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\"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 394.761, \"end\": 394.861, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 394.861, \"end\": 395.422, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 395.422, \"end\": 395.562, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 395.562, \"end\": 395.722, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 395.722, \"end\": 395.802, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 395.802, \"end\": 396.042, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 396.042, \"end\": 396.182, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 396.182, \"end\": 396.502, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 396.502, \"end\": 396.582, \"score\": 0.536}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 396.582, \"end\": 396.602, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,322 --> 00:00:06,612\n謝謝主席邀請我們黃部長跟蔡署長請部長還有蔡署長\n\n2\n00:00:12,391 --> 00:00:39,523\n兩位午安今天討論到這個治安法嘛那一個法令訂定之後很重要的就是落地嘛那落地裡面就是執行就是我們的法令裡面有明確的規範到我們一些公務機關或者是非公務機關的特定機關必須要有自通安全的專責人員那我們有評估過在這個法令通過之後會衍生出多少的一個自通安全人員需要去補\n\n3\n00:00:41,500 --> 00:01:06,080\n不含現在缺的啦,就是未來衍生新增的需求我們有一個統計大臣謝謝委員,就剛剛所提到的部分因為這個目前我們對治安人員的專職人員的配置公共機關的話是A級機關要配置四位專職人員B級是兩個,C級是一個那D跟E他可以不需要配置,因為他比較簡單這個是目前,那目前所缺人治安專職人員大概是239人\n\n4\n00:01:08,260 --> 00:01:24,847\n新增的需要新增的239人需要新增含非公務機關如果說未來如果是新增加所管的非公務機關的話可能會比這個還更多所以二三級是公務機關\n\n5\n00:01:28,115 --> 00:01:55,341\n12345目前是分ABCDE剛剛您講的就是公務機關嘛239那非公務的你們還沒有統計出來現在的法令沒有去要求非公務機關要設置專職人員那新法通過之後就會要求那個對所以我才講落地嘛就是法令通過之後落地之後非公務機關的特殊機關需要多少人你們現在還沒統計出來目前還沒有統計出來因為法還沒有通過\n\n6\n00:01:56,521 --> 00:02:21,990\n你們應該會算法過了之後要多少人你們要先算出來才知道這法定的有沒有辦法實際去執行啊因為他們目前有些機關他們其實都有配置專職的治安人員啊這個他們也有配置那我們還沒有去精算說新法通過之後目前會缺多少好了你們應該是要早一點去算好需要多少人然後之後才會像現在既有的缺多少然後未來新增的需求是多少你才能夠去協助機關補足嘛\n\n7\n00:02:22,930 --> 00:02:46,498\n那我確認一下機關的資通安全的專職人員他可能會去兼其他的業務嗎還是他就專職在資安的業務如果是專職的話就是說他只能做資安的工作那專職的話他就可以做其他資訊的工作等等的就是資通訊相關的工作那可能資安只是他工作的一個部分對\n\n8\n00:02:47,585 --> 00:03:15,315\n好那這個討論到資安的這個部分其實它有點像是網路的一個警察的一個概念啦那每個機關可能配置幾個人那每個機關的大小業務性質不太一樣那其實可能也會衍生出同工不同酬的一些問題啦你們有沒有考慮過既然它是一個類似警察的一個概念因為現在像是我們社會的警察我們像立法院或者是其他單位有需要\n\n9\n00:03:16,894 --> 00:03:44,076\n這個安全防護的時候我們會請警政署協助嘛就會派出人員那如果說是比較沒有那麼高強度的一個維安需求的話機關他可能就是委託保全公司來做一個基本的一個管理那我覺得網路安全的部分也有點類似的概念如果說是我們比較需求比較低的那他就可能委託資安公司來做維安管理那比較需求的那目前我們的狀態是每個機關都要去自己設置人員我們有考慮過\n\n10\n00:03:45,277 --> 00:04:03,326\n我們的資安署就類似警政署這樣的概念來統籌所有需要的人員因為我們資安人員不一定要在現場吧資安人員原則上都是在網路上面操作那每個機關去派駐的一個意義好像相對於警政機關來講的話更不需要在每個機關裡面去派駐我們都討論過這件事情\n\n11\n00:04:06,164 --> 00:04:34,932\n是跟委員報告大概就是兩個角度去想這是一個聯防的角度就是剛剛委員講的可能有一些機關他是低級或一級或是西級他的這個防護需求沒有那麼的需求那麼高那我們透過像一些聯防的機制來協助這個部分例如說我們盡量是用像GSN像政府機關來講GSN這邊政府的網路裡面的一些相關的一些攔阻或是防護部分來協助他們這個部分那是透過誰\n\n12\n00:04:35,692 --> 00:04:55,572\n你說的聯防我們在治安院這邊我們跟這個訴訟室這邊有一個接生那這邊可以對政府的網路做一些防護的一些相關的措施所以我們這邊有一批人然後可以協助比較對技術上面的協助對對對就是有什麼問題可以協助他們是需要的時候另外一個是目前的法令規定裡面就是說假設你機會裡面沒有\n\n13\n00:04:58,194 --> 00:05:07,156\n可以拚到足夠的專職人員的話你可以用委外人員暫時來替代那這個也可以補足目前治安人力不足的一個需求\n\n14\n00:05:07,805 --> 00:05:33,396\n對那我想說就是我們有沒有辦法像警慎署這樣子把所有的資安人員都我們就編列在我們資安署裡面然後協助各個機關來做資通訊的一個安全的維護不管是我們人類的調度還是我們相關人員的待遇編制工作時數等等的都在同一個部會裡面相對起來它是比較會穩定然後你可以跨機關去支援譬如說你剛剛講某一個機關四個人\n\n15\n00:05:35,237 --> 00:05:55,878\n那可能突然遭遇到大量攻擊的時候他四個人不一定有辦法負荷嘛那如果說我們通通在資安署裡面的話那我們就可以很輕鬆的去調派啊我剛剛要請教的就是這個東西謝謝委員這個的確是一個蠻好的一個方向啦就是說假設人力可以集中的話不管是教育訓練專業技能的提升我覺得這是一個蠻好的一個想法\n\n16\n00:05:56,258 --> 00:06:08,044\n但是因為這整個治安人力一條邊涉及到人事人種等等相關的一些法令規定的這個體制那後續是不是容我們在後續研究那也要跟那個人事總書這邊在相關的溝通對所以這個當然還牽涉到我們人事組織法的一個問題啦所以說署長這邊也是認為如果說能夠一條邊那由我們這邊治安署統一來做一些管理跟協助機關做治安安全的話\n\n17\n00:06:21,651 --> 00:06:36,602\n會是一個比較有效率的一個方式嗎對這個同意但是這個牽涉到組織法的調整好沒關係如果說我們的目標一致的話那我希望說後續我們需要提出修法的部分還是需要跟跨級官員的部分讓大家一起來努力以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1322\t6612\t謝謝主席 邀請我們黃部長跟蔡署長請部長還有蔡署長\n12391\t39523\t兩位午安今天討論到這個治安法嘛那一個法令訂定之後很重要的就是落地嘛那落地裡面就是執行就是我們的法令裡面有明確的規範到我們一些公務機關或者是非公務機關的特定機關必須要有自通安全的專責人員那我們有評估過在這個法令通過之後會衍生出多少的一個自通安全人員需要去補\n41500\t66080\t不含現在缺的啦,就是未來衍生新增的需求我們有一個統計大臣謝謝委員,就剛剛所提到的部分因為這個目前我們對治安人員的專職人員的配置公共機關的話是A級機關要配置四位專職人員B級是兩個,C級是一個那D跟E他可以不需要配置,因為他比較簡單這個是目前,那目前所缺人治安專職人員大概是239人\n68260\t84847\t新增的需要新增的239人需要新增含非公務機關如果說未來如果是新增加所管的非公務機關的話可能會比這個還更多所以二三級是公務機關\n88115\t115341\t12345目前是分ABCDE剛剛您講的就是公務機關嘛239那非公務的你們還沒有統計出來現在的法令沒有去要求非公務機關要設置專職人員那新法通過之後就會要求那個對所以我才講落地嘛就是法令通過之後落地之後非公務機關的特殊機關需要多少人你們現在還沒統計出來目前還沒有統計出來因為法還沒有通過\n116521\t141990\t你們應該會算法過了之後要多少人你們要先算出來才知道這法定的有沒有辦法實際去執行啊因為他們目前有些機關他們其實都有配置專職的治安人員啊這個他們也有配置那我們還沒有去精算說新法通過之後目前會缺多少好了你們應該是要早一點去算好需要多少人然後之後才會像現在既有的缺多少然後未來新增的需求是多少你才能夠去協助機關補足嘛\n142930\t166498\t那我確認一下機關的資通安全的專職人員他可能會去兼其他的業務嗎還是他就專職在資安的業務如果是專職的話就是說他只能做資安的工作那專職的話他就可以做其他資訊的工作等等的就是資通訊相關的工作那可能資安只是他工作的一個部分對\n167585\t195315\t好 那這個討論到資安的這個部分其實它有點像是網路的一個警察的一個概念啦那每個機關可能配置幾個人那每個機關的大小業務性質不太一樣那其實可能也會衍生出同工不同酬的一些問題啦你們有沒有考慮過既然它是一個類似警察的一個概念因為現在像是我們社會的警察我們像立法院或者是其他單位有需要\n196894\t224076\t這個安全防護的時候我們會請警政署協助嘛就會派出人員那如果說是比較沒有那麼高強度的一個維安需求的話機關他可能就是委託保全公司來做一個基本的一個管理那我覺得網路安全的部分也有點類似的概念如果說是我們比較需求比較低的那他就可能委託資安公司來做維安管理那比較需求的那目前我們的狀態是每個機關都要去自己設置人員我們有考慮過\n225277\t243326\t我們的資安署就類似警政署這樣的概念來統籌所有需要的人員因為我們資安人員不一定要在現場吧資安人員原則上都是在網路上面操作那每個機關去派駐的一個意義好像相對於警政機關來講的話更不需要在每個機關裡面去派駐我們都討論過這件事情\n246164\t274932\t是 跟委員報告大概就是兩個角度去想這是一個聯防的角度就是剛剛委員講的可能有一些機關他是低級或一級或是西級他的這個防護需求沒有那麼的需求那麼高那我們透過像一些聯防的機制來協助這個部分例如說我們盡量是用像GSN像政府機關來講GSN這邊政府的網路裡面的一些相關的一些攔阻或是防護部分來協助他們這個部分那是透過誰\n275692\t295572\t你說的聯防我們在治安院這邊我們跟這個訴訟室這邊有一個接生那這邊可以對政府的網路做一些防護的一些相關的措施所以我們這邊有一批人然後可以協助比較對技術上面的協助對對對就是有什麼問題可以協助他們是需要的時候另外一個是目前的法令規定裡面就是說假設你機會裡面沒有\n298194\t307156\t可以拚到足夠的專職人員的話你可以用委外人員暫時來替代那這個也可以補足目前治安人力不足的一個需求\n307805\t333396\t對 那我想說就是我們有沒有辦法像警慎署這樣子把所有的資安人員都我們就編列在我們資安署裡面然後協助各個機關來做資通訊的一個安全的維護不管是我們人類的調度還是我們相關人員的待遇編制工作時數等等的都在同一個部會裡面相對起來它是比較會穩定然後你可以跨機關去支援譬如說你剛剛講某一個機關四個人\n335237\t355878\t那可能突然遭遇到大量攻擊的時候他四個人不一定有辦法負荷嘛那如果說我們通通在資安署裡面的話那我們就可以很輕鬆的去調派啊我剛剛要請教的就是這個東西謝謝委員 這個的確是一個蠻好的一個方向啦就是說假設人力可以集中的話不管是教育訓練專業技能的提升我覺得這是一個蠻好的一個想法\n356258\t368044\t但是因為這整個治安人力一條邊涉及到人事人種等等相關的一些法令規定的這個體制那後續是不是容我們在後續研究那也要跟那個人事總書這邊在相關的溝通對所以這個當然還牽涉到我們人事組織法的一個問題啦所以說署長這邊也是認為如果說能夠一條邊那由我們這邊治安署統一來做一些管理跟協助機關做治安安全的話\n381651\t396602\t會是一個比較有效率的一個方式嗎對 這個同意 但是這個牽涉到組織法的調整好 沒關係 如果說我們的目標一致的話那我希望說後續我們需要提出修法的部分還是需要跟跨級官員的部分讓大家一起來努力 以上 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 邀請我們黃部長跟蔡署長請部長還有蔡署長\n兩位午安今天討論到這個治安法嘛那一個法令訂定之後很重要的就是落地嘛那落地裡面就是執行就是我們的法令裡面有明確的規範到我們一些公務機關或者是非公務機關的特定機關必須要有自通安全的專責人員那我們有評估過在這個法令通過之後會衍生出多少的一個自通安全人員需要去補\n不含現在缺的啦,就是未來衍生新增的需求我們有一個統計大臣謝謝委員,就剛剛所提到的部分因為這個目前我們對治安人員的專職人員的配置公共機關的話是A級機關要配置四位專職人員B級是兩個,C級是一個那D跟E他可以不需要配置,因為他比較簡單這個是目前,那目前所缺人治安專職人員大概是239人\n新增的需要新增的239人需要新增含非公務機關如果說未來如果是新增加所管的非公務機關的話可能會比這個還更多所以二三級是公務機關\n12345目前是分ABCDE剛剛您講的就是公務機關嘛239那非公務的你們還沒有統計出來現在的法令沒有去要求非公務機關要設置專職人員那新法通過之後就會要求那個對所以我才講落地嘛就是法令通過之後落地之後非公務機關的特殊機關需要多少人你們現在還沒統計出來目前還沒有統計出來因為法還沒有通過\n你們應該會算法過了之後要多少人你們要先算出來才知道這法定的有沒有辦法實際去執行啊因為他們目前有些機關他們其實都有配置專職的治安人員啊這個他們也有配置那我們還沒有去精算說新法通過之後目前會缺多少好了你們應該是要早一點去算好需要多少人然後之後才會像現在既有的缺多少然後未來新增的需求是多少你才能夠去協助機關補足嘛\n那我確認一下機關的資通安全的專職人員他可能會去兼其他的業務嗎還是他就專職在資安的業務如果是專職的話就是說他只能做資安的工作那專職的話他就可以做其他資訊的工作等等的就是資通訊相關的工作那可能資安只是他工作的一個部分對\n好 那這個討論到資安的這個部分其實它有點像是網路的一個警察的一個概念啦那每個機關可能配置幾個人那每個機關的大小業務性質不太一樣那其實可能也會衍生出同工不同酬的一些問題啦你們有沒有考慮過既然它是一個類似警察的一個概念因為現在像是我們社會的警察我們像立法院或者是其他單位有需要\n這個安全防護的時候我們會請警政署協助嘛就會派出人員那如果說是比較沒有那麼高強度的一個維安需求的話機關他可能就是委託保全公司來做一個基本的一個管理那我覺得網路安全的部分也有點類似的概念如果說是我們比較需求比較低的那他就可能委託資安公司來做維安管理那比較需求的那目前我們的狀態是每個機關都要去自己設置人員我們有考慮過\n我們的資安署就類似警政署這樣的概念來統籌所有需要的人員因為我們資安人員不一定要在現場吧資安人員原則上都是在網路上面操作那每個機關去派駐的一個意義好像相對於警政機關來講的話更不需要在每個機關裡面去派駐我們都討論過這件事情\n是 跟委員報告大概就是兩個角度去想這是一個聯防的角度就是剛剛委員講的可能有一些機關他是低級或一級或是西級他的這個防護需求沒有那麼的需求那麼高那我們透過像一些聯防的機制來協助這個部分例如說我們盡量是用像GSN像政府機關來講GSN這邊政府的網路裡面的一些相關的一些攔阻或是防護部分來協助他們這個部分那是透過誰\n你說的聯防我們在治安院這邊我們跟這個訴訟室這邊有一個接生那這邊可以對政府的網路做一些防護的一些相關的措施所以我們這邊有一批人然後可以協助比較對技術上面的協助對對對就是有什麼問題可以協助他們是需要的時候另外一個是目前的法令規定裡面就是說假設你機會裡面沒有\n可以拚到足夠的專職人員的話你可以用委外人員暫時來替代那這個也可以補足目前治安人力不足的一個需求\n對 那我想說就是我們有沒有辦法像警慎署這樣子把所有的資安人員都我們就編列在我們資安署裡面然後協助各個機關來做資通訊的一個安全的維護不管是我們人類的調度還是我們相關人員的待遇編制工作時數等等的都在同一個部會裡面相對起來它是比較會穩定然後你可以跨機關去支援譬如說你剛剛講某一個機關四個人\n那可能突然遭遇到大量攻擊的時候他四個人不一定有辦法負荷嘛那如果說我們通通在資安署裡面的話那我們就可以很輕鬆的去調派啊我剛剛要請教的就是這個東西謝謝委員 這個的確是一個蠻好的一個方向啦就是說假設人力可以集中的話不管是教育訓練專業技能的提升我覺得這是一個蠻好的一個想法\n但是因為這整個治安人力一條邊涉及到人事人種等等相關的一些法令規定的這個體制那後續是不是容我們在後續研究那也要跟那個人事總書這邊在相關的溝通對所以這個當然還牽涉到我們人事組織法的一個問題啦所以說署長這邊也是認為如果說能夠一條邊那由我們這邊治安署統一來做一些管理跟協助機關做治安安全的話\n會是一個比較有效率的一個方式嗎對 這個同意 但是這個牽涉到組織法的調整好 沒關係 如果說我們的目標一致的話那我希望說後續我們需要提出修法的部分還是需要跟跨級官員的部分讓大家一起來努力 以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.322 --> 00:06.612\n謝謝主席邀請我們黃部長跟蔡署長請部長還有蔡署長\n\n00:12.391 --> 00:39.523\n兩位午安今天討論到這個治安法嘛那一個法令訂定之後很重要的就是落地嘛那落地裡面就是執行就是我們的法令裡面有明確的規範到我們一些公務機關或者是非公務機關的特定機關必須要有自通安全的專責人員那我們有評估過在這個法令通過之後會衍生出多少的一個自通安全人員需要去補\n\n00:41.500 --> 01:06.080\n不含現在缺的啦,就是未來衍生新增的需求我們有一個統計大臣謝謝委員,就剛剛所提到的部分因為這個目前我們對治安人員的專職人員的配置公共機關的話是A級機關要配置四位專職人員B級是兩個,C級是一個那D跟E他可以不需要配置,因為他比較簡單這個是目前,那目前所缺人治安專職人員大概是239人\n\n01:08.260 --> 01:24.847\n新增的需要新增的239人需要新增含非公務機關如果說未來如果是新增加所管的非公務機關的話可能會比這個還更多所以二三級是公務機關\n\n01:28.115 --> 01:55.341\n12345目前是分ABCDE剛剛您講的就是公務機關嘛239那非公務的你們還沒有統計出來現在的法令沒有去要求非公務機關要設置專職人員那新法通過之後就會要求那個對所以我才講落地嘛就是法令通過之後落地之後非公務機關的特殊機關需要多少人你們現在還沒統計出來目前還沒有統計出來因為法還沒有通過\n\n01:56.521 --> 02:21.990\n你們應該會算法過了之後要多少人你們要先算出來才知道這法定的有沒有辦法實際去執行啊因為他們目前有些機關他們其實都有配置專職的治安人員啊這個他們也有配置那我們還沒有去精算說新法通過之後目前會缺多少好了你們應該是要早一點去算好需要多少人然後之後才會像現在既有的缺多少然後未來新增的需求是多少你才能夠去協助機關補足嘛\n\n02:22.930 --> 02:46.498\n那我確認一下機關的資通安全的專職人員他可能會去兼其他的業務嗎還是他就專職在資安的業務如果是專職的話就是說他只能做資安的工作那專職的話他就可以做其他資訊的工作等等的就是資通訊相關的工作那可能資安只是他工作的一個部分對\n\n02:47.585 --> 03:15.315\n好那這個討論到資安的這個部分其實它有點像是網路的一個警察的一個概念啦那每個機關可能配置幾個人那每個機關的大小業務性質不太一樣那其實可能也會衍生出同工不同酬的一些問題啦你們有沒有考慮過既然它是一個類似警察的一個概念因為現在像是我們社會的警察我們像立法院或者是其他單位有需要\n\n03:16.894 --> 03:44.076\n這個安全防護的時候我們會請警政署協助嘛就會派出人員那如果說是比較沒有那麼高強度的一個維安需求的話機關他可能就是委託保全公司來做一個基本的一個管理那我覺得網路安全的部分也有點類似的概念如果說是我們比較需求比較低的那他就可能委託資安公司來做維安管理那比較需求的那目前我們的狀態是每個機關都要去自己設置人員我們有考慮過\n\n03:45.277 --> 04:03.326\n我們的資安署就類似警政署這樣的概念來統籌所有需要的人員因為我們資安人員不一定要在現場吧資安人員原則上都是在網路上面操作那每個機關去派駐的一個意義好像相對於警政機關來講的話更不需要在每個機關裡面去派駐我們都討論過這件事情\n\n04:06.164 --> 04:34.932\n是跟委員報告大概就是兩個角度去想這是一個聯防的角度就是剛剛委員講的可能有一些機關他是低級或一級或是西級他的這個防護需求沒有那麼的需求那麼高那我們透過像一些聯防的機制來協助這個部分例如說我們盡量是用像GSN像政府機關來講GSN這邊政府的網路裡面的一些相關的一些攔阻或是防護部分來協助他們這個部分那是透過誰\n\n04:35.692 --> 04:55.572\n你說的聯防我們在治安院這邊我們跟這個訴訟室這邊有一個接生那這邊可以對政府的網路做一些防護的一些相關的措施所以我們這邊有一批人然後可以協助比較對技術上面的協助對對對就是有什麼問題可以協助他們是需要的時候另外一個是目前的法令規定裡面就是說假設你機會裡面沒有\n\n04:58.194 --> 05:07.156\n可以拚到足夠的專職人員的話你可以用委外人員暫時來替代那這個也可以補足目前治安人力不足的一個需求\n\n05:07.805 --> 05:33.396\n對那我想說就是我們有沒有辦法像警慎署這樣子把所有的資安人員都我們就編列在我們資安署裡面然後協助各個機關來做資通訊的一個安全的維護不管是我們人類的調度還是我們相關人員的待遇編制工作時數等等的都在同一個部會裡面相對起來它是比較會穩定然後你可以跨機關去支援譬如說你剛剛講某一個機關四個人\n\n05:35.237 --> 05:55.878\n那可能突然遭遇到大量攻擊的時候他四個人不一定有辦法負荷嘛那如果說我們通通在資安署裡面的話那我們就可以很輕鬆的去調派啊我剛剛要請教的就是這個東西謝謝委員這個的確是一個蠻好的一個方向啦就是說假設人力可以集中的話不管是教育訓練專業技能的提升我覺得這是一個蠻好的一個想法\n\n05:56.258 --> 06:08.044\n但是因為這整個治安人力一條邊涉及到人事人種等等相關的一些法令規定的這個體制那後續是不是容我們在後續研究那也要跟那個人事總書這邊在相關的溝通對所以這個當然還牽涉到我們人事組織法的一個問題啦所以說署長這邊也是認為如果說能夠一條邊那由我們這邊治安署統一來做一些管理跟協助機關做治安安全的話\n\n06:21.651 --> 06:36.602\n會是一個比較有效率的一個方式嗎對這個同意但是這個牽涉到組織法的調整好沒關係如果說我們的目標一致的話那我希望說後續我們需要提出修法的部分還是需要跟跨級官員的部分讓大家一起來努力以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.322,"end":6.612,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請我們黃部長跟蔡署長請部長還有蔡署長"},{"start":12.391,"end":39.523,"text":"兩位午安今天討論到這個治安法嘛那一個法令訂定之後很重要的就是落地嘛那落地裡面就是執行就是我們的法令裡面有明確的規範到我們一些公務機關或者是非公務機關的特定機關必須要有自通安全的專責人員那我們有評估過在這個法令通過之後會衍生出多少的一個自通安全人員需要去補"},{"start":41.5,"end":66.08,"text":"不含現在缺的啦,就是未來衍生新增的需求我們有一個統計大臣謝謝委員,就剛剛所提到的部分因為這個目前我們對治安人員的專職人員的配置公共機關的話是A級機關要配置四位專職人員B級是兩個,C級是一個那D跟E他可以不需要配置,因為他比較簡單這個是目前,那目前所缺人治安專職人員大概是239人"},{"start":68.26,"end":84.847,"text":"新增的需要新增的239人需要新增含非公務機關如果說未來如果是新增加所管的非公務機關的話可能會比這個還更多所以二三級是公務機關"},{"start":88.115,"end":115.341,"text":"12345目前是分ABCDE剛剛您講的就是公務機關嘛239那非公務的你們還沒有統計出來現在的法令沒有去要求非公務機關要設置專職人員那新法通過之後就會要求那個對所以我才講落地嘛就是法令通過之後落地之後非公務機關的特殊機關需要多少人你們現在還沒統計出來目前還沒有統計出來因為法還沒有通過"},{"start":116.521,"end":141.99,"text":"你們應該會算法過了之後要多少人你們要先算出來才知道這法定的有沒有辦法實際去執行啊因為他們目前有些機關他們其實都有配置專職的治安人員啊這個他們也有配置那我們還沒有去精算說新法通過之後目前會缺多少好了你們應該是要早一點去算好需要多少人然後之後才會像現在既有的缺多少然後未來新增的需求是多少你才能夠去協助機關補足嘛"},{"start":142.93,"end":166.498,"text":"那我確認一下機關的資通安全的專職人員他可能會去兼其他的業務嗎還是他就專職在資安的業務如果是專職的話就是說他只能做資安的工作那專職的話他就可以做其他資訊的工作等等的就是資通訊相關的工作那可能資安只是他工作的一個部分對"},{"start":167.585,"end":195.315,"text":"好 那這個討論到資安的這個部分其實它有點像是網路的一個警察的一個概念啦那每個機關可能配置幾個人那每個機關的大小業務性質不太一樣那其實可能也會衍生出同工不同酬的一些問題啦你們有沒有考慮過既然它是一個類似警察的一個概念因為現在像是我們社會的警察我們像立法院或者是其他單位有需要"},{"start":196.894,"end":224.076,"text":"這個安全防護的時候我們會請警政署協助嘛就會派出人員那如果說是比較沒有那麼高強度的一個維安需求的話機關他可能就是委託保全公司來做一個基本的一個管理那我覺得網路安全的部分也有點類似的概念如果說是我們比較需求比較低的那他就可能委託資安公司來做維安管理那比較需求的那目前我們的狀態是每個機關都要去自己設置人員我們有考慮過"},{"start":225.277,"end":243.326,"text":"我們的資安署就類似警政署這樣的概念來統籌所有需要的人員因為我們資安人員不一定要在現場吧資安人員原則上都是在網路上面操作那每個機關去派駐的一個意義好像相對於警政機關來講的話更不需要在每個機關裡面去派駐我們都討論過這件事情"},{"start":246.164,"end":274.932,"text":"是 跟委員報告大概就是兩個角度去想這是一個聯防的角度就是剛剛委員講的可能有一些機關他是低級或一級或是西級他的這個防護需求沒有那麼的需求那麼高那我們透過像一些聯防的機制來協助這個部分例如說我們盡量是用像GSN像政府機關來講GSN這邊政府的網路裡面的一些相關的一些攔阻或是防護部分來協助他們這個部分那是透過誰"},{"start":275.692,"end":295.572,"text":"你說的聯防我們在治安院這邊我們跟這個訴訟室這邊有一個接生那這邊可以對政府的網路做一些防護的一些相關的措施所以我們這邊有一批人然後可以協助比較對技術上面的協助對對對就是有什麼問題可以協助他們是需要的時候另外一個是目前的法令規定裡面就是說假設你機會裡面沒有"},{"start":298.194,"end":307.156,"text":"可以拚到足夠的專職人員的話你可以用委外人員暫時來替代那這個也可以補足目前治安人力不足的一個需求"},{"start":307.805,"end":333.396,"text":"對 那我想說就是我們有沒有辦法像警慎署這樣子把所有的資安人員都我們就編列在我們資安署裡面然後協助各個機關來做資通訊的一個安全的維護不管是我們人類的調度還是我們相關人員的待遇編制工作時數等等的都在同一個部會裡面相對起來它是比較會穩定然後你可以跨機關去支援譬如說你剛剛講某一個機關四個人"},{"start":335.237,"end":355.878,"text":"那可能突然遭遇到大量攻擊的時候他四個人不一定有辦法負荷嘛那如果說我們通通在資安署裡面的話那我們就可以很輕鬆的去調派啊我剛剛要請教的就是這個東西謝謝委員 這個的確是一個蠻好的一個方向啦就是說假設人力可以集中的話不管是教育訓練專業技能的提升我覺得這是一個蠻好的一個想法"},{"start":356.258,"end":368.044,"text":"但是因為這整個治安人力一條邊涉及到人事人種等等相關的一些法令規定的這個體制那後續是不是容我們在後續研究那也要跟那個人事總書這邊在相關的溝通對所以這個當然還牽涉到我們人事組織法的一個問題啦所以說署長這邊也是認為如果說能夠一條邊那由我們這邊治安署統一來做一些管理跟協助機關做治安安全的話"},{"start":381.651,"end":396.602,"text":"會是一個比較有效率的一個方式嗎對 這個同意 但是這個牽涉到組織法的調整好 沒關係 如果說我們的目標一致的話那我希望說後續我們需要提出修法的部分還是需要跟跨級官員的部分讓大家一起來努力 以上 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":488,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時28分）謝謝主席，邀請黃部長及蔡署長。"],["主席：請部長及蔡署長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：兩位午安。今天討論資安法，一個法令訂定之後，很重要的就是落地，落地就是執行，也就是法令裡面有明確規範到一些公務機關或者是非公務機關的特定機關必須要有資通安全的專責人員。請問你們有評估過在這個法令通過之後，會衍生出多少的資通安全人員需要去補嗎？不含現在缺的，是未來衍生新增的需求。"],["黃部長彥男：我們有一個統計，我請署長說明。"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員，就剛剛所提到的部分，目前我們對於資安專職人員的配置，若是公務機關，A級機關要配置4位專職人員、B級是2個、C級是1個，D跟E可以不需要配置，因為它比較簡單，目前所缺的資安專職人員大概是239人。"],["廖委員先翔：需要新增的？"],["蔡署長福隆：對，需要新增的有239人。"],["廖委員先翔：需要新增的，含非公務機關？"],["蔡署長福隆：未來如果是新增所管的非公務機關的話，可能會比這個還更多。"],["廖委員先翔：所以二三級是公務機關？"],["蔡署長福隆：我們目前是分A、B、C、D、E五個等級。"],["廖委員先翔：對，剛剛您講的就是公務機關嘛。"],["蔡署長福隆：對，公務機關。"],["廖委員先翔：239？"],["蔡署長福隆：對。"],["廖委員先翔：非公務的你們還沒有統計出來？"],["蔡署長福隆：因為現在的法令沒有去要求非公務機關要設置專職人員，新法通過之後就會要求……"],["廖委員先翔：對，所以我才講落地嘛，就是法令通過之後、落地之後，非公務機關的特殊機關需要多少人，你們現在還沒統計出來？"],["蔡署長福隆：目前還沒有統計出來，因為法還沒有通過。"],["廖委員先翔：你們應該會算法過了之後要多少人，你們要先算出來才知道這個法令有沒有辦法實際去執行啊！"],["蔡署長福隆：因為目前有些機關其實都有配置專職的資安人員，這個他們也有配置，我們還沒有去精算新法通過之後會缺多少……"],["廖委員先翔：好啦，你們應該是要早點去算好需要多少人，然後才會知道現在既有的缺多少、未來新增的需求是多少，你才能夠去協助機關補足。我確認一下，機關的資通安全專職人員，他可能會去兼其他的業務嗎？還是他就專職在資安的業務？"],["蔡署長福隆：如果是專責的話，他只能做資安的工作，專職的話就可以做其他資訊的工作等等。"],["廖委員先翔：就是資通訊相關的工作，可能資安只是他工作的一個部分？"],["蔡署長福隆：對。"],["廖委員先翔：好，討論到資安的這個部分，其實它有點像是網路警察的概念，每個機關配置幾個人，每個機關的大小、業務性質不太一樣，其實可能也會衍生出同工不同酬的一些問題，你們有沒有考慮過，既然它是一個類似警察的概念，因為像立法院或者是其他單位有需要安全防護的時候，我們會請警政署協助，它就會派駐人員。如果是比較沒有那麼高強度的維安需求的話，機關可能就是委託保全公司來做基本的管理，我覺得網路安全的部分也有點類似這個概念，如果是需求比較低的，它可能就委託資安公司來做維安管理；比較有需求的，目前我們的狀態是每個機關都要自己設置人員，你們有沒有考慮過，資安署就類似警政署這樣的概念，來統籌所有需要的人員，因為資安人員不一定要在現場，資安人員原則上都是在網路上面操作，相對於警政機關來講，更不需要在每個機關裡面去派駐，你們有沒有討論過這件事情？"],["蔡署長福隆：跟委員報告，大概就是從兩個角度去想，這是一個聯防的角度，這是剛剛委員講的，可能有一些機關是D級、E級或是C級，它的防護需求沒有那麼高，我們透過一些聯防的機制來協助這個部分。像政府機關來講，透過GSN政府網路裡面一些相關的攔阻或是防護的部分來協助他們。"],["廖委員先翔：那是透過誰？你說的聯防。"],["蔡署長福隆：在資安院這邊，我們跟數政司有一個GSN，可以對政府的網路做一些防護的相關措施。"],["廖委員先翔：所以你們這邊有一批人，可以協助級數比較低的？"],["蔡署長福隆：對，技術上面的協助，就是看有什麼問題，需要的時候可以協助他們。另外一個是目前的法令規定，假設機關裡面沒有聘到足夠的專責人員，可以用委外人員暫時替代，這個也可以補足目前資安人力不足的需求。"],["廖委員先翔：對，你們有沒有辦法像警政署這樣，把所有的資安人員編列在資安署裡面，協助各個機關來做資通訊的安全維護？不管是人力的調度，還是相關人員的待遇、編制、工作時數等等，都在同一個部會裡面，相對起來，他是比較穩定的，然後你可以跨機關去支援，譬如你剛剛講某個機關是4個人，可能突然遭遇到大量攻擊的時候，4個人不一定有辦法負荷，而如果是統統在資安署裡面的話，那就可以很輕鬆地去調派，我剛剛要請教的就是這個東西。"],["蔡署長福隆：是，謝謝委員，這個的確是一個滿好的方向，假設人力可以集中的話，不管是教育訓練、專業技能的提升，我覺得這是一個滿好的想法，但是因為整個資安人力是一條鞭，涉及到人事、人總等等相關的一些法令規定、體制，是不是容我們後續再研究，也要跟人事總處再進行相關的溝通。"],["廖委員先翔：對，這個當然還牽扯到人事組織法的問題，所以部長這邊也是認為如果能夠一條鞭，由你們資安署統一來做一些管理跟協助機關做資安的話，會是一個比較有效率的方式嘛。"],["黃部長彥男：對，這個同意，但這個確實牽涉到組織法的調整，要再跟人總討論一下。"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，如果我們的目標一致的話，我希望後續不管是我們需要提出修法的部分，還是需要跟跨機關協調的部分，大家一起來努力。以上，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","我們請陳素月委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-8","speakers":["許智傑","葛如鈞","黃國昌","黃捷","李柏毅","洪孟楷","李昆澤","蔡其昌","林國成","何欣純","徐富癸","游顥","林俊憲","魯明哲","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳素月","邱若華","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144202_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、行政院函請審議、二、委員沈伯洋等17人、三、委員葛如鈞等21人、四、委員賴瑞隆等\n17人、五、委員黃捷等17人、六、委員林宜瑾等18人、七、委員陳素月等24人、八、委員林俊憲\n等16人、九、委員羅美玲等21人、十、委員吳思瑤等17人、十一、台灣民眾黨黨團、十二、委員\n邱若華等17人分別擬具「資通安全管理法修正草案」案、十三、委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「資通安\n全管理法部分條文修正草案」案及十四、委員李柏毅等18人擬具「資通安全管理法第二條及第十\n一條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答及宣讀提案條文】","agenda_id":"1144202_00001"}}}