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\"註銷是行政作業啊行政處分是廢紙我們要求他廢紙外交部自己做一個廢紙的行政處分而不是因為我們要他做廢紙的行政處分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"註\"}, {\"word\": \"銷\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 531.781, \"end\": 532.122, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 532.122, \"end\": 532.262, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 532.262, \"end\": 532.443, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 532.443, \"end\": 532.643, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 532.643, \"end\": 533.745, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 533.745, \"end\": 533.906, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 533.906, \"end\": 534.186, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 534.186, \"end\": 534.326, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 534.326, \"end\": 534.727, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"紙\", \"start\": 534.727, \"end\": 534.887, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 534.887, \"end\": 535.068, \"score\": 0.888}, 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736.628, \"end\": 736.849, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 736.849, \"end\": 737.749, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 737.749, \"end\": 737.989, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 737.989, \"end\": 738.769, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 738.769, \"end\": 738.949, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 738.949, \"end\": 739.089, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 739.089, \"end\": 740.13, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"酌\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 740.13, \"end\": 740.27, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 740.27, \"end\": 740.39, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 740.39, \"end\": 740.79, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 740.79, \"end\": 740.95, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 740.95, \"end\": 741.09, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 741.09, \"end\": 742.23, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"函\", \"start\": 742.23, \"end\": 742.49, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 742.49, \"end\": 742.63, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 742.63, \"end\": 742.791, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 742.791, \"end\": 743.531, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 743.531, \"end\": 743.731, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 743.731, \"end\": 743.911, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 743.911, \"end\": 744.211, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 744.211, \"end\": 744.331, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 744.331, \"end\": 744.471, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 744.471, \"end\": 744.491, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 744.491, \"end\": 744.631, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 744.631, \"end\": 744.811, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 744.811, \"end\": 744.951, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 744.951, \"end\": 744.971, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 744.971, \"end\": 744.991, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 748.277, \"end\": 748.297, \"score\": 0.254}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 748.297, \"end\": 748.458, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 748.458, \"end\": 748.518, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 748.518, \"end\": 748.558, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 748.558, \"end\": 748.678, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 748.678, \"end\": 748.718, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 748.718, \"end\": 748.878, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 748.878, \"end\": 749.119, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 749.119, \"end\": 749.419, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 749.419, \"end\": 749.619, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 749.619, \"end\": 749.82, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 749.82, \"end\": 749.9, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 749.9, \"end\": 750.0, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 750.0, \"end\": 750.04, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 750.04, \"end\": 750.12, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 750.12, \"end\": 750.14, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 750.14, \"end\": 750.16, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 750.16, \"end\": 750.2, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 750.2, \"end\": 750.3, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 750.3, \"end\": 750.32, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 750.32, \"end\": 750.38, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 750.38, \"end\": 750.541, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 750.541, \"end\": 750.821, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 750.821, \"end\": 750.981, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 750.981, \"end\": 751.202, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 751.202, \"end\": 751.983, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 751.983, \"end\": 752.023, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 752.023, \"end\": 752.103, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 752.103, \"end\": 752.243, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 752.243, \"end\": 752.403, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 752.403, \"end\": 752.584, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 752.584, \"end\": 752.804, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 752.804, \"end\": 752.824, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:42,465\n主席我們請黃副秘書長副秘書長法務部要嗎?先請副秘書長副秘書長,謝謝委員早安副秘書長早安我們今天回到我們今天的所列議程我們今天總共刑事訴訟法有四個法條的修法\n\n2\n00:00:43,649 --> 00:01:05,543\n那這個我都看了這個我們司法院,包括法務部的這個相關的報告,書面報告大概了解說,了解了我們司法院跟法務部對這四個法條修法的態度那這裡面有一些部分我可能就要跟這個,那我們請法務部跟次長一起上來\n\n3\n00:01:06,846 --> 00:01:27,839\n有一些部分可能要跟我們來做一些討論第一個我們就一條一條來針對這個刑事訴訟法第116條第二項之二第一項第六款的修正這個主要是在這個增訂有關這個這個羈押替代處分裡面有關這個這個護照文件的這個\n\n4\n00:01:32,955 --> 00:01:53,110\n相關的這個條件,加以這個他的拘束力以後來強化所以在過去原本是法院的通知主管機關就是就是不予合法護照那我是不是這個我看到這個提案人的提案說明,他就提到說過去\n\n5\n00:01:55,095 --> 00:02:04,665\n過去這個我們現在目前台灣有八萬名的通緝犯登記在案其中出境紀錄超過八千人這個狀況是這樣的描述是確實的嗎這樣的數字\n\n6\n00:02:12,422 --> 00:02:26,209\n通緝犯人數現在本部大概是偵查執行中大概1萬多人偵查中大概3萬多人當然還有審判中大概約1萬人左右這個加起來大概6萬人左右至於就是說\n\n7\n00:02:27,289 --> 00:02:47,402\n潛逃海外八千的部分他事實上因為潛逃海外原因很多他也許是拿雙重護照出去的他也許是非法出境的所以事實上就這個潛逃在外的人數事實上沒有辦法估計啦所以這個報告大概是警政署他預估的一個數字倒是不是個確確的數字那這個過去齁我想這個修法齁基本上\n\n8\n00:02:49,000 --> 00:03:05,870\n這個我看我看這個我們法務部跟司法院報告大概都基本上都支持這樣子的修法也是認為說把這個原本是是法院的通知主管機關不以核發那現在這個這個把它增列說的這個通知主管機關這個與廢止並註銷廢止並註銷那這個\n\n9\n00:03:13,633 --> 00:03:37,898\n這個過去的狀況好像以我的了解就是我們要他交出護照的時候他會說他的護照遺失了或者他的護照遺失了找不到了或者是他的護照已經嚴重毀損了還是說他根本沒有護照他說這樣沒有交但是事實上轉身就拿著護照就出國了那這裡面這個修法就是為了防堵\n\n10\n00:03:39,034 --> 00:04:01,919\n類似像這樣狀況但是以現在的狀況而言他可能不只是修法的問題啊我們現在目前我們這個到底是怎麼樣運作的我們現行的實務運作我們法院是怎麼樣通知主管機關我們怎麼通知外交部說這個他的你不應該不予核發他護照我們是用這個韓文通知呢還是我們有一個系統有跟外交部有一個系統就是我這邊這邊這邊說給他這個這個\n\n11\n00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:14,096\n據保這個這個替代性的羈押替代性處分之後我們怎麼樣通知這個外交部現在現行實務運作\n\n12\n00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:37,522\n是韓文通知嗎?還是我們有沒有建設一個系統就是說我可以即時的目前應該是用韓文啦他目前應該是沒有一個資訊上的一個嫁接的一個串聯對我們有一個資訊上嫁接的這個系統我們用韓文的方式啦常常是在這個韓文的中間的這個韓文的時間他有一個時間差嘛那個時間差造成這個細胞潛逃的狀況\n\n13\n00:04:39,443 --> 00:05:02,939\n但是這個在實務上也許可以透過我們限制出境我們也是透過航運另外一個傳真的方式現實的迅速的傳到相關的機關現在實務上是這樣做嗎?對,限制出境的時候是這樣做我的意思就是說如果現在現行的做法這樣子它就是有漏洞那即使我們今天修法修了\n\n14\n00:05:04,381 --> 00:05:13,017\n我們要通知外交部要廢止並且註銷他的護照那一樣如果有這樣子一樣用韓文的方式一樣有這樣的時間差在啊\n\n15\n00:05:16,765 --> 00:05:37,999\n那如果檢察官他並同做限制出境,我們就直接傳證給移民署,他就出不去啦那為什麼現在會可以繫保險,然後為什麼可以持護照他如果他已經被限制出境的話,這個人基本上他是沒辦法出境,除非他有非法出境我現在不談非法出境啦,我們現在這個是在防堵\n\n16\n00:05:41,641 --> 00:06:02,624\n今天的修法是在防堵過去是我們不予核發就是說我不能說遺失了然後你現在不能夠再核發他一本護照但是現在我們修法之後說我們就可以把他護照廢止並註銷這個情況修法之後如果說我們目前實務運作的方式沒有改變他的漏洞依然在是不是\n\n17\n00:06:04,687 --> 00:06:06,229\n我看到你們的報告裡面提到廢止並註銷你們有特別提到說\n\n18\n00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:33,334\n你們的用語是說他會把這個混淆行政處分跟行政作業是法律性質市長你這部分你有看到嗎有那你是不是說明因為這我看不太懂就是說我知道說註銷是一個行政作業廢紙是一個\n\n19\n00:06:37,297 --> 00:06:59,104\n行政處分廢紙行政處分廢紙它合法護照這個行為基本上是外交部的一個行政處分對我知道註銷它基本上是一個登記對它是一個行政作業但是護照條例的第25條護照條例第25條它原本的用語它就是說持照人有前兩況情況之下應與廢紙是處分並註銷\n\n20\n00:07:08,126 --> 00:07:26,034\n並註銷該護照他並不會混淆啊只是我們希望他做兩個動作我們希望他做一個廢止行政處分的動作跟一個行政作業必須並行你們這樣子提在這個書面意見這樣提的意思是說你們應該把並註銷不用提我們只要提廢止就好註銷讓外交部自己去\n\n21\n00:07:26,474 --> 00:07:44,820\n各位報告護照條例25條它是廢紙處分並註銷那是基本上是外交部他所做的行政處分那現在我們16-2我們如果我們加一個檢查機關或法院通知他廢紙的話會變成他的行政處分是依照我們檢查官或法院所下的命令所做的\n\n22\n00:07:45,460 --> 00:08:02,001\n那未來在行政就地上會產生一些混淆我們擔心這樣我們希望行政處分就由外交部自己職權去發動而不是透過一個多階段的行政處分我們給他個order他才按照我們的命令去做處分所以像你這樣的說法是要把這樣子的條件\n\n23\n00:08:03,172 --> 00:08:30,304\n條件列到護照條例裡面去嗎我們希望就是說就是說不應該你的意思是說不用在刑事執行法裡面修因為你在刑事執行法裡面修就是由檢察官做我們擔心未來行政上救濟上會產生行政處分它會變成多階段的行政處分對會誕生這樣多階段的行政處分其實對未來救濟的話制度的話會產生一些混淆所以我們希望由外交部自己做一個行政處分所以\n\n24\n00:08:31,348 --> 00:08:50,360\n所以這樣子的修法在刑事訴訟法裡面修法你覺得這樣子修是不好的修法我們怕有這個疑慮所以未來可以討論討論是怎麼樣我們比較贊成就是我們希望能夠註銷但是由外交部自己去發動他的行政處分\n\n25\n00:08:51,781 --> 00:09:03,644\n註銷是行政作業啊行政處分是廢紙我們要求他廢紙外交部自己做一個廢紙的行政處分而不是因為我們要他做廢紙的行政處分\n\n26\n00:09:05,912 --> 00:09:24,249\n所以你認為這樣子的修法是不妥的因為他們會變成多階段的行政處分我們不希望透過一個多階段的行政處分去處理這個事情好我大概了解了這樣我大概就知道你們所講的這句話的意思了好那接下來你看我這邊有四條一條就已經花掉我所有的時間了\n\n27\n00:09:25,444 --> 00:09:33,921\n接下來我們看第101條之一大概我們就是規範有關預防性羈押的原因這個增列這個兒少\n\n28\n00:09:36,938 --> 00:10:03,219\n這個兒少性剝削防治法的這個條例啦齁那這個部分我大概有幾個跟大概這個我們法務部製法院看法類似的這個我們都肯定支持啦齁但第一個在這個立法理由裡面用媒體報導當作立法理由這個倒是我個人是認為說這個我們如果立法真的要通過的話立法理由應該要做修改啦齁這沒有說用媒體報導做立法理由的\n\n29\n00:10:04,025 --> 00:10:13,117\n再來就是就是你們也提到了在這個檢疫在這個它相同的這個\n\n30\n00:10:15,373 --> 00:10:38,364\n有在兒少跟性剝削條例裡面他有其他除了今天除了他這個修法所列的之外這個三十六條第四他還有其他的這些相關的其他樣態的犯罪他並沒有列入啦那不只是這個兒少性剝削防治條例啦刑法裡面有其他的這些相關的他也都沒有列入啦那這個\n\n31\n00:10:40,625 --> 00:11:05,283\n這部分我是覺得我們因為我們今天大概只有詢答我們今天不會進行審理我是希望說法務部是不是就這個部分我們下次當我們開始進行審理的時候能夠提出我們法務部對於就相關的其他的這些這個同樣性剝削條例兒少性剝削條例裡面的其他的樣態跟這刑法的其他的條件都能夠納入那最後再一點時間就是有關這個\n\n32\n00:11:08,653 --> 00:11:35,006\n檢疫輸送程序449條這部分齁我最大的疑問齁可能到時候要請你們說明是這個這個我看這個委員的提案齁這個我仔細的比對了之後跟你們110年1月5號你們行政院跟司法院會嫌送進立法院我們已經在立法院在110年2月26號完成一讀的條文是一模一樣啦\n\n33\n00:11:36,636 --> 00:11:58,844\n一模一樣應該是一字不差啦,一模一樣的那當初你們會嫌送進來讓立法院做了一讀了那現在委員提相同文,因為屆期不連續所以現在委員又提相同的完全一樣的文字進來結果我看司法院,我看法務部我們的這個書面意見全部都不贊成\n\n34\n00:12:00,083 --> 00:12:24,991\n全部都不是說不贊成啦說請再審酌啦你們的用語是請再審酌那這個就這個部分可能你們到時候我們審查的時候你們要說明清楚為什麼在110年的時候你們送進來的文字現在一模一樣的文字進來你們就說這個有疑慮請再審酌當初是你們請立法院函請立法院來修正的現在你們又說又變成有疑慮了\n\n35\n00:12:28,277 --> 00:12:32,824\n現在所有的這些理由現在都已經法律通過了這部分在到時候審理的時候我們希望你們能夠就這個部分能夠講清楚\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n19040\t42465\t主席我們請黃副秘書長副秘書長法務部要嗎?先請副秘書長副秘書長,謝謝委員早安副秘書長早安我們今天回到我們今天的所列議程我們今天總共刑事訴訟法有四個法條的修法\n43649\t65543\t那這個我都看了這個我們司法院,包括法務部的這個相關的報告,書面報告大概了解說,了解了我們司法院跟法務部對這四個法條修法的態度那這裡面有一些部分我可能就要跟這個,那我們請法務部跟次長一起上來\n66846\t87839\t有一些部分可能要跟我們來做一些討論第一個我們就一條一條來針對這個刑事訴訟法第116條第二項之二第一項第六款的修正這個主要是在這個增訂有關這個這個羈押替代處分裡面有關這個這個護照文件的這個\n92955\t113110\t相關的這個條件,加以這個他的拘束力以後來強化所以在過去原本是法院的通知主管機關就是就是不予合法護照那我是不是這個我看到這個提案人的提案說明,他就提到說過去\n115095\t124665\t過去這個我們現在目前台灣有八萬名的通緝犯登記在案其中出境紀錄超過八千人這個狀況是這樣的描述是確實的嗎這樣的數字\n132422\t146209\t通緝犯人數現在本部大概是偵查執行中大概1萬多人偵查中大概3萬多人當然還有審判中大概約1萬人左右這個加起來大概6萬人左右至於就是說\n147289\t167402\t潛逃海外八千的部分他事實上因為潛逃海外原因很多他也許是拿雙重護照出去的他也許是非法出境的所以事實上就這個潛逃在外的人數事實上沒有辦法估計啦所以這個報告大概是警政署他預估的一個數字倒是不是個確確的數字那這個過去齁我想這個修法齁基本上\n169000\t185870\t這個我看我看這個我們法務部跟司法院報告大概都基本上都支持這樣子的修法也是認為說把這個原本是是法院的通知主管機關不以核發那現在這個這個把它增列說的這個通知主管機關這個與廢止並註銷廢止並註銷那這個\n193633\t217898\t這個過去的狀況好像以我的了解就是我們要他交出護照的時候他會說他的護照遺失了或者他的護照遺失了找不到了或者是他的護照已經嚴重毀損了還是說他根本沒有護照他說這樣沒有交但是事實上轉身就拿著護照就出國了那這裡面這個修法就是為了防堵\n219034\t241919\t類似像這樣狀況但是以現在的狀況而言他可能不只是修法的問題啊我們現在目前我們這個到底是怎麼樣運作的我們現行的實務運作我們法院是怎麼樣通知主管機關我們怎麼通知外交部說這個他的你不應該不予核發他護照我們是用這個韓文通知呢還是我們有一個系統有跟外交部有一個系統就是我這邊這邊這邊說給他這個這個\n247000\t254096\t據保這個這個替代性的羈押替代性處分之後我們怎麼樣通知這個外交部現在現行實務運作\n255990\t277522\t是韓文通知嗎?還是我們有沒有建設一個系統就是說我可以即時的目前應該是用韓文啦他目前應該是沒有一個資訊上的一個嫁接的一個串聯對我們有一個資訊上嫁接的這個系統我們用韓文的方式啦常常是在這個韓文的中間的這個韓文的時間他有一個時間差嘛那個時間差造成這個細胞潛逃的狀況\n279443\t302939\t但是這個在實務上也許可以透過我們限制出境我們也是透過航運另外一個傳真的方式現實的迅速的傳到相關的機關現在實務上是這樣做嗎?對,限制出境的時候是這樣做我的意思就是說如果現在現行的做法這樣子它就是有漏洞那即使我們今天修法修了\n304381\t313017\t我們要通知外交部要廢止並且註銷他的護照那一樣如果有這樣子一樣用韓文的方式一樣有這樣的時間差在啊\n316765\t337999\t那如果檢察官他並同做限制出境,我們就直接傳證給移民署,他就出不去啦那為什麼現在會可以繫保險,然後為什麼可以持護照他如果他已經被限制出境的話,這個人基本上他是沒辦法出境,除非他有非法出境我現在不談非法出境啦,我們現在這個是在防堵\n341641\t362624\t今天的修法是在防堵過去是我們不予核發就是說我不能說遺失了然後你現在不能夠再核發他一本護照但是現在我們修法之後說我們就可以把他護照廢止並註銷這個情況修法之後如果說我們目前實務運作的方式沒有改變他的漏洞依然在是不是\n364687\t366229\t我看到你們的報告裡面提到廢止並註銷你們有特別提到說\n378720\t393334\t你們的用語是說他會把這個混淆行政處分跟行政作業是法律性質市長你這部分你有看到嗎有那你是不是說明因為這我看不太懂就是說我知道說註銷是一個行政作業廢紙是一個\n397297\t419104\t行政處分廢紙行政處分廢紙它合法護照這個行為基本上是外交部的一個行政處分對我知道註銷它基本上是一個登記對它是一個行政作業但是護照條例的第25條護照條例第25條它原本的用語它就是說持照人有前兩況情況之下應與廢紙是處分並註銷\n428126\t446034\t並註銷該護照他並不會混淆啊只是我們希望他做兩個動作我們希望他做一個廢止行政處分的動作跟一個行政作業必須並行你們這樣子提在這個書面意見這樣提的意思是說你們應該把並註銷不用提我們只要提廢止就好註銷讓外交部自己去\n446474\t464820\t各位報告護照條例25條它是廢紙處分並註銷那是基本上是外交部他所做的行政處分那現在我們16-2我們如果我們加一個檢查機關或法院通知他廢紙的話會變成他的行政處分是依照我們檢查官或法院所下的命令所做的\n465460\t482001\t那未來在行政就地上會產生一些混淆我們擔心這樣我們希望行政處分就由外交部自己職權去發動而不是透過一個多階段的行政處分我們給他個order他才按照我們的命令去做處分所以像你這樣的說法是要把這樣子的條件\n483172\t510304\t條件列到護照條例裡面去嗎我們希望就是說就是說不應該你的意思是說不用在刑事執行法裡面修因為你在刑事執行法裡面修就是由檢察官做我們擔心未來行政上救濟上會產生行政處分它會變成多階段的行政處分對會誕生這樣多階段的行政處分其實對未來救濟的話制度的話會產生一些混淆所以我們希望由外交部自己做一個行政處分所以\n511348\t530360\t所以這樣子的修法在刑事訴訟法裡面修法你覺得這樣子修是不好的修法我們怕有這個疑慮所以未來可以討論討論是怎麼樣我們比較贊成就是我們希望能夠註銷但是由外交部自己去發動他的行政處分\n531781\t543644\t註銷是行政作業啊行政處分是廢紙我們要求他廢紙外交部自己做一個廢紙的行政處分而不是因為我們要他做廢紙的行政處分\n545912\t564249\t所以你認為這樣子的修法是不妥的因為他們會變成多階段的行政處分我們不希望透過一個多階段的行政處分去處理這個事情好我大概了解了這樣我大概就知道你們所講的這句話的意思了好那接下來你看我這邊有四條一條就已經花掉我所有的時間了\n565444\t573921\t接下來我們看第101條之一大概我們就是規範有關預防性羈押的原因這個增列這個兒少\n576938\t603219\t這個兒少性剝削防治法的這個條例啦齁那這個部分我大概有幾個跟大概這個我們法務部製法院看法類似的這個我們都肯定支持啦齁但第一個在這個立法理由裡面用媒體報導當作立法理由這個倒是我個人是認為說這個我們如果立法真的要通過的話立法理由應該要做修改啦齁這沒有說用媒體報導做立法理由的\n604025\t613117\t再來就是就是你們也提到了在這個檢疫在這個它相同的這個\n615373\t638364\t有在兒少跟性剝削條例裡面他有其他除了今天除了他這個修法所列的之外這個三十六條第四他還有其他的這些相關的其他樣態的犯罪他並沒有列入啦那不只是這個兒少性剝削防治條例啦刑法裡面有其他的這些相關的他也都沒有列入啦那這個\n640625\t665283\t這部分我是覺得我們因為我們今天大概只有詢答我們今天不會進行審理我是希望說法務部是不是就這個部分我們下次當我們開始進行審理的時候能夠提出我們法務部對於就相關的其他的這些這個同樣性剝削條例兒少性剝削條例裡面的其他的樣態跟這刑法的其他的條件都能夠納入那最後再一點時間就是有關這個\n668653\t695006\t檢疫輸送程序449條這部分齁我最大的疑問齁可能到時候要請你們說明是這個這個我看這個委員的提案齁這個我仔細的比對了之後跟你們110年1月5號你們行政院跟司法院會嫌送進立法院我們已經在立法院在110年2月26號完成一讀的條文是一模一樣啦\n696636\t718844\t一模一樣應該是一字不差啦,一模一樣的那當初你們會嫌送進來讓立法院做了一讀了那現在委員提相同文,因為屆期不連續所以現在委員又提相同的完全一樣的文字進來結果我看司法院,我看法務部我們的這個書面意見全部都不贊成\n720083\t744991\t全部都不是說不贊成啦 說請再審酌啦你們的用語是請再審酌那這個就這個部分可能你們到時候我們審查的時候你們要說明清楚為什麼在110年的時候你們送進來的文字現在一模一樣的文字進來你們就說這個有疑慮請再審酌當初是你們請立法院函請立法院來修正的現在你們又說又變成有疑慮了\n748277\t752824\t現在所有的這些理由現在都已經法律通過了這部分在到時候審理的時候我們希望你們能夠就這個部分能夠講清楚\n","txt":"主席我們請黃副秘書長副秘書長法務部要嗎?先請副秘書長副秘書長,謝謝委員早安副秘書長早安我們今天回到我們今天的所列議程我們今天總共刑事訴訟法有四個法條的修法\n那這個我都看了這個我們司法院,包括法務部的這個相關的報告,書面報告大概了解說,了解了我們司法院跟法務部對這四個法條修法的態度那這裡面有一些部分我可能就要跟這個,那我們請法務部跟次長一起上來\n有一些部分可能要跟我們來做一些討論第一個我們就一條一條來針對這個刑事訴訟法第116條第二項之二第一項第六款的修正這個主要是在這個增訂有關這個這個羈押替代處分裡面有關這個這個護照文件的這個\n相關的這個條件,加以這個他的拘束力以後來強化所以在過去原本是法院的通知主管機關就是就是不予合法護照那我是不是這個我看到這個提案人的提案說明,他就提到說過去\n過去這個我們現在目前台灣有八萬名的通緝犯登記在案其中出境紀錄超過八千人這個狀況是這樣的描述是確實的嗎這樣的數字\n通緝犯人數現在本部大概是偵查執行中大概1萬多人偵查中大概3萬多人當然還有審判中大概約1萬人左右這個加起來大概6萬人左右至於就是說\n潛逃海外八千的部分他事實上因為潛逃海外原因很多他也許是拿雙重護照出去的他也許是非法出境的所以事實上就這個潛逃在外的人數事實上沒有辦法估計啦所以這個報告大概是警政署他預估的一個數字倒是不是個確確的數字那這個過去齁我想這個修法齁基本上\n這個我看我看這個我們法務部跟司法院報告大概都基本上都支持這樣子的修法也是認為說把這個原本是是法院的通知主管機關不以核發那現在這個這個把它增列說的這個通知主管機關這個與廢止並註銷廢止並註銷那這個\n這個過去的狀況好像以我的了解就是我們要他交出護照的時候他會說他的護照遺失了或者他的護照遺失了找不到了或者是他的護照已經嚴重毀損了還是說他根本沒有護照他說這樣沒有交但是事實上轉身就拿著護照就出國了那這裡面這個修法就是為了防堵\n類似像這樣狀況但是以現在的狀況而言他可能不只是修法的問題啊我們現在目前我們這個到底是怎麼樣運作的我們現行的實務運作我們法院是怎麼樣通知主管機關我們怎麼通知外交部說這個他的你不應該不予核發他護照我們是用這個韓文通知呢還是我們有一個系統有跟外交部有一個系統就是我這邊這邊這邊說給他這個這個\n據保這個這個替代性的羈押替代性處分之後我們怎麼樣通知這個外交部現在現行實務運作\n是韓文通知嗎?還是我們有沒有建設一個系統就是說我可以即時的目前應該是用韓文啦他目前應該是沒有一個資訊上的一個嫁接的一個串聯對我們有一個資訊上嫁接的這個系統我們用韓文的方式啦常常是在這個韓文的中間的這個韓文的時間他有一個時間差嘛那個時間差造成這個細胞潛逃的狀況\n但是這個在實務上也許可以透過我們限制出境我們也是透過航運另外一個傳真的方式現實的迅速的傳到相關的機關現在實務上是這樣做嗎?對,限制出境的時候是這樣做我的意思就是說如果現在現行的做法這樣子它就是有漏洞那即使我們今天修法修了\n我們要通知外交部要廢止並且註銷他的護照那一樣如果有這樣子一樣用韓文的方式一樣有這樣的時間差在啊\n那如果檢察官他並同做限制出境,我們就直接傳證給移民署,他就出不去啦那為什麼現在會可以繫保險,然後為什麼可以持護照他如果他已經被限制出境的話,這個人基本上他是沒辦法出境,除非他有非法出境我現在不談非法出境啦,我們現在這個是在防堵\n今天的修法是在防堵過去是我們不予核發就是說我不能說遺失了然後你現在不能夠再核發他一本護照但是現在我們修法之後說我們就可以把他護照廢止並註銷這個情況修法之後如果說我們目前實務運作的方式沒有改變他的漏洞依然在是不是\n我看到你們的報告裡面提到廢止並註銷你們有特別提到說\n你們的用語是說他會把這個混淆行政處分跟行政作業是法律性質市長你這部分你有看到嗎有那你是不是說明因為這我看不太懂就是說我知道說註銷是一個行政作業廢紙是一個\n行政處分廢紙行政處分廢紙它合法護照這個行為基本上是外交部的一個行政處分對我知道註銷它基本上是一個登記對它是一個行政作業但是護照條例的第25條護照條例第25條它原本的用語它就是說持照人有前兩況情況之下應與廢紙是處分並註銷\n並註銷該護照他並不會混淆啊只是我們希望他做兩個動作我們希望他做一個廢止行政處分的動作跟一個行政作業必須並行你們這樣子提在這個書面意見這樣提的意思是說你們應該把並註銷不用提我們只要提廢止就好註銷讓外交部自己去\n各位報告護照條例25條它是廢紙處分並註銷那是基本上是外交部他所做的行政處分那現在我們16-2我們如果我們加一個檢查機關或法院通知他廢紙的話會變成他的行政處分是依照我們檢查官或法院所下的命令所做的\n那未來在行政就地上會產生一些混淆我們擔心這樣我們希望行政處分就由外交部自己職權去發動而不是透過一個多階段的行政處分我們給他個order他才按照我們的命令去做處分所以像你這樣的說法是要把這樣子的條件\n條件列到護照條例裡面去嗎我們希望就是說就是說不應該你的意思是說不用在刑事執行法裡面修因為你在刑事執行法裡面修就是由檢察官做我們擔心未來行政上救濟上會產生行政處分它會變成多階段的行政處分對會誕生這樣多階段的行政處分其實對未來救濟的話制度的話會產生一些混淆所以我們希望由外交部自己做一個行政處分所以\n所以這樣子的修法在刑事訴訟法裡面修法你覺得這樣子修是不好的修法我們怕有這個疑慮所以未來可以討論討論是怎麼樣我們比較贊成就是我們希望能夠註銷但是由外交部自己去發動他的行政處分\n註銷是行政作業啊行政處分是廢紙我們要求他廢紙外交部自己做一個廢紙的行政處分而不是因為我們要他做廢紙的行政處分\n所以你認為這樣子的修法是不妥的因為他們會變成多階段的行政處分我們不希望透過一個多階段的行政處分去處理這個事情好我大概了解了這樣我大概就知道你們所講的這句話的意思了好那接下來你看我這邊有四條一條就已經花掉我所有的時間了\n接下來我們看第101條之一大概我們就是規範有關預防性羈押的原因這個增列這個兒少\n這個兒少性剝削防治法的這個條例啦齁那這個部分我大概有幾個跟大概這個我們法務部製法院看法類似的這個我們都肯定支持啦齁但第一個在這個立法理由裡面用媒體報導當作立法理由這個倒是我個人是認為說這個我們如果立法真的要通過的話立法理由應該要做修改啦齁這沒有說用媒體報導做立法理由的\n再來就是就是你們也提到了在這個檢疫在這個它相同的這個\n有在兒少跟性剝削條例裡面他有其他除了今天除了他這個修法所列的之外這個三十六條第四他還有其他的這些相關的其他樣態的犯罪他並沒有列入啦那不只是這個兒少性剝削防治條例啦刑法裡面有其他的這些相關的他也都沒有列入啦那這個\n這部分我是覺得我們因為我們今天大概只有詢答我們今天不會進行審理我是希望說法務部是不是就這個部分我們下次當我們開始進行審理的時候能夠提出我們法務部對於就相關的其他的這些這個同樣性剝削條例兒少性剝削條例裡面的其他的樣態跟這刑法的其他的條件都能夠納入那最後再一點時間就是有關這個\n檢疫輸送程序449條這部分齁我最大的疑問齁可能到時候要請你們說明是這個這個我看這個委員的提案齁這個我仔細的比對了之後跟你們110年1月5號你們行政院跟司法院會嫌送進立法院我們已經在立法院在110年2月26號完成一讀的條文是一模一樣啦\n一模一樣應該是一字不差啦,一模一樣的那當初你們會嫌送進來讓立法院做了一讀了那現在委員提相同文,因為屆期不連續所以現在委員又提相同的完全一樣的文字進來結果我看司法院,我看法務部我們的這個書面意見全部都不贊成\n全部都不是說不贊成啦 說請再審酌啦你們的用語是請再審酌那這個就這個部分可能你們到時候我們審查的時候你們要說明清楚為什麼在110年的時候你們送進來的文字現在一模一樣的文字進來你們就說這個有疑慮請再審酌當初是你們請立法院函請立法院來修正的現在你們又說又變成有疑慮了\n現在所有的這些理由現在都已經法律通過了這部分在到時候審理的時候我們希望你們能夠就這個部分能夠講清楚\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:19.040 --> 00:42.465\n主席我們請黃副秘書長副秘書長法務部要嗎?先請副秘書長副秘書長,謝謝委員早安副秘書長早安我們今天回到我們今天的所列議程我們今天總共刑事訴訟法有四個法條的修法\n\n00:43.649 --> 01:05.543\n那這個我都看了這個我們司法院,包括法務部的這個相關的報告,書面報告大概了解說,了解了我們司法院跟法務部對這四個法條修法的態度那這裡面有一些部分我可能就要跟這個,那我們請法務部跟次長一起上來\n\n01:06.846 --> 01:27.839\n有一些部分可能要跟我們來做一些討論第一個我們就一條一條來針對這個刑事訴訟法第116條第二項之二第一項第六款的修正這個主要是在這個增訂有關這個這個羈押替代處分裡面有關這個這個護照文件的這個\n\n01:32.955 --> 01:53.110\n相關的這個條件,加以這個他的拘束力以後來強化所以在過去原本是法院的通知主管機關就是就是不予合法護照那我是不是這個我看到這個提案人的提案說明,他就提到說過去\n\n01:55.095 --> 02:04.665\n過去這個我們現在目前台灣有八萬名的通緝犯登記在案其中出境紀錄超過八千人這個狀況是這樣的描述是確實的嗎這樣的數字\n\n02:12.422 --> 02:26.209\n通緝犯人數現在本部大概是偵查執行中大概1萬多人偵查中大概3萬多人當然還有審判中大概約1萬人左右這個加起來大概6萬人左右至於就是說\n\n02:27.289 --> 02:47.402\n潛逃海外八千的部分他事實上因為潛逃海外原因很多他也許是拿雙重護照出去的他也許是非法出境的所以事實上就這個潛逃在外的人數事實上沒有辦法估計啦所以這個報告大概是警政署他預估的一個數字倒是不是個確確的數字那這個過去齁我想這個修法齁基本上\n\n02:49.000 --> 03:05.870\n這個我看我看這個我們法務部跟司法院報告大概都基本上都支持這樣子的修法也是認為說把這個原本是是法院的通知主管機關不以核發那現在這個這個把它增列說的這個通知主管機關這個與廢止並註銷廢止並註銷那這個\n\n03:13.633 --> 03:37.898\n這個過去的狀況好像以我的了解就是我們要他交出護照的時候他會說他的護照遺失了或者他的護照遺失了找不到了或者是他的護照已經嚴重毀損了還是說他根本沒有護照他說這樣沒有交但是事實上轉身就拿著護照就出國了那這裡面這個修法就是為了防堵\n\n03:39.034 --> 04:01.919\n類似像這樣狀況但是以現在的狀況而言他可能不只是修法的問題啊我們現在目前我們這個到底是怎麼樣運作的我們現行的實務運作我們法院是怎麼樣通知主管機關我們怎麼通知外交部說這個他的你不應該不予核發他護照我們是用這個韓文通知呢還是我們有一個系統有跟外交部有一個系統就是我這邊這邊這邊說給他這個這個\n\n04:07.000 --> 04:14.096\n據保這個這個替代性的羈押替代性處分之後我們怎麼樣通知這個外交部現在現行實務運作\n\n04:15.990 --> 04:37.522\n是韓文通知嗎?還是我們有沒有建設一個系統就是說我可以即時的目前應該是用韓文啦他目前應該是沒有一個資訊上的一個嫁接的一個串聯對我們有一個資訊上嫁接的這個系統我們用韓文的方式啦常常是在這個韓文的中間的這個韓文的時間他有一個時間差嘛那個時間差造成這個細胞潛逃的狀況\n\n04:39.443 --> 05:02.939\n但是這個在實務上也許可以透過我們限制出境我們也是透過航運另外一個傳真的方式現實的迅速的傳到相關的機關現在實務上是這樣做嗎?對,限制出境的時候是這樣做我的意思就是說如果現在現行的做法這樣子它就是有漏洞那即使我們今天修法修了\n\n05:04.381 --> 05:13.017\n我們要通知外交部要廢止並且註銷他的護照那一樣如果有這樣子一樣用韓文的方式一樣有這樣的時間差在啊\n\n05:16.765 --> 05:37.999\n那如果檢察官他並同做限制出境,我們就直接傳證給移民署,他就出不去啦那為什麼現在會可以繫保險,然後為什麼可以持護照他如果他已經被限制出境的話,這個人基本上他是沒辦法出境,除非他有非法出境我現在不談非法出境啦,我們現在這個是在防堵\n\n05:41.641 --> 06:02.624\n今天的修法是在防堵過去是我們不予核發就是說我不能說遺失了然後你現在不能夠再核發他一本護照但是現在我們修法之後說我們就可以把他護照廢止並註銷這個情況修法之後如果說我們目前實務運作的方式沒有改變他的漏洞依然在是不是\n\n06:04.687 --> 06:06.229\n我看到你們的報告裡面提到廢止並註銷你們有特別提到說\n\n06:18.720 --> 06:33.334\n你們的用語是說他會把這個混淆行政處分跟行政作業是法律性質市長你這部分你有看到嗎有那你是不是說明因為這我看不太懂就是說我知道說註銷是一個行政作業廢紙是一個\n\n06:37.297 --> 06:59.104\n行政處分廢紙行政處分廢紙它合法護照這個行為基本上是外交部的一個行政處分對我知道註銷它基本上是一個登記對它是一個行政作業但是護照條例的第25條護照條例第25條它原本的用語它就是說持照人有前兩況情況之下應與廢紙是處分並註銷\n\n07:08.126 --> 07:26.034\n並註銷該護照他並不會混淆啊只是我們希望他做兩個動作我們希望他做一個廢止行政處分的動作跟一個行政作業必須並行你們這樣子提在這個書面意見這樣提的意思是說你們應該把並註銷不用提我們只要提廢止就好註銷讓外交部自己去\n\n07:26.474 --> 07:44.820\n各位報告護照條例25條它是廢紙處分並註銷那是基本上是外交部他所做的行政處分那現在我們16-2我們如果我們加一個檢查機關或法院通知他廢紙的話會變成他的行政處分是依照我們檢查官或法院所下的命令所做的\n\n07:45.460 --> 08:02.001\n那未來在行政就地上會產生一些混淆我們擔心這樣我們希望行政處分就由外交部自己職權去發動而不是透過一個多階段的行政處分我們給他個order他才按照我們的命令去做處分所以像你這樣的說法是要把這樣子的條件\n\n08:03.172 --> 08:30.304\n條件列到護照條例裡面去嗎我們希望就是說就是說不應該你的意思是說不用在刑事執行法裡面修因為你在刑事執行法裡面修就是由檢察官做我們擔心未來行政上救濟上會產生行政處分它會變成多階段的行政處分對會誕生這樣多階段的行政處分其實對未來救濟的話制度的話會產生一些混淆所以我們希望由外交部自己做一個行政處分所以\n\n08:31.348 --> 08:50.360\n所以這樣子的修法在刑事訴訟法裡面修法你覺得這樣子修是不好的修法我們怕有這個疑慮所以未來可以討論討論是怎麼樣我們比較贊成就是我們希望能夠註銷但是由外交部自己去發動他的行政處分\n\n08:51.781 --> 09:03.644\n註銷是行政作業啊行政處分是廢紙我們要求他廢紙外交部自己做一個廢紙的行政處分而不是因為我們要他做廢紙的行政處分\n\n09:05.912 --> 09:24.249\n所以你認為這樣子的修法是不妥的因為他們會變成多階段的行政處分我們不希望透過一個多階段的行政處分去處理這個事情好我大概了解了這樣我大概就知道你們所講的這句話的意思了好那接下來你看我這邊有四條一條就已經花掉我所有的時間了\n\n09:25.444 --> 09:33.921\n接下來我們看第101條之一大概我們就是規範有關預防性羈押的原因這個增列這個兒少\n\n09:36.938 --> 10:03.219\n這個兒少性剝削防治法的這個條例啦齁那這個部分我大概有幾個跟大概這個我們法務部製法院看法類似的這個我們都肯定支持啦齁但第一個在這個立法理由裡面用媒體報導當作立法理由這個倒是我個人是認為說這個我們如果立法真的要通過的話立法理由應該要做修改啦齁這沒有說用媒體報導做立法理由的\n\n10:04.025 --> 10:13.117\n再來就是就是你們也提到了在這個檢疫在這個它相同的這個\n\n10:15.373 --> 10:38.364\n有在兒少跟性剝削條例裡面他有其他除了今天除了他這個修法所列的之外這個三十六條第四他還有其他的這些相關的其他樣態的犯罪他並沒有列入啦那不只是這個兒少性剝削防治條例啦刑法裡面有其他的這些相關的他也都沒有列入啦那這個\n\n10:40.625 --> 11:05.283\n這部分我是覺得我們因為我們今天大概只有詢答我們今天不會進行審理我是希望說法務部是不是就這個部分我們下次當我們開始進行審理的時候能夠提出我們法務部對於就相關的其他的這些這個同樣性剝削條例兒少性剝削條例裡面的其他的樣態跟這刑法的其他的條件都能夠納入那最後再一點時間就是有關這個\n\n11:08.653 --> 11:35.006\n檢疫輸送程序449條這部分齁我最大的疑問齁可能到時候要請你們說明是這個這個我看這個委員的提案齁這個我仔細的比對了之後跟你們110年1月5號你們行政院跟司法院會嫌送進立法院我們已經在立法院在110年2月26號完成一讀的條文是一模一樣啦\n\n11:36.636 --> 11:58.844\n一模一樣應該是一字不差啦,一模一樣的那當初你們會嫌送進來讓立法院做了一讀了那現在委員提相同文,因為屆期不連續所以現在委員又提相同的完全一樣的文字進來結果我看司法院,我看法務部我們的這個書面意見全部都不贊成\n\n12:00.083 --> 12:24.991\n全部都不是說不贊成啦說請再審酌啦你們的用語是請再審酌那這個就這個部分可能你們到時候我們審查的時候你們要說明清楚為什麼在110年的時候你們送進來的文字現在一模一樣的文字進來你們就說這個有疑慮請再審酌當初是你們請立法院函請立法院來修正的現在你們又說又變成有疑慮了\n\n12:28.277 --> 12:32.824\n現在所有的這些理由現在都已經法律通過了這部分在到時候審理的時候我們希望你們能夠就這個部分能夠講清楚\n\n","segments":[{"start":19.04,"end":42.465,"text":"主席我們請黃副秘書長副秘書長法務部要嗎?先請副秘書長副秘書長,謝謝委員早安副秘書長早安我們今天回到我們今天的所列議程我們今天總共刑事訴訟法有四個法條的修法"},{"start":43.649,"end":65.543,"text":"那這個我都看了這個我們司法院,包括法務部的這個相關的報告,書面報告大概了解說,了解了我們司法院跟法務部對這四個法條修法的態度那這裡面有一些部分我可能就要跟這個,那我們請法務部跟次長一起上來"},{"start":66.846,"end":87.839,"text":"有一些部分可能要跟我們來做一些討論第一個我們就一條一條來針對這個刑事訴訟法第116條第二項之二第一項第六款的修正這個主要是在這個增訂有關這個這個羈押替代處分裡面有關這個這個護照文件的這個"},{"start":92.955,"end":113.11,"text":"相關的這個條件,加以這個他的拘束力以後來強化所以在過去原本是法院的通知主管機關就是就是不予合法護照那我是不是這個我看到這個提案人的提案說明,他就提到說過去"},{"start":115.095,"end":124.665,"text":"過去這個我們現在目前台灣有八萬名的通緝犯登記在案其中出境紀錄超過八千人這個狀況是這樣的描述是確實的嗎這樣的數字"},{"start":132.422,"end":146.209,"text":"通緝犯人數現在本部大概是偵查執行中大概1萬多人偵查中大概3萬多人當然還有審判中大概約1萬人左右這個加起來大概6萬人左右至於就是說"},{"start":147.289,"end":167.402,"text":"潛逃海外八千的部分他事實上因為潛逃海外原因很多他也許是拿雙重護照出去的他也許是非法出境的所以事實上就這個潛逃在外的人數事實上沒有辦法估計啦所以這個報告大概是警政署他預估的一個數字倒是不是個確確的數字那這個過去齁我想這個修法齁基本上"},{"start":169,"end":185.87,"text":"這個我看我看這個我們法務部跟司法院報告大概都基本上都支持這樣子的修法也是認為說把這個原本是是法院的通知主管機關不以核發那現在這個這個把它增列說的這個通知主管機關這個與廢止並註銷廢止並註銷那這個"},{"start":193.633,"end":217.898,"text":"這個過去的狀況好像以我的了解就是我們要他交出護照的時候他會說他的護照遺失了或者他的護照遺失了找不到了或者是他的護照已經嚴重毀損了還是說他根本沒有護照他說這樣沒有交但是事實上轉身就拿著護照就出國了那這裡面這個修法就是為了防堵"},{"start":219.034,"end":241.919,"text":"類似像這樣狀況但是以現在的狀況而言他可能不只是修法的問題啊我們現在目前我們這個到底是怎麼樣運作的我們現行的實務運作我們法院是怎麼樣通知主管機關我們怎麼通知外交部說這個他的你不應該不予核發他護照我們是用這個韓文通知呢還是我們有一個系統有跟外交部有一個系統就是我這邊這邊這邊說給他這個這個"},{"start":247,"end":254.096,"text":"據保這個這個替代性的羈押替代性處分之後我們怎麼樣通知這個外交部現在現行實務運作"},{"start":255.99,"end":277.522,"text":"是韓文通知嗎?還是我們有沒有建設一個系統就是說我可以即時的目前應該是用韓文啦他目前應該是沒有一個資訊上的一個嫁接的一個串聯對我們有一個資訊上嫁接的這個系統我們用韓文的方式啦常常是在這個韓文的中間的這個韓文的時間他有一個時間差嘛那個時間差造成這個細胞潛逃的狀況"},{"start":279.443,"end":302.939,"text":"但是這個在實務上也許可以透過我們限制出境我們也是透過航運另外一個傳真的方式現實的迅速的傳到相關的機關現在實務上是這樣做嗎?對,限制出境的時候是這樣做我的意思就是說如果現在現行的做法這樣子它就是有漏洞那即使我們今天修法修了"},{"start":304.381,"end":313.017,"text":"我們要通知外交部要廢止並且註銷他的護照那一樣如果有這樣子一樣用韓文的方式一樣有這樣的時間差在啊"},{"start":316.765,"end":337.999,"text":"那如果檢察官他並同做限制出境,我們就直接傳證給移民署,他就出不去啦那為什麼現在會可以繫保險,然後為什麼可以持護照他如果他已經被限制出境的話,這個人基本上他是沒辦法出境,除非他有非法出境我現在不談非法出境啦,我們現在這個是在防堵"},{"start":341.641,"end":362.624,"text":"今天的修法是在防堵過去是我們不予核發就是說我不能說遺失了然後你現在不能夠再核發他一本護照但是現在我們修法之後說我們就可以把他護照廢止並註銷這個情況修法之後如果說我們目前實務運作的方式沒有改變他的漏洞依然在是不是"},{"start":364.687,"end":366.229,"text":"我看到你們的報告裡面提到廢止並註銷你們有特別提到說"},{"start":378.72,"end":393.334,"text":"你們的用語是說他會把這個混淆行政處分跟行政作業是法律性質市長你這部分你有看到嗎有那你是不是說明因為這我看不太懂就是說我知道說註銷是一個行政作業廢紙是一個"},{"start":397.297,"end":419.104,"text":"行政處分廢紙行政處分廢紙它合法護照這個行為基本上是外交部的一個行政處分對我知道註銷它基本上是一個登記對它是一個行政作業但是護照條例的第25條護照條例第25條它原本的用語它就是說持照人有前兩況情況之下應與廢紙是處分並註銷"},{"start":428.126,"end":446.034,"text":"並註銷該護照他並不會混淆啊只是我們希望他做兩個動作我們希望他做一個廢止行政處分的動作跟一個行政作業必須並行你們這樣子提在這個書面意見這樣提的意思是說你們應該把並註銷不用提我們只要提廢止就好註銷讓外交部自己去"},{"start":446.474,"end":464.82,"text":"各位報告護照條例25條它是廢紙處分並註銷那是基本上是外交部他所做的行政處分那現在我們16-2我們如果我們加一個檢查機關或法院通知他廢紙的話會變成他的行政處分是依照我們檢查官或法院所下的命令所做的"},{"start":465.46,"end":482.001,"text":"那未來在行政就地上會產生一些混淆我們擔心這樣我們希望行政處分就由外交部自己職權去發動而不是透過一個多階段的行政處分我們給他個order他才按照我們的命令去做處分所以像你這樣的說法是要把這樣子的條件"},{"start":483.172,"end":510.304,"text":"條件列到護照條例裡面去嗎我們希望就是說就是說不應該你的意思是說不用在刑事執行法裡面修因為你在刑事執行法裡面修就是由檢察官做我們擔心未來行政上救濟上會產生行政處分它會變成多階段的行政處分對會誕生這樣多階段的行政處分其實對未來救濟的話制度的話會產生一些混淆所以我們希望由外交部自己做一個行政處分所以"},{"start":511.348,"end":530.36,"text":"所以這樣子的修法在刑事訴訟法裡面修法你覺得這樣子修是不好的修法我們怕有這個疑慮所以未來可以討論討論是怎麼樣我們比較贊成就是我們希望能夠註銷但是由外交部自己去發動他的行政處分"},{"start":531.781,"end":543.644,"text":"註銷是行政作業啊行政處分是廢紙我們要求他廢紙外交部自己做一個廢紙的行政處分而不是因為我們要他做廢紙的行政處分"},{"start":545.912,"end":564.249,"text":"所以你認為這樣子的修法是不妥的因為他們會變成多階段的行政處分我們不希望透過一個多階段的行政處分去處理這個事情好我大概了解了這樣我大概就知道你們所講的這句話的意思了好那接下來你看我這邊有四條一條就已經花掉我所有的時間了"},{"start":565.444,"end":573.921,"text":"接下來我們看第101條之一大概我們就是規範有關預防性羈押的原因這個增列這個兒少"},{"start":576.938,"end":603.219,"text":"這個兒少性剝削防治法的這個條例啦齁那這個部分我大概有幾個跟大概這個我們法務部製法院看法類似的這個我們都肯定支持啦齁但第一個在這個立法理由裡面用媒體報導當作立法理由這個倒是我個人是認為說這個我們如果立法真的要通過的話立法理由應該要做修改啦齁這沒有說用媒體報導做立法理由的"},{"start":604.025,"end":613.117,"text":"再來就是就是你們也提到了在這個檢疫在這個它相同的這個"},{"start":615.373,"end":638.364,"text":"有在兒少跟性剝削條例裡面他有其他除了今天除了他這個修法所列的之外這個三十六條第四他還有其他的這些相關的其他樣態的犯罪他並沒有列入啦那不只是這個兒少性剝削防治條例啦刑法裡面有其他的這些相關的他也都沒有列入啦那這個"},{"start":640.625,"end":665.283,"text":"這部分我是覺得我們因為我們今天大概只有詢答我們今天不會進行審理我是希望說法務部是不是就這個部分我們下次當我們開始進行審理的時候能夠提出我們法務部對於就相關的其他的這些這個同樣性剝削條例兒少性剝削條例裡面的其他的樣態跟這刑法的其他的條件都能夠納入那最後再一點時間就是有關這個"},{"start":668.653,"end":695.006,"text":"檢疫輸送程序449條這部分齁我最大的疑問齁可能到時候要請你們說明是這個這個我看這個委員的提案齁這個我仔細的比對了之後跟你們110年1月5號你們行政院跟司法院會嫌送進立法院我們已經在立法院在110年2月26號完成一讀的條文是一模一樣啦"},{"start":696.636,"end":718.844,"text":"一模一樣應該是一字不差啦,一模一樣的那當初你們會嫌送進來讓立法院做了一讀了那現在委員提相同文,因為屆期不連續所以現在委員又提相同的完全一樣的文字進來結果我看司法院,我看法務部我們的這個書面意見全部都不贊成"},{"start":720.083,"end":744.991,"text":"全部都不是說不贊成啦 說請再審酌啦你們的用語是請再審酌那這個就這個部分可能你們到時候我們審查的時候你們要說明清楚為什麼在110年的時候你們送進來的文字現在一模一樣的文字進來你們就說這個有疑慮請再審酌當初是你們請立法院函請立法院來修正的現在你們又說又變成有疑慮了"},{"start":748.277,"end":752.824,"text":"現在所有的這些理由現在都已經法律通過了這部分在到時候審理的時候我們希望你們能夠就這個部分能夠講清楚"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":330,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（9時52分）主席，我們請王副秘書長。"],["主席：副秘書長，法務部要嗎？"],["沈委員發惠：先請副秘書長。"],["主席：好，副秘書長，謝謝。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早安。"],["沈委員發惠：副秘書長早安。回到我們今天所列的議程，總共有刑事訴訟法4個法條的修法，我看了司法院、法務部的相關書面報告，大概了解司法院跟法務部對這4個法條修法的態度，這裡面有一些問題可能要跟……那請法務部次長也一起上來，有一些問題可能要跟你們做一些討論。","我們就一條一條來，第一個，針對刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二第一項第六款的修正，主要是增訂羈押替代處分有關護照、文件相關條件的拘束力加以強化，過去原本是法院通知主管機關不予核發護照，我看到提案人的提案說明，提到目前臺灣有8萬名通緝犯登記在案，其中有出境紀錄者超過8,000人，這個數字、這個狀況的描述是確實的嗎？請法務部回應。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，通緝犯的人數，本部執行中的大概是一萬多人，偵查中大概三萬多人，當然還有審判中的，大概約1萬人左右，加起來大概6萬人左右，至於提案委員說的潛逃海外有8,000人的部分，事實上因為潛逃海外的原因很多，也許是拿雙重護照出去，也許是非法出境，所以就潛逃在外的人數，事實上是沒有辦法估計的，所以這個報告大概是警政署預估的數字，倒不是一個確切的數字。"],["沈委員發惠：好，針對這個修法，我看法務部跟司法院的報告，基本上大概都支持這樣的修法，原本是法院得通知主管機關不予核發，現在增列為得通知主管機關予以廢止並註銷。以我的了解，過去的狀況就是要他交出護照時，他會說護照遺失了、找不到了，或者是已經嚴重毀損，還是說根本沒有護照，因為這樣就沒有交出，但事實上轉身就拿著護照出國了。當然修法是為了防堵類似這樣的狀況，但是以現在的狀況而言，可能不只是修法的問題，請問目前這個部分到底是怎麼運作的？現行的實務運作，法院是怎麼通知主管機關外交部不予核發護照？是用函文通知，還是跟外交部之間有一個系統？就是檢察官給他這個羈押替代性處分之後，要怎麼通知外交部？現行實務運作是函文通知，還是有沒有建置一個系統，可以即時通知？"],["黃次長謀信：應該是用函文，目前是沒有一個資訊上嫁接的串聯。"],["沈委員發惠：沒有資訊上嫁接的系統，而是用函文方式，但常常就是在函文的中間，有一個時間差，而造成棄保潛逃的狀況。"],["黃次長謀信：這個在實務上，像限制出境，除了透過函文，另外還有一個方式是傳真，限時、迅速的傳到相關機關，未來就外交……"],["沈委員發惠：現在實務上是這樣做嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：對，一限制出境就這樣做，在緊急限制出境的時候是這樣做。"],["沈委員發惠：我的意思是，現行的作法就有漏洞，即使我們今天修法，要求通知外交部要廢止並註銷他的護照，如果一樣用函文的方式傳送，還是有這樣的時間差在啊！"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，如果檢察官併同做限制出境，我們就直接傳真給移民署，他就出不去了。"],["沈委員發惠：那為什麼現在會棄保潛逃，為什麼可以持護照出去？他說他護照遺失了……"],["黃次長謀信：如果已經被限制出境的話，基本上，這個人是沒辦法出境，除非他非法出境或者……"],["沈委員發惠：我現在不談非法出境，今天的修法是在防堵，過去我們是不予核發，就是他說遺失了，然後不能夠再核發他一本護照，修法之後，我們就可以把他的護照廢止並註銷，但如果目前實務運作方式沒有改變，漏洞依然存在，是不是？"],["黃次長謀信：這不會有漏洞，因為檢察官限制出境之後，就會傳真到移民署，他就出不去了。"],["沈委員發惠：好，我看到你們的報告中特別提到，針對廢止並註銷，你們說這個用語會混淆行政處分跟行政作業之法律性質，次長，這部分你有看到嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：有。"],["沈委員發惠：請你說明一下，因為這部分我看不太懂，我知道註銷是行政作業，廢止是行政處分。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，廢止核發護照的這個行為，基本上是外交部的一個行政處分……"],["沈委員發惠：對，我知道。"],["黃次長謀信：註銷基本上是一個登記……"],["沈委員發惠：對，它是一個行政作業。"],["黃次長謀信：對，如果……"],["沈委員發惠：但是護照條例第二十五條原本的用語是說，持照人有前兩項情況之下，應予廢止之處分，並註銷該護照。並不會混淆啊！就是我們希望它做兩個動作，亦即一個廢止行政處分的動作跟一個行政作業，兩者必須並行，而你們書面報告的意見是你們不用提「並註銷」，只要「廢止」就好了，註銷應讓外交部自己去……"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，護照條例第二十五條是廢止處分並註銷，基本上那是外交部所做的行政處分，如果我們在刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二加上檢察機關或法院通知主管機關廢止的話，會變成這個行政處分是依照檢察官或法院所下的命令去做的，那麼未來在行政救濟上會產生一些混淆，我們是擔心這樣，所以希望行政處分就由外交部自己依職權去發動，而不是透過一個多階段的行政處分，我們給它一個order，它才按照我們的命令去做處分……"],["沈委員發惠：照你這樣的說法，是要把這樣的條件列到護照條例裡面嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：我們希望就是……"],["沈委員發惠：你的意思是說不用在刑事訴訟法裡規定，因為在刑事訴訟法裡面修正，就是由檢察官做……"],["黃次長謀信：對，所以我們在報告上寫擔心未來行政救濟上會產生行政處分……"],["沈委員發惠：會變成一個多階段的行政處分嘛！"],["黃次長謀信：對，擔心會這樣，多階段行政處分其實對未來救濟的制度會產生一些混淆，所以我們希望由外交部自己做一個行政處分。"],["沈委員發惠：所以在刑事訴訟法裡面修法，你覺得這是不好的修法？"],["黃次長謀信：我們是怕有這個疑慮，所以說未來可以討論，但方向我們是贊成的。"],["沈委員發惠：討論是怎麼樣？把它……"],["黃次長謀信：我們是希望能夠註銷，但是由外交部自己去發動它的行政處分。"],["沈委員發惠：註銷是行政作業啊！"],["黃次長謀信：對……"],["沈委員發惠：行政處分是廢止，我們要求它廢止……"],["黃次長謀信：對，就是外交部自己做一個廢止的行政處分，而不是因為我們要它做這個廢止的行政處分，它不是依照……"],["沈委員發惠：所以你認為這樣的修法是不妥的，因為會變成多階段的行政處分？"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，我們怕會有疑慮，所以不希望透過多階段的行政處分去處理這個事情。"],["沈委員發惠：好，我大概了解了，這樣我大概就知道你們所講的這句話的意思。","哇！你看這邊有4條，單單討論1條就花掉很多時間了。","接下來看第一百零一條，這大概是規範有關預防性羈押的原因，增列兒少性剝削防制條例，這個部分我與法務部、司法院的看法類似，我們都肯定、支持。但是用媒體報導當作立法理由，我個人倒是認為如果立法真的要通過的話，立法理由應該要做修改，沒有用媒體報導作為立法理由的情況。再來，你們也提到除了今天修法所列的之外，在兒少性剝削防制條例裡面還有其他相關樣態的犯罪，並沒有列入，不只是兒少性剝削防制條例，刑法裡面也有其他相關的樣態都沒有列入。因為我們今天只有詢答，不會進行逐條審查，我希望當我們開始進行審查的時候，法務部對兒少性剝削條例裡面的其他樣態以及刑法的相關犯罪都能夠同樣納入。","最後，再一點時間，有關簡易訴訟程序第四百四十九條的部分，我最大的疑問可能到時候要請你們說明，我看了這個委員的提案，我仔細比對了之後，跟110年1月5日行政院、司法院會銜送進立法院，立法院已經在110年2月26日完成一讀的條文一模一樣，應該是一字不差、一模一樣的。當初你們會銜送進來讓立法院做了一讀，因為屆期不連續，所以現在委員又提了相同、完全一樣的文字進來，結果我看到司法院、法務部的書面意見全部都是不贊成，不是不贊成，而是請再審酌，你們的用語是「請再審酌」。就這個部分，在我們審查的時候，你們要說明清楚，為什麼110年的時候你們送進來的文字，現在一模一樣的文字又送進來，你們就說這個有疑慮，請再審酌？當初是你們函請立法院修正的，現在你們又變成有疑慮了。幸好立法院懶惰，上一屆沒有審查通過，不然上一屆審查通過了，現在再講這些理由，可是法律都已經通過了，等之後審查的時候，我希望你們就這個部分能夠講清楚，以上。"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員。","下一位請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-11","speakers":["吳宗憲","羅智強","王義川","陳培瑜","黃國昌","沈發惠","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","林淑芬"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員羅智強等25 人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案、\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員陳\n培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員陳亭妃等16人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十九條及第四百五十一條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員許智\n傑等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十一條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144301_00001"}}}