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485.02, \"end\": 485.04, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 485.04, \"end\": 485.06, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:00,189\n國防部長\n\n2\n00:00:24,515 --> 00:00:47,842\n部長其實我主要是要問國安會吳釗燮秘書長的案子但是因為您也做過國安會的秘書長我想請問一下因為這一次爆發的是國安會秘書長吳釗燮他有一個跟著他十多年的資深助理涉入了共諜案\n\n3\n00:00:48,602 --> 00:01:07,792\n那他這邊有一個比較嚴重的問題就是呢在星期一我們在做質詢的時候就在隔壁調查局說這位何仁傑他只有在任用的時候呢就是進入國安會的時候曾經做過一次忠誠查核\n\n4\n00:01:09,213 --> 00:01:36,374\n那麼之後呢他就再也沒有做過任何的忠誠查核或者其他的特殊查核那我後來在禮拜一的時候我也請教外交部的部長因為他進入國安會他第一次是先進入國安會然後他再跟著進外交部根據我們公務人員服務法裡面明文規定我們這些人員當你出任\n\n5\n00:01:37,835 --> 00:01:53,888\n調任在任的時候都需要再做查核而且如果你是會接觸到機敏的資料國防有個重大的國安資料的時候他還要再做特殊查核\n\n6\n00:01:54,528 --> 00:02:20,462\n好所以呢事實上已經證明吳釗燮秘書長他有違法之遇他沒有讓跟著他十多年的助理然後依循這個我們公務人員服務法相關的規定好所以這邊我就請教部長您做過國安會秘書長然後現在也做國防部部長這都是重大的國安的機構我想請問您\n\n7\n00:02:22,023 --> 00:02:37,313\n跟著你的資深的助理也好如果你也是從國安會到國防部那麼在你身邊的人有沒有依照公務人員服務法來做相關的查核\n\n8\n00:02:38,395 --> 00:03:01,998\n跟委員報告,您剛剛提到的,因為剛剛外交部次長也提過了在2016的時候,核心進入國安會的時候,就有做過特殊查核所以國安會進來的部分,如果會相關的這些機要的運用,因為國安會不是一個機敏單位嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:03,039 --> 00:03:21,809\n那都會做相關的特殊查核那國防部的部分我想我們我現在是國防部在國防部服務所以有關國防部的這一個揭秘資格的一些相關的作為我剛剛在前面有好幾位委員我都已經答詢過了我們現在有一個\n\n10\n00:03:23,170 --> 00:03:37,650\n國軍涉密人員安全調查作業的規定在今年2月定班那都以涉密的這個等級就是包括他是能夠接觸密、機密、極機密跟絕對機密然後來做不同深度跟廣度的查核\n\n11\n00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:46,837\n那我請問部長根據你自己做過國安會秘書長也做國防部部長以現在我們剛才講的狀況您覺得吳釗燮秘書長應不應該停職來接受調查\n\n12\n00:03:53,454 --> 00:04:19,634\n我想委員的問題我沒有辦法加以評論那因為現在就我的理解因為剛剛外交部也都有回答過其他的一些問題現在主要就是說行政院要會同考生有訂定一個涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員的特殊查核辦法這個特查的這個辦法裡面它會有一個各機關要辦理特查職務的一個一覽表\n\n13\n00:04:20,535 --> 00:04:36,054\n那就這個部分我想院裡面正在檢討這個你們都是辦法我剛剛講的是公務人員服務法這個還不是辦法不是你們的這些行政命令如果基本上\n\n14\n00:04:38,136 --> 00:05:03,067\n連公務人員服務法通相關的規定都違反了那請問一下吳釗燮秘書長是不是應該停職接受調查因為他的這些機要而且或者他任用的一等資義竟然沒有依法來接受相關的不要說特殊調查依法應該接受的這個中程調查他都沒有接受難道不應該停職調查嗎\n\n15\n00:05:04,551 --> 00:05:14,120\n因為剛剛外交部也回答了,那個何先生按照這個特查的辦法,因為他好像不具有公務員的身份,然後是屬於聘僱人員\n\n16\n00:05:15,663 --> 00:05:40,412\n一般的所以只是進行一般的查核沒有辦法進行所謂特殊查核但好像我因為我只是今天一起同來備詢委員來問我的話似乎應該問外交部因為他們有做過一般的查核我了解我了解因為我剛剛就講嘛真正應該在在上面備詢的人畏罪潛逃心虛不敢來那另外請教一下我們在講一些我們在講一些就是說\n\n17\n00:05:42,913 --> 00:05:45,654\n一些涉嫌就是涉入共諜案因為確實我們在國軍裡面也有很多的單位就出現了這些相關的問題那比如說最近包含就是在我們的士林憲兵隊出現五星旗的飄揚或者是憲兵裡面也有士官涉入了共諜案而且有不法獲利\n\n18\n00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:36,777\n然後再加上我們的私通電軍以及憲兵的士官兵也有涉嫌涉入共諜案憲兵抓共諜結果共諜在憲兵裡面所以我想請問部長在這個部分那國防部要如何的防範要如何防止抓共諜的單位裡面卻一而再再而三的發生像這樣子涉入共諜的情勢\n\n19\n00:06:38,134 --> 00:06:54,550\n我想我們對這個當然變成共諜,這感到痛心但是我還是跟委員報告,這個案子其實就是官兵主動檢舉所以我們要加強這樣子的一個保防教育那也看到我們有87.5的案子\n\n20\n00:06:56,332 --> 00:07:24,467\n都是由官兵檢舉產生的所以可見保防教育的重要性那另外剛剛也提到了人員考核的管制也是相當重要所以我們剛剛也提到了我們不但要做保防教育的一個宣導一直到這個最基層的官兵然後當然人員的涉密的能夠他要承辦涉密這個時候呢我們要對於他派任這些機敏族或涉密的這個部分呢\n\n21\n00:07:24,967 --> 00:07:40,159\n要從事這個安全的查核這個部分也是重要的所以我想我們一方面要加強保防教育然後一方面要加強人員的查核這個部分是我們應該要努力精進的\n\n22\n00:07:40,839 --> 00:08:05,060\n好那我希望就說在國軍裡面其實不管是退役或者是現役其實我們都會希望這些相關的涉入共諜案能夠減少而且最好就是從此以後就不要再聽到好不好謝謝是我也希望我們精進的之後呢能夠不要讓這樣的事情發生最主要就是要具有敵我的意識好謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t189\t國防部長\n24515\t47842\t部長 其實我主要是要問國安會吳釗燮秘書長的案子但是因為您也做過國安會的秘書長我想請問一下 因為這一次爆發的是國安會秘書長吳釗燮他有一個跟著他十多年的資深助理 涉入了共諜案\n48602\t67792\t那他這邊有一個比較嚴重的問題就是呢在星期一我們在做質詢的時候就在隔壁調查局說這位何仁傑他只有在任用的時候呢就是進入國安會的時候曾經做過一次忠誠查核\n69213\t96374\t那麼之後呢他就再也沒有做過任何的忠誠查核或者其他的特殊查核那我後來在禮拜一的時候我也請教外交部的部長因為他進入國安會他第一次是先進入國安會然後他再跟著進外交部根據我們公務人員服務法裡面明文規定我們這些人員當你出任\n97835\t113888\t調任在任的時候都需要再做查核而且如果你是會接觸到機敏的資料國防有個重大的國安資料的時候他還要再做特殊查核\n114528\t140462\t好所以呢事實上已經證明吳釗燮秘書長他有違法之遇他沒有讓跟著他十多年的助理然後依循這個我們公務人員服務法相關的規定好所以這邊我就請教部長您做過國安會秘書長然後現在也做國防部部長這都是重大的國安的機構我想請問您\n142023\t157313\t跟著你的資深的助理也好如果你也是從國安會到國防部那麼在你身邊的人有沒有依照公務人員服務法來做相關的查核\n158395\t181998\t跟委員報告,您剛剛提到的,因為剛剛外交部次長也提過了在2016的時候,核心進入國安會的時候,就有做過特殊查核所以國安會進來的部分,如果會相關的這些機要的運用,因為國安會不是一個機敏單位嗎?\n183039\t201809\t那都會做相關的特殊查核那國防部的部分我想我們我現在是國防部在國防部服務所以有關國防部的這一個揭秘資格的一些相關的作為我剛剛在前面有好幾位委員我都已經答詢過了我們現在有一個\n203170\t217650\t國軍涉密人員安全調查作業的規定在今年2月定班那都以涉密的這個等級就是包括他是能夠接觸密、機密、極機密跟絕對機密然後來做不同深度跟廣度的查核\n217990\t226837\t那我請問部長根據你自己做過國安會秘書長也做國防部部長以現在我們剛才講的狀況您覺得吳釗燮秘書長應不應該停職來接受調查\n233454\t259634\t我想委員的問題我沒有辦法加以評論那因為現在就我的理解因為剛剛外交部也都有回答過其他的一些問題現在主要就是說行政院要會同考生有訂定一個涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員的特殊查核辦法這個特查的這個辦法裡面它會有一個各機關要辦理特查職務的一個一覽表\n260535\t276054\t那就這個部分我想院裡面正在檢討這個你們都是辦法我剛剛講的是公務人員服務法這個還不是辦法不是你們的這些行政命令如果基本上\n278136\t303067\t連公務人員服務法通相關的規定都違反了那請問一下吳釗燮秘書長是不是應該停職接受調查因為他的這些機要而且或者他任用的一等資義竟然沒有依法來接受相關的不要說特殊調查依法應該接受的這個中程調查他都沒有接受難道不應該停職調查嗎\n304551\t314120\t因為剛剛外交部也回答了,那個何先生按照這個特查的辦法,因為他好像不具有公務員的身份,然後是屬於聘僱人員\n315663\t340412\t一般的 所以只是進行一般的查核 沒有辦法進行所謂特殊查核但好像我 因為我只是今天一起同來備詢委員來問我的話似乎應該問外交部 因為他們有做過一般的查核我了解 我了解 因為我剛剛就講嘛 真正應該在在上面備詢的人 畏罪潛逃 心虛不敢來那另外請教一下 我們在講一些 我們在講一些就是說\n342913\t345654\t一些涉嫌就是涉入共諜案因為確實我們在國軍裡面也有很多的單位就出現了這些相關的問題那比如說最近包含就是在我們的士林憲兵隊出現五星旗的飄揚或者是憲兵裡面也有士官涉入了共諜案而且有不法獲利\n368320\t396777\t然後再加上我們的私通電軍以及憲兵的士官兵也有涉嫌涉入共諜案憲兵抓共諜結果共諜在憲兵裡面所以我想請問部長在這個部分那國防部要如何的防範要如何防止抓共諜的單位裡面卻一而再再而三的發生像這樣子涉入共諜的情勢\n398134\t414550\t我想我們對這個當然變成共諜,這感到痛心但是我還是跟委員報告,這個案子其實就是官兵主動檢舉所以我們要加強這樣子的一個保防教育那也看到我們有87.5的案子\n416332\t444467\t都是由官兵檢舉產生的所以可見保防教育的重要性那另外剛剛也提到了人員考核的管制也是相當重要所以我們剛剛也提到了我們不但要做保防教育的一個宣導一直到這個最基層的官兵然後當然人員的涉密的能夠他要承辦涉密這個時候呢我們要對於他派任這些機敏族或涉密的這個部分呢\n444967\t460159\t要從事這個安全的查核這個部分也是重要的所以我想我們一方面要加強保防教育然後一方面要加強人員的查核這個部分是我們應該要努力精進的\n460839\t485060\t好 那我希望就說在國軍裡面其實不管是退役或者是現役其實我們都會希望這些相關的涉入共諜案能夠減少而且最好就是從此以後就不要再聽到好不好 謝謝是 我也希望我們精進的之後呢能夠不要讓這樣的事情發生最主要就是要具有敵我的意識好 謝謝部長\n","txt":"國防部長\n部長 其實我主要是要問國安會吳釗燮秘書長的案子但是因為您也做過國安會的秘書長我想請問一下 因為這一次爆發的是國安會秘書長吳釗燮他有一個跟著他十多年的資深助理 涉入了共諜案\n那他這邊有一個比較嚴重的問題就是呢在星期一我們在做質詢的時候就在隔壁調查局說這位何仁傑他只有在任用的時候呢就是進入國安會的時候曾經做過一次忠誠查核\n那麼之後呢他就再也沒有做過任何的忠誠查核或者其他的特殊查核那我後來在禮拜一的時候我也請教外交部的部長因為他進入國安會他第一次是先進入國安會然後他再跟著進外交部根據我們公務人員服務法裡面明文規定我們這些人員當你出任\n調任在任的時候都需要再做查核而且如果你是會接觸到機敏的資料國防有個重大的國安資料的時候他還要再做特殊查核\n好所以呢事實上已經證明吳釗燮秘書長他有違法之遇他沒有讓跟著他十多年的助理然後依循這個我們公務人員服務法相關的規定好所以這邊我就請教部長您做過國安會秘書長然後現在也做國防部部長這都是重大的國安的機構我想請問您\n跟著你的資深的助理也好如果你也是從國安會到國防部那麼在你身邊的人有沒有依照公務人員服務法來做相關的查核\n跟委員報告,您剛剛提到的,因為剛剛外交部次長也提過了在2016的時候,核心進入國安會的時候,就有做過特殊查核所以國安會進來的部分,如果會相關的這些機要的運用,因為國安會不是一個機敏單位嗎?\n那都會做相關的特殊查核那國防部的部分我想我們我現在是國防部在國防部服務所以有關國防部的這一個揭秘資格的一些相關的作為我剛剛在前面有好幾位委員我都已經答詢過了我們現在有一個\n國軍涉密人員安全調查作業的規定在今年2月定班那都以涉密的這個等級就是包括他是能夠接觸密、機密、極機密跟絕對機密然後來做不同深度跟廣度的查核\n那我請問部長根據你自己做過國安會秘書長也做國防部部長以現在我們剛才講的狀況您覺得吳釗燮秘書長應不應該停職來接受調查\n我想委員的問題我沒有辦法加以評論那因為現在就我的理解因為剛剛外交部也都有回答過其他的一些問題現在主要就是說行政院要會同考生有訂定一個涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員的特殊查核辦法這個特查的這個辦法裡面它會有一個各機關要辦理特查職務的一個一覽表\n那就這個部分我想院裡面正在檢討這個你們都是辦法我剛剛講的是公務人員服務法這個還不是辦法不是你們的這些行政命令如果基本上\n連公務人員服務法通相關的規定都違反了那請問一下吳釗燮秘書長是不是應該停職接受調查因為他的這些機要而且或者他任用的一等資義竟然沒有依法來接受相關的不要說特殊調查依法應該接受的這個中程調查他都沒有接受難道不應該停職調查嗎\n因為剛剛外交部也回答了,那個何先生按照這個特查的辦法,因為他好像不具有公務員的身份,然後是屬於聘僱人員\n一般的 所以只是進行一般的查核 沒有辦法進行所謂特殊查核但好像我 因為我只是今天一起同來備詢委員來問我的話似乎應該問外交部 因為他們有做過一般的查核我了解 我了解 因為我剛剛就講嘛 真正應該在在上面備詢的人 畏罪潛逃 心虛不敢來那另外請教一下 我們在講一些 我們在講一些就是說\n一些涉嫌就是涉入共諜案因為確實我們在國軍裡面也有很多的單位就出現了這些相關的問題那比如說最近包含就是在我們的士林憲兵隊出現五星旗的飄揚或者是憲兵裡面也有士官涉入了共諜案而且有不法獲利\n然後再加上我們的私通電軍以及憲兵的士官兵也有涉嫌涉入共諜案憲兵抓共諜結果共諜在憲兵裡面所以我想請問部長在這個部分那國防部要如何的防範要如何防止抓共諜的單位裡面卻一而再再而三的發生像這樣子涉入共諜的情勢\n我想我們對這個當然變成共諜,這感到痛心但是我還是跟委員報告,這個案子其實就是官兵主動檢舉所以我們要加強這樣子的一個保防教育那也看到我們有87.5的案子\n都是由官兵檢舉產生的所以可見保防教育的重要性那另外剛剛也提到了人員考核的管制也是相當重要所以我們剛剛也提到了我們不但要做保防教育的一個宣導一直到這個最基層的官兵然後當然人員的涉密的能夠他要承辦涉密這個時候呢我們要對於他派任這些機敏族或涉密的這個部分呢\n要從事這個安全的查核這個部分也是重要的所以我想我們一方面要加強保防教育然後一方面要加強人員的查核這個部分是我們應該要努力精進的\n好 那我希望就說在國軍裡面其實不管是退役或者是現役其實我們都會希望這些相關的涉入共諜案能夠減少而且最好就是從此以後就不要再聽到好不好 謝謝是 我也希望我們精進的之後呢能夠不要讓這樣的事情發生最主要就是要具有敵我的意識好 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:00.189\n國防部長\n\n00:24.515 --> 00:47.842\n部長其實我主要是要問國安會吳釗燮秘書長的案子但是因為您也做過國安會的秘書長我想請問一下因為這一次爆發的是國安會秘書長吳釗燮他有一個跟著他十多年的資深助理涉入了共諜案\n\n00:48.602 --> 01:07.792\n那他這邊有一個比較嚴重的問題就是呢在星期一我們在做質詢的時候就在隔壁調查局說這位何仁傑他只有在任用的時候呢就是進入國安會的時候曾經做過一次忠誠查核\n\n01:09.213 --> 01:36.374\n那麼之後呢他就再也沒有做過任何的忠誠查核或者其他的特殊查核那我後來在禮拜一的時候我也請教外交部的部長因為他進入國安會他第一次是先進入國安會然後他再跟著進外交部根據我們公務人員服務法裡面明文規定我們這些人員當你出任\n\n01:37.835 --> 01:53.888\n調任在任的時候都需要再做查核而且如果你是會接觸到機敏的資料國防有個重大的國安資料的時候他還要再做特殊查核\n\n01:54.528 --> 02:20.462\n好所以呢事實上已經證明吳釗燮秘書長他有違法之遇他沒有讓跟著他十多年的助理然後依循這個我們公務人員服務法相關的規定好所以這邊我就請教部長您做過國安會秘書長然後現在也做國防部部長這都是重大的國安的機構我想請問您\n\n02:22.023 --> 02:37.313\n跟著你的資深的助理也好如果你也是從國安會到國防部那麼在你身邊的人有沒有依照公務人員服務法來做相關的查核\n\n02:38.395 --> 03:01.998\n跟委員報告,您剛剛提到的,因為剛剛外交部次長也提過了在2016的時候,核心進入國安會的時候,就有做過特殊查核所以國安會進來的部分,如果會相關的這些機要的運用,因為國安會不是一個機敏單位嗎?\n\n03:03.039 --> 03:21.809\n那都會做相關的特殊查核那國防部的部分我想我們我現在是國防部在國防部服務所以有關國防部的這一個揭秘資格的一些相關的作為我剛剛在前面有好幾位委員我都已經答詢過了我們現在有一個\n\n03:23.170 --> 03:37.650\n國軍涉密人員安全調查作業的規定在今年2月定班那都以涉密的這個等級就是包括他是能夠接觸密、機密、極機密跟絕對機密然後來做不同深度跟廣度的查核\n\n03:37.990 --> 03:46.837\n那我請問部長根據你自己做過國安會秘書長也做國防部部長以現在我們剛才講的狀況您覺得吳釗燮秘書長應不應該停職來接受調查\n\n03:53.454 --> 04:19.634\n我想委員的問題我沒有辦法加以評論那因為現在就我的理解因為剛剛外交部也都有回答過其他的一些問題現在主要就是說行政院要會同考生有訂定一個涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員的特殊查核辦法這個特查的這個辦法裡面它會有一個各機關要辦理特查職務的一個一覽表\n\n04:20.535 --> 04:36.054\n那就這個部分我想院裡面正在檢討這個你們都是辦法我剛剛講的是公務人員服務法這個還不是辦法不是你們的這些行政命令如果基本上\n\n04:38.136 --> 05:03.067\n連公務人員服務法通相關的規定都違反了那請問一下吳釗燮秘書長是不是應該停職接受調查因為他的這些機要而且或者他任用的一等資義竟然沒有依法來接受相關的不要說特殊調查依法應該接受的這個中程調查他都沒有接受難道不應該停職調查嗎\n\n05:04.551 --> 05:14.120\n因為剛剛外交部也回答了,那個何先生按照這個特查的辦法,因為他好像不具有公務員的身份,然後是屬於聘僱人員\n\n05:15.663 --> 05:40.412\n一般的所以只是進行一般的查核沒有辦法進行所謂特殊查核但好像我因為我只是今天一起同來備詢委員來問我的話似乎應該問外交部因為他們有做過一般的查核我了解我了解因為我剛剛就講嘛真正應該在在上面備詢的人畏罪潛逃心虛不敢來那另外請教一下我們在講一些我們在講一些就是說\n\n05:42.913 --> 05:45.654\n一些涉嫌就是涉入共諜案因為確實我們在國軍裡面也有很多的單位就出現了這些相關的問題那比如說最近包含就是在我們的士林憲兵隊出現五星旗的飄揚或者是憲兵裡面也有士官涉入了共諜案而且有不法獲利\n\n06:08.320 --> 06:36.777\n然後再加上我們的私通電軍以及憲兵的士官兵也有涉嫌涉入共諜案憲兵抓共諜結果共諜在憲兵裡面所以我想請問部長在這個部分那國防部要如何的防範要如何防止抓共諜的單位裡面卻一而再再而三的發生像這樣子涉入共諜的情勢\n\n06:38.134 --> 06:54.550\n我想我們對這個當然變成共諜,這感到痛心但是我還是跟委員報告,這個案子其實就是官兵主動檢舉所以我們要加強這樣子的一個保防教育那也看到我們有87.5的案子\n\n06:56.332 --> 07:24.467\n都是由官兵檢舉產生的所以可見保防教育的重要性那另外剛剛也提到了人員考核的管制也是相當重要所以我們剛剛也提到了我們不但要做保防教育的一個宣導一直到這個最基層的官兵然後當然人員的涉密的能夠他要承辦涉密這個時候呢我們要對於他派任這些機敏族或涉密的這個部分呢\n\n07:24.967 --> 07:40.159\n要從事這個安全的查核這個部分也是重要的所以我想我們一方面要加強保防教育然後一方面要加強人員的查核這個部分是我們應該要努力精進的\n\n07:40.839 --> 08:05.060\n好那我希望就說在國軍裡面其實不管是退役或者是現役其實我們都會希望這些相關的涉入共諜案能夠減少而且最好就是從此以後就不要再聽到好不好謝謝是我也希望我們精進的之後呢能夠不要讓這樣的事情發生最主要就是要具有敵我的意識好謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.189,"text":"國防部長"},{"start":24.515,"end":47.842,"text":"部長 其實我主要是要問國安會吳釗燮秘書長的案子但是因為您也做過國安會的秘書長我想請問一下 因為這一次爆發的是國安會秘書長吳釗燮他有一個跟著他十多年的資深助理 涉入了共諜案"},{"start":48.602,"end":67.792,"text":"那他這邊有一個比較嚴重的問題就是呢在星期一我們在做質詢的時候就在隔壁調查局說這位何仁傑他只有在任用的時候呢就是進入國安會的時候曾經做過一次忠誠查核"},{"start":69.213,"end":96.374,"text":"那麼之後呢他就再也沒有做過任何的忠誠查核或者其他的特殊查核那我後來在禮拜一的時候我也請教外交部的部長因為他進入國安會他第一次是先進入國安會然後他再跟著進外交部根據我們公務人員服務法裡面明文規定我們這些人員當你出任"},{"start":97.835,"end":113.888,"text":"調任在任的時候都需要再做查核而且如果你是會接觸到機敏的資料國防有個重大的國安資料的時候他還要再做特殊查核"},{"start":114.528,"end":140.462,"text":"好所以呢事實上已經證明吳釗燮秘書長他有違法之遇他沒有讓跟著他十多年的助理然後依循這個我們公務人員服務法相關的規定好所以這邊我就請教部長您做過國安會秘書長然後現在也做國防部部長這都是重大的國安的機構我想請問您"},{"start":142.023,"end":157.313,"text":"跟著你的資深的助理也好如果你也是從國安會到國防部那麼在你身邊的人有沒有依照公務人員服務法來做相關的查核"},{"start":158.395,"end":181.998,"text":"跟委員報告,您剛剛提到的,因為剛剛外交部次長也提過了在2016的時候,核心進入國安會的時候,就有做過特殊查核所以國安會進來的部分,如果會相關的這些機要的運用,因為國安會不是一個機敏單位嗎?"},{"start":183.039,"end":201.809,"text":"那都會做相關的特殊查核那國防部的部分我想我們我現在是國防部在國防部服務所以有關國防部的這一個揭秘資格的一些相關的作為我剛剛在前面有好幾位委員我都已經答詢過了我們現在有一個"},{"start":203.17,"end":217.65,"text":"國軍涉密人員安全調查作業的規定在今年2月定班那都以涉密的這個等級就是包括他是能夠接觸密、機密、極機密跟絕對機密然後來做不同深度跟廣度的查核"},{"start":217.99,"end":226.837,"text":"那我請問部長根據你自己做過國安會秘書長也做國防部部長以現在我們剛才講的狀況您覺得吳釗燮秘書長應不應該停職來接受調查"},{"start":233.454,"end":259.634,"text":"我想委員的問題我沒有辦法加以評論那因為現在就我的理解因為剛剛外交部也都有回答過其他的一些問題現在主要就是說行政院要會同考生有訂定一個涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員的特殊查核辦法這個特查的這個辦法裡面它會有一個各機關要辦理特查職務的一個一覽表"},{"start":260.535,"end":276.054,"text":"那就這個部分我想院裡面正在檢討這個你們都是辦法我剛剛講的是公務人員服務法這個還不是辦法不是你們的這些行政命令如果基本上"},{"start":278.136,"end":303.067,"text":"連公務人員服務法通相關的規定都違反了那請問一下吳釗燮秘書長是不是應該停職接受調查因為他的這些機要而且或者他任用的一等資義竟然沒有依法來接受相關的不要說特殊調查依法應該接受的這個中程調查他都沒有接受難道不應該停職調查嗎"},{"start":304.551,"end":314.12,"text":"因為剛剛外交部也回答了,那個何先生按照這個特查的辦法,因為他好像不具有公務員的身份,然後是屬於聘僱人員"},{"start":315.663,"end":340.412,"text":"一般的 所以只是進行一般的查核 沒有辦法進行所謂特殊查核但好像我 因為我只是今天一起同來備詢委員來問我的話似乎應該問外交部 因為他們有做過一般的查核我了解 我了解 因為我剛剛就講嘛 真正應該在在上面備詢的人 畏罪潛逃 心虛不敢來那另外請教一下 我們在講一些 我們在講一些就是說"},{"start":342.913,"end":345.654,"text":"一些涉嫌就是涉入共諜案因為確實我們在國軍裡面也有很多的單位就出現了這些相關的問題那比如說最近包含就是在我們的士林憲兵隊出現五星旗的飄揚或者是憲兵裡面也有士官涉入了共諜案而且有不法獲利"},{"start":368.32,"end":396.777,"text":"然後再加上我們的私通電軍以及憲兵的士官兵也有涉嫌涉入共諜案憲兵抓共諜結果共諜在憲兵裡面所以我想請問部長在這個部分那國防部要如何的防範要如何防止抓共諜的單位裡面卻一而再再而三的發生像這樣子涉入共諜的情勢"},{"start":398.134,"end":414.55,"text":"我想我們對這個當然變成共諜,這感到痛心但是我還是跟委員報告,這個案子其實就是官兵主動檢舉所以我們要加強這樣子的一個保防教育那也看到我們有87.5的案子"},{"start":416.332,"end":444.467,"text":"都是由官兵檢舉產生的所以可見保防教育的重要性那另外剛剛也提到了人員考核的管制也是相當重要所以我們剛剛也提到了我們不但要做保防教育的一個宣導一直到這個最基層的官兵然後當然人員的涉密的能夠他要承辦涉密這個時候呢我們要對於他派任這些機敏族或涉密的這個部分呢"},{"start":444.967,"end":460.159,"text":"要從事這個安全的查核這個部分也是重要的所以我想我們一方面要加強保防教育然後一方面要加強人員的查核這個部分是我們應該要努力精進的"},{"start":460.839,"end":485.06,"text":"好 那我希望就說在國軍裡面其實不管是退役或者是現役其實我們都會希望這些相關的涉入共諜案能夠減少而且最好就是從此以後就不要再聽到好不好 謝謝是 我也希望我們精進的之後呢能夠不要讓這樣的事情發生最主要就是要具有敵我的意識好 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":694,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時7分）謝謝主席，本席先詢問一下，國安會今天有人來備詢嗎？"],["主席：沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：國安會都沒有人來啊？這是怎麼樣？是畏罪潛逃了嗎？還是怎麼樣？請國防部部長。"],["顧部長立雄：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，其實本席主要是要問國安會吳釗燮秘書長的案子，但是因為您也做過國安會的秘書長，請問一下，因為這次爆發的案子，是跟了國安會秘書長吳釗燮十多年的資深助理涉入共諜案，這邊有一個比較嚴重的問題。星期一我們質詢的時候，就在隔壁，調查局說何仁傑只有在任用的時候，也就是進入國安會的時候，曾經做過一次忠誠查核，之後再也沒有做過任何忠誠查核或者其他特殊查核。","一樣是在禮拜一的時候，本席也請教過外交部部長，因為他是先進入國安會，然後再跟著進外交部。根據公務員服務法的明文規定，這些人員出任、調任、再任的時候都需要再做查核，而且如果你會接觸到機敏資料、重大國安資料，他還要再做特殊查核。所以事實已經證明吳釗燮秘書長有違法之虞，因為他沒有讓跟著他十多年的助理依循公務員服務法的相關規定。","所以本席要請教部長，您做過國安會秘書長，現在擔任國防部部長，這都是重要的國安機構，請問您，跟著你的資深助理也好，因為你也是從國安會到國防部，你身邊的人有沒有依照公務員服務法做相關查核？"],["顧部長立雄：您剛剛提到的，剛剛外交部次長也提過，2016年何先生進入國安會的時候就有做過特殊查核。國安相關的機要任用，因為國安會是一個機敏單位，所以都會做相關的特殊查核。國防部的部分，因為我現在是在國防部服務，所以有關國防部接密資格的相關作為，剛剛前面有好幾位委員質詢過，我都已經答復過，我們現在有一個國軍涉密人員安全調查作業規定，今年2月訂頒，以涉密的等級，包括他能夠接觸密、機密、極機密和絕對機密，做不同深度和廣度的查核。"],["王委員鴻薇：請問部長，你做過國安會秘書長，現在是國防部部長，以我們剛才說的狀況，您覺得吳釗燮秘書長應不應該停職接受調查？"],["顧部長立雄：委員的問題，我沒有辦法加以評論。現在就我的理解，因為剛剛外交部也有回答過其他委員的問題，現在主要就是行政院會同考試院有訂定一個涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員的特殊查核辦法，這個特查辦法裡面，有各機關要辦理特查職務一覽表，就這個部分，行政院正在檢討。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，你沒有回答本席的問題。你剛才說的這些都是辦法，但本席剛剛說的是公務員服務法，這不是辦法，也不是你們的行政命令。如果連公務員服務法的相關規定都違反了，請問一下，吳釗燮秘書長是不是應該停職接受調查？因為他的這些機要，或者他任用的一等諮議，竟然沒有依法接受相關查核，不要說特殊調查，連依法應該接受的忠誠調查，他都沒有做，難道不應該停職調查嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛外交部也回答了，按照這個特查辦法，因為何先生好像不具有公務員的身分，是屬於聘僱人員，也就是一般人員，所以只是進行一般查核，沒有辦法進行所謂的特殊查核。因為我今天只是一起來備詢，委員問我的問題似乎和外交部比較相關，他們有做一般的查核。"],["王委員鴻薇：本席了解。本席剛剛也有說過，真正應該站在上面備詢的人畏罪潛逃，心虛不敢來。另外請教一下，我們在說一些……"],["顧部長立雄：委員，這樣的用語可能不太恰當。"],["王委員鴻薇：關於涉入共諜案的問題，因為在國軍裡面，確實也有很多單位出現相關問題，比如最近士林憲兵隊出現五星旗飄揚，或者是憲兵也有士官涉入共諜案，而且有不法獲利，再加上資通電軍以及憲兵的士官兵也有涉嫌涉入共諜案，原本是憲兵抓共諜，結果共諜卻出現在憲兵裡面。所以本席想請問部長，針對這個部分，國防部要如何防範？如何防止抓共諜的單位，卻一而再、再而三發生涉入共諜案的情事？"],["顧部長立雄：我們對部分官兵變成共諜感到痛心，但我還是要向委員報告，這個案子其實就是官兵主動檢舉，所以我們要加強這樣的保防教育，因為近87.5%的案子都是由官兵檢舉的，可見保防教育的重要性。另外，剛剛也提到人員的考核管制相當重要，所以我們不但要做保防教育的宣導，這部分要深達最基層的官兵，如果人員承辦涉密業務，我們要在派他出任這些機敏職務或針對涉密的部分從事安全查核，這個部分也是重要的。所以我們一方面要加強保防教育，一方面也要加強人員的查核，這個部分是我們應該要努力精進的。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。本席希望在國軍裡面，不管是退役或是現役，涉入共諜案的情事能夠減少，最好是從此以後不要再聽到。好不好？謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：是。我也希望我們精進之後，能夠不要讓這樣的事情發生，最主要就是要具有敵我意識，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員上臺質詢。","接下來由郭國文委員上臺質詢。郭國文委員、郭國文委員，郭國文委員不在。","接下來由蔡易餘委員上臺質詢。蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員，蔡易餘委員不在。","接下來由高金素梅委員上臺質詢。高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在。","接下來由吳思瑤委員上臺質詢。吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤委員，吳思瑤委員不在。","接下來由邱志偉委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-10","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","林憶君","林岱樺"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、外交部部長、國家安全局局長、總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長報告「近\n期國軍、外交部、總統府、國安會遭共諜滲透，其影響國安層面、範圍及未來人員考核管制之具\n體作法」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00005"}}}