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\"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 622.366, \"end\": 622.527, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 622.527, \"end\": 622.908, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 622.908, \"end\": 623.068, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 623.068, \"end\": 623.69, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 623.69, \"end\": 623.891, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 623.891, \"end\": 624.091, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 624.091, \"end\": 624.392, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 624.392, \"end\": 624.593, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 624.593, \"end\": 624.613, \"score\": 0.484}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,530 --> 00:00:08,322\n科資恩委員進行質詢謝謝周阿偉我們是不是請陳主委好有請陳主委\n\n2\n00:00:17,071 --> 00:00:37,451\n主委好你好主委好你这是应该是上任之后第一次上台备选吗是的好我们来看一下因为你过去来说你在2022年的时候曾经有一个媒体的投书你认为我们绿能是严重的落后所以说在核电厂跟部分火力发电厂陆迅群下\n\n3\n00:00:38,212 --> 00:01:06,463\n很担心这个所谓的这个供电不稳所以建议我们非核家运应该延长到2035年主委你这样的过去的说法你现在还认同吗谢谢委员当时时空背景是第四接收站环境没有通过对了所以我说你现在还是认不认为应该延到2035对您过去的说法你像是反驳还是继续延续\n\n4\n00:01:10,339 --> 00:01:35,834\n这是属于国家的这也是国安的议题了我认为这个能源问题也是国安议题我当然知道我这问题说你现在还赞不赞成你2022年媒体投书的说法你认为担心这个电力的不稳定所以你认为非核家园应该延到2035我现在只问一个非常单纯的问题对你过去的\n\n5\n00:01:37,150 --> 00:01:47,117\n的论点你现在还认为应该持续呢还是如何行为稍微耐心点稍微简单说明一下你认不认同只有一句话\n\n6\n00:01:49,841 --> 00:02:14,063\n对于你2035应该延到2035你过去2020是你投书的当然如果这样讲好了如果我只有6分钟啊2035年的话可以减轻我们这压力是真的可以减轻我们的压力嘛对不对所以你认为说2035可能是一个虽然目前为止我们和三也要除役了我现在只是希望主委你过去根据你的专业你是难得一个我们合工背景然后站在这个位置上面\n\n7\n00:02:14,343 --> 00:02:43,319\n我觉得这个东西你要为你自己过去的言论来做一个背书因为呢我们知道你也特别提到因为能源政策是一个国家最上位的一个政策嘛那你遇到瓶颈的时候嘛你就必须要懂得一个变通然后呢所以我才会特别问您这句话你到底能够为新的核能做哪一些的努力这是我今天问的部分所以你的回应是什么你说新能源是吧我意思说你是不是到目前为止任务的能源政策是不是应该还有更具有弹性变通的能力\n\n8\n00:02:45,774 --> 00:02:49,021\n這個是需要各方討論的我們也說過\n\n9\n00:02:51,707 --> 00:03:18,878\n这个要核安核废料可以得到安全处置这个部分那个主委这个东西蓝绿从过去到现在都一直在核安跟核废料这两个问题在做一些讨论所以不容您多赘述我只是要跟您特别的问一下因为我们都这个能源政策非常重要目前来说也非常多新的核能技术不断在发展但是呢很显然目前只有你们的国研院\n\n10\n00:03:19,778 --> 00:03:47,352\n正在执行跟国科会有关的和融合的基础的研究中研院甚至表示他们并没有这样子的能量来做新核能的研究但是你稍微看一下我是为你们在教学我们你们的国研院找了这么多的专家结果你们第一期的计划只有1133万整体计划也只有3500万第二期更不要讲也其实只有6000万到7000万依你的专业的判断你觉得国家\n\n11\n00:03:48,052 --> 00:04:00,598\n投入這些資源可以跟上國際的腳步嗎我們確實需要加大腳步投資你這個加大腳步加大到多少美國每年投資大概是251億中國大陸大概是投資472億我們目前為止最多大概就是7000萬這個已經不是加大角度了\n\n12\n00:04:08,601 --> 00:04:23,344\n所以就可以顯示當政府不但告訴我們這是有很多的彈性我們也很希望有很多新的技術可是顯現在一個數字上面來說你會發現他是完全沒有在這一塊面要多做努力的郭院長高院長你應該也同意吧你這些經費來說的話報告那個立委我們事實上合龍河這個技術你認為錢夠不夠嗎你們講太多了我時間很有限我先說明一下這個技術應該\n\n13\n00:04:39,457 --> 00:04:53,957\n近10年到20年應該不可能會產生所以這樣的經費就夠了目前投入研發適當的經費這樣就夠了所以說美國核融核的這個研究你們看到之後你都不覺得這個部分裡面政府應該追上他們的腳步\n\n14\n00:04:54,938 --> 00:05:15,855\n好OK然后呢特别是当全世界都在对这个所谓的新的核能技术展开的时候我们需要非常多的人才我特别提到嘛很多时候呢像过去有很多的这个企业界大佬还有特别提到的过去清大和工系是相当认为这是主委你当初毕业的可惜在场有非常多勤大的现在目前来说呢光是要招生都非常的困难而且你们还改了一个名字这个名字说实在的\n\n15\n00:05:22,941 --> 00:05:40,235\n叫做工程与系统科学系就是不要把合工这两个字放出来以前在我那个年代是师商还是非常的非常多人愿意学习的然后呢你看我们再看下面所以具有美国官方背景的爱德哈国家实验室到了我们这个系栏里面\n\n16\n00:05:40,595 --> 00:06:05,848\n他甚至开出了美金九万五千大概月薪二十四万五千的台币想要来挖掘我们的人才所以说呢你会发现特别是我想诸位你也知道你过去来说合工背景的过去沉寂一段时间但是最近是实在是非常的热门当我们的人才培养好当你完全没有的时候以后万一真的有任何核能或是新的技术在家你要再把这些人才找\n\n17\n00:06:07,009 --> 00:06:12,477\n回来已经是不太容易了所以说主委你面对这样的状况你难道不会有任何一点感触吗\n\n18\n00:06:15,331 --> 00:06:24,955\n確實我們核能人才過去二線流失的很多確實我們要在這方面要加強包括你的經費你自己的說法你的各方面你如何能夠說服這些人我們要加強人才更不要說之前我也問到了可能台電要撤裁這個核發處然後呢他馬上澄清說沒有他們只是來做一個工作內容調整我再一次去了解以後他們就是打算把\n\n19\n00:06:41,843 --> 00:07:00,768\n核发处跟核能技术出来合并很多人除了继续做这个厨艺工作之外多余的人力都会把转到大潭新达电厂核工专业的人被丢到火力电厂主委你身为一个核工人难道你不会对这样的状况有任何觉得要为核工人说几句话吗这是核工人的风骨哎\n\n20\n00:07:06,192 --> 00:07:21,141\n確實我們的核能方面的人才有嚴重的斷層不管是各方面從台電也好原能會也好都有嚴重斷層確實我們需要加強這方面人才培育第二我們要盡量保持\n\n21\n00:07:22,202 --> 00:07:39,872\n先有人你能保持下来不要再不让他再流失你连你连这个河安你连河南会被降到四级然后呢很多地方大家就想这样的一个单位每次问到你们这个部分你们只是在把这个河岸我最后讲那个招待再给我一分钟就很好\n\n22\n00:07:40,632 --> 00:08:05,152\n核二核三厂的研议的问题我还是要强调这是问到这个郭智慧经济部长的时候他说必须遵照40年的一个规范这没有问题大家都知道所以我们当初只是希望能够更有弹性的一个做法但是很显然目前蓝绿都没有共识第二个核三二号机燃料池不足要解决这个问题这是经济部长所提到的要解决也解决燃料池的问题但是我问了\n\n23\n00:08:05,692 --> 00:08:19,647\n我特别发寒去问的结果告诉我们燃料池上有空间而且呢室内干储场即将要招标不管你要不要厨艺不管你有没有研艺说实在的室内的干式储存厂就是一定要干没错吧\n\n24\n00:08:20,882 --> 00:08:27,944\n所以不要用這兩個理由來告訴我們沒有這兩個理由解決沒有辦法往下走事實上他把這些所有的問題要嘛就丟給你們河岸會要嘛就丟給地方事實上呢這兩個問題都不會是問題因為從林全院長開始就已經告訴大家室內乾式儲存場本來就是要設立不管有沒有廚藝所以剛剛郭志輝部長所講的那兩個問題其實只是在顯示政府不斷的告訴我們有彈性的空間但是呢他們一點都不想做你同意吧\n\n25\n00:08:52,381 --> 00:09:02,553\n還是我的話講太快你還要消化一下其他人可以幫忙回應一下有誰要回應一下這樣我才可以結束這次質詢啊誰可以回應一下對於郭部長所講的那個問題放回郭部長講的那兩個問題\n\n26\n00:09:11,806 --> 00:09:33,437\n台電必須遵照推給你們和安會必須要燃料池空間不足推給地方事實上燃料池目前空間還夠還可以用四年然後呢要地方支持興建乾式儲存不管有沒有廚藝都要興建乾式儲存這個是已經確定從林玄院長開始就已經確定要建立了對我們是需要乾式儲存毫無問題\n\n27\n00:09:36,089 --> 00:09:52,421\n主委我真的觉得你可能需要在这样的一个讯息上面可能需要多一点努力否则从我后面那几个委员上台质询的时候呢可怕都没有办法达到他们最需要的好我综合最后我们需要更多的河岸人才我们需要更多\n\n28\n00:09:53,402 --> 00:10:14,409\n很多的核能技术的这样子的一个所谓的前置的一个作业然后呢我们更是需要有更正确的讯息来告诉我们到底未来我们新式的核能到底有没有机会再往前走这是主问你身为一个核工背景的人应该为你后面的这样子的背景来做一个最大的一个认证跟背书可以吗谢谢谢谢文言\n\n29\n00:10:17,773 --> 00:10:24,613\n好謝謝柯之恩委員主委請回主委你這種出登場的表現實在是不盡人意\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n530\t8322\t科資恩委員進行質詢謝謝周阿偉 我們是不是請陳主委好 有請陳主委\n17071\t37451\t主委好你好主委好你这是应该是上任之后第一次上台备选吗是的好我们来看一下因为你过去来说你在2022年的时候曾经有一个媒体的投书你认为我们绿能是严重的落后所以说在核电厂跟部分火力发电厂陆迅群下\n38212\t66463\t很担心这个所谓的这个供电不稳所以建议我们非核家运应该延长到2035年主委你这样的过去的说法你现在还认同吗谢谢委员当时时空背景是第四接收站环境没有通过对了所以我说你现在还是认不认为应该延到2035对您过去的说法你像是反驳还是继续延续\n70339\t95834\t这是属于国家的这也是国安的议题了我认为这个能源问题也是国安议题我当然知道我这问题说你现在还赞不赞成你2022年媒体投书的说法你认为担心这个电力的不稳定所以你认为非核家园应该延到2035我现在只问一个非常单纯的问题对你过去的\n97150\t107117\t的论点你现在还认为应该持续呢还是如何行为稍微耐心点稍微简单说明一下你认不认同只有一句话\n109841\t134063\t对于你2035应该延到2035你过去2020是你投书的当然如果这样讲好了如果我只有6分钟啊2035年的话可以减轻我们这压力是真的可以减轻我们的压力嘛对不对所以你认为说2035可能是一个虽然目前为止我们和三也要除役了我现在只是希望主委你过去根据你的专业你是难得一个我们合工背景然后站在这个位置上面\n134343\t163319\t我觉得这个东西你要为你自己过去的言论来做一个背书因为呢我们知道你也特别提到因为能源政策是一个国家最上位的一个政策嘛那你遇到瓶颈的时候嘛你就必须要懂得一个变通然后呢所以我才会特别问您这句话你到底能够为新的核能做哪一些的努力这是我今天问的部分所以你的回应是什么你说新能源是吧我意思说你是不是到目前为止任务的能源政策是不是应该还有更具有弹性变通的能力\n165774\t169021\t這個是需要各方討論的我們也說過\n171707\t198878\t这个要核安核废料可以得到安全处置这个部分那个主委这个东西蓝绿从过去到现在都一直在核安跟核废料这两个问题在做一些讨论所以不容您多赘述我只是要跟您特别的问一下因为我们都这个能源政策非常重要目前来说也非常多新的核能技术不断在发展但是呢很显然目前只有你们的国研院\n199778\t227352\t正在执行跟国科会有关的和融合的基础的研究中研院甚至表示他们并没有这样子的能量来做新核能的研究但是你稍微看一下我是为你们在教学我们你们的国研院找了这么多的专家结果你们第一期的计划只有1133万整体计划也只有3500万第二期更不要讲也其实只有6000万到7000万依你的专业的判断你觉得国家\n228052\t240598\t投入這些資源可以跟上國際的腳步嗎我們確實需要加大腳步投資你這個加大腳步加大到多少美國每年投資大概是251億中國大陸大概是投資472億我們目前為止最多大概就是7000萬這個已經不是加大角度了\n248601\t263344\t所以就可以顯示當政府不但告訴我們這是有很多的彈性我們也很希望有很多新的技術可是顯現在一個數字上面來說你會發現他是完全沒有在這一塊面要多做努力的郭院長高院長你應該也同意吧你這些經費來說的話報告那個立委我們事實上合龍河這個技術你認為錢夠不夠嗎你們講太多了我時間很有限我先說明一下這個技術應該\n279457\t293957\t近10年到20年應該不可能會產生所以這樣的經費就夠了目前投入研發適當的經費這樣就夠了所以說美國核融核的這個研究你們看到之後你都不覺得這個部分裡面政府應該追上他們的腳步\n294938\t315855\t好OK然后呢特别是当全世界都在对这个所谓的新的核能技术展开的时候我们需要非常多的人才我特别提到嘛很多时候呢像过去有很多的这个企业界大佬还有特别提到的过去清大和工系是相当认为这是主委你当初毕业的可惜在场有非常多勤大的现在目前来说呢光是要招生都非常的困难而且你们还改了一个名字这个名字说实在的\n322941\t340235\t叫做工程与系统科学系就是不要把合工这两个字放出来以前在我那个年代是师商还是非常的非常多人愿意学习的然后呢你看我们再看下面所以具有美国官方背景的爱德哈国家实验室到了我们这个系栏里面\n340595\t365848\t他甚至开出了美金九万五千大概月薪二十四万五千的台币想要来挖掘我们的人才所以说呢你会发现特别是我想诸位你也知道你过去来说合工背景的过去沉寂一段时间但是最近是实在是非常的热门当我们的人才培养好当你完全没有的时候以后万一真的有任何核能或是新的技术在家你要再把这些人才找\n367009\t372477\t回来已经是不太容易了所以说主委你面对这样的状况你难道不会有任何一点感触吗\n375331\t384955\t確實我們核能人才過去二線流失的很多確實我們要在這方面要加強包括你的經費你自己的說法你的各方面你如何能夠說服這些人我們要加強人才更不要說之前我也問到了可能台電要撤裁這個核發處然後呢他馬上澄清說沒有他們只是來做一個工作內容調整我再一次去了解以後他們就是打算把\n401843\t420768\t核发处跟核能技术出来合并很多人除了继续做这个厨艺工作之外多余的人力都会把转到大潭新达电厂核工专业的人被丢到火力电厂主委你身为一个核工人难道你不会对这样的状况有任何觉得要为核工人说几句话吗这是核工人的风骨哎\n426192\t441141\t確實我們的核能方面的人才有嚴重的斷層不管是各方面 從台電也好 原能會也好都有嚴重斷層確實我們需要加強這方面人才培育第二 我們要盡量保持\n442202\t459872\t先有人你能保持下来不要再不让他再流失你连你连这个河安你连河南会被降到四级然后呢很多地方大家就想这样的一个单位每次问到你们这个部分你们只是在把这个河岸我最后讲那个招待再给我一分钟就很好\n460632\t485152\t核二核三厂的研议的问题我还是要强调这是问到这个郭智慧经济部长的时候他说必须遵照40年的一个规范这没有问题大家都知道所以我们当初只是希望能够更有弹性的一个做法但是很显然目前蓝绿都没有共识第二个核三二号机燃料池不足要解决这个问题这是经济部长所提到的要解决也解决燃料池的问题但是我问了\n485692\t499647\t我特别发寒去问的结果告诉我们燃料池上有空间而且呢室内干储场即将要招标不管你要不要厨艺不管你有没有研艺说实在的室内的干式储存厂就是一定要干没错吧\n500882\t507944\t所以不要用這兩個理由來告訴我們沒有這兩個理由解決沒有辦法往下走事實上他把這些所有的問題要嘛就丟給你們河岸會要嘛就丟給地方事實上呢這兩個問題都不會是問題因為從林全院長開始就已經告訴大家室內乾式儲存場本來就是要設立不管有沒有廚藝所以剛剛郭志輝部長所講的那兩個問題其實只是在顯示政府不斷的告訴我們有彈性的空間但是呢他們一點都不想做你同意吧\n532381\t542553\t還是我的話講太快你還要消化一下其他人可以幫忙回應一下有誰要回應一下這樣我才可以結束這次質詢啊誰可以回應一下對於郭部長所講的那個問題放回郭部長講的那兩個問題\n551806\t573437\t台電必須遵照推給你們和安會必須要燃料池空間不足推給地方事實上燃料池目前空間還夠還可以用四年然後呢要地方支持興建乾式儲存不管有沒有廚藝都要興建乾式儲存這個是已經確定從林玄院長開始就已經確定要建立了對我們是需要乾式儲存毫無問題\n576089\t592421\t主委我真的觉得你可能需要在这样的一个讯息上面可能需要多一点努力否则从我后面那几个委员上台质询的时候呢可怕都没有办法达到他们最需要的好我综合最后我们需要更多的河岸人才我们需要更多\n593402\t614409\t很多的核能技术的这样子的一个所谓的前置的一个作业然后呢我们更是需要有更正确的讯息来告诉我们到底未来我们新式的核能到底有没有机会再往前走这是主问你身为一个核工背景的人应该为你后面的这样子的背景来做一个最大的一个认证跟背书可以吗谢谢谢谢文言\n617773\t624613\t好 謝謝柯之恩委員主委請回主委你這種出登場的表現實在是不盡人意\n","txt":"科資恩委員進行質詢謝謝周阿偉 我們是不是請陳主委好 有請陳主委\n主委好你好主委好你这是应该是上任之后第一次上台备选吗是的好我们来看一下因为你过去来说你在2022年的时候曾经有一个媒体的投书你认为我们绿能是严重的落后所以说在核电厂跟部分火力发电厂陆迅群下\n很担心这个所谓的这个供电不稳所以建议我们非核家运应该延长到2035年主委你这样的过去的说法你现在还认同吗谢谢委员当时时空背景是第四接收站环境没有通过对了所以我说你现在还是认不认为应该延到2035对您过去的说法你像是反驳还是继续延续\n这是属于国家的这也是国安的议题了我认为这个能源问题也是国安议题我当然知道我这问题说你现在还赞不赞成你2022年媒体投书的说法你认为担心这个电力的不稳定所以你认为非核家园应该延到2035我现在只问一个非常单纯的问题对你过去的\n的论点你现在还认为应该持续呢还是如何行为稍微耐心点稍微简单说明一下你认不认同只有一句话\n对于你2035应该延到2035你过去2020是你投书的当然如果这样讲好了如果我只有6分钟啊2035年的话可以减轻我们这压力是真的可以减轻我们的压力嘛对不对所以你认为说2035可能是一个虽然目前为止我们和三也要除役了我现在只是希望主委你过去根据你的专业你是难得一个我们合工背景然后站在这个位置上面\n我觉得这个东西你要为你自己过去的言论来做一个背书因为呢我们知道你也特别提到因为能源政策是一个国家最上位的一个政策嘛那你遇到瓶颈的时候嘛你就必须要懂得一个变通然后呢所以我才会特别问您这句话你到底能够为新的核能做哪一些的努力这是我今天问的部分所以你的回应是什么你说新能源是吧我意思说你是不是到目前为止任务的能源政策是不是应该还有更具有弹性变通的能力\n這個是需要各方討論的我們也說過\n这个要核安核废料可以得到安全处置这个部分那个主委这个东西蓝绿从过去到现在都一直在核安跟核废料这两个问题在做一些讨论所以不容您多赘述我只是要跟您特别的问一下因为我们都这个能源政策非常重要目前来说也非常多新的核能技术不断在发展但是呢很显然目前只有你们的国研院\n正在执行跟国科会有关的和融合的基础的研究中研院甚至表示他们并没有这样子的能量来做新核能的研究但是你稍微看一下我是为你们在教学我们你们的国研院找了这么多的专家结果你们第一期的计划只有1133万整体计划也只有3500万第二期更不要讲也其实只有6000万到7000万依你的专业的判断你觉得国家\n投入這些資源可以跟上國際的腳步嗎我們確實需要加大腳步投資你這個加大腳步加大到多少美國每年投資大概是251億中國大陸大概是投資472億我們目前為止最多大概就是7000萬這個已經不是加大角度了\n所以就可以顯示當政府不但告訴我們這是有很多的彈性我們也很希望有很多新的技術可是顯現在一個數字上面來說你會發現他是完全沒有在這一塊面要多做努力的郭院長高院長你應該也同意吧你這些經費來說的話報告那個立委我們事實上合龍河這個技術你認為錢夠不夠嗎你們講太多了我時間很有限我先說明一下這個技術應該\n近10年到20年應該不可能會產生所以這樣的經費就夠了目前投入研發適當的經費這樣就夠了所以說美國核融核的這個研究你們看到之後你都不覺得這個部分裡面政府應該追上他們的腳步\n好OK然后呢特别是当全世界都在对这个所谓的新的核能技术展开的时候我们需要非常多的人才我特别提到嘛很多时候呢像过去有很多的这个企业界大佬还有特别提到的过去清大和工系是相当认为这是主委你当初毕业的可惜在场有非常多勤大的现在目前来说呢光是要招生都非常的困难而且你们还改了一个名字这个名字说实在的\n叫做工程与系统科学系就是不要把合工这两个字放出来以前在我那个年代是师商还是非常的非常多人愿意学习的然后呢你看我们再看下面所以具有美国官方背景的爱德哈国家实验室到了我们这个系栏里面\n他甚至开出了美金九万五千大概月薪二十四万五千的台币想要来挖掘我们的人才所以说呢你会发现特别是我想诸位你也知道你过去来说合工背景的过去沉寂一段时间但是最近是实在是非常的热门当我们的人才培养好当你完全没有的时候以后万一真的有任何核能或是新的技术在家你要再把这些人才找\n回来已经是不太容易了所以说主委你面对这样的状况你难道不会有任何一点感触吗\n確實我們核能人才過去二線流失的很多確實我們要在這方面要加強包括你的經費你自己的說法你的各方面你如何能夠說服這些人我們要加強人才更不要說之前我也問到了可能台電要撤裁這個核發處然後呢他馬上澄清說沒有他們只是來做一個工作內容調整我再一次去了解以後他們就是打算把\n核发处跟核能技术出来合并很多人除了继续做这个厨艺工作之外多余的人力都会把转到大潭新达电厂核工专业的人被丢到火力电厂主委你身为一个核工人难道你不会对这样的状况有任何觉得要为核工人说几句话吗这是核工人的风骨哎\n確實我們的核能方面的人才有嚴重的斷層不管是各方面 從台電也好 原能會也好都有嚴重斷層確實我們需要加強這方面人才培育第二 我們要盡量保持\n先有人你能保持下来不要再不让他再流失你连你连这个河安你连河南会被降到四级然后呢很多地方大家就想这样的一个单位每次问到你们这个部分你们只是在把这个河岸我最后讲那个招待再给我一分钟就很好\n核二核三厂的研议的问题我还是要强调这是问到这个郭智慧经济部长的时候他说必须遵照40年的一个规范这没有问题大家都知道所以我们当初只是希望能够更有弹性的一个做法但是很显然目前蓝绿都没有共识第二个核三二号机燃料池不足要解决这个问题这是经济部长所提到的要解决也解决燃料池的问题但是我问了\n我特别发寒去问的结果告诉我们燃料池上有空间而且呢室内干储场即将要招标不管你要不要厨艺不管你有没有研艺说实在的室内的干式储存厂就是一定要干没错吧\n所以不要用這兩個理由來告訴我們沒有這兩個理由解決沒有辦法往下走事實上他把這些所有的問題要嘛就丟給你們河岸會要嘛就丟給地方事實上呢這兩個問題都不會是問題因為從林全院長開始就已經告訴大家室內乾式儲存場本來就是要設立不管有沒有廚藝所以剛剛郭志輝部長所講的那兩個問題其實只是在顯示政府不斷的告訴我們有彈性的空間但是呢他們一點都不想做你同意吧\n還是我的話講太快你還要消化一下其他人可以幫忙回應一下有誰要回應一下這樣我才可以結束這次質詢啊誰可以回應一下對於郭部長所講的那個問題放回郭部長講的那兩個問題\n台電必須遵照推給你們和安會必須要燃料池空間不足推給地方事實上燃料池目前空間還夠還可以用四年然後呢要地方支持興建乾式儲存不管有沒有廚藝都要興建乾式儲存這個是已經確定從林玄院長開始就已經確定要建立了對我們是需要乾式儲存毫無問題\n主委我真的觉得你可能需要在这样的一个讯息上面可能需要多一点努力否则从我后面那几个委员上台质询的时候呢可怕都没有办法达到他们最需要的好我综合最后我们需要更多的河岸人才我们需要更多\n很多的核能技术的这样子的一个所谓的前置的一个作业然后呢我们更是需要有更正确的讯息来告诉我们到底未来我们新式的核能到底有没有机会再往前走这是主问你身为一个核工背景的人应该为你后面的这样子的背景来做一个最大的一个认证跟背书可以吗谢谢谢谢文言\n好 謝謝柯之恩委員主委請回主委你這種出登場的表現實在是不盡人意\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.530 --> 00:08.322\n科資恩委員進行質詢謝謝周阿偉我們是不是請陳主委好有請陳主委\n\n00:17.071 --> 00:37.451\n主委好你好主委好你这是应该是上任之后第一次上台备选吗是的好我们来看一下因为你过去来说你在2022年的时候曾经有一个媒体的投书你认为我们绿能是严重的落后所以说在核电厂跟部分火力发电厂陆迅群下\n\n00:38.212 --> 01:06.463\n很担心这个所谓的这个供电不稳所以建议我们非核家运应该延长到2035年主委你这样的过去的说法你现在还认同吗谢谢委员当时时空背景是第四接收站环境没有通过对了所以我说你现在还是认不认为应该延到2035对您过去的说法你像是反驳还是继续延续\n\n01:10.339 --> 01:35.834\n这是属于国家的这也是国安的议题了我认为这个能源问题也是国安议题我当然知道我这问题说你现在还赞不赞成你2022年媒体投书的说法你认为担心这个电力的不稳定所以你认为非核家园应该延到2035我现在只问一个非常单纯的问题对你过去的\n\n01:37.150 --> 01:47.117\n的论点你现在还认为应该持续呢还是如何行为稍微耐心点稍微简单说明一下你认不认同只有一句话\n\n01:49.841 --> 02:14.063\n对于你2035应该延到2035你过去2020是你投书的当然如果这样讲好了如果我只有6分钟啊2035年的话可以减轻我们这压力是真的可以减轻我们的压力嘛对不对所以你认为说2035可能是一个虽然目前为止我们和三也要除役了我现在只是希望主委你过去根据你的专业你是难得一个我们合工背景然后站在这个位置上面\n\n02:14.343 --> 02:43.319\n我觉得这个东西你要为你自己过去的言论来做一个背书因为呢我们知道你也特别提到因为能源政策是一个国家最上位的一个政策嘛那你遇到瓶颈的时候嘛你就必须要懂得一个变通然后呢所以我才会特别问您这句话你到底能够为新的核能做哪一些的努力这是我今天问的部分所以你的回应是什么你说新能源是吧我意思说你是不是到目前为止任务的能源政策是不是应该还有更具有弹性变通的能力\n\n02:45.774 --> 02:49.021\n這個是需要各方討論的我們也說過\n\n02:51.707 --> 03:18.878\n这个要核安核废料可以得到安全处置这个部分那个主委这个东西蓝绿从过去到现在都一直在核安跟核废料这两个问题在做一些讨论所以不容您多赘述我只是要跟您特别的问一下因为我们都这个能源政策非常重要目前来说也非常多新的核能技术不断在发展但是呢很显然目前只有你们的国研院\n\n03:19.778 --> 03:47.352\n正在执行跟国科会有关的和融合的基础的研究中研院甚至表示他们并没有这样子的能量来做新核能的研究但是你稍微看一下我是为你们在教学我们你们的国研院找了这么多的专家结果你们第一期的计划只有1133万整体计划也只有3500万第二期更不要讲也其实只有6000万到7000万依你的专业的判断你觉得国家\n\n03:48.052 --> 04:00.598\n投入這些資源可以跟上國際的腳步嗎我們確實需要加大腳步投資你這個加大腳步加大到多少美國每年投資大概是251億中國大陸大概是投資472億我們目前為止最多大概就是7000萬這個已經不是加大角度了\n\n04:08.601 --> 04:23.344\n所以就可以顯示當政府不但告訴我們這是有很多的彈性我們也很希望有很多新的技術可是顯現在一個數字上面來說你會發現他是完全沒有在這一塊面要多做努力的郭院長高院長你應該也同意吧你這些經費來說的話報告那個立委我們事實上合龍河這個技術你認為錢夠不夠嗎你們講太多了我時間很有限我先說明一下這個技術應該\n\n04:39.457 --> 04:53.957\n近10年到20年應該不可能會產生所以這樣的經費就夠了目前投入研發適當的經費這樣就夠了所以說美國核融核的這個研究你們看到之後你都不覺得這個部分裡面政府應該追上他們的腳步\n\n04:54.938 --> 05:15.855\n好OK然后呢特别是当全世界都在对这个所谓的新的核能技术展开的时候我们需要非常多的人才我特别提到嘛很多时候呢像过去有很多的这个企业界大佬还有特别提到的过去清大和工系是相当认为这是主委你当初毕业的可惜在场有非常多勤大的现在目前来说呢光是要招生都非常的困难而且你们还改了一个名字这个名字说实在的\n\n05:22.941 --> 05:40.235\n叫做工程与系统科学系就是不要把合工这两个字放出来以前在我那个年代是师商还是非常的非常多人愿意学习的然后呢你看我们再看下面所以具有美国官方背景的爱德哈国家实验室到了我们这个系栏里面\n\n05:40.595 --> 06:05.848\n他甚至开出了美金九万五千大概月薪二十四万五千的台币想要来挖掘我们的人才所以说呢你会发现特别是我想诸位你也知道你过去来说合工背景的过去沉寂一段时间但是最近是实在是非常的热门当我们的人才培养好当你完全没有的时候以后万一真的有任何核能或是新的技术在家你要再把这些人才找\n\n06:07.009 --> 06:12.477\n回来已经是不太容易了所以说主委你面对这样的状况你难道不会有任何一点感触吗\n\n06:15.331 --> 06:24.955\n確實我們核能人才過去二線流失的很多確實我們要在這方面要加強包括你的經費你自己的說法你的各方面你如何能夠說服這些人我們要加強人才更不要說之前我也問到了可能台電要撤裁這個核發處然後呢他馬上澄清說沒有他們只是來做一個工作內容調整我再一次去了解以後他們就是打算把\n\n06:41.843 --> 07:00.768\n核发处跟核能技术出来合并很多人除了继续做这个厨艺工作之外多余的人力都会把转到大潭新达电厂核工专业的人被丢到火力电厂主委你身为一个核工人难道你不会对这样的状况有任何觉得要为核工人说几句话吗这是核工人的风骨哎\n\n07:06.192 --> 07:21.141\n確實我們的核能方面的人才有嚴重的斷層不管是各方面從台電也好原能會也好都有嚴重斷層確實我們需要加強這方面人才培育第二我們要盡量保持\n\n07:22.202 --> 07:39.872\n先有人你能保持下来不要再不让他再流失你连你连这个河安你连河南会被降到四级然后呢很多地方大家就想这样的一个单位每次问到你们这个部分你们只是在把这个河岸我最后讲那个招待再给我一分钟就很好\n\n07:40.632 --> 08:05.152\n核二核三厂的研议的问题我还是要强调这是问到这个郭智慧经济部长的时候他说必须遵照40年的一个规范这没有问题大家都知道所以我们当初只是希望能够更有弹性的一个做法但是很显然目前蓝绿都没有共识第二个核三二号机燃料池不足要解决这个问题这是经济部长所提到的要解决也解决燃料池的问题但是我问了\n\n08:05.692 --> 08:19.647\n我特别发寒去问的结果告诉我们燃料池上有空间而且呢室内干储场即将要招标不管你要不要厨艺不管你有没有研艺说实在的室内的干式储存厂就是一定要干没错吧\n\n08:20.882 --> 08:27.944\n所以不要用這兩個理由來告訴我們沒有這兩個理由解決沒有辦法往下走事實上他把這些所有的問題要嘛就丟給你們河岸會要嘛就丟給地方事實上呢這兩個問題都不會是問題因為從林全院長開始就已經告訴大家室內乾式儲存場本來就是要設立不管有沒有廚藝所以剛剛郭志輝部長所講的那兩個問題其實只是在顯示政府不斷的告訴我們有彈性的空間但是呢他們一點都不想做你同意吧\n\n08:52.381 --> 09:02.553\n還是我的話講太快你還要消化一下其他人可以幫忙回應一下有誰要回應一下這樣我才可以結束這次質詢啊誰可以回應一下對於郭部長所講的那個問題放回郭部長講的那兩個問題\n\n09:11.806 --> 09:33.437\n台電必須遵照推給你們和安會必須要燃料池空間不足推給地方事實上燃料池目前空間還夠還可以用四年然後呢要地方支持興建乾式儲存不管有沒有廚藝都要興建乾式儲存這個是已經確定從林玄院長開始就已經確定要建立了對我們是需要乾式儲存毫無問題\n\n09:36.089 --> 09:52.421\n主委我真的觉得你可能需要在这样的一个讯息上面可能需要多一点努力否则从我后面那几个委员上台质询的时候呢可怕都没有办法达到他们最需要的好我综合最后我们需要更多的河岸人才我们需要更多\n\n09:53.402 --> 10:14.409\n很多的核能技术的这样子的一个所谓的前置的一个作业然后呢我们更是需要有更正确的讯息来告诉我们到底未来我们新式的核能到底有没有机会再往前走这是主问你身为一个核工背景的人应该为你后面的这样子的背景来做一个最大的一个认证跟背书可以吗谢谢谢谢文言\n\n10:17.773 --> 10:24.613\n好謝謝柯之恩委員主委請回主委你這種出登場的表現實在是不盡人意\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.53,"end":8.322,"text":"科資恩委員進行質詢謝謝周阿偉 我們是不是請陳主委好 有請陳主委"},{"start":17.071,"end":37.451,"text":"主委好你好主委好你这是应该是上任之后第一次上台备选吗是的好我们来看一下因为你过去来说你在2022年的时候曾经有一个媒体的投书你认为我们绿能是严重的落后所以说在核电厂跟部分火力发电厂陆迅群下"},{"start":38.212,"end":66.463,"text":"很担心这个所谓的这个供电不稳所以建议我们非核家运应该延长到2035年主委你这样的过去的说法你现在还认同吗谢谢委员当时时空背景是第四接收站环境没有通过对了所以我说你现在还是认不认为应该延到2035对您过去的说法你像是反驳还是继续延续"},{"start":70.339,"end":95.834,"text":"这是属于国家的这也是国安的议题了我认为这个能源问题也是国安议题我当然知道我这问题说你现在还赞不赞成你2022年媒体投书的说法你认为担心这个电力的不稳定所以你认为非核家园应该延到2035我现在只问一个非常单纯的问题对你过去的"},{"start":97.15,"end":107.117,"text":"的论点你现在还认为应该持续呢还是如何行为稍微耐心点稍微简单说明一下你认不认同只有一句话"},{"start":109.841,"end":134.063,"text":"对于你2035应该延到2035你过去2020是你投书的当然如果这样讲好了如果我只有6分钟啊2035年的话可以减轻我们这压力是真的可以减轻我们的压力嘛对不对所以你认为说2035可能是一个虽然目前为止我们和三也要除役了我现在只是希望主委你过去根据你的专业你是难得一个我们合工背景然后站在这个位置上面"},{"start":134.343,"end":163.319,"text":"我觉得这个东西你要为你自己过去的言论来做一个背书因为呢我们知道你也特别提到因为能源政策是一个国家最上位的一个政策嘛那你遇到瓶颈的时候嘛你就必须要懂得一个变通然后呢所以我才会特别问您这句话你到底能够为新的核能做哪一些的努力这是我今天问的部分所以你的回应是什么你说新能源是吧我意思说你是不是到目前为止任务的能源政策是不是应该还有更具有弹性变通的能力"},{"start":165.774,"end":169.021,"text":"這個是需要各方討論的我們也說過"},{"start":171.707,"end":198.878,"text":"这个要核安核废料可以得到安全处置这个部分那个主委这个东西蓝绿从过去到现在都一直在核安跟核废料这两个问题在做一些讨论所以不容您多赘述我只是要跟您特别的问一下因为我们都这个能源政策非常重要目前来说也非常多新的核能技术不断在发展但是呢很显然目前只有你们的国研院"},{"start":199.778,"end":227.352,"text":"正在执行跟国科会有关的和融合的基础的研究中研院甚至表示他们并没有这样子的能量来做新核能的研究但是你稍微看一下我是为你们在教学我们你们的国研院找了这么多的专家结果你们第一期的计划只有1133万整体计划也只有3500万第二期更不要讲也其实只有6000万到7000万依你的专业的判断你觉得国家"},{"start":228.052,"end":240.598,"text":"投入這些資源可以跟上國際的腳步嗎我們確實需要加大腳步投資你這個加大腳步加大到多少美國每年投資大概是251億中國大陸大概是投資472億我們目前為止最多大概就是7000萬這個已經不是加大角度了"},{"start":248.601,"end":263.344,"text":"所以就可以顯示當政府不但告訴我們這是有很多的彈性我們也很希望有很多新的技術可是顯現在一個數字上面來說你會發現他是完全沒有在這一塊面要多做努力的郭院長高院長你應該也同意吧你這些經費來說的話報告那個立委我們事實上合龍河這個技術你認為錢夠不夠嗎你們講太多了我時間很有限我先說明一下這個技術應該"},{"start":279.457,"end":293.957,"text":"近10年到20年應該不可能會產生所以這樣的經費就夠了目前投入研發適當的經費這樣就夠了所以說美國核融核的這個研究你們看到之後你都不覺得這個部分裡面政府應該追上他們的腳步"},{"start":294.938,"end":315.855,"text":"好OK然后呢特别是当全世界都在对这个所谓的新的核能技术展开的时候我们需要非常多的人才我特别提到嘛很多时候呢像过去有很多的这个企业界大佬还有特别提到的过去清大和工系是相当认为这是主委你当初毕业的可惜在场有非常多勤大的现在目前来说呢光是要招生都非常的困难而且你们还改了一个名字这个名字说实在的"},{"start":322.941,"end":340.235,"text":"叫做工程与系统科学系就是不要把合工这两个字放出来以前在我那个年代是师商还是非常的非常多人愿意学习的然后呢你看我们再看下面所以具有美国官方背景的爱德哈国家实验室到了我们这个系栏里面"},{"start":340.595,"end":365.848,"text":"他甚至开出了美金九万五千大概月薪二十四万五千的台币想要来挖掘我们的人才所以说呢你会发现特别是我想诸位你也知道你过去来说合工背景的过去沉寂一段时间但是最近是实在是非常的热门当我们的人才培养好当你完全没有的时候以后万一真的有任何核能或是新的技术在家你要再把这些人才找"},{"start":367.009,"end":372.477,"text":"回来已经是不太容易了所以说主委你面对这样的状况你难道不会有任何一点感触吗"},{"start":375.331,"end":384.955,"text":"確實我們核能人才過去二線流失的很多確實我們要在這方面要加強包括你的經費你自己的說法你的各方面你如何能夠說服這些人我們要加強人才更不要說之前我也問到了可能台電要撤裁這個核發處然後呢他馬上澄清說沒有他們只是來做一個工作內容調整我再一次去了解以後他們就是打算把"},{"start":401.843,"end":420.768,"text":"核发处跟核能技术出来合并很多人除了继续做这个厨艺工作之外多余的人力都会把转到大潭新达电厂核工专业的人被丢到火力电厂主委你身为一个核工人难道你不会对这样的状况有任何觉得要为核工人说几句话吗这是核工人的风骨哎"},{"start":426.192,"end":441.141,"text":"確實我們的核能方面的人才有嚴重的斷層不管是各方面 從台電也好 原能會也好都有嚴重斷層確實我們需要加強這方面人才培育第二 我們要盡量保持"},{"start":442.202,"end":459.872,"text":"先有人你能保持下来不要再不让他再流失你连你连这个河安你连河南会被降到四级然后呢很多地方大家就想这样的一个单位每次问到你们这个部分你们只是在把这个河岸我最后讲那个招待再给我一分钟就很好"},{"start":460.632,"end":485.152,"text":"核二核三厂的研议的问题我还是要强调这是问到这个郭智慧经济部长的时候他说必须遵照40年的一个规范这没有问题大家都知道所以我们当初只是希望能够更有弹性的一个做法但是很显然目前蓝绿都没有共识第二个核三二号机燃料池不足要解决这个问题这是经济部长所提到的要解决也解决燃料池的问题但是我问了"},{"start":485.692,"end":499.647,"text":"我特别发寒去问的结果告诉我们燃料池上有空间而且呢室内干储场即将要招标不管你要不要厨艺不管你有没有研艺说实在的室内的干式储存厂就是一定要干没错吧"},{"start":500.882,"end":507.944,"text":"所以不要用這兩個理由來告訴我們沒有這兩個理由解決沒有辦法往下走事實上他把這些所有的問題要嘛就丟給你們河岸會要嘛就丟給地方事實上呢這兩個問題都不會是問題因為從林全院長開始就已經告訴大家室內乾式儲存場本來就是要設立不管有沒有廚藝所以剛剛郭志輝部長所講的那兩個問題其實只是在顯示政府不斷的告訴我們有彈性的空間但是呢他們一點都不想做你同意吧"},{"start":532.381,"end":542.553,"text":"還是我的話講太快你還要消化一下其他人可以幫忙回應一下有誰要回應一下這樣我才可以結束這次質詢啊誰可以回應一下對於郭部長所講的那個問題放回郭部長講的那兩個問題"},{"start":551.806,"end":573.437,"text":"台電必須遵照推給你們和安會必須要燃料池空間不足推給地方事實上燃料池目前空間還夠還可以用四年然後呢要地方支持興建乾式儲存不管有沒有廚藝都要興建乾式儲存這個是已經確定從林玄院長開始就已經確定要建立了對我們是需要乾式儲存毫無問題"},{"start":576.089,"end":592.421,"text":"主委我真的觉得你可能需要在这样的一个讯息上面可能需要多一点努力否则从我后面那几个委员上台质询的时候呢可怕都没有办法达到他们最需要的好我综合最后我们需要更多的河岸人才我们需要更多"},{"start":593.402,"end":614.409,"text":"很多的核能技术的这样子的一个所谓的前置的一个作业然后呢我们更是需要有更正确的讯息来告诉我们到底未来我们新式的核能到底有没有机会再往前走这是主问你身为一个核工背景的人应该为你后面的这样子的背景来做一个最大的一个认证跟背书可以吗谢谢谢谢文言"},{"start":617.773,"end":624.613,"text":"好 謝謝柯之恩委員主委請回主委你這種出登場的表現實在是不盡人意"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":34,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時13分）謝謝召委，我們是不是請陳主委？"],["主席：有請陳主委。"],["柯委員志恩：主委好。"],["陳主任委員明真：你好、委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：你這是上任之後第一次上台備詢吧？"],["陳主任委員明真：是的。"],["柯委員志恩：我們來看一下，你過去在2022年的時候曾經有一個媒體投書，認為我們綠能是嚴重地落後，所以在核電廠跟部分火力發電廠陸續除役之下，很擔心所謂的供電不穩，建議非核家園應該延長到2035年。主委對於這個過去的說法，現在還認同嗎？"],["陳主任委員明真：謝謝委員。當時的時空背景是第四接收站環評沒有通過……"],["柯委員志恩：對啦！所以我說你現在還認不認為應該要延到2035年？對於您過去的說法，你現在是反駁還是繼續延續？"],["陳主任委員明真：這已經是國安的議題了，我認為能源的問題也是國安議題。"],["柯委員志恩：我當然知道，我是問你現在還贊不贊成2022年媒體投書的說法，你擔心電力不穩定，所以你認為非核家園應該延到2035年？我現在只問一個非常單純的問題，對於你過去的論點，你現在認為應該持續，還是如何？"],["陳主任委員明真：請委員稍微耐心點，我稍微簡單說明一下。"],["柯委員志恩：你認不認同？就一句話！對於你過去在2022年投書的，表示要延到2035年……"],["陳主任委員明真：這麼講好了，如果……"],["柯委員志恩：我只有6分鐘，召委這個……"],["陳主任委員明真：如果可以延到2035年，可以減輕我們的壓力，也是真的。"],["柯委員志恩：可以減輕我們的壓力嘛，對不對？所以你認為2035年可能是一個……到目前為止，我們核三也要除役了，我現在只是希望主委，過去你根據你的專業，你是我們難得具有核工背景、能站在這個位置上的，我覺得這個東西你要為你自己過去的言論背書。","我們知道你特別提到，因為能源政策是一個國家最上位的政策，你遇到瓶頸的時候就必須懂得變通，所以我才會特別問您這句話，你到底能夠為新的核能做哪些努力？這是我今天問你的部分，所以你的回應是什麼？"],["陳主任委員明真：你是說新能源嗎？"],["柯委員志恩：我是說，你是不是到目前為止，仍認為我們的能源政策應該更具有彈性、變通的能力？"],["陳主任委員明真：這個需要跟各方討論，我想我也說過，核安、核廢料可以得到安全處置，然後取得共識的話，我們會……"],["柯委員志恩：這個部分，主委，這個東西藍綠從過去到現在都一直在核安跟核廢料這兩個問題在討論，所以不容您多贅述。我只是要跟您特別問一下，因為我們都認為能源政策非常重要，目前也有非常多新的核能技術不斷在發展，但是很顯然目前只有你們國原院正在執行跟國科會有關核融合的基礎研究，中研院甚至表示他們並沒有這樣的能量來做新核能的研究。但是你稍微看一下，我是為你們在叫屈，你們的國原院找了這麼多的專家，結果你們第一期的計畫只有1,133萬，整體計畫也只有3,500萬；第二期更不要講，其實也只有6,000萬到7,000萬，依你專業的判斷，你覺得國家投入這些資源可以跟得上國際的腳步嗎？"],["陳主任委員明真：我們確實需要加大腳步投資這方面。"],["柯委員志恩：你這個加大腳步是要加大到多少？美國每年大概是投資251億，中國大陸大概是投資472億，我們目前為止，最多大概就是7,000萬，這個已經不是加大腳步了，所以這就顯示，當政府不斷告訴我們這事有很多彈性，我們也很希望有很多新的技術，可是顯現在數字上來說，你會發現它是完全沒有在這方面要多做努力的。國原院高院長應該也同意吧？以這些經費來說的話。"],["高院長梓木：報告立委，事實上，核融合這個技術……"],["柯委員志恩：你認為錢夠不夠？你們講太多了，我時間很有限，你只要告訴我……"],["高院長梓木：我先說明一下，這個技術近10年到20年應該不可能會產生……"],["柯委員志恩：所以這樣的經費就夠了？"],["高院長梓木：目前投入研發適當的經費就合……"],["柯委員志恩：這樣就夠了，所以你們看到美國核融合的研究之後，都不覺得這個部分政府應該追上他們的腳步？OK。特別是當全世界都在對這個所謂新核能技術展開的時候，我們需要非常多的人才。我要特別提到，很多時候，像過去就有很多企業界大老有特別提到，過去清大核工系是相當熱門，這是主委當初畢業的科系，在場也有非常多清大人，以目前來說，光是要招生都非常困難，而且你們還改了一個名字，這個名字叫做「工程與系統科學系」，說實在的，就是不要把「核工」這兩個字放出來。以前在我那個年代，事實上還是非常多人願意學習的。然後我們再看下面，具有美國官方背景的愛達荷國家實驗室到了我們這個系甚至開出美金9萬5,000（大概月薪24萬5,000臺幣）想挖角我們的人才。所以你會發現，特別是我想主委你也知道，以過去來說，核工背景的曾經沈寂一段時間，但是最近實在是非常熱門。當我們的人才培養好，當你完全沒有的時候，以後萬一真的有任何核能或是新的技術起來，你要再把這些人才找回來就已經不太容易了，所以主委，你面對這樣的狀況，難道都不會有任何一點感觸嗎？"],["陳主任委員明真：確實，我們的核能人才過去20年流失了很多，我們在這方面確實還要加強，包括……"],["柯委員志恩：你的經費、你自己的說法、你的各方面要如何說服這些人，我們要加強人才？更不要說，之前我也問到了，可能台電要裁撤核發處，然後它就馬上澄清說沒有，他們只是做了工作內容的調整。經我再次去瞭解以後，他們就是打算把核發處跟核能技術處合併，很多人除了繼續做這個除役工作之外，多餘的人力都會被轉到大潭、興達電廠。核工專業的人被丟到火力電廠，主委，你身為一個核工人，難道你不會對這樣的狀況有覺得要為核工人說幾句話嗎？這是核工人的風骨耶！"],["陳主任委員明真：確實，我們在核能方面的人才有嚴重的斷層，不管是各方面，從台電也好、原能會也好，都有很嚴重的斷層，我們確實要加強這方面的人才培育；第二，我們要儘量保持現有人力，不要讓他再流失。"],["柯委員志恩：你連核安會被降到四級，很多地方大家都在想，這樣的一個單位，每次問到你們這個部分，你們只是在把這個核安……","我最後要講，召委再給我1分鐘就好。核二、核三廠延役的問題，我還是要強調，這次問到經濟部郭智輝部長的時候，他說必須遵照40年的規範，這沒有問題，大家都知道，所以我們當初只是希望能夠更有彈性的做法，但是很顯然目前藍綠都沒有共識。第二個，核三2號機燃料池不足，要解決這個問題，這是經濟部長所提到的，但是我特別發函去問了，結果卻告訴我們，燃料池尚有空間，而且室內乾貯場即將招標。所以不管要不要除役、不管有沒有延役，說實在的，室內的乾式貯存場就是一定要蓋，沒錯吧？"],["陳主任委員明真：是的。"],["柯委員志恩：所以不要用這兩個理由來告訴我們，這兩個理由沒有解決就沒有辦法往下走，事實上，他把這些所有的問題，要嘛就是丟給你們核安會，要嘛就是丟給地方。事實上這兩個問題都不會是問題，因為從林全院長開始就已經告訴大家，室內乾式貯存場本來就是要設立的，不管有沒有除役，所以剛剛提到郭智輝部長所講的那兩個問題，其實只是顯示政府不斷在告訴我們有彈性的空間，但是他們一點都不想做，你同意吧？還是我的話講太快，你還要消化一下？其他人可以幫忙回應。"],["陳主任委員明真：我還沒完全聽懂。"],["柯委員志恩：有誰要回應一下？這樣我才可以結束這次質詢，誰可以回應一下？對於郭部長所講的那兩個問題──台電必須遵照核安會的規範，推給你們核安會；燃料池空間不足，推給地方。事實上，燃料池目前空間還夠，還可以用4年，然後要地方支持興建乾式貯存，不管有沒有除役都要興建乾式貯存，這個是已經確定的，從林全院長開始，就已經確定要建立了。"],["陳主任委員明真：對，我們是需要乾式貯存，毫無問題。"],["柯委員志恩：主委，我真的覺得你在這樣的訊息上面可能需要多一點努力，否則我後面那幾個委員上臺質詢的時候，你恐怕都沒有辦法達到他們最需要的……","我最後綜合一下，我們需要更多的核安人才，需要更多核能技術這樣子的前置作業，更是需要有更正確的訊息來告訴我們未來新式的核能到底有沒有機會再往前走，主委，你身為一個核工背景的人，應該為你的背景來做一個最大的認證跟背書，可以嗎？"],["陳主任委員明真：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員，主委請回。主委，你這種初登場的表現實在是不盡人意。","再來，我們請葛如鈞召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":490,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-8","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","劉書彬","郭昱晴","葉元之","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","林沛祥","范雲","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","徐富癸","翁曉玲"],"page_start":441,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144202_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144202_00003"}}}