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00:00:54,978\n有就有沒有就沒有不要在那邊模擬兩可這樣會影響委員在整個答詢過程當中會有錯誤的判斷這是我良心的建議第二個我看今天所有提案的14個包括我們行政驗版\n\n3\n00:00:55,987 --> 00:01:12,409\n大家所有治安的方向都非常正確了只是現在委員是站在民意機關看到整個基層所需要的東西所以\n\n4\n00:01:13,769 --> 00:01:28,517\n大方向都沒有問題只是一些修法的文字納入這是非常重要所以我要請教部長在這裡既然方向一致\n\n5\n00:01:29,537 --> 00:01:43,550\n只是在整個細節的部分我很冒昧的請教部長到底你們有沒有針對這些委員所提案的東西有沒有做一個綜合歸納跟\n\n6\n00:01:46,161 --> 00:02:14,570\n委員來做溝通文字如何修認為有可能就像我台灣民眾黨提出來就是我們現在行政院版裡面不一樣的就是我們希望扣大納入管理但是行政院只有政府機關所以在這個部分我不曉得部長有沒有責成屬下之人然後\n\n7\n00:02:15,490 --> 00:02:33,085\n有沒有去做研究跟委員說明溝通這樣下一次逐條討論會減少很多毛緩所以部長在這個部分你有沒有做這個動作我們那個有已經跟委員就是拜訪過\n\n8\n00:02:34,306 --> 00:02:54,387\n那個蠻多委員關於這條文剛剛講的那個我想那個委員講的沒錯我們方向一致那至於文字文字的修改現在也在跟我們不同版本有比較也做研析那現在也是再來就會進行一些進一步跟委員溝通那我們會確定這些文字以後在後面再進行這個二讀三讀\n\n9\n00:02:54,907 --> 00:03:21,601\n是啦部長這個直通安全啊確確實實啊我說實在的是未來是一個非常刻不容緩急迫性的一個華啦因為過去我們想做但是依華無據嘛那現在既然有這個華要修行政院也有版本立法委員也有立法委員的版本所以在這個綜合方向我在看\n\n10\n00:03:22,361 --> 00:03:50,411\n治安安全未來的發展跟監督管理是非常重要那大家也都有共識所以在這個部分我還是要因為我長期也在交通所以我每當看到我們數匯部責任重大但是方向有時候是錯誤的所以我也私底下也建議部長過很多次啦也就是我們現在這個單位看起來\n\n11\n00:03:51,531 --> 00:04:02,564\n要人沒人要錢沒有什麼錢但是責任就很重大啊所以這個部分我希望部長要加強溝通好不好加強溝通逐條討論的時候會減少很多麻煩的\n\n12\n00:04:09,392 --> 00:04:25,067\n好那另外因為我們大家都知道啦數位部有些人就認為這個沒有什麼重要性但是我認為是非常重要因為資安的發展也是你們要來資安的管理也是你們要來可是現在問題\n\n13\n00:04:26,428 --> 00:04:39,888\n科技日新月異的情況之下我們數位部就非常重要所以在這裡啊我記得我在三個月以前也就是民間的馬街醫院的問題\n\n14\n00:04:41,574 --> 00:04:56,489\n我要請問署長我已經執行三個月以前已經執行了你們針對這個醫院一連串前幾天還是有一個醫院我就感覺到很奇怪他們在竊取所有資料\n\n15\n00:04:57,210 --> 00:05:19,699\n完完全全是針對醫院有階段性喔有階段性那這些就是有計畫性的供給嘛所以我不曉得三個月以前我已經提出來我不曉得蔡署長你這裡針對所有的醫院包括馬街醫院你們做什麼處置跟做什麼做法好來署長\n\n16\n00:05:22,099 --> 00:05:41,990\n是我想謝謝委員剛剛的保貴的一個提醒跟建議那至於對這個醫院方面的相關的這個治安的保護部分那第一線是在衛福部這邊他們也做一些相關的報告你不要再推那個蔡署長我要的是你這三個月有做什麼措施緩緩嘛\n\n17\n00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:58,627\n是是謝謝委員那在治安署這部分目前我們除了在這個聯防上面的這樣這個機制協助衛護部之外那另外我們在今年的相關的這個這個資訊服務團就治安服務團裡面我們有20個單位其中有一個10個單位是醫療的這個體系來做相關的輔導跟服務的工作\n\n18\n00:06:03,172 --> 00:06:28,109\n你不要跟我說那麼多啦你如果要書面報告你私底下再提供給我我要的是你做什麼事你說那麼多是要幹什麼第一個我問你嘛你知不知道這個被確認以後這個有一些新藥品直接找病人去兜售你有沒有去掌握這些資訊我要的是這些你們到底有沒有這些像馬這醫院1600筆的資料1600萬筆喔\n\n19\n00:06:33,052 --> 00:06:58,008\n那這些病患都有這些廠商去兜售藥你有沒有掌控還有另外一個你有沒有告訴所有這些醫院的人要告知我們所有的病患我的資料被確有沒有去做防範都是說有人在給你做什麼其他的話你要小心有沒有做這些動作我要的是你這些嘛有沒有\n\n20\n00:06:58,616 --> 00:07:11,721\n跟委員報告剛剛提到的這邊就是衛護部是醫院的目的主管機關所以剛剛委員這邊提到的你有沒有督促他們做嘛是是是那衛護部有沒有嘛我都有跟衛護部這邊的資訊處這邊理事長這邊充分的請他這邊去好了我問第一題你就這樣了來保定來保定我跟你講\n\n21\n00:07:19,924 --> 00:07:38,535\n其實像這種東西就是亡羊補牢的動作要做既然被侵犯了以後那我要如何去建立建立治安的SOP這很重要啊你既然被盜的時候被破的時候那當然你要告知對方啊就舉例\n\n22\n00:07:39,575 --> 00:08:04,971\n黃部長你的資料已經那個所以你以後要小心這個部分那我們要怎麼樣去亡羊補牢你要有SOP啦保證我們說實在話知道你們人很少但是最起碼的保護措施要做嘛所以這我要說保證我是給你一個建議啦好另外一個另外一個問題不是只有醫院\n\n23\n00:08:06,999 --> 00:08:22,154\n剛剛蔡副院長已經講了包括私人最近大家比較夯的就是關稅開始的時候也就是航運這幾天也是被那個駭客攻擊喔\n\n24\n00:08:23,482 --> 00:08:38,417\n所以柏定請你來答啦蔡署長都給我答的我沒什麼鬆開啦你知道針對問題答覆我已經跟你講過了所以如果你以後要這樣答覆我坦白跟你講你就書面報告給我我就不問對不對來署長部長\n\n25\n00:08:46,363 --> 00:08:53,010\n就是航運現在也是被盜如何處理這幾天而已喔\n\n26\n00:08:55,401 --> 00:09:21,293\n好啦我跟你講啦就是這個這個有幾家現在就是醫院到完以後他現在在到航運公司的資料他們做這個我不曉得要做什麼可是最起碼任何一個犯罪行為我想法務部或什麼他們就知道犯罪一定有他的目的嘛啊不然他做什麼犯罪動作所以說委員為什麼治安法在這裡非常重要\n\n27\n00:09:21,913 --> 00:09:38,144\n是很重要扣到我們去集合這些這些單位所以目前因為這些單位我們現在那個就是對這個剛剛講這個這是交通部下面的一個是行管局的那個工作我們這個香港市長法我們同時我們可以去集合\n\n28\n00:09:51,933 --> 00:10:16,524\n他是航港局管他是航運公司管可是最起碼你要給他資訊啊這不是你監督的一部分啊我已經發現問題我告訴你這件事情要如何防範趕快未以籌謀亡羊補牢防範措施這些動作都要做欸我今天還沒有跟你談說這個如何去做補救的欸\n\n29\n00:10:17,344 --> 00:10:33,931\n如何去做什麼求產欸因為今天我們也有這種資訊保安這等等所以我還是希望部長真的啊要加油啦沒有指責的意思但是最起碼既然要修法一事到位一事把它修為更為完整\n\n30\n00:10:36,272 --> 00:11:03,079\n這是非常重要所以我剛才一開始就給你建議的收集所有資料各委員提出來的不足的部分我們接受然後有所困難的加以解說這樣主角討論才不會浪費時間這個法下來也會更完整更完善達到我們真正定定法律其目的部長所以這點我還是給你一個建議好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2291\t29535\t謝謝主席 請黃部長請部長還有蔡市長還有蔡市長好 部長早我想首先我有兩點小建議第一個我還是要建議部長就是所屬所有人上台在答詢的時候用語要精準\n30680\t54978\t有就有 沒有就沒有不要在那邊模擬兩可這樣會影響委員在整個答詢過程當中會有錯誤的判斷這是我良心的建議第二個我看今天所有提案的14個包括我們行政驗版\n55987\t72409\t大家所有治安的方向都非常正確了只是現在委員是站在民意機關看到整個基層所需要的東西所以\n73769\t88517\t大方向都沒有問題只是一些修法的文字納入這是非常重要所以我要請教部長在這裡既然方向一致\n89537\t103550\t只是在整個細節的部分我很冒昧的請教部長到底你們有沒有針對這些委員所提案的東西有沒有做一個綜合歸納跟\n106161\t134570\t委員來做溝通文字如何修認為有可能就像我台灣民眾黨提出來就是我們現在行政院版裡面不一樣的就是我們希望扣大納入管理但是行政院只有政府機關所以在這個部分我不曉得部長有沒有責成屬下之人然後\n135490\t153085\t有沒有去做研究跟委員說明溝通這樣下一次逐條討論會減少很多毛緩所以部長在這個部分你有沒有做這個動作我們那個有已經跟委員就是拜訪過\n154306\t174387\t那個蠻多委員關於這條文剛剛講的那個我想那個委員講的沒錯我們方向一致那至於文字文字的修改現在也在跟我們不同版本有比較也做研析那現在也是再來就會進行一些進一步跟委員溝通那我們會確定這些文字以後在後面再進行這個二讀三讀\n174907\t201601\t是啦 部長 這個直通安全啊 確確實實啊我說實在的 是未來是一個非常刻不容緩 急迫性的一個華啦因為過去我們想做 但是依華無據嘛那現在既然有這個華要修行政院也有版本 立法委員也有立法委員的版本所以在這個綜合方向 我在看\n202361\t230411\t治安安全未來的發展跟監督管理是非常重要那大家也都有共識所以在這個部分我還是要因為我長期也在交通所以我每當看到我們數匯部責任重大但是方向有時候是錯誤的所以我也私底下也建議部長過很多次啦也就是我們現在這個單位看起來\n231531\t242564\t要人沒人要錢沒有什麼錢但是責任就很重大啊所以這個部分我希望部長要加強溝通好不好加強溝通逐條討論的時候會減少很多麻煩的\n249392\t265067\t好那另外因為我們大家都知道啦數位部有些人就認為這個沒有什麼重要性但是我認為是非常重要因為資安的發展也是你們要來資安的管理也是你們要來可是現在問題\n266428\t279888\t科技日新月異的情況之下我們數位部就非常重要所以在這裡啊我記得我在三個月以前也就是民間的馬街醫院的問題\n281574\t296489\t我要請問署長我已經執行三個月以前已經執行了你們針對這個醫院一連串前幾天還是有一個醫院我就感覺到很奇怪他們在竊取所有資料\n297210\t319699\t完完全全是針對醫院有階段性喔有階段性那這些就是有計畫性的供給嘛所以我不曉得三個月以前我已經提出來我不曉得蔡署長你這裡針對所有的醫院包括馬街醫院你們做什麼處置跟做什麼做法好來署長\n322099\t341990\t是 我想謝謝委員剛剛的保貴的一個提醒跟建議那至於對這個醫院方面的相關的這個治安的保護部分那第一線是在衛福部這邊他們也做一些相關的報告你不要再推那個蔡署長我要的是你這三個月有做什麼措施緩緩嘛\n342930\t358627\t是是謝謝委員那在治安署這部分目前我們除了在這個聯防上面的這樣這個機制協助衛護部之外那另外我們在今年的相關的這個這個資訊服務團就治安服務團裡面我們有20個單位其中有一個10個單位是醫療的這個體系來做相關的輔導跟服務的工作\n363172\t388109\t你不要跟我說那麼多啦你如果要書面報告你私底下再提供給我我要的是你做什麼事你說那麼多是要幹什麼第一個我問你嘛你知不知道這個被確認以後這個有一些新藥品直接找病人去兜售你有沒有去掌握這些資訊我要的是這些你們到底有沒有這些像馬這醫院1600筆的資料1600萬筆喔\n393052\t418008\t那這些病患都有這些廠商去兜售藥 你有沒有掌控還有另外一個 你有沒有告訴所有這些醫院的人 要告知我們所有的病患 我的資料被確有沒有去做防範都是說 有人在給你做什麼其他的話 你要小心有沒有做這些動作 我要的是你這些嘛 有沒有\n418616\t431721\t跟委員報告剛剛提到的這邊就是衛護部是醫院的目的主管機關所以剛剛委員這邊提到的你有沒有督促他們做嘛是是是那衛護部有沒有嘛我都有跟衛護部這邊的資訊處這邊理事長這邊充分的請他這邊去好了我問第一題你就這樣了來保定來保定我跟你講\n439924\t458535\t其實像這種東西就是亡羊補牢的動作要做既然被侵犯了以後那我要如何去建立建立治安的SOP這很重要啊你既然被盜的時候被破的時候那當然你要告知對方啊就舉例\n459575\t484971\t黃部長 你的資料已經那個所以你以後要小心這個部分那我們要怎麼樣去亡羊補牢你要有SOP啦 保證我們說實在話 知道你們人很少但是最起碼的保護措施要做嘛所以這 我要說保證 我是給你一個建議啦好 另外一個 另外一個問題不是只有醫院\n486999\t502154\t剛剛蔡副院長已經講了包括私人最近大家比較夯的就是關稅開始的時候也就是航運這幾天也是被那個駭客攻擊喔\n503482\t518417\t所以 柏定 請你來答啦 蔡署長都給我答的 我沒什麼鬆開啦你知道 針對問題答覆 我已經跟你講過了所以如果你以後要這樣答覆 我坦白跟你講 你就書面報告給我 我就不問對不對 來 署長 部長\n526363\t533010\t就是航運現在也是被盜如何處理這幾天而已喔\n535401\t561293\t好啦我跟你講啦就是這個這個有幾家現在就是醫院到完以後他現在在到航運公司的資料他們做這個我不曉得要做什麼可是最起碼任何一個犯罪行為我想法務部或什麼他們就知道犯罪一定有他的目的嘛啊不然他做什麼犯罪動作所以說委員為什麼治安法在這裡非常重要\n561913\t578144\t是很重要扣到我們去集合這些這些單位所以目前因為這些單位我們現在那個就是對這個剛剛講這個這是交通部下面的一個是行管局的那個工作我們這個香港市長法我們同時我們可以去集合\n591933\t616524\t他是航港局管 他是航運公司管可是最起碼你要給他資訊啊這不是你監督的一部分啊我已經發現問題 我告訴你這件事情要如何防範趕快未以籌謀 亡羊補牢 防範措施這些動作都要做欸我今天還沒有跟你談說 這個如何去做補救的欸\n617344\t633931\t如何去做什麼求產欸因為今天我們也有這種資訊保安這等等所以我還是希望部長真的啊要加油啦沒有指責的意思但是最起碼既然要修法一事到位一事把它修為更為完整\n636272\t663079\t這是非常重要所以我剛才一開始就給你建議的收集所有資料各委員提出來的不足的部分我們接受然後有所困難的加以解說這樣主角討論才不會浪費時間這個法下來也會更完整更完善達到我們真正定定法律其目的部長所以這點我還是給你一個建議好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請黃部長請部長還有蔡市長還有蔡市長好 部長早我想首先我有兩點小建議第一個我還是要建議部長就是所屬所有人上台在答詢的時候用語要精準\n有就有 沒有就沒有不要在那邊模擬兩可這樣會影響委員在整個答詢過程當中會有錯誤的判斷這是我良心的建議第二個我看今天所有提案的14個包括我們行政驗版\n大家所有治安的方向都非常正確了只是現在委員是站在民意機關看到整個基層所需要的東西所以\n大方向都沒有問題只是一些修法的文字納入這是非常重要所以我要請教部長在這裡既然方向一致\n只是在整個細節的部分我很冒昧的請教部長到底你們有沒有針對這些委員所提案的東西有沒有做一個綜合歸納跟\n委員來做溝通文字如何修認為有可能就像我台灣民眾黨提出來就是我們現在行政院版裡面不一樣的就是我們希望扣大納入管理但是行政院只有政府機關所以在這個部分我不曉得部長有沒有責成屬下之人然後\n有沒有去做研究跟委員說明溝通這樣下一次逐條討論會減少很多毛緩所以部長在這個部分你有沒有做這個動作我們那個有已經跟委員就是拜訪過\n那個蠻多委員關於這條文剛剛講的那個我想那個委員講的沒錯我們方向一致那至於文字文字的修改現在也在跟我們不同版本有比較也做研析那現在也是再來就會進行一些進一步跟委員溝通那我們會確定這些文字以後在後面再進行這個二讀三讀\n是啦 部長 這個直通安全啊 確確實實啊我說實在的 是未來是一個非常刻不容緩 急迫性的一個華啦因為過去我們想做 但是依華無據嘛那現在既然有這個華要修行政院也有版本 立法委員也有立法委員的版本所以在這個綜合方向 我在看\n治安安全未來的發展跟監督管理是非常重要那大家也都有共識所以在這個部分我還是要因為我長期也在交通所以我每當看到我們數匯部責任重大但是方向有時候是錯誤的所以我也私底下也建議部長過很多次啦也就是我們現在這個單位看起來\n要人沒人要錢沒有什麼錢但是責任就很重大啊所以這個部分我希望部長要加強溝通好不好加強溝通逐條討論的時候會減少很多麻煩的\n好那另外因為我們大家都知道啦數位部有些人就認為這個沒有什麼重要性但是我認為是非常重要因為資安的發展也是你們要來資安的管理也是你們要來可是現在問題\n科技日新月異的情況之下我們數位部就非常重要所以在這裡啊我記得我在三個月以前也就是民間的馬街醫院的問題\n我要請問署長我已經執行三個月以前已經執行了你們針對這個醫院一連串前幾天還是有一個醫院我就感覺到很奇怪他們在竊取所有資料\n完完全全是針對醫院有階段性喔有階段性那這些就是有計畫性的供給嘛所以我不曉得三個月以前我已經提出來我不曉得蔡署長你這裡針對所有的醫院包括馬街醫院你們做什麼處置跟做什麼做法好來署長\n是 我想謝謝委員剛剛的保貴的一個提醒跟建議那至於對這個醫院方面的相關的這個治安的保護部分那第一線是在衛福部這邊他們也做一些相關的報告你不要再推那個蔡署長我要的是你這三個月有做什麼措施緩緩嘛\n是是謝謝委員那在治安署這部分目前我們除了在這個聯防上面的這樣這個機制協助衛護部之外那另外我們在今年的相關的這個這個資訊服務團就治安服務團裡面我們有20個單位其中有一個10個單位是醫療的這個體系來做相關的輔導跟服務的工作\n你不要跟我說那麼多啦你如果要書面報告你私底下再提供給我我要的是你做什麼事你說那麼多是要幹什麼第一個我問你嘛你知不知道這個被確認以後這個有一些新藥品直接找病人去兜售你有沒有去掌握這些資訊我要的是這些你們到底有沒有這些像馬這醫院1600筆的資料1600萬筆喔\n那這些病患都有這些廠商去兜售藥 你有沒有掌控還有另外一個 你有沒有告訴所有這些醫院的人 要告知我們所有的病患 我的資料被確有沒有去做防範都是說 有人在給你做什麼其他的話 你要小心有沒有做這些動作 我要的是你這些嘛 有沒有\n跟委員報告剛剛提到的這邊就是衛護部是醫院的目的主管機關所以剛剛委員這邊提到的你有沒有督促他們做嘛是是是那衛護部有沒有嘛我都有跟衛護部這邊的資訊處這邊理事長這邊充分的請他這邊去好了我問第一題你就這樣了來保定來保定我跟你講\n其實像這種東西就是亡羊補牢的動作要做既然被侵犯了以後那我要如何去建立建立治安的SOP這很重要啊你既然被盜的時候被破的時候那當然你要告知對方啊就舉例\n黃部長 你的資料已經那個所以你以後要小心這個部分那我們要怎麼樣去亡羊補牢你要有SOP啦 保證我們說實在話 知道你們人很少但是最起碼的保護措施要做嘛所以這 我要說保證 我是給你一個建議啦好 另外一個 另外一個問題不是只有醫院\n剛剛蔡副院長已經講了包括私人最近大家比較夯的就是關稅開始的時候也就是航運這幾天也是被那個駭客攻擊喔\n所以 柏定 請你來答啦 蔡署長都給我答的 我沒什麼鬆開啦你知道 針對問題答覆 我已經跟你講過了所以如果你以後要這樣答覆 我坦白跟你講 你就書面報告給我 我就不問對不對 來 署長 部長\n就是航運現在也是被盜如何處理這幾天而已喔\n好啦我跟你講啦就是這個這個有幾家現在就是醫院到完以後他現在在到航運公司的資料他們做這個我不曉得要做什麼可是最起碼任何一個犯罪行為我想法務部或什麼他們就知道犯罪一定有他的目的嘛啊不然他做什麼犯罪動作所以說委員為什麼治安法在這裡非常重要\n是很重要扣到我們去集合這些這些單位所以目前因為這些單位我們現在那個就是對這個剛剛講這個這是交通部下面的一個是行管局的那個工作我們這個香港市長法我們同時我們可以去集合\n他是航港局管 他是航運公司管可是最起碼你要給他資訊啊這不是你監督的一部分啊我已經發現問題 我告訴你這件事情要如何防範趕快未以籌謀 亡羊補牢 防範措施這些動作都要做欸我今天還沒有跟你談說 這個如何去做補救的欸\n如何去做什麼求產欸因為今天我們也有這種資訊保安這等等所以我還是希望部長真的啊要加油啦沒有指責的意思但是最起碼既然要修法一事到位一事把它修為更為完整\n這是非常重要所以我剛才一開始就給你建議的收集所有資料各委員提出來的不足的部分我們接受然後有所困難的加以解說這樣主角討論才不會浪費時間這個法下來也會更完整更完善達到我們真正定定法律其目的部長所以這點我還是給你一個建議好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.291 --> 00:29.535\n謝謝主席請黃部長請部長還有蔡市長還有蔡市長好部長早我想首先我有兩點小建議第一個我還是要建議部長就是所屬所有人上台在答詢的時候用語要精準\n\n00:30.680 --> 00:54.978\n有就有沒有就沒有不要在那邊模擬兩可這樣會影響委員在整個答詢過程當中會有錯誤的判斷這是我良心的建議第二個我看今天所有提案的14個包括我們行政驗版\n\n00:55.987 --> 01:12.409\n大家所有治安的方向都非常正確了只是現在委員是站在民意機關看到整個基層所需要的東西所以\n\n01:13.769 --> 01:28.517\n大方向都沒有問題只是一些修法的文字納入這是非常重要所以我要請教部長在這裡既然方向一致\n\n01:29.537 --> 01:43.550\n只是在整個細節的部分我很冒昧的請教部長到底你們有沒有針對這些委員所提案的東西有沒有做一個綜合歸納跟\n\n01:46.161 --> 02:14.570\n委員來做溝通文字如何修認為有可能就像我台灣民眾黨提出來就是我們現在行政院版裡面不一樣的就是我們希望扣大納入管理但是行政院只有政府機關所以在這個部分我不曉得部長有沒有責成屬下之人然後\n\n02:15.490 --> 02:33.085\n有沒有去做研究跟委員說明溝通這樣下一次逐條討論會減少很多毛緩所以部長在這個部分你有沒有做這個動作我們那個有已經跟委員就是拜訪過\n\n02:34.306 --> 02:54.387\n那個蠻多委員關於這條文剛剛講的那個我想那個委員講的沒錯我們方向一致那至於文字文字的修改現在也在跟我們不同版本有比較也做研析那現在也是再來就會進行一些進一步跟委員溝通那我們會確定這些文字以後在後面再進行這個二讀三讀\n\n02:54.907 --> 03:21.601\n是啦部長這個直通安全啊確確實實啊我說實在的是未來是一個非常刻不容緩急迫性的一個華啦因為過去我們想做但是依華無據嘛那現在既然有這個華要修行政院也有版本立法委員也有立法委員的版本所以在這個綜合方向我在看\n\n03:22.361 --> 03:50.411\n治安安全未來的發展跟監督管理是非常重要那大家也都有共識所以在這個部分我還是要因為我長期也在交通所以我每當看到我們數匯部責任重大但是方向有時候是錯誤的所以我也私底下也建議部長過很多次啦也就是我們現在這個單位看起來\n\n03:51.531 --> 04:02.564\n要人沒人要錢沒有什麼錢但是責任就很重大啊所以這個部分我希望部長要加強溝通好不好加強溝通逐條討論的時候會減少很多麻煩的\n\n04:09.392 --> 04:25.067\n好那另外因為我們大家都知道啦數位部有些人就認為這個沒有什麼重要性但是我認為是非常重要因為資安的發展也是你們要來資安的管理也是你們要來可是現在問題\n\n04:26.428 --> 04:39.888\n科技日新月異的情況之下我們數位部就非常重要所以在這裡啊我記得我在三個月以前也就是民間的馬街醫院的問題\n\n04:41.574 --> 04:56.489\n我要請問署長我已經執行三個月以前已經執行了你們針對這個醫院一連串前幾天還是有一個醫院我就感覺到很奇怪他們在竊取所有資料\n\n04:57.210 --> 05:19.699\n完完全全是針對醫院有階段性喔有階段性那這些就是有計畫性的供給嘛所以我不曉得三個月以前我已經提出來我不曉得蔡署長你這裡針對所有的醫院包括馬街醫院你們做什麼處置跟做什麼做法好來署長\n\n05:22.099 --> 05:41.990\n是我想謝謝委員剛剛的保貴的一個提醒跟建議那至於對這個醫院方面的相關的這個治安的保護部分那第一線是在衛福部這邊他們也做一些相關的報告你不要再推那個蔡署長我要的是你這三個月有做什麼措施緩緩嘛\n\n05:42.930 --> 05:58.627\n是是謝謝委員那在治安署這部分目前我們除了在這個聯防上面的這樣這個機制協助衛護部之外那另外我們在今年的相關的這個這個資訊服務團就治安服務團裡面我們有20個單位其中有一個10個單位是醫療的這個體系來做相關的輔導跟服務的工作\n\n06:03.172 --> 06:28.109\n你不要跟我說那麼多啦你如果要書面報告你私底下再提供給我我要的是你做什麼事你說那麼多是要幹什麼第一個我問你嘛你知不知道這個被確認以後這個有一些新藥品直接找病人去兜售你有沒有去掌握這些資訊我要的是這些你們到底有沒有這些像馬這醫院1600筆的資料1600萬筆喔\n\n06:33.052 --> 06:58.008\n那這些病患都有這些廠商去兜售藥你有沒有掌控還有另外一個你有沒有告訴所有這些醫院的人要告知我們所有的病患我的資料被確有沒有去做防範都是說有人在給你做什麼其他的話你要小心有沒有做這些動作我要的是你這些嘛有沒有\n\n06:58.616 --> 07:11.721\n跟委員報告剛剛提到的這邊就是衛護部是醫院的目的主管機關所以剛剛委員這邊提到的你有沒有督促他們做嘛是是是那衛護部有沒有嘛我都有跟衛護部這邊的資訊處這邊理事長這邊充分的請他這邊去好了我問第一題你就這樣了來保定來保定我跟你講\n\n07:19.924 --> 07:38.535\n其實像這種東西就是亡羊補牢的動作要做既然被侵犯了以後那我要如何去建立建立治安的SOP這很重要啊你既然被盜的時候被破的時候那當然你要告知對方啊就舉例\n\n07:39.575 --> 08:04.971\n黃部長你的資料已經那個所以你以後要小心這個部分那我們要怎麼樣去亡羊補牢你要有SOP啦保證我們說實在話知道你們人很少但是最起碼的保護措施要做嘛所以這我要說保證我是給你一個建議啦好另外一個另外一個問題不是只有醫院\n\n08:06.999 --> 08:22.154\n剛剛蔡副院長已經講了包括私人最近大家比較夯的就是關稅開始的時候也就是航運這幾天也是被那個駭客攻擊喔\n\n08:23.482 --> 08:38.417\n所以柏定請你來答啦蔡署長都給我答的我沒什麼鬆開啦你知道針對問題答覆我已經跟你講過了所以如果你以後要這樣答覆我坦白跟你講你就書面報告給我我就不問對不對來署長部長\n\n08:46.363 --> 08:53.010\n就是航運現在也是被盜如何處理這幾天而已喔\n\n08:55.401 --> 09:21.293\n好啦我跟你講啦就是這個這個有幾家現在就是醫院到完以後他現在在到航運公司的資料他們做這個我不曉得要做什麼可是最起碼任何一個犯罪行為我想法務部或什麼他們就知道犯罪一定有他的目的嘛啊不然他做什麼犯罪動作所以說委員為什麼治安法在這裡非常重要\n\n09:21.913 --> 09:38.144\n是很重要扣到我們去集合這些這些單位所以目前因為這些單位我們現在那個就是對這個剛剛講這個這是交通部下面的一個是行管局的那個工作我們這個香港市長法我們同時我們可以去集合\n\n09:51.933 --> 10:16.524\n他是航港局管他是航運公司管可是最起碼你要給他資訊啊這不是你監督的一部分啊我已經發現問題我告訴你這件事情要如何防範趕快未以籌謀亡羊補牢防範措施這些動作都要做欸我今天還沒有跟你談說這個如何去做補救的欸\n\n10:17.344 --> 10:33.931\n如何去做什麼求產欸因為今天我們也有這種資訊保安這等等所以我還是希望部長真的啊要加油啦沒有指責的意思但是最起碼既然要修法一事到位一事把它修為更為完整\n\n10:36.272 --> 11:03.079\n這是非常重要所以我剛才一開始就給你建議的收集所有資料各委員提出來的不足的部分我們接受然後有所困難的加以解說這樣主角討論才不會浪費時間這個法下來也會更完整更完善達到我們真正定定法律其目的部長所以這點我還是給你一個建議好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.291,"end":29.535,"text":"謝謝主席 請黃部長請部長還有蔡市長還有蔡市長好 部長早我想首先我有兩點小建議第一個我還是要建議部長就是所屬所有人上台在答詢的時候用語要精準"},{"start":30.68,"end":54.978,"text":"有就有 沒有就沒有不要在那邊模擬兩可這樣會影響委員在整個答詢過程當中會有錯誤的判斷這是我良心的建議第二個我看今天所有提案的14個包括我們行政驗版"},{"start":55.987,"end":72.409,"text":"大家所有治安的方向都非常正確了只是現在委員是站在民意機關看到整個基層所需要的東西所以"},{"start":73.769,"end":88.517,"text":"大方向都沒有問題只是一些修法的文字納入這是非常重要所以我要請教部長在這裡既然方向一致"},{"start":89.537,"end":103.55,"text":"只是在整個細節的部分我很冒昧的請教部長到底你們有沒有針對這些委員所提案的東西有沒有做一個綜合歸納跟"},{"start":106.161,"end":134.57,"text":"委員來做溝通文字如何修認為有可能就像我台灣民眾黨提出來就是我們現在行政院版裡面不一樣的就是我們希望扣大納入管理但是行政院只有政府機關所以在這個部分我不曉得部長有沒有責成屬下之人然後"},{"start":135.49,"end":153.085,"text":"有沒有去做研究跟委員說明溝通這樣下一次逐條討論會減少很多毛緩所以部長在這個部分你有沒有做這個動作我們那個有已經跟委員就是拜訪過"},{"start":154.306,"end":174.387,"text":"那個蠻多委員關於這條文剛剛講的那個我想那個委員講的沒錯我們方向一致那至於文字文字的修改現在也在跟我們不同版本有比較也做研析那現在也是再來就會進行一些進一步跟委員溝通那我們會確定這些文字以後在後面再進行這個二讀三讀"},{"start":174.907,"end":201.601,"text":"是啦 部長 這個直通安全啊 確確實實啊我說實在的 是未來是一個非常刻不容緩 急迫性的一個華啦因為過去我們想做 但是依華無據嘛那現在既然有這個華要修行政院也有版本 立法委員也有立法委員的版本所以在這個綜合方向 我在看"},{"start":202.361,"end":230.411,"text":"治安安全未來的發展跟監督管理是非常重要那大家也都有共識所以在這個部分我還是要因為我長期也在交通所以我每當看到我們數匯部責任重大但是方向有時候是錯誤的所以我也私底下也建議部長過很多次啦也就是我們現在這個單位看起來"},{"start":231.531,"end":242.564,"text":"要人沒人要錢沒有什麼錢但是責任就很重大啊所以這個部分我希望部長要加強溝通好不好加強溝通逐條討論的時候會減少很多麻煩的"},{"start":249.392,"end":265.067,"text":"好那另外因為我們大家都知道啦數位部有些人就認為這個沒有什麼重要性但是我認為是非常重要因為資安的發展也是你們要來資安的管理也是你們要來可是現在問題"},{"start":266.428,"end":279.888,"text":"科技日新月異的情況之下我們數位部就非常重要所以在這裡啊我記得我在三個月以前也就是民間的馬街醫院的問題"},{"start":281.574,"end":296.489,"text":"我要請問署長我已經執行三個月以前已經執行了你們針對這個醫院一連串前幾天還是有一個醫院我就感覺到很奇怪他們在竊取所有資料"},{"start":297.21,"end":319.699,"text":"完完全全是針對醫院有階段性喔有階段性那這些就是有計畫性的供給嘛所以我不曉得三個月以前我已經提出來我不曉得蔡署長你這裡針對所有的醫院包括馬街醫院你們做什麼處置跟做什麼做法好來署長"},{"start":322.099,"end":341.99,"text":"是 我想謝謝委員剛剛的保貴的一個提醒跟建議那至於對這個醫院方面的相關的這個治安的保護部分那第一線是在衛福部這邊他們也做一些相關的報告你不要再推那個蔡署長我要的是你這三個月有做什麼措施緩緩嘛"},{"start":342.93,"end":358.627,"text":"是是謝謝委員那在治安署這部分目前我們除了在這個聯防上面的這樣這個機制協助衛護部之外那另外我們在今年的相關的這個這個資訊服務團就治安服務團裡面我們有20個單位其中有一個10個單位是醫療的這個體系來做相關的輔導跟服務的工作"},{"start":363.172,"end":388.109,"text":"你不要跟我說那麼多啦你如果要書面報告你私底下再提供給我我要的是你做什麼事你說那麼多是要幹什麼第一個我問你嘛你知不知道這個被確認以後這個有一些新藥品直接找病人去兜售你有沒有去掌握這些資訊我要的是這些你們到底有沒有這些像馬這醫院1600筆的資料1600萬筆喔"},{"start":393.052,"end":418.008,"text":"那這些病患都有這些廠商去兜售藥 你有沒有掌控還有另外一個 你有沒有告訴所有這些醫院的人 要告知我們所有的病患 我的資料被確有沒有去做防範都是說 有人在給你做什麼其他的話 你要小心有沒有做這些動作 我要的是你這些嘛 有沒有"},{"start":418.616,"end":431.721,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛提到的這邊就是衛護部是醫院的目的主管機關所以剛剛委員這邊提到的你有沒有督促他們做嘛是是是那衛護部有沒有嘛我都有跟衛護部這邊的資訊處這邊理事長這邊充分的請他這邊去好了我問第一題你就這樣了來保定來保定我跟你講"},{"start":439.924,"end":458.535,"text":"其實像這種東西就是亡羊補牢的動作要做既然被侵犯了以後那我要如何去建立建立治安的SOP這很重要啊你既然被盜的時候被破的時候那當然你要告知對方啊就舉例"},{"start":459.575,"end":484.971,"text":"黃部長 你的資料已經那個所以你以後要小心這個部分那我們要怎麼樣去亡羊補牢你要有SOP啦 保證我們說實在話 知道你們人很少但是最起碼的保護措施要做嘛所以這 我要說保證 我是給你一個建議啦好 另外一個 另外一個問題不是只有醫院"},{"start":486.999,"end":502.154,"text":"剛剛蔡副院長已經講了包括私人最近大家比較夯的就是關稅開始的時候也就是航運這幾天也是被那個駭客攻擊喔"},{"start":503.482,"end":518.417,"text":"所以 柏定 請你來答啦 蔡署長都給我答的 我沒什麼鬆開啦你知道 針對問題答覆 我已經跟你講過了所以如果你以後要這樣答覆 我坦白跟你講 你就書面報告給我 我就不問對不對 來 署長 部長"},{"start":526.363,"end":533.01,"text":"就是航運現在也是被盜如何處理這幾天而已喔"},{"start":535.401,"end":561.293,"text":"好啦我跟你講啦就是這個這個有幾家現在就是醫院到完以後他現在在到航運公司的資料他們做這個我不曉得要做什麼可是最起碼任何一個犯罪行為我想法務部或什麼他們就知道犯罪一定有他的目的嘛啊不然他做什麼犯罪動作所以說委員為什麼治安法在這裡非常重要"},{"start":561.913,"end":578.144,"text":"是很重要扣到我們去集合這些這些單位所以目前因為這些單位我們現在那個就是對這個剛剛講這個這是交通部下面的一個是行管局的那個工作我們這個香港市長法我們同時我們可以去集合"},{"start":591.933,"end":616.524,"text":"他是航港局管 他是航運公司管可是最起碼你要給他資訊啊這不是你監督的一部分啊我已經發現問題 我告訴你這件事情要如何防範趕快未以籌謀 亡羊補牢 防範措施這些動作都要做欸我今天還沒有跟你談說 這個如何去做補救的欸"},{"start":617.344,"end":633.931,"text":"如何去做什麼求產欸因為今天我們也有這種資訊保安這等等所以我還是希望部長真的啊要加油啦沒有指責的意思但是最起碼既然要修法一事到位一事把它修為更為完整"},{"start":636.272,"end":663.079,"text":"這是非常重要所以我剛才一開始就給你建議的收集所有資料各委員提出來的不足的部分我們接受然後有所困難的加以解說這樣主角討論才不會浪費時間這個法下來也會更完整更完善達到我們真正定定法律其目的部長所以這點我還是給你一個建議好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":268,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（10時3分）謝謝主席，請黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林委員國成：還有蔡署長。"],["主席：還有蔡署長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["林委員國成：部長早。首先我有兩個小建議，第一個，我還是要建議部長，所屬所有人上台答詢的時候，用語要精準，有就有，沒有就沒有，不要模稜兩可，以免委員在整個詢答過程當中會有錯誤的判斷，這是我良心的建議。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員國成：第二個，我看今天所有的14個提案，包括行政院版，對資安的方向都非常正確，委員是站在民意機關的立場，看到整個基層所需要的東西，所以大方向都沒有問題，只是一些修法的文字納入，這是非常重要的。既然方向一致，只是在細節部分有所不同，我要很冒昧地請教部長，你們到底有沒有針對這些委員的提案內容做過綜合歸納，並且就文字如何修改跟委員做過溝通？就像我們台灣民眾黨提出來和行政院版不一樣的就是我們希望擴大納入管理，但是行政院版只有政府機關，所以這個部分我不曉得部長有沒有責成屬下去做研究，並跟委員說明、溝通？這樣下次逐條討論會減少很多麻煩耶！請問部長，你有沒有做這個動作？"],["黃部長彥男：有。關於這些條文，我們已經拜訪過滿多委員了。委員剛剛講得沒錯，我們方向一致，至於文字的修改，我們有針對不同的版本進行比較和研析，再來就會進一步跟委員溝通，文字確定以後，後面再進行二讀、三讀。"],["林委員國成：部長，資通安全管理法的修正確實刻不容緩，因為過去我們想做卻於法無據，既然現在要修法，行政院有版本，立法委員也有提案，在我看來，資通安全未來的發展和監督管理是非常重要的，大家也都有共識，所以在這個部分我還是要……因為我長期參加交通委員會，每當我看到數位部責任重大但方向有時候是錯誤的，我也私底下建議過部長很多次，也就是我們現在這個單位看起來要人沒人，要錢沒有什麼錢，但是責任就很重大啊！所以這個部分我希望部長要加強溝通，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們會……"],["林委員國成：這樣逐條討論的時候會減少很多麻煩。好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的意見，我們會持續跟委員討論。"],["林委員國成：好。","另外，大家都知道有些人認為數位部沒有什麼重要性，但是我認為是非常重要的，因為資安的發展也是你們要來處理、資安的管理也是你們要來處理，可是現在的問題是，在科技日新月異的情況之下，數位部就非常重要。記得我在3個月以前就針對馬偕醫院發生資安問題質詢過你們，前幾天又有一家醫院發生類似的事件，針對醫院一連串的資安問題，我就感覺很奇怪，他們竊取資料完完全全是針對醫院，而且有階段性，所以這就是有計畫的攻擊嘛！3個月以前我就提出質詢，不曉得蔡署長這邊針對所有的醫院，包括馬偕醫院，做了什麼的處置、採取了什麼做法？"],["黃部長彥男：我請蔡署長回答。"],["林委員國成：好，署長。"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員剛剛的寶貴建議，有關醫院資安的防護，第一線是在衛福部這邊，他們有做一些相關的包括……"],["林委員國成：你不要推這個！蔡署長，我要知道的是你們這3個月有採取什麼防範措施。"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員，在資安處置的部分，目前我們除了在聯防機制上面協助衛福部之外，在今年相關的資安服務團裡面有20個單位，其中10個單位是針對醫療體系來做相關的輔導跟服務的工作。"],["林委員國成：署長，你不用跟我說那麼多，如果你有書面報告，私底下再提供給我，我要你說的是你們做了什麼事，你講那麼多幹嘛！第一個，你知不知道這個被竊以後，有些新藥品的廠商直接找病人去兜售？你有沒有去掌握相關資訊？我要的是這些答案！像馬偕醫院1,600萬筆資料，相關病患都有廠商去跟他們兜售藥品，你有沒有掌控？還有另外一個，你有沒有告訴這些醫院要告知所有病患資料被竊的事情？有沒有去做防範的動作，告知如果有人做其他事情的話，要小心？有沒有做這些動作？我要的是這些，有沒有？"],["蔡署長福隆：跟委員報告，就剛剛提到的，衛福部是醫院的目的事業主管機關，所以剛剛委員提到的……"],["林委員國成：你有沒有督促他們做嘛？"],["蔡署長福隆：是、是、是……"],["林委員國成：有沒有嘛？"],["蔡署長福隆：我都有請衛福部資訊處李處長充分地處理這件事情。"],["林委員國成：我問第一題，你就這樣了。部長，其實像這種東西就是亡羊補牢的動作要做，既然被侵犯了，以後要如何建立資安事件的SOP？這很重要。既然對方的資料被盜、被破解，當然你要告知對方，舉例：黃部長，你的資料已經被盜，所以你以後要小心。這個部分要怎麼樣去亡羊補牢？你要有SOP。部長，說實在的，我也知道你們的人很少，但是最起碼的保護措施要做，部長，我是給你建議。","另外一個問題，不是只有醫院，剛剛蔡副院長已經講了，包括私人，最近比較夯的就是關稅措施開始的時候，航運公司這幾天也被駭客攻擊，部長，這個問題你來回答，蔡署長都回答那種答案，我聽了不太「爽快」。要針對問題答復，我已經跟你講過了，所以如果你以後要這樣答復，坦白跟你講，你送書面報告給我，我就不問，對不對？部長，航運公司的資料現在也被盜，如何處理？這幾天而已喔！好啦，我跟你講，醫院盜完以後，他們現在在盜航運公司的資料，他們做這個行為，我不曉得要做什麼，可是最起碼任何一個犯罪行為，我想法務部或相關單位他們都知道，犯罪一定有他的目的，不然他做什麼犯罪動作？"],["黃部長彥男：委員，這就是為什麼資安法在這裡非常重要，因為……"],["林委員國成：是，很重要。"],["黃部長彥男：因為可以擴大我們去稽核這些單位，剛剛講了，這是交通部下面航港局的工作，我們做的是資安法，通過之後我們可以去稽核。"],["林委員國成：部長，我跟你講，我對你的業務一向都非常支持，但是對於數位部所有的答復，我是極度不滿，也就是推三阻四。沒錯，它是航港局管的，它是航運公司管的，可是最起碼你要給它資訊，這不是你監督的一部分嗎？你已經發現問題，應該告訴對方這件事情要如何防範，趕快未雨綢繆、亡羊補牢、提出防範措施，這些動作都要做。我今天還沒有跟你談如何去做補救、如何去做求償，因為今天也有資訊保安等等，所以我還是希望部長真的要加油。"],["黃部長彥男：我們會。"],["林委員國成：我沒有指責的意思，但是最起碼既然要修法，就要一次到位、一次修得更為完整，這是非常重要的，就像我剛才一開始就跟你建議的，要蒐集所有資料，各委員提出來的如果有不足的部分，我們接受；有困難的，你們加以解說，這樣逐條討論的時候才不會浪費時間，這個法接下來也會更完整、更完善，真正達到制定法律的目的。部長，這點我還是給你一個建議，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員國成：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","請何欣純委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-8","speakers":["許智傑","葛如鈞","黃國昌","黃捷","李柏毅","洪孟楷","李昆澤","蔡其昌","林國成","何欣純","徐富癸","游顥","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳素月","邱若華","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144202_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、行政院函請審議、二、委員沈伯洋等17人、三、委員葛如鈞等21人、四、委員賴瑞隆等\n17人、五、委員黃捷等17人、六、委員林宜瑾等18人、七、委員陳素月等24人、八、委員林俊憲\n等16人、九、委員羅美玲等21人、十、委員吳思瑤等17人、十一、台灣民眾黨黨團、十二、委員\n邱若華等17人分別擬具「資通安全管理法修正草案」案、十三、委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「資通安\n全管理法部分條文修正草案」案及十四、委員李柏毅等18人擬具「資通安全管理法第二條及第十\n一條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答及宣讀提案條文】","agenda_id":"1144202_00001"}}}