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{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 57.614, \"end\": 57.894, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 57.894, \"end\": 59.035, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 59.035, \"end\": 61.016, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 61.016, \"end\": 61.296, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 61.296, \"end\": 61.476, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 61.476, \"end\": 62.297, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 62.297, \"end\": 62.577, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 62.577, \"end\": 62.737, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 62.737, \"end\": 63.057, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 63.057, \"end\": 63.237, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 63.237, 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{\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"貿\"}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 85.339, \"end\": 85.639, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 85.639, \"end\": 85.799, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"礙\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 85.799, \"end\": 85.819, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 85.819, \"end\": 85.959, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 85.959, \"end\": 85.979, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 85.979, \"end\": 85.999, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 85.999, \"end\": 86.34, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 86.34, \"end\": 86.46, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 86.46, \"end\": 86.56, \"score\": 0.551}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 86.56, \"end\": 86.64, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 86.64, \"end\": 86.68, \"score\": 0.44}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, 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108.038, \"score\": 0.543}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 108.038, \"end\": 108.339, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 108.339, \"end\": 108.739, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 108.739, \"end\": 108.96, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 108.96, \"end\": 109.06, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 109.06, \"end\": 109.08, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 109.08, \"end\": 109.2, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 109.2, \"end\": 109.22, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 109.22, \"end\": 109.24, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"逆\", \"start\": 109.24, \"end\": 109.28, \"score\": 0.156}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 109.28, \"end\": 109.3, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 112.003, \"end\": 128.055, \"text\": \"逆差了28億所以在這樣的情況底下如果美方還進一步要逼迫我們在美豬跟美牛上面無論是標示也好或者是萊克多巴胺的標準也好或者是再去放寬其他沒有放寬的事項也好你認為這是公平合理的嗎今天我們對它不是順差我們是逆差那這個川普對外講說你們其他國家賺了我們很多錢很抱歉在農產品這一塊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"逆\", \"start\": 112.003, \"end\": 112.183, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 112.183, \"end\": 112.423, \"score\": 0.591}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 112.423, \"end\": 113.744, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 113.744, \"end\": 113.885, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 113.885, \"end\": 113.985, \"score\": 0.506}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 113.985, \"end\": 114.345, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 114.345, \"end\": 114.425, \"score\": 0.285}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 114.425, \"end\": 114.925, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 114.925, \"end\": 115.105, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 115.105, \"end\": 115.686, 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請問他有沒有萊克多巴胺加拿大的飼養方式他們有沒有添加萊克多巴胺\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 234.808, \"end\": 234.969, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 234.969, \"end\": 235.089, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 235.089, \"end\": 235.469, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"豬\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 235.469, \"end\": 235.629, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 235.629, \"end\": 235.709, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 235.709, \"end\": 235.81, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 235.81, \"end\": 235.95, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 235.95, \"end\": 236.711, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 236.711, \"end\": 236.931, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 236.931, \"end\": 237.091, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 237.091, \"end\": 237.211, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 237.211, 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\"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 240.074, \"end\": 240.154, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 240.154, \"end\": 240.235, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"添\", \"start\": 240.235, \"end\": 240.435, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 240.435, \"end\": 240.755, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"萊\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 240.755, \"end\": 240.895, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 240.895, \"end\": 241.056, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"巴\", \"start\": 241.056, \"end\": 241.176, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"胺\", \"start\": 241.176, \"end\": 241.196, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 242.831, \"end\": 266.574, \"text\": \"應該這樣說其實就衛福部在邊境的檢測部分目前沒有任何一個含有萊克多巴胺的豬肉進到國內不是我是問你說加拿大他們在養他們的加拿大豬的時候養殖的過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺就我所得到資料是沒有好那第二名的這個西班牙豬他們養殖過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺歐盟國家不用\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 242.831, \"end\": 243.191, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 243.191, \"end\": 244.373, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 244.373, \"end\": 244.553, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 244.553, \"end\": 244.693, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 244.693, \"end\": 245.113, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 245.113, \"end\": 245.334, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 245.334, \"end\": 246.234, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 246.234, \"end\": 246.455, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 246.455, \"end\": 246.615, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 246.615, \"end\": 246.835, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 246.835, \"end\": 247.115, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 247.115, \"end\": 247.576, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 247.576, \"end\": 247.876, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 247.876, \"end\": 248.136, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 248.136, \"end\": 248.336, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 248.336, \"end\": 248.717, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 248.717, \"end\": 248.937, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 248.937, \"end\": 249.317, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"萊\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 249.317, \"end\": 249.517, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 249.517, \"end\": 249.738, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"巴\", \"start\": 249.738, \"end\": 249.858, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"胺\", \"start\": 249.858, \"end\": 249.998, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 249.998, \"end\": 250.278, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"豬\"}, {\"word\": \"肉\", \"start\": 250.278, \"end\": 250.538, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 250.538, \"end\": 250.719, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 250.719, \"end\": 251.239, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 251.239, \"end\": 251.359, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 251.359, \"end\": 251.499, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 251.499, \"end\": 251.82, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 251.82, \"end\": 252.24, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 252.24, \"end\": 252.42, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 252.42, \"end\": 252.58, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 252.58, \"end\": 252.781, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 252.781, \"end\": 253.101, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 253.101, \"end\": 253.661, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"養\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 253.661, \"end\": 253.902, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 253.902, \"end\": 254.042, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 254.042, \"end\": 254.202, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 254.202, \"end\": 254.362, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 254.362, \"end\": 254.802, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"豬\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 254.802, \"end\": 255.083, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 255.083, \"end\": 255.924, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"養\"}, {\"word\": \"殖\", \"start\": 255.924, \"end\": 256.064, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 256.064, \"end\": 256.484, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 256.484, \"end\": 256.985, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 256.985, \"end\": 257.305, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"添\", \"start\": 257.305, \"end\": 257.625, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 257.625, \"end\": 258.106, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"萊\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 258.106, \"end\": 258.346, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 258.346, \"end\": 258.606, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"巴\", \"start\": 258.606, \"end\": 258.926, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"胺\", \"start\": 258.926, \"end\": 258.966, \"score\": 0.473}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 258.966, \"end\": 259.127, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 259.127, \"end\": 259.307, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 259.307, \"end\": 259.447, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 259.447, \"end\": 259.567, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 259.567, \"end\": 259.827, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 259.827, \"end\": 259.987, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 259.987, \"end\": 260.087, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 260.087, \"end\": 260.248, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 260.248, \"end\": 260.568, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 260.568, 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\"不\", \"start\": 264.091, \"end\": 264.352, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"添\", \"start\": 264.352, \"end\": 264.552, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 264.552, \"end\": 264.852, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"萊\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 264.852, \"end\": 265.032, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 265.032, \"end\": 265.212, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"巴\", \"start\": 265.212, \"end\": 265.513, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"胺\", \"start\": 265.513, \"end\": 265.873, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 265.873, \"end\": 266.013, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"盟\", \"start\": 266.013, \"end\": 266.253, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 266.253, \"end\": 266.454, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 266.454, \"end\": 266.554, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 266.554, \"end\": 266.574, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 267.615, \"end\": 273.359, \"text\": \"對 好 這個是第一名跟第二名那第三名呢 第三名我們進口的豬肉是哪一個國家不知道 是巴拉圭巴拉圭他們會不會添加巴拉圭也不准用好 那美國他飼養過程就是會添加萊克多巴對不對\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 267.615, \"end\": 268.235, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 268.235, \"end\": 268.375, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 268.375, \"end\": 268.475, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 268.475, \"end\": 268.555, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 268.555, \"end\": 268.735, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 268.735, \"end\": 268.916, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 268.916, \"end\": 269.056, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 269.056, \"end\": 269.216, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 269.216, \"end\": 269.416, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 269.416, \"end\": 269.696, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 269.696, \"end\": 269.956, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"三\", 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272.839, \"end\": 272.899, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"飼\"}, {\"word\": \"養\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 272.899, \"end\": 272.959, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 272.959, \"end\": 273.079, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 273.079, \"end\": 273.099, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"添\", \"start\": 273.099, \"end\": 273.119, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 273.119, \"end\": 273.259, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"萊\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 273.259, \"end\": 273.279, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 273.279, \"end\": 273.299, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"巴\", \"start\": 273.299, \"end\": 273.339, \"score\": 0.221}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 273.339, \"end\": 273.359, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}]}, {\"start\": 288.766, \"end\": 317.654, \"text\": \"它應該有的有的沒有啊它準用但是不見得都會添加對有的有用有的沒有用嘛所以這個就是為什麼我們今天從其他國家進來的這個豬肉我們要去標示這個產地國因為很多國家是不用萊克多巴胺包括台灣我們的飼養是不准添加萊克多巴胺的吧對不對對萊克多巴胺在台灣不只不准添加不准使用不准製造不准運輸也不准承受跟分裝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 288.766, \"end\": 290.627, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 290.627, \"end\": 290.847, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 290.847, \"end\": 291.007, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 291.007, \"end\": 291.207, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 291.207, \"end\": 291.547, \"score\": 0.635}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 291.547, \"end\": 291.767, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 291.767, \"end\": 291.947, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 291.947, \"end\": 291.967, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 291.967, \"end\": 292.247, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 292.247, \"end\": 292.447, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 292.447, \"end\": 292.587, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 292.587, \"end\": 292.707, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 292.707, \"end\": 292.787, \"score\": 0.164}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 292.787, \"end\": 293.007, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 293.007, \"end\": 293.087, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 293.087, \"end\": 293.307, \"score\": 0.575}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"添\", \"start\": 293.307, \"end\": 293.487, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 293.487, \"end\": 294.288, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 294.288, \"end\": 294.448, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 294.448, \"end\": 294.588, \"score\": 0.48}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 294.588, \"end\": 294.788, \"score\": 0.614}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 294.788, \"end\": 295.028, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 295.028, \"end\": 295.168, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": 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\"我們目前查查的狀況就沒有看到進一步有有有證據說是有稀產地的跟委員做進一步的去年零件我們今年去年去做的相關的一個查查我們不管是在衛生局的協作或我們其他的同仁後市場的調查裡面都沒有看到這邊跟委員做進一步\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 548.615, \"end\": 548.835, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 548.835, \"end\": 549.015, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 549.015, \"end\": 549.295, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 549.295, \"end\": 549.455, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 549.455, \"end\": 549.635, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 549.635, \"end\": 550.736, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 550.736, \"end\": 551.176, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 551.176, \"end\": 551.296, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 551.296, \"end\": 551.416, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 551.416, \"end\": 551.576, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 551.576, \"end\": 551.936, \"score\": 0.944}, 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901.055, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 901.055, \"end\": 901.496, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"稽\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 901.496, \"end\": 901.676, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 901.676, \"end\": 902.057, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"徹\"}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 902.057, \"end\": 902.158, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 902.158, \"end\": 902.258, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 902.258, \"end\": 902.278, \"score\": 0.042}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,671 --> 00:00:19,500\n謝謝主席我們首先是不是先請我們經貿談判辦公室的原副總談判代表還有我們剛剛農業部我們的次長一起上台我們這個副總談判代表我首先請教你之前你們已經跟美方有過視訊的會議請問美豬跟美牛有沒有在你們談判的議題之內\n\n2\n00:00:39,163 --> 00:01:03,438\n謝謝委員那我想就是基於台美的談判的互信的問題我們基本上談判的議題是沒有辦法在現階段去跟大家揭露的那未來如果適當的一個時機我們會由我們的鄭麗君副院長所領軍的這個談判小組來跟各位所以你不敢對外表態嗎那這個議題會不會是未來談判的一個重要的議題美豬跟美牛\n\n3\n00:01:06,423 --> 00:01:26,700\n我想我們現在各國都是看依照美國現在他剛剛實際上很多委員都有提出來美國有提出這個NTE的外國貿易障礙調查報告那我想這些都是我們現在自己可以操之在我的一些準備的方向所以只要列在美方的這個非關稅貿易障礙報告裡面的議題就是未來要談判的議題對不對\n\n4\n00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:49,300\n我們只能說它都是一個指引的方向都是一個指引的方向所以就是會談就對了嘛好那這個是我聽到你這邊的說法我要請教一下次長就是說在我們對美的貿易裡面事實上你們今天的報告也很清楚我們的農產品對美國其實是逆差\n\n5\n00:01:52,003 --> 00:02:08,055\n逆差了28億所以在這樣的情況底下如果美方還進一步要逼迫我們在美豬跟美牛上面無論是標示也好或者是萊克多巴胺的標準也好或者是再去放寬其他沒有放寬的事項也好你認為這是公平合理的嗎今天我們對它不是順差我們是逆差那這個川普對外講說你們其他國家賺了我們很多錢很抱歉在農產品這一塊\n\n6\n00:02:20,965 --> 00:02:23,408\n是美國賺了我們28億美元所以他還有立場在農產品這一塊逼迫我們去退讓嗎是不是我們這一塊的底氣相對是主的因為這個沒有川普總統所說的我們賺他錢喔是他們賺我們28億美元喔\n\n7\n00:02:40,256 --> 00:03:03,611\n是謝謝委員特別支持臺灣農業我想如果是我能夠提供任何資料給我們臺灣代表那邊這點我一定會講因為對農業來講我們美國是對我們是順差的是啊其實臺美的貿易其實本來就是互補的我們買進來的黃小玉其實為了臺灣的續產業所以其實疾病上的逆差我想美國應該了解這一點這是第一\n\n8\n00:03:04,071 --> 00:03:19,261\n那第二個進來的黃小玉其實支持我們的畜牧產業所以其實我覺得這是互補的所以我想如果能夠提供給我們台灣他們代表在農產品的在諮商上面這點一定會放在裡面好我希望我們顏副總代表在這邊你也聽到了我覺得我們在對美談判的時候順差跟逆差談法是不一樣的\n\n9\n00:03:25,345 --> 00:03:49,604\n基本上他已經是大量賺我們美金的這個項目我們是更有底氣的我們應該是可以守得很穩的所以在農產品在美豬美牛這一塊我們是有底氣的應該就是要堅守我們的原則我希望我們副總代表在這邊這一點是我們自己有進有退我們的原則應該是要非常清楚的那這個副總代表你可以先回座我接下來請教一下我們次長在我們的現在進口的豬肉裡面\n\n10\n00:03:54,808 --> 00:04:01,196\n這個加拿大豬是第一名嘛請問他有沒有萊克多巴胺加拿大的飼養方式他們有沒有添加萊克多巴胺\n\n11\n00:04:02,831 --> 00:04:26,574\n應該這樣說其實就衛福部在邊境的檢測部分目前沒有任何一個含有萊克多巴胺的豬肉進到國內不是我是問你說加拿大他們在養他們的加拿大豬的時候養殖的過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺就我所得到資料是沒有好那第二名的這個西班牙豬他們養殖過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺歐盟國家不用\n\n12\n00:04:27,615 --> 00:04:33,359\n對好這個是第一名跟第二名那第三名呢第三名我們進口的豬肉是哪一個國家不知道是巴拉圭巴拉圭他們會不會添加巴拉圭也不准用好那美國他飼養過程就是會添加萊克多巴對不對\n\n13\n00:04:48,766 --> 00:05:17,654\n它應該有的有的沒有啊它準用但是不見得都會添加對有的有用有的沒有用嘛所以這個就是為什麼我們今天從其他國家進來的這個豬肉我們要去標示這個產地國因為很多國家是不用萊克多巴胺包括台灣我們的飼養是不准添加萊克多巴胺的吧對不對對萊克多巴胺在台灣不只不准添加不准使用不准製造不准運輸也不准承受跟分裝\n\n14\n00:05:19,135 --> 00:05:39,087\n對這個就是我們看到的你如果從消費者的角度這麼多的國家是不使用的美國是使用的所以我們今天要求每一個國家標示他的原產地請問這個有違反什麼精神這個是從消費者的角度讓他可以去分辨跟選擇如果美國連這個標示都要我們拿掉我個人覺得是非常的不合理啊\n\n15\n00:05:40,207 --> 00:06:08,323\n從剛才石耀署也回答這件事情就是我們對於這個產地的標示並沒有針對美國我們對所有來源都要做標示所以這不會構成任何貿易障礙嘛這也不是問題嘛我要講的就是說今天不是美方說了算嘛他列在他自己認為的這個貿易障礙他自己認為是貿易障礙但是我們必須從我們自己的消費者我們國家的立場去看待嘛我們是對每一個國家都標示啊我不是只有標美國啊加拿大我也標啊\n\n16\n00:06:10,544 --> 00:06:23,389\n另外一個我要問你的就是現在之前有發生過這個洗產地的問題我們現在進口美國的豬肉你如果從這個豬肉儀表板你可以看到到去年有7778公噸豬肉加內臟\n\n17\n00:06:27,931 --> 00:06:30,154\n這個在2023年更是高峰來到16314公噸那這一些進口的美豬還有它的內臟我要問這個農業部的就是請問他們去了哪裡因為市面上包括消費機會他們去把所有的產品拿來看它的標示\n\n18\n00:06:46,914 --> 00:07:11,889\n事實上都很難發現美豬的蹤跡那這些量你不能說他很少喔一萬六千多公噸跟七千多公噸這個量是很大的這樣這個量到了市面上之後完全看不到標示這個農業部有掌握嗎這應該是你們掌握的吧他的流向呃食藥食藥署是不是好那你先請回來食藥食藥署跟部長請上來這個我幫消費者問齁\n\n19\n00:07:16,912 --> 00:07:36,845\n因為按照我們的食安法是要標示成分的但是很多的加工品裡面我們現在都看不到美國豬有看到加拿大但是美國豬就是沒有看見請問都去了哪裡你們不是有做源頭的管理嗎追蹤嗎每一個肉餅商進口進來之後你們會追蹤他的流向我現在就幫消費者問請問這些美豬跟內臟都去了哪裡好是不是這個問題請江署長好署長來\n\n20\n00:07:46,001 --> 00:08:07,528\n謝謝委員的提問有關於豬肉的原產地的標示這件事情那其實是國際的標準所有的都會標示進來的一定都會標示你就直接回答我就是美豬到底現在去了哪裡它的流向去了哪些去處為什麼市面上這些包裝的食品它的原料裡面其實都沒有看到美豬\n\n21\n00:08:09,361 --> 00:08:30,721\n這邊稍微做簡單的說明因為進來之後流布出去的流量其實是市場自由的機制那我們面對這個議題裡面我們就是後市場端我們去查查從110年到114年我們總共查了297,756件其中標示不合格的我們可以看到是111件\n\n22\n00:08:32,563 --> 00:08:52,438\n那其中19件是美豬的產品所以表示我們在查查過程中也不是都是不合格都是美豬其他地方也有可能沒有好好標示只要沒有好標示我們在抽查市場機制我們會堅持做下去總共採取了有300多萬的一個裁罰的金額所以總編跟委員\n\n23\n00:08:52,998 --> 00:09:08,050\n署長我問你2023年有發生席產地的就是美豬標加拿大豬當時這個媒體都有報導那請問這樣的一個席產地的現象到去年2024年還有沒有持續在發生\n\n24\n00:09:08,615 --> 00:09:30,742\n我們目前查查的狀況就沒有看到進一步有有有證據說是有稀產地的跟委員做進一步的去年零件我們今年去年去做的相關的一個查查我們不管是在衛生局的協作或我們其他的同仁後市場的調查裡面都沒有看到這邊跟委員做進一步\n\n25\n00:09:30,742 --> 00:09:56,345\n就沒有息產地的情況還是你們沒查到而已那你們有沒有去比對你們去年有7778公噸喔這7778公噸請問它的流向到哪裡去然後這樣這個流向跟你們的查核你有沒有去做一些勾擊跟比對確定說它沒有去報告一下剛才提到市場機制是出去嘛對不對然後標示我們在\n\n26\n00:09:57,486 --> 00:10:19,324\n行政機關裡面對於這個標示的部分目前我們持續監測的所以監測出來是沒有的因為沒有這樣的結果我們就會很做適當的一個宣布也做長期在我們的儀表板上面做一個揭露那針對這個議題我們持續的不會因為今天講完沒有明天我們就停下來我們還是持續做我們堅持\n\n27\n00:10:20,345 --> 00:10:32,028\n那你應該要跟大家報告7778公噸它的主要的流向是去哪裡都沒有進到食品加工業嗎如果進到食品加工業它就應該要標示嗎但是在後端的所有的產品裡面沒有看見這樣的一個產品那它是化整為零了嗎它是不是都到這種市場上去了變成是絞肉\n\n28\n00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:58,711\n然後絞肉只要他沒有標示或者是在市場上面根本沒有標示所以其實都吃下去大家也不知道還有內臟的部分進這麼多的從豬腳大腸頭肝臉整個他是不是都進到一些的小吃店去但是小如果是小吃店不是也應該要標示嗎\n\n29\n00:11:00,035 --> 00:11:14,332\n這個部分的確是有按照我們的飲食餐廳的標準底下我們有特別的標示也有去查查這個部分而且目前揭露的我們看到非常非常多台灣豬剛才提到台灣食用是佔90%是國內的\n\n30\n00:11:16,394 --> 00:11:31,079\n因此他的標示裡面看到的不管哪一個產地的標示都其實我們消費者一眼其實在清理的時候可以看得出來所以我在問你的就是那明明有7000多公噸到去年還有7000多公噸的豬肉跟內臟進來了\n\n31\n00:11:32,219 --> 00:11:46,064\n但是市面上你沒有看到有任何一個小吃攤有標出來難不成他就消失了嗎他到底去了哪裡呀我要你食藥署要掌握就是你應該要掌握他的流向你才知道說他到底有沒有真實的標示嗎\n\n32\n00:11:46,772 --> 00:12:08,894\n我跟委員做進一步報告因為流向進來之後就會流布出去是啊流布出去的時候我們其實有在邊境的時候就做什麼的BPIBorderProtectionIntelligence用人工智慧去知道所以我們都知道是在哪裡對知道在哪裡如果發生是有違規的我們針對這個人工智慧裡面會增加抽查抽驗的比例\n\n33\n00:12:09,673 --> 00:12:24,805\n你的所謂違規是什麼就是沒有好好標示這是一項中間的一項可是任何的你指的是你原來的那個美國豬肉進口一進口的時候標它是美國豬吧我現在在問你的是它流到下游之後的這個流向\n\n34\n00:12:25,205 --> 00:12:52,630\n照道來講它源頭如果是美國豬我們現在的標示是你即使到下游你是小吃店你是店家你有使用到你就應該要把那個成分說我有使用你可能有使用台灣豬加美國豬你就應該要清楚的揭露但現在市面上完全看不到的情況底下那是不是就是有人有使用但是沒有在標示嘛這一點你們應該要去掌握嘛7000多公噸是很大的一個數量\n\n35\n00:12:53,430 --> 00:13:16,716\n但是市面上看不到也不合理報告委員因為我們查查的過程是一體適用到所有的標示向下之後去查如果沒有特別的違規的狀況之下我們也是一體的對待任何一個廠家他們在標示上面的所以的確我們現在看到的是並沒有特別有違規的一個狀況特別跟委員做進一步的報告\n\n36\n00:13:17,456 --> 00:13:38,443\n對我覺得署長你們現在的查核還是有輸入你們沒有反向去查就是說有些店家你抽查他進口的肉商是從哪邊來這個肉商在網上如果他對到他其實就是從美國進口來的那為什麼他在這一個店家他就沒有標示出來這個就是漏洞嘛就是說這個跟洗產廳是大概一樣的道理\n\n37\n00:13:39,444 --> 00:14:03,465\n2023年有查到這個是大量的它因為是冷凍食品然後它這樣子出去但是現在有更多我懷疑它是進到了一般的傳統市場跟小吃店它根本也沒有在標示要不然你想一個基本的道理就知道消基會說很奇怪啊7000多噸還是一個很大的量結果市面上沒有任何一個產品就是你看到美國豬三個字\n\n38\n00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:16,742\n那這個就是有問題嘛我希望這個食藥署在這個把關上面喔你們還是應該是要就是在運用一些方法好不好謝謝委員我們一定會積極加強的追蹤對你們該集合該查核的才是查核因為今天部長來最後部長你今天對外說你還是會堅持四個原則喔其中有兩個原則一個是落實邊境跟市場稽查我現在在講的就是那你市場稽查這一項其實不能放\n\n39\n00:14:33,385 --> 00:14:58,911\n在我們現行的規定裡面我覺得就是要讓消費者非常清楚的知道我們進口了美國的豬肉跟內臟它到底到哪裡去消費者可以選擇吃或選擇不吃有的人不怕沒有關係有的人他就是要選擇真正的台灣豬他就是不要吃外國的我覺得就是要保留給消費者選擇權好不好我們一定透過部會跟中央地方的合作落實邊境茶葉跟市場的稽查\n\n40\n00:14:59,571 --> 00:15:02,278\n好,我希望市場稽查要徹底的落實,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8671\t19500\t謝謝主席我們首先是不是先請我們經貿談判辦公室的原副總談判代表還有我們剛剛農業部我們的次長一起上台我們這個副總談判代表我首先請教你之前你們已經跟美方有過視訊的會議請問美豬跟美牛有沒有在你們談判的議題之內\n39163\t63438\t謝謝委員那我想就是基於台美的談判的互信的問題我們基本上談判的議題是沒有辦法在現階段去跟大家揭露的那未來如果適當的一個時機我們會由我們的鄭麗君副院長所領軍的這個談判小組來跟各位所以你不敢對外表態嗎那這個議題會不會是未來談判的一個重要的議題美豬跟美牛\n66423\t86700\t我想我們現在各國都是看依照美國現在他剛剛實際上很多委員都有提出來美國有提出這個NTE的外國貿易障礙調查報告那我想這些都是我們現在自己可以操之在我的一些準備的方向所以只要列在美方的這個非關稅貿易障礙報告裡面的議題就是未來要談判的議題對不對\n92560\t109300\t我們只能說它都是一個指引的方向都是一個指引的方向所以就是會談就對了嘛好那這個是我聽到你這邊的說法我要請教一下次長就是說在我們對美的貿易裡面事實上你們今天的報告也很清楚我們的農產品對美國其實是逆差\n112003\t128055\t逆差了28億所以在這樣的情況底下如果美方還進一步要逼迫我們在美豬跟美牛上面無論是標示也好或者是萊克多巴胺的標準也好或者是再去放寬其他沒有放寬的事項也好你認為這是公平合理的嗎今天我們對它不是順差我們是逆差那這個川普對外講說你們其他國家賺了我們很多錢很抱歉在農產品這一塊\n140965\t143408\t是美國賺了我們28億美元所以他還有立場在農產品這一塊逼迫我們去退讓嗎是不是我們這一塊的底氣相對是主的因為這個沒有川普總統所說的我們賺他錢喔是他們賺我們28億美元喔\n160256\t183611\t是 謝謝委員特別支持臺灣農業我想如果是我能夠提供任何資料給我們臺灣代表那邊這點我一定會講因為對農業來講我們美國是對我們是順差的 是啊其實臺美的貿易其實本來就是互補的我們買進來的黃小玉其實為了臺灣的續產業所以其實疾病上的逆差我想美國應該了解這一點這是第一\n184071\t199261\t那第二個進來的黃小玉其實支持我們的畜牧產業所以其實我覺得這是互補的所以我想如果能夠提供給我們台灣他們代表在農產品的在諮商上面這點一定會放在裡面好我希望我們顏副總代表在這邊你也聽到了我覺得我們在對美談判的時候順差跟逆差談法是不一樣的\n205345\t229604\t基本上他已經是大量賺我們美金的這個項目我們是更有底氣的我們應該是可以守得很穩的所以在農產品在美豬美牛這一塊我們是有底氣的應該就是要堅守我們的原則我希望我們副總代表在這邊這一點是我們自己有進有退我們的原則應該是要非常清楚的那這個副總代表你可以先回座我接下來請教一下我們次長在我們的現在進口的豬肉裡面\n234808\t241196\t這個加拿大豬是第一名嘛 請問他有沒有萊克多巴胺加拿大的飼養方式他們有沒有添加萊克多巴胺\n242831\t266574\t應該這樣說其實就衛福部在邊境的檢測部分目前沒有任何一個含有萊克多巴胺的豬肉進到國內不是我是問你說加拿大他們在養他們的加拿大豬的時候養殖的過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺就我所得到資料是沒有好那第二名的這個西班牙豬他們養殖過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺歐盟國家不用\n267615\t273359\t對 好 這個是第一名跟第二名那第三名呢 第三名我們進口的豬肉是哪一個國家不知道 是巴拉圭巴拉圭他們會不會添加巴拉圭也不准用好 那美國他飼養過程就是會添加萊克多巴對不對\n288766\t317654\t它應該有的有的沒有啊它準用但是不見得都會添加對有的有用有的沒有用嘛所以這個就是為什麼我們今天從其他國家進來的這個豬肉我們要去標示這個產地國因為很多國家是不用萊克多巴胺包括台灣我們的飼養是不准添加萊克多巴胺的吧對不對對萊克多巴胺在台灣不只不准添加不准使用不准製造不准運輸也不准承受跟分裝\n319135\t339087\t對 這個就是我們看到的 你如果從消費者的角度這麼多的國家是不使用的 美國是使用的所以我們今天要求每一個國家標示他的原產地請問這個有違反什麼精神這個是從消費者的角度讓他可以去分辨跟選擇如果美國連這個標示都要我們拿掉 我個人覺得是非常的不合理啊\n340207\t368323\t從剛才石耀署也回答這件事情就是我們對於這個產地的標示並沒有針對美國我們對所有來源都要做標示所以這不會構成任何貿易障礙嘛這也不是問題嘛我要講的就是說今天不是美方說了算嘛他列在他自己認為的這個貿易障礙他自己認為是貿易障礙但是我們必須從我們自己的消費者我們國家的立場去看待嘛我們是對每一個國家都標示啊我不是只有標美國啊加拿大我也標啊\n370544\t383389\t另外一個我要問你的就是現在之前有發生過這個洗產地的問題我們現在進口美國的豬肉你如果從這個豬肉儀表板你可以看到到去年有7778公噸豬肉加內臟\n387931\t390154\t這個在2023年更是高峰 來到16314公噸那這一些進口的美豬 還有它的內臟我要問這個農業部的就是 請問他們去了哪裡因為市面上 包括消費機會 他們去把所有的產品拿來看它的標示\n406914\t431889\t事實上都很難發現美豬的蹤跡那這些量你不能說他很少喔一萬六千多公噸跟七千多公噸這個量是很大的這樣這個量到了市面上之後完全看不到標示這個農業部有掌握嗎這應該是你們掌握的吧他的流向呃食藥食藥署是不是好那你先請回來食藥食藥署跟部長請上來這個我幫消費者問齁\n436912\t456845\t因為按照我們的食安法是要標示成分的但是很多的加工品裡面我們現在都看不到美國豬有看到加拿大但是美國豬就是沒有看見請問都去了哪裡你們不是有做源頭的管理嗎追蹤嗎每一個肉餅商進口進來之後你們會追蹤他的流向我現在就幫消費者問請問這些美豬跟內臟都去了哪裡好是不是這個問題請江署長好 署長來\n466001\t487528\t謝謝委員的提問有關於豬肉的原產地的標示這件事情那其實是國際的標準所有的都會標示進來的一定都會標示你就直接回答我就是美豬到底現在去了哪裡它的流向去了哪些去處為什麼市面上這些包裝的食品它的原料裡面其實都沒有看到美豬\n489361\t510721\t這邊稍微做簡單的說明因為進來之後流布出去的流量其實是市場自由的機制那我們面對這個議題裡面我們就是後市場端我們去查查從110年到114年我們總共查了297,756件其中標示不合格的我們可以看到是111件\n512563\t532438\t那其中19件是美豬的產品所以表示我們在查查過程中也不是都是不合格都是美豬其他地方也有可能沒有好好標示只要沒有好標示我們在抽查市場機制我們會堅持做下去總共採取了有300多萬的一個裁罰的金額所以總編跟委員\n532998\t548050\t署長我問你2023年有發生席產地的就是美豬標加拿大豬當時這個媒體都有報導那請問這樣的一個席產地的現象到去年2024年還有沒有持續在發生\n548615\t570742\t我們目前查查的狀況就沒有看到進一步有有有證據說是有稀產地的跟委員做進一步的去年零件我們今年去年去做的相關的一個查查我們不管是在衛生局的協作或我們其他的同仁後市場的調查裡面都沒有看到這邊跟委員做進一步\n570742\t596345\t就沒有息產地的情況還是你們沒查到而已那你們有沒有去比對你們去年有7778公噸喔這7778公噸請問它的流向到哪裡去然後這樣這個流向跟你們的查核你有沒有去做一些勾擊跟比對確定說它沒有去報告一下剛才提到市場機制是出去嘛對不對然後標示我們在\n597486\t619324\t行政機關裡面對於這個標示的部分目前我們持續監測的所以監測出來是沒有的因為沒有這樣的結果我們就會很做適當的一個宣布也做長期在我們的儀表板上面做一個揭露那針對這個議題我們持續的不會因為今天講完沒有明天我們就停下來我們還是持續做我們堅持\n620345\t632028\t那你應該要跟大家報告7778公噸它的主要的流向是去哪裡都沒有進到食品加工業嗎如果進到食品加工業它就應該要標示嗎但是在後端的所有的產品裡面沒有看見這樣的一個產品那它是化整為零了嗎它是不是都到這種市場上去了變成是絞肉\n641730\t658711\t然後絞肉只要他沒有標示或者是在市場上面根本沒有標示所以其實都吃下去大家也不知道還有內臟的部分進這麼多的從豬腳大腸頭肝臉整個他是不是都進到一些的小吃店去但是小如果是小吃店不是也應該要標示嗎\n660035\t674332\t這個部分的確是有 按照我們的飲食餐廳的標準底下我們有特別的標示也有去查查這個部分而且目前揭露的我們看到非常非常多台灣豬剛才提到台灣食用是佔90%是國內的\n676394\t691079\t因此他的標示裡面看到的不管哪一個產地的標示都其實我們消費者一眼其實在清理的時候可以看得出來所以我在問你的就是那明明有7000多公噸到去年還有7000多公噸的豬肉跟內臟進來了\n692219\t706064\t但是市面上你沒有看到有任何一個小吃攤有標出來難不成他就消失了嗎他到底去了哪裡呀我要你食藥署要掌握就是你應該要掌握他的流向你才知道說他到底有沒有真實的標示嗎\n706772\t728894\t我跟委員做進一步報告因為流向進來之後就會流布出去是啊流布出去的時候我們其實有在邊境的時候就做什麼的BPIBorder Protection Intelligence用人工智慧去知道所以我們都知道是在哪裡對知道在哪裡如果發生是有違規的我們針對這個人工智慧裡面會增加抽查抽驗的比例\n729673\t744805\t你的所謂違規是什麼就是沒有好好標示這是一項中間的一項可是任何的你指的是你原來的那個美國豬肉進口一進口的時候標它是美國豬吧我現在在問你的是它流到下游之後的這個流向\n745205\t772630\t照道來講它源頭如果是美國豬我們現在的標示是你即使到下游你是小吃店 你是店家你有使用到你就應該要把那個成分說我有使用你可能有使用台灣豬加美國豬你就應該要清楚的揭露但現在市面上完全看不到的情況底下那是不是就是有人有使用但是沒有在標示嘛這一點你們應該要去掌握嘛7000多公噸是很大的一個數量\n773430\t796716\t但是市面上看不到也不合理報告委員因為我們查查的過程是一體適用到所有的標示向下之後去查如果沒有特別的違規的狀況之下我們也是一體的對待任何一個廠家他們在標示上面的所以的確我們現在看到的是並沒有特別有違規的一個狀況特別跟委員做進一步的報告\n797456\t818443\t對 我覺得署長你們現在的查核還是有輸入 你們沒有反向去查就是說有些店家你抽查 他進口的肉商是從哪邊來這個肉商在網上 如果他對到 他其實就是從美國進口來的那為什麼他在這一個店家 他就沒有標示出來這個就是漏洞嘛 就是說這個跟洗產廳是大概一樣的道理\n819444\t843465\t2023年有查到這個是大量的它因為是冷凍食品然後它這樣子出去但是現在有更多我懷疑它是進到了一般的傳統市場跟小吃店它根本也沒有在標示要不然你想一個基本的道理就知道消基會說很奇怪啊7000多噸還是一個很大的量結果市面上沒有任何一個產品就是你看到美國豬三個字\n844400\t856742\t那這個就是有問題嘛我希望這個食藥署在這個把關上面喔你們還是應該是要就是在運用一些方法 好不好謝謝委員 我們一定會積極加強的追蹤對 你們該集合 該查核的才是查核因為今天部長 來最後部長你今天對外說你還是會堅持四個原則喔其中有兩個原則一個是落實邊境跟市場稽查我現在在講的就是那你市場稽查這一項其實不能放\n873385\t898911\t在我們現行的規定裡面我覺得就是要讓消費者非常清楚的知道我們進口了美國的豬肉跟內臟它到底到哪裡去消費者可以選擇吃或選擇不吃有的人不怕沒有關係有的人他就是要選擇真正的台灣豬他就是不要吃外國的我覺得就是要保留給消費者選擇權好不好我們一定透過部會跟中央地方的合作落實邊境茶葉跟市場的稽查\n899571\t902278\t好,我希望市場稽查要徹底的落實,謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們首先是不是先請我們經貿談判辦公室的原副總談判代表還有我們剛剛農業部我們的次長一起上台我們這個副總談判代表我首先請教你之前你們已經跟美方有過視訊的會議請問美豬跟美牛有沒有在你們談判的議題之內\n謝謝委員那我想就是基於台美的談判的互信的問題我們基本上談判的議題是沒有辦法在現階段去跟大家揭露的那未來如果適當的一個時機我們會由我們的鄭麗君副院長所領軍的這個談判小組來跟各位所以你不敢對外表態嗎那這個議題會不會是未來談判的一個重要的議題美豬跟美牛\n我想我們現在各國都是看依照美國現在他剛剛實際上很多委員都有提出來美國有提出這個NTE的外國貿易障礙調查報告那我想這些都是我們現在自己可以操之在我的一些準備的方向所以只要列在美方的這個非關稅貿易障礙報告裡面的議題就是未來要談判的議題對不對\n我們只能說它都是一個指引的方向都是一個指引的方向所以就是會談就對了嘛好那這個是我聽到你這邊的說法我要請教一下次長就是說在我們對美的貿易裡面事實上你們今天的報告也很清楚我們的農產品對美國其實是逆差\n逆差了28億所以在這樣的情況底下如果美方還進一步要逼迫我們在美豬跟美牛上面無論是標示也好或者是萊克多巴胺的標準也好或者是再去放寬其他沒有放寬的事項也好你認為這是公平合理的嗎今天我們對它不是順差我們是逆差那這個川普對外講說你們其他國家賺了我們很多錢很抱歉在農產品這一塊\n是美國賺了我們28億美元所以他還有立場在農產品這一塊逼迫我們去退讓嗎是不是我們這一塊的底氣相對是主的因為這個沒有川普總統所說的我們賺他錢喔是他們賺我們28億美元喔\n是 謝謝委員特別支持臺灣農業我想如果是我能夠提供任何資料給我們臺灣代表那邊這點我一定會講因為對農業來講我們美國是對我們是順差的 是啊其實臺美的貿易其實本來就是互補的我們買進來的黃小玉其實為了臺灣的續產業所以其實疾病上的逆差我想美國應該了解這一點這是第一\n那第二個進來的黃小玉其實支持我們的畜牧產業所以其實我覺得這是互補的所以我想如果能夠提供給我們台灣他們代表在農產品的在諮商上面這點一定會放在裡面好我希望我們顏副總代表在這邊你也聽到了我覺得我們在對美談判的時候順差跟逆差談法是不一樣的\n基本上他已經是大量賺我們美金的這個項目我們是更有底氣的我們應該是可以守得很穩的所以在農產品在美豬美牛這一塊我們是有底氣的應該就是要堅守我們的原則我希望我們副總代表在這邊這一點是我們自己有進有退我們的原則應該是要非常清楚的那這個副總代表你可以先回座我接下來請教一下我們次長在我們的現在進口的豬肉裡面\n這個加拿大豬是第一名嘛 請問他有沒有萊克多巴胺加拿大的飼養方式他們有沒有添加萊克多巴胺\n應該這樣說其實就衛福部在邊境的檢測部分目前沒有任何一個含有萊克多巴胺的豬肉進到國內不是我是問你說加拿大他們在養他們的加拿大豬的時候養殖的過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺就我所得到資料是沒有好那第二名的這個西班牙豬他們養殖過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺歐盟國家不用\n對 好 這個是第一名跟第二名那第三名呢 第三名我們進口的豬肉是哪一個國家不知道 是巴拉圭巴拉圭他們會不會添加巴拉圭也不准用好 那美國他飼養過程就是會添加萊克多巴對不對\n它應該有的有的沒有啊它準用但是不見得都會添加對有的有用有的沒有用嘛所以這個就是為什麼我們今天從其他國家進來的這個豬肉我們要去標示這個產地國因為很多國家是不用萊克多巴胺包括台灣我們的飼養是不准添加萊克多巴胺的吧對不對對萊克多巴胺在台灣不只不准添加不准使用不准製造不准運輸也不准承受跟分裝\n對 這個就是我們看到的 你如果從消費者的角度這麼多的國家是不使用的 美國是使用的所以我們今天要求每一個國家標示他的原產地請問這個有違反什麼精神這個是從消費者的角度讓他可以去分辨跟選擇如果美國連這個標示都要我們拿掉 我個人覺得是非常的不合理啊\n從剛才石耀署也回答這件事情就是我們對於這個產地的標示並沒有針對美國我們對所有來源都要做標示所以這不會構成任何貿易障礙嘛這也不是問題嘛我要講的就是說今天不是美方說了算嘛他列在他自己認為的這個貿易障礙他自己認為是貿易障礙但是我們必須從我們自己的消費者我們國家的立場去看待嘛我們是對每一個國家都標示啊我不是只有標美國啊加拿大我也標啊\n另外一個我要問你的就是現在之前有發生過這個洗產地的問題我們現在進口美國的豬肉你如果從這個豬肉儀表板你可以看到到去年有7778公噸豬肉加內臟\n這個在2023年更是高峰 來到16314公噸那這一些進口的美豬 還有它的內臟我要問這個農業部的就是 請問他們去了哪裡因為市面上 包括消費機會 他們去把所有的產品拿來看它的標示\n事實上都很難發現美豬的蹤跡那這些量你不能說他很少喔一萬六千多公噸跟七千多公噸這個量是很大的這樣這個量到了市面上之後完全看不到標示這個農業部有掌握嗎這應該是你們掌握的吧他的流向呃食藥食藥署是不是好那你先請回來食藥食藥署跟部長請上來這個我幫消費者問齁\n因為按照我們的食安法是要標示成分的但是很多的加工品裡面我們現在都看不到美國豬有看到加拿大但是美國豬就是沒有看見請問都去了哪裡你們不是有做源頭的管理嗎追蹤嗎每一個肉餅商進口進來之後你們會追蹤他的流向我現在就幫消費者問請問這些美豬跟內臟都去了哪裡好是不是這個問題請江署長好 署長來\n謝謝委員的提問有關於豬肉的原產地的標示這件事情那其實是國際的標準所有的都會標示進來的一定都會標示你就直接回答我就是美豬到底現在去了哪裡它的流向去了哪些去處為什麼市面上這些包裝的食品它的原料裡面其實都沒有看到美豬\n這邊稍微做簡單的說明因為進來之後流布出去的流量其實是市場自由的機制那我們面對這個議題裡面我們就是後市場端我們去查查從110年到114年我們總共查了297,756件其中標示不合格的我們可以看到是111件\n那其中19件是美豬的產品所以表示我們在查查過程中也不是都是不合格都是美豬其他地方也有可能沒有好好標示只要沒有好標示我們在抽查市場機制我們會堅持做下去總共採取了有300多萬的一個裁罰的金額所以總編跟委員\n署長我問你2023年有發生席產地的就是美豬標加拿大豬當時這個媒體都有報導那請問這樣的一個席產地的現象到去年2024年還有沒有持續在發生\n我們目前查查的狀況就沒有看到進一步有有有證據說是有稀產地的跟委員做進一步的去年零件我們今年去年去做的相關的一個查查我們不管是在衛生局的協作或我們其他的同仁後市場的調查裡面都沒有看到這邊跟委員做進一步\n就沒有息產地的情況還是你們沒查到而已那你們有沒有去比對你們去年有7778公噸喔這7778公噸請問它的流向到哪裡去然後這樣這個流向跟你們的查核你有沒有去做一些勾擊跟比對確定說它沒有去報告一下剛才提到市場機制是出去嘛對不對然後標示我們在\n行政機關裡面對於這個標示的部分目前我們持續監測的所以監測出來是沒有的因為沒有這樣的結果我們就會很做適當的一個宣布也做長期在我們的儀表板上面做一個揭露那針對這個議題我們持續的不會因為今天講完沒有明天我們就停下來我們還是持續做我們堅持\n那你應該要跟大家報告7778公噸它的主要的流向是去哪裡都沒有進到食品加工業嗎如果進到食品加工業它就應該要標示嗎但是在後端的所有的產品裡面沒有看見這樣的一個產品那它是化整為零了嗎它是不是都到這種市場上去了變成是絞肉\n然後絞肉只要他沒有標示或者是在市場上面根本沒有標示所以其實都吃下去大家也不知道還有內臟的部分進這麼多的從豬腳大腸頭肝臉整個他是不是都進到一些的小吃店去但是小如果是小吃店不是也應該要標示嗎\n這個部分的確是有 按照我們的飲食餐廳的標準底下我們有特別的標示也有去查查這個部分而且目前揭露的我們看到非常非常多台灣豬剛才提到台灣食用是佔90%是國內的\n因此他的標示裡面看到的不管哪一個產地的標示都其實我們消費者一眼其實在清理的時候可以看得出來所以我在問你的就是那明明有7000多公噸到去年還有7000多公噸的豬肉跟內臟進來了\n但是市面上你沒有看到有任何一個小吃攤有標出來難不成他就消失了嗎他到底去了哪裡呀我要你食藥署要掌握就是你應該要掌握他的流向你才知道說他到底有沒有真實的標示嗎\n我跟委員做進一步報告因為流向進來之後就會流布出去是啊流布出去的時候我們其實有在邊境的時候就做什麼的BPIBorder Protection Intelligence用人工智慧去知道所以我們都知道是在哪裡對知道在哪裡如果發生是有違規的我們針對這個人工智慧裡面會增加抽查抽驗的比例\n你的所謂違規是什麼就是沒有好好標示這是一項中間的一項可是任何的你指的是你原來的那個美國豬肉進口一進口的時候標它是美國豬吧我現在在問你的是它流到下游之後的這個流向\n照道來講它源頭如果是美國豬我們現在的標示是你即使到下游你是小吃店 你是店家你有使用到你就應該要把那個成分說我有使用你可能有使用台灣豬加美國豬你就應該要清楚的揭露但現在市面上完全看不到的情況底下那是不是就是有人有使用但是沒有在標示嘛這一點你們應該要去掌握嘛7000多公噸是很大的一個數量\n但是市面上看不到也不合理報告委員因為我們查查的過程是一體適用到所有的標示向下之後去查如果沒有特別的違規的狀況之下我們也是一體的對待任何一個廠家他們在標示上面的所以的確我們現在看到的是並沒有特別有違規的一個狀況特別跟委員做進一步的報告\n對 我覺得署長你們現在的查核還是有輸入 你們沒有反向去查就是說有些店家你抽查 他進口的肉商是從哪邊來這個肉商在網上 如果他對到 他其實就是從美國進口來的那為什麼他在這一個店家 他就沒有標示出來這個就是漏洞嘛 就是說這個跟洗產廳是大概一樣的道理\n2023年有查到這個是大量的它因為是冷凍食品然後它這樣子出去但是現在有更多我懷疑它是進到了一般的傳統市場跟小吃店它根本也沒有在標示要不然你想一個基本的道理就知道消基會說很奇怪啊7000多噸還是一個很大的量結果市面上沒有任何一個產品就是你看到美國豬三個字\n那這個就是有問題嘛我希望這個食藥署在這個把關上面喔你們還是應該是要就是在運用一些方法 好不好謝謝委員 我們一定會積極加強的追蹤對 你們該集合 該查核的才是查核因為今天部長 來最後部長你今天對外說你還是會堅持四個原則喔其中有兩個原則一個是落實邊境跟市場稽查我現在在講的就是那你市場稽查這一項其實不能放\n在我們現行的規定裡面我覺得就是要讓消費者非常清楚的知道我們進口了美國的豬肉跟內臟它到底到哪裡去消費者可以選擇吃或選擇不吃有的人不怕沒有關係有的人他就是要選擇真正的台灣豬他就是不要吃外國的我覺得就是要保留給消費者選擇權好不好我們一定透過部會跟中央地方的合作落實邊境茶葉跟市場的稽查\n好,我希望市場稽查要徹底的落實,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.671 --> 00:19.500\n謝謝主席我們首先是不是先請我們經貿談判辦公室的原副總談判代表還有我們剛剛農業部我們的次長一起上台我們這個副總談判代表我首先請教你之前你們已經跟美方有過視訊的會議請問美豬跟美牛有沒有在你們談判的議題之內\n\n00:39.163 --> 01:03.438\n謝謝委員那我想就是基於台美的談判的互信的問題我們基本上談判的議題是沒有辦法在現階段去跟大家揭露的那未來如果適當的一個時機我們會由我們的鄭麗君副院長所領軍的這個談判小組來跟各位所以你不敢對外表態嗎那這個議題會不會是未來談判的一個重要的議題美豬跟美牛\n\n01:06.423 --> 01:26.700\n我想我們現在各國都是看依照美國現在他剛剛實際上很多委員都有提出來美國有提出這個NTE的外國貿易障礙調查報告那我想這些都是我們現在自己可以操之在我的一些準備的方向所以只要列在美方的這個非關稅貿易障礙報告裡面的議題就是未來要談判的議題對不對\n\n01:32.560 --> 01:49.300\n我們只能說它都是一個指引的方向都是一個指引的方向所以就是會談就對了嘛好那這個是我聽到你這邊的說法我要請教一下次長就是說在我們對美的貿易裡面事實上你們今天的報告也很清楚我們的農產品對美國其實是逆差\n\n01:52.003 --> 02:08.055\n逆差了28億所以在這樣的情況底下如果美方還進一步要逼迫我們在美豬跟美牛上面無論是標示也好或者是萊克多巴胺的標準也好或者是再去放寬其他沒有放寬的事項也好你認為這是公平合理的嗎今天我們對它不是順差我們是逆差那這個川普對外講說你們其他國家賺了我們很多錢很抱歉在農產品這一塊\n\n02:20.965 --> 02:23.408\n是美國賺了我們28億美元所以他還有立場在農產品這一塊逼迫我們去退讓嗎是不是我們這一塊的底氣相對是主的因為這個沒有川普總統所說的我們賺他錢喔是他們賺我們28億美元喔\n\n02:40.256 --> 03:03.611\n是謝謝委員特別支持臺灣農業我想如果是我能夠提供任何資料給我們臺灣代表那邊這點我一定會講因為對農業來講我們美國是對我們是順差的是啊其實臺美的貿易其實本來就是互補的我們買進來的黃小玉其實為了臺灣的續產業所以其實疾病上的逆差我想美國應該了解這一點這是第一\n\n03:04.071 --> 03:19.261\n那第二個進來的黃小玉其實支持我們的畜牧產業所以其實我覺得這是互補的所以我想如果能夠提供給我們台灣他們代表在農產品的在諮商上面這點一定會放在裡面好我希望我們顏副總代表在這邊你也聽到了我覺得我們在對美談判的時候順差跟逆差談法是不一樣的\n\n03:25.345 --> 03:49.604\n基本上他已經是大量賺我們美金的這個項目我們是更有底氣的我們應該是可以守得很穩的所以在農產品在美豬美牛這一塊我們是有底氣的應該就是要堅守我們的原則我希望我們副總代表在這邊這一點是我們自己有進有退我們的原則應該是要非常清楚的那這個副總代表你可以先回座我接下來請教一下我們次長在我們的現在進口的豬肉裡面\n\n03:54.808 --> 04:01.196\n這個加拿大豬是第一名嘛請問他有沒有萊克多巴胺加拿大的飼養方式他們有沒有添加萊克多巴胺\n\n04:02.831 --> 04:26.574\n應該這樣說其實就衛福部在邊境的檢測部分目前沒有任何一個含有萊克多巴胺的豬肉進到國內不是我是問你說加拿大他們在養他們的加拿大豬的時候養殖的過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺就我所得到資料是沒有好那第二名的這個西班牙豬他們養殖過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺歐盟國家不用\n\n04:27.615 --> 04:33.359\n對好這個是第一名跟第二名那第三名呢第三名我們進口的豬肉是哪一個國家不知道是巴拉圭巴拉圭他們會不會添加巴拉圭也不准用好那美國他飼養過程就是會添加萊克多巴對不對\n\n04:48.766 --> 05:17.654\n它應該有的有的沒有啊它準用但是不見得都會添加對有的有用有的沒有用嘛所以這個就是為什麼我們今天從其他國家進來的這個豬肉我們要去標示這個產地國因為很多國家是不用萊克多巴胺包括台灣我們的飼養是不准添加萊克多巴胺的吧對不對對萊克多巴胺在台灣不只不准添加不准使用不准製造不准運輸也不准承受跟分裝\n\n05:19.135 --> 05:39.087\n對這個就是我們看到的你如果從消費者的角度這麼多的國家是不使用的美國是使用的所以我們今天要求每一個國家標示他的原產地請問這個有違反什麼精神這個是從消費者的角度讓他可以去分辨跟選擇如果美國連這個標示都要我們拿掉我個人覺得是非常的不合理啊\n\n05:40.207 --> 06:08.323\n從剛才石耀署也回答這件事情就是我們對於這個產地的標示並沒有針對美國我們對所有來源都要做標示所以這不會構成任何貿易障礙嘛這也不是問題嘛我要講的就是說今天不是美方說了算嘛他列在他自己認為的這個貿易障礙他自己認為是貿易障礙但是我們必須從我們自己的消費者我們國家的立場去看待嘛我們是對每一個國家都標示啊我不是只有標美國啊加拿大我也標啊\n\n06:10.544 --> 06:23.389\n另外一個我要問你的就是現在之前有發生過這個洗產地的問題我們現在進口美國的豬肉你如果從這個豬肉儀表板你可以看到到去年有7778公噸豬肉加內臟\n\n06:27.931 --> 06:30.154\n這個在2023年更是高峰來到16314公噸那這一些進口的美豬還有它的內臟我要問這個農業部的就是請問他們去了哪裡因為市面上包括消費機會他們去把所有的產品拿來看它的標示\n\n06:46.914 --> 07:11.889\n事實上都很難發現美豬的蹤跡那這些量你不能說他很少喔一萬六千多公噸跟七千多公噸這個量是很大的這樣這個量到了市面上之後完全看不到標示這個農業部有掌握嗎這應該是你們掌握的吧他的流向呃食藥食藥署是不是好那你先請回來食藥食藥署跟部長請上來這個我幫消費者問齁\n\n07:16.912 --> 07:36.845\n因為按照我們的食安法是要標示成分的但是很多的加工品裡面我們現在都看不到美國豬有看到加拿大但是美國豬就是沒有看見請問都去了哪裡你們不是有做源頭的管理嗎追蹤嗎每一個肉餅商進口進來之後你們會追蹤他的流向我現在就幫消費者問請問這些美豬跟內臟都去了哪裡好是不是這個問題請江署長好署長來\n\n07:46.001 --> 08:07.528\n謝謝委員的提問有關於豬肉的原產地的標示這件事情那其實是國際的標準所有的都會標示進來的一定都會標示你就直接回答我就是美豬到底現在去了哪裡它的流向去了哪些去處為什麼市面上這些包裝的食品它的原料裡面其實都沒有看到美豬\n\n08:09.361 --> 08:30.721\n這邊稍微做簡單的說明因為進來之後流布出去的流量其實是市場自由的機制那我們面對這個議題裡面我們就是後市場端我們去查查從110年到114年我們總共查了297,756件其中標示不合格的我們可以看到是111件\n\n08:32.563 --> 08:52.438\n那其中19件是美豬的產品所以表示我們在查查過程中也不是都是不合格都是美豬其他地方也有可能沒有好好標示只要沒有好標示我們在抽查市場機制我們會堅持做下去總共採取了有300多萬的一個裁罰的金額所以總編跟委員\n\n08:52.998 --> 09:08.050\n署長我問你2023年有發生席產地的就是美豬標加拿大豬當時這個媒體都有報導那請問這樣的一個席產地的現象到去年2024年還有沒有持續在發生\n\n09:08.615 --> 09:30.742\n我們目前查查的狀況就沒有看到進一步有有有證據說是有稀產地的跟委員做進一步的去年零件我們今年去年去做的相關的一個查查我們不管是在衛生局的協作或我們其他的同仁後市場的調查裡面都沒有看到這邊跟委員做進一步\n\n09:30.742 --> 09:56.345\n就沒有息產地的情況還是你們沒查到而已那你們有沒有去比對你們去年有7778公噸喔這7778公噸請問它的流向到哪裡去然後這樣這個流向跟你們的查核你有沒有去做一些勾擊跟比對確定說它沒有去報告一下剛才提到市場機制是出去嘛對不對然後標示我們在\n\n09:57.486 --> 10:19.324\n行政機關裡面對於這個標示的部分目前我們持續監測的所以監測出來是沒有的因為沒有這樣的結果我們就會很做適當的一個宣布也做長期在我們的儀表板上面做一個揭露那針對這個議題我們持續的不會因為今天講完沒有明天我們就停下來我們還是持續做我們堅持\n\n10:20.345 --> 10:32.028\n那你應該要跟大家報告7778公噸它的主要的流向是去哪裡都沒有進到食品加工業嗎如果進到食品加工業它就應該要標示嗎但是在後端的所有的產品裡面沒有看見這樣的一個產品那它是化整為零了嗎它是不是都到這種市場上去了變成是絞肉\n\n10:41.730 --> 10:58.711\n然後絞肉只要他沒有標示或者是在市場上面根本沒有標示所以其實都吃下去大家也不知道還有內臟的部分進這麼多的從豬腳大腸頭肝臉整個他是不是都進到一些的小吃店去但是小如果是小吃店不是也應該要標示嗎\n\n11:00.035 --> 11:14.332\n這個部分的確是有按照我們的飲食餐廳的標準底下我們有特別的標示也有去查查這個部分而且目前揭露的我們看到非常非常多台灣豬剛才提到台灣食用是佔90%是國內的\n\n11:16.394 --> 11:31.079\n因此他的標示裡面看到的不管哪一個產地的標示都其實我們消費者一眼其實在清理的時候可以看得出來所以我在問你的就是那明明有7000多公噸到去年還有7000多公噸的豬肉跟內臟進來了\n\n11:32.219 --> 11:46.064\n但是市面上你沒有看到有任何一個小吃攤有標出來難不成他就消失了嗎他到底去了哪裡呀我要你食藥署要掌握就是你應該要掌握他的流向你才知道說他到底有沒有真實的標示嗎\n\n11:46.772 --> 12:08.894\n我跟委員做進一步報告因為流向進來之後就會流布出去是啊流布出去的時候我們其實有在邊境的時候就做什麼的BPIBorderProtectionIntelligence用人工智慧去知道所以我們都知道是在哪裡對知道在哪裡如果發生是有違規的我們針對這個人工智慧裡面會增加抽查抽驗的比例\n\n12:09.673 --> 12:24.805\n你的所謂違規是什麼就是沒有好好標示這是一項中間的一項可是任何的你指的是你原來的那個美國豬肉進口一進口的時候標它是美國豬吧我現在在問你的是它流到下游之後的這個流向\n\n12:25.205 --> 12:52.630\n照道來講它源頭如果是美國豬我們現在的標示是你即使到下游你是小吃店你是店家你有使用到你就應該要把那個成分說我有使用你可能有使用台灣豬加美國豬你就應該要清楚的揭露但現在市面上完全看不到的情況底下那是不是就是有人有使用但是沒有在標示嘛這一點你們應該要去掌握嘛7000多公噸是很大的一個數量\n\n12:53.430 --> 13:16.716\n但是市面上看不到也不合理報告委員因為我們查查的過程是一體適用到所有的標示向下之後去查如果沒有特別的違規的狀況之下我們也是一體的對待任何一個廠家他們在標示上面的所以的確我們現在看到的是並沒有特別有違規的一個狀況特別跟委員做進一步的報告\n\n13:17.456 --> 13:38.443\n對我覺得署長你們現在的查核還是有輸入你們沒有反向去查就是說有些店家你抽查他進口的肉商是從哪邊來這個肉商在網上如果他對到他其實就是從美國進口來的那為什麼他在這一個店家他就沒有標示出來這個就是漏洞嘛就是說這個跟洗產廳是大概一樣的道理\n\n13:39.444 --> 14:03.465\n2023年有查到這個是大量的它因為是冷凍食品然後它這樣子出去但是現在有更多我懷疑它是進到了一般的傳統市場跟小吃店它根本也沒有在標示要不然你想一個基本的道理就知道消基會說很奇怪啊7000多噸還是一個很大的量結果市面上沒有任何一個產品就是你看到美國豬三個字\n\n14:04.400 --> 14:16.742\n那這個就是有問題嘛我希望這個食藥署在這個把關上面喔你們還是應該是要就是在運用一些方法好不好謝謝委員我們一定會積極加強的追蹤對你們該集合該查核的才是查核因為今天部長來最後部長你今天對外說你還是會堅持四個原則喔其中有兩個原則一個是落實邊境跟市場稽查我現在在講的就是那你市場稽查這一項其實不能放\n\n14:33.385 --> 14:58.911\n在我們現行的規定裡面我覺得就是要讓消費者非常清楚的知道我們進口了美國的豬肉跟內臟它到底到哪裡去消費者可以選擇吃或選擇不吃有的人不怕沒有關係有的人他就是要選擇真正的台灣豬他就是不要吃外國的我覺得就是要保留給消費者選擇權好不好我們一定透過部會跟中央地方的合作落實邊境茶葉跟市場的稽查\n\n14:59.571 --> 15:02.278\n好,我希望市場稽查要徹底的落實,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.671,"end":19.5,"text":"謝謝主席我們首先是不是先請我們經貿談判辦公室的原副總談判代表還有我們剛剛農業部我們的次長一起上台我們這個副總談判代表我首先請教你之前你們已經跟美方有過視訊的會議請問美豬跟美牛有沒有在你們談判的議題之內"},{"start":39.163,"end":63.438,"text":"謝謝委員那我想就是基於台美的談判的互信的問題我們基本上談判的議題是沒有辦法在現階段去跟大家揭露的那未來如果適當的一個時機我們會由我們的鄭麗君副院長所領軍的這個談判小組來跟各位所以你不敢對外表態嗎那這個議題會不會是未來談判的一個重要的議題美豬跟美牛"},{"start":66.423,"end":86.7,"text":"我想我們現在各國都是看依照美國現在他剛剛實際上很多委員都有提出來美國有提出這個NTE的外國貿易障礙調查報告那我想這些都是我們現在自己可以操之在我的一些準備的方向所以只要列在美方的這個非關稅貿易障礙報告裡面的議題就是未來要談判的議題對不對"},{"start":92.56,"end":109.3,"text":"我們只能說它都是一個指引的方向都是一個指引的方向所以就是會談就對了嘛好那這個是我聽到你這邊的說法我要請教一下次長就是說在我們對美的貿易裡面事實上你們今天的報告也很清楚我們的農產品對美國其實是逆差"},{"start":112.003,"end":128.055,"text":"逆差了28億所以在這樣的情況底下如果美方還進一步要逼迫我們在美豬跟美牛上面無論是標示也好或者是萊克多巴胺的標準也好或者是再去放寬其他沒有放寬的事項也好你認為這是公平合理的嗎今天我們對它不是順差我們是逆差那這個川普對外講說你們其他國家賺了我們很多錢很抱歉在農產品這一塊"},{"start":140.965,"end":143.408,"text":"是美國賺了我們28億美元所以他還有立場在農產品這一塊逼迫我們去退讓嗎是不是我們這一塊的底氣相對是主的因為這個沒有川普總統所說的我們賺他錢喔是他們賺我們28億美元喔"},{"start":160.256,"end":183.611,"text":"是 謝謝委員特別支持臺灣農業我想如果是我能夠提供任何資料給我們臺灣代表那邊這點我一定會講因為對農業來講我們美國是對我們是順差的 是啊其實臺美的貿易其實本來就是互補的我們買進來的黃小玉其實為了臺灣的續產業所以其實疾病上的逆差我想美國應該了解這一點這是第一"},{"start":184.071,"end":199.261,"text":"那第二個進來的黃小玉其實支持我們的畜牧產業所以其實我覺得這是互補的所以我想如果能夠提供給我們台灣他們代表在農產品的在諮商上面這點一定會放在裡面好我希望我們顏副總代表在這邊你也聽到了我覺得我們在對美談判的時候順差跟逆差談法是不一樣的"},{"start":205.345,"end":229.604,"text":"基本上他已經是大量賺我們美金的這個項目我們是更有底氣的我們應該是可以守得很穩的所以在農產品在美豬美牛這一塊我們是有底氣的應該就是要堅守我們的原則我希望我們副總代表在這邊這一點是我們自己有進有退我們的原則應該是要非常清楚的那這個副總代表你可以先回座我接下來請教一下我們次長在我們的現在進口的豬肉裡面"},{"start":234.808,"end":241.196,"text":"這個加拿大豬是第一名嘛 請問他有沒有萊克多巴胺加拿大的飼養方式他們有沒有添加萊克多巴胺"},{"start":242.831,"end":266.574,"text":"應該這樣說其實就衛福部在邊境的檢測部分目前沒有任何一個含有萊克多巴胺的豬肉進到國內不是我是問你說加拿大他們在養他們的加拿大豬的時候養殖的過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺就我所得到資料是沒有好那第二名的這個西班牙豬他們養殖過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺歐盟國家不用"},{"start":267.615,"end":273.359,"text":"對 好 這個是第一名跟第二名那第三名呢 第三名我們進口的豬肉是哪一個國家不知道 是巴拉圭巴拉圭他們會不會添加巴拉圭也不准用好 那美國他飼養過程就是會添加萊克多巴對不對"},{"start":288.766,"end":317.654,"text":"它應該有的有的沒有啊它準用但是不見得都會添加對有的有用有的沒有用嘛所以這個就是為什麼我們今天從其他國家進來的這個豬肉我們要去標示這個產地國因為很多國家是不用萊克多巴胺包括台灣我們的飼養是不准添加萊克多巴胺的吧對不對對萊克多巴胺在台灣不只不准添加不准使用不准製造不准運輸也不准承受跟分裝"},{"start":319.135,"end":339.087,"text":"對 這個就是我們看到的 你如果從消費者的角度這麼多的國家是不使用的 美國是使用的所以我們今天要求每一個國家標示他的原產地請問這個有違反什麼精神這個是從消費者的角度讓他可以去分辨跟選擇如果美國連這個標示都要我們拿掉 我個人覺得是非常的不合理啊"},{"start":340.207,"end":368.323,"text":"從剛才石耀署也回答這件事情就是我們對於這個產地的標示並沒有針對美國我們對所有來源都要做標示所以這不會構成任何貿易障礙嘛這也不是問題嘛我要講的就是說今天不是美方說了算嘛他列在他自己認為的這個貿易障礙他自己認為是貿易障礙但是我們必須從我們自己的消費者我們國家的立場去看待嘛我們是對每一個國家都標示啊我不是只有標美國啊加拿大我也標啊"},{"start":370.544,"end":383.389,"text":"另外一個我要問你的就是現在之前有發生過這個洗產地的問題我們現在進口美國的豬肉你如果從這個豬肉儀表板你可以看到到去年有7778公噸豬肉加內臟"},{"start":387.931,"end":390.154,"text":"這個在2023年更是高峰 來到16314公噸那這一些進口的美豬 還有它的內臟我要問這個農業部的就是 請問他們去了哪裡因為市面上 包括消費機會 他們去把所有的產品拿來看它的標示"},{"start":406.914,"end":431.889,"text":"事實上都很難發現美豬的蹤跡那這些量你不能說他很少喔一萬六千多公噸跟七千多公噸這個量是很大的這樣這個量到了市面上之後完全看不到標示這個農業部有掌握嗎這應該是你們掌握的吧他的流向呃食藥食藥署是不是好那你先請回來食藥食藥署跟部長請上來這個我幫消費者問齁"},{"start":436.912,"end":456.845,"text":"因為按照我們的食安法是要標示成分的但是很多的加工品裡面我們現在都看不到美國豬有看到加拿大但是美國豬就是沒有看見請問都去了哪裡你們不是有做源頭的管理嗎追蹤嗎每一個肉餅商進口進來之後你們會追蹤他的流向我現在就幫消費者問請問這些美豬跟內臟都去了哪裡好是不是這個問題請江署長好 署長來"},{"start":466.001,"end":487.528,"text":"謝謝委員的提問有關於豬肉的原產地的標示這件事情那其實是國際的標準所有的都會標示進來的一定都會標示你就直接回答我就是美豬到底現在去了哪裡它的流向去了哪些去處為什麼市面上這些包裝的食品它的原料裡面其實都沒有看到美豬"},{"start":489.361,"end":510.721,"text":"這邊稍微做簡單的說明因為進來之後流布出去的流量其實是市場自由的機制那我們面對這個議題裡面我們就是後市場端我們去查查從110年到114年我們總共查了297,756件其中標示不合格的我們可以看到是111件"},{"start":512.563,"end":532.438,"text":"那其中19件是美豬的產品所以表示我們在查查過程中也不是都是不合格都是美豬其他地方也有可能沒有好好標示只要沒有好標示我們在抽查市場機制我們會堅持做下去總共採取了有300多萬的一個裁罰的金額所以總編跟委員"},{"start":532.998,"end":548.05,"text":"署長我問你2023年有發生席產地的就是美豬標加拿大豬當時這個媒體都有報導那請問這樣的一個席產地的現象到去年2024年還有沒有持續在發生"},{"start":548.615,"end":570.742,"text":"我們目前查查的狀況就沒有看到進一步有有有證據說是有稀產地的跟委員做進一步的去年零件我們今年去年去做的相關的一個查查我們不管是在衛生局的協作或我們其他的同仁後市場的調查裡面都沒有看到這邊跟委員做進一步"},{"start":570.742,"end":596.345,"text":"就沒有息產地的情況還是你們沒查到而已那你們有沒有去比對你們去年有7778公噸喔這7778公噸請問它的流向到哪裡去然後這樣這個流向跟你們的查核你有沒有去做一些勾擊跟比對確定說它沒有去報告一下剛才提到市場機制是出去嘛對不對然後標示我們在"},{"start":597.486,"end":619.324,"text":"行政機關裡面對於這個標示的部分目前我們持續監測的所以監測出來是沒有的因為沒有這樣的結果我們就會很做適當的一個宣布也做長期在我們的儀表板上面做一個揭露那針對這個議題我們持續的不會因為今天講完沒有明天我們就停下來我們還是持續做我們堅持"},{"start":620.345,"end":632.028,"text":"那你應該要跟大家報告7778公噸它的主要的流向是去哪裡都沒有進到食品加工業嗎如果進到食品加工業它就應該要標示嗎但是在後端的所有的產品裡面沒有看見這樣的一個產品那它是化整為零了嗎它是不是都到這種市場上去了變成是絞肉"},{"start":641.73,"end":658.711,"text":"然後絞肉只要他沒有標示或者是在市場上面根本沒有標示所以其實都吃下去大家也不知道還有內臟的部分進這麼多的從豬腳大腸頭肝臉整個他是不是都進到一些的小吃店去但是小如果是小吃店不是也應該要標示嗎"},{"start":660.035,"end":674.332,"text":"這個部分的確是有 按照我們的飲食餐廳的標準底下我們有特別的標示也有去查查這個部分而且目前揭露的我們看到非常非常多台灣豬剛才提到台灣食用是佔90%是國內的"},{"start":676.394,"end":691.079,"text":"因此他的標示裡面看到的不管哪一個產地的標示都其實我們消費者一眼其實在清理的時候可以看得出來所以我在問你的就是那明明有7000多公噸到去年還有7000多公噸的豬肉跟內臟進來了"},{"start":692.219,"end":706.064,"text":"但是市面上你沒有看到有任何一個小吃攤有標出來難不成他就消失了嗎他到底去了哪裡呀我要你食藥署要掌握就是你應該要掌握他的流向你才知道說他到底有沒有真實的標示嗎"},{"start":706.772,"end":728.894,"text":"我跟委員做進一步報告因為流向進來之後就會流布出去是啊流布出去的時候我們其實有在邊境的時候就做什麼的BPIBorder Protection Intelligence用人工智慧去知道所以我們都知道是在哪裡對知道在哪裡如果發生是有違規的我們針對這個人工智慧裡面會增加抽查抽驗的比例"},{"start":729.673,"end":744.805,"text":"你的所謂違規是什麼就是沒有好好標示這是一項中間的一項可是任何的你指的是你原來的那個美國豬肉進口一進口的時候標它是美國豬吧我現在在問你的是它流到下游之後的這個流向"},{"start":745.205,"end":772.63,"text":"照道來講它源頭如果是美國豬我們現在的標示是你即使到下游你是小吃店 你是店家你有使用到你就應該要把那個成分說我有使用你可能有使用台灣豬加美國豬你就應該要清楚的揭露但現在市面上完全看不到的情況底下那是不是就是有人有使用但是沒有在標示嘛這一點你們應該要去掌握嘛7000多公噸是很大的一個數量"},{"start":773.43,"end":796.716,"text":"但是市面上看不到也不合理報告委員因為我們查查的過程是一體適用到所有的標示向下之後去查如果沒有特別的違規的狀況之下我們也是一體的對待任何一個廠家他們在標示上面的所以的確我們現在看到的是並沒有特別有違規的一個狀況特別跟委員做進一步的報告"},{"start":797.456,"end":818.443,"text":"對 我覺得署長你們現在的查核還是有輸入 你們沒有反向去查就是說有些店家你抽查 他進口的肉商是從哪邊來這個肉商在網上 如果他對到 他其實就是從美國進口來的那為什麼他在這一個店家 他就沒有標示出來這個就是漏洞嘛 就是說這個跟洗產廳是大概一樣的道理"},{"start":819.444,"end":843.465,"text":"2023年有查到這個是大量的它因為是冷凍食品然後它這樣子出去但是現在有更多我懷疑它是進到了一般的傳統市場跟小吃店它根本也沒有在標示要不然你想一個基本的道理就知道消基會說很奇怪啊7000多噸還是一個很大的量結果市面上沒有任何一個產品就是你看到美國豬三個字"},{"start":844.4,"end":856.742,"text":"那這個就是有問題嘛我希望這個食藥署在這個把關上面喔你們還是應該是要就是在運用一些方法 好不好謝謝委員 我們一定會積極加強的追蹤對 你們該集合 該查核的才是查核因為今天部長 來最後部長你今天對外說你還是會堅持四個原則喔其中有兩個原則一個是落實邊境跟市場稽查我現在在講的就是那你市場稽查這一項其實不能放"},{"start":873.385,"end":898.911,"text":"在我們現行的規定裡面我覺得就是要讓消費者非常清楚的知道我們進口了美國的豬肉跟內臟它到底到哪裡去消費者可以選擇吃或選擇不吃有的人不怕沒有關係有的人他就是要選擇真正的台灣豬他就是不要吃外國的我覺得就是要保留給消費者選擇權好不好我們一定透過部會跟中央地方的合作落實邊境茶葉跟市場的稽查"},{"start":899.571,"end":902.278,"text":"好,我希望市場稽查要徹底的落實,謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":370,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時20分）謝謝主席，首先請經貿談判辦公室顏副總談判代表及農業部次長一起上臺。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：我首先請教副總談判代表，之前你們已經跟美方有過視訊的會議，請問美豬跟美牛有沒有在你們談判的議題之內？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員，基於臺美談判的互信原則，基本上，談判的議題是沒有辦法在現階段跟大家揭露的，未來如果有適當的時機，會由鄭麗君副院長所領軍的談判小組來跟各位做說明。"],["王委員育敏：所以你不敢對外表態嘛！美豬跟美牛的議題會不會是未來談判的一個重要議題？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想我們……"],["王委員育敏：會或不會？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：現在各國都是依照美國現在……剛剛實際上很多委員都有提出來，美國有提出外國貿易障礙調查報告（NTE），我想這些都是我們現在可以操之在我的準備方向。"],["王委員育敏：所以只要列在美方非關稅貿易障礙報告裡面的議題，就是未來要談判的議題，對不對？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們只能說這都是一個指引的方向。"],["王委員育敏：都是一個指引的方向，所以就是會談就對了嘛！這個是我聽到你這邊的說法。我要請教一下次長，在我們對美的貿易裡面，事實上你們今天的報告也很清楚，我們的農產品對美國其實是逆差，逆差了28億，在這樣的情況底下，如果美方還進一步要逼迫我們在美豬跟美牛上面，無論是標示也好，或者是萊克多巴胺的標準也好，或者是再去放寬其他沒有放寬的事項也好，你認為這是公平合理的嗎？今天我們對它不是順差，我們是逆差耶！川普對外講說其他國家賺了他們很多錢，很抱歉，在農產品這一塊是美國賺了我們28億美元，所以他還有立場在農產品這一塊逼迫我們去退讓嗎？是不是我們這一塊的底氣相對是足的？因為這個沒有川普總統所說的我們賺他們錢，而是他們賺我們28億美元喔！"],["杜次長文珍：謝謝委員特別支持臺灣農業，如果我能夠提供任何資料給我們的談判代表，這一點我一定會講，因為以農業來講，美國對我們是順差28億美元。"],["王委員育敏：是啊！"],["杜次長文珍：其實臺美貿易本來就是互補的，我們買進來的黃、小、玉是為了臺灣的畜產業，所以即便有這樣的逆差，我想美國應該要了解這一點，這是第一個。第二個，進來的黃、小、玉其實是支持我們的畜牧產業，所以我覺得這是互補的，我想如果能夠提供給我們談判代表在農產品上面的諮商，這一點一定會放在裡面。"],["王委員育敏：好，顏副總談判代表在這邊，你也聽到了，我覺得我們在對美談判的時候，順差跟逆差的談法是不一樣的，基本上，它在這一個項目已經是大量賺我們的美金，我們是更有底氣的，我們應該是可以守得很穩的，所以在農產品的美豬、美牛這一塊我們是有底氣的，應該要堅守我們的原則，副總談判代表在這邊，這一點是我們自己有進有退，我們的原則應該是要非常清楚的，副總談判代表可以先回座。","我接下來請教一下次長，在現在進口的豬肉裡面，加拿大豬是第一名，請問它有沒有萊克多巴胺？加拿大的飼養方式，他們有沒有添加萊克多巴胺？"],["杜次長文珍：應該這樣說，就衛福部在邊境的檢測部分，目前沒有任何一個含有萊克多巴胺的豬肉進到國內。"],["王委員育敏：不是，我是問你加拿大在養他們加拿大豬的時候，養殖的過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺？"],["杜次長文珍：就我所得到資料是沒有。"],["王委員育敏：好。第二名是西班牙豬，他們養殖過程會不會添加萊克多巴胺？"],["杜次長文珍：歐盟國家不用。"],["王委員育敏：對，這個是第一名跟第二名，那第三名呢？我們進口第三名的豬肉是哪一個國家？不知道？是不是巴拉圭？"],["杜次長文珍：巴拉圭。"],["王委員育敏：他們會不會添加？"],["杜次長文珍：巴拉圭也不准用。"],["王委員育敏：好。美國飼養的過程就是會添加萊克多巴胺，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：它應該是准用，但不見得……"],["王委員育敏：有的有、有的沒有。"],["杜次長文珍：它准用，但是不見得都會添加。"],["王委員育敏：對，有的有用，有的沒有用，所以這個就是為什麼我們今天從其他國家進口的豬肉要標示產地國，因為很多國家是不用萊克多巴胺的，包括臺灣，我們的飼養是不准添加萊克多巴胺的，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：對，萊克多巴胺在臺灣不只不准添加、不准使用、不准製造、不准運輸，也不准承售跟分裝。"],["王委員育敏：對，這個就是我們看到的，你如果從消費者的角度來看，這麼多的國家是不使用的，美國是使用的，所以我們今天要求每一個國家標示它的原產地，請問這個有違反什麼精神？這都是從消費者的角度，讓他可以去分辨跟選擇，如果美國連這個標示都要我們拿掉，我個人覺得是非常的不合理！"],["杜次長文珍：剛才食藥署也有回答這件事情，就是我們對於產地的標示並沒有針對美國，我們對所有來源國都要求要做標示。"],["王委員育敏：是啊！所以這不會構成任何貿易障礙，這也不是問題，我要講的就是今天不是美方說了算，它列在它自己認為的貿易障礙，它自己認為是貿易障礙，但是我們必須從我們自己的消費者、我們國家的立場去看待，我們是要求每一個國家都標示，不是只有標美國，加拿大我們也標，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：是。"],["王委員育敏：好，另外一個我要問你的就是，之前有發生過洗產地的問題，我們現在進口美國的豬肉，從豬肉儀表板可以看到到去年有7,778公噸（豬肉加內臟），在2023年更是高峰，來到1萬6,314公噸，這一些進口的美豬還有它的內臟，我要問農業部的就是，請問他們去了哪裡？因為市面上包括消基會，他們去把所有的產品拿來，看它的標示，事實上都很難發現美豬的蹤跡，這些量你不能說它很少，一萬六千多公噸跟七千多公噸，這個量是很大的，這樣的一個量到了市面上之後，完全看不到標示，這個農業部有掌握嗎？它的流向應該是你們要掌握的吧！"],["杜次長文珍：是食藥署。"],["王委員育敏：食藥署是不是？好，那你先請回。來，食藥署跟部長請上來。我幫消費者問，因為按照我們的食安法是要標示成分的，但是很多的加工品裡面我們現在都看不到美國豬，有看到加拿大，但是美國豬就是沒有看見，請問都去了哪裡？你們不是有做源頭的管理、追蹤，每一個肉品商進口之後，你們會追蹤它的流向，我現在就幫消費者問，請問這些美豬跟內臟都去了哪裡？"],["邱部長泰源：這個問題是不是請姜署長回答？"],["王委員育敏：好，署長來。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員的提問，有關豬肉原產地的標示這件事情，其實是國際的標準，所有進來的一定都會標示。"],["王委員育敏：對，現在你就直接回答我，就是美豬現在到底去了哪裡，它的流向去了哪些去處？為什麼市面上這一些包裝的食品，它的原料裡面都沒有看到美豬？"],["姜署長至剛：這邊稍微做簡單的說明，因為進來之後流不出去的流量，其實是市場自由的機制，面對這個議題，我們就是從後市場端去查察。從110年到114年我們總共查了29萬7,756件，其中標示不合格的，我們可以看到是111件，其中19件是美豬的產品，所以表示我們在查察過程中，不合格的也不是都是美豬，其他地方也有可能沒有好好標示，只要沒有好好標示，我們抽查市場的機制會堅持做下去。總共裁處了三百多萬的金額，所以從這邊跟委員……"],["王委員育敏：好，署長，我問你，2023年有發生洗產地的問題，就是美豬標加拿大豬，當時這個媒體都有報導，請問這樣的一個洗產地的現象，到去（2024）年還有沒有持續發生？"],["姜署長至剛：就我們目前查察的狀況，沒有看到進一步的證據顯示是有洗產地的，跟委員做進一步的報告。"],["王委員育敏：去年零件？都沒有？"],["姜署長至剛：對，我們今年、去年做的相關查察，不管是衛生局的協作或我們其他的同仁在後市場的調查裡面，都沒有看到，這邊跟委員做進一步的說明。"],["王委員育敏：是沒有洗產地的情況，還是你們沒查到而已？你們有沒有去比對？去年有7,778公噸喔！"],["姜署長至剛：對，跟委員報告一下……"],["王委員育敏：請問這7,778公噸的流向到哪裡去？這樣的一個流向跟你們的查核，你有沒有去做一些勾稽跟比對？確定它沒有……"],["姜署長至剛：我跟委員報告一下，剛才提到市場機制是出去，對不對？"],["王委員育敏：對。"],["姜署長至剛：目前我們行政機關對於這個標示的部分是持續監測的，監測出來是沒有的，因為沒有這樣的結果，我們就會做適當的宣布，也長期在我們的儀表板上面做揭露。針對這個議題，我們不會因為今天講沒有，明天我們就停下來，我們還是會持續做我們堅持的工作。"],["王委員育敏：那你應該要跟大家報告啊！7,778公噸主要的流向是去哪裡，都沒有進到食品加工業嗎？如果進到食品加工業，它就應該要標示，但是在後端的所有產品裡面都沒有看見這樣的產品，那它是化整為零了嗎？它是不是都到市場上去了？變成絞肉，然後絞肉只要它沒有標示，或者是在市場上沒有標示，其實都吃下去了大家也不知道。還有內臟的部分進這麼多，豬腳、大腸頭、肝連，它是不是都進到一些小吃店去了？但是即便是小吃店，不是也應該要標示嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：這個部分的確是有……"],["王委員育敏：你們真的有好好去追蹤嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：按照飲食餐廳的標準，我們有特別的標示，也有去查察這個部分，而且目前揭露的資料，我們剛剛看到非常非常多的臺灣豬，剛才提到臺灣食用的豬肉國內的占了90%，因此從它的標示裡面看到的，不管哪一個產地的標示，我們消費者其實親臨的時候一眼就可以看得出來。"],["王委員育敏：對，所以我在問你的就是，明明有七千多公噸，到去年還有七千多公噸的豬肉跟內臟進來，但是市面上你沒有看到有任何一個小吃攤有標出來，難不成它就消失了嗎？它到底去了哪裡？我要求你們食藥署要掌握，就是你應該要掌握它的流向，你才知道它到底有沒有真實的標示。"],["姜署長至剛：跟委員做進一步的報告，進來之後就會流不出去。"],["王委員育敏：是啊。"],["姜署長至剛：流不出去之後，我們其實在邊境就有做所謂的BPI（Border Prediction Intelligent），用人工智慧去瞭解，所以我們都知道是在哪裡，如果有發生違規的，我們在人工智慧裡面會增加抽查、抽驗的比例。"],["王委員育敏：你所謂的違規是什麼？"],["姜署長至剛：就是沒有好好標示，這是中間的一項，可是任何的……"],["王委員育敏：你指的是美國豬肉一進口的時候標示它是美國豬吧，我現在問你的是它到下游之後的流向，照道理來講它源頭若是美國豬，我們現在的標示是即使到下游，你是小吃店，你是店家，你有使用到就應該標示成分說我有使用，你可能有使用臺灣豬加美國豬，你就應該要清楚地揭露，但在現在市面上完全看不到的情況底下，是不是就是有人有使用，但是沒有標示？這一點你們應該要去掌握，七千多公噸是很大的一個數量，但是市面上看不到也不合理。"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，因為我們查察的過程是一體適用所有的標示，向下之後去查，如果在沒有特別違規的狀況之下，在標示上面我們也是一體地對待任何一個廠家，所以我們現在看到的，的確是沒有特別違規的狀況，特別跟委員做進一步的報告。"],["王委員育敏：對，我覺得署長你們現在的查核還是有疏漏，你們沒有反向去查，有些店家你抽查它進口的肉商是從哪邊來，這個肉商再往上，如果對應到它其實就是從美國進口來的，為什麼在這個店家沒有標示出來？這個就是漏洞，這個跟洗產地大概是一樣的道理。2023年有查到，這個是大量的，它是冷凍食品，然後它這樣子出去，但是現在有更多，我懷疑它是進到了一般的傳統市場跟小吃店，它根本也沒有在標示，要不然你想一個基本的道理就知道，消基會說很奇怪，七千多公噸是一個很大的量，結果市面上沒有任何一個產品可以看到「美國豬」三個字，這個就是有問題嘛！我希望食藥署在這個把關上面還是應該要再運用一些方法，好不好？就是該稽核的時候。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員，我們一定會積極加強追蹤。"],["王委員育敏：對，你們該稽核、該查核還是要做。最後，部長，你今天對外說你還是會堅持四個原則，其中有兩個原則，一個是落實邊境跟市場稽查，我現在要講的就是，你市場稽查這一項其實不能放，在我們現行的規定裡面，我覺得就是要讓消費者非常清楚地知道，我們進口了美國的豬肉跟內臟，它到底到了哪裡。消費者可以選擇吃或選擇不吃，有的人不怕沒有關係；有的人就是要選擇真正的臺灣豬，他就是不要吃外國的，我覺得就是要保留給消費者選擇權，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：是的，我們一定透過部會及中央、地方的合作，落實邊境查驗跟市場的稽查。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望你這個市場稽查要徹底落實，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員，謝謝部長。","接續請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。我們在林淑芬委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","楊曜","王正旭","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","劉建國","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","高金素梅","王鴻薇","許宇甄","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","廖偉翔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判\n代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民\n權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00005"}}}