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00:01:01,076\n這是從去年看委員報告這是從我們去年的7月1號開始實施到今年的4月17號還沒有還沒有滿一年我想知道這30萬的普及率是多少我們針對我們所有的小朋友來著大概我們全國統計起來大概46%左右所以還沒有連一半都不到嗎還沒有還沒有我查了一下期刊就是說2020的期刊小兒課的\n\n3\n00:01:02,037 --> 00:01:25,727\n他在做一個所謂的這個developmentalscreenchart這個17項的這個針對0到3歲的他發現developmentaldelay也就是說發展遲緩的這個異常率其實是高達11.25可是我們的6.25我覺得我們是太低估了所以是不是我們做的項目沒有到這17項呢還是說我們的項目裡面有些遺漏了呢\n\n4\n00:01:26,647 --> 00:01:42,972\n因為我們這些你看我們從上面開始就是說可以走階梯可以去抓東西可以去怎麼樣去回應一些單字其實這些當然我每個年齡層的篩檢表可能不一樣可是我是覺得我們的6.2太低了\n\n5\n00:01:44,292 --> 00:01:56,861\n如果說我們太低估這個發展遲緩的話其實會有很大的問題所以畢竟國際期刊認為是11.25的話我覺得我們那個差距不能太大所以說不定我們的篩檢的這個部分是要嚴謹一點是不是\n\n6\n00:01:57,743 --> 00:01:59,304\n我們知道剛才有很多人講到關於費用的問題\n\n7\n00:02:16,616 --> 00:02:30,189\n那費用一次篩檢是400塊對不對轉整費是250塊那如果就基層衛生所在做的話我來實際告訴你他醫生可以拿到多少錢醫生可以拿到如果只有一位醫師的話他可以拿到252塊那護理人員的話是\n\n8\n00:02:35,350 --> 00:02:56,204\n14块如果是10个护理人员的话因为我们按照他的那个所谓的7030降分的话所以要这么这么辛苦的工作做了17项然后护理人员可以拿到是14元然后如果是转诊的话其实转诊其实都是护士在做嘛就护士可以拿到的是多少钱7块钱\n\n9\n00:02:57,392 --> 00:03:13,063\n所以你就知道說這個部分其實可以指定給施作的那名護理人員或是醫師然後轉整的是指定把這250塊給那名護理人員才會實際的增加我們護理人員的辛勞對不對\n\n10\n00:03:15,180 --> 00:03:38,118\n剛才就黃秀芳委員講的那個疫苗100塊護理人員可以拿到多少錢我這樣子來算是2.7塊2.7毛而已所以其實我們不是說注射費很便宜是實際分給醫護人員實在是太少少之又少而且是你是在偏鄉地區服務的話因為他沒有所謂的偏鄉的加急\n\n11\n00:03:39,019 --> 00:04:04,509\n因為這些分配是全國一致性的所以這些部分其實你們都要去去考慮一下可以嗎謝謝那個牽扯到那個衛生所的獎勵兼分配辦法我們再來討論看看我想我想盧委員小弟我跟那個吳市長都是衛生所主任出身的啦所以其實你們都可以馬上就可以了解這個分配的辦法的確如果你沒有specify到說這個工作\n\n12\n00:04:05,749 --> 00:04:28,447\n是這一格互理同仁那當然有十格互理同仁分下去但是問題是你分到這個你別人做的工作也會分到你這裡來是沒有錯啦只是說就概算是這樣實際上是太低太低了所以我的意思是說應該有可以想到更好的辦法但是我們絕對鼓勵偏鄉就是我們來研擬看看偏鄉有沒有特別獎勵的方式這樣\n\n13\n00:04:29,307 --> 00:04:57,700\n好那我們進入到下一個主題就是社會福利的部分就是我看看我們現在的所謂的對稅出我們真正佔的比例是多少我看我們台灣大概是多少你知道嗎第三張第三張對這個現在OECD國家在2019年的時候大概是45%左右就是說佔了他的稅出就是他的比例那我們台灣現在是多少知道嗎部長\n\n14\n00:04:59,741 --> 00:05:09,717\n所謂的社會福利SocialprotectionSocialprotection其實他就是指的是社會福利啦我們有沒有大概我們我剛查了一下台灣大概是23.91%啦\n\n15\n00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:40,568\n然後這樣的GDP是11.2那我是希望說我們大概還在落後國家這邊人家最旁邊的西班牙已經到55%了好那我們看下一張那其實如果就以稅收來看的話其實從2000年也是2000年到現在已經20年的時間其實它這個所謂的我們socialcontribution指的是我們薪資所得或者是說雇主給的那些錢\n\n16\n00:05:42,250 --> 00:05:55,329\n去給我們社會福利這邊的話其實是constant它不會什麼有太大的改變所以我們要去想這些財源要從哪裡來從這20年來其實都是差不多的都是這個樣子我們看下一頁\n\n17\n00:05:57,622 --> 00:06:19,503\n其實有一個很新興的一個想法就是當然在國外已經不是新興所謂的碳稅其實可以作為社會福利的一個來源可是我看了我們的氣候變遷因應法的第三三條所謂的用途裡面沒有講到以後可以作為我們社會福利這個部分那我就去查了這個資料就是說在\n\n18\n00:06:21,380 --> 00:06:38,585\n其實我們歐美很多芬蘭1990年就開始有碳費其實我們碳費是多少你知道嗎部長公告的價格一公噸是300塊那我就舉瑞士的例子好了在2008年的時候他訂的是474塊台幣過了大概10年以後2022年\n\n19\n00:06:43,649 --> 00:07:04,044\n他漲了10倍現在是他要付4744塊的碳費那結果他把這個那麼大筆的收入呢他就直接所謂的lumsumtransfer也就是一次性的支付給社福基金三分之二把所有的那個所得大概是12億瑞士法郎\n\n20\n00:07:06,706 --> 00:07:34,024\n給我們所謂的healthcarerate這樣所以就是說其實從碳費這個部分以後的這個溫室氣體管理基金其實以後要有一個去修正它的用途其實可以用來做這樣的一個運用因為我們知道像看到這個一個表格這是立陶宛的表格他就說了其實他作為碳費作為一個財政資源的時候他可以幫忙\n\n21\n00:07:34,985 --> 00:07:53,638\n百分之八十以上的人到八這邊到了零界點到了零這個是以十單位所以這是百分之八十的意思也就是說碳費可以作為社會福利的一個來源的時候它可以照顧絕大多數的人所以請以後再做\n\n22\n00:07:55,018 --> 00:08:14,366\n我們的財政規劃的時候可以把碳稅納入進來這樣你會減輕很多的負擔請部長多多去想一想謝謝我想感謝委員引經濟田的國外的經驗我想這個是我們未來來努力的方向謝謝謝謝盧委員最標準謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12005\t13746\t主席有請部長部長辛苦了我們先就我們偏鄉的篩檢來問幾個問題那我想知道看到你們的報告是說異常率是6.2%那30萬人大概是一年裡面的量嗎\n36259\t61076\t這是從去年 看委員報告這是從我們去年的7月1號開始實施到今年的4月17號還沒有還沒有滿一年我想知道這30萬的普及率是多少我們針對我們所有的小朋友來著大概我們全國統計起來大概46%左右所以還沒有連一半都不到嗎還沒有還沒有我查了一下期刊就是說2020的期刊小兒課的\n62037\t85727\t他在做一個所謂的這個developmental screen chart這個17項的這個針對0到3歲的他發現developmental delay也就是說發展遲緩的這個異常率其實是高達11.25可是我們的6.25我覺得我們是太低估了所以是不是我們做的項目沒有到這17項呢還是說我們的項目裡面有些遺漏了呢\n86647\t102972\t因為我們這些你看我們從上面開始就是說可以走階梯可以去抓東西可以去怎麼樣去回應一些單字其實這些當然我每個年齡層的篩檢表可能不一樣可是我是覺得我們的6.2太低了\n104292\t116861\t如果說我們太低估這個發展遲緩的話其實會有很大的問題所以畢竟國際期刊認為是11.25的話我覺得我們那個差距不能太大所以說不定我們的篩檢的這個部分是要嚴謹一點是不是\n117743\t119304\t我們知道剛才有很多人講到關於費用的問題\n136616\t150189\t那費用一次篩檢是400塊對不對轉整費是250塊那如果就基層衛生所在做的話我來實際告訴你他醫生可以拿到多少錢醫生可以拿到如果只有一位醫師的話他可以拿到252塊那護理人員的話是\n155350\t176204\t14块如果是10个护理人员的话因为我们按照他的那个所谓的70 30降分的话所以要这么这么辛苦的工作做了17项然后护理人员可以拿到是14元然后如果是转诊的话其实转诊其实都是护士在做嘛就护士可以拿到的是多少钱7块钱\n177392\t193063\t所以你就知道說這個部分其實可以指定給施作的那名護理人員或是醫師然後轉整的是指定把這250塊給那名護理人員才會實際的增加我們護理人員的辛勞 對不對\n195180\t218118\t剛才就黃秀芳委員講的那個疫苗100塊護理人員可以拿到多少錢我這樣子來算是2.7塊2.7毛而已所以其實我們不是說注射費很便宜是實際分給醫護人員實在是太少少之又少而且是你是在偏鄉地區服務的話因為他沒有所謂的偏鄉的加急\n219019\t244509\t因為這些分配是全國一致性的所以這些部分其實你們都要去去考慮一下可以嗎謝謝那個牽扯到那個衛生所的獎勵兼分配辦法我們再來討論看看我想我想盧委員小弟我跟那個吳市長都是衛生所主任出身的啦所以其實你們都可以馬上就可以了解這個分配的辦法的確如果你沒有specify到說這個工作\n245749\t268447\t是這一格互理同仁那當然有十格互理同仁分下去但是問題是你分到這個你別人做的工作也會分到你這裡來是沒有錯啦只是說就概算是這樣實際上是太低太低了所以我的意思是說應該有可以想到更好的辦法但是我們絕對鼓勵偏鄉就是我們來研擬看看偏鄉有沒有特別獎勵的方式這樣\n269307\t297700\t好那我們進入到下一個主題就是社會福利的部分就是我看看我們現在的所謂的對稅出我們真正佔的比例是多少我看我們台灣大概是多少你知道嗎第三張第三張對這個現在OECD國家在2019年的時候大概是45%左右就是說佔了他的稅出就是他的比例那我們台灣現在是多少知道嗎部長\n299741\t309717\t所謂的社會福利Social protectionSocial protection其實他就是指的是社會福利啦我們有沒有大概我們我剛查了一下台灣大概是23.91%啦\n312150\t340568\t然後這樣的GDP是11.2那我是希望說我們大概還在落後國家這邊人家最旁邊的西班牙已經到55%了好 那我們看下一張那其實如果就以稅收來看的話其實從2000年也是2000年到現在已經20年的時間其實它這個所謂的我們social contribution指的是我們薪資所得或者是說雇主給的那些錢\n342250\t355329\t去給我們社會福利這邊的話其實是constant它不會什麼有太大的改變所以我們要去想這些財源要從哪裡來從這20年來其實都是差不多的都是這個樣子我們看下一頁\n357622\t379503\t其實有一個很新興的一個想法就是當然在國外已經不是新興所謂的碳稅其實可以作為社會福利的一個來源可是我看了我們的氣候變遷因應法的第三三條所謂的用途裡面沒有講到以後可以作為我們社會福利這個部分那我就去查了這個資料就是說在\n381380\t398585\t其實我們歐美很多 芬蘭1990年就開始有碳費其實我們碳費是多少 你知道嗎 部長 公告的價格一公噸是300塊 那我就舉瑞士的例子好了在2008年的時候 他訂的是474塊台幣過了大概10年以後 2022年\n403649\t424044\t他漲了10倍 現在是他要付4744塊的碳費那結果他把這個那麼大筆的收入呢他就直接所謂的lumsum transfer也就是一次性的支付給社福基金三分之二把所有的那個所得大概是12億瑞士法郎\n426706\t454024\t給我們所謂的health care rate這樣所以就是說其實從碳費這個部分以後的這個溫室氣體管理基金其實以後要有一個去修正它的用途其實可以用來做這樣的一個運用因為我們知道像看到這個一個表格這是立陶宛的表格他就說了其實他作為碳費作為一個財政資源的時候他可以幫忙\n454985\t473638\t百分之八十以上的人到八這邊到了零界點 到了零這個是以十單位所以這是百分之八十的意思也就是說碳費可以作為社會福利的一個來源的時候它可以照顧絕大多數的人所以請以後再做\n475018\t494366\t我們的財政規劃的時候可以把碳稅納入進來這樣你會減輕很多的負擔請部長多多去想一想謝謝我想感謝委員引經濟田的國外的經驗我想這個是我們未來來努力的方向謝謝謝謝盧委員最標準謝謝部長\n","txt":"主席有請部長部長辛苦了我們先就我們偏鄉的篩檢來問幾個問題那我想知道看到你們的報告是說異常率是6.2%那30萬人大概是一年裡面的量嗎\n這是從去年 看委員報告這是從我們去年的7月1號開始實施到今年的4月17號還沒有還沒有滿一年我想知道這30萬的普及率是多少我們針對我們所有的小朋友來著大概我們全國統計起來大概46%左右所以還沒有連一半都不到嗎還沒有還沒有我查了一下期刊就是說2020的期刊小兒課的\n他在做一個所謂的這個developmental screen chart這個17項的這個針對0到3歲的他發現developmental delay也就是說發展遲緩的這個異常率其實是高達11.25可是我們的6.25我覺得我們是太低估了所以是不是我們做的項目沒有到這17項呢還是說我們的項目裡面有些遺漏了呢\n因為我們這些你看我們從上面開始就是說可以走階梯可以去抓東西可以去怎麼樣去回應一些單字其實這些當然我每個年齡層的篩檢表可能不一樣可是我是覺得我們的6.2太低了\n如果說我們太低估這個發展遲緩的話其實會有很大的問題所以畢竟國際期刊認為是11.25的話我覺得我們那個差距不能太大所以說不定我們的篩檢的這個部分是要嚴謹一點是不是\n我們知道剛才有很多人講到關於費用的問題\n那費用一次篩檢是400塊對不對轉整費是250塊那如果就基層衛生所在做的話我來實際告訴你他醫生可以拿到多少錢醫生可以拿到如果只有一位醫師的話他可以拿到252塊那護理人員的話是\n14块如果是10个护理人员的话因为我们按照他的那个所谓的70 30降分的话所以要这么这么辛苦的工作做了17项然后护理人员可以拿到是14元然后如果是转诊的话其实转诊其实都是护士在做嘛就护士可以拿到的是多少钱7块钱\n所以你就知道說這個部分其實可以指定給施作的那名護理人員或是醫師然後轉整的是指定把這250塊給那名護理人員才會實際的增加我們護理人員的辛勞 對不對\n剛才就黃秀芳委員講的那個疫苗100塊護理人員可以拿到多少錢我這樣子來算是2.7塊2.7毛而已所以其實我們不是說注射費很便宜是實際分給醫護人員實在是太少少之又少而且是你是在偏鄉地區服務的話因為他沒有所謂的偏鄉的加急\n因為這些分配是全國一致性的所以這些部分其實你們都要去去考慮一下可以嗎謝謝那個牽扯到那個衛生所的獎勵兼分配辦法我們再來討論看看我想我想盧委員小弟我跟那個吳市長都是衛生所主任出身的啦所以其實你們都可以馬上就可以了解這個分配的辦法的確如果你沒有specify到說這個工作\n是這一格互理同仁那當然有十格互理同仁分下去但是問題是你分到這個你別人做的工作也會分到你這裡來是沒有錯啦只是說就概算是這樣實際上是太低太低了所以我的意思是說應該有可以想到更好的辦法但是我們絕對鼓勵偏鄉就是我們來研擬看看偏鄉有沒有特別獎勵的方式這樣\n好那我們進入到下一個主題就是社會福利的部分就是我看看我們現在的所謂的對稅出我們真正佔的比例是多少我看我們台灣大概是多少你知道嗎第三張第三張對這個現在OECD國家在2019年的時候大概是45%左右就是說佔了他的稅出就是他的比例那我們台灣現在是多少知道嗎部長\n所謂的社會福利Social protectionSocial protection其實他就是指的是社會福利啦我們有沒有大概我們我剛查了一下台灣大概是23.91%啦\n然後這樣的GDP是11.2那我是希望說我們大概還在落後國家這邊人家最旁邊的西班牙已經到55%了好 那我們看下一張那其實如果就以稅收來看的話其實從2000年也是2000年到現在已經20年的時間其實它這個所謂的我們social contribution指的是我們薪資所得或者是說雇主給的那些錢\n去給我們社會福利這邊的話其實是constant它不會什麼有太大的改變所以我們要去想這些財源要從哪裡來從這20年來其實都是差不多的都是這個樣子我們看下一頁\n其實有一個很新興的一個想法就是當然在國外已經不是新興所謂的碳稅其實可以作為社會福利的一個來源可是我看了我們的氣候變遷因應法的第三三條所謂的用途裡面沒有講到以後可以作為我們社會福利這個部分那我就去查了這個資料就是說在\n其實我們歐美很多 芬蘭1990年就開始有碳費其實我們碳費是多少 你知道嗎 部長 公告的價格一公噸是300塊 那我就舉瑞士的例子好了在2008年的時候 他訂的是474塊台幣過了大概10年以後 2022年\n他漲了10倍 現在是他要付4744塊的碳費那結果他把這個那麼大筆的收入呢他就直接所謂的lumsum transfer也就是一次性的支付給社福基金三分之二把所有的那個所得大概是12億瑞士法郎\n給我們所謂的health care rate這樣所以就是說其實從碳費這個部分以後的這個溫室氣體管理基金其實以後要有一個去修正它的用途其實可以用來做這樣的一個運用因為我們知道像看到這個一個表格這是立陶宛的表格他就說了其實他作為碳費作為一個財政資源的時候他可以幫忙\n百分之八十以上的人到八這邊到了零界點 到了零這個是以十單位所以這是百分之八十的意思也就是說碳費可以作為社會福利的一個來源的時候它可以照顧絕大多數的人所以請以後再做\n我們的財政規劃的時候可以把碳稅納入進來這樣你會減輕很多的負擔請部長多多去想一想謝謝我想感謝委員引經濟田的國外的經驗我想這個是我們未來來努力的方向謝謝謝謝盧委員最標準謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.005 --> 00:13.746\n主席有請部長部長辛苦了我們先就我們偏鄉的篩檢來問幾個問題那我想知道看到你們的報告是說異常率是6.2%那30萬人大概是一年裡面的量嗎\n\n00:36.259 --> 01:01.076\n這是從去年看委員報告這是從我們去年的7月1號開始實施到今年的4月17號還沒有還沒有滿一年我想知道這30萬的普及率是多少我們針對我們所有的小朋友來著大概我們全國統計起來大概46%左右所以還沒有連一半都不到嗎還沒有還沒有我查了一下期刊就是說2020的期刊小兒課的\n\n01:02.037 --> 01:25.727\n他在做一個所謂的這個developmentalscreenchart這個17項的這個針對0到3歲的他發現developmentaldelay也就是說發展遲緩的這個異常率其實是高達11.25可是我們的6.25我覺得我們是太低估了所以是不是我們做的項目沒有到這17項呢還是說我們的項目裡面有些遺漏了呢\n\n01:26.647 --> 01:42.972\n因為我們這些你看我們從上面開始就是說可以走階梯可以去抓東西可以去怎麼樣去回應一些單字其實這些當然我每個年齡層的篩檢表可能不一樣可是我是覺得我們的6.2太低了\n\n01:44.292 --> 01:56.861\n如果說我們太低估這個發展遲緩的話其實會有很大的問題所以畢竟國際期刊認為是11.25的話我覺得我們那個差距不能太大所以說不定我們的篩檢的這個部分是要嚴謹一點是不是\n\n01:57.743 --> 01:59.304\n我們知道剛才有很多人講到關於費用的問題\n\n02:16.616 --> 02:30.189\n那費用一次篩檢是400塊對不對轉整費是250塊那如果就基層衛生所在做的話我來實際告訴你他醫生可以拿到多少錢醫生可以拿到如果只有一位醫師的話他可以拿到252塊那護理人員的話是\n\n02:35.350 --> 02:56.204\n14块如果是10个护理人员的话因为我们按照他的那个所谓的7030降分的话所以要这么这么辛苦的工作做了17项然后护理人员可以拿到是14元然后如果是转诊的话其实转诊其实都是护士在做嘛就护士可以拿到的是多少钱7块钱\n\n02:57.392 --> 03:13.063\n所以你就知道說這個部分其實可以指定給施作的那名護理人員或是醫師然後轉整的是指定把這250塊給那名護理人員才會實際的增加我們護理人員的辛勞對不對\n\n03:15.180 --> 03:38.118\n剛才就黃秀芳委員講的那個疫苗100塊護理人員可以拿到多少錢我這樣子來算是2.7塊2.7毛而已所以其實我們不是說注射費很便宜是實際分給醫護人員實在是太少少之又少而且是你是在偏鄉地區服務的話因為他沒有所謂的偏鄉的加急\n\n03:39.019 --> 04:04.509\n因為這些分配是全國一致性的所以這些部分其實你們都要去去考慮一下可以嗎謝謝那個牽扯到那個衛生所的獎勵兼分配辦法我們再來討論看看我想我想盧委員小弟我跟那個吳市長都是衛生所主任出身的啦所以其實你們都可以馬上就可以了解這個分配的辦法的確如果你沒有specify到說這個工作\n\n04:05.749 --> 04:28.447\n是這一格互理同仁那當然有十格互理同仁分下去但是問題是你分到這個你別人做的工作也會分到你這裡來是沒有錯啦只是說就概算是這樣實際上是太低太低了所以我的意思是說應該有可以想到更好的辦法但是我們絕對鼓勵偏鄉就是我們來研擬看看偏鄉有沒有特別獎勵的方式這樣\n\n04:29.307 --> 04:57.700\n好那我們進入到下一個主題就是社會福利的部分就是我看看我們現在的所謂的對稅出我們真正佔的比例是多少我看我們台灣大概是多少你知道嗎第三張第三張對這個現在OECD國家在2019年的時候大概是45%左右就是說佔了他的稅出就是他的比例那我們台灣現在是多少知道嗎部長\n\n04:59.741 --> 05:09.717\n所謂的社會福利SocialprotectionSocialprotection其實他就是指的是社會福利啦我們有沒有大概我們我剛查了一下台灣大概是23.91%啦\n\n05:12.150 --> 05:40.568\n然後這樣的GDP是11.2那我是希望說我們大概還在落後國家這邊人家最旁邊的西班牙已經到55%了好那我們看下一張那其實如果就以稅收來看的話其實從2000年也是2000年到現在已經20年的時間其實它這個所謂的我們socialcontribution指的是我們薪資所得或者是說雇主給的那些錢\n\n05:42.250 --> 05:55.329\n去給我們社會福利這邊的話其實是constant它不會什麼有太大的改變所以我們要去想這些財源要從哪裡來從這20年來其實都是差不多的都是這個樣子我們看下一頁\n\n05:57.622 --> 06:19.503\n其實有一個很新興的一個想法就是當然在國外已經不是新興所謂的碳稅其實可以作為社會福利的一個來源可是我看了我們的氣候變遷因應法的第三三條所謂的用途裡面沒有講到以後可以作為我們社會福利這個部分那我就去查了這個資料就是說在\n\n06:21.380 --> 06:38.585\n其實我們歐美很多芬蘭1990年就開始有碳費其實我們碳費是多少你知道嗎部長公告的價格一公噸是300塊那我就舉瑞士的例子好了在2008年的時候他訂的是474塊台幣過了大概10年以後2022年\n\n06:43.649 --> 07:04.044\n他漲了10倍現在是他要付4744塊的碳費那結果他把這個那麼大筆的收入呢他就直接所謂的lumsumtransfer也就是一次性的支付給社福基金三分之二把所有的那個所得大概是12億瑞士法郎\n\n07:06.706 --> 07:34.024\n給我們所謂的healthcarerate這樣所以就是說其實從碳費這個部分以後的這個溫室氣體管理基金其實以後要有一個去修正它的用途其實可以用來做這樣的一個運用因為我們知道像看到這個一個表格這是立陶宛的表格他就說了其實他作為碳費作為一個財政資源的時候他可以幫忙\n\n07:34.985 --> 07:53.638\n百分之八十以上的人到八這邊到了零界點到了零這個是以十單位所以這是百分之八十的意思也就是說碳費可以作為社會福利的一個來源的時候它可以照顧絕大多數的人所以請以後再做\n\n07:55.018 --> 08:14.366\n我們的財政規劃的時候可以把碳稅納入進來這樣你會減輕很多的負擔請部長多多去想一想謝謝我想感謝委員引經濟田的國外的經驗我想這個是我們未來來努力的方向謝謝謝謝盧委員最標準謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.005,"end":13.746,"text":"主席有請部長部長辛苦了我們先就我們偏鄉的篩檢來問幾個問題那我想知道看到你們的報告是說異常率是6.2%那30萬人大概是一年裡面的量嗎"},{"start":36.259,"end":61.076,"text":"這是從去年 看委員報告這是從我們去年的7月1號開始實施到今年的4月17號還沒有還沒有滿一年我想知道這30萬的普及率是多少我們針對我們所有的小朋友來著大概我們全國統計起來大概46%左右所以還沒有連一半都不到嗎還沒有還沒有我查了一下期刊就是說2020的期刊小兒課的"},{"start":62.037,"end":85.727,"text":"他在做一個所謂的這個developmental screen chart這個17項的這個針對0到3歲的他發現developmental 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對不對"},{"start":195.18,"end":218.118,"text":"剛才就黃秀芳委員講的那個疫苗100塊護理人員可以拿到多少錢我這樣子來算是2.7塊2.7毛而已所以其實我們不是說注射費很便宜是實際分給醫護人員實在是太少少之又少而且是你是在偏鄉地區服務的話因為他沒有所謂的偏鄉的加急"},{"start":219.019,"end":244.509,"text":"因為這些分配是全國一致性的所以這些部分其實你們都要去去考慮一下可以嗎謝謝那個牽扯到那個衛生所的獎勵兼分配辦法我們再來討論看看我想我想盧委員小弟我跟那個吳市長都是衛生所主任出身的啦所以其實你們都可以馬上就可以了解這個分配的辦法的確如果你沒有specify到說這個工作"},{"start":245.749,"end":268.447,"text":"是這一格互理同仁那當然有十格互理同仁分下去但是問題是你分到這個你別人做的工作也會分到你這裡來是沒有錯啦只是說就概算是這樣實際上是太低太低了所以我的意思是說應該有可以想到更好的辦法但是我們絕對鼓勵偏鄉就是我們來研擬看看偏鄉有沒有特別獎勵的方式這樣"},{"start":269.307,"end":297.7,"text":"好那我們進入到下一個主題就是社會福利的部分就是我看看我們現在的所謂的對稅出我們真正佔的比例是多少我看我們台灣大概是多少你知道嗎第三張第三張對這個現在OECD國家在2019年的時候大概是45%左右就是說佔了他的稅出就是他的比例那我們台灣現在是多少知道嗎部長"},{"start":299.741,"end":309.717,"text":"所謂的社會福利Social protectionSocial protection其實他就是指的是社會福利啦我們有沒有大概我們我剛查了一下台灣大概是23.91%啦"},{"start":312.15,"end":340.568,"text":"然後這樣的GDP是11.2那我是希望說我們大概還在落後國家這邊人家最旁邊的西班牙已經到55%了好 那我們看下一張那其實如果就以稅收來看的話其實從2000年也是2000年到現在已經20年的時間其實它這個所謂的我們social contribution指的是我們薪資所得或者是說雇主給的那些錢"},{"start":342.25,"end":355.329,"text":"去給我們社會福利這邊的話其實是constant它不會什麼有太大的改變所以我們要去想這些財源要從哪裡來從這20年來其實都是差不多的都是這個樣子我們看下一頁"},{"start":357.622,"end":379.503,"text":"其實有一個很新興的一個想法就是當然在國外已經不是新興所謂的碳稅其實可以作為社會福利的一個來源可是我看了我們的氣候變遷因應法的第三三條所謂的用途裡面沒有講到以後可以作為我們社會福利這個部分那我就去查了這個資料就是說在"},{"start":381.38,"end":398.585,"text":"其實我們歐美很多 芬蘭1990年就開始有碳費其實我們碳費是多少 你知道嗎 部長 公告的價格一公噸是300塊 那我就舉瑞士的例子好了在2008年的時候 他訂的是474塊台幣過了大概10年以後 2022年"},{"start":403.649,"end":424.044,"text":"他漲了10倍 現在是他要付4744塊的碳費那結果他把這個那麼大筆的收入呢他就直接所謂的lumsum transfer也就是一次性的支付給社福基金三分之二把所有的那個所得大概是12億瑞士法郎"},{"start":426.706,"end":454.024,"text":"給我們所謂的health care rate這樣所以就是說其實從碳費這個部分以後的這個溫室氣體管理基金其實以後要有一個去修正它的用途其實可以用來做這樣的一個運用因為我們知道像看到這個一個表格這是立陶宛的表格他就說了其實他作為碳費作為一個財政資源的時候他可以幫忙"},{"start":454.985,"end":473.638,"text":"百分之八十以上的人到八這邊到了零界點 到了零這個是以十單位所以這是百分之八十的意思也就是說碳費可以作為社會福利的一個來源的時候它可以照顧絕大多數的人所以請以後再做"},{"start":475.018,"end":494.366,"text":"我們的財政規劃的時候可以把碳稅納入進來這樣你會減輕很多的負擔請部長多多去想一想謝謝我想感謝委員引經濟田的國外的經驗我想這個是我們未來來努力的方向謝謝謝謝盧委員最標準謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1099,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（12時37分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好！"],["盧委員縣一：好，部長辛苦了！先就偏鄉的篩檢來問幾個問題，我看到你們的報告是說異常率6.2%，然後30萬人，那個是一年裡面的量嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：跟委員報告，這是從去年7月1日開始實施，到今年的4月17日。"],["盧委員縣一：還沒有滿一年。"],["吳署長昭軍：還沒、還沒。"],["盧委員縣一：我想知道這30萬的普及率是多少，針對所有的小朋友來講。"],["吳署長昭軍：我們全國統計起來大概46%左右。"],["盧委員縣一：連一半都不到嘛！"],["吳署長昭軍：還沒有、還沒有，持續在增加當中。"],["盧委員縣一：我查了一下期刊，2020的期刊，小兒科的，它在做這個developmental screening chart 17項，針對0到3歲，它發現developmental delay，也就是說發展遲緩的異常率其實是高達11.25%，可是我們是6.2%，我覺得我們太低估了，是不是我們做的項目沒有到這17項呢？還是說我們的項目裡面有些遺漏了呢？你看，我們從上面開始，可以走階梯啦！可以去抓東西啦！可以怎麼樣去回應一些單字，當然每個年齡層的篩檢表可能不一樣，可是我是覺得我們的6.2%太低囉！如果我們太低估發展遲緩的話，其實會有很大的問題，畢竟國際期刊認為是11.25%，我覺得我們的差距不能太大，所以說不定我們篩檢的這個部分是要嚴謹一點，是不是？"],["吳署長昭軍：非常謝謝，因為WHO告訴我們全球的盛行率大概6到8%，這個期刊是比較高一點，我們會去瞭解詳細的內容是怎麼樣，我們後續會去監測，謝謝。"],["盧委員縣一：OK，我可以把期刊的來源告知署長。","我們知道剛才有很多人講到關於費用的問題，一次篩檢的費用是400元，對不對？轉診費是250元。如果就基層衛生所在做的話，我來實際告訴你醫生可以拿到多少錢，如果只有一位醫師的話，他可以拿到252元，護理人員是14元，如果是10個護理人員的話，因為我們按照它所謂的70、30這樣分的話，這麼辛苦的工作，做了17項，然後護理人員可以拿到的是14元，如果是轉診的話，其實轉診都是護士在做，結果護士可以拿到多少錢？7塊錢。所以，這個部分其實可以指定給施作的那名護理人員或是醫師，然後轉診的時候指定把這250塊給那名護理人員，才會實際的增加護理人員的薪酬，對不對？就剛才黃秀芳委員講的疫苗，100塊護理人員可以拿到多少錢？我這樣子來算是兩點七塊，10個人分每個人2.7毛而已喔！我們不是說注射費很便宜，而是實際分給醫護人員的實在是太少，少之又少，而且在偏鄉地區服務的話沒有所謂的偏鄉加給，因為這些費用是全國一致性的，這些部分其實你們都要去考慮一下，可以嗎？"],["吳署長昭軍：這個牽扯到衛生所的獎勵金分配辦法，我們再來討論看看。"],["邱部長泰源：我想盧委員、小弟我跟吳署長都是衛生所主任出身的啦……"],["盧委員縣一：對，所以其實你們都馬上就可以理解。"],["邱部長泰源：所以我們了解它的分配辦法，的確，如果你沒有specify到這個工作是這一個護理同仁，那當然有10個護理同仁分下去，但是問題是你分到這個，別人做的工作也會分到你這裡來，所以這個就是看要怎麼算的問題。"],["盧委員縣一：是啊，是沒有錯啦，只是就概算是這樣實在是太低、太低了，所以我的意思是說，應該可以想到更好的辦法。"],["邱部長泰源：好，但是我們絕對鼓勵偏鄉，是不是我們來研議看看偏鄉有沒有特別的獎勵方式。"],["盧委員縣一：好，我們進入下一個主題，看看現在社會福利的部分在歲出當中真正占的比例是多少，我們臺灣大概是多少，你知道嗎？請看第三張，OECD國家在2019年的時候，社會福利支出占其歲出的比例大概是45%左右，我們臺灣現在是多少，你知道嗎？部長，所謂的社會福利（social protection），其實它指的就是社會福利啦。"],["邱部長泰源：social protection的範圍，我們有沒有……"],["盧委員縣一：我剛剛查了一下，臺灣大概是23.91%，然後占GDP是11.2，我們大概還在落後國家這邊，西班牙已經到大概55%。","我們看下一張，如果就以稅收來看的話，從2000年到現在已經20年的時間，所謂的social contribution指的是我們的薪資所得，或是說雇主給的那些錢去做社會福利的支出其實是constant，它沒有什麼太大的改變，所以我們要去想，這些財源要從哪裡來，這20年來其實都是差不多的，都是這個樣子。","我們看下一頁，有一個新興的想法，當然在國外已經不是新興的，就是碳稅可以作為社會福利的一個來源，可是我看我們的氣候變遷因應法第三十三條所規定的用途，其中沒有明定以後可以用於社會福利這部分。我去查了相關的資料，其實我們落後歐美很多，芬蘭在1990年就開始有碳費，結果我們的碳費是多少，你知道嗎？部長，公告的價格1公噸是300塊。","我舉瑞士為例，在2008年的時候，他的碳費是474塊臺幣，過了大概10年以後，2022年他的碳費漲了10倍，現在1公噸要付4,744塊的碳費，結果他把這麼大筆的收入就直接用所謂的lump sum transfer，也就是一次性的支付給社福基金，把全部所得的三分之二大概是12億瑞士法郎給所謂的health care insurance。這個例子就是說碳費這個部分，我們以後要去修正溫室氣體管理基金的用途，可以將它做這樣的運用。","我們看到像這個表格，這是立陶宛的表格，它就說碳費作為一個財政資源的時候，它可以幫忙百分之八十以上的人，因為表格上從0到8為臨界點，這是以10為單位，所以這是百分之八十的意思，也就是說碳費作為社會福利來源的時候，它可以照顧絕大多數的人，所以請你們以後在做財政規劃的時候，可以把碳稅納入，這樣你會減輕很多負擔，請部長多多去想一想。謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：好，感謝委員引經據典引用國外的經驗，我想這是我們未來努力的方向，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝盧委員，謝謝部長。","繼續我們請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","葛如鈞","劉建國","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","黃秀芳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","陳菁徽","盧縣一","李坤城","陳培瑜","張雅琳","莊瑞雄","楊曜","陳瑩","林楚茵","林德福"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、財政部次長就「國家社會福利政策財源檢討及偏鄉兒童發展篩檢執行情\n形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00004"}}}