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294.843, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 294.843, \"end\": 295.023, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 295.023, \"end\": 295.143, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 295.143, \"end\": 295.603, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 295.603, \"end\": 295.783, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 295.783, \"end\": 295.944, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 295.944, \"end\": 296.084, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 296.084, \"end\": 296.344, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 296.344, \"end\": 296.524, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 296.524, \"end\": 296.824, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 296.824, \"end\": 296.944, \"score\": 0.566}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 296.944, \"end\": 297.084, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 297.084, \"end\": 297.104, \"score\": 0.627}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 297.104, \"end\": 297.264, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 297.264, \"end\": 297.344, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 297.344, \"end\": 297.364, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 297.364, \"end\": 297.384, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 297.384, \"end\": 297.404, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 300.226, \"end\": 303.369, \"text\": \"那國安局報告的時候是放在官網上的共諜案滲透手法分析報告然後我比對了一下這兩份報告標記化綠色的部分竟然都是一模一樣的所以當然就是只有說有一個就是第五身份掩護接觸政府人員當然是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 300.226, \"end\": 300.486, \"score\": 0.561}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 300.486, \"end\": 300.606, \"score\": 0.559}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 300.606, \"end\": 300.626, \"score\": 0.115}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 300.626, \"end\": 300.687, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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0.889}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"呈\", \"start\": 365.572, \"end\": 365.592, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"現\"}]}, {\"start\": 367.293, \"end\": 383.762, \"text\": \"好因為現在陸續發生太多的共諜事件一定會有很多新的情況那是不是說叫我們只要上網去看就這樣一字不漏的這樣都看到之前的我想說現在新的情況是真的很多我想說以後在這報告上面可能是還是要麻煩還是要認真一點用符合議題排定的內容來再做一個比較好的報告這樣可以做得到嗎好謝謝指導好謝謝那接下來我請國防部顧部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 367.293, \"end\": 367.433, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 367.433, \"end\": 367.653, \"score\": 0.639}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 367.653, \"end\": 368.334, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 368.334, \"end\": 368.474, \"score\": 0.585}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 368.474, \"end\": 368.674, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 368.674, \"end\": 368.814, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.814, \"end\": 368.954, \"score\": 0.634}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 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0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 739.398, \"end\": 740.158, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 740.158, \"end\": 741.159, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 741.159, \"end\": 741.359, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 741.359, \"end\": 741.539, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 741.539, \"end\": 741.76, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"督\", \"start\": 741.76, \"end\": 741.96, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 741.96, \"end\": 742.44, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 742.44, \"end\": 742.64, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 742.64, \"end\": 742.82, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 742.82, \"end\": 742.84, \"score\": 0.813}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,330 --> 00:00:07,582\n有請外交部次長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:09,522 --> 00:00:29,767\n次長好因為外交部共諜案的問題相信今天大家其實都是問一樣的問題所以本席還是要跟次長再確認一次次長你今天在這邊有信心明確的跟本席還有本委員會的全體委員保證確定身邊都沒有共諜也保證也沒有整個都是沒有共諜的嗎\n\n3\n00:00:34,141 --> 00:00:52,654\n那麼以中共的這個積極的作為那麼我們只能夠說我們會持續的精進我們的對應的方法第二個我們會加強我們的相關的同仁他的一個這個相關的保防意識那麼說要我保證說完全沒有一個\n\n4\n00:00:54,455 --> 00:01:20,018\n這個任何的一個共諜我想這個在現在的一個狀況大概不是特別實際的一個做法但是我們的假設是說我們的同仁都是盡忠職守那麼都是忠於國家的我想這個假設我們是用這樣的一個假設來進行但是我們的相關的調查的工作相關的保防的措施相關的陣風的這個做法我們會持續的精進那麼能夠符合這個委員的要求\n\n5\n00:01:20,478 --> 00:01:35,673\n好那萬一發生了你會如何面對和處理呢還是有請次長回去你可不可以特別清查內部了解外交部裡面是不是還有沒有人該做安全查核卻沒有做的那請次長務必趕快把外交部發生共諜的這個廓網把它補起來可以嗎\n\n6\n00:01:40,758 --> 00:02:01,212\n當然,我們這次的事情聲表遺憾,也感覺到我們有必要再更加的加強內部的作為所以我們也會跟行政院、會同考試院共同制定的涉及國家安全或重大利益公共人員的特殊查核辦法\n\n7\n00:02:02,052 --> 00:02:06,693\n希望能夠透過相關辦法的精進擴大我們的查核的範圍增進我們的查核的能量那能夠去有效的防堵未來的相關事件繼續發生好那因為本席是替你們的部長擔心啦不要到時候跟前部長吳釗燮一樣木蘭回首的時候都發現共諜就在身邊畢竟兩岸啊現在的局勢很緊張中共在國際上對台灣又不斷的打壓\n\n8\n00:02:29,778 --> 00:02:35,059\n所以台灣整個的處境其實外交處境是非常的嚴峻的然後相信你知道這個社界這部李安導演所演的這個諜戰情色懸疑的電影吧應該有聽過嘛相信我們外交人員就好像是無煙消戰場上面的戰士都是一樣的經常單獨在國外面對嚴峻的外交挑戰不但背負莫大的國家的壓力重點很多外交人員都是獨自一個人赴任所以其實跟家人都是分開的\n\n9\n00:02:59,864 --> 00:03:13,649\n所以要特別注意因為是不是會被對岸吸收更多這種有可能的因素所以總之本席還是在這邊要特別的提醒次長也同時要提醒今天在座的各位首長畢竟你們的身份比較特殊都是在維護國家安全的重要的位置上面所以務必要隨時提高警戒小心共諜就在身邊可以嗎\n\n10\n00:03:23,473 --> 00:03:39,419\n是當然那麼不過也跟委員報告我相信前後任的部長大概都有一樣的一個心態那麼我們絕對是盡忠職守忠於國家那麼發生這樣的事情我想在制度上面我們都需要檢討精進那麼他們不是所願那麼自己再帶進這樣的一個狀況進來這個地方這個請委員能夠了解那麼在相關的這個作為方面\n\n11\n00:03:52,284 --> 00:04:18,778\n包括我們外交的這個副任那麼提供注意隨時注意他的身心的狀況隨時注意他的這個交友的狀況這是外交部持續在做的一個努力但是一定這個有制度有辦法一定還是有破網那麼我們會持續的精進同時不斷的透過我們的內部的教育對於副任人員的持續的這個教育那這是我們教育我們這個外交部持續在進行的工作\n\n12\n00:04:19,209 --> 00:04:23,532\n好謝謝那我下一個有請國安局副局長\n\n13\n00:04:33,530 --> 00:04:57,404\n副局長今天本席有認真看你們的書面報告相信副局長你對今天的書面報告內容應該是也是有看過了嘛是不是但是副局長看過報告之後你有沒有一種熟悉的感覺就是你知道為什麼本席會這樣說呢因為今天看到書面報告的時候神奇的事情就來了局長你看一下這邊的一面的資料的時候是今天國安局的報告另外一份的話是今年1月12號國安局的報告\n\n14\n00:05:00,226 --> 00:05:03,369\n那國安局報告的時候是放在官網上的共諜案滲透手法分析報告然後我比對了一下這兩份報告標記化綠色的部分竟然都是一模一樣的所以當然就是只有說有一個就是第五身份掩護接觸政府人員當然是\n\n15\n00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:38,914\n這個就是中共用掩護身份接觸到我們政府官員還有民意代表這是寫得很誠實啦就是最近都被抓到的共諜嘛那副局長我本席想要了解一下就是國安局同仁都是為了兩岸緊張的諜報的工作大家都很用心是值得嘉獎的但是國安局的報告不是一直都是寫得不錯嗎但是今天國安局竟然會淪落到抄襲這樣還發揮了超能力還開始抄襲之前的報告那副局長今天這樣的業務和報告的撰寫\n\n16\n00:05:49,881 --> 00:06:05,592\n我想我們今天的這個報告是我們這個近幾年來的一個中共的一個滲透又拉的一個手法來做一個報告當然它是一個累積的還有新的手法那如果新的手法新的手段當然我們會再繼續呈現\n\n17\n00:06:07,293 --> 00:06:23,762\n好因為現在陸續發生太多的共諜事件一定會有很多新的情況那是不是說叫我們只要上網去看就這樣一字不漏的這樣都看到之前的我想說現在新的情況是真的很多我想說以後在這報告上面可能是還是要麻煩還是要認真一點用符合議題排定的內容來再做一個比較好的報告這樣可以做得到嗎好謝謝指導好謝謝那接下來我請國防部顧部長\n\n18\n00:06:44,347 --> 00:07:08,020\n是林委員部長好剛才詢問國安局的問題但是我還是一樣請教一下部長國防部包含全部所有的單位目前有沒有正在偵辦當中但還沒有被媒體爆出來的共諜案有還是沒有我想有關司法調查中的個案我想我們不宜在這裡做任何的披露\n\n19\n00:07:09,993 --> 00:07:27,806\n如果是說像部長說的如果偵查不公開的話那具體內容本席這邊可能就不多問了但是說未來如果這幾個案子有結果國防部能不能夠主動的提交書面的說明給本委員會書面一些報告呢\n\n20\n00:07:29,093 --> 00:07:56,346\n您是說個案嗎?對,如果幾個案子有結果的話因為剛才部長說嘛現在偵查不公開嘛後面有結果的話那是不是我們有資格權利就是國安部能不能主動提交這些書面說明呢?給本委員會呢?我想因為就相關的這些報告的這個內容如果在在\n\n21\n00:07:58,871 --> 00:08:10,061\n不機敏的這個前提之下,我想應該可以提供但是如果是涉及機敏的不公開的話,這可能我們要考量\n\n22\n00:08:11,192 --> 00:08:20,578\n好本期還是希望都不要有啦當然也是希望說可以保持不要再有共諜的事件主席再給我一點時間謝謝那我再請教部長一下就是說相信全台民眾現在都很關心我們的潛艦國造的事情因為按照期程規劃應該是在這個月就要開始進行了海策但是那因為之前審查預算的時候朝野各黨團\n\n23\n00:08:36,129 --> 00:08:42,295\n都有提案要求國防部要等海昆號通過海測之後才能動用114年的後續件的預算等到海測進度確定不會影響之後才會同意讓這整個預算解凍但是現在已經是月底了那請問開始海測了沒還是有沒有稍微延後呢還沒有開始\n\n24\n00:08:59,648 --> 00:09:21,226\n所以畢竟我們這是第一次造潛艦那測試過程中當然會有一些非預期的缺失要改正那部長我想請問一下目前還有哪些缺失需要改正的呢委員我想這個部分也不適宜在這裡做如果私下委員想要了解我們再跟委員做一個機敏的專報\n\n25\n00:09:22,315 --> 00:09:25,978\n因為我想這個應該不是機敏吧因為這個說這些要改正的問題應該是大家說應該是都可以知道的吧因為現在到底進度在哪裡因為現在的問題真的是或許現在都是共諜案已經把這一個潛艦的國造的案子已經蓋過去了但是我想說\n\n26\n00:09:41,351 --> 00:09:44,052\n這個東西我覺得國防部應該是還是有責任吧要向大家報告吧還有後續還有一個2840億這一筆預算其實非常非常的大先前就有傳出國防部想要把潛艦這個預算從公務預算移到特別預算新聞來源當然是國安人士啦我想這個記者也不敢隨便憑空捏造那我想要請問部長\n\n27\n00:10:04,676 --> 00:10:10,219\n你們目前研議的結果是真的打算這樣做嗎還是要看潛艦的測試進度呢是不是會排除這樣的可能性還是真的有這樣的可能性呢\n\n28\n00:10:18,484 --> 00:10:42,737\n您是說排入今年的特別預算嗎不是就是這種興建案從公務預算想要移到特別預算因為這種過去都是有這樣的案例無論是技術難度還是預算的金額還是執行的期程其實以前都有這樣的案例而且以前都是比這一次前建國造的預算額度技術難度都是更高的所以\n\n29\n00:10:43,337 --> 00:11:08,213\n因為現在原型艦的部分在渤港測試的這個缺失的改善還沒有全數的完成那我們等到這個渤港測試全數完成海測通過之後那我們才比較有把握來進行下一階段那就這個部分我們在考量這個時候再考量那會從購物預算把這個整個移到特別預算嗎\n\n30\n00:11:09,402 --> 00:11:30,453\n目前因為海撤還沒有開始進行那海撤的結果還不知道所以我們現在沒有辦法說要把它擺入到特別預算那請問什麼時候要進行海撤呢當初部長也是說從四月份嘛對不對當初大家都是知道的現在到四月了已經四月底了到現在還沒有海撤進度會不會太延後了吧\n\n31\n00:11:35,890 --> 00:12:04,865\n我們還是以安全為前提所以我們還是要先確認所有相關的這個博港測試的這一些測試都能夠擋到安全無疑的情況之下我們才會准他們進行海測本席最後還是提醒人民的納稅錢是民脂民膏請部長務必要遵守財政紀律不要把人民的血汗錢當作私房錢還有小金庫再獨享浪費公帑可以嗎\n\n32\n00:12:05,707 --> 00:12:22,840\n我們非常的謹慎而且經營業在看待我們這個原型建的建造這個是非常重要的一件事情所以我們每個禮拜都在督管這件事情\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n330\t7582\t有請外交部次長委員好\n9522\t29767\t次長好因為外交部共諜案的問題相信今天大家其實都是問一樣的問題所以本席還是要跟次長再確認一次次長你今天在這邊有信心明確的跟本席還有本委員會的全體委員保證確定身邊都沒有共諜也保證也沒有整個都是沒有共諜的嗎\n34141\t52654\t那麼以中共的這個積極的作為那麼我們只能夠說我們會持續的精進我們的對應的方法第二個我們會加強我們的相關的同仁他的一個這個相關的保防意識那麼說要我保證說完全沒有一個\n54455\t80018\t這個任何的一個共諜我想這個在現在的一個狀況大概不是特別實際的一個做法但是我們的假設是說我們的同仁都是盡忠職守那麼都是忠於國家的我想這個假設我們是用這樣的一個假設來進行但是我們的相關的調查的工作相關的保防的措施相關的陣風的這個做法我們會持續的精進那麼能夠符合這個委員的要求\n80478\t95673\t好 那萬一發生了 你會如何面對和處理呢 還是有請次長回去 你可不可以特別清查內部 了解外交部裡面是不是還有沒有人該做安全查核 卻沒有做的那請次長務必趕快把外交部發生共諜的這個廓網把它補起來 可以嗎\n100758\t121212\t當然,我們這次的事情聲表遺憾,也感覺到我們有必要再更加的加強內部的作為所以我們也會跟行政院、會同考試院共同制定的涉及國家安全或重大利益公共人員的特殊查核辦法\n122052\t126693\t希望能夠透過相關辦法的精進擴大我們的查核的範圍增進我們的查核的能量那能夠去有效的防堵未來的相關事件繼續發生好那因為本席是替你們的部長擔心啦不要到時候跟前部長吳釗燮一樣木蘭回首的時候都發現共諜就在身邊畢竟兩岸啊現在的局勢很緊張中共在國際上對台灣又不斷的打壓\n149778\t155059\t所以台灣整個的處境其實外交處境是非常的嚴峻的然後相信你知道這個社界這部李安導演所演的這個諜戰情色懸疑的電影吧應該有聽過嘛相信我們外交人員就好像是無煙消戰場上面的戰士都是一樣的經常單獨在國外面對嚴峻的外交挑戰不但背負莫大的國家的壓力重點很多外交人員都是獨自一個人赴任所以其實跟家人都是分開的\n179864\t193649\t所以要特別注意因為是不是會被對岸吸收更多這種有可能的因素所以總之本席還是在這邊要特別的提醒次長也同時要提醒今天在座的各位首長畢竟你們的身份比較特殊都是在維護國家安全的重要的位置上面所以務必要隨時提高警戒小心共諜就在身邊可以嗎\n203473\t219419\t是當然 那麼不過也跟委員報告我相信前後任的部長大概都有一樣的一個心態那麼我們絕對是盡忠職守忠於國家那麼發生這樣的事情我想在制度上面我們都需要檢討精進那麼他們不是所願那麼自己再帶進這樣的一個狀況進來這個地方這個請委員能夠了解那麼在相關的這個作為方面\n232284\t258778\t包括我們外交的這個副任那麼提供注意隨時注意他的身心的狀況隨時注意他的這個交友的狀況這是外交部持續在做的一個努力但是一定這個有制度有辦法一定還是有破網那麼我們會持續的精進同時不斷的透過我們的內部的教育對於副任人員的持續的這個教育那這是我們教育我們這個外交部持續在進行的工作\n259209\t263532\t好 謝謝那我下一個有請國安局副局長\n273530\t297404\t副局長今天本席有認真看你們的書面報告相信副局長你對今天的書面報告內容應該是也是有看過了嘛是不是但是副局長看過報告之後你有沒有一種熟悉的感覺就是你知道為什麼本席會這樣說呢因為今天看到書面報告的時候神奇的事情就來了局長你看一下這邊的一面的資料的時候是今天國安局的報告另外一份的話是今年1月12號國安局的報告\n300226\t303369\t那國安局報告的時候是放在官網上的共諜案滲透手法分析報告然後我比對了一下這兩份報告標記化綠色的部分竟然都是一模一樣的所以當然就是只有說有一個就是第五身份掩護接觸政府人員當然是\n318540\t338914\t這個就是中共用掩護身份接觸到我們政府官員還有民意代表這是寫得很誠實啦就是最近都被抓到的共諜嘛那副局長我本席想要了解一下就是國安局同仁都是為了兩岸緊張的諜報的工作大家都很用心是值得嘉獎的但是國安局的報告不是一直都是寫得不錯嗎但是今天國安局竟然會淪落到抄襲這樣還發揮了超能力還開始抄襲之前的報告那副局長今天這樣的業務和報告的撰寫\n349881\t365592\t我想我們今天的這個報告是我們這個近幾年來的一個中共的一個滲透又拉的一個手法來做一個報告當然它是一個累積的還有新的手法那如果新的手法新的手段當然我們會再繼續呈現\n367293\t383762\t好因為現在陸續發生太多的共諜事件一定會有很多新的情況那是不是說叫我們只要上網去看就這樣一字不漏的這樣都看到之前的我想說現在新的情況是真的很多我想說以後在這報告上面可能是還是要麻煩還是要認真一點用符合議題排定的內容來再做一個比較好的報告這樣可以做得到嗎好謝謝指導好謝謝那接下來我請國防部顧部長\n404347\t428020\t是 林委員部長好 剛才詢問國安局的問題 但是我還是一樣請教一下部長國防部包含全部所有的單位 目前有沒有正在偵辦當中但還沒有被媒體爆出來的共諜案 有還是沒有我想有關司法調查中的個案 我想我們不宜在這裡做任何的披露\n429993\t447806\t如果是說像部長說的如果偵查不公開的話那具體內容本席這邊可能就不多問了但是說未來如果這幾個案子有結果國防部能不能夠主動的提交書面的說明給本委員會書面一些報告呢\n449093\t476346\t您是說個案嗎?對,如果幾個案子有結果的話因為剛才部長說嘛現在偵查不公開嘛後面有結果的話那是不是我們有資格權利就是國安部能不能主動提交這些書面說明呢?給本委員會呢?我想因為就相關的這些報告的這個內容如果在在\n478871\t490061\t不機敏的這個前提之下,我想應該可以提供但是如果是涉及機敏的不公開的話,這可能我們要考量\n491192\t500578\t好 本期還是希望都不要有啦當然也是希望說可以保持不要再有共諜的事件主席再給我一點時間謝謝那我再請教部長一下就是說相信全台民眾現在都很關心我們的潛艦國造的事情因為按照期程規劃應該是在這個月就要開始進行了海策但是那因為之前審查預算的時候朝野各黨團\n516129\t522295\t都有提案要求國防部要等海昆號通過海測之後才能動用114年的後續件的預算等到海測進度確定不會影響之後才會同意讓這整個預算解凍但是現在已經是月底了那請問開始海測了沒還是有沒有稍微延後呢還沒有開始\n539648\t561226\t所以畢竟我們這是第一次造潛艦那測試過程中當然會有一些非預期的缺失要改正那部長我想請問一下目前還有哪些缺失需要改正的呢委員我想這個部分也不適宜在這裡做如果私下委員想要了解我們再跟委員做一個機敏的專報\n562315\t565978\t因為我想這個應該不是機敏吧因為這個說這些要改正的問題應該是大家說應該是都可以知道的吧因為現在到底進度在哪裡因為現在的問題真的是或許現在都是共諜案已經把這一個潛艦的國造的案子已經蓋過去了但是我想說\n581351\t584052\t這個東西我覺得國防部應該是還是有責任吧要向大家報告吧還有後續還有一個2840億這一筆預算其實非常非常的大先前就有傳出國防部想要把潛艦這個預算從公務預算移到特別預算新聞來源當然是國安人士啦我想這個記者也不敢隨便憑空捏造那我想要請問部長\n604676\t610219\t你們目前研議的結果是真的打算這樣做嗎還是要看潛艦的測試進度呢是不是會排除這樣的可能性還是真的有這樣的可能性呢\n618484\t642737\t您是說排入今年的特別預算嗎不是就是這種興建案從公務預算想要移到特別預算因為這種過去都是有這樣的案例無論是技術難度還是預算的金額還是執行的期程其實以前都有這樣的案例而且以前都是比這一次前建國造的預算額度技術難度都是更高的所以\n643337\t668213\t因為現在原型艦的部分在渤港測試的這個缺失的改善還沒有全數的完成那我們等到這個渤港測試全數完成海測通過之後那我們才比較有把握來進行下一階段那就這個部分我們在考量這個時候再考量那會從購物預算把這個整個移到特別預算嗎\n669402\t690453\t目前因為海撤還沒有開始進行那海撤的結果還不知道所以我們現在沒有辦法說要把它擺入到特別預算那請問什麼時候要進行海撤呢當初部長也是說從四月份嘛對不對當初大家都是知道的現在到四月了已經四月底了到現在還沒有海撤進度會不會太延後了吧\n695890\t724865\t我們還是以安全為前提所以我們還是要先確認所有相關的這個博港測試的這一些測試都能夠擋到安全無疑的情況之下我們才會准他們進行海測本席最後還是提醒人民的納稅錢是民脂民膏請部長務必要遵守財政紀律不要把人民的血汗錢當作私房錢還有小金庫再獨享浪費公帑可以嗎\n725707\t742840\t我們非常的謹慎而且經營業在看待我們這個原型建的建造這個是非常重要的一件事情所以我們每個禮拜都在督管這件事情\n","txt":"有請外交部次長委員好\n次長好因為外交部共諜案的問題相信今天大家其實都是問一樣的問題所以本席還是要跟次長再確認一次次長你今天在這邊有信心明確的跟本席還有本委員會的全體委員保證確定身邊都沒有共諜也保證也沒有整個都是沒有共諜的嗎\n那麼以中共的這個積極的作為那麼我們只能夠說我們會持續的精進我們的對應的方法第二個我們會加強我們的相關的同仁他的一個這個相關的保防意識那麼說要我保證說完全沒有一個\n這個任何的一個共諜我想這個在現在的一個狀況大概不是特別實際的一個做法但是我們的假設是說我們的同仁都是盡忠職守那麼都是忠於國家的我想這個假設我們是用這樣的一個假設來進行但是我們的相關的調查的工作相關的保防的措施相關的陣風的這個做法我們會持續的精進那麼能夠符合這個委員的要求\n好 那萬一發生了 你會如何面對和處理呢 還是有請次長回去 你可不可以特別清查內部 了解外交部裡面是不是還有沒有人該做安全查核 卻沒有做的那請次長務必趕快把外交部發生共諜的這個廓網把它補起來 可以嗎\n當然,我們這次的事情聲表遺憾,也感覺到我們有必要再更加的加強內部的作為所以我們也會跟行政院、會同考試院共同制定的涉及國家安全或重大利益公共人員的特殊查核辦法\n希望能夠透過相關辦法的精進擴大我們的查核的範圍增進我們的查核的能量那能夠去有效的防堵未來的相關事件繼續發生好那因為本席是替你們的部長擔心啦不要到時候跟前部長吳釗燮一樣木蘭回首的時候都發現共諜就在身邊畢竟兩岸啊現在的局勢很緊張中共在國際上對台灣又不斷的打壓\n所以台灣整個的處境其實外交處境是非常的嚴峻的然後相信你知道這個社界這部李安導演所演的這個諜戰情色懸疑的電影吧應該有聽過嘛相信我們外交人員就好像是無煙消戰場上面的戰士都是一樣的經常單獨在國外面對嚴峻的外交挑戰不但背負莫大的國家的壓力重點很多外交人員都是獨自一個人赴任所以其實跟家人都是分開的\n所以要特別注意因為是不是會被對岸吸收更多這種有可能的因素所以總之本席還是在這邊要特別的提醒次長也同時要提醒今天在座的各位首長畢竟你們的身份比較特殊都是在維護國家安全的重要的位置上面所以務必要隨時提高警戒小心共諜就在身邊可以嗎\n是當然 那麼不過也跟委員報告我相信前後任的部長大概都有一樣的一個心態那麼我們絕對是盡忠職守忠於國家那麼發生這樣的事情我想在制度上面我們都需要檢討精進那麼他們不是所願那麼自己再帶進這樣的一個狀況進來這個地方這個請委員能夠了解那麼在相關的這個作為方面\n包括我們外交的這個副任那麼提供注意隨時注意他的身心的狀況隨時注意他的這個交友的狀況這是外交部持續在做的一個努力但是一定這個有制度有辦法一定還是有破網那麼我們會持續的精進同時不斷的透過我們的內部的教育對於副任人員的持續的這個教育那這是我們教育我們這個外交部持續在進行的工作\n好 謝謝那我下一個有請國安局副局長\n副局長今天本席有認真看你們的書面報告相信副局長你對今天的書面報告內容應該是也是有看過了嘛是不是但是副局長看過報告之後你有沒有一種熟悉的感覺就是你知道為什麼本席會這樣說呢因為今天看到書面報告的時候神奇的事情就來了局長你看一下這邊的一面的資料的時候是今天國安局的報告另外一份的話是今年1月12號國安局的報告\n那國安局報告的時候是放在官網上的共諜案滲透手法分析報告然後我比對了一下這兩份報告標記化綠色的部分竟然都是一模一樣的所以當然就是只有說有一個就是第五身份掩護接觸政府人員當然是\n這個就是中共用掩護身份接觸到我們政府官員還有民意代表這是寫得很誠實啦就是最近都被抓到的共諜嘛那副局長我本席想要了解一下就是國安局同仁都是為了兩岸緊張的諜報的工作大家都很用心是值得嘉獎的但是國安局的報告不是一直都是寫得不錯嗎但是今天國安局竟然會淪落到抄襲這樣還發揮了超能力還開始抄襲之前的報告那副局長今天這樣的業務和報告的撰寫\n我想我們今天的這個報告是我們這個近幾年來的一個中共的一個滲透又拉的一個手法來做一個報告當然它是一個累積的還有新的手法那如果新的手法新的手段當然我們會再繼續呈現\n好因為現在陸續發生太多的共諜事件一定會有很多新的情況那是不是說叫我們只要上網去看就這樣一字不漏的這樣都看到之前的我想說現在新的情況是真的很多我想說以後在這報告上面可能是還是要麻煩還是要認真一點用符合議題排定的內容來再做一個比較好的報告這樣可以做得到嗎好謝謝指導好謝謝那接下來我請國防部顧部長\n是 林委員部長好 剛才詢問國安局的問題 但是我還是一樣請教一下部長國防部包含全部所有的單位 目前有沒有正在偵辦當中但還沒有被媒體爆出來的共諜案 有還是沒有我想有關司法調查中的個案 我想我們不宜在這裡做任何的披露\n如果是說像部長說的如果偵查不公開的話那具體內容本席這邊可能就不多問了但是說未來如果這幾個案子有結果國防部能不能夠主動的提交書面的說明給本委員會書面一些報告呢\n您是說個案嗎?對,如果幾個案子有結果的話因為剛才部長說嘛現在偵查不公開嘛後面有結果的話那是不是我們有資格權利就是國安部能不能主動提交這些書面說明呢?給本委員會呢?我想因為就相關的這些報告的這個內容如果在在\n不機敏的這個前提之下,我想應該可以提供但是如果是涉及機敏的不公開的話,這可能我們要考量\n好 本期還是希望都不要有啦當然也是希望說可以保持不要再有共諜的事件主席再給我一點時間謝謝那我再請教部長一下就是說相信全台民眾現在都很關心我們的潛艦國造的事情因為按照期程規劃應該是在這個月就要開始進行了海策但是那因為之前審查預算的時候朝野各黨團\n都有提案要求國防部要等海昆號通過海測之後才能動用114年的後續件的預算等到海測進度確定不會影響之後才會同意讓這整個預算解凍但是現在已經是月底了那請問開始海測了沒還是有沒有稍微延後呢還沒有開始\n所以畢竟我們這是第一次造潛艦那測試過程中當然會有一些非預期的缺失要改正那部長我想請問一下目前還有哪些缺失需要改正的呢委員我想這個部分也不適宜在這裡做如果私下委員想要了解我們再跟委員做一個機敏的專報\n因為我想這個應該不是機敏吧因為這個說這些要改正的問題應該是大家說應該是都可以知道的吧因為現在到底進度在哪裡因為現在的問題真的是或許現在都是共諜案已經把這一個潛艦的國造的案子已經蓋過去了但是我想說\n這個東西我覺得國防部應該是還是有責任吧要向大家報告吧還有後續還有一個2840億這一筆預算其實非常非常的大先前就有傳出國防部想要把潛艦這個預算從公務預算移到特別預算新聞來源當然是國安人士啦我想這個記者也不敢隨便憑空捏造那我想要請問部長\n你們目前研議的結果是真的打算這樣做嗎還是要看潛艦的測試進度呢是不是會排除這樣的可能性還是真的有這樣的可能性呢\n您是說排入今年的特別預算嗎不是就是這種興建案從公務預算想要移到特別預算因為這種過去都是有這樣的案例無論是技術難度還是預算的金額還是執行的期程其實以前都有這樣的案例而且以前都是比這一次前建國造的預算額度技術難度都是更高的所以\n因為現在原型艦的部分在渤港測試的這個缺失的改善還沒有全數的完成那我們等到這個渤港測試全數完成海測通過之後那我們才比較有把握來進行下一階段那就這個部分我們在考量這個時候再考量那會從購物預算把這個整個移到特別預算嗎\n目前因為海撤還沒有開始進行那海撤的結果還不知道所以我們現在沒有辦法說要把它擺入到特別預算那請問什麼時候要進行海撤呢當初部長也是說從四月份嘛對不對當初大家都是知道的現在到四月了已經四月底了到現在還沒有海撤進度會不會太延後了吧\n我們還是以安全為前提所以我們還是要先確認所有相關的這個博港測試的這一些測試都能夠擋到安全無疑的情況之下我們才會准他們進行海測本席最後還是提醒人民的納稅錢是民脂民膏請部長務必要遵守財政紀律不要把人民的血汗錢當作私房錢還有小金庫再獨享浪費公帑可以嗎\n我們非常的謹慎而且經營業在看待我們這個原型建的建造這個是非常重要的一件事情所以我們每個禮拜都在督管這件事情\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.330 --> 00:07.582\n有請外交部次長委員好\n\n00:09.522 --> 00:29.767\n次長好因為外交部共諜案的問題相信今天大家其實都是問一樣的問題所以本席還是要跟次長再確認一次次長你今天在這邊有信心明確的跟本席還有本委員會的全體委員保證確定身邊都沒有共諜也保證也沒有整個都是沒有共諜的嗎\n\n00:34.141 --> 00:52.654\n那麼以中共的這個積極的作為那麼我們只能夠說我們會持續的精進我們的對應的方法第二個我們會加強我們的相關的同仁他的一個這個相關的保防意識那麼說要我保證說完全沒有一個\n\n00:54.455 --> 01:20.018\n這個任何的一個共諜我想這個在現在的一個狀況大概不是特別實際的一個做法但是我們的假設是說我們的同仁都是盡忠職守那麼都是忠於國家的我想這個假設我們是用這樣的一個假設來進行但是我們的相關的調查的工作相關的保防的措施相關的陣風的這個做法我們會持續的精進那麼能夠符合這個委員的要求\n\n01:20.478 --> 01:35.673\n好那萬一發生了你會如何面對和處理呢還是有請次長回去你可不可以特別清查內部了解外交部裡面是不是還有沒有人該做安全查核卻沒有做的那請次長務必趕快把外交部發生共諜的這個廓網把它補起來可以嗎\n\n01:40.758 --> 02:01.212\n當然,我們這次的事情聲表遺憾,也感覺到我們有必要再更加的加強內部的作為所以我們也會跟行政院、會同考試院共同制定的涉及國家安全或重大利益公共人員的特殊查核辦法\n\n02:02.052 --> 02:06.693\n希望能夠透過相關辦法的精進擴大我們的查核的範圍增進我們的查核的能量那能夠去有效的防堵未來的相關事件繼續發生好那因為本席是替你們的部長擔心啦不要到時候跟前部長吳釗燮一樣木蘭回首的時候都發現共諜就在身邊畢竟兩岸啊現在的局勢很緊張中共在國際上對台灣又不斷的打壓\n\n02:29.778 --> 02:35.059\n所以台灣整個的處境其實外交處境是非常的嚴峻的然後相信你知道這個社界這部李安導演所演的這個諜戰情色懸疑的電影吧應該有聽過嘛相信我們外交人員就好像是無煙消戰場上面的戰士都是一樣的經常單獨在國外面對嚴峻的外交挑戰不但背負莫大的國家的壓力重點很多外交人員都是獨自一個人赴任所以其實跟家人都是分開的\n\n02:59.864 --> 03:13.649\n所以要特別注意因為是不是會被對岸吸收更多這種有可能的因素所以總之本席還是在這邊要特別的提醒次長也同時要提醒今天在座的各位首長畢竟你們的身份比較特殊都是在維護國家安全的重要的位置上面所以務必要隨時提高警戒小心共諜就在身邊可以嗎\n\n03:23.473 --> 03:39.419\n是當然那麼不過也跟委員報告我相信前後任的部長大概都有一樣的一個心態那麼我們絕對是盡忠職守忠於國家那麼發生這樣的事情我想在制度上面我們都需要檢討精進那麼他們不是所願那麼自己再帶進這樣的一個狀況進來這個地方這個請委員能夠了解那麼在相關的這個作為方面\n\n03:52.284 --> 04:18.778\n包括我們外交的這個副任那麼提供注意隨時注意他的身心的狀況隨時注意他的這個交友的狀況這是外交部持續在做的一個努力但是一定這個有制度有辦法一定還是有破網那麼我們會持續的精進同時不斷的透過我們的內部的教育對於副任人員的持續的這個教育那這是我們教育我們這個外交部持續在進行的工作\n\n04:19.209 --> 04:23.532\n好謝謝那我下一個有請國安局副局長\n\n04:33.530 --> 04:57.404\n副局長今天本席有認真看你們的書面報告相信副局長你對今天的書面報告內容應該是也是有看過了嘛是不是但是副局長看過報告之後你有沒有一種熟悉的感覺就是你知道為什麼本席會這樣說呢因為今天看到書面報告的時候神奇的事情就來了局長你看一下這邊的一面的資料的時候是今天國安局的報告另外一份的話是今年1月12號國安局的報告\n\n05:00.226 --> 05:03.369\n那國安局報告的時候是放在官網上的共諜案滲透手法分析報告然後我比對了一下這兩份報告標記化綠色的部分竟然都是一模一樣的所以當然就是只有說有一個就是第五身份掩護接觸政府人員當然是\n\n05:18.540 --> 05:38.914\n這個就是中共用掩護身份接觸到我們政府官員還有民意代表這是寫得很誠實啦就是最近都被抓到的共諜嘛那副局長我本席想要了解一下就是國安局同仁都是為了兩岸緊張的諜報的工作大家都很用心是值得嘉獎的但是國安局的報告不是一直都是寫得不錯嗎但是今天國安局竟然會淪落到抄襲這樣還發揮了超能力還開始抄襲之前的報告那副局長今天這樣的業務和報告的撰寫\n\n05:49.881 --> 06:05.592\n我想我們今天的這個報告是我們這個近幾年來的一個中共的一個滲透又拉的一個手法來做一個報告當然它是一個累積的還有新的手法那如果新的手法新的手段當然我們會再繼續呈現\n\n06:07.293 --> 06:23.762\n好因為現在陸續發生太多的共諜事件一定會有很多新的情況那是不是說叫我們只要上網去看就這樣一字不漏的這樣都看到之前的我想說現在新的情況是真的很多我想說以後在這報告上面可能是還是要麻煩還是要認真一點用符合議題排定的內容來再做一個比較好的報告這樣可以做得到嗎好謝謝指導好謝謝那接下來我請國防部顧部長\n\n06:44.347 --> 07:08.020\n是林委員部長好剛才詢問國安局的問題但是我還是一樣請教一下部長國防部包含全部所有的單位目前有沒有正在偵辦當中但還沒有被媒體爆出來的共諜案有還是沒有我想有關司法調查中的個案我想我們不宜在這裡做任何的披露\n\n07:09.993 --> 07:27.806\n如果是說像部長說的如果偵查不公開的話那具體內容本席這邊可能就不多問了但是說未來如果這幾個案子有結果國防部能不能夠主動的提交書面的說明給本委員會書面一些報告呢\n\n07:29.093 --> 07:56.346\n您是說個案嗎?對,如果幾個案子有結果的話因為剛才部長說嘛現在偵查不公開嘛後面有結果的話那是不是我們有資格權利就是國安部能不能主動提交這些書面說明呢?給本委員會呢?我想因為就相關的這些報告的這個內容如果在在\n\n07:58.871 --> 08:10.061\n不機敏的這個前提之下,我想應該可以提供但是如果是涉及機敏的不公開的話,這可能我們要考量\n\n08:11.192 --> 08:20.578\n好本期還是希望都不要有啦當然也是希望說可以保持不要再有共諜的事件主席再給我一點時間謝謝那我再請教部長一下就是說相信全台民眾現在都很關心我們的潛艦國造的事情因為按照期程規劃應該是在這個月就要開始進行了海策但是那因為之前審查預算的時候朝野各黨團\n\n08:36.129 --> 08:42.295\n都有提案要求國防部要等海昆號通過海測之後才能動用114年的後續件的預算等到海測進度確定不會影響之後才會同意讓這整個預算解凍但是現在已經是月底了那請問開始海測了沒還是有沒有稍微延後呢還沒有開始\n\n08:59.648 --> 09:21.226\n所以畢竟我們這是第一次造潛艦那測試過程中當然會有一些非預期的缺失要改正那部長我想請問一下目前還有哪些缺失需要改正的呢委員我想這個部分也不適宜在這裡做如果私下委員想要了解我們再跟委員做一個機敏的專報\n\n09:22.315 --> 09:25.978\n因為我想這個應該不是機敏吧因為這個說這些要改正的問題應該是大家說應該是都可以知道的吧因為現在到底進度在哪裡因為現在的問題真的是或許現在都是共諜案已經把這一個潛艦的國造的案子已經蓋過去了但是我想說\n\n09:41.351 --> 09:44.052\n這個東西我覺得國防部應該是還是有責任吧要向大家報告吧還有後續還有一個2840億這一筆預算其實非常非常的大先前就有傳出國防部想要把潛艦這個預算從公務預算移到特別預算新聞來源當然是國安人士啦我想這個記者也不敢隨便憑空捏造那我想要請問部長\n\n10:04.676 --> 10:10.219\n你們目前研議的結果是真的打算這樣做嗎還是要看潛艦的測試進度呢是不是會排除這樣的可能性還是真的有這樣的可能性呢\n\n10:18.484 --> 10:42.737\n您是說排入今年的特別預算嗎不是就是這種興建案從公務預算想要移到特別預算因為這種過去都是有這樣的案例無論是技術難度還是預算的金額還是執行的期程其實以前都有這樣的案例而且以前都是比這一次前建國造的預算額度技術難度都是更高的所以\n\n10:43.337 --> 11:08.213\n因為現在原型艦的部分在渤港測試的這個缺失的改善還沒有全數的完成那我們等到這個渤港測試全數完成海測通過之後那我們才比較有把握來進行下一階段那就這個部分我們在考量這個時候再考量那會從購物預算把這個整個移到特別預算嗎\n\n11:09.402 --> 11:30.453\n目前因為海撤還沒有開始進行那海撤的結果還不知道所以我們現在沒有辦法說要把它擺入到特別預算那請問什麼時候要進行海撤呢當初部長也是說從四月份嘛對不對當初大家都是知道的現在到四月了已經四月底了到現在還沒有海撤進度會不會太延後了吧\n\n11:35.890 --> 12:04.865\n我們還是以安全為前提所以我們還是要先確認所有相關的這個博港測試的這一些測試都能夠擋到安全無疑的情況之下我們才會准他們進行海測本席最後還是提醒人民的納稅錢是民脂民膏請部長務必要遵守財政紀律不要把人民的血汗錢當作私房錢還有小金庫再獨享浪費公帑可以嗎\n\n12:05.707 --> 12:22.840\n我們非常的謹慎而且經營業在看待我們這個原型建的建造這個是非常重要的一件事情所以我們每個禮拜都在督管這件事情\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.33,"end":7.582,"text":"有請外交部次長委員好"},{"start":9.522,"end":29.767,"text":"次長好因為外交部共諜案的問題相信今天大家其實都是問一樣的問題所以本席還是要跟次長再確認一次次長你今天在這邊有信心明確的跟本席還有本委員會的全體委員保證確定身邊都沒有共諜也保證也沒有整個都是沒有共諜的嗎"},{"start":34.141,"end":52.654,"text":"那麼以中共的這個積極的作為那麼我們只能夠說我們會持續的精進我們的對應的方法第二個我們會加強我們的相關的同仁他的一個這個相關的保防意識那麼說要我保證說完全沒有一個"},{"start":54.455,"end":80.018,"text":"這個任何的一個共諜我想這個在現在的一個狀況大概不是特別實際的一個做法但是我們的假設是說我們的同仁都是盡忠職守那麼都是忠於國家的我想這個假設我們是用這樣的一個假設來進行但是我們的相關的調查的工作相關的保防的措施相關的陣風的這個做法我們會持續的精進那麼能夠符合這個委員的要求"},{"start":80.478,"end":95.673,"text":"好 那萬一發生了 你會如何面對和處理呢 還是有請次長回去 你可不可以特別清查內部 了解外交部裡面是不是還有沒有人該做安全查核 卻沒有做的那請次長務必趕快把外交部發生共諜的這個廓網把它補起來 可以嗎"},{"start":100.758,"end":121.212,"text":"當然,我們這次的事情聲表遺憾,也感覺到我們有必要再更加的加強內部的作為所以我們也會跟行政院、會同考試院共同制定的涉及國家安全或重大利益公共人員的特殊查核辦法"},{"start":122.052,"end":126.693,"text":"希望能夠透過相關辦法的精進擴大我們的查核的範圍增進我們的查核的能量那能夠去有效的防堵未來的相關事件繼續發生好那因為本席是替你們的部長擔心啦不要到時候跟前部長吳釗燮一樣木蘭回首的時候都發現共諜就在身邊畢竟兩岸啊現在的局勢很緊張中共在國際上對台灣又不斷的打壓"},{"start":149.778,"end":155.059,"text":"所以台灣整個的處境其實外交處境是非常的嚴峻的然後相信你知道這個社界這部李安導演所演的這個諜戰情色懸疑的電影吧應該有聽過嘛相信我們外交人員就好像是無煙消戰場上面的戰士都是一樣的經常單獨在國外面對嚴峻的外交挑戰不但背負莫大的國家的壓力重點很多外交人員都是獨自一個人赴任所以其實跟家人都是分開的"},{"start":179.864,"end":193.649,"text":"所以要特別注意因為是不是會被對岸吸收更多這種有可能的因素所以總之本席還是在這邊要特別的提醒次長也同時要提醒今天在座的各位首長畢竟你們的身份比較特殊都是在維護國家安全的重要的位置上面所以務必要隨時提高警戒小心共諜就在身邊可以嗎"},{"start":203.473,"end":219.419,"text":"是當然 那麼不過也跟委員報告我相信前後任的部長大概都有一樣的一個心態那麼我們絕對是盡忠職守忠於國家那麼發生這樣的事情我想在制度上面我們都需要檢討精進那麼他們不是所願那麼自己再帶進這樣的一個狀況進來這個地方這個請委員能夠了解那麼在相關的這個作為方面"},{"start":232.284,"end":258.778,"text":"包括我們外交的這個副任那麼提供注意隨時注意他的身心的狀況隨時注意他的這個交友的狀況這是外交部持續在做的一個努力但是一定這個有制度有辦法一定還是有破網那麼我們會持續的精進同時不斷的透過我們的內部的教育對於副任人員的持續的這個教育那這是我們教育我們這個外交部持續在進行的工作"},{"start":259.209,"end":263.532,"text":"好 謝謝那我下一個有請國安局副局長"},{"start":273.53,"end":297.404,"text":"副局長今天本席有認真看你們的書面報告相信副局長你對今天的書面報告內容應該是也是有看過了嘛是不是但是副局長看過報告之後你有沒有一種熟悉的感覺就是你知道為什麼本席會這樣說呢因為今天看到書面報告的時候神奇的事情就來了局長你看一下這邊的一面的資料的時候是今天國安局的報告另外一份的話是今年1月12號國安局的報告"},{"start":300.226,"end":303.369,"text":"那國安局報告的時候是放在官網上的共諜案滲透手法分析報告然後我比對了一下這兩份報告標記化綠色的部分竟然都是一模一樣的所以當然就是只有說有一個就是第五身份掩護接觸政府人員當然是"},{"start":318.54,"end":338.914,"text":"這個就是中共用掩護身份接觸到我們政府官員還有民意代表這是寫得很誠實啦就是最近都被抓到的共諜嘛那副局長我本席想要了解一下就是國安局同仁都是為了兩岸緊張的諜報的工作大家都很用心是值得嘉獎的但是國安局的報告不是一直都是寫得不錯嗎但是今天國安局竟然會淪落到抄襲這樣還發揮了超能力還開始抄襲之前的報告那副局長今天這樣的業務和報告的撰寫"},{"start":349.881,"end":365.592,"text":"我想我們今天的這個報告是我們這個近幾年來的一個中共的一個滲透又拉的一個手法來做一個報告當然它是一個累積的還有新的手法那如果新的手法新的手段當然我們會再繼續呈現"},{"start":367.293,"end":383.762,"text":"好因為現在陸續發生太多的共諜事件一定會有很多新的情況那是不是說叫我們只要上網去看就這樣一字不漏的這樣都看到之前的我想說現在新的情況是真的很多我想說以後在這報告上面可能是還是要麻煩還是要認真一點用符合議題排定的內容來再做一個比較好的報告這樣可以做得到嗎好謝謝指導好謝謝那接下來我請國防部顧部長"},{"start":404.347,"end":428.02,"text":"是 林委員部長好 剛才詢問國安局的問題 但是我還是一樣請教一下部長國防部包含全部所有的單位 目前有沒有正在偵辦當中但還沒有被媒體爆出來的共諜案 有還是沒有我想有關司法調查中的個案 我想我們不宜在這裡做任何的披露"},{"start":429.993,"end":447.806,"text":"如果是說像部長說的如果偵查不公開的話那具體內容本席這邊可能就不多問了但是說未來如果這幾個案子有結果國防部能不能夠主動的提交書面的說明給本委員會書面一些報告呢"},{"start":449.093,"end":476.346,"text":"您是說個案嗎?對,如果幾個案子有結果的話因為剛才部長說嘛現在偵查不公開嘛後面有結果的話那是不是我們有資格權利就是國安部能不能主動提交這些書面說明呢?給本委員會呢?我想因為就相關的這些報告的這個內容如果在在"},{"start":478.871,"end":490.061,"text":"不機敏的這個前提之下,我想應該可以提供但是如果是涉及機敏的不公開的話,這可能我們要考量"},{"start":491.192,"end":500.578,"text":"好 本期還是希望都不要有啦當然也是希望說可以保持不要再有共諜的事件主席再給我一點時間謝謝那我再請教部長一下就是說相信全台民眾現在都很關心我們的潛艦國造的事情因為按照期程規劃應該是在這個月就要開始進行了海策但是那因為之前審查預算的時候朝野各黨團"},{"start":516.129,"end":522.295,"text":"都有提案要求國防部要等海昆號通過海測之後才能動用114年的後續件的預算等到海測進度確定不會影響之後才會同意讓這整個預算解凍但是現在已經是月底了那請問開始海測了沒還是有沒有稍微延後呢還沒有開始"},{"start":539.648,"end":561.226,"text":"所以畢竟我們這是第一次造潛艦那測試過程中當然會有一些非預期的缺失要改正那部長我想請問一下目前還有哪些缺失需要改正的呢委員我想這個部分也不適宜在這裡做如果私下委員想要了解我們再跟委員做一個機敏的專報"},{"start":562.315,"end":565.978,"text":"因為我想這個應該不是機敏吧因為這個說這些要改正的問題應該是大家說應該是都可以知道的吧因為現在到底進度在哪裡因為現在的問題真的是或許現在都是共諜案已經把這一個潛艦的國造的案子已經蓋過去了但是我想說"},{"start":581.351,"end":584.052,"text":"這個東西我覺得國防部應該是還是有責任吧要向大家報告吧還有後續還有一個2840億這一筆預算其實非常非常的大先前就有傳出國防部想要把潛艦這個預算從公務預算移到特別預算新聞來源當然是國安人士啦我想這個記者也不敢隨便憑空捏造那我想要請問部長"},{"start":604.676,"end":610.219,"text":"你們目前研議的結果是真的打算這樣做嗎還是要看潛艦的測試進度呢是不是會排除這樣的可能性還是真的有這樣的可能性呢"},{"start":618.484,"end":642.737,"text":"您是說排入今年的特別預算嗎不是就是這種興建案從公務預算想要移到特別預算因為這種過去都是有這樣的案例無論是技術難度還是預算的金額還是執行的期程其實以前都有這樣的案例而且以前都是比這一次前建國造的預算額度技術難度都是更高的所以"},{"start":643.337,"end":668.213,"text":"因為現在原型艦的部分在渤港測試的這個缺失的改善還沒有全數的完成那我們等到這個渤港測試全數完成海測通過之後那我們才比較有把握來進行下一階段那就這個部分我們在考量這個時候再考量那會從購物預算把這個整個移到特別預算嗎"},{"start":669.402,"end":690.453,"text":"目前因為海撤還沒有開始進行那海撤的結果還不知道所以我們現在沒有辦法說要把它擺入到特別預算那請問什麼時候要進行海撤呢當初部長也是說從四月份嘛對不對當初大家都是知道的現在到四月了已經四月底了到現在還沒有海撤進度會不會太延後了吧"},{"start":695.89,"end":724.865,"text":"我們還是以安全為前提所以我們還是要先確認所有相關的這個博港測試的這一些測試都能夠擋到安全無疑的情況之下我們才會准他們進行海測本席最後還是提醒人民的納稅錢是民脂民膏請部長務必要遵守財政紀律不要把人民的血汗錢當作私房錢還有小金庫再獨享浪費公帑可以嗎"},{"start":725.707,"end":742.84,"text":"我們非常的謹慎而且經營業在看待我們這個原型建的建造這個是非常重要的一件事情所以我們每個禮拜都在督管這件事情"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":748,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（12時23分）謝謝主席，有請外交部次長。"],["陳次長明祺：委員好。"],["林委員憶君：次長好。因為外交部的共諜案，相信今天大家都是問一樣的問題。本席還是要再和次長確認一次，次長，你今天在這邊有信心向本席和本委員會的全體委員明確保證，確定身邊都沒有共諜，也保證整個部會都沒有共諜嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：以中共的積極作為，只能說我們會持續精進對應的方法，第二個，我們會加強相關同仁的保防意識。要我保證沒有任何共諜，我想就現在的狀況，這大概不是一個特別實際的做法。我們假設同仁都是盡忠職守、都是忠於國家，我們是用這樣的假設進行，但是相關的調查工作、保防措施、政風做法，我們都會持續精進，希望做到符合委員的要求。"],["林委員憶君：萬一發生了，你們會如何面對和處理呢？還有，次長回去之後可不可以特別清查內部，了解外交部裡面是不是還有人該做安全查核卻沒有做，請次長務必趕快把之前外交部發生共諜問題的破網補起來，可以嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：當然，一定。這一次的事情，我們深表遺憾，也感覺到我們有必要再加強內部的作為。所以我們也會針對行政院會同考試院共同制定的涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員特殊查核辦法，希望能夠透過相關辦法的精進，擴大查核的範圍，增進查核的能量，有效防堵未來相關事件繼續發生。"],["林委員憶君：本席是替你們部長擔心啦！"],["陳次長明祺：感謝。"],["林委員憶君：不要到時候和前部長吳釗燮一樣，驀然回首發現共諜就在身邊。畢竟兩岸現在的局勢很緊張，中共在國際上對臺灣不斷打壓，臺灣的外交處境非常嚴峻。你知道李安導演拍攝的諜戰情色懸疑電影「色戒」吧？應該有聽過嘛！外交人員就好像是無煙硝戰場上的戰士，經常單獨在國外面對嚴峻的外交挑戰，背負莫大的國家壓力，而且很多外交人員都是獨自赴任，和家人分開，所以要特別注意是不是會被對岸吸收，要注意相關可能的因素。","總之本席要特別提醒次長，也要同時提醒今天在座的各位首長，畢竟你們的身分比較特殊，都是處於維護國家安全的重要位置，所以務必隨時提高警戒，小心共諜就在身邊。可以嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：是，當然。不過也要向委員報告，我相信前後任的部長大概都是一樣的心態，我們絕對是盡忠職守、忠於國家。發生這樣的事情，在制度上面，我們都需要檢討精進，而且這也不是他們所願，他們也不希望自己把這樣的狀況帶進來，請委員能夠了解。在相關作為方面，包括外交人員赴任時，要隨時注意他的身心狀況、交友狀況，這是外交部持續在做的努力。但即使有制度、有辦法，一定還是會有破口，我們會持續精進，同時不斷透過內部教育，包括對赴任人員的持續教育，這是外交部持續在進行的工作。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。"],["陳次長明祺：謝謝。"],["林委員憶君：下一個有請國安局副局長。"],["黃副局長明昭：委員好。"],["林委員憶君：副局長好。今天本席有認真看你們的書面報告，副局長應該也看過今天的書面報告內容，是不是？"],["黃副局長明昭：是。"],["林委員憶君：副局長看過報告之後，有沒有一種熟悉的感覺？為什麼本席會這樣說？因為今天看到書面報告的時候，神奇的事情發生了，請副局長看一下。這邊的資料是今天國安局的報告，另外一份則是今年1月12日國安局的報告，國安局的報告就是放在官網上的「共諜案滲透手法分析報告」。","本席比對了一下，這兩份報告劃綠色的標記部分竟然一模一樣。第五項利用身分掩護，接觸政府人員，這個就是中共用掩護的身分，接觸我們的政府官員和民意代表，這部分寫的很誠實啦！就是最近被抓到的共諜嘛！副局長，本席想要了解一下，國安局同仁為了兩岸緊張的諜報工作，大家都很用心，這是值得嘉獎的，而且國安局的報告不是一直都寫的不錯嗎？可是今天國安局竟然淪落到抄襲，發揮抄能力開始抄襲之前的報告。副局長，今天這樣的業務報告是不是應該好好檢討一下呢？"],["黃副局長明昭：我們今天的報告是針對近幾年來中共滲透誘拉的手法進行報告，當然，它是累積的，另外還有新的手法，如果有新的手法、新的手段，我們會繼續呈現。"],["林委員憶君：因為陸續發生太多共諜事件，所以一定會有很多新情況，但這不是叫我們直接上網看的理由，也不能這樣一字不漏，只讓我們看到之前的內容，因為現在新的狀況真的很多。以後報告可能還是要認真一點寫，要符合排定的議題內容，做一份比較好的報告。可以做到嗎？"],["黃副局長明昭：好，謝謝指導。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。接下來請國防部顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：林委員好。"],["林委員憶君：部長好。剛才詢問國安局的問題，本席一樣請教一下部長，國防部所有的單位，目前有沒有正在偵辦當中，但還沒有被媒體爆出來的共諜案？有還是沒有？"],["顧部長立雄：有關司法調查中的個案，我們不宜在這裡做任何披露。"],["林委員憶君：如果是因為部長說的偵查不公開，本席就不多問具體內容，但是未來這幾個案子如果有結果，國防部能不能主動提交書面報告給本委員會呢？"],["顧部長立雄：您是說個案嗎？"],["林委員憶君：對，如果這幾個案子有結果的話。因為剛才部長說現在偵查不公開，如果之後有結果的話，我們是不是有知的權利？國防部能不能主動提交這些書面說明給本委員會呢？"],["顧部長立雄：就相關報告的內容來說，在不涉及機敏的前提之下，我想應該可以提供，但是如果涉及機敏或不能公開的部分，我們可能就要考量。"],["林委員憶君：好，本席希望不要再有共諜事件啦！主席，再給本席一點時間，謝謝。再請教部長，相信全臺民眾現在都很關心潛艦國造的事情，因為按照期程規劃，這個月應該就要開始進行海測，但是因為之前審查預算的時候，朝野各黨團都有提案，要求國防部等海鯤號通過海測之後，才能動用114年的後續艦預算，等到海測進度確定不會影響之後，才會同意讓整筆預算解凍。但是現在已經月底了，請問開始海測了嗎？有沒有稍微延後呢？"],["顧部長立雄：還沒有開始。"],["林委員憶君：畢竟我們是第一次造潛艦嘛！測試過程中當然會有一些非預期的缺失要改正。部長，本席想請問一下，目前還有哪些缺失需要改正呢？"],["顧部長立雄：委員，我想這個部分也不適宜在這裡說明，如果委員想要了解，我們私下再向委員做機敏專報，好嗎？"],["林委員憶君：本席認為這個部分應該不是機敏吧？這些要改正的問題，大家應該都可以知道吧？現在進度到底到哪裡？或許現在因為共諜案，所以潛艦國造的案子被蓋過去，但是本席認為這部分國防部還是有責任要向大家報告吧！後續還有一筆2,840億元的預算，這筆預算非常大，先前就有傳出國防部想要把潛艦預算從公務預算移到特別預算，新聞來源當然是國安人士啦！因為記者不敢隨便憑空捏造。","本席想要請問部長，你們目前研議的結果，是真的打算這樣做嗎？還是要看潛艦的測試進度呢？是不是會排除這樣的可能性？還是真的有這樣的可能性呢？"],["顧部長立雄：您是說排入今年的特別預算嗎？"],["林委員憶君：不是。就是把這種新建案從公務預算移到特別預算，因為過去有這樣的案例，無論是技術難度，還是預算金額、執行期程，其實以前都有這樣的案例，而且以前都是比這次潛艦國造的預算額度、技術難度更高的案子，所以……"],["顧部長立雄：因為現在原型艦的部分，泊港測試的缺失改善還沒有全數完成，我們要等到泊港測試全數完成，海測通過之後，才比較有把握進行下一階段，到時候我們會再考量這個部分。"],["林委員憶君：會把這一筆從公務預算整個移到特別預算嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：因為海測還沒有開始進行，不知道海測的結果如何，所以我們現在沒有辦法把它擺到特別預算。"],["林委員憶君：請問什麼時候要進行海測呢？因為當初部長也是說4月份，這是大家都知道的，現在已經4月底，但是到現在還沒有海測，進度未免太落後了吧？"],["顧部長立雄：我們是以安全為前提，所以我們要先確認所有泊港測試都能夠達到安全無虞的情況，才會准他們進行海測。"],["林委員憶君：好。本席最後還是要提醒，人民的納稅錢是民脂民膏，請部長務必遵守財政紀律，不要把人民的血汗錢當作私房錢和小金庫獨享，或者浪費公帑。可以嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：是。我們非常謹慎，而且兢兢業業在看待原型艦的建造，這是非常重要的事情，所以我們每個禮拜都在督管這件事情。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林憶君委員上臺質詢。","以上已登記質詢委員，除不在場外均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。本日會議有林岱樺委員提出書面質詢，列入紀錄並刊登公報。委員書面及口頭質詢未及答復部分，或要求補充資料者，請相關機關以書面於二週內答復。委員另指定期限者，從其所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-10","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","楊瓊瓔","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","李坤城","王鴻薇","邱志偉","林憶君","林岱樺"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、外交部部長、國家安全局局長、總統府秘書長、國家安全會議秘書長報告「近\n期國軍、外交部、總統府、國安會遭共諜滲透，其影響國安層面、範圍及未來人員考核管制之具\n體作法」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144001_00005"}}}