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\"個\"}, {\"word\": \"星\", \"start\": 787.693, \"end\": 787.873, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 787.873, \"end\": 788.053, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 788.053, \"end\": 788.694, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 788.694, \"end\": 788.854, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 788.854, \"end\": 789.655, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 789.655, \"end\": 789.815, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 789.815, \"end\": 790.076, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 790.076, \"end\": 790.376, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 790.376, \"end\": 790.516, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 790.516, \"end\": 790.536, \"score\": 0.61}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,087 --> 00:00:15,298\n好有請王副秘書長還有次長好麻煩次長副秘\n\n2\n00:00:18,291 --> 00:00:35,636\n委員早安是王副秘書長還有次長我想剛剛前面一些委員還包含應該是昨天都有一些委員有問到有關於虐童案的那個犯罪嫌疑人他棄保潛逃的問題剛剛王宏威委員其實也說了很多本席今天其實本來也要講這個議題但是呢因為剛剛王宏威委員其實也已經請你們要對這個事情要好好的嚴加處理然後甚至要去\n\n3\n00:00:47,139 --> 00:01:08,592\n追究相關承辦法官的責任因為剛剛聽了副秘書長的說明似乎是法官在做相關裁定決定的時候中間可能出了一些有疏失至少您剛剛的說法是不嚴謹不嚴謹的話那代表可能他也要負擔一些行政責任那麼就這個部分的話那我認為說不管是\n\n4\n00:01:12,174 --> 00:01:40,835\n司法院或是法務部其實未來在整個橫向的聯繫上面一定要多加強因為已經太多的案例然後讓大家這個社會觀感很不好為什麼這麼重大的一些案子然後這個犯罪嫌疑人就棄保險潛逃了然後最後呢聽兩位的說法就是都是怪罪於因為制度現行的法令不夠完善但是過去其實司法院跟法務部也常常\n\n5\n00:01:41,475 --> 00:02:10,072\n會自己頒布很多的行政指導的原則解函式或是作業方式然後請法官跟檢察官這裡都要配合處理那為什麼在這些事情上面卻沒有積極的作為那本席是感到很遺憾那麼希望就是你們能夠深刻的檢討那本席在這邊也要再講一下就是113年其實監察委員林怡蓉她有去\n\n6\n00:02:13,026 --> 00:02:23,650\n還有去法務部到行政院去進行相關的考察那麼那個時候呢其實就有這個\n\n7\n00:02:26,741 --> 00:02:44,453\n在進行考察的過程當中其實就針對氣保潛逃的問題然後提出七大重點改善項目我想法務部這邊應該很清楚那其中呢像是第六點跟第七點那我認為這部分的話是法務部應該要趕快做\n\n8\n00:02:46,093 --> 00:03:13,604\n檢討那麼甚至司法院跟法務部有沒有積極推動棄保檢討罪的這個制定當然我們現在今天看起來就要討論了那麼事實上不僅是這個相關的罪則要盡速的制定那麼同時在這個法律還沒有通過之前像施行細則以及這個作業方式其實都要做我想請教法務部你們在這個監委考察之後你們內部有做些檢討嗎\n\n9\n00:03:15,858 --> 00:03:43,241\n各位報告那這個相關的改善措施譬如說科技監控的部分開案量的部分那如同我們上一次的報告我們開案量現在已經從原來的前一年的每年30件現在提升到每年97件所以開案量已經大幅的增加那至於這個有罪羈押制度這涉及到我們跟司法院相關法律見解的不一樣是不是有違反無罪推定原則的問題這還要進行相關的寫下事實上這個法案它是比較爭議性啦有罪就羈押制度所以這法制面的修正那還要進行相關的\n\n10\n00:03:43,541 --> 00:04:09,517\n但是你們現在有進行過相關的討論嗎跟司法院事實上我們早就提出來過了只是大家對這個老實講對這個條文它有一些見解上的歧義這個條文就通過了另外有關於這個第七點的這個查記平台部分那我們現在查記平台我們現在已經在整合在一個界面上面上面有各種四種平台的整合讓民眾或者是要使用的予以查詢\n\n11\n00:04:10,357 --> 00:04:28,702\n這個我們也做到了所以相關的這個改善部分我們其實已經做相關的改善措施是那請問王副秘書長你們就這一點你們自己內部有在進行檢討嗎跟司法院跟法務部的就第六點還是對就第五點跟第六點呢你們有在開會討論嗎\n\n12\n00:04:35,245 --> 00:05:03,662\n我先說有關於那個防逃的那個部分從那個去年以來其實司法院開過幾次大型會議就是增加法官他們賠利他們有關於就是這個敏感度防逃這個敏感度那一方面就是如果說不羈押的話目前科控確實是最有效的那個手段因為目前使用科控被告還沒有一個那個逃跑的那所以我們也讓那個法官真正了解說這個實際上這個科控他怎麼是願意做的\n\n13\n00:05:04,022 --> 00:05:28,689\n中文字就跑逃跑了嗎沒有他是沒有科控中文字就是你們這中間的橫向聯繫就出了問題嗎那個是法官他不去下那個處分讓他科控那所以我們也鼓勵法官就是說在有那個必要的時候多使用這個科控那他要了解的話就要對這整個那個制度就是說那個了解還有優化那個制度那這是防逃那個部分那另外有關於就是說\n\n14\n00:05:29,209 --> 00:05:32,612\n好那沒關係因為本席的這個諮詢時間有限我希望就是說兩個單位應該要積極的溝通協調看如何是強化棄保潛逃的問題好那接下來我要問一個就是也是日前的新聞報載大家知道有180名的台灣籍的詐騙嫌疑人在柬埔寨\n\n15\n00:05:50,307 --> 00:06:14,825\n遭到逮捕沒有經過我國政府的同意以及之前就分了三批遣送到這個大陸去受審那這當然不僅凸顯出我國在第三國的司法協調上面的困境更讓海峽兩岸的共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議的效能看起來是失靈的而且也受到空前的這個質疑那麼我想\n\n16\n00:06:16,226 --> 00:06:38,164\n當時這個兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議它最重要的精神就在於說雙方要本持著互惠互助保護人民的權益為原則來處理跨境犯罪的案件可是呢我們看到這個狀況其實在近些年來到底法務部在司法互助在跟兩岸司法互助上面你們有沒有\n\n17\n00:06:39,045 --> 00:06:52,716\n更更取得更好的成效還是說根本就這是停滯停滯是屬於停滯的階段沒有任何的成果我首先想請教次長你們知不知道這一批180位嫌犯的名單\n\n18\n00:06:54,970 --> 00:07:18,503\n這個其實在整個過程當中法務部跟外交部都有在積極的想要把這180個是不是可以解送到所以你們是知道這一份名單的這個具體名單知不知道我們目前沒有辦法掌握但這個事件我們從頭到尾都是掌握這80個具體名單我倒是不知道我們有沒有掌握但這個事件從頭到尾本部跟外交部跟警政署都是從頭到尾掌握的\n\n19\n00:07:18,703 --> 00:07:45,698\n所以你們跟柬埔寨的溝通過程當中他們是完全不理不睬然後就直接將這180位嫌疑犯移送到中國大陸去各位報告事實上本部跟警政組透過外交部外交部事後也發布新聞稿就是說他有相關窮盡的努力希望把這些國人把他解送回台灣來進行相關的偵審程序那你們法務部在中間扮演什麼角色\n\n20\n00:07:47,445 --> 00:08:11,235\n我們在法務部法務部他也許是透過法務秘書也許透過駐外的移民秘書相關去進行相關的實質上的外交干涉但正式的外交途徑還是要透過外交部去做相關的進展現在換以目前外交部的能力我很懷疑他們到底有沒有這樣的一個能力可以去跟柬埔寨那裡做溝通協調那麼好那現在人到了中國大陸那裡去了那麼我想請問這個\n\n21\n00:08:14,377 --> 00:08:28,278\n市長您知不知道目前在兩岸司法互助的情況之下那麼截至目前為止有多少位大陸移送回台灣的罪犯有多少人各位報告這兩岸\n\n22\n00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:54,087\n按照兩岸共打跟司法互助協議我們進行相關的所謂司法互助其實送達的部分甚至完全沒有受影響非常非常多調查舉證相方也進行了非常多倒是人員遣返的部分的確是這幾年來他人員遣返的數字他有下降那基本上是個位數個案上的遣返他沒有辦到通盤性的遣返其實按照兩岸共打協議他應該要本席基本上這個查了相關的資料\n\n23\n00:08:55,227 --> 00:09:04,257\n我感到很遺憾的就是說大家看看啊從110年然後到113年我們罪犯接回來的人數是零就是這三年來罪犯人數是零110年當時說從98年到110年總共大概差不多15年的時間我們總共接回來19位\n\n24\n00:09:17,691 --> 00:09:45,655\n那從110年到113年接回來的人數還是19位累計喔好了我們下一頁來看一下所以呢可以看得出來就是這110年從110年到113年這三年來我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪司法互助協議的執行成效是非常非常糟糕連兩岸的在詐欺罪的合作破獲件數這三年也只有三岸再跟過去比其實差別很大\n\n25\n00:09:47,435 --> 00:10:11,742\n這個成效的部分我剛才跟委員報告就人員遣返的確是比較少但其實司法互助不是只有這個包括委員剛才有提到送達調查取證這個相關的司法處境現在進行的也是非常的頻繁人員遣返不定他涉及到一個雙方互相的一個大家互惠他基本上他今天不遣返我們也沒有辦法叫他願意遣返但人員遣返的確這幾年來他是人數變少的\n\n26\n00:10:13,442 --> 00:10:40,492\n是我想因為這個部分當然也涉及到就是兩岸的這個刑事制度那麼從我們的角度來講我們當然還是希望台灣人能夠回到台灣來接受相關的法律制裁然後要服刑等等那這個部分的話的確是要多加強那麼我也有看到就是你們近幾年來你們編的兩岸司法互助的預算大概就是千萬大概就是上千萬可是\n\n27\n00:10:42,173 --> 00:11:06,995\n看不出來有什麼具體的成效而且是每況愈下我覺得這個問題也很嚴重這當然跟現代政府從民進黨政府執政以來跟對岸的關係在各方面幾乎都已經是降到冰點了都已經是這個兩邊都不交流了連這個司法互助共同打擊犯罪的部分也都停滯不前這個問題是很嚴重\n\n28\n00:11:09,764 --> 00:11:34,854\n而且更何況我們的外交也沒有辦法處理相關的問題那在國外的一些犯罪的人全部都移送到中國大陸去我覺得法務部就這方面還是應該要有更積極的作為你看我們現在人員遣返我們對大陸提出了這個要求356個人然後陸方只遣返了10位那麼陸方對我們說提出3位我們遣返1位\n\n29\n00:11:35,994 --> 00:11:56,383\n可是我們提出的人很多代表我們很多的人是被關在那裡的對法務部有沒有什麼想法就未來要怎麼樣改善這個部分各位報告在正式的管道或者兩岸司法互助協議上的管道其實我們都向陸方請求了但人員遣返部分是涉及到雙方的意願請問兩邊還有在開會嗎正式的會議當然沒有但是透過相關的研討會還是有在只是研討會\n\n30\n00:12:05,007 --> 00:12:28,702\n因為這個涉及到我們相關的司法互助或者是相關的情職交換不見得一定要透過正式的途徑有時候透過一個非正式途徑反而容易取得相關的司法互助或者是調查取證那可是你們現在不是近幾年你們到大陸去開會的次數不是越來越少近幾年變少是不是這個是我們這邊的問題還是他們那邊的問題\n\n31\n00:12:32,609 --> 00:12:59,640\n是我們這邊的人不願意去還是他們那邊的人不願意讓我們去這個當然是要多雙方要有意見我的想法還是要更積極的處理這個問題那也請法務部可以把這些年來就是要不就近三年來到底我們遣返了哪些人他的犯罪類型是如何然後兩岸破獲的案件是哪些案件把相關的資訊提供給我可以嗎\n\n32\n00:13:00,666 --> 00:13:10,536\n好那就麻煩前兩個禮拜之內提供給我因為案件數很少吧對不對好不好那就兩個星期之內提供給本席做參考好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11087\t15298\t好 有請王副秘書長還有次長好 麻煩次長副秘\n18291\t35636\t委員早安 是 王副秘書長還有次長我想剛剛前面一些委員 還包含應該是昨天都有一些委員有問到有關於虐童案的那個犯罪嫌疑人他棄保潛逃的問題 剛剛王宏威委員其實也說了很多本席今天其實本來也要講這個議題但是呢因為剛剛王宏威委員其實也已經請你們要對這個事情要好好的嚴加處理然後甚至要去\n47139\t68592\t追究相關承辦法官的責任因為剛剛聽了副秘書長的說明似乎是法官在做相關裁定決定的時候中間可能出了一些有疏失至少您剛剛的說法是不嚴謹不嚴謹的話那代表可能他也要負擔一些行政責任那麼就這個部分的話那我認為說不管是\n72174\t100835\t司法院或是法務部其實未來在整個橫向的聯繫上面一定要多加強因為已經太多的案例然後讓大家這個社會觀感很不好為什麼這麼重大的一些案子然後這個犯罪嫌疑人就棄保險潛逃了然後最後呢聽兩位的說法就是都是怪罪於因為制度現行的法令不夠完善但是過去其實司法院跟法務部也常常\n101475\t130072\t會自己頒布很多的行政指導的原則解函式或是作業方式然後請法官跟檢察官這裡都要配合處理那為什麼在這些事情上面卻沒有積極的作為那本席是感到很遺憾那麼希望就是你們能夠深刻的檢討那本席在這邊也要再講一下就是113年其實監察委員林怡蓉她有去\n133026\t143650\t還有去法務部到行政院去進行相關的考察 那麼那個時候呢其實就有這個\n146741\t164453\t在進行考察的過程當中其實就針對氣保潛逃的問題然後提出七大重點改善項目我想法務部這邊應該很清楚那其中呢像是第六點跟第七點那我認為這部分的話是法務部應該要趕快做\n166093\t193604\t檢討那麼甚至司法院跟法務部有沒有積極推動棄保檢討罪的這個制定當然我們現在今天看起來就要討論了那麼事實上不僅是這個相關的罪則要盡速的制定那麼同時在這個法律還沒有通過之前像施行細則以及這個作業方式其實都要做我想請教法務部你們在這個監委考察之後你們內部有做些檢討嗎\n195858\t223241\t各位報告那這個相關的改善措施譬如說科技監控的部分開案量的部分那如同我們上一次的報告我們開案量現在已經從原來的前一年的每年30件現在提升到每年97件所以開案量已經大幅的增加那至於這個有罪羈押制度這涉及到我們跟司法院相關法律見解的不一樣是不是有違反無罪推定原則的問題這還要進行相關的寫下事實上這個法案它是比較爭議性啦有罪就羈押制度所以這法制面的修正那還要進行相關的\n223541\t249517\t但是你們現在有進行過相關的討論嗎跟司法院事實上我們早就提出來過了只是大家對這個 老實講對這個條文它有一些見解上的歧義這個條文就通過了另外有關於這個第七點的這個查記平台部分那我們現在查記平台我們現在已經在整合在一個界面上面上面有各種四種平台的整合讓民眾或者是要使用的予以查詢\n250357\t268702\t這個我們也做到了所以相關的這個改善部分我們其實已經做相關的改善措施是那請問王副秘書長你們就這一點你們自己內部有在進行檢討嗎跟司法院跟法務部的就第六點還是對就第五點跟第六點呢你們有在開會討論嗎\n275245\t303662\t我先說有關於那個防逃的那個部分從那個去年以來其實司法院開過幾次大型會議就是增加法官他們賠利他們有關於就是這個敏感度防逃這個敏感度那一方面就是如果說不羈押的話目前科控確實是最有效的那個手段因為目前使用科控被告還沒有一個那個逃跑的那所以我們也讓那個法官真正了解說這個實際上這個科控他怎麼是願意做的\n304022\t328689\t中文字就跑逃跑了嗎沒有他是沒有科控中文字就是你們這中間的橫向聯繫就出了問題嗎那個是法官他不去下那個處分讓他科控那所以我們也鼓勵法官就是說在有那個必要的時候多使用這個科控那他要了解的話就要對這整個那個制度就是說那個了解還有優化那個制度那這是防逃那個部分那另外有關於就是說\n329209\t332612\t好 那沒關係 因為本席的這個諮詢時間有限我希望就是說兩個單位應該要積極的溝通協調看如何是強化棄保潛逃的問題好 那接下來我要問一個就是也是日前的新聞報載大家知道有180名的台灣籍的詐騙嫌疑人在柬埔寨\n350307\t374825\t遭到逮捕沒有經過我國政府的同意以及之前就分了三批遣送到這個大陸去受審那這當然不僅凸顯出我國在第三國的司法協調上面的困境更讓海峽兩岸的共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議的效能看起來是失靈的而且也受到空前的這個質疑那麼我想\n376226\t398164\t當時這個兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議它最重要的精神就在於說雙方要本持著互惠互助保護人民的權益為原則來處理跨境犯罪的案件可是呢我們看到這個狀況其實在近些年來到底法務部在司法互助在跟兩岸司法互助上面你們有沒有\n399045\t412716\t更更取得更好的成效還是說根本就這是停滯停滯是屬於停滯的階段沒有任何的成果我首先想請教次長你們知不知道這一批180位嫌犯的名單\n414970\t438503\t這個其實在整個過程當中法務部跟外交部都有在積極的想要把這180個是不是可以解送到所以你們是知道這一份名單的這個具體名單知不知道我們目前沒有辦法掌握但這個事件我們從頭到尾都是掌握這80個具體名單我倒是不知道我們有沒有掌握但這個事件從頭到尾本部跟外交部跟警政署都是從頭到尾掌握的\n438703\t465698\t所以你們跟柬埔寨的溝通過程當中他們是完全不理不睬然後就直接將這180位嫌疑犯移送到中國大陸去各位報告事實上本部跟警政組透過外交部外交部事後也發布新聞稿就是說他有相關窮盡的努力希望把這些國人把他解送回台灣來進行相關的偵審程序那你們法務部在中間扮演什麼角色\n467445\t491235\t我們在法務部 法務部他也許是透過法務秘書也許透過駐外的移民秘書相關去進行相關的實質上的外交干涉但正式的外交途徑還是要透過外交部去做相關的進展現在換以目前外交部的能力我很懷疑他們到底有沒有這樣的一個能力可以去跟柬埔寨那裡做溝通協調那麼好 那現在人到了中國大陸那裡去了那麼我想請問這個\n494377\t508278\t市長您知不知道目前在兩岸司法互助的情況之下那麼截至目前為止有多少位大陸移送回台灣的罪犯有多少人各位報告這兩岸\n509600\t534087\t按照兩岸共打跟司法互助協議我們進行相關的所謂司法互助其實送達的部分甚至完全沒有受影響非常非常多調查舉證相方也進行了非常多倒是人員遣返的部分的確是這幾年來他人員遣返的數字他有下降那基本上是個位數 個案上的遣返他沒有辦到通盤性的遣返其實按照兩岸共打協議他應該要本席基本上這個查了相關的資料\n535227\t544257\t我感到很遺憾的就是說 大家看看啊 從110年然後到113年 我們罪犯接回來的人數是零就是這三年來 罪犯人數是零 110年當時說從98年到110年總共大概差不多15年的時間 我們總共接回來19位\n557691\t585655\t那從110年到113年接回來的人數還是19位累計喔 好了我們下一頁來看一下所以呢可以看得出來就是這110年從110年到113年這三年來我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪司法互助協議的執行成效是非常非常糟糕連兩岸的在詐欺罪的合作破獲件數這三年也只有三岸再跟過去比其實差別很大\n587435\t611742\t這個成效的部分我剛才跟委員報告就人員遣返的確是比較少但其實司法互助不是只有這個包括委員剛才有提到送達調查取證這個相關的司法處境現在進行的也是非常的頻繁人員遣返不定他涉及到一個雙方互相的一個大家互惠他基本上他今天不遣返我們也沒有辦法叫他願意遣返但人員遣返的確這幾年來他是人數變少的\n613442\t640492\t是我想因為這個部分當然也涉及到就是兩岸的這個刑事制度那麼從我們的角度來講我們當然還是希望台灣人能夠回到台灣來接受相關的法律制裁然後要服刑等等那這個部分的話的確是要多加強那麼我也有看到就是你們近幾年來你們編的兩岸司法互助的預算大概就是千萬大概就是上千萬可是\n642173\t666995\t看不出來有什麼具體的成效而且是每況愈下我覺得這個問題也很嚴重這當然跟現代政府從民進黨政府執政以來跟對岸的關係在各方面幾乎都已經是降到冰點了都已經是這個兩邊都不交流了連這個司法互助共同打擊犯罪的部分也都停滯不前這個問題是很嚴重\n669764\t694854\t而且更何況我們的外交也沒有辦法處理相關的問題那在國外的一些犯罪的人全部都移送到中國大陸去我覺得法務部就這方面還是應該要有更積極的作為你看我們現在人員遣返我們對大陸提出了這個要求356個人然後陸方只遣返了10位那麼陸方對我們說提出3位我們遣返1位\n695994\t716383\t可是我們提出的人很多代表我們很多的人是被關在那裡的對 法務部有沒有什麼想法就未來要怎麼樣改善這個部分各位報告 在正式的管道或者兩岸司法互助協議上的管道其實我們都向陸方請求了但人員遣返部分是涉及到雙方的意願請問兩邊還有在開會嗎正式的會議當然沒有但是透過相關的研討會還是有在只是研討會\n725007\t748702\t因為這個涉及到我們相關的司法互助或者是相關的情職交換不見得一定要透過正式的途徑有時候透過一個非正式途徑反而容易取得相關的司法互助或者是調查取證那可是你們現在不是近幾年你們到大陸去開會的次數不是越來越少近幾年變少是不是這個是我們這邊的問題還是他們那邊的問題\n752609\t779640\t是我們這邊的人不願意去還是他們那邊的人不願意讓我們去這個當然是要多雙方要有意見我的想法還是要更積極的處理這個問題那也請法務部可以把這些年來就是要不就近三年來到底我們遣返了哪些人他的犯罪類型是如何然後兩岸破獲的案件是哪些案件把相關的資訊提供給我可以嗎\n780666\t790536\t好那就麻煩前兩個禮拜之內提供給我因為案件數很少吧對不對 好不好那就兩個星期之內提供給本席做參考好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 有請王副秘書長還有次長好 麻煩次長副秘\n委員早安 是 王副秘書長還有次長我想剛剛前面一些委員 還包含應該是昨天都有一些委員有問到有關於虐童案的那個犯罪嫌疑人他棄保潛逃的問題 剛剛王宏威委員其實也說了很多本席今天其實本來也要講這個議題但是呢因為剛剛王宏威委員其實也已經請你們要對這個事情要好好的嚴加處理然後甚至要去\n追究相關承辦法官的責任因為剛剛聽了副秘書長的說明似乎是法官在做相關裁定決定的時候中間可能出了一些有疏失至少您剛剛的說法是不嚴謹不嚴謹的話那代表可能他也要負擔一些行政責任那麼就這個部分的話那我認為說不管是\n司法院或是法務部其實未來在整個橫向的聯繫上面一定要多加強因為已經太多的案例然後讓大家這個社會觀感很不好為什麼這麼重大的一些案子然後這個犯罪嫌疑人就棄保險潛逃了然後最後呢聽兩位的說法就是都是怪罪於因為制度現行的法令不夠完善但是過去其實司法院跟法務部也常常\n會自己頒布很多的行政指導的原則解函式或是作業方式然後請法官跟檢察官這裡都要配合處理那為什麼在這些事情上面卻沒有積極的作為那本席是感到很遺憾那麼希望就是你們能夠深刻的檢討那本席在這邊也要再講一下就是113年其實監察委員林怡蓉她有去\n還有去法務部到行政院去進行相關的考察 那麼那個時候呢其實就有這個\n在進行考察的過程當中其實就針對氣保潛逃的問題然後提出七大重點改善項目我想法務部這邊應該很清楚那其中呢像是第六點跟第七點那我認為這部分的話是法務部應該要趕快做\n檢討那麼甚至司法院跟法務部有沒有積極推動棄保檢討罪的這個制定當然我們現在今天看起來就要討論了那麼事實上不僅是這個相關的罪則要盡速的制定那麼同時在這個法律還沒有通過之前像施行細則以及這個作業方式其實都要做我想請教法務部你們在這個監委考察之後你們內部有做些檢討嗎\n各位報告那這個相關的改善措施譬如說科技監控的部分開案量的部分那如同我們上一次的報告我們開案量現在已經從原來的前一年的每年30件現在提升到每年97件所以開案量已經大幅的增加那至於這個有罪羈押制度這涉及到我們跟司法院相關法律見解的不一樣是不是有違反無罪推定原則的問題這還要進行相關的寫下事實上這個法案它是比較爭議性啦有罪就羈押制度所以這法制面的修正那還要進行相關的\n但是你們現在有進行過相關的討論嗎跟司法院事實上我們早就提出來過了只是大家對這個 老實講對這個條文它有一些見解上的歧義這個條文就通過了另外有關於這個第七點的這個查記平台部分那我們現在查記平台我們現在已經在整合在一個界面上面上面有各種四種平台的整合讓民眾或者是要使用的予以查詢\n這個我們也做到了所以相關的這個改善部分我們其實已經做相關的改善措施是那請問王副秘書長你們就這一點你們自己內部有在進行檢討嗎跟司法院跟法務部的就第六點還是對就第五點跟第六點呢你們有在開會討論嗎\n我先說有關於那個防逃的那個部分從那個去年以來其實司法院開過幾次大型會議就是增加法官他們賠利他們有關於就是這個敏感度防逃這個敏感度那一方面就是如果說不羈押的話目前科控確實是最有效的那個手段因為目前使用科控被告還沒有一個那個逃跑的那所以我們也讓那個法官真正了解說這個實際上這個科控他怎麼是願意做的\n中文字就跑逃跑了嗎沒有他是沒有科控中文字就是你們這中間的橫向聯繫就出了問題嗎那個是法官他不去下那個處分讓他科控那所以我們也鼓勵法官就是說在有那個必要的時候多使用這個科控那他要了解的話就要對這整個那個制度就是說那個了解還有優化那個制度那這是防逃那個部分那另外有關於就是說\n好 那沒關係 因為本席的這個諮詢時間有限我希望就是說兩個單位應該要積極的溝通協調看如何是強化棄保潛逃的問題好 那接下來我要問一個就是也是日前的新聞報載大家知道有180名的台灣籍的詐騙嫌疑人在柬埔寨\n遭到逮捕沒有經過我國政府的同意以及之前就分了三批遣送到這個大陸去受審那這當然不僅凸顯出我國在第三國的司法協調上面的困境更讓海峽兩岸的共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議的效能看起來是失靈的而且也受到空前的這個質疑那麼我想\n當時這個兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議它最重要的精神就在於說雙方要本持著互惠互助保護人民的權益為原則來處理跨境犯罪的案件可是呢我們看到這個狀況其實在近些年來到底法務部在司法互助在跟兩岸司法互助上面你們有沒有\n更更取得更好的成效還是說根本就這是停滯停滯是屬於停滯的階段沒有任何的成果我首先想請教次長你們知不知道這一批180位嫌犯的名單\n這個其實在整個過程當中法務部跟外交部都有在積極的想要把這180個是不是可以解送到所以你們是知道這一份名單的這個具體名單知不知道我們目前沒有辦法掌握但這個事件我們從頭到尾都是掌握這80個具體名單我倒是不知道我們有沒有掌握但這個事件從頭到尾本部跟外交部跟警政署都是從頭到尾掌握的\n所以你們跟柬埔寨的溝通過程當中他們是完全不理不睬然後就直接將這180位嫌疑犯移送到中國大陸去各位報告事實上本部跟警政組透過外交部外交部事後也發布新聞稿就是說他有相關窮盡的努力希望把這些國人把他解送回台灣來進行相關的偵審程序那你們法務部在中間扮演什麼角色\n我們在法務部 法務部他也許是透過法務秘書也許透過駐外的移民秘書相關去進行相關的實質上的外交干涉但正式的外交途徑還是要透過外交部去做相關的進展現在換以目前外交部的能力我很懷疑他們到底有沒有這樣的一個能力可以去跟柬埔寨那裡做溝通協調那麼好 那現在人到了中國大陸那裡去了那麼我想請問這個\n市長您知不知道目前在兩岸司法互助的情況之下那麼截至目前為止有多少位大陸移送回台灣的罪犯有多少人各位報告這兩岸\n按照兩岸共打跟司法互助協議我們進行相關的所謂司法互助其實送達的部分甚至完全沒有受影響非常非常多調查舉證相方也進行了非常多倒是人員遣返的部分的確是這幾年來他人員遣返的數字他有下降那基本上是個位數 個案上的遣返他沒有辦到通盤性的遣返其實按照兩岸共打協議他應該要本席基本上這個查了相關的資料\n我感到很遺憾的就是說 大家看看啊 從110年然後到113年 我們罪犯接回來的人數是零就是這三年來 罪犯人數是零 110年當時說從98年到110年總共大概差不多15年的時間 我們總共接回來19位\n那從110年到113年接回來的人數還是19位累計喔 好了我們下一頁來看一下所以呢可以看得出來就是這110年從110年到113年這三年來我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪司法互助協議的執行成效是非常非常糟糕連兩岸的在詐欺罪的合作破獲件數這三年也只有三岸再跟過去比其實差別很大\n這個成效的部分我剛才跟委員報告就人員遣返的確是比較少但其實司法互助不是只有這個包括委員剛才有提到送達調查取證這個相關的司法處境現在進行的也是非常的頻繁人員遣返不定他涉及到一個雙方互相的一個大家互惠他基本上他今天不遣返我們也沒有辦法叫他願意遣返但人員遣返的確這幾年來他是人數變少的\n是我想因為這個部分當然也涉及到就是兩岸的這個刑事制度那麼從我們的角度來講我們當然還是希望台灣人能夠回到台灣來接受相關的法律制裁然後要服刑等等那這個部分的話的確是要多加強那麼我也有看到就是你們近幾年來你們編的兩岸司法互助的預算大概就是千萬大概就是上千萬可是\n看不出來有什麼具體的成效而且是每況愈下我覺得這個問題也很嚴重這當然跟現代政府從民進黨政府執政以來跟對岸的關係在各方面幾乎都已經是降到冰點了都已經是這個兩邊都不交流了連這個司法互助共同打擊犯罪的部分也都停滯不前這個問題是很嚴重\n而且更何況我們的外交也沒有辦法處理相關的問題那在國外的一些犯罪的人全部都移送到中國大陸去我覺得法務部就這方面還是應該要有更積極的作為你看我們現在人員遣返我們對大陸提出了這個要求356個人然後陸方只遣返了10位那麼陸方對我們說提出3位我們遣返1位\n可是我們提出的人很多代表我們很多的人是被關在那裡的對 法務部有沒有什麼想法就未來要怎麼樣改善這個部分各位報告 在正式的管道或者兩岸司法互助協議上的管道其實我們都向陸方請求了但人員遣返部分是涉及到雙方的意願請問兩邊還有在開會嗎正式的會議當然沒有但是透過相關的研討會還是有在只是研討會\n因為這個涉及到我們相關的司法互助或者是相關的情職交換不見得一定要透過正式的途徑有時候透過一個非正式途徑反而容易取得相關的司法互助或者是調查取證那可是你們現在不是近幾年你們到大陸去開會的次數不是越來越少近幾年變少是不是這個是我們這邊的問題還是他們那邊的問題\n是我們這邊的人不願意去還是他們那邊的人不願意讓我們去這個當然是要多雙方要有意見我的想法還是要更積極的處理這個問題那也請法務部可以把這些年來就是要不就近三年來到底我們遣返了哪些人他的犯罪類型是如何然後兩岸破獲的案件是哪些案件把相關的資訊提供給我可以嗎\n好那就麻煩前兩個禮拜之內提供給我因為案件數很少吧對不對 好不好那就兩個星期之內提供給本席做參考好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.087 --> 00:15.298\n好有請王副秘書長還有次長好麻煩次長副秘\n\n00:18.291 --> 00:35.636\n委員早安是王副秘書長還有次長我想剛剛前面一些委員還包含應該是昨天都有一些委員有問到有關於虐童案的那個犯罪嫌疑人他棄保潛逃的問題剛剛王宏威委員其實也說了很多本席今天其實本來也要講這個議題但是呢因為剛剛王宏威委員其實也已經請你們要對這個事情要好好的嚴加處理然後甚至要去\n\n00:47.139 --> 01:08.592\n追究相關承辦法官的責任因為剛剛聽了副秘書長的說明似乎是法官在做相關裁定決定的時候中間可能出了一些有疏失至少您剛剛的說法是不嚴謹不嚴謹的話那代表可能他也要負擔一些行政責任那麼就這個部分的話那我認為說不管是\n\n01:12.174 --> 01:40.835\n司法院或是法務部其實未來在整個橫向的聯繫上面一定要多加強因為已經太多的案例然後讓大家這個社會觀感很不好為什麼這麼重大的一些案子然後這個犯罪嫌疑人就棄保險潛逃了然後最後呢聽兩位的說法就是都是怪罪於因為制度現行的法令不夠完善但是過去其實司法院跟法務部也常常\n\n01:41.475 --> 02:10.072\n會自己頒布很多的行政指導的原則解函式或是作業方式然後請法官跟檢察官這裡都要配合處理那為什麼在這些事情上面卻沒有積極的作為那本席是感到很遺憾那麼希望就是你們能夠深刻的檢討那本席在這邊也要再講一下就是113年其實監察委員林怡蓉她有去\n\n02:13.026 --> 02:23.650\n還有去法務部到行政院去進行相關的考察那麼那個時候呢其實就有這個\n\n02:26.741 --> 02:44.453\n在進行考察的過程當中其實就針對氣保潛逃的問題然後提出七大重點改善項目我想法務部這邊應該很清楚那其中呢像是第六點跟第七點那我認為這部分的話是法務部應該要趕快做\n\n02:46.093 --> 03:13.604\n檢討那麼甚至司法院跟法務部有沒有積極推動棄保檢討罪的這個制定當然我們現在今天看起來就要討論了那麼事實上不僅是這個相關的罪則要盡速的制定那麼同時在這個法律還沒有通過之前像施行細則以及這個作業方式其實都要做我想請教法務部你們在這個監委考察之後你們內部有做些檢討嗎\n\n03:15.858 --> 03:43.241\n各位報告那這個相關的改善措施譬如說科技監控的部分開案量的部分那如同我們上一次的報告我們開案量現在已經從原來的前一年的每年30件現在提升到每年97件所以開案量已經大幅的增加那至於這個有罪羈押制度這涉及到我們跟司法院相關法律見解的不一樣是不是有違反無罪推定原則的問題這還要進行相關的寫下事實上這個法案它是比較爭議性啦有罪就羈押制度所以這法制面的修正那還要進行相關的\n\n03:43.541 --> 04:09.517\n但是你們現在有進行過相關的討論嗎跟司法院事實上我們早就提出來過了只是大家對這個老實講對這個條文它有一些見解上的歧義這個條文就通過了另外有關於這個第七點的這個查記平台部分那我們現在查記平台我們現在已經在整合在一個界面上面上面有各種四種平台的整合讓民眾或者是要使用的予以查詢\n\n04:10.357 --> 04:28.702\n這個我們也做到了所以相關的這個改善部分我們其實已經做相關的改善措施是那請問王副秘書長你們就這一點你們自己內部有在進行檢討嗎跟司法院跟法務部的就第六點還是對就第五點跟第六點呢你們有在開會討論嗎\n\n04:35.245 --> 05:03.662\n我先說有關於那個防逃的那個部分從那個去年以來其實司法院開過幾次大型會議就是增加法官他們賠利他們有關於就是這個敏感度防逃這個敏感度那一方面就是如果說不羈押的話目前科控確實是最有效的那個手段因為目前使用科控被告還沒有一個那個逃跑的那所以我們也讓那個法官真正了解說這個實際上這個科控他怎麼是願意做的\n\n05:04.022 --> 05:28.689\n中文字就跑逃跑了嗎沒有他是沒有科控中文字就是你們這中間的橫向聯繫就出了問題嗎那個是法官他不去下那個處分讓他科控那所以我們也鼓勵法官就是說在有那個必要的時候多使用這個科控那他要了解的話就要對這整個那個制度就是說那個了解還有優化那個制度那這是防逃那個部分那另外有關於就是說\n\n05:29.209 --> 05:32.612\n好那沒關係因為本席的這個諮詢時間有限我希望就是說兩個單位應該要積極的溝通協調看如何是強化棄保潛逃的問題好那接下來我要問一個就是也是日前的新聞報載大家知道有180名的台灣籍的詐騙嫌疑人在柬埔寨\n\n05:50.307 --> 06:14.825\n遭到逮捕沒有經過我國政府的同意以及之前就分了三批遣送到這個大陸去受審那這當然不僅凸顯出我國在第三國的司法協調上面的困境更讓海峽兩岸的共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議的效能看起來是失靈的而且也受到空前的這個質疑那麼我想\n\n06:16.226 --> 06:38.164\n當時這個兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議它最重要的精神就在於說雙方要本持著互惠互助保護人民的權益為原則來處理跨境犯罪的案件可是呢我們看到這個狀況其實在近些年來到底法務部在司法互助在跟兩岸司法互助上面你們有沒有\n\n06:39.045 --> 06:52.716\n更更取得更好的成效還是說根本就這是停滯停滯是屬於停滯的階段沒有任何的成果我首先想請教次長你們知不知道這一批180位嫌犯的名單\n\n06:54.970 --> 07:18.503\n這個其實在整個過程當中法務部跟外交部都有在積極的想要把這180個是不是可以解送到所以你們是知道這一份名單的這個具體名單知不知道我們目前沒有辦法掌握但這個事件我們從頭到尾都是掌握這80個具體名單我倒是不知道我們有沒有掌握但這個事件從頭到尾本部跟外交部跟警政署都是從頭到尾掌握的\n\n07:18.703 --> 07:45.698\n所以你們跟柬埔寨的溝通過程當中他們是完全不理不睬然後就直接將這180位嫌疑犯移送到中國大陸去各位報告事實上本部跟警政組透過外交部外交部事後也發布新聞稿就是說他有相關窮盡的努力希望把這些國人把他解送回台灣來進行相關的偵審程序那你們法務部在中間扮演什麼角色\n\n07:47.445 --> 08:11.235\n我們在法務部法務部他也許是透過法務秘書也許透過駐外的移民秘書相關去進行相關的實質上的外交干涉但正式的外交途徑還是要透過外交部去做相關的進展現在換以目前外交部的能力我很懷疑他們到底有沒有這樣的一個能力可以去跟柬埔寨那裡做溝通協調那麼好那現在人到了中國大陸那裡去了那麼我想請問這個\n\n08:14.377 --> 08:28.278\n市長您知不知道目前在兩岸司法互助的情況之下那麼截至目前為止有多少位大陸移送回台灣的罪犯有多少人各位報告這兩岸\n\n08:29.600 --> 08:54.087\n按照兩岸共打跟司法互助協議我們進行相關的所謂司法互助其實送達的部分甚至完全沒有受影響非常非常多調查舉證相方也進行了非常多倒是人員遣返的部分的確是這幾年來他人員遣返的數字他有下降那基本上是個位數個案上的遣返他沒有辦到通盤性的遣返其實按照兩岸共打協議他應該要本席基本上這個查了相關的資料\n\n08:55.227 --> 09:04.257\n我感到很遺憾的就是說大家看看啊從110年然後到113年我們罪犯接回來的人數是零就是這三年來罪犯人數是零110年當時說從98年到110年總共大概差不多15年的時間我們總共接回來19位\n\n09:17.691 --> 09:45.655\n那從110年到113年接回來的人數還是19位累計喔好了我們下一頁來看一下所以呢可以看得出來就是這110年從110年到113年這三年來我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪司法互助協議的執行成效是非常非常糟糕連兩岸的在詐欺罪的合作破獲件數這三年也只有三岸再跟過去比其實差別很大\n\n09:47.435 --> 10:11.742\n這個成效的部分我剛才跟委員報告就人員遣返的確是比較少但其實司法互助不是只有這個包括委員剛才有提到送達調查取證這個相關的司法處境現在進行的也是非常的頻繁人員遣返不定他涉及到一個雙方互相的一個大家互惠他基本上他今天不遣返我們也沒有辦法叫他願意遣返但人員遣返的確這幾年來他是人數變少的\n\n10:13.442 --> 10:40.492\n是我想因為這個部分當然也涉及到就是兩岸的這個刑事制度那麼從我們的角度來講我們當然還是希望台灣人能夠回到台灣來接受相關的法律制裁然後要服刑等等那這個部分的話的確是要多加強那麼我也有看到就是你們近幾年來你們編的兩岸司法互助的預算大概就是千萬大概就是上千萬可是\n\n10:42.173 --> 11:06.995\n看不出來有什麼具體的成效而且是每況愈下我覺得這個問題也很嚴重這當然跟現代政府從民進黨政府執政以來跟對岸的關係在各方面幾乎都已經是降到冰點了都已經是這個兩邊都不交流了連這個司法互助共同打擊犯罪的部分也都停滯不前這個問題是很嚴重\n\n11:09.764 --> 11:34.854\n而且更何況我們的外交也沒有辦法處理相關的問題那在國外的一些犯罪的人全部都移送到中國大陸去我覺得法務部就這方面還是應該要有更積極的作為你看我們現在人員遣返我們對大陸提出了這個要求356個人然後陸方只遣返了10位那麼陸方對我們說提出3位我們遣返1位\n\n11:35.994 --> 11:56.383\n可是我們提出的人很多代表我們很多的人是被關在那裡的對法務部有沒有什麼想法就未來要怎麼樣改善這個部分各位報告在正式的管道或者兩岸司法互助協議上的管道其實我們都向陸方請求了但人員遣返部分是涉及到雙方的意願請問兩邊還有在開會嗎正式的會議當然沒有但是透過相關的研討會還是有在只是研討會\n\n12:05.007 --> 12:28.702\n因為這個涉及到我們相關的司法互助或者是相關的情職交換不見得一定要透過正式的途徑有時候透過一個非正式途徑反而容易取得相關的司法互助或者是調查取證那可是你們現在不是近幾年你們到大陸去開會的次數不是越來越少近幾年變少是不是這個是我們這邊的問題還是他們那邊的問題\n\n12:32.609 --> 12:59.640\n是我們這邊的人不願意去還是他們那邊的人不願意讓我們去這個當然是要多雙方要有意見我的想法還是要更積極的處理這個問題那也請法務部可以把這些年來就是要不就近三年來到底我們遣返了哪些人他的犯罪類型是如何然後兩岸破獲的案件是哪些案件把相關的資訊提供給我可以嗎\n\n13:00.666 --> 13:10.536\n好那就麻煩前兩個禮拜之內提供給我因為案件數很少吧對不對好不好那就兩個星期之內提供給本席做參考好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.087,"end":15.298,"text":"好 有請王副秘書長還有次長好 麻煩次長副秘"},{"start":18.291,"end":35.636,"text":"委員早安 是 王副秘書長還有次長我想剛剛前面一些委員 還包含應該是昨天都有一些委員有問到有關於虐童案的那個犯罪嫌疑人他棄保潛逃的問題 剛剛王宏威委員其實也說了很多本席今天其實本來也要講這個議題但是呢因為剛剛王宏威委員其實也已經請你們要對這個事情要好好的嚴加處理然後甚至要去"},{"start":47.139,"end":68.592,"text":"追究相關承辦法官的責任因為剛剛聽了副秘書長的說明似乎是法官在做相關裁定決定的時候中間可能出了一些有疏失至少您剛剛的說法是不嚴謹不嚴謹的話那代表可能他也要負擔一些行政責任那麼就這個部分的話那我認為說不管是"},{"start":72.174,"end":100.835,"text":"司法院或是法務部其實未來在整個橫向的聯繫上面一定要多加強因為已經太多的案例然後讓大家這個社會觀感很不好為什麼這麼重大的一些案子然後這個犯罪嫌疑人就棄保險潛逃了然後最後呢聽兩位的說法就是都是怪罪於因為制度現行的法令不夠完善但是過去其實司法院跟法務部也常常"},{"start":101.475,"end":130.072,"text":"會自己頒布很多的行政指導的原則解函式或是作業方式然後請法官跟檢察官這裡都要配合處理那為什麼在這些事情上面卻沒有積極的作為那本席是感到很遺憾那麼希望就是你們能夠深刻的檢討那本席在這邊也要再講一下就是113年其實監察委員林怡蓉她有去"},{"start":133.026,"end":143.65,"text":"還有去法務部到行政院去進行相關的考察 那麼那個時候呢其實就有這個"},{"start":146.741,"end":164.453,"text":"在進行考察的過程當中其實就針對氣保潛逃的問題然後提出七大重點改善項目我想法務部這邊應該很清楚那其中呢像是第六點跟第七點那我認為這部分的話是法務部應該要趕快做"},{"start":166.093,"end":193.604,"text":"檢討那麼甚至司法院跟法務部有沒有積極推動棄保檢討罪的這個制定當然我們現在今天看起來就要討論了那麼事實上不僅是這個相關的罪則要盡速的制定那麼同時在這個法律還沒有通過之前像施行細則以及這個作業方式其實都要做我想請教法務部你們在這個監委考察之後你們內部有做些檢討嗎"},{"start":195.858,"end":223.241,"text":"各位報告那這個相關的改善措施譬如說科技監控的部分開案量的部分那如同我們上一次的報告我們開案量現在已經從原來的前一年的每年30件現在提升到每年97件所以開案量已經大幅的增加那至於這個有罪羈押制度這涉及到我們跟司法院相關法律見解的不一樣是不是有違反無罪推定原則的問題這還要進行相關的寫下事實上這個法案它是比較爭議性啦有罪就羈押制度所以這法制面的修正那還要進行相關的"},{"start":223.541,"end":249.517,"text":"但是你們現在有進行過相關的討論嗎跟司法院事實上我們早就提出來過了只是大家對這個 老實講對這個條文它有一些見解上的歧義這個條文就通過了另外有關於這個第七點的這個查記平台部分那我們現在查記平台我們現在已經在整合在一個界面上面上面有各種四種平台的整合讓民眾或者是要使用的予以查詢"},{"start":250.357,"end":268.702,"text":"這個我們也做到了所以相關的這個改善部分我們其實已經做相關的改善措施是那請問王副秘書長你們就這一點你們自己內部有在進行檢討嗎跟司法院跟法務部的就第六點還是對就第五點跟第六點呢你們有在開會討論嗎"},{"start":275.245,"end":303.662,"text":"我先說有關於那個防逃的那個部分從那個去年以來其實司法院開過幾次大型會議就是增加法官他們賠利他們有關於就是這個敏感度防逃這個敏感度那一方面就是如果說不羈押的話目前科控確實是最有效的那個手段因為目前使用科控被告還沒有一個那個逃跑的那所以我們也讓那個法官真正了解說這個實際上這個科控他怎麼是願意做的"},{"start":304.022,"end":328.689,"text":"中文字就跑逃跑了嗎沒有他是沒有科控中文字就是你們這中間的橫向聯繫就出了問題嗎那個是法官他不去下那個處分讓他科控那所以我們也鼓勵法官就是說在有那個必要的時候多使用這個科控那他要了解的話就要對這整個那個制度就是說那個了解還有優化那個制度那這是防逃那個部分那另外有關於就是說"},{"start":329.209,"end":332.612,"text":"好 那沒關係 因為本席的這個諮詢時間有限我希望就是說兩個單位應該要積極的溝通協調看如何是強化棄保潛逃的問題好 那接下來我要問一個就是也是日前的新聞報載大家知道有180名的台灣籍的詐騙嫌疑人在柬埔寨"},{"start":350.307,"end":374.825,"text":"遭到逮捕沒有經過我國政府的同意以及之前就分了三批遣送到這個大陸去受審那這當然不僅凸顯出我國在第三國的司法協調上面的困境更讓海峽兩岸的共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議的效能看起來是失靈的而且也受到空前的這個質疑那麼我想"},{"start":376.226,"end":398.164,"text":"當時這個兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議它最重要的精神就在於說雙方要本持著互惠互助保護人民的權益為原則來處理跨境犯罪的案件可是呢我們看到這個狀況其實在近些年來到底法務部在司法互助在跟兩岸司法互助上面你們有沒有"},{"start":399.045,"end":412.716,"text":"更更取得更好的成效還是說根本就這是停滯停滯是屬於停滯的階段沒有任何的成果我首先想請教次長你們知不知道這一批180位嫌犯的名單"},{"start":414.97,"end":438.503,"text":"這個其實在整個過程當中法務部跟外交部都有在積極的想要把這180個是不是可以解送到所以你們是知道這一份名單的這個具體名單知不知道我們目前沒有辦法掌握但這個事件我們從頭到尾都是掌握這80個具體名單我倒是不知道我們有沒有掌握但這個事件從頭到尾本部跟外交部跟警政署都是從頭到尾掌握的"},{"start":438.703,"end":465.698,"text":"所以你們跟柬埔寨的溝通過程當中他們是完全不理不睬然後就直接將這180位嫌疑犯移送到中國大陸去各位報告事實上本部跟警政組透過外交部外交部事後也發布新聞稿就是說他有相關窮盡的努力希望把這些國人把他解送回台灣來進行相關的偵審程序那你們法務部在中間扮演什麼角色"},{"start":467.445,"end":491.235,"text":"我們在法務部 法務部他也許是透過法務秘書也許透過駐外的移民秘書相關去進行相關的實質上的外交干涉但正式的外交途徑還是要透過外交部去做相關的進展現在換以目前外交部的能力我很懷疑他們到底有沒有這樣的一個能力可以去跟柬埔寨那裡做溝通協調那麼好 那現在人到了中國大陸那裡去了那麼我想請問這個"},{"start":494.377,"end":508.278,"text":"市長您知不知道目前在兩岸司法互助的情況之下那麼截至目前為止有多少位大陸移送回台灣的罪犯有多少人各位報告這兩岸"},{"start":509.6,"end":534.087,"text":"按照兩岸共打跟司法互助協議我們進行相關的所謂司法互助其實送達的部分甚至完全沒有受影響非常非常多調查舉證相方也進行了非常多倒是人員遣返的部分的確是這幾年來他人員遣返的數字他有下降那基本上是個位數 個案上的遣返他沒有辦到通盤性的遣返其實按照兩岸共打協議他應該要本席基本上這個查了相關的資料"},{"start":535.227,"end":544.257,"text":"我感到很遺憾的就是說 大家看看啊 從110年然後到113年 我們罪犯接回來的人數是零就是這三年來 罪犯人數是零 110年當時說從98年到110年總共大概差不多15年的時間 我們總共接回來19位"},{"start":557.691,"end":585.655,"text":"那從110年到113年接回來的人數還是19位累計喔 好了我們下一頁來看一下所以呢可以看得出來就是這110年從110年到113年這三年來我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪司法互助協議的執行成效是非常非常糟糕連兩岸的在詐欺罪的合作破獲件數這三年也只有三岸再跟過去比其實差別很大"},{"start":587.435,"end":611.742,"text":"這個成效的部分我剛才跟委員報告就人員遣返的確是比較少但其實司法互助不是只有這個包括委員剛才有提到送達調查取證這個相關的司法處境現在進行的也是非常的頻繁人員遣返不定他涉及到一個雙方互相的一個大家互惠他基本上他今天不遣返我們也沒有辦法叫他願意遣返但人員遣返的確這幾年來他是人數變少的"},{"start":613.442,"end":640.492,"text":"是我想因為這個部分當然也涉及到就是兩岸的這個刑事制度那麼從我們的角度來講我們當然還是希望台灣人能夠回到台灣來接受相關的法律制裁然後要服刑等等那這個部分的話的確是要多加強那麼我也有看到就是你們近幾年來你們編的兩岸司法互助的預算大概就是千萬大概就是上千萬可是"},{"start":642.173,"end":666.995,"text":"看不出來有什麼具體的成效而且是每況愈下我覺得這個問題也很嚴重這當然跟現代政府從民進黨政府執政以來跟對岸的關係在各方面幾乎都已經是降到冰點了都已經是這個兩邊都不交流了連這個司法互助共同打擊犯罪的部分也都停滯不前這個問題是很嚴重"},{"start":669.764,"end":694.854,"text":"而且更何況我們的外交也沒有辦法處理相關的問題那在國外的一些犯罪的人全部都移送到中國大陸去我覺得法務部就這方面還是應該要有更積極的作為你看我們現在人員遣返我們對大陸提出了這個要求356個人然後陸方只遣返了10位那麼陸方對我們說提出3位我們遣返1位"},{"start":695.994,"end":716.383,"text":"可是我們提出的人很多代表我們很多的人是被關在那裡的對 法務部有沒有什麼想法就未來要怎麼樣改善這個部分各位報告 在正式的管道或者兩岸司法互助協議上的管道其實我們都向陸方請求了但人員遣返部分是涉及到雙方的意願請問兩邊還有在開會嗎正式的會議當然沒有但是透過相關的研討會還是有在只是研討會"},{"start":725.007,"end":748.702,"text":"因為這個涉及到我們相關的司法互助或者是相關的情職交換不見得一定要透過正式的途徑有時候透過一個非正式途徑反而容易取得相關的司法互助或者是調查取證那可是你們現在不是近幾年你們到大陸去開會的次數不是越來越少近幾年變少是不是這個是我們這邊的問題還是他們那邊的問題"},{"start":752.609,"end":779.64,"text":"是我們這邊的人不願意去還是他們那邊的人不願意讓我們去這個當然是要多雙方要有意見我的想法還是要更積極的處理這個問題那也請法務部可以把這些年來就是要不就近三年來到底我們遣返了哪些人他的犯罪類型是如何然後兩岸破獲的案件是哪些案件把相關的資訊提供給我可以嗎"},{"start":780.666,"end":790.536,"text":"好那就麻煩前兩個禮拜之內提供給我因為案件數很少吧對不對 好不好那就兩個星期之內提供給本席做參考好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":440,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（10時16分）好，有請王副秘書長還有次長。"],["主席：好，麻煩次長、副秘。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早安。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，王副秘書長還有次長。我想剛剛前面一些委員包含昨天有一些委員都問到有關於虐童案的那個教練、犯罪嫌疑人棄保潛逃的問題，剛剛王鴻薇委員其實也說了很多，本席今天其實本來也要講這個議題，但是因為剛剛王鴻薇委員其實也已經請你們要對這個事情要好好地嚴加處理，然後甚至要去追究相關承辦法官的責任，因為剛剛聽了副秘書長的說明，似乎是法官在做相關裁定決定的時候，中間可能出了一些……有疏失，至少您剛剛的說法是不嚴謹，不嚴謹的話，那代表可能他也要負擔一些行政責任，就這個部分的話，我認為不管是司法院或是法務部，其實未來在整個橫向的聯繫上面一定要多加強，因為已經有太多的案例，社會觀感很不好，為什麼這麼重大的一些案子，然後犯罪嫌疑人就棄保潛逃了，然後最後聽兩位的說法就是都怪罪於因為制度、現行的法令不夠完善，但是過去其實司法院跟法務部也常常會自己頒布很多的行政指導的原則、函釋或是作業方式，然後請法官跟檢察官都要配合處理，那為什麼在這些事情上面卻沒有積極的作為？本席是感到很遺憾，希望你們能夠深刻地檢討。","本席在這邊也要再講一下，在113年其實監察委員林郁容有去法務部……對不起，他到行政院去進行相關的考察，在進行考察的過程當中其實就有針對棄保潛逃的問題提出七大重點改善項目，我想法務部這邊應該很清楚，其中像是第六點跟第七點，我認為這個部分的話是法務部應該要趕快做檢討，甚至司法院跟法務部有沒有積極推動棄保潛逃罪的制定，當然我們看起來是今天就要討論，事實上，不僅是相關的罪責要儘速制定，同時在這個法律還沒有通過之前，像施行細則以及作業方式其實都要做，我想請教法務部，你們在監委考察之後，你們內部有做一些檢討嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，相關的改善措施，譬如說科技監控的部分，開案量的部分，如同我們上一次的報告，我們開案量現在已經從原來前一年的每年30件現在提升到每年97件，所以開案量已經大幅地增加。至於有罪羈押制度，這涉及到我們跟司法院相關法律見解的不一樣，是不是有違反無罪推定原則的問題，這還要進行相關的協商，事實上，這個法案是比較有爭議性，因為是有罪就羈押制度，所以法制面的修正還要跟司法院進行相關的溝通。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是你們現在有跟司法院進行過相關的討論嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：事實上我們早就提出來過了，只是老實講，大家對這個條文有一些見解上的歧異，對這個條文有討論過了。另外，有關於第七點的查緝平台部分，我們現在查緝平台已經在整合介面，上面有4種平台的整合，讓民眾或者是要使用的人易於查詢，這個我們也做到了，所以相關的改善部分，我們其實已經做相關的改善措施。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，那請問王副秘書長，你們就這一點自己內部有在進行檢討嗎？跟法務部……"],["王副秘書長梅英：第六點還是……"],["翁委員曉玲：對，就第五點跟第六點呢？你們有在開會討論嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我先說有關於防逃的那個部分，從去年以來其實司法院開過幾次大型會議，就是培力法官有關於防逃的敏感度，那一方面就是如果不羈押的話，目前科控確實是最有效的手段，因為目前使用科控的被告還沒有一個逃跑的，所以我們也讓法官真正了解實際上科控是怎麼運作的。"],["翁委員曉玲：上次科控不是那個鍾文智就逃跑了嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：沒有，他是沒有科控，鍾文智……"],["翁委員曉玲：就是因為你們中間的橫向聯繫出了問題嘛！"],["王副秘書長梅英：那個是法官他不去下那個處分讓他被科控，所以我們也鼓勵法官在有必要的時候多使用科控，他要了解的話就要對整個制度了解，還有優化那個制度，這是防逃的部分。另外有關於就是說……"],["翁委員曉玲：沒關係，因為本席的質詢時間有限，我還有其他問題要詢問，你們兩個單位應該要積極的溝通協調，看如何強化棄保潛逃問題的改善。"],["王副秘書長梅英：好的。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來，我要請教的也是日前新聞有報載的，大家知道有180名臺灣籍的詐騙嫌疑人在柬埔寨遭到逮捕，沒有經過我國政府的同意，之前就分了三批遣送到大陸去受審，這當然不僅凸顯出我國在第三國的司法協調上面的困境，更讓「海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議」的效能看起來是失靈的，也受到空前的質疑。當時這個「海峽當時兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議」最重要的精神就在於雙方要秉持著互惠互助、保護人民權益的原則來處理跨境犯罪的案件，可是在近幾年來，到底法務部在跟兩岸的司法互助上有沒有取得更好的成效？還是根本就是屬於停滯的階段，沒有任何的成果？首先，請教次長知不知道這一批180位嫌犯的名單？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，其實在整個過程當中，法務部跟外交部都有積極地想要把這180位詐騙嫌疑人看是不是可以解送回國。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們是知道這一份名單的？"],["黃次長謀信：關於具體名單知不知道，我們目前沒有辦法掌握，但我們對這個事件從頭到尾都是有掌握的，而這180名嫌犯的具體名單，我倒是不知道我們有沒有掌握，但是對這個事件本部跟外交部還有警政署從頭到尾都是有掌握的。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們跟柬埔寨的溝通過程當中，他們是完全不理不睬，然後就直接將這180位嫌疑犯移送到中國大陸去。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，事實上，本部跟警政署是有透過外交部，而外交部事後也有發布新聞稿說明，他們已有窮盡一切努力，希望把這些國人解送回臺灣進行相關的偵審程序，外交部……"],["翁委員曉玲：你們法務部在中間扮演什麼角色？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，法務部也許是透過法務秘書，也許透過駐外移民秘書進行相關實質上的外交干涉，正式的外交途徑還是要透過外交部做相關的干涉。"],["翁委員曉玲：以目前外交部的能力，我很懷疑他們到底有沒有這樣的能力可以去跟柬埔寨做溝通協調，現在犯人都遣送到了中國大陸。請教次長，你知不知道目前在兩岸司法互助的情況之下，截至目前為止，有多少位從大陸移送回臺灣的罪犯？有多少人？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，我們是按照兩岸共打跟司法互助協議進行相關的司法互助，其實送達的部分甚至完全沒有受到影響，還是非常多，在調查取證的部分，雙方也進行了非常多，倒是人員遣返的部分，的確這幾年來人員遣返的數字是有下降的，基本上是個位數，是個案上的遣返，沒有辦到通盤性的遣返；其實按照兩岸共打協議，應該要……"],["翁委員曉玲：基本上，本席查了相關的資料，我感到很遺憾，從110年到113年我們接回來的罪犯人數是零，也就是這3年來罪犯人數是零，從98年到110年大概差不多總共15年的時間，我們接回來總共19位，從110年到113年接回來的人數還是19位，這是累計喔！所以可以看得出來，從110年到113年這3年來，我們兩岸共同打擊犯罪、司法互助協議的執行成效是非常非常糟糕，連兩岸這3年在詐欺罪合作的破獲件數也只有3案，這跟過去相比差別很大。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這個成效的部分，就人員遣返的確是比較少，但司法互助不是只有這個，包括委員剛才有提到的送達、調查取證，這個相關的司法互助也是進行得非常頻繁，人員遣返就不一定，因涉及到雙方互惠，基本上，他們今天不遣返，我們也沒有辦法，要他們願意遣返，但人員遣返的確這幾年來人數是有變少的。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，因為這個部分當然也涉及到兩岸的刑事制度，從我們的角度來講，當然還是希望臺灣人能夠回到臺灣來接受相關的法律制裁及服刑等等，這個部分的確是要多加強；我有看到你們近幾年來所編列兩岸司法互助的預算大概是上千萬，可是看不出來有什麼具體的成效，而且是每況愈下，我覺得這個問題也很嚴重，從民進黨政府執政以來，跟對岸關係的各方面幾乎都已經是降到冰點了，已經是兩邊都不交流了，連司法互助及共同打擊犯罪的部分也都停滯不前，這個問題是很嚴重的，更何況我們的外交也沒有辦法處理相關的問題，一些在國外犯罪的人全部都移送到中國大陸去，我覺得法務部就這方面還是應該要有更積極的作為。","現在人員遣返的部分，我們對大陸提出了356個人的遣返要求，然後陸方只遣返了10位，陸方對我們提出3位，我們遣返1位，可是我們提出的人數很多，代表我們有很多人是被關在那裡的，法務部有沒有什麼想法，在未來要怎麼樣改善這個部分？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，其實在正式或者兩岸司法互助協議上的管道，我們都有向陸方請求，但人員遣返部分是涉及到雙方的意願，如果我們……"],["翁委員曉玲：請問兩邊的司法單位還有在開會嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：正式的會議是沒有，但是透過相關的研討會還是有在交流……"],["翁委員曉玲：只是研討會？"],["黃次長謀信：因為這個涉及到……我們相關的司法互助或者相關的情資交換不見得一定要透過正式的途徑，有時候透過非正式的途徑反而更容易取得相關的司法互助或者調查取證。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是你們近幾年到大陸去開會的次數不是越來越少了？"],["黃次長謀信：對，近幾年有變少。"],["翁委員曉玲：是不是？"],["黃次長謀信：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：是我們這邊的問題還是他們那邊的問題？是我們這邊的人不願意去，還是他們那邊的人不願意讓我們去？"],["黃次長謀信：當然是雙方都要有意願啦！"],["翁委員曉玲：我的想法是還是要更積極地處理這個問題，也請法務部把近3年來到底我們遣返了哪些人、他的犯罪類型是如何、兩岸破獲的案件是哪些案件等相關的資訊提供給我，可以嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：好。"],["翁委員曉玲：麻煩在兩個禮拜之內提供給我。"],["黃次長謀信：好的，兩個禮拜內。"],["翁委員曉玲：因為案件數很少，對不對？就兩個星期之內提供給本席參考，謝謝。"],["黃次長謀信：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請莊瑞雄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-11","speakers":["吳宗憲","羅智強","王義川","陳培瑜","黃國昌","沈發惠","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","林淑芬"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員羅智強等25 人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案、\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員陳\n培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員陳亭妃等16人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十九條及第四百五十一條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員許智\n傑等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十一條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144301_00001"}}}