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\"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 524.753, \"end\": 524.873, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 524.873, \"end\": 524.893, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,819 --> 00:00:12,469\n謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝個茶部長可以嗎好那我們請國防部顧部長還有我們這個國安局我們黃副局長是李委員部長看一下這個照片\n\n2\n00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:45,877\n那這個是最近在網路上有流傳就是做我們政府元首的一個親密接觸的影像當然這個是身為的一個影片跟影像那現在這一個刑事警察局已經介入調查了那我想請問一下兩位有沒有看過這個影片或是照片我本身沒有看過黃副局長沒有看過\n\n3\n00:00:47,621 --> 00:01:13,488\n那這個利用這個深圍的技術然後做這個不管是正副元首或是說傷害到台灣的影片應該會越來越多那我想請問一下部長你看到這個用這個深圍的影片故意來破壞正副總統的形象你的看法怎麼樣\n\n4\n00:01:15,066 --> 00:01:32,417\n我想深緯的影像是我們現在應該要重要的一個要能夠讓國人能夠變就是說深緯的這個影像現在網路的傳播的速度非常的快\n\n5\n00:01:33,237 --> 00:01:48,134\n所以對這個深圍影像發生之後我們要立即加以讓公眾知悉這是屬於深圍的這個部分那後來讓也提升這個國人對這方面的識讀我想這個是很重要的\n\n6\n00:01:49,015 --> 00:02:08,150\n你們在這個2024年有公布四種在國防上可能會遇到身為挑戰風險的樣態那有四種那一種是這個網路釣魚攻擊它涉及到竊取個資或機密或是偽造影片擾亂軍心就像我剛剛放的這個照片一樣還有偽造衛星圖片混淆偵查導致錯判還有製作爭議的訊息加劇對立與仇恨\n\n7\n00:02:16,576 --> 00:02:33,904\n那這四個是在去年國防部有提出來那這一個四種樣態那我請教一下部長那有關於說這個深圍對於這一個國軍的這一個影響那你們最近這一年還有做哪方面的這個措施呢\n\n8\n00:02:35,842 --> 00:02:54,991\n我想身為的這個部分如果對於我想這是屬於一種認知戰認知戰的一個作為我們不是只有我們這個國軍或者國防部會發生事實上是在所有的各領域會發生就我的理解\n\n9\n00:02:56,572 --> 00:03:11,864\n這個是一個跨部會要來進行協作整個國安的體制還有整個全政府都要來做那國安會來講他作為一個統籌跟國安局來進行這樣子的一個協助\n\n10\n00:03:12,965 --> 00:03:35,783\n是相當重要的那我們的話本身就會製作相關的這些在舉光炎帝也好在其他也好我們會強化我們官兵在這方面的一個嗜毒的能力還有利用不斷的一些一個文宣作為來強化民眾嗜毒的能力這樣子\n\n11\n00:03:36,363 --> 00:03:54,102\n那那個國安局的部分呢副局長我想很重要在這個身為的一個技術可以做某些特點的一個分析然後告知國人稍微辨識一下可以知道說這個是一個身為的一個偽造的一個影片那第二\n\n12\n00:03:55,243 --> 00:04:17,695\n警政署跟調查局都有這個辨識的這個設備啦那就可以透過他們做一個更精準的一個這個辨識的一個這個鑑識啦那第三個部分就是如果是確實身為馬上請相關單位做一個審查下架的一個動作讓這個影片不要繼續流傳產生這個認知的問題因為這個影片你說像這一個\n\n13\n00:04:22,597 --> 00:04:45,622\n澤倫斯基他們俄羅斯方面有假冒是澤倫斯基投降的影片等等都有所以在現在當然我們有這個時間去做處理但是有可能在我們做演習的時候類似這種假訊息身為的影片就很容易出來打擊國軍的士氣甚至對於我們的演習\n\n14\n00:04:47,623 --> 00:05:11,205\n給予錯誤的一個印象然後就是說我們的演習其實是怎麼樣不是我們所宣傳的那樣子我想說國防部這方面要怎麼去做因應委員這個指教是非常對所以快速的反應是很重要的然後另外要做反制也就是說它是錯誤的我們馬上不但舉出它的錯誤我們還提出反制的一些作為這個部分是相當重要的\n\n15\n00:05:13,786 --> 00:05:38,521\n那這個整個我個人之前在國安會服務那麼我想這個整個會有一個統籌的一個反制的一個相關的一個作為我是希望說包含這個國安會國安局國防部特別這方面尤其他這個已經針對到國家的元首副元首來做這個身為影片的攻擊我覺得這部分真的要加強注意因為類似的影片我認為會越來越多\n\n16\n00:05:40,242 --> 00:06:00,149\n那我再問最後一個問題就是說那個前國防部的這個軍情局的局長中將劉德良他有在這個政治大學國防大學國安局的這個在授課的時候提到說潛伏在台灣的共諜已經超過五千人了請問有這個數字嗎\n\n17\n00:06:02,370 --> 00:06:18,737\n他這個數字把在台失聯的入境人士都把他算在裡面達到一千三百多位所以這個數據我覺得我們是沒有掌握到那麼多可是他是在國安局的安研班上課都有提到類似的數據\n\n18\n00:06:20,584 --> 00:06:33,073\n所以副局長你就提到說在台灣失聯的大陸籍的人士現在有多少人現在有1330人那也沒有到5000多個那所以這5000多個數字是怎麼來的他還說這個是過去的數字現在的數字可能會更多\n\n19\n00:06:39,808 --> 00:07:07,528\n這個是他的推論啦依照我們的所掌握的那個情收進來的一個資訊來講沒有這麼多人啦因為他是以前是擔任過這一個軍情局的局長這是在國防部嘛對不對那我說他又在這個國防部的相關的你說國防大學有授課那我想說這個訊息國防部國安局這邊是不是要統合一下因為這個數字傳出去很驚人耶五千多個\n\n20\n00:07:08,829 --> 00:07:29,702\n我也不知道真假,所以利用這個機會就教兩位我想這個資訊他怎麼來的,我們可能要再就教他不過我剛剛也講過了,我們手頭上所掌握的人數是沒有那麼多所以那也不是共點,你掌握的是說這一個是\n\n21\n00:07:30,991 --> 00:07:56,918\n這個中國籍人是在台灣失聯的?對,應該是他把他批錯進來啦那這些失聯的人現在咧?這個是我們各國安情報單位還有甘斯瓦吉拿單位就積極在查找,在查緝的那有什麼具體的成果?因為一千多位是哪時候的數字?這個是近年來,大概近六年來的一個數據啦\n\n22\n00:07:59,124 --> 00:08:12,237\n那現在有查出來說這些失聯人到底在哪裡也不知道了嗎?還有繼續再查嗎?有繼續再查這個是專案再查的那有查出有什麼成果出來嗎?有查到什麼嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:32,082\n如果是查到了這個失聯的這個入境人士的話我們跟捷爾其他情報單位會做一個清詢到底他在台這一段時間失聯這一段時間他的一個行動動態都會做一個清查這個我覺得要查下去因為你也不曉得這1300多個到底現在是在哪裡\n\n24\n00:08:33,022 --> 00:08:44,893\n他是在台灣哪裡做什麼樣的事情到底是不是負有任務這其實是國安局都要去查清楚對這個是我們的任務謝謝部長謝謝副局長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1819\t12469\t謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝個茶 部長可以嗎好 那我們請國防部 顧部長還有我們這個國安局 我們黃副局長是 李委員部長 看一下這個照片\n23120\t45877\t那這個是最近在網路上有流傳就是做我們政府元首的一個親密接觸的影像當然這個是身為的一個影片跟影像那現在這一個刑事警察局已經介入調查了那我想請問一下兩位有沒有看過這個影片或是照片我本身沒有看過黃副局長沒有看過\n47621\t73488\t那這個利用這個深圍的技術然後做這個不管是正副元首或是說傷害到台灣的影片應該會越來越多那我想請問一下 部長你看到這個用這個深圍的影片故意來破壞正副總統的形象 你的看法怎麼樣\n75066\t92417\t我想深緯的影像是我們現在應該要重要的一個要能夠讓國人能夠變就是說深緯的這個影像現在網路的傳播的速度非常的快\n93237\t108134\t所以對這個深圍影像發生之後我們要立即加以讓公眾知悉這是屬於深圍的這個部分那後來讓也提升這個國人對這方面的識讀我想這個是很重要的\n109015\t128150\t你們在這個2024年有公布四種在國防上可能會遇到身為挑戰風險的樣態那有四種那一種是這個網路釣魚攻擊它涉及到竊取個資或機密或是偽造影片 擾亂軍心就像我剛剛放的這個照片一樣還有偽造衛星圖片混淆偵查導致錯判還有製作爭議的訊息加劇對立與仇恨\n136576\t153904\t那這四個是在去年國防部有提出來那這一個四種樣態那我請教一下部長那有關於說這個深圍對於這一個國軍的這一個影響那你們最近這一年還有做哪方面的這個措施呢\n155842\t174991\t我想身為的這個部分如果對於我想這是屬於一種認知戰認知戰的一個作為我們不是只有我們這個國軍或者國防部會發生事實上是在所有的各領域會發生就我的理解\n176572\t191864\t這個是一個跨部會要來進行協作整個國安的體制還有整個全政府都要來做那國安會來講他作為一個統籌跟國安局來進行這樣子的一個協助\n192965\t215783\t是相當重要的那我們的話本身就會製作相關的這些在舉光炎帝也好在其他也好我們會強化我們官兵在這方面的一個嗜毒的能力還有利用不斷的一些一個文宣作為來強化民眾嗜毒的能力這樣子\n216363\t234102\t那那個國安局的部分呢副局長我想很重要在這個身為的一個技術可以做某些特點的一個分析然後告知國人稍微辨識一下可以知道說這個是一個身為的一個偽造的一個影片那第二\n235243\t257695\t警政署跟調查局都有這個辨識的這個設備啦那就可以透過他們做一個更精準的一個這個辨識的一個這個鑑識啦那第三個部分就是如果是確實身為馬上請相關單位做一個審查下架的一個動作讓這個影片不要繼續流傳產生這個認知的問題因為這個影片你說像這一個\n262597\t285622\t澤倫斯基他們俄羅斯方面有假冒是澤倫斯基投降的影片等等都有所以在現在當然我們有這個時間去做處理但是有可能在我們做演習的時候類似這種假訊息身為的影片就很容易出來打擊國軍的士氣甚至對於我們的演習\n287623\t311205\t給予錯誤的一個印象然後就是說我們的演習其實是怎麼樣不是我們所宣傳的那樣子我想說國防部這方面要怎麼去做因應委員這個指教是非常對所以快速的反應是很重要的然後另外要做反制也就是說它是錯誤的我們馬上不但舉出它的錯誤我們還提出反制的一些作為這個部分是相當重要的\n313786\t338521\t那這個整個我個人之前在國安會服務那麼我想這個整個會有一個統籌的一個反制的一個相關的一個作為我是希望說包含這個國安會國安局國防部特別這方面尤其他這個已經針對到國家的元首副元首來做這個身為影片的攻擊我覺得這部分真的要加強注意因為類似的影片我認為會越來越多\n340242\t360149\t那我再問最後一個問題就是說那個前國防部的這個軍情局的局長中將劉德良他有在這個政治大學國防大學國安局的這個在授課的時候提到說潛伏在台灣的共諜已經超過五千人了請問有這個數字嗎\n362370\t378737\t他這個數字把在台失聯的入境人士都把他算在裡面達到一千三百多位所以這個數據我覺得我們是沒有掌握到那麼多可是他是在國安局的安研班上課都有提到類似的數據\n380584\t393073\t所以副局長你就提到說在台灣失聯的大陸籍的人士現在有多少人現在有1330人那也沒有到5000多個那所以這5000多個數字是怎麼來的他還說這個是過去的數字現在的數字可能會更多\n399808\t427528\t這個是他的推論啦依照我們的所掌握的那個情收進來的一個資訊來講沒有這麼多人啦因為他是以前是擔任過這一個軍情局的局長這是在國防部嘛對不對那我說他又在這個國防部的相關的你說國防大學有授課那我想說這個訊息國防部國安局這邊是不是要統合一下因為這個數字傳出去很驚人耶五千多個\n428829\t449702\t我也不知道真假,所以利用這個機會就教兩位我想這個資訊他怎麼來的,我們可能要再就教他不過我剛剛也講過了,我們手頭上所掌握的人數是沒有那麼多所以那也不是共點,你掌握的是說這一個是\n450991\t476918\t這個中國籍人是在台灣失聯的?對,應該是他把他批錯進來啦那這些失聯的人現在咧?這個是我們各國安情報單位還有甘斯瓦吉拿單位就積極在查找,在查緝的那有什麼具體的成果?因為一千多位是哪時候的數字?這個是近年來,大概近六年來的一個數據啦\n479124\t492237\t那現在有查出來說這些失聯人到底在哪裡也不知道了嗎?還有繼續再查嗎?有繼續再查 這個是專案再查的那有查出有什麼成果出來嗎?有查到什麼嗎?\n493650\t512082\t如果是查到了這個失聯的這個入境人士的話我們跟捷爾其他情報單位會做一個清詢到底他在台這一段時間失聯這一段時間他的一個行動動態都會做一個清查這個我覺得要查下去因為你也不曉得這1300多個到底現在是在哪裡\n513022\t524893\t他是在台灣哪裡 做什麼樣的事情到底是不是負有任務這其實是國安局都要去查清楚對 這個是我們的任務謝謝部長 謝謝副局長\n","txt":"謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝個茶 部長可以嗎好 那我們請國防部 顧部長還有我們這個國安局 我們黃副局長是 李委員部長 看一下這個照片\n那這個是最近在網路上有流傳就是做我們政府元首的一個親密接觸的影像當然這個是身為的一個影片跟影像那現在這一個刑事警察局已經介入調查了那我想請問一下兩位有沒有看過這個影片或是照片我本身沒有看過黃副局長沒有看過\n那這個利用這個深圍的技術然後做這個不管是正副元首或是說傷害到台灣的影片應該會越來越多那我想請問一下 部長你看到這個用這個深圍的影片故意來破壞正副總統的形象 你的看法怎麼樣\n我想深緯的影像是我們現在應該要重要的一個要能夠讓國人能夠變就是說深緯的這個影像現在網路的傳播的速度非常的快\n所以對這個深圍影像發生之後我們要立即加以讓公眾知悉這是屬於深圍的這個部分那後來讓也提升這個國人對這方面的識讀我想這個是很重要的\n你們在這個2024年有公布四種在國防上可能會遇到身為挑戰風險的樣態那有四種那一種是這個網路釣魚攻擊它涉及到竊取個資或機密或是偽造影片 擾亂軍心就像我剛剛放的這個照片一樣還有偽造衛星圖片混淆偵查導致錯判還有製作爭議的訊息加劇對立與仇恨\n那這四個是在去年國防部有提出來那這一個四種樣態那我請教一下部長那有關於說這個深圍對於這一個國軍的這一個影響那你們最近這一年還有做哪方面的這個措施呢\n我想身為的這個部分如果對於我想這是屬於一種認知戰認知戰的一個作為我們不是只有我們這個國軍或者國防部會發生事實上是在所有的各領域會發生就我的理解\n這個是一個跨部會要來進行協作整個國安的體制還有整個全政府都要來做那國安會來講他作為一個統籌跟國安局來進行這樣子的一個協助\n是相當重要的那我們的話本身就會製作相關的這些在舉光炎帝也好在其他也好我們會強化我們官兵在這方面的一個嗜毒的能力還有利用不斷的一些一個文宣作為來強化民眾嗜毒的能力這樣子\n那那個國安局的部分呢副局長我想很重要在這個身為的一個技術可以做某些特點的一個分析然後告知國人稍微辨識一下可以知道說這個是一個身為的一個偽造的一個影片那第二\n警政署跟調查局都有這個辨識的這個設備啦那就可以透過他們做一個更精準的一個這個辨識的一個這個鑑識啦那第三個部分就是如果是確實身為馬上請相關單位做一個審查下架的一個動作讓這個影片不要繼續流傳產生這個認知的問題因為這個影片你說像這一個\n澤倫斯基他們俄羅斯方面有假冒是澤倫斯基投降的影片等等都有所以在現在當然我們有這個時間去做處理但是有可能在我們做演習的時候類似這種假訊息身為的影片就很容易出來打擊國軍的士氣甚至對於我們的演習\n給予錯誤的一個印象然後就是說我們的演習其實是怎麼樣不是我們所宣傳的那樣子我想說國防部這方面要怎麼去做因應委員這個指教是非常對所以快速的反應是很重要的然後另外要做反制也就是說它是錯誤的我們馬上不但舉出它的錯誤我們還提出反制的一些作為這個部分是相當重要的\n那這個整個我個人之前在國安會服務那麼我想這個整個會有一個統籌的一個反制的一個相關的一個作為我是希望說包含這個國安會國安局國防部特別這方面尤其他這個已經針對到國家的元首副元首來做這個身為影片的攻擊我覺得這部分真的要加強注意因為類似的影片我認為會越來越多\n那我再問最後一個問題就是說那個前國防部的這個軍情局的局長中將劉德良他有在這個政治大學國防大學國安局的這個在授課的時候提到說潛伏在台灣的共諜已經超過五千人了請問有這個數字嗎\n他這個數字把在台失聯的入境人士都把他算在裡面達到一千三百多位所以這個數據我覺得我們是沒有掌握到那麼多可是他是在國安局的安研班上課都有提到類似的數據\n所以副局長你就提到說在台灣失聯的大陸籍的人士現在有多少人現在有1330人那也沒有到5000多個那所以這5000多個數字是怎麼來的他還說這個是過去的數字現在的數字可能會更多\n這個是他的推論啦依照我們的所掌握的那個情收進來的一個資訊來講沒有這麼多人啦因為他是以前是擔任過這一個軍情局的局長這是在國防部嘛對不對那我說他又在這個國防部的相關的你說國防大學有授課那我想說這個訊息國防部國安局這邊是不是要統合一下因為這個數字傳出去很驚人耶五千多個\n我也不知道真假,所以利用這個機會就教兩位我想這個資訊他怎麼來的,我們可能要再就教他不過我剛剛也講過了,我們手頭上所掌握的人數是沒有那麼多所以那也不是共點,你掌握的是說這一個是\n這個中國籍人是在台灣失聯的?對,應該是他把他批錯進來啦那這些失聯的人現在咧?這個是我們各國安情報單位還有甘斯瓦吉拿單位就積極在查找,在查緝的那有什麼具體的成果?因為一千多位是哪時候的數字?這個是近年來,大概近六年來的一個數據啦\n那現在有查出來說這些失聯人到底在哪裡也不知道了嗎?還有繼續再查嗎?有繼續再查 這個是專案再查的那有查出有什麼成果出來嗎?有查到什麼嗎?\n如果是查到了這個失聯的這個入境人士的話我們跟捷爾其他情報單位會做一個清詢到底他在台這一段時間失聯這一段時間他的一個行動動態都會做一個清查這個我覺得要查下去因為你也不曉得這1300多個到底現在是在哪裡\n他是在台灣哪裡 做什麼樣的事情到底是不是負有任務這其實是國安局都要去查清楚對 這個是我們的任務謝謝部長 謝謝副局長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.819 --> 00:12.469\n謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝個茶部長可以嗎好那我們請國防部顧部長還有我們這個國安局我們黃副局長是李委員部長看一下這個照片\n\n00:23.120 --> 00:45.877\n那這個是最近在網路上有流傳就是做我們政府元首的一個親密接觸的影像當然這個是身為的一個影片跟影像那現在這一個刑事警察局已經介入調查了那我想請問一下兩位有沒有看過這個影片或是照片我本身沒有看過黃副局長沒有看過\n\n00:47.621 --> 01:13.488\n那這個利用這個深圍的技術然後做這個不管是正副元首或是說傷害到台灣的影片應該會越來越多那我想請問一下部長你看到這個用這個深圍的影片故意來破壞正副總統的形象你的看法怎麼樣\n\n01:15.066 --> 01:32.417\n我想深緯的影像是我們現在應該要重要的一個要能夠讓國人能夠變就是說深緯的這個影像現在網路的傳播的速度非常的快\n\n01:33.237 --> 01:48.134\n所以對這個深圍影像發生之後我們要立即加以讓公眾知悉這是屬於深圍的這個部分那後來讓也提升這個國人對這方面的識讀我想這個是很重要的\n\n01:49.015 --> 02:08.150\n你們在這個2024年有公布四種在國防上可能會遇到身為挑戰風險的樣態那有四種那一種是這個網路釣魚攻擊它涉及到竊取個資或機密或是偽造影片擾亂軍心就像我剛剛放的這個照片一樣還有偽造衛星圖片混淆偵查導致錯判還有製作爭議的訊息加劇對立與仇恨\n\n02:16.576 --> 02:33.904\n那這四個是在去年國防部有提出來那這一個四種樣態那我請教一下部長那有關於說這個深圍對於這一個國軍的這一個影響那你們最近這一年還有做哪方面的這個措施呢\n\n02:35.842 --> 02:54.991\n我想身為的這個部分如果對於我想這是屬於一種認知戰認知戰的一個作為我們不是只有我們這個國軍或者國防部會發生事實上是在所有的各領域會發生就我的理解\n\n02:56.572 --> 03:11.864\n這個是一個跨部會要來進行協作整個國安的體制還有整個全政府都要來做那國安會來講他作為一個統籌跟國安局來進行這樣子的一個協助\n\n03:12.965 --> 03:35.783\n是相當重要的那我們的話本身就會製作相關的這些在舉光炎帝也好在其他也好我們會強化我們官兵在這方面的一個嗜毒的能力還有利用不斷的一些一個文宣作為來強化民眾嗜毒的能力這樣子\n\n03:36.363 --> 03:54.102\n那那個國安局的部分呢副局長我想很重要在這個身為的一個技術可以做某些特點的一個分析然後告知國人稍微辨識一下可以知道說這個是一個身為的一個偽造的一個影片那第二\n\n03:55.243 --> 04:17.695\n警政署跟調查局都有這個辨識的這個設備啦那就可以透過他們做一個更精準的一個這個辨識的一個這個鑑識啦那第三個部分就是如果是確實身為馬上請相關單位做一個審查下架的一個動作讓這個影片不要繼續流傳產生這個認知的問題因為這個影片你說像這一個\n\n04:22.597 --> 04:45.622\n澤倫斯基他們俄羅斯方面有假冒是澤倫斯基投降的影片等等都有所以在現在當然我們有這個時間去做處理但是有可能在我們做演習的時候類似這種假訊息身為的影片就很容易出來打擊國軍的士氣甚至對於我們的演習\n\n04:47.623 --> 05:11.205\n給予錯誤的一個印象然後就是說我們的演習其實是怎麼樣不是我們所宣傳的那樣子我想說國防部這方面要怎麼去做因應委員這個指教是非常對所以快速的反應是很重要的然後另外要做反制也就是說它是錯誤的我們馬上不但舉出它的錯誤我們還提出反制的一些作為這個部分是相當重要的\n\n05:13.786 --> 05:38.521\n那這個整個我個人之前在國安會服務那麼我想這個整個會有一個統籌的一個反制的一個相關的一個作為我是希望說包含這個國安會國安局國防部特別這方面尤其他這個已經針對到國家的元首副元首來做這個身為影片的攻擊我覺得這部分真的要加強注意因為類似的影片我認為會越來越多\n\n05:40.242 --> 06:00.149\n那我再問最後一個問題就是說那個前國防部的這個軍情局的局長中將劉德良他有在這個政治大學國防大學國安局的這個在授課的時候提到說潛伏在台灣的共諜已經超過五千人了請問有這個數字嗎\n\n06:02.370 --> 06:18.737\n他這個數字把在台失聯的入境人士都把他算在裡面達到一千三百多位所以這個數據我覺得我們是沒有掌握到那麼多可是他是在國安局的安研班上課都有提到類似的數據\n\n06:20.584 --> 06:33.073\n所以副局長你就提到說在台灣失聯的大陸籍的人士現在有多少人現在有1330人那也沒有到5000多個那所以這5000多個數字是怎麼來的他還說這個是過去的數字現在的數字可能會更多\n\n06:39.808 --> 07:07.528\n這個是他的推論啦依照我們的所掌握的那個情收進來的一個資訊來講沒有這麼多人啦因為他是以前是擔任過這一個軍情局的局長這是在國防部嘛對不對那我說他又在這個國防部的相關的你說國防大學有授課那我想說這個訊息國防部國安局這邊是不是要統合一下因為這個數字傳出去很驚人耶五千多個\n\n07:08.829 --> 07:29.702\n我也不知道真假,所以利用這個機會就教兩位我想這個資訊他怎麼來的,我們可能要再就教他不過我剛剛也講過了,我們手頭上所掌握的人數是沒有那麼多所以那也不是共點,你掌握的是說這一個是\n\n07:30.991 --> 07:56.918\n這個中國籍人是在台灣失聯的?對,應該是他把他批錯進來啦那這些失聯的人現在咧?這個是我們各國安情報單位還有甘斯瓦吉拿單位就積極在查找,在查緝的那有什麼具體的成果?因為一千多位是哪時候的數字?這個是近年來,大概近六年來的一個數據啦\n\n07:59.124 --> 08:12.237\n那現在有查出來說這些失聯人到底在哪裡也不知道了嗎?還有繼續再查嗎?有繼續再查這個是專案再查的那有查出有什麼成果出來嗎?有查到什麼嗎?\n\n08:13.650 --> 08:32.082\n如果是查到了這個失聯的這個入境人士的話我們跟捷爾其他情報單位會做一個清詢到底他在台這一段時間失聯這一段時間他的一個行動動態都會做一個清查這個我覺得要查下去因為你也不曉得這1300多個到底現在是在哪裡\n\n08:33.022 --> 08:44.893\n他是在台灣哪裡做什麼樣的事情到底是不是負有任務這其實是國安局都要去查清楚對這個是我們的任務謝謝部長謝謝副局長\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.819,"end":12.469,"text":"謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝個茶 部長可以嗎好 那我們請國防部 顧部長還有我們這個國安局 我們黃副局長是 李委員部長 看一下這個照片"},{"start":23.12,"end":45.877,"text":"那這個是最近在網路上有流傳就是做我們政府元首的一個親密接觸的影像當然這個是身為的一個影片跟影像那現在這一個刑事警察局已經介入調查了那我想請問一下兩位有沒有看過這個影片或是照片我本身沒有看過黃副局長沒有看過"},{"start":47.621,"end":73.488,"text":"那這個利用這個深圍的技術然後做這個不管是正副元首或是說傷害到台灣的影片應該會越來越多那我想請問一下 部長你看到這個用這個深圍的影片故意來破壞正副總統的形象 你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":75.066,"end":92.417,"text":"我想深緯的影像是我們現在應該要重要的一個要能夠讓國人能夠變就是說深緯的這個影像現在網路的傳播的速度非常的快"},{"start":93.237,"end":108.134,"text":"所以對這個深圍影像發生之後我們要立即加以讓公眾知悉這是屬於深圍的這個部分那後來讓也提升這個國人對這方面的識讀我想這個是很重要的"},{"start":109.015,"end":128.15,"text":"你們在這個2024年有公布四種在國防上可能會遇到身為挑戰風險的樣態那有四種那一種是這個網路釣魚攻擊它涉及到竊取個資或機密或是偽造影片 擾亂軍心就像我剛剛放的這個照片一樣還有偽造衛星圖片混淆偵查導致錯判還有製作爭議的訊息加劇對立與仇恨"},{"start":136.576,"end":153.904,"text":"那這四個是在去年國防部有提出來那這一個四種樣態那我請教一下部長那有關於說這個深圍對於這一個國軍的這一個影響那你們最近這一年還有做哪方面的這個措施呢"},{"start":155.842,"end":174.991,"text":"我想身為的這個部分如果對於我想這是屬於一種認知戰認知戰的一個作為我們不是只有我們這個國軍或者國防部會發生事實上是在所有的各領域會發生就我的理解"},{"start":176.572,"end":191.864,"text":"這個是一個跨部會要來進行協作整個國安的體制還有整個全政府都要來做那國安會來講他作為一個統籌跟國安局來進行這樣子的一個協助"},{"start":192.965,"end":215.783,"text":"是相當重要的那我們的話本身就會製作相關的這些在舉光炎帝也好在其他也好我們會強化我們官兵在這方面的一個嗜毒的能力還有利用不斷的一些一個文宣作為來強化民眾嗜毒的能力這樣子"},{"start":216.363,"end":234.102,"text":"那那個國安局的部分呢副局長我想很重要在這個身為的一個技術可以做某些特點的一個分析然後告知國人稍微辨識一下可以知道說這個是一個身為的一個偽造的一個影片那第二"},{"start":235.243,"end":257.695,"text":"警政署跟調查局都有這個辨識的這個設備啦那就可以透過他們做一個更精準的一個這個辨識的一個這個鑑識啦那第三個部分就是如果是確實身為馬上請相關單位做一個審查下架的一個動作讓這個影片不要繼續流傳產生這個認知的問題因為這個影片你說像這一個"},{"start":262.597,"end":285.622,"text":"澤倫斯基他們俄羅斯方面有假冒是澤倫斯基投降的影片等等都有所以在現在當然我們有這個時間去做處理但是有可能在我們做演習的時候類似這種假訊息身為的影片就很容易出來打擊國軍的士氣甚至對於我們的演習"},{"start":287.623,"end":311.205,"text":"給予錯誤的一個印象然後就是說我們的演習其實是怎麼樣不是我們所宣傳的那樣子我想說國防部這方面要怎麼去做因應委員這個指教是非常對所以快速的反應是很重要的然後另外要做反制也就是說它是錯誤的我們馬上不但舉出它的錯誤我們還提出反制的一些作為這個部分是相當重要的"},{"start":313.786,"end":338.521,"text":"那這個整個我個人之前在國安會服務那麼我想這個整個會有一個統籌的一個反制的一個相關的一個作為我是希望說包含這個國安會國安局國防部特別這方面尤其他這個已經針對到國家的元首副元首來做這個身為影片的攻擊我覺得這部分真的要加強注意因為類似的影片我認為會越來越多"},{"start":340.242,"end":360.149,"text":"那我再問最後一個問題就是說那個前國防部的這個軍情局的局長中將劉德良他有在這個政治大學國防大學國安局的這個在授課的時候提到說潛伏在台灣的共諜已經超過五千人了請問有這個數字嗎"},{"start":362.37,"end":378.737,"text":"他這個數字把在台失聯的入境人士都把他算在裡面達到一千三百多位所以這個數據我覺得我們是沒有掌握到那麼多可是他是在國安局的安研班上課都有提到類似的數據"},{"start":380.584,"end":393.073,"text":"所以副局長你就提到說在台灣失聯的大陸籍的人士現在有多少人現在有1330人那也沒有到5000多個那所以這5000多個數字是怎麼來的他還說這個是過去的數字現在的數字可能會更多"},{"start":399.808,"end":427.528,"text":"這個是他的推論啦依照我們的所掌握的那個情收進來的一個資訊來講沒有這麼多人啦因為他是以前是擔任過這一個軍情局的局長這是在國防部嘛對不對那我說他又在這個國防部的相關的你說國防大學有授課那我想說這個訊息國防部國安局這邊是不是要統合一下因為這個數字傳出去很驚人耶五千多個"},{"start":428.829,"end":449.702,"text":"我也不知道真假,所以利用這個機會就教兩位我想這個資訊他怎麼來的,我們可能要再就教他不過我剛剛也講過了,我們手頭上所掌握的人數是沒有那麼多所以那也不是共點,你掌握的是說這一個是"},{"start":450.991,"end":476.918,"text":"這個中國籍人是在台灣失聯的?對,應該是他把他批錯進來啦那這些失聯的人現在咧?這個是我們各國安情報單位還有甘斯瓦吉拿單位就積極在查找,在查緝的那有什麼具體的成果?因為一千多位是哪時候的數字?這個是近年來,大概近六年來的一個數據啦"},{"start":479.124,"end":492.237,"text":"那現在有查出來說這些失聯人到底在哪裡也不知道了嗎?還有繼續再查嗎?有繼續再查 這個是專案再查的那有查出有什麼成果出來嗎?有查到什麼嗎?"},{"start":493.65,"end":512.082,"text":"如果是查到了這個失聯的這個入境人士的話我們跟捷爾其他情報單位會做一個清詢到底他在台這一段時間失聯這一段時間他的一個行動動態都會做一個清查這個我覺得要查下去因為你也不曉得這1300多個到底現在是在哪裡"},{"start":513.022,"end":524.893,"text":"他是在台灣哪裡 做什麼樣的事情到底是不是負有任務這其實是國安局都要去查清楚對 這個是我們的任務謝謝部長 謝謝副局長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":657,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時58分）謝謝主席，先讓部長喝個茶。部長可以了嗎？好，請國防部顧部長、國安局黃副局長。"],["顧部長立雄：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好。請你看一下這張照片，這是最近在網路上流傳的正副元首親密接觸影像，當然，這是深偽的影像，現在刑事警察局已經介入調查。本席想請問一下，兩位有沒有看過這個影片或是照片？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有看過。"],["李委員坤城：黃副局長呢？沒有看過。他利用深偽技術做這件事，不管是正副元首的照片被偽造，或是會傷害到臺灣的影片，未來應該會越來越多，本席想請問一下部長，利用深偽影片故意破壞正副總統的形象，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["顧部長立雄：深偽的影像是我們現在應該重視的問題，要讓國人能夠辨別。因為如果有深偽的影像，現在網路的傳播速度非常快，當有深偽影像流傳時，我們要立即讓公眾知悉這是深偽影像，也要提升國人對這方面的識讀能力，我想這是很重要的。"],["李委員坤城：你們在2024年公布4種國防上可能會遇到的深偽挑戰風險樣態，一種是網路釣魚攻擊，它涉及到竊取個資或機密，或是偽造影片擾亂軍心，就像本席剛才放的這張照片。還有偽造衛星圖片混淆偵查導致錯判，製作爭議的訊息加劇對立與仇恨，這4種樣態是去年國防部提出來的。請教一下部長，有關深偽對國軍的影響，你們最近這一年還有做哪方面的措施呢？"],["顧部長立雄：深偽這個部分是屬於一種認知戰，認知戰的作為不是只有國軍或者國防部會發生，事實上各領域都會發生。就我的理解，這需要跨部會進行協作，包含國安的體制，整個政府都要做，以國安會來說，它作為一個統籌單位，和國安局進行這樣的協作是相當重要的。我們本身就會做相關宣導，不管是在莒光園地或是其他方面，我們會強化官兵對這方面的識讀能力，也會不斷利用文宣強化民眾識讀的能力。"],["李委員坤城：國安局的部分呢？副局長。"],["黃副局長明昭：我想很重要的，就是針對深偽技術做某些特點分析，然後告知國人，其實只要稍微辨識一下就可以知道這是偽造的影片。第二個，警政署和調查局都有辨識的設備，可以透過設備做更精準的檢視。第三個部分，如果確實是深偽，會馬上請相關單位做審查下架的動作，讓這個影片不要繼續流傳，進而產生認知的問題。"],["李委員坤城：出現這樣的影片，比如假冒澤倫斯基投降的影片等等，我們現在當然有時間去做處理，但是例如在我們演習的時候，類似這種假訊息、深偽影片也有可能出現，藉此打擊國軍的士氣，甚至給予錯誤的印象，說我們的演習其實是怎麼樣，並不是我們所宣傳的那樣。國防部針對這方面要怎麼因應？"],["顧部長立雄：對，委員這個指教非常正確，所以快速反應是很重要的，另外還要進行反制。也就是說，它是錯誤的，我們不但要馬上舉出它的錯誤，還要提出反制的作為，這個部分相當重要。我個人之前在國安會服務，國安會會針對這部分統籌進行相關的反制作為。"],["李委員坤城：本席希望包含國安會、國安局、國防部都要注意，特別是針對這方面，尤其是像這個影片，針對國家元首、副元首做深偽影片攻擊，這部分真的要加強注意，因為本席認為類似的影片會越來越多。本席再問最後一個問題，前國防部的軍情局局長劉德良中將，他在政治大學、國防大學、國安局授課時提到，潛伏在臺灣的共諜已經超過5,000人，請問你們有相關的數字嗎？"],["黃副局長明昭：他這個數字是把在臺失聯的大陸籍人士都算在裡面，所以達到一千三百多位，我們是沒有掌握到那麼多。"],["李委員坤城：可是他在國安局的安研班上課時，有提到類似的數據。副局長，你剛才提到在臺灣失聯的大陸籍人士，現在有多少人？"],["黃副局長明昭：現在有1,332位。"],["李委員坤城：也沒有到五千多人啊！"],["黃副局長明昭：是。"],["李委員坤城：所以五千多人這個數字是怎麼來的？他還說這是過去的數字，現在可能更多。"],["黃副局長明昭：這是他的推論啦！依照我們掌握的情蒐資訊，沒有這麼多人。"],["李委員坤城：因為他以前擔任過軍情局局長，這是國防部的單位，對不對？而且他又在國防部相關的國防大學授課。所以針對這個訊息，國防部、國安局是不是要統合一下？因為這個數字傳出去很驚人耶！五千多個。本席不知道真假，所以利用這個機會就教兩位。"],["黃副局長明昭：他這個資訊是怎麼來的，我們可能要再就教他。不過我剛剛也說過，我們手上掌握的人數並沒有那麼多，他會有點……"],["李委員坤城：所以那也不是共諜，你們掌握的是在臺灣失聯的中國籍人士。"],["黃副局長明昭：對。他應該是把這些拼湊進來啦！"],["李委員坤城：現在這些失聯的人呢？"],["黃副局長明昭：各國安情報單位和司法警察單位都在積極查找、查緝。"],["李委員坤城：有什麼具體成果嗎？一千多位是哪時候的數字？"],["黃副局長明昭：這大概是近六年來累計的數據。"],["李委員坤城：現在呢？現在有查到這些失聯的人到底在哪裡嗎？也不知道嗎？還有繼續在查嗎？"],["黃副局長明昭：有繼續在查，這部分是專案在查。"],["李委員坤城：有查出什麼成果嗎？有查到什麼嗎？"],["黃副局長明昭：如果查到失聯的大陸籍人士，我們會結合其他情報單位做清查，他在臺失聯這段時間，針對他的行蹤、動態都會進行清查。"],["李委員坤城：本席認為應該要查下去，因為你們也不曉得這一千三百多人現在到底在哪裡，他在臺灣的哪裡？做什麼事情？是不是負有任務？國安局都要去查清楚。"],["黃副局長明昭：對，這是我們的任務。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝部長，謝謝副局長。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員上臺質詢。","接下來由林倩綺委員上臺質詢。林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員不在。","接下來由劉建國委員上臺質詢。劉建國委員、劉建國委員，劉建國委員不在。","接下來由王鴻薇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-10","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","林憶君","林岱樺"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、外交部部長、國家安全局局長、總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長報告「近\n期國軍、外交部、總統府、國安會遭共諜滲透，其影響國安層面、範圍及未來人員考核管制之具\n體作法」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00005"}}}