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Kacaw等18人擬具「住宅法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、審查委員林倩綺等23人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查委員陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n\n(僅詢答，第二十一案至第二十五案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。)\n\n【4月23日及24日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-04-24","start_time":"2025-04-24T09:51:39+08:00","end_time":"2025-04-24T10:05:40+08:00","duration":841,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-3-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"160616","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160616","tool":"pyannote","id":"160616-pyannote"},"job_id":"gUXmd2iAw7yCO6nw","queued_at":"2025-04-24 12:28:10","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2025-04-24 12:29:17","msg":"downloading 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834.4, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 834.4, \"end\": 834.42, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"輝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 834.42, \"end\": 834.44, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,660 --> 00:00:26,271\n謝謝主席有請部長部長早依據我們政府目的就是在2023年底就是完成我們的新辦的社會住宅還有包租貸款合計20萬戶的住宅\n\n2\n00:00:28,376 --> 00:00:36,438\n但根據2025年第一季的資料說達成就是10萬零剛才說多少10.6萬戶嘛最進度甚至是只有53%此外長期目標在2032年達成50萬戶依然就是平均一年就是1萬戶的速度顯然是幅大的這個\n\n3\n00:00:57,867 --> 00:01:02,908\n福大秉卻無法實現請問我們部長對於此明顯的落差政府是否有加速的機制還有說張這個墓地可以展現或者讓人民繼續失望呢現在我們政府都在造謠騙百姓沒護照其實有護照騙百姓有住宅其實還沒蓋就是這樣子的感覺我們可以回應一下嗎\n\n4\n00:01:27,626 --> 00:01:29,375\n有關住宅的故事我可不可以請出道\n\n5\n00:01:30,112 --> 00:01:57,612\n根委員報告其實我們自始的這個社宅的興建計畫在講的所謂的達成本來就是含這個發包的部分那現在全國現在全國中央的部分大概都已經陸陸續續在進行中的已經有超過了7萬戶以上的這樣的一個興建跟完工的一個數字現在持續還在增加當中那地方的部分到目前為止也有5萬戶的部分現在也在陸續所以\n\n6\n00:01:58,032 --> 00:02:06,645\n原本在講的時候所以我才會報告自始就講的是發包發包就算在裡面發包算在裡面還有在2023年\n\n7\n00:02:09,542 --> 00:02:19,767\n2032年的話是完工到2032年12萬戶是一定會完工是一定會完工所以10年後會完工就是包含在你說的數據裡面是一定要做完工就對了\n\n8\n00:02:29,952 --> 00:02:54,612\n不是所以我才跟委員報發包會有發包的數量也就是說我們原來在所提到的2032年是25萬戶的直接興建那這個部分都會持續在進行那目前來講在這個在118年到122年我們都陸陸續續就會把這一個部分12萬戶的部分一定都會完工這個部分是沒有問題\n\n9\n00:02:56,155 --> 00:03:19,429\n好所以說達成就是的目標還差一大截所以我們依據我們內政部的地政司最新的公布在2024年3Q全台房價所比例為10.9倍創歷史最新高的代表說我們家庭需要\n\n10\n00:03:20,149 --> 00:03:29,933\n不吃不喝11年才能买房所以我们全台的房价的负担率为40.28%六都普遍突破50%\n\n11\n00:03:36,089 --> 00:03:53,143\n已经远超过我们国际建议的安全值所以我们在政府除了租金补贴外是否从真正的从房价管控还有我们的市场的资讯要透明去着手\n\n12\n00:03:54,631 --> 00:04:23,312\n所以我们希望说大家就是要不要说就是针对我们租金的部分的话我们是否说有一个结构性的改革计划包含就是抑制投机炒房还有调控建商土地的垄断具体的做法还是说我们在政策行销上就是花把在\n\n13\n00:04:25,587 --> 00:04:27,740\n射箭請教一下\n\n14\n00:04:34,927 --> 00:04:58,675\n報告委員那個對於房價的部分其實行政院有訂定一個健全房市方案那這是由我們內政部、央行還有像財政部相關單位分別從市場面像我們平均地權條例就有兩次打草房的修法那也有一些建議值已經超過我們國際的建議值所以說我們這個就是希望\n\n15\n00:04:59,855 --> 00:05:19,145\n大家就是租得起买得起不是再来报告我们要有一个明确的政策真正的对我们人民有帮助因为目前我们看到的租宅就是标准的不一甚至说部分地区住宅\n\n16\n00:05:19,685 --> 00:05:22,047\n已經接近市場但是呢我們嚴重的背離就是社會住宅的原來應該具備的公益性還有可負擔性但是我們民眾提出的社會住宅修法草案我們民眾黨提出的建議弱勢成豬比例以原本至少\n\n17\n00:05:43,547 --> 00:05:46,368\n40%也提升為至少50%但是政府現在沒有再採用所以說我們的平台登記系統也是沒有看到啟用雖然是說住宅法在25條授權地方政府可以所得的集計調整社會租金\n\n18\n00:06:08,251 --> 00:06:10,376\n涉宅的租金但縣市定於標準差距真的是很大比如說台北一房\n\n19\n00:06:17,818 --> 00:06:39,660\n租金高达是一房而已9000块但是呢我们屏东不到5000就导致就是租金不一致所以说就是可负担性所以我们要强调的就是照顾弱势为针对就是统一租金计算机制与比例\n\n20\n00:06:41,622 --> 00:06:43,763\n才能達到我們人民的需求不要說中央跟地方資訊落差管理斷層又如何去補助我們上次我們要去就是在新北的時候有去就是去場看\n\n21\n00:06:58,409 --> 00:07:12,379\n我們董建宏市長在社會租宅的公聽會中也說有承諾社會租宅租金所得的分級會在年底前會公布請問有沒有具體的時間我們認為年底也是太久了希望說這個會期是不是可以提出\n\n22\n00:07:21,220 --> 00:07:35,658\n好跟委員報告啦有關於這一個所得分期制的這個部分其實跟地方政府已經陸陸續續大概開過八次的會議了那現在都已經有相關的共識那所以現在正是在草擬這整個的一個作業當中\n\n23\n00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,602\n所以什麼時候日期時間預計年底還是確定年底你們都預計討論再討論我說我們要預計年底還是確定年底要有一個明確的時間\n\n24\n00:07:55,450 --> 00:08:17,489\n就是預計年底之前都是預計每天都預計在研議工作就是這樣預計在研議應該是說明因為各縣市的差異仍然存在我上次有去新北市的場勘的時候每一棟社會住宅從北到南只有一個建商在管理\n\n25\n00:08:18,385 --> 00:08:22,947\n所以就慢半拍嘛所以呢每一間的進度就是沒有達到60到70%現場我們張宏祿委員還說如果是照我們建築的規定\n\n26\n00:08:36,175 --> 00:09:03,695\n早就要给他们罚款了但是你们还是一样没有在做管理所以呢我们实际上也没有达到这个目的我们一般我们不管是买房还是租房都会介绍说我们的房子的周边10到20分钟我们有什么措施这样子的比如市场啊学校啊公车站啊或者长照幼照啊公约区等等工作的地方\n\n27\n00:09:04,355 --> 00:09:24,448\n但是我看到你們的把整個是什麼社會住宅在中間把整個新北市所有的措施把它放在裡面所以我覺得好奇怪呢您這要要給人家就是這個社會住宅的周邊去調查你們不是把整個放在裡面這樣子\n\n28\n00:09:26,269 --> 00:09:31,831\n就糊弄我們而已所以呢還有說我們要問說你要涉這個但是我看到的是這樣子啊還有我們說我們要如何替調查我們社會租宅裡面我們要建的一些公共措施那你們說我們問周邊的鄰居周邊的鄰居住在裡面嗎沒有嘛\n\n29\n00:09:51,118 --> 00:10:09,165\n所以社宅也要跟周圍的鄰居要合目共處所以是要大家所以關鍵為什麼也要周邊區一起融入所以你們要去調查所有的大家的用調查不是只要問周邊周邊沒有住在裡面所以才會有全市全區的一個調查資料調查是問周邊不對啦\n\n30\n00:10:13,047 --> 00:10:15,749\n你聽我講完等一下要跟你回我們要問的大家我們要調查是地理環境的需求這邊已經有了市場了我們就不要建在裡面或者裡面我們附近又長照了我們的社會住宅就不要去建是這樣的周邊調查不是去問\n\n31\n00:10:34,801 --> 00:10:54,100\n周邊的人這個社會住宅符不符合他們的需求這樣子的建這個社會住宅是因為我們要變民不是平民不是把社會住宅的人框在裡面我們建這個社會住宅針對這裡面的人的需求但是又空間不夠\n\n32\n00:10:55,421 --> 00:11:22,676\n連我們活動中心有的有幼兒園有的是有長照有的也沒有完全沒有我去看的是這樣所以呢你們口口聲聲說不要分族群不要指的歧視但是你們的行為就是沒有去調查的需求你們就是要把平民貧富差距還有說沒有突破城鄉的差距所以也我們要\n\n33\n00:11:23,856 --> 00:11:35,901\n調查所有的十分鐘二十分鐘的地方有什麼我們這邊就不要見哪裡有什麼這樣子才是真正的辨明讓我們在這邊出的成績但是你給我看到的是這樣你講的跟我看的是完全不一樣所以我們希望說你們做\n\n34\n00:11:45,844 --> 00:12:05,252\n跟講的都不一樣根本這些不但都有而且會跟新北市政府跟地方政府都有去溝通所以也會跟地方政府都有詳細溝通調查的資料如果是真正的居住正義要把青年族群\n\n35\n00:12:06,152 --> 00:12:15,119\n老年族群還有弱勢族群新住民的族群平均分配在社會住宅還有說我們不要把社會住宅我們要突破這樣子的領土的差異所以委員這會跟你原來提案的內容就不一致了\n\n36\n00:12:22,304 --> 00:12:24,506\n提案是我們需要更精進但是我看到的我覺得我需要跟你們建議因為我們要脫貧我們不是在2030年還是說我們才建好所以你2030年就是表示說你們希望我們台灣更貧窮嗎\n\n37\n00:12:46,684 --> 00:12:49,646\n我們應該要怎麼樣去脫貧讓說我們建好的住宅如果是大家你覺得到那時候才可以住的話大家等也要死了等到那一邊也沒辦法住了所以說我希望說我們讓台灣的年輕人已經不是努力了不努力而可以被這個制度狠狠地去壓垮\n\n38\n00:13:12,677 --> 00:13:21,264\n政府真的想實現居住落差的正義所以請別再就是空放的口號欺騙人民而且拿出具體的行動還有強化執行提高透明化不能再讓年輕人一代就是在社會住宅的路上租不起又買不起\n\n39\n00:13:33,935 --> 00:13:54,440\n就是買五萬這樣子的政策居住正義不是口號希望大家就是我們要怎麼樣符合我們現在的人民的需求不是要去講空話二三十年十年後才有我們希望的是有真正的脫貧的方案謝謝好謝謝麥一貞委員下一位我們請蘇曉輝委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6660\t26271\t謝謝主席 有請部長部長早依據我們政府目的就是在2023年底就是完成我們的新辦的社會住宅還有包租貸款合計20萬戶的住宅\n28376\t36438\t但根據2025年第一季的資料說達成就是10萬零剛才說多少10.6萬戶嘛最進度甚至是只有53%此外長期目標在2032年達成50萬戶依然就是平均一年就是1萬戶的速度顯然是幅大的這個\n57867\t62908\t福大秉卻無法實現請問我們部長對於此明顯的落差政府是否有加速的機制還有說張這個墓地可以展現或者讓人民繼續失望呢現在我們政府都在造謠騙百姓沒護照其實有護照騙百姓有住宅其實還沒蓋就是這樣子的感覺我們可以回應一下嗎\n87626\t89375\t有關住宅的故事我可不可以請出道\n90112\t117612\t根委員報告其實我們自始的這個社宅的興建計畫在講的所謂的達成本來就是含這個發包的部分那現在全國現在全國中央的部分大概都已經陸陸續續在進行中的已經有超過了7萬戶以上的這樣的一個興建跟完工的一個數字現在持續還在增加當中那地方的部分到目前為止也有5萬戶的部分現在也在陸續所以\n118032\t126645\t原本在講的時候所以我才會報告自始就講的是發包發包就算在裡面發包算在裡面還有在2023年\n129542\t139767\t2032年的話是完工到2032年12萬戶是一定會完工是一定會完工所以10年後會完工就是包含在你說的數據裡面是一定要做完工就對了\n149952\t174612\t不是 所以我才跟委員報發包會有發包的數量也就是說我們原來在所提到的2032年是25萬戶的直接興建那這個部分都會持續在進行那目前來講在這個在118年到122年我們都陸陸續續就會把這一個部分12萬戶的部分一定都會完工這個部分是沒有問題\n176155\t199429\t好 所以說達成就是的目標還差一大截所以我們依據我們內政部的地政司最新的公布在2024年3Q全台房價所比例為10.9倍創歷史最新高的代表說我們家庭需要\n200149\t209933\t不吃不喝11年才能买房所以我们全台的房价的负担率为40.28%六都普遍突破50%\n216089\t233143\t已经远超过我们国际建议的安全值所以我们在政府除了租金补贴外是否从真正的从房价管控还有我们的市场的资讯要透明去着手\n234631\t263312\t所以我们希望说大家就是要不要说就是针对我们租金的部分的话我们是否说有一个结构性的改革计划包含就是抑制投机炒房还有调控建商土地的垄断具体的做法还是说我们在政策行销上就是花把在\n265587\t267740\t射箭請教一下\n274927\t298675\t報告委員那個對於房價的部分其實行政院有訂定一個健全房市方案那這是由我們內政部、央行還有像財政部相關單位分別從市場面像我們平均地權條例就有兩次打草房的修法那也有一些建議值已經超過我們國際的建議值所以說我們這個就是希望\n299855\t319145\t大家就是租得起买得起不是再来报告我们要有一个明确的政策真正的对我们人民有帮助因为目前我们看到的租宅就是标准的不一甚至说部分地区住宅\n319685\t322047\t已經接近市場但是呢我們嚴重的背離就是社會住宅的原來應該具備的公益性還有可負擔性但是我們民眾提出的社會住宅修法草案我們民眾黨提出的建議弱勢成豬比例以原本至少\n343547\t346368\t40%也提升為至少50%但是政府現在沒有再採用所以說我們的平台登記系統也是沒有看到啟用雖然是說住宅法在25條授權地方政府可以所得的集計調整社會租金\n368251\t370376\t涉宅的租金 但縣市定於標準差距真的是很大比如說台北一房\n377818\t399660\t租金高达是一房而已9000块但是呢我们屏东不到5000就导致就是租金不一致所以说就是可负担性所以我们要强调的就是照顾弱势为针对就是统一租金计算机制与比例\n401622\t403763\t才能達到我們人民的需求不要說中央跟地方資訊落差管理斷層又如何去補助我們上次我們要去就是在新北的時候有去就是去場看\n418409\t432379\t我們董建宏市長在社會租宅的公聽會中也說有承諾社會租宅租金所得的分級會在年底前會公布 請問有沒有具體的時間我們認為年底也是太久了 希望說這個會期是不是可以提出\n441220\t455658\t好 跟委員報告啦有關於這一個所得分期制的這個部分其實跟地方政府已經陸陸續續大概開過八次的會議了那現在都已經有相關的共識那所以現在正是在草擬這整個的一個作業當中\n457040\t460602\t所以什麼時候 日期 時間預計年底還是確定年底你們都預計 討論 再討論 我說我們要預計年底還是確定年底 要有一個明確的時間\n475450\t497489\t就是預計年底之前都是預計 每天都預計在研議工作就是這樣 預計在研議應該是說明 因為各縣市的差異仍然存在我上次有去新北市的場勘的時候每一棟社會住宅 從北到南 只有一個建商在管理\n498385\t502947\t所以就慢半拍嘛所以呢每一間的進度就是沒有達到60到70%現場我們張宏祿委員還說如果是照我們建築的規定\n516175\t543695\t早就要给他们罚款了但是你们还是一样没有在做管理所以呢我们实际上也没有达到这个目的我们一般我们不管是买房还是租房都会介绍说我们的房子的周边10到20分钟我们有什么措施这样子的比如市场啊学校啊公车站啊或者长照幼照啊公约区等等工作的地方\n544355\t564448\t但是我看到你們的把整個是什麼社會住宅在中間把整個新北市所有的措施把它放在裡面所以我覺得好奇怪呢您這要要給人家就是這個社會住宅的周邊去調查你們不是把整個放在裡面這樣子\n566269\t571831\t就糊弄我們而已所以呢還有說我們要問說你要涉這個但是我看到的是這樣子啊還有我們說我們要如何替調查我們社會租宅裡面我們要建的一些公共措施那你們說我們問周邊的鄰居周邊的鄰居住在裡面嗎沒有嘛\n591118\t609165\t所以社宅也要跟周圍的鄰居要合目共處所以是要大家所以關鍵為什麼也要周邊區一起融入所以你們要去調查所有的大家的用調查不是只要問周邊周邊沒有住在裡面所以才會有全市全區的一個調查資料調查是問周邊不對啦\n613047\t615749\t你聽我講完等一下要跟你回我們要問的大家我們要調查是地理環境的需求這邊已經有了市場了我們就不要建在裡面或者裡面我們附近又長照了我們的社會住宅就不要去建是這樣的周邊調查不是去問\n634801\t654100\t周邊的人這個社會住宅符不符合他們的需求這樣子的建這個社會住宅是因為我們要變民不是平民不是把社會住宅的人框在裡面我們建這個社會住宅針對這裡面的人的需求但是又空間不夠\n655421\t682676\t連我們活動中心有的有幼兒園有的是有長照有的也沒有完全沒有我去看的是這樣所以呢你們口口聲聲說不要分族群不要指的歧視但是你們的行為就是沒有去調查的需求你們就是要把平民貧富差距還有說沒有突破城鄉的差距所以也我們要\n683856\t695901\t調查所有的十分鐘二十分鐘的地方有什麼我們這邊就不要見哪裡有什麼這樣子才是真正的辨明讓我們在這邊出的成績但是你給我看到的是這樣你講的跟我看的是完全不一樣所以我們希望說你們做\n705844\t725252\t跟講的都不一樣根本這些不但都有而且會跟新北市政府跟地方政府都有去溝通所以也會跟地方政府都有詳細溝通調查的資料如果是真正的居住正義要把青年族群\n726152\t735119\t老年族群 還有弱勢族群 新住民的族群平均分配在社會住宅還有說我們不要把社會住宅我們要突破這樣子的領土的差異所以委員這會跟你原來提案的內容就不一致了\n742304\t744506\t提案是我們需要更精進但是我看到的我覺得我需要跟你們建議因為我們要脫貧我們不是在2030年還是說我們才建好所以你2030年就是表示說你們希望我們台灣更貧窮嗎\n766684\t769646\t我們應該要怎麼樣去脫貧 讓說我們建好的住宅如果是大家你覺得到那時候才可以住的話大家等也要死了 等到那一邊也沒辦法住了所以說我希望說我們讓台灣的年輕人已經不是努力了不努力而可以被這個制度狠狠地去壓垮\n792677\t801264\t政府真的想實現居住落差的正義所以請別再就是空放的口號欺騙人民而且拿出具體的行動還有強化執行提高透明化不能再讓年輕人一代就是在社會住宅的路上租不起又買不起\n813935\t834440\t就是買五萬這樣子的政策居住正義不是口號希望大家就是我們要怎麼樣符合我們現在的人民的需求不是要去講空話二三十年 十年後才有我們希望的是有真正的脫貧的方案謝謝好 謝謝麥一貞委員 下一位我們請蘇曉輝委員質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長部長早依據我們政府目的就是在2023年底就是完成我們的新辦的社會住宅還有包租貸款合計20萬戶的住宅\n但根據2025年第一季的資料說達成就是10萬零剛才說多少10.6萬戶嘛最進度甚至是只有53%此外長期目標在2032年達成50萬戶依然就是平均一年就是1萬戶的速度顯然是幅大的這個\n福大秉卻無法實現請問我們部長對於此明顯的落差政府是否有加速的機制還有說張這個墓地可以展現或者讓人民繼續失望呢現在我們政府都在造謠騙百姓沒護照其實有護照騙百姓有住宅其實還沒蓋就是這樣子的感覺我們可以回應一下嗎\n有關住宅的故事我可不可以請出道\n根委員報告其實我們自始的這個社宅的興建計畫在講的所謂的達成本來就是含這個發包的部分那現在全國現在全國中央的部分大概都已經陸陸續續在進行中的已經有超過了7萬戶以上的這樣的一個興建跟完工的一個數字現在持續還在增加當中那地方的部分到目前為止也有5萬戶的部分現在也在陸續所以\n原本在講的時候所以我才會報告自始就講的是發包發包就算在裡面發包算在裡面還有在2023年\n2032年的話是完工到2032年12萬戶是一定會完工是一定會完工所以10年後會完工就是包含在你說的數據裡面是一定要做完工就對了\n不是 所以我才跟委員報發包會有發包的數量也就是說我們原來在所提到的2032年是25萬戶的直接興建那這個部分都會持續在進行那目前來講在這個在118年到122年我們都陸陸續續就會把這一個部分12萬戶的部分一定都會完工這個部分是沒有問題\n好 所以說達成就是的目標還差一大截所以我們依據我們內政部的地政司最新的公布在2024年3Q全台房價所比例為10.9倍創歷史最新高的代表說我們家庭需要\n不吃不喝11年才能买房所以我们全台的房价的负担率为40.28%六都普遍突破50%\n已经远超过我们国际建议的安全值所以我们在政府除了租金补贴外是否从真正的从房价管控还有我们的市场的资讯要透明去着手\n所以我们希望说大家就是要不要说就是针对我们租金的部分的话我们是否说有一个结构性的改革计划包含就是抑制投机炒房还有调控建商土地的垄断具体的做法还是说我们在政策行销上就是花把在\n射箭請教一下\n報告委員那個對於房價的部分其實行政院有訂定一個健全房市方案那這是由我們內政部、央行還有像財政部相關單位分別從市場面像我們平均地權條例就有兩次打草房的修法那也有一些建議值已經超過我們國際的建議值所以說我們這個就是希望\n大家就是租得起买得起不是再来报告我们要有一个明确的政策真正的对我们人民有帮助因为目前我们看到的租宅就是标准的不一甚至说部分地区住宅\n已經接近市場但是呢我們嚴重的背離就是社會住宅的原來應該具備的公益性還有可負擔性但是我們民眾提出的社會住宅修法草案我們民眾黨提出的建議弱勢成豬比例以原本至少\n40%也提升為至少50%但是政府現在沒有再採用所以說我們的平台登記系統也是沒有看到啟用雖然是說住宅法在25條授權地方政府可以所得的集計調整社會租金\n涉宅的租金 但縣市定於標準差距真的是很大比如說台北一房\n租金高达是一房而已9000块但是呢我们屏东不到5000就导致就是租金不一致所以说就是可负担性所以我们要强调的就是照顾弱势为针对就是统一租金计算机制与比例\n才能達到我們人民的需求不要說中央跟地方資訊落差管理斷層又如何去補助我們上次我們要去就是在新北的時候有去就是去場看\n我們董建宏市長在社會租宅的公聽會中也說有承諾社會租宅租金所得的分級會在年底前會公布 請問有沒有具體的時間我們認為年底也是太久了 希望說這個會期是不是可以提出\n好 跟委員報告啦有關於這一個所得分期制的這個部分其實跟地方政府已經陸陸續續大概開過八次的會議了那現在都已經有相關的共識那所以現在正是在草擬這整個的一個作業當中\n所以什麼時候 日期 時間預計年底還是確定年底你們都預計 討論 再討論 我說我們要預計年底還是確定年底 要有一個明確的時間\n就是預計年底之前都是預計 每天都預計在研議工作就是這樣 預計在研議應該是說明 因為各縣市的差異仍然存在我上次有去新北市的場勘的時候每一棟社會住宅 從北到南 只有一個建商在管理\n所以就慢半拍嘛所以呢每一間的進度就是沒有達到60到70%現場我們張宏祿委員還說如果是照我們建築的規定\n早就要给他们罚款了但是你们还是一样没有在做管理所以呢我们实际上也没有达到这个目的我们一般我们不管是买房还是租房都会介绍说我们的房子的周边10到20分钟我们有什么措施这样子的比如市场啊学校啊公车站啊或者长照幼照啊公约区等等工作的地方\n但是我看到你們的把整個是什麼社會住宅在中間把整個新北市所有的措施把它放在裡面所以我覺得好奇怪呢您這要要給人家就是這個社會住宅的周邊去調查你們不是把整個放在裡面這樣子\n就糊弄我們而已所以呢還有說我們要問說你要涉這個但是我看到的是這樣子啊還有我們說我們要如何替調查我們社會租宅裡面我們要建的一些公共措施那你們說我們問周邊的鄰居周邊的鄰居住在裡面嗎沒有嘛\n所以社宅也要跟周圍的鄰居要合目共處所以是要大家所以關鍵為什麼也要周邊區一起融入所以你們要去調查所有的大家的用調查不是只要問周邊周邊沒有住在裡面所以才會有全市全區的一個調查資料調查是問周邊不對啦\n你聽我講完等一下要跟你回我們要問的大家我們要調查是地理環境的需求這邊已經有了市場了我們就不要建在裡面或者裡面我們附近又長照了我們的社會住宅就不要去建是這樣的周邊調查不是去問\n周邊的人這個社會住宅符不符合他們的需求這樣子的建這個社會住宅是因為我們要變民不是平民不是把社會住宅的人框在裡面我們建這個社會住宅針對這裡面的人的需求但是又空間不夠\n連我們活動中心有的有幼兒園有的是有長照有的也沒有完全沒有我去看的是這樣所以呢你們口口聲聲說不要分族群不要指的歧視但是你們的行為就是沒有去調查的需求你們就是要把平民貧富差距還有說沒有突破城鄉的差距所以也我們要\n調查所有的十分鐘二十分鐘的地方有什麼我們這邊就不要見哪裡有什麼這樣子才是真正的辨明讓我們在這邊出的成績但是你給我看到的是這樣你講的跟我看的是完全不一樣所以我們希望說你們做\n跟講的都不一樣根本這些不但都有而且會跟新北市政府跟地方政府都有去溝通所以也會跟地方政府都有詳細溝通調查的資料如果是真正的居住正義要把青年族群\n老年族群 還有弱勢族群 新住民的族群平均分配在社會住宅還有說我們不要把社會住宅我們要突破這樣子的領土的差異所以委員這會跟你原來提案的內容就不一致了\n提案是我們需要更精進但是我看到的我覺得我需要跟你們建議因為我們要脫貧我們不是在2030年還是說我們才建好所以你2030年就是表示說你們希望我們台灣更貧窮嗎\n我們應該要怎麼樣去脫貧 讓說我們建好的住宅如果是大家你覺得到那時候才可以住的話大家等也要死了 等到那一邊也沒辦法住了所以說我希望說我們讓台灣的年輕人已經不是努力了不努力而可以被這個制度狠狠地去壓垮\n政府真的想實現居住落差的正義所以請別再就是空放的口號欺騙人民而且拿出具體的行動還有強化執行提高透明化不能再讓年輕人一代就是在社會住宅的路上租不起又買不起\n就是買五萬這樣子的政策居住正義不是口號希望大家就是我們要怎麼樣符合我們現在的人民的需求不是要去講空話二三十年 十年後才有我們希望的是有真正的脫貧的方案謝謝好 謝謝麥一貞委員 下一位我們請蘇曉輝委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.660 --> 00:26.271\n謝謝主席有請部長部長早依據我們政府目的就是在2023年底就是完成我們的新辦的社會住宅還有包租貸款合計20萬戶的住宅\n\n00:28.376 --> 00:36.438\n但根據2025年第一季的資料說達成就是10萬零剛才說多少10.6萬戶嘛最進度甚至是只有53%此外長期目標在2032年達成50萬戶依然就是平均一年就是1萬戶的速度顯然是幅大的這個\n\n00:57.867 --> 01:02.908\n福大秉卻無法實現請問我們部長對於此明顯的落差政府是否有加速的機制還有說張這個墓地可以展現或者讓人民繼續失望呢現在我們政府都在造謠騙百姓沒護照其實有護照騙百姓有住宅其實還沒蓋就是這樣子的感覺我們可以回應一下嗎\n\n01:27.626 --> 01:29.375\n有關住宅的故事我可不可以請出道\n\n01:30.112 --> 01:57.612\n根委員報告其實我們自始的這個社宅的興建計畫在講的所謂的達成本來就是含這個發包的部分那現在全國現在全國中央的部分大概都已經陸陸續續在進行中的已經有超過了7萬戶以上的這樣的一個興建跟完工的一個數字現在持續還在增加當中那地方的部分到目前為止也有5萬戶的部分現在也在陸續所以\n\n01:58.032 --> 02:06.645\n原本在講的時候所以我才會報告自始就講的是發包發包就算在裡面發包算在裡面還有在2023年\n\n02:09.542 --> 02:19.767\n2032年的話是完工到2032年12萬戶是一定會完工是一定會完工所以10年後會完工就是包含在你說的數據裡面是一定要做完工就對了\n\n02:29.952 --> 02:54.612\n不是所以我才跟委員報發包會有發包的數量也就是說我們原來在所提到的2032年是25萬戶的直接興建那這個部分都會持續在進行那目前來講在這個在118年到122年我們都陸陸續續就會把這一個部分12萬戶的部分一定都會完工這個部分是沒有問題\n\n02:56.155 --> 03:19.429\n好所以說達成就是的目標還差一大截所以我們依據我們內政部的地政司最新的公布在2024年3Q全台房價所比例為10.9倍創歷史最新高的代表說我們家庭需要\n\n03:20.149 --> 03:29.933\n不吃不喝11年才能买房所以我们全台的房价的负担率为40.28%六都普遍突破50%\n\n03:36.089 --> 03:53.143\n已经远超过我们国际建议的安全值所以我们在政府除了租金补贴外是否从真正的从房价管控还有我们的市场的资讯要透明去着手\n\n03:54.631 --> 04:23.312\n所以我们希望说大家就是要不要说就是针对我们租金的部分的话我们是否说有一个结构性的改革计划包含就是抑制投机炒房还有调控建商土地的垄断具体的做法还是说我们在政策行销上就是花把在\n\n04:25.587 --> 04:27.740\n射箭請教一下\n\n04:34.927 --> 04:58.675\n報告委員那個對於房價的部分其實行政院有訂定一個健全房市方案那這是由我們內政部、央行還有像財政部相關單位分別從市場面像我們平均地權條例就有兩次打草房的修法那也有一些建議值已經超過我們國際的建議值所以說我們這個就是希望\n\n04:59.855 --> 05:19.145\n大家就是租得起买得起不是再来报告我们要有一个明确的政策真正的对我们人民有帮助因为目前我们看到的租宅就是标准的不一甚至说部分地区住宅\n\n05:19.685 --> 05:22.047\n已經接近市場但是呢我們嚴重的背離就是社會住宅的原來應該具備的公益性還有可負擔性但是我們民眾提出的社會住宅修法草案我們民眾黨提出的建議弱勢成豬比例以原本至少\n\n05:43.547 --> 05:46.368\n40%也提升為至少50%但是政府現在沒有再採用所以說我們的平台登記系統也是沒有看到啟用雖然是說住宅法在25條授權地方政府可以所得的集計調整社會租金\n\n06:08.251 --> 06:10.376\n涉宅的租金但縣市定於標準差距真的是很大比如說台北一房\n\n06:17.818 --> 06:39.660\n租金高达是一房而已9000块但是呢我们屏东不到5000就导致就是租金不一致所以说就是可负担性所以我们要强调的就是照顾弱势为针对就是统一租金计算机制与比例\n\n06:41.622 --> 06:43.763\n才能達到我們人民的需求不要說中央跟地方資訊落差管理斷層又如何去補助我們上次我們要去就是在新北的時候有去就是去場看\n\n06:58.409 --> 07:12.379\n我們董建宏市長在社會租宅的公聽會中也說有承諾社會租宅租金所得的分級會在年底前會公布請問有沒有具體的時間我們認為年底也是太久了希望說這個會期是不是可以提出\n\n07:21.220 --> 07:35.658\n好跟委員報告啦有關於這一個所得分期制的這個部分其實跟地方政府已經陸陸續續大概開過八次的會議了那現在都已經有相關的共識那所以現在正是在草擬這整個的一個作業當中\n\n07:37.040 --> 07:40.602\n所以什麼時候日期時間預計年底還是確定年底你們都預計討論再討論我說我們要預計年底還是確定年底要有一個明確的時間\n\n07:55.450 --> 08:17.489\n就是預計年底之前都是預計每天都預計在研議工作就是這樣預計在研議應該是說明因為各縣市的差異仍然存在我上次有去新北市的場勘的時候每一棟社會住宅從北到南只有一個建商在管理\n\n08:18.385 --> 08:22.947\n所以就慢半拍嘛所以呢每一間的進度就是沒有達到60到70%現場我們張宏祿委員還說如果是照我們建築的規定\n\n08:36.175 --> 09:03.695\n早就要给他们罚款了但是你们还是一样没有在做管理所以呢我们实际上也没有达到这个目的我们一般我们不管是买房还是租房都会介绍说我们的房子的周边10到20分钟我们有什么措施这样子的比如市场啊学校啊公车站啊或者长照幼照啊公约区等等工作的地方\n\n09:04.355 --> 09:24.448\n但是我看到你們的把整個是什麼社會住宅在中間把整個新北市所有的措施把它放在裡面所以我覺得好奇怪呢您這要要給人家就是這個社會住宅的周邊去調查你們不是把整個放在裡面這樣子\n\n09:26.269 --> 09:31.831\n就糊弄我們而已所以呢還有說我們要問說你要涉這個但是我看到的是這樣子啊還有我們說我們要如何替調查我們社會租宅裡面我們要建的一些公共措施那你們說我們問周邊的鄰居周邊的鄰居住在裡面嗎沒有嘛\n\n09:51.118 --> 10:09.165\n所以社宅也要跟周圍的鄰居要合目共處所以是要大家所以關鍵為什麼也要周邊區一起融入所以你們要去調查所有的大家的用調查不是只要問周邊周邊沒有住在裡面所以才會有全市全區的一個調查資料調查是問周邊不對啦\n\n10:13.047 --> 10:15.749\n你聽我講完等一下要跟你回我們要問的大家我們要調查是地理環境的需求這邊已經有了市場了我們就不要建在裡面或者裡面我們附近又長照了我們的社會住宅就不要去建是這樣的周邊調查不是去問\n\n10:34.801 --> 10:54.100\n周邊的人這個社會住宅符不符合他們的需求這樣子的建這個社會住宅是因為我們要變民不是平民不是把社會住宅的人框在裡面我們建這個社會住宅針對這裡面的人的需求但是又空間不夠\n\n10:55.421 --> 11:22.676\n連我們活動中心有的有幼兒園有的是有長照有的也沒有完全沒有我去看的是這樣所以呢你們口口聲聲說不要分族群不要指的歧視但是你們的行為就是沒有去調查的需求你們就是要把平民貧富差距還有說沒有突破城鄉的差距所以也我們要\n\n11:23.856 --> 11:35.901\n調查所有的十分鐘二十分鐘的地方有什麼我們這邊就不要見哪裡有什麼這樣子才是真正的辨明讓我們在這邊出的成績但是你給我看到的是這樣你講的跟我看的是完全不一樣所以我們希望說你們做\n\n11:45.844 --> 12:05.252\n跟講的都不一樣根本這些不但都有而且會跟新北市政府跟地方政府都有去溝通所以也會跟地方政府都有詳細溝通調查的資料如果是真正的居住正義要把青年族群\n\n12:06.152 --> 12:15.119\n老年族群還有弱勢族群新住民的族群平均分配在社會住宅還有說我們不要把社會住宅我們要突破這樣子的領土的差異所以委員這會跟你原來提案的內容就不一致了\n\n12:22.304 --> 12:24.506\n提案是我們需要更精進但是我看到的我覺得我需要跟你們建議因為我們要脫貧我們不是在2030年還是說我們才建好所以你2030年就是表示說你們希望我們台灣更貧窮嗎\n\n12:46.684 --> 12:49.646\n我們應該要怎麼樣去脫貧讓說我們建好的住宅如果是大家你覺得到那時候才可以住的話大家等也要死了等到那一邊也沒辦法住了所以說我希望說我們讓台灣的年輕人已經不是努力了不努力而可以被這個制度狠狠地去壓垮\n\n13:12.677 --> 13:21.264\n政府真的想實現居住落差的正義所以請別再就是空放的口號欺騙人民而且拿出具體的行動還有強化執行提高透明化不能再讓年輕人一代就是在社會住宅的路上租不起又買不起\n\n13:33.935 --> 13:54.440\n就是買五萬這樣子的政策居住正義不是口號希望大家就是我們要怎麼樣符合我們現在的人民的需求不是要去講空話二三十年十年後才有我們希望的是有真正的脫貧的方案謝謝好謝謝麥一貞委員下一位我們請蘇曉輝委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.66,"end":26.271,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長部長早依據我們政府目的就是在2023年底就是完成我們的新辦的社會住宅還有包租貸款合計20萬戶的住宅"},{"start":28.376,"end":36.438,"text":"但根據2025年第一季的資料說達成就是10萬零剛才說多少10.6萬戶嘛最進度甚至是只有53%此外長期目標在2032年達成50萬戶依然就是平均一年就是1萬戶的速度顯然是幅大的這個"},{"start":57.867,"end":62.908,"text":"福大秉卻無法實現請問我們部長對於此明顯的落差政府是否有加速的機制還有說張這個墓地可以展現或者讓人民繼續失望呢現在我們政府都在造謠騙百姓沒護照其實有護照騙百姓有住宅其實還沒蓋就是這樣子的感覺我們可以回應一下嗎"},{"start":87.626,"end":89.375,"text":"有關住宅的故事我可不可以請出道"},{"start":90.112,"end":117.612,"text":"根委員報告其實我們自始的這個社宅的興建計畫在講的所謂的達成本來就是含這個發包的部分那現在全國現在全國中央的部分大概都已經陸陸續續在進行中的已經有超過了7萬戶以上的這樣的一個興建跟完工的一個數字現在持續還在增加當中那地方的部分到目前為止也有5萬戶的部分現在也在陸續所以"},{"start":118.032,"end":126.645,"text":"原本在講的時候所以我才會報告自始就講的是發包發包就算在裡面發包算在裡面還有在2023年"},{"start":129.542,"end":139.767,"text":"2032年的話是完工到2032年12萬戶是一定會完工是一定會完工所以10年後會完工就是包含在你說的數據裡面是一定要做完工就對了"},{"start":149.952,"end":174.612,"text":"不是 所以我才跟委員報發包會有發包的數量也就是說我們原來在所提到的2032年是25萬戶的直接興建那這個部分都會持續在進行那目前來講在這個在118年到122年我們都陸陸續續就會把這一個部分12萬戶的部分一定都會完工這個部分是沒有問題"},{"start":176.155,"end":199.429,"text":"好 所以說達成就是的目標還差一大截所以我們依據我們內政部的地政司最新的公布在2024年3Q全台房價所比例為10.9倍創歷史最新高的代表說我們家庭需要"},{"start":200.149,"end":209.933,"text":"不吃不喝11年才能买房所以我们全台的房价的负担率为40.28%六都普遍突破50%"},{"start":216.089,"end":233.143,"text":"已经远超过我们国际建议的安全值所以我们在政府除了租金补贴外是否从真正的从房价管控还有我们的市场的资讯要透明去着手"},{"start":234.631,"end":263.312,"text":"所以我们希望说大家就是要不要说就是针对我们租金的部分的话我们是否说有一个结构性的改革计划包含就是抑制投机炒房还有调控建商土地的垄断具体的做法还是说我们在政策行销上就是花把在"},{"start":265.587,"end":267.74,"text":"射箭請教一下"},{"start":274.927,"end":298.675,"text":"報告委員那個對於房價的部分其實行政院有訂定一個健全房市方案那這是由我們內政部、央行還有像財政部相關單位分別從市場面像我們平均地權條例就有兩次打草房的修法那也有一些建議值已經超過我們國際的建議值所以說我們這個就是希望"},{"start":299.855,"end":319.145,"text":"大家就是租得起买得起不是再来报告我们要有一个明确的政策真正的对我们人民有帮助因为目前我们看到的租宅就是标准的不一甚至说部分地区住宅"},{"start":319.685,"end":322.047,"text":"已經接近市場但是呢我們嚴重的背離就是社會住宅的原來應該具備的公益性還有可負擔性但是我們民眾提出的社會住宅修法草案我們民眾黨提出的建議弱勢成豬比例以原本至少"},{"start":343.547,"end":346.368,"text":"40%也提升為至少50%但是政府現在沒有再採用所以說我們的平台登記系統也是沒有看到啟用雖然是說住宅法在25條授權地方政府可以所得的集計調整社會租金"},{"start":368.251,"end":370.376,"text":"涉宅的租金 但縣市定於標準差距真的是很大比如說台北一房"},{"start":377.818,"end":399.66,"text":"租金高达是一房而已9000块但是呢我们屏东不到5000就导致就是租金不一致所以说就是可负担性所以我们要强调的就是照顾弱势为针对就是统一租金计算机制与比例"},{"start":401.622,"end":403.763,"text":"才能達到我們人民的需求不要說中央跟地方資訊落差管理斷層又如何去補助我們上次我們要去就是在新北的時候有去就是去場看"},{"start":418.409,"end":432.379,"text":"我們董建宏市長在社會租宅的公聽會中也說有承諾社會租宅租金所得的分級會在年底前會公布 請問有沒有具體的時間我們認為年底也是太久了 希望說這個會期是不是可以提出"},{"start":441.22,"end":455.658,"text":"好 跟委員報告啦有關於這一個所得分期制的這個部分其實跟地方政府已經陸陸續續大概開過八次的會議了那現在都已經有相關的共識那所以現在正是在草擬這整個的一個作業當中"},{"start":457.04,"end":460.602,"text":"所以什麼時候 日期 時間預計年底還是確定年底你們都預計 討論 再討論 我說我們要預計年底還是確定年底 要有一個明確的時間"},{"start":475.45,"end":497.489,"text":"就是預計年底之前都是預計 每天都預計在研議工作就是這樣 預計在研議應該是說明 因為各縣市的差異仍然存在我上次有去新北市的場勘的時候每一棟社會住宅 從北到南 只有一個建商在管理"},{"start":498.385,"end":502.947,"text":"所以就慢半拍嘛所以呢每一間的進度就是沒有達到60到70%現場我們張宏祿委員還說如果是照我們建築的規定"},{"start":516.175,"end":543.695,"text":"早就要给他们罚款了但是你们还是一样没有在做管理所以呢我们实际上也没有达到这个目的我们一般我们不管是买房还是租房都会介绍说我们的房子的周边10到20分钟我们有什么措施这样子的比如市场啊学校啊公车站啊或者长照幼照啊公约区等等工作的地方"},{"start":544.355,"end":564.448,"text":"但是我看到你們的把整個是什麼社會住宅在中間把整個新北市所有的措施把它放在裡面所以我覺得好奇怪呢您這要要給人家就是這個社會住宅的周邊去調查你們不是把整個放在裡面這樣子"},{"start":566.269,"end":571.831,"text":"就糊弄我們而已所以呢還有說我們要問說你要涉這個但是我看到的是這樣子啊還有我們說我們要如何替調查我們社會租宅裡面我們要建的一些公共措施那你們說我們問周邊的鄰居周邊的鄰居住在裡面嗎沒有嘛"},{"start":591.118,"end":609.165,"text":"所以社宅也要跟周圍的鄰居要合目共處所以是要大家所以關鍵為什麼也要周邊區一起融入所以你們要去調查所有的大家的用調查不是只要問周邊周邊沒有住在裡面所以才會有全市全區的一個調查資料調查是問周邊不對啦"},{"start":613.047,"end":615.749,"text":"你聽我講完等一下要跟你回我們要問的大家我們要調查是地理環境的需求這邊已經有了市場了我們就不要建在裡面或者裡面我們附近又長照了我們的社會住宅就不要去建是這樣的周邊調查不是去問"},{"start":634.801,"end":654.1,"text":"周邊的人這個社會住宅符不符合他們的需求這樣子的建這個社會住宅是因為我們要變民不是平民不是把社會住宅的人框在裡面我們建這個社會住宅針對這裡面的人的需求但是又空間不夠"},{"start":655.421,"end":682.676,"text":"連我們活動中心有的有幼兒園有的是有長照有的也沒有完全沒有我去看的是這樣所以呢你們口口聲聲說不要分族群不要指的歧視但是你們的行為就是沒有去調查的需求你們就是要把平民貧富差距還有說沒有突破城鄉的差距所以也我們要"},{"start":683.856,"end":695.901,"text":"調查所有的十分鐘二十分鐘的地方有什麼我們這邊就不要見哪裡有什麼這樣子才是真正的辨明讓我們在這邊出的成績但是你給我看到的是這樣你講的跟我看的是完全不一樣所以我們希望說你們做"},{"start":705.844,"end":725.252,"text":"跟講的都不一樣根本這些不但都有而且會跟新北市政府跟地方政府都有去溝通所以也會跟地方政府都有詳細溝通調查的資料如果是真正的居住正義要把青年族群"},{"start":726.152,"end":735.119,"text":"老年族群 還有弱勢族群 新住民的族群平均分配在社會住宅還有說我們不要把社會住宅我們要突破這樣子的領土的差異所以委員這會跟你原來提案的內容就不一致了"},{"start":742.304,"end":744.506,"text":"提案是我們需要更精進但是我看到的我覺得我需要跟你們建議因為我們要脫貧我們不是在2030年還是說我們才建好所以你2030年就是表示說你們希望我們台灣更貧窮嗎"},{"start":766.684,"end":769.646,"text":"我們應該要怎麼樣去脫貧 讓說我們建好的住宅如果是大家你覺得到那時候才可以住的話大家等也要死了 等到那一邊也沒辦法住了所以說我希望說我們讓台灣的年輕人已經不是努力了不努力而可以被這個制度狠狠地去壓垮"},{"start":792.677,"end":801.264,"text":"政府真的想實現居住落差的正義所以請別再就是空放的口號欺騙人民而且拿出具體的行動還有強化執行提高透明化不能再讓年輕人一代就是在社會住宅的路上租不起又買不起"},{"start":813.935,"end":834.44,"text":"就是買五萬這樣子的政策居住正義不是口號希望大家就是我們要怎麼樣符合我們現在的人民的需求不是要去講空話二三十年 十年後才有我們希望的是有真正的脫貧的方案謝謝好 謝謝麥一貞委員 下一位我們請蘇曉輝委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（9時51分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長有請。"],["劉部長世芳：委員早。"],["麥委員玉珍：部長早。根據政府目標，在2023年底要達成興辦社會住宅和包租代管合計20萬戶的住宅，但根據2025年第一季資料，僅達成10.6萬戶，進度只有53%。此外，長期目標是要在2032年達成50萬戶，依照目前平均1年增加1萬戶的速度，顯然只會畫大餅，卻無法實現。請問部長，對於如此明顯的落差，政府是否有加速的機制？還是將這個目標展延，讓人民繼續失望呢？現在我們政府都在造謠，騙百姓沒護照，其實有護照；騙百姓有社宅，其實還沒蓋；就是這樣子的感覺！部長可以回應一下嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：有關住宅的戶數，我可不可以請署長說明？"],["麥委員玉珍：好。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實我們自始的社宅興建計畫在講的達成，本來就是含發包的部分。現在全國中央的部分陸陸續續進行中的已經超過7萬戶以上興建跟完工的數字，現在持續還在增加當中。地方的部分，到目前為止也有5萬戶現在也在陸續……所以原本在講的……"],["麥委員玉珍：已經入住，還是完成？還是在興建中？"],["吳署長欣修：所以我才會報告，自始講的就是發包。"],["麥委員玉珍：發包就算在裡面？"],["吳署長欣修：是，自始，就是一開始……"],["麥委員玉珍：發包算在裡面，還有在2023年？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：是這樣子嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：從一開始就是這樣。"],["麥委員玉珍：2032年，不是2023年。"],["吳署長欣修：2032年的話是完工。"],["麥委員玉珍：發包中也含在裡面？"],["吳署長欣修：是。到2032年12萬戶是一定會完工。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以10年後會完工，就是包含在你說的數據裡面？"],["吳署長欣修：是，一定都會……"],["麥委員玉珍：這樣叫做完工就對了？"],["吳署長欣修：不是，所以我才跟委員報告，發包會有發包的數量；也就是說，我們原來在提到的2032年是25萬戶直接興建，這個部分都會持續進行。目前來講，118年到122年，我們陸陸續續就會把12萬戶的部分一定都完工，這個部分沒有問題。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，所以說達到目標還差一大截。依據內政部地政司最新公布，2024年Q3全臺房價所得比為10.9倍，創歷史新高，代表家庭需要不吃不喝11年才能買房，且全臺房貸負擔率為40.28%，六都普遍突破50%，已經遠超過國際建議的安全值。政府除了租金補貼外，是否真正從房價管控和市場資訊透明著手？除了租金補貼，政府是否有一個結構性的改革計畫？包含抑制投機炒房與調控建商土地壟斷的具體作法，還是說在政策行銷上是先畫靶再射箭？請教一下。"],["林代理司長家正：報告委員，對於房價的部分，其實行政院有訂定一個健全房市方案，這是由我們內政部、央行，還有財政部等相關單位，分別從市場面因應，像平均地權條例就有兩次打炒房的修法，也有一些金融管制……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，但也已經超過國際建議安全值。我們就是希望大家都租得起、買得起，不是來報告而已，要有一個明確的政策，真正對我們人民有幫助。目前我們看到各地社宅租金標準不一，甚至部分地區社宅租金已經接近市價，嚴重悖離社會住宅原來應該具備的公益性和可負擔性。我們民眾黨提出的社會住宅修法草案，建議弱勢承租比率應該從原本的至少40%提升為至少50%，但是政府到現在都沒有採用，平臺登記系統也是沒有看到啟用。雖然住宅法第二十五條授權地方政府可依所得級距調整社宅租金，但各縣市訂定標準差距真的很大，比如臺北一房型租金高達9,000元，但是屏東不到5,000元，導致租金不一致，負擔性不同。政府強調照顧弱勢，但還是不提統一租金計算機制與比例提升議題，要如何才能達到人民的需求？中央跟地方的資訊落差、管理斷層要如何去補強？上次我們去新北，董建宏次長在社會住宅公聽會中，有承諾社會住宅租金所得分級會在年底前公布，請問有沒有具體的時間？我們認為年底太久了，這個會期是不是可以提出？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，有關於所得分級制的部分，其實已經跟地方政府陸陸續續大概開過8次會議了，現在都已經有相關的共識，所以現在正在草擬整個作業當中；第二個……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以什麼時候？日期、時間？"],["吳署長欣修：我們本來就預計年底前一定會提出來，這是第一……"],["麥委員玉珍：預計年底？還是確定年底？"],["吳署長欣修：年底以前。第二個就是說……"],["麥委員玉珍：你們都預計、討論、再討論，我問的是預計年底？還是確定年底？要有一個明確的時間。"],["吳署長欣修：就是預計年底之前。"],["麥委員玉珍：都是預計，每天都是預計、再研議，工作就是這樣預計再研議，應該睡夢中都會講這句話。"],["吳署長欣修：應該就會說明，因為各縣市的差異仍然都存在。"],["麥委員玉珍：我上次去新北市場勘的時候，每一棟社會住宅從北到南只有一個建商在管理，所以就慢半拍嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：不會只有一個建商。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以每一間的進度都沒有達到60到70%，現場張宏陸委員還說，如果是照建築的規定，早就要向他們罰款了，但是你們還是一樣沒有在管理，所以實際上也沒有達到這個目的。一般不管是買房還是租房，都會介紹房子周邊距離10到20分鐘有什麼設施，比如市場、學校、公車站、長照、幼照或工業區等等工作的地方，但是我看到你們把社會住宅放在中間，再將新北市所有的設施當作它的周邊設施，所以我覺得很奇怪，要給人家的是有關這個社會住宅的周邊調查，你們不是，把整個新北市都放在裡面，這樣就是糊弄我們而已。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，社宅調查的這些資料，你剛剛講是最基本的，其實我們是涵蓋整個市的。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我看到是這樣子啊！還有我們要如何去調查社會住宅裡面要建的一些公共設施？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：你們說我們去問周邊的鄰居，周邊的鄰居有住在裡面嗎？沒有嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：其實社宅也要跟周圍的鄰居和睦共處，所以關鍵是為什麼也要跟周邊居民一起融入。"],["麥委員玉珍：和睦共處，你講這個對了，所以你們要去調查所有的，不是只有問周邊，周邊鄰居沒有住在裡面，你們要去調查……"],["吳署長欣修：所以才會有全區的調查資料。"],["麥委員玉珍：去問周邊不對啦！你聽我講完，等一下你再回。我們要調查的是地理環境的需求，例如這邊已經有市場，就不用建在裡面，或者附近就有長照機構，社會住宅內就不用建，是這樣的周邊調查，不是去問周邊的人，這個社會住宅符不符合他們的需求。建社會住宅是因為要便民，不是貧民，不是把人匡在社會住宅裡面，建社會住宅還要符合住在裡面的人的需求。有些社宅的空間不夠，比如活動中心、幼兒園、長照機構，有的社宅有，有的完全沒有，我去看的是這樣，所以你們口口聲聲說不要分族群、不要歧視，但是你們的行為就是沒有去調查需求，並沒有減少貧富和城鄉的差距，所以我們要調查距離社宅10分鐘、20分鐘的範圍已經有什麼設施，我們這邊就不要再建，這樣子才是真正的便民啦！"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實在社宅興建前就已經全部調查完成了。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我看到的是這樣，你講的跟我看到的完全不一樣，所以你們做的跟講的都不一樣，都「捶心肝」。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，這些不但都有，而且都有跟地方政府溝通，跟地方政府詳細地溝通後取得調查資料。"],["麥委員玉珍：我實際用眼睛看到的是這樣，那天問出來也是這樣。拜託你們，真正的居住正義是要把青年族群、老年族群、弱勢族群，還有新住民族群平均分配在社會住宅裡，我們要突破貧富差距。"],["吳署長欣修：所以委員，這會跟你原來提案的內容不一致。"],["麥委員玉珍：提案是因為我們需要更精進，但是我實際看到的狀況，我覺得需要給你們建議，因為我們要脫貧，社宅不是在2030年才建好，你們希望臺灣更貧窮嗎？我們應該要想怎麼樣去脫貧，建好的住宅，如果你覺得要等到2030年的時候才可以住的話，大家都要等到餓死了，對不對？等到那個時候也沒辦法住啦！","我認為臺灣的年輕人已經不是不努力，而是被這個制度狠狠壓垮，政府真的想實現居住正義，請別再用空泛的口號欺騙人民，而是拿出具體的行動，還有強化執行、提高透明度，不能再讓這一代年輕人在等待社會住宅的路上住不起又買不起，甚至「買無望」。居住正義不是口號，我們要怎麼樣去符合現在人民的需求，不是只講空話，二、三十年或十年後才有，我們希望的是真正脫貧的方案，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝麥玉珍委員。","下一位我們請蘇巧慧委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-13","speakers":["牛煦庭","林倩綺","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","麥玉珍","羅智強","徐欣瑩","翁曉玲","黃健豪","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","吳琪銘","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李坤城","吳沛憶","范雲","王鴻薇","張啓楷","丁學忠","邱鎮軍","黃建賓"],"page_start":181,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃健豪等16人\n擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條\n文修正草案」案；四、審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；五、\n審查委員賴士葆等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員牛\n煦庭等16人擬具「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員翁曉玲等16\n人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及\n第二十三條條文修正草案」案；九、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案；十、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、審查委員蘇巧慧\n等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；十二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「住宅法增訂\n第二十一條之一條文草案」案；十三、審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案；十四、審查委員李坤城等24人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；十五、審查委員徐欣\n瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四\n條條文修正草案」案；十七、審查委員高金素梅等27人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案；十\n八、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法第二條條文修正草案」案；十九、審查委員\n吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員林倩綺\n等23人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1144101_00003"}}}