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\"他又自行在外包或者是他不具實以告他那個部分已經牽涉到道德層面的問題已經不是法律能夠規範的了所以我認為我們在補助的項目上就盡量完整並且再把這個案例通知大家跟他說像這樣的案例仍然對我們來說是有問題的我們會受到質疑會影響到他未來的資格\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 366.704, \"end\": 366.904, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 366.904, \"end\": 367.164, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 367.164, \"end\": 367.444, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 367.444, \"end\": 367.705, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 367.705, \"end\": 367.945, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 367.945, \"end\": 368.205, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 368.205, \"end\": 368.805, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 368.805, \"end\": 369.005, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 369.005, \"end\": 369.165, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 369.165, \"end\": 369.325, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 369.325, \"end\": 369.866, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 369.866, 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{\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 379.991, \"end\": 380.211, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 380.211, \"end\": 380.451, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 380.451, \"end\": 380.891, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 380.891, \"end\": 381.111, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 381.111, \"end\": 381.512, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 381.512, \"end\": 381.712, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 381.712, \"end\": 381.852, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 381.852, \"end\": 382.032, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 382.032, \"end\": 382.232, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 382.232, \"end\": 382.292, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 382.292, \"end\": 382.812, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 382.812, \"end\": 382.992, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 382.992, \"end\": 383.072, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 383.072, \"end\": 383.252, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 383.252, \"end\": 383.673, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"仍\", \"start\": 383.673, \"end\": 383.853, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 383.853, \"end\": 383.953, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 383.953, \"end\": 384.013, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 384.013, \"end\": 384.053, \"score\": 0.491}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 384.053, \"end\": 384.133, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 384.133, \"end\": 384.173, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 384.173, \"end\": 384.253, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 384.253, \"end\": 384.273, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", 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\"提\", \"start\": 760.437, \"end\": 760.578, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 760.578, \"end\": 761.198, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 761.198, \"end\": 761.338, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 761.338, \"end\": 761.478, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 761.478, \"end\": 761.658, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 761.658, \"end\": 761.798, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 761.798, \"end\": 761.919, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 761.919, \"end\": 762.199, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 762.199, \"end\": 762.399, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 762.399, \"end\": 762.679, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 762.679, \"end\": 762.839, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 762.839, \"end\": 763.079, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 763.079, \"end\": 763.18, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 763.18, \"end\": 763.24, \"score\": 0.627}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 763.24, \"end\": 763.26, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"們\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,077 --> 00:00:09,303\n有請次長好有請次長\n\n2\n00:00:17,101 --> 00:00:30,508\n市長今天時間蠻有限的有兩題要跟您請教一個就是性平失格的條款我們認為還有不足之處另外一個就是我之前的質詢跟預算案就是婦女性別人權管的設置規劃\n\n3\n00:00:33,129 --> 00:01:01,994\nMeToo運動的時候當時我們都看到很多藝文界的性騷性侵的受害人站出來那我也曾經質詢過擔心國家的資源榮譽被利用那感謝文化部當時積極的回應所以去年10月文化部有修正完成跟文化部相關的獎補助的法規都增訂了性平失格條款那甚至把就是違反勞工的部分也放進去\n\n4\n00:01:02,594 --> 00:01:17,632\n我覺得這是一個蠻大的成果也感謝文化部的支持我這邊只是以國家文化資產保存獎的條例設置要點來做參考我知道你們修了非常的多那也都有跟我辦公室就是報告那但是呢\n\n5\n00:01:18,032 --> 00:01:37,360\n我們最近發生一件很遺憾的事情我們發現這樣的一個規範好像還是不足那跟讓次長知道一下那戲曲學院有一位常年性侵多名戲曲學院學生的老師那他在戲曲學院站出來調查之後\n\n6\n00:01:38,721 --> 00:01:55,476\n發現就是屬實那真的是長年利用老師跟學生之間的不對等權利關係性侵多名學生那後來在戲曲學院調查後終身被解聘那這位前理性老師他當然有一些他的專業的才藝那我們發現\n\n7\n00:01:58,258 --> 00:02:12,603\n漢陽北館劇團是文化部長期有補助的一個團體他還密切跟李姓郎師合作而且這個合作是有接觸到戲曲學院的學生我們後來去查了相關的受獎補助的文化團體發現\n\n8\n00:02:20,758 --> 00:02:47,127\n只要這個漢陽北館劇團宣稱那場活動是沒有得到補助的他就可以繼續合作也就是說文化部就無法可管因為你們也要遵守你們相關的法規嘛所以就是如果那個活動是你們有補助的就可以管那如果沒有補助的可是漢陽北館劇團長期文化部文資局都有補助他就可以繼續跟這個李新航師密切合作所以這個法好像有一個問題\n\n9\n00:02:48,027 --> 00:03:05,996\n那除了這個獎補助沒辦法規範到他未補助的活動還有其他合作的形式那這位李姓郎師他被學生指控然後跟NGO陳情那透過外包的節目就客家電視台外包節目接觸了學生學生是當天到排練的現場才發現是那個李姓郎師他家\n\n10\n00:03:11,378 --> 00:03:16,403\n學生當然會心生恐懼因為這件事情在戲曲學院是一件很大的事我們當時去跟客家電視台問的時候客家電視台第一時間還消極然後否認\n\n11\n00:03:26,232 --> 00:03:30,993\n然後我們請他來開記者會事前都詢問他當天記者會的表現很差我們身為執事堂的立委都必須要出來講話了就是說給你機會表達去查當天反應很不好當然謝謝公視後來決定接手這件事目前在調查中我是以這兩件事情都是文化部狹下的想讓次長了解如果都\n\n12\n00:03:53,460 --> 00:04:13,910\n既有的規範沒辦法處理最後要兩個教文委員就是我跟就是萬老師就是郭育群委員站出來再開記者會那還能夠就是讓大家關注這件事情那我覺得我從一個通案的角度文化部先前制定的性平失格條款\n\n13\n00:04:15,471 --> 00:04:30,366\n是已經處理了很多案但還是遺漏了就是我們現在看到的合約契約等相關項目那我現在要講的事情是我們只針對重大的性平事件因為我知道有一個工作權的考量嘛\n\n14\n00:04:30,706 --> 00:04:48,193\n可是今天像李姓郎師這麼重大的是常年性侵多名戲曲學院的學生那這種案子不會太多嘛你們是不是應該要再把你們這個通案我們看到這幾件事情就是無法處理的部分能夠做一個修補呢\n\n15\n00:04:49,571 --> 00:05:05,672\n跟委員報告這件事我們當然可以來做檢討但在這個本案上其實跟這個中間的受補助人沒有據實疑告有相關雖然說我們在補助的時候是有這樣的要求但不表示你在外包的時候就可以不顧慮這件事情\n\n16\n00:05:06,693 --> 00:05:30,731\n那所以這個是特定團體組織的不誠實導致我們在稽查上的問題所以我們當時一直一再確定他都說沒有但後來發現根本就有那所以像這樣的防堵我們就會對於這個團體我們就會打上一個非常大的問號在未來補助的時候他如果沒有辦法提出完整的切結跟保證他的補助就會受到阻擋\n\n17\n00:05:31,371 --> 00:05:46,625\n所以這件事我覺得應該針對這個部分來做那至於其他合約契約一樣我們在補助的時候我們可以把這個態度跟這個做法告訴所有的受補助團體我們是在意這件事的如果他們發生了這件事情我們基本上就會影響到他們未來的補助\n\n18\n00:05:48,427 --> 00:06:05,843\n那是不是把你們要修補的就是說不管是合約或是契約看你們是放在哪個部分一個通案的處理那能夠再需要多少時間給我辦公室一個報告我覺得不是合約跟契約因為我們現在在合約跟契約上已經有了現在的問題是在特定的狀況下當他的合約契約\n\n19\n00:06:06,704 --> 00:06:25,414\n他又自行在外包或者是他不具實以告他那個部分已經牽涉到道德層面的問題已經不是法律能夠規範的了所以我認為我們在補助的項目上就盡量完整並且再把這個案例通知大家跟他說像這樣的案例仍然對我們來說是有問題的我們會受到質疑會影響到他未來的資格\n\n20\n00:06:30,456 --> 00:06:59,493\n那顯然他們認為對文化部說謊是一件沒關係的事所以我覺得那是不是能夠預警式的提醒他們而不是說像這樣一個個案之後被懲罰了那大家才就是知道因為萬一有些好不好那我想我認為是合約契約那你們如果認為不是合約契約那就讓我們看到就是有公信力的一種不管是說明或者什麼那在那多久時間可以給本席一個報告呢\n\n21\n00:07:02,250 --> 00:07:03,711\n我曾經質詢過婦女與人權館那是在2024年10月23號的時候\n\n22\n00:07:25,423 --> 00:07:47,751\n當時我有舉出這三個例子烏克蘭、韓國兩個例子那我們都知道韓國的性別平等其實跟台灣比還差距蠻大的我們是亞洲第一名對韓國社會有了解他們都有兩個一個是民間的戰爭與女性人權跟慰安婦比較相關另外一個是國家的女性史的展覽館\n\n23\n00:07:50,192 --> 00:08:11,722\n當時感謝我們李部長承諾說三個月會給我初步的報告提出可能的規劃還有就是那我的內容就是說要明確展示出我們台灣的女性那包含性別平等那爭取推動的歷程那今天我們的主題就是就是讓世界看到台灣那文化部的報告都是我們駐外的點\n\n24\n00:08:13,403 --> 00:08:39,291\n當有很多國際的貴賓就是立委很多人來台灣的時候其實我們的文化成就有一部分是民主跟性別平權的成就卻沒有地方可以看那我要講的是文化部的回應跟李部長承諾的差異很大最後跟我們說要用衛福部既有的台灣國家婦女館跟他合作去辦展理由就是說那裡有一個衛福部有一個國家婦女館\n\n25\n00:08:40,852 --> 00:08:59,207\n不知道次長有沒有去過那個台灣國家婦女館沒有齁那您改天可以去看或者請你們的負責的就是長官去看一下它基本上我常常去那裡開會它的英文叫做Women'sCenter它是個辦活動的地方而且主要是\n\n26\n00:09:00,568 --> 00:09:17,570\n婦權會在那裡上班大概有三分之二的空間是上班他們婦權基金會是行政院衛福部處理性別主流化蠻重要的一個類似智庫所以真正能展示的空間大概就是蠻小的那就是可能\n\n27\n00:09:18,251 --> 00:09:34,938\n不用花多少時間就看完而且也沒什麼資源做這個部分如果我們以一個你們最小的場館文學館不知道是不是最小的相對小的進屋面積就超過1500坪那更不用講其他的那我想請你們以丹麥性別博物館為例\n\n28\n00:09:37,399 --> 00:09:57,679\n這個館佔三成半樓那它原來是民間的1991年就被政府認可接收2021年從Women'sMuseum婦女館改名叫做性別館把同志爭取性取向性別多元的都放進去那已經會是丹麥作為婦女跟性別文化史\n\n29\n00:09:58,721 --> 00:10:12,897\n過去現在跟未來的對話教育文化了解的重要的場館那也有非常多的世界級的訪客我們是不是能夠以這樣子的音樂我們台灣是亞洲第一那他也讓我們就是\n\n30\n00:10:13,637 --> 00:10:40,546\n國外的訪客來台灣跟我們國內的民眾想了解過去現在跟未來的台灣婦女跟性別的文化的時候能夠有一個更好的空間能夠鮮活的展示呢那美國也有這樣的管政在建造中那當然我們的性別平等在很多方面其實是比美國做得很好所以文化部給我的那個文可以再行研議我今天有一個臨時提案能夠提出更完整具體的設置規劃呢\n\n31\n00:10:43,058 --> 00:11:09,355\n跟委員報告要設置一個新的管社尤其是新的主題大概整體上來說要進行的評估跟政策上的爭取預算上的爭取跟其他的政策的競合大概都有比較長的時間要走我的建議是我們從展先行因為真正去找一個硬體的場所建立一個管社它那個\n\n32\n00:11:10,456 --> 00:11:27,748\n耗費的資源跟人力的編制的爭取預算的爭取還有就是其他的不同的部會也都會有這一類硬體的爭取我會覺得其實不一定能夠符合委員現在的想法跟需要所以讓展先行\n\n33\n00:11:28,348 --> 00:11:57,105\n去做这一类的主题那个次长容我打岔一下已经有非常多的展现在没地方去据说慰安妇其实台湾也有一个民间的馆过去文化部也支持过它一直面临到空间不稳定的地方它已经有非常多实体的还有慰安妇阿玛的还有教育部的性别平等教育的就是一个纪念展它其实找民间团体做了一个在我们那个巴德路的那个中心事实上是个空间非常\n\n34\n00:11:57,405 --> 00:12:11,155\n有實體的從業永治的故事我們各方面其實都有一個很好的展都已經做過了它其實都沒有以族群作為分類所以我們現在各種博物館的管社都沒有所以要這個評估對我們來說的確有事實上的困難但我們可以開始進行評估\n\n35\n00:12:15,418 --> 00:12:43,260\n那就開始進行評估好嗎我想當然是先從評估先行啦可是之前的評估等於對我們來講就是好像文化部沒有誠意想要了解這個部分好不好OK好那就是今天有一個臨時提案我們待會再討論好謝謝好謝謝范雲委員次長請回本來在范雲委員之後有宣告說要來處理臨時提案可是因為萬美林委員是本委喔所以我們\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n77\t9303\t有請次長好有請次長\n17101\t30508\t市長今天時間蠻有限的有兩題要跟您請教一個就是性平失格的條款我們認為還有不足之處另外一個就是我之前的質詢跟預算案就是婦女性別人權管的設置規劃\n33129\t61994\tMeToo運動的時候當時我們都看到很多藝文界的性騷性侵的受害人站出來那我也曾經質詢過擔心國家的資源榮譽被利用那感謝文化部當時積極的回應所以去年10月文化部有修正完成跟文化部相關的獎補助的法規都增訂了性平失格條款那甚至把就是違反勞工的部分也放進去\n62594\t77632\t我覺得這是一個蠻大的成果也感謝文化部的支持我這邊只是以國家文化資產保存獎的條例設置要點來做參考我知道你們修了非常的多那也都有跟我辦公室就是報告那但是呢\n78032\t97360\t我們最近發生一件很遺憾的事情我們發現這樣的一個規範好像還是不足那跟讓次長知道一下那戲曲學院有一位常年性侵多名戲曲學院學生的老師那他在戲曲學院站出來調查之後\n98721\t115476\t發現就是屬實那真的是長年利用老師跟學生之間的不對等權利關係性侵多名學生那後來在戲曲學院調查後終身被解聘那這位前理性老師他當然有一些他的專業的才藝那我們發現\n118258\t132603\t漢陽北館劇團是文化部長期有補助的一個團體他還密切跟李姓郎師合作而且這個合作是有接觸到戲曲學院的學生我們後來去查了相關的受獎補助的文化團體發現\n140758\t167127\t只要這個漢陽北館劇團宣稱那場活動是沒有得到補助的他就可以繼續合作也就是說文化部就無法可管因為你們也要遵守你們相關的法規嘛所以就是如果那個活動是你們有補助的就可以管那如果沒有補助的可是漢陽北館劇團長期文化部文資局都有補助他就可以繼續跟這個李新航師密切合作所以這個法好像有一個問題\n168027\t185996\t那除了這個獎補助沒辦法規範到他未補助的活動還有其他合作的形式那這位李姓郎師他被學生指控然後跟NGO陳情那透過外包的節目就客家電視台外包節目接觸了學生學生是當天到排練的現場才發現是那個李姓郎師他家\n191378\t196403\t學生當然會心生恐懼因為這件事情在戲曲學院是一件很大的事我們當時去跟客家電視台問的時候客家電視台第一時間還消極然後否認\n206232\t210993\t然後我們請他來開記者會事前都詢問他當天記者會的表現很差我們身為執事堂的立委都必須要出來講話了就是說給你機會表達去查當天反應很不好當然謝謝公視後來決定接手這件事目前在調查中我是以這兩件事情都是文化部狹下的想讓次長了解如果都\n233460\t253910\t既有的規範沒辦法處理最後要兩個教文委員就是我跟就是萬老師就是郭育群委員站出來再開記者會那還能夠就是讓大家關注這件事情那我覺得我從一個通案的角度文化部先前制定的性平失格條款\n255471\t270366\t是已經處理了很多案但還是遺漏了就是我們現在看到的合約契約等相關項目那我現在要講的事情是我們只針對重大的性平事件因為我知道有一個工作權的考量嘛\n270706\t288193\t可是今天像李姓郎師這麼重大的是常年性侵多名戲曲學院的學生那這種案子不會太多嘛你們是不是應該要再把你們這個通案我們看到這幾件事情就是無法處理的部分能夠做一個修補呢\n289571\t305672\t跟委員報告這件事我們當然可以來做檢討但在這個本案上其實跟這個中間的受補助人沒有據實疑告有相關雖然說我們在補助的時候是有這樣的要求但不表示你在外包的時候就可以不顧慮這件事情\n306693\t330731\t那所以這個是特定團體組織的不誠實導致我們在稽查上的問題所以我們當時一直一再確定他都說沒有但後來發現根本就有那所以像這樣的防堵我們就會對於這個團體我們就會打上一個非常大的問號在未來補助的時候他如果沒有辦法提出完整的切結跟保證他的補助就會受到阻擋\n331371\t346625\t所以這件事我覺得應該針對這個部分來做那至於其他合約契約一樣我們在補助的時候我們可以把這個態度跟這個做法告訴所有的受補助團體我們是在意這件事的如果他們發生了這件事情我們基本上就會影響到他們未來的補助\n348427\t365843\t那是不是把你們要修補的就是說不管是合約或是契約看你們是放在哪個部分一個通案的處理那能夠再需要多少時間給我辦公室一個報告我覺得不是合約跟契約因為我們現在在合約跟契約上已經有了現在的問題是在特定的狀況下當他的合約契約\n366704\t385414\t他又自行在外包或者是他不具實以告他那個部分已經牽涉到道德層面的問題已經不是法律能夠規範的了所以我認為我們在補助的項目上就盡量完整並且再把這個案例通知大家跟他說像這樣的案例仍然對我們來說是有問題的我們會受到質疑會影響到他未來的資格\n390456\t419493\t那顯然他們認為對文化部說謊是一件沒關係的事所以我覺得那是不是能夠預警式的提醒他們而不是說像這樣一個個案之後被懲罰了那大家才就是知道因為萬一有些好不好那我想我認為是合約契約那你們如果認為不是合約契約那就讓我們看到就是有公信力的一種不管是說明或者什麼那在那多久時間可以給本席一個報告呢\n422250\t423711\t我曾經質詢過婦女與人權館那是在2024年10月23號的時候\n445423\t467751\t當時我有舉出這三個例子烏克蘭、韓國兩個例子那我們都知道韓國的性別平等其實跟台灣比還差距蠻大的我們是亞洲第一名對韓國社會有了解他們都有兩個一個是民間的戰爭與女性人權跟慰安婦比較相關另外一個是國家的女性史的展覽館\n470192\t491722\t當時感謝我們李部長承諾說三個月會給我初步的報告提出可能的規劃還有就是那我的內容就是說要明確展示出我們台灣的女性那包含性別平等那爭取推動的歷程那今天我們的主題就是就是讓世界看到台灣那文化部的報告都是我們駐外的點\n493403\t519291\t當有很多國際的貴賓就是立委很多人來台灣的時候其實我們的文化成就有一部分是民主跟性別平權的成就卻沒有地方可以看那我要講的是文化部的回應跟李部長承諾的差異很大最後跟我們說要用衛福部既有的台灣國家婦女館跟他合作去辦展理由就是說那裡有一個衛福部有一個國家婦女館\n520852\t539207\t不知道次長有沒有去過那個台灣國家婦女館沒有齁那您改天可以去看或者請你們的負責的就是長官去看一下它基本上我常常去那裡開會它的英文叫做Women's Center它是個辦活動的地方而且主要是\n540568\t557570\t婦權會在那裡上班大概有三分之二的空間是上班他們婦權基金會是行政院衛福部處理性別主流化蠻重要的一個類似智庫所以真正能展示的空間大概就是蠻小的那就是可能\n558251\t574938\t不用花多少時間就看完而且也沒什麼資源做這個部分如果我們以一個你們最小的場館文學館不知道是不是最小的相對小的進屋面積就超過1500坪那更不用講其他的那我想請你們以丹麥性別博物館為例\n577399\t597679\t這個館佔三成半樓那它原來是民間的1991年就被政府認可接收2021年從Women's Museum婦女館改名叫做性別館把同志爭取性取向性別多元的都放進去那已經會是丹麥作為婦女跟性別文化史\n598721\t612897\t過去現在跟未來的對話教育文化了解的重要的場館那也有非常多的世界級的訪客我們是不是能夠以這樣子的音樂我們台灣是亞洲第一那他也讓我們就是\n613637\t640546\t國外的訪客來台灣跟我們國內的民眾想了解過去現在跟未來的台灣婦女跟性別的文化的時候能夠有一個更好的空間能夠鮮活的展示呢那美國也有這樣的管政在建造中那當然我們的性別平等在很多方面其實是比美國做得很好所以文化部給我的那個文可以再行研議我今天有一個臨時提案能夠提出更完整具體的設置規劃呢\n643058\t669355\t跟委員報告要設置一個新的管社尤其是新的主題大概整體上來說要進行的評估跟政策上的爭取預算上的爭取跟其他的政策的競合大概都有比較長的時間要走我的建議是我們從展先行因為真正去找一個硬體的場所建立一個管社它那個\n670456\t687748\t耗費的資源跟人力的編制的爭取預算的爭取還有就是其他的不同的部會也都會有這一類硬體的爭取我會覺得其實不一定能夠符合委員現在的想法跟需要所以讓展先行\n688348\t717105\t去做这一类的主题那个次长容我打岔一下已经有非常多的展现在没地方去据说慰安妇其实台湾也有一个民间的馆过去文化部也支持过它一直面临到空间不稳定的地方它已经有非常多实体的还有慰安妇阿玛的还有教育部的性别平等教育的就是一个纪念展它其实找民间团体做了一个在我们那个巴德路的那个中心事实上是个空间非常\n717405\t731155\t有實體的從業永治的故事我們各方面其實都有一個很好的展都已經做過了它其實都沒有以族群作為分類所以我們現在各種博物館的管社都沒有所以要這個評估對我們來說的確有事實上的困難但我們可以開始進行評估\n735418\t763260\t那就開始進行評估好嗎我想當然是先從評估先行啦可是之前的評估等於對我們來講就是好像文化部沒有誠意想要了解這個部分好不好OK好那就是今天有一個臨時提案我們待會再討論好謝謝好謝謝范雲委員次長請回本來在范雲委員之後有宣告說要來處理臨時提案可是因為萬美林委員是本委喔所以我們\n","txt":"有請次長好有請次長\n市長今天時間蠻有限的有兩題要跟您請教一個就是性平失格的條款我們認為還有不足之處另外一個就是我之前的質詢跟預算案就是婦女性別人權管的設置規劃\nMeToo運動的時候當時我們都看到很多藝文界的性騷性侵的受害人站出來那我也曾經質詢過擔心國家的資源榮譽被利用那感謝文化部當時積極的回應所以去年10月文化部有修正完成跟文化部相關的獎補助的法規都增訂了性平失格條款那甚至把就是違反勞工的部分也放進去\n我覺得這是一個蠻大的成果也感謝文化部的支持我這邊只是以國家文化資產保存獎的條例設置要點來做參考我知道你們修了非常的多那也都有跟我辦公室就是報告那但是呢\n我們最近發生一件很遺憾的事情我們發現這樣的一個規範好像還是不足那跟讓次長知道一下那戲曲學院有一位常年性侵多名戲曲學院學生的老師那他在戲曲學院站出來調查之後\n發現就是屬實那真的是長年利用老師跟學生之間的不對等權利關係性侵多名學生那後來在戲曲學院調查後終身被解聘那這位前理性老師他當然有一些他的專業的才藝那我們發現\n漢陽北館劇團是文化部長期有補助的一個團體他還密切跟李姓郎師合作而且這個合作是有接觸到戲曲學院的學生我們後來去查了相關的受獎補助的文化團體發現\n只要這個漢陽北館劇團宣稱那場活動是沒有得到補助的他就可以繼續合作也就是說文化部就無法可管因為你們也要遵守你們相關的法規嘛所以就是如果那個活動是你們有補助的就可以管那如果沒有補助的可是漢陽北館劇團長期文化部文資局都有補助他就可以繼續跟這個李新航師密切合作所以這個法好像有一個問題\n那除了這個獎補助沒辦法規範到他未補助的活動還有其他合作的形式那這位李姓郎師他被學生指控然後跟NGO陳情那透過外包的節目就客家電視台外包節目接觸了學生學生是當天到排練的現場才發現是那個李姓郎師他家\n學生當然會心生恐懼因為這件事情在戲曲學院是一件很大的事我們當時去跟客家電視台問的時候客家電視台第一時間還消極然後否認\n然後我們請他來開記者會事前都詢問他當天記者會的表現很差我們身為執事堂的立委都必須要出來講話了就是說給你機會表達去查當天反應很不好當然謝謝公視後來決定接手這件事目前在調查中我是以這兩件事情都是文化部狹下的想讓次長了解如果都\n既有的規範沒辦法處理最後要兩個教文委員就是我跟就是萬老師就是郭育群委員站出來再開記者會那還能夠就是讓大家關注這件事情那我覺得我從一個通案的角度文化部先前制定的性平失格條款\n是已經處理了很多案但還是遺漏了就是我們現在看到的合約契約等相關項目那我現在要講的事情是我們只針對重大的性平事件因為我知道有一個工作權的考量嘛\n可是今天像李姓郎師這麼重大的是常年性侵多名戲曲學院的學生那這種案子不會太多嘛你們是不是應該要再把你們這個通案我們看到這幾件事情就是無法處理的部分能夠做一個修補呢\n跟委員報告這件事我們當然可以來做檢討但在這個本案上其實跟這個中間的受補助人沒有據實疑告有相關雖然說我們在補助的時候是有這樣的要求但不表示你在外包的時候就可以不顧慮這件事情\n那所以這個是特定團體組織的不誠實導致我們在稽查上的問題所以我們當時一直一再確定他都說沒有但後來發現根本就有那所以像這樣的防堵我們就會對於這個團體我們就會打上一個非常大的問號在未來補助的時候他如果沒有辦法提出完整的切結跟保證他的補助就會受到阻擋\n所以這件事我覺得應該針對這個部分來做那至於其他合約契約一樣我們在補助的時候我們可以把這個態度跟這個做法告訴所有的受補助團體我們是在意這件事的如果他們發生了這件事情我們基本上就會影響到他們未來的補助\n那是不是把你們要修補的就是說不管是合約或是契約看你們是放在哪個部分一個通案的處理那能夠再需要多少時間給我辦公室一個報告我覺得不是合約跟契約因為我們現在在合約跟契約上已經有了現在的問題是在特定的狀況下當他的合約契約\n他又自行在外包或者是他不具實以告他那個部分已經牽涉到道德層面的問題已經不是法律能夠規範的了所以我認為我們在補助的項目上就盡量完整並且再把這個案例通知大家跟他說像這樣的案例仍然對我們來說是有問題的我們會受到質疑會影響到他未來的資格\n那顯然他們認為對文化部說謊是一件沒關係的事所以我覺得那是不是能夠預警式的提醒他們而不是說像這樣一個個案之後被懲罰了那大家才就是知道因為萬一有些好不好那我想我認為是合約契約那你們如果認為不是合約契約那就讓我們看到就是有公信力的一種不管是說明或者什麼那在那多久時間可以給本席一個報告呢\n我曾經質詢過婦女與人權館那是在2024年10月23號的時候\n當時我有舉出這三個例子烏克蘭、韓國兩個例子那我們都知道韓國的性別平等其實跟台灣比還差距蠻大的我們是亞洲第一名對韓國社會有了解他們都有兩個一個是民間的戰爭與女性人權跟慰安婦比較相關另外一個是國家的女性史的展覽館\n當時感謝我們李部長承諾說三個月會給我初步的報告提出可能的規劃還有就是那我的內容就是說要明確展示出我們台灣的女性那包含性別平等那爭取推動的歷程那今天我們的主題就是就是讓世界看到台灣那文化部的報告都是我們駐外的點\n當有很多國際的貴賓就是立委很多人來台灣的時候其實我們的文化成就有一部分是民主跟性別平權的成就卻沒有地方可以看那我要講的是文化部的回應跟李部長承諾的差異很大最後跟我們說要用衛福部既有的台灣國家婦女館跟他合作去辦展理由就是說那裡有一個衛福部有一個國家婦女館\n不知道次長有沒有去過那個台灣國家婦女館沒有齁那您改天可以去看或者請你們的負責的就是長官去看一下它基本上我常常去那裡開會它的英文叫做Women's Center它是個辦活動的地方而且主要是\n婦權會在那裡上班大概有三分之二的空間是上班他們婦權基金會是行政院衛福部處理性別主流化蠻重要的一個類似智庫所以真正能展示的空間大概就是蠻小的那就是可能\n不用花多少時間就看完而且也沒什麼資源做這個部分如果我們以一個你們最小的場館文學館不知道是不是最小的相對小的進屋面積就超過1500坪那更不用講其他的那我想請你們以丹麥性別博物館為例\n這個館佔三成半樓那它原來是民間的1991年就被政府認可接收2021年從Women's Museum婦女館改名叫做性別館把同志爭取性取向性別多元的都放進去那已經會是丹麥作為婦女跟性別文化史\n過去現在跟未來的對話教育文化了解的重要的場館那也有非常多的世界級的訪客我們是不是能夠以這樣子的音樂我們台灣是亞洲第一那他也讓我們就是\n國外的訪客來台灣跟我們國內的民眾想了解過去現在跟未來的台灣婦女跟性別的文化的時候能夠有一個更好的空間能夠鮮活的展示呢那美國也有這樣的管政在建造中那當然我們的性別平等在很多方面其實是比美國做得很好所以文化部給我的那個文可以再行研議我今天有一個臨時提案能夠提出更完整具體的設置規劃呢\n跟委員報告要設置一個新的管社尤其是新的主題大概整體上來說要進行的評估跟政策上的爭取預算上的爭取跟其他的政策的競合大概都有比較長的時間要走我的建議是我們從展先行因為真正去找一個硬體的場所建立一個管社它那個\n耗費的資源跟人力的編制的爭取預算的爭取還有就是其他的不同的部會也都會有這一類硬體的爭取我會覺得其實不一定能夠符合委員現在的想法跟需要所以讓展先行\n去做这一类的主题那个次长容我打岔一下已经有非常多的展现在没地方去据说慰安妇其实台湾也有一个民间的馆过去文化部也支持过它一直面临到空间不稳定的地方它已经有非常多实体的还有慰安妇阿玛的还有教育部的性别平等教育的就是一个纪念展它其实找民间团体做了一个在我们那个巴德路的那个中心事实上是个空间非常\n有實體的從業永治的故事我們各方面其實都有一個很好的展都已經做過了它其實都沒有以族群作為分類所以我們現在各種博物館的管社都沒有所以要這個評估對我們來說的確有事實上的困難但我們可以開始進行評估\n那就開始進行評估好嗎我想當然是先從評估先行啦可是之前的評估等於對我們來講就是好像文化部沒有誠意想要了解這個部分好不好OK好那就是今天有一個臨時提案我們待會再討論好謝謝好謝謝范雲委員次長請回本來在范雲委員之後有宣告說要來處理臨時提案可是因為萬美林委員是本委喔所以我們\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.077 --> 00:09.303\n有請次長好有請次長\n\n00:17.101 --> 00:30.508\n市長今天時間蠻有限的有兩題要跟您請教一個就是性平失格的條款我們認為還有不足之處另外一個就是我之前的質詢跟預算案就是婦女性別人權管的設置規劃\n\n00:33.129 --> 01:01.994\nMeToo運動的時候當時我們都看到很多藝文界的性騷性侵的受害人站出來那我也曾經質詢過擔心國家的資源榮譽被利用那感謝文化部當時積極的回應所以去年10月文化部有修正完成跟文化部相關的獎補助的法規都增訂了性平失格條款那甚至把就是違反勞工的部分也放進去\n\n01:02.594 --> 01:17.632\n我覺得這是一個蠻大的成果也感謝文化部的支持我這邊只是以國家文化資產保存獎的條例設置要點來做參考我知道你們修了非常的多那也都有跟我辦公室就是報告那但是呢\n\n01:18.032 --> 01:37.360\n我們最近發生一件很遺憾的事情我們發現這樣的一個規範好像還是不足那跟讓次長知道一下那戲曲學院有一位常年性侵多名戲曲學院學生的老師那他在戲曲學院站出來調查之後\n\n01:38.721 --> 01:55.476\n發現就是屬實那真的是長年利用老師跟學生之間的不對等權利關係性侵多名學生那後來在戲曲學院調查後終身被解聘那這位前理性老師他當然有一些他的專業的才藝那我們發現\n\n01:58.258 --> 02:12.603\n漢陽北館劇團是文化部長期有補助的一個團體他還密切跟李姓郎師合作而且這個合作是有接觸到戲曲學院的學生我們後來去查了相關的受獎補助的文化團體發現\n\n02:20.758 --> 02:47.127\n只要這個漢陽北館劇團宣稱那場活動是沒有得到補助的他就可以繼續合作也就是說文化部就無法可管因為你們也要遵守你們相關的法規嘛所以就是如果那個活動是你們有補助的就可以管那如果沒有補助的可是漢陽北館劇團長期文化部文資局都有補助他就可以繼續跟這個李新航師密切合作所以這個法好像有一個問題\n\n02:48.027 --> 03:05.996\n那除了這個獎補助沒辦法規範到他未補助的活動還有其他合作的形式那這位李姓郎師他被學生指控然後跟NGO陳情那透過外包的節目就客家電視台外包節目接觸了學生學生是當天到排練的現場才發現是那個李姓郎師他家\n\n03:11.378 --> 03:16.403\n學生當然會心生恐懼因為這件事情在戲曲學院是一件很大的事我們當時去跟客家電視台問的時候客家電視台第一時間還消極然後否認\n\n03:26.232 --> 03:30.993\n然後我們請他來開記者會事前都詢問他當天記者會的表現很差我們身為執事堂的立委都必須要出來講話了就是說給你機會表達去查當天反應很不好當然謝謝公視後來決定接手這件事目前在調查中我是以這兩件事情都是文化部狹下的想讓次長了解如果都\n\n03:53.460 --> 04:13.910\n既有的規範沒辦法處理最後要兩個教文委員就是我跟就是萬老師就是郭育群委員站出來再開記者會那還能夠就是讓大家關注這件事情那我覺得我從一個通案的角度文化部先前制定的性平失格條款\n\n04:15.471 --> 04:30.366\n是已經處理了很多案但還是遺漏了就是我們現在看到的合約契約等相關項目那我現在要講的事情是我們只針對重大的性平事件因為我知道有一個工作權的考量嘛\n\n04:30.706 --> 04:48.193\n可是今天像李姓郎師這麼重大的是常年性侵多名戲曲學院的學生那這種案子不會太多嘛你們是不是應該要再把你們這個通案我們看到這幾件事情就是無法處理的部分能夠做一個修補呢\n\n04:49.571 --> 05:05.672\n跟委員報告這件事我們當然可以來做檢討但在這個本案上其實跟這個中間的受補助人沒有據實疑告有相關雖然說我們在補助的時候是有這樣的要求但不表示你在外包的時候就可以不顧慮這件事情\n\n05:06.693 --> 05:30.731\n那所以這個是特定團體組織的不誠實導致我們在稽查上的問題所以我們當時一直一再確定他都說沒有但後來發現根本就有那所以像這樣的防堵我們就會對於這個團體我們就會打上一個非常大的問號在未來補助的時候他如果沒有辦法提出完整的切結跟保證他的補助就會受到阻擋\n\n05:31.371 --> 05:46.625\n所以這件事我覺得應該針對這個部分來做那至於其他合約契約一樣我們在補助的時候我們可以把這個態度跟這個做法告訴所有的受補助團體我們是在意這件事的如果他們發生了這件事情我們基本上就會影響到他們未來的補助\n\n05:48.427 --> 06:05.843\n那是不是把你們要修補的就是說不管是合約或是契約看你們是放在哪個部分一個通案的處理那能夠再需要多少時間給我辦公室一個報告我覺得不是合約跟契約因為我們現在在合約跟契約上已經有了現在的問題是在特定的狀況下當他的合約契約\n\n06:06.704 --> 06:25.414\n他又自行在外包或者是他不具實以告他那個部分已經牽涉到道德層面的問題已經不是法律能夠規範的了所以我認為我們在補助的項目上就盡量完整並且再把這個案例通知大家跟他說像這樣的案例仍然對我們來說是有問題的我們會受到質疑會影響到他未來的資格\n\n06:30.456 --> 06:59.493\n那顯然他們認為對文化部說謊是一件沒關係的事所以我覺得那是不是能夠預警式的提醒他們而不是說像這樣一個個案之後被懲罰了那大家才就是知道因為萬一有些好不好那我想我認為是合約契約那你們如果認為不是合約契約那就讓我們看到就是有公信力的一種不管是說明或者什麼那在那多久時間可以給本席一個報告呢\n\n07:02.250 --> 07:03.711\n我曾經質詢過婦女與人權館那是在2024年10月23號的時候\n\n07:25.423 --> 07:47.751\n當時我有舉出這三個例子烏克蘭、韓國兩個例子那我們都知道韓國的性別平等其實跟台灣比還差距蠻大的我們是亞洲第一名對韓國社會有了解他們都有兩個一個是民間的戰爭與女性人權跟慰安婦比較相關另外一個是國家的女性史的展覽館\n\n07:50.192 --> 08:11.722\n當時感謝我們李部長承諾說三個月會給我初步的報告提出可能的規劃還有就是那我的內容就是說要明確展示出我們台灣的女性那包含性別平等那爭取推動的歷程那今天我們的主題就是就是讓世界看到台灣那文化部的報告都是我們駐外的點\n\n08:13.403 --> 08:39.291\n當有很多國際的貴賓就是立委很多人來台灣的時候其實我們的文化成就有一部分是民主跟性別平權的成就卻沒有地方可以看那我要講的是文化部的回應跟李部長承諾的差異很大最後跟我們說要用衛福部既有的台灣國家婦女館跟他合作去辦展理由就是說那裡有一個衛福部有一個國家婦女館\n\n08:40.852 --> 08:59.207\n不知道次長有沒有去過那個台灣國家婦女館沒有齁那您改天可以去看或者請你們的負責的就是長官去看一下它基本上我常常去那裡開會它的英文叫做Women'sCenter它是個辦活動的地方而且主要是\n\n09:00.568 --> 09:17.570\n婦權會在那裡上班大概有三分之二的空間是上班他們婦權基金會是行政院衛福部處理性別主流化蠻重要的一個類似智庫所以真正能展示的空間大概就是蠻小的那就是可能\n\n09:18.251 --> 09:34.938\n不用花多少時間就看完而且也沒什麼資源做這個部分如果我們以一個你們最小的場館文學館不知道是不是最小的相對小的進屋面積就超過1500坪那更不用講其他的那我想請你們以丹麥性別博物館為例\n\n09:37.399 --> 09:57.679\n這個館佔三成半樓那它原來是民間的1991年就被政府認可接收2021年從Women'sMuseum婦女館改名叫做性別館把同志爭取性取向性別多元的都放進去那已經會是丹麥作為婦女跟性別文化史\n\n09:58.721 --> 10:12.897\n過去現在跟未來的對話教育文化了解的重要的場館那也有非常多的世界級的訪客我們是不是能夠以這樣子的音樂我們台灣是亞洲第一那他也讓我們就是\n\n10:13.637 --> 10:40.546\n國外的訪客來台灣跟我們國內的民眾想了解過去現在跟未來的台灣婦女跟性別的文化的時候能夠有一個更好的空間能夠鮮活的展示呢那美國也有這樣的管政在建造中那當然我們的性別平等在很多方面其實是比美國做得很好所以文化部給我的那個文可以再行研議我今天有一個臨時提案能夠提出更完整具體的設置規劃呢\n\n10:43.058 --> 11:09.355\n跟委員報告要設置一個新的管社尤其是新的主題大概整體上來說要進行的評估跟政策上的爭取預算上的爭取跟其他的政策的競合大概都有比較長的時間要走我的建議是我們從展先行因為真正去找一個硬體的場所建立一個管社它那個\n\n11:10.456 --> 11:27.748\n耗費的資源跟人力的編制的爭取預算的爭取還有就是其他的不同的部會也都會有這一類硬體的爭取我會覺得其實不一定能夠符合委員現在的想法跟需要所以讓展先行\n\n11:28.348 --> 11:57.105\n去做这一类的主题那个次长容我打岔一下已经有非常多的展现在没地方去据说慰安妇其实台湾也有一个民间的馆过去文化部也支持过它一直面临到空间不稳定的地方它已经有非常多实体的还有慰安妇阿玛的还有教育部的性别平等教育的就是一个纪念展它其实找民间团体做了一个在我们那个巴德路的那个中心事实上是个空间非常\n\n11:57.405 --> 12:11.155\n有實體的從業永治的故事我們各方面其實都有一個很好的展都已經做過了它其實都沒有以族群作為分類所以我們現在各種博物館的管社都沒有所以要這個評估對我們來說的確有事實上的困難但我們可以開始進行評估\n\n12:15.418 --> 12:43.260\n那就開始進行評估好嗎我想當然是先從評估先行啦可是之前的評估等於對我們來講就是好像文化部沒有誠意想要了解這個部分好不好OK好那就是今天有一個臨時提案我們待會再討論好謝謝好謝謝范雲委員次長請回本來在范雲委員之後有宣告說要來處理臨時提案可是因為萬美林委員是本委喔所以我們\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.077,"end":9.303,"text":"有請次長好有請次長"},{"start":17.101,"end":30.508,"text":"市長今天時間蠻有限的有兩題要跟您請教一個就是性平失格的條款我們認為還有不足之處另外一個就是我之前的質詢跟預算案就是婦女性別人權管的設置規劃"},{"start":33.129,"end":61.994,"text":"MeToo運動的時候當時我們都看到很多藝文界的性騷性侵的受害人站出來那我也曾經質詢過擔心國家的資源榮譽被利用那感謝文化部當時積極的回應所以去年10月文化部有修正完成跟文化部相關的獎補助的法規都增訂了性平失格條款那甚至把就是違反勞工的部分也放進去"},{"start":62.594,"end":77.632,"text":"我覺得這是一個蠻大的成果也感謝文化部的支持我這邊只是以國家文化資產保存獎的條例設置要點來做參考我知道你們修了非常的多那也都有跟我辦公室就是報告那但是呢"},{"start":78.032,"end":97.36,"text":"我們最近發生一件很遺憾的事情我們發現這樣的一個規範好像還是不足那跟讓次長知道一下那戲曲學院有一位常年性侵多名戲曲學院學生的老師那他在戲曲學院站出來調查之後"},{"start":98.721,"end":115.476,"text":"發現就是屬實那真的是長年利用老師跟學生之間的不對等權利關係性侵多名學生那後來在戲曲學院調查後終身被解聘那這位前理性老師他當然有一些他的專業的才藝那我們發現"},{"start":118.258,"end":132.603,"text":"漢陽北館劇團是文化部長期有補助的一個團體他還密切跟李姓郎師合作而且這個合作是有接觸到戲曲學院的學生我們後來去查了相關的受獎補助的文化團體發現"},{"start":140.758,"end":167.127,"text":"只要這個漢陽北館劇團宣稱那場活動是沒有得到補助的他就可以繼續合作也就是說文化部就無法可管因為你們也要遵守你們相關的法規嘛所以就是如果那個活動是你們有補助的就可以管那如果沒有補助的可是漢陽北館劇團長期文化部文資局都有補助他就可以繼續跟這個李新航師密切合作所以這個法好像有一個問題"},{"start":168.027,"end":185.996,"text":"那除了這個獎補助沒辦法規範到他未補助的活動還有其他合作的形式那這位李姓郎師他被學生指控然後跟NGO陳情那透過外包的節目就客家電視台外包節目接觸了學生學生是當天到排練的現場才發現是那個李姓郎師他家"},{"start":191.378,"end":196.403,"text":"學生當然會心生恐懼因為這件事情在戲曲學院是一件很大的事我們當時去跟客家電視台問的時候客家電視台第一時間還消極然後否認"},{"start":206.232,"end":210.993,"text":"然後我們請他來開記者會事前都詢問他當天記者會的表現很差我們身為執事堂的立委都必須要出來講話了就是說給你機會表達去查當天反應很不好當然謝謝公視後來決定接手這件事目前在調查中我是以這兩件事情都是文化部狹下的想讓次長了解如果都"},{"start":233.46,"end":253.91,"text":"既有的規範沒辦法處理最後要兩個教文委員就是我跟就是萬老師就是郭育群委員站出來再開記者會那還能夠就是讓大家關注這件事情那我覺得我從一個通案的角度文化部先前制定的性平失格條款"},{"start":255.471,"end":270.366,"text":"是已經處理了很多案但還是遺漏了就是我們現在看到的合約契約等相關項目那我現在要講的事情是我們只針對重大的性平事件因為我知道有一個工作權的考量嘛"},{"start":270.706,"end":288.193,"text":"可是今天像李姓郎師這麼重大的是常年性侵多名戲曲學院的學生那這種案子不會太多嘛你們是不是應該要再把你們這個通案我們看到這幾件事情就是無法處理的部分能夠做一個修補呢"},{"start":289.571,"end":305.672,"text":"跟委員報告這件事我們當然可以來做檢討但在這個本案上其實跟這個中間的受補助人沒有據實疑告有相關雖然說我們在補助的時候是有這樣的要求但不表示你在外包的時候就可以不顧慮這件事情"},{"start":306.693,"end":330.731,"text":"那所以這個是特定團體組織的不誠實導致我們在稽查上的問題所以我們當時一直一再確定他都說沒有但後來發現根本就有那所以像這樣的防堵我們就會對於這個團體我們就會打上一個非常大的問號在未來補助的時候他如果沒有辦法提出完整的切結跟保證他的補助就會受到阻擋"},{"start":331.371,"end":346.625,"text":"所以這件事我覺得應該針對這個部分來做那至於其他合約契約一樣我們在補助的時候我們可以把這個態度跟這個做法告訴所有的受補助團體我們是在意這件事的如果他們發生了這件事情我們基本上就會影響到他們未來的補助"},{"start":348.427,"end":365.843,"text":"那是不是把你們要修補的就是說不管是合約或是契約看你們是放在哪個部分一個通案的處理那能夠再需要多少時間給我辦公室一個報告我覺得不是合約跟契約因為我們現在在合約跟契約上已經有了現在的問題是在特定的狀況下當他的合約契約"},{"start":366.704,"end":385.414,"text":"他又自行在外包或者是他不具實以告他那個部分已經牽涉到道德層面的問題已經不是法律能夠規範的了所以我認為我們在補助的項目上就盡量完整並且再把這個案例通知大家跟他說像這樣的案例仍然對我們來說是有問題的我們會受到質疑會影響到他未來的資格"},{"start":390.456,"end":419.493,"text":"那顯然他們認為對文化部說謊是一件沒關係的事所以我覺得那是不是能夠預警式的提醒他們而不是說像這樣一個個案之後被懲罰了那大家才就是知道因為萬一有些好不好那我想我認為是合約契約那你們如果認為不是合約契約那就讓我們看到就是有公信力的一種不管是說明或者什麼那在那多久時間可以給本席一個報告呢"},{"start":422.25,"end":423.711,"text":"我曾經質詢過婦女與人權館那是在2024年10月23號的時候"},{"start":445.423,"end":467.751,"text":"當時我有舉出這三個例子烏克蘭、韓國兩個例子那我們都知道韓國的性別平等其實跟台灣比還差距蠻大的我們是亞洲第一名對韓國社會有了解他們都有兩個一個是民間的戰爭與女性人權跟慰安婦比較相關另外一個是國家的女性史的展覽館"},{"start":470.192,"end":491.722,"text":"當時感謝我們李部長承諾說三個月會給我初步的報告提出可能的規劃還有就是那我的內容就是說要明確展示出我們台灣的女性那包含性別平等那爭取推動的歷程那今天我們的主題就是就是讓世界看到台灣那文化部的報告都是我們駐外的點"},{"start":493.403,"end":519.291,"text":"當有很多國際的貴賓就是立委很多人來台灣的時候其實我們的文化成就有一部分是民主跟性別平權的成就卻沒有地方可以看那我要講的是文化部的回應跟李部長承諾的差異很大最後跟我們說要用衛福部既有的台灣國家婦女館跟他合作去辦展理由就是說那裡有一個衛福部有一個國家婦女館"},{"start":520.852,"end":539.207,"text":"不知道次長有沒有去過那個台灣國家婦女館沒有齁那您改天可以去看或者請你們的負責的就是長官去看一下它基本上我常常去那裡開會它的英文叫做Women's Center它是個辦活動的地方而且主要是"},{"start":540.568,"end":557.57,"text":"婦權會在那裡上班大概有三分之二的空間是上班他們婦權基金會是行政院衛福部處理性別主流化蠻重要的一個類似智庫所以真正能展示的空間大概就是蠻小的那就是可能"},{"start":558.251,"end":574.938,"text":"不用花多少時間就看完而且也沒什麼資源做這個部分如果我們以一個你們最小的場館文學館不知道是不是最小的相對小的進屋面積就超過1500坪那更不用講其他的那我想請你們以丹麥性別博物館為例"},{"start":577.399,"end":597.679,"text":"這個館佔三成半樓那它原來是民間的1991年就被政府認可接收2021年從Women's Museum婦女館改名叫做性別館把同志爭取性取向性別多元的都放進去那已經會是丹麥作為婦女跟性別文化史"},{"start":598.721,"end":612.897,"text":"過去現在跟未來的對話教育文化了解的重要的場館那也有非常多的世界級的訪客我們是不是能夠以這樣子的音樂我們台灣是亞洲第一那他也讓我們就是"},{"start":613.637,"end":640.546,"text":"國外的訪客來台灣跟我們國內的民眾想了解過去現在跟未來的台灣婦女跟性別的文化的時候能夠有一個更好的空間能夠鮮活的展示呢那美國也有這樣的管政在建造中那當然我們的性別平等在很多方面其實是比美國做得很好所以文化部給我的那個文可以再行研議我今天有一個臨時提案能夠提出更完整具體的設置規劃呢"},{"start":643.058,"end":669.355,"text":"跟委員報告要設置一個新的管社尤其是新的主題大概整體上來說要進行的評估跟政策上的爭取預算上的爭取跟其他的政策的競合大概都有比較長的時間要走我的建議是我們從展先行因為真正去找一個硬體的場所建立一個管社它那個"},{"start":670.456,"end":687.748,"text":"耗費的資源跟人力的編制的爭取預算的爭取還有就是其他的不同的部會也都會有這一類硬體的爭取我會覺得其實不一定能夠符合委員現在的想法跟需要所以讓展先行"},{"start":688.348,"end":717.105,"text":"去做这一类的主题那个次长容我打岔一下已经有非常多的展现在没地方去据说慰安妇其实台湾也有一个民间的馆过去文化部也支持过它一直面临到空间不稳定的地方它已经有非常多实体的还有慰安妇阿玛的还有教育部的性别平等教育的就是一个纪念展它其实找民间团体做了一个在我们那个巴德路的那个中心事实上是个空间非常"},{"start":717.405,"end":731.155,"text":"有實體的從業永治的故事我們各方面其實都有一個很好的展都已經做過了它其實都沒有以族群作為分類所以我們現在各種博物館的管社都沒有所以要這個評估對我們來說的確有事實上的困難但我們可以開始進行評估"},{"start":735.418,"end":763.26,"text":"那就開始進行評估好嗎我想當然是先從評估先行啦可是之前的評估等於對我們來講就是好像文化部沒有誠意想要了解這個部分好不好OK好那就是今天有一個臨時提案我們待會再討論好謝謝好謝謝范雲委員次長請回本來在范雲委員之後有宣告說要來處理臨時提案可是因為萬美林委員是本委喔所以我們"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":731,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時33分）謝謝召委安排，有請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["范委員雲：次長，今天時間蠻有限的，有兩題要跟您請教，一個就是性平失格的條款，我們認為還有不足之處。另外一個就是我之前質詢過也有提出預算案，是婦女性別人權館的設置規劃。在MeToo運動，當時我們都看到很多藝文界被性騷、性侵的受害人站出來，我也曾經質詢過擔心國家的資源、榮譽被利用，感謝文化部當時積極的回應，去年10月已經修正完成與文化部相關的獎補助法規，也都增訂了性平失格條款，甚至把違反勞工的部分也放進去，我覺得這是一個滿大的成果，也感謝文化部的支持，我知道你們修了非常多法規，也都有跟我辦公室報告，我這邊只是以「國家文化資產保存獎設置要點」為例。","但是最近發生了一件很遺憾的事情，我們發現這樣的一個規範好像還是不足，在此讓次長瞭解一下，戲曲學院有一位長年性侵多名戲曲學院學生的老師，在戲曲學院站出來調查之後，發現情節屬實，他真的長年利用老師跟學生之間的不對等權利關係性侵多名學生，在戲曲學院調查後，被終身解聘。這位前李姓狼師當然有一些專業才藝，我們發現漢陽北館劇團──這是文化部長期補助的一個團體，還密切跟李姓狼師合作，而且這個合作是有接觸到戲曲學院的學生。我們後來查了相關的受獎補助文化團體，發現只要漢陽北館劇團宣稱那場活動是沒有得到補助，他就可以繼續合作李姓狼師，亦即文化部也無法可管，因為你們也要遵守你們相關的法規嘛！所以如果那個活動是你們有補助的就可以管，如果沒有補助的就不行，可是文化部文資局長期都有補助漢陽北館劇團，它卻可以繼續跟李姓狼師密切合作，所以這個法好像有問題，除了沒辦法規範到未補助的活動外，還有其他合作的形式。","這位李姓狼師被學生指控跟NGO成行，透過客家電視台外包節目接觸了學生，學生是當天到排練現場才發現是李姓狼師他家，學生當然會心生恐懼，因為這件事情在戲曲學院是一件很大的事，在我們去詢問客家電視台的時候，客家電視台第一時間還消極地否認，然後我們請他們召開記者會，事前都詢問過他們跟學生，但是他們在當天記者會中的表現很差，連我們身為執政黨的立委都必須要出來講話了，就是給你機會表達、去調查，當天的反應很不好，在這裡要謝謝公視後來決定接手這件事，目前在調查中。","我是以這兩件都是文化部轄下的事情想讓次長瞭解，如果既有的規範都沒辦法處理，最後還要兩個教文委員就是我跟萬老師（郭昱晴委員）站出來開記者會才能讓大家關注這件事情，我覺得從通案的角度來說，文化部先前制定的性平失格條款雖然已經處理了很多案，但還是遺漏了我們現在看到的合約、契約等相關項目。","我現在要講的是我們只針對重大的性平事件，因為我知道有一個工作權的考量，可是像李姓狼師這麼重大的案件，長年性侵多名戲曲學院學生，這種案子不會太多，你們是不是應該再把通案的、我們看到這幾件無法處理的部分做修補？"],["王次長時思：跟委員報告，這件事我們當然可以來檢討，但在本案，其實跟這個中間的受補助人沒有據實以告有相關，雖然我們在補助的時候是有這樣的要求，但不表示他在外包的時候就可以不顧慮這件事情，所以這個是特定團體組織的不誠實導致我們在稽查上的問題，我們當時一再的確定，他都說沒有，但後來發現根本就有，像這樣的防堵，我們就會對於這個團體打上一個非常大的問號，未來補助的時候，他如果沒有辦法提出完整的切結跟保證，他的補助就會受到阻擋，所以這件事我覺得應該針對這個部分來做。","至於其他合約、契約也是一樣，我們在補助的時候可以把這個態度跟作法告訴所有受補助團體，讓他們知道我們是在意這件事的，如果他們發生了這種情事，基本上就會影響到他們未來的補助。"],["范委員雲：那是不是把你們要修補的，不管是合約或是契約，看你們是放在哪個部分，做通案的處理？需要多少時間能給我辦公室一個報告？"],["王次長時思：我覺得不是合約跟契約的問題，因為我們現在在合約跟契約上已經有了相關規定，現在的問題是在特定的狀況下，當他的合約、契約又再自行外包或是不據實以告的時候，那個部分已經牽涉到道德層面的問題，已經不是法律能夠規範的了，所以我認為我們在補助的項目上就儘量完整，再把這個案例通知大家，跟他們說像這樣的案例對我們來說仍然是有問題的，我們會受到質疑，也會影響到他未來的補助資格。"],["范委員雲：顯然他們認為對文化部說謊是沒關係的事。"],["王次長時思：所以我們就要告訴他們這是有關係的。"],["范委員雲：是不是能夠預警式的提醒他們，而不是像這樣發生個案之後被懲罰了，大家才知道，好不好？萬一有一些……"],["王次長時思：我們可以再發通知，而且我們可以在補助上讓大家理解這個案例。"],["范委員雲：我認為是合約、契約的問題，如果你們認為不是，那就讓我們看到具有公信力的辦法，不管是說明或是其他方式。請問多久時間可以給本席一個報告？"],["王次長時思：好像有跟委員說5月中會回復。"],["范委員雲：那就5月中之前，好嗎？給你們充分的時間。再來，我曾經在2024年10月23號質詢過婦女與人權館的議題，當時我有舉出烏克蘭和韓國這兩個例子，我們都知道韓國的性別平等其實跟臺灣相較差距還滿大的，我們是亞洲第一名，對韓國社會有瞭解的就知道他們有兩個單位，一個是民間的戰爭與女性人權博物館，這個跟慰安婦比較相關，另外一個是國家的國立女性史展覽館，感謝李部長當時承諾說3個月會給我初步的報告，提出可能的規劃，我質詢的內容就是要求要明確展示出臺灣女性包含性別平等爭取推動的歷程，我們的主題就是讓世界看到臺灣，而文化部的報告都是我們駐外的點，其實我們的文化成就有一部分是民主跟性別平權的成就，可是當國際的貴賓就是立委等很多人來臺灣的時候，卻沒有地方可以看到這部分。","我要講的是文化部的回應跟李部長的承諾差異很大，跟我們說要與衛福部既有的臺灣國家婦女館合作去辦展，理由就是衛福部有個國家婦女館，不知道次長有沒有去過臺灣國家婦女館？沒有？那您改天可以去看或者請你們負責的長官去看一下。我常常去那裡開會，它的英文是Women's Center，是個辦活動的地方，而且主要是婦權會在那裡上班，大概有三分之二的空間是上班處所，婦權基金會是行政院衛福部處理性別主流化蠻重要的一個類似智庫的機構，所以真正能展示的空間蠻小的，可能不用花多少時間就能看完，而且也沒什麼資源做這個部分。","如果以一個你們最小的場館─文學館，不知道這是不是最小的，但相對小的建物來說，面積就超過1,500坪，更不用講其他的。我想請你們以丹麥性別博物館為例，這個館有三層樓半，原來是民間的，1991年被政府認可接收，2021年從Women's Museum婦女館改名為性別館，把同志爭取性取向、性別多元等都放進去，已經成為丹麥作為瞭解婦女跟性別文化史過去、現在跟未來的對話、教育、文化的重要場館，也有非常多世界級的訪客。我們是不是能夠以這樣的museum為例，臺灣是亞洲第一，當國外的訪客來臺灣以及我們國內的民眾想瞭解過去、現在跟未來的臺灣婦女性別的文化的時候，也可以有一個更好的空間能夠鮮活的展示？","其實美國也有這樣的館正在建造中，當然我們的性別平等在很多方面其實是比美國做得好，文化部給我的那個文是不是可以再行研議，能夠提出更完整具體的設置規劃？我今天也為此提出了一個臨時提案。"],["王次長時思：跟委員報告，要設置一個新的館舍尤其是新的主題，整體上來說要進行的評估跟政策的爭取、預算的爭取跟其他政策的競合，大概都需要比較長的時間。我的建議是我們從展先行，因為真正去找一個硬體的場所建立一個館舍，耗費的資源跟人力編制的爭取、預算的爭取，還有其他不同部會也都會爭取這類硬體，我會覺得其實不一定能夠符合委員現在的想法跟需要，所以讓展先行去做這類主題。但是設置的評估……"],["范委員雲：次長，容我打岔一下，已經有非常多的展現在沒地方去，據說臺灣有一個民間慰安婦的館，過去文化部也支持過，但一直面臨空間不穩定的問題，它已經有非常多實體，還有慰安婦阿嬤的資料。還有教育部的性別平等教育紀念展，他們其實找民間團體做了一個展，就在八德路的中心，事實上是個空間非常大、有實體的，從葉永鋕的故事各方面做了一個很好的展覽，這些都已經做過了。"],["王次長時思：像這類的博物館，其實都沒有以族群作為分類，現在這個連館舍都沒有，所以要對此進行評估對我們來說的確有事實上的困難，我們可以開始進行評估，但是要設置是很困難的。"],["范委員雲：那就開始進行評估。我想當然是從評估先行，可是之前的評估，對我們來講好像意味著文化部沒有誠意想要瞭解這個部分。","本席今天提出了一個臨時提案，我們待會兒再討論。謝謝！"],["王次長時思：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員，次長請回。","本來我有宣告在范雲委員質詢之後要處理臨時提案，可是因為萬美玲委員是本會委員，所以我們請萬美玲委員質詢之後，再來處理臨時提案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":440,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-8","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","陳秀寳","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張雅琳","林沛祥","范雲","萬美玲","陳培瑜","陳冠廷","何欣純","蔡易餘","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":381,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部次長王時思列席就「樂為世界人─臺灣文化發展與國際能見度之突破及挑戰」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144202_00002"}}}