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{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 597.13, \"end\": 597.91, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 597.91, \"end\": 598.03, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 598.03, \"end\": 598.311, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 598.311, \"end\": 598.451, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 598.451, \"end\": 598.551, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 598.551, \"end\": 598.671, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 598.671, \"end\": 599.292, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 599.292, \"end\": 599.412, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 599.412, \"end\": 599.612, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 599.612, \"end\": 600.273, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"墊\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 600.273, \"end\": 600.373, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 600.373, \"end\": 600.453, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 600.453, \"end\": 600.753, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 600.753, \"end\": 601.274, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 601.274, \"end\": 601.934, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"省\", \"start\": 601.934, \"end\": 602.214, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 602.214, \"end\": 602.315, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 602.315, \"end\": 602.435, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"省\", \"start\": 602.435, \"end\": 602.615, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 602.615, \"end\": 603.195, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 603.195, \"end\": 603.295, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 603.295, \"end\": 603.335, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 603.335, \"end\": 603.756, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 603.756, \"end\": 603.896, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 603.896, \"end\": 604.016, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 604.016, \"end\": 604.096, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 604.096, \"end\": 604.116, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 604.116, \"end\": 604.777, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 604.777, \"end\": 605.097, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"薛\", \"start\": 605.097, \"end\": 605.257, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 605.257, \"end\": 605.277, \"score\": 0.026}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,095 --> 00:00:12,376\n主席好我們一樣請邱部長委員好部長好我還是剛剛的問題剛剛我看劉建國委員有問這個問題就是資安署成立的時候我們蔡英文總統說要打造最強的資安國家隊每次說要推國家隊到後來就發生一些問題一堆問題\n\n2\n00:00:34,562 --> 00:00:52,283\n那我們剛剛都有把這個細節都講了那我還是要問我們這第三起的這個長盛醫院又被攻擊那傳出來是8萬多筆的資料那但是我們資安業者有揭露他們的調查結果\n\n3\n00:00:53,445 --> 00:00:54,786\n我們現在部裡面掌握的是不是這樣子\n\n4\n00:01:14,102 --> 00:01:17,807\n今天早上已經有比較詳細的報告過了至於說這家地區醫院的一個狀況是不是請我們處長跟委員報告一下\n\n5\n00:01:25,307 --> 00:01:41,776\n那看委員報告,就是這個我們一開始八萬就有掌握了,然後那資安業者講的是三萬比的,後來講這些呢?這個東西現在就是它的主要單位都已經報給刑事局、調查局在處理,它現在不是我們的業管單位好,那你們現在,我現在就問,你們現在要怎麼處理這個東西?怎麼樣加強?\n\n6\n00:01:45,282 --> 00:02:02,863\n因為他不是我們法尊裡面的夜滾單位所以我們就是把這些工具好譬如說他們需要我們治安專家需要我們的這些SOP我們都可以給他支援但是基於這個調查防範的話那這是由調查局對我想要問你我們以後怎麼保護這些資料呢\n\n7\n00:02:06,029 --> 00:02:19,559\n我想我們已經有SOP對特別是重要的關鍵60家的關鍵型的醫院剛剛我聽劉建國委員講的因為有很多委外的一些單位你們研判有可能從這邊露出對不對\n\n8\n00:02:21,481 --> 00:02:45,877\n那你以後要怎麼樣去防範這樣的一個問題醫院畢竟沒有辦法完全封閉的資訊他要跟外面有一些連結所以這個部分我今天講這個問題就只有兩個重點第一個你以未來怎麼防範第二個就是我們現在外流的資料我們要怎麼處理他們有沒有研判過有沒有討論過他盜取這個資料是要做什麼\n\n9\n00:02:47,665 --> 00:03:15,139\n我想委員問的這兩個都很重要的議題,我想是不是處長回應一下好,那第一個就是未來的防範的話,就是我們要來跟治安署來討論怎麼樣擴大來保護我們非關鍵技術措施的醫院因為全國有四五百家,這是一個相當龐大的工程那這個一定會去跟他研議一個方法那我想盡快啦好不好,這個也不要再講那麼多,那未來已經流出的資料怎麼處理呢?\n\n10\n00:03:16,596 --> 00:03:28,704\n已經流出這個資料的話那這個就是說他們一般就是要勒索就是勒索的意思就是說如果你沒有付錢的話他就資料不會還給你這樣子所以這個都已經進去所以這些都是流失的我們沒有備份就對了\n\n11\n00:03:31,262 --> 00:03:50,788\n這個長盛醫院有沒有備份的話,我們還要再去調查,但是一般我們...這樣子的話你們的速度有點慢啦這個我希望你們趕快把這個東西來確認然後我們到底流失多少,到底有保存,有沒有備份多少,這個都要知道我們會最快速度來了解來處理\n\n12\n00:03:52,428 --> 00:04:12,373\n第二個部長另外一個就是公研院的案子公研院抄襲的問題我們總統會院長他上任之後說要自己是AI系統內閣做了一個叫做次世代的數位醫療平台公研院被爆抄襲的部分是不是就在這個預算裡面處長\n\n13\n00:04:18,606 --> 00:04:42,381\n邱委員報告,就是他現在被認為有不當引用的這個部分是在他的測試工具是不是在這個預算裡面?這個預算我們合約叫他交付的內容,這是醫療資訊標準他這個只是用來測試這些標準的工具所以並不是我們在合約內的交付內容所以你請顧議員做的是什麼?\n\n14\n00:04:44,656 --> 00:05:05,118\n公園院就是用這個美國的一個開源的工具開源的工具他是鼓勵大家用的只是他的引用的話是沒有符合社群的規範他後來改了那個吹哨者講出來之後你們就改了嘛你們改了之後但還是沒有符合他的規定啊連原始碼都一模一樣\n\n15\n00:05:07,100 --> 00:05:34,010\n對因為他就是這個我們相當專業所以這個我們第一個時間就嚴正要求公園院一定要用最好的標準去做那我們也找了這個美國律師那他說總共要做四件事情我們都做了第一件事情三十天之內要更正第二件事情我現在講的就是說人家好心提醒你們這可能有涉這個侵權或抄襲的問題公園院更厲害直接就開啟了追殺模式這等一下再講就是說我們先請教部長\n\n16\n00:05:35,450 --> 00:06:02,419\n這個專案的合約是衛福部要工研院自己去設計的這個CQL嗎還是衛福部在合約裡面就同意工研院去用別人的東西這兩種的價錢就會差很多那個處長回答一下這個是因為要全世界要接軌電子兵力接軌所以我們就是統一用這個美國開發的開源工具這樣所以你就是當初就是同意工研院去做這個所以大家都要這麼做這個國都要這麼做對\n\n17\n00:06:05,806 --> 00:06:17,800\n這已經我想工業業被說抄襲不是第一次了那我們現在要講的就是說我們在驗收或者是在付款的時候我剛剛知道這部分剛剛我講那個次數代數位醫療平台\n\n18\n00:06:25,069 --> 00:06:28,090\n那113年是5億3,325萬那114年是3億7千萬這8億多的經費來做這些事情當然不單單是這一項那我想我們怎麼驗收\n\n19\n00:06:41,149 --> 00:07:07,523\n所以這個我們現在驗收是標準不過這一次的一個經驗我想我們有很多要再提升加強的部分所以像這個開源軟體是一個專門的知識所以我們會來成立一個這樣的一個專門的一個驗收SOP請國內的莊家來幫助我們建立這樣的一個機制讓大家以後用國人用的東西都是要確保沒有這些相關的一個疑慮那你們有跟那個工程師道歉嗎前面還是鎖了他的權限\n\n20\n00:07:08,683 --> 00:07:35,893\n對不對那後來我看你們的報告裡面置之不提對因為那個是公園院他現在被封鎖那個東西不是在交付給合約裡面要交付給衛福部的東西衛福部交付的東西是CQL程式跟這個台灣核心資料群這個都鎖在我們衛福部主機只有一個人有密碼所以這個部分是沒有對任何人封鎖全部公開的那公園院自己開發的工具封鎖人家我現在是講和工程師的事\n\n21\n00:07:35,913 --> 00:07:49,278\n所以我們原政要求供應院一定要正式來負責任來處理這件事情我希望看到好的結果啦那最後一個我再問部長我們這個關於矯正機關的醫療經費問題我看到你們3月26號健保會的會議記錄其中一個討論事項是健保署實署長\n\n22\n00:07:57,481 --> 00:08:01,667\n要把原來留給罕病的這個藥費預備金留給矯正機關預算去補不足的2500萬元這個部長要求的嗎這是部長要求的嗎\n\n23\n00:08:10,735 --> 00:08:28,207\n這個我想我們尊重健保署去在因為今年的一個健保的總額比較在真的我知道啦我知道比較多提升進到矯正機關服務的壓力也很大我們也知道健保會的委員都知道也不會有人反對你們去\n\n24\n00:08:29,088 --> 00:08:56,969\n要多一點經費去保障健保點子1.1元但是一開始協商的時候我的重點是你們沒有提出來本來就規定不得流用的這個部分你們也沒有按照規定來走這是從其他預算裡面的預備款的性質來結議來支應所以當然我們健保署提出這個當初他有講說不能去做流用嗎這個是不是副處長你可以回答一下\n\n25\n00:08:57,699 --> 00:09:21,150\n委員謝謝關心那我們來補充這個事情的狀況事實上是因為在這幾年的修法不管是在詐騙還是酒駕累犯還是毒品的累犯的定義的關係所以在矯正機關的人數所需要的醫療不管是人數人次還是費用都有所增長所以在一開始在核定這個矯正機關的醫療費用的時候核定的比後來需要使用的還要低\n\n26\n00:09:23,592 --> 00:09:34,126\n你們給錢給他們我是希望你們把這個以後要用的錢一次編足不要這樣子流用這樣流用程序上本來就是不合規定那再來當然就是我們矯正機關裡面他們每一次的那個\n\n27\n00:09:41,074 --> 00:10:05,277\n衛生環境非常的差那當然你們也有反應反應給法務部要編預算嘛那法務部但是他也拒絕那我是希望你們持續溝通啦因為矯正署的環境不改善醫療費用就會一直增加好不好部長可以嗎可以可以我們繼續溝通對啦不然這樣子我們一直墊錢也不是辦法能夠省還是要省下來好不好是的是的好謝謝好薛委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10095\t12376\t主席好 我們一樣請邱部長委員好 部長好我還是剛剛的問題 剛剛我看劉建國委員有問這個問題就是資安署成立的時候我們蔡英文總統說要打造最強的資安國家隊每次說要推國家隊到後來就發生一些問題 一堆問題\n34562\t52283\t那我們剛剛都有把這個細節都講了那我還是要問我們這第三起的這個長盛醫院又被攻擊那傳出來是8萬多筆的資料那但是我們資安業者有揭露他們的調查結果\n53445\t54786\t我們現在部裡面掌握的是不是這樣子\n74102\t77807\t今天早上已經有比較詳細的報告過了至於說這家地區醫院的一個狀況是不是請我們處長跟委員報告一下\n85307\t101776\t那看委員報告,就是這個我們一開始八萬就有掌握了,然後那資安業者講的是三萬比的,後來講這些呢?這個東西現在就是它的主要單位都已經報給刑事局、調查局在處理,它現在不是我們的業管單位好,那你們現在,我現在就問,你們現在要怎麼處理這個東西?怎麼樣加強?\n105282\t122863\t因為他不是我們法尊裡面的夜滾單位所以我們就是把這些工具好譬如說他們需要我們治安專家需要我們的這些SOP我們都可以給他支援但是基於這個調查防範的話那這是由調查局對 我想要問你我們以後怎麼保護這些資料呢\n126029\t139559\t我想我們已經有SOP對特別是重要的關鍵60家的關鍵型的醫院剛剛我聽劉建國委員講的因為有很多委外的一些單位你們研判有可能從這邊露出對不對\n141481\t165877\t那你以後要怎麼樣去防範這樣的一個問題醫院畢竟沒有辦法完全封閉的資訊他要跟外面有一些連結所以這個部分我今天講這個問題就只有兩個重點第一個你以未來怎麼防範第二個就是我們現在外流的資料我們要怎麼處理他們有沒有研判過有沒有討論過他盜取這個資料是要做什麼\n167665\t195139\t我想委員問的這兩個都很重要的議題,我想是不是處長回應一下好,那第一個就是未來的防範的話,就是我們要來跟治安署來討論怎麼樣擴大來保護我們非關鍵技術措施的醫院因為全國有四五百家,這是一個相當龐大的工程那這個一定會去跟他研議一個方法那我想盡快啦好不好,這個也不要再講那麼多,那未來已經流出的資料怎麼處理呢?\n196596\t208704\t已經流出這個資料的話那這個就是說他們一般就是要勒索就是勒索的意思就是說如果你沒有付錢的話他就資料不會還給你這樣子所以這個都已經進去所以這些都是流失的我們沒有備份就對了\n211262\t230788\t這個長盛醫院有沒有備份的話,我們還要再去調查,但是一般我們...這樣子的話你們的速度有點慢啦這個我希望你們趕快把這個東西來確認然後我們到底流失多少,到底有保存,有沒有備份多少,這個都要知道我們會最快速度來了解來處理\n232428\t252373\t第二個部長另外一個就是公研院的案子公研院抄襲的問題我們總統會院長他上任之後說要自己是AI系統內閣做了一個叫做次世代的數位醫療平台公研院被爆抄襲的部分是不是就在這個預算裡面處長\n258606\t282381\t邱委員報告,就是他現在被認為有不當引用的這個部分是在他的測試工具是不是在這個預算裡面?這個預算我們合約叫他交付的內容,這是醫療資訊標準他這個只是用來測試這些標準的工具所以並不是我們在合約內的交付內容所以你請顧議員做的是什麼?\n284656\t305118\t公園院就是用這個美國的一個開源的工具開源的工具他是鼓勵大家用的只是他的引用的話是沒有符合社群的規範他後來改了那個吹哨者講出來之後你們就改了嘛你們改了之後但還是沒有符合他的規定啊連原始碼都一模一樣\n307100\t334010\t對 因為他就是這個我們相當專業所以這個我們第一個時間就嚴正要求公園院一定要用最好的標準去做那我們也找了這個美國律師那他說總共要做四件事情我們都做了第一件事情三十天之內要更正第二件事情我現在講的就是說人家好心提醒你們這可能有涉這個侵權或抄襲的問題公園院更厲害直接就開啟了追殺模式這等一下再講就是說我們先請教部長\n335450\t362419\t這個專案的合約是衛福部要工研院自己去設計的這個CQL嗎還是衛福部在合約裡面就同意工研院去用別人的東西這兩種的價錢就會差很多那個處長回答一下這個是因為要全世界要接軌電子兵力接軌所以我們就是統一用這個美國開發的開源工具這樣所以你就是當初就是同意工研院去做這個所以大家都要這麼做這個國都要這麼做 對\n365806\t377800\t這已經我想工業業被說抄襲不是第一次了那我們現在要講的就是說我們在驗收或者是在付款的時候我剛剛知道這部分剛剛我講那個次數代數位醫療平台\n385069\t388090\t那113年是5億3,325萬那114年是3億7千萬這8億多的經費來做這些事情當然不單單是這一項那我想我們怎麼驗收\n401149\t427523\t所以這個我們現在驗收是標準不過這一次的一個經驗我想我們有很多要再提升加強的部分所以像這個開源軟體是一個專門的知識所以我們會來成立一個這樣的一個專門的一個驗收SOP請國內的莊家來幫助我們建立這樣的一個機制讓大家以後用國人用的東西都是要確保沒有這些相關的一個疑慮那你們有跟那個工程師道歉嗎前面還是鎖了他的權限\n428683\t455893\t對不對那後來我看你們的報告裡面置之不提對因為那個是公園院他現在被封鎖那個東西不是在交付給合約裡面要交付給衛福部的東西衛福部交付的東西是CQL程式跟這個台灣核心資料群這個都鎖在我們衛福部主機只有一個人有密碼所以這個部分是沒有對任何人封鎖全部公開的那公園院自己開發的工具封鎖人家我現在是講和工程師的事\n455913\t469278\t所以我們原政要求供應院一定要正式來負責任來處理這件事情我希望看到好的結果啦那最後一個我再問部長我們這個關於矯正機關的醫療經費問題我看到你們3月26號健保會的會議記錄其中一個討論事項是健保署實署長\n477481\t481667\t要把原來留給罕病的這個藥費預備金留給矯正機關預算去補不足的2500萬元這個部長要求的嗎這是部長要求的嗎\n490735\t508207\t這個我想我們尊重健保署去在因為今年的一個健保的總額比較在真的我知道啦我知道比較多提升進到矯正機關服務的壓力也很大我們也知道健保會的委員都知道也不會有人反對你們去\n509088\t536969\t要多一點經費去保障健保點子1.1元但是一開始協商的時候我的重點是你們沒有提出來本來就規定不得流用的這個部分你們也沒有按照規定來走這是從其他預算裡面的預備款的性質來結議來支應所以當然我們健保署提出這個當初他有講說不能去做流用嗎這個是不是副處長你可以回答一下\n537699\t561150\t委員謝謝關心那我們來補充這個事情的狀況事實上是因為在這幾年的修法不管是在詐騙還是酒駕累犯還是毒品的累犯的定義的關係所以在矯正機關的人數所需要的醫療不管是人數人次還是費用都有所增長所以在一開始在核定這個矯正機關的醫療費用的時候核定的比後來需要使用的還要低\n563592\t574126\t你們給錢給他們我是希望你們把這個以後要用的錢一次編足不要這樣子流用這樣流用程序上本來就是不合規定那再來當然就是我們矯正機關裡面他們每一次的那個\n581074\t605277\t衛生環境非常的差那當然你們也有反應反應給法務部要編預算嘛那法務部但是他也拒絕那我是希望你們持續溝通啦因為矯正署的環境不改善醫療費用就會一直增加好不好部長可以嗎可以可以 我們繼續溝通對啦 不然這樣子我們一直墊錢也不是辦法能夠省還是要省下來好不好是的 是的好 謝謝好 薛委員 謝謝\n","txt":"主席好 我們一樣請邱部長委員好 部長好我還是剛剛的問題 剛剛我看劉建國委員有問這個問題就是資安署成立的時候我們蔡英文總統說要打造最強的資安國家隊每次說要推國家隊到後來就發生一些問題 一堆問題\n那我們剛剛都有把這個細節都講了那我還是要問我們這第三起的這個長盛醫院又被攻擊那傳出來是8萬多筆的資料那但是我們資安業者有揭露他們的調查結果\n我們現在部裡面掌握的是不是這樣子\n今天早上已經有比較詳細的報告過了至於說這家地區醫院的一個狀況是不是請我們處長跟委員報告一下\n那看委員報告,就是這個我們一開始八萬就有掌握了,然後那資安業者講的是三萬比的,後來講這些呢?這個東西現在就是它的主要單位都已經報給刑事局、調查局在處理,它現在不是我們的業管單位好,那你們現在,我現在就問,你們現在要怎麼處理這個東西?怎麼樣加強?\n因為他不是我們法尊裡面的夜滾單位所以我們就是把這些工具好譬如說他們需要我們治安專家需要我們的這些SOP我們都可以給他支援但是基於這個調查防範的話那這是由調查局對 我想要問你我們以後怎麼保護這些資料呢\n我想我們已經有SOP對特別是重要的關鍵60家的關鍵型的醫院剛剛我聽劉建國委員講的因為有很多委外的一些單位你們研判有可能從這邊露出對不對\n那你以後要怎麼樣去防範這樣的一個問題醫院畢竟沒有辦法完全封閉的資訊他要跟外面有一些連結所以這個部分我今天講這個問題就只有兩個重點第一個你以未來怎麼防範第二個就是我們現在外流的資料我們要怎麼處理他們有沒有研判過有沒有討論過他盜取這個資料是要做什麼\n我想委員問的這兩個都很重要的議題,我想是不是處長回應一下好,那第一個就是未來的防範的話,就是我們要來跟治安署來討論怎麼樣擴大來保護我們非關鍵技術措施的醫院因為全國有四五百家,這是一個相當龐大的工程那這個一定會去跟他研議一個方法那我想盡快啦好不好,這個也不要再講那麼多,那未來已經流出的資料怎麼處理呢?\n已經流出這個資料的話那這個就是說他們一般就是要勒索就是勒索的意思就是說如果你沒有付錢的話他就資料不會還給你這樣子所以這個都已經進去所以這些都是流失的我們沒有備份就對了\n這個長盛醫院有沒有備份的話,我們還要再去調查,但是一般我們...這樣子的話你們的速度有點慢啦這個我希望你們趕快把這個東西來確認然後我們到底流失多少,到底有保存,有沒有備份多少,這個都要知道我們會最快速度來了解來處理\n第二個部長另外一個就是公研院的案子公研院抄襲的問題我們總統會院長他上任之後說要自己是AI系統內閣做了一個叫做次世代的數位醫療平台公研院被爆抄襲的部分是不是就在這個預算裡面處長\n邱委員報告,就是他現在被認為有不當引用的這個部分是在他的測試工具是不是在這個預算裡面?這個預算我們合約叫他交付的內容,這是醫療資訊標準他這個只是用來測試這些標準的工具所以並不是我們在合約內的交付內容所以你請顧議員做的是什麼?\n公園院就是用這個美國的一個開源的工具開源的工具他是鼓勵大家用的只是他的引用的話是沒有符合社群的規範他後來改了那個吹哨者講出來之後你們就改了嘛你們改了之後但還是沒有符合他的規定啊連原始碼都一模一樣\n對 因為他就是這個我們相當專業所以這個我們第一個時間就嚴正要求公園院一定要用最好的標準去做那我們也找了這個美國律師那他說總共要做四件事情我們都做了第一件事情三十天之內要更正第二件事情我現在講的就是說人家好心提醒你們這可能有涉這個侵權或抄襲的問題公園院更厲害直接就開啟了追殺模式這等一下再講就是說我們先請教部長\n這個專案的合約是衛福部要工研院自己去設計的這個CQL嗎還是衛福部在合約裡面就同意工研院去用別人的東西這兩種的價錢就會差很多那個處長回答一下這個是因為要全世界要接軌電子兵力接軌所以我們就是統一用這個美國開發的開源工具這樣所以你就是當初就是同意工研院去做這個所以大家都要這麼做這個國都要這麼做 對\n這已經我想工業業被說抄襲不是第一次了那我們現在要講的就是說我們在驗收或者是在付款的時候我剛剛知道這部分剛剛我講那個次數代數位醫療平台\n那113年是5億3,325萬那114年是3億7千萬這8億多的經費來做這些事情當然不單單是這一項那我想我們怎麼驗收\n所以這個我們現在驗收是標準不過這一次的一個經驗我想我們有很多要再提升加強的部分所以像這個開源軟體是一個專門的知識所以我們會來成立一個這樣的一個專門的一個驗收SOP請國內的莊家來幫助我們建立這樣的一個機制讓大家以後用國人用的東西都是要確保沒有這些相關的一個疑慮那你們有跟那個工程師道歉嗎前面還是鎖了他的權限\n對不對那後來我看你們的報告裡面置之不提對因為那個是公園院他現在被封鎖那個東西不是在交付給合約裡面要交付給衛福部的東西衛福部交付的東西是CQL程式跟這個台灣核心資料群這個都鎖在我們衛福部主機只有一個人有密碼所以這個部分是沒有對任何人封鎖全部公開的那公園院自己開發的工具封鎖人家我現在是講和工程師的事\n所以我們原政要求供應院一定要正式來負責任來處理這件事情我希望看到好的結果啦那最後一個我再問部長我們這個關於矯正機關的醫療經費問題我看到你們3月26號健保會的會議記錄其中一個討論事項是健保署實署長\n要把原來留給罕病的這個藥費預備金留給矯正機關預算去補不足的2500萬元這個部長要求的嗎這是部長要求的嗎\n這個我想我們尊重健保署去在因為今年的一個健保的總額比較在真的我知道啦我知道比較多提升進到矯正機關服務的壓力也很大我們也知道健保會的委員都知道也不會有人反對你們去\n要多一點經費去保障健保點子1.1元但是一開始協商的時候我的重點是你們沒有提出來本來就規定不得流用的這個部分你們也沒有按照規定來走這是從其他預算裡面的預備款的性質來結議來支應所以當然我們健保署提出這個當初他有講說不能去做流用嗎這個是不是副處長你可以回答一下\n委員謝謝關心那我們來補充這個事情的狀況事實上是因為在這幾年的修法不管是在詐騙還是酒駕累犯還是毒品的累犯的定義的關係所以在矯正機關的人數所需要的醫療不管是人數人次還是費用都有所增長所以在一開始在核定這個矯正機關的醫療費用的時候核定的比後來需要使用的還要低\n你們給錢給他們我是希望你們把這個以後要用的錢一次編足不要這樣子流用這樣流用程序上本來就是不合規定那再來當然就是我們矯正機關裡面他們每一次的那個\n衛生環境非常的差那當然你們也有反應反應給法務部要編預算嘛那法務部但是他也拒絕那我是希望你們持續溝通啦因為矯正署的環境不改善醫療費用就會一直增加好不好部長可以嗎可以可以 我們繼續溝通對啦 不然這樣子我們一直墊錢也不是辦法能夠省還是要省下來好不好是的 是的好 謝謝好 薛委員 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.095 --> 00:12.376\n主席好我們一樣請邱部長委員好部長好我還是剛剛的問題剛剛我看劉建國委員有問這個問題就是資安署成立的時候我們蔡英文總統說要打造最強的資安國家隊每次說要推國家隊到後來就發生一些問題一堆問題\n\n00:34.562 --> 00:52.283\n那我們剛剛都有把這個細節都講了那我還是要問我們這第三起的這個長盛醫院又被攻擊那傳出來是8萬多筆的資料那但是我們資安業者有揭露他們的調查結果\n\n00:53.445 --> 00:54.786\n我們現在部裡面掌握的是不是這樣子\n\n01:14.102 --> 01:17.807\n今天早上已經有比較詳細的報告過了至於說這家地區醫院的一個狀況是不是請我們處長跟委員報告一下\n\n01:25.307 --> 01:41.776\n那看委員報告,就是這個我們一開始八萬就有掌握了,然後那資安業者講的是三萬比的,後來講這些呢?這個東西現在就是它的主要單位都已經報給刑事局、調查局在處理,它現在不是我們的業管單位好,那你們現在,我現在就問,你們現在要怎麼處理這個東西?怎麼樣加強?\n\n01:45.282 --> 02:02.863\n因為他不是我們法尊裡面的夜滾單位所以我們就是把這些工具好譬如說他們需要我們治安專家需要我們的這些SOP我們都可以給他支援但是基於這個調查防範的話那這是由調查局對我想要問你我們以後怎麼保護這些資料呢\n\n02:06.029 --> 02:19.559\n我想我們已經有SOP對特別是重要的關鍵60家的關鍵型的醫院剛剛我聽劉建國委員講的因為有很多委外的一些單位你們研判有可能從這邊露出對不對\n\n02:21.481 --> 02:45.877\n那你以後要怎麼樣去防範這樣的一個問題醫院畢竟沒有辦法完全封閉的資訊他要跟外面有一些連結所以這個部分我今天講這個問題就只有兩個重點第一個你以未來怎麼防範第二個就是我們現在外流的資料我們要怎麼處理他們有沒有研判過有沒有討論過他盜取這個資料是要做什麼\n\n02:47.665 --> 03:15.139\n我想委員問的這兩個都很重要的議題,我想是不是處長回應一下好,那第一個就是未來的防範的話,就是我們要來跟治安署來討論怎麼樣擴大來保護我們非關鍵技術措施的醫院因為全國有四五百家,這是一個相當龐大的工程那這個一定會去跟他研議一個方法那我想盡快啦好不好,這個也不要再講那麼多,那未來已經流出的資料怎麼處理呢?\n\n03:16.596 --> 03:28.704\n已經流出這個資料的話那這個就是說他們一般就是要勒索就是勒索的意思就是說如果你沒有付錢的話他就資料不會還給你這樣子所以這個都已經進去所以這些都是流失的我們沒有備份就對了\n\n03:31.262 --> 03:50.788\n這個長盛醫院有沒有備份的話,我們還要再去調查,但是一般我們...這樣子的話你們的速度有點慢啦這個我希望你們趕快把這個東西來確認然後我們到底流失多少,到底有保存,有沒有備份多少,這個都要知道我們會最快速度來了解來處理\n\n03:52.428 --> 04:12.373\n第二個部長另外一個就是公研院的案子公研院抄襲的問題我們總統會院長他上任之後說要自己是AI系統內閣做了一個叫做次世代的數位醫療平台公研院被爆抄襲的部分是不是就在這個預算裡面處長\n\n04:18.606 --> 04:42.381\n邱委員報告,就是他現在被認為有不當引用的這個部分是在他的測試工具是不是在這個預算裡面?這個預算我們合約叫他交付的內容,這是醫療資訊標準他這個只是用來測試這些標準的工具所以並不是我們在合約內的交付內容所以你請顧議員做的是什麼?\n\n04:44.656 --> 05:05.118\n公園院就是用這個美國的一個開源的工具開源的工具他是鼓勵大家用的只是他的引用的話是沒有符合社群的規範他後來改了那個吹哨者講出來之後你們就改了嘛你們改了之後但還是沒有符合他的規定啊連原始碼都一模一樣\n\n05:07.100 --> 05:34.010\n對因為他就是這個我們相當專業所以這個我們第一個時間就嚴正要求公園院一定要用最好的標準去做那我們也找了這個美國律師那他說總共要做四件事情我們都做了第一件事情三十天之內要更正第二件事情我現在講的就是說人家好心提醒你們這可能有涉這個侵權或抄襲的問題公園院更厲害直接就開啟了追殺模式這等一下再講就是說我們先請教部長\n\n05:35.450 --> 06:02.419\n這個專案的合約是衛福部要工研院自己去設計的這個CQL嗎還是衛福部在合約裡面就同意工研院去用別人的東西這兩種的價錢就會差很多那個處長回答一下這個是因為要全世界要接軌電子兵力接軌所以我們就是統一用這個美國開發的開源工具這樣所以你就是當初就是同意工研院去做這個所以大家都要這麼做這個國都要這麼做對\n\n06:05.806 --> 06:17.800\n這已經我想工業業被說抄襲不是第一次了那我們現在要講的就是說我們在驗收或者是在付款的時候我剛剛知道這部分剛剛我講那個次數代數位醫療平台\n\n06:25.069 --> 06:28.090\n那113年是5億3,325萬那114年是3億7千萬這8億多的經費來做這些事情當然不單單是這一項那我想我們怎麼驗收\n\n06:41.149 --> 07:07.523\n所以這個我們現在驗收是標準不過這一次的一個經驗我想我們有很多要再提升加強的部分所以像這個開源軟體是一個專門的知識所以我們會來成立一個這樣的一個專門的一個驗收SOP請國內的莊家來幫助我們建立這樣的一個機制讓大家以後用國人用的東西都是要確保沒有這些相關的一個疑慮那你們有跟那個工程師道歉嗎前面還是鎖了他的權限\n\n07:08.683 --> 07:35.893\n對不對那後來我看你們的報告裡面置之不提對因為那個是公園院他現在被封鎖那個東西不是在交付給合約裡面要交付給衛福部的東西衛福部交付的東西是CQL程式跟這個台灣核心資料群這個都鎖在我們衛福部主機只有一個人有密碼所以這個部分是沒有對任何人封鎖全部公開的那公園院自己開發的工具封鎖人家我現在是講和工程師的事\n\n07:35.913 --> 07:49.278\n所以我們原政要求供應院一定要正式來負責任來處理這件事情我希望看到好的結果啦那最後一個我再問部長我們這個關於矯正機關的醫療經費問題我看到你們3月26號健保會的會議記錄其中一個討論事項是健保署實署長\n\n07:57.481 --> 08:01.667\n要把原來留給罕病的這個藥費預備金留給矯正機關預算去補不足的2500萬元這個部長要求的嗎這是部長要求的嗎\n\n08:10.735 --> 08:28.207\n這個我想我們尊重健保署去在因為今年的一個健保的總額比較在真的我知道啦我知道比較多提升進到矯正機關服務的壓力也很大我們也知道健保會的委員都知道也不會有人反對你們去\n\n08:29.088 --> 08:56.969\n要多一點經費去保障健保點子1.1元但是一開始協商的時候我的重點是你們沒有提出來本來就規定不得流用的這個部分你們也沒有按照規定來走這是從其他預算裡面的預備款的性質來結議來支應所以當然我們健保署提出這個當初他有講說不能去做流用嗎這個是不是副處長你可以回答一下\n\n08:57.699 --> 09:21.150\n委員謝謝關心那我們來補充這個事情的狀況事實上是因為在這幾年的修法不管是在詐騙還是酒駕累犯還是毒品的累犯的定義的關係所以在矯正機關的人數所需要的醫療不管是人數人次還是費用都有所增長所以在一開始在核定這個矯正機關的醫療費用的時候核定的比後來需要使用的還要低\n\n09:23.592 --> 09:34.126\n你們給錢給他們我是希望你們把這個以後要用的錢一次編足不要這樣子流用這樣流用程序上本來就是不合規定那再來當然就是我們矯正機關裡面他們每一次的那個\n\n09:41.074 --> 10:05.277\n衛生環境非常的差那當然你們也有反應反應給法務部要編預算嘛那法務部但是他也拒絕那我是希望你們持續溝通啦因為矯正署的環境不改善醫療費用就會一直增加好不好部長可以嗎可以可以我們繼續溝通對啦不然這樣子我們一直墊錢也不是辦法能夠省還是要省下來好不好是的是的好謝謝好薛委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.095,"end":12.376,"text":"主席好 我們一樣請邱部長委員好 部長好我還是剛剛的問題 剛剛我看劉建國委員有問這個問題就是資安署成立的時候我們蔡英文總統說要打造最強的資安國家隊每次說要推國家隊到後來就發生一些問題 一堆問題"},{"start":34.562,"end":52.283,"text":"那我們剛剛都有把這個細節都講了那我還是要問我們這第三起的這個長盛醫院又被攻擊那傳出來是8萬多筆的資料那但是我們資安業者有揭露他們的調查結果"},{"start":53.445,"end":54.786,"text":"我們現在部裡面掌握的是不是這樣子"},{"start":74.102,"end":77.807,"text":"今天早上已經有比較詳細的報告過了至於說這家地區醫院的一個狀況是不是請我們處長跟委員報告一下"},{"start":85.307,"end":101.776,"text":"那看委員報告,就是這個我們一開始八萬就有掌握了,然後那資安業者講的是三萬比的,後來講這些呢?這個東西現在就是它的主要單位都已經報給刑事局、調查局在處理,它現在不是我們的業管單位好,那你們現在,我現在就問,你們現在要怎麼處理這個東西?怎麼樣加強?"},{"start":105.282,"end":122.863,"text":"因為他不是我們法尊裡面的夜滾單位所以我們就是把這些工具好譬如說他們需要我們治安專家需要我們的這些SOP我們都可以給他支援但是基於這個調查防範的話那這是由調查局對 我想要問你我們以後怎麼保護這些資料呢"},{"start":126.029,"end":139.559,"text":"我想我們已經有SOP對特別是重要的關鍵60家的關鍵型的醫院剛剛我聽劉建國委員講的因為有很多委外的一些單位你們研判有可能從這邊露出對不對"},{"start":141.481,"end":165.877,"text":"那你以後要怎麼樣去防範這樣的一個問題醫院畢竟沒有辦法完全封閉的資訊他要跟外面有一些連結所以這個部分我今天講這個問題就只有兩個重點第一個你以未來怎麼防範第二個就是我們現在外流的資料我們要怎麼處理他們有沒有研判過有沒有討論過他盜取這個資料是要做什麼"},{"start":167.665,"end":195.139,"text":"我想委員問的這兩個都很重要的議題,我想是不是處長回應一下好,那第一個就是未來的防範的話,就是我們要來跟治安署來討論怎麼樣擴大來保護我們非關鍵技術措施的醫院因為全國有四五百家,這是一個相當龐大的工程那這個一定會去跟他研議一個方法那我想盡快啦好不好,這個也不要再講那麼多,那未來已經流出的資料怎麼處理呢?"},{"start":196.596,"end":208.704,"text":"已經流出這個資料的話那這個就是說他們一般就是要勒索就是勒索的意思就是說如果你沒有付錢的話他就資料不會還給你這樣子所以這個都已經進去所以這些都是流失的我們沒有備份就對了"},{"start":211.262,"end":230.788,"text":"這個長盛醫院有沒有備份的話,我們還要再去調查,但是一般我們...這樣子的話你們的速度有點慢啦這個我希望你們趕快把這個東西來確認然後我們到底流失多少,到底有保存,有沒有備份多少,這個都要知道我們會最快速度來了解來處理"},{"start":232.428,"end":252.373,"text":"第二個部長另外一個就是公研院的案子公研院抄襲的問題我們總統會院長他上任之後說要自己是AI系統內閣做了一個叫做次世代的數位醫療平台公研院被爆抄襲的部分是不是就在這個預算裡面處長"},{"start":258.606,"end":282.381,"text":"邱委員報告,就是他現在被認為有不當引用的這個部分是在他的測試工具是不是在這個預算裡面?這個預算我們合約叫他交付的內容,這是醫療資訊標準他這個只是用來測試這些標準的工具所以並不是我們在合約內的交付內容所以你請顧議員做的是什麼?"},{"start":284.656,"end":305.118,"text":"公園院就是用這個美國的一個開源的工具開源的工具他是鼓勵大家用的只是他的引用的話是沒有符合社群的規範他後來改了那個吹哨者講出來之後你們就改了嘛你們改了之後但還是沒有符合他的規定啊連原始碼都一模一樣"},{"start":307.1,"end":334.01,"text":"對 因為他就是這個我們相當專業所以這個我們第一個時間就嚴正要求公園院一定要用最好的標準去做那我們也找了這個美國律師那他說總共要做四件事情我們都做了第一件事情三十天之內要更正第二件事情我現在講的就是說人家好心提醒你們這可能有涉這個侵權或抄襲的問題公園院更厲害直接就開啟了追殺模式這等一下再講就是說我們先請教部長"},{"start":335.45,"end":362.419,"text":"這個專案的合約是衛福部要工研院自己去設計的這個CQL嗎還是衛福部在合約裡面就同意工研院去用別人的東西這兩種的價錢就會差很多那個處長回答一下這個是因為要全世界要接軌電子兵力接軌所以我們就是統一用這個美國開發的開源工具這樣所以你就是當初就是同意工研院去做這個所以大家都要這麼做這個國都要這麼做 對"},{"start":365.806,"end":377.8,"text":"這已經我想工業業被說抄襲不是第一次了那我們現在要講的就是說我們在驗收或者是在付款的時候我剛剛知道這部分剛剛我講那個次數代數位醫療平台"},{"start":385.069,"end":388.09,"text":"那113年是5億3,325萬那114年是3億7千萬這8億多的經費來做這些事情當然不單單是這一項那我想我們怎麼驗收"},{"start":401.149,"end":427.523,"text":"所以這個我們現在驗收是標準不過這一次的一個經驗我想我們有很多要再提升加強的部分所以像這個開源軟體是一個專門的知識所以我們會來成立一個這樣的一個專門的一個驗收SOP請國內的莊家來幫助我們建立這樣的一個機制讓大家以後用國人用的東西都是要確保沒有這些相關的一個疑慮那你們有跟那個工程師道歉嗎前面還是鎖了他的權限"},{"start":428.683,"end":455.893,"text":"對不對那後來我看你們的報告裡面置之不提對因為那個是公園院他現在被封鎖那個東西不是在交付給合約裡面要交付給衛福部的東西衛福部交付的東西是CQL程式跟這個台灣核心資料群這個都鎖在我們衛福部主機只有一個人有密碼所以這個部分是沒有對任何人封鎖全部公開的那公園院自己開發的工具封鎖人家我現在是講和工程師的事"},{"start":455.913,"end":469.278,"text":"所以我們原政要求供應院一定要正式來負責任來處理這件事情我希望看到好的結果啦那最後一個我再問部長我們這個關於矯正機關的醫療經費問題我看到你們3月26號健保會的會議記錄其中一個討論事項是健保署實署長"},{"start":477.481,"end":481.667,"text":"要把原來留給罕病的這個藥費預備金留給矯正機關預算去補不足的2500萬元這個部長要求的嗎這是部長要求的嗎"},{"start":490.735,"end":508.207,"text":"這個我想我們尊重健保署去在因為今年的一個健保的總額比較在真的我知道啦我知道比較多提升進到矯正機關服務的壓力也很大我們也知道健保會的委員都知道也不會有人反對你們去"},{"start":509.088,"end":536.969,"text":"要多一點經費去保障健保點子1.1元但是一開始協商的時候我的重點是你們沒有提出來本來就規定不得流用的這個部分你們也沒有按照規定來走這是從其他預算裡面的預備款的性質來結議來支應所以當然我們健保署提出這個當初他有講說不能去做流用嗎這個是不是副處長你可以回答一下"},{"start":537.699,"end":561.15,"text":"委員謝謝關心那我們來補充這個事情的狀況事實上是因為在這幾年的修法不管是在詐騙還是酒駕累犯還是毒品的累犯的定義的關係所以在矯正機關的人數所需要的醫療不管是人數人次還是費用都有所增長所以在一開始在核定這個矯正機關的醫療費用的時候核定的比後來需要使用的還要低"},{"start":563.592,"end":574.126,"text":"你們給錢給他們我是希望你們把這個以後要用的錢一次編足不要這樣子流用這樣流用程序上本來就是不合規定那再來當然就是我們矯正機關裡面他們每一次的那個"},{"start":581.074,"end":605.277,"text":"衛生環境非常的差那當然你們也有反應反應給法務部要編預算嘛那法務部但是他也拒絕那我是希望你們持續溝通啦因為矯正署的環境不改善醫療費用就會一直增加好不好部長可以嗎可以可以 我們繼續溝通對啦 不然這樣子我們一直墊錢也不是辦法能夠省還是要省下來好不好是的 是的好 謝謝好 薛委員 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":535,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時24分）主席好，我們一樣請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好。我還是剛剛的問題，剛剛我看劉建國委員有問這個問題，就是資安署成立的時候，蔡英文總統說要打造最強的資安國家隊，但每次推國家隊，到後來都發生一堆問題。剛剛已經把細節都講了，但我還是要問，遭受第三起資安攻擊的長慎醫院傳出有八萬多筆資料受影響，但是資安業者有揭露他們的調查結果，說駭客聲稱他們握有13萬張含有病徵和個資的醫療影像、10萬份電子病歷的文件，還有數百萬筆實驗室X光、CT、MRI的紀錄，請問現在部裡面掌握的是不是這樣子？"],["邱部長泰源：今天早上已經有比較詳細地報告過了，至於這家地區醫院的狀況，是否請我們的處長跟委員報告一下？"],["李處長建璋：跟委員報告，其實這個一開始的8萬我們就有掌握了，然後……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那資安業者後來講的13萬筆這些呢？你們有……"],["李處長建璋：這個東西現在就是它的主要單位都已經報給刑事局、調查局在處理，它現在不是我們的業管單位……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我現在就問：你們現在要怎麼處理這個東西？怎麼樣加強？"],["李處長建璋：因為它不是我們法遵裡面的業管單位，所以我們就是把這些工具，比如說他們需要我們的資安專家、需要我們的SOP，我們都可以給它支援，但是基於這個調查、防範的話，那就是由調查局跟地方衛生局……"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我想要問您：我們以後怎麼保護這些資料呢？"],["邱部長泰源：我們已經有SOP，特別對於重要的60家關鍵型醫院，我們希望……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我剛剛聽劉建國委員講，因為有很多委外的單位，你們研判有可能是從這邊漏出，對不對？那你以後要怎麼樣去防範這樣的事情？"],["邱部長泰源：醫院畢竟沒辦法完全封閉它的資訊，因為它跟外面有一些連結，所以這個部分……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我今天講這個問題只有兩個重點，第一個，你們未來怎麼防範？第二個，現在外流的資料要怎麼處理？有沒有研判或討論過他們盜取這個資料是要做什麼？"],["邱部長泰源：委員問的這兩個都是很重要的議題，是不是請處長回應一下？"],["李處長建璋：第一個是未來的防範，這部分我們會來跟資安署討論怎麼樣擴大保護非關鍵基礎設施的醫院，因為全國有四、五百家，是一個相當龐大的工程，這部分我們一定會去跟他們研議一個方法……"],["邱委員鎮軍：儘快啦，好不好？"],["李處長建璋：是！"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個也不要再講那麼多了。已經流出的資料怎麼處理呢？"],["李處長建璋：已經流出的資料，他們一般就是要勒索，意思就是如果你沒有付錢的話，資料就不會還給你。所以這都已經進入刑事調查……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以這些流失的資料並沒有備份就對了？"],["李處長建璋：長慎醫院有沒有備份，我們還要再去調查，但是關鍵基礎設施醫院都有嚴格要求備份。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這樣你們的速度有點慢！我希望你們趕快確認，到底流失多少、備份多少，這些都要知道。"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們會以最快速度來瞭解和處理。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外一個就是工研院抄襲的案子。卓榮泰院長上任之後說自己是AI系統內閣，衛福部也要建置一個次世代數位醫療平台，請問部長，工研院被爆抄襲的部分是不是就在這個預算裡面？"],["邱部長泰源：我請處長來說明。"],["李處長建璋：跟邱委員報告，現在被認為有不當引用的部分是在它的測試工具，我們在合約內……"],["邱委員鎮軍：是不是在這個預算裡面？"],["李處長建璋：這個預算……我們合約叫他交付的內容是醫療資訊標準，這個只是用來測試這些標準的工具，並不是在合約內的交付內容。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你們請工研院做的是什麼？"],["李處長建璋：工研院就是用美國的一個開源的工具……"],["邱委員鎮軍：就是抄襲他們的嘛！對不對？"],["李處長建璋：這個開源的工具是鼓勵大家用的，只是它的引用並沒有符合社群的規範。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，它後來改了。那個吹哨者講出來之後，你們就改了嘛！但是改了之後還是沒有符合它的規定，連原始碼都一模一樣耶！"],["李處長建璋：對，因為這個相當專業，所以我們第一時間就嚴正要求工研院一定要用最好的標準去做，我們也找了美國律師，他說要做的四件事情我們都做了，第一件事情是30天之內要更正，第二件事情……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我現在講的是，人家好心提醒你們這可能有涉及侵權或抄襲的問題，工研院更厲害，直接就開啟了追殺模式，這個等一下再講。我們先請教部長，這個專案的合約是衛福部要工研院自己去設計的CQL嗎？還是衛福部在合約裡面就有同意工研院去用別人的東西？這兩種價錢會差很多。"],["邱部長泰源：請處長回答。"],["李處長建璋：這是因為全世界電子病歷要接軌，所以我們就統一用美國開發的開源工具，這樣才可以對接得起來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你當初就同意工研院去用別人的東西？"],["李處長建璋：對，大家都要這麼做，各國都要這麼做。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想工研院被說抄襲不是第一次了，我現在要講的是，我們在驗收或者是在付款的時候，剛剛我講的次世代數位醫療平台113年是5億3,325萬，114年是3億7,000萬，這八億多的經費要來做這些事情，當然不單單是這一項，我們怎麼驗收？"],["李處長建璋：我們現在驗收的是標準，不過有了這一次的經驗，我想我們有很多要再提升加強的部分，像開源軟體是一個專門的知識，所以我們會成立專門驗收的SOP，請國內的專家來幫助我們建立這樣的機制，讓以後國人用的東西都能確保沒有這些相關的疑慮。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們有跟那位工程師道歉嗎？前面還是鎖了他的權限，對不對？後來我看你們的報告裡面隻字不提。"],["李處長建璋：對，因為那個是工研院，他現在被封鎖的那個東西，不是在合約裡面要交付給衛福部的東西，衛福部交付的東西是CQL程式及臺灣核心資料群，這個都鎖在我們衛福部的主機，只有一個人有密碼，所以這個部分是沒有對任何人封鎖、是全部公開的，工研院自己開發的工具封鎖人家，我們已經嚴正要求工研院一定要正式負責任地來處理這件事情，它必須為這件事情負責。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我現在講的是這個工程師的事情，我希望看到好的結果。","最後，我再請問部長，關於矯正機關的醫療經費問題，我看到你們3月26日健保會的會議紀錄，其中一個討論事項是健保署石署長要把原來留給罕病的藥費預備金，挪作矯正機關預算，去補不足的2,500萬元，這是部長要求的嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們尊重健保署，因為今年的健保總額真的比較多，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：醫生進到矯正機關服務的壓力也很大，我們也知道，健保會的委員都知道，也不會有人反對你們要多一點經費去保障健保點值1點1元，但是一開始協商的時候，我的重點是你們沒有提出來，本來就規定不得流用，你們也沒有按照規定來走。"],["邱部長泰源：這是從其他預算裡面的預備款性質的結餘來支應，所以我們健保署提出這個……"],["邱委員鎮軍：當初他有講不能去做流用。"],["邱部長泰源：這個是不是副署長可以回答一下？"],["陳副署長亮妤：委員，謝謝關心，我來補充這個事情的狀況，事實上是因為在這幾年的修法，不管是詐騙、酒駕累犯還是毒品累犯定義的關係，所以在矯正機關的人數所需要的醫療，不管是人數、人次還是費用都有所增長，一開始在核定矯正機關醫療費用的時候，核定的比後來需要使用的還要低。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我現在不是反對你們把錢給他們，我是希望你們把以後要用的錢一次編足，不要這樣子流用。"],["陳副署長亮妤：是，我們會審慎評估。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這樣流用在程序上本來就是不合規定。再來，矯正機關裡面的衛生環境非常差，當然你們也有反映給法務部要編預算，法務部拒絕，我希望你們持續溝通，因為矯正署的環境不改善，醫療費用就會一直增加，好不好？部長，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：可以，我們繼續溝通。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不然我們一直墊錢也不是辦法，能夠省還是要省下來，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員、謝謝部長。","接下來請廖偉翔委員質詢。廖委員質詢完畢後，我們休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","葛如鈞","劉建國","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","黃秀芳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","陳菁徽","盧縣一","李坤城","陳培瑜","張雅琳","莊瑞雄","楊曜","陳瑩","林楚茵","林德福"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、財政部次長就「國家社會福利政策財源檢討及偏鄉兒童發展篩檢執行情\n形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00004"}}}