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\"start\": 1008.717, \"end\": 1008.798, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1008.798, \"end\": 1009.039, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"玩\", \"start\": 1009.039, \"end\": 1009.179, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"笑\", \"start\": 1009.179, \"end\": 1009.34, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 1009.34, \"end\": 1009.48, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1009.48, \"end\": 1009.601, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1009.601, \"end\": 1009.641, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1009.641, \"end\": 1010.746, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1010.746, \"end\": 1010.866, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1010.866, \"end\": 1010.967, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 1010.967, \"end\": 1011.027, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1011.027, \"end\": 1011.047, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,576 --> 00:00:30,558\n謝謝張偉,有請我們司法院副秘書長還有我們服務部的黃次長麻煩副秘書長移民署還有海巡署都有到,請上來一下好不好我想先請教黃次長,你跟我們\n\n2\n00:00:32,977 --> 00:00:47,679\n這個王富密其實都食物界非常有經驗的人但是我今天要特別來請教就是說最近竹北健身教練這個案子我相信劣童案你們應該很清楚\n\n3\n00:00:49,042 --> 00:01:07,419\n又跑掉了這本來在2月5號啊說裁定300萬交保那3月份的時候啊發現沒有到庭以後發現已經棄保潛逃我有一個很大的一個感慨啦就是說法院在做這樣子的在這種接押庭的時候啊一般來講的話應該都會通知檢察官立庭嘛\n\n4\n00:01:12,165 --> 00:01:28,871\n市長不是這樣子嗎監察庭法律沒有規定必須要通知檢察官來力挺我們陷阱法上沒有規定是那所以說檢察官也未必會到實務上其實檢察官都會力挺如果有通知我們應該會到不通知的案例多不多\n\n5\n00:01:30,231 --> 00:01:43,833\n不通知檢察官他就沒有辦法,也許他主動知道當然可以,也許他不知道他可能就沒有辦法倒庭所以這個案子就怪啦這個案子就變成說在接家庭的時候檢察官沒有立庭\n\n6\n00:01:45,080 --> 00:02:10,288\n那法院他當然他有這個權利說這個預知被告多少金額來做交保嘛那這個案子是三百萬嘛我們就不談個案啦就說像這種案子三百萬交保以後那人跑掉啦到最後你說通知開庭的時候人跑掉啦那檢察官再去講說啊我沒有收到這個裁定啊所以我無從抗告啊那你會覺得這樣檢察官的這樣子抗辯的講法說法通嗎\n\n7\n00:02:12,209 --> 00:02:37,211\n跟委員報告啦我們對法院的強制處分他基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟嘛那抗告當然檢察官要抗告全體他要審酌抗告有沒有抗告有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由他才有辦法提起抗告嘛那如果說法檢察官他沒有收到裁定書雖然這個裁定書對他宣示他可以提起抗告但畢竟沒有理由對檢察官來講他事實上他是事實上他的無從提起\n\n8\n00:02:38,312 --> 00:02:55,852\n你這樣講也未必是一個全貌實務上哪是這樣實務上有時候常常這個當庭法官就預支多少錢被告多少錢交保以後你檢察官沒有收到裁定書你知道了以後其實抗告跟上訴一樣也不一定要具體理由我先不付理由我都可以抗告啊\n\n9\n00:02:56,652 --> 00:03:17,985\n那跟那個前提是檢察官他有到場來執行公訴的前提之下所以這個案子又神不知鬼不覺檢察官又不知道啦人就這樣被給放走了那當然也未必講說法官他主觀上就是刻意要去放人也許他整個事實他認為是300萬交保本來就是很合理的啊他要跑到也不知道啊但重點我為什麼要這樣問呢就是跟前面啊\n\n10\n00:03:20,851 --> 00:03:46,910\n又發生一個中文字案嘛本來就是一個科技監控那現在就變成也是說檢察官沒有收到裁定那現在法院預支一定的金額交保以後那跑掉了以後檢察官的講法也是又說我又沒有收到裁定這就變成說到底這個制度裡面有沒有什麼樣的一個破洞在這個地方你像譬如說科技監控的部分我到現在還沒有搞清楚\n\n11\n00:03:47,967 --> 00:04:13,355\n我到現在還沒搞清楚我兩三個禮拜到法官學院的時候我特地去詢問了一下我也跟你們法界的人討論了一下我到現在還是搞不清楚就是說你像比如說實質科技監控某某某科技監控有預知科技監控一定有一段的時間嘛對不對那科技監控完以後我說把這個電子腳療我要把它給放掉把它給拿掉\n\n12\n00:04:14,332 --> 00:04:39,839\n就解除他的科技監控法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控那我們實務上就是你要有電子腳療的話你腳上有戴一個啊不可能法官自己去把它給拆除掉啊一定有人把它拆除掉啊那假設說我我是那個我們現在在執行的科技監控的人到底是誰啊\n\n13\n00:04:41,051 --> 00:05:05,592\n各位我們在四星電子組有設一個科共中心對我知道高電子組有科共中心我說實際上要把那個角料拿掉的是誰啊科共中心有專門技術人員會去是技術人員那總要有人給他下令啊他就是這樣子啊如果他科技監控有一定期間嘛如果期間到了不延期在期間到前十天我們科共中心就開始通知法官你要不要延\n\n14\n00:05:06,670 --> 00:05:32,982\n如果時間到了還沒有因為沒有接下來延長的裁定了嘛他就不能夠再繼續擴控時間到了放人很合理啦時間到了放人很合理那我的意思就是說那你時間還沒到那我法官說下個裁定說你這個解除某某某的科技監控那總會你們是用開案的系統是不是對他有一個系統好那麼系統進去了以後那也不可能那一個執行人員直接他受到這樣的一個命令啊\n\n15\n00:05:35,138 --> 00:05:57,989\n你們都不用有任何一個書面或者說電子的公文都不用他如果裁定要科技監控當然他要有一個科技監控的命令書這些命令書給科工中心一定要有所以說嘛所以說你像比如說中文字案嘛你法官說要解除這個科技監控你要一個命令書嗎\n\n16\n00:05:59,665 --> 00:06:04,980\n他這個不是他是不延長這個個案他是不延長時間到了就不延長\n\n17\n00:06:06,394 --> 00:06:31,957\n他時間到不延長所以他沒有另外的一個書面出來了就像我們羈押羈押時間到了你沒有再一個延長羈押那你檢方哪有可能不知道檢方一定知道啊高檢署一定知道啊因為他是法院直接通知客控中心的直接通知客控中心喔對他是直接高檢署法官他直接高院他直接不是高檢署高院跟科技中心聯繫因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的\n\n18\n00:06:32,657 --> 00:06:42,917\n那所以沈理中高院下這個裁定他直接通知其實就是一個裁定嘛他直接通知客控中心說中文字放人是這樣子嗎\n\n19\n00:06:46,684 --> 00:07:07,379\n他放不放人他因為他沒有被羈押他科工中心這個人沒有被羈押沒有放人的問題不是解除科技監控啦解除科技監控啦各位爸爸他如果不延長的話時間到了就不能夠不不我的意思是總要有人把他解除掉當然當然那你不可能唸咒語說好好好解除掉不可能啦\n\n20\n00:07:07,699 --> 00:07:28,829\n他到Deadline的前一天或Deadline的前一天我們的技術人員通常會約到法院的特定住所去做解除的動作所以你們的技術一定要一個技術人員把他給繳聊電子繳聊把他給解除嘛所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去把他解除的啊他收到誰的命令啊\n\n21\n00:07:30,068 --> 00:07:45,542\n法院啊法院直接喔對因為審理中就是直接直接法院對對科控中心了啊所以這件就跟你們高檢署就無關喔因為他不延長他其實其實跟這件哇那就無頭公案啊那那像這種案子你像譬如說呃\n\n22\n00:07:47,918 --> 00:07:54,240\n在審理當中你檢察官法官在借押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官立庭那檢察官事後人跑掉了以後大家都不逃公安法官說我本來就是我獨立審判我認為三百萬本來就是合理的啊我認為三百萬一般案件的話你說我要保全被告或者我整個程序的進行三百萬是合理的\n\n23\n00:08:14,346 --> 00:08:22,220\n常常會出現這樣的一個不可能每個案子都是羈押嘛那你也不能講法官是什麼那檢察官又說我沒有收到裁定那像這種案件你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點\n\n24\n00:08:28,206 --> 00:08:46,287\n當然根據委員報告啦檢察官他要監督法院的所做的裁定當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟嘛是嘛那前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定而且付理由他才有辦法救濟副秘書長有沒有什麼樣的別有這個案齁每天都要拼一件\n\n25\n00:08:47,509 --> 00:09:03,375\n補一支中文字補一支竹筆內通這個司法現在真的會有減損就是我們司法院立場我們一定會深自檢討但是我要跟委員講一下這背景就是說偵查中\n\n26\n00:09:04,216 --> 00:09:18,754\n結束之後檢察官決定他要起訴這個是檢察官決定的那今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押他今天要到法院來事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來所以那一天要進到法院的時候檢察官他是知道\n\n27\n00:09:19,335 --> 00:09:36,200\n今天檢察官要法官要決定就是這個疑審程序有沒有他要決定這個所以我們實務上過去呢我們都尊重就是說因為檢察官他本來就知道了嘛知道說今天會開這個那個結壓程序那我們都是尊重說檢察官因為\n\n28\n00:09:36,940 --> 00:10:03,649\n坦白講因為大家真的太忙了大家負擔太重所以就尊重他他們來不來第一個他們是知道的那第二就是說大案他們其實也通常都會來那就是說這個事情發生之後呢檢方既然說我們沒有通知其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知只是說有些呢就沒有通知因為檢察官前提他已經知道嘛那如果說認為這個地方我們要改善就是以後我們全面就全部通通都通知以上報告\n\n29\n00:10:04,429 --> 00:10:30,606\n那所以就是說當天要做了一個裁定檢方當然知道今天院方他會去做一個那個裁定那往後因為這個程序還在走所以說這個裁定是什麼檢察官他當然是會知道的那1306條的規定就是說院方他一定都會就是當庭去做一個宣示這個裁定已經做出來了嘛那做出來之後檢察官從這個10點開始他也是可以提抗告的\n\n30\n00:10:31,545 --> 00:10:56,814\n那社長你看講法要跟你不同來他裁定宣誓是對外生效沒有錯但是宣誓因為這個案子講得沒有道理他不曉得裁定的理由跟裁定的內容嘛他沒有裁定他不知道理由他如何進行抗告除非他就一律的抗告啦我比較在意的其實不是這個啦你們都\n\n31\n00:10:58,018 --> 00:11:12,265\n比較本位立場啦其實我聽起來也都有道理啦但問題就是說社會大眾不是這樣看啦社會大眾不會這樣看啦社會大眾一定把你們兩個的講法就是你們是呼嘌皮球啦社會大眾認為你們這樣欸不然都沒有人錯很多事情確實沒有人錯喔但問題緩解你怎麼樣去補這樣的一個漏洞\n\n32\n00:11:20,988 --> 00:11:43,813\n這第一個第二個我為什麼要請海巡跟這個呃漁民署上來的原因就是說你像譬如說我們一般財務案件你說啊你就欠稅你不叫欸我這個行政院處這個地方就跟你說你這個限制出境限制出境還有出海那一般這種情況的話你們海巡接到這樣子的話你們是怎麼處理啊\n\n33\n00:11:45,732 --> 00:12:11,889\n跟委員報告就是有關處分機關做出的限制出境海處分那本署接獲通知之後會立即由本署的偵防分署在安檢知識系統裡面書件那提供所屬來做一個查詢那如果是是啦我的意思說已經到海邊了現在到海邊了你看到了你們怎麼處理我們會告知原處分機關那禁止這個當事對象來出海\n\n34\n00:12:13,052 --> 00:12:30,049\n禁止對象出海就是說你不能處理這樣就沒有其他任何處分了你們就是阻擋你不要給我出去有沒有其他動作都沒有然後另外會通知原處分機關通知原處分機關原處分機關你們碰到他都怎麼處理他都怎麼處理\n\n35\n00:12:37,659 --> 00:12:49,814\n也譬如說行政執行處我們跟你們說這個人就欠稅了不能處理他們來到海邊你們在巡邏你給他通知有一個人在這個地方他欠稅的他不能出去的那他通知你們接下來怎麼處理\n\n36\n00:12:50,834 --> 00:13:09,939\n他們會到現場嗎不會吧原主任機關未必會到現場那有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象他不可以出海就只告訴他不可以出海而已那請問移民署移民署你們怎麼處理飛機要飛出去的到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣委員好\n\n37\n00:13:10,379 --> 00:13:36,840\n如果我們收到行政機關或是司軍法機關的那個限制出境的命令那原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候我們也是一語攔阻攔阻是一定攔阻我說你們用什麼樣的處分的方式原則上如果他不能出境的情況之下我們會看後續之前那個司軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記希望我們做什麼樣的動作你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎你們就是開書面\n\n38\n00:13:39,022 --> 00:14:03,764\n那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣這也怪喔我現在變成這種限制出境跟出海的部分海巡跟移民署的做法就不同啦你們移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說你已經限制出境出海了所以你不能出境交給他憑什麼給他照反而海巡的做法又不一樣了他會去通知原機關然後等他的指示看要怎麼做處理\n\n39\n00:14:06,631 --> 00:14:23,926\n跟委員補充報告一下因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單通知單裡面會跟當事人告知說是哪個機關來禁止他出境那後續的處置的部分我們會依個\n\n40\n00:14:25,848 --> 00:14:47,587\n禁止出境的機關給我們的指示如果他需要電告那我們就會用電告的方式如果當事人是需要我們留置那我們就會就留置的方式請該等行政機關來做處理好我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長就是說你像一般我們做限制出境的話像譬如說限制出境搭飛機的一定要護照嘛\n\n41\n00:14:48,368 --> 00:15:06,317\n那限制出境我看今天羅志強委員他也提了一個案子啦我都這個蠻有創意的你像譬如說你說限制出境了那我法院可以把你限制出境啦我有這個權限把你限制出境啦我乾脆把你這個護照給註銷啦我覺得這倒也不錯的一個思考的方式我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n42\n00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:18,028\n我們司法院是贊同的因為目前的那個因為目前那個我們在那個報告上有講就是說\n\n43\n00:15:21,909 --> 00:15:49,114\n那個現行的那個行政作業上就是說外交部他們本來就是也有就不發護照跟那個註銷那現在就是說對於註銷的這一塊呢就是說把它放到那個116之二讓它作為就是停止羈押一個替代那個處分這個是可行的那這個等於是跟就是說他們外交部他們所做等於是那個多重的一個行政處分嘛\n\n44\n00:15:49,594 --> 00:16:15,162\n那這個我們認為是可行而且是有效的我也認為是有效所以羅志祥這個案子我準備給你支持但是最後的一個叮嚀就是說願檢其實像已經接二連三出現這樣的一個狀況常常讓檢察官用說我沒有收到裁定這個不是辦法啦再出現一次再出現一次每一次出現\n\n45\n00:16:17,216 --> 00:16:44,008\n民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣啊你們想的是各自的是誰的一個理由到最後可能會有究責的問題嘛這到底問題點出在哪裡搞不好都嚴不爽民眾的想法就是啊是不是又偷偷放人了這個對司法的信賴多會減損啊你們還是要想個辦法院檢之間看怎麼樣有一個聯繫或者研擬出一個你們共同看怎麼樣把這個\n\n46\n00:16:46,749 --> 00:16:51,047\n動把它給補起來我覺得這個不要開玩笑啦好不好可以喔好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8576\t30558\t謝謝張偉,有請我們司法院副秘書長還有我們服務部的黃次長麻煩副秘書長移民署還有海巡署都有到,請上來一下好不好我想先請教黃次長,你跟我們\n32977\t47679\t這個王富密其實都食物界非常有經驗的人但是我今天要特別來請教就是說最近竹北健身教練這個案子我相信劣童案你們應該很清楚\n49042\t67419\t又跑掉了 這本來在2月5號啊 說裁定300萬交保那3月份的時候啊 發現沒有到庭以後 發現已經棄保潛逃我有一個很大的一個感慨啦 就是說法院在做這樣子的 在這種接押庭的時候啊一般來講的話 應該都會通知檢察官立庭嘛\n72165\t88871\t市長不是這樣子嗎監察庭法律沒有規定必須要通知檢察官來力挺我們陷阱法上沒有規定是那所以說檢察官也未必會到實務上其實檢察官都會力挺如果有通知我們應該會到不通知的案例多不多\n90231\t103833\t不通知檢察官他就沒有辦法,也許他主動知道當然可以,也許他不知道他可能就沒有辦法倒庭所以這個案子就怪啦這個案子就變成說在接家庭的時候檢察官沒有立庭\n105080\t130288\t那法院他當然他有這個權利說這個預知被告多少金額來做交保嘛那這個案子是三百萬嘛我們就不談個案啦就說像這種案子三百萬交保以後那人跑掉啦到最後你說通知開庭的時候人跑掉啦那檢察官再去講說啊我沒有收到這個裁定啊所以我無從抗告啊那你會覺得這樣檢察官的這樣子抗辯的講法說法通嗎\n132209\t157211\t跟委員報告啦我們對法院的強制處分他基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟嘛那抗告當然檢察官要抗告全體他要審酌抗告有沒有抗告有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由他才有辦法提起抗告嘛那如果說法檢察官他沒有收到裁定書雖然這個裁定書對他宣示他可以提起抗告但畢竟沒有理由對檢察官來講他事實上他是事實上他的無從提起\n158312\t175852\t你這樣講也未必是一個全貌實務上哪是這樣 實務上有時候常常這個當庭法官就預支多少錢 被告多少錢 交保以後你檢察官沒有收到裁定書 你知道了以後其實抗告跟上訴一樣也不一定要具體理由我先不付理由我都可以抗告啊\n176652\t197985\t那跟那個前提是檢察官他有到場來執行公訴的前提之下所以這個案子又神不知鬼不覺檢察官又不知道啦人就這樣被給放走了那當然也未必講說法官他主觀上就是刻意要去放人也許他整個事實他認為是300萬交保本來就是很合理的啊他要跑到也不知道啊但重點我為什麼要這樣問呢就是跟前面啊\n200851\t226910\t又發生一個中文字案嘛本來就是一個科技監控那現在就變成也是說檢察官沒有收到裁定那現在法院預支一定的金額交保以後那跑掉了以後檢察官的講法也是又說我又沒有收到裁定這就變成說到底這個制度裡面有沒有什麼樣的一個破洞在這個地方你像譬如說科技監控的部分我到現在還沒有搞清楚\n227967\t253355\t我到現在還沒搞清楚我兩三個禮拜到法官學院的時候我特地去詢問了一下我也跟你們法界的人討論了一下我到現在還是搞不清楚就是說你像比如說實質科技監控某某某科技監控有預知科技監控一定有一段的時間嘛對不對那科技監控完以後我說把這個電子腳療我要把它給放掉把它給拿掉\n254332\t279839\t就解除他的科技監控法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控那我們實務上就是你要有電子腳療的話你腳上有戴一個啊不可能法官自己去把它給拆除掉啊一定有人把它拆除掉啊那假設說我我是那個我們現在在執行的科技監控的人到底是誰啊\n281051\t305592\t各位我們在四星電子組有設一個科共中心對 我知道高電子組有科共中心我說實際上要把那個角料拿掉的是誰啊科共中心有專門技術人員會去是技術人員那總要有人給他下令啊他就是這樣子啊如果他科技監控有一定期間嘛如果期間到了不延期在期間到前十天我們科共中心就開始通知法官你要不要延\n306670\t332982\t如果時間到了還沒有因為沒有接下來延長的裁定了嘛他就不能夠再繼續擴控時間到了放人很合理啦時間到了放人很合理那我的意思就是說那你時間還沒到那我法官說下個裁定說你這個解除某某某的科技監控那總會你們是用開案的系統是不是對 他有一個系統好 那麼系統進去了以後那也不可能那一個執行人員直接他受到這樣的一個命令啊\n335138\t357989\t你們都不用有任何一個書面或者說電子的公文都不用他如果裁定要科技監控當然他要有一個科技監控的命令書這些命令書給科工中心一定要有所以說嘛所以說你像比如說中文字案嘛你法官說要解除這個科技監控你要一個命令書嗎\n359665\t364980\t他這個不是 他是不延長 這個個案他是不延長時間到了就不延長\n366394\t391957\t他時間到不延長所以他沒有另外的一個書面出來了就像我們羈押 羈押時間到了你沒有再一個延長羈押那你檢方哪有可能不知道 檢方一定知道啊高檢署一定知道啊因為他是法院直接通知客控中心的直接通知客控中心喔對 他是直接 高檢署法官 他直接高院他直接 不是高檢署 高院跟科技中心聯繫因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的\n392657\t402917\t那所以沈理中高院下這個裁定他直接通知 其實就是一個裁定嘛他直接通知客控中心說中文字放人是這樣子嗎\n406684\t427379\t他放不放人 他因為 他沒有被羈押他科工中心這個人沒有被羈押 沒有放人的問題不是 解除科技監控啦 解除科技監控啦各位爸爸 他如果不延長的話 時間到了就不能夠不 不 我的意思是總要有人把他解除掉當然 當然那你不可能唸咒語說好好好 解除掉 不可能啦\n427699\t448829\t他到Deadline的前一天或Deadline的前一天我們的技術人員通常會約到法院的特定住所去做解除的動作所以你們的技術一定要一個技術人員把他給繳聊電子繳聊把他給解除嘛所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去把他解除的啊他收到誰的命令啊\n450068\t465542\t法院啊法院直接喔對因為審理中就是直接直接法院對對科控中心了啊所以這件就跟你們高檢署就無關喔因為他不延長他其實其實跟這件哇那就無頭公案啊那那像這種案子你像譬如說呃\n467918\t474240\t在審理當中你檢察官 法官在借押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官立庭那檢察官事後 人跑掉了以後大家都不逃公安法官說我本來就是我獨立審判我認為三百萬本來就是合理的啊我認為三百萬一般案件的話你說我要保全被告或者我整個程序的進行三百萬是合理的\n494346\t502220\t常常會出現這樣的一個不可能每個案子都是羈押嘛那你也不能講法官是什麼那檢察官又說我沒有收到裁定那像這種案件你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點\n508206\t526287\t當然根據委員報告啦 檢察官他要監督法院的所做的裁定當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟嘛是嘛 那前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定而且付理由他才有辦法救濟副秘書長有沒有什麼樣的 別有這個案齁每天都要拼一件\n527509\t543375\t補一支中文字 補一支竹筆內通這個司法現在真的會有減損就是我們司法院立場我們一定會深自檢討但是我要跟委員講一下這背景就是說偵查中\n544216\t558754\t結束之後檢察官決定他要起訴這個是檢察官決定的那今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押他今天要到法院來事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來所以那一天要進到法院的時候檢察官他是知道\n559335\t576200\t今天檢察官要法官要決定就是這個疑審程序有沒有他要決定這個所以我們實務上過去呢我們都尊重就是說因為檢察官他本來就知道了嘛知道說今天會開這個那個結壓程序那我們都是尊重說檢察官因為\n576940\t603649\t坦白講因為大家真的太忙了大家負擔太重所以就尊重他他們來不來第一個他們是知道的那第二就是說大案他們其實也通常都會來那就是說這個事情發生之後呢檢方既然說我們沒有通知其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知只是說有些呢就沒有通知因為檢察官前提他已經知道嘛那如果說認為這個地方我們要改善就是以後我們全面就全部通通都通知以上報告\n604429\t630606\t那所以就是說當天要做了一個裁定檢方當然知道今天院方他會去做一個那個裁定那往後因為這個程序還在走所以說這個裁定是什麼檢察官他當然是會知道的那1306條的規定就是說院方他一定都會就是當庭去做一個宣示這個裁定已經做出來了嘛那做出來之後檢察官從這個10點開始他也是可以提抗告的\n631545\t656814\t那 社長 你看 講法要跟你不同來他裁定 宣誓是對外生效沒有錯但是 宣誓因為這個案子講得沒有道理他不曉得裁定的理由跟裁定的內容嘛他沒有裁定 他不知道理由他如何進行抗告 除非他就一律的抗告啦我比較在意的其實不是這個啦 你們都\n658018\t672265\t比較本位立場啦 其實我聽起來也都有道理啦但問題就是說 社會大眾不是這樣看啦社會大眾不會這樣看啦社會大眾一定把你們兩個的講法就是你們是呼嘌皮球啦社會大眾認為你們這樣 欸 不然都沒有人錯很多事情確實沒有人錯喔但問題緩解你怎麼樣去補這樣的一個漏洞\n680988\t703813\t這第一個 第二個我為什麼要請海巡跟這個 呃 漁民署上來的原因就是說你像譬如說 我們一般財務案件 你說啊你就欠稅 你不叫欸 我這個行政院處這個地方 就跟你說 你這個限制出境限制出境 還有出海那一般這種情況的話 你們海巡接到這樣子的話 你們是怎麼處理啊\n705732\t731889\t跟委員報告就是有關處分機關做出的限制出境海處分那本署接獲通知之後會立即由本署的偵防分署在安檢知識系統裡面書件那提供所屬來做一個查詢那如果是 是啦我的意思說已經到海邊了 現在到海邊了你看到了你們怎麼處理我們會告知原處分機關那禁止這個當事對象來出海\n733052\t750049\t禁止對象出海 就是說你不能處理這樣就沒有其他任何處分了你們就是阻擋你不要給我出去有沒有其他動作 都沒有然後另外會通知原處分機關通知原處分機關原處分機關你們碰到他都怎麼處理他都怎麼處理\n757659\t769814\t也譬如說行政執行處我們跟你們說這個人就欠稅了 不能處理他們來到海邊 你們在巡邏你給他通知有一個人在這個地方他欠稅的 他不能出去的那他通知你們接下來怎麼處理\n770834\t789939\t他們會到現場嗎 不會吧原主任機關未必會到現場那有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象他不可以出海就只告訴他不可以出海而已那請問移民署移民署你們怎麼處理飛機要飛出去的到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣委員好\n790379\t816840\t如果我們收到行政機關或是司軍法機關的那個限制出境的命令那原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候我們也是一語攔阻攔阻是一定攔阻我說你們用什麼樣的處分的方式原則上如果他不能出境的情況之下我們會看後續之前那個司軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記希望我們做什麼樣的動作你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎你們就是開書面\n819022\t843764\t那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣這也怪喔我現在變成這種限制出境跟出海的部分海巡跟移民署的做法就不同啦你們移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說你已經限制出境出海了所以你不能出境 交給他 憑什麼給他照反而海巡的做法又不一樣了他會去通知原機關然後等他的指示看要怎麼做處理\n846631\t863926\t跟委員補充報告一下因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單通知單裡面會跟當事人告知說是哪個機關來禁止他出境那後續的處置的部分我們會依個\n865848\t887587\t禁止出境的機關給我們的指示如果他需要電告那我們就會用電告的方式如果當事人是需要我們留置那我們就會就留置的方式請該等行政機關來做處理好 我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長就是說你像一般我們做限制出境的話像譬如說限制出境搭飛機的一定要護照嘛\n888368\t906317\t那限制出境 我看今天羅志強委員他也提了一個案子啦我都這個蠻有創意的 你像譬如說你說限制出境了 那我法院可以把你限制出境啦我有這個權限把你限制出境啦 我乾脆把你這個護照給註銷啦我覺得這倒也不錯的一個思考的方式 我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣\n907350\t918028\t我們司法院是贊同的因為目前的那個因為目前那個我們在那個報告上有講就是說\n921909\t949114\t那個現行的那個行政作業上就是說外交部他們本來就是也有就不發護照跟那個註銷那現在就是說對於註銷的這一塊呢就是說把它放到那個116之二讓它作為就是停止羈押一個替代那個處分這個是可行的那這個等於是跟就是說他們外交部他們所做等於是那個多重的一個行政處分嘛\n949594\t975162\t那這個我們認為是可行而且是有效的我也認為是有效所以羅志祥這個案子我準備給你支持但是最後的一個叮嚀就是說願檢其實像已經接二連三出現這樣的一個狀況常常讓檢察官用說我沒有收到裁定這個不是辦法啦再出現一次再出現一次每一次出現\n977216\t1004008\t民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣啊你們想的是各自的是誰的一個理由到最後可能會有究責的問題嘛這到底問題點出在哪裡搞不好都嚴不爽民眾的想法就是 啊是不是又偷偷放人了這個對司法的信賴多會減損啊你們還是要想個辦法院檢之間看怎麼樣有一個聯繫或者研擬出一個你們共同看怎麼樣把這個\n1006749\t1011047\t動把它給補起來我覺得這個不要開玩笑啦好不好可以喔 好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝張偉,有請我們司法院副秘書長還有我們服務部的黃次長麻煩副秘書長移民署還有海巡署都有到,請上來一下好不好我想先請教黃次長,你跟我們\n這個王富密其實都食物界非常有經驗的人但是我今天要特別來請教就是說最近竹北健身教練這個案子我相信劣童案你們應該很清楚\n又跑掉了 這本來在2月5號啊 說裁定300萬交保那3月份的時候啊 發現沒有到庭以後 發現已經棄保潛逃我有一個很大的一個感慨啦 就是說法院在做這樣子的 在這種接押庭的時候啊一般來講的話 應該都會通知檢察官立庭嘛\n市長不是這樣子嗎監察庭法律沒有規定必須要通知檢察官來力挺我們陷阱法上沒有規定是那所以說檢察官也未必會到實務上其實檢察官都會力挺如果有通知我們應該會到不通知的案例多不多\n不通知檢察官他就沒有辦法,也許他主動知道當然可以,也許他不知道他可能就沒有辦法倒庭所以這個案子就怪啦這個案子就變成說在接家庭的時候檢察官沒有立庭\n那法院他當然他有這個權利說這個預知被告多少金額來做交保嘛那這個案子是三百萬嘛我們就不談個案啦就說像這種案子三百萬交保以後那人跑掉啦到最後你說通知開庭的時候人跑掉啦那檢察官再去講說啊我沒有收到這個裁定啊所以我無從抗告啊那你會覺得這樣檢察官的這樣子抗辯的講法說法通嗎\n跟委員報告啦我們對法院的強制處分他基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟嘛那抗告當然檢察官要抗告全體他要審酌抗告有沒有抗告有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由他才有辦法提起抗告嘛那如果說法檢察官他沒有收到裁定書雖然這個裁定書對他宣示他可以提起抗告但畢竟沒有理由對檢察官來講他事實上他是事實上他的無從提起\n你這樣講也未必是一個全貌實務上哪是這樣 實務上有時候常常這個當庭法官就預支多少錢 被告多少錢 交保以後你檢察官沒有收到裁定書 你知道了以後其實抗告跟上訴一樣也不一定要具體理由我先不付理由我都可以抗告啊\n那跟那個前提是檢察官他有到場來執行公訴的前提之下所以這個案子又神不知鬼不覺檢察官又不知道啦人就這樣被給放走了那當然也未必講說法官他主觀上就是刻意要去放人也許他整個事實他認為是300萬交保本來就是很合理的啊他要跑到也不知道啊但重點我為什麼要這樣問呢就是跟前面啊\n又發生一個中文字案嘛本來就是一個科技監控那現在就變成也是說檢察官沒有收到裁定那現在法院預支一定的金額交保以後那跑掉了以後檢察官的講法也是又說我又沒有收到裁定這就變成說到底這個制度裡面有沒有什麼樣的一個破洞在這個地方你像譬如說科技監控的部分我到現在還沒有搞清楚\n我到現在還沒搞清楚我兩三個禮拜到法官學院的時候我特地去詢問了一下我也跟你們法界的人討論了一下我到現在還是搞不清楚就是說你像比如說實質科技監控某某某科技監控有預知科技監控一定有一段的時間嘛對不對那科技監控完以後我說把這個電子腳療我要把它給放掉把它給拿掉\n就解除他的科技監控法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控那我們實務上就是你要有電子腳療的話你腳上有戴一個啊不可能法官自己去把它給拆除掉啊一定有人把它拆除掉啊那假設說我我是那個我們現在在執行的科技監控的人到底是誰啊\n各位我們在四星電子組有設一個科共中心對 我知道高電子組有科共中心我說實際上要把那個角料拿掉的是誰啊科共中心有專門技術人員會去是技術人員那總要有人給他下令啊他就是這樣子啊如果他科技監控有一定期間嘛如果期間到了不延期在期間到前十天我們科共中心就開始通知法官你要不要延\n如果時間到了還沒有因為沒有接下來延長的裁定了嘛他就不能夠再繼續擴控時間到了放人很合理啦時間到了放人很合理那我的意思就是說那你時間還沒到那我法官說下個裁定說你這個解除某某某的科技監控那總會你們是用開案的系統是不是對 他有一個系統好 那麼系統進去了以後那也不可能那一個執行人員直接他受到這樣的一個命令啊\n你們都不用有任何一個書面或者說電子的公文都不用他如果裁定要科技監控當然他要有一個科技監控的命令書這些命令書給科工中心一定要有所以說嘛所以說你像比如說中文字案嘛你法官說要解除這個科技監控你要一個命令書嗎\n他這個不是 他是不延長 這個個案他是不延長時間到了就不延長\n他時間到不延長所以他沒有另外的一個書面出來了就像我們羈押 羈押時間到了你沒有再一個延長羈押那你檢方哪有可能不知道 檢方一定知道啊高檢署一定知道啊因為他是法院直接通知客控中心的直接通知客控中心喔對 他是直接 高檢署法官 他直接高院他直接 不是高檢署 高院跟科技中心聯繫因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的\n那所以沈理中高院下這個裁定他直接通知 其實就是一個裁定嘛他直接通知客控中心說中文字放人是這樣子嗎\n他放不放人 他因為 他沒有被羈押他科工中心這個人沒有被羈押 沒有放人的問題不是 解除科技監控啦 解除科技監控啦各位爸爸 他如果不延長的話 時間到了就不能夠不 不 我的意思是總要有人把他解除掉當然 當然那你不可能唸咒語說好好好 解除掉 不可能啦\n他到Deadline的前一天或Deadline的前一天我們的技術人員通常會約到法院的特定住所去做解除的動作所以你們的技術一定要一個技術人員把他給繳聊電子繳聊把他給解除嘛所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去把他解除的啊他收到誰的命令啊\n法院啊法院直接喔對因為審理中就是直接直接法院對對科控中心了啊所以這件就跟你們高檢署就無關喔因為他不延長他其實其實跟這件哇那就無頭公案啊那那像這種案子你像譬如說呃\n在審理當中你檢察官 法官在借押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官立庭那檢察官事後 人跑掉了以後大家都不逃公安法官說我本來就是我獨立審判我認為三百萬本來就是合理的啊我認為三百萬一般案件的話你說我要保全被告或者我整個程序的進行三百萬是合理的\n常常會出現這樣的一個不可能每個案子都是羈押嘛那你也不能講法官是什麼那檢察官又說我沒有收到裁定那像這種案件你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點\n當然根據委員報告啦 檢察官他要監督法院的所做的裁定當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟嘛是嘛 那前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定而且付理由他才有辦法救濟副秘書長有沒有什麼樣的 別有這個案齁每天都要拼一件\n補一支中文字 補一支竹筆內通這個司法現在真的會有減損就是我們司法院立場我們一定會深自檢討但是我要跟委員講一下這背景就是說偵查中\n結束之後檢察官決定他要起訴這個是檢察官決定的那今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押他今天要到法院來事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來所以那一天要進到法院的時候檢察官他是知道\n今天檢察官要法官要決定就是這個疑審程序有沒有他要決定這個所以我們實務上過去呢我們都尊重就是說因為檢察官他本來就知道了嘛知道說今天會開這個那個結壓程序那我們都是尊重說檢察官因為\n坦白講因為大家真的太忙了大家負擔太重所以就尊重他他們來不來第一個他們是知道的那第二就是說大案他們其實也通常都會來那就是說這個事情發生之後呢檢方既然說我們沒有通知其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知只是說有些呢就沒有通知因為檢察官前提他已經知道嘛那如果說認為這個地方我們要改善就是以後我們全面就全部通通都通知以上報告\n那所以就是說當天要做了一個裁定檢方當然知道今天院方他會去做一個那個裁定那往後因為這個程序還在走所以說這個裁定是什麼檢察官他當然是會知道的那1306條的規定就是說院方他一定都會就是當庭去做一個宣示這個裁定已經做出來了嘛那做出來之後檢察官從這個10點開始他也是可以提抗告的\n那 社長 你看 講法要跟你不同來他裁定 宣誓是對外生效沒有錯但是 宣誓因為這個案子講得沒有道理他不曉得裁定的理由跟裁定的內容嘛他沒有裁定 他不知道理由他如何進行抗告 除非他就一律的抗告啦我比較在意的其實不是這個啦 你們都\n比較本位立場啦 其實我聽起來也都有道理啦但問題就是說 社會大眾不是這樣看啦社會大眾不會這樣看啦社會大眾一定把你們兩個的講法就是你們是呼嘌皮球啦社會大眾認為你們這樣 欸 不然都沒有人錯很多事情確實沒有人錯喔但問題緩解你怎麼樣去補這樣的一個漏洞\n這第一個 第二個我為什麼要請海巡跟這個 呃 漁民署上來的原因就是說你像譬如說 我們一般財務案件 你說啊你就欠稅 你不叫欸 我這個行政院處這個地方 就跟你說 你這個限制出境限制出境 還有出海那一般這種情況的話 你們海巡接到這樣子的話 你們是怎麼處理啊\n跟委員報告就是有關處分機關做出的限制出境海處分那本署接獲通知之後會立即由本署的偵防分署在安檢知識系統裡面書件那提供所屬來做一個查詢那如果是 是啦我的意思說已經到海邊了 現在到海邊了你看到了你們怎麼處理我們會告知原處分機關那禁止這個當事對象來出海\n禁止對象出海 就是說你不能處理這樣就沒有其他任何處分了你們就是阻擋你不要給我出去有沒有其他動作 都沒有然後另外會通知原處分機關通知原處分機關原處分機關你們碰到他都怎麼處理他都怎麼處理\n也譬如說行政執行處我們跟你們說這個人就欠稅了 不能處理他們來到海邊 你們在巡邏你給他通知有一個人在這個地方他欠稅的 他不能出去的那他通知你們接下來怎麼處理\n他們會到現場嗎 不會吧原主任機關未必會到現場那有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象他不可以出海就只告訴他不可以出海而已那請問移民署移民署你們怎麼處理飛機要飛出去的到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣委員好\n如果我們收到行政機關或是司軍法機關的那個限制出境的命令那原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候我們也是一語攔阻攔阻是一定攔阻我說你們用什麼樣的處分的方式原則上如果他不能出境的情況之下我們會看後續之前那個司軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記希望我們做什麼樣的動作你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎你們就是開書面\n那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣這也怪喔我現在變成這種限制出境跟出海的部分海巡跟移民署的做法就不同啦你們移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說你已經限制出境出海了所以你不能出境 交給他 憑什麼給他照反而海巡的做法又不一樣了他會去通知原機關然後等他的指示看要怎麼做處理\n跟委員補充報告一下因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單通知單裡面會跟當事人告知說是哪個機關來禁止他出境那後續的處置的部分我們會依個\n禁止出境的機關給我們的指示如果他需要電告那我們就會用電告的方式如果當事人是需要我們留置那我們就會就留置的方式請該等行政機關來做處理好 我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長就是說你像一般我們做限制出境的話像譬如說限制出境搭飛機的一定要護照嘛\n那限制出境 我看今天羅志強委員他也提了一個案子啦我都這個蠻有創意的 你像譬如說你說限制出境了 那我法院可以把你限制出境啦我有這個權限把你限制出境啦 我乾脆把你這個護照給註銷啦我覺得這倒也不錯的一個思考的方式 我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣\n我們司法院是贊同的因為目前的那個因為目前那個我們在那個報告上有講就是說\n那個現行的那個行政作業上就是說外交部他們本來就是也有就不發護照跟那個註銷那現在就是說對於註銷的這一塊呢就是說把它放到那個116之二讓它作為就是停止羈押一個替代那個處分這個是可行的那這個等於是跟就是說他們外交部他們所做等於是那個多重的一個行政處分嘛\n那這個我們認為是可行而且是有效的我也認為是有效所以羅志祥這個案子我準備給你支持但是最後的一個叮嚀就是說願檢其實像已經接二連三出現這樣的一個狀況常常讓檢察官用說我沒有收到裁定這個不是辦法啦再出現一次再出現一次每一次出現\n民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣啊你們想的是各自的是誰的一個理由到最後可能會有究責的問題嘛這到底問題點出在哪裡搞不好都嚴不爽民眾的想法就是 啊是不是又偷偷放人了這個對司法的信賴多會減損啊你們還是要想個辦法院檢之間看怎麼樣有一個聯繫或者研擬出一個你們共同看怎麼樣把這個\n動把它給補起來我覺得這個不要開玩笑啦好不好可以喔 好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.576 --> 00:30.558\n謝謝張偉,有請我們司法院副秘書長還有我們服務部的黃次長麻煩副秘書長移民署還有海巡署都有到,請上來一下好不好我想先請教黃次長,你跟我們\n\n00:32.977 --> 00:47.679\n這個王富密其實都食物界非常有經驗的人但是我今天要特別來請教就是說最近竹北健身教練這個案子我相信劣童案你們應該很清楚\n\n00:49.042 --> 01:07.419\n又跑掉了這本來在2月5號啊說裁定300萬交保那3月份的時候啊發現沒有到庭以後發現已經棄保潛逃我有一個很大的一個感慨啦就是說法院在做這樣子的在這種接押庭的時候啊一般來講的話應該都會通知檢察官立庭嘛\n\n01:12.165 --> 01:28.871\n市長不是這樣子嗎監察庭法律沒有規定必須要通知檢察官來力挺我們陷阱法上沒有規定是那所以說檢察官也未必會到實務上其實檢察官都會力挺如果有通知我們應該會到不通知的案例多不多\n\n01:30.231 --> 01:43.833\n不通知檢察官他就沒有辦法,也許他主動知道當然可以,也許他不知道他可能就沒有辦法倒庭所以這個案子就怪啦這個案子就變成說在接家庭的時候檢察官沒有立庭\n\n01:45.080 --> 02:10.288\n那法院他當然他有這個權利說這個預知被告多少金額來做交保嘛那這個案子是三百萬嘛我們就不談個案啦就說像這種案子三百萬交保以後那人跑掉啦到最後你說通知開庭的時候人跑掉啦那檢察官再去講說啊我沒有收到這個裁定啊所以我無從抗告啊那你會覺得這樣檢察官的這樣子抗辯的講法說法通嗎\n\n02:12.209 --> 02:37.211\n跟委員報告啦我們對法院的強制處分他基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟嘛那抗告當然檢察官要抗告全體他要審酌抗告有沒有抗告有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由他才有辦法提起抗告嘛那如果說法檢察官他沒有收到裁定書雖然這個裁定書對他宣示他可以提起抗告但畢竟沒有理由對檢察官來講他事實上他是事實上他的無從提起\n\n02:38.312 --> 02:55.852\n你這樣講也未必是一個全貌實務上哪是這樣實務上有時候常常這個當庭法官就預支多少錢被告多少錢交保以後你檢察官沒有收到裁定書你知道了以後其實抗告跟上訴一樣也不一定要具體理由我先不付理由我都可以抗告啊\n\n02:56.652 --> 03:17.985\n那跟那個前提是檢察官他有到場來執行公訴的前提之下所以這個案子又神不知鬼不覺檢察官又不知道啦人就這樣被給放走了那當然也未必講說法官他主觀上就是刻意要去放人也許他整個事實他認為是300萬交保本來就是很合理的啊他要跑到也不知道啊但重點我為什麼要這樣問呢就是跟前面啊\n\n03:20.851 --> 03:46.910\n又發生一個中文字案嘛本來就是一個科技監控那現在就變成也是說檢察官沒有收到裁定那現在法院預支一定的金額交保以後那跑掉了以後檢察官的講法也是又說我又沒有收到裁定這就變成說到底這個制度裡面有沒有什麼樣的一個破洞在這個地方你像譬如說科技監控的部分我到現在還沒有搞清楚\n\n03:47.967 --> 04:13.355\n我到現在還沒搞清楚我兩三個禮拜到法官學院的時候我特地去詢問了一下我也跟你們法界的人討論了一下我到現在還是搞不清楚就是說你像比如說實質科技監控某某某科技監控有預知科技監控一定有一段的時間嘛對不對那科技監控完以後我說把這個電子腳療我要把它給放掉把它給拿掉\n\n04:14.332 --> 04:39.839\n就解除他的科技監控法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控那我們實務上就是你要有電子腳療的話你腳上有戴一個啊不可能法官自己去把它給拆除掉啊一定有人把它拆除掉啊那假設說我我是那個我們現在在執行的科技監控的人到底是誰啊\n\n04:41.051 --> 05:05.592\n各位我們在四星電子組有設一個科共中心對我知道高電子組有科共中心我說實際上要把那個角料拿掉的是誰啊科共中心有專門技術人員會去是技術人員那總要有人給他下令啊他就是這樣子啊如果他科技監控有一定期間嘛如果期間到了不延期在期間到前十天我們科共中心就開始通知法官你要不要延\n\n05:06.670 --> 05:32.982\n如果時間到了還沒有因為沒有接下來延長的裁定了嘛他就不能夠再繼續擴控時間到了放人很合理啦時間到了放人很合理那我的意思就是說那你時間還沒到那我法官說下個裁定說你這個解除某某某的科技監控那總會你們是用開案的系統是不是對他有一個系統好那麼系統進去了以後那也不可能那一個執行人員直接他受到這樣的一個命令啊\n\n05:35.138 --> 05:57.989\n你們都不用有任何一個書面或者說電子的公文都不用他如果裁定要科技監控當然他要有一個科技監控的命令書這些命令書給科工中心一定要有所以說嘛所以說你像比如說中文字案嘛你法官說要解除這個科技監控你要一個命令書嗎\n\n05:59.665 --> 06:04.980\n他這個不是他是不延長這個個案他是不延長時間到了就不延長\n\n06:06.394 --> 06:31.957\n他時間到不延長所以他沒有另外的一個書面出來了就像我們羈押羈押時間到了你沒有再一個延長羈押那你檢方哪有可能不知道檢方一定知道啊高檢署一定知道啊因為他是法院直接通知客控中心的直接通知客控中心喔對他是直接高檢署法官他直接高院他直接不是高檢署高院跟科技中心聯繫因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的\n\n06:32.657 --> 06:42.917\n那所以沈理中高院下這個裁定他直接通知其實就是一個裁定嘛他直接通知客控中心說中文字放人是這樣子嗎\n\n06:46.684 --> 07:07.379\n他放不放人他因為他沒有被羈押他科工中心這個人沒有被羈押沒有放人的問題不是解除科技監控啦解除科技監控啦各位爸爸他如果不延長的話時間到了就不能夠不不我的意思是總要有人把他解除掉當然當然那你不可能唸咒語說好好好解除掉不可能啦\n\n07:07.699 --> 07:28.829\n他到Deadline的前一天或Deadline的前一天我們的技術人員通常會約到法院的特定住所去做解除的動作所以你們的技術一定要一個技術人員把他給繳聊電子繳聊把他給解除嘛所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去把他解除的啊他收到誰的命令啊\n\n07:30.068 --> 07:45.542\n法院啊法院直接喔對因為審理中就是直接直接法院對對科控中心了啊所以這件就跟你們高檢署就無關喔因為他不延長他其實其實跟這件哇那就無頭公案啊那那像這種案子你像譬如說呃\n\n07:47.918 --> 07:54.240\n在審理當中你檢察官法官在借押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官立庭那檢察官事後人跑掉了以後大家都不逃公安法官說我本來就是我獨立審判我認為三百萬本來就是合理的啊我認為三百萬一般案件的話你說我要保全被告或者我整個程序的進行三百萬是合理的\n\n08:14.346 --> 08:22.220\n常常會出現這樣的一個不可能每個案子都是羈押嘛那你也不能講法官是什麼那檢察官又說我沒有收到裁定那像這種案件你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點\n\n08:28.206 --> 08:46.287\n當然根據委員報告啦檢察官他要監督法院的所做的裁定當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟嘛是嘛那前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定而且付理由他才有辦法救濟副秘書長有沒有什麼樣的別有這個案齁每天都要拼一件\n\n08:47.509 --> 09:03.375\n補一支中文字補一支竹筆內通這個司法現在真的會有減損就是我們司法院立場我們一定會深自檢討但是我要跟委員講一下這背景就是說偵查中\n\n09:04.216 --> 09:18.754\n結束之後檢察官決定他要起訴這個是檢察官決定的那今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押他今天要到法院來事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來所以那一天要進到法院的時候檢察官他是知道\n\n09:19.335 --> 09:36.200\n今天檢察官要法官要決定就是這個疑審程序有沒有他要決定這個所以我們實務上過去呢我們都尊重就是說因為檢察官他本來就知道了嘛知道說今天會開這個那個結壓程序那我們都是尊重說檢察官因為\n\n09:36.940 --> 10:03.649\n坦白講因為大家真的太忙了大家負擔太重所以就尊重他他們來不來第一個他們是知道的那第二就是說大案他們其實也通常都會來那就是說這個事情發生之後呢檢方既然說我們沒有通知其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知只是說有些呢就沒有通知因為檢察官前提他已經知道嘛那如果說認為這個地方我們要改善就是以後我們全面就全部通通都通知以上報告\n\n10:04.429 --> 10:30.606\n那所以就是說當天要做了一個裁定檢方當然知道今天院方他會去做一個那個裁定那往後因為這個程序還在走所以說這個裁定是什麼檢察官他當然是會知道的那1306條的規定就是說院方他一定都會就是當庭去做一個宣示這個裁定已經做出來了嘛那做出來之後檢察官從這個10點開始他也是可以提抗告的\n\n10:31.545 --> 10:56.814\n那社長你看講法要跟你不同來他裁定宣誓是對外生效沒有錯但是宣誓因為這個案子講得沒有道理他不曉得裁定的理由跟裁定的內容嘛他沒有裁定他不知道理由他如何進行抗告除非他就一律的抗告啦我比較在意的其實不是這個啦你們都\n\n10:58.018 --> 11:12.265\n比較本位立場啦其實我聽起來也都有道理啦但問題就是說社會大眾不是這樣看啦社會大眾不會這樣看啦社會大眾一定把你們兩個的講法就是你們是呼嘌皮球啦社會大眾認為你們這樣欸不然都沒有人錯很多事情確實沒有人錯喔但問題緩解你怎麼樣去補這樣的一個漏洞\n\n11:20.988 --> 11:43.813\n這第一個第二個我為什麼要請海巡跟這個呃漁民署上來的原因就是說你像譬如說我們一般財務案件你說啊你就欠稅你不叫欸我這個行政院處這個地方就跟你說你這個限制出境限制出境還有出海那一般這種情況的話你們海巡接到這樣子的話你們是怎麼處理啊\n\n11:45.732 --> 12:11.889\n跟委員報告就是有關處分機關做出的限制出境海處分那本署接獲通知之後會立即由本署的偵防分署在安檢知識系統裡面書件那提供所屬來做一個查詢那如果是是啦我的意思說已經到海邊了現在到海邊了你看到了你們怎麼處理我們會告知原處分機關那禁止這個當事對象來出海\n\n12:13.052 --> 12:30.049\n禁止對象出海就是說你不能處理這樣就沒有其他任何處分了你們就是阻擋你不要給我出去有沒有其他動作都沒有然後另外會通知原處分機關通知原處分機關原處分機關你們碰到他都怎麼處理他都怎麼處理\n\n12:37.659 --> 12:49.814\n也譬如說行政執行處我們跟你們說這個人就欠稅了不能處理他們來到海邊你們在巡邏你給他通知有一個人在這個地方他欠稅的他不能出去的那他通知你們接下來怎麼處理\n\n12:50.834 --> 13:09.939\n他們會到現場嗎不會吧原主任機關未必會到現場那有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象他不可以出海就只告訴他不可以出海而已那請問移民署移民署你們怎麼處理飛機要飛出去的到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣委員好\n\n13:10.379 --> 13:36.840\n如果我們收到行政機關或是司軍法機關的那個限制出境的命令那原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候我們也是一語攔阻攔阻是一定攔阻我說你們用什麼樣的處分的方式原則上如果他不能出境的情況之下我們會看後續之前那個司軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記希望我們做什麼樣的動作你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎你們就是開書面\n\n13:39.022 --> 14:03.764\n那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣這也怪喔我現在變成這種限制出境跟出海的部分海巡跟移民署的做法就不同啦你們移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說你已經限制出境出海了所以你不能出境交給他憑什麼給他照反而海巡的做法又不一樣了他會去通知原機關然後等他的指示看要怎麼做處理\n\n14:06.631 --> 14:23.926\n跟委員補充報告一下因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單通知單裡面會跟當事人告知說是哪個機關來禁止他出境那後續的處置的部分我們會依個\n\n14:25.848 --> 14:47.587\n禁止出境的機關給我們的指示如果他需要電告那我們就會用電告的方式如果當事人是需要我們留置那我們就會就留置的方式請該等行政機關來做處理好我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長就是說你像一般我們做限制出境的話像譬如說限制出境搭飛機的一定要護照嘛\n\n14:48.368 --> 15:06.317\n那限制出境我看今天羅志強委員他也提了一個案子啦我都這個蠻有創意的你像譬如說你說限制出境了那我法院可以把你限制出境啦我有這個權限把你限制出境啦我乾脆把你這個護照給註銷啦我覺得這倒也不錯的一個思考的方式我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n15:07.350 --> 15:18.028\n我們司法院是贊同的因為目前的那個因為目前那個我們在那個報告上有講就是說\n\n15:21.909 --> 15:49.114\n那個現行的那個行政作業上就是說外交部他們本來就是也有就不發護照跟那個註銷那現在就是說對於註銷的這一塊呢就是說把它放到那個116之二讓它作為就是停止羈押一個替代那個處分這個是可行的那這個等於是跟就是說他們外交部他們所做等於是那個多重的一個行政處分嘛\n\n15:49.594 --> 16:15.162\n那這個我們認為是可行而且是有效的我也認為是有效所以羅志祥這個案子我準備給你支持但是最後的一個叮嚀就是說願檢其實像已經接二連三出現這樣的一個狀況常常讓檢察官用說我沒有收到裁定這個不是辦法啦再出現一次再出現一次每一次出現\n\n16:17.216 --> 16:44.008\n民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣啊你們想的是各自的是誰的一個理由到最後可能會有究責的問題嘛這到底問題點出在哪裡搞不好都嚴不爽民眾的想法就是啊是不是又偷偷放人了這個對司法的信賴多會減損啊你們還是要想個辦法院檢之間看怎麼樣有一個聯繫或者研擬出一個你們共同看怎麼樣把這個\n\n16:46.749 --> 16:51.047\n動把它給補起來我覺得這個不要開玩笑啦好不好可以喔好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.576,"end":30.558,"text":"謝謝張偉,有請我們司法院副秘書長還有我們服務部的黃次長麻煩副秘書長移民署還有海巡署都有到,請上來一下好不好我想先請教黃次長,你跟我們"},{"start":32.977,"end":47.679,"text":"這個王富密其實都食物界非常有經驗的人但是我今天要特別來請教就是說最近竹北健身教練這個案子我相信劣童案你們應該很清楚"},{"start":49.042,"end":67.419,"text":"又跑掉了 這本來在2月5號啊 說裁定300萬交保那3月份的時候啊 發現沒有到庭以後 發現已經棄保潛逃我有一個很大的一個感慨啦 就是說法院在做這樣子的 在這種接押庭的時候啊一般來講的話 應該都會通知檢察官立庭嘛"},{"start":72.165,"end":88.871,"text":"市長不是這樣子嗎監察庭法律沒有規定必須要通知檢察官來力挺我們陷阱法上沒有規定是那所以說檢察官也未必會到實務上其實檢察官都會力挺如果有通知我們應該會到不通知的案例多不多"},{"start":90.231,"end":103.833,"text":"不通知檢察官他就沒有辦法,也許他主動知道當然可以,也許他不知道他可能就沒有辦法倒庭所以這個案子就怪啦這個案子就變成說在接家庭的時候檢察官沒有立庭"},{"start":105.08,"end":130.288,"text":"那法院他當然他有這個權利說這個預知被告多少金額來做交保嘛那這個案子是三百萬嘛我們就不談個案啦就說像這種案子三百萬交保以後那人跑掉啦到最後你說通知開庭的時候人跑掉啦那檢察官再去講說啊我沒有收到這個裁定啊所以我無從抗告啊那你會覺得這樣檢察官的這樣子抗辯的講法說法通嗎"},{"start":132.209,"end":157.211,"text":"跟委員報告啦我們對法院的強制處分他基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟嘛那抗告當然檢察官要抗告全體他要審酌抗告有沒有抗告有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由他才有辦法提起抗告嘛那如果說法檢察官他沒有收到裁定書雖然這個裁定書對他宣示他可以提起抗告但畢竟沒有理由對檢察官來講他事實上他是事實上他的無從提起"},{"start":158.312,"end":175.852,"text":"你這樣講也未必是一個全貌實務上哪是這樣 實務上有時候常常這個當庭法官就預支多少錢 被告多少錢 交保以後你檢察官沒有收到裁定書 你知道了以後其實抗告跟上訴一樣也不一定要具體理由我先不付理由我都可以抗告啊"},{"start":176.652,"end":197.985,"text":"那跟那個前提是檢察官他有到場來執行公訴的前提之下所以這個案子又神不知鬼不覺檢察官又不知道啦人就這樣被給放走了那當然也未必講說法官他主觀上就是刻意要去放人也許他整個事實他認為是300萬交保本來就是很合理的啊他要跑到也不知道啊但重點我為什麼要這樣問呢就是跟前面啊"},{"start":200.851,"end":226.91,"text":"又發生一個中文字案嘛本來就是一個科技監控那現在就變成也是說檢察官沒有收到裁定那現在法院預支一定的金額交保以後那跑掉了以後檢察官的講法也是又說我又沒有收到裁定這就變成說到底這個制度裡面有沒有什麼樣的一個破洞在這個地方你像譬如說科技監控的部分我到現在還沒有搞清楚"},{"start":227.967,"end":253.355,"text":"我到現在還沒搞清楚我兩三個禮拜到法官學院的時候我特地去詢問了一下我也跟你們法界的人討論了一下我到現在還是搞不清楚就是說你像比如說實質科技監控某某某科技監控有預知科技監控一定有一段的時間嘛對不對那科技監控完以後我說把這個電子腳療我要把它給放掉把它給拿掉"},{"start":254.332,"end":279.839,"text":"就解除他的科技監控法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控那我們實務上就是你要有電子腳療的話你腳上有戴一個啊不可能法官自己去把它給拆除掉啊一定有人把它拆除掉啊那假設說我我是那個我們現在在執行的科技監控的人到底是誰啊"},{"start":281.051,"end":305.592,"text":"各位我們在四星電子組有設一個科共中心對 我知道高電子組有科共中心我說實際上要把那個角料拿掉的是誰啊科共中心有專門技術人員會去是技術人員那總要有人給他下令啊他就是這樣子啊如果他科技監控有一定期間嘛如果期間到了不延期在期間到前十天我們科共中心就開始通知法官你要不要延"},{"start":306.67,"end":332.982,"text":"如果時間到了還沒有因為沒有接下來延長的裁定了嘛他就不能夠再繼續擴控時間到了放人很合理啦時間到了放人很合理那我的意思就是說那你時間還沒到那我法官說下個裁定說你這個解除某某某的科技監控那總會你們是用開案的系統是不是對 他有一個系統好 那麼系統進去了以後那也不可能那一個執行人員直接他受到這樣的一個命令啊"},{"start":335.138,"end":357.989,"text":"你們都不用有任何一個書面或者說電子的公文都不用他如果裁定要科技監控當然他要有一個科技監控的命令書這些命令書給科工中心一定要有所以說嘛所以說你像比如說中文字案嘛你法官說要解除這個科技監控你要一個命令書嗎"},{"start":359.665,"end":364.98,"text":"他這個不是 他是不延長 這個個案他是不延長時間到了就不延長"},{"start":366.394,"end":391.957,"text":"他時間到不延長所以他沒有另外的一個書面出來了就像我們羈押 羈押時間到了你沒有再一個延長羈押那你檢方哪有可能不知道 檢方一定知道啊高檢署一定知道啊因為他是法院直接通知客控中心的直接通知客控中心喔對 他是直接 高檢署法官 他直接高院他直接 不是高檢署 高院跟科技中心聯繫因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的"},{"start":392.657,"end":402.917,"text":"那所以沈理中高院下這個裁定他直接通知 其實就是一個裁定嘛他直接通知客控中心說中文字放人是這樣子嗎"},{"start":406.684,"end":427.379,"text":"他放不放人 他因為 他沒有被羈押他科工中心這個人沒有被羈押 沒有放人的問題不是 解除科技監控啦 解除科技監控啦各位爸爸 他如果不延長的話 時間到了就不能夠不 不 我的意思是總要有人把他解除掉當然 當然那你不可能唸咒語說好好好 解除掉 不可能啦"},{"start":427.699,"end":448.829,"text":"他到Deadline的前一天或Deadline的前一天我們的技術人員通常會約到法院的特定住所去做解除的動作所以你們的技術一定要一個技術人員把他給繳聊電子繳聊把他給解除嘛所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去把他解除的啊他收到誰的命令啊"},{"start":450.068,"end":465.542,"text":"法院啊法院直接喔對因為審理中就是直接直接法院對對科控中心了啊所以這件就跟你們高檢署就無關喔因為他不延長他其實其實跟這件哇那就無頭公案啊那那像這種案子你像譬如說呃"},{"start":467.918,"end":474.24,"text":"在審理當中你檢察官 法官在借押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官立庭那檢察官事後 人跑掉了以後大家都不逃公安法官說我本來就是我獨立審判我認為三百萬本來就是合理的啊我認為三百萬一般案件的話你說我要保全被告或者我整個程序的進行三百萬是合理的"},{"start":494.346,"end":502.22,"text":"常常會出現這樣的一個不可能每個案子都是羈押嘛那你也不能講法官是什麼那檢察官又說我沒有收到裁定那像這種案件你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點"},{"start":508.206,"end":526.287,"text":"當然根據委員報告啦 檢察官他要監督法院的所做的裁定當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟嘛是嘛 那前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定而且付理由他才有辦法救濟副秘書長有沒有什麼樣的 別有這個案齁每天都要拼一件"},{"start":527.509,"end":543.375,"text":"補一支中文字 補一支竹筆內通這個司法現在真的會有減損就是我們司法院立場我們一定會深自檢討但是我要跟委員講一下這背景就是說偵查中"},{"start":544.216,"end":558.754,"text":"結束之後檢察官決定他要起訴這個是檢察官決定的那今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押他今天要到法院來事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來所以那一天要進到法院的時候檢察官他是知道"},{"start":559.335,"end":576.2,"text":"今天檢察官要法官要決定就是這個疑審程序有沒有他要決定這個所以我們實務上過去呢我們都尊重就是說因為檢察官他本來就知道了嘛知道說今天會開這個那個結壓程序那我們都是尊重說檢察官因為"},{"start":576.94,"end":603.649,"text":"坦白講因為大家真的太忙了大家負擔太重所以就尊重他他們來不來第一個他們是知道的那第二就是說大案他們其實也通常都會來那就是說這個事情發生之後呢檢方既然說我們沒有通知其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知只是說有些呢就沒有通知因為檢察官前提他已經知道嘛那如果說認為這個地方我們要改善就是以後我們全面就全部通通都通知以上報告"},{"start":604.429,"end":630.606,"text":"那所以就是說當天要做了一個裁定檢方當然知道今天院方他會去做一個那個裁定那往後因為這個程序還在走所以說這個裁定是什麼檢察官他當然是會知道的那1306條的規定就是說院方他一定都會就是當庭去做一個宣示這個裁定已經做出來了嘛那做出來之後檢察官從這個10點開始他也是可以提抗告的"},{"start":631.545,"end":656.814,"text":"那 社長 你看 講法要跟你不同來他裁定 宣誓是對外生效沒有錯但是 宣誓因為這個案子講得沒有道理他不曉得裁定的理由跟裁定的內容嘛他沒有裁定 他不知道理由他如何進行抗告 除非他就一律的抗告啦我比較在意的其實不是這個啦 你們都"},{"start":658.018,"end":672.265,"text":"比較本位立場啦 其實我聽起來也都有道理啦但問題就是說 社會大眾不是這樣看啦社會大眾不會這樣看啦社會大眾一定把你們兩個的講法就是你們是呼嘌皮球啦社會大眾認為你們這樣 欸 不然都沒有人錯很多事情確實沒有人錯喔但問題緩解你怎麼樣去補這樣的一個漏洞"},{"start":680.988,"end":703.813,"text":"這第一個 第二個我為什麼要請海巡跟這個 呃 漁民署上來的原因就是說你像譬如說 我們一般財務案件 你說啊你就欠稅 你不叫欸 我這個行政院處這個地方 就跟你說 你這個限制出境限制出境 還有出海那一般這種情況的話 你們海巡接到這樣子的話 你們是怎麼處理啊"},{"start":705.732,"end":731.889,"text":"跟委員報告就是有關處分機關做出的限制出境海處分那本署接獲通知之後會立即由本署的偵防分署在安檢知識系統裡面書件那提供所屬來做一個查詢那如果是 是啦我的意思說已經到海邊了 現在到海邊了你看到了你們怎麼處理我們會告知原處分機關那禁止這個當事對象來出海"},{"start":733.052,"end":750.049,"text":"禁止對象出海 就是說你不能處理這樣就沒有其他任何處分了你們就是阻擋你不要給我出去有沒有其他動作 都沒有然後另外會通知原處分機關通知原處分機關原處分機關你們碰到他都怎麼處理他都怎麼處理"},{"start":757.659,"end":769.814,"text":"也譬如說行政執行處我們跟你們說這個人就欠稅了 不能處理他們來到海邊 你們在巡邏你給他通知有一個人在這個地方他欠稅的 他不能出去的那他通知你們接下來怎麼處理"},{"start":770.834,"end":789.939,"text":"他們會到現場嗎 不會吧原主任機關未必會到現場那有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象他不可以出海就只告訴他不可以出海而已那請問移民署移民署你們怎麼處理飛機要飛出去的到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣委員好"},{"start":790.379,"end":816.84,"text":"如果我們收到行政機關或是司軍法機關的那個限制出境的命令那原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候我們也是一語攔阻攔阻是一定攔阻我說你們用什麼樣的處分的方式原則上如果他不能出境的情況之下我們會看後續之前那個司軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記希望我們做什麼樣的動作你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎你們就是開書面"},{"start":819.022,"end":843.764,"text":"那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣這也怪喔我現在變成這種限制出境跟出海的部分海巡跟移民署的做法就不同啦你們移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說你已經限制出境出海了所以你不能出境 交給他 憑什麼給他照反而海巡的做法又不一樣了他會去通知原機關然後等他的指示看要怎麼做處理"},{"start":846.631,"end":863.926,"text":"跟委員補充報告一下因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單通知單裡面會跟當事人告知說是哪個機關來禁止他出境那後續的處置的部分我們會依個"},{"start":865.848,"end":887.587,"text":"禁止出境的機關給我們的指示如果他需要電告那我們就會用電告的方式如果當事人是需要我們留置那我們就會就留置的方式請該等行政機關來做處理好 我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長就是說你像一般我們做限制出境的話像譬如說限制出境搭飛機的一定要護照嘛"},{"start":888.368,"end":906.317,"text":"那限制出境 我看今天羅志強委員他也提了一個案子啦我都這個蠻有創意的 你像譬如說你說限制出境了 那我法院可以把你限制出境啦我有這個權限把你限制出境啦 我乾脆把你這個護照給註銷啦我覺得這倒也不錯的一個思考的方式 我不知道你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":907.35,"end":918.028,"text":"我們司法院是贊同的因為目前的那個因為目前那個我們在那個報告上有講就是說"},{"start":921.909,"end":949.114,"text":"那個現行的那個行政作業上就是說外交部他們本來就是也有就不發護照跟那個註銷那現在就是說對於註銷的這一塊呢就是說把它放到那個116之二讓它作為就是停止羈押一個替代那個處分這個是可行的那這個等於是跟就是說他們外交部他們所做等於是那個多重的一個行政處分嘛"},{"start":949.594,"end":975.162,"text":"那這個我們認為是可行而且是有效的我也認為是有效所以羅志祥這個案子我準備給你支持但是最後的一個叮嚀就是說願檢其實像已經接二連三出現這樣的一個狀況常常讓檢察官用說我沒有收到裁定這個不是辦法啦再出現一次再出現一次每一次出現"},{"start":977.216,"end":1004.008,"text":"民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣啊你們想的是各自的是誰的一個理由到最後可能會有究責的問題嘛這到底問題點出在哪裡搞不好都嚴不爽民眾的想法就是 啊是不是又偷偷放人了這個對司法的信賴多會減損啊你們還是要想個辦法院檢之間看怎麼樣有一個聯繫或者研擬出一個你們共同看怎麼樣把這個"},{"start":1006.749,"end":1011.047,"text":"動把它給補起來我覺得這個不要開玩笑啦好不好可以喔 好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":491,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時29分）謝謝召委，有請司法院副秘書長及法務部黃次長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長及次長。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早。"],["黃次長謀信：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：請移民署及海巡署的代表也上來一下，好不好？","先請教黃次長，你跟王副秘在實務界都是非常有經驗的人，今天要特別請教有關最近竹北健身教練的案件，我相信你們應該很清楚這個虐童案，犯嫌又跑掉了，本來在2月5日已裁定300萬元交保，在3月份沒有到庭時，才發現他已經棄保潛逃，我有一個很大的感慨，就是法院在開這種覊押庭的時候，一般來講，應該都會通知檢察官蒞庭嘛！次長，不是這樣子嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：法律沒有規定覊押庭必須要通知檢察官來蒞庭，我們現行法上沒有規定。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，所以檢察官也未必會到，實務上，其實檢察官都會蒞庭。"],["黃次長謀信：如果有通知，我們應該會到。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不通知的案例多不多？"],["黃次長謀信：不通知檢察官，他就沒有辦法，也許他主動知道當然可以，也許他不知道可能就沒有辦法到庭。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以這個案子就怪了，就變成在覊押庭的時候檢察官沒有蒞庭，當然法院有權力諭知被告多少金額來作交保，這個案子是300萬元嘛！我們就不談個案，像這種案子裁定300萬元交保後，到最後通知開庭的時候人跑掉了，檢察官再去講說：我沒有收到這個裁定，所以無從抗告。你覺得檢察官這樣抗辯的講法及說法通嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，我們對法院的強制處分，基本上是透過抗告制度去救濟，當然檢察官要抗告，前提是他要審酌有沒有裁定書或裁定書的理由，他才有辦法提起抗告，如果檢察官沒有收到裁定書，雖然這個裁定書有對外宣示，他可以提起抗告，但是畢竟沒有理由，對檢察官來講，事實上他是無從提起抗告。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你這樣講也未必是全貌，實務上哪是這樣？實務上常常是法官當庭就諭知被告多少錢交保，檢察官沒有收到裁定書，但是他知道了以後，其實抗告跟上訴一樣，也不一定要有具體理由，現在不附理由都可以抗告啊！"],["黃次長謀信：對，那是在檢察官有到場來實行公訴的前提之下。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以這個案子就神不知鬼不覺，檢察官又不知道，人就這樣被放走了，當然也未必是法官主觀上刻意要去放人，也許他衡量整個事實，認為300萬交保本來就是很合理的，他要跑掉我也不知道，但重點是我為什麼要這樣問？就是前面發生過鍾文智案，本來就是科技監控，法院諭知一定的金額交保，當事人跑掉以後，檢察官的講法也是沒有收到裁定，這就變成這個制度裡面是不是有什麼樣的破洞在。比如科技監控，我到現在還沒搞清楚，兩、三個禮拜前我到法官學院，特地去詢問了一下，也跟你們法界的人討論了一下，但我到現在還是搞不清楚，比如實施科技監控，諭知科技監控一定有一段的時間，那科技監控完以後，要把電子腳鐐拿掉，解除他的科技監控，法官說要解除科技監控就可以解除科技監控，但是實務上你腳上有戴電子腳鐐的話，法官不可能自己去拆除，一定要有人把它拆除掉，請問現在在執行科技監控的人到底是誰？"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，我們在士林地檢署有設一個科控中心。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對，我知道高檢署有科控中心，我說實際上要把那個腳鐐拿掉的是誰？"],["黃次長謀信：科控中心有專門的技術人員會去執行。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是技術人員？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那總要有人給他下令啊！"],["黃次長謀信：就是這樣子，科技監控有一定期間，如果時間到了不延期，在期間到的前10天，科控中心就會開始通知法官，問要不要延，如果時間到了還沒有延，因為沒有接下來延長的裁定，他就不能夠再繼續科控了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：時間到了放人很合理啦，我的意思是時間還沒到，但法官下個裁定，解除某某某的科技監控，你們是用開案的系統，是不是？"],["黃次長謀信：對，它有一個系統。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，那進入系統以後，也不可能是執行人員直接收到這樣的命令啊！你們都不用有任何一個書面或電子公文？都不用？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，法官如果裁定要科技監控，當然要有一個科技監控的命令書給科控中心，一定要有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以，比如鍾文智，法官說要解除科技監控，要有一個命令書嘛！"],["黃次長謀信：這個個案是不延長，時間到了就不延長，所以他沒有另外一個書面出來，就像羈押時間到了，沒有延長羈押，當然檢察官……"],["莊委員瑞雄：那檢方哪有可能不知道？檢方一定知道啊！高檢署一定知道。"],["黃次長謀信：不會，因為是法院直接通知科控中心。"],["莊委員瑞雄：直接通知科控中心？"],["黃次長謀信：高院直接跟科控中心聯繫，因為審理中的強制處分是法官做的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以審理中高院下這個裁定，直接通知科控中心說放鍾文智，是這樣嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：因為他沒有被羈押，這個人沒有被羈押，所以沒有放人的問題。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不是，是解除科技監控。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，他如果不延長的話，時間到了就不能夠……"],["莊委員瑞雄：不，我的意思就是總要有人把它解除掉。"],["黃次長謀信：當然。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你不可能唸咒語就解除了啊。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，到deadline的前一天或deadline那天，我們的技術人員就會到，通常會約到法院的特定處所去做解除的動作。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以一定要有一個技術人員把他的電子腳鐐解除嘛！"],["黃次長謀信：當然。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以這個解除的人到底是誰叫他去解除的？他收到誰的命令？"],["黃次長謀信：法院啊！"],["莊委員瑞雄：法院直接喔？"],["黃次長謀信：對，因為審理中就是法院直接對科控中心了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以這件就跟你們高檢署無關囉？"],["黃次長謀信：因為他不延長，其實這件……"],["莊委員瑞雄：哇！那就無頭公案了。像這種案子，譬如在審理當中，法官在羈押庭的時候沒有通知檢察官蒞庭，事後人跑掉了，就無頭公案了！法官說我本來就是獨立審判，我認為300萬交保本來就是合理的，一般案件如果要保全被告，整個程序的進行，300萬是合理的，常常會出現這樣的狀況，不可能每一個案子都是羈押嘛，你也不能講法官什麼，那檢察官又說他沒有收到裁定，像這種案件，你們認為有沒有什麼樣的方法會比較好一點？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，檢察官要監督法院所作的裁定，當然就是對裁定本身提起救濟。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是嘛。"],["黃次長謀信：前提是檢察官要知道這個裁定，而且附理由，他才有辦法救濟。"],["莊委員瑞雄：副秘書長，有沒有什麼樣的方法，不要讓這種案子常常發生？一下爆一件鍾文智案，一下爆一件竹北虐童案，這個司法信賴真的會有所減損。"],["王副秘書長梅英：報告委員，是，我們司法院的立場是我們一定會深自檢討，但是我要跟委員講一下這個背景，就是偵查結束之後，檢察官決定要起訴，這是檢察官決定的，今天這個人事實上本來在偵查中押，他今天要到法院來，事實上這個押票也是檢方開出來，所以那一天要進到法院的時候，檢察官是知道今天法官要就移審程序作決定，所以過去實務上我們都尊重，因為檢察官本來就知道了，知道今天會開接押程序，我們都是尊重檢察官，坦白講因為大家真的太忙了，大家負擔都太重，所以就尊重他們來不來，第一個他們是知道的，第二就是大案，他們其實也通常都會來。這個事情發生之後，檢方說我們沒有通知，其實很多法院跟很多法官都還是會通知，只是說有些就沒有通知，因為前提是檢察官已經知道了，如果認為這個地方我們要改善，那以後我們就全部都通知。就是說當天要作裁定，檢方當然知道今天院方會去作那個裁定，因為這個程序還在走，所以這個裁定是什麼，檢察官當然是會知道的。依第三百零六條的規定，院方一定都會當庭去作一個宣示，這個裁定已經作出來了，檢察官從這個時點開始，也是可以提抗告的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這樣，次長，你看講法又跟你不同了。"],["黃次長謀信：沒有，跟委員報告，他裁定宣示是對外生效沒有錯，但是這個案子檢察官沒有蒞庭，他不曉得裁定的理由跟內容，他不知道理由，如何進行抗告？除非他就一律的抗告啦。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我比較在意的其實不是這個，你們都比較本位立場，其實我聽起來也都有道理，但問題就是社會大眾不是這樣看。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：社會大眾不會這樣看，社會大眾一定認為你們兩個的講法是你們互踢皮球。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：社會大眾會認為你們這樣，不然，都沒有人錯。很多事情確實沒有人錯喔，但問題是你怎麼樣去補這樣一個漏洞？這是第一個。第二個我為什麼要請海巡署跟移民署上來？譬如一般的財務案件，欠稅不繳，行政執行署就跟你說限制出境、出海，一般這種情況，你們海巡接到這樣的通知後是怎麼處理的？"],["廖組長德聖：跟委員報告，有關處分機關作出的限制出境處分，本署接獲通知之後，會立即由本署偵防分署在安檢資訊系統裡面輸件，提供所屬來查詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦，我的意思是假設已經到海邊了，你們看到了，你們怎麼處理？"],["廖組長德聖：我們會告知原處分機關，禁止當事對象出海。"],["莊委員瑞雄：禁止對象出海？"],["廖組長德聖：對、對、對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：就是說你不能出去這樣而已？"],["廖組長德聖：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：就沒有其他任何處分了？你們就是阻擋，說你不要出去，有沒有其他動作？都沒有？"],["廖組長德聖：另外會通知原處分機關。"],["莊委員瑞雄：通知原處分機關？"],["廖組長德聖：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：碰到這種事原處分機關都怎麼處理？譬如說，行政執行署說這個人欠稅，不能出去。當他來到海邊，你們海巡通知它說，有一個人在這個地方，他欠稅，他不能出去。那你們接下來怎麼處理？他們會到現場嗎？不會吧？"],["廖組長德聖：原處分機關未必會到現場，有時候會透過電話的方式告知這個對象，他不可以出海。"],["莊委員瑞雄：就只是告訴他不可以出海而已嘛！"],["廖組長德聖：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：請問移民署你們怎麼處理？對於要搭飛機飛出去的，到那個地方你們的處理方式是怎麼樣？"],["簡專門委員聰洲：委員好。如果我們收到行政機關或是司、軍法機關限制出境的命令，原則上如果當事人到了國境線上的時候，我們也是予以攔阻。"],["莊委員瑞雄：攔阻是一定攔阻，我是問你們用什麼樣的處分方式？"],["簡專門委員聰洲：原則上，如果他不能出境的情況之下，我們會看之前司、軍法機關有沒有做特別的註記，希望我們做什麼樣的動作。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們不是都開個書面給他而已嗎？"],["簡專門委員聰洲：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們就是開書面，那為什麼海巡的方式就跟你們不一樣？這很怪喔！現在就變成限制出境跟出海的部分，海巡跟移民署的作法不同，移民署就是直接開一張書面跟他說「你已經被限制出境、出海了，所以你不能出境」，交給他之後，他摸摸鼻子走了這樣而已。反而海巡的作法又不一樣，它會去通知原機關，然後等原機關的指示看要怎麼做處理。"],["簡專門委員聰洲：跟委員補充報告一下，因為我們在國境線上一攔阻的時候，我們會應當事人的要求開禁止出境的通知單，通知單裡面會跟當事人告知是哪個機關禁止他出境。那後續的處置部分，我們會依各禁止出境的機關給我們的指示，如果它希望電告，那我們就會用電告的方式；如果當事人是需要我們留置，那我們就會採留置的方式，等行政機關來做處理。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，我最後一個問題要請教副秘書長，一般我們做限制出境的話，比如說要搭飛機的，一定要護照嘛！我看今天羅智強委員也提了一個案子，我倒覺得這個蠻有創意的，比如說，法院有權限可以把你限制出境，但我乾脆把你的護照註銷，我覺得這也是一個不錯的思考方式，我不曉得你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我們司法院是贊同的，我們在報告上有講，在現行的行政作業上，外交部本來也有不發護照跟註銷的作法，現在就是把註銷這一塊放到第一百十六條之二，讓它作為停止羈押的一個替代處分，這個是可行的，這個跟外交部他們所做的等於是多重的行政處分，我們認為這是可行而且是有效的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我也認為是有效的，所以羅智強這個案子我準備支持，但是最後的一個叮嚀是，院、檢已經接二連三出現這樣的狀況，常常讓檢察官用他沒有收到裁定為理由，這個不是辦法啦！再出現一次、再出現一次，每一次出現，民眾的想法跟你們想的不一樣，你們想的是各自的理由，因為到最後可能會有究責的問題，到底問題點出在哪裡，到最後都驗不到傷。而民眾的想法是你們是不是又偷偷放人了，所以對司法的信賴都會減損，你們還是要想個辦法，院、檢之間看怎麼樣聯繫，或者你們共同研擬看怎麼樣把這個洞補起來，我覺得這個不要開玩笑啦！好不好？"],["王副秘書長梅英：好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：可以喔！謝謝。"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員。","下一位請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-11","speakers":["吳宗憲","羅智強","王義川","陳培瑜","黃國昌","沈發惠","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","林淑芬"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員羅智強等25 人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案、\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員陳\n培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員陳亭妃等16人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十九條及第四百五十一條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員許智\n傑等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十一條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144301_00001"}}}