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846.663, \"text\": \"因為今天這些我的同學跟國會聯絡人不同的同學他們之間沒有在勾串啦他們跟我講的都是同一個答案上面交代不可以送解凍案什麼時候國家走到今天這樣把人民的權益把公務員的權益來當作是一個政治攻擊就是要讓大家不懂的人能夠痛恨\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 823.834, \"end\": 824.134, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 824.134, \"end\": 824.274, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 824.274, \"end\": 824.734, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 824.734, \"end\": 824.934, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 824.934, \"end\": 825.054, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 825.054, \"end\": 825.175, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 825.175, \"end\": 825.435, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 825.435, \"end\": 825.755, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 825.755, \"end\": 826.575, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"絡\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 826.575, \"end\": 827.355, \"score\": 0.923}, 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953.516, \"end\": 953.716, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 953.716, \"end\": 953.816, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"媽\"}, {\"word\": \"媽\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 953.816, \"end\": 953.996, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"她\", \"start\": 953.996, \"end\": 954.436, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 954.436, \"end\": 954.516, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 954.516, \"end\": 954.636, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 954.636, \"end\": 955.797, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"刪\"}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 955.797, \"end\": 955.957, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 955.957, \"end\": 956.077, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 956.077, \"end\": 956.257, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 956.257, \"end\": 956.537, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"她\", \"start\": 956.537, \"end\": 956.697, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 956.697, \"end\": 957.158, 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1002.801, \"text\": \"我爸媽懲罰我小時候就是給我最少的零用錢讓我氣得要死啊怎麼會是我拿到史上最高的零用錢這都藍白亂算預算然後後來被人家掀出來說數字都沒有少還變多結果就說 欸怎麼不能留用開始這些鬼話全部都出來我現在看到的狀況都是這樣齁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 986.625, \"end\": 986.765, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"爸\", \"start\": 986.765, \"end\": 987.466, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"媽\"}, {\"word\": \"懲\"}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 987.466, \"end\": 987.626, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 987.626, \"end\": 987.826, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 987.826, \"end\": 987.987, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 987.987, \"end\": 988.087, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 988.087, \"end\": 988.307, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 988.307, \"end\": 988.447, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 988.447, \"end\": 988.587, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 988.587, \"end\": 988.767, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 1248.083, \"end\": 1248.344, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1248.344, \"end\": 1248.566, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 1248.566, \"end\": 1248.707, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 1248.707, \"end\": 1248.727, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 1248.727, \"end\": 1248.747, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,169 --> 00:00:27,737\n麻煩全區部長法務部長兩位好主要是這樣我們先跟部長請教一下因為部長剛剛講說釣魚站早上六點多去拜訪\n\n2\n00:00:28,988 --> 00:00:48,625\n拜訪這個民眾啊那部長說這個是基隆人的習慣那部長可能沒有注意那我後來發現那個新聞已經開始在報這件事情那我想請教一下部長你認為基隆人的習慣是什麼意思為什麼要警察早上6點多去啊那個吊牢站早上6點多去\n\n3\n00:00:49,412 --> 00:01:15,208\n因為其實這個是執行面的一個問題當然我們那時候是有我是有瞭解就是說考慮因為基農基農因為在外地工作上班的很多所以比較早起床所以因為路途要因為他在台北市或新北市來工作所以比較提前來送達船票所以讓被傳換對象當然可以斟酌說我那時候是不是要請假\n\n4\n00:01:16,789 --> 00:01:31,908\n來接受這個訓問嘛所以這個其實是有考量到一個工作的一個情況一種比較體貼的一個做法但是如果說這個影響到這個當然我們是可以你的意思是說六點半就要把他帶走的意思嗎沒有帶走\n\n5\n00:01:32,108 --> 00:01:59,091\n是傳喚正常的通知那個檢察官傳票的送達嗎那為什麼不能用一般的郵務送達到6點半不是怎麼帶走這一份執行面我們是不是可以請調查局局長來我想請教一下局長我們先釐清這件事情當天6點半帶檢察官的傳票去是要馬上把他帶走還是只是告訴他何時要到庭應訊當然就是通知他就通知他而已\n\n6\n00:01:59,571 --> 00:02:28,713\n通知他什麼時候到庭應訊時間我具體的內容我就不曉得那我現在就我的疑問就在這裡如果第一個如果第一個檢察官是請調查官拿船票去找當事人請當事人跟著走我是沒有說具體喔請當事人跟著走那六點半到我家帶我走全家都嚇死了這第一個第二個如果檢察官是指示特定的時間到庭應訊那這個用一般遊牧送達就可以了為什麼一定要調查官去送達\n\n7\n00:02:29,934 --> 00:02:54,439\n個案的執行方式跟執行的內容我們都依照檢察官的指揮跟部長還有局長報告一下我自己檢察官也幹那麼多年我怎麼沒有聽說過有人幹這種事情我跟兩位報告到場搜索有可能六點半到場拘停有可能六點半但是因為這兩個是必須施以強制力可是如果今天只是通知或者是傳喚民眾的話\n\n8\n00:02:57,279 --> 00:03:11,681\n為什麼你早上6點半要送去呢就像那天在高雄你調查官你到現場一定要把某一個人帶走一樣那當然現場的民眾會開始會鬧哄哄嘛那我們台灣什麼時候走向這種\n\n9\n00:03:13,514 --> 00:03:39,660\n讓大人民恐懼然後好像辦集全國家的感覺了調查官可以突然跑到我家來就把我帶走或是調查官來6點半來我家按門鈴那我們也不認為說基隆人跟我們什麼不一樣他們沒有必要說你叫基隆人所以你必須起的筆跡還要早沒有這種事情嗎我想這個是委員誤解啊對剛剛部長不是這個意思剛剛部長說這個是基隆人的習性啊不是這個意思這個是\n\n10\n00:03:40,280 --> 00:04:00,902\n這不是說生活習慣,我講說這是因為有考量到他一個工作的一個特性所以我們就在六點多,這是一個他們的一個傳辦的一個考量,這個不是我不是,就部長我剛講的,如果今天這些人是被害人,這些人不是被告\n\n11\n00:04:02,023 --> 00:04:15,209\n我再跟兩位補充一下這些人是被害人那我請教一下當天調查官送過去的調查官的船票是立刻要帶走開庭還是改天開庭\n\n12\n00:04:18,858 --> 00:04:37,055\n這個有記載他到的時間啊這個不是說來的話我就帶你去開庭對就是我剛剛講的嘛如果你今天是去要把這是一個傳票送達的一個時間嘛又不是什麼六點開庭六點半開庭部長我沒有說過這句話你不要誤解我的話你不要亂講\n\n13\n00:04:41,039 --> 00:04:58,972\n部長送達有送達的做法送達有送達的慣例今天對於被害人你早上六點半去送達然後你說這是基隆人的習慣這我不認同啦這個我不會講說是基隆人是考慮到基隆地區的工作的特性因為他在外地的工作可能會比較早一點出門\n\n14\n00:05:00,574 --> 00:05:15,842\n那台北人也可能在外地工作,新北人也可能,那是不是以後全國的被害人我們不斷就點辦不動彈?當然如果說這個考量的話,我們考量說跟我們的事情...部長,部長,我不是外行人,部長,報告部長,我不是外行人,我們來這裡就講真話,好不好?\n\n15\n00:05:21,545 --> 00:05:45,235\n沒有人在早上六點半去被害人家中送檢察官的船票啦部長有的話麻煩部長你跟我說過往有哪些例子這樣子所以這個個案這個是屬於我也尊重檢察官的但是如果說這樣的話引起大家的如果你說個案我接受啊全國的特例啊就像北檢的林俊賢檢察官會二十年沒有檢察官去視察過\n\n16\n00:05:46,335 --> 00:06:06,628\n視察過醫院然後鄰居講大言不慚說他去醫院視察一樣啊你今天就是在幹過往都沒有幹過的事情嘛報告部長如果你認為這是個案我可以接受啦那我們是不是就告訴以後所有的人你不能這樣做你這老民你在恐嚇基隆人嘛這部分我已經請這個檢察官在斟酌那個\n\n17\n00:06:10,894 --> 00:06:38,926\n去符合我們更溫暖的一個做法台灣什麼時候變成今天這樣我一直以為說我一直以來我認為司法是來對付壞人的什麼時候變成政治工具了我一直以來我認為國安法是對付那些境外勢力了什麼時候來對付的都是善良百姓這些年怎麼會變成這樣子啊我當年從社會觀訓練所結訓的時候我對司法的夢想不是今天這樣欸\n\n18\n00:06:43,206 --> 00:07:02,337\n這會讓很多司法人員難過啦其實我現在也知道北檢北檢裡面自己對於懲辦審慶金還有柯文貞都有兩個不同很極端的想法啦更何況北檢以外的那我覺得部長我們都是要希望說留下好的名聲給大家探聽啦如果說跟著政治人物這樣玩\n\n19\n00:07:03,462 --> 00:07:27,310\n不是司法人員該有的樣子我想跟委員報告我們不是跟政治人員玩啦我們不會跟政治人員玩啦好沒關係我想說我想說給我們委員給我們的指教我們都會深切檢討就像委員講這個我們回去有跟他交代說是不是可以更溫暖更體貼的一個做法不是講政治人物玩我們沒有跟政治人物玩這件事情對於我們國家的警察官法官\n\n20\n00:07:28,030 --> 00:07:51,979\n警察調查官廉政官其實我都非常的尊重因為這些人以前是陪著我從年輕到現在一路大家都是一起作戰的戰友所以我也不能去苛責誰啦當然我要把一些有問題的制度拿出來更何況說我覺得今天的一些做法其實造成寒蟬效應你不要講別人你早上六點半去被害人家送船票你會讓這些人真的會很害怕\n\n21\n00:07:53,052 --> 00:08:08,844\n然後你一個調查官跑來一定要帶我走然後他沒有他雖然有出示證件但他也沒有拿任何G票或什麼我也會害怕所以搞到最後為什麼很多人說現在變成寒蟬效應啊司法跟整個行政機關好像在對付民眾\n\n22\n00:08:10,665 --> 00:08:33,974\n這個我想說大家要釐清啦那當然有一些政客他們對於很多事情都在亂講亂帶風向譬如說我們都426我們一個集會然後就會有人說你違照文書沒有違法嗎其實我們一直在講的是執法的不公的問題我們一直聚焦在執法的不公就像剛剛講說翁曉琳委員自己也說違照文書違法那為什麼現在大家可以抗議這個\n\n23\n00:08:35,871 --> 00:08:43,720\n我覺得這是亂帶風向那這些人他也念過法律他不是不懂但他今天來這裡很多政客來這裡就是在騙人民嘛一直騙啊\n\n24\n00:08:46,027 --> 00:09:01,038\n從來沒有人說過偽造文書是合法我們都認為違法該辦就辦但是我們認為執法要公平不要讓人民造成寒蟬效應這個執法公平我已經一再強調檢察官絕對是勿枉勿重不分黨派沒有一時的立場這個是要精神檢驗的謝謝部長部長講這些話是我心裡的話但是我希望\n\n25\n00:09:11,192 --> 00:09:34,177\n大家都能做到那另外其實剛剛吳孝遠也講錯一個東西他還沒講說韓國瑜罷免案然後什麼幾個死人連署其實我一直覺得奇怪偽造文書一個行為也是偽造文書啊這跟人數多少有什麼關係大家現在很喜歡比較啊罷蘭的死人連署比例多少罷綠的死人連署比例才多少所以你罷蘭的該死罷綠的好棒棒\n\n26\n00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:58,270\n我覺得這莫名其妙嘛犯罪行為犯罪就犯罪啊還要來比人數的高低更何況甘吾士要來講錯啊韓國瑜案子高雄地檢署的不起訴處分書他是認為罷免的那個收件的團體他沒有這個辨識是否是違簽的這個能力嘛這跟數量比例這有什麼關聯性\n\n27\n00:10:00,117 --> 00:10:23,988\n所以我覺得這些政客們最糟糕的就是他一直在誤導人民一直在帶風向亂扯一通他自己不是不懂但是就要讓自己假裝不懂然後來到處騙人民所以我現在看到的狀況然後我剛剛提到的就是說司法執行為什麼我們有很多意見因為司法的執行它有一個比例原則嘛手段目的的比例原則問題那我們現在認為說你今天你辦詐騙集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛啦\n\n28\n00:10:29,978 --> 00:10:54,859\n對不對然後你辦犯罪集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛你辦那些財產犯罪的那些洗錢掏空的你就沒有從來沒有這麼猛這麼用力過但是你今天配合的政治人物在玩這些人的時候你忘了手段跟目的在法律上面有個最基本的東西叫做比例原則然後你就說這東西構成犯罪啊我可以不抓嗎但是你不是啊你今天\n\n29\n00:10:55,882 --> 00:11:09,787\n大搜索然後大羈押然後我真的不知道在做什麼然後我覺得最離譜的是北檢北檢你搜索完國民黨的台北市黨部就算了你申請羈押黨部主委的理由竟然是因為他是那兩個黨工的\n\n30\n00:11:12,250 --> 00:11:31,104\n的老闆所以他一定知情所以推定他知情所以被北院打臉嘛我現在講的是北院的裁定理由因為我沒有看卷但是我講的是北院的裁定理由我再補充一次我講的是北院的裁定理由不是我個人的臆測所以被打臉也是難怪啦\n\n31\n00:11:34,754 --> 00:11:57,775\n不好意思我可能耽誤時間會比較多我們再提一下就是我想請問施部長施部長不好意思我請教一個問題雖然我也是都蠻尊敬您的那您上次有提到就是我們在談那個行政中立的時候您有提到說就法律的精神政務官不可以動用公家資源去從事政黨活動跟政治活動我想這個沒有錯吧\n\n32\n00:11:58,556 --> 00:12:13,602\n那我在這邊也再跟各位報告一件事我們的行政中立法他雖然沒有包含到政務官但是他的立法理由寫得很清楚政務官不是沒有行政中立的義務而是要另立專法部長我有沒有講錯\n\n33\n00:12:15,523 --> 00:12:32,378\n沒有錯我想委員上次有指教過立法說明所以我們這些政務官千萬不能說我沒有行政總理的義務而是今天我不懂為什麼這麼多年下來我們這個專法到現在還沒有立出來\n\n34\n00:12:36,780 --> 00:12:49,467\n我們這次有做一個解凍的儀表板也就是說從3月21號政府公布的國家總預算到今天其實還沒有任何一個人送解凍的案子過來這個都有別於過往\n\n35\n00:12:51,008 --> 00:13:06,681\n那以前喔大家都是趕快來請立法院排解凍就到今天大家都不送拖了一個多月其實這個還蠻離譜但是我要跟各位報告一件事就像我們念法律我們非常多的同學都現在在中央機關或是各地方的縣市機關他們會跟我們講實際情況是什麼啊\n\n36\n00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:25,021\n那我們有認識一些比較熟的國會人士私下也會跟我們講就上面要求不可以送解凍案我自己的同學三四十年的好朋友同學在中央機關也是跟我們說上面交代不可以送解凍案這當然我不是說那個部長您那邊\n\n37\n00:13:25,982 --> 00:13:42,595\n那就讓我一個心裡有個感覺是什麼時候開始政治人物政務官竟然可以拿公務員以及國人當肉票來為了他搞一個政治上面的攻擊一個大罷免什麼時候今天我們台灣走到這個地步了\n\n38\n00:13:43,834 --> 00:14:06,663\n因為今天這些我的同學跟國會聯絡人不同的同學他們之間沒有在勾串啦他們跟我講的都是同一個答案上面交代不可以送解凍案什麼時候國家走到今天這樣把人民的權益把公務員的權益來當作是一個政治攻擊就是要讓大家不懂的人能夠痛恨\n\n39\n00:14:07,663 --> 00:14:35,937\n非執政黨的立委我覺得國家怎麼會走到今天這個地步好那今天執政院長出來叫大家趕快送大家就狂送當時我同學跟我講說我還笑我同學說哇那你們下半年喔預算執行率很低大家要狂花錢欸因為上半年一直跟公務員跟國人講說我們的預算都被刪了都沒錢什麼都不能做然後下半年不知道狂用預算嗎我還在那邊笑他們但是我心裡是難過的為什麼國家可以\n\n40\n00:14:36,744 --> 00:14:57,952\n完全罔顧人民的權益及公務員的權利只為了政治鬥爭你也不用跟我說沒有這件事情這個事情也有公務員出來爆料我想說最近你們也都有看到很多公務員也都出來爆料說他們的單位叫他們不可以送那還有\n\n41\n00:15:00,217 --> 00:15:17,927\n教育部的人跟我說教育部的好朋友跟我說教育部不開冷氣告訴他們因為被藍白三光預算不能開冷氣我的問題是你公務員幹了三十年欸我想請問你一個問題啊就算預算不夠用也是年底的事啊為什麼年初就不夠用我都已經在騙人嘛\n\n42\n00:15:19,605 --> 00:15:37,192\n我說從來沒有這樣子啊然後他們有的三業務費是30%或多少%結果我們希望你不要把業務費拿去養網軍養特定媒體結果你告訴你的公務員說人家不給你開冷氣不給你馬桶沖水變成這樣所以我跟他們講一個我自己\n\n43\n00:15:38,573 --> 00:15:52,400\n跟他們講用一個簡單的例子來比喻小孩子學壞媽媽刪了他抽菸喝酒吃檳榔的零用錢就小孩子跑去跟爸爸說媽媽把我吃飯錢刪光了我快餓死了我血糖低了結果呢\n\n44\n00:15:53,516 --> 00:16:09,923\n即使媽媽把她的零用錢刪掉一部分她的零用錢還是全班最有錢這就是現在的民進黨政府她拿到史上最高的預算還是最有錢然後告訴你什麼基礎的事都不能做這是我自己看到還有就是\n\n45\n00:16:11,293 --> 00:16:25,885\n我認為啦如果藍白真的如同民進黨所說的爛三預算那你拿到應該是史上最低的總預算啊怎麼會是拿到史上最高的總預算呢這是一個人類最基本的邏輯啊我今天要亂砍你的錢你拿到應該是史上最低啊\n\n46\n00:16:26,625 --> 00:16:42,801\n我爸媽懲罰我小時候就是給我最少的零用錢讓我氣得要死啊怎麼會是我拿到史上最高的零用錢這都藍白亂算預算然後後來被人家掀出來說數字都沒有少還變多結果就說欸怎麼不能留用開始這些鬼話全部都出來我現在看到的狀況都是這樣齁\n\n47\n00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:56,223\n那最近發生很多事情就是你說沒衛生紙沒冷氣護照要用完一個一個被踢爆其實這都是讓我們人民對於政府的信任度真的越來越低啦更何況你辦護照還要繳費\n\n48\n00:17:03,117 --> 00:17:17,965\n這兩天今天有一個出來好像是哪一個部的他出來叫大家趕快補送預算結果他的通知是什麼請指示以可將解凍報告發文自立法院什麼叫以可將\n\n49\n00:17:19,178 --> 00:17:32,271\n那就是大家都準備好啦上面交代不可以送出來啊所以現在請大家宜可將這個可以開始送了那為什麼政府要這樣綁架全國的公務員跟罔顧全民的利益呢這樣這樣對嗎\n\n50\n00:17:36,169 --> 00:18:03,647\n我覺得我自己很難過啦行政中立的部分我真的覺得還是希望不管政務官或一般的公務員真的要維持行政中立不是說不聽民進黨的新潮流人的話就是中共同步人所以最近呢陳水扁也變中共同步人啦林卓水也變中共同步人啦台大清大早就是中共同步人啦那我們只要不是投民進不支持民進黨的我們早就被貼什麼舔共什麼這國家已經走到今天這樣了耶\n\n51\n00:18:04,648 --> 00:18:21,008\n然後本來行政中立是國家民主國家最根本一個骨幹的精神所以你看美國總統換成川普他國務院還是堅持他的做法就川普的政府那些人跟馬斯克說要刪美國政府30%的國家總預算怎麼沒有人說\n\n52\n00:18:22,835 --> 00:18:40,061\n人民反而支持結果沒有人民跳出來說你是不是中共同路人所以我覺得我們國家已經走到執政黨已經走到一個瘋狂的程度了甚至教育部長還出來說這罷免進入校園是言論自由什麼時候教育基本法已經被人這麼的不當一回事\n\n53\n00:18:41,421 --> 00:19:07,166\n不好意思最後給我兩分鐘司法院跟法務部司法院我想請教一下你們去年去年政府公告總預算案是113年1月8號你記不記得司法院什麼時候送解凍案沒關係時間關係我直接講司法院是113年1月19號\n\n54\n00:19:09,483 --> 00:19:30,208\n1月8號公告市長院1月19號就開始送解凍案過來了那我想法務部長你可能也不知道法務部是1月30號就送來了而且一送來之後就解凍非常多解凍案只要一份報告來就解凍就今天我們政府是叫大家全部不要送解凍案因為讓大家痛恨覺得立法院就是爛三逸帥所以\n\n55\n00:19:31,092 --> 00:19:51,460\n整整1381億卡了一個月真正讓行政自愛難行的是行政院院長自己所以我還是在這邊敬告政府啦就是很多事情只包不住火尤其是我們有很多同學都在各個中央機關他們都會跟我們講實話那也有很多人出來爆料所以\n\n56\n00:19:53,385 --> 00:20:14,690\n我知道司法院跟你無關因為是行政院院長在幹這件事情但我覺得這蠻丟臉行政院院長為了要讓罷免能夠有效然後就開始搞這些東西我是覺得整兩個字叫丟臉行政院院長丟臉自己卡自己的預算然後要裝窮讓全國人來可憐他這個預算的問題我們再找時間跟委員做一個\n\n57\n00:20:19,031 --> 00:20:47,581\n像那個檢察機關的那個那個做事統三的那個國內女會那部分已經發生了我跟你講部長你回去問你國兩司司長當時他想要出國立牌綜藝我跟你講我立牌綜藝就是要他們留下那些錢你不要搞錯你去問你的國兩司司長對然後你今天解凍案一個月都不送然後你是為了你的法務部好所以你一個月都不要送解凍案了解\n\n58\n00:20:48,083 --> 00:20:48,747\n兩位我們先時間關係謝謝五位\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t27737\t麻煩全區部長 法務部長兩位好主要是這樣我們先跟部長請教一下因為部長剛剛講說釣魚站早上六點多去拜訪\n28988\t48625\t拜訪這個民眾啊那部長說這個是基隆人的習慣那部長可能沒有注意那我後來發現那個新聞已經開始在報這件事情那我想請教一下部長你認為基隆人的習慣是什麼意思為什麼要警察早上6點多去啊那個吊牢站早上6點多去\n49412\t75208\t因為其實這個是執行面的一個問題當然我們那時候是有我是有瞭解就是說考慮因為基農基農因為在外地工作上班的很多所以比較早起床所以因為路途要因為他在台北市或新北市來工作所以比較提前來送達船票所以讓被傳換對象當然可以斟酌說我那時候是不是要請假\n76789\t91908\t來接受這個訓問嘛所以這個其實是有考量到一個工作的一個情況一種比較體貼的一個做法但是如果說這個影響到這個當然我們是可以你的意思是說六點半就要把他帶走的意思嗎沒有帶走\n92108\t119091\t是傳喚 正常的通知 那個檢察官傳票的送達嗎那為什麼不能用一般的郵務送達到6點半不是怎麼帶走 這一份執行面我們是不是可以請調查局局長來我想請教一下局長 我們先釐清這件事情當天6點半帶檢察官的傳票去是要馬上把他帶走 還是只是告訴他何時要到庭應訊當然就是通知他 就通知他而已\n119571\t148713\t通知他什麼時候到庭應訊時間我具體的內容我就不曉得那我現在就我的疑問就在這裡如果第一個如果第一個檢察官是請調查官拿船票去找當事人請當事人跟著走我是沒有說具體喔請當事人跟著走那六點半到我家帶我走全家都嚇死了這第一個第二個如果檢察官是指示特定的時間到庭應訊那這個用一般遊牧送達就可以了為什麼一定要調查官去送達\n149934\t174439\t個案的執行方式跟執行的內容我們都依照檢察官的指揮跟部長還有局長報告一下我自己檢察官也幹那麼多年我怎麼沒有聽說過有人幹這種事情我跟兩位報告到場搜索有可能六點半到場拘停有可能六點半但是因為這兩個是必須施以強制力可是如果今天只是通知或者是傳喚民眾的話\n177279\t191681\t為什麼你早上6點半要送去呢就像那天在高雄你調查官你到現場一定要把某一個人帶走一樣那當然現場的民眾會開始會鬧哄哄嘛那我們台灣什麼時候走向這種\n193514\t219660\t讓大人民恐懼然後好像辦集全國家的感覺了調查官可以突然跑到我家來就把我帶走或是調查官來6點半來我家按門鈴那我們也不認為說基隆人跟我們什麼不一樣他們沒有必要說你叫基隆人所以你必須起的筆跡還要早沒有這種事情嗎我想這個是委員誤解啊對 剛剛部長不是這個意思剛剛部長說這個是基隆人的習性啊不是這個意思這個是\n220280\t240902\t這不是說生活習慣,我講說這是因為有考量到他一個工作的一個特性所以我們就在六點多,這是一個他們的一個傳辦的一個考量,這個不是我不是,就部長我剛講的,如果今天這些人是被害人,這些人不是被告\n242023\t255209\t我再跟兩位補充一下這些人是被害人那我請教一下當天調查官送過去的調查官的船票是立刻要帶走開庭還是改天開庭\n258858\t277055\t這個有記載他到的時間啊這個不是說來的話我就帶你去開庭對就是我剛剛講的嘛如果你今天是去要把這是一個傳票送達的一個時間嘛又不是什麼六點開庭六點半開庭部長我沒有說過這句話你不要誤解我的話你不要亂講\n281039\t298972\t部長 送達有送達的做法 送達有送達的慣例今天對於被害人 你早上六點半去送達然後你說這是基隆人的習慣 這我不認同啦這個我不會講說是基隆人 是考慮到基隆地區的工作的特性因為他在外地的工作可能會比較早一點出門\n300574\t315842\t那台北人也可能在外地工作,新北人也可能,那是不是以後全國的被害人我們不斷就點辦不動彈?當然如果說這個考量的話,我們考量說跟我們的事情...部長,部長,我不是外行人,部長,報告部長,我不是外行人,我們來這裡就講真話,好不好?\n321545\t345235\t沒有人在早上六點半去被害人家中送檢察官的船票啦部長有的話麻煩部長你跟我說過往有哪些例子這樣子所以這個個案這個是屬於我也尊重檢察官的但是如果說這樣的話引起大家的如果你說個案我接受啊全國的特例啊就像北檢的林俊賢檢察官會二十年沒有檢察官去視察過\n346335\t366628\t視察過醫院然後鄰居講大言不慚說他去醫院視察 一樣啊你今天就是在幹過往都沒有幹過的事情嘛報告部長如果你認為這是個案我可以接受啦那我們是不是就告訴以後所有的人你不能這樣做你這老民你在恐嚇基隆人嘛這部分我已經請這個檢察官在斟酌那個\n370894\t398926\t去符合我們更溫暖的一個做法台灣什麼時候變成今天這樣我一直以為說我一直以來我認為司法是來對付壞人的什麼時候變成政治工具了我一直以來我認為國安法是對付那些境外勢力了什麼時候來對付的都是善良百姓這些年怎麼會變成這樣子啊我當年從社會觀訓練所結訓的時候我對司法的夢想不是今天這樣欸\n403206\t422337\t這會讓很多司法人員難過啦其實我現在也知道北檢北檢裡面自己對於懲辦審慶金還有柯文貞都有兩個不同很極端的想法啦更何況北檢以外的那我覺得部長我們都是要希望說留下好的名聲給大家探聽啦如果說跟著政治人物這樣玩\n423462\t447310\t不是司法人員該有的樣子我想跟委員報告我們不是跟政治人員玩啦我們不會跟政治人員玩啦好 沒關係我想說我想說給我們委員 給我們的指教我們都會深切檢討就像委員講這個我們回去有跟他交代說是不是可以更溫暖 更體貼的一個做法不是講政治人物玩我們沒有跟政治人物玩這件事情對於我們國家的警察官 法官\n448030\t471979\t警察 調查官 廉政官其實我都非常的尊重因為這些人以前是陪著我從年輕到現在 一路大家都是一起作戰的戰友所以我也不能去苛責誰啦當然我要把一些有問題的制度拿出來更何況說我覺得今天的一些做法其實造成寒蟬效應你不要講別人 你早上六點半去被害人家送船票你會讓這些人真的會很害怕\n473052\t488844\t然後你一個調查官跑來一定要帶我走然後他沒有他雖然有出示證件但他也沒有拿任何G票或什麼我也會害怕所以搞到最後為什麼很多人說現在變成寒蟬效應啊司法跟整個行政機關好像在對付民眾\n490665\t513974\t這個我想說大家要釐清啦那當然有一些政客他們對於很多事情都在亂講亂帶風向譬如說我們都426我們一個集會然後就會有人說你違照文書沒有違法嗎其實我們一直在講的是執法的不公的問題我們一直聚焦在執法的不公就像剛剛講說翁曉琳委員自己也說違照文書違法那為什麼現在大家可以抗議這個\n515871\t523720\t我覺得這是亂帶風向那這些人他也念過法律他不是不懂但他今天來這裡很多政客來這裡就是在騙人民嘛一直騙啊\n526027\t541038\t從來沒有人說過偽造文書是合法我們都認為違法 該辦就辦但是我們認為執法要公平不要讓人民造成寒蟬效應這個執法公平 我已經一再強調檢察官絕對是勿枉勿重 不分黨派 沒有一時的立場這個是要精神檢驗的謝謝部長部長講這些話是我心裡的話 但是我希望\n551192\t574177\t大家都能做到那另外其實剛剛吳孝遠也講錯一個東西他還沒講說韓國瑜罷免案然後什麼幾個死人連署其實我一直覺得奇怪偽造文書一個行為也是偽造文書啊這跟人數多少有什麼關係大家現在很喜歡比較啊罷蘭的死人連署比例多少罷綠的死人連署比例才多少所以你罷蘭的該死罷綠的好棒棒\n575609\t598270\t我覺得這莫名其妙嘛 犯罪行為 犯罪就犯罪啊 還要來比人數的高低更何況 甘吾士要來講錯啊韓國瑜案子 高雄地檢署的不起訴處分書他是認為罷免的那個收件的團體 他沒有這個辨識是否是違簽的這個能力嘛這跟數量比例這有什麼關聯性\n600117\t623988\t所以我覺得這些政客們最糟糕的就是他一直在誤導人民一直在帶風向亂扯一通他自己不是不懂但是就要讓自己假裝不懂然後來到處騙人民所以我現在看到的狀況然後我剛剛提到的就是說司法執行為什麼我們有很多意見因為司法的執行它有一個比例原則嘛手段目的的比例原則問題那我們現在認為說你今天你辦詐騙集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛啦\n629978\t654859\t對不對然後你辦犯罪集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛你辦那些財產犯罪的那些洗錢掏空的你就沒有從來沒有這麼猛這麼用力過但是你今天配合的政治人物在玩這些人的時候你忘了手段跟目的在法律上面有個最基本的東西叫做比例原則然後你就說這東西構成犯罪啊我可以不抓嗎但是你不是啊你今天\n655882\t669787\t大搜索然後大羈押然後我真的不知道在做什麼然後我覺得最離譜的是北檢北檢你搜索完國民黨的台北市黨部就算了你申請羈押黨部主委的理由竟然是因為他是那兩個黨工的\n672250\t691104\t的老闆所以他一定知情所以推定他知情所以被北院打臉嘛我現在講的是北院的裁定理由因為我沒有看卷但是我講的是北院的裁定理由我再補充一次我講的是北院的裁定理由不是我個人的臆測所以被打臉也是難怪啦\n694754\t717775\t不好意思我可能耽誤時間會比較多我們再提一下就是我想請問施部長 施部長不好意思我請教一個問題雖然我也是都蠻尊敬您的那您上次有提到就是我們在談那個行政中立的時候您有提到說就法律的精神政務官不可以動用公家資源去從事政黨活動跟政治活動我想這個沒有錯吧\n718556\t733602\t那我在這邊也再跟各位報告一件事我們的行政中立法他雖然沒有包含到政務官但是他的立法理由寫得很清楚政務官不是沒有行政中立的義務而是要另立專法部長我有沒有講錯\n735523\t752378\t沒有錯 我想委員上次有指教過立法說明所以我們這些政務官千萬不能說我沒有行政總理的義務而是今天 我不懂為什麼這麼多年下來 我們這個專法到現在還沒有立出來\n756780\t769467\t我們這次有做一個解凍的儀表板也就是說從3月21號政府公布的國家總預算到今天其實還沒有任何一個人送解凍的案子過來這個都有別於過往\n771008\t786681\t那以前喔 大家都是趕快來請立法院排解凍就到今天 大家都不送拖了一個多月 其實這個還蠻離譜但是我要跟各位報告一件事就像我們念法律 我們非常多的同學都現在在中央機關或是各地方的縣市機關他們會跟我們講實際情況是什麼啊\n790100\t805021\t那我們有認識一些比較熟的國會人士私下也會跟我們講就上面要求不可以送解凍案我自己的同學三四十年的好朋友同學在中央機關也是跟我們說上面交代不可以送解凍案這當然我不是說那個部長您那邊\n805982\t822595\t那就讓我一個心裡有個感覺是什麼時候開始政治人物政務官竟然可以拿公務員以及國人當肉票來為了他搞一個政治上面的攻擊一個大罷免什麼時候今天我們台灣走到這個地步了\n823834\t846663\t因為今天這些我的同學跟國會聯絡人不同的同學他們之間沒有在勾串啦他們跟我講的都是同一個答案上面交代不可以送解凍案什麼時候國家走到今天這樣把人民的權益把公務員的權益來當作是一個政治攻擊就是要讓大家不懂的人能夠痛恨\n847663\t875937\t非執政黨的立委我覺得國家怎麼會走到今天這個地步好 那今天執政院長出來叫大家趕快送 大家就狂送當時我同學跟我講說 我還笑我同學說哇 那你們下半年喔預算執行率很低 大家要狂花錢欸因為上半年一直跟公務員跟國人講說我們的預算都被刪了 都沒錢 什麼都不能做然後下半年不知道狂用預算嗎 我還在那邊笑他們但是我心裡是難過的 為什麼國家可以\n876744\t897952\t完全罔顧人民的權益及公務員的權利只為了政治鬥爭你也不用跟我說沒有這件事情這個事情也有公務員出來爆料我想說最近你們也都有看到很多公務員也都出來爆料說他們的單位叫他們不可以送那還有\n900217\t917927\t教育部的人跟我說 教育部的好朋友跟我說教育部不開冷氣告訴他們 因為被藍白三光預算 不能開冷氣我的問題是 你公務員幹了三十年欸我想請問你一個問題啊就算預算不夠用 也是年底的事啊為什麼年初就不夠用我都已經在騙人嘛\n919605\t937192\t我說從來沒有這樣子啊然後他們有的三業務費是30%或多少%結果我們希望你不要把業務費拿去養網軍養特定媒體結果你告訴你的公務員說人家不給你開冷氣不給你馬桶沖水變成這樣所以我跟他們講一個我自己\n938573\t952400\t跟他們講 用一個簡單的例子來比喻小孩子學壞 媽媽刪了他抽菸喝酒吃檳榔的零用錢就小孩子跑去跟爸爸說媽媽把我吃飯錢刪光了我快餓死了 我血糖低了結果呢\n953516\t969923\t即使媽媽把她的零用錢刪掉一部分她的零用錢還是全班最有錢這就是現在的民進黨政府她拿到史上最高的預算還是最有錢然後告訴你什麼基礎的事都不能做這是我自己看到還有就是\n971293\t985885\t我認為啦 如果藍白真的如同民進黨所說的爛三預算那你拿到應該是史上最低的總預算啊怎麼會是拿到史上最高的總預算呢這是一個人類最基本的邏輯啊我今天要亂砍你的錢 你拿到應該是史上最低啊\n986625\t1002801\t我爸媽懲罰我小時候就是給我最少的零用錢讓我氣得要死啊怎麼會是我拿到史上最高的零用錢這都藍白亂算預算然後後來被人家掀出來說數字都沒有少還變多結果就說 欸怎麼不能留用開始這些鬼話全部都出來我現在看到的狀況都是這樣齁\n1005759\t1016223\t那最近發生很多事情就是你說沒衛生紙沒冷氣護照要用完一個一個被踢爆其實這都是讓我們人民對於政府的信任度真的越來越低啦更何況你辦護照還要繳費\n1023117\t1037965\t這兩天 今天有一個出來好像是哪一個部的他出來叫大家趕快補送預算結果他的通知是什麼請指示 以可將解凍報告發文自立法院什麼叫以可將\n1039178\t1052271\t那就是大家都準備好啦上面交代不可以送出來啊所以現在請大家宜可將這個可以開始送了那為什麼政府要這樣綁架全國的公務員跟罔顧全民的利益呢這樣這樣對嗎\n1056169\t1083647\t我覺得我自己很難過啦行政中立的部分我真的覺得還是希望不管政務官或一般的公務員真的要維持行政中立不是說不聽民進黨的新潮流人的話就是中共同步人所以最近呢陳水扁也變中共同步人啦林卓水也變中共同步人啦台大清大早就是中共同步人啦那我們只要不是投民進不支持民進黨的我們早就被貼什麼舔共什麼這國家已經走到今天這樣了耶\n1084648\t1101008\t然後本來行政中立是國家民主國家最根本一個骨幹的精神所以你看美國總統換成川普他國務院還是堅持他的做法就川普的政府那些人跟馬斯克說要刪美國政府30%的國家總預算怎麼沒有人說\n1102835\t1120061\t人民反而支持 結果沒有人民跳出來說你是不是中共同路人所以我覺得我們國家已經走到執政黨已經走到一個瘋狂的程度了甚至教育部長還出來說這罷免進入校園是言論自由什麼時候教育基本法已經被人這麼的不當一回事\n1121421\t1147166\t不好意思 最後給我兩分鐘司法院跟法務部司法院 我想請教一下你們去年去年政府公告總預算案是113年1月8號你記不記得司法院什麼時候送解凍案沒關係 時間關係我直接講司法院是113年1月19號\n1149483\t1170208\t1月8號公告市長院1月19號就開始送解凍案過來了那我想法務部長你可能也不知道法務部是1月30號就送來了而且一送來之後就解凍非常多解凍案只要一份報告來就解凍就今天我們政府是叫大家全部不要送解凍案因為讓大家痛恨覺得立法院就是爛三逸帥所以\n1171092\t1191460\t整整1381億卡了一個月真正讓行政自愛難行的是行政院院長自己所以我還是在這邊敬告政府啦就是很多事情只包不住火尤其是我們有很多同學都在各個中央機關他們都會跟我們講實話那也有很多人出來爆料所以\n1193385\t1214690\t我知道司法院跟你無關因為是行政院院長在幹這件事情但我覺得這蠻丟臉行政院院長為了要讓罷免能夠有效然後就開始搞這些東西我是覺得整兩個字叫丟臉行政院院長丟臉自己卡自己的預算然後要裝窮讓全國人來可憐他這個預算的問題我們再找時間跟委員做一個\n1219031\t1247581\t像那個檢察機關的那個那個做事統三的那個國內女會那部分已經發生了我跟你講部長你回去問你國兩司司長當時他想要出國立牌綜藝我跟你講我立牌綜藝就是要他們留下那些錢你不要搞錯你去問你的國兩司司長對然後你今天解凍案一個月都不送然後你是為了你的法務部好所以你一個月都不要送解凍案了解\n1248083\t1248747\t兩位我們先時間關係謝謝五位\n","txt":"麻煩全區部長 法務部長兩位好主要是這樣我們先跟部長請教一下因為部長剛剛講說釣魚站早上六點多去拜訪\n拜訪這個民眾啊那部長說這個是基隆人的習慣那部長可能沒有注意那我後來發現那個新聞已經開始在報這件事情那我想請教一下部長你認為基隆人的習慣是什麼意思為什麼要警察早上6點多去啊那個吊牢站早上6點多去\n因為其實這個是執行面的一個問題當然我們那時候是有我是有瞭解就是說考慮因為基農基農因為在外地工作上班的很多所以比較早起床所以因為路途要因為他在台北市或新北市來工作所以比較提前來送達船票所以讓被傳換對象當然可以斟酌說我那時候是不是要請假\n來接受這個訓問嘛所以這個其實是有考量到一個工作的一個情況一種比較體貼的一個做法但是如果說這個影響到這個當然我們是可以你的意思是說六點半就要把他帶走的意思嗎沒有帶走\n是傳喚 正常的通知 那個檢察官傳票的送達嗎那為什麼不能用一般的郵務送達到6點半不是怎麼帶走 這一份執行面我們是不是可以請調查局局長來我想請教一下局長 我們先釐清這件事情當天6點半帶檢察官的傳票去是要馬上把他帶走 還是只是告訴他何時要到庭應訊當然就是通知他 就通知他而已\n通知他什麼時候到庭應訊時間我具體的內容我就不曉得那我現在就我的疑問就在這裡如果第一個如果第一個檢察官是請調查官拿船票去找當事人請當事人跟著走我是沒有說具體喔請當事人跟著走那六點半到我家帶我走全家都嚇死了這第一個第二個如果檢察官是指示特定的時間到庭應訊那這個用一般遊牧送達就可以了為什麼一定要調查官去送達\n個案的執行方式跟執行的內容我們都依照檢察官的指揮跟部長還有局長報告一下我自己檢察官也幹那麼多年我怎麼沒有聽說過有人幹這種事情我跟兩位報告到場搜索有可能六點半到場拘停有可能六點半但是因為這兩個是必須施以強制力可是如果今天只是通知或者是傳喚民眾的話\n為什麼你早上6點半要送去呢就像那天在高雄你調查官你到現場一定要把某一個人帶走一樣那當然現場的民眾會開始會鬧哄哄嘛那我們台灣什麼時候走向這種\n讓大人民恐懼然後好像辦集全國家的感覺了調查官可以突然跑到我家來就把我帶走或是調查官來6點半來我家按門鈴那我們也不認為說基隆人跟我們什麼不一樣他們沒有必要說你叫基隆人所以你必須起的筆跡還要早沒有這種事情嗎我想這個是委員誤解啊對 剛剛部長不是這個意思剛剛部長說這個是基隆人的習性啊不是這個意思這個是\n這不是說生活習慣,我講說這是因為有考量到他一個工作的一個特性所以我們就在六點多,這是一個他們的一個傳辦的一個考量,這個不是我不是,就部長我剛講的,如果今天這些人是被害人,這些人不是被告\n我再跟兩位補充一下這些人是被害人那我請教一下當天調查官送過去的調查官的船票是立刻要帶走開庭還是改天開庭\n這個有記載他到的時間啊這個不是說來的話我就帶你去開庭對就是我剛剛講的嘛如果你今天是去要把這是一個傳票送達的一個時間嘛又不是什麼六點開庭六點半開庭部長我沒有說過這句話你不要誤解我的話你不要亂講\n部長 送達有送達的做法 送達有送達的慣例今天對於被害人 你早上六點半去送達然後你說這是基隆人的習慣 這我不認同啦這個我不會講說是基隆人 是考慮到基隆地區的工作的特性因為他在外地的工作可能會比較早一點出門\n那台北人也可能在外地工作,新北人也可能,那是不是以後全國的被害人我們不斷就點辦不動彈?當然如果說這個考量的話,我們考量說跟我們的事情...部長,部長,我不是外行人,部長,報告部長,我不是外行人,我們來這裡就講真話,好不好?\n沒有人在早上六點半去被害人家中送檢察官的船票啦部長有的話麻煩部長你跟我說過往有哪些例子這樣子所以這個個案這個是屬於我也尊重檢察官的但是如果說這樣的話引起大家的如果你說個案我接受啊全國的特例啊就像北檢的林俊賢檢察官會二十年沒有檢察官去視察過\n視察過醫院然後鄰居講大言不慚說他去醫院視察 一樣啊你今天就是在幹過往都沒有幹過的事情嘛報告部長如果你認為這是個案我可以接受啦那我們是不是就告訴以後所有的人你不能這樣做你這老民你在恐嚇基隆人嘛這部分我已經請這個檢察官在斟酌那個\n去符合我們更溫暖的一個做法台灣什麼時候變成今天這樣我一直以為說我一直以來我認為司法是來對付壞人的什麼時候變成政治工具了我一直以來我認為國安法是對付那些境外勢力了什麼時候來對付的都是善良百姓這些年怎麼會變成這樣子啊我當年從社會觀訓練所結訓的時候我對司法的夢想不是今天這樣欸\n這會讓很多司法人員難過啦其實我現在也知道北檢北檢裡面自己對於懲辦審慶金還有柯文貞都有兩個不同很極端的想法啦更何況北檢以外的那我覺得部長我們都是要希望說留下好的名聲給大家探聽啦如果說跟著政治人物這樣玩\n不是司法人員該有的樣子我想跟委員報告我們不是跟政治人員玩啦我們不會跟政治人員玩啦好 沒關係我想說我想說給我們委員 給我們的指教我們都會深切檢討就像委員講這個我們回去有跟他交代說是不是可以更溫暖 更體貼的一個做法不是講政治人物玩我們沒有跟政治人物玩這件事情對於我們國家的警察官 法官\n警察 調查官 廉政官其實我都非常的尊重因為這些人以前是陪著我從年輕到現在 一路大家都是一起作戰的戰友所以我也不能去苛責誰啦當然我要把一些有問題的制度拿出來更何況說我覺得今天的一些做法其實造成寒蟬效應你不要講別人 你早上六點半去被害人家送船票你會讓這些人真的會很害怕\n然後你一個調查官跑來一定要帶我走然後他沒有他雖然有出示證件但他也沒有拿任何G票或什麼我也會害怕所以搞到最後為什麼很多人說現在變成寒蟬效應啊司法跟整個行政機關好像在對付民眾\n這個我想說大家要釐清啦那當然有一些政客他們對於很多事情都在亂講亂帶風向譬如說我們都426我們一個集會然後就會有人說你違照文書沒有違法嗎其實我們一直在講的是執法的不公的問題我們一直聚焦在執法的不公就像剛剛講說翁曉琳委員自己也說違照文書違法那為什麼現在大家可以抗議這個\n我覺得這是亂帶風向那這些人他也念過法律他不是不懂但他今天來這裡很多政客來這裡就是在騙人民嘛一直騙啊\n從來沒有人說過偽造文書是合法我們都認為違法 該辦就辦但是我們認為執法要公平不要讓人民造成寒蟬效應這個執法公平 我已經一再強調檢察官絕對是勿枉勿重 不分黨派 沒有一時的立場這個是要精神檢驗的謝謝部長部長講這些話是我心裡的話 但是我希望\n大家都能做到那另外其實剛剛吳孝遠也講錯一個東西他還沒講說韓國瑜罷免案然後什麼幾個死人連署其實我一直覺得奇怪偽造文書一個行為也是偽造文書啊這跟人數多少有什麼關係大家現在很喜歡比較啊罷蘭的死人連署比例多少罷綠的死人連署比例才多少所以你罷蘭的該死罷綠的好棒棒\n我覺得這莫名其妙嘛 犯罪行為 犯罪就犯罪啊 還要來比人數的高低更何況 甘吾士要來講錯啊韓國瑜案子 高雄地檢署的不起訴處分書他是認為罷免的那個收件的團體 他沒有這個辨識是否是違簽的這個能力嘛這跟數量比例這有什麼關聯性\n所以我覺得這些政客們最糟糕的就是他一直在誤導人民一直在帶風向亂扯一通他自己不是不懂但是就要讓自己假裝不懂然後來到處騙人民所以我現在看到的狀況然後我剛剛提到的就是說司法執行為什麼我們有很多意見因為司法的執行它有一個比例原則嘛手段目的的比例原則問題那我們現在認為說你今天你辦詐騙集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛啦\n對不對然後你辦犯罪集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛你辦那些財產犯罪的那些洗錢掏空的你就沒有從來沒有這麼猛這麼用力過但是你今天配合的政治人物在玩這些人的時候你忘了手段跟目的在法律上面有個最基本的東西叫做比例原則然後你就說這東西構成犯罪啊我可以不抓嗎但是你不是啊你今天\n大搜索然後大羈押然後我真的不知道在做什麼然後我覺得最離譜的是北檢北檢你搜索完國民黨的台北市黨部就算了你申請羈押黨部主委的理由竟然是因為他是那兩個黨工的\n的老闆所以他一定知情所以推定他知情所以被北院打臉嘛我現在講的是北院的裁定理由因為我沒有看卷但是我講的是北院的裁定理由我再補充一次我講的是北院的裁定理由不是我個人的臆測所以被打臉也是難怪啦\n不好意思我可能耽誤時間會比較多我們再提一下就是我想請問施部長 施部長不好意思我請教一個問題雖然我也是都蠻尊敬您的那您上次有提到就是我們在談那個行政中立的時候您有提到說就法律的精神政務官不可以動用公家資源去從事政黨活動跟政治活動我想這個沒有錯吧\n那我在這邊也再跟各位報告一件事我們的行政中立法他雖然沒有包含到政務官但是他的立法理由寫得很清楚政務官不是沒有行政中立的義務而是要另立專法部長我有沒有講錯\n沒有錯 我想委員上次有指教過立法說明所以我們這些政務官千萬不能說我沒有行政總理的義務而是今天 我不懂為什麼這麼多年下來 我們這個專法到現在還沒有立出來\n我們這次有做一個解凍的儀表板也就是說從3月21號政府公布的國家總預算到今天其實還沒有任何一個人送解凍的案子過來這個都有別於過往\n那以前喔 大家都是趕快來請立法院排解凍就到今天 大家都不送拖了一個多月 其實這個還蠻離譜但是我要跟各位報告一件事就像我們念法律 我們非常多的同學都現在在中央機關或是各地方的縣市機關他們會跟我們講實際情況是什麼啊\n那我們有認識一些比較熟的國會人士私下也會跟我們講就上面要求不可以送解凍案我自己的同學三四十年的好朋友同學在中央機關也是跟我們說上面交代不可以送解凍案這當然我不是說那個部長您那邊\n那就讓我一個心裡有個感覺是什麼時候開始政治人物政務官竟然可以拿公務員以及國人當肉票來為了他搞一個政治上面的攻擊一個大罷免什麼時候今天我們台灣走到這個地步了\n因為今天這些我的同學跟國會聯絡人不同的同學他們之間沒有在勾串啦他們跟我講的都是同一個答案上面交代不可以送解凍案什麼時候國家走到今天這樣把人民的權益把公務員的權益來當作是一個政治攻擊就是要讓大家不懂的人能夠痛恨\n非執政黨的立委我覺得國家怎麼會走到今天這個地步好 那今天執政院長出來叫大家趕快送 大家就狂送當時我同學跟我講說 我還笑我同學說哇 那你們下半年喔預算執行率很低 大家要狂花錢欸因為上半年一直跟公務員跟國人講說我們的預算都被刪了 都沒錢 什麼都不能做然後下半年不知道狂用預算嗎 我還在那邊笑他們但是我心裡是難過的 為什麼國家可以\n完全罔顧人民的權益及公務員的權利只為了政治鬥爭你也不用跟我說沒有這件事情這個事情也有公務員出來爆料我想說最近你們也都有看到很多公務員也都出來爆料說他們的單位叫他們不可以送那還有\n教育部的人跟我說 教育部的好朋友跟我說教育部不開冷氣告訴他們 因為被藍白三光預算 不能開冷氣我的問題是 你公務員幹了三十年欸我想請問你一個問題啊就算預算不夠用 也是年底的事啊為什麼年初就不夠用我都已經在騙人嘛\n我說從來沒有這樣子啊然後他們有的三業務費是30%或多少%結果我們希望你不要把業務費拿去養網軍養特定媒體結果你告訴你的公務員說人家不給你開冷氣不給你馬桶沖水變成這樣所以我跟他們講一個我自己\n跟他們講 用一個簡單的例子來比喻小孩子學壞 媽媽刪了他抽菸喝酒吃檳榔的零用錢就小孩子跑去跟爸爸說媽媽把我吃飯錢刪光了我快餓死了 我血糖低了結果呢\n即使媽媽把她的零用錢刪掉一部分她的零用錢還是全班最有錢這就是現在的民進黨政府她拿到史上最高的預算還是最有錢然後告訴你什麼基礎的事都不能做這是我自己看到還有就是\n我認為啦 如果藍白真的如同民進黨所說的爛三預算那你拿到應該是史上最低的總預算啊怎麼會是拿到史上最高的總預算呢這是一個人類最基本的邏輯啊我今天要亂砍你的錢 你拿到應該是史上最低啊\n我爸媽懲罰我小時候就是給我最少的零用錢讓我氣得要死啊怎麼會是我拿到史上最高的零用錢這都藍白亂算預算然後後來被人家掀出來說數字都沒有少還變多結果就說 欸怎麼不能留用開始這些鬼話全部都出來我現在看到的狀況都是這樣齁\n那最近發生很多事情就是你說沒衛生紙沒冷氣護照要用完一個一個被踢爆其實這都是讓我們人民對於政府的信任度真的越來越低啦更何況你辦護照還要繳費\n這兩天 今天有一個出來好像是哪一個部的他出來叫大家趕快補送預算結果他的通知是什麼請指示 以可將解凍報告發文自立法院什麼叫以可將\n那就是大家都準備好啦上面交代不可以送出來啊所以現在請大家宜可將這個可以開始送了那為什麼政府要這樣綁架全國的公務員跟罔顧全民的利益呢這樣這樣對嗎\n我覺得我自己很難過啦行政中立的部分我真的覺得還是希望不管政務官或一般的公務員真的要維持行政中立不是說不聽民進黨的新潮流人的話就是中共同步人所以最近呢陳水扁也變中共同步人啦林卓水也變中共同步人啦台大清大早就是中共同步人啦那我們只要不是投民進不支持民進黨的我們早就被貼什麼舔共什麼這國家已經走到今天這樣了耶\n然後本來行政中立是國家民主國家最根本一個骨幹的精神所以你看美國總統換成川普他國務院還是堅持他的做法就川普的政府那些人跟馬斯克說要刪美國政府30%的國家總預算怎麼沒有人說\n人民反而支持 結果沒有人民跳出來說你是不是中共同路人所以我覺得我們國家已經走到執政黨已經走到一個瘋狂的程度了甚至教育部長還出來說這罷免進入校園是言論自由什麼時候教育基本法已經被人這麼的不當一回事\n不好意思 最後給我兩分鐘司法院跟法務部司法院 我想請教一下你們去年去年政府公告總預算案是113年1月8號你記不記得司法院什麼時候送解凍案沒關係 時間關係我直接講司法院是113年1月19號\n1月8號公告市長院1月19號就開始送解凍案過來了那我想法務部長你可能也不知道法務部是1月30號就送來了而且一送來之後就解凍非常多解凍案只要一份報告來就解凍就今天我們政府是叫大家全部不要送解凍案因為讓大家痛恨覺得立法院就是爛三逸帥所以\n整整1381億卡了一個月真正讓行政自愛難行的是行政院院長自己所以我還是在這邊敬告政府啦就是很多事情只包不住火尤其是我們有很多同學都在各個中央機關他們都會跟我們講實話那也有很多人出來爆料所以\n我知道司法院跟你無關因為是行政院院長在幹這件事情但我覺得這蠻丟臉行政院院長為了要讓罷免能夠有效然後就開始搞這些東西我是覺得整兩個字叫丟臉行政院院長丟臉自己卡自己的預算然後要裝窮讓全國人來可憐他這個預算的問題我們再找時間跟委員做一個\n像那個檢察機關的那個那個做事統三的那個國內女會那部分已經發生了我跟你講部長你回去問你國兩司司長當時他想要出國立牌綜藝我跟你講我立牌綜藝就是要他們留下那些錢你不要搞錯你去問你的國兩司司長對然後你今天解凍案一個月都不送然後你是為了你的法務部好所以你一個月都不要送解凍案了解\n兩位我們先時間關係謝謝五位\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:27.737\n麻煩全區部長法務部長兩位好主要是這樣我們先跟部長請教一下因為部長剛剛講說釣魚站早上六點多去拜訪\n\n00:28.988 --> 00:48.625\n拜訪這個民眾啊那部長說這個是基隆人的習慣那部長可能沒有注意那我後來發現那個新聞已經開始在報這件事情那我想請教一下部長你認為基隆人的習慣是什麼意思為什麼要警察早上6點多去啊那個吊牢站早上6點多去\n\n00:49.412 --> 01:15.208\n因為其實這個是執行面的一個問題當然我們那時候是有我是有瞭解就是說考慮因為基農基農因為在外地工作上班的很多所以比較早起床所以因為路途要因為他在台北市或新北市來工作所以比較提前來送達船票所以讓被傳換對象當然可以斟酌說我那時候是不是要請假\n\n01:16.789 --> 01:31.908\n來接受這個訓問嘛所以這個其實是有考量到一個工作的一個情況一種比較體貼的一個做法但是如果說這個影響到這個當然我們是可以你的意思是說六點半就要把他帶走的意思嗎沒有帶走\n\n01:32.108 --> 01:59.091\n是傳喚正常的通知那個檢察官傳票的送達嗎那為什麼不能用一般的郵務送達到6點半不是怎麼帶走這一份執行面我們是不是可以請調查局局長來我想請教一下局長我們先釐清這件事情當天6點半帶檢察官的傳票去是要馬上把他帶走還是只是告訴他何時要到庭應訊當然就是通知他就通知他而已\n\n01:59.571 --> 02:28.713\n通知他什麼時候到庭應訊時間我具體的內容我就不曉得那我現在就我的疑問就在這裡如果第一個如果第一個檢察官是請調查官拿船票去找當事人請當事人跟著走我是沒有說具體喔請當事人跟著走那六點半到我家帶我走全家都嚇死了這第一個第二個如果檢察官是指示特定的時間到庭應訊那這個用一般遊牧送達就可以了為什麼一定要調查官去送達\n\n02:29.934 --> 02:54.439\n個案的執行方式跟執行的內容我們都依照檢察官的指揮跟部長還有局長報告一下我自己檢察官也幹那麼多年我怎麼沒有聽說過有人幹這種事情我跟兩位報告到場搜索有可能六點半到場拘停有可能六點半但是因為這兩個是必須施以強制力可是如果今天只是通知或者是傳喚民眾的話\n\n02:57.279 --> 03:11.681\n為什麼你早上6點半要送去呢就像那天在高雄你調查官你到現場一定要把某一個人帶走一樣那當然現場的民眾會開始會鬧哄哄嘛那我們台灣什麼時候走向這種\n\n03:13.514 --> 03:39.660\n讓大人民恐懼然後好像辦集全國家的感覺了調查官可以突然跑到我家來就把我帶走或是調查官來6點半來我家按門鈴那我們也不認為說基隆人跟我們什麼不一樣他們沒有必要說你叫基隆人所以你必須起的筆跡還要早沒有這種事情嗎我想這個是委員誤解啊對剛剛部長不是這個意思剛剛部長說這個是基隆人的習性啊不是這個意思這個是\n\n03:40.280 --> 04:00.902\n這不是說生活習慣,我講說這是因為有考量到他一個工作的一個特性所以我們就在六點多,這是一個他們的一個傳辦的一個考量,這個不是我不是,就部長我剛講的,如果今天這些人是被害人,這些人不是被告\n\n04:02.023 --> 04:15.209\n我再跟兩位補充一下這些人是被害人那我請教一下當天調查官送過去的調查官的船票是立刻要帶走開庭還是改天開庭\n\n04:18.858 --> 04:37.055\n這個有記載他到的時間啊這個不是說來的話我就帶你去開庭對就是我剛剛講的嘛如果你今天是去要把這是一個傳票送達的一個時間嘛又不是什麼六點開庭六點半開庭部長我沒有說過這句話你不要誤解我的話你不要亂講\n\n04:41.039 --> 04:58.972\n部長送達有送達的做法送達有送達的慣例今天對於被害人你早上六點半去送達然後你說這是基隆人的習慣這我不認同啦這個我不會講說是基隆人是考慮到基隆地區的工作的特性因為他在外地的工作可能會比較早一點出門\n\n05:00.574 --> 05:15.842\n那台北人也可能在外地工作,新北人也可能,那是不是以後全國的被害人我們不斷就點辦不動彈?當然如果說這個考量的話,我們考量說跟我們的事情...部長,部長,我不是外行人,部長,報告部長,我不是外行人,我們來這裡就講真話,好不好?\n\n05:21.545 --> 05:45.235\n沒有人在早上六點半去被害人家中送檢察官的船票啦部長有的話麻煩部長你跟我說過往有哪些例子這樣子所以這個個案這個是屬於我也尊重檢察官的但是如果說這樣的話引起大家的如果你說個案我接受啊全國的特例啊就像北檢的林俊賢檢察官會二十年沒有檢察官去視察過\n\n05:46.335 --> 06:06.628\n視察過醫院然後鄰居講大言不慚說他去醫院視察一樣啊你今天就是在幹過往都沒有幹過的事情嘛報告部長如果你認為這是個案我可以接受啦那我們是不是就告訴以後所有的人你不能這樣做你這老民你在恐嚇基隆人嘛這部分我已經請這個檢察官在斟酌那個\n\n06:10.894 --> 06:38.926\n去符合我們更溫暖的一個做法台灣什麼時候變成今天這樣我一直以為說我一直以來我認為司法是來對付壞人的什麼時候變成政治工具了我一直以來我認為國安法是對付那些境外勢力了什麼時候來對付的都是善良百姓這些年怎麼會變成這樣子啊我當年從社會觀訓練所結訓的時候我對司法的夢想不是今天這樣欸\n\n06:43.206 --> 07:02.337\n這會讓很多司法人員難過啦其實我現在也知道北檢北檢裡面自己對於懲辦審慶金還有柯文貞都有兩個不同很極端的想法啦更何況北檢以外的那我覺得部長我們都是要希望說留下好的名聲給大家探聽啦如果說跟著政治人物這樣玩\n\n07:03.462 --> 07:27.310\n不是司法人員該有的樣子我想跟委員報告我們不是跟政治人員玩啦我們不會跟政治人員玩啦好沒關係我想說我想說給我們委員給我們的指教我們都會深切檢討就像委員講這個我們回去有跟他交代說是不是可以更溫暖更體貼的一個做法不是講政治人物玩我們沒有跟政治人物玩這件事情對於我們國家的警察官法官\n\n07:28.030 --> 07:51.979\n警察調查官廉政官其實我都非常的尊重因為這些人以前是陪著我從年輕到現在一路大家都是一起作戰的戰友所以我也不能去苛責誰啦當然我要把一些有問題的制度拿出來更何況說我覺得今天的一些做法其實造成寒蟬效應你不要講別人你早上六點半去被害人家送船票你會讓這些人真的會很害怕\n\n07:53.052 --> 08:08.844\n然後你一個調查官跑來一定要帶我走然後他沒有他雖然有出示證件但他也沒有拿任何G票或什麼我也會害怕所以搞到最後為什麼很多人說現在變成寒蟬效應啊司法跟整個行政機關好像在對付民眾\n\n08:10.665 --> 08:33.974\n這個我想說大家要釐清啦那當然有一些政客他們對於很多事情都在亂講亂帶風向譬如說我們都426我們一個集會然後就會有人說你違照文書沒有違法嗎其實我們一直在講的是執法的不公的問題我們一直聚焦在執法的不公就像剛剛講說翁曉琳委員自己也說違照文書違法那為什麼現在大家可以抗議這個\n\n08:35.871 --> 08:43.720\n我覺得這是亂帶風向那這些人他也念過法律他不是不懂但他今天來這裡很多政客來這裡就是在騙人民嘛一直騙啊\n\n08:46.027 --> 09:01.038\n從來沒有人說過偽造文書是合法我們都認為違法該辦就辦但是我們認為執法要公平不要讓人民造成寒蟬效應這個執法公平我已經一再強調檢察官絕對是勿枉勿重不分黨派沒有一時的立場這個是要精神檢驗的謝謝部長部長講這些話是我心裡的話但是我希望\n\n09:11.192 --> 09:34.177\n大家都能做到那另外其實剛剛吳孝遠也講錯一個東西他還沒講說韓國瑜罷免案然後什麼幾個死人連署其實我一直覺得奇怪偽造文書一個行為也是偽造文書啊這跟人數多少有什麼關係大家現在很喜歡比較啊罷蘭的死人連署比例多少罷綠的死人連署比例才多少所以你罷蘭的該死罷綠的好棒棒\n\n09:35.609 --> 09:58.270\n我覺得這莫名其妙嘛犯罪行為犯罪就犯罪啊還要來比人數的高低更何況甘吾士要來講錯啊韓國瑜案子高雄地檢署的不起訴處分書他是認為罷免的那個收件的團體他沒有這個辨識是否是違簽的這個能力嘛這跟數量比例這有什麼關聯性\n\n10:00.117 --> 10:23.988\n所以我覺得這些政客們最糟糕的就是他一直在誤導人民一直在帶風向亂扯一通他自己不是不懂但是就要讓自己假裝不懂然後來到處騙人民所以我現在看到的狀況然後我剛剛提到的就是說司法執行為什麼我們有很多意見因為司法的執行它有一個比例原則嘛手段目的的比例原則問題那我們現在認為說你今天你辦詐騙集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛啦\n\n10:29.978 --> 10:54.859\n對不對然後你辦犯罪集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛你辦那些財產犯罪的那些洗錢掏空的你就沒有從來沒有這麼猛這麼用力過但是你今天配合的政治人物在玩這些人的時候你忘了手段跟目的在法律上面有個最基本的東西叫做比例原則然後你就說這東西構成犯罪啊我可以不抓嗎但是你不是啊你今天\n\n10:55.882 --> 11:09.787\n大搜索然後大羈押然後我真的不知道在做什麼然後我覺得最離譜的是北檢北檢你搜索完國民黨的台北市黨部就算了你申請羈押黨部主委的理由竟然是因為他是那兩個黨工的\n\n11:12.250 --> 11:31.104\n的老闆所以他一定知情所以推定他知情所以被北院打臉嘛我現在講的是北院的裁定理由因為我沒有看卷但是我講的是北院的裁定理由我再補充一次我講的是北院的裁定理由不是我個人的臆測所以被打臉也是難怪啦\n\n11:34.754 --> 11:57.775\n不好意思我可能耽誤時間會比較多我們再提一下就是我想請問施部長施部長不好意思我請教一個問題雖然我也是都蠻尊敬您的那您上次有提到就是我們在談那個行政中立的時候您有提到說就法律的精神政務官不可以動用公家資源去從事政黨活動跟政治活動我想這個沒有錯吧\n\n11:58.556 --> 12:13.602\n那我在這邊也再跟各位報告一件事我們的行政中立法他雖然沒有包含到政務官但是他的立法理由寫得很清楚政務官不是沒有行政中立的義務而是要另立專法部長我有沒有講錯\n\n12:15.523 --> 12:32.378\n沒有錯我想委員上次有指教過立法說明所以我們這些政務官千萬不能說我沒有行政總理的義務而是今天我不懂為什麼這麼多年下來我們這個專法到現在還沒有立出來\n\n12:36.780 --> 12:49.467\n我們這次有做一個解凍的儀表板也就是說從3月21號政府公布的國家總預算到今天其實還沒有任何一個人送解凍的案子過來這個都有別於過往\n\n12:51.008 --> 13:06.681\n那以前喔大家都是趕快來請立法院排解凍就到今天大家都不送拖了一個多月其實這個還蠻離譜但是我要跟各位報告一件事就像我們念法律我們非常多的同學都現在在中央機關或是各地方的縣市機關他們會跟我們講實際情況是什麼啊\n\n13:10.100 --> 13:25.021\n那我們有認識一些比較熟的國會人士私下也會跟我們講就上面要求不可以送解凍案我自己的同學三四十年的好朋友同學在中央機關也是跟我們說上面交代不可以送解凍案這當然我不是說那個部長您那邊\n\n13:25.982 --> 13:42.595\n那就讓我一個心裡有個感覺是什麼時候開始政治人物政務官竟然可以拿公務員以及國人當肉票來為了他搞一個政治上面的攻擊一個大罷免什麼時候今天我們台灣走到這個地步了\n\n13:43.834 --> 14:06.663\n因為今天這些我的同學跟國會聯絡人不同的同學他們之間沒有在勾串啦他們跟我講的都是同一個答案上面交代不可以送解凍案什麼時候國家走到今天這樣把人民的權益把公務員的權益來當作是一個政治攻擊就是要讓大家不懂的人能夠痛恨\n\n14:07.663 --> 14:35.937\n非執政黨的立委我覺得國家怎麼會走到今天這個地步好那今天執政院長出來叫大家趕快送大家就狂送當時我同學跟我講說我還笑我同學說哇那你們下半年喔預算執行率很低大家要狂花錢欸因為上半年一直跟公務員跟國人講說我們的預算都被刪了都沒錢什麼都不能做然後下半年不知道狂用預算嗎我還在那邊笑他們但是我心裡是難過的為什麼國家可以\n\n14:36.744 --> 14:57.952\n完全罔顧人民的權益及公務員的權利只為了政治鬥爭你也不用跟我說沒有這件事情這個事情也有公務員出來爆料我想說最近你們也都有看到很多公務員也都出來爆料說他們的單位叫他們不可以送那還有\n\n15:00.217 --> 15:17.927\n教育部的人跟我說教育部的好朋友跟我說教育部不開冷氣告訴他們因為被藍白三光預算不能開冷氣我的問題是你公務員幹了三十年欸我想請問你一個問題啊就算預算不夠用也是年底的事啊為什麼年初就不夠用我都已經在騙人嘛\n\n15:19.605 --> 15:37.192\n我說從來沒有這樣子啊然後他們有的三業務費是30%或多少%結果我們希望你不要把業務費拿去養網軍養特定媒體結果你告訴你的公務員說人家不給你開冷氣不給你馬桶沖水變成這樣所以我跟他們講一個我自己\n\n15:38.573 --> 15:52.400\n跟他們講用一個簡單的例子來比喻小孩子學壞媽媽刪了他抽菸喝酒吃檳榔的零用錢就小孩子跑去跟爸爸說媽媽把我吃飯錢刪光了我快餓死了我血糖低了結果呢\n\n15:53.516 --> 16:09.923\n即使媽媽把她的零用錢刪掉一部分她的零用錢還是全班最有錢這就是現在的民進黨政府她拿到史上最高的預算還是最有錢然後告訴你什麼基礎的事都不能做這是我自己看到還有就是\n\n16:11.293 --> 16:25.885\n我認為啦如果藍白真的如同民進黨所說的爛三預算那你拿到應該是史上最低的總預算啊怎麼會是拿到史上最高的總預算呢這是一個人類最基本的邏輯啊我今天要亂砍你的錢你拿到應該是史上最低啊\n\n16:26.625 --> 16:42.801\n我爸媽懲罰我小時候就是給我最少的零用錢讓我氣得要死啊怎麼會是我拿到史上最高的零用錢這都藍白亂算預算然後後來被人家掀出來說數字都沒有少還變多結果就說欸怎麼不能留用開始這些鬼話全部都出來我現在看到的狀況都是這樣齁\n\n16:45.759 --> 16:56.223\n那最近發生很多事情就是你說沒衛生紙沒冷氣護照要用完一個一個被踢爆其實這都是讓我們人民對於政府的信任度真的越來越低啦更何況你辦護照還要繳費\n\n17:03.117 --> 17:17.965\n這兩天今天有一個出來好像是哪一個部的他出來叫大家趕快補送預算結果他的通知是什麼請指示以可將解凍報告發文自立法院什麼叫以可將\n\n17:19.178 --> 17:32.271\n那就是大家都準備好啦上面交代不可以送出來啊所以現在請大家宜可將這個可以開始送了那為什麼政府要這樣綁架全國的公務員跟罔顧全民的利益呢這樣這樣對嗎\n\n17:36.169 --> 18:03.647\n我覺得我自己很難過啦行政中立的部分我真的覺得還是希望不管政務官或一般的公務員真的要維持行政中立不是說不聽民進黨的新潮流人的話就是中共同步人所以最近呢陳水扁也變中共同步人啦林卓水也變中共同步人啦台大清大早就是中共同步人啦那我們只要不是投民進不支持民進黨的我們早就被貼什麼舔共什麼這國家已經走到今天這樣了耶\n\n18:04.648 --> 18:21.008\n然後本來行政中立是國家民主國家最根本一個骨幹的精神所以你看美國總統換成川普他國務院還是堅持他的做法就川普的政府那些人跟馬斯克說要刪美國政府30%的國家總預算怎麼沒有人說\n\n18:22.835 --> 18:40.061\n人民反而支持結果沒有人民跳出來說你是不是中共同路人所以我覺得我們國家已經走到執政黨已經走到一個瘋狂的程度了甚至教育部長還出來說這罷免進入校園是言論自由什麼時候教育基本法已經被人這麼的不當一回事\n\n18:41.421 --> 19:07.166\n不好意思最後給我兩分鐘司法院跟法務部司法院我想請教一下你們去年去年政府公告總預算案是113年1月8號你記不記得司法院什麼時候送解凍案沒關係時間關係我直接講司法院是113年1月19號\n\n19:09.483 --> 19:30.208\n1月8號公告市長院1月19號就開始送解凍案過來了那我想法務部長你可能也不知道法務部是1月30號就送來了而且一送來之後就解凍非常多解凍案只要一份報告來就解凍就今天我們政府是叫大家全部不要送解凍案因為讓大家痛恨覺得立法院就是爛三逸帥所以\n\n19:31.092 --> 19:51.460\n整整1381億卡了一個月真正讓行政自愛難行的是行政院院長自己所以我還是在這邊敬告政府啦就是很多事情只包不住火尤其是我們有很多同學都在各個中央機關他們都會跟我們講實話那也有很多人出來爆料所以\n\n19:53.385 --> 20:14.690\n我知道司法院跟你無關因為是行政院院長在幹這件事情但我覺得這蠻丟臉行政院院長為了要讓罷免能夠有效然後就開始搞這些東西我是覺得整兩個字叫丟臉行政院院長丟臉自己卡自己的預算然後要裝窮讓全國人來可憐他這個預算的問題我們再找時間跟委員做一個\n\n20:19.031 --> 20:47.581\n像那個檢察機關的那個那個做事統三的那個國內女會那部分已經發生了我跟你講部長你回去問你國兩司司長當時他想要出國立牌綜藝我跟你講我立牌綜藝就是要他們留下那些錢你不要搞錯你去問你的國兩司司長對然後你今天解凍案一個月都不送然後你是為了你的法務部好所以你一個月都不要送解凍案了解\n\n20:48.083 --> 20:48.747\n兩位我們先時間關係謝謝五位\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":27.737,"text":"麻煩全區部長 法務部長兩位好主要是這樣我們先跟部長請教一下因為部長剛剛講說釣魚站早上六點多去拜訪"},{"start":28.988,"end":48.625,"text":"拜訪這個民眾啊那部長說這個是基隆人的習慣那部長可能沒有注意那我後來發現那個新聞已經開始在報這件事情那我想請教一下部長你認為基隆人的習慣是什麼意思為什麼要警察早上6點多去啊那個吊牢站早上6點多去"},{"start":49.412,"end":75.208,"text":"因為其實這個是執行面的一個問題當然我們那時候是有我是有瞭解就是說考慮因為基農基農因為在外地工作上班的很多所以比較早起床所以因為路途要因為他在台北市或新北市來工作所以比較提前來送達船票所以讓被傳換對象當然可以斟酌說我那時候是不是要請假"},{"start":76.789,"end":91.908,"text":"來接受這個訓問嘛所以這個其實是有考量到一個工作的一個情況一種比較體貼的一個做法但是如果說這個影響到這個當然我們是可以你的意思是說六點半就要把他帶走的意思嗎沒有帶走"},{"start":92.108,"end":119.091,"text":"是傳喚 正常的通知 那個檢察官傳票的送達嗎那為什麼不能用一般的郵務送達到6點半不是怎麼帶走 這一份執行面我們是不是可以請調查局局長來我想請教一下局長 我們先釐清這件事情當天6點半帶檢察官的傳票去是要馬上把他帶走 還是只是告訴他何時要到庭應訊當然就是通知他 就通知他而已"},{"start":119.571,"end":148.713,"text":"通知他什麼時候到庭應訊時間我具體的內容我就不曉得那我現在就我的疑問就在這裡如果第一個如果第一個檢察官是請調查官拿船票去找當事人請當事人跟著走我是沒有說具體喔請當事人跟著走那六點半到我家帶我走全家都嚇死了這第一個第二個如果檢察官是指示特定的時間到庭應訊那這個用一般遊牧送達就可以了為什麼一定要調查官去送達"},{"start":149.934,"end":174.439,"text":"個案的執行方式跟執行的內容我們都依照檢察官的指揮跟部長還有局長報告一下我自己檢察官也幹那麼多年我怎麼沒有聽說過有人幹這種事情我跟兩位報告到場搜索有可能六點半到場拘停有可能六點半但是因為這兩個是必須施以強制力可是如果今天只是通知或者是傳喚民眾的話"},{"start":177.279,"end":191.681,"text":"為什麼你早上6點半要送去呢就像那天在高雄你調查官你到現場一定要把某一個人帶走一樣那當然現場的民眾會開始會鬧哄哄嘛那我們台灣什麼時候走向這種"},{"start":193.514,"end":219.66,"text":"讓大人民恐懼然後好像辦集全國家的感覺了調查官可以突然跑到我家來就把我帶走或是調查官來6點半來我家按門鈴那我們也不認為說基隆人跟我們什麼不一樣他們沒有必要說你叫基隆人所以你必須起的筆跡還要早沒有這種事情嗎我想這個是委員誤解啊對 剛剛部長不是這個意思剛剛部長說這個是基隆人的習性啊不是這個意思這個是"},{"start":220.28,"end":240.902,"text":"這不是說生活習慣,我講說這是因為有考量到他一個工作的一個特性所以我們就在六點多,這是一個他們的一個傳辦的一個考量,這個不是我不是,就部長我剛講的,如果今天這些人是被害人,這些人不是被告"},{"start":242.023,"end":255.209,"text":"我再跟兩位補充一下這些人是被害人那我請教一下當天調查官送過去的調查官的船票是立刻要帶走開庭還是改天開庭"},{"start":258.858,"end":277.055,"text":"這個有記載他到的時間啊這個不是說來的話我就帶你去開庭對就是我剛剛講的嘛如果你今天是去要把這是一個傳票送達的一個時間嘛又不是什麼六點開庭六點半開庭部長我沒有說過這句話你不要誤解我的話你不要亂講"},{"start":281.039,"end":298.972,"text":"部長 送達有送達的做法 送達有送達的慣例今天對於被害人 你早上六點半去送達然後你說這是基隆人的習慣 這我不認同啦這個我不會講說是基隆人 是考慮到基隆地區的工作的特性因為他在外地的工作可能會比較早一點出門"},{"start":300.574,"end":315.842,"text":"那台北人也可能在外地工作,新北人也可能,那是不是以後全國的被害人我們不斷就點辦不動彈?當然如果說這個考量的話,我們考量說跟我們的事情...部長,部長,我不是外行人,部長,報告部長,我不是外行人,我們來這裡就講真話,好不好?"},{"start":321.545,"end":345.235,"text":"沒有人在早上六點半去被害人家中送檢察官的船票啦部長有的話麻煩部長你跟我說過往有哪些例子這樣子所以這個個案這個是屬於我也尊重檢察官的但是如果說這樣的話引起大家的如果你說個案我接受啊全國的特例啊就像北檢的林俊賢檢察官會二十年沒有檢察官去視察過"},{"start":346.335,"end":366.628,"text":"視察過醫院然後鄰居講大言不慚說他去醫院視察 一樣啊你今天就是在幹過往都沒有幹過的事情嘛報告部長如果你認為這是個案我可以接受啦那我們是不是就告訴以後所有的人你不能這樣做你這老民你在恐嚇基隆人嘛這部分我已經請這個檢察官在斟酌那個"},{"start":370.894,"end":398.926,"text":"去符合我們更溫暖的一個做法台灣什麼時候變成今天這樣我一直以為說我一直以來我認為司法是來對付壞人的什麼時候變成政治工具了我一直以來我認為國安法是對付那些境外勢力了什麼時候來對付的都是善良百姓這些年怎麼會變成這樣子啊我當年從社會觀訓練所結訓的時候我對司法的夢想不是今天這樣欸"},{"start":403.206,"end":422.337,"text":"這會讓很多司法人員難過啦其實我現在也知道北檢北檢裡面自己對於懲辦審慶金還有柯文貞都有兩個不同很極端的想法啦更何況北檢以外的那我覺得部長我們都是要希望說留下好的名聲給大家探聽啦如果說跟著政治人物這樣玩"},{"start":423.462,"end":447.31,"text":"不是司法人員該有的樣子我想跟委員報告我們不是跟政治人員玩啦我們不會跟政治人員玩啦好 沒關係我想說我想說給我們委員 給我們的指教我們都會深切檢討就像委員講這個我們回去有跟他交代說是不是可以更溫暖 更體貼的一個做法不是講政治人物玩我們沒有跟政治人物玩這件事情對於我們國家的警察官 法官"},{"start":448.03,"end":471.979,"text":"警察 調查官 廉政官其實我都非常的尊重因為這些人以前是陪著我從年輕到現在 一路大家都是一起作戰的戰友所以我也不能去苛責誰啦當然我要把一些有問題的制度拿出來更何況說我覺得今天的一些做法其實造成寒蟬效應你不要講別人 你早上六點半去被害人家送船票你會讓這些人真的會很害怕"},{"start":473.052,"end":488.844,"text":"然後你一個調查官跑來一定要帶我走然後他沒有他雖然有出示證件但他也沒有拿任何G票或什麼我也會害怕所以搞到最後為什麼很多人說現在變成寒蟬效應啊司法跟整個行政機關好像在對付民眾"},{"start":490.665,"end":513.974,"text":"這個我想說大家要釐清啦那當然有一些政客他們對於很多事情都在亂講亂帶風向譬如說我們都426我們一個集會然後就會有人說你違照文書沒有違法嗎其實我們一直在講的是執法的不公的問題我們一直聚焦在執法的不公就像剛剛講說翁曉琳委員自己也說違照文書違法那為什麼現在大家可以抗議這個"},{"start":515.871,"end":523.72,"text":"我覺得這是亂帶風向那這些人他也念過法律他不是不懂但他今天來這裡很多政客來這裡就是在騙人民嘛一直騙啊"},{"start":526.027,"end":541.038,"text":"從來沒有人說過偽造文書是合法我們都認為違法 該辦就辦但是我們認為執法要公平不要讓人民造成寒蟬效應這個執法公平 我已經一再強調檢察官絕對是勿枉勿重 不分黨派 沒有一時的立場這個是要精神檢驗的謝謝部長部長講這些話是我心裡的話 但是我希望"},{"start":551.192,"end":574.177,"text":"大家都能做到那另外其實剛剛吳孝遠也講錯一個東西他還沒講說韓國瑜罷免案然後什麼幾個死人連署其實我一直覺得奇怪偽造文書一個行為也是偽造文書啊這跟人數多少有什麼關係大家現在很喜歡比較啊罷蘭的死人連署比例多少罷綠的死人連署比例才多少所以你罷蘭的該死罷綠的好棒棒"},{"start":575.609,"end":598.27,"text":"我覺得這莫名其妙嘛 犯罪行為 犯罪就犯罪啊 還要來比人數的高低更何況 甘吾士要來講錯啊韓國瑜案子 高雄地檢署的不起訴處分書他是認為罷免的那個收件的團體 他沒有這個辨識是否是違簽的這個能力嘛這跟數量比例這有什麼關聯性"},{"start":600.117,"end":623.988,"text":"所以我覺得這些政客們最糟糕的就是他一直在誤導人民一直在帶風向亂扯一通他自己不是不懂但是就要讓自己假裝不懂然後來到處騙人民所以我現在看到的狀況然後我剛剛提到的就是說司法執行為什麼我們有很多意見因為司法的執行它有一個比例原則嘛手段目的的比例原則問題那我們現在認為說你今天你辦詐騙集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛啦"},{"start":629.978,"end":654.859,"text":"對不對然後你辦犯罪集團就沒有這麼用力這麼猛你辦那些財產犯罪的那些洗錢掏空的你就沒有從來沒有這麼猛這麼用力過但是你今天配合的政治人物在玩這些人的時候你忘了手段跟目的在法律上面有個最基本的東西叫做比例原則然後你就說這東西構成犯罪啊我可以不抓嗎但是你不是啊你今天"},{"start":655.882,"end":669.787,"text":"大搜索然後大羈押然後我真的不知道在做什麼然後我覺得最離譜的是北檢北檢你搜索完國民黨的台北市黨部就算了你申請羈押黨部主委的理由竟然是因為他是那兩個黨工的"},{"start":672.25,"end":691.104,"text":"的老闆所以他一定知情所以推定他知情所以被北院打臉嘛我現在講的是北院的裁定理由因為我沒有看卷但是我講的是北院的裁定理由我再補充一次我講的是北院的裁定理由不是我個人的臆測所以被打臉也是難怪啦"},{"start":694.754,"end":717.775,"text":"不好意思我可能耽誤時間會比較多我們再提一下就是我想請問施部長 施部長不好意思我請教一個問題雖然我也是都蠻尊敬您的那您上次有提到就是我們在談那個行政中立的時候您有提到說就法律的精神政務官不可以動用公家資源去從事政黨活動跟政治活動我想這個沒有錯吧"},{"start":718.556,"end":733.602,"text":"那我在這邊也再跟各位報告一件事我們的行政中立法他雖然沒有包含到政務官但是他的立法理由寫得很清楚政務官不是沒有行政中立的義務而是要另立專法部長我有沒有講錯"},{"start":735.523,"end":752.378,"text":"沒有錯 我想委員上次有指教過立法說明所以我們這些政務官千萬不能說我沒有行政總理的義務而是今天 我不懂為什麼這麼多年下來 我們這個專法到現在還沒有立出來"},{"start":756.78,"end":769.467,"text":"我們這次有做一個解凍的儀表板也就是說從3月21號政府公布的國家總預算到今天其實還沒有任何一個人送解凍的案子過來這個都有別於過往"},{"start":771.008,"end":786.681,"text":"那以前喔 大家都是趕快來請立法院排解凍就到今天 大家都不送拖了一個多月 其實這個還蠻離譜但是我要跟各位報告一件事就像我們念法律 我們非常多的同學都現在在中央機關或是各地方的縣市機關他們會跟我們講實際情況是什麼啊"},{"start":790.1,"end":805.021,"text":"那我們有認識一些比較熟的國會人士私下也會跟我們講就上面要求不可以送解凍案我自己的同學三四十年的好朋友同學在中央機關也是跟我們說上面交代不可以送解凍案這當然我不是說那個部長您那邊"},{"start":805.982,"end":822.595,"text":"那就讓我一個心裡有個感覺是什麼時候開始政治人物政務官竟然可以拿公務員以及國人當肉票來為了他搞一個政治上面的攻擊一個大罷免什麼時候今天我們台灣走到這個地步了"},{"start":823.834,"end":846.663,"text":"因為今天這些我的同學跟國會聯絡人不同的同學他們之間沒有在勾串啦他們跟我講的都是同一個答案上面交代不可以送解凍案什麼時候國家走到今天這樣把人民的權益把公務員的權益來當作是一個政治攻擊就是要讓大家不懂的人能夠痛恨"},{"start":847.663,"end":875.937,"text":"非執政黨的立委我覺得國家怎麼會走到今天這個地步好 那今天執政院長出來叫大家趕快送 大家就狂送當時我同學跟我講說 我還笑我同學說哇 那你們下半年喔預算執行率很低 大家要狂花錢欸因為上半年一直跟公務員跟國人講說我們的預算都被刪了 都沒錢 什麼都不能做然後下半年不知道狂用預算嗎 我還在那邊笑他們但是我心裡是難過的 為什麼國家可以"},{"start":876.744,"end":897.952,"text":"完全罔顧人民的權益及公務員的權利只為了政治鬥爭你也不用跟我說沒有這件事情這個事情也有公務員出來爆料我想說最近你們也都有看到很多公務員也都出來爆料說他們的單位叫他們不可以送那還有"},{"start":900.217,"end":917.927,"text":"教育部的人跟我說 教育部的好朋友跟我說教育部不開冷氣告訴他們 因為被藍白三光預算 不能開冷氣我的問題是 你公務員幹了三十年欸我想請問你一個問題啊就算預算不夠用 也是年底的事啊為什麼年初就不夠用我都已經在騙人嘛"},{"start":919.605,"end":937.192,"text":"我說從來沒有這樣子啊然後他們有的三業務費是30%或多少%結果我們希望你不要把業務費拿去養網軍養特定媒體結果你告訴你的公務員說人家不給你開冷氣不給你馬桶沖水變成這樣所以我跟他們講一個我自己"},{"start":938.573,"end":952.4,"text":"跟他們講 用一個簡單的例子來比喻小孩子學壞 媽媽刪了他抽菸喝酒吃檳榔的零用錢就小孩子跑去跟爸爸說媽媽把我吃飯錢刪光了我快餓死了 我血糖低了結果呢"},{"start":953.516,"end":969.923,"text":"即使媽媽把她的零用錢刪掉一部分她的零用錢還是全班最有錢這就是現在的民進黨政府她拿到史上最高的預算還是最有錢然後告訴你什麼基礎的事都不能做這是我自己看到還有就是"},{"start":971.293,"end":985.885,"text":"我認為啦 如果藍白真的如同民進黨所說的爛三預算那你拿到應該是史上最低的總預算啊怎麼會是拿到史上最高的總預算呢這是一個人類最基本的邏輯啊我今天要亂砍你的錢 你拿到應該是史上最低啊"},{"start":986.625,"end":1002.801,"text":"我爸媽懲罰我小時候就是給我最少的零用錢讓我氣得要死啊怎麼會是我拿到史上最高的零用錢這都藍白亂算預算然後後來被人家掀出來說數字都沒有少還變多結果就說 欸怎麼不能留用開始這些鬼話全部都出來我現在看到的狀況都是這樣齁"},{"start":1005.759,"end":1016.223,"text":"那最近發生很多事情就是你說沒衛生紙沒冷氣護照要用完一個一個被踢爆其實這都是讓我們人民對於政府的信任度真的越來越低啦更何況你辦護照還要繳費"},{"start":1023.117,"end":1037.965,"text":"這兩天 今天有一個出來好像是哪一個部的他出來叫大家趕快補送預算結果他的通知是什麼請指示 以可將解凍報告發文自立法院什麼叫以可將"},{"start":1039.178,"end":1052.271,"text":"那就是大家都準備好啦上面交代不可以送出來啊所以現在請大家宜可將這個可以開始送了那為什麼政府要這樣綁架全國的公務員跟罔顧全民的利益呢這樣這樣對嗎"},{"start":1056.169,"end":1083.647,"text":"我覺得我自己很難過啦行政中立的部分我真的覺得還是希望不管政務官或一般的公務員真的要維持行政中立不是說不聽民進黨的新潮流人的話就是中共同步人所以最近呢陳水扁也變中共同步人啦林卓水也變中共同步人啦台大清大早就是中共同步人啦那我們只要不是投民進不支持民進黨的我們早就被貼什麼舔共什麼這國家已經走到今天這樣了耶"},{"start":1084.648,"end":1101.008,"text":"然後本來行政中立是國家民主國家最根本一個骨幹的精神所以你看美國總統換成川普他國務院還是堅持他的做法就川普的政府那些人跟馬斯克說要刪美國政府30%的國家總預算怎麼沒有人說"},{"start":1102.835,"end":1120.061,"text":"人民反而支持 結果沒有人民跳出來說你是不是中共同路人所以我覺得我們國家已經走到執政黨已經走到一個瘋狂的程度了甚至教育部長還出來說這罷免進入校園是言論自由什麼時候教育基本法已經被人這麼的不當一回事"},{"start":1121.421,"end":1147.166,"text":"不好意思 最後給我兩分鐘司法院跟法務部司法院 我想請教一下你們去年去年政府公告總預算案是113年1月8號你記不記得司法院什麼時候送解凍案沒關係 時間關係我直接講司法院是113年1月19號"},{"start":1149.483,"end":1170.208,"text":"1月8號公告市長院1月19號就開始送解凍案過來了那我想法務部長你可能也不知道法務部是1月30號就送來了而且一送來之後就解凍非常多解凍案只要一份報告來就解凍就今天我們政府是叫大家全部不要送解凍案因為讓大家痛恨覺得立法院就是爛三逸帥所以"},{"start":1171.092,"end":1191.46,"text":"整整1381億卡了一個月真正讓行政自愛難行的是行政院院長自己所以我還是在這邊敬告政府啦就是很多事情只包不住火尤其是我們有很多同學都在各個中央機關他們都會跟我們講實話那也有很多人出來爆料所以"},{"start":1193.385,"end":1214.69,"text":"我知道司法院跟你無關因為是行政院院長在幹這件事情但我覺得這蠻丟臉行政院院長為了要讓罷免能夠有效然後就開始搞這些東西我是覺得整兩個字叫丟臉行政院院長丟臉自己卡自己的預算然後要裝窮讓全國人來可憐他這個預算的問題我們再找時間跟委員做一個"},{"start":1219.031,"end":1247.581,"text":"像那個檢察機關的那個那個做事統三的那個國內女會那部分已經發生了我跟你講部長你回去問你國兩司司長當時他想要出國立牌綜藝我跟你講我立牌綜藝就是要他們留下那些錢你不要搞錯你去問你的國兩司司長對然後你今天解凍案一個月都不送然後你是為了你的法務部好所以你一個月都不要送解凍案了解"},{"start":1248.083,"end":1248.747,"text":"兩位我們先時間關係謝謝五位"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":879,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（11時31分），好，謝謝。我們麻煩銓敘部長、法務部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：兩位好。先跟部長請教一下，調查站早上六點多去拜訪民眾，部長說這個是基隆人的習慣，部長可能沒有注意，我後來發現新聞已經開始在報導這件事情，那我想請教一下，部長，你認為基隆人的習慣是什麼意思？為什麼要調查站早上六點多去？"],["鄭部長銘謙：其實這個是執行面的一個問題，當然我們那時候考慮到因為基隆人在外地工作、上班的很多，有很多在臺北市或新北市工作，路途遙遠，起床比較早，所以我們提前送達傳票，讓被傳喚的對象可以斟酌那時候是不是要請假，來接受訊問。我們其實有考量到工作的情況，是一種比較體貼的做法。如果影響到這個，當然我們可以……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，你的意思是說，六點半就要把他帶走？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有帶走，是傳喚。"],["吳委員宗憲：正常的通知是檢察官傳票的送達。"],["鄭部長銘謙：他是送達，是送達。"],["吳委員宗憲：那為什麼不能用一般的郵務送達，要六點半去把人帶走？"],["鄭部長銘謙：不是帶走，這部分執行面，我們是不是可以請調查局局長來……"],["吳委員宗憲：我想請教一下局長，我們先釐清這件事情。當天六點半帶檢察官的傳票去，是要馬上把他帶走，還是只是告訴他何時要到庭應訊？"],["陳局長白立：當然就是通知他，就通知他而已。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，通知他什麼時候到庭應訊？"],["陳局長白立：具體的內容我就不曉得。"],["吳委員宗憲：我的疑問就在這裡啊，第一個，如果檢察官是請調查官拿傳票去找當事人，請當事人跟著走，我沒有說拘提喔，我說的是請當事人跟著走，如果是六點半到我家帶我走，全家都嚇死了，這是第一個。第二個，如果檢察官只是通知特定的時間到庭應訊，這個用一般郵務送達就可以了，為什麼一定要調查官去送呢？"],["陳局長白立：我想送達個案的執行方式跟執行的內容，我們都依照檢察官的指揮，他們在……"],["吳委員宗憲：跟部長和局長報告一下，我自己當檢察官也幹了那麼多年，我怎麼沒有聽說過有人幹這種事情？我跟兩位報告，到場搜索有可能六點半，到場拘提有可能六點半，但是因為這兩個是必須施以強制力的，可是如果今天只是通知或傳喚民眾的話，為什麼你要早上六點半送去呢？就像那一天在高雄，調查官到現場一定要把某一個人帶走一樣，那當然現場的民眾會開始鬧哄哄嘛。我們臺灣什麼時候走向這種讓人民恐懼，好像是半極權國家的感覺了？調查官可以突然跑到我家來就把我帶走，或是調查官六點半來我家按門鈴。我們也不認為基隆人跟我們有什麼不一樣，他們沒有必要因為是基隆人，所以必須起得比雞還要早，沒有這種事情嘛。"],["陳局長白立：我想這個是委員誤解啦。"],["吳委員宗憲：剛剛部長說這個是基隆人的習性啊。"],["鄭部長銘謙：不是這個意思。這不是說生活習慣，我是說，這是因為考量到當地工作的特性，所以我們就在六點多，這個是他們傳喚的一個考量，這個不是我……"],["吳委員宗憲：不是，部長，我剛剛講的，這些人是被害人喔，這些人不是被告喔，我再跟兩位補充一下，這些人是被害人。我請教一下，當天調查官送過去的檢察官傳票是立刻要帶走開庭還是改天開庭？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個有記載他到的時間，這個不是說來的話我就帶你去。"],["吳委員宗憲：對，就是我剛剛講的，如果你今天去是要把……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們界定這是一個傳票送達的時間嘛，又不是什麼六點開庭、六點半開庭，沒有這件事嘛。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，我沒有說過這句話，部長，你不要誤解我的話，你不要亂講。"],["鄭部長銘謙：你誤導說我們就是帶走，不是通知……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，送達有送達的做法，送達有送達的慣例，今天對於被害人，你早上六點半去送達，然後你說這是基隆人的習慣，這我不認同啦。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我不會說是基隆人的習慣，是考慮到基隆地區工作的特性，因為他在外地工作，他可能會比較早一點出門，是這樣。"],["吳委員宗憲：臺北人也可能在外地工作，新北人也可能在外地工作，是不是以後對全國的被害人，我們就要六點半送達呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：當然，如果這樣考量的話，我們考量這跟我們的事情……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，我不是外行人。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們可以檢討，我們可以更體貼……"],["吳委員宗憲：報告部長，我不是外行人，我們來這裡就講真話，好不好？沒有人在早上六點半去被害人家中送檢察官的傳票啦。部長，有的話，麻煩部長跟我說過往有哪些例子。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個個案我也尊重檢察官，但是如果這樣的話引起大家的……"],["吳委員宗憲：如果你說這是個案，我接受啊。"],["鄭部長銘謙：那這樣的話，我們可以檢討。"],["吳委員宗憲：全國的特例啊。就像北檢的林俊言檢察官，20年沒有檢察官去視察過醫院，然後林俊言檢察官敢大言不慚地說他去醫院視察，一樣啊，你今天就是在幹過往都沒有幹過的事情嘛。報告部長，如果你認為這是個案，我可以接受啦，那我們是不是就告訴以後所有的人：你不能這樣做，你這是擾民，你在恐嚇基隆人嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：針對這一部分，我們已經請這個檢察官就這部分再斟酌，符合我們更溫暖的做法。"],["吳委員宗憲：臺灣什麼時候變成今天這樣？我一直以來認為司法是來對付壞人的，什麼時候變成政治工具了？我一直以來認為國安法是對付那些境外勢力的，什麼時候對付的都是善良百姓？這些年怎麼會變成這樣子啊？我當年從司法官訓練所結訓的時候，我對司法的夢想不是今天這樣耶！這會讓很多司法人員難過啦！其實我現在也知道，北檢裡面對於承辦沈慶京和柯文哲的案子，有兩派不同的、很極端的想法，更何況北檢以外的。部長，我們都希望留下好的名聲給大家探聽，如果跟著政治人物這樣玩，不是司法人員該有的樣子。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，我們不是跟政治人物玩，我們不會跟政治人物玩。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒關係。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想說，委員給我們指教，我們都會深切檢討，就像委員講的這個，我們回去有跟人家交代，是不是可以用更溫暖、更體貼的做法？而不是跟政治人物玩，我們沒有跟政治人物玩這件事。"],["吳委員宗憲：對於我們國家的檢察官、法官、警察、調查官、廉政官，其實我都非常尊重，因為這些人以前陪著我，從年輕到現在，一路走來，大家都是一起作戰的戰友，所以我也不能去苛責誰，但是我要把一些有問題的制度拿出來，更何況我覺得今天的一些做法其實造成寒蟬效應。不要講別人，你早上六點半去被害人家送傳票，你會讓這些人真的很害怕，一個調查官跑來，一定要帶人走，然後調查官有出示證件，但他也沒有拿任何拘票或是什麼，換作是我，我也會害怕，所以搞到最後為什麼很多人說現在變成寒蟬效應？司法跟整個行政機關好像在對付民眾，對於這一點，我想說大家要釐清。當然有一些政客對於很多事情都在亂講，亂帶風向，譬如說我們在426有一個集會，然後就會有人說：「你偽造文書沒有違法嗎？」其實我們一直在講的是執法不公的問題，我們一直聚焦在執法不公，就像剛剛翁曉玲委員自己也說偽造文書違法，為什麼現在大家可以抗議這個？我覺得這就是亂帶風向，這些人也唸過法律，他不是不懂，但他今天來這裡，很多政客來這裡就是在騙人民啊，一直騙啊！從來沒有人說過偽造文書合法，我們都認為違法，該辦就辦，但是我們認為執法要公平，不要造成人民的寒蟬效應。"],["鄭部長銘謙：執法公平，我已經一再強調，檢察官絕對是毋枉毋縱，不分黨派，沒有預設立場。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這要經過檢驗的，委員，我們也是有發……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝部長。部長講這些話，是我心裡的話，我希望大家都能做到。","另外，剛剛吳思瑤委員也講錯一個東西，她講韓國瑜罷免案，然後什麼幾個死人連署。我一直覺得奇怪，偽造文書，一個行為也是偽造文書啊，這跟人數多少有什麼關係？大家現在很喜歡比較，罷藍的死人連署比例多少，罷綠的死人連署比例「才」多少，所以你罷藍的該死，罷綠的好棒棒！我覺得這莫名其妙嘛！犯罪行為，犯罪就犯罪，還來比人數的高低？更何況剛剛吳思瑤也講錯，韓國瑜的案子，高雄地檢署的不起訴處分書認為，罷免的收件團體沒有辨識是否為偽簽的能力嘛，這跟數量、比例有什麼關聯性？所以我覺得這些政客們最糟糕的就是他一直在誤導人民，一直在帶風向，亂扯一通！他自己不是不懂，但是就是要讓自己假裝不懂，然後來到處騙人民，這是我現在看到的狀況。","我剛剛提到，司法執行為什麼有很多意見，因為司法的執行有一個比例原則嘛，手段、目的的比例原則問題。我們現在認為你今天辦詐騙集團就沒有這麼用力、這麼猛啦，對不對？你辦犯罪集團就沒有這麼用力、這麼猛，你辦那些財產犯罪的、洗錢掏空的，從來沒有這麼猛、這麼用力過！但是你今天配合政治人物在玩這些人的時候，你忘了手段跟目的在法律上面有一個最基本的叫做比例原則！然後你就說這個構成犯罪啊，我可以不抓嗎？但是你不是啊，你今天大搜索、大羈押，我真的不知道在做什麼。我覺得最離譜的是北檢，北檢搜索完國民黨臺北市黨部就算了，你聲請羈押黨部主委的理由，竟然是因為他是那兩個黨工的老闆，所以他一定知情，推定他知情，被北院打臉嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員，我們現在不要去講個案嘛……"],["吳委員宗憲：我現在講的是北院的裁定理由。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們今天都不談個案嘛。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為我沒有看卷，但是我講的是北院的裁定理由，我再補充一次，我講的是北院的裁定理由，不是我個人的臆測，所以被打臉也是難怪啦。","不好意思，我可能耽誤的時間會比較多。我想請教施部長一個問題。施部長，我也是都蠻尊敬您的。"],["施部長能傑：謝謝委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：您上次有提到，我們在談行政中立的時候，你有提到，就法律的精神，政務官不可以動用公家資源去從事政黨活動跟政治性的活動，我想這個沒有錯吧？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["吳委員宗憲：那我在這邊也再跟各位報告一件事，我們的行政中立法雖然沒有包含到政務官，但是它的立法理由寫得很清楚，政務官不是沒有行政中立的義務，而是要另立專法。部長，我有沒有講錯？"],["施部長能傑：沒有錯，我想委員上次有指教過，在立法說明的部分有提過這個事情。"],["吳委員宗憲：是，所以我們這些政務官千萬不能說我沒有行政中立的義務。但是今天我不懂，為什麼這麼多年下來，這個專法到現在還沒有立出來？","我們這次有做一個解凍的儀表板，從3月21日政府公布國家總預算到今天，其實還沒有任何一個人送解凍的案子過來，這個都有別於過往。以前大家都是趕快來請立法院排解凍，結果到今天，大家都不送，拖了一個多月，其實這還蠻離譜的。","我要跟各位報告一件事，我們唸法律的，有非常多同學現在在中央機關或是各地方縣市機關，他們會跟我們講實際情況是什麼。我們有認識一些比較熟的國會聯絡人，私下也會跟我們講，上面要求不可以送解凍案。我自己的同學，三、四十年的好朋友、同學在中央機關，也是跟我們說上面交代不可以送解凍案。當然我不是說部長那邊。這就讓我心裡有個感覺，是什麼時候開始政治人物、政務官竟然可以拿公務員以及國人當肉票，為了他搞政治上面的攻擊，大罷免？什麼時候我們臺灣走到今天這個地步了？今天這些我的同學跟國會聯絡人，不同的同學他們之間沒有勾串，他們跟我講的都是同一個答案：上面交代不可以送解凍案！什麼時候國家走到今天這樣？把人民的權益、公務員的權益當作政治攻擊，就是要讓不懂的人痛恨非執政黨的立委。國家怎麼會走到今天這個地步？","好，今天行政院長出來叫大家趕快送，大家就狂送。當時我同學跟我講的時候，我還笑我同學，說你們下半年預算執行率很低，大家要狂花錢。因為上半年一直跟公務員、跟國人講預算都被刪了，都沒錢，什麼都不能做，下半年不就要狂用預算嗎？我還在那邊笑他們，但是我心裡是難過的，為什麼國家可以完全罔顧人民的權益以及公務員的權益，只為了政治鬥爭？","你也不用跟我說沒有這件事情，也有公務員出來爆料，我想最近你們也都有看到，很多公務員也都出來爆料，說他們的單位叫他們不可以送。還有教育部的人跟我說，教育部不開冷氣，部裡告訴他們因為被藍白刪光預算，不能開冷氣！我的問題是，你公務員幹了30年，我想請問你一個問題，就算預算不夠用，也是年底的事啊，為什麼年初就不夠用？我就覺得你在騙人嘛！我說從來沒有這樣子啊。他們有的刪業務費，也是刪30%或多少%，我們是希望你不要把業務費拿去養網軍、去養特定媒體，結果你告訴你的公務員，人家不給你開冷氣、不給你馬桶沖水，變成這樣？","我自己跟他們講一個簡單的例子比喻，小孩子學壞，媽媽刪了他抽菸、喝酒、吃檳榔的零用錢，結果小孩子跑去跟爸爸說，媽媽把我吃飯錢刪光了，我快餓死了，我血糖低。結果呢？即使媽媽把他零用錢刪掉一部分，他還是全班最有錢，這就是現在的民進黨政府！他拿到史上最高的預算，還是最有錢，然後他告訴基層，你什麼基礎的事都不能做！這是我自己看到的。","還有我認為如果藍白真的如同民進黨所說的濫刪預算，那你拿到的應該是史上最低的總預算啊，怎麼會是拿到史上最高的總預算呢？這是一個人類最基本的邏輯啊，我今天亂砍你的錢，你拿到的應該是史上最低啊！我爸媽懲罰我，小時候就是給我最少的零用錢，讓我氣得要死。怎麼會是拿到史上最高的零用錢，這時候藍白濫刪預算，後來被人家掀出來說數字都沒有少，還變多，結果又說什麼不能流用，鬼話就開始全部都出來了。我現在看到的狀況都是這樣。最近發生很多事情，就是你說沒衛生紙、沒冷氣、護照要用完了，一個一個被踢爆，其實這都是讓人民對政府的信任度真的越來越低。更何況辦護照還要繳費。","這兩天，好像是哪一個部的出來叫大家趕快補送預算，結果他的通知是什麼？經請示「已可將」解凍報告發文至立法院，什麼叫「已可將」？就是大家都準備好了，上面交代不可以送出來，所以現在請大家「已可將」，可以開始送了。為什麼政府要這樣綁架全國的公務員跟罔顧全民的利益呢？這樣對嗎？我覺得我自己很難過啦。","行政中立的部分，我還是希望不管政務官或一般的公務員，真的要維持行政中立。不是說不聽民進黨新潮流人的話，就是中共同路人。最近陳水扁也變成中共同路人了，林濁水也變成中共同路人，臺大、清大早就是中共同路人了。只要不是支持民進黨的，我們早就被貼什麼舔共的標籤，這個國家走到今天這樣了。","本來行政中立是民主國家最根本的一個骨幹精神，所以你看美國總統換成川普，國務院還是堅持他的作法，川普那些人跟馬斯克說刪美國政府30%的國家總預算，人民反而支持，怎麼沒有人民跳出來說你是不是中共同路人？所以我覺得執政黨已經走到一個瘋狂的程度，甚至教育部長還出來說罷免進入校園是言論自由，什麼時候教育基本法已經被人這麼的不當一回事了？","不好意思，最後給我2分鐘，不好意思。司法院和法務部，我想請教司法院，去年政府公告總預算案是在113年1月8日，你記不記得司法院什麼時候送解凍案？好，沒關係，因為時間關係，我直接講，司法院是113年1月19日，1月8日公告，司法院1月19日就開始送解凍案過來了。我想法務部長可能也不知道，法務部1月30日就送來了，而且一送來之後就解凍，非常多解凍案只要一份報告來就解凍。結果今天我們的政府叫大家全部不要送解凍案，因為要讓大家痛恨，覺得立法院就是濫刪預算，整整1,381億元卡了1個月，真正讓行政窒礙難行的是行政院院長自己。","所以我還是在這邊敬告政府，很多事情紙包不住火，尤其我們有很多同學都在各個中央機關，他們都會跟我們講實話，也會有很多人出來爆料。我知道跟司法院無關，因為是行政院院長在幹這件事情，但我覺得這蠻丟臉的，行政院長為了讓罷免能夠有效，就開始搞這些東西。我是覺得只能用兩個字，丟臉！行政院長丟臉，自己卡自己的預算，然後要裝窮，讓全國人民來可憐他。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個預算的問題，我們再找時間跟委員說明。像檢察機關統刪的是國內旅費，已經發生很大的問題，刪了國內旅費，你知道嗎？……"],["吳委員宗憲：我跟你講，部長，你回去問國兩司長，當時他想要出國，我力排眾議……"],["鄭部長銘謙：國內旅費，現在檢察機關都因為那筆……"],["主席：因為時間關係，請注意一下時間好嗎？"],["吳委員宗憲：我跟你說，我力排眾議，就是要他們留下那些錢。你不要搞錯，你去問你國兩司長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這不是什麼出國，包含證人還有車馬費，都是國內旅費喔。"],["主席：時間終止！時間終止！"],["吳委員宗憲：對！然後你解凍案一個月都不動！你是為了法務部好，所以你一個月都不要送解凍案！了解。"],["主席：好，兩位，現在因為時間關係，謝謝吳委員。","現在先處理會議時間，上午會議繼續進行到所有登記的委員發言結束、詢答結束為止。由於上午到現在都沒有休息，所以我們稍後在洪孟楷委員詢答完畢之後，休息5分鐘。","接著請王鴻薇委員進行詢答。謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":80,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-10","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","王義川","林倩綺","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","麥玉珍","羅智強","蔡易餘","傅崐萁"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、銓敘部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、行政\n院人事行政總處、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、內政部、中央選舉委員會、內政部警政署率所屬\n相關單位列席就「選舉罷免程序中，如何落實公務人員含政務官（人員）、司法人員、選務人員\n恪守行政中立，且秉持公正執法勿偏頗」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00001"}}}