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\"start\": 534.292, \"end\": 534.332, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"鄭\"}, {\"word\": \"振\", \"start\": 534.332, \"end\": 534.713, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 534.713, \"end\": 534.733, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,229 --> 00:00:04,452\n行政院開過跨部會的一個會議決定分散處理那回歸主管機關然而實務上主管機關的一個處理也不是萬靈丹那舉例來說文創法運轉條例所以已經針對演唱會體育活動的黃牛進行加重處罰\n\n2\n00:00:27,046 --> 00:00:53,801\n但文化部仍需轉交地方政府進行裁罰而地方政府普遍都反映人力資源有限行政流程繁瑣舉證不易以及導致整個成效低落大量的檢舉卻是成案較少那相較之下社會法可由警察直接處理程序簡便反映快速才是更有效嚇止黃牛的地道防線分散處理最終導致的是權責分散執行無力\n\n3\n00:00:54,261 --> 00:01:09,186\n那黃牛票依然橫行民怨不解所以今天我們才在這邊修這個社會法不是嗎那民眾在乎的是結果那問題沒有被解決喔買票還是買不到啊黃牛還是沒有被處理啊不是今天你們跟行政院開過幾次會\n\n4\n00:01:11,207 --> 00:01:28,004\n主管機關在整個執行上我們就看到心有餘而力不從心就應該要做得更好而不是隨便找藉口搪塞而內政部在這一次我們購買而意圖轉售盈利的相關票券的行為可能屬於未遂但是行政法\n\n5\n00:01:29,005 --> 00:01:50,425\n未規定處罰的未稅行為社會法亦無法處罰這樣子的未稅行為所以我們今天要討論的是意圖轉售圖利的一個行為而不是純粹的未稅行為而是像這樣子的一個情況我要在這邊特別講使用假帳號大量的搶購門票以將票券上架在這些網站上名門標價的一個價格顯示\n\n6\n00:01:53,167 --> 00:02:14,055\n並提供聯繫而準備交易的這個行為這類的行為就是社會秩序的危害具體表現的一個樣態不是只是內心想賣所以我今天提出社會法六四條的一個版本修改為非公自用意圖轉售盈利謀利購買票券上架陳列\n\n7\n00:02:14,595 --> 00:02:43,904\n贩售就应该加以处罚这是我们今天想要一起来探讨希望能够有警察执法人员的一个介入来作为一个更有效的一个执法但是内政部我们看PTT随着各类的票券回归到主管机关80年制定公布执行的社会法第六四条第二款已经完成历史任务并可退场但是黄牛的样态我们可以看到并非只有演唱会跟体育活动其他猪\n\n8\n00:02:44,564 --> 00:03:05,592\n諸多還有像是遊樂票券醫療袋掛號新興黃牛的這些樣態都已經進行了管理這就是之前報導有報過現行醫院或者是民醫這種熱門的門診黃牛在網路上開價卡位掛號轉手賣給有錢人導致真正有需要看病的人反而掛不到號\n\n9\n00:03:06,292 --> 00:03:30,771\n所以我想目前很少用到色違法我剛剛也應該有去詢問過內政部的同仁去年這些樣態用色違法去開罰的幾乎是沒有也是希望在這一次大家聚焦在演唱會運動票卷可是其他的新興黃牛產業是沒有專法可依的所以終究是要回到色違法去做一個處理那我們今天要如何讓色違法更好\n\n10\n00:03:31,511 --> 00:03:48,191\n這是民眾所期待的所以本席針對內政部說已完成歷史任務這個部分來希望社會法64條可以退場我感到不能夠認同那我希望這個部分這個狀況根本就沒有被處理到本席要再一次的提醒內政部長\n\n11\n00:03:49,392 --> 00:04:11,730\n黃牛的樣態真的隨時代代變遷已經逐漸的變成更多元難以察氣的模式社會法64條我個人認為是不能夠退場而且要給予更多的一個多元強化讓黃牛能夠無所遁形否則整個就是還是讓黃牛逍遙法外無法無天這以上是我所提的一個這個版本部長那您覺得呢我講了這麼多\n\n12\n00:04:14,313 --> 00:04:37,433\n剛剛委員所提的部分我不曉得退場是什麼意思我們是說不要修正啦那另外您剛所提到黃牛的樣態當然越來越多但是警察只有一個所以到底由誰來認定黃牛票然後要開罰多少然後他什麼叫做惡意的哄抬那當然是要有目的事業主管機關來幫忙做認定否則你現在所有的工作全部堆給警察的話其實警察沒有辦法百分之百\n\n13\n00:04:38,073 --> 00:05:00,232\n達到一般人去報案的一個結果所以我是說只有單獨去修社會秩序維護法以目前來講不符合分散立法的原則那我剛特別提到如果目的事業主管機關每一個機關都可以把他們對於黃牛的樣態或是他已經產業鏈的處理方式做源頭管理的話那我們在後端的查處一定是可以協助以上\n\n14\n00:05:00,982 --> 00:05:16,116\n我覺得就現在我剛剛所說的我們有去問過內政部那個警政署現在的社會法並沒辦法在去年沒有這樣子的一個去執行沒有去抓那可能是因為他們在這個現階段社會法的運用上是有困難的\n\n15\n00:05:16,816 --> 00:05:42,037\n那當然我能夠認同各個機關的責任也不能夠減少應該要加重但是現階段民眾的期許就是在任何的機關都有一定的責任幫忙協助把黃牛抑制到最低我們當然也希望警政署能夠幫忙但是我也要幫警政署講話的確是非常的繁重業務所以這邊我另外要提署長我從第一年就一直在講台中市的繁重加擠\n\n16\n00:05:43,458 --> 00:06:09,879\n請問一下有沒有下文啊那我們那已經有他說要做在加成的部分我們會做全班的做全國性的這個全部的考慮全國性的檢討那台中有沒有機會第二大城市的那未來我們會把它考量都是會納入考量的我要拜託我們已經是第二大城市台中的繁重佳績不應該去輸給其他的縣市啊再來我想詢問一下最後一個問題問一下我們內政部部長部長\n\n17\n00:06:11,636 --> 00:06:15,237\n您有瞭解過新加坡有一個制度叫做輔警嗎我知道有輔警但是可能沒有委員那麼清楚我不敢說我很清楚但我要跟您探討是一件事情各國都有這樣子的一個樣態其實在我們現階段也看到在警察相關的一些業務上我們看到文書作業也蠻繁重的\n\n18\n00:06:36,824 --> 00:06:53,537\n是不是能夠去聘請更多的文書人員來做支持而不是等待相關的這些警察畢業的同仁第二我們看到新加坡有所謂的輔警制度他們是透過這些相關的一些人才培訓去協助所謂的開罰單\n\n19\n00:06:55,599 --> 00:07:21,520\n交給專業的人士甚至他們的這些制度未來能不能去研議我想現場這個楊瓊英委員也帶我們去新加坡我們去了解這一個制度我不敢說它是最完美但我要講的是現在警察人員的確非常繁重包括剛剛有人在探討的我記得剛剛部長也在說有所謂的改裝噪音噪音管制的一個問題那個是所謂環境部的一個責任但是現階段\n\n20\n00:07:22,461 --> 00:07:43,228\n署長我們是不是今年又有新法所謂的噪音管制改裝噪音排氣管有一部分的認定是交給警察去處理排氣管他去所謂的認定是否源頭處理完以後我們倒交條例去把它沒有鐵牌認證的這些排氣管要加以開罰對吧\n\n21\n00:07:44,048 --> 00:07:59,885\n那這個部分應該是由主管機關來認定業務主管機關他們主要認定整個排氣管他們是否合格到後面執法的時候也是要麻煩警察所以我一再的認同警察的這些相關執行業務是非常繁重\n\n22\n00:08:00,826 --> 00:08:17,820\n那當然我們希望能夠幫忙協助員警能夠增加人力能夠增加福利這是我們最重要的所以我也希望輔警的這個制度在新加坡這個樣態有去執行未來我們是不是能夠來幫忙協助警察人員相關的一些人員進入進駐幫助他們\n\n23\n00:08:20,642 --> 00:08:49,429\n去減少他們的相關業務我們一增一減一起來協助但是我還是回歸到今天的社會法你們有說這個部分上是不需要再去修法甚至在這邊在我們看到的文書上面是有說已經完成歷史任務並可退場這不是我講的所以這部分上的用字遣職我是不能夠認同那我也非常感謝今天我們召委來排審這樣子的一個相關修正草案我們一定是一定支持那也希望所有的委員能夠一起支持謝謝\n\n24\n00:08:51,203 --> 00:08:54,733\n好謝謝羅廷輝委員的質詢下一位我們請鄭振權委員鄭振權委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n229\t4452\t行政院開過跨部會的一個會議決定分散處理那回歸主管機關然而實務上主管機關的一個處理也不是萬靈丹那舉例來說文創法運轉條例所以已經針對演唱會體育活動的黃牛進行加重處罰\n27046\t53801\t但文化部仍需轉交地方政府進行裁罰而地方政府普遍都反映人力資源有限行政流程繁瑣舉證不易以及導致整個成效低落大量的檢舉卻是成案較少那相較之下社會法可由警察直接處理程序簡便反映快速才是更有效嚇止黃牛的地道防線分散處理最終導致的是權責分散執行無力\n54261\t69186\t那黃牛票依然橫行民怨不解所以今天我們才在這邊修這個社會法不是嗎那民眾在乎的是結果那問題沒有被解決喔買票還是買不到啊黃牛還是沒有被處理啊不是今天你們跟行政院開過幾次會\n71207\t88004\t主管機關在整個執行上我們就看到心有餘而力不從心就應該要做得更好而不是隨便找藉口搪塞而內政部在這一次我們購買而意圖轉售盈利的相關票券的行為可能屬於未遂但是行政法\n89005\t110425\t未規定處罰的未稅行為社會法亦無法處罰這樣子的未稅行為所以我們今天要討論的是意圖轉售圖利的一個行為而不是純粹的未稅行為而是像這樣子的一個情況我要在這邊特別講使用假帳號大量的搶購門票以將票券上架在這些網站上名門標價的一個價格顯示\n113167\t134055\t並提供聯繫而準備交易的這個行為這類的行為就是社會秩序的危害具體表現的一個樣態不是只是內心想賣所以我今天提出社會法六四條的一個版本修改為非公自用意圖轉售盈利謀利購買票券上架陳列\n134595\t163904\t贩售就应该加以处罚这是我们今天想要一起来探讨希望能够有警察执法人员的一个介入来作为一个更有效的一个执法但是内政部我们看PTT随着各类的票券回归到主管机关80年制定公布执行的社会法第六四条第二款已经完成历史任务并可退场但是黄牛的样态我们可以看到并非只有演唱会跟体育活动其他猪\n164564\t185592\t諸多還有像是遊樂票券醫療袋掛號新興黃牛的這些樣態都已經進行了管理這就是之前報導有報過現行醫院或者是民醫這種熱門的門診黃牛在網路上開價卡位掛號轉手賣給有錢人導致真正有需要看病的人反而掛不到號\n186292\t210771\t所以我想目前很少用到色違法我剛剛也應該有去詢問過內政部的同仁去年這些樣態用色違法去開罰的幾乎是沒有也是希望在這一次大家聚焦在演唱會運動票卷可是其他的新興黃牛產業是沒有專法可依的所以終究是要回到色違法去做一個處理那我們今天要如何讓色違法更好\n211511\t228191\t這是民眾所期待的所以本席針對內政部說已完成歷史任務這個部分來希望社會法64條可以退場我感到不能夠認同那我希望這個部分這個狀況根本就沒有被處理到本席要再一次的提醒內政部長\n229392\t251730\t黃牛的樣態真的隨時代代變遷已經逐漸的變成更多元難以察氣的模式社會法64條我個人認為是不能夠退場而且要給予更多的一個多元強化讓黃牛能夠無所遁形否則整個就是還是讓黃牛逍遙法外無法無天這以上是我所提的一個這個版本部長那您覺得呢我講了這麼多\n254313\t277433\t剛剛委員所提的部分我不曉得退場是什麼意思我們是說不要修正啦那另外您剛所提到黃牛的樣態當然越來越多但是警察只有一個所以到底由誰來認定黃牛票然後要開罰多少然後他什麼叫做惡意的哄抬那當然是要有目的事業主管機關來幫忙做認定否則你現在所有的工作全部堆給警察的話其實警察沒有辦法百分之百\n278073\t300232\t達到一般人去報案的一個結果所以我是說只有單獨去修社會秩序維護法以目前來講不符合分散立法的原則那我剛特別提到如果目的事業主管機關每一個機關都可以把他們對於黃牛的樣態或是他已經產業鏈的處理方式做源頭管理的話那我們在後端的查處一定是可以協助以上\n300982\t316116\t我覺得就現在我剛剛所說的我們有去問過內政部那個警政署現在的社會法並沒辦法在去年沒有這樣子的一個去執行沒有去抓那可能是因為他們在這個現階段社會法的運用上是有困難的\n316816\t342037\t那當然我能夠認同各個機關的責任也不能夠減少應該要加重但是現階段民眾的期許就是在任何的機關都有一定的責任幫忙協助把黃牛抑制到最低我們當然也希望警政署能夠幫忙但是我也要幫警政署講話的確是非常的繁重業務所以這邊我另外要提署長我從第一年就一直在講台中市的繁重加擠\n343458\t369879\t請問一下有沒有下文啊那我們那已經有他說要做在加成的部分我們會做全班的做全國性的這個全部的考慮全國性的檢討那台中有沒有機會第二大城市的那未來我們會把它考量都是會納入考量的我要拜託我們已經是第二大城市台中的繁重佳績不應該去輸給其他的縣市啊再來我想詢問一下最後一個問題問一下我們內政部部長部長\n371636\t375237\t您有瞭解過新加坡有一個制度叫做輔警嗎我知道有輔警但是可能沒有委員那麼清楚我不敢說我很清楚但我要跟您探討是一件事情各國都有這樣子的一個樣態其實在我們現階段也看到在警察相關的一些業務上我們看到文書作業也蠻繁重的\n396824\t413537\t是不是能夠去聘請更多的文書人員來做支持而不是等待相關的這些警察畢業的同仁第二我們看到新加坡有所謂的輔警制度他們是透過這些相關的一些人才培訓去協助所謂的開罰單\n415599\t441520\t交給專業的人士甚至他們的這些制度未來能不能去研議我想現場這個楊瓊英委員也帶我們去新加坡我們去了解這一個制度我不敢說它是最完美但我要講的是現在警察人員的確非常繁重包括剛剛有人在探討的我記得剛剛部長也在說有所謂的改裝噪音噪音管制的一個問題那個是所謂環境部的一個責任但是現階段\n442461\t463228\t署長我們是不是今年又有新法所謂的噪音管制改裝噪音排氣管有一部分的認定是交給警察去處理排氣管他去所謂的認定是否源頭處理完以後我們倒交條例去把它沒有鐵牌認證的這些排氣管要加以開罰對吧\n464048\t479885\t那這個部分應該是由主管機關來認定業務主管機關他們主要認定整個排氣管他們是否合格到後面執法的時候也是要麻煩警察所以我一再的認同警察的這些相關執行業務是非常繁重\n480826\t497820\t那當然我們希望能夠幫忙協助員警能夠增加人力能夠增加福利這是我們最重要的所以我也希望輔警的這個制度在新加坡這個樣態有去執行未來我們是不是能夠來幫忙協助警察人員相關的一些人員進入進駐幫助他們\n500642\t529429\t去減少他們的相關業務我們一增一減一起來協助但是我還是回歸到今天的社會法你們有說這個部分上是不需要再去修法甚至在這邊在我們看到的文書上面是有說已經完成歷史任務並可退場這不是我講的所以這部分上的用字遣職我是不能夠認同那我也非常感謝今天我們召委來排審這樣子的一個相關修正草案我們一定是一定支持那也希望所有的委員能夠一起支持謝謝\n531203\t534733\t好 謝謝羅廷輝委員的質詢下一位我們請鄭振權委員鄭振權委員\n","txt":"行政院開過跨部會的一個會議決定分散處理那回歸主管機關然而實務上主管機關的一個處理也不是萬靈丹那舉例來說文創法運轉條例所以已經針對演唱會體育活動的黃牛進行加重處罰\n但文化部仍需轉交地方政府進行裁罰而地方政府普遍都反映人力資源有限行政流程繁瑣舉證不易以及導致整個成效低落大量的檢舉卻是成案較少那相較之下社會法可由警察直接處理程序簡便反映快速才是更有效嚇止黃牛的地道防線分散處理最終導致的是權責分散執行無力\n那黃牛票依然橫行民怨不解所以今天我們才在這邊修這個社會法不是嗎那民眾在乎的是結果那問題沒有被解決喔買票還是買不到啊黃牛還是沒有被處理啊不是今天你們跟行政院開過幾次會\n主管機關在整個執行上我們就看到心有餘而力不從心就應該要做得更好而不是隨便找藉口搪塞而內政部在這一次我們購買而意圖轉售盈利的相關票券的行為可能屬於未遂但是行政法\n未規定處罰的未稅行為社會法亦無法處罰這樣子的未稅行為所以我們今天要討論的是意圖轉售圖利的一個行為而不是純粹的未稅行為而是像這樣子的一個情況我要在這邊特別講使用假帳號大量的搶購門票以將票券上架在這些網站上名門標價的一個價格顯示\n並提供聯繫而準備交易的這個行為這類的行為就是社會秩序的危害具體表現的一個樣態不是只是內心想賣所以我今天提出社會法六四條的一個版本修改為非公自用意圖轉售盈利謀利購買票券上架陳列\n贩售就应该加以处罚这是我们今天想要一起来探讨希望能够有警察执法人员的一个介入来作为一个更有效的一个执法但是内政部我们看PTT随着各类的票券回归到主管机关80年制定公布执行的社会法第六四条第二款已经完成历史任务并可退场但是黄牛的样态我们可以看到并非只有演唱会跟体育活动其他猪\n諸多還有像是遊樂票券醫療袋掛號新興黃牛的這些樣態都已經進行了管理這就是之前報導有報過現行醫院或者是民醫這種熱門的門診黃牛在網路上開價卡位掛號轉手賣給有錢人導致真正有需要看病的人反而掛不到號\n所以我想目前很少用到色違法我剛剛也應該有去詢問過內政部的同仁去年這些樣態用色違法去開罰的幾乎是沒有也是希望在這一次大家聚焦在演唱會運動票卷可是其他的新興黃牛產業是沒有專法可依的所以終究是要回到色違法去做一個處理那我們今天要如何讓色違法更好\n這是民眾所期待的所以本席針對內政部說已完成歷史任務這個部分來希望社會法64條可以退場我感到不能夠認同那我希望這個部分這個狀況根本就沒有被處理到本席要再一次的提醒內政部長\n黃牛的樣態真的隨時代代變遷已經逐漸的變成更多元難以察氣的模式社會法64條我個人認為是不能夠退場而且要給予更多的一個多元強化讓黃牛能夠無所遁形否則整個就是還是讓黃牛逍遙法外無法無天這以上是我所提的一個這個版本部長那您覺得呢我講了這麼多\n剛剛委員所提的部分我不曉得退場是什麼意思我們是說不要修正啦那另外您剛所提到黃牛的樣態當然越來越多但是警察只有一個所以到底由誰來認定黃牛票然後要開罰多少然後他什麼叫做惡意的哄抬那當然是要有目的事業主管機關來幫忙做認定否則你現在所有的工作全部堆給警察的話其實警察沒有辦法百分之百\n達到一般人去報案的一個結果所以我是說只有單獨去修社會秩序維護法以目前來講不符合分散立法的原則那我剛特別提到如果目的事業主管機關每一個機關都可以把他們對於黃牛的樣態或是他已經產業鏈的處理方式做源頭管理的話那我們在後端的查處一定是可以協助以上\n我覺得就現在我剛剛所說的我們有去問過內政部那個警政署現在的社會法並沒辦法在去年沒有這樣子的一個去執行沒有去抓那可能是因為他們在這個現階段社會法的運用上是有困難的\n那當然我能夠認同各個機關的責任也不能夠減少應該要加重但是現階段民眾的期許就是在任何的機關都有一定的責任幫忙協助把黃牛抑制到最低我們當然也希望警政署能夠幫忙但是我也要幫警政署講話的確是非常的繁重業務所以這邊我另外要提署長我從第一年就一直在講台中市的繁重加擠\n請問一下有沒有下文啊那我們那已經有他說要做在加成的部分我們會做全班的做全國性的這個全部的考慮全國性的檢討那台中有沒有機會第二大城市的那未來我們會把它考量都是會納入考量的我要拜託我們已經是第二大城市台中的繁重佳績不應該去輸給其他的縣市啊再來我想詢問一下最後一個問題問一下我們內政部部長部長\n您有瞭解過新加坡有一個制度叫做輔警嗎我知道有輔警但是可能沒有委員那麼清楚我不敢說我很清楚但我要跟您探討是一件事情各國都有這樣子的一個樣態其實在我們現階段也看到在警察相關的一些業務上我們看到文書作業也蠻繁重的\n是不是能夠去聘請更多的文書人員來做支持而不是等待相關的這些警察畢業的同仁第二我們看到新加坡有所謂的輔警制度他們是透過這些相關的一些人才培訓去協助所謂的開罰單\n交給專業的人士甚至他們的這些制度未來能不能去研議我想現場這個楊瓊英委員也帶我們去新加坡我們去了解這一個制度我不敢說它是最完美但我要講的是現在警察人員的確非常繁重包括剛剛有人在探討的我記得剛剛部長也在說有所謂的改裝噪音噪音管制的一個問題那個是所謂環境部的一個責任但是現階段\n署長我們是不是今年又有新法所謂的噪音管制改裝噪音排氣管有一部分的認定是交給警察去處理排氣管他去所謂的認定是否源頭處理完以後我們倒交條例去把它沒有鐵牌認證的這些排氣管要加以開罰對吧\n那這個部分應該是由主管機關來認定業務主管機關他們主要認定整個排氣管他們是否合格到後面執法的時候也是要麻煩警察所以我一再的認同警察的這些相關執行業務是非常繁重\n那當然我們希望能夠幫忙協助員警能夠增加人力能夠增加福利這是我們最重要的所以我也希望輔警的這個制度在新加坡這個樣態有去執行未來我們是不是能夠來幫忙協助警察人員相關的一些人員進入進駐幫助他們\n去減少他們的相關業務我們一增一減一起來協助但是我還是回歸到今天的社會法你們有說這個部分上是不需要再去修法甚至在這邊在我們看到的文書上面是有說已經完成歷史任務並可退場這不是我講的所以這部分上的用字遣職我是不能夠認同那我也非常感謝今天我們召委來排審這樣子的一個相關修正草案我們一定是一定支持那也希望所有的委員能夠一起支持謝謝\n好 謝謝羅廷輝委員的質詢下一位我們請鄭振權委員鄭振權委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.229 --> 00:04.452\n行政院開過跨部會的一個會議決定分散處理那回歸主管機關然而實務上主管機關的一個處理也不是萬靈丹那舉例來說文創法運轉條例所以已經針對演唱會體育活動的黃牛進行加重處罰\n\n00:27.046 --> 00:53.801\n但文化部仍需轉交地方政府進行裁罰而地方政府普遍都反映人力資源有限行政流程繁瑣舉證不易以及導致整個成效低落大量的檢舉卻是成案較少那相較之下社會法可由警察直接處理程序簡便反映快速才是更有效嚇止黃牛的地道防線分散處理最終導致的是權責分散執行無力\n\n00:54.261 --> 01:09.186\n那黃牛票依然橫行民怨不解所以今天我們才在這邊修這個社會法不是嗎那民眾在乎的是結果那問題沒有被解決喔買票還是買不到啊黃牛還是沒有被處理啊不是今天你們跟行政院開過幾次會\n\n01:11.207 --> 01:28.004\n主管機關在整個執行上我們就看到心有餘而力不從心就應該要做得更好而不是隨便找藉口搪塞而內政部在這一次我們購買而意圖轉售盈利的相關票券的行為可能屬於未遂但是行政法\n\n01:29.005 --> 01:50.425\n未規定處罰的未稅行為社會法亦無法處罰這樣子的未稅行為所以我們今天要討論的是意圖轉售圖利的一個行為而不是純粹的未稅行為而是像這樣子的一個情況我要在這邊特別講使用假帳號大量的搶購門票以將票券上架在這些網站上名門標價的一個價格顯示\n\n01:53.167 --> 02:14.055\n並提供聯繫而準備交易的這個行為這類的行為就是社會秩序的危害具體表現的一個樣態不是只是內心想賣所以我今天提出社會法六四條的一個版本修改為非公自用意圖轉售盈利謀利購買票券上架陳列\n\n02:14.595 --> 02:43.904\n贩售就应该加以处罚这是我们今天想要一起来探讨希望能够有警察执法人员的一个介入来作为一个更有效的一个执法但是内政部我们看PTT随着各类的票券回归到主管机关80年制定公布执行的社会法第六四条第二款已经完成历史任务并可退场但是黄牛的样态我们可以看到并非只有演唱会跟体育活动其他猪\n\n02:44.564 --> 03:05.592\n諸多還有像是遊樂票券醫療袋掛號新興黃牛的這些樣態都已經進行了管理這就是之前報導有報過現行醫院或者是民醫這種熱門的門診黃牛在網路上開價卡位掛號轉手賣給有錢人導致真正有需要看病的人反而掛不到號\n\n03:06.292 --> 03:30.771\n所以我想目前很少用到色違法我剛剛也應該有去詢問過內政部的同仁去年這些樣態用色違法去開罰的幾乎是沒有也是希望在這一次大家聚焦在演唱會運動票卷可是其他的新興黃牛產業是沒有專法可依的所以終究是要回到色違法去做一個處理那我們今天要如何讓色違法更好\n\n03:31.511 --> 03:48.191\n這是民眾所期待的所以本席針對內政部說已完成歷史任務這個部分來希望社會法64條可以退場我感到不能夠認同那我希望這個部分這個狀況根本就沒有被處理到本席要再一次的提醒內政部長\n\n03:49.392 --> 04:11.730\n黃牛的樣態真的隨時代代變遷已經逐漸的變成更多元難以察氣的模式社會法64條我個人認為是不能夠退場而且要給予更多的一個多元強化讓黃牛能夠無所遁形否則整個就是還是讓黃牛逍遙法外無法無天這以上是我所提的一個這個版本部長那您覺得呢我講了這麼多\n\n04:14.313 --> 04:37.433\n剛剛委員所提的部分我不曉得退場是什麼意思我們是說不要修正啦那另外您剛所提到黃牛的樣態當然越來越多但是警察只有一個所以到底由誰來認定黃牛票然後要開罰多少然後他什麼叫做惡意的哄抬那當然是要有目的事業主管機關來幫忙做認定否則你現在所有的工作全部堆給警察的話其實警察沒有辦法百分之百\n\n04:38.073 --> 05:00.232\n達到一般人去報案的一個結果所以我是說只有單獨去修社會秩序維護法以目前來講不符合分散立法的原則那我剛特別提到如果目的事業主管機關每一個機關都可以把他們對於黃牛的樣態或是他已經產業鏈的處理方式做源頭管理的話那我們在後端的查處一定是可以協助以上\n\n05:00.982 --> 05:16.116\n我覺得就現在我剛剛所說的我們有去問過內政部那個警政署現在的社會法並沒辦法在去年沒有這樣子的一個去執行沒有去抓那可能是因為他們在這個現階段社會法的運用上是有困難的\n\n05:16.816 --> 05:42.037\n那當然我能夠認同各個機關的責任也不能夠減少應該要加重但是現階段民眾的期許就是在任何的機關都有一定的責任幫忙協助把黃牛抑制到最低我們當然也希望警政署能夠幫忙但是我也要幫警政署講話的確是非常的繁重業務所以這邊我另外要提署長我從第一年就一直在講台中市的繁重加擠\n\n05:43.458 --> 06:09.879\n請問一下有沒有下文啊那我們那已經有他說要做在加成的部分我們會做全班的做全國性的這個全部的考慮全國性的檢討那台中有沒有機會第二大城市的那未來我們會把它考量都是會納入考量的我要拜託我們已經是第二大城市台中的繁重佳績不應該去輸給其他的縣市啊再來我想詢問一下最後一個問題問一下我們內政部部長部長\n\n06:11.636 --> 06:15.237\n您有瞭解過新加坡有一個制度叫做輔警嗎我知道有輔警但是可能沒有委員那麼清楚我不敢說我很清楚但我要跟您探討是一件事情各國都有這樣子的一個樣態其實在我們現階段也看到在警察相關的一些業務上我們看到文書作業也蠻繁重的\n\n06:36.824 --> 06:53.537\n是不是能夠去聘請更多的文書人員來做支持而不是等待相關的這些警察畢業的同仁第二我們看到新加坡有所謂的輔警制度他們是透過這些相關的一些人才培訓去協助所謂的開罰單\n\n06:55.599 --> 07:21.520\n交給專業的人士甚至他們的這些制度未來能不能去研議我想現場這個楊瓊英委員也帶我們去新加坡我們去了解這一個制度我不敢說它是最完美但我要講的是現在警察人員的確非常繁重包括剛剛有人在探討的我記得剛剛部長也在說有所謂的改裝噪音噪音管制的一個問題那個是所謂環境部的一個責任但是現階段\n\n07:22.461 --> 07:43.228\n署長我們是不是今年又有新法所謂的噪音管制改裝噪音排氣管有一部分的認定是交給警察去處理排氣管他去所謂的認定是否源頭處理完以後我們倒交條例去把它沒有鐵牌認證的這些排氣管要加以開罰對吧\n\n07:44.048 --> 07:59.885\n那這個部分應該是由主管機關來認定業務主管機關他們主要認定整個排氣管他們是否合格到後面執法的時候也是要麻煩警察所以我一再的認同警察的這些相關執行業務是非常繁重\n\n08:00.826 --> 08:17.820\n那當然我們希望能夠幫忙協助員警能夠增加人力能夠增加福利這是我們最重要的所以我也希望輔警的這個制度在新加坡這個樣態有去執行未來我們是不是能夠來幫忙協助警察人員相關的一些人員進入進駐幫助他們\n\n08:20.642 --> 08:49.429\n去減少他們的相關業務我們一增一減一起來協助但是我還是回歸到今天的社會法你們有說這個部分上是不需要再去修法甚至在這邊在我們看到的文書上面是有說已經完成歷史任務並可退場這不是我講的所以這部分上的用字遣職我是不能夠認同那我也非常感謝今天我們召委來排審這樣子的一個相關修正草案我們一定是一定支持那也希望所有的委員能夠一起支持謝謝\n\n08:51.203 --> 08:54.733\n好謝謝羅廷輝委員的質詢下一位我們請鄭振權委員鄭振權委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.229,"end":4.452,"text":"行政院開過跨部會的一個會議決定分散處理那回歸主管機關然而實務上主管機關的一個處理也不是萬靈丹那舉例來說文創法運轉條例所以已經針對演唱會體育活動的黃牛進行加重處罰"},{"start":27.046,"end":53.801,"text":"但文化部仍需轉交地方政府進行裁罰而地方政府普遍都反映人力資源有限行政流程繁瑣舉證不易以及導致整個成效低落大量的檢舉卻是成案較少那相較之下社會法可由警察直接處理程序簡便反映快速才是更有效嚇止黃牛的地道防線分散處理最終導致的是權責分散執行無力"},{"start":54.261,"end":69.186,"text":"那黃牛票依然橫行民怨不解所以今天我們才在這邊修這個社會法不是嗎那民眾在乎的是結果那問題沒有被解決喔買票還是買不到啊黃牛還是沒有被處理啊不是今天你們跟行政院開過幾次會"},{"start":71.207,"end":88.004,"text":"主管機關在整個執行上我們就看到心有餘而力不從心就應該要做得更好而不是隨便找藉口搪塞而內政部在這一次我們購買而意圖轉售盈利的相關票券的行為可能屬於未遂但是行政法"},{"start":89.005,"end":110.425,"text":"未規定處罰的未稅行為社會法亦無法處罰這樣子的未稅行為所以我們今天要討論的是意圖轉售圖利的一個行為而不是純粹的未稅行為而是像這樣子的一個情況我要在這邊特別講使用假帳號大量的搶購門票以將票券上架在這些網站上名門標價的一個價格顯示"},{"start":113.167,"end":134.055,"text":"並提供聯繫而準備交易的這個行為這類的行為就是社會秩序的危害具體表現的一個樣態不是只是內心想賣所以我今天提出社會法六四條的一個版本修改為非公自用意圖轉售盈利謀利購買票券上架陳列"},{"start":134.595,"end":163.904,"text":"贩售就应该加以处罚这是我们今天想要一起来探讨希望能够有警察执法人员的一个介入来作为一个更有效的一个执法但是内政部我们看PTT随着各类的票券回归到主管机关80年制定公布执行的社会法第六四条第二款已经完成历史任务并可退场但是黄牛的样态我们可以看到并非只有演唱会跟体育活动其他猪"},{"start":164.564,"end":185.592,"text":"諸多還有像是遊樂票券醫療袋掛號新興黃牛的這些樣態都已經進行了管理這就是之前報導有報過現行醫院或者是民醫這種熱門的門診黃牛在網路上開價卡位掛號轉手賣給有錢人導致真正有需要看病的人反而掛不到號"},{"start":186.292,"end":210.771,"text":"所以我想目前很少用到色違法我剛剛也應該有去詢問過內政部的同仁去年這些樣態用色違法去開罰的幾乎是沒有也是希望在這一次大家聚焦在演唱會運動票卷可是其他的新興黃牛產業是沒有專法可依的所以終究是要回到色違法去做一個處理那我們今天要如何讓色違法更好"},{"start":211.511,"end":228.191,"text":"這是民眾所期待的所以本席針對內政部說已完成歷史任務這個部分來希望社會法64條可以退場我感到不能夠認同那我希望這個部分這個狀況根本就沒有被處理到本席要再一次的提醒內政部長"},{"start":229.392,"end":251.73,"text":"黃牛的樣態真的隨時代代變遷已經逐漸的變成更多元難以察氣的模式社會法64條我個人認為是不能夠退場而且要給予更多的一個多元強化讓黃牛能夠無所遁形否則整個就是還是讓黃牛逍遙法外無法無天這以上是我所提的一個這個版本部長那您覺得呢我講了這麼多"},{"start":254.313,"end":277.433,"text":"剛剛委員所提的部分我不曉得退場是什麼意思我們是說不要修正啦那另外您剛所提到黃牛的樣態當然越來越多但是警察只有一個所以到底由誰來認定黃牛票然後要開罰多少然後他什麼叫做惡意的哄抬那當然是要有目的事業主管機關來幫忙做認定否則你現在所有的工作全部堆給警察的話其實警察沒有辦法百分之百"},{"start":278.073,"end":300.232,"text":"達到一般人去報案的一個結果所以我是說只有單獨去修社會秩序維護法以目前來講不符合分散立法的原則那我剛特別提到如果目的事業主管機關每一個機關都可以把他們對於黃牛的樣態或是他已經產業鏈的處理方式做源頭管理的話那我們在後端的查處一定是可以協助以上"},{"start":300.982,"end":316.116,"text":"我覺得就現在我剛剛所說的我們有去問過內政部那個警政署現在的社會法並沒辦法在去年沒有這樣子的一個去執行沒有去抓那可能是因為他們在這個現階段社會法的運用上是有困難的"},{"start":316.816,"end":342.037,"text":"那當然我能夠認同各個機關的責任也不能夠減少應該要加重但是現階段民眾的期許就是在任何的機關都有一定的責任幫忙協助把黃牛抑制到最低我們當然也希望警政署能夠幫忙但是我也要幫警政署講話的確是非常的繁重業務所以這邊我另外要提署長我從第一年就一直在講台中市的繁重加擠"},{"start":343.458,"end":369.879,"text":"請問一下有沒有下文啊那我們那已經有他說要做在加成的部分我們會做全班的做全國性的這個全部的考慮全國性的檢討那台中有沒有機會第二大城市的那未來我們會把它考量都是會納入考量的我要拜託我們已經是第二大城市台中的繁重佳績不應該去輸給其他的縣市啊再來我想詢問一下最後一個問題問一下我們內政部部長部長"},{"start":371.636,"end":375.237,"text":"您有瞭解過新加坡有一個制度叫做輔警嗎我知道有輔警但是可能沒有委員那麼清楚我不敢說我很清楚但我要跟您探討是一件事情各國都有這樣子的一個樣態其實在我們現階段也看到在警察相關的一些業務上我們看到文書作業也蠻繁重的"},{"start":396.824,"end":413.537,"text":"是不是能夠去聘請更多的文書人員來做支持而不是等待相關的這些警察畢業的同仁第二我們看到新加坡有所謂的輔警制度他們是透過這些相關的一些人才培訓去協助所謂的開罰單"},{"start":415.599,"end":441.52,"text":"交給專業的人士甚至他們的這些制度未來能不能去研議我想現場這個楊瓊英委員也帶我們去新加坡我們去了解這一個制度我不敢說它是最完美但我要講的是現在警察人員的確非常繁重包括剛剛有人在探討的我記得剛剛部長也在說有所謂的改裝噪音噪音管制的一個問題那個是所謂環境部的一個責任但是現階段"},{"start":442.461,"end":463.228,"text":"署長我們是不是今年又有新法所謂的噪音管制改裝噪音排氣管有一部分的認定是交給警察去處理排氣管他去所謂的認定是否源頭處理完以後我們倒交條例去把它沒有鐵牌認證的這些排氣管要加以開罰對吧"},{"start":464.048,"end":479.885,"text":"那這個部分應該是由主管機關來認定業務主管機關他們主要認定整個排氣管他們是否合格到後面執法的時候也是要麻煩警察所以我一再的認同警察的這些相關執行業務是非常繁重"},{"start":480.826,"end":497.82,"text":"那當然我們希望能夠幫忙協助員警能夠增加人力能夠增加福利這是我們最重要的所以我也希望輔警的這個制度在新加坡這個樣態有去執行未來我們是不是能夠來幫忙協助警察人員相關的一些人員進入進駐幫助他們"},{"start":500.642,"end":529.429,"text":"去減少他們的相關業務我們一增一減一起來協助但是我還是回歸到今天的社會法你們有說這個部分上是不需要再去修法甚至在這邊在我們看到的文書上面是有說已經完成歷史任務並可退場這不是我講的所以這部分上的用字遣職我是不能夠認同那我也非常感謝今天我們召委來排審這樣子的一個相關修正草案我們一定是一定支持那也希望所有的委員能夠一起支持謝謝"},{"start":531.203,"end":534.733,"text":"好 謝謝羅廷輝委員的質詢下一位我們請鄭振權委員鄭振權委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":855,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時30分）謝謝召委，有請部長及署長。"],["主席：請劉部長及張署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長好。行政院開過跨部會的會議決定分散處理，回歸主管機關，然而實務上主管機關的處理也不是萬靈丹；舉例來說，文創法及運產條例雖已經針對演唱會及體育活動的黃牛行為加重處罰，但文化部仍需轉交地方政府進行裁罰，而地方政府普遍都反映人力資源有限、行政流程繁瑣、舉證不易，導致整個處理成效低落，大量的檢舉但實際成案卻少。相較之下，社維法可由警察直接處理，程序簡便、反應快速，才是更有效遏止黃牛的第一道防線。分散處理最終導致的是權責分散、執行無力，黃牛票依然橫行、民怨不減，所以今天我們才在這邊修社維法，不是嗎？","民眾在乎的是結果，問題沒有被解決，買票還是買不到，黃牛還是沒有被處理，不是今天你們跟行政院開過幾次會，主管機關在整個執行上，我們看到心有餘而力不足，就應該要做得更好，而不是隨便找藉口搪塞。內政部提到購買而意圖轉售營利相關票券的行為，可能屬於未遂，但是行政罰未規定處罰未遂行為，社維法亦無法處罰這樣子未遂行為。但我們今天要討論的是意圖轉售營利的行為，而不是純粹的未遂行為，像這樣子的情況，使用假帳號大量的搶購門票，已將票券上架在這些網站上，明碼標價並提供聯繫而準備交易的行為，這類行為已構成社會秩序危害的具體表現樣態，不是只是內心想賣而已。所以我今天提出社維法第六十四條的版本，修改為非供自用、意圖轉售謀利，購買票券上架陳列販售就應該加以處罰，這是我們今天想要一起來探討，希望能夠由警察、執法人員的介入，以作為更有效的執法。","從內政部提供的意見中，隨著各類的票券回歸到主管機關處理，80年制定公布執行的社維法第六十四條第二款已經完成歷史任務並可退場，但是黃牛的樣態，並非只有演唱會跟體育活動，其他諸多的像遊樂票券、醫療代掛號這些新興的黃牛樣態都應該進行管理；之前有報導過，現在醫院或者是名醫，這種熱門的門診，黃牛在網路上開高價卡位掛號，再轉手賣給有錢人，導致真正有需要看病的人反而掛不到號。目前很少用到社維法，我剛剛有去詢問過內政部的同仁，去年這些樣態用社維法開罰的幾乎是沒有，也是希望在這一次大家聚焦在演唱會及運動票券，可是其他的新興黃牛產業是沒有專法可處罰的，所以終究要回到社維法去處理。我們今天要如何讓社維法更好？這是民眾所期待的，所以本席針對內政部表示已完成歷史任務的部分，希望社維法第六十四條可以退場，我感到不能夠認同，因為這個狀況根本就沒有被處理到。","本席要再一次的提醒內政部部長，黃牛的樣態隨時代在變遷，已經逐漸的變成更多元、更難以查緝的模式，我個人認為社維法第六十四條是不能退場，而且要給予更多元及強化，讓黃牛能夠無所遁形，否則還是會讓黃牛逍遙法外，無法無天。這以上是我所提的版本，部長覺得呢？我講了這麼多。"],["劉部長世芳：剛剛委員所提的部分，我不曉得退場是什麼意思？我們是說不要修正。另外，您剛提到黃牛的樣態，當然越來越多，但是警察只有一個，所以到底由誰來認定黃牛票？要開罰多少？什麼叫做惡意的哄抬？當然是由目的事業主管機關幫忙認定，否則現在所有的工作全部推給警察的話，其實警察沒有辦法百分之百達到一般人去報案的結果。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這我認同，警察勤務真的繁重。"],["劉部長世芳：所以只有單獨修社會秩序維護法，以目前來講不符合「分散立法」的原則。我剛特別提到，如果每一個目的事業主管機關都可以把他們對於黃牛的樣態，或是已經可以把產業鏈處理方式做源頭管理的話，我們在後端的查處，一定是可以協助。以上。"],["羅委員廷瑋：剛剛我所提到的，我們有去問過內政部警政署，在去年沒辦法以現在的社維法執行抓捕，可能是因為在現階段社維法的運用上是有困難的，當然我能夠認同各個機關的責任也不能夠減少，應該要加重，但是現階段民眾的期許，是在任何的機關都有一定的責任，幫忙協助把黃牛抑制到最低，也希望警政署能夠幫忙，但是我也要幫警政署講話，業務的確是非常的繁重。另外，署長，我從第一年就一直有在提臺中市警務人員的繁重加給，請問有沒有下文？"],["張署長榮興：我們會作全國性的考量。"],["羅委員廷瑋：全國性的檢討，臺中有沒有機會？第二大城市了。"],["張署長榮興：再加成的部分，未來我們都會納入考量的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我要拜託，我們臺中已經是第二大城市，繁重加給不應該輸給其他的縣市。再來，最後一個問題，部長有了解過新加坡有一個制度叫做輔警嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我知道有輔警，但是可能沒有委員那麼清楚。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我不敢說我很清楚，但我要跟您探討一件事情，其實各國都有這樣子的樣態，像現階段在警察相關的一些業務上，我們看到文書作業蠻繁重的，是不是能夠聘請更多的文書人員來協助？而不是等待相關的這些警察畢業的同仁。第二，我們看到新加坡有所謂的輔警制度，他們是透過相關人才的培訓，協助開罰單，再交給專業的人士，甚至他們的制度，未來我們能不能去研議？現場的楊瓊瓔委員曾帶我們去新加坡，到當地去了解這個制度，我不敢說它是最完美，但我要講的是，現在警察人員的勤務的確非常繁重，包括剛剛有人在探討的，剛剛部長也有提到的，改裝噪音及噪音管制的問題，這是環境部的責任；署長，我們今年是不是又有新法，有一部分噪音管制及改裝排氣管的噪音認定是交由警察處理的？"],["張署長榮興：那是道路交通管理處罰條例。"],["羅委員廷瑋：它有排氣管，認定是否源頭處理完以後，利用道交條例把沒有鐵牌認證的這些排氣管車輛加以開罰，對吧？"],["張署長榮興：這個部分應該是由業務主管機關來認定。"],["羅委員廷瑋：業務主管機關主要認定整個排氣管是否合格，到後面執法的時候，也是要麻煩警察，所以我一再的認同警察的這些相關執行業務是非常繁重，我們希望能夠幫忙協助員警、增加人力及增加福利，這是我們最重要的；所以我希望參考新加坡執行這些樣態的輔警制度，未來我們是不是能夠有相關的人員進駐幫忙及協助警察人員，以減少他們的業務，我們一增一減一起來協助。","還是回歸到今天社維法的修法，你們有提到這個部分是不需要再去修法，甚至在文書上有說明已經完成歷史任務並可退場，這不是我講的，這部分的用字遣詞我不能夠認同，也非常感謝今天我們召委排審社維法相關的修正草案，我們是一定支持，也希望所有的委員能夠一起支持，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員的質詢。","下一位請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","下一位請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-13","speakers":["牛煦庭","高金素梅","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","張宏陸","黃捷","許宇甄","黃建賓","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","邱志偉","丁學忠"],"page_start":81,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員\n高金素梅等21人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等24\n人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員林思銘等22人擬具「社會\n秩序維護法第六十四條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員魯明哲等17人擬具「社會秩序維護法第\n八十九條條文修正草案」案；六、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條及第七\n十二條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員邱若華等19人擬具「社會秩序維護法第六十四條條文修\n正草案」案；八、審查委員邱若華等19人擬具「社會秩序維護法第七十二條條文修正草案」案；\n九、審查委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「社會秩序維護法第九條條文修正草案」案；十、審查委員顏寬\n恒等16人擬具「社會秩序維護法第八十九條條文修正草案」案；十一、審查委員魯明哲等18人擬\n具「社會秩序維護法第八十九條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1144101_00002"}}}