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--> 00:00:47,199\n很多的單位很容易被駭客入侵所以你們自己就做一個政府骨幹的網絡希望可以在這一個是一個安靜的安全的環境裡面就避免被其他單位駭客來侵入所以這個部分目前\n\n3\n00:00:48,851 --> 00:01:14,236\n我看你們的資料就是47個A機關現在已經除了三個行政院、立法院、教育部、國教院認為他們沒有這個必要那其他的44個都建制完成那這個部分不知道書發部現在的立場就是說其他三個到底是不是需要是不是應該47個一起還是目前這樣子已經算是初步完成\n\n4\n00:01:15,026 --> 00:01:43,357\n就是報告委員就是我們在去年就完成44個那今年的重點應該是很多是在地方政府等等就是這些公務機關都能夠納入就是更多機關參與T-LORD那這個T-LORD的話應該在至少幾個我們所謂的紫霞市應該是在今年會納入那至於這三個機關當初他們說因為沒有業務需要而沒有納入這一塊是不是請那個王市長再說明一下\n\n5\n00:01:45,117 --> 00:02:13,858\n市長跟我們報告因為他們當初沒有需求但是如果說之後他們有需求的話我們會全力的協助他們來一起來包括我們立法院包括行政院都認為他們很安全因為他們有被入侵誰負責主要是因為他們沒有做跨機關的資料傳輸這一塊因為TLO本身它防護就是如果你有做跨機關資料傳輸的話在傳輸當中它會去做一個安全的防護但是如果沒有做跨機關傳輸資料的需求的話它就不需要借接這個TLOOK那\n\n6\n00:02:14,318 --> 00:02:20,111\n六個縣市政府高雄市跟台北市還在建制其他直轄市來\n\n7\n00:02:24,670 --> 00:02:46,188\n其他指甲師幾乎都有在導入當中而且我們會包括我們的T-Row連接到T-Row它有一個安控伺服器這個我們都是免費的去提供給縣市來使用我們也會有輔導團所以現在依據115年明年對不對可以全部完成嗎可以\n\n8\n00:02:48,215 --> 00:03:10,806\n那這個如果都完成之後是不是在政府機關自己資料的傳輸之外駭客要入侵的機會就沒有報委員因為這個是在做資料傳輸的時候駭客沒辦法入侵但是機關本身自己他還是要有一些防護措施讓駭客不會從其他的管道去侵入到他的這個系統裡面\n\n9\n00:03:12,133 --> 00:03:40,414\n所以就是說反正這個踢肉啦就是說你們將來政府跟政府之間你說你可以用在政府之間那有沒有可能像我們現在看到的很多醫院啦很多都已經被駭客入侵的這一些是不是有機會再把他們包括進來那個應該是可以的有一些是那個比較大型的醫院其實如果他要上踢肉的話我們是可以去幫他們做接接的\n\n10\n00:03:40,819 --> 00:03:53,231\n所以這個是不是全部的單位都知道我是覺得這個如果如你們所設定的就是說我真的這麼好用我真的這麼安全那我就應該更普遍的去用到各機關那這個部分\n\n11\n00:03:56,550 --> 00:04:14,685\n因為我不知道假設你們明年一百一十五年全部可以完成這個沒問題然後完成之後相對的個資保護也好資安也好就可以用TLO就可以涵蓋台灣大部分的機關的資料傳輸就不會受到駭客的影響\n\n12\n00:04:15,883 --> 00:04:34,146\n就是資料傳輸過程中不會受影響但是剛剛那個王市長特別有講就是說我們機關本身的系統那個防護要從另外一個就是機盒跟演練去確認他的安全所以這是跟TIRO沒有直接關係但是會有TIRO是有幫助不過\n\n13\n00:04:34,867 --> 00:04:51,268\n整個機關安全還是要從根本化系統去做防護那這個我們會去做只要他是在我們的所謂的政府機關或者是特殊的這個會工機關我們都會去再做進一步集合確認落實治安的防護好沒關係現在就是說我\n\n14\n00:04:52,109 --> 00:05:18,194\n之前因為一直在關心這個踢肉的進度啦所以你們如果說可以照進度完成明年可以完成那這個我也希望說鼓勵你們繼續趕快把這個事情先完成好那另外就是說那個剛剛崑哲偉也有問到你們的員額一直都拚不夠那就是現在蘇化部所做的事情通通覺得人手夠了嗎\n\n15\n00:05:19,056 --> 00:05:44,537\n那個報告委員那個我先澄清一點就是說我們現在的那個預算原額是617人現在大概是我們原額真的目前有的人是500也是514多人大概只有大概有80%不過還是不夠啦所以我們還在努力的在在recruit人尋找人所以我們當然希望剛剛講有些人尤其是治安的人員我們確實是努力在尋找中\n\n16\n00:05:45,097 --> 00:05:59,547\n所以你在看就是第一個我們人員聘用不夠第二個資安署的離職率卻是比一般的公務機關都還要高這有點奇怪就是說你看近五年全國公務人員的離職率是0.79%結果我們資安署的離職率是2.18%高這麼多倍三倍\n\n17\n00:06:07,296 --> 00:06:33,062\n那當然之前有所謂的霸凌事件那現在就是說應該內部署長都已經整理整頓過了嗎會不會再有這種情況這個報告委員就是說我們離職率高有幾個原因一個當然是外面有一些吸引因為他外面給的薪水很高那另外一點就是說因為也是工作比較繁重責任比較就是說\n\n18\n00:06:34,362 --> 00:06:54,010\n責任工作重然後責任大所以確實有些人員是因為這樣而離開不過我們剛剛講就是經過當然也發生過霸凌事件經過處理之後尤其我們現在有新的署長上任之後這個問題正在被解決中所以各方面我想在今年會有很大的進步\n\n19\n00:06:55,012 --> 00:07:10,959\nOK那簡單的說就是你們之間就是同僚之間啦那跟工作的福利之間請部長也特別注意一下因為治安署的理智力的確是太高了所以這個有待檢討好那踢肉的事情也希望你們盡快把它完成好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n810\t27040\t謝謝主席 我們再請部長好 主委好 部長辛苦齁騎一載啊 比較累齁不過齁 那個治安大家都很重視的我記得事務發布它你們有一個就是T-RollT-Roll就是\n28513\t47199\t很多的單位很容易被駭客入侵所以你們自己就做一個政府骨幹的網絡希望可以在這一個是一個安靜的安全的環境裡面就避免被其他單位駭客來侵入所以這個部分目前\n48851\t74236\t我看你們的資料就是47個A機關現在已經除了三個行政院、立法院、教育部、國教院認為他們沒有這個必要那其他的44個都建制完成那這個部分不知道書發部現在的立場就是說其他三個到底是不是需要是不是應該47個一起還是目前這樣子已經算是初步完成\n75026\t103357\t就是報告委員就是我們在去年就完成44個那今年的重點應該是很多是在地方政府等等就是這些公務機關都能夠納入就是更多機關參與T-LORD那這個T-LORD的話應該在至少幾個我們所謂的紫霞市應該是在今年會納入那至於這三個機關當初他們說因為沒有業務需要而沒有納入這一塊是不是請那個王市長再說明一下\n105117\t133858\t市長跟我們報告因為他們當初沒有需求但是如果說之後他們有需求的話我們會全力的協助他們來一起來包括我們立法院包括行政院都認為他們很安全因為他們有被入侵誰負責主要是因為他們沒有做跨機關的資料傳輸這一塊因為TLO本身它防護就是如果你有做跨機關資料傳輸的話在傳輸當中它會去做一個安全的防護但是如果沒有做跨機關傳輸資料的需求的話它就不需要借接這個TLOOK 那\n134318\t140111\t六個縣市政府高雄市跟台北市還在建制其他直轄市來\n144670\t166188\t其他指甲師幾乎都有在導入當中而且我們會包括我們的T-Row連接到T-Row它有一個安控伺服器這個我們都是免費的去提供給縣市來使用我們也會有輔導團所以現在依據115年明年對不對可以全部完成嗎可以\n168215\t190806\t那這個如果都完成之後是不是在政府機關自己資料的傳輸之外駭客要入侵的機會就沒有報委員因為這個是在做資料傳輸的時候駭客沒辦法入侵但是機關本身自己他還是要有一些防護措施讓駭客不會從其他的管道去侵入到他的這個系統裡面\n192133\t220414\t所以就是說反正這個踢肉啦就是說你們將來政府跟政府之間你說你可以用在政府之間那有沒有可能像我們現在看到的很多醫院啦很多都已經被駭客入侵的這一些是不是有機會再把他們包括進來那個應該是可以的有一些是那個比較大型的醫院其實如果他要上踢肉的話我們是可以去幫他們做接接的\n220819\t233231\t所以這個是不是全部的單位都知道我是覺得這個如果如你們所設定的就是說我真的這麼好用我真的這麼安全那我就應該更普遍的去用到各機關那這個部分\n236550\t254685\t因為我不知道假設你們明年一百一十五年全部可以完成這個沒問題然後完成之後相對的個資保護也好資安也好就可以用TLO就可以涵蓋台灣大部分的機關的資料傳輸就不會受到駭客的影響\n255883\t274146\t就是資料傳輸過程中不會受影響但是剛剛那個王市長特別有講就是說我們機關本身的系統那個防護要從另外一個就是機盒跟演練去確認他的安全所以這是跟TIRO沒有直接關係但是會有TIRO是有幫助不過\n274867\t291268\t整個機關安全還是要從根本化系統去做防護那這個我們會去做只要他是在我們的所謂的政府機關或者是特殊的這個會工機關我們都會去再做進一步集合確認落實治安的防護好沒關係現在就是說我\n292109\t318194\t之前因為一直在關心這個踢肉的進度啦所以你們如果說可以照進度完成明年可以完成那這個我也希望說鼓勵你們繼續趕快把這個事情先完成好那另外就是說那個剛剛崑哲偉也有問到你們的員額一直都拚不夠那就是現在蘇化部所做的事情通通覺得人手夠了嗎\n319056\t344537\t那個報告委員那個我先澄清一點就是說我們現在的那個預算原額是617人現在大概是我們原額真的目前有的人是500也是514多人大概只有大概有80%不過還是不夠啦所以我們還在努力的在在recruit人 尋找人所以我們當然希望剛剛講有些人尤其是治安的人員我們確實是努力在尋找中\n345097\t359547\t所以你在看就是第一個我們人員聘用不夠第二個資安署的離職率卻是比一般的公務機關都還要高這有點奇怪就是說你看近五年全國公務人員的離職率是0.79%結果我們資安署的離職率是2.18%高這麼多倍 三倍\n367296\t393062\t那當然之前有所謂的霸凌事件那現在就是說應該內部署長都已經整理整頓過了嗎會不會再有這種情況這個報告委員就是說我們離職率高有幾個原因一個當然是外面有一些吸引因為他外面給的薪水很高那另外一點就是說因為也是工作比較繁重責任比較就是說\n394362\t414010\t責任工作重然後責任大所以確實有些人員是因為這樣而離開不過我們剛剛講就是經過當然也發生過霸凌事件經過處理之後尤其我們現在有新的署長上任之後這個問題正在被解決中所以各方面我想在今年會有很大的進步\n415012\t430959\tOK那簡單的說就是你們之間就是同僚之間啦那跟工作的福利之間請部長也特別注意一下因為治安署的理智力的確是太高了所以這個有待檢討好那踢肉的事情也希望你們盡快把它完成好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們再請部長好 主委好 部長辛苦齁騎一載啊 比較累齁不過齁 那個治安大家都很重視的我記得事務發布它你們有一個就是T-RollT-Roll就是\n很多的單位很容易被駭客入侵所以你們自己就做一個政府骨幹的網絡希望可以在這一個是一個安靜的安全的環境裡面就避免被其他單位駭客來侵入所以這個部分目前\n我看你們的資料就是47個A機關現在已經除了三個行政院、立法院、教育部、國教院認為他們沒有這個必要那其他的44個都建制完成那這個部分不知道書發部現在的立場就是說其他三個到底是不是需要是不是應該47個一起還是目前這樣子已經算是初步完成\n就是報告委員就是我們在去年就完成44個那今年的重點應該是很多是在地方政府等等就是這些公務機關都能夠納入就是更多機關參與T-LORD那這個T-LORD的話應該在至少幾個我們所謂的紫霞市應該是在今年會納入那至於這三個機關當初他們說因為沒有業務需要而沒有納入這一塊是不是請那個王市長再說明一下\n市長跟我們報告因為他們當初沒有需求但是如果說之後他們有需求的話我們會全力的協助他們來一起來包括我們立法院包括行政院都認為他們很安全因為他們有被入侵誰負責主要是因為他們沒有做跨機關的資料傳輸這一塊因為TLO本身它防護就是如果你有做跨機關資料傳輸的話在傳輸當中它會去做一個安全的防護但是如果沒有做跨機關傳輸資料的需求的話它就不需要借接這個TLOOK 那\n六個縣市政府高雄市跟台北市還在建制其他直轄市來\n其他指甲師幾乎都有在導入當中而且我們會包括我們的T-Row連接到T-Row它有一個安控伺服器這個我們都是免費的去提供給縣市來使用我們也會有輔導團所以現在依據115年明年對不對可以全部完成嗎可以\n那這個如果都完成之後是不是在政府機關自己資料的傳輸之外駭客要入侵的機會就沒有報委員因為這個是在做資料傳輸的時候駭客沒辦法入侵但是機關本身自己他還是要有一些防護措施讓駭客不會從其他的管道去侵入到他的這個系統裡面\n所以就是說反正這個踢肉啦就是說你們將來政府跟政府之間你說你可以用在政府之間那有沒有可能像我們現在看到的很多醫院啦很多都已經被駭客入侵的這一些是不是有機會再把他們包括進來那個應該是可以的有一些是那個比較大型的醫院其實如果他要上踢肉的話我們是可以去幫他們做接接的\n所以這個是不是全部的單位都知道我是覺得這個如果如你們所設定的就是說我真的這麼好用我真的這麼安全那我就應該更普遍的去用到各機關那這個部分\n因為我不知道假設你們明年一百一十五年全部可以完成這個沒問題然後完成之後相對的個資保護也好資安也好就可以用TLO就可以涵蓋台灣大部分的機關的資料傳輸就不會受到駭客的影響\n就是資料傳輸過程中不會受影響但是剛剛那個王市長特別有講就是說我們機關本身的系統那個防護要從另外一個就是機盒跟演練去確認他的安全所以這是跟TIRO沒有直接關係但是會有TIRO是有幫助不過\n整個機關安全還是要從根本化系統去做防護那這個我們會去做只要他是在我們的所謂的政府機關或者是特殊的這個會工機關我們都會去再做進一步集合確認落實治安的防護好沒關係現在就是說我\n之前因為一直在關心這個踢肉的進度啦所以你們如果說可以照進度完成明年可以完成那這個我也希望說鼓勵你們繼續趕快把這個事情先完成好那另外就是說那個剛剛崑哲偉也有問到你們的員額一直都拚不夠那就是現在蘇化部所做的事情通通覺得人手夠了嗎\n那個報告委員那個我先澄清一點就是說我們現在的那個預算原額是617人現在大概是我們原額真的目前有的人是500也是514多人大概只有大概有80%不過還是不夠啦所以我們還在努力的在在recruit人 尋找人所以我們當然希望剛剛講有些人尤其是治安的人員我們確實是努力在尋找中\n所以你在看就是第一個我們人員聘用不夠第二個資安署的離職率卻是比一般的公務機關都還要高這有點奇怪就是說你看近五年全國公務人員的離職率是0.79%結果我們資安署的離職率是2.18%高這麼多倍 三倍\n那當然之前有所謂的霸凌事件那現在就是說應該內部署長都已經整理整頓過了嗎會不會再有這種情況這個報告委員就是說我們離職率高有幾個原因一個當然是外面有一些吸引因為他外面給的薪水很高那另外一點就是說因為也是工作比較繁重責任比較就是說\n責任工作重然後責任大所以確實有些人員是因為這樣而離開不過我們剛剛講就是經過當然也發生過霸凌事件經過處理之後尤其我們現在有新的署長上任之後這個問題正在被解決中所以各方面我想在今年會有很大的進步\nOK那簡單的說就是你們之間就是同僚之間啦那跟工作的福利之間請部長也特別注意一下因為治安署的理智力的確是太高了所以這個有待檢討好那踢肉的事情也希望你們盡快把它完成好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.810 --> 00:27.040\n謝謝主席我們再請部長好主委好部長辛苦齁騎一載啊比較累齁不過齁那個治安大家都很重視的我記得事務發布它你們有一個就是T-RollT-Roll就是\n\n00:28.513 --> 00:47.199\n很多的單位很容易被駭客入侵所以你們自己就做一個政府骨幹的網絡希望可以在這一個是一個安靜的安全的環境裡面就避免被其他單位駭客來侵入所以這個部分目前\n\n00:48.851 --> 01:14.236\n我看你們的資料就是47個A機關現在已經除了三個行政院、立法院、教育部、國教院認為他們沒有這個必要那其他的44個都建制完成那這個部分不知道書發部現在的立場就是說其他三個到底是不是需要是不是應該47個一起還是目前這樣子已經算是初步完成\n\n01:15.026 --> 01:43.357\n就是報告委員就是我們在去年就完成44個那今年的重點應該是很多是在地方政府等等就是這些公務機關都能夠納入就是更多機關參與T-LORD那這個T-LORD的話應該在至少幾個我們所謂的紫霞市應該是在今年會納入那至於這三個機關當初他們說因為沒有業務需要而沒有納入這一塊是不是請那個王市長再說明一下\n\n01:45.117 --> 02:13.858\n市長跟我們報告因為他們當初沒有需求但是如果說之後他們有需求的話我們會全力的協助他們來一起來包括我們立法院包括行政院都認為他們很安全因為他們有被入侵誰負責主要是因為他們沒有做跨機關的資料傳輸這一塊因為TLO本身它防護就是如果你有做跨機關資料傳輸的話在傳輸當中它會去做一個安全的防護但是如果沒有做跨機關傳輸資料的需求的話它就不需要借接這個TLOOK那\n\n02:14.318 --> 02:20.111\n六個縣市政府高雄市跟台北市還在建制其他直轄市來\n\n02:24.670 --> 02:46.188\n其他指甲師幾乎都有在導入當中而且我們會包括我們的T-Row連接到T-Row它有一個安控伺服器這個我們都是免費的去提供給縣市來使用我們也會有輔導團所以現在依據115年明年對不對可以全部完成嗎可以\n\n02:48.215 --> 03:10.806\n那這個如果都完成之後是不是在政府機關自己資料的傳輸之外駭客要入侵的機會就沒有報委員因為這個是在做資料傳輸的時候駭客沒辦法入侵但是機關本身自己他還是要有一些防護措施讓駭客不會從其他的管道去侵入到他的這個系統裡面\n\n03:12.133 --> 03:40.414\n所以就是說反正這個踢肉啦就是說你們將來政府跟政府之間你說你可以用在政府之間那有沒有可能像我們現在看到的很多醫院啦很多都已經被駭客入侵的這一些是不是有機會再把他們包括進來那個應該是可以的有一些是那個比較大型的醫院其實如果他要上踢肉的話我們是可以去幫他們做接接的\n\n03:40.819 --> 03:53.231\n所以這個是不是全部的單位都知道我是覺得這個如果如你們所設定的就是說我真的這麼好用我真的這麼安全那我就應該更普遍的去用到各機關那這個部分\n\n03:56.550 --> 04:14.685\n因為我不知道假設你們明年一百一十五年全部可以完成這個沒問題然後完成之後相對的個資保護也好資安也好就可以用TLO就可以涵蓋台灣大部分的機關的資料傳輸就不會受到駭客的影響\n\n04:15.883 --> 04:34.146\n就是資料傳輸過程中不會受影響但是剛剛那個王市長特別有講就是說我們機關本身的系統那個防護要從另外一個就是機盒跟演練去確認他的安全所以這是跟TIRO沒有直接關係但是會有TIRO是有幫助不過\n\n04:34.867 --> 04:51.268\n整個機關安全還是要從根本化系統去做防護那這個我們會去做只要他是在我們的所謂的政府機關或者是特殊的這個會工機關我們都會去再做進一步集合確認落實治安的防護好沒關係現在就是說我\n\n04:52.109 --> 05:18.194\n之前因為一直在關心這個踢肉的進度啦所以你們如果說可以照進度完成明年可以完成那這個我也希望說鼓勵你們繼續趕快把這個事情先完成好那另外就是說那個剛剛崑哲偉也有問到你們的員額一直都拚不夠那就是現在蘇化部所做的事情通通覺得人手夠了嗎\n\n05:19.056 --> 05:44.537\n那個報告委員那個我先澄清一點就是說我們現在的那個預算原額是617人現在大概是我們原額真的目前有的人是500也是514多人大概只有大概有80%不過還是不夠啦所以我們還在努力的在在recruit人尋找人所以我們當然希望剛剛講有些人尤其是治安的人員我們確實是努力在尋找中\n\n05:45.097 --> 05:59.547\n所以你在看就是第一個我們人員聘用不夠第二個資安署的離職率卻是比一般的公務機關都還要高這有點奇怪就是說你看近五年全國公務人員的離職率是0.79%結果我們資安署的離職率是2.18%高這麼多倍三倍\n\n06:07.296 --> 06:33.062\n那當然之前有所謂的霸凌事件那現在就是說應該內部署長都已經整理整頓過了嗎會不會再有這種情況這個報告委員就是說我們離職率高有幾個原因一個當然是外面有一些吸引因為他外面給的薪水很高那另外一點就是說因為也是工作比較繁重責任比較就是說\n\n06:34.362 --> 06:54.010\n責任工作重然後責任大所以確實有些人員是因為這樣而離開不過我們剛剛講就是經過當然也發生過霸凌事件經過處理之後尤其我們現在有新的署長上任之後這個問題正在被解決中所以各方面我想在今年會有很大的進步\n\n06:55.012 --> 07:10.959\nOK那簡單的說就是你們之間就是同僚之間啦那跟工作的福利之間請部長也特別注意一下因為治安署的理智力的確是太高了所以這個有待檢討好那踢肉的事情也希望你們盡快把它完成好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.81,"end":27.04,"text":"謝謝主席 我們再請部長好 主委好 部長辛苦齁騎一載啊 比較累齁不過齁 那個治安大家都很重視的我記得事務發布它你們有一個就是T-RollT-Roll就是"},{"start":28.513,"end":47.199,"text":"很多的單位很容易被駭客入侵所以你們自己就做一個政府骨幹的網絡希望可以在這一個是一個安靜的安全的環境裡面就避免被其他單位駭客來侵入所以這個部分目前"},{"start":48.851,"end":74.236,"text":"我看你們的資料就是47個A機關現在已經除了三個行政院、立法院、教育部、國教院認為他們沒有這個必要那其他的44個都建制完成那這個部分不知道書發部現在的立場就是說其他三個到底是不是需要是不是應該47個一起還是目前這樣子已經算是初步完成"},{"start":75.026,"end":103.357,"text":"就是報告委員就是我們在去年就完成44個那今年的重點應該是很多是在地方政府等等就是這些公務機關都能夠納入就是更多機關參與T-LORD那這個T-LORD的話應該在至少幾個我們所謂的紫霞市應該是在今年會納入那至於這三個機關當初他們說因為沒有業務需要而沒有納入這一塊是不是請那個王市長再說明一下"},{"start":105.117,"end":133.858,"text":"市長跟我們報告因為他們當初沒有需求但是如果說之後他們有需求的話我們會全力的協助他們來一起來包括我們立法院包括行政院都認為他們很安全因為他們有被入侵誰負責主要是因為他們沒有做跨機關的資料傳輸這一塊因為TLO本身它防護就是如果你有做跨機關資料傳輸的話在傳輸當中它會去做一個安全的防護但是如果沒有做跨機關傳輸資料的需求的話它就不需要借接這個TLOOK 那"},{"start":134.318,"end":140.111,"text":"六個縣市政府高雄市跟台北市還在建制其他直轄市來"},{"start":144.67,"end":166.188,"text":"其他指甲師幾乎都有在導入當中而且我們會包括我們的T-Row連接到T-Row它有一個安控伺服器這個我們都是免費的去提供給縣市來使用我們也會有輔導團所以現在依據115年明年對不對可以全部完成嗎可以"},{"start":168.215,"end":190.806,"text":"那這個如果都完成之後是不是在政府機關自己資料的傳輸之外駭客要入侵的機會就沒有報委員因為這個是在做資料傳輸的時候駭客沒辦法入侵但是機關本身自己他還是要有一些防護措施讓駭客不會從其他的管道去侵入到他的這個系統裡面"},{"start":192.133,"end":220.414,"text":"所以就是說反正這個踢肉啦就是說你們將來政府跟政府之間你說你可以用在政府之間那有沒有可能像我們現在看到的很多醫院啦很多都已經被駭客入侵的這一些是不是有機會再把他們包括進來那個應該是可以的有一些是那個比較大型的醫院其實如果他要上踢肉的話我們是可以去幫他們做接接的"},{"start":220.819,"end":233.231,"text":"所以這個是不是全部的單位都知道我是覺得這個如果如你們所設定的就是說我真的這麼好用我真的這麼安全那我就應該更普遍的去用到各機關那這個部分"},{"start":236.55,"end":254.685,"text":"因為我不知道假設你們明年一百一十五年全部可以完成這個沒問題然後完成之後相對的個資保護也好資安也好就可以用TLO就可以涵蓋台灣大部分的機關的資料傳輸就不會受到駭客的影響"},{"start":255.883,"end":274.146,"text":"就是資料傳輸過程中不會受影響但是剛剛那個王市長特別有講就是說我們機關本身的系統那個防護要從另外一個就是機盒跟演練去確認他的安全所以這是跟TIRO沒有直接關係但是會有TIRO是有幫助不過"},{"start":274.867,"end":291.268,"text":"整個機關安全還是要從根本化系統去做防護那這個我們會去做只要他是在我們的所謂的政府機關或者是特殊的這個會工機關我們都會去再做進一步集合確認落實治安的防護好沒關係現在就是說我"},{"start":292.109,"end":318.194,"text":"之前因為一直在關心這個踢肉的進度啦所以你們如果說可以照進度完成明年可以完成那這個我也希望說鼓勵你們繼續趕快把這個事情先完成好那另外就是說那個剛剛崑哲偉也有問到你們的員額一直都拚不夠那就是現在蘇化部所做的事情通通覺得人手夠了嗎"},{"start":319.056,"end":344.537,"text":"那個報告委員那個我先澄清一點就是說我們現在的那個預算原額是617人現在大概是我們原額真的目前有的人是500也是514多人大概只有大概有80%不過還是不夠啦所以我們還在努力的在在recruit人 尋找人所以我們當然希望剛剛講有些人尤其是治安的人員我們確實是努力在尋找中"},{"start":345.097,"end":359.547,"text":"所以你在看就是第一個我們人員聘用不夠第二個資安署的離職率卻是比一般的公務機關都還要高這有點奇怪就是說你看近五年全國公務人員的離職率是0.79%結果我們資安署的離職率是2.18%高這麼多倍 三倍"},{"start":367.296,"end":393.062,"text":"那當然之前有所謂的霸凌事件那現在就是說應該內部署長都已經整理整頓過了嗎會不會再有這種情況這個報告委員就是說我們離職率高有幾個原因一個當然是外面有一些吸引因為他外面給的薪水很高那另外一點就是說因為也是工作比較繁重責任比較就是說"},{"start":394.362,"end":414.01,"text":"責任工作重然後責任大所以確實有些人員是因為這樣而離開不過我們剛剛講就是經過當然也發生過霸凌事件經過處理之後尤其我們現在有新的署長上任之後這個問題正在被解決中所以各方面我想在今年會有很大的進步"},{"start":415.012,"end":430.959,"text":"OK那簡單的說就是你們之間就是同僚之間啦那跟工作的福利之間請部長也特別注意一下因為治安署的理智力的確是太高了所以這個有待檢討好那踢肉的事情也希望你們盡快把它完成好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":329,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（10時24分）謝謝主席，我們再請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：許委員好。"],["許委員智傑：部長很辛苦，站了一個早上，比較累了！不過對資安大家都很重視。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["許委員智傑：我記得數發部有一個T-Road，就是很多單位都很容易被駭客入侵，所以你們就自己做一個政府骨幹的網絡，希望可以在一個安全的環境裡面傳送，以避免被駭客侵入。關於這個部分，我看了你們的資料，在47個A級機關裡面，現在除了行政院、立法院、教育部國教院認為他們沒有這個必要，其他44個都已經建置完成，對這個部分不知道數發部現在的立場是怎麼樣，其他3個到底是不是需要？是不是應該47個都一起？還是目前這樣子已經算是初步完成？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們在去年就完成44個，今年的重點應該是把地方政府這些公務機關都能夠納入，就是有更多機關參與T-Road，至少有幾個直轄市應該是在今年會納入T-Road。至於這3個機關當初是說因為沒有業務需要而沒有納入，這一塊是不是請王司長再說明一下？"],["王司長誠明：是，跟委員報告，因為他們當初沒有需求所以沒有納入，但是如果在之後他們有需求的話，我們會全力協助他們一起來納入。"],["許委員智傑：所以立法院、行政院都認為他們很安全嗎？萬一有被入侵，誰負責？"],["王司長誠明：主要是因為他們沒有做跨機關的資料傳輸這一塊，因為T-Road本身的防護就是如果有做跨機關資料傳輸的話，在傳輸當中要去做一個安全的防護，但是如果沒有跨機關傳輸資料這種需求的話，它就不需要介接這個T-Road。"],["許委員智傑：OK，在6個縣市政府裡面，高雄市跟臺北市還在建置，那其他直轄市呢？"],["王司長誠明：其他直轄市幾乎都有在導入當中，而且連接到T-Road有一個安控的伺服器，我們都是免費提供給這些縣市來使用，然後我們也會有輔導團去教他們。"],["許委員智傑：所以預計在明年（115年）可以全部完成嗎？"],["王司長誠明：可以。"],["許委員智傑：可以嗎？"],["王司長誠明：對。"],["許委員智傑：如果這個都完成之後，是不是在政府機關自己資料的傳輸之外駭客就沒有入侵的機會？"],["王司長誠明：報告委員，這個是在做資料傳輸的時候駭客沒辦法入侵，但是機關本身還是要有一些防護措施，讓駭客不會從其他管道去侵入到它的系統裡面。"],["許委員智傑：所以這個T-Road就是將來可以用在政府機關之間，那我們現在看到有很多醫院都已經被駭客入侵，是不是有機會再把他們包括進來？"],["黃部長彥男：應該是可以。"],["王司長誠明：是，有一些比較大型的醫院如果要上T-Road的話，我們是可以去幫他們做介接的。"],["許委員智傑：所以是不是全部的單位都知道這個？我覺得如果如你們所設定的真的這麼好用、真的這麼安全，那就應該更普遍的去用到各機關。假設你們在明（115）年可以全部完成，這個沒問題，然後在完成之後，相對的個資保護也好、資安也好，用T-Road可以涵蓋臺灣大部分機關的資料傳輸，就不會受到駭客的影響。"],["黃部長彥男：就是在資料傳輸過程中不會受影響，但是剛剛王司長也有特別講到，機關本身系統的防護要從稽核跟演練去確認它的安全，這是跟T-Road沒有直接關係，但是T-Road會有幫助，不過整個機關的安全還是要從根本對系統去做防護，這個我們會去做，只要是我們的政府機關或是特殊的非公務機關，我們都會再進一步去做稽核，確認落實資安的防護。"],["許委員智傑：好，沒關係。我之前一直在關心這個T-Road的進度，如果你們可以照進度在明年完成，那我也鼓勵你們趕快把這個事情先完成。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["許委員智傑：另外，剛剛昆澤委員也有問到，就是你們的員額一直都聘不夠，現在數發部所做的事情通通都覺得人手夠了嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我先澄清一點，我們現在的預算員額是617人，目前有五百一十多人，大概有百分之八十幾，不過還是不夠，所以還在努力的recruit人、尋找人，剛剛講的尤其是資安的人員，我們確實是努力在尋找中。"],["許委員智傑：所以你看，第一個，人員聘用不夠；第二個，資安署的離職率，確實比一般的公務機關都還要高，這有點奇怪，近5年全國公務人員的離職率是0.79%，結果資安署的離職率是2.18%，高這麼多倍，3倍。當然之前有所謂的霸凌事件，現在內部署長應該都已經整頓過了嗎？會不會再有這種情況？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，離職率高有幾個原因，當然外面有一些吸引力，因為外面給的薪水很高。另外一點，因為公務工作比較繁重，工作重然後責任大，所以確實有些人員是因為這樣而離開。當然也發生過霸凌事件，經過處理之後，尤其現在新的署長上任之後，問題正在被解決中，所以各方面，我想在今年會有很大的進步。"],["許委員智傑：OK，簡單的說，你們同僚之間跟工作福利的部分，請部長也特別注意一下，因為資安署的離職率的確是太高，有待檢討。T-Road的事情，也希望你們儘快把它完成。謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席（許委員智傑）：謝謝。現在請徐富癸委員。","等一下游顥質詢完，就先休息10分鐘。"],["徐委員富癸：(10時32分)好，謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：徐委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：部長早。部長，我們這一次修法，有特別針對中央跟地方聯防機制的修法，我想這是很進步的象徵，也代表地方政府不再只是消極的配合，而是積極參與國家資安防線的一員，部長應該認同啦？"],["黃部長彥男：完全認同。"],["徐委員富癸：但是，因為我過去也在縣市政府服務過，我很清楚知道，過去包含縣市政府，對於資安這一塊，它有一定的能量，但是往下一層，很多的鄉鎮公所，甚至很多中央派駐在地方的一些機關、分支機構，他們的資安能力，我們會很擔心，因為畢竟過去他們對這一塊是比較陌生，而且也沒有麼多的人力可以支應，但是面對未來的挑戰，包含現在對岸不斷地用駭客入侵的方式，我想不是只有中央的聯防機制要落實，跟地方的串聯，更是實務上很重要的挑戰，不希望出現所謂資安的破口。","我想請教部長，數發部是不是已經盤點地方政府資安的量能，包含所屬相關中央單位在各分支機構的量能，請部長說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：現在資安法新的修法，就是針對中央跟地方能夠強化資安的防護，當然會牽涉到人力跟系統的問題，剛剛也說明過，因為地方的確不只是資安人員，資訊人員也不足，所以希望資訊系統向上集中之後，管理上會比較容易。至於盤點人力的部分，署長可以再補充一下。"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員的關心，以盤點人力來講，目前所缺的資安人力大概是239人，的確地方是比較多一點，173人，我們會協助地方積極增加相關的人力。預算部分，也會儘量協助地方預算上相關的補助，都會儘量協助地方。"],["徐委員富癸：另外，針對相關資安設備的部分，我們也擔心地方政府的財力問題，資安設備如果沒有跟著升級，達到一定的防護標準，恐怕也是形成很大的破洞，這部分數發部是不是有協助的機制，甚至未來怎麼樣定期做具體的聯防演練，做地方跟中央資源的串聯，是不是有相關的規劃？"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員，的確在資安法修法通過之後，我們可以跟地方縣市政府作一些相關的稽核、相關的演練、聯防等等的機制，所以中央跟地方相關資安的防護，我想會更緊密來合作。另外，剛剛委員提到，例如說，地方在資安的人力上面，的確是比較不足，這個部分，其實我們在之前也有請地方成立區域的聯防中心，像臺北、臺中跟臺南，還有東部等等，能力比較強一點的縣市來協助能力比較弱的一些縣市，大家把區域資安聯防的概念提升上來。"],["徐委員富癸：這點本席還是要請部長能夠防範，因為我們也擔心，包含剛剛召委，大家都在關心人力缺口的部分，以現在看到職場上，一樣的薪水，可以去民間為什麼要來做你們的工作，所以我相信在薪資結構，甚至一些福利的配套措施上，也必須再強化一下，沒有好的誘因，怎麼會找到好的人才？","另外，我想針對彈性的聯防機制，甚至共享的資安人力機制也必須儘快提出，這部分是不是可以在1個月之內給書面報告？"],["黃部長彥男：再給書面報告，好，沒問題。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，除了地方的挑戰之外，我想回到中央，這次的修法，提出包含資安署可以稽核總統府、五院，甚至國安會等上級機關，當然我們很樂見這樣的設計跟實務的運作，但是會不會因為這樣子的處理，影響憲政體制的獨立運作，還有資安署的稽核上，是不是有更具體的作法跟說明？"],["黃部長彥男：我想資安法很重要的部分，就是能夠對所有包含中央單位能夠稽核，不過稽核是一種協助，做演練，至於運作的細節，我請資安署再做說明。"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員意見，的確因為資安是一體，以往除了行政院之外的其他4個院跟總統府，還有其他單位，沒有辦法在法的授權之下，做相關稽核跟協助的工作，因此沒有辦法整體來做相關資安，包括情資的分享跟一些聯防的工作，修法之後，就可以把整個，除了行政院之外，其他4個院跟總統府，大家可以整合在一起，這樣資安不管是在聯防協助跟情資的分享，都可以更完整的推動，以上。"],["徐委員富癸：我想國安的問題，大家都很關切，也是大家都要注意。部長，時代雜誌最近有報導AI安全公司針對美國的資訊中心發布，中國掌握多數AI中心關鍵零組件的供應鏈，如果這樣子蓄意的干擾，可能會造成資訊中心無法取得修復的元件，造成癱瘓的現象，而且更可能造成AI模型外洩的高風險攻擊，部長是不是有掌握這些資訊？"],["黃部長彥男：如果說是AI的算力中心或資訊中心，當然這裡面有很多所謂server的component，我們原則上就是不能用大陸的產品，現在國內的部分，包括電腦業者，這方面我們自己還滿先進的，所以我想這一塊不會需要中國的component才能做這些東西。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，我想我們都肯定這一次資安法的修法方向，也期待藉由這樣的修法，能夠落實從中央到地方完整安全、國安防範的機制，大家一起來打拚，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我們請游顥委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-8","speakers":["許智傑","葛如鈞","黃國昌","黃捷","李柏毅","洪孟楷","李昆澤","蔡其昌","林國成","何欣純","徐富癸","游顥","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳素月","邱若華","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144202_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、行政院函請審議、二、委員沈伯洋等17人、三、委員葛如鈞等21人、四、委員賴瑞隆等\n17人、五、委員黃捷等17人、六、委員林宜瑾等18人、七、委員陳素月等24人、八、委員林俊憲\n等16人、九、委員羅美玲等21人、十、委員吳思瑤等17人、十一、台灣民眾黨黨團、十二、委員\n邱若華等17人分別擬具「資通安全管理法修正草案」案、十三、委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「資通安\n全管理法部分條文修正草案」案及十四、委員李柏毅等18人擬具「資通安全管理法第二條及第十\n一條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答及宣讀提案條文】","agenda_id":"1144202_00001"}}}