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234.615, \"text\": \"我們不管是核穀類的也好還有其他就是其實我們跟各國不是只有跟美國其實對於台灣以農業來講一定是台灣優先那但是糧食安全確實是要注意所以所以在整個我們對於這個橫頻的過程當中第一個一定是保障我們自己的台灣但是第二個安全的存量確實是一定還是要所以我剛剛有問說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 213.025, \"end\": 213.585, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 213.585, \"end\": 213.686, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 213.686, \"end\": 213.906, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 213.906, \"end\": 214.106, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 214.106, \"end\": 214.566, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"穀\"}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 214.566, \"end\": 214.686, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 214.686, \"end\": 214.886, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 214.886, \"end\": 215.026, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 215.026, \"end\": 215.186, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 215.186, \"end\": 215.306, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": 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732.531, \"end\": 732.551, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 735.189, \"end\": 735.33, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 735.33, \"end\": 736.2, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 736.2, \"end\": 736.22, \"score\": 0.186}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,167 --> 00:00:34,402\n主席我想說你沒有要叫人我們行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表顏惠欣還有經濟部的政務次長姜文洛還有農業部的常務次長杜文貞好姜次長還有農業部的次長經濟部今天都沒有人叫\n\n2\n00:00:41,004 --> 00:00:58,343\n好三位好2025年3月31號我們美國就已經公布了2025年對外貿易障礙評估報告去指控說台灣對豬肉牛肉馬鈴薯跟稻米跟基改食品設定貿易障礙所以對此可能會對我們台灣\n\n3\n00:01:00,424 --> 00:01:21,358\n關稅懲罰作為一個理由可是至上邊的數據來看的話台灣對美國的農產品的出口量事實上是相差20倍的貿易逆差我們不但沒有在美國便宜還有可能事實上會接受到傾銷所以我不知道嚴代表還有我們的江次長這邊想問兩位為了糧食自給率攸關我們國內的安全各國對此有\n\n4\n00:01:28,884 --> 00:01:56,844\n貿易限制美國台灣都有可是對這次美國指控你們兩位的看法是什麼好謝謝委員我先首先說明一下我們談判代表辦公室的立場就是基本上我們當然會去考量這個議題是多面向的議題所以除了要去跟美國去談關稅的問題以外實際上我們也知道這些產業農產實際上還要考量到國人健康跟消費習慣為基本的前提\n\n5\n00:01:57,324 --> 00:02:23,340\n但是呢我們當然也同時要去思考到這些國際標準要做一些橫頻的思考所以基本上我們會綜合這些因素然後基本上我們會尊重我們的農業跟經濟的主政單位來做一個通盤的一個立場的確認好謝謝代表那江次長這邊是謝謝委員貿易逆差是美方關切的議題但是除了貿易逆差以外他還有提出來\n\n6\n00:02:23,939 --> 00:02:41,038\n像非關稅的障礙等等也都是美方關切的一體所以我們政府是一體的從各個層面去運營我們相關的立場以上好謝謝次長那台灣的糧食至給率事實上是逐年下降到31.7%\n\n7\n00:02:43,487 --> 00:03:07,313\n特別是核穀類的糧食的供給量還不能滿足需求所以我們的稻米玉米大豆這種糧食的產量是不足的我們有進口的糧食調節存量的長期需求可是又不能放任我們的糧商被就是破壞價格之後傷害到糧農的利益所以想問我們的江市長跟我們的杜市長要購買糧食要調節供需需要保護糧農\n\n8\n00:03:11,574 --> 00:03:31,785\n面對任何能夠提供核穀類糧食的國家都應該保持歡迎的態度可是最怕的是就是被強迫傾銷所以美國有強迫傾銷的意圖嗎那政府怎麼去因應這個問題謝謝委員關心因為其實糧食安全這件事情真的很重要特別是在台灣其實在美聯\n\n9\n00:03:33,025 --> 00:03:54,615\n我們不管是核穀類的也好還有其他就是其實我們跟各國不是只有跟美國其實對於台灣以農業來講一定是台灣優先那但是糧食安全確實是要注意所以所以在整個我們對於這個橫頻的過程當中第一個一定是保障我們自己的台灣但是第二個安全的存量確實是一定還是要所以我剛剛有問說\n\n10\n00:03:56,676 --> 00:04:25,702\n最怕的是我們的強迫傾銷你覺得美國有這個意圖嗎應該這樣講其實我們也不是現在啦我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實也是面臨一樣很大的挑戰那但是我想為了台灣農業我們這樣的立場絕對還是要守住好那我續問我覺得在不傷害本國稻米價格的前提下台灣每季還可以增加多少的稻米的進口量這個數字農業部有沒有預先做估算能夠在這邊透露嗎\n\n11\n00:04:27,954 --> 00:04:48,079\n應該這樣說,我們這樣做不是怕那個糧其實對農民最大的幫助是確保他的收購價格、收入糧是一回事,糧有時候不是說要多少多少有時候氣候的變化真的不太能夠如我們所預期的有那麼多收穫但是確保農民的收入的價格,收購價格其實是重要的所以不是說我們要進口多少,還是說我們可以準備多少\n\n12\n00:04:50,600 --> 00:05:06,426\n而是說我們是雙重的標準在說第一個是確保農民收入一定要保障第二個我們的糧食存糧這塊也一定會守護所以我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實真的是那時候真的是很困難那我想我們經過那樣子的經歷之後怎麼守住台灣我們這塊其實我們是\n\n13\n00:05:08,027 --> 00:05:16,632\n有很堅定的立場在做我們再來看豬肉這一塊台灣2023年豬肉產值大於850億的新台幣國人平均消費量大概是36公斤自給率大概88.5%2024年進口的豬肉內臟食品總值大概10萬公噸所以是出口的40倍那美國進口\n\n14\n00:05:35,822 --> 00:05:55,035\n8041公噸佔總數的7.85%台灣豬肉沒有對美國出口所以想問一下2023年我們的豬瘟拔針今年有望為三大豬病非疫區的國家可是台灣的豬肉的出口卻相當疲弱那這是什麼原因\n\n15\n00:05:57,891 --> 00:06:11,127\n其實我們對疾病的控制不是只當作要做出口的唯一的目的第一個是我們的養豬產業能夠把成本降低能夠永續這是我們不管是做疾病清除也好\n\n16\n00:06:11,627 --> 00:06:35,828\n不管是做產業提升也好這是我們最大的目的那第二個台灣其實整個養豬的成本老實講確實是有點高有點高所以我們的出口市場其實是鎖定是高端市場那我們的養豬產業確實是也真的是很爭氣不只把口蹄清除把非洲豬人守住現在豬人也拔針也要被認可所以我覺得我們當然是有競爭力但是不是為了出口而出口\n\n17\n00:06:36,943 --> 00:07:05,539\n那關於台灣豬肉透過內銷跟出口來調節市場供需量的問題政府有沒有什麼策略應該是這樣講對我們來講其實台灣這個養豬產業確實要守住所以怎麼降低成本怎麼讓它永續經營這是第一件我們的養豬產業其實也體認到市場不是為了提供豬肉其實是有社會責任這是一個文化的那你2025年政府對於豬肉出口有沒有什麼計畫甚至台灣豬肉出口量你預估可以達到多少的成長率\n\n18\n00:07:06,179 --> 00:07:22,319\n這其實要看我們整個產業的支持我們不是為了出口而出口而是當作第一個是產銷調節的一個方式第二個我們針對不同市場特別是一些高端市場我們去鎖定讓我們的養豬農民出口是有利潤的不是只為了出口而出口這樣好\n\n19\n00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:40,610\n那一樣的再來談牛肉就是說我們台灣的牛肉需要大量仰賴進口所以因此牛肉進口不是政治問題而是供需的問題所以至於進口的條件就是法律問題食品安全衛生管理\n\n20\n00:07:41,531 --> 00:08:02,889\n就规定十年内发生狂牛症的国家获得是地区所产牛脂的头骨脑眼睛脊髓角肉内脏都不得输入所以一样问我们的杜次长现今美国是不是已经脱离了狂牛症的疫情到十年之久合乎我们六大禁止项目进口的条件\n\n21\n00:08:05,456 --> 00:08:32,839\n應該這樣說其實在世界動物衛生組織對於牛海綿狀腦病就是我們所俗稱的狂牛病其實它的認定方式已經不是以有沒有發生病例來看而是看它的風險那目前是有三個等級一個是風險可忽略一個是風險已控制那另外就是風險未知那對美國現在在世界動物衛生組織被認可是風險可忽略所以事實上它現在可以到它被認定的風險是風險可忽略\n\n22\n00:08:36,207 --> 00:08:49,776\n嚴代表想問一下如果美國尚未達到食品安全管理法規定的條件台灣便是很難滿足美國全面開放的要求面對貿易跟法律的兩難政府的態度是什麼\n\n23\n00:08:51,181 --> 00:09:08,102\n首先要說明的就是剛剛有提到美國現在被世界動物衛生組織所認定它在這個狂流症上面是風險可忽略區那這個風險可忽略區就這個世界衛生組織它的認定實際上是它的所有的部位\n\n24\n00:09:08,843 --> 00:09:24,814\n全流林都是安全可食用的這是我們從國際組織所得到的訊息但是這個符不符合我們國人的食用習慣以及國人對這個概念的這個接受的程度我覺得這是由我們的衛福跟農政的主管機關接下來再去做\n\n25\n00:09:25,314 --> 00:09:40,151\n進一步的專業上面的判斷跟評估那我想我們OTN就是經貿辦就是提供我們的農政跟衛福主管機關最這個堅強的後盾來然後確保我們國人的健康之下來做我們談判的立場\n\n26\n00:09:41,721 --> 00:10:00,958\n台灣有一套合格的農產品肉品的標示系統那建制這套系統的目的不是為了排斥美國的肉品是為了保障台灣消費者的知情權所以台灣豬農並不擔心任何國家進口肉品的競爭反而更在意的是進口肉品有沒有混雜\n\n27\n00:10:02,279 --> 00:10:21,999\n混充在臺灣豬肉流入市場這個事實上是長期比較關心的因此弱食食品標章事實上是消費者跟豬農的共同期待那消息會去年中旬的也有調查有6.5%的商品或店家沒有依規定標示並且肉品流向不明所以想問我們的嚴代表\n\n28\n00:10:23,260 --> 00:10:33,212\n臺灣農產品肉品標章行之有年是一項具有社會高度共識的制度面對美方認為標章會造成貿易障礙的誤解政府現在應對的態度是什麼\n\n29\n00:10:36,830 --> 00:10:56,824\n針對標章這個問題這樣更具體而言我想就是他有表示是原產地的標示以及國內標章的問題原產地的標示這是各國都有這個權利去要求還要確保他的進口來源因為他還有關稅上面的適用問題所以標示原產地這個是各國都該都擁有的權利\n\n30\n00:10:57,901 --> 00:11:16,461\n第二個呢針對說國內的這些食品標章的這件事情我想對台灣來說我們只要確保它是一體適用的一個做法那讓消費者有知的權利可以做在購買的時候做適當的選擇這個都是WTO國際規範上面容許各國可以做的事情\n\n31\n00:11:16,749 --> 00:11:42,274\n好農業部這邊想問說民間有政府提供系統供民眾查詢熱品流向的訴求就是不管經營部農業部大家的看法是什麼我想提供讓我們的消費者有能夠查詢有知道來源的這個基本的資訊我想應該是全民都希望的包括我自己也是消費者好經營部這邊\n\n32\n00:11:45,376 --> 00:12:12,551\n報告委員就如同前面一位杜次長說我們都是消費者所以我們都應該有吃的權利所以我覺得台美經貿要穩健發展所以我們希望農產品跟肉品有關國家應該適度保護可是台灣豬肉不怕競爭要爭取外銷所以希望農業部要加油那台灣牛肉進口的品項不是政治議題要符合法還是要符合法規食品標章我們還是希望能夠落實以上謝謝\n\n33\n00:12:15,189 --> 00:12:16,220\n謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10167\t34402\t主席 我想說你沒有要叫人我們行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表 顏惠欣還有經濟部的政務次長 姜文洛還有農業部的常務次長 杜文貞好 姜次長還有農業部的次長經濟部今天都沒有人叫\n41004\t58343\t好 三位好2025年3月31號我們美國就已經公布了2025年對外貿易障礙評估報告去指控說台灣對豬肉牛肉馬鈴薯跟稻米跟基改食品設定貿易障礙所以對此可能會對我們台灣\n60424\t81358\t關稅懲罰作為一個理由可是至上邊的數據來看的話台灣對美國的農產品的出口量事實上是相差20倍的貿易逆差我們不但沒有在美國便宜還有可能事實上會接受到傾銷所以我不知道嚴代表還有我們的江次長這邊想問兩位為了糧食自給率攸關我們國內的安全各國對此有\n88884\t116844\t貿易限制美國台灣都有可是對這次美國指控你們兩位的看法是什麼好 謝謝委員我先首先說明一下我們談判代表辦公室的立場就是基本上我們當然會去考量這個議題是多面向的議題所以除了要去跟美國去談關稅的問題以外實際上我們也知道這些產業農產實際上還要考量到國人健康跟消費習慣為基本的前提\n117324\t143340\t但是呢我們當然也同時要去思考到這些國際標準要做一些橫頻的思考所以基本上我們會綜合這些因素然後基本上我們會尊重我們的農業跟經濟的主政單位來做一個通盤的一個立場的確認好謝謝代表那江次長這邊是謝謝委員貿易逆差是美方關切的議題但是除了貿易逆差以外他還有提出來\n143939\t161038\t像非關稅的障礙等等也都是美方關切的一體所以我們政府是一體的從各個層面去運營我們相關的立場以上好 謝謝次長那台灣的糧食至給率事實上是逐年下降到31.7%\n163487\t187313\t特別是核穀類的糧食的供給量還不能滿足需求所以我們的稻米玉米大豆這種糧食的產量是不足的我們有進口的糧食調節存量的長期需求可是又不能放任我們的糧商被就是破壞價格之後傷害到糧農的利益所以想問我們的江市長跟我們的杜市長要購買糧食要調節供需需要保護糧農\n191574\t211785\t面對任何能夠提供核穀類糧食的國家都應該保持歡迎的態度可是最怕的是就是被強迫傾銷所以美國有強迫傾銷的意圖嗎那政府怎麼去因應這個問題謝謝委員關心因為其實糧食安全這件事情真的很重要特別是在台灣其實在美聯\n213025\t234615\t我們不管是核穀類的也好還有其他就是其實我們跟各國不是只有跟美國其實對於台灣以農業來講一定是台灣優先那但是糧食安全確實是要注意所以所以在整個我們對於這個橫頻的過程當中第一個一定是保障我們自己的台灣但是第二個安全的存量確實是一定還是要所以我剛剛有問說\n236676\t265702\t最怕的是我們的強迫傾銷你覺得美國有這個意圖嗎應該這樣講其實我們也不是現在啦我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實也是面臨一樣很大的挑戰那但是我想為了台灣農業我們這樣的立場絕對還是要守住好那我續問我覺得在不傷害本國稻米價格的前提下台灣每季還可以增加多少的稻米的進口量這個數字農業部有沒有預先做估算能夠在這邊透露嗎\n267954\t288079\t應該這樣說,我們這樣做不是怕那個糧其實對農民最大的幫助是確保他的收購價格、收入糧是一回事,糧有時候不是說要多少多少有時候氣候的變化真的不太能夠如我們所預期的有那麼多收穫但是確保農民的收入的價格,收購價格其實是重要的所以不是說我們要進口多少,還是說我們可以準備多少\n290600\t306426\t而是說我們是雙重的標準在說第一個是確保農民收入一定要保障第二個我們的糧食存糧這塊也一定會守護所以我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實真的是那時候真的是很困難那我想我們經過那樣子的經歷之後怎麼守住台灣我們這塊其實我們是\n308027\t316632\t有很堅定的立場在做我們再來看豬肉這一塊台灣2023年豬肉產值大於850億的新台幣國人平均消費量大概是36公斤 自給率大概88.5%2024年進口的豬肉內臟食品總值大概10萬公噸所以是出口的40倍那美國進口\n335822\t355035\t8041公噸 佔總數的7.85%台灣豬肉沒有對美國出口所以想問一下2023年我們的豬瘟拔針今年有望為三大豬病非疫區的國家可是台灣的豬肉的出口卻相當疲弱那這是什麼原因\n357891\t371127\t其實我們對疾病的控制不是只當作要做出口的唯一的目的第一個是我們的養豬產業能夠把成本降低能夠永續這是我們不管是做疾病清除也好\n371627\t395828\t不管是做產業提升也好這是我們最大的目的那第二個台灣其實整個養豬的成本老實講確實是有點高有點高所以我們的出口市場其實是鎖定是高端市場那我們的養豬產業確實是也真的是很爭氣不只把口蹄清除把非洲豬人守住現在豬人也拔針也要被認可所以我覺得我們當然是有競爭力但是不是為了出口而出口\n396943\t425539\t那關於台灣豬肉透過內銷跟出口來調節市場供需量的問題政府有沒有什麼策略應該是這樣講對我們來講其實台灣這個養豬產業確實要守住所以怎麼降低成本怎麼讓它永續經營這是第一件我們的養豬產業其實也體認到市場不是為了提供豬肉其實是有社會責任這是一個文化的那你2025年政府對於豬肉出口有沒有什麼計畫甚至台灣豬肉出口量你預估可以達到多少的成長率\n426179\t442319\t這其實要看我們整個產業的支持我們不是為了出口而出口而是當作第一個是產銷調節的一個方式第二個我們針對不同市場特別是一些高端市場我們去鎖定讓我們的養豬農民出口是有利潤的不是只為了出口而出口這樣好\n443180\t460610\t那一樣的再來談牛肉就是說我們台灣的牛肉需要大量仰賴進口所以因此牛肉進口不是政治問題而是供需的問題所以至於進口的條件就是法律問題食品安全衛生管理\n461531\t482889\t就规定十年内发生狂牛症的国家获得是地区所产牛脂的头骨脑眼睛脊髓角肉内脏都不得输入所以一样问我们的杜次长现今美国是不是已经脱离了狂牛症的疫情到十年之久合乎我们六大禁止项目进口的条件\n485456\t512839\t應該這樣說其實在世界動物衛生組織對於牛海綿狀腦病就是我們所俗稱的狂牛病其實它的認定方式已經不是以有沒有發生病例來看而是看它的風險那目前是有三個等級一個是風險可忽略一個是風險已控制那另外就是風險未知那對美國現在在世界動物衛生組織被認可是風險可忽略所以事實上它現在可以到它被認定的風險是風險可忽略\n516207\t529776\t嚴代表想問一下如果美國尚未達到食品安全管理法規定的條件台灣便是很難滿足美國全面開放的要求面對貿易跟法律的兩難政府的態度是什麼\n531181\t548102\t首先要說明的就是剛剛有提到美國現在被世界動物衛生組織所認定它在這個狂流症上面是風險可忽略區那這個風險可忽略區就這個世界衛生組織它的認定實際上是它的所有的部位\n548843\t564814\t全流林都是安全可食用的這是我們從國際組織所得到的訊息但是這個符不符合我們國人的食用習慣以及國人對這個概念的這個接受的程度我覺得這是由我們的衛福跟農政的主管機關接下來再去做\n565314\t580151\t進一步的專業上面的判斷跟評估那我想我們OTN就是經貿辦就是提供我們的農政跟衛福主管機關最這個堅強的後盾來然後確保我們國人的健康之下來做我們談判的立場\n581721\t600958\t台灣有一套合格的農產品肉品的標示系統那建制這套系統的目的不是為了排斥美國的肉品是為了保障台灣消費者的知情權所以台灣豬農並不擔心任何國家進口肉品的競爭反而更在意的是進口肉品有沒有混雜\n602279\t621999\t混充在臺灣豬肉流入市場這個事實上是長期比較關心的因此弱食食品標章事實上是消費者跟豬農的共同期待那消息會去年中旬的也有調查有6.5%的商品或店家沒有依規定標示並且肉品流向不明所以想問我們的嚴代表\n623260\t633212\t臺灣農產品肉品標章行之有年是一項具有社會高度共識的制度面對美方認為標章會造成貿易障礙的誤解政府現在應對的態度是什麼\n636830\t656824\t針對標章這個問題這樣更具體而言我想就是他有表示是原產地的標示以及國內標章的問題原產地的標示這是各國都有這個權利去要求還要確保他的進口來源因為他還有關稅上面的適用問題所以標示原產地這個是各國都該都擁有的權利\n657901\t676461\t第二個呢針對說國內的這些食品標章的這件事情我想對台灣來說我們只要確保它是一體適用的一個做法那讓消費者有知的權利可以做在購買的時候做適當的選擇這個都是WTO國際規範上面容許各國可以做的事情\n676749\t702274\t好 農業部這邊想問說 民間有政府提供系統供民眾查詢熱品流向的訴求就是不管經營部 農業部 大家的看法是什麼我想提供讓我們的消費者有能夠查詢 有知道來源的這個基本的資訊 我想應該是全民都希望的 包括我自己也是消費者好 經營部這邊\n705376\t732551\t報告委員就如同前面一位杜次長說我們都是消費者所以我們都應該有吃的權利所以我覺得台美經貿要穩健發展所以我們希望農產品跟肉品有關國家應該適度保護可是台灣豬肉不怕競爭要爭取外銷所以希望農業部要加油那台灣牛肉進口的品項不是政治議題要符合法還是要符合法規食品標章我們還是希望能夠落實以上謝謝\n735189\t736220\t謝謝林委員 謝謝部長\n","txt":"主席 我想說你沒有要叫人我們行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表 顏惠欣還有經濟部的政務次長 姜文洛還有農業部的常務次長 杜文貞好 姜次長還有農業部的次長經濟部今天都沒有人叫\n好 三位好2025年3月31號我們美國就已經公布了2025年對外貿易障礙評估報告去指控說台灣對豬肉牛肉馬鈴薯跟稻米跟基改食品設定貿易障礙所以對此可能會對我們台灣\n關稅懲罰作為一個理由可是至上邊的數據來看的話台灣對美國的農產品的出口量事實上是相差20倍的貿易逆差我們不但沒有在美國便宜還有可能事實上會接受到傾銷所以我不知道嚴代表還有我們的江次長這邊想問兩位為了糧食自給率攸關我們國內的安全各國對此有\n貿易限制美國台灣都有可是對這次美國指控你們兩位的看法是什麼好 謝謝委員我先首先說明一下我們談判代表辦公室的立場就是基本上我們當然會去考量這個議題是多面向的議題所以除了要去跟美國去談關稅的問題以外實際上我們也知道這些產業農產實際上還要考量到國人健康跟消費習慣為基本的前提\n但是呢我們當然也同時要去思考到這些國際標準要做一些橫頻的思考所以基本上我們會綜合這些因素然後基本上我們會尊重我們的農業跟經濟的主政單位來做一個通盤的一個立場的確認好謝謝代表那江次長這邊是謝謝委員貿易逆差是美方關切的議題但是除了貿易逆差以外他還有提出來\n像非關稅的障礙等等也都是美方關切的一體所以我們政府是一體的從各個層面去運營我們相關的立場以上好 謝謝次長那台灣的糧食至給率事實上是逐年下降到31.7%\n特別是核穀類的糧食的供給量還不能滿足需求所以我們的稻米玉米大豆這種糧食的產量是不足的我們有進口的糧食調節存量的長期需求可是又不能放任我們的糧商被就是破壞價格之後傷害到糧農的利益所以想問我們的江市長跟我們的杜市長要購買糧食要調節供需需要保護糧農\n面對任何能夠提供核穀類糧食的國家都應該保持歡迎的態度可是最怕的是就是被強迫傾銷所以美國有強迫傾銷的意圖嗎那政府怎麼去因應這個問題謝謝委員關心因為其實糧食安全這件事情真的很重要特別是在台灣其實在美聯\n我們不管是核穀類的也好還有其他就是其實我們跟各國不是只有跟美國其實對於台灣以農業來講一定是台灣優先那但是糧食安全確實是要注意所以所以在整個我們對於這個橫頻的過程當中第一個一定是保障我們自己的台灣但是第二個安全的存量確實是一定還是要所以我剛剛有問說\n最怕的是我們的強迫傾銷你覺得美國有這個意圖嗎應該這樣講其實我們也不是現在啦我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實也是面臨一樣很大的挑戰那但是我想為了台灣農業我們這樣的立場絕對還是要守住好那我續問我覺得在不傷害本國稻米價格的前提下台灣每季還可以增加多少的稻米的進口量這個數字農業部有沒有預先做估算能夠在這邊透露嗎\n應該這樣說,我們這樣做不是怕那個糧其實對農民最大的幫助是確保他的收購價格、收入糧是一回事,糧有時候不是說要多少多少有時候氣候的變化真的不太能夠如我們所預期的有那麼多收穫但是確保農民的收入的價格,收購價格其實是重要的所以不是說我們要進口多少,還是說我們可以準備多少\n而是說我們是雙重的標準在說第一個是確保農民收入一定要保障第二個我們的糧食存糧這塊也一定會守護所以我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實真的是那時候真的是很困難那我想我們經過那樣子的經歷之後怎麼守住台灣我們這塊其實我們是\n有很堅定的立場在做我們再來看豬肉這一塊台灣2023年豬肉產值大於850億的新台幣國人平均消費量大概是36公斤 自給率大概88.5%2024年進口的豬肉內臟食品總值大概10萬公噸所以是出口的40倍那美國進口\n8041公噸 佔總數的7.85%台灣豬肉沒有對美國出口所以想問一下2023年我們的豬瘟拔針今年有望為三大豬病非疫區的國家可是台灣的豬肉的出口卻相當疲弱那這是什麼原因\n其實我們對疾病的控制不是只當作要做出口的唯一的目的第一個是我們的養豬產業能夠把成本降低能夠永續這是我們不管是做疾病清除也好\n不管是做產業提升也好這是我們最大的目的那第二個台灣其實整個養豬的成本老實講確實是有點高有點高所以我們的出口市場其實是鎖定是高端市場那我們的養豬產業確實是也真的是很爭氣不只把口蹄清除把非洲豬人守住現在豬人也拔針也要被認可所以我覺得我們當然是有競爭力但是不是為了出口而出口\n那關於台灣豬肉透過內銷跟出口來調節市場供需量的問題政府有沒有什麼策略應該是這樣講對我們來講其實台灣這個養豬產業確實要守住所以怎麼降低成本怎麼讓它永續經營這是第一件我們的養豬產業其實也體認到市場不是為了提供豬肉其實是有社會責任這是一個文化的那你2025年政府對於豬肉出口有沒有什麼計畫甚至台灣豬肉出口量你預估可以達到多少的成長率\n這其實要看我們整個產業的支持我們不是為了出口而出口而是當作第一個是產銷調節的一個方式第二個我們針對不同市場特別是一些高端市場我們去鎖定讓我們的養豬農民出口是有利潤的不是只為了出口而出口這樣好\n那一樣的再來談牛肉就是說我們台灣的牛肉需要大量仰賴進口所以因此牛肉進口不是政治問題而是供需的問題所以至於進口的條件就是法律問題食品安全衛生管理\n就规定十年内发生狂牛症的国家获得是地区所产牛脂的头骨脑眼睛脊髓角肉内脏都不得输入所以一样问我们的杜次长现今美国是不是已经脱离了狂牛症的疫情到十年之久合乎我们六大禁止项目进口的条件\n應該這樣說其實在世界動物衛生組織對於牛海綿狀腦病就是我們所俗稱的狂牛病其實它的認定方式已經不是以有沒有發生病例來看而是看它的風險那目前是有三個等級一個是風險可忽略一個是風險已控制那另外就是風險未知那對美國現在在世界動物衛生組織被認可是風險可忽略所以事實上它現在可以到它被認定的風險是風險可忽略\n嚴代表想問一下如果美國尚未達到食品安全管理法規定的條件台灣便是很難滿足美國全面開放的要求面對貿易跟法律的兩難政府的態度是什麼\n首先要說明的就是剛剛有提到美國現在被世界動物衛生組織所認定它在這個狂流症上面是風險可忽略區那這個風險可忽略區就這個世界衛生組織它的認定實際上是它的所有的部位\n全流林都是安全可食用的這是我們從國際組織所得到的訊息但是這個符不符合我們國人的食用習慣以及國人對這個概念的這個接受的程度我覺得這是由我們的衛福跟農政的主管機關接下來再去做\n進一步的專業上面的判斷跟評估那我想我們OTN就是經貿辦就是提供我們的農政跟衛福主管機關最這個堅強的後盾來然後確保我們國人的健康之下來做我們談判的立場\n台灣有一套合格的農產品肉品的標示系統那建制這套系統的目的不是為了排斥美國的肉品是為了保障台灣消費者的知情權所以台灣豬農並不擔心任何國家進口肉品的競爭反而更在意的是進口肉品有沒有混雜\n混充在臺灣豬肉流入市場這個事實上是長期比較關心的因此弱食食品標章事實上是消費者跟豬農的共同期待那消息會去年中旬的也有調查有6.5%的商品或店家沒有依規定標示並且肉品流向不明所以想問我們的嚴代表\n臺灣農產品肉品標章行之有年是一項具有社會高度共識的制度面對美方認為標章會造成貿易障礙的誤解政府現在應對的態度是什麼\n針對標章這個問題這樣更具體而言我想就是他有表示是原產地的標示以及國內標章的問題原產地的標示這是各國都有這個權利去要求還要確保他的進口來源因為他還有關稅上面的適用問題所以標示原產地這個是各國都該都擁有的權利\n第二個呢針對說國內的這些食品標章的這件事情我想對台灣來說我們只要確保它是一體適用的一個做法那讓消費者有知的權利可以做在購買的時候做適當的選擇這個都是WTO國際規範上面容許各國可以做的事情\n好 農業部這邊想問說 民間有政府提供系統供民眾查詢熱品流向的訴求就是不管經營部 農業部 大家的看法是什麼我想提供讓我們的消費者有能夠查詢 有知道來源的這個基本的資訊 我想應該是全民都希望的 包括我自己也是消費者好 經營部這邊\n報告委員就如同前面一位杜次長說我們都是消費者所以我們都應該有吃的權利所以我覺得台美經貿要穩健發展所以我們希望農產品跟肉品有關國家應該適度保護可是台灣豬肉不怕競爭要爭取外銷所以希望農業部要加油那台灣牛肉進口的品項不是政治議題要符合法還是要符合法規食品標章我們還是希望能夠落實以上謝謝\n謝謝林委員 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.167 --> 00:34.402\n主席我想說你沒有要叫人我們行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表顏惠欣還有經濟部的政務次長姜文洛還有農業部的常務次長杜文貞好姜次長還有農業部的次長經濟部今天都沒有人叫\n\n00:41.004 --> 00:58.343\n好三位好2025年3月31號我們美國就已經公布了2025年對外貿易障礙評估報告去指控說台灣對豬肉牛肉馬鈴薯跟稻米跟基改食品設定貿易障礙所以對此可能會對我們台灣\n\n01:00.424 --> 01:21.358\n關稅懲罰作為一個理由可是至上邊的數據來看的話台灣對美國的農產品的出口量事實上是相差20倍的貿易逆差我們不但沒有在美國便宜還有可能事實上會接受到傾銷所以我不知道嚴代表還有我們的江次長這邊想問兩位為了糧食自給率攸關我們國內的安全各國對此有\n\n01:28.884 --> 01:56.844\n貿易限制美國台灣都有可是對這次美國指控你們兩位的看法是什麼好謝謝委員我先首先說明一下我們談判代表辦公室的立場就是基本上我們當然會去考量這個議題是多面向的議題所以除了要去跟美國去談關稅的問題以外實際上我們也知道這些產業農產實際上還要考量到國人健康跟消費習慣為基本的前提\n\n01:57.324 --> 02:23.340\n但是呢我們當然也同時要去思考到這些國際標準要做一些橫頻的思考所以基本上我們會綜合這些因素然後基本上我們會尊重我們的農業跟經濟的主政單位來做一個通盤的一個立場的確認好謝謝代表那江次長這邊是謝謝委員貿易逆差是美方關切的議題但是除了貿易逆差以外他還有提出來\n\n02:23.939 --> 02:41.038\n像非關稅的障礙等等也都是美方關切的一體所以我們政府是一體的從各個層面去運營我們相關的立場以上好謝謝次長那台灣的糧食至給率事實上是逐年下降到31.7%\n\n02:43.487 --> 03:07.313\n特別是核穀類的糧食的供給量還不能滿足需求所以我們的稻米玉米大豆這種糧食的產量是不足的我們有進口的糧食調節存量的長期需求可是又不能放任我們的糧商被就是破壞價格之後傷害到糧農的利益所以想問我們的江市長跟我們的杜市長要購買糧食要調節供需需要保護糧農\n\n03:11.574 --> 03:31.785\n面對任何能夠提供核穀類糧食的國家都應該保持歡迎的態度可是最怕的是就是被強迫傾銷所以美國有強迫傾銷的意圖嗎那政府怎麼去因應這個問題謝謝委員關心因為其實糧食安全這件事情真的很重要特別是在台灣其實在美聯\n\n03:33.025 --> 03:54.615\n我們不管是核穀類的也好還有其他就是其實我們跟各國不是只有跟美國其實對於台灣以農業來講一定是台灣優先那但是糧食安全確實是要注意所以所以在整個我們對於這個橫頻的過程當中第一個一定是保障我們自己的台灣但是第二個安全的存量確實是一定還是要所以我剛剛有問說\n\n03:56.676 --> 04:25.702\n最怕的是我們的強迫傾銷你覺得美國有這個意圖嗎應該這樣講其實我們也不是現在啦我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實也是面臨一樣很大的挑戰那但是我想為了台灣農業我們這樣的立場絕對還是要守住好那我續問我覺得在不傷害本國稻米價格的前提下台灣每季還可以增加多少的稻米的進口量這個數字農業部有沒有預先做估算能夠在這邊透露嗎\n\n04:27.954 --> 04:48.079\n應該這樣說,我們這樣做不是怕那個糧其實對農民最大的幫助是確保他的收購價格、收入糧是一回事,糧有時候不是說要多少多少有時候氣候的變化真的不太能夠如我們所預期的有那麼多收穫但是確保農民的收入的價格,收購價格其實是重要的所以不是說我們要進口多少,還是說我們可以準備多少\n\n04:50.600 --> 05:06.426\n而是說我們是雙重的標準在說第一個是確保農民收入一定要保障第二個我們的糧食存糧這塊也一定會守護所以我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實真的是那時候真的是很困難那我想我們經過那樣子的經歷之後怎麼守住台灣我們這塊其實我們是\n\n05:08.027 --> 05:16.632\n有很堅定的立場在做我們再來看豬肉這一塊台灣2023年豬肉產值大於850億的新台幣國人平均消費量大概是36公斤自給率大概88.5%2024年進口的豬肉內臟食品總值大概10萬公噸所以是出口的40倍那美國進口\n\n05:35.822 --> 05:55.035\n8041公噸佔總數的7.85%台灣豬肉沒有對美國出口所以想問一下2023年我們的豬瘟拔針今年有望為三大豬病非疫區的國家可是台灣的豬肉的出口卻相當疲弱那這是什麼原因\n\n05:57.891 --> 06:11.127\n其實我們對疾病的控制不是只當作要做出口的唯一的目的第一個是我們的養豬產業能夠把成本降低能夠永續這是我們不管是做疾病清除也好\n\n06:11.627 --> 06:35.828\n不管是做產業提升也好這是我們最大的目的那第二個台灣其實整個養豬的成本老實講確實是有點高有點高所以我們的出口市場其實是鎖定是高端市場那我們的養豬產業確實是也真的是很爭氣不只把口蹄清除把非洲豬人守住現在豬人也拔針也要被認可所以我覺得我們當然是有競爭力但是不是為了出口而出口\n\n06:36.943 --> 07:05.539\n那關於台灣豬肉透過內銷跟出口來調節市場供需量的問題政府有沒有什麼策略應該是這樣講對我們來講其實台灣這個養豬產業確實要守住所以怎麼降低成本怎麼讓它永續經營這是第一件我們的養豬產業其實也體認到市場不是為了提供豬肉其實是有社會責任這是一個文化的那你2025年政府對於豬肉出口有沒有什麼計畫甚至台灣豬肉出口量你預估可以達到多少的成長率\n\n07:06.179 --> 07:22.319\n這其實要看我們整個產業的支持我們不是為了出口而出口而是當作第一個是產銷調節的一個方式第二個我們針對不同市場特別是一些高端市場我們去鎖定讓我們的養豬農民出口是有利潤的不是只為了出口而出口這樣好\n\n07:23.180 --> 07:40.610\n那一樣的再來談牛肉就是說我們台灣的牛肉需要大量仰賴進口所以因此牛肉進口不是政治問題而是供需的問題所以至於進口的條件就是法律問題食品安全衛生管理\n\n07:41.531 --> 08:02.889\n就规定十年内发生狂牛症的国家获得是地区所产牛脂的头骨脑眼睛脊髓角肉内脏都不得输入所以一样问我们的杜次长现今美国是不是已经脱离了狂牛症的疫情到十年之久合乎我们六大禁止项目进口的条件\n\n08:05.456 --> 08:32.839\n應該這樣說其實在世界動物衛生組織對於牛海綿狀腦病就是我們所俗稱的狂牛病其實它的認定方式已經不是以有沒有發生病例來看而是看它的風險那目前是有三個等級一個是風險可忽略一個是風險已控制那另外就是風險未知那對美國現在在世界動物衛生組織被認可是風險可忽略所以事實上它現在可以到它被認定的風險是風險可忽略\n\n08:36.207 --> 08:49.776\n嚴代表想問一下如果美國尚未達到食品安全管理法規定的條件台灣便是很難滿足美國全面開放的要求面對貿易跟法律的兩難政府的態度是什麼\n\n08:51.181 --> 09:08.102\n首先要說明的就是剛剛有提到美國現在被世界動物衛生組織所認定它在這個狂流症上面是風險可忽略區那這個風險可忽略區就這個世界衛生組織它的認定實際上是它的所有的部位\n\n09:08.843 --> 09:24.814\n全流林都是安全可食用的這是我們從國際組織所得到的訊息但是這個符不符合我們國人的食用習慣以及國人對這個概念的這個接受的程度我覺得這是由我們的衛福跟農政的主管機關接下來再去做\n\n09:25.314 --> 09:40.151\n進一步的專業上面的判斷跟評估那我想我們OTN就是經貿辦就是提供我們的農政跟衛福主管機關最這個堅強的後盾來然後確保我們國人的健康之下來做我們談判的立場\n\n09:41.721 --> 10:00.958\n台灣有一套合格的農產品肉品的標示系統那建制這套系統的目的不是為了排斥美國的肉品是為了保障台灣消費者的知情權所以台灣豬農並不擔心任何國家進口肉品的競爭反而更在意的是進口肉品有沒有混雜\n\n10:02.279 --> 10:21.999\n混充在臺灣豬肉流入市場這個事實上是長期比較關心的因此弱食食品標章事實上是消費者跟豬農的共同期待那消息會去年中旬的也有調查有6.5%的商品或店家沒有依規定標示並且肉品流向不明所以想問我們的嚴代表\n\n10:23.260 --> 10:33.212\n臺灣農產品肉品標章行之有年是一項具有社會高度共識的制度面對美方認為標章會造成貿易障礙的誤解政府現在應對的態度是什麼\n\n10:36.830 --> 10:56.824\n針對標章這個問題這樣更具體而言我想就是他有表示是原產地的標示以及國內標章的問題原產地的標示這是各國都有這個權利去要求還要確保他的進口來源因為他還有關稅上面的適用問題所以標示原產地這個是各國都該都擁有的權利\n\n10:57.901 --> 11:16.461\n第二個呢針對說國內的這些食品標章的這件事情我想對台灣來說我們只要確保它是一體適用的一個做法那讓消費者有知的權利可以做在購買的時候做適當的選擇這個都是WTO國際規範上面容許各國可以做的事情\n\n11:16.749 --> 11:42.274\n好農業部這邊想問說民間有政府提供系統供民眾查詢熱品流向的訴求就是不管經營部農業部大家的看法是什麼我想提供讓我們的消費者有能夠查詢有知道來源的這個基本的資訊我想應該是全民都希望的包括我自己也是消費者好經營部這邊\n\n11:45.376 --> 12:12.551\n報告委員就如同前面一位杜次長說我們都是消費者所以我們都應該有吃的權利所以我覺得台美經貿要穩健發展所以我們希望農產品跟肉品有關國家應該適度保護可是台灣豬肉不怕競爭要爭取外銷所以希望農業部要加油那台灣牛肉進口的品項不是政治議題要符合法還是要符合法規食品標章我們還是希望能夠落實以上謝謝\n\n12:15.189 --> 12:16.220\n謝謝林委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.167,"end":34.402,"text":"主席 我想說你沒有要叫人我們行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表 顏惠欣還有經濟部的政務次長 姜文洛還有農業部的常務次長 杜文貞好 姜次長還有農業部的次長經濟部今天都沒有人叫"},{"start":41.004,"end":58.343,"text":"好 三位好2025年3月31號我們美國就已經公布了2025年對外貿易障礙評估報告去指控說台灣對豬肉牛肉馬鈴薯跟稻米跟基改食品設定貿易障礙所以對此可能會對我們台灣"},{"start":60.424,"end":81.358,"text":"關稅懲罰作為一個理由可是至上邊的數據來看的話台灣對美國的農產品的出口量事實上是相差20倍的貿易逆差我們不但沒有在美國便宜還有可能事實上會接受到傾銷所以我不知道嚴代表還有我們的江次長這邊想問兩位為了糧食自給率攸關我們國內的安全各國對此有"},{"start":88.884,"end":116.844,"text":"貿易限制美國台灣都有可是對這次美國指控你們兩位的看法是什麼好 謝謝委員我先首先說明一下我們談判代表辦公室的立場就是基本上我們當然會去考量這個議題是多面向的議題所以除了要去跟美國去談關稅的問題以外實際上我們也知道這些產業農產實際上還要考量到國人健康跟消費習慣為基本的前提"},{"start":117.324,"end":143.34,"text":"但是呢我們當然也同時要去思考到這些國際標準要做一些橫頻的思考所以基本上我們會綜合這些因素然後基本上我們會尊重我們的農業跟經濟的主政單位來做一個通盤的一個立場的確認好謝謝代表那江次長這邊是謝謝委員貿易逆差是美方關切的議題但是除了貿易逆差以外他還有提出來"},{"start":143.939,"end":161.038,"text":"像非關稅的障礙等等也都是美方關切的一體所以我們政府是一體的從各個層面去運營我們相關的立場以上好 謝謝次長那台灣的糧食至給率事實上是逐年下降到31.7%"},{"start":163.487,"end":187.313,"text":"特別是核穀類的糧食的供給量還不能滿足需求所以我們的稻米玉米大豆這種糧食的產量是不足的我們有進口的糧食調節存量的長期需求可是又不能放任我們的糧商被就是破壞價格之後傷害到糧農的利益所以想問我們的江市長跟我們的杜市長要購買糧食要調節供需需要保護糧農"},{"start":191.574,"end":211.785,"text":"面對任何能夠提供核穀類糧食的國家都應該保持歡迎的態度可是最怕的是就是被強迫傾銷所以美國有強迫傾銷的意圖嗎那政府怎麼去因應這個問題謝謝委員關心因為其實糧食安全這件事情真的很重要特別是在台灣其實在美聯"},{"start":213.025,"end":234.615,"text":"我們不管是核穀類的也好還有其他就是其實我們跟各國不是只有跟美國其實對於台灣以農業來講一定是台灣優先那但是糧食安全確實是要注意所以所以在整個我們對於這個橫頻的過程當中第一個一定是保障我們自己的台灣但是第二個安全的存量確實是一定還是要所以我剛剛有問說"},{"start":236.676,"end":265.702,"text":"最怕的是我們的強迫傾銷你覺得美國有這個意圖嗎應該這樣講其實我們也不是現在啦我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實也是面臨一樣很大的挑戰那但是我想為了台灣農業我們這樣的立場絕對還是要守住好那我續問我覺得在不傷害本國稻米價格的前提下台灣每季還可以增加多少的稻米的進口量這個數字農業部有沒有預先做估算能夠在這邊透露嗎"},{"start":267.954,"end":288.079,"text":"應該這樣說,我們這樣做不是怕那個糧其實對農民最大的幫助是確保他的收購價格、收入糧是一回事,糧有時候不是說要多少多少有時候氣候的變化真的不太能夠如我們所預期的有那麼多收穫但是確保農民的收入的價格,收購價格其實是重要的所以不是說我們要進口多少,還是說我們可以準備多少"},{"start":290.6,"end":306.426,"text":"而是說我們是雙重的標準在說第一個是確保農民收入一定要保障第二個我們的糧食存糧這塊也一定會守護所以我們當初在加入WTO的時候其實真的是那時候真的是很困難那我想我們經過那樣子的經歷之後怎麼守住台灣我們這塊其實我們是"},{"start":308.027,"end":316.632,"text":"有很堅定的立場在做我們再來看豬肉這一塊台灣2023年豬肉產值大於850億的新台幣國人平均消費量大概是36公斤 自給率大概88.5%2024年進口的豬肉內臟食品總值大概10萬公噸所以是出口的40倍那美國進口"},{"start":335.822,"end":355.035,"text":"8041公噸 佔總數的7.85%台灣豬肉沒有對美國出口所以想問一下2023年我們的豬瘟拔針今年有望為三大豬病非疫區的國家可是台灣的豬肉的出口卻相當疲弱那這是什麼原因"},{"start":357.891,"end":371.127,"text":"其實我們對疾病的控制不是只當作要做出口的唯一的目的第一個是我們的養豬產業能夠把成本降低能夠永續這是我們不管是做疾病清除也好"},{"start":371.627,"end":395.828,"text":"不管是做產業提升也好這是我們最大的目的那第二個台灣其實整個養豬的成本老實講確實是有點高有點高所以我們的出口市場其實是鎖定是高端市場那我們的養豬產業確實是也真的是很爭氣不只把口蹄清除把非洲豬人守住現在豬人也拔針也要被認可所以我覺得我們當然是有競爭力但是不是為了出口而出口"},{"start":396.943,"end":425.539,"text":"那關於台灣豬肉透過內銷跟出口來調節市場供需量的問題政府有沒有什麼策略應該是這樣講對我們來講其實台灣這個養豬產業確實要守住所以怎麼降低成本怎麼讓它永續經營這是第一件我們的養豬產業其實也體認到市場不是為了提供豬肉其實是有社會責任這是一個文化的那你2025年政府對於豬肉出口有沒有什麼計畫甚至台灣豬肉出口量你預估可以達到多少的成長率"},{"start":426.179,"end":442.319,"text":"這其實要看我們整個產業的支持我們不是為了出口而出口而是當作第一個是產銷調節的一個方式第二個我們針對不同市場特別是一些高端市場我們去鎖定讓我們的養豬農民出口是有利潤的不是只為了出口而出口這樣好"},{"start":443.18,"end":460.61,"text":"那一樣的再來談牛肉就是說我們台灣的牛肉需要大量仰賴進口所以因此牛肉進口不是政治問題而是供需的問題所以至於進口的條件就是法律問題食品安全衛生管理"},{"start":461.531,"end":482.889,"text":"就规定十年内发生狂牛症的国家获得是地区所产牛脂的头骨脑眼睛脊髓角肉内脏都不得输入所以一样问我们的杜次长现今美国是不是已经脱离了狂牛症的疫情到十年之久合乎我们六大禁止项目进口的条件"},{"start":485.456,"end":512.839,"text":"應該這樣說其實在世界動物衛生組織對於牛海綿狀腦病就是我們所俗稱的狂牛病其實它的認定方式已經不是以有沒有發生病例來看而是看它的風險那目前是有三個等級一個是風險可忽略一個是風險已控制那另外就是風險未知那對美國現在在世界動物衛生組織被認可是風險可忽略所以事實上它現在可以到它被認定的風險是風險可忽略"},{"start":516.207,"end":529.776,"text":"嚴代表想問一下如果美國尚未達到食品安全管理法規定的條件台灣便是很難滿足美國全面開放的要求面對貿易跟法律的兩難政府的態度是什麼"},{"start":531.181,"end":548.102,"text":"首先要說明的就是剛剛有提到美國現在被世界動物衛生組織所認定它在這個狂流症上面是風險可忽略區那這個風險可忽略區就這個世界衛生組織它的認定實際上是它的所有的部位"},{"start":548.843,"end":564.814,"text":"全流林都是安全可食用的這是我們從國際組織所得到的訊息但是這個符不符合我們國人的食用習慣以及國人對這個概念的這個接受的程度我覺得這是由我們的衛福跟農政的主管機關接下來再去做"},{"start":565.314,"end":580.151,"text":"進一步的專業上面的判斷跟評估那我想我們OTN就是經貿辦就是提供我們的農政跟衛福主管機關最這個堅強的後盾來然後確保我們國人的健康之下來做我們談判的立場"},{"start":581.721,"end":600.958,"text":"台灣有一套合格的農產品肉品的標示系統那建制這套系統的目的不是為了排斥美國的肉品是為了保障台灣消費者的知情權所以台灣豬農並不擔心任何國家進口肉品的競爭反而更在意的是進口肉品有沒有混雜"},{"start":602.279,"end":621.999,"text":"混充在臺灣豬肉流入市場這個事實上是長期比較關心的因此弱食食品標章事實上是消費者跟豬農的共同期待那消息會去年中旬的也有調查有6.5%的商品或店家沒有依規定標示並且肉品流向不明所以想問我們的嚴代表"},{"start":623.26,"end":633.212,"text":"臺灣農產品肉品標章行之有年是一項具有社會高度共識的制度面對美方認為標章會造成貿易障礙的誤解政府現在應對的態度是什麼"},{"start":636.83,"end":656.824,"text":"針對標章這個問題這樣更具體而言我想就是他有表示是原產地的標示以及國內標章的問題原產地的標示這是各國都有這個權利去要求還要確保他的進口來源因為他還有關稅上面的適用問題所以標示原產地這個是各國都該都擁有的權利"},{"start":657.901,"end":676.461,"text":"第二個呢針對說國內的這些食品標章的這件事情我想對台灣來說我們只要確保它是一體適用的一個做法那讓消費者有知的權利可以做在購買的時候做適當的選擇這個都是WTO國際規範上面容許各國可以做的事情"},{"start":676.749,"end":702.274,"text":"好 農業部這邊想問說 民間有政府提供系統供民眾查詢熱品流向的訴求就是不管經營部 農業部 大家的看法是什麼我想提供讓我們的消費者有能夠查詢 有知道來源的這個基本的資訊 我想應該是全民都希望的 包括我自己也是消費者好 經營部這邊"},{"start":705.376,"end":732.551,"text":"報告委員就如同前面一位杜次長說我們都是消費者所以我們都應該有吃的權利所以我覺得台美經貿要穩健發展所以我們希望農產品跟肉品有關國家應該適度保護可是台灣豬肉不怕競爭要爭取外銷所以希望農業部要加油那台灣牛肉進口的品項不是政治議題要符合法還是要符合法規食品標章我們還是希望能夠落實以上謝謝"},{"start":735.189,"end":736.22,"text":"謝謝林委員 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":786,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（12時3分）謝謝主席，請行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表顏慧欣，還有經濟部的政務次長江文若，還有農業部的常務次長杜文珍。"],["主席：江次長，還有農業部的次長，經濟部今天都沒人叫。"],["林委員月琴：三位好，2025年3月31日美國公布「2025對外貿易障礙評估報告」指控臺灣對豬肉、牛肉、馬鈴薯、稻米跟基改食品設定貿易障礙，並可能以此為對臺「關稅懲罰」的理由，但是自數據上得知，臺灣對美國農產品進出口量為相差20倍的貿易逆差，我們不但沒有占美國便宜，還可能受到傾銷。請問顏代表和江次長，糧食自給率攸關國內的安全，各國對此有貿易限制，美國、臺灣都有，對於這次美國的指控，兩位的看法是什麼？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員，我先說明一下談判代表辦公室的立場，基本上我們當然會去考量這個議題是多面向的議題，除了要去跟美國談關稅的問題以外，實際上我們也知道這些產業、農產，還要考量到國人健康跟消費習慣為基本的前提。同時我們也要去思考這些國際標準，做一些衡平的思考，基本上我們會綜合這些因素，然後尊重我們的農業跟經濟的主政單位，做一個通盤立場的確認。"],["林委員月琴：謝謝代表，江次長這邊呢？"],["江次長文若：謝謝委員，貿易逆差是美方關切的議題，但是除了貿易逆差以外，美方還有提出非關稅障礙等等，也都是美方關切的議題，所以我們政府是一體的，從各個層面去運營我們相關的立場。"],["林委員月琴：謝謝次長，臺灣的糧食自給率事實上是逐年下降，來到31.7%，特別是禾穀類的糧食供給量，還不能滿足需求。我們的稻米、玉米、大豆這種糧食產量是不足的，所以我們有進口糧食以調節存量的長期需求，可是又不能放任我們的糧商被破壞價格之後，傷害到糧農的利益。請教江次長跟杜次長，要購買糧食、要調節供需，需要保護糧農，面對任何能夠提供禾穀類糧食的國家，我們都應該保持歡迎的態度，可是最怕的就是被強迫傾銷。所以美國有強迫傾銷的意圖嗎？政府怎麼去因應這個問題？"],["杜次長文珍：謝謝委員關心，其實糧食安全這件事真的很重要，特別是在臺灣，其實每年不管是禾穀類的也好，我們跟各國，不是只有跟美國，以農業來講一定是臺灣優先。但是糧食安全確實是要注意，所以我們對於這個衡平的過程，第一，一定是先保障臺灣，第二，安全的存量確實是一定要存在。"],["林委員月琴：所以我剛剛有說，最怕的是被強迫傾銷，你覺得美國有這個意圖嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：其實也不是現在，我們當初在加入WTO的時候，也是一樣面臨很大的挑戰，但我想為了臺灣農業，我們這樣的立場絕對還是要守住。"],["林委員月琴：那我續問，在不傷害本國稻米價格的前提下，臺灣每季還可以增加多少的稻米進口量？這個數字農業部有沒有預先做估算？能夠在這邊透露嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：應該這樣講，我們在做的不是抓那個量，其實對農民最大的幫助是確保他的收購價格、收入。量是一回事，量通常不是說多少就有多少，有時候氣候的變化真的不太能夠如我們所預期的有那麼多收穫。但是確保農民收入的價格、收購價格其實是重要的，不是說我們要進口多少，或是我們可以準備多少，我們是雙重的標準在做。第一、確保農民收入一定要有保障，第二、我們的糧食存量這塊也一定會守護。所以我們當初在加入WTO的時候，其實那時候真的是很困難，我想我們有當初的經歷之後，怎麼守住臺灣，其實我們是有很堅定的立場。"],["林委員月琴：再來看豬肉這一塊，臺灣2023年的豬肉產值大約850億新台幣，國人平均消費量大概是36公斤，自給率大概88.5%。2024年進口的豬肉、內臟、食品總值大概10萬公噸，所以是出口的40倍。美國進口8,041公噸，占總數的7.85%，臺灣豬肉沒有對美國出口。請問，2023年我們的豬瘟拔針，今年有望成為「三大豬病非疫區」的國家，可是臺灣的豬肉出口卻相當疲弱，這是什麼原因？"],["杜次長文珍：其實我們對疾病的控制，不是只單做要出口的唯一目的，第一、我們的養豬產業能夠把成本降低，能夠永續，不管是做疾病清除、產業提升也好，這是我們最大的目的。第二、臺灣其實整個養豬的成本，老實講確實是有點高，所以我們的出口市場其實是鎖定高端市場。而我們的養豬產業也真的是很爭氣，不只把口蹄疫清除，把非洲豬瘟守住，現在豬瘟也拔針要被認可。所以我覺得我們當然是有競爭力，但不是為了出口而出口。"],["林委員月琴：關於臺灣豬肉透過內銷跟出口來調節市場供需量的問題，政府有沒有什麼策略？"],["杜次長文珍：對我們來講，其實臺灣養豬產業確實要守住，所以怎麼降低成本，怎麼讓它永續經營，這是第一件。我們的養豬產業其實也體認到，養豬不是為了提供豬肉，其實是有社會責任，這是一個文化的保存。"],["林委員月琴：那2025年政府對於豬肉出口有沒有什麼計畫？甚至臺灣豬肉出口量，你預估可以達到多少的成長率？"],["杜次長文珍：這其實要看我們整個產業的支持，我們不是為了出口而出口。首先是將其作為一個產銷調節的方式，其次我們針對不同市場，特別是一些高端市場，我們去鎖定，讓我們的養豬農出口是有利潤的，不是為了出口而出口。"],["林委員月琴：再來談牛肉，我們臺灣的牛肉需要大量仰賴進口，因此牛肉進口不是政治問題，而是供需的問題，至於進口的條件就是法律問題。食品安全衛生管理法就有規定，十年內發生狂牛症的國家或地區，所產牛隻的頭骨、腦、眼睛、脊髓、絞肉、內臟都不得輸入。請問杜次長，現今美國是否已經脫離狂牛症的疫情達十年之久，合乎六大禁止項目進口的條件？"],["杜次長文珍：世界動物衛生組織對於牛海綿狀腦病，就是我們俗稱的狂牛病，其實它的認定方式已經不是以有沒有發生病例來看，而是看它的風險。目前是有三個等級，一個是風險可忽略，一個是風險已控制，另外就是風險未知，美國現在在世界動物衛生組織被認可是風險可忽略。"],["林委員月琴：所以事實上它現在可以到？"],["杜次長文珍：它被認定的風險是風險可忽略。"],["林委員月琴：想問一下顏代表，若美國尚未能達到食品安全衛生管理法規定的條件，臺灣便很難滿足美國全面開放的要求，面對貿易跟法律的兩難，政府的態度是什麼？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：首先要說明的是，剛剛有提到美國現在被國際世界動物衛生組織認定，其狂牛症部分是風險可忽略區。風險可忽略區就世界衛生組織的認定，實際上是所有的部位、全牛齡都安全可食用，這是我們從國際組織得到的訊息。但是這符不符合我們國人的食用習慣，以及國人對這個概念的接受程度，我覺得這是由我們衛福跟農政的主管機關，接下來再去做進一步專業上的判斷跟評估。我們OTN經貿辦就是提供我們的農政跟衛福主管機關最堅強的後盾，在確保國人的健康之下，來做為我們談判的立場。"],["林委員月琴：臺灣有一套合格的農產品肉品的標示系統，建置這套系統的目的，不是為了排斥美國的肉品，是為了保障臺灣消費者的知情權。所以臺灣豬農並不擔心任何國家進口肉品的競爭，反而更在意進口肉品有沒有混雜、混充臺灣豬肉流入市場，這事實上是豬農長期比較關心的，因此，落實食品標章，是消費者跟豬農的共同期待。消基會去年中旬也有調查，有6.5%的商品或店家，沒有依規定標示，並且肉品流向不明。請問顏代表，臺灣農產品、肉品標章行之有年，是一項具有社會高度共識的制度，面對美方認為標章會造成貿易障礙的誤解，政府現在應對的態度是什麼？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：針對標章的問題，具體而言我想就是他有表示是原產地的標示，以及國內標章的問題。原產地的標示是各國都有權利去要求，要確保他的進口來源，因為他還有關稅上的適用問題，所以標示原產地是各國都該擁有的權利。第二、針對國內的食品標章，我想對臺灣來說，我們只要確保它是一體適用的做法，讓消費者有知的權利，可以在購買的時候做適當的選擇，這個都是WTO國際規範上面容許各國可以做的事情。"],["林委員月琴：好。對農業部，我想問說，民間有政府提供系統供民眾查詢肉品流向的訴求，不管是經濟部、農業部，大家的看法是什麼？"],["杜次長文珍：提供讓我們的消費者能夠查詢以知道來源的基本資訊，應該是全民都希望的，包括我自己也是消費者。"],["林委員月琴：好，請經濟部。"],["江次長文若：報告委員，就如同杜次長說的，我們都是消費者，所以我們都應該有知的權利。"],["林委員月琴：我覺得臺美經貿要穩健發展，農產品跟肉品攸關國家，應該要適度保護，可是臺灣豬肉不怕競爭，要爭取外銷，所以希望農業部要加油。","那臺灣牛肉進口的品項不是政治議題，還是要符合法規，食品標章我們還是希望能夠落實。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：好。謝謝林委員，謝謝部長。","請劉建國委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","楊曜","王正旭","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","劉建國","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","高金素梅","王鴻薇","許宇甄","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","廖偉翔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判\n代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民\n權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00005"}}}