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514.732, \"end\": 515.092, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"扯\", \"start\": 515.092, \"end\": 515.112, \"score\": 0.745}]}, {\"start\": 516.209, \"end\": 537.026, \"text\": \"那我覺得這不應該啦 更何況因為昨天我在問的是調查官去現場問到底是送達通知書還是製作筆錄還是要帶走 那局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書但是我們今天看到警政署的這個部分是直接把它攔下來做筆錄\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 516.209, \"end\": 516.429, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 516.429, \"end\": 516.629, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 516.629, \"end\": 516.83, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 516.83, \"end\": 517.37, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 517.37, \"end\": 517.69, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 517.69, \"end\": 517.81, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 517.81, \"end\": 520.152, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 520.152, \"end\": 520.392, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": 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775.544, \"end\": 788.022, \"text\": \"在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面其實可能發生的就是違簽姓名的偽造文書啦這是犯罪 我一直說這個是犯罪但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待所以剛剛吳孝文跟大家說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 775.544, \"end\": 775.744, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 775.744, \"end\": 775.904, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 775.904, \"end\": 776.485, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 776.485, \"end\": 776.645, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 776.645, \"end\": 776.946, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 776.946, \"end\": 777.146, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 777.146, \"end\": 777.406, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 777.406, \"end\": 777.647, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 777.647, \"end\": 778.168, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 778.168, \"end\": 778.288, \"score\": 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0.833}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 1653.773, \"end\": 1653.893, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 1653.893, \"end\": 1653.913, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:22,388\n我們請法務部、司法院還有調查局還有警政署好,有請各單位我也好我們還是要等一下複密,複密還沒進來複密\n\n2\n00:00:46,206 --> 00:01:13,482\n好謝謝各位各位早安我先請教那個法務部跟司法院我看了一下你們今天針對陳廷輝委員所提的檢疫判決處刑制度的修正草案那你們不支持的原因主要是因為認為說司法資源的有限性那如果說限縮使用可能會造成司法的負擔是不是請問法務部跟司法院是委員可以說明嗎\n\n3\n00:01:15,143 --> 00:01:33,378\n沒關係你們的報告已經有了所以我想這個是主軸對不對就主要司法資源就是說原因是什麼為什麼我們認為說會影響到排擠到那個資源這個我當然知道整個制度的狀況我知道可不可以直接下判決不用通知當事人等等的\n\n4\n00:01:34,139 --> 00:01:59,477\n那我想說我是也蠻大程度的認同說目前司法的資源其實是有限不管是在司法院或者是法務部其實資源都是有限但是因為我最近看了一些狀況包括高院就是放了那個中文字的事情等等的其實在有限的司法資源之下其實我們\n\n5\n00:02:02,221 --> 00:02:17,749\n應該我們對於這個司法資源的使用應該是放在真正的重刑犯上面而不是輕罪更不是無辜的人民所以我昨天我在質詢的時候有提到說其實我們認為的司法應該是\n\n6\n00:02:18,929 --> 00:02:46,657\n司法是要對付犯罪而不是拿來當作政治的工具更何況司法的資源是有限的所以在使用上面應該要更去思考怎麼樣對國家人民有利那我們今天審的法案都是刑事訴訟法的條文那這個法呢其實刑事訴訟法它最大的精神是在於說要發現真實還有執行一個正當的法律程序來保障受訓問者而不是說一昧的事實調查\n\n7\n00:02:47,657 --> 00:03:07,066\n不是說今天這個人有構成犯罪那我就動用所有國家的偵查力量去對付他譬如說有一個人侵占遺失物那我是不是要開始大量的搜索羈押詢問然後只為了發現他有沒有侵占遺失物的這個事實我想司法不是這樣用所以在刑事訴訟程序上面有犯罪就應該偵辦但是永遠\n\n8\n00:03:09,867 --> 00:03:35,175\n比喻原則是我們在衡量手段以及目的性的一個很重要考量尤其是在司法資源有限的情況下怎麼做其實才是一個真正重要所以除了不該一昧的就是你們就是拿說犯罪事實調查這個當作藉口之外其實你們要考量的是怎麼樣去保障正當法律的程序那這譬如說\n\n9\n00:03:36,255 --> 00:03:52,800\n比例原則有沒有去注意到公正公平的手段有沒有去注意到我想這個是我們每個司法人員因為司法人員國家訓練我們一個司法官訓練所出來的像兩位跟我國家是要花非常多錢才能把你訓練出來的我想花那麼多錢訓練出來的從業人員應該這是我們一定要\n\n10\n00:03:56,661 --> 00:04:07,458\n遵守的一個原則嘛就是在訴訟上面偵查上面審判上面有沒有符合比例原則以及公平公正合乎訴訟程序的手段我想兩位認不認同這個說法認同好謝謝\n\n11\n00:04:11,443 --> 00:04:26,456\n所以昨天我在質詢的時候遇到一個狀況就是其實人民納稅給你去發薪水絕對不是讓你說6點半去老民而且我們6點半會去一定是搜索或執行G提才有可能\n\n12\n00:04:27,176 --> 00:04:44,217\n那六點半去送達傳票這個我還真的沒聽過我想請教次長次長那個你是我檢查實習的時候的老師所以我一直尊稱你是老師嘛那以前是因為你對我影響很大所以我一路以來我就是選擇一定要當檢察官不是當法官因為我覺得偵查犯罪\n\n13\n00:04:45,441 --> 00:04:59,203\n我很喜歡這個詐犯罪然後能夠給我們自己的成就感以及對國家的貢獻所以我想請教你我們什麼時候會在六點半去檢察官會指示司法警察去送達船票我想請教次長\n\n14\n00:05:00,558 --> 00:05:20,049\n好那當然通常會在清晨這麼早通常是進行搜索進行強制處分的作為的時候是就剛講的那這個案子他送這個傳喚的方式的話但他其實他就是說他基本上他不違法但個案上妥不妥適昨天跟今天很多外界都有一些不同的意見嘛\n\n15\n00:05:20,529 --> 00:05:36,137\n我相信基隆地檢他已經聽到外界的一些聲音啦就是妥適性的部分當然可以再行檢討那基本上我們認為就是說這個案他法律合法性沒有問題但妥適性要不要檢討我們尊重一下那個我們尊重這個基隆地檢的決定\n\n16\n00:05:37,538 --> 00:06:05,435\n我覺得不當的事情就是要大聲說出來如果我今天我是一個執法人員或我是一個國家公園我說我這行為沒有違法我就可以任意對人民怎麼樣我不覺得這是應該的更何況我跟市長報告你是我以前指導老師我在那邊講嘛有誰會早上六點半派司法警察去某一個人家送船票我昨天還請教了調查局長以及法務部長我說請問一下是請他馬上帶著走還是只是通知他另外到庭時間\n\n17\n00:06:06,736 --> 00:06:25,870\n局長是說通知另外一道庭實決那我說那就一般有物送達就好了為什麼要警察早上六點半去好就我們今天發現基隆有一個議員他是之前民進黨的立委候選人他直接講啊他還公佈錄音耶這個部分是警察警政署的部分警察到現場\n\n18\n00:06:27,861 --> 00:06:45,656\n一大早在現場民眾要上班還跟他說我要上班這個名字是我簽的結果警察不讓他走一定要他做筆錄然後這個錄音是民進黨的立委候選人自己公布的那我就不知道說這是怎麼回事\n\n19\n00:06:47,057 --> 00:07:10,037\n你基隆地檢的檢察官這麼偉大嗎可以叫調查官叫警察一大早人家上班前跑去那邊把人攔下不讓他上班就是要做筆錄更何況這些人是你偵查時候認定的被害人他是可能被委簽名字的被害人就你一大早跑去他家把他攔下來不讓他上班因為要做你的筆錄請問\n\n20\n00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:34,759\n請問次長請問警政署這是我們的正當法律程序嗎我請教你請你告訴我這是不是正當的法律程序跟我們報告就是說傳喚當然在正當法律程序上面如果說看對證人還是對被告的傳喚證人除非有急迫警情但原則上要在24小時內前送達被告當然沒有這個限制那關於這一個\n\n21\n00:07:36,620 --> 00:07:55,615\n傳喚它基本上它也是對於訴訟法上對人身自由的一個自由權的一個干預它理論上都要符合相關的比例原則或相關的憲法上的原則來講是謝謝鎮長但這擺明了就是沒有慣例沒有這樣的慣例對被害人的這種傳喚完全違反比例原則\n\n22\n00:07:56,676 --> 00:08:08,739\n你跟我說這個法律沒有說不行好那法律沒有說不行那我下次是不是五點可以送四點可以送凌晨三點也可以送專部長來跟我講說這是考量基隆人的特殊性那我就說\n\n23\n00:08:10,516 --> 00:08:35,112\n很多桃園人也到台北上班那我是不是桃園就是凌晨五點去那我的助理每天從新竹到台北來上班那是不是他四點如果要通知他是不是船票四點要送過去我說部長在鬼扯蛋部長在亂講昨天早上記者問我說部長就在亂講胡說八道你今天幹到部長級的人你還在國會的這邊胡扯\n\n24\n00:08:36,209 --> 00:08:57,026\n那我覺得這不應該啦更何況因為昨天我在問的是調查官去現場問到底是送達通知書還是製作筆錄還是要帶走那局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書但是我們今天看到警政署的這個部分是直接把它攔下來做筆錄\n\n25\n00:08:58,187 --> 00:09:24,144\n但是我不能確定大法官是不是請他是把他攔下來做筆錄但是如果是的話那昨天局長跟部長在這裡就騙我了雖然大法官認為說政務官來這邊背詢說謊沒事但是我覺得這也不是我們認同跟支持的一件事情那我再講一個因為剛剛的新聞說宜蘭的黨部也被收鎖那我跟各位報告一件事情\n\n26\n00:09:25,410 --> 00:09:48,476\n我們從基隆的案子來看基隆的案子基隆罷免林佩祥的領銜人他還在臉書感謝調查站可以讓他喬到下午再去接受詢問還謝謝調查官的什麼善意好那結果呢罷免綠營團體的搜索羈押\n\n27\n00:09:53,322 --> 00:10:03,311\n一大早去把你帶走那我們今天遇到的狀況是什麼你今天只要是罷免民進黨立法委員的\n\n28\n00:10:05,036 --> 00:10:28,825\n領銜人就是開始就把你搜索羈押大肆的給你查辦那罷免藍營的呢他用力查辦的對象是誰竟然是連署人耶竟然是被害人耶結果領銜人可以哇他說下午再問就下午再問還可以在臉書上面發言感謝調查站的善意這是多麼荒謬啊\n\n29\n00:10:29,912 --> 00:10:50,512\n我想請教一下這是多麼的荒謬今天你遇到你司法在處理事情的時候竟然可以如此的區別對待我自己看到就是這樣啦今天只要是罷免綠營的支持者那你就是狂殺狂砍那今天罷免藍營的\n\n30\n00:10:52,862 --> 00:11:08,507\n人那你就對於所謂的支持的被害人你就狂殺狂砍我真的沒有辦法想像司法怎麼會到今天那我不想問部長因為部長沒有跟我說干涉個案就是個案不討論我已經發現部長的SOP了你只要問他\n\n31\n00:11:13,588 --> 00:11:31,748\n罷免跟藍營有關的他就跟你講個案然後護航我們的執法執行人員都沒問題早上去問被害人是因為基隆人有這樣的特殊需求結果你問到他罷免綠營的人的事情的時候他就開始跟你這個案我不討論喔這支個案喔\n\n32\n00:11:33,590 --> 00:12:01,565\n他永遠都是雙標這樣對我那我也說我昨天氣到跟部長說我說我也是內行人不要在那邊跟我講外行話你司法今天有沒有雙標次長我不用你回答這句話次長你是我以前的老師你也是讓我決心要走檢察官這條路的人你真的覺得今天的司法走到今天這樣我們是不是其實回到家其實可能眼淚都要流出來了怎麼司法會配合政客玩到今天這個地步\n\n33\n00:12:02,878 --> 00:12:26,030\n调战调局也是警政署也是这是我们当年从社稿官训练所出来的时候追求的司法嘛那我跟市长跟老师报告我在国民党执政的时候我办刘正宏刘正子我是办得多用力民进党执政的时候我办郑文燦他们我办得多用力因为这个都是我等于是在对抗当时的任何一个执政党\n\n34\n00:12:27,431 --> 00:12:52,652\n因為我心中司法就是公正的處理每個案子我每一次辦完都被關切都有人對我不爽但我覺得那個就是一個司法人員的宿命我們就是要起來對抗強權結果我今天看到的完全不是這樣次長這個部分真的你就不用回答所以我認為犯罪該辦就辦這我絕對百分之百支持但是犯罪的時候不應該區別對待\n\n35\n00:12:55,544 --> 00:13:08,022\n在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面其實可能發生的就是違簽姓名的偽造文書啦這是犯罪我一直說這個是犯罪但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待所以剛剛吳孝文跟大家說\n\n36\n00:13:09,431 --> 00:13:29,240\n什麼什麼去集會什麼4.26去集會怎麼樣然後這個你們認為這個不是犯罪什麼等等之類其實我覺得這些人都是在誤導國人因為我們今天主張的是我剛剛所說的你在針對同樣的事情的時候你是採取不一樣的對待方式我是對於司法的不公執行方式的不公\n\n37\n00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:45,912\n我在抗議的是這個事絕對不是我說偽造文書沒有過程犯罪我從幾個月前我在立法院的國事論壇上面我就公開的說偽造文書不管哪一檔只要你偽簽偽造聯署書就是犯罪所以\n\n38\n00:13:46,530 --> 00:14:12,425\n不要在那邊胡扯這些事情還有我再提一個3月17號的時候中選會的副主委有說二階段連署的格式只能由選務機關發出來也就是說他所有的格式都不能夠有自己設計的如果有的話他自己說他副主委自己說有違反公職人員選罷法還有刑法等等的相關責任而且他講得細到說\n\n39\n00:14:14,977 --> 00:14:43,609\n各個名冊格式這個標題文字字體名各欄次次序長寬的等等這個只要有問題那就是違法結果呢我們發現花蓮花蓮有4000份的格式有問題結果到現在呢有搜索嗎沒有啊有大量傳喚嗎沒有啊所以這到底是怎麼回事呢那我們在想這兩天聽到的說什麼新竹的\n\n40\n00:14:44,349 --> 00:15:08,390\n林志傑前立委參選人他叫大家來簽聯署然後會請喝咖啡吃蛋糕那這個我們一聽到這個絕對是會選嘛但現在呢也沒有沒有任何的動作但是我們看到的你對於其他的地方像譬如說今天對宜蘭就超級有效率然後趕快去搜索然後把人現在全部都帶回去飼料處\n\n41\n00:15:10,950 --> 00:15:39,014\n然後在做這種事情所以這就是我心裡覺得我心裡覺得不公平啦我是替人民出來講話我對這國家這個司法對於人民是不公平的而且部長昨天局長趕在這邊跟我講我們都是依法處理我跟你講鬼才信啦我今天幹過20年警察官我很清楚這些長官在玩什麼東西只是這一次的長官玩的比以前嚴重更多\n\n42\n00:15:40,749 --> 00:16:08,122\n國民黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家心知肚明民進黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家也心知肚明但是我所看到的是這一屆玩得最誇張最離譜那各位都是國家真正很強的棟樑那我也不管大家我也不在乎大家政治思想是什麼但是是不是我們在執行司法執行公務的時候就心裡那一把尺我也有我自己的政治傾向但是在過往我不管在辦\n\n43\n00:16:09,222 --> 00:16:36,963\n國民黨的劉家或是在辦民進黨的次長我永遠心裡就那把尺就是司法怎麼樣我就怎麼辦我即使辦到後來部長對我都很不諒解我還是堅持辦因為這是司法人員的堅持嘛我辦劉家也被他們檢舉了好多年啦我也從來沒有說怨恨他們什麼就是我該怎麼做我記得次長你也曾經打過一通電話給我\n\n44\n00:16:38,888 --> 00:16:56,563\n你在處理劉家那時候告我的案子那個時候應該您是在法務部處理這案子我那時候在桃檢你有打電話跟我問一下整個內情狀況我有跟你回覆所以我們是提著人頭在辦案在對抗強權但是現在司法的長官們是怎麼在做的\n\n45\n00:17:02,162 --> 00:17:29,195\n好那我再請教一下次長次長花蓮的這個案子後來講說為什麼這四千份有問題卻沒有提告那當時的花蓮地檢說因為沒有人來告啊那我想請問一下次長沒有人檢舉的案子非告訴難用的案子地檢署就不用發動偵查嗎當然不是啊假如因為告訴告發自首或其他刑事自由犯罪嫌疑及應急開始偵辦\n\n46\n00:17:29,795 --> 00:17:49,017\n是謝謝次長謝謝老師那我想檢報分案也是檢方的日常那今天這麼嚴重了大家鬧轟轟成這樣而且非常多罷免團體也都被辦的情況下花蓮地檢署竟然可以說因為沒有民眾來告所以這四千份的事情我就沒有處理然後後來是侯漢廷跑去提出告發\n\n47\n00:17:49,878 --> 00:18:05,277\n那我的意思是說花蓮地檢的這個說法會不會太騙人民啦太侮辱人民的智商啊檢報分案是很多人民都知道的事情更何況司法人員就花蓮地檢署竟然可以說沒有啊沒有人來告啊所以我沒有辦啊\n\n48\n00:18:07,078 --> 00:18:31,726\n這個東西我也沒有辦法接受啦跟老師報告一下這個我沒有辦法接受因為我覺得這也是選擇性的不作為前面是選擇性的作為這邊是選擇性的不作為我覺得國家如果要愚民就不要讓我念書你讓我念書了大家念到博士了我們念到博士了然後你再來給我騙一堆弱智的人才會被騙的事情那這樣的國家\n\n49\n00:18:33,188 --> 00:19:02,101\n不知道在搞什麼不然你就讓我們全國人民都不要念書全部小學三年級畢業就好如果不是這樣的話請不要把大家當笨蛋看就算刪除預算一樣他叫大家不要送解凍案來他忘記了我們有好多同學跟親戚都在中央機關上班啊他們都會私下跟我說上面交代解凍案都不要送要讓人民對你們不爽對啊所以我就說這就是現在就是現在的政府我不知道現在政府到底是\n\n50\n00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:15,819\n福國利民心存善念的在對待人民就是在搞他的政治鬥爭所以我最近對於司法的問題越來越生氣就是現在司法真的完全不是我以前想像的\n\n51\n00:19:17,244 --> 00:19:38,921\n那次長我再請教一下就是筆跡有沒有重複啊到底目前大家的判斷標準是什麼為什麼大家看一看就可以來搜索請教次長當然現在才在搜索階段他要求的這個證據能力的程度不會像到法院嘛那到法院通常透過鑑定的證據方法去確認這是否有偽造\n\n52\n00:19:39,301 --> 00:20:03,103\n因為在偵查中他申請相關的搜索票也好他並沒有要求要政治能力就證據能力所以也許檢察官他就基於勘驗勘驗也是一個調查方法勘驗之後認為他有可能有這個偽造肢體他也許就提這個證據向法院申請好謝謝長那這講說這都我們很熟悉的嘛就但是我也要跟就是說跟在場的各位報告一件事情不管在高雄韓國瑜的\n\n53\n00:20:03,963 --> 00:20:24,748\n聯署案的案子或者是在北檢當時辦的郭台銘聯署案的案子其實檢察官到最後都認定說罷免團體領先人他們是被動的收這些聯署書他也沒有審核的能力他也沒有互譯證系統可以比對真假依照現有的制度\n\n54\n00:20:28,569 --> 00:20:47,206\n確實現有的制度北檢也說了啊依照現行法制之下被聯署的人確實沒有無權要求民眾出具證件核實才能參加聯署那既然有這麼大漏洞當時國民黨要提案說罷免要附身分證一本民進黨又狂黨還在那邊騙說人民說國民黨沒收罷免權\n\n55\n00:20:48,627 --> 00:21:11,630\n其實我們希望能夠有一個嚴謹的連署結果民進黨不肯他設了一個局讓大家跳進去就現在連署了啊那他就開始說有一些事可能是有問題就像基隆一樣嘛跑到人家家裡問你說六點半問你說這是不是你連署就那個人說對啊這我簽的啊那今天你司法機關竟然可以拿了這個東西覺得兩個人的筆跡很像就可以把它當作一件刑事案件在偵辦\n\n56\n00:21:12,771 --> 00:21:39,094\n那不是就等於坐實了你原來民進黨不想要附身分證影本就是想要讓國民黨簽一簽之後反正司法都在你手上啦隨便你怎麼玩嘛他就直接拿聯署到你家去問然後說這是不是你簽的然後開始擾民開始玩這些如果今天可以要附身分證影本的話今天這個狀況大概發生的機率是非常低所以我覺得一整套套路下來民進黨就是用不停的制度以及什麼就是要玩弄國人\n\n57\n00:21:39,835 --> 00:22:08,727\n不然我們都附身分證影本大家都玩真的就好了為什麼你擋到底他顯然就設一個局讓你跳可以讓他控制的司法人員可以隨便拿兩張說這個筆記好像很像那我就開始去調查就變成這樣子就有司法人員陪著調查所以我想講檢察官是看證據辦案不是看政治辦案千萬不要變成今天是看政治辦案這真的是不可取\n\n58\n00:22:10,188 --> 00:22:31,227\n所以我過去20年在檢方的時候我辦了很多執政黨的人當然把我們自己搞得全身都是傷那我以前覺得受那個傷我對得起國人所以我願意這樣做那你們今天變成今天這樣讓我想說那我以前好像是笨蛋欸為什麼我會這樣逼自己要一切\n\n59\n00:22:32,335 --> 00:22:58,252\n要依法處理要愛這個國家要為這個國家做事我現在看到的都完全不一樣所以霸藍的直接處理你霸團霸綠的早上直接去處理那個敢聯署的人然後對於霸藍團體的領先人還可以跟他移到下午再開庭讓人家來臉書感謝這就是我看到現在的司法\n\n60\n00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:13,368\n好吧那個我覺得我還是說啦犯罪就該偵辦但是我不會去批評檢方啟動犯罪調查這件事所以我一直以來我都沒有說你們處理霸安團體是不對但是\n\n61\n00:23:14,605 --> 00:23:31,191\n我的要求只是請公平的對待請注意手段目的的比例原則否則在一個完全不符合比例原則這個之下我沒有辦法接受那請重視一下正當的法律程序你們目前的作為其實讓我沒有辦法溝通這些事情\n\n62\n00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:56,719\n好那而且我各位還要想到一件事情你們現在搜索羈押了這些人萬一以後判無罪呢判無罪之後願意賠償然後你也是拿全民的錢去賠給他你今天搞了這些人達到你的政治目的結果你到最後判無罪了你也是拿人民的錢去賠給他\n\n63\n00:23:58,789 --> 00:24:23,946\n民進黨沒事啊沒受傷啊我得到好多的政治紅利啊反正賠的是國家的預算啊也不關他的事那這是我現在看到而且我預測將來可能會面對到可能會面對到很多這種東西啦我相信會有很多人會被判無罪因為你怎麼去說他有辨識違簽的這個能力那個檢調機關真的不要變成司法鬥爭的工具\n\n64\n00:24:24,927 --> 00:24:53,501\n好我剛剛那個最後我想說齁我提一個東西啦齁那個因為跟今天的法案是有一點關係的齁那個呃在這個PowerPoint上面我希望說你們兩週內能夠提一個報告齁對於這個車禍過失傷害的告訴難論之罪齁也要加強這個刑事負債民事的這個權益的告知因為有一些人喔他不知道就整個走完之後過了過了損害賠償的那個那個請求權失效喔因為實務上\n\n65\n00:24:54,181 --> 00:25:04,952\n有很多人來跟我報怨陳情這個事但我跟他說這是因為法律的規定但是行政機關司法機關確實是可以幫忙去做這個啦最後30秒給我剛剛吳思堯講到那個禁制區的問題就是極有法禁制區廢除\n\n66\n00:25:14,537 --> 00:25:42,331\n我沒有我對要不要廢除我沒有意見但是提廢除的是民進黨當年提的所以吳志曉可能要回去先跟黨問一下當初是民進黨提說要廢這個禁制區不是國民黨結果他今天執政了他又覺得禁制區要存在這就是他的雙標不管在財化法等等國會改革民進黨永遠在雙標好然後呢還有就是他剛剛說立法委員不能變為法委員然後說帶隊到那個台北地檢署前面去集會當然那個集會\n\n67\n00:25:43,852 --> 00:26:03,434\n法律上面當然可以給予評價但是我在這邊要跟各位再報告一件事那去年12月呢青鳥要衝進立法院然後在那邊剪斷鐵絲網然後在那邊妨害公務毀損跟妨害公務呢那這兩個也是犯罪啊為什麼沒有見到你說立法委員什麼時候立法委員是違法委員呢好\n\n68\n00:26:04,675 --> 00:26:31,912\n劉四芳明明沒有指揮警察辦案的權利結果他可以叫警察說要移送誰移送誰然後大家問他之後他就說違法就要辦啊那如果劉四芳違法就要辦那劉四芳要不要辦辦鍾佳斌因為鍾佳斌在那邊撿鐵絲網啊那是毀損啊那要不要在那邊辦案那幾個王定宇那幾個在那邊叫衝進立法院趕快衝進來那個是妨礙公務啊那劉四芳要不要叫指揮警察辦案呢\n\n69\n00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:56,592\n所以我就覺得就是永遠雙標啦自己也沒有指揮的權利也在那邊說要指揮警察丟臉丟死了連這最基本自己能做什麼都搞不清楚然後立法委員在那邊敲壞立法院的桌子拔斷麥克風打破玻璃晚上跑進立法院都沒事都不是犯罪然後到\n\n70\n00:26:58,325 --> 00:27:06,322\n到北檢前面集會要違反極右法天大的罪好像要殺頭一樣結果你在這邊幹了一堆蠢事丟臉丟到國外摸女生屁股\n\n71\n00:27:07,641 --> 00:27:33,913\n摸女性立法委員屁股就還上很多國家的報紙頭版沒事這就是我們現在看到的所以剛剛那個吳教委員說他是今天來這邊給大家上法律教育課我覺得他應該自己要去上一下法律教育他自己搞不太清楚法律他自己才應該去先上法律教育課懂一下什麼是正常的法律好不好意思謝謝各位那麻煩兩週內能夠把這個報告給我們可以嗎可以好謝謝謝謝各位\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t22388\t我們請法務部、司法院還有調查局還有警政署好,有請各單位我也好我們還是要等一下複密,複密還沒進來複密\n46206\t73482\t好 謝謝各位 各位早安我先請教那個法務部跟司法院我看了一下你們今天針對陳廷輝委員所提的檢疫判決處刑制度的修正草案那你們不支持的原因主要是因為認為說司法資源的有限性那如果說限縮使用可能會造成司法的負擔是不是 請問法務部跟司法院是 委員可以說明嗎\n75143\t93378\t沒關係你們的報告已經有了所以我想這個是主軸對不對就主要司法資源就是說原因是什麼為什麼我們認為說會影響到排擠到那個資源這個我當然知道整個制度的狀況我知道可不可以直接下判決不用通知當事人等等的\n94139\t119477\t那我想說我是也蠻大程度的認同說目前司法的資源其實是有限不管是在司法院或者是法務部其實資源都是有限但是因為我最近看了一些狀況包括高院就是放了那個中文字的事情等等的其實在有限的司法資源之下其實我們\n122221\t137749\t應該我們對於這個司法資源的使用應該是放在真正的重刑犯上面而不是輕罪 更不是無辜的人民所以我昨天我在質詢的時候有提到說其實我們認為的司法應該是\n138929\t166657\t司法是要對付犯罪而不是拿來當作政治的工具更何況司法的資源是有限的所以在使用上面應該要更去思考怎麼樣對國家人民有利那我們今天審的法案都是刑事訴訟法的條文那這個法呢其實刑事訴訟法它最大的精神是在於說要發現真實還有執行一個正當的法律程序來保障受訓問者而不是說一昧的事實調查\n167657\t187066\t不是說今天這個人有構成犯罪那我就動用所有國家的偵查力量去對付他譬如說有一個人侵占遺失物那我是不是要開始大量的搜索羈押詢問然後只為了發現他有沒有侵占遺失物的這個事實我想司法不是這樣用所以在刑事訴訟程序上面有犯罪就應該偵辦但是永遠\n189867\t215175\t比喻原則是我們在衡量手段以及目的性的一個很重要考量尤其是在司法資源有限的情況下怎麼做其實才是一個真正重要所以除了不該一昧的就是你們就是拿說犯罪事實調查這個當作藉口之外其實你們要考量的是怎麼樣去保障正當法律的程序那這譬如說\n216255\t232800\t比例原則有沒有去注意到公正公平的手段有沒有去注意到我想這個是我們每個司法人員因為司法人員國家訓練我們一個司法官訓練所出來的像兩位跟我國家是要花非常多錢才能把你訓練出來的我想花那麼多錢訓練出來的從業人員應該這是我們一定要\n236661\t247458\t遵守的一個原則嘛 就是在訴訟上面偵查上面 審判上面有沒有符合比例原則以及公平公正合乎訴訟程序的手段我想兩位認不認同這個說法認同好 謝謝\n251443\t266456\t所以昨天我在質詢的時候遇到一個狀況就是其實人民納稅給你去發薪水絕對不是讓你說6點半去老民而且我們6點半會去一定是搜索或執行G提才有可能\n267176\t284217\t那六點半去送達傳票這個我還真的沒聽過我想請教次長次長那個你是我檢查實習的時候的老師所以我一直尊稱你是老師嘛那以前是因為你對我影響很大所以我一路以來我就是選擇一定要當檢察官不是當法官因為我覺得偵查犯罪\n285441\t299203\t我很喜歡這個詐犯罪然後能夠給我們自己的成就感以及對國家的貢獻所以我想請教你我們什麼時候會在六點半去檢察官會指示司法警察去送達船票我想請教次長\n300558\t320049\t好 那當然通常會在清晨這麼早通常是進行搜索 進行強制處分的作為的時候是 就剛講的那這個案子他送這個傳喚的方式的話 但他其實他就是說他基本上他不違法 但個案上妥不妥適昨天跟今天很多外界都有一些不同的意見嘛\n320529\t336137\t我相信基隆地檢他已經聽到外界的一些聲音啦就是妥適性的部分當然可以再行檢討那基本上我們認為就是說這個案他法律合法性沒有問題但妥適性要不要檢討我們尊重一下那個我們尊重這個基隆地檢的決定\n337538\t365435\t我覺得不當的事情就是要大聲說出來如果我今天我是一個執法人員或我是一個國家公園我說我這行為沒有違法我就可以任意對人民怎麼樣我不覺得這是應該的更何況我跟市長報告 你是我以前指導老師我在那邊講嘛 有誰會早上六點半派司法警察去某一個人家送船票我昨天還請教了調查局長以及法務部長我說請問一下是請他馬上帶著走還是只是通知他另外到庭時間\n366736\t385870\t局長是說通知另外一道庭實決那我說那就一般有物送達就好了為什麼要警察早上六點半去好 就我們今天發現基隆有一個議員他是之前民進黨的立委候選人他直接講啊 他還公佈錄音耶這個部分是警察 警政署的部分警察到現場\n387861\t405656\t一大早在現場 民眾要上班 還跟他說我要上班這個名字是我簽的結果警察不讓他走 一定要他做筆錄然後這個錄音是民進黨的立委候選人自己公布的那我就不知道說 這是怎麼回事\n407057\t430037\t你基隆地檢的檢察官這麼偉大嗎可以叫調查官叫警察一大早人家上班前跑去那邊把人攔下不讓他上班就是要做筆錄更何況這些人是你偵查時候認定的被害人他是可能被委簽名字的被害人就你一大早跑去他家把他攔下來不讓他上班因為要做你的筆錄請問\n433120\t454759\t請問次長請問警政署這是我們的正當法律程序嗎我請教你請你告訴我這是不是正當的法律程序跟我們報告就是說傳喚當然在正當法律程序上面如果說看對證人還是對被告的傳喚證人除非有急迫警情但原則上要在24小時內前送達被告當然沒有這個限制那關於這一個\n456620\t475615\t傳喚它基本上它也是對於 訴訟法上對人身自由的一個自由權的一個干預它理論上都要符合相關的比例原則或相關的憲法上的原則來講是 謝謝鎮長 但這擺明了就是沒有慣例 沒有這樣的慣例對被害人的這種傳喚完全違反比例原則\n476676\t488739\t你跟我說這個法律沒有說不行好 那法律沒有說不行那我下次是不是五點可以送四點可以送 凌晨三點也可以送專部長來跟我講說這是考量基隆人的特殊性那我就說\n490516\t515112\t很多桃園人也到台北上班 那我是不是桃園就是凌晨五點去那我的助理每天從新竹到台北來上班 那是不是他四點如果要通知他是不是船票四點要送過去我說部長在鬼扯蛋 部長在亂講昨天早上記者問我說 部長就在亂講 胡說八道你今天幹到部長級的人 你還在國會的這邊胡扯\n516209\t537026\t那我覺得這不應該啦 更何況因為昨天我在問的是調查官去現場問到底是送達通知書還是製作筆錄還是要帶走 那局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書但是我們今天看到警政署的這個部分是直接把它攔下來做筆錄\n538187\t564144\t但是我不能確定大法官是不是請他是把他攔下來做筆錄 但是如果是的話那昨天局長跟部長在這裡就騙我了雖然大法官認為說政務官來這邊背詢說謊沒事但是我覺得這也不是我們認同跟支持的一件事情那我再講一個 因為剛剛的新聞說宜蘭的黨部也被收鎖那我跟各位報告一件事情\n565410\t588476\t我們從基隆的案子來看基隆的案子基隆罷免林佩祥的領銜人他還在臉書感謝調查站可以讓他喬到下午再去接受詢問還謝謝調查官的什麼善意好那結果呢罷免綠營團體的搜索羈押\n593322\t603311\t一大早去把你帶走那我們今天遇到的狀況是什麼你今天只要是罷免民進黨立法委員的\n605036\t628825\t領銜人就是開始就把你搜索 羈押 大肆的給你查辦那罷免藍營的呢 他用力查辦的對象是誰竟然是連署人耶 竟然是被害人耶結果領銜人可以 哇 他說下午再問就下午再問還可以在臉書上面發言 感謝調查站的善意這是多麼荒謬啊\n629912\t650512\t我想請教一下這是多麼的荒謬今天你遇到你司法在處理事情的時候竟然可以如此的區別對待我自己看到就是這樣啦今天只要是罷免綠營的支持者那你就是狂殺狂砍那今天罷免藍營的\n652862\t668507\t人 那你就對於所謂的支持的被害人 你就狂殺狂砍我真的沒有辦法想像司法怎麼會到今天那我不想問部長 因為部長沒有跟我說 干涉個案就是個案不討論 我已經發現部長的SOP了 你只要問他\n673588\t691748\t罷免跟藍營有關的 他就跟你講個案然後護航 我們的執法執行人員都沒問題早上去問被害人 是因為基隆人有這樣的特殊需求結果你問到他罷免綠營的人的事情的時候他就開始跟你 這個案我不討論喔 這支個案喔\n693590\t721565\t他永遠都是雙標這樣對我那我也說我昨天氣到跟部長說我說我也是內行人不要在那邊跟我講外行話你司法今天有沒有雙標次長我不用你回答這句話次長你是我以前的老師你也是讓我決心要走檢察官這條路的人你真的覺得今天的司法走到今天這樣我們是不是其實回到家其實可能眼淚都要流出來了怎麼司法會配合政客玩到今天這個地步\n722878\t746030\t调战调局也是 警政署也是这是我们当年从社稿官训练所出来的时候追求的司法嘛那我跟市长跟老师报告我在国民党执政的时候我办刘正宏刘正子我是办得多用力民进党执政的时候我办郑文燦他们我办得多用力因为这个都是我等于是在对抗当时的任何一个执政党\n747431\t772652\t因為我心中司法就是公正的處理每個案子我每一次辦完都被關切 都有人對我不爽但我覺得那個就是一個司法人員的宿命我們就是要起來對抗強權結果我今天看到的完全不是這樣次長這個部分真的你就不用回答所以我認為犯罪該辦就辦這我絕對百分之百支持但是犯罪的時候不應該區別對待\n775544\t788022\t在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面其實可能發生的就是違簽姓名的偽造文書啦這是犯罪 我一直說這個是犯罪但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待所以剛剛吳孝文跟大家說\n789431\t809240\t什麼什麼去集會什麼4.26去集會怎麼樣然後這個你們認為這個不是犯罪什麼等等之類其實我覺得這些人都是在誤導國人因為我們今天主張的是我剛剛所說的你在針對同樣的事情的時候你是採取不一樣的對待方式我是對於司法的不公執行方式的不公\n810020\t825912\t我在抗議的是這個事絕對不是我說偽造文書沒有過程犯罪我從幾個月前我在立法院的國事論壇上面我就公開的說偽造文書不管哪一檔只要你偽簽偽造聯署書就是犯罪所以\n826530\t852425\t不要在那邊胡扯這些事情還有我再提一個3月17號的時候中選會的副主委有說二階段連署的格式只能由選務機關發出來也就是說他所有的格式都不能夠有自己設計的如果有的話他自己說 他副主委自己說有違反公職人員選罷法還有刑法等等的相關責任而且他講得細到說\n854977\t883609\t各個名冊格式這個標題文字字體名各欄次次序長寬的等等這個只要有問題那就是違法結果呢我們發現花蓮花蓮有4000份的格式有問題結果到現在呢有搜索嗎沒有啊有大量傳喚嗎沒有啊所以這到底是怎麼回事呢那我們在想這兩天聽到的說什麼新竹的\n884349\t908390\t林志傑 前立委參選人 他叫大家來簽聯署 然後會請喝咖啡 吃蛋糕那這個我們一聽到 這個絕對是會選嘛但現在呢 也沒有沒有任何的動作 但是我們看到的你對於其他的地方像譬如說今天對宜蘭 就超級有效率然後趕快去搜索 然後把人現在全部都帶回去飼料處\n910950\t939014\t然後在做這種事情所以這就是我心裡覺得我心裡覺得不公平啦我是替人民出來講話我對這國家這個司法對於人民是不公平的而且部長 昨天局長趕在這邊跟我講我們都是依法處理我跟你講 鬼才信啦我今天幹過20年警察官我很清楚這些長官在玩什麼東西只是這一次的長官玩的比以前嚴重更多\n940749\t968122\t國民黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家心知肚明民進黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家也心知肚明但是我所看到的是這一屆玩得最誇張最離譜那各位都是國家真正很強的棟樑那我也不管大家我也不在乎大家政治思想是什麼但是是不是我們在執行司法執行公務的時候就心裡那一把尺我也有我自己的政治傾向但是在過往我不管在辦\n969222\t996963\t國民黨的劉家或是在辦民進黨的次長我永遠心裡就那把尺就是司法怎麼樣我就怎麼辦我即使辦到後來部長對我都很不諒解我還是堅持辦因為這是司法人員的堅持嘛我辦劉家也被他們檢舉了好多年啦我也從來沒有說怨恨他們什麼就是我該怎麼做我記得次長你也曾經打過一通電話給我\n998888\t1016563\t你在處理劉家那時候告我的案子那個時候應該您是在法務部處理這案子我那時候在桃檢 你有打電話跟我問一下整個內情狀況 我有跟你回覆所以我們是提著人頭在辦案 在對抗強權但是現在司法的長官們是怎麼在做的\n1022162\t1049195\t好那我再請教一下次長次長花蓮的這個案子後來講說為什麼這四千份有問題卻沒有提告那當時的花蓮地檢說因為沒有人來告啊那我想請問一下次長沒有人檢舉的案子非告訴難用的案子地檢署就不用發動偵查嗎當然不是啊假如因為告訴告發自首或其他刑事自由犯罪嫌疑及應急開始偵辦\n1049795\t1069017\t是 謝謝次長 謝謝老師那我想檢報分案也是檢方的日常那今天這麼嚴重了大家鬧轟轟成這樣而且非常多罷免團體也都被辦的情況下花蓮地檢署竟然可以說因為沒有民眾來告所以這四千份的事情我就沒有處理然後後來是侯漢廷跑去提出告發\n1069878\t1085277\t那我的意思是說花蓮地檢的這個說法會不會太騙人民啦太侮辱人民的智商啊檢報分案是很多人民都知道的事情更何況司法人員就花蓮地檢署竟然可以說沒有啊沒有人來告啊所以我沒有辦啊\n1087078\t1111726\t這個東西我也沒有辦法接受啦跟老師報告一下這個我沒有辦法接受因為我覺得這也是選擇性的不作為前面是選擇性的作為這邊是選擇性的不作為我覺得國家如果要愚民就不要讓我念書你讓我念書了大家念到博士了我們念到博士了然後你再來給我騙一堆弱智的人才會被騙的事情那這樣的國家\n1113188\t1142101\t不知道在搞什麼不然你就讓我們全國人民都不要念書全部小學三年級畢業就好如果不是這樣的話請不要把大家當笨蛋看就算刪除預算一樣他叫大家不要送解凍案來他忘記了我們有好多同學跟親戚都在中央機關上班啊他們都會私下跟我說上面交代解凍案都不要送要讓人民對你們不爽對啊所以我就說這就是現在就是現在的政府我不知道現在政府到底是\n1143476\t1155819\t福國利民 心存善念的在對待人民就是在搞他的政治鬥爭所以我最近對於司法的問題越來越生氣就是現在司法真的完全不是我以前想像的\n1157244\t1178921\t那次長我再請教一下就是筆跡有沒有重複啊到底目前大家的判斷標準是什麼為什麼大家看一看就可以來搜索請教次長當然現在才在搜索階段他要求的這個證據能力的程度不會像到法院嘛那到法院通常透過鑑定的證據方法去確認這是否有偽造\n1179301\t1203103\t因為在偵查中他申請相關的搜索票也好他並沒有要求要政治能力就證據能力所以也許檢察官他就基於勘驗勘驗也是一個調查方法勘驗之後認為他有可能有這個偽造肢體他也許就提這個證據向法院申請好謝謝長那這講說這都我們很熟悉的嘛就但是我也要跟就是說跟在場的各位報告一件事情不管在高雄韓國瑜的\n1203963\t1224748\t聯署案的案子 或者是在北檢當時辦的郭台銘聯署案的案子其實檢察官到最後都認定說罷免團體領先人他們是被動的收這些聯署書他也沒有審核的能力 他也沒有互譯證系統可以比對真假依照現有的制度\n1228569\t1247206\t確實現有的制度 北檢也說了啊依照現行法制之下 被聯署的人確實沒有無權要求民眾出具證件核實才能參加聯署那既然有這麼大漏洞 當時國民黨要提案說罷免要附身分證一本 民進黨又狂黨還在那邊騙說人民說國民黨沒收罷免權\n1248627\t1271630\t其實我們希望能夠有一個嚴謹的連署結果民進黨不肯他設了一個局讓大家跳進去就現在連署了啊那他就開始說有一些事可能是有問題就像基隆一樣嘛跑到人家家裡問你說六點半問你說這是不是你連署就那個人說對啊這我簽的啊那今天你司法機關竟然可以拿了這個東西覺得兩個人的筆跡很像就可以把它當作一件刑事案件在偵辦\n1272771\t1299094\t那不是就等於坐實了你原來民進黨不想要附身分證影本就是想要讓國民黨簽一簽之後反正司法都在你手上啦隨便你怎麼玩嘛他就直接拿聯署到你家去問然後說這是不是你簽的然後開始擾民開始玩這些如果今天可以要附身分證影本的話今天這個狀況大概發生的機率是非常低所以我覺得一整套套路下來民進黨就是用不停的制度以及什麼就是要玩弄國人\n1299835\t1328727\t不然我們都附身分證影本大家都玩真的就好了為什麼你擋到底他顯然就設一個局讓你跳可以讓他控制的司法人員可以隨便拿兩張說這個筆記好像很像那我就開始去調查就變成這樣子就有司法人員陪著調查所以我想講檢察官是看證據辦案不是看政治辦案千萬不要變成今天是看政治辦案這真的是不可取\n1330188\t1351227\t所以我過去20年在檢方的時候我辦了很多執政黨的人當然把我們自己搞得全身都是傷那我以前覺得受那個傷我對得起國人所以我願意這樣做那你們今天變成今天這樣讓我想說那我以前好像是笨蛋欸為什麼我會這樣逼自己要一切\n1352335\t1378252\t要依法處理 要愛這個國家 要為這個國家做事我現在看到的都完全不一樣所以 霸藍的直接處理你霸團 霸綠的早上直接去處理那個敢聯署的人然後對於霸藍團體的領先人還可以跟他 移到下午再開庭讓人家來臉書感謝 這就是我看到現在的司法\n1379960\t1393368\t好吧那個我覺得我還是說啦犯罪就該偵辦但是我不會去批評檢方啟動犯罪調查這件事所以我一直以來我都沒有說你們處理霸安團體是不對但是\n1394605\t1411191\t我的要求只是請公平的對待請注意手段目的的比例原則否則在一個完全不符合比例原則這個之下我沒有辦法接受那請重視一下正當的法律程序你們目前的作為其實讓我沒有辦法溝通這些事情\n1416820\t1436719\t好 那 而且我各位還要想到一件事情你們現在搜索羈押了這些人 萬一以後判無罪呢判無罪之後願意賠償 然後你也是拿全民的錢去賠給他你今天搞了這些人 達到你的政治目的結果你到最後判無罪了 你也是拿人民的錢去賠給他\n1438789\t1463946\t民進黨沒事啊 沒受傷啊 我得到好多的政治紅利啊反正賠的是國家的預算啊 也不關他的事那這是我現在看到 而且我預測將來可能會面對到可能會面對到很多這種東西啦我相信會有很多人會被判無罪因為你怎麼去說 他有辨識違簽的這個能力那個檢調機關 真的不要變成司法鬥爭的工具\n1464927\t1493501\t好我剛剛那個最後我想說齁我提一個東西啦齁那個因為跟今天的法案是有一點關係的齁那個呃在這個PowerPoint上面我希望說你們兩週內能夠提一個報告齁對於這個車禍過失傷害的告訴難論之罪齁也要加強這個刑事負債民事的這個權益的告知因為有一些人喔他不知道就整個走完之後過了過了損害賠償的那個那個請求權失效喔因為實務上\n1494181\t1504952\t有很多人來跟我報怨 陳情這個事但我跟他說這是因為法律的規定但是行政機關 司法機關確實是可以幫忙去做這個啦最後30秒給我剛剛吳思堯講到那個禁制區的問題就是極有法禁制區廢除\n1514537\t1542331\t我沒有 我對要不要廢除我沒有意見但是提廢除的是民進黨當年提的所以吳志曉可能要回去先跟黨問一下當初是民進黨提說要廢這個禁制區不是國民黨結果他今天執政了 他又覺得禁制區要存在這就是他的雙標不管在財化法等等 國會改革 民進黨永遠在雙標好 然後呢還有就是他剛剛說立法委員不能變為法委員然後說帶隊到那個台北地檢署前面去集會當然那個集會\n1543852\t1563434\t法律上面當然可以給予評價 但是我在這邊要跟各位再報告一件事那去年12月呢 青鳥要衝進立法院 然後在那邊剪斷鐵絲網然後在那邊妨害公務 毀損跟妨害公務呢那這兩個也是犯罪啊 為什麼沒有見到你說立法委員什麼時候立法委員是違法委員呢 好\n1564675\t1591912\t劉四芳明明沒有指揮警察辦案的權利結果他可以叫警察說要移送誰移送誰然後大家問他之後 他就說違法就要辦啊那如果劉四芳違法就要辦 那劉四芳要不要辦 辦 鍾佳斌因為鍾佳斌在那邊撿鐵絲網啊 那是毀損啊那要不要在那邊辦案那幾個 王定宇那幾個在那邊叫 衝進立法院趕快衝進來那個是妨礙公務啊 那劉四芳要不要叫指揮警察辦案呢\n1593519\t1616592\t所以我就覺得就是永遠雙標啦自己也沒有指揮的權利也在那邊說要指揮警察丟臉丟死了 連這最基本自己能做什麼都搞不清楚然後立法委員在那邊敲壞立法院的桌子 拔斷麥克風打破玻璃 晚上跑進立法院都沒事 都不是犯罪 然後到\n1618325\t1626322\t到北檢前面集會 要違反極右法天大的罪好像要殺頭一樣結果你在這邊幹了一堆蠢事丟臉丟到國外 摸女生屁股\n1627641\t1653913\t摸女性立法委員屁股就還上很多國家的報紙頭版沒事這就是我們現在看到的所以剛剛那個吳教委員說他是今天來這邊給大家上法律教育課我覺得他應該自己要去上一下法律教育他自己搞不太清楚法律他自己才應該去先上法律教育課懂一下什麼是正常的法律好 不好意思謝謝各位 那麻煩兩週內能夠把這個報告給我們 可以嗎可以好 謝謝 謝謝各位\n","txt":"我們請法務部、司法院還有調查局還有警政署好,有請各單位我也好我們還是要等一下複密,複密還沒進來複密\n好 謝謝各位 各位早安我先請教那個法務部跟司法院我看了一下你們今天針對陳廷輝委員所提的檢疫判決處刑制度的修正草案那你們不支持的原因主要是因為認為說司法資源的有限性那如果說限縮使用可能會造成司法的負擔是不是 請問法務部跟司法院是 委員可以說明嗎\n沒關係你們的報告已經有了所以我想這個是主軸對不對就主要司法資源就是說原因是什麼為什麼我們認為說會影響到排擠到那個資源這個我當然知道整個制度的狀況我知道可不可以直接下判決不用通知當事人等等的\n那我想說我是也蠻大程度的認同說目前司法的資源其實是有限不管是在司法院或者是法務部其實資源都是有限但是因為我最近看了一些狀況包括高院就是放了那個中文字的事情等等的其實在有限的司法資源之下其實我們\n應該我們對於這個司法資源的使用應該是放在真正的重刑犯上面而不是輕罪 更不是無辜的人民所以我昨天我在質詢的時候有提到說其實我們認為的司法應該是\n司法是要對付犯罪而不是拿來當作政治的工具更何況司法的資源是有限的所以在使用上面應該要更去思考怎麼樣對國家人民有利那我們今天審的法案都是刑事訴訟法的條文那這個法呢其實刑事訴訟法它最大的精神是在於說要發現真實還有執行一個正當的法律程序來保障受訓問者而不是說一昧的事實調查\n不是說今天這個人有構成犯罪那我就動用所有國家的偵查力量去對付他譬如說有一個人侵占遺失物那我是不是要開始大量的搜索羈押詢問然後只為了發現他有沒有侵占遺失物的這個事實我想司法不是這樣用所以在刑事訴訟程序上面有犯罪就應該偵辦但是永遠\n比喻原則是我們在衡量手段以及目的性的一個很重要考量尤其是在司法資源有限的情況下怎麼做其實才是一個真正重要所以除了不該一昧的就是你們就是拿說犯罪事實調查這個當作藉口之外其實你們要考量的是怎麼樣去保障正當法律的程序那這譬如說\n比例原則有沒有去注意到公正公平的手段有沒有去注意到我想這個是我們每個司法人員因為司法人員國家訓練我們一個司法官訓練所出來的像兩位跟我國家是要花非常多錢才能把你訓練出來的我想花那麼多錢訓練出來的從業人員應該這是我們一定要\n遵守的一個原則嘛 就是在訴訟上面偵查上面 審判上面有沒有符合比例原則以及公平公正合乎訴訟程序的手段我想兩位認不認同這個說法認同好 謝謝\n所以昨天我在質詢的時候遇到一個狀況就是其實人民納稅給你去發薪水絕對不是讓你說6點半去老民而且我們6點半會去一定是搜索或執行G提才有可能\n那六點半去送達傳票這個我還真的沒聽過我想請教次長次長那個你是我檢查實習的時候的老師所以我一直尊稱你是老師嘛那以前是因為你對我影響很大所以我一路以來我就是選擇一定要當檢察官不是當法官因為我覺得偵查犯罪\n我很喜歡這個詐犯罪然後能夠給我們自己的成就感以及對國家的貢獻所以我想請教你我們什麼時候會在六點半去檢察官會指示司法警察去送達船票我想請教次長\n好 那當然通常會在清晨這麼早通常是進行搜索 進行強制處分的作為的時候是 就剛講的那這個案子他送這個傳喚的方式的話 但他其實他就是說他基本上他不違法 但個案上妥不妥適昨天跟今天很多外界都有一些不同的意見嘛\n我相信基隆地檢他已經聽到外界的一些聲音啦就是妥適性的部分當然可以再行檢討那基本上我們認為就是說這個案他法律合法性沒有問題但妥適性要不要檢討我們尊重一下那個我們尊重這個基隆地檢的決定\n我覺得不當的事情就是要大聲說出來如果我今天我是一個執法人員或我是一個國家公園我說我這行為沒有違法我就可以任意對人民怎麼樣我不覺得這是應該的更何況我跟市長報告 你是我以前指導老師我在那邊講嘛 有誰會早上六點半派司法警察去某一個人家送船票我昨天還請教了調查局長以及法務部長我說請問一下是請他馬上帶著走還是只是通知他另外到庭時間\n局長是說通知另外一道庭實決那我說那就一般有物送達就好了為什麼要警察早上六點半去好 就我們今天發現基隆有一個議員他是之前民進黨的立委候選人他直接講啊 他還公佈錄音耶這個部分是警察 警政署的部分警察到現場\n一大早在現場 民眾要上班 還跟他說我要上班這個名字是我簽的結果警察不讓他走 一定要他做筆錄然後這個錄音是民進黨的立委候選人自己公布的那我就不知道說 這是怎麼回事\n你基隆地檢的檢察官這麼偉大嗎可以叫調查官叫警察一大早人家上班前跑去那邊把人攔下不讓他上班就是要做筆錄更何況這些人是你偵查時候認定的被害人他是可能被委簽名字的被害人就你一大早跑去他家把他攔下來不讓他上班因為要做你的筆錄請問\n請問次長請問警政署這是我們的正當法律程序嗎我請教你請你告訴我這是不是正當的法律程序跟我們報告就是說傳喚當然在正當法律程序上面如果說看對證人還是對被告的傳喚證人除非有急迫警情但原則上要在24小時內前送達被告當然沒有這個限制那關於這一個\n傳喚它基本上它也是對於 訴訟法上對人身自由的一個自由權的一個干預它理論上都要符合相關的比例原則或相關的憲法上的原則來講是 謝謝鎮長 但這擺明了就是沒有慣例 沒有這樣的慣例對被害人的這種傳喚完全違反比例原則\n你跟我說這個法律沒有說不行好 那法律沒有說不行那我下次是不是五點可以送四點可以送 凌晨三點也可以送專部長來跟我講說這是考量基隆人的特殊性那我就說\n很多桃園人也到台北上班 那我是不是桃園就是凌晨五點去那我的助理每天從新竹到台北來上班 那是不是他四點如果要通知他是不是船票四點要送過去我說部長在鬼扯蛋 部長在亂講昨天早上記者問我說 部長就在亂講 胡說八道你今天幹到部長級的人 你還在國會的這邊胡扯\n那我覺得這不應該啦 更何況因為昨天我在問的是調查官去現場問到底是送達通知書還是製作筆錄還是要帶走 那局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書但是我們今天看到警政署的這個部分是直接把它攔下來做筆錄\n但是我不能確定大法官是不是請他是把他攔下來做筆錄 但是如果是的話那昨天局長跟部長在這裡就騙我了雖然大法官認為說政務官來這邊背詢說謊沒事但是我覺得這也不是我們認同跟支持的一件事情那我再講一個 因為剛剛的新聞說宜蘭的黨部也被收鎖那我跟各位報告一件事情\n我們從基隆的案子來看基隆的案子基隆罷免林佩祥的領銜人他還在臉書感謝調查站可以讓他喬到下午再去接受詢問還謝謝調查官的什麼善意好那結果呢罷免綠營團體的搜索羈押\n一大早去把你帶走那我們今天遇到的狀況是什麼你今天只要是罷免民進黨立法委員的\n領銜人就是開始就把你搜索 羈押 大肆的給你查辦那罷免藍營的呢 他用力查辦的對象是誰竟然是連署人耶 竟然是被害人耶結果領銜人可以 哇 他說下午再問就下午再問還可以在臉書上面發言 感謝調查站的善意這是多麼荒謬啊\n我想請教一下這是多麼的荒謬今天你遇到你司法在處理事情的時候竟然可以如此的區別對待我自己看到就是這樣啦今天只要是罷免綠營的支持者那你就是狂殺狂砍那今天罷免藍營的\n人 那你就對於所謂的支持的被害人 你就狂殺狂砍我真的沒有辦法想像司法怎麼會到今天那我不想問部長 因為部長沒有跟我說 干涉個案就是個案不討論 我已經發現部長的SOP了 你只要問他\n罷免跟藍營有關的 他就跟你講個案然後護航 我們的執法執行人員都沒問題早上去問被害人 是因為基隆人有這樣的特殊需求結果你問到他罷免綠營的人的事情的時候他就開始跟你 這個案我不討論喔 這支個案喔\n他永遠都是雙標這樣對我那我也說我昨天氣到跟部長說我說我也是內行人不要在那邊跟我講外行話你司法今天有沒有雙標次長我不用你回答這句話次長你是我以前的老師你也是讓我決心要走檢察官這條路的人你真的覺得今天的司法走到今天這樣我們是不是其實回到家其實可能眼淚都要流出來了怎麼司法會配合政客玩到今天這個地步\n调战调局也是 警政署也是这是我们当年从社稿官训练所出来的时候追求的司法嘛那我跟市长跟老师报告我在国民党执政的时候我办刘正宏刘正子我是办得多用力民进党执政的时候我办郑文燦他们我办得多用力因为这个都是我等于是在对抗当时的任何一个执政党\n因為我心中司法就是公正的處理每個案子我每一次辦完都被關切 都有人對我不爽但我覺得那個就是一個司法人員的宿命我們就是要起來對抗強權結果我今天看到的完全不是這樣次長這個部分真的你就不用回答所以我認為犯罪該辦就辦這我絕對百分之百支持但是犯罪的時候不應該區別對待\n在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面其實可能發生的就是違簽姓名的偽造文書啦這是犯罪 我一直說這個是犯罪但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待所以剛剛吳孝文跟大家說\n什麼什麼去集會什麼4.26去集會怎麼樣然後這個你們認為這個不是犯罪什麼等等之類其實我覺得這些人都是在誤導國人因為我們今天主張的是我剛剛所說的你在針對同樣的事情的時候你是採取不一樣的對待方式我是對於司法的不公執行方式的不公\n我在抗議的是這個事絕對不是我說偽造文書沒有過程犯罪我從幾個月前我在立法院的國事論壇上面我就公開的說偽造文書不管哪一檔只要你偽簽偽造聯署書就是犯罪所以\n不要在那邊胡扯這些事情還有我再提一個3月17號的時候中選會的副主委有說二階段連署的格式只能由選務機關發出來也就是說他所有的格式都不能夠有自己設計的如果有的話他自己說 他副主委自己說有違反公職人員選罷法還有刑法等等的相關責任而且他講得細到說\n各個名冊格式這個標題文字字體名各欄次次序長寬的等等這個只要有問題那就是違法結果呢我們發現花蓮花蓮有4000份的格式有問題結果到現在呢有搜索嗎沒有啊有大量傳喚嗎沒有啊所以這到底是怎麼回事呢那我們在想這兩天聽到的說什麼新竹的\n林志傑 前立委參選人 他叫大家來簽聯署 然後會請喝咖啡 吃蛋糕那這個我們一聽到 這個絕對是會選嘛但現在呢 也沒有沒有任何的動作 但是我們看到的你對於其他的地方像譬如說今天對宜蘭 就超級有效率然後趕快去搜索 然後把人現在全部都帶回去飼料處\n然後在做這種事情所以這就是我心裡覺得我心裡覺得不公平啦我是替人民出來講話我對這國家這個司法對於人民是不公平的而且部長 昨天局長趕在這邊跟我講我們都是依法處理我跟你講 鬼才信啦我今天幹過20年警察官我很清楚這些長官在玩什麼東西只是這一次的長官玩的比以前嚴重更多\n國民黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家心知肚明民進黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家也心知肚明但是我所看到的是這一屆玩得最誇張最離譜那各位都是國家真正很強的棟樑那我也不管大家我也不在乎大家政治思想是什麼但是是不是我們在執行司法執行公務的時候就心裡那一把尺我也有我自己的政治傾向但是在過往我不管在辦\n國民黨的劉家或是在辦民進黨的次長我永遠心裡就那把尺就是司法怎麼樣我就怎麼辦我即使辦到後來部長對我都很不諒解我還是堅持辦因為這是司法人員的堅持嘛我辦劉家也被他們檢舉了好多年啦我也從來沒有說怨恨他們什麼就是我該怎麼做我記得次長你也曾經打過一通電話給我\n你在處理劉家那時候告我的案子那個時候應該您是在法務部處理這案子我那時候在桃檢 你有打電話跟我問一下整個內情狀況 我有跟你回覆所以我們是提著人頭在辦案 在對抗強權但是現在司法的長官們是怎麼在做的\n好那我再請教一下次長次長花蓮的這個案子後來講說為什麼這四千份有問題卻沒有提告那當時的花蓮地檢說因為沒有人來告啊那我想請問一下次長沒有人檢舉的案子非告訴難用的案子地檢署就不用發動偵查嗎當然不是啊假如因為告訴告發自首或其他刑事自由犯罪嫌疑及應急開始偵辦\n是 謝謝次長 謝謝老師那我想檢報分案也是檢方的日常那今天這麼嚴重了大家鬧轟轟成這樣而且非常多罷免團體也都被辦的情況下花蓮地檢署竟然可以說因為沒有民眾來告所以這四千份的事情我就沒有處理然後後來是侯漢廷跑去提出告發\n那我的意思是說花蓮地檢的這個說法會不會太騙人民啦太侮辱人民的智商啊檢報分案是很多人民都知道的事情更何況司法人員就花蓮地檢署竟然可以說沒有啊沒有人來告啊所以我沒有辦啊\n這個東西我也沒有辦法接受啦跟老師報告一下這個我沒有辦法接受因為我覺得這也是選擇性的不作為前面是選擇性的作為這邊是選擇性的不作為我覺得國家如果要愚民就不要讓我念書你讓我念書了大家念到博士了我們念到博士了然後你再來給我騙一堆弱智的人才會被騙的事情那這樣的國家\n不知道在搞什麼不然你就讓我們全國人民都不要念書全部小學三年級畢業就好如果不是這樣的話請不要把大家當笨蛋看就算刪除預算一樣他叫大家不要送解凍案來他忘記了我們有好多同學跟親戚都在中央機關上班啊他們都會私下跟我說上面交代解凍案都不要送要讓人民對你們不爽對啊所以我就說這就是現在就是現在的政府我不知道現在政府到底是\n福國利民 心存善念的在對待人民就是在搞他的政治鬥爭所以我最近對於司法的問題越來越生氣就是現在司法真的完全不是我以前想像的\n那次長我再請教一下就是筆跡有沒有重複啊到底目前大家的判斷標準是什麼為什麼大家看一看就可以來搜索請教次長當然現在才在搜索階段他要求的這個證據能力的程度不會像到法院嘛那到法院通常透過鑑定的證據方法去確認這是否有偽造\n因為在偵查中他申請相關的搜索票也好他並沒有要求要政治能力就證據能力所以也許檢察官他就基於勘驗勘驗也是一個調查方法勘驗之後認為他有可能有這個偽造肢體他也許就提這個證據向法院申請好謝謝長那這講說這都我們很熟悉的嘛就但是我也要跟就是說跟在場的各位報告一件事情不管在高雄韓國瑜的\n聯署案的案子 或者是在北檢當時辦的郭台銘聯署案的案子其實檢察官到最後都認定說罷免團體領先人他們是被動的收這些聯署書他也沒有審核的能力 他也沒有互譯證系統可以比對真假依照現有的制度\n確實現有的制度 北檢也說了啊依照現行法制之下 被聯署的人確實沒有無權要求民眾出具證件核實才能參加聯署那既然有這麼大漏洞 當時國民黨要提案說罷免要附身分證一本 民進黨又狂黨還在那邊騙說人民說國民黨沒收罷免權\n其實我們希望能夠有一個嚴謹的連署結果民進黨不肯他設了一個局讓大家跳進去就現在連署了啊那他就開始說有一些事可能是有問題就像基隆一樣嘛跑到人家家裡問你說六點半問你說這是不是你連署就那個人說對啊這我簽的啊那今天你司法機關竟然可以拿了這個東西覺得兩個人的筆跡很像就可以把它當作一件刑事案件在偵辦\n那不是就等於坐實了你原來民進黨不想要附身分證影本就是想要讓國民黨簽一簽之後反正司法都在你手上啦隨便你怎麼玩嘛他就直接拿聯署到你家去問然後說這是不是你簽的然後開始擾民開始玩這些如果今天可以要附身分證影本的話今天這個狀況大概發生的機率是非常低所以我覺得一整套套路下來民進黨就是用不停的制度以及什麼就是要玩弄國人\n不然我們都附身分證影本大家都玩真的就好了為什麼你擋到底他顯然就設一個局讓你跳可以讓他控制的司法人員可以隨便拿兩張說這個筆記好像很像那我就開始去調查就變成這樣子就有司法人員陪著調查所以我想講檢察官是看證據辦案不是看政治辦案千萬不要變成今天是看政治辦案這真的是不可取\n所以我過去20年在檢方的時候我辦了很多執政黨的人當然把我們自己搞得全身都是傷那我以前覺得受那個傷我對得起國人所以我願意這樣做那你們今天變成今天這樣讓我想說那我以前好像是笨蛋欸為什麼我會這樣逼自己要一切\n要依法處理 要愛這個國家 要為這個國家做事我現在看到的都完全不一樣所以 霸藍的直接處理你霸團 霸綠的早上直接去處理那個敢聯署的人然後對於霸藍團體的領先人還可以跟他 移到下午再開庭讓人家來臉書感謝 這就是我看到現在的司法\n好吧那個我覺得我還是說啦犯罪就該偵辦但是我不會去批評檢方啟動犯罪調查這件事所以我一直以來我都沒有說你們處理霸安團體是不對但是\n我的要求只是請公平的對待請注意手段目的的比例原則否則在一個完全不符合比例原則這個之下我沒有辦法接受那請重視一下正當的法律程序你們目前的作為其實讓我沒有辦法溝通這些事情\n好 那 而且我各位還要想到一件事情你們現在搜索羈押了這些人 萬一以後判無罪呢判無罪之後願意賠償 然後你也是拿全民的錢去賠給他你今天搞了這些人 達到你的政治目的結果你到最後判無罪了 你也是拿人民的錢去賠給他\n民進黨沒事啊 沒受傷啊 我得到好多的政治紅利啊反正賠的是國家的預算啊 也不關他的事那這是我現在看到 而且我預測將來可能會面對到可能會面對到很多這種東西啦我相信會有很多人會被判無罪因為你怎麼去說 他有辨識違簽的這個能力那個檢調機關 真的不要變成司法鬥爭的工具\n好我剛剛那個最後我想說齁我提一個東西啦齁那個因為跟今天的法案是有一點關係的齁那個呃在這個PowerPoint上面我希望說你們兩週內能夠提一個報告齁對於這個車禍過失傷害的告訴難論之罪齁也要加強這個刑事負債民事的這個權益的告知因為有一些人喔他不知道就整個走完之後過了過了損害賠償的那個那個請求權失效喔因為實務上\n有很多人來跟我報怨 陳情這個事但我跟他說這是因為法律的規定但是行政機關 司法機關確實是可以幫忙去做這個啦最後30秒給我剛剛吳思堯講到那個禁制區的問題就是極有法禁制區廢除\n我沒有 我對要不要廢除我沒有意見但是提廢除的是民進黨當年提的所以吳志曉可能要回去先跟黨問一下當初是民進黨提說要廢這個禁制區不是國民黨結果他今天執政了 他又覺得禁制區要存在這就是他的雙標不管在財化法等等 國會改革 民進黨永遠在雙標好 然後呢還有就是他剛剛說立法委員不能變為法委員然後說帶隊到那個台北地檢署前面去集會當然那個集會\n法律上面當然可以給予評價 但是我在這邊要跟各位再報告一件事那去年12月呢 青鳥要衝進立法院 然後在那邊剪斷鐵絲網然後在那邊妨害公務 毀損跟妨害公務呢那這兩個也是犯罪啊 為什麼沒有見到你說立法委員什麼時候立法委員是違法委員呢 好\n劉四芳明明沒有指揮警察辦案的權利結果他可以叫警察說要移送誰移送誰然後大家問他之後 他就說違法就要辦啊那如果劉四芳違法就要辦 那劉四芳要不要辦 辦 鍾佳斌因為鍾佳斌在那邊撿鐵絲網啊 那是毀損啊那要不要在那邊辦案那幾個 王定宇那幾個在那邊叫 衝進立法院趕快衝進來那個是妨礙公務啊 那劉四芳要不要叫指揮警察辦案呢\n所以我就覺得就是永遠雙標啦自己也沒有指揮的權利也在那邊說要指揮警察丟臉丟死了 連這最基本自己能做什麼都搞不清楚然後立法委員在那邊敲壞立法院的桌子 拔斷麥克風打破玻璃 晚上跑進立法院都沒事 都不是犯罪 然後到\n到北檢前面集會 要違反極右法天大的罪好像要殺頭一樣結果你在這邊幹了一堆蠢事丟臉丟到國外 摸女生屁股\n摸女性立法委員屁股就還上很多國家的報紙頭版沒事這就是我們現在看到的所以剛剛那個吳教委員說他是今天來這邊給大家上法律教育課我覺得他應該自己要去上一下法律教育他自己搞不太清楚法律他自己才應該去先上法律教育課懂一下什麼是正常的法律好 不好意思謝謝各位 那麻煩兩週內能夠把這個報告給我們 可以嗎可以好 謝謝 謝謝各位\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:22.388\n我們請法務部、司法院還有調查局還有警政署好,有請各單位我也好我們還是要等一下複密,複密還沒進來複密\n\n00:46.206 --> 01:13.482\n好謝謝各位各位早安我先請教那個法務部跟司法院我看了一下你們今天針對陳廷輝委員所提的檢疫判決處刑制度的修正草案那你們不支持的原因主要是因為認為說司法資源的有限性那如果說限縮使用可能會造成司法的負擔是不是請問法務部跟司法院是委員可以說明嗎\n\n01:15.143 --> 01:33.378\n沒關係你們的報告已經有了所以我想這個是主軸對不對就主要司法資源就是說原因是什麼為什麼我們認為說會影響到排擠到那個資源這個我當然知道整個制度的狀況我知道可不可以直接下判決不用通知當事人等等的\n\n01:34.139 --> 01:59.477\n那我想說我是也蠻大程度的認同說目前司法的資源其實是有限不管是在司法院或者是法務部其實資源都是有限但是因為我最近看了一些狀況包括高院就是放了那個中文字的事情等等的其實在有限的司法資源之下其實我們\n\n02:02.221 --> 02:17.749\n應該我們對於這個司法資源的使用應該是放在真正的重刑犯上面而不是輕罪更不是無辜的人民所以我昨天我在質詢的時候有提到說其實我們認為的司法應該是\n\n02:18.929 --> 02:46.657\n司法是要對付犯罪而不是拿來當作政治的工具更何況司法的資源是有限的所以在使用上面應該要更去思考怎麼樣對國家人民有利那我們今天審的法案都是刑事訴訟法的條文那這個法呢其實刑事訴訟法它最大的精神是在於說要發現真實還有執行一個正當的法律程序來保障受訓問者而不是說一昧的事實調查\n\n02:47.657 --> 03:07.066\n不是說今天這個人有構成犯罪那我就動用所有國家的偵查力量去對付他譬如說有一個人侵占遺失物那我是不是要開始大量的搜索羈押詢問然後只為了發現他有沒有侵占遺失物的這個事實我想司法不是這樣用所以在刑事訴訟程序上面有犯罪就應該偵辦但是永遠\n\n03:09.867 --> 03:35.175\n比喻原則是我們在衡量手段以及目的性的一個很重要考量尤其是在司法資源有限的情況下怎麼做其實才是一個真正重要所以除了不該一昧的就是你們就是拿說犯罪事實調查這個當作藉口之外其實你們要考量的是怎麼樣去保障正當法律的程序那這譬如說\n\n03:36.255 --> 03:52.800\n比例原則有沒有去注意到公正公平的手段有沒有去注意到我想這個是我們每個司法人員因為司法人員國家訓練我們一個司法官訓練所出來的像兩位跟我國家是要花非常多錢才能把你訓練出來的我想花那麼多錢訓練出來的從業人員應該這是我們一定要\n\n03:56.661 --> 04:07.458\n遵守的一個原則嘛就是在訴訟上面偵查上面審判上面有沒有符合比例原則以及公平公正合乎訴訟程序的手段我想兩位認不認同這個說法認同好謝謝\n\n04:11.443 --> 04:26.456\n所以昨天我在質詢的時候遇到一個狀況就是其實人民納稅給你去發薪水絕對不是讓你說6點半去老民而且我們6點半會去一定是搜索或執行G提才有可能\n\n04:27.176 --> 04:44.217\n那六點半去送達傳票這個我還真的沒聽過我想請教次長次長那個你是我檢查實習的時候的老師所以我一直尊稱你是老師嘛那以前是因為你對我影響很大所以我一路以來我就是選擇一定要當檢察官不是當法官因為我覺得偵查犯罪\n\n04:45.441 --> 04:59.203\n我很喜歡這個詐犯罪然後能夠給我們自己的成就感以及對國家的貢獻所以我想請教你我們什麼時候會在六點半去檢察官會指示司法警察去送達船票我想請教次長\n\n05:00.558 --> 05:20.049\n好那當然通常會在清晨這麼早通常是進行搜索進行強制處分的作為的時候是就剛講的那這個案子他送這個傳喚的方式的話但他其實他就是說他基本上他不違法但個案上妥不妥適昨天跟今天很多外界都有一些不同的意見嘛\n\n05:20.529 --> 05:36.137\n我相信基隆地檢他已經聽到外界的一些聲音啦就是妥適性的部分當然可以再行檢討那基本上我們認為就是說這個案他法律合法性沒有問題但妥適性要不要檢討我們尊重一下那個我們尊重這個基隆地檢的決定\n\n05:37.538 --> 06:05.435\n我覺得不當的事情就是要大聲說出來如果我今天我是一個執法人員或我是一個國家公園我說我這行為沒有違法我就可以任意對人民怎麼樣我不覺得這是應該的更何況我跟市長報告你是我以前指導老師我在那邊講嘛有誰會早上六點半派司法警察去某一個人家送船票我昨天還請教了調查局長以及法務部長我說請問一下是請他馬上帶著走還是只是通知他另外到庭時間\n\n06:06.736 --> 06:25.870\n局長是說通知另外一道庭實決那我說那就一般有物送達就好了為什麼要警察早上六點半去好就我們今天發現基隆有一個議員他是之前民進黨的立委候選人他直接講啊他還公佈錄音耶這個部分是警察警政署的部分警察到現場\n\n06:27.861 --> 06:45.656\n一大早在現場民眾要上班還跟他說我要上班這個名字是我簽的結果警察不讓他走一定要他做筆錄然後這個錄音是民進黨的立委候選人自己公布的那我就不知道說這是怎麼回事\n\n06:47.057 --> 07:10.037\n你基隆地檢的檢察官這麼偉大嗎可以叫調查官叫警察一大早人家上班前跑去那邊把人攔下不讓他上班就是要做筆錄更何況這些人是你偵查時候認定的被害人他是可能被委簽名字的被害人就你一大早跑去他家把他攔下來不讓他上班因為要做你的筆錄請問\n\n07:13.120 --> 07:34.759\n請問次長請問警政署這是我們的正當法律程序嗎我請教你請你告訴我這是不是正當的法律程序跟我們報告就是說傳喚當然在正當法律程序上面如果說看對證人還是對被告的傳喚證人除非有急迫警情但原則上要在24小時內前送達被告當然沒有這個限制那關於這一個\n\n07:36.620 --> 07:55.615\n傳喚它基本上它也是對於訴訟法上對人身自由的一個自由權的一個干預它理論上都要符合相關的比例原則或相關的憲法上的原則來講是謝謝鎮長但這擺明了就是沒有慣例沒有這樣的慣例對被害人的這種傳喚完全違反比例原則\n\n07:56.676 --> 08:08.739\n你跟我說這個法律沒有說不行好那法律沒有說不行那我下次是不是五點可以送四點可以送凌晨三點也可以送專部長來跟我講說這是考量基隆人的特殊性那我就說\n\n08:10.516 --> 08:35.112\n很多桃園人也到台北上班那我是不是桃園就是凌晨五點去那我的助理每天從新竹到台北來上班那是不是他四點如果要通知他是不是船票四點要送過去我說部長在鬼扯蛋部長在亂講昨天早上記者問我說部長就在亂講胡說八道你今天幹到部長級的人你還在國會的這邊胡扯\n\n08:36.209 --> 08:57.026\n那我覺得這不應該啦更何況因為昨天我在問的是調查官去現場問到底是送達通知書還是製作筆錄還是要帶走那局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書但是我們今天看到警政署的這個部分是直接把它攔下來做筆錄\n\n08:58.187 --> 09:24.144\n但是我不能確定大法官是不是請他是把他攔下來做筆錄但是如果是的話那昨天局長跟部長在這裡就騙我了雖然大法官認為說政務官來這邊背詢說謊沒事但是我覺得這也不是我們認同跟支持的一件事情那我再講一個因為剛剛的新聞說宜蘭的黨部也被收鎖那我跟各位報告一件事情\n\n09:25.410 --> 09:48.476\n我們從基隆的案子來看基隆的案子基隆罷免林佩祥的領銜人他還在臉書感謝調查站可以讓他喬到下午再去接受詢問還謝謝調查官的什麼善意好那結果呢罷免綠營團體的搜索羈押\n\n09:53.322 --> 10:03.311\n一大早去把你帶走那我們今天遇到的狀況是什麼你今天只要是罷免民進黨立法委員的\n\n10:05.036 --> 10:28.825\n領銜人就是開始就把你搜索羈押大肆的給你查辦那罷免藍營的呢他用力查辦的對象是誰竟然是連署人耶竟然是被害人耶結果領銜人可以哇他說下午再問就下午再問還可以在臉書上面發言感謝調查站的善意這是多麼荒謬啊\n\n10:29.912 --> 10:50.512\n我想請教一下這是多麼的荒謬今天你遇到你司法在處理事情的時候竟然可以如此的區別對待我自己看到就是這樣啦今天只要是罷免綠營的支持者那你就是狂殺狂砍那今天罷免藍營的\n\n10:52.862 --> 11:08.507\n人那你就對於所謂的支持的被害人你就狂殺狂砍我真的沒有辦法想像司法怎麼會到今天那我不想問部長因為部長沒有跟我說干涉個案就是個案不討論我已經發現部長的SOP了你只要問他\n\n11:13.588 --> 11:31.748\n罷免跟藍營有關的他就跟你講個案然後護航我們的執法執行人員都沒問題早上去問被害人是因為基隆人有這樣的特殊需求結果你問到他罷免綠營的人的事情的時候他就開始跟你這個案我不討論喔這支個案喔\n\n11:33.590 --> 12:01.565\n他永遠都是雙標這樣對我那我也說我昨天氣到跟部長說我說我也是內行人不要在那邊跟我講外行話你司法今天有沒有雙標次長我不用你回答這句話次長你是我以前的老師你也是讓我決心要走檢察官這條路的人你真的覺得今天的司法走到今天這樣我們是不是其實回到家其實可能眼淚都要流出來了怎麼司法會配合政客玩到今天這個地步\n\n12:02.878 --> 12:26.030\n调战调局也是警政署也是这是我们当年从社稿官训练所出来的时候追求的司法嘛那我跟市长跟老师报告我在国民党执政的时候我办刘正宏刘正子我是办得多用力民进党执政的时候我办郑文燦他们我办得多用力因为这个都是我等于是在对抗当时的任何一个执政党\n\n12:27.431 --> 12:52.652\n因為我心中司法就是公正的處理每個案子我每一次辦完都被關切都有人對我不爽但我覺得那個就是一個司法人員的宿命我們就是要起來對抗強權結果我今天看到的完全不是這樣次長這個部分真的你就不用回答所以我認為犯罪該辦就辦這我絕對百分之百支持但是犯罪的時候不應該區別對待\n\n12:55.544 --> 13:08.022\n在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面其實可能發生的就是違簽姓名的偽造文書啦這是犯罪我一直說這個是犯罪但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待所以剛剛吳孝文跟大家說\n\n13:09.431 --> 13:29.240\n什麼什麼去集會什麼4.26去集會怎麼樣然後這個你們認為這個不是犯罪什麼等等之類其實我覺得這些人都是在誤導國人因為我們今天主張的是我剛剛所說的你在針對同樣的事情的時候你是採取不一樣的對待方式我是對於司法的不公執行方式的不公\n\n13:30.020 --> 13:45.912\n我在抗議的是這個事絕對不是我說偽造文書沒有過程犯罪我從幾個月前我在立法院的國事論壇上面我就公開的說偽造文書不管哪一檔只要你偽簽偽造聯署書就是犯罪所以\n\n13:46.530 --> 14:12.425\n不要在那邊胡扯這些事情還有我再提一個3月17號的時候中選會的副主委有說二階段連署的格式只能由選務機關發出來也就是說他所有的格式都不能夠有自己設計的如果有的話他自己說他副主委自己說有違反公職人員選罷法還有刑法等等的相關責任而且他講得細到說\n\n14:14.977 --> 14:43.609\n各個名冊格式這個標題文字字體名各欄次次序長寬的等等這個只要有問題那就是違法結果呢我們發現花蓮花蓮有4000份的格式有問題結果到現在呢有搜索嗎沒有啊有大量傳喚嗎沒有啊所以這到底是怎麼回事呢那我們在想這兩天聽到的說什麼新竹的\n\n14:44.349 --> 15:08.390\n林志傑前立委參選人他叫大家來簽聯署然後會請喝咖啡吃蛋糕那這個我們一聽到這個絕對是會選嘛但現在呢也沒有沒有任何的動作但是我們看到的你對於其他的地方像譬如說今天對宜蘭就超級有效率然後趕快去搜索然後把人現在全部都帶回去飼料處\n\n15:10.950 --> 15:39.014\n然後在做這種事情所以這就是我心裡覺得我心裡覺得不公平啦我是替人民出來講話我對這國家這個司法對於人民是不公平的而且部長昨天局長趕在這邊跟我講我們都是依法處理我跟你講鬼才信啦我今天幹過20年警察官我很清楚這些長官在玩什麼東西只是這一次的長官玩的比以前嚴重更多\n\n15:40.749 --> 16:08.122\n國民黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家心知肚明民進黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家也心知肚明但是我所看到的是這一屆玩得最誇張最離譜那各位都是國家真正很強的棟樑那我也不管大家我也不在乎大家政治思想是什麼但是是不是我們在執行司法執行公務的時候就心裡那一把尺我也有我自己的政治傾向但是在過往我不管在辦\n\n16:09.222 --> 16:36.963\n國民黨的劉家或是在辦民進黨的次長我永遠心裡就那把尺就是司法怎麼樣我就怎麼辦我即使辦到後來部長對我都很不諒解我還是堅持辦因為這是司法人員的堅持嘛我辦劉家也被他們檢舉了好多年啦我也從來沒有說怨恨他們什麼就是我該怎麼做我記得次長你也曾經打過一通電話給我\n\n16:38.888 --> 16:56.563\n你在處理劉家那時候告我的案子那個時候應該您是在法務部處理這案子我那時候在桃檢你有打電話跟我問一下整個內情狀況我有跟你回覆所以我們是提著人頭在辦案在對抗強權但是現在司法的長官們是怎麼在做的\n\n17:02.162 --> 17:29.195\n好那我再請教一下次長次長花蓮的這個案子後來講說為什麼這四千份有問題卻沒有提告那當時的花蓮地檢說因為沒有人來告啊那我想請問一下次長沒有人檢舉的案子非告訴難用的案子地檢署就不用發動偵查嗎當然不是啊假如因為告訴告發自首或其他刑事自由犯罪嫌疑及應急開始偵辦\n\n17:29.795 --> 17:49.017\n是謝謝次長謝謝老師那我想檢報分案也是檢方的日常那今天這麼嚴重了大家鬧轟轟成這樣而且非常多罷免團體也都被辦的情況下花蓮地檢署竟然可以說因為沒有民眾來告所以這四千份的事情我就沒有處理然後後來是侯漢廷跑去提出告發\n\n17:49.878 --> 18:05.277\n那我的意思是說花蓮地檢的這個說法會不會太騙人民啦太侮辱人民的智商啊檢報分案是很多人民都知道的事情更何況司法人員就花蓮地檢署竟然可以說沒有啊沒有人來告啊所以我沒有辦啊\n\n18:07.078 --> 18:31.726\n這個東西我也沒有辦法接受啦跟老師報告一下這個我沒有辦法接受因為我覺得這也是選擇性的不作為前面是選擇性的作為這邊是選擇性的不作為我覺得國家如果要愚民就不要讓我念書你讓我念書了大家念到博士了我們念到博士了然後你再來給我騙一堆弱智的人才會被騙的事情那這樣的國家\n\n18:33.188 --> 19:02.101\n不知道在搞什麼不然你就讓我們全國人民都不要念書全部小學三年級畢業就好如果不是這樣的話請不要把大家當笨蛋看就算刪除預算一樣他叫大家不要送解凍案來他忘記了我們有好多同學跟親戚都在中央機關上班啊他們都會私下跟我說上面交代解凍案都不要送要讓人民對你們不爽對啊所以我就說這就是現在就是現在的政府我不知道現在政府到底是\n\n19:03.476 --> 19:15.819\n福國利民心存善念的在對待人民就是在搞他的政治鬥爭所以我最近對於司法的問題越來越生氣就是現在司法真的完全不是我以前想像的\n\n19:17.244 --> 19:38.921\n那次長我再請教一下就是筆跡有沒有重複啊到底目前大家的判斷標準是什麼為什麼大家看一看就可以來搜索請教次長當然現在才在搜索階段他要求的這個證據能力的程度不會像到法院嘛那到法院通常透過鑑定的證據方法去確認這是否有偽造\n\n19:39.301 --> 20:03.103\n因為在偵查中他申請相關的搜索票也好他並沒有要求要政治能力就證據能力所以也許檢察官他就基於勘驗勘驗也是一個調查方法勘驗之後認為他有可能有這個偽造肢體他也許就提這個證據向法院申請好謝謝長那這講說這都我們很熟悉的嘛就但是我也要跟就是說跟在場的各位報告一件事情不管在高雄韓國瑜的\n\n20:03.963 --> 20:24.748\n聯署案的案子或者是在北檢當時辦的郭台銘聯署案的案子其實檢察官到最後都認定說罷免團體領先人他們是被動的收這些聯署書他也沒有審核的能力他也沒有互譯證系統可以比對真假依照現有的制度\n\n20:28.569 --> 20:47.206\n確實現有的制度北檢也說了啊依照現行法制之下被聯署的人確實沒有無權要求民眾出具證件核實才能參加聯署那既然有這麼大漏洞當時國民黨要提案說罷免要附身分證一本民進黨又狂黨還在那邊騙說人民說國民黨沒收罷免權\n\n20:48.627 --> 21:11.630\n其實我們希望能夠有一個嚴謹的連署結果民進黨不肯他設了一個局讓大家跳進去就現在連署了啊那他就開始說有一些事可能是有問題就像基隆一樣嘛跑到人家家裡問你說六點半問你說這是不是你連署就那個人說對啊這我簽的啊那今天你司法機關竟然可以拿了這個東西覺得兩個人的筆跡很像就可以把它當作一件刑事案件在偵辦\n\n21:12.771 --> 21:39.094\n那不是就等於坐實了你原來民進黨不想要附身分證影本就是想要讓國民黨簽一簽之後反正司法都在你手上啦隨便你怎麼玩嘛他就直接拿聯署到你家去問然後說這是不是你簽的然後開始擾民開始玩這些如果今天可以要附身分證影本的話今天這個狀況大概發生的機率是非常低所以我覺得一整套套路下來民進黨就是用不停的制度以及什麼就是要玩弄國人\n\n21:39.835 --> 22:08.727\n不然我們都附身分證影本大家都玩真的就好了為什麼你擋到底他顯然就設一個局讓你跳可以讓他控制的司法人員可以隨便拿兩張說這個筆記好像很像那我就開始去調查就變成這樣子就有司法人員陪著調查所以我想講檢察官是看證據辦案不是看政治辦案千萬不要變成今天是看政治辦案這真的是不可取\n\n22:10.188 --> 22:31.227\n所以我過去20年在檢方的時候我辦了很多執政黨的人當然把我們自己搞得全身都是傷那我以前覺得受那個傷我對得起國人所以我願意這樣做那你們今天變成今天這樣讓我想說那我以前好像是笨蛋欸為什麼我會這樣逼自己要一切\n\n22:32.335 --> 22:58.252\n要依法處理要愛這個國家要為這個國家做事我現在看到的都完全不一樣所以霸藍的直接處理你霸團霸綠的早上直接去處理那個敢聯署的人然後對於霸藍團體的領先人還可以跟他移到下午再開庭讓人家來臉書感謝這就是我看到現在的司法\n\n22:59.960 --> 23:13.368\n好吧那個我覺得我還是說啦犯罪就該偵辦但是我不會去批評檢方啟動犯罪調查這件事所以我一直以來我都沒有說你們處理霸安團體是不對但是\n\n23:14.605 --> 23:31.191\n我的要求只是請公平的對待請注意手段目的的比例原則否則在一個完全不符合比例原則這個之下我沒有辦法接受那請重視一下正當的法律程序你們目前的作為其實讓我沒有辦法溝通這些事情\n\n23:36.820 --> 23:56.719\n好那而且我各位還要想到一件事情你們現在搜索羈押了這些人萬一以後判無罪呢判無罪之後願意賠償然後你也是拿全民的錢去賠給他你今天搞了這些人達到你的政治目的結果你到最後判無罪了你也是拿人民的錢去賠給他\n\n23:58.789 --> 24:23.946\n民進黨沒事啊沒受傷啊我得到好多的政治紅利啊反正賠的是國家的預算啊也不關他的事那這是我現在看到而且我預測將來可能會面對到可能會面對到很多這種東西啦我相信會有很多人會被判無罪因為你怎麼去說他有辨識違簽的這個能力那個檢調機關真的不要變成司法鬥爭的工具\n\n24:24.927 --> 24:53.501\n好我剛剛那個最後我想說齁我提一個東西啦齁那個因為跟今天的法案是有一點關係的齁那個呃在這個PowerPoint上面我希望說你們兩週內能夠提一個報告齁對於這個車禍過失傷害的告訴難論之罪齁也要加強這個刑事負債民事的這個權益的告知因為有一些人喔他不知道就整個走完之後過了過了損害賠償的那個那個請求權失效喔因為實務上\n\n24:54.181 --> 25:04.952\n有很多人來跟我報怨陳情這個事但我跟他說這是因為法律的規定但是行政機關司法機關確實是可以幫忙去做這個啦最後30秒給我剛剛吳思堯講到那個禁制區的問題就是極有法禁制區廢除\n\n25:14.537 --> 25:42.331\n我沒有我對要不要廢除我沒有意見但是提廢除的是民進黨當年提的所以吳志曉可能要回去先跟黨問一下當初是民進黨提說要廢這個禁制區不是國民黨結果他今天執政了他又覺得禁制區要存在這就是他的雙標不管在財化法等等國會改革民進黨永遠在雙標好然後呢還有就是他剛剛說立法委員不能變為法委員然後說帶隊到那個台北地檢署前面去集會當然那個集會\n\n25:43.852 --> 26:03.434\n法律上面當然可以給予評價但是我在這邊要跟各位再報告一件事那去年12月呢青鳥要衝進立法院然後在那邊剪斷鐵絲網然後在那邊妨害公務毀損跟妨害公務呢那這兩個也是犯罪啊為什麼沒有見到你說立法委員什麼時候立法委員是違法委員呢好\n\n26:04.675 --> 26:31.912\n劉四芳明明沒有指揮警察辦案的權利結果他可以叫警察說要移送誰移送誰然後大家問他之後他就說違法就要辦啊那如果劉四芳違法就要辦那劉四芳要不要辦辦鍾佳斌因為鍾佳斌在那邊撿鐵絲網啊那是毀損啊那要不要在那邊辦案那幾個王定宇那幾個在那邊叫衝進立法院趕快衝進來那個是妨礙公務啊那劉四芳要不要叫指揮警察辦案呢\n\n26:33.519 --> 26:56.592\n所以我就覺得就是永遠雙標啦自己也沒有指揮的權利也在那邊說要指揮警察丟臉丟死了連這最基本自己能做什麼都搞不清楚然後立法委員在那邊敲壞立法院的桌子拔斷麥克風打破玻璃晚上跑進立法院都沒事都不是犯罪然後到\n\n26:58.325 --> 27:06.322\n到北檢前面集會要違反極右法天大的罪好像要殺頭一樣結果你在這邊幹了一堆蠢事丟臉丟到國外摸女生屁股\n\n27:07.641 --> 27:33.913\n摸女性立法委員屁股就還上很多國家的報紙頭版沒事這就是我們現在看到的所以剛剛那個吳教委員說他是今天來這邊給大家上法律教育課我覺得他應該自己要去上一下法律教育他自己搞不太清楚法律他自己才應該去先上法律教育課懂一下什麼是正常的法律好不好意思謝謝各位那麻煩兩週內能夠把這個報告給我們可以嗎可以好謝謝謝謝各位\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":22.388,"text":"我們請法務部、司法院還有調查局還有警政署好,有請各單位我也好我們還是要等一下複密,複密還沒進來複密"},{"start":46.206,"end":73.482,"text":"好 謝謝各位 各位早安我先請教那個法務部跟司法院我看了一下你們今天針對陳廷輝委員所提的檢疫判決處刑制度的修正草案那你們不支持的原因主要是因為認為說司法資源的有限性那如果說限縮使用可能會造成司法的負擔是不是 請問法務部跟司法院是 委員可以說明嗎"},{"start":75.143,"end":93.378,"text":"沒關係你們的報告已經有了所以我想這個是主軸對不對就主要司法資源就是說原因是什麼為什麼我們認為說會影響到排擠到那個資源這個我當然知道整個制度的狀況我知道可不可以直接下判決不用通知當事人等等的"},{"start":94.139,"end":119.477,"text":"那我想說我是也蠻大程度的認同說目前司法的資源其實是有限不管是在司法院或者是法務部其實資源都是有限但是因為我最近看了一些狀況包括高院就是放了那個中文字的事情等等的其實在有限的司法資源之下其實我們"},{"start":122.221,"end":137.749,"text":"應該我們對於這個司法資源的使用應該是放在真正的重刑犯上面而不是輕罪 更不是無辜的人民所以我昨天我在質詢的時候有提到說其實我們認為的司法應該是"},{"start":138.929,"end":166.657,"text":"司法是要對付犯罪而不是拿來當作政治的工具更何況司法的資源是有限的所以在使用上面應該要更去思考怎麼樣對國家人民有利那我們今天審的法案都是刑事訴訟法的條文那這個法呢其實刑事訴訟法它最大的精神是在於說要發現真實還有執行一個正當的法律程序來保障受訓問者而不是說一昧的事實調查"},{"start":167.657,"end":187.066,"text":"不是說今天這個人有構成犯罪那我就動用所有國家的偵查力量去對付他譬如說有一個人侵占遺失物那我是不是要開始大量的搜索羈押詢問然後只為了發現他有沒有侵占遺失物的這個事實我想司法不是這樣用所以在刑事訴訟程序上面有犯罪就應該偵辦但是永遠"},{"start":189.867,"end":215.175,"text":"比喻原則是我們在衡量手段以及目的性的一個很重要考量尤其是在司法資源有限的情況下怎麼做其實才是一個真正重要所以除了不該一昧的就是你們就是拿說犯罪事實調查這個當作藉口之外其實你們要考量的是怎麼樣去保障正當法律的程序那這譬如說"},{"start":216.255,"end":232.8,"text":"比例原則有沒有去注意到公正公平的手段有沒有去注意到我想這個是我們每個司法人員因為司法人員國家訓練我們一個司法官訓練所出來的像兩位跟我國家是要花非常多錢才能把你訓練出來的我想花那麼多錢訓練出來的從業人員應該這是我們一定要"},{"start":236.661,"end":247.458,"text":"遵守的一個原則嘛 就是在訴訟上面偵查上面 審判上面有沒有符合比例原則以及公平公正合乎訴訟程序的手段我想兩位認不認同這個說法認同好 謝謝"},{"start":251.443,"end":266.456,"text":"所以昨天我在質詢的時候遇到一個狀況就是其實人民納稅給你去發薪水絕對不是讓你說6點半去老民而且我們6點半會去一定是搜索或執行G提才有可能"},{"start":267.176,"end":284.217,"text":"那六點半去送達傳票這個我還真的沒聽過我想請教次長次長那個你是我檢查實習的時候的老師所以我一直尊稱你是老師嘛那以前是因為你對我影響很大所以我一路以來我就是選擇一定要當檢察官不是當法官因為我覺得偵查犯罪"},{"start":285.441,"end":299.203,"text":"我很喜歡這個詐犯罪然後能夠給我們自己的成就感以及對國家的貢獻所以我想請教你我們什麼時候會在六點半去檢察官會指示司法警察去送達船票我想請教次長"},{"start":300.558,"end":320.049,"text":"好 那當然通常會在清晨這麼早通常是進行搜索 進行強制處分的作為的時候是 就剛講的那這個案子他送這個傳喚的方式的話 但他其實他就是說他基本上他不違法 但個案上妥不妥適昨天跟今天很多外界都有一些不同的意見嘛"},{"start":320.529,"end":336.137,"text":"我相信基隆地檢他已經聽到外界的一些聲音啦就是妥適性的部分當然可以再行檢討那基本上我們認為就是說這個案他法律合法性沒有問題但妥適性要不要檢討我們尊重一下那個我們尊重這個基隆地檢的決定"},{"start":337.538,"end":365.435,"text":"我覺得不當的事情就是要大聲說出來如果我今天我是一個執法人員或我是一個國家公園我說我這行為沒有違法我就可以任意對人民怎麼樣我不覺得這是應該的更何況我跟市長報告 你是我以前指導老師我在那邊講嘛 有誰會早上六點半派司法警察去某一個人家送船票我昨天還請教了調查局長以及法務部長我說請問一下是請他馬上帶著走還是只是通知他另外到庭時間"},{"start":366.736,"end":385.87,"text":"局長是說通知另外一道庭實決那我說那就一般有物送達就好了為什麼要警察早上六點半去好 就我們今天發現基隆有一個議員他是之前民進黨的立委候選人他直接講啊 他還公佈錄音耶這個部分是警察 警政署的部分警察到現場"},{"start":387.861,"end":405.656,"text":"一大早在現場 民眾要上班 還跟他說我要上班這個名字是我簽的結果警察不讓他走 一定要他做筆錄然後這個錄音是民進黨的立委候選人自己公布的那我就不知道說 這是怎麼回事"},{"start":407.057,"end":430.037,"text":"你基隆地檢的檢察官這麼偉大嗎可以叫調查官叫警察一大早人家上班前跑去那邊把人攔下不讓他上班就是要做筆錄更何況這些人是你偵查時候認定的被害人他是可能被委簽名字的被害人就你一大早跑去他家把他攔下來不讓他上班因為要做你的筆錄請問"},{"start":433.12,"end":454.759,"text":"請問次長請問警政署這是我們的正當法律程序嗎我請教你請你告訴我這是不是正當的法律程序跟我們報告就是說傳喚當然在正當法律程序上面如果說看對證人還是對被告的傳喚證人除非有急迫警情但原則上要在24小時內前送達被告當然沒有這個限制那關於這一個"},{"start":456.62,"end":475.615,"text":"傳喚它基本上它也是對於 訴訟法上對人身自由的一個自由權的一個干預它理論上都要符合相關的比例原則或相關的憲法上的原則來講是 謝謝鎮長 但這擺明了就是沒有慣例 沒有這樣的慣例對被害人的這種傳喚完全違反比例原則"},{"start":476.676,"end":488.739,"text":"你跟我說這個法律沒有說不行好 那法律沒有說不行那我下次是不是五點可以送四點可以送 凌晨三點也可以送專部長來跟我講說這是考量基隆人的特殊性那我就說"},{"start":490.516,"end":515.112,"text":"很多桃園人也到台北上班 那我是不是桃園就是凌晨五點去那我的助理每天從新竹到台北來上班 那是不是他四點如果要通知他是不是船票四點要送過去我說部長在鬼扯蛋 部長在亂講昨天早上記者問我說 部長就在亂講 胡說八道你今天幹到部長級的人 你還在國會的這邊胡扯"},{"start":516.209,"end":537.026,"text":"那我覺得這不應該啦 更何況因為昨天我在問的是調查官去現場問到底是送達通知書還是製作筆錄還是要帶走 那局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書但是我們今天看到警政署的這個部分是直接把它攔下來做筆錄"},{"start":538.187,"end":564.144,"text":"但是我不能確定大法官是不是請他是把他攔下來做筆錄 但是如果是的話那昨天局長跟部長在這裡就騙我了雖然大法官認為說政務官來這邊背詢說謊沒事但是我覺得這也不是我們認同跟支持的一件事情那我再講一個 因為剛剛的新聞說宜蘭的黨部也被收鎖那我跟各位報告一件事情"},{"start":565.41,"end":588.476,"text":"我們從基隆的案子來看基隆的案子基隆罷免林佩祥的領銜人他還在臉書感謝調查站可以讓他喬到下午再去接受詢問還謝謝調查官的什麼善意好那結果呢罷免綠營團體的搜索羈押"},{"start":593.322,"end":603.311,"text":"一大早去把你帶走那我們今天遇到的狀況是什麼你今天只要是罷免民進黨立法委員的"},{"start":605.036,"end":628.825,"text":"領銜人就是開始就把你搜索 羈押 大肆的給你查辦那罷免藍營的呢 他用力查辦的對象是誰竟然是連署人耶 竟然是被害人耶結果領銜人可以 哇 他說下午再問就下午再問還可以在臉書上面發言 感謝調查站的善意這是多麼荒謬啊"},{"start":629.912,"end":650.512,"text":"我想請教一下這是多麼的荒謬今天你遇到你司法在處理事情的時候竟然可以如此的區別對待我自己看到就是這樣啦今天只要是罷免綠營的支持者那你就是狂殺狂砍那今天罷免藍營的"},{"start":652.862,"end":668.507,"text":"人 那你就對於所謂的支持的被害人 你就狂殺狂砍我真的沒有辦法想像司法怎麼會到今天那我不想問部長 因為部長沒有跟我說 干涉個案就是個案不討論 我已經發現部長的SOP了 你只要問他"},{"start":673.588,"end":691.748,"text":"罷免跟藍營有關的 他就跟你講個案然後護航 我們的執法執行人員都沒問題早上去問被害人 是因為基隆人有這樣的特殊需求結果你問到他罷免綠營的人的事情的時候他就開始跟你 這個案我不討論喔 這支個案喔"},{"start":693.59,"end":721.565,"text":"他永遠都是雙標這樣對我那我也說我昨天氣到跟部長說我說我也是內行人不要在那邊跟我講外行話你司法今天有沒有雙標次長我不用你回答這句話次長你是我以前的老師你也是讓我決心要走檢察官這條路的人你真的覺得今天的司法走到今天這樣我們是不是其實回到家其實可能眼淚都要流出來了怎麼司法會配合政客玩到今天這個地步"},{"start":722.878,"end":746.03,"text":"调战调局也是 警政署也是这是我们当年从社稿官训练所出来的时候追求的司法嘛那我跟市长跟老师报告我在国民党执政的时候我办刘正宏刘正子我是办得多用力民进党执政的时候我办郑文燦他们我办得多用力因为这个都是我等于是在对抗当时的任何一个执政党"},{"start":747.431,"end":772.652,"text":"因為我心中司法就是公正的處理每個案子我每一次辦完都被關切 都有人對我不爽但我覺得那個就是一個司法人員的宿命我們就是要起來對抗強權結果我今天看到的完全不是這樣次長這個部分真的你就不用回答所以我認為犯罪該辦就辦這我絕對百分之百支持但是犯罪的時候不應該區別對待"},{"start":775.544,"end":788.022,"text":"在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面其實可能發生的就是違簽姓名的偽造文書啦這是犯罪 我一直說這個是犯罪但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待所以剛剛吳孝文跟大家說"},{"start":789.431,"end":809.24,"text":"什麼什麼去集會什麼4.26去集會怎麼樣然後這個你們認為這個不是犯罪什麼等等之類其實我覺得這些人都是在誤導國人因為我們今天主張的是我剛剛所說的你在針對同樣的事情的時候你是採取不一樣的對待方式我是對於司法的不公執行方式的不公"},{"start":810.02,"end":825.912,"text":"我在抗議的是這個事絕對不是我說偽造文書沒有過程犯罪我從幾個月前我在立法院的國事論壇上面我就公開的說偽造文書不管哪一檔只要你偽簽偽造聯署書就是犯罪所以"},{"start":826.53,"end":852.425,"text":"不要在那邊胡扯這些事情還有我再提一個3月17號的時候中選會的副主委有說二階段連署的格式只能由選務機關發出來也就是說他所有的格式都不能夠有自己設計的如果有的話他自己說 他副主委自己說有違反公職人員選罷法還有刑法等等的相關責任而且他講得細到說"},{"start":854.977,"end":883.609,"text":"各個名冊格式這個標題文字字體名各欄次次序長寬的等等這個只要有問題那就是違法結果呢我們發現花蓮花蓮有4000份的格式有問題結果到現在呢有搜索嗎沒有啊有大量傳喚嗎沒有啊所以這到底是怎麼回事呢那我們在想這兩天聽到的說什麼新竹的"},{"start":884.349,"end":908.39,"text":"林志傑 前立委參選人 他叫大家來簽聯署 然後會請喝咖啡 吃蛋糕那這個我們一聽到 這個絕對是會選嘛但現在呢 也沒有沒有任何的動作 但是我們看到的你對於其他的地方像譬如說今天對宜蘭 就超級有效率然後趕快去搜索 然後把人現在全部都帶回去飼料處"},{"start":910.95,"end":939.014,"text":"然後在做這種事情所以這就是我心裡覺得我心裡覺得不公平啦我是替人民出來講話我對這國家這個司法對於人民是不公平的而且部長 昨天局長趕在這邊跟我講我們都是依法處理我跟你講 鬼才信啦我今天幹過20年警察官我很清楚這些長官在玩什麼東西只是這一次的長官玩的比以前嚴重更多"},{"start":940.749,"end":968.122,"text":"國民黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家心知肚明民進黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰大家也心知肚明但是我所看到的是這一屆玩得最誇張最離譜那各位都是國家真正很強的棟樑那我也不管大家我也不在乎大家政治思想是什麼但是是不是我們在執行司法執行公務的時候就心裡那一把尺我也有我自己的政治傾向但是在過往我不管在辦"},{"start":969.222,"end":996.963,"text":"國民黨的劉家或是在辦民進黨的次長我永遠心裡就那把尺就是司法怎麼樣我就怎麼辦我即使辦到後來部長對我都很不諒解我還是堅持辦因為這是司法人員的堅持嘛我辦劉家也被他們檢舉了好多年啦我也從來沒有說怨恨他們什麼就是我該怎麼做我記得次長你也曾經打過一通電話給我"},{"start":998.888,"end":1016.563,"text":"你在處理劉家那時候告我的案子那個時候應該您是在法務部處理這案子我那時候在桃檢 你有打電話跟我問一下整個內情狀況 我有跟你回覆所以我們是提著人頭在辦案 在對抗強權但是現在司法的長官們是怎麼在做的"},{"start":1022.162,"end":1049.195,"text":"好那我再請教一下次長次長花蓮的這個案子後來講說為什麼這四千份有問題卻沒有提告那當時的花蓮地檢說因為沒有人來告啊那我想請問一下次長沒有人檢舉的案子非告訴難用的案子地檢署就不用發動偵查嗎當然不是啊假如因為告訴告發自首或其他刑事自由犯罪嫌疑及應急開始偵辦"},{"start":1049.795,"end":1069.017,"text":"是 謝謝次長 謝謝老師那我想檢報分案也是檢方的日常那今天這麼嚴重了大家鬧轟轟成這樣而且非常多罷免團體也都被辦的情況下花蓮地檢署竟然可以說因為沒有民眾來告所以這四千份的事情我就沒有處理然後後來是侯漢廷跑去提出告發"},{"start":1069.878,"end":1085.277,"text":"那我的意思是說花蓮地檢的這個說法會不會太騙人民啦太侮辱人民的智商啊檢報分案是很多人民都知道的事情更何況司法人員就花蓮地檢署竟然可以說沒有啊沒有人來告啊所以我沒有辦啊"},{"start":1087.078,"end":1111.726,"text":"這個東西我也沒有辦法接受啦跟老師報告一下這個我沒有辦法接受因為我覺得這也是選擇性的不作為前面是選擇性的作為這邊是選擇性的不作為我覺得國家如果要愚民就不要讓我念書你讓我念書了大家念到博士了我們念到博士了然後你再來給我騙一堆弱智的人才會被騙的事情那這樣的國家"},{"start":1113.188,"end":1142.101,"text":"不知道在搞什麼不然你就讓我們全國人民都不要念書全部小學三年級畢業就好如果不是這樣的話請不要把大家當笨蛋看就算刪除預算一樣他叫大家不要送解凍案來他忘記了我們有好多同學跟親戚都在中央機關上班啊他們都會私下跟我說上面交代解凍案都不要送要讓人民對你們不爽對啊所以我就說這就是現在就是現在的政府我不知道現在政府到底是"},{"start":1143.476,"end":1155.819,"text":"福國利民 心存善念的在對待人民就是在搞他的政治鬥爭所以我最近對於司法的問題越來越生氣就是現在司法真的完全不是我以前想像的"},{"start":1157.244,"end":1178.921,"text":"那次長我再請教一下就是筆跡有沒有重複啊到底目前大家的判斷標準是什麼為什麼大家看一看就可以來搜索請教次長當然現在才在搜索階段他要求的這個證據能力的程度不會像到法院嘛那到法院通常透過鑑定的證據方法去確認這是否有偽造"},{"start":1179.301,"end":1203.103,"text":"因為在偵查中他申請相關的搜索票也好他並沒有要求要政治能力就證據能力所以也許檢察官他就基於勘驗勘驗也是一個調查方法勘驗之後認為他有可能有這個偽造肢體他也許就提這個證據向法院申請好謝謝長那這講說這都我們很熟悉的嘛就但是我也要跟就是說跟在場的各位報告一件事情不管在高雄韓國瑜的"},{"start":1203.963,"end":1224.748,"text":"聯署案的案子 或者是在北檢當時辦的郭台銘聯署案的案子其實檢察官到最後都認定說罷免團體領先人他們是被動的收這些聯署書他也沒有審核的能力 他也沒有互譯證系統可以比對真假依照現有的制度"},{"start":1228.569,"end":1247.206,"text":"確實現有的制度 北檢也說了啊依照現行法制之下 被聯署的人確實沒有無權要求民眾出具證件核實才能參加聯署那既然有這麼大漏洞 當時國民黨要提案說罷免要附身分證一本 民進黨又狂黨還在那邊騙說人民說國民黨沒收罷免權"},{"start":1248.627,"end":1271.63,"text":"其實我們希望能夠有一個嚴謹的連署結果民進黨不肯他設了一個局讓大家跳進去就現在連署了啊那他就開始說有一些事可能是有問題就像基隆一樣嘛跑到人家家裡問你說六點半問你說這是不是你連署就那個人說對啊這我簽的啊那今天你司法機關竟然可以拿了這個東西覺得兩個人的筆跡很像就可以把它當作一件刑事案件在偵辦"},{"start":1272.771,"end":1299.094,"text":"那不是就等於坐實了你原來民進黨不想要附身分證影本就是想要讓國民黨簽一簽之後反正司法都在你手上啦隨便你怎麼玩嘛他就直接拿聯署到你家去問然後說這是不是你簽的然後開始擾民開始玩這些如果今天可以要附身分證影本的話今天這個狀況大概發生的機率是非常低所以我覺得一整套套路下來民進黨就是用不停的制度以及什麼就是要玩弄國人"},{"start":1299.835,"end":1328.727,"text":"不然我們都附身分證影本大家都玩真的就好了為什麼你擋到底他顯然就設一個局讓你跳可以讓他控制的司法人員可以隨便拿兩張說這個筆記好像很像那我就開始去調查就變成這樣子就有司法人員陪著調查所以我想講檢察官是看證據辦案不是看政治辦案千萬不要變成今天是看政治辦案這真的是不可取"},{"start":1330.188,"end":1351.227,"text":"所以我過去20年在檢方的時候我辦了很多執政黨的人當然把我們自己搞得全身都是傷那我以前覺得受那個傷我對得起國人所以我願意這樣做那你們今天變成今天這樣讓我想說那我以前好像是笨蛋欸為什麼我會這樣逼自己要一切"},{"start":1352.335,"end":1378.252,"text":"要依法處理 要愛這個國家 要為這個國家做事我現在看到的都完全不一樣所以 霸藍的直接處理你霸團 霸綠的早上直接去處理那個敢聯署的人然後對於霸藍團體的領先人還可以跟他 移到下午再開庭讓人家來臉書感謝 這就是我看到現在的司法"},{"start":1379.96,"end":1393.368,"text":"好吧那個我覺得我還是說啦犯罪就該偵辦但是我不會去批評檢方啟動犯罪調查這件事所以我一直以來我都沒有說你們處理霸安團體是不對但是"},{"start":1394.605,"end":1411.191,"text":"我的要求只是請公平的對待請注意手段目的的比例原則否則在一個完全不符合比例原則這個之下我沒有辦法接受那請重視一下正當的法律程序你們目前的作為其實讓我沒有辦法溝通這些事情"},{"start":1416.82,"end":1436.719,"text":"好 那 而且我各位還要想到一件事情你們現在搜索羈押了這些人 萬一以後判無罪呢判無罪之後願意賠償 然後你也是拿全民的錢去賠給他你今天搞了這些人 達到你的政治目的結果你到最後判無罪了 你也是拿人民的錢去賠給他"},{"start":1438.789,"end":1463.946,"text":"民進黨沒事啊 沒受傷啊 我得到好多的政治紅利啊反正賠的是國家的預算啊 也不關他的事那這是我現在看到 而且我預測將來可能會面對到可能會面對到很多這種東西啦我相信會有很多人會被判無罪因為你怎麼去說 他有辨識違簽的這個能力那個檢調機關 真的不要變成司法鬥爭的工具"},{"start":1464.927,"end":1493.501,"text":"好我剛剛那個最後我想說齁我提一個東西啦齁那個因為跟今天的法案是有一點關係的齁那個呃在這個PowerPoint上面我希望說你們兩週內能夠提一個報告齁對於這個車禍過失傷害的告訴難論之罪齁也要加強這個刑事負債民事的這個權益的告知因為有一些人喔他不知道就整個走完之後過了過了損害賠償的那個那個請求權失效喔因為實務上"},{"start":1494.181,"end":1504.952,"text":"有很多人來跟我報怨 陳情這個事但我跟他說這是因為法律的規定但是行政機關 司法機關確實是可以幫忙去做這個啦最後30秒給我剛剛吳思堯講到那個禁制區的問題就是極有法禁制區廢除"},{"start":1514.537,"end":1542.331,"text":"我沒有 我對要不要廢除我沒有意見但是提廢除的是民進黨當年提的所以吳志曉可能要回去先跟黨問一下當初是民進黨提說要廢這個禁制區不是國民黨結果他今天執政了 他又覺得禁制區要存在這就是他的雙標不管在財化法等等 國會改革 民進黨永遠在雙標好 然後呢還有就是他剛剛說立法委員不能變為法委員然後說帶隊到那個台北地檢署前面去集會當然那個集會"},{"start":1543.852,"end":1563.434,"text":"法律上面當然可以給予評價 但是我在這邊要跟各位再報告一件事那去年12月呢 青鳥要衝進立法院 然後在那邊剪斷鐵絲網然後在那邊妨害公務 毀損跟妨害公務呢那這兩個也是犯罪啊 為什麼沒有見到你說立法委員什麼時候立法委員是違法委員呢 好"},{"start":1564.675,"end":1591.912,"text":"劉四芳明明沒有指揮警察辦案的權利結果他可以叫警察說要移送誰移送誰然後大家問他之後 他就說違法就要辦啊那如果劉四芳違法就要辦 那劉四芳要不要辦 辦 鍾佳斌因為鍾佳斌在那邊撿鐵絲網啊 那是毀損啊那要不要在那邊辦案那幾個 王定宇那幾個在那邊叫 衝進立法院趕快衝進來那個是妨礙公務啊 那劉四芳要不要叫指揮警察辦案呢"},{"start":1593.519,"end":1616.592,"text":"所以我就覺得就是永遠雙標啦自己也沒有指揮的權利也在那邊說要指揮警察丟臉丟死了 連這最基本自己能做什麼都搞不清楚然後立法委員在那邊敲壞立法院的桌子 拔斷麥克風打破玻璃 晚上跑進立法院都沒事 都不是犯罪 然後到"},{"start":1618.325,"end":1626.322,"text":"到北檢前面集會 要違反極右法天大的罪好像要殺頭一樣結果你在這邊幹了一堆蠢事丟臉丟到國外 摸女生屁股"},{"start":1627.641,"end":1653.913,"text":"摸女性立法委員屁股就還上很多國家的報紙頭版沒事這就是我們現在看到的所以剛剛那個吳教委員說他是今天來這邊給大家上法律教育課我覺得他應該自己要去上一下法律教育他自己搞不太清楚法律他自己才應該去先上法律教育課懂一下什麼是正常的法律好 不好意思謝謝各位 那麻煩兩週內能夠把這個報告給我們 可以嗎可以好 謝謝 謝謝各位"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":659,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（11時14分）謝謝，我們請法務部、司法院、調查局，還有警政署。"],["主席：有請各單位。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝各位，各位早安。我先請教法務部和司法院，我看了你們今天針對陳亭妃委員所提的簡易判決處刑制度修正草案的意見，你們不支持的原因主要是認為司法資源有限性，如果限縮使用可能會造成司法負擔，是不是，請問法務部和司法院？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。委員，可以說明嗎？"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係，你們的報告裡面已經有了，所以這個是主軸，主要是司法資源，對不對？"],["王副秘書長梅英：關於原因是什麼，為什麼我們認為會影響到、排擠掉資源？"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係，這個我當然知道，我知道整個制度的狀況，可不可以直接下判決不用通知當事人等等，我也滿大程度認同目前司法資源其實是有限的，不管是在司法院或者是法務部，其實資源都是有限的。但是因為我最近看到了一些狀況，包括高院放了鍾文智的事情等等，在有限的司法資源之下，我們對於司法資源的使用應該要放在真正的重刑犯上面，而不是輕罪，更不是無辜的人民。所以昨天我在質詢的時候有提到，我們認為的司法應該是要對付犯罪，而不是拿來當作政治的工具，更何況司法資源是有限的，所以在使用上面應該要更去思考怎麼樣對國家、人民有利。","我們今天審查的法案都是刑事訴訟法的條文，刑事訴訟法最大的精神在於要發現真實，還有執行正當的法律程序來保障受訊問者，而不是一昧的事實調查，不是今天這個人有構成犯罪，我就動用所有國家的偵查力量去對付他，譬如有一個人侵占遺失物，我是不是要開始大量的搜索、羈押、訊問，只為了發現他有沒有侵占遺失物的這個事實？我想司法不是這樣用的。所以在刑事訴訟程序上面，有犯罪就應該偵辦，但比例原則是我們在衡量手段以及目的性的一個很重要考量，尤其是在司法資源有限的情況下，怎麼做才是真正重要的。除了不該一昧地拿犯罪事實調查當作藉口之外，其實你們要考量的是怎麼樣去保障正當法律程序，譬如比例原則有沒有去注意到，公正公平的手段有沒有去注意到，我想這是我們每個司法人員要做的。因為國家訓練一個司法官，從司法官訓練所出來的，像兩位跟我，國家是要花非常多錢才能把你訓練出來，花那麼多錢訓練出來的從業人員，這應該是我們一定要遵守的一個原則，在訴訟上面、偵查上面、審判上面有沒有符合比例原則以及公平公正、合乎訴訟程序的手段，請問兩位認不認同我這個說法？"],["王副秘書長梅英：認同。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝。昨天我在質詢的時候遇到一個狀況，其實人民納稅給你去發薪水絕對不是讓你六點半去擾民，而且我們六點半會去一定是搜索或執行拘提才有可能，六點半去送達傳票我還真的沒聽過。我想請教次長，你是我檢察實習時的老師，所以我一直尊稱你是老師，也因為以前你對我的影響很大，所以我一路以來就是選擇一定要當檢察官，不是當法官，因為我很喜歡偵查犯罪給我自己的成就感，以及對國家的貢獻。所以我想請教次長，檢察官什麼時候會在六點半指示司法警察去送達傳票？"],["黃次長謀信：會在清晨這麼早通常是進行搜索或進行強制處分作為的時候……"],["吳委員宗憲：就是我剛剛講的。"],["黃次長謀信：就這個案子的傳喚方式，其實基本上他不違法，但是個案上妥不妥適，昨天跟今天外界都有一些不同的意見，我相信基隆地檢已經聽到外界的一些聲音，就妥適性的部分當然可以再行檢討，基本上，我們認為這個個案的合法性沒有問題，但妥適性要不要檢討，我們尊重基隆地檢的決定。"],["吳委員宗憲：我覺得不當的事情就是要大聲說出來，如果我今天是一個執法人員或是國家公務員，我說我這個行為沒有違法，就可以任意對人民怎麼樣，我不覺得這是應該的。更何況我跟次長報告，你是我以前的指導老師，有誰會早上六點半派司法警察去某一個人的家裡送傳票？我昨天還請教了調查局長以及法務部長，我問是請他馬上帶著走，還是只是通知他另外到庭時間，局長說通知另外到庭時間，我認為這用一般郵務送達就好了，為什麼要警察早上六點半去呢？","結果我們今天發現基隆有一個議員是之前民進黨的立委候選人，他直接講了，還公布錄音，這個部分是警政署的部分，警察一大早到現場的時候，民眾要上班，民眾還跟他說「我要上班，這個名字是我簽的」，結果警察不讓他走，一定要他做筆錄，這個錄音是民進黨上次的立委候選人自己公布的，我不知道這是怎麼回事？基隆地檢的檢察官這麼偉大嗎？可以叫調查官、警察一大早在人家上班前跑去那邊把人攔下，不讓他上班，就是要做筆錄？更何況這些人是你偵查之後認定的被害人，他可能是被偽簽名字的被害人，結果你一大早跑去他家把他攔下來，不讓他上班，就因為要做你的筆錄。請問次長、請問警政署，這是我們的正當法律程序嗎？我請教你，請你告訴我這是不是正當的法律程序？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，傳喚在正當法律程序上面，看是對證人還是對被告的傳喚，證人除非有急迫情形，原則上要在24小時前先送達，被告當然就沒有這個限制。關於傳喚基本上也是司法上對於人身自由的自由權干預，理論上都要符合相關的比例原則或相關憲法上的原則。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝次長。但這擺明了就是沒有這樣的慣例，這種對被害人的傳喚完全違反比例原則，你跟我說法律沒有說不行，那我下次是不是五點可以送？四點可以送？凌晨三點也可以送？昨天部長還跟我講這是考量基隆人的特殊性，很多桃園人也到臺北上班，是不是桃園就是凌晨五點去？我的助理每天從新竹到臺北來上班，如果要通知他，傳票是不是四點要送過去？我說部長在鬼扯淡、部長在亂講！今天早上記者問我的時候，我就說部長在亂講、胡說八道，你今天幹到部長級的人，你還在國會胡扯，我覺得這不應該。更何況，因為昨天我問的是調查官去現場到底是送達通知書，還是製作筆錄，還是要帶走，局長跟我說只是去送達改天要開庭的通知書，但是我們今天看到警政署的部分是直接把他攔下來做筆錄，但是我不能確定調查官是不是把他攔下來做筆錄，但如果是的話，昨天局長跟部長在這裡就是騙我了。雖然大法官認為政務官來這邊備詢說謊沒事，但是我覺得這也不是我們認同和支持的一件事情。","我再講一個，因為剛剛的新聞說宜蘭的黨部也被搜索，我跟各位報告一件事情，我們從基隆的案子來看，基隆罷免林沛祥的領銜人還在臉書感謝調查站可以讓他「喬」到下午再去接受訊問，還謝謝調查官的「善意」，結果罷免綠營團體的搜索、羈押是一大早去把你帶走。我們今天遇到的狀況是什麼？今天只要是罷免民進黨立法委員的領銜人，就是開始把你搜索、羈押，大肆的查辦；而罷免藍營的呢？它用力查辦的對象是誰？竟然是連署人耶！竟然是被害人耶！結果領銜人可以說下午再問，他就下午再問，還可以在臉書上面發言感謝調查站的善意，這是多麼荒謬啊！我想請教一下，這是多麼的荒謬！今天司法在處理事情的時候竟然可以如此的區別對待，我自己看到就是這樣啦，今天只要是罷免綠營的支持者，你就是狂殺狂砍；今天是罷免藍營的人，你就對所謂支持的被害人狂殺狂砍，我真的沒有辦法想像司法怎麼會走到今天？","我不想問部長，因為部長每次都跟我說這是個案不討論，我已經發現部長的SOP了，你只要問他罷免跟藍營有關的，他就跟你講個案，然後護航說我們的司法執行人員都沒問題，早上去問被害人，是因為基隆人有這樣的特殊需求，結果遇到要問罷免綠營人的事情時，他就開始跟你說我不討論喔，這是個案，他永遠都是雙標這樣對我。我昨天氣到跟部長說我也是內行人，不要在那邊跟我講外行話，司法今天有沒有雙標？次長，我不用你回答這句話，次長，你是我以前的老師，你也是讓我決心要走檢察官這條路的人，你真的覺得司法走到今天這樣，我們是不是回到家其實可能眼淚都要流出來了？怎麼司法會配合政客玩到今天這個地步？調查站、調查局也是、警政署也是，這是我們當年從司法官訓練所出來之後追求的司法嗎？","我跟次長跟老師報告，我在國民黨執政的時候，我辦劉政鴻、劉政池辦得多用力；民進黨執政的時候，我辦鄭文燦他們辦得多用力，這個都是等於我在對抗當時任何一個執政黨，因為在我心中，司法就是公正的處理每個案子。我每一次辦完都被關切，都有人對我不爽，但我覺得那個就是一個司法人員的宿命，我們就是要起來對抗強權，結果我今天看到的完全不是這樣。次長，這個部分真的你就不用回答。所以我認為犯罪該辦就辦，這我絕對百分之百支持，但是辦犯罪的時候不應該區別對待。","在最近這個連署的這個案子裡面，其實可能發生的就是偽簽姓名的偽造文書啦，這是犯罪，我一直說這個是犯罪，但是我們希望的是能夠公平的對待。剛剛吳思瑤委員跟大家說426去集會怎麼樣的，然後你們認為這個不是犯罪等等之類的……其實，我覺得這些人都是在誤導國人，因為我們今天主張的是我剛剛所說的，針對同樣的事情的時候，你是採取不一樣的對待方式，我是對於司法的不公、執行方式的不公，我在抗議的是這個事，我絕對不是說偽造文書沒有構成犯罪。從幾個月前，我在立法院的國是論壇上面，就公開的說偽造文書不管哪一黨，只要你偽簽、偽造連署書就是犯罪，所以不要在那邊胡扯這些事情。","還有，我再提一個，3月17號中選會的副主委有說，二階段連署的格式只能由選務機關發出來，也就是所有的格式都不能夠有自己設計的，如果有的話，副主委自己說有違反公職人員選罷法還有刑法等等的相關責任。而且他講的細到各個名冊格式，包含標題、文字、字體、各欄次序、長、寬等，這個只要有問題，那就是違法。結果我們發現花蓮有4,000份的格式有問題，到現在有搜索嗎？沒有啊！有大量傳喚嗎？沒有啊！所以這到底是怎麼回事呢？我們在這兩天聽到的，新竹的林志潔前立委參選人叫大家來簽連署，然後會請喝咖啡、吃蛋糕，我們一聽這個絕對是賄選嘛，但現在也沒有任何的動作。但是我們看到對於其他的地方，譬如今天對宜蘭就超級有效率，趕快去搜索，然後現在把人全部都帶回去市調處，在做這種事情，所以這是我心裡覺得不公平啦，我是替人民出來講話，這個國家、這個司法對於人民是不公平的。而且昨天部長還有局長敢在那邊跟我講「我們都是依法處理」，我跟你講，鬼才信啦！我今天幹過20年的檢察官，我很清楚這些長官在玩什麼東西，只是這一次的長官玩得比以前嚴重更多，國民黨執政時代他們有沒有這樣碰，大家心知肚明；民進黨執政時代，他們有沒有這樣碰，大家也心知肚明，但是我所看到的是這一屆玩得最誇張、最離譜！","各位都是國家真正很強的棟樑啦，我也不管、也不在乎大家政治思想是什麼，但是我們在執行司法、執行公務的時候就靠心裡那一把尺，我也有我自己的政治傾向，但是過往我不管在辦國民黨的劉家或是在辦民進黨的市長，我永遠心裡就那把尺，就是司法怎麼樣，我就怎麼辦，即使辦到後來部長對我都很不諒解，我還是堅持辦，因為這是司法人員的堅持嘛！我辦劉家也被他們檢舉了好多年啦，我也從來沒有怨恨他們什麼，我就只是看該怎麼做。我記得次長也曾經打過一通電話給我，你在處理劉家那時候告我的案子，那個時候您應該是在法務部處理這個案子，那時候我在桃檢，你有打電話跟我問一下整個內情、狀況，我有跟你回復，所以我們是提著人頭在辦案、在對抗強權，但是現在司法的長官們是怎麼做的？","我再請教一下次長，關於花蓮的這個案子，後來為什麼這4,000份有問題卻沒有提告？當時的花蓮地檢說因為沒有人來告啊！我想請問一下次長，沒有人檢舉的案子、非告訴乃論的案子地檢署就不用發動偵查嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：當然不是，檢察官因為告訴、告發、自首或其他情事知有犯罪嫌疑者，應即開始偵查。"],["吳委員宗憲：是，謝謝次長、謝謝老師。我想「剪報分案」也是檢方的日常，今天這麼嚴重了，大家鬧哄哄成這樣，而且非常多罷免團體也都被辦的情況下，花蓮地檢署竟然可以說因為沒有民眾來告，所以這4,000份的事情我就沒有處理，後來是侯漢廷跑去提出告發。我的意思是，花蓮地檢的這個說法，會不會太騙人民、太侮辱人民的智商？「剪報分案」是很多人民都知道的事情，更何況司法人員？結果花蓮地檢署竟然可以說沒有啊！沒有人來告啊！所以我沒有辦啊！這個東西我也沒有辦法接受，跟老師報告一下，這個我沒有辦法接受，因為我覺得這個也是選擇性的不作為，前面是選擇性的作為，這邊是選擇性的不作為。","我覺得國家如果要愚民，就不要讓我念書，你讓我念書了，大家念到博士了，我們念到博士了，然後你再來給我騙一堆弱智的人才會被騙的事情，那這樣的國家不知道在搞什麼，不然你就讓我們全國人民都不要念書，全部小學3年級畢業就好。如果不是這樣的話，請不要把大家當笨蛋看，就像刪除預算一樣，還叫大家不要送解凍案來，他忘記了我們有好多同學跟親戚都在中央機關上班，他們都會私下跟我說上面交代解凍案都不要送，要讓人民對你們不爽。對啊！所以我說這就是現在的政府，我不知道現在政府到底是福國利民、心存善念的在對待人民，還是在搞它的政治鬥爭？所以我最近對於司法的問題越來越生氣，現在司法真的完全不是我以前想像的。","次長，我再請教一下，關於筆跡有沒有重複，到底目前大家的判斷標準是什麼？為什麼大家看一看就可以搜索？請教次長。"],["黃次長謀信：當然現在才在搜索階段，它要求證據能力的程度不會像法院，到法院通常是透過鑑定的證據方法去確認這是否有偽造，因為在偵查中，他申請相關的搜索票也好，並沒有要求要有證據能力……"],["吳委員宗憲：是。"],["黃次長謀信：也許檢察官基於勘驗，勘驗也是一個調查方法，勘驗之後認為他可能有偽造之嫌，他也許就提這個證據向法院聲請……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝次長，這都是我們很熟悉的嘛。","但是我也要跟在場各位報告一件事情，不管在高雄韓國瑜的連署案子，或者是在北檢當時辦郭台銘連署案的案子，其實檢察官到最後都認定罷免團體的領銜人是被動的收這些連署書，他沒有審核的能力，也沒有戶役政系統可以比對真假，依照現有的制度，現有的制度確實……北檢也說了，依照現行法制之下，被連署人確實無權要求民眾出具證件核實才能參加連署。既然有這麼大的漏洞，當時國民黨提案罷免要附身分證影本，民進黨又狂擋，還在那邊騙人民說國民黨沒收罷免權，其實我們希望能夠有一個嚴謹的連署，結果民進黨不肯，他們設了一個局讓大家跳進去，結果現在連署了，他們就開始說有一些可能是有問題，就像在基隆，有人6點半跑到人家家裡問你：這是不是你連署？結果那個人說：對啊！這我簽的。今天你們司法機關竟然可以拿著這個東西，覺得兩個人的筆跡很像就可以把它當作一件刑事案件偵辦，那不就等於坐實了……原來民進黨不想要附身分證影本就是想要讓國民黨簽一簽之後……反正司法都在你們手上啦，隨便你們怎麼玩。他直接拿連署書到你家去問，問這是不是你簽的，然後開始擾民、開始玩這些……如果今天要附身分證影本的話，今天這個狀況發生的機率大概非常低。所以我覺得一整套套路下來，民進黨就是不停的用制度在玩弄國人，不然我們都附身分證影本，大家都玩真的就好了，為什麼要擋到底？他們顯然就設一個局讓你跳，讓他們控制的司法人員可以隨便拿兩張說這個筆跡很像就開始調查，就變成這樣子，有司法人員陪著調查。","我想講的是，檢察官是看證據辦案，不是看政治辦案，今天千萬不要變成是看政治辦案，這真的是不可取。我過去20年在檢方的時候辦了很多執政黨的人，當然把我們自己搞得全身都是傷，我以前覺得我受那個傷是對得起國人，所以我願意這樣做，那你們變成今天這樣，讓我想到我以前好像是笨蛋，為什麼我會逼自己一切要依法處理，要愛這個國家，要為這個國家做事？我現在看到的都完全不一樣！罷藍的直接處理罷團，罷綠的就早上直接去處理那個敢連署的人，然後對於罷藍團體的領銜人還可以讓他移到下午再開庭，讓人家用臉書感謝，這就是我看到現在的司法。","好吧！我還是說，犯罪就該偵辦，我不會去批評檢方啟動犯罪調查這件事，所以我一路以來都沒有說你們處理罷藍團體是不對的，但我只是要求公平的對待，請注意手段目的的比例原則，否則在一個完全不符合比例原則的情形之下，我沒有辦法接受，也請重視一下正當的法律程序，你們目前的作為讓我沒有辦法苟同這些事情。各位還要想到一件事情，你們現在搜索羈押了這些人，萬一以後判無罪呢？判無罪之後的冤獄賠償也是拿全民的錢去賠給他們，今天搞了這些人，達到你們的政治目的，結果到最後判無罪還是拿人民的錢去賠給他們，民進黨沒事啊！沒受傷啊！得到好多的政治紅利啊！反正賠的是國家的預算，也不關他們的事。這是我現在看到的，而且我預測將來可能會面對很多這種東西，我相信會有很多人會被判無罪，因為你怎麼說他有辨識偽簽的能力？檢調機關真的不要變成司法鬥爭的工具。","最後我想提一個東西，跟今天的法案是有一點關係的，在這個PowerPoint上面，我希望你們兩週內能夠提一個報告，對於車禍過失傷害的告訴乃論之罪要加強刑事附帶民事的權益告知，因為有一些人不知道，整個走完之後卻過了損害賠償的請求權時效，實務上有很多人來跟我陳情這件事，但我跟他說：這是因為法律的規定。但是行政機關、司法機關確實可以幫忙做這個。","最後給我30秒，剛剛吳思瑤講到禁制區的問題，就是集遊法禁制區廢除，我對要不要廢除沒有意見，但是當年是民進黨提廢除的，所以吳思瑤可能要回去先跟黨問一下，當初是民進黨提出要廢除禁制區，不是國民黨，結果他們今天執政了又覺得禁制區要存在，這就是他們的雙標，不管在財劃法、國會改革等等，民進黨永遠在雙標。","然後，他剛剛說立法委員不能變違法委員，帶隊到臺北地檢署前面去集會，針對那個集會，法律上面當然可以給予評價，但是我在這邊要跟各位再報告一件事，去年12月青鳥要衝進立法院，在那邊剪斷鐵絲網、妨害公務，毀損跟妨害公務這兩個也是犯罪啊，為什麼沒有見到你說立法委員是違法委員呢？好，劉世芳明明沒有指揮警察辦案的權力，結果他可以叫警察移送誰、移送誰，然後大家問他，他就說：違法就要辦啊！如果劉世芳說違法就要辦，那劉世芳要不要辦鍾佳濱？因為鍾佳濱在那邊剪鐵絲網啊，那是毀損，那要不要辦王定宇那幾個？他們在那邊叫：趕快衝進立法院！趕快衝進來！那個是妨害公務，劉世芳要不要指揮警察辦案呢？所以我覺得就是永遠雙標啦！自己沒有指揮的權力也在那邊說要指揮警察，丟臉丟死了！連自己最基本能做什麼都搞不清楚。","立法委員在那邊敲壞立法院的桌子、拔斷麥克風、打破玻璃，晚上跑進立法院都沒事？都不是犯罪？然後到北檢前面集會一下就違反集遊法，犯天大的罪，好像要殺頭一樣？結果你在這邊幹了一堆蠢事，丟臉丟到國外！摸女生屁股、摸女性立法委員屁股還上很多國家的報紙頭版卻沒事？這就是我們現在看到的。剛才吳思瑤委員說他今天是來這邊給大家上法律教育課，我覺得他自己才應該要去上一下法律教育，他自己搞不太清楚法律，他自己才應該先去上法律教育課，懂一下什麼是正常的法律。","不好意思，謝謝各位，再麻煩兩週內能夠把這個報告給我們，可以嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：可以。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝，謝謝各位。"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝委員。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲）：下一位請傅崐萁委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-11","speakers":["吳宗憲","羅智強","王義川","陳培瑜","黃國昌","沈發惠","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","林淑芬"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員羅智強等25 人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案、\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百十六條之二條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員陳\n培瑜等16人擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員陳亭妃等16人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十九條及第四百五十一條之一條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員許智\n傑等22人擬具「刑事訴訟法第四百四十一條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144301_00001"}}}