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\"end\": 836.4, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"凌\", \"start\": 836.4, \"end\": 836.9, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"駕\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 836.9, \"end\": 837.08, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 837.08, \"end\": 837.1, \"score\": 0.08}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:07,615\n那個謝主席麻煩請那個威福部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:18,073 --> 00:00:36,352\n部長好我調整一下我要問的這個問題的順序因為剛剛剛好連續前面兩位委員都是在談這個離島的這個醫療那當然我來自台東我還是一樣也要關心這個剛剛莊瑞雄委員提到的這個綠島的這個問題\n\n3\n00:00:39,975 --> 00:01:03,381\n那當然這個綠島居民跟這個台灣居民一樣都是他們應該都要有這個享有同樣醫療照顧的權利那他們的這生命跟健康也不應該因為距離而被延誤所以目前那這個衛生所是這個整座島上唯一可以仰賴這個急救醫療的據點\n\n4\n00:01:04,981 --> 00:01:24,268\n那如今呢三人輪班制的醫師缺額懸缺兩年了只有靠這個台東馬街一個好心的這個醫師來支援那現在這位醫師六月即將離職所以整個這個綠島的衛生所24小時的服務可能中斷那當然我提這個\n\n5\n00:01:25,528 --> 00:01:39,397\n例子這個今日的綠島可能是明日的澎湖或者明日的哪一個外島都是一樣的所以我想切入正題我想今天這個醫師他這個6月份即將離職然後這個懸缺補不上這個問題\n\n6\n00:01:48,744 --> 00:02:11,213\n顯示了幾個就是說當然凸顯了就是說整個醫療制度在很多的這個不足那特別是我們對於這個偏鄉離島地區這個醫護人員的這個誘因是一個很大的問題那我想就這個短期面臨到的這個問題我就直接問你們\n\n7\n00:02:13,554 --> 00:02:34,306\n因為我覺得我實在沒有辦法容忍說你們還要等到什麼時候才可以補這個缺額我只是在這裡想要要求說部長你們能不能立即啟動緊急人力調度來應變這樣的一個狀況有沒有什麼樣的機制你們可不可以立即啟動怎麼樣的機制來彌補來遞補這樣子的一個六月份即將發生的狀況\n\n8\n00:02:42,443 --> 00:02:56,231\n謝謝委員這個也是我們一直在想用各種方式第一個當然過去都是用獎勵讓他薪水高一點那是不是有可能這個又牽涉到整體\n\n9\n00:02:57,432 --> 00:03:11,851\n整體的那種新資的就是說所有的偏鄉離島山地離島是不是都要做處理還是說因為缺了這個就再補這個這個我們會去分析利弊第二個就是\n\n10\n00:03:12,652 --> 00:03:36,958\n是不是請台東的醫院我們給他多一點融合我想你現在講的都緩不濟急我現在就簡單的問六月就要缺人了我們現在是目前有跟衛生局在談立即啟動備援方案其實衛生局是負責當地醫療資源的調配但是如果他需要怎麼樣我們當然中央一定來支持不管是\n\n11\n00:03:37,958 --> 00:03:53,098\n要融合啦那基本上整個當地的資源衛生局其實是要負責去調配啦所以但是有人關心這個我覺得是真的是重要所以我們\n\n12\n00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:15,065\n其實也一直持續在跟衛生局看看哪裡可以調人力你什麼時候可以回覆本席就是你們如果目前他們正在調度那你們是不是可以更積極來協助我想我們回去請照護師、醫事師相關的我們一起來開個會\n\n13\n00:04:22,869 --> 00:04:41,101\n馬上來找有效的方法立即來解決這個問題對啊你們就是要想窮盡一切的方式趕快來補齊嘛因為我想部長你應該沒有辦法忍受就是任何一個離島在半夜有病患有什麼狀況卻找不到這個醫生\n\n14\n00:04:44,683 --> 00:05:09,520\n所以這個就是你急迫需要面臨的功課啊好我們立即啟動所有的資源跟辦法來解決你不要立即啟動結果到六月份還一樣沒有人我們一定全力以赴你什麼時候可以給本席回覆你立即啟動你們現在開始演繹因為我一定要給你一些壓力啊不然大家就拖我們在和時間賽跑\n\n15\n00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:38,567\n因為如果是六月要離開我們當然是希望在六月前有的力氣補他這樣子對所以我是說你們現在啟動機制你這個機制你一定要在六月前確認你啟動之後你什麼時候可以回覆我們兩個禮拜以內來完成會議的一個可能有可行性提出方案然後來進行這過程當中也會到委員那邊做報告\n\n16\n00:05:39,192 --> 00:06:05,992\n好謝謝那我希望兩個禮拜之後可以有一個圓滿的答覆那我們就再等你們兩個禮拜我想這個問題所凸顯的這個短中長期的問題或者我們應該做一些修法或一些專案的規劃我們則日再來討論那另外呢我要再請另外請那個國建署署長也一起上來那我先請教部長是\n\n17\n00:06:07,274 --> 00:06:15,034\n加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議需要三分之二委員的同意才能通過是不是這樣\n\n18\n00:06:17,436 --> 00:06:33,767\n兩年前的規定那個時候的辦法就是這樣子規定那辦法嘛辦法要點是這樣子嘛對要點要點那好我們繼續齁那今年二月份這個國建署針對加熱菸的健康風險評估審查會議貴屬的大家眾所皆知的這位\n\n19\n00:06:40,732 --> 00:07:00,313\n地下甲署長我們的甲副署長在會議開始時他就自行的這個宣布他突然這樣宣布就是說通過風險評估須獲得三分之二委員同意那他表示呢此違法規定\n\n20\n00:07:02,861 --> 00:07:25,980\n但是在會議開始之前沒有任何委員曾經被告知這樣子的一個規範那我簡單跟大家報告一下2月15日出席14人同意8人有8票那不同意的有6票那因為主席才是就是這個\n\n21\n00:07:29,332 --> 00:07:58,295\n就是說他沒有達到這個法定通過的這個人數三分之二所以當然那一次就沒有通過了3月10號出席15人同意10人然後不同意有5人所以看起來有到三分之二但是他還是不通過因為他不含本數就是他就沒有超過三分之二所以一樣這個會議又不通過了\n\n22\n00:07:59,256 --> 00:08:26,659\n那我想要請問就是說明明你們在112年有訂了這個指定菸品的健康風險評估審查辦法沒有三分之二委員同意的規定然後副署長假副署長卻這樣子的宣布那這樣子的法規的規定依據在哪裡可不可以說明一下兩年前那個時候的制定方式可能吳署長比較清楚\n\n23\n00:08:29,097 --> 00:08:34,485\n請吳署長說明一下因為兩年前應該部長還跟我一樣在立法院當同事\n\n24\n00:08:37,735 --> 00:08:59,982\n我們有一個指定藥品健康風險設置要點那在裡面有規定要三分之二的委員出席大會才能做出這個會議然後有三分之二才能夠通過才能夠當成協議所以主責這個跟法規會一起主責推動這樣子的一個規定的是哪一位是甲副署長是吧我他是黃岩組的督導的長官\n\n25\n00:09:06,425 --> 00:09:28,986\n好謝謝這樣很清楚那要點或辦法能不能抵觸法律可以嗎部長一般來說好那我順便提一下吼我國的會議規範是內政部訂定頒布全國的標準第56條很清楚的規定通過\n\n26\n00:09:30,407 --> 00:09:59,469\n以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者也就是說會議有採取表決之方式就一定要以多數贊同者的意見作為通過的依據這也是我們國家所有一切的民主的基礎我想在這次二月中加熱菸的健康風險評估審查14位委員我剛講了有8位通過那6位委員不同意\n\n27\n00:10:00,690 --> 00:10:16,472\n那就是八位同意然後六位不同意那大家也都在那會議充分的表達了意見依照我們內政部所訂定的會議規範應該要根據專家及委員的意見予以同意開放\n\n28\n00:10:17,967 --> 00:10:33,008\n如今啊衛福部你們縱容假副署長凌駕在署長跟部長之上公然以行政手段打臉多數的委員他們的意見然後誤導大家\n\n29\n00:10:34,830 --> 00:10:57,925\n來這個不遵守會議審查的規則讓這個審查委員留於可以操控的這個形式然後也讓部長您遲遲不敢決定去執行加熱菸的管理也造成今天我們的現況就是加熱菸的這些走私犯非常的猖獗換句話說2月15日那天的會議\n\n30\n00:11:00,087 --> 00:11:22,083\n同意8票同意8票6票反對其實他就已經是通過了所以我在這裡拿出法條很清楚的攤在這邊讓你們做依據我想前面的那些簡直就是違法亂紀自己在那邊惡搞亂搞嘛所以\n\n31\n00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:41,739\n而且就是完全毫不掩飾的喔主導一切我覺得喔賈淑莉副署長衛福部你們應該要立即停止賈淑莉副署長擔任國建署地下署長一職並移送監察院\n\n32\n00:11:44,278 --> 00:12:13,346\n部長我剛剛提的把我們的這個56條都翻給你看了您現在清楚了嗎清楚了好兩次審查會議的表決都是多數同意所以請你才是依照內政部頒布的會議規範第56條通過以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者以這一條去才是讓國建署立即宣布加熱菸通過可以嗎\n\n33\n00:12:19,702 --> 00:12:43,968\n因為我不是法律專家所以真的要請法規來給我們一點解釋有沒有在現場他們可以解釋為什麼辦法可以凌駕於這個會議我們第56條之上然後改成三分之二同意才可以還要超過\n\n34\n00:12:48,440 --> 00:13:05,052\n包委員我想謝謝你的提醒跟指導,我想我們馬上去請教法律的專家,看看是不是說我們要依刑\n\n35\n00:13:08,806 --> 00:13:34,332\n我想我今天的質詢有兩個訴求第一個就是內政部頒布的這個我們的會議規範第56條讓你們做依據怎麼樣表決多數決到底要多少第二個就是在我們這麼長的時間這麼多的混亂這麼多的走私然後我們少收了這麼多的稅收\n\n36\n00:13:35,752 --> 00:13:57,100\n最應該負責的人不應該輕輕放過因為這個是很可惡的事情簡直是違法亂紀所以這個你們依據法規好好調查該送監察院就應該送監察院那署長你也委屈了啦那請你好好做署長不要隨便被人家凌駕之上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t7615\t那個 謝主席 麻煩請那個 威福部長委員好\n18073\t36352\t部長好 我調整一下我要問的這個問題的順序因為剛剛剛好連續前面兩位委員都是在談這個離島的這個醫療那當然我來自台東我還是一樣也要關心這個剛剛莊瑞雄委員提到的這個綠島的這個問題\n39975\t63381\t那當然這個綠島居民跟這個台灣居民一樣都是他們應該都要有這個享有同樣醫療照顧的權利那他們的這生命跟健康也不應該因為距離而被延誤所以目前那這個衛生所是這個整座島上唯一可以仰賴這個急救醫療的據點\n64981\t84268\t那如今呢三人輪班制的醫師缺額懸缺兩年了只有靠這個台東馬街一個好心的這個醫師來支援那現在這位醫師六月即將離職所以整個這個綠島的衛生所24小時的服務可能中斷那當然我提這個\n85528\t99397\t例子這個今日的綠島可能是明日的澎湖或者明日的哪一個外島都是一樣的所以我想切入正題我想今天這個醫師他這個6月份即將離職然後這個懸缺補不上這個問題\n108744\t131213\t顯示了幾個就是說當然凸顯了就是說整個醫療制度在很多的這個不足那特別是我們對於這個偏鄉離島地區這個醫護人員的這個誘因是一個很大的問題那我想就這個短期面臨到的這個問題我就直接問你們\n133554\t154306\t因為我覺得我實在沒有辦法容忍說你們還要等到什麼時候才可以補這個缺額我只是在這裡想要要求說部長你們能不能立即啟動緊急人力調度來應變這樣的一個狀況有沒有什麼樣的機制你們可不可以立即啟動怎麼樣的機制來彌補來遞補這樣子的一個六月份即將發生的狀況\n162443\t176231\t謝謝委員 這個也是我們一直在想用各種方式第一個當然過去都是用獎勵讓他薪水高一點那是不是有可能這個又牽涉到整體\n177432\t191851\t整體的那種新資的就是說所有的偏鄉離島山地離島是不是都要做處理還是說因為缺了這個就再補這個這個我們會去分析利弊第二個就是\n192652\t216958\t是不是請台東的醫院我們給他多一點融合我想你現在講的都緩不濟急我現在就簡單的問六月就要缺人了我們現在是目前有跟衛生局在談立即啟動備援方案其實衛生局是負責當地醫療資源的調配但是如果他需要怎麼樣我們當然中央一定來支持不管是\n217958\t233098\t要融合啦那基本上整個當地的資源衛生局其實是要負責去調配啦所以但是有人關心這個我覺得是真的是重要所以我們\n236600\t255065\t其實也一直持續在跟衛生局看看哪裡可以調人力你什麼時候可以回覆本席就是你們如果目前他們正在調度那你們是不是可以更積極來協助我想我們回去請照護師、醫事師相關的我們一起來開個會\n262869\t281101\t馬上來找有效的方法立即來解決這個問題對啊你們就是要想窮盡一切的方式趕快來補齊嘛因為我想部長你應該沒有辦法忍受就是任何一個離島在半夜有病患有什麼狀況卻找不到這個醫生\n284683\t309520\t所以這個就是你急迫需要面臨的功課啊好 我們立即啟動所有的資源跟辦法來解決你不要立即啟動 結果到六月份還一樣沒有人我們一定全力以赴你什麼時候可以給本席回覆你立即啟動 你們現在開始演繹因為我一定要給你一些壓力啊不然大家就拖我們在和時間賽跑\n311840\t338567\t因為如果是六月要離開我們當然是希望在六月前有的力氣補他這樣子對 所以我是說你們現在啟動機制你這個機制你一定要在六月前確認你啟動之後你什麼時候可以回覆我們兩個禮拜以內來完成會議的一個可能有可行性提出方案然後來進行這過程當中也會到委員那邊做報告\n339192\t365992\t好 謝謝 那我希望兩個禮拜之後可以有一個圓滿的答覆那我們就再等你們兩個禮拜我想這個問題所凸顯的這個短中長期的問題或者我們應該做一些修法或一些專案的規劃我們則日再來討論那另外呢我要再請另外請那個國建署署長也一起上來那我先請教部長是\n367274\t375034\t加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議需要三分之二委員的同意才能通過是不是這樣\n377436\t393767\t兩年前的規定那個時候的辦法就是這樣子規定那辦法嘛 辦法要點是這樣子嘛對要點要點那好我們繼續齁那今年二月份這個國建署針對加熱菸的健康風險評估審查會議貴屬的大家眾所皆知的這位\n400732\t420313\t地下甲署長我們的甲副署長在會議開始時他就自行的這個宣布他突然這樣宣布就是說通過風險評估須獲得三分之二委員同意那他表示呢此違法規定\n422861\t445980\t但是在會議開始之前沒有任何委員曾經被告知這樣子的一個規範那我簡單跟大家報告一下2月15日出席14人同意8人有8票那不同意的有6票那因為主席才是就是這個\n449332\t478295\t就是說他沒有達到這個法定通過的這個人數三分之二所以當然那一次就沒有通過了3月10號出席15人同意10人然後不同意有5人所以看起來有到三分之二但是他還是不通過因為他不含本數就是他就沒有超過三分之二所以一樣這個會議又不通過了\n479256\t506659\t那我想要請問就是說明明你們在112年有訂了這個指定菸品的健康風險評估審查辦法沒有三分之二委員同意的規定然後副署長假副署長卻這樣子的宣布那這樣子的法規的規定依據在哪裡可不可以說明一下兩年前那個時候的制定方式可能吳署長比較清楚\n509097\t514485\t請吳署長說明一下因為兩年前應該部長還跟我一樣在立法院當同事\n517735\t539982\t我們有一個指定藥品健康風險設置要點那在裡面有規定要三分之二的委員出席大會才能做出這個會議然後有三分之二才能夠通過才能夠當成協議所以主責這個跟法規會一起主責推動這樣子的一個規定的是哪一位是甲副署長是吧我他是黃岩組的督導的長官\n546425\t568986\t好謝謝這樣很清楚那要點或辦法能不能抵觸法律可以嗎部長一般來說好那我順便提一下吼我國的會議規範是內政部訂定頒布全國的標準第56條很清楚的規定通過\n570407\t599469\t以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者也就是說會議有採取表決之方式就一定要以多數贊同者的意見作為通過的依據這也是我們國家所有一切的民主的基礎我想在這次二月中加熱菸的健康風險評估審查14位委員我剛講了有8位通過那6位委員不同意\n600690\t616472\t那就是八位同意然後六位不同意那大家也都在那會議充分的表達了意見依照我們內政部所訂定的會議規範應該要根據專家及委員的意見予以同意開放\n617967\t633008\t如今啊衛福部你們縱容假副署長凌駕在署長跟部長之上公然以行政手段打臉多數的委員他們的意見然後誤導大家\n634830\t657925\t來這個不遵守會議審查的規則讓這個審查委員留於可以操控的這個形式然後也讓部長您遲遲不敢決定去執行加熱菸的管理也造成今天我們的現況就是加熱菸的這些走私犯非常的猖獗換句話說2月15日那天的會議\n660087\t682083\t同意8票同意8票6票反對其實他就已經是通過了所以我在這裡拿出法條很清楚的攤在這邊讓你們做依據我想前面的那些簡直就是違法亂紀自己在那邊惡搞亂搞嘛所以\n683120\t701739\t而且 就是完全毫不掩飾的喔 主導一切我覺得喔 賈淑莉副署長 衛福部你們應該要立即停止賈淑莉副署長擔任國建署地下署長一職 並移送監察院\n704278\t733346\t部長我剛剛提的把我們的這個56條都翻給你看了您現在清楚了嗎清楚了好兩次審查會議的表決都是多數同意所以請你才是依照內政部頒布的會議規範第56條通過以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者以這一條去才是讓國建署立即宣布加熱菸通過可以嗎\n739702\t763968\t因為我不是法律專家所以真的要請法規來給我們一點解釋有沒有在現場他們可以解釋為什麼辦法可以凌駕於這個會議我們第56條之上然後改成三分之二同意才可以還要超過\n768440\t785052\t包委員我想謝謝你的提醒跟指導,我想我們馬上去請教法律的專家,看看是不是說我們要依刑\n788806\t814332\t我想我今天的質詢有兩個訴求第一個就是內政部頒布的這個我們的會議規範第56條讓你們做依據怎麼樣表決多數決到底要多少第二個就是在我們這麼長的時間這麼多的混亂這麼多的走私然後我們少收了這麼多的稅收\n815752\t837100\t最應該負責的人不應該輕輕放過因為這個是很可惡的事情簡直是違法亂紀所以這個你們依據法規好好調查該送監察院就應該送監察院那署長你也委屈了啦那請你好好做署長不要隨便被人家凌駕之上謝謝\n","txt":"那個 謝主席 麻煩請那個 威福部長委員好\n部長好 我調整一下我要問的這個問題的順序因為剛剛剛好連續前面兩位委員都是在談這個離島的這個醫療那當然我來自台東我還是一樣也要關心這個剛剛莊瑞雄委員提到的這個綠島的這個問題\n那當然這個綠島居民跟這個台灣居民一樣都是他們應該都要有這個享有同樣醫療照顧的權利那他們的這生命跟健康也不應該因為距離而被延誤所以目前那這個衛生所是這個整座島上唯一可以仰賴這個急救醫療的據點\n那如今呢三人輪班制的醫師缺額懸缺兩年了只有靠這個台東馬街一個好心的這個醫師來支援那現在這位醫師六月即將離職所以整個這個綠島的衛生所24小時的服務可能中斷那當然我提這個\n例子這個今日的綠島可能是明日的澎湖或者明日的哪一個外島都是一樣的所以我想切入正題我想今天這個醫師他這個6月份即將離職然後這個懸缺補不上這個問題\n顯示了幾個就是說當然凸顯了就是說整個醫療制度在很多的這個不足那特別是我們對於這個偏鄉離島地區這個醫護人員的這個誘因是一個很大的問題那我想就這個短期面臨到的這個問題我就直接問你們\n因為我覺得我實在沒有辦法容忍說你們還要等到什麼時候才可以補這個缺額我只是在這裡想要要求說部長你們能不能立即啟動緊急人力調度來應變這樣的一個狀況有沒有什麼樣的機制你們可不可以立即啟動怎麼樣的機制來彌補來遞補這樣子的一個六月份即將發生的狀況\n謝謝委員 這個也是我們一直在想用各種方式第一個當然過去都是用獎勵讓他薪水高一點那是不是有可能這個又牽涉到整體\n整體的那種新資的就是說所有的偏鄉離島山地離島是不是都要做處理還是說因為缺了這個就再補這個這個我們會去分析利弊第二個就是\n是不是請台東的醫院我們給他多一點融合我想你現在講的都緩不濟急我現在就簡單的問六月就要缺人了我們現在是目前有跟衛生局在談立即啟動備援方案其實衛生局是負責當地醫療資源的調配但是如果他需要怎麼樣我們當然中央一定來支持不管是\n要融合啦那基本上整個當地的資源衛生局其實是要負責去調配啦所以但是有人關心這個我覺得是真的是重要所以我們\n其實也一直持續在跟衛生局看看哪裡可以調人力你什麼時候可以回覆本席就是你們如果目前他們正在調度那你們是不是可以更積極來協助我想我們回去請照護師、醫事師相關的我們一起來開個會\n馬上來找有效的方法立即來解決這個問題對啊你們就是要想窮盡一切的方式趕快來補齊嘛因為我想部長你應該沒有辦法忍受就是任何一個離島在半夜有病患有什麼狀況卻找不到這個醫生\n所以這個就是你急迫需要面臨的功課啊好 我們立即啟動所有的資源跟辦法來解決你不要立即啟動 結果到六月份還一樣沒有人我們一定全力以赴你什麼時候可以給本席回覆你立即啟動 你們現在開始演繹因為我一定要給你一些壓力啊不然大家就拖我們在和時間賽跑\n因為如果是六月要離開我們當然是希望在六月前有的力氣補他這樣子對 所以我是說你們現在啟動機制你這個機制你一定要在六月前確認你啟動之後你什麼時候可以回覆我們兩個禮拜以內來完成會議的一個可能有可行性提出方案然後來進行這過程當中也會到委員那邊做報告\n好 謝謝 那我希望兩個禮拜之後可以有一個圓滿的答覆那我們就再等你們兩個禮拜我想這個問題所凸顯的這個短中長期的問題或者我們應該做一些修法或一些專案的規劃我們則日再來討論那另外呢我要再請另外請那個國建署署長也一起上來那我先請教部長是\n加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議需要三分之二委員的同意才能通過是不是這樣\n兩年前的規定那個時候的辦法就是這樣子規定那辦法嘛 辦法要點是這樣子嘛對要點要點那好我們繼續齁那今年二月份這個國建署針對加熱菸的健康風險評估審查會議貴屬的大家眾所皆知的這位\n地下甲署長我們的甲副署長在會議開始時他就自行的這個宣布他突然這樣宣布就是說通過風險評估須獲得三分之二委員同意那他表示呢此違法規定\n但是在會議開始之前沒有任何委員曾經被告知這樣子的一個規範那我簡單跟大家報告一下2月15日出席14人同意8人有8票那不同意的有6票那因為主席才是就是這個\n就是說他沒有達到這個法定通過的這個人數三分之二所以當然那一次就沒有通過了3月10號出席15人同意10人然後不同意有5人所以看起來有到三分之二但是他還是不通過因為他不含本數就是他就沒有超過三分之二所以一樣這個會議又不通過了\n那我想要請問就是說明明你們在112年有訂了這個指定菸品的健康風險評估審查辦法沒有三分之二委員同意的規定然後副署長假副署長卻這樣子的宣布那這樣子的法規的規定依據在哪裡可不可以說明一下兩年前那個時候的制定方式可能吳署長比較清楚\n請吳署長說明一下因為兩年前應該部長還跟我一樣在立法院當同事\n我們有一個指定藥品健康風險設置要點那在裡面有規定要三分之二的委員出席大會才能做出這個會議然後有三分之二才能夠通過才能夠當成協議所以主責這個跟法規會一起主責推動這樣子的一個規定的是哪一位是甲副署長是吧我他是黃岩組的督導的長官\n好謝謝這樣很清楚那要點或辦法能不能抵觸法律可以嗎部長一般來說好那我順便提一下吼我國的會議規範是內政部訂定頒布全國的標準第56條很清楚的規定通過\n以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者也就是說會議有採取表決之方式就一定要以多數贊同者的意見作為通過的依據這也是我們國家所有一切的民主的基礎我想在這次二月中加熱菸的健康風險評估審查14位委員我剛講了有8位通過那6位委員不同意\n那就是八位同意然後六位不同意那大家也都在那會議充分的表達了意見依照我們內政部所訂定的會議規範應該要根據專家及委員的意見予以同意開放\n如今啊衛福部你們縱容假副署長凌駕在署長跟部長之上公然以行政手段打臉多數的委員他們的意見然後誤導大家\n來這個不遵守會議審查的規則讓這個審查委員留於可以操控的這個形式然後也讓部長您遲遲不敢決定去執行加熱菸的管理也造成今天我們的現況就是加熱菸的這些走私犯非常的猖獗換句話說2月15日那天的會議\n同意8票同意8票6票反對其實他就已經是通過了所以我在這裡拿出法條很清楚的攤在這邊讓你們做依據我想前面的那些簡直就是違法亂紀自己在那邊惡搞亂搞嘛所以\n而且 就是完全毫不掩飾的喔 主導一切我覺得喔 賈淑莉副署長 衛福部你們應該要立即停止賈淑莉副署長擔任國建署地下署長一職 並移送監察院\n部長我剛剛提的把我們的這個56條都翻給你看了您現在清楚了嗎清楚了好兩次審查會議的表決都是多數同意所以請你才是依照內政部頒布的會議規範第56條通過以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者以這一條去才是讓國建署立即宣布加熱菸通過可以嗎\n因為我不是法律專家所以真的要請法規來給我們一點解釋有沒有在現場他們可以解釋為什麼辦法可以凌駕於這個會議我們第56條之上然後改成三分之二同意才可以還要超過\n包委員我想謝謝你的提醒跟指導,我想我們馬上去請教法律的專家,看看是不是說我們要依刑\n我想我今天的質詢有兩個訴求第一個就是內政部頒布的這個我們的會議規範第56條讓你們做依據怎麼樣表決多數決到底要多少第二個就是在我們這麼長的時間這麼多的混亂這麼多的走私然後我們少收了這麼多的稅收\n最應該負責的人不應該輕輕放過因為這個是很可惡的事情簡直是違法亂紀所以這個你們依據法規好好調查該送監察院就應該送監察院那署長你也委屈了啦那請你好好做署長不要隨便被人家凌駕之上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:07.615\n那個謝主席麻煩請那個威福部長委員好\n\n00:18.073 --> 00:36.352\n部長好我調整一下我要問的這個問題的順序因為剛剛剛好連續前面兩位委員都是在談這個離島的這個醫療那當然我來自台東我還是一樣也要關心這個剛剛莊瑞雄委員提到的這個綠島的這個問題\n\n00:39.975 --> 01:03.381\n那當然這個綠島居民跟這個台灣居民一樣都是他們應該都要有這個享有同樣醫療照顧的權利那他們的這生命跟健康也不應該因為距離而被延誤所以目前那這個衛生所是這個整座島上唯一可以仰賴這個急救醫療的據點\n\n01:04.981 --> 01:24.268\n那如今呢三人輪班制的醫師缺額懸缺兩年了只有靠這個台東馬街一個好心的這個醫師來支援那現在這位醫師六月即將離職所以整個這個綠島的衛生所24小時的服務可能中斷那當然我提這個\n\n01:25.528 --> 01:39.397\n例子這個今日的綠島可能是明日的澎湖或者明日的哪一個外島都是一樣的所以我想切入正題我想今天這個醫師他這個6月份即將離職然後這個懸缺補不上這個問題\n\n01:48.744 --> 02:11.213\n顯示了幾個就是說當然凸顯了就是說整個醫療制度在很多的這個不足那特別是我們對於這個偏鄉離島地區這個醫護人員的這個誘因是一個很大的問題那我想就這個短期面臨到的這個問題我就直接問你們\n\n02:13.554 --> 02:34.306\n因為我覺得我實在沒有辦法容忍說你們還要等到什麼時候才可以補這個缺額我只是在這裡想要要求說部長你們能不能立即啟動緊急人力調度來應變這樣的一個狀況有沒有什麼樣的機制你們可不可以立即啟動怎麼樣的機制來彌補來遞補這樣子的一個六月份即將發生的狀況\n\n02:42.443 --> 02:56.231\n謝謝委員這個也是我們一直在想用各種方式第一個當然過去都是用獎勵讓他薪水高一點那是不是有可能這個又牽涉到整體\n\n02:57.432 --> 03:11.851\n整體的那種新資的就是說所有的偏鄉離島山地離島是不是都要做處理還是說因為缺了這個就再補這個這個我們會去分析利弊第二個就是\n\n03:12.652 --> 03:36.958\n是不是請台東的醫院我們給他多一點融合我想你現在講的都緩不濟急我現在就簡單的問六月就要缺人了我們現在是目前有跟衛生局在談立即啟動備援方案其實衛生局是負責當地醫療資源的調配但是如果他需要怎麼樣我們當然中央一定來支持不管是\n\n03:37.958 --> 03:53.098\n要融合啦那基本上整個當地的資源衛生局其實是要負責去調配啦所以但是有人關心這個我覺得是真的是重要所以我們\n\n03:56.600 --> 04:15.065\n其實也一直持續在跟衛生局看看哪裡可以調人力你什麼時候可以回覆本席就是你們如果目前他們正在調度那你們是不是可以更積極來協助我想我們回去請照護師、醫事師相關的我們一起來開個會\n\n04:22.869 --> 04:41.101\n馬上來找有效的方法立即來解決這個問題對啊你們就是要想窮盡一切的方式趕快來補齊嘛因為我想部長你應該沒有辦法忍受就是任何一個離島在半夜有病患有什麼狀況卻找不到這個醫生\n\n04:44.683 --> 05:09.520\n所以這個就是你急迫需要面臨的功課啊好我們立即啟動所有的資源跟辦法來解決你不要立即啟動結果到六月份還一樣沒有人我們一定全力以赴你什麼時候可以給本席回覆你立即啟動你們現在開始演繹因為我一定要給你一些壓力啊不然大家就拖我們在和時間賽跑\n\n05:11.840 --> 05:38.567\n因為如果是六月要離開我們當然是希望在六月前有的力氣補他這樣子對所以我是說你們現在啟動機制你這個機制你一定要在六月前確認你啟動之後你什麼時候可以回覆我們兩個禮拜以內來完成會議的一個可能有可行性提出方案然後來進行這過程當中也會到委員那邊做報告\n\n05:39.192 --> 06:05.992\n好謝謝那我希望兩個禮拜之後可以有一個圓滿的答覆那我們就再等你們兩個禮拜我想這個問題所凸顯的這個短中長期的問題或者我們應該做一些修法或一些專案的規劃我們則日再來討論那另外呢我要再請另外請那個國建署署長也一起上來那我先請教部長是\n\n06:07.274 --> 06:15.034\n加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議需要三分之二委員的同意才能通過是不是這樣\n\n06:17.436 --> 06:33.767\n兩年前的規定那個時候的辦法就是這樣子規定那辦法嘛辦法要點是這樣子嘛對要點要點那好我們繼續齁那今年二月份這個國建署針對加熱菸的健康風險評估審查會議貴屬的大家眾所皆知的這位\n\n06:40.732 --> 07:00.313\n地下甲署長我們的甲副署長在會議開始時他就自行的這個宣布他突然這樣宣布就是說通過風險評估須獲得三分之二委員同意那他表示呢此違法規定\n\n07:02.861 --> 07:25.980\n但是在會議開始之前沒有任何委員曾經被告知這樣子的一個規範那我簡單跟大家報告一下2月15日出席14人同意8人有8票那不同意的有6票那因為主席才是就是這個\n\n07:29.332 --> 07:58.295\n就是說他沒有達到這個法定通過的這個人數三分之二所以當然那一次就沒有通過了3月10號出席15人同意10人然後不同意有5人所以看起來有到三分之二但是他還是不通過因為他不含本數就是他就沒有超過三分之二所以一樣這個會議又不通過了\n\n07:59.256 --> 08:26.659\n那我想要請問就是說明明你們在112年有訂了這個指定菸品的健康風險評估審查辦法沒有三分之二委員同意的規定然後副署長假副署長卻這樣子的宣布那這樣子的法規的規定依據在哪裡可不可以說明一下兩年前那個時候的制定方式可能吳署長比較清楚\n\n08:29.097 --> 08:34.485\n請吳署長說明一下因為兩年前應該部長還跟我一樣在立法院當同事\n\n08:37.735 --> 08:59.982\n我們有一個指定藥品健康風險設置要點那在裡面有規定要三分之二的委員出席大會才能做出這個會議然後有三分之二才能夠通過才能夠當成協議所以主責這個跟法規會一起主責推動這樣子的一個規定的是哪一位是甲副署長是吧我他是黃岩組的督導的長官\n\n09:06.425 --> 09:28.986\n好謝謝這樣很清楚那要點或辦法能不能抵觸法律可以嗎部長一般來說好那我順便提一下吼我國的會議規範是內政部訂定頒布全國的標準第56條很清楚的規定通過\n\n09:30.407 --> 09:59.469\n以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者也就是說會議有採取表決之方式就一定要以多數贊同者的意見作為通過的依據這也是我們國家所有一切的民主的基礎我想在這次二月中加熱菸的健康風險評估審查14位委員我剛講了有8位通過那6位委員不同意\n\n10:00.690 --> 10:16.472\n那就是八位同意然後六位不同意那大家也都在那會議充分的表達了意見依照我們內政部所訂定的會議規範應該要根據專家及委員的意見予以同意開放\n\n10:17.967 --> 10:33.008\n如今啊衛福部你們縱容假副署長凌駕在署長跟部長之上公然以行政手段打臉多數的委員他們的意見然後誤導大家\n\n10:34.830 --> 10:57.925\n來這個不遵守會議審查的規則讓這個審查委員留於可以操控的這個形式然後也讓部長您遲遲不敢決定去執行加熱菸的管理也造成今天我們的現況就是加熱菸的這些走私犯非常的猖獗換句話說2月15日那天的會議\n\n11:00.087 --> 11:22.083\n同意8票同意8票6票反對其實他就已經是通過了所以我在這裡拿出法條很清楚的攤在這邊讓你們做依據我想前面的那些簡直就是違法亂紀自己在那邊惡搞亂搞嘛所以\n\n11:23.120 --> 11:41.739\n而且就是完全毫不掩飾的喔主導一切我覺得喔賈淑莉副署長衛福部你們應該要立即停止賈淑莉副署長擔任國建署地下署長一職並移送監察院\n\n11:44.278 --> 12:13.346\n部長我剛剛提的把我們的這個56條都翻給你看了您現在清楚了嗎清楚了好兩次審查會議的表決都是多數同意所以請你才是依照內政部頒布的會議規範第56條通過以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者以這一條去才是讓國建署立即宣布加熱菸通過可以嗎\n\n12:19.702 --> 12:43.968\n因為我不是法律專家所以真的要請法規來給我們一點解釋有沒有在現場他們可以解釋為什麼辦法可以凌駕於這個會議我們第56條之上然後改成三分之二同意才可以還要超過\n\n12:48.440 --> 13:05.052\n包委員我想謝謝你的提醒跟指導,我想我們馬上去請教法律的專家,看看是不是說我們要依刑\n\n13:08.806 --> 13:34.332\n我想我今天的質詢有兩個訴求第一個就是內政部頒布的這個我們的會議規範第56條讓你們做依據怎麼樣表決多數決到底要多少第二個就是在我們這麼長的時間這麼多的混亂這麼多的走私然後我們少收了這麼多的稅收\n\n13:35.752 --> 13:57.100\n最應該負責的人不應該輕輕放過因為這個是很可惡的事情簡直是違法亂紀所以這個你們依據法規好好調查該送監察院就應該送監察院那署長你也委屈了啦那請你好好做署長不要隨便被人家凌駕之上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":7.615,"text":"那個 謝主席 麻煩請那個 威福部長委員好"},{"start":18.073,"end":36.352,"text":"部長好 我調整一下我要問的這個問題的順序因為剛剛剛好連續前面兩位委員都是在談這個離島的這個醫療那當然我來自台東我還是一樣也要關心這個剛剛莊瑞雄委員提到的這個綠島的這個問題"},{"start":39.975,"end":63.381,"text":"那當然這個綠島居民跟這個台灣居民一樣都是他們應該都要有這個享有同樣醫療照顧的權利那他們的這生命跟健康也不應該因為距離而被延誤所以目前那這個衛生所是這個整座島上唯一可以仰賴這個急救醫療的據點"},{"start":64.981,"end":84.268,"text":"那如今呢三人輪班制的醫師缺額懸缺兩年了只有靠這個台東馬街一個好心的這個醫師來支援那現在這位醫師六月即將離職所以整個這個綠島的衛生所24小時的服務可能中斷那當然我提這個"},{"start":85.528,"end":99.397,"text":"例子這個今日的綠島可能是明日的澎湖或者明日的哪一個外島都是一樣的所以我想切入正題我想今天這個醫師他這個6月份即將離職然後這個懸缺補不上這個問題"},{"start":108.744,"end":131.213,"text":"顯示了幾個就是說當然凸顯了就是說整個醫療制度在很多的這個不足那特別是我們對於這個偏鄉離島地區這個醫護人員的這個誘因是一個很大的問題那我想就這個短期面臨到的這個問題我就直接問你們"},{"start":133.554,"end":154.306,"text":"因為我覺得我實在沒有辦法容忍說你們還要等到什麼時候才可以補這個缺額我只是在這裡想要要求說部長你們能不能立即啟動緊急人力調度來應變這樣的一個狀況有沒有什麼樣的機制你們可不可以立即啟動怎麼樣的機制來彌補來遞補這樣子的一個六月份即將發生的狀況"},{"start":162.443,"end":176.231,"text":"謝謝委員 這個也是我們一直在想用各種方式第一個當然過去都是用獎勵讓他薪水高一點那是不是有可能這個又牽涉到整體"},{"start":177.432,"end":191.851,"text":"整體的那種新資的就是說所有的偏鄉離島山地離島是不是都要做處理還是說因為缺了這個就再補這個這個我們會去分析利弊第二個就是"},{"start":192.652,"end":216.958,"text":"是不是請台東的醫院我們給他多一點融合我想你現在講的都緩不濟急我現在就簡單的問六月就要缺人了我們現在是目前有跟衛生局在談立即啟動備援方案其實衛生局是負責當地醫療資源的調配但是如果他需要怎麼樣我們當然中央一定來支持不管是"},{"start":217.958,"end":233.098,"text":"要融合啦那基本上整個當地的資源衛生局其實是要負責去調配啦所以但是有人關心這個我覺得是真的是重要所以我們"},{"start":236.6,"end":255.065,"text":"其實也一直持續在跟衛生局看看哪裡可以調人力你什麼時候可以回覆本席就是你們如果目前他們正在調度那你們是不是可以更積極來協助我想我們回去請照護師、醫事師相關的我們一起來開個會"},{"start":262.869,"end":281.101,"text":"馬上來找有效的方法立即來解決這個問題對啊你們就是要想窮盡一切的方式趕快來補齊嘛因為我想部長你應該沒有辦法忍受就是任何一個離島在半夜有病患有什麼狀況卻找不到這個醫生"},{"start":284.683,"end":309.52,"text":"所以這個就是你急迫需要面臨的功課啊好 我們立即啟動所有的資源跟辦法來解決你不要立即啟動 結果到六月份還一樣沒有人我們一定全力以赴你什麼時候可以給本席回覆你立即啟動 你們現在開始演繹因為我一定要給你一些壓力啊不然大家就拖我們在和時間賽跑"},{"start":311.84,"end":338.567,"text":"因為如果是六月要離開我們當然是希望在六月前有的力氣補他這樣子對 所以我是說你們現在啟動機制你這個機制你一定要在六月前確認你啟動之後你什麼時候可以回覆我們兩個禮拜以內來完成會議的一個可能有可行性提出方案然後來進行這過程當中也會到委員那邊做報告"},{"start":339.192,"end":365.992,"text":"好 謝謝 那我希望兩個禮拜之後可以有一個圓滿的答覆那我們就再等你們兩個禮拜我想這個問題所凸顯的這個短中長期的問題或者我們應該做一些修法或一些專案的規劃我們則日再來討論那另外呢我要再請另外請那個國建署署長也一起上來那我先請教部長是"},{"start":367.274,"end":375.034,"text":"加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議需要三分之二委員的同意才能通過是不是這樣"},{"start":377.436,"end":393.767,"text":"兩年前的規定那個時候的辦法就是這樣子規定那辦法嘛 辦法要點是這樣子嘛對要點要點那好我們繼續齁那今年二月份這個國建署針對加熱菸的健康風險評估審查會議貴屬的大家眾所皆知的這位"},{"start":400.732,"end":420.313,"text":"地下甲署長我們的甲副署長在會議開始時他就自行的這個宣布他突然這樣宣布就是說通過風險評估須獲得三分之二委員同意那他表示呢此違法規定"},{"start":422.861,"end":445.98,"text":"但是在會議開始之前沒有任何委員曾經被告知這樣子的一個規範那我簡單跟大家報告一下2月15日出席14人同意8人有8票那不同意的有6票那因為主席才是就是這個"},{"start":449.332,"end":478.295,"text":"就是說他沒有達到這個法定通過的這個人數三分之二所以當然那一次就沒有通過了3月10號出席15人同意10人然後不同意有5人所以看起來有到三分之二但是他還是不通過因為他不含本數就是他就沒有超過三分之二所以一樣這個會議又不通過了"},{"start":479.256,"end":506.659,"text":"那我想要請問就是說明明你們在112年有訂了這個指定菸品的健康風險評估審查辦法沒有三分之二委員同意的規定然後副署長假副署長卻這樣子的宣布那這樣子的法規的規定依據在哪裡可不可以說明一下兩年前那個時候的制定方式可能吳署長比較清楚"},{"start":509.097,"end":514.485,"text":"請吳署長說明一下因為兩年前應該部長還跟我一樣在立法院當同事"},{"start":517.735,"end":539.982,"text":"我們有一個指定藥品健康風險設置要點那在裡面有規定要三分之二的委員出席大會才能做出這個會議然後有三分之二才能夠通過才能夠當成協議所以主責這個跟法規會一起主責推動這樣子的一個規定的是哪一位是甲副署長是吧我他是黃岩組的督導的長官"},{"start":546.425,"end":568.986,"text":"好謝謝這樣很清楚那要點或辦法能不能抵觸法律可以嗎部長一般來說好那我順便提一下吼我國的會議規範是內政部訂定頒布全國的標準第56條很清楚的規定通過"},{"start":570.407,"end":599.469,"text":"以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者也就是說會議有採取表決之方式就一定要以多數贊同者的意見作為通過的依據這也是我們國家所有一切的民主的基礎我想在這次二月中加熱菸的健康風險評估審查14位委員我剛講了有8位通過那6位委員不同意"},{"start":600.69,"end":616.472,"text":"那就是八位同意然後六位不同意那大家也都在那會議充分的表達了意見依照我們內政部所訂定的會議規範應該要根據專家及委員的意見予以同意開放"},{"start":617.967,"end":633.008,"text":"如今啊衛福部你們縱容假副署長凌駕在署長跟部長之上公然以行政手段打臉多數的委員他們的意見然後誤導大家"},{"start":634.83,"end":657.925,"text":"來這個不遵守會議審查的規則讓這個審查委員留於可以操控的這個形式然後也讓部長您遲遲不敢決定去執行加熱菸的管理也造成今天我們的現況就是加熱菸的這些走私犯非常的猖獗換句話說2月15日那天的會議"},{"start":660.087,"end":682.083,"text":"同意8票同意8票6票反對其實他就已經是通過了所以我在這裡拿出法條很清楚的攤在這邊讓你們做依據我想前面的那些簡直就是違法亂紀自己在那邊惡搞亂搞嘛所以"},{"start":683.12,"end":701.739,"text":"而且 就是完全毫不掩飾的喔 主導一切我覺得喔 賈淑莉副署長 衛福部你們應該要立即停止賈淑莉副署長擔任國建署地下署長一職 並移送監察院"},{"start":704.278,"end":733.346,"text":"部長我剛剛提的把我們的這個56條都翻給你看了您現在清楚了嗎清楚了好兩次審查會議的表決都是多數同意所以請你才是依照內政部頒布的會議規範第56條通過以表決之方式獲得多數之贊同者以這一條去才是讓國建署立即宣布加熱菸通過可以嗎"},{"start":739.702,"end":763.968,"text":"因為我不是法律專家所以真的要請法規來給我們一點解釋有沒有在現場他們可以解釋為什麼辦法可以凌駕於這個會議我們第56條之上然後改成三分之二同意才可以還要超過"},{"start":768.44,"end":785.052,"text":"包委員我想謝謝你的提醒跟指導,我想我們馬上去請教法律的專家,看看是不是說我們要依刑"},{"start":788.806,"end":814.332,"text":"我想我今天的質詢有兩個訴求第一個就是內政部頒布的這個我們的會議規範第56條讓你們做依據怎麼樣表決多數決到底要多少第二個就是在我們這麼長的時間這麼多的混亂這麼多的走私然後我們少收了這麼多的稅收"},{"start":815.752,"end":837.1,"text":"最應該負責的人不應該輕輕放過因為這個是很可惡的事情簡直是違法亂紀所以這個你們依據法規好好調查該送監察院就應該送監察院那署長你也委屈了啦那請你好好做署長不要隨便被人家凌駕之上謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1342,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（13時36分）謝謝主席！麻煩請衛福部部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：部長好。我先調整一下我要問的問題的順序，因為剛好連續前面兩位委員都在談離島醫療，我來自臺東，當然也一樣關心剛剛莊瑞雄委員提到的綠島這個問題。綠島居民跟臺灣居民一樣，他們應該都享有同樣醫療照顧的權利，他們的生命跟健康也不應該因為距離而被延誤，目前這個衛生所是整座島上唯一可以仰賴急救醫療的據點，如今三人輪班制的醫師缺額已經懸缺兩年了，只有靠臺東馬偕一個好心的醫師來支援，現在這位醫師6月即將離職，所以整個綠島衛生所24小時的服務可能中斷。我提這個例子的意思是，今日的綠島可能是明日的澎湖或者明日的哪一個外島，都是一樣的。我在這裡要切入正題，今天這個醫師即將於6月離職然後懸缺補不上的問題，凸顯了整個醫療制度在很多方面的不足，特別是偏鄉離島地區醫護人員的誘因是一個很大的問題，我想就這個短期面臨到的問題直接問一下，因為我覺得我實在沒有辦法容忍說你們還要等到什麼時候才可以補這個缺額，我只想在這裡要求部長，你們能不能立即啟動緊急人力調度來應變這樣的狀況？你們可不可以立即啟動怎麼樣的機制，來彌補、來遞補6月份即將發生的狀況？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，這個也是我們一直在思考的，第一個當然就是過去採用的獎勵方式，比如薪水高一點是不是有可能改善，但是這個又牽涉到整體的薪資結構，就是所有的偏鄉山地離島是不是都要處理，還是說因為缺了這個就在補這個，這些我們都會去分析利弊。第二個，我們是不是給臺東醫院多一點容額，無論是……"],["陳委員瑩：我認為你講的都是緩不濟急，現在就簡單地問，6月就要缺人了，你要立即啟動……"],["邱部長泰源：目前我們已經與衛生局在談了。"],["陳委員瑩：立即啟動這個備援方案。"],["邱部長泰源：其實衛生局是負責當地醫療資源的調配，如果它需要怎麼樣做，中央一定會支持，無論是要容額或什麼，基本上，當地的資源是由衛生局負責調配。但我認為委員關心的這個問題真的是很重要，其實我們也一直持續與衛生局討論，哪裡可以調到人力。如果這個部分是用……"],["陳委員瑩：你什麼時候可以回復本席？如果他們目前正在調度，你們是不是可以更積極的協助、想想辦法？"],["邱部長泰源：我回去後會請照護司及醫事司等相關單位一起開會，馬上尋找有效的方法，立即解決這個問題。"],["陳委員瑩：對啊！你們就是要窮盡一切方式趕快補齊。我想部長應該也無法忍受，任何一個離島在半夜有病患發生狀況卻找不到醫生，所以這個就是你急迫必須面臨的功課啊！"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們立即啟用所有的資源及辦法去解決。"],["陳委員瑩：你不要在這裡說立即啟動，結果到了6月份還是一樣沒有人耶！"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定全力以赴。"],["陳委員瑩：你什麼時候可以回復本席？既然要立即啟動，你們現在就開始研議，我一定要給你一些壓力，不然大家就是拖啊！我們正在與時間賽跑。"],["邱部長泰源：如果是6月要離開，我們當然希望在6月之前有人力去補位。"],["陳委員瑩：對，既然你們要啟動機制，這個機制一定要在6月之前確認，所以啟動之後到底什麼時候可以回復我？"],["邱部長泰源：2個禮拜之內完成會議，提出可行性的方案並進行，同時也會到委員辦公室報告。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。我希望2個禮拜之後可以有一個圓滿的答復，所以我們就再等你們2個禮拜。"],["邱部長泰源：我們會立即召集相關的司署一起開會。"],["陳委員瑩：這件事情凸顯出短中長期的問題，或許我們應該做一些修法或是專案的規劃，所以我們擇日再來討論。"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["陳委員瑩：另外，我要請國健署署長也一起上來。先請教部長，加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議需要三分之二委員的同意才能通過，是不是這樣？"],["邱部長泰源：兩年前的辦法就是這樣規定。"],["陳委員瑩：辦法、要點的規定是這樣嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：對，要點。"],["陳委員瑩：今年2月份的加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議，貴署的這位地下賈署長、賈副署長，在會議開始時他突然就自行宣布，通過風險評估須獲得三分之二委員的同意，此為法規之規定，但是在會議開始前沒有任何委員曾被告知這樣的規範。","我簡單的向大家報告一下，2月15日出席14人、同意8人，所以同意的有8票、不同意的有6票，主席裁示並未達到法定三分之二委員的同意，那一次當然就沒有通過了。3月15日出席15人、同意10人、不同意5人，看起來是達到三分之二，仍然是不通過，因為沒有超過三分之二，所以這次會議一樣又不通過了。請問，明明你們在112年訂定的指定菸品健康風險評估審查辦法並沒有三分之二委員同意的規定，賈副署長卻這樣宣布，這個法規的依據在哪裡，可不可以說明一下？"],["邱部長泰源：兩年前的制定方式，可能吳署長比較清楚。"],["陳委員瑩：請吳署長說明一下，因為部長兩年前還與我一起在立法院當同事，好好講喔！"],["吳署長昭軍：在指定菸品健康風險設置要點中規定大會須有三分之二委員出席才能召開會議，而且要有三分之二委員同意才能通過決議。"],["陳委員瑩：主責推動這個法規會議規定的是哪位？是賈副署長吧？"],["吳署長昭軍：他是防菸組的督導長官。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝，這樣很清楚。要點或辦法能不能牴觸法律？部長，可以嗎？一般來說？"],["邱部長泰源：辦法不能牴觸法律啊！"],["陳委員瑩：好！我順便提一下，我國的會議規範是內政部訂定頒布全國的標準，第五十六條很清楚的規定，通過以表決之方式，獲得多數之贊同者，也就是說，會議有採取表決之方式就一定要以多數贊同者的意見作為通過的依據，這個也是我們國家所有一切的民主基礎。這次2月中加熱菸健康風險評估審查會議的14位委員有8位同意、6位不同意，大家也都在會議中充分表達了意見，依照內政部訂定的會議規範，應該要根據專家及委員的意見予以同意開放。","如今衛福部縱容賈副署長凌駕於署長及部長之上，公然以行政手段打臉多數委員的意見，誤導大家不遵守會議審查的規則，讓這個審查委員會流於可以操控的形式，也讓部長遲遲不敢決定執行加熱菸的管理、也造成加熱菸走私販非常猖獗的現況。換句話說，2月15日那天的會議有8票同意、有6票反對，其實它就已經是通過了，現在我拿出法條很清楚的攤在這邊，讓你們很清楚地做為依據。我認為前面的那些作為簡直就是違法亂紀，自己在那邊惡搞、亂搞，而且是完全毫不掩飾的主導一切，衛福部應該要立即停止賈淑麗副署長擔任國健署地下署長一職，並移送監察院。","部長，剛剛我把第五十六條都翻給你看了，現在你清楚了嗎？清楚了！2次審查會議的表決都是多數同意，因此請你裁示，依照內政部頒布的會議規範第五十六條，通過以表決之方式，獲得多數之贊同者，以這一條裁示讓國健署立即宣布加熱菸通過，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：因為我不是法律專家，真的要請法規單位給我們一點解釋。"],["陳委員瑩：有沒有在現場？"],["邱部長泰源：法規……"],["陳委員瑩：他們可以解釋為什麼辦法可以凌駕於第五十六條之上，改成三分之二同意才可以通過，而且還要超過三分之二？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，謝謝你的提醒與指導，我們一定會馬上去請教法律專家，看看我們是不是要依循哪一條。"],["陳委員瑩：今天我的質詢有2個訴求，第一個，內政部頒布的會議規範第五十六條讓你們作為依據，怎麼樣表決？多數決到底要多少？第二個，在這麼長的時間造成這麼多的混亂、這麼多的走私，而且少收了這麼多的稅收，對於最應該負責的人不應該輕輕放過，因為這是很可惡的事情，簡直是違法亂紀！你們要依據法規好好調查，該送監察院就應該送監察院。"],["邱部長泰源：了解。"],["陳委員瑩：署長，你也委屈了！請你好好做署長，不要隨便被人家凌駕在你之上，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員、謝謝部長。","本日會議詢答全部結束，委員林楚茵、林德福所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員林楚茵書面質詢：","據衛生福利部林靜儀政務次長於本年4月22日於Facebook發文指出，有民眾在社群媒體詢問，其友人居住於中國的家人「長期以來都是服用台灣醫師開立的處方藥」，但因目前無法直接郵寄藥品回中國，因此希望可由其他民眾協助，代為從台灣領取相關處方藥後攜帶入境中國。","根據該則貼文內容，驚覺原來台灣多項處方藥物，在經本國醫師開立處方後，竟可能由居住於中國之人士於當地長期服用。值此時刻，國內藥界已向衛生福利部示警，指美國對等關稅政策恐對我國造成缺藥壓力，若我國藥品無條件提供予旅居中國之非本國人士使用，勢將進一步加深國內缺藥風險。","爰此，請衛生福利部儘速查明該個案所涉藥品之來源、處方簽開立醫師及相關健保使用情形，並全面釐清冒用健保身分、攜帶處方藥品前往中國供親友服用之現況與規模。","另，同一篇貼文亦提及，我國離島地區，特別是金門，有大量「水客」可協助挾帶台灣藥品至中國，並聲稱「可以找他們幫忙」。","又據聯合新聞網本年1月11日報導，我國金門與中國廈門間「小三通」交通管道充斥跑單幫亂象，不僅部分旅客拒絕配合港務人員行李檢查，更遭媒體批評為「國門蒙羞」。","日前本席已指出，美國對等關稅政策旨在建立「非紅供應鏈」，台灣絕不可成為中國「洗產地」中繼點，同理，亦不應成為中國利用台灣進口美國原廠藥品之漏洞破口。","爰請財政部研議加強金馬地區小三通通道之查緝與防範措施，特別針對藥品及民生物資加強風險管控與違規查處。並請彙整台灣自美國進口貨品後復出口至中國之貨品類別與數量，詳實掌握流向。"],["委員林德福書面質詢：","國家社會福利政策財源檢討","及偏鄉兒童發展篩檢執行情形","問題一","養育孩子過程中，照顧者常面臨工作、家庭、育兒蠟燭多頭燒的狀況，為提供照顧者喘息服務，許多縣市政府提供「兒童臨時托育服務」。","根據衛福部統計，嬰幼兒受虐超過9成發生在家庭內，施虐者則有8成是父母，嬰幼兒不當對待大多發生於受家長照顧管教期間。","請問衛福部代表，如果有更多的「育兒喘息服務」可以讓父母申請使用，減輕父母照顧幼兒壓力，是否有助於減少兒虐問題？並請說明「強化社會安全網計畫」第二期計畫中，有無「育兒喘息服務」可以讓民眾申請使用？","問題二","本席在今年3月4日質詢「行政院卓榮泰院長」時提到，運用「超徵稅收」，行政院若有不同想法，應該要提出對案。","卓榮泰院長當時表示，「超徵稅收」屬於中央的部分應該有3757億元，並回應本席，「將朝這個方向來走，盼超徵稅收用以幫助社會上最需要的人。」","「長照基金」截至114年3月底止「實際賸餘」約206億元，有學者提醒，預估再過二、三年，「長照基金」就要耗盡，加上「房地合一稅」的收入來源減少，政府必須思考新的收入來源。","請問衛福部，是否有向行政院爭取此次「2024稅收超徵」撥補「長照基金」？","問題三","「陽明交通大學衛生福利研究所」教授建議，政府應開辦「長照保險」，提升「長照財務負擔」和使用的公平性，採「稅收」加「保險」的混合財源制度。","醫界也建議，2026年預計實施的「長照3.0」一定要強化財源，建議政府考慮開辦「長照保險」及更多「公務預算」投入，並將「部分健保」的錢，改由「長照端」給付，才能達到穩定和永續。","請問「衛福部」，政府是否有在規劃「長照保險」？預計何時會有方案對外說明？未來2026年「長照3.0」上路後，會採取哪些措施健全「長照基金」財源？"],["主席：現在作以下決定：第一，報告詢答完畢。第二，委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩周內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者從其所定。","本日會議到此結束，現在休息，明天是二日一次會。","休息（13時51分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","葛如鈞","劉建國","王育敏","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","黃秀芳","羅廷瑋","鍾佳濱","陳菁徽","盧縣一","李坤城","陳培瑜","張雅琳","莊瑞雄","楊曜","陳瑩","林楚茵","林德福"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-04-23"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、財政部次長就「國家社會福利政策財源檢討及偏鄉兒童發展篩檢執行情\n形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00004"}}}