行動跟認識專案領域等等的這些的安全交流互動來共同建構區域防衛的機制詳細的、具體的部分,我想一樣如果私下再跟委員做報告\n693716\t707093\t那菲律賓既然已經釋出了,台灣有事菲律賓就有事的話那我們也希望我們能夠加強跟菲律賓、日本、美國在第一島鏈的這個合作,共同來圍堵這個中共的一個擴張以上謝謝部長好謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長部長早是陳委員早\n部長因應這個共諜滲透的相關威脅,那也為了要防堵我們這個國安漏洞的這個部分那我們國防部已經多次表明要仿效美軍的這個做法,完善我們涉密查核的相關作業那有關建立全員揭密資格的認證的機制,想再請教部長能否\n針對這個部分我們具體的說明規劃和執行的一個相關方式我們大概就是就我們的保防部門他其實我們在去年是整年有做一個全面的一個清查那今年再進一步13號2月13號定班的這個社民聯員的安全調查的作業規定之後呢\n我們就以這個這個絕對機密及機密機密密集的這個程度不同我們這個我們當我們查核的時候比如說絕對機密的話我們查核的時間是到7年7年這個7年7年他的7年那我們也因為也已經跟了這個相關的財稅、戶證跟儘管都已經有接\n有過溝通 那就會調取這些相關的資料來進行他們這些不管是在財務面上有沒有一些\n狀況然後在這個儘管的這個部分有沒有一些頻繁出入這個特別是中國的這樣的一個情形那這些都是在我們查核的範圍之內所以一旦有這個有一些疑慮的話那我們會進一步再來再來做一個\n等於是對他在做進一步的約選或者是面訪部長我想請教,我們揭密查核的機制,對於君子和非君子的人員都一體適用嗎?\n對 你是說軍蚊子 在國防部的軍蚊子 一體使用 以他涉密的程度都一體使用對 所以軍子也不是以階級 過去可能會以階級嘛那現在不以階級 那蚊子的人員也一樣以涉密的程度\n好,那從剛剛部長您報告當中,我們近期偵破的案例分析,那中共滲透的樣態不管是在管道或是手段都相當的多變,那也包括\n透過這個退役的來拉攏現役那網路勾連還有比較嚴重的就是金錢利誘那還有債務脅迫等等那並且主要用這種債務的問題為弱點來突破那針對我們官兵可能遭遇的財務失衡的問題我們國防部有沒有提出相應應的這個配套措施以防範受金錢利誘而遭到突破\n就第一個當然是就這個部分我們會來理解他到底有沒有一些\n財務上的一些狀況我們會調取他的相關的一些財務的資料然後來了解他有沒有一些財務的一個狀況那當然我們也會建立一些大家都具有一個意思也就是說如果他跟他的同僚會借錢啊或者是他會跟誰來來表示他這個有一些困難啊等等的\n那我們就會就這個有違案疑慮的我們來進一步來來進行一些約選的工作來進一步的瞭解那另外我們也正在提供一個緊按救助的管道這一個部分我們在跟行政院在協調當中\n這部分我就請我們部長跟相關單位我們盡速來健全我們的一個安全的機制以利我們後續這個相關配套的原理來加緊我們防堵國防漏洞的相關問題那另外就是我想請教部長就是這個針對美非強化區域防禦的部分那在兼並兼演習\n美飛的兼併間演習從4月21到5月9號那也是美飛之間最大規模的一次年度的軍事演習今年正式邁入第40年那參與的美國單位包括海軍陸戰隊、陸軍、空軍以及首次加入的日本自衛隊、澳洲軍隊並有16國的觀察員\n演習的地點包括在南海還有臨近台灣的呂宋島北部,是否可能將台灣有事的這種情況也納入驗證?國防部對於本次演習的概況我們掌握的情況如何?我們有沒有和美方爭取一樣以觀察員的角色來參與演習?\n國防部的立場就是說持續尋求推動跟友盟建構作戰的一個互通性然後來連結區域友盟來維護和平穩定,達到嚇阻戰爭的目標至於詳細的\n您提的這個問題可能我們在私下跟委員報告好那本次的這個兼兵兼軍演其中還有一個亮點就是傳出他們會搭載海軍打擊飛彈的這個海軍的這個陸戰隊遠征艦艇來阻斷的阻斷系統部署在距離臨近台灣的這個呂宋海峽強化美軍的第一島鏈的這個嚇阻力\n那之前這個美國菲律賓軍演之後,他有這個提風中程飛彈系統在演習之後是沒有移走,還是部署在呂宋島那未來這一次軍演的這個相關系統,會不會也仿效上次沒有拆除,這個有沒有可能?部長有沒有去了解看看?\n這個新的這個叫做NMESIS的這個系統是一個特別因應這個印太地區要快速反應跟島嶼作戰能力由美國的這個陸戰隊來帶的這個一個輕量化的一個高機動的一個系統所以這個系統就是它\n它因為可以輕量化,可以高機動,所以它只要美軍陸戰隊在哪裡的話,它這個系統就可以帶著就在那裡了所以它跟堤防還有一點的不同,那重點當然是它絕對是可以應用於濱海作戰跟反介入區域聚集等等這些\n這個我想這個因應區域的威脅這一個部分當然是非常重要的這一項的一個裝備那至於後續的這個狀況會如何我們會持續來密註那因應這個美非的合作\n以及這個武器的部署,那預期中共也可能會採取相應的這個動作來反制那在演習的期間,中共是否會增加在我們西南海域的軍事活動或是到演習之後,中共才會啟動他們相關對台進行的相關演訓,有沒有可能?\n我們今天應該,我想他因應這個現在有關美國在這個第一島鏈不管是韓國、日本、菲律賓都在做從事這些聯合演習那也就是強化這個對於這個印太\n區域和平穩定的一個承諾所以我想這個部分中國在因應這個部分上面當然他是會應該會有密切的一些關注那我們可以看得到就是說他\n他也會有一些相關的一些因應的一些作為昨天應該今天應該有發布我們昨天有觀察到事實上中國在我們的西南空域有進行這個上午一次下午一次的海空聯訊有掌握就對了今天早上也進行了這部分我們國防部都有在掌握當中對我們利用我們聯合檢診的手段都有密切的掌握\n另外還有一個問題就是菲律賓總統頒布新的備忘錄通告那要放寬過去三十多年來對政府官員與台灣交流的嚴格限制來擴大吸引台灣的投資或發展經濟的合作機會那在這個部分我想請教就是說他在新的備忘錄通告內\n有備載就是除了總統副總統還有外交部長國防部長以外其餘的官員都可以為了經濟或是貿易來台灣招商可以使用一般的這個護照不用使用官方的頭銜就可以提前\n就可以在這個前提之下來台灣那我想請教我們在這個當中有沒有機會跟菲律賓這邊來接洽是否有機會來建立雙方的軍政高層官員之間的一個交流機制也可以進一步來開啟我們跟菲律賓的軍事上的合作的可能性,有沒有可能?\n國防部會持續爭取跟友盟在情報分享、資安防護、防制灰色地帶行動跟認識專案領域等等的這些的安全交流互動來共同建構區域防衛的機制詳細的、具體的部分,我想一樣如果私下再跟委員做報告\n那菲律賓既然已經釋出了,台灣有事菲律賓就有事的話那我們也希望我們能夠加強跟菲律賓、日本、美國在第一島鏈的這個合作,共同來圍堵這個中共的一個擴張以上謝謝部長好謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:16.774 --> 00:26.216\n好謝謝主席我們有請顧部長部長早是陳委員早\n\n00:28.578 --> 00:52.919\n部長因應這個共諜滲透的相關威脅,那也為了要防堵我們這個國安漏洞的這個部分那我們國防部已經多次表明要仿效美軍的這個做法,完善我們涉密查核的相關作業那有關建立全員揭密資格的認證的機制,想再請教部長能否\n\n00:54.357 --> 01:21.717\n針對這個部分我們具體的說明規劃和執行的一個相關方式我們大概就是就我們的保防部門他其實我們在去年是整年有做一個全面的一個清查那今年再進一步13號2月13號定班的這個社民聯員的安全調查的作業規定之後呢\n\n01:22.389 --> 01:50.292\n我們就以這個這個絕對機密及機密機密密集的這個程度不同我們這個我們當我們查核的時候比如說絕對機密的話我們查核的時間是到7年7年這個7年7年他的7年那我們也因為也已經跟了這個相關的財稅、戶證跟儘管都已經有接\n\n01:52.155 --> 02:02.788\n有過溝通那就會調取這些相關的資料來進行他們這些不管是在財務面上有沒有一些\n\n02:04.371 --> 02:30.479\n狀況然後在這個儘管的這個部分有沒有一些頻繁出入這個特別是中國的這樣的一個情形那這些都是在我們查核的範圍之內所以一旦有這個有一些疑慮的話那我們會進一步再來再來做一個\n\n02:32.335 --> 02:50.284\n等於是對他在做進一步的約選或者是面訪部長我想請教,我們揭密查核的機制,對於君子和非君子的人員都一體適用嗎?\n\n02:53.755 --> 03:10.244\n對你是說軍蚊子在國防部的軍蚊子一體使用以他涉密的程度都一體使用對所以軍子也不是以階級過去可能會以階級嘛那現在不以階級那蚊子的人員也一樣以涉密的程度\n\n03:11.345 --> 03:26.945\n好,那從剛剛部長您報告當中,我們近期偵破的案例分析,那中共滲透的樣態不管是在管道或是手段都相當的多變,那也包括\n\n03:28.344 --> 03:56.088\n透過這個退役的來拉攏現役那網路勾連還有比較嚴重的就是金錢利誘那還有債務脅迫等等那並且主要用這種債務的問題為弱點來突破那針對我們官兵可能遭遇的財務失衡的問題我們國防部有沒有提出相應應的這個配套措施以防範受金錢利誘而遭到突破\n\n03:58.831 --> 04:06.348\n就第一個當然是就這個部分我們會來理解他到底有沒有一些\n\n04:08.944 --> 04:35.027\n財務上的一些狀況我們會調取他的相關的一些財務的資料然後來了解他有沒有一些財務的一個狀況那當然我們也會建立一些大家都具有一個意思也就是說如果他跟他的同僚會借錢啊或者是他會跟誰來來表示他這個有一些困難啊等等的\n\n04:35.467 --> 04:50.204\n那我們就會就這個有違案疑慮的我們來進一步來來進行一些約選的工作來進一步的瞭解那另外我們也正在提供一個緊按救助的管道這一個部分我們在跟行政院在協調當中\n\n04:54.662 --> 05:23.113\n這部分我就請我們部長跟相關單位我們盡速來健全我們的一個安全的機制以利我們後續這個相關配套的原理來加緊我們防堵國防漏洞的相關問題那另外就是我想請教部長就是這個針對美非強化區域防禦的部分那在兼並兼演習\n\n05:25.100 --> 05:45.451\n美飛的兼併間演習從4月21到5月9號那也是美飛之間最大規模的一次年度的軍事演習今年正式邁入第40年那參與的美國單位包括海軍陸戰隊、陸軍、空軍以及首次加入的日本自衛隊、澳洲軍隊並有16國的觀察員\n\n05:49.773 --> 06:11.121\n演習的地點包括在南海還有臨近台灣的呂宋島北部,是否可能將台灣有事的這種情況也納入驗證?國防部對於本次演習的概況我們掌握的情況如何?我們有沒有和美方爭取一樣以觀察員的角色來參與演習?\n\n06:16.110 --> 06:27.197\n國防部的立場就是說持續尋求推動跟友盟建構作戰的一個互通性然後來連結區域友盟來維護和平穩定,達到嚇阻戰爭的目標至於詳細的\n\n06:34.946 --> 06:51.498\n您提的這個問題可能我們在私下跟委員報告好那本次的這個兼兵兼軍演其中還有一個亮點就是傳出他們會搭載海軍打擊飛彈的這個海軍的這個陸戰隊遠征艦艇來阻斷的阻斷系統部署在距離臨近台灣的這個呂宋海峽強化美軍的第一島鏈的這個嚇阻力\n\n07:02.967 --> 07:25.417\n那之前這個美國菲律賓軍演之後,他有這個提風中程飛彈系統在演習之後是沒有移走,還是部署在呂宋島那未來這一次軍演的這個相關系統,會不會也仿效上次沒有拆除,這個有沒有可能?部長有沒有去了解看看?\n\n07:28.495 --> 07:44.601\n這個新的這個叫做NMESIS的這個系統是一個特別因應這個印太地區要快速反應跟島嶼作戰能力由美國的這個陸戰隊來帶的這個一個輕量化的一個高機動的一個系統所以這個系統就是它\n\n07:52.554 --> 08:13.736\n它因為可以輕量化,可以高機動,所以它只要美軍陸戰隊在哪裡的話,它這個系統就可以帶著就在那裡了所以它跟堤防還有一點的不同,那重點當然是它絕對是可以應用於濱海作戰跟反介入區域聚集等等這些\n\n08:16.918 --> 08:32.965\n這個我想這個因應區域的威脅這一個部分當然是非常重要的這一項的一個裝備那至於後續的這個狀況會如何我們會持續來密註那因應這個美非的合作\n\n08:33.985 --> 08:55.192\n以及這個武器的部署,那預期中共也可能會採取相應的這個動作來反制那在演習的期間,中共是否會增加在我們西南海域的軍事活動或是到演習之後,中共才會啟動他們相關對台進行的相關演訓,有沒有可能?\n\n08:59.109 --> 09:16.301\n我們今天應該,我想他因應這個現在有關美國在這個第一島鏈不管是韓國、日本、菲律賓都在做從事這些聯合演習那也就是強化這個對於這個印太\n\n09:19.363 --> 09:40.529\n區域和平穩定的一個承諾所以我想這個部分中國在因應這個部分上面當然他是會應該會有密切的一些關注那我們可以看得到就是說他\n\n09:41.633 --> 10:10.299\n他也會有一些相關的一些因應的一些作為昨天應該今天應該有發布我們昨天有觀察到事實上中國在我們的西南空域有進行這個上午一次下午一次的海空聯訊有掌握就對了今天早上也進行了這部分我們國防部都有在掌握當中對我們利用我們聯合檢診的手段都有密切的掌握\n\n10:10.868 --> 10:30.761\n另外還有一個問題就是菲律賓總統頒布新的備忘錄通告那要放寬過去三十多年來對政府官員與台灣交流的嚴格限制來擴大吸引台灣的投資或發展經濟的合作機會那在這個部分我想請教就是說他在新的備忘錄通告內\n\n10:32.102 --> 10:47.470\n有備載就是除了總統副總統還有外交部長國防部長以外其餘的官員都可以為了經濟或是貿易來台灣招商可以使用一般的這個護照不用使用官方的頭銜就可以提前\n\n10:49.383 --> 11:09.413\n就可以在這個前提之下來台灣那我想請教我們在這個當中有沒有機會跟菲律賓這邊來接洽是否有機會來建立雙方的軍政高層官員之間的一個交流機制也可以進一步來開啟我們跟菲律賓的軍事上的合作的可能性,有沒有可能?\n\n11:11.325 --> 11:32.416\n國防部會持續爭取跟友盟在情報分享、資安防護、防制灰色地帶行動跟認識專案領域等等的這些的安全交流互動來共同建構區域防衛的機制詳細的、具體的部分,我想一樣如果私下再跟委員做報告\n\n11:33.716 --> 11:47.093\n那菲律賓既然已經釋出了,台灣有事菲律賓就有事的話那我們也希望我們能夠加強跟菲律賓、日本、美國在第一島鏈的這個合作,共同來圍堵這個中共的一個擴張以上謝謝部長好謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":16.774,"end":26.216,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長部長早是陳委員早"},{"start":28.578,"end":52.919,"text":"部長因應這個共諜滲透的相關威脅,那也為了要防堵我們這個國安漏洞的這個部分那我們國防部已經多次表明要仿效美軍的這個做法,完善我們涉密查核的相關作業那有關建立全員揭密資格的認證的機制,想再請教部長能否"},{"start":54.357,"end":81.717,"text":"針對這個部分我們具體的說明規劃和執行的一個相關方式我們大概就是就我們的保防部門他其實我們在去年是整年有做一個全面的一個清查那今年再進一步13號2月13號定班的這個社民聯員的安全調查的作業規定之後呢"},{"start":82.389,"end":110.292,"text":"我們就以這個這個絕對機密及機密機密密集的這個程度不同我們這個我們當我們查核的時候比如說絕對機密的話我們查核的時間是到7年7年這個7年7年他的7年那我們也因為也已經跟了這個相關的財稅、戶證跟儘管都已經有接"},{"start":112.155,"end":122.788,"text":"有過溝通 那就會調取這些相關的資料來進行他們這些不管是在財務面上有沒有一些"},{"start":124.371,"end":150.479,"text":"狀況然後在這個儘管的這個部分有沒有一些頻繁出入這個特別是中國的這樣的一個情形那這些都是在我們查核的範圍之內所以一旦有這個有一些疑慮的話那我們會進一步再來再來做一個"},{"start":152.335,"end":170.284,"text":"等於是對他在做進一步的約選或者是面訪部長我想請教,我們揭密查核的機制,對於君子和非君子的人員都一體適用嗎?"},{"start":173.755,"end":190.244,"text":"對 你是說軍蚊子 在國防部的軍蚊子 一體使用 以他涉密的程度都一體使用對 所以軍子也不是以階級 過去可能會以階級嘛那現在不以階級 那蚊子的人員也一樣以涉密的程度"},{"start":191.345,"end":206.945,"text":"好,那從剛剛部長您報告當中,我們近期偵破的案例分析,那中共滲透的樣態不管是在管道或是手段都相當的多變,那也包括"},{"start":208.344,"end":236.088,"text":"透過這個退役的來拉攏現役那網路勾連還有比較嚴重的就是金錢利誘那還有債務脅迫等等那並且主要用這種債務的問題為弱點來突破那針對我們官兵可能遭遇的財務失衡的問題我們國防部有沒有提出相應應的這個配套措施以防範受金錢利誘而遭到突破"},{"start":238.831,"end":246.348,"text":"就第一個當然是就這個部分我們會來理解他到底有沒有一些"},{"start":248.944,"end":275.027,"text":"財務上的一些狀況我們會調取他的相關的一些財務的資料然後來了解他有沒有一些財務的一個狀況那當然我們也會建立一些大家都具有一個意思也就是說如果他跟他的同僚會借錢啊或者是他會跟誰來來表示他這個有一些困難啊等等的"},{"start":275.467,"end":290.204,"text":"那我們就會就這個有違案疑慮的我們來進一步來來進行一些約選的工作來進一步的瞭解那另外我們也正在提供一個緊按救助的管道這一個部分我們在跟行政院在協調當中"},{"start":294.662,"end":323.113,"text":"這部分我就請我們部長跟相關單位我們盡速來健全我們的一個安全的機制以利我們後續這個相關配套的原理來加緊我們防堵國防漏洞的相關問題那另外就是我想請教部長就是這個針對美非強化區域防禦的部分那在兼並兼演習"},{"start":325.1,"end":345.451,"text":"美飛的兼併間演習從4月21到5月9號那也是美飛之間最大規模的一次年度的軍事演習今年正式邁入第40年那參與的美國單位包括海軍陸戰隊、陸軍、空軍以及首次加入的日本自衛隊、澳洲軍隊並有16國的觀察員"},{"start":349.773,"end":371.121,"text":"演習的地點包括在南海還有臨近台灣的呂宋島北部,是否可能將台灣有事的這種情況也納入驗證?國防部對於本次演習的概況我們掌握的情況如何?我們有沒有和美方爭取一樣以觀察員的角色來參與演習?"},{"start":376.11,"end":387.197,"text":"國防部的立場就是說持續尋求推動跟友盟建構作戰的一個互通性然後來連結區域友盟來維護和平穩定,達到嚇阻戰爭的目標至於詳細的"},{"start":394.946,"end":411.498,"text":"您提的這個問題可能我們在私下跟委員報告好那本次的這個兼兵兼軍演其中還有一個亮點就是傳出他們會搭載海軍打擊飛彈的這個海軍的這個陸戰隊遠征艦艇來阻斷的阻斷系統部署在距離臨近台灣的這個呂宋海峽強化美軍的第一島鏈的這個嚇阻力"},{"start":422.967,"end":445.417,"text":"那之前這個美國菲律賓軍演之後,他有這個提風中程飛彈系統在演習之後是沒有移走,還是部署在呂宋島那未來這一次軍演的這個相關系統,會不會也仿效上次沒有拆除,這個有沒有可能?部長有沒有去了解看看?"},{"start":448.495,"end":464.601,"text":"這個新的這個叫做NMESIS的這個系統是一個特別因應這個印太地區要快速反應跟島嶼作戰能力由美國的這個陸戰隊來帶的這個一個輕量化的一個高機動的一個系統所以這個系統就是它"},{"start":472.554,"end":493.736,"text":"它因為可以輕量化,可以高機動,所以它只要美軍陸戰隊在哪裡的話,它這個系統就可以帶著就在那裡了所以它跟堤防還有一點的不同,那重點當然是它絕對是可以應用於濱海作戰跟反介入區域聚集等等這些"},{"start":496.918,"end":512.965,"text":"這個我想這個因應區域的威脅這一個部分當然是非常重要的這一項的一個裝備那至於後續的這個狀況會如何我們會持續來密註那因應這個美非的合作"},{"start":513.985,"end":535.192,"text":"以及這個武器的部署,那預期中共也可能會採取相應的這個動作來反制那在演習的期間,中共是否會增加在我們西南海域的軍事活動或是到演習之後,中共才會啟動他們相關對台進行的相關演訓,有沒有可能?"},{"start":539.109,"end":556.301,"text":"我們今天應該,我想他因應這個現在有關美國在這個第一島鏈不管是韓國、日本、菲律賓都在做從事這些聯合演習那也就是強化這個對於這個印太"},{"start":559.363,"end":580.529,"text":"區域和平穩定的一個承諾所以我想這個部分中國在因應這個部分上面當然他是會應該會有密切的一些關注那我們可以看得到就是說他"},{"start":581.633,"end":610.299,"text":"他也會有一些相關的一些因應的一些作為昨天應該今天應該有發布我們昨天有觀察到事實上中國在我們的西南空域有進行這個上午一次下午一次的海空聯訊有掌握就對了今天早上也進行了這部分我們國防部都有在掌握當中對我們利用我們聯合檢診的手段都有密切的掌握"},{"start":610.868,"end":630.761,"text":"另外還有一個問題就是菲律賓總統頒布新的備忘錄通告那要放寬過去三十多年來對政府官員與台灣交流的嚴格限制來擴大吸引台灣的投資或發展經濟的合作機會那在這個部分我想請教就是說他在新的備忘錄通告內"},{"start":632.102,"end":647.47,"text":"有備載就是除了總統副總統還有外交部長國防部長以外其餘的官員都可以為了經濟或是貿易來台灣招商可以使用一般的這個護照不用使用官方的頭銜就可以提前"},{"start":649.383,"end":669.413,"text":"就可以在這個前提之下來台灣那我想請教我們在這個當中有沒有機會跟菲律賓這邊來接洽是否有機會來建立雙方的軍政高層官員之間的一個交流機制也可以進一步來開啟我們跟菲律賓的軍事上的合作的可能性,有沒有可能?"},{"start":671.325,"end":692.416,"text":"國防部會持續爭取跟友盟在情報分享、資安防護、防制灰色地帶行動跟認識專案領域等等的這些的安全交流互動來共同建構區域防衛的機制詳細的、具體的部分,我想一樣如果私下再跟委員做報告"},{"start":693.716,"end":707.093,"text":"那菲律賓既然已經釋出了,台灣有事菲律賓就有事的話那我們也希望我們能夠加強跟菲律賓、日本、美國在第一島鏈的這個合作,共同來圍堵這個中共的一個擴張以上謝謝部長好謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":138,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（9時39分）謝謝主席，我們有請顧部長。部長早。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員早。"],["陳委員俊宇：部長，因應共諜滲透的相關威脅，也為了要防堵國安漏洞，國防部已經多次表明要仿效美軍的作法，完善我們涉密查核的相關作業，有關建立全員接密資格的認證機制，想再請教部長，針對這部分能否具體地說明其規劃和執行的相關方式？"],["顧部長立雄：大概是就我們的保防部門，其實我們在去年一整年有做全面的清查，今年再進一步於2月13訂頒涉密人員安全調查作業規定之後，我們就以絕對機密、極機密、機密、密級的程度不同，當我們查核的時候，比如說絕對機密的話，我們查核的時間是到7年……"],["陳委員俊宇：7年？"],["顧部長立雄：它的7年。因為我們也跟相關的財稅、戶政跟境管都已經有過溝通，就會調取相關的資料進行查核，不管是在財務面上有沒有一些狀況，在境管的部分，有沒有一些頻繁出入，特別是出入中國的情形，這些都是在我們查核的範圍之內，所以一旦有一些疑慮，我們會對他再做進一步的約詢或者是面訪。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。部長，我想請教接密查核的機制，對於軍職和非軍職的人員都一體適用嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：對。你是說在國防部的軍文職？"],["陳委員俊宇：對，軍文職。"],["顧部長立雄：對，一體適用，以他涉密的程度。"],["陳委員俊宇：都一體適用？"],["顧部長立雄：對、對。軍職也不是以階級，過去可能會以階級，現在不以階級，文職人員也一樣以涉密的程度。"],["陳委員俊宇：從剛剛部長您報告當中，我們近期偵破的案例分析，中共滲透的樣態，不管是在管道或是手段都相當地多變，也包括透過退役的來拉攏現役、網路勾連，還有比較嚴重的就是金錢利誘及債務脅迫等等，並且主要用這種債務的問題為弱點來突破，針對我們官兵可能遭遇財務失衡的問題，國防部有沒有提出相應的配套措施，以防範受金錢利誘而遭到突破？"],["顧部長立雄：第一個，當然是就這個部分，我們會來理解他到底有沒有財務上的一些狀況，我們會調取他相關的財務資料，來瞭解他有沒有一些財務狀況，當然我們也會建立大家都具有一個意識，也就是說，如果他跟他的同僚會借錢，或者是他會跟誰來表示他有一些困難等等，就這個有危安疑慮的，我們會進行約詢的工作來進一步瞭解。另外，我們也正在提供一個急難救助的管道，這部分我們跟行政院在協調當中。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。這部分就請部長跟相關單位儘速來健全我們的安全機制，以利後續相關配套的研擬，加緊防堵國防漏洞的相關問題。","另外我想請教部長，針對美菲強化區域防禦的部分，在美菲從4月21到5月9號的肩並肩演習，也是美菲之間最大規模的一次年度軍事演習，今年正式邁入第40年，參與的美國單位包括海軍陸戰隊、陸軍、空軍以及首次加入的日本自衛隊、澳洲軍隊，並有16國的觀察員，演習的地點包括在南海，還有鄰近臺灣的呂宋島北部，是否可能將「臺灣有事」的這種情況也納入驗證？國防部對於本次演習的概況，我們掌握的情況如何？我們有沒有和美方爭取一樣以觀察員的角色來參與演習？"],["顧部長立雄：國防部的立場就是持續尋求跟推動與友盟建構作戰的互通性，連結區域友盟來維護和平、穩定，達到嚇阻戰爭的目標。至於詳細的部分，即您提的這個問題，我們可能再私下跟委員報告。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。本次的肩並肩軍演，其中還有一個亮點，就是傳出他們會搭載海軍打擊飛彈的「海軍/陸戰隊遠征艦隊阻絕系統」，部署在距離鄰近臺灣的呂宋海峽，強化美軍第一島鏈的嚇阻力。之前在美國、菲律賓軍演之後，他有堤豐中程飛彈系統沒有移走，還是部署在呂宋島，未來這一次軍演的相關系統會不會也仿效上次沒有拆除？這個有沒有可能？部長，有沒有去瞭解看看？"],["顧部長立雄：新的系統叫作NMESIS，是一個特別因應印太地區快速反應跟島嶼作戰能力，由美國的陸戰隊帶著這個輕量化、高機動的系統，這個系統因為可以輕量化、可以高機動，只要美軍的陸戰隊在那裡，這個系統可以帶著就在那裡了，所以它跟堤豐還是有一點不同，重點當然是它絕對可以運用於濱海戰役跟「反介入/區域拒止」等等這些，我想因應區域威脅的部分，當然是非常重要的一項裝備，至於後續的狀況會如何，我們會持續來密注。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。因應美菲的合作及武器的部署，預期中共也可能會採取相因應的動作來反制，在演習期間，中共是否會增加在我們西南海域的軍事活動？或是到演習之後，中共才會啟動他們對臺進行的相關演訓？有沒有可能？"],["顧部長立雄：我想他因應現在美國的第一島鏈，不管是美國跟韓國、日本、菲律賓都在從事這些聯合演習，也就是強化對於印太區域和平穩定的承諾，所以我想中國在因應這個部分上，當然他應該會有密切的一些關注，我們可以看得到他也會有相關的因應作為，今天應該有發布了。我們昨天有觀察到，事實上中國在我們的西南空域有進行上午一次、下午一次的海空聯訓。"],["陳委員俊宇：有掌握就對了？"],["顧部長立雄：今天早上也進行了。"],["陳委員俊宇：這部分我們國防部都有在掌握當中？"],["顧部長立雄：對、對、對，我們利用我們聯合情偵的手段也都有密切地掌握。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外還有一個問題，就是菲律賓總統頒布新的備忘錄通告，要放寬過去三十多年來對政府官員與臺灣交流的嚴格限制，擴大吸收、吸引臺灣的投資或發展經濟的合作機會，在這個部分我想請教的就是，他在新的備忘錄通告內有備載，除了總統、副總統還有外交部長、國防部長以外，其餘的官員都可以為了經濟或是貿易來臺灣招商，可以使用一般的護照，不用使用官方的頭銜，就可以在這個前提之下來臺灣。我想請教，我們在這個當中，有沒有機會跟菲律賓這邊來接洽，是否有機會來建立雙方的軍政高層官員之間的交流機制，也可以進一步來開啟我們跟菲律賓軍事上合作的可能性，有沒有可能？"],["顧部長立雄：國防部會持續爭取跟友盟在情報分享、治安防護、防制灰色地帶行動跟認知作戰領域等等這些的安全交流互動，來共同建構區域防衛的機制，詳細的、具體的部分，我想一樣，私下再跟委員做報告。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，菲律賓既然已經釋出了臺灣有事、菲律賓就有事的話，我們也希望我們能夠加強跟菲律賓、日本、美國在第一島鏈的合作，共同來圍堵中共的擴張，以上，謝謝部長。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席（陳委員永康代）：謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言。","我們下面請黃仁委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-10","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","林憶君","林岱樺"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、外交部部長、國家安全局局長、總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長報告「近\n期國軍、外交部、總統府、國安會遭共諜滲透，其影響國安層面、範圍及未來人員考核管制之具\n體作法」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00005"}}}