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0.667}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 43.041, \"end\": 43.202, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 43.202, \"end\": 43.222, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 43.222, \"end\": 43.282, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 43.282, \"end\": 43.382, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 43.382, \"end\": 43.402, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 43.402, \"end\": 43.422, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 48.507, \"end\": 68.632, \"text\": \"然後你知道國防生技在講什麼嗎老鼠釋放在研發區研發區與生產區有明確的區隔不屬於藥品優良製作作業範圍GMP的規範的範圍內因此不會影響到藥品品質請署長回應我兩個問題第一個查到什麼第二個國防生技這樣回應對嗎好 謝謝 謝謝委員我請署長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 48.507, \"end\": 48.527, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 48.527, \"end\": 48.727, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 48.727, \"end\": 48.847, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 53.188, \"end\": 53.748, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 53.748, \"end\": 54.108, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 54.108, \"end\": 54.208, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 54.208, \"end\": 54.608, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 54.608, \"end\": 55.129, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"隔\", \"start\": 55.129, \"end\": 55.789, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 55.789, \"end\": 56.129, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 56.129, \"end\": 56.329, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 56.329, \"end\": 56.749, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"良\", \"start\": 56.749, \"end\": 57.289, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"製\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 57.289, \"end\": 57.549, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 57.549, \"end\": 57.729, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"圍\"}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 57.729, \"end\": 57.929, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 57.929, \"end\": 58.469, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 58.469, \"end\": 58.649, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 58.649, \"end\": 59.91, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 59.91, \"end\": 61.39, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"圍\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 61.39, \"end\": 61.73, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 61.73, \"end\": 61.93, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 61.93, \"end\": 62.25, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 62.25, \"end\": 62.79, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"響\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 62.79, \"end\": 63.21, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 63.21, \"end\": 63.39, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 63.39, \"end\": 64.611, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 64.611, \"end\": 64.991, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 64.991, \"end\": 65.271, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 65.271, \"end\": 65.951, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 65.951, \"end\": 66.051, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 66.051, \"end\": 66.351, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 66.351, \"end\": 66.491, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 66.491, \"end\": 66.591, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 66.591, \"end\": 66.911, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 66.911, \"end\": 67.051, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 67.051, \"end\": 67.951, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 67.951, \"end\": 68.071, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 68.071, \"end\": 68.212, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 68.212, \"end\": 68.352, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 68.352, \"end\": 68.452, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 68.452, \"end\": 68.472, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 68.472, \"end\": 68.492, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 68.492, \"end\": 68.612, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 68.612, \"end\": 68.632, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}]}, {\"start\": 76.064, \"end\": 92.595, \"text\": \"謝謝委員非常精準的提問有關於國光生技的部分呢第一個是我們昨天七點知道的消息幾點昨天早上七點的時候立刻就在昨天就派人去國光生技做查核馬上我們就出發了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 76.064, \"end\": 76.184, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 76.184, \"end\": 76.764, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 76.764, \"end\": 76.944, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 76.944, \"end\": 77.124, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 77.124, \"end\": 77.245, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 77.245, \"end\": 77.385, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 77.385, \"end\": 77.725, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 77.725, \"end\": 78.085, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 78.085, \"end\": 78.766, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 78.766, \"end\": 78.986, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 78.986, \"end\": 79.186, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 79.186, \"end\": 79.306, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 79.306, \"end\": 79.446, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 79.446, \"end\": 79.626, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 79.626, \"end\": 79.766, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 79.766, \"end\": 80.447, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 80.447, \"end\": 80.527, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 80.527, \"end\": 80.767, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 80.767, \"end\": 80.967, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 80.967, \"end\": 81.508, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"昨\", \"start\": 81.508, \"end\": 81.648, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 81.648, \"end\": 82.148, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 82.148, \"end\": 82.508, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 82.508, \"end\": 82.588, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 82.588, \"end\": 82.828, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 82.828, \"end\": 83.469, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 83.469, \"end\": 83.709, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 83.709, \"end\": 85.19, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"昨\", \"start\": 85.19, \"end\": 85.31, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 85.31, \"end\": 85.791, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 85.791, \"end\": 85.931, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 85.931, \"end\": 86.091, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 86.091, \"end\": 86.391, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 86.391, \"end\": 86.651, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 86.651, \"end\": 87.011, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 87.011, \"end\": 87.192, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"刻\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 461.448, \"end\": 461.568, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 461.568, \"end\": 461.948, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 461.948, \"end\": 462.248, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"培\", \"start\": 462.248, \"end\": 462.589, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"養\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 462.589, \"end\": 462.689, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 462.689, \"end\": 462.709, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 462.709, \"end\": 462.729, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 464.07, \"end\": 469.824, \"text\": \"這樣的GMP廠可以云東風情說因為他醫療的區域不一樣請大家放心可以這樣嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 464.07, \"end\": 464.19, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 464.19, \"end\": 464.391, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 464.391, \"end\": 464.531, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 464.531, \"end\": 464.792, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 464.792, \"end\": 464.892, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 464.892, \"end\": 464.932, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"云\", \"start\": 464.932, \"end\": 465.413, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 465.413, \"end\": 465.814, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 465.814, \"end\": 466.536, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 466.536, \"end\": 467.338, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"療\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 467.338, \"end\": 467.779, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 467.779, \"end\": 467.899, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 467.899, \"end\": 468.02, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 468.02, \"end\": 468.501, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 468.501, \"end\": 468.621, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 468.621, \"end\": 468.742, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 468.742, \"end\": 468.902, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 468.902, \"end\": 469.704, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 469.704, \"end\": 469.804, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 469.804, \"end\": 469.824, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 471.823, \"end\": 496.989, \"text\": \"我們這一次要重申其實食藥署對於國內藥廠的GMP是已經建立了我們國際的規格只有這樣子嚴謹的國際規格才能夠讓我們的產品可以到全世界都能夠走得通所以我們對於這件事件我們非常嚴謹的去做採取雖然說我們看到它是獨立管理的品質是無虞的但是我們還是提出了嚴重的缺失以上說明\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 471.823, \"end\": 472.263, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 472.263, \"end\": 472.423, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 472.423, \"end\": 472.683, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 919.86, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 919.86, \"end\": 919.88, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,110 --> 00:00:23,897\n來,謝謝召委一行部長。劉少偉好。部長好,部長辛苦了。部長,昨天消防署查國防生計有查出什麼嗎?\n\n2\n00:00:27,915 --> 00:00:43,422\n這個畢竟是去年七月份的事情嘛,如果現在還能夠讓你們抄出什麼東西,那就是真的FDA加FBI現在回過頭來,為什麼去年七月發生的事情,國光生技場內發生這麼嚴重的問題,不用進行通報?\n\n3\n00:00:48,507 --> 00:01:08,632\n然後你知道國防生技在講什麼嗎老鼠釋放在研發區研發區與生產區有明確的區隔不屬於藥品優良製作作業範圍GMP的規範的範圍內因此不會影響到藥品品質請署長回應我兩個問題第一個查到什麼第二個國防生技這樣回應對嗎好謝謝謝謝委員我請署長\n\n4\n00:01:16,064 --> 00:01:32,595\n謝謝委員非常精準的提問有關於國光生技的部分呢第一個是我們昨天七點知道的消息幾點昨天早上七點的時候立刻就在昨天就派人去國光生技做查核馬上我們就出發了\n\n5\n00:01:33,596 --> 00:01:59,296\n那對於為什麼在國光沒有立即去通報這件事情因為在GMP沒有涉及產品那國光他們是這麼樣子的解釋但是我們認為一樣GMP沒有涉及產品對他沒有涉及產品的部分所以他就說是沒有通報可是我們去的時候我們不是這樣子認為的因此我們有開出缺失這邊特別跟委員做進一步報告\n\n6\n00:02:00,357 --> 00:02:28,907\n對所以針對國光生技講的這句話他不在他這個事發地點不在GMP的規範裡面正確嗎我們其實我們就直接開出了缺失了跟委員做進入報告你要回應我啊對已經我們有開出了他的缺失他這樣子是不符合的是不符合嘛所以國光生技是到現在還在騙還是怎樣為什麼講出這樣的話我想這個藥廠裡面難道不包含他所謂的實驗區不包含他的實驗室不包含他的研發區嗎\n\n7\n00:02:30,646 --> 00:02:54,876\n我想他們的認定上面呢跟我們去查查的過程當中呢其實是有出入的我們認為我們他必須要包含的相關的查案雖然說他這個在二樓的研發的獨立區域跟我們的上市產品的實驗區在B1跟一樓呢是分開來的是實體上面是區隔的所以對於所有的產品是沒有有風險的\n\n8\n00:02:56,457 --> 00:03:13,843\n不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一�\n\n9\n00:03:25,103 --> 00:03:53,961\n吹哨者的報紙是說去年的7月台風馬台中市24、25就已經停班停課也因此國防升級的員工就便於形勢直接把實驗室放在實驗室中兩天重新上班之後發現老鼠屎尿滲出瘤痰滿桌事後又拖了三天才一種也就是說這些老鼠在實驗室待了五天不僅如此連莊白老鼠的紙箱被屎尿濺濕這種應該立即丟棄的東西竟然還堆在實驗室好多天\n\n10\n00:03:54,827 --> 00:04:09,125\n部長跟署長可以看拖影片那這個實驗室裡面有檢測核酸與DNA濃度的精密儀器製冰器和溫水槽加上有鹽酸、硫酸、紅毛磷就連研發人員的實驗跑也通通暴露在污染中對不對\n\n11\n00:04:10,627 --> 00:04:32,462\n報告委員第一個部分呢有關於這個實驗室的部分其實在26號正式上班就已經移走了這部分說進一步說明那整個實驗室在去年113年的8月6號呢也遷移到南投那本市查查呢也確認了這個空間呢這種8月6號的時候我們就不要再談嘛好不好我們就談這個事發的當時的時間才準確嘛你連事後的傾銷到底有沒有落實\n\n12\n00:04:38,826 --> 00:05:03,865\n其實也沒有知道嘛也不知道有進一步的有清消這個紀錄上面你沒有指出這是他缺失之一嗎對啊研發部門環境消毒紀錄也不完整啊報告外務員他們有做清消只是我們覺得他的紀錄不夠完整記錄不夠完整嘛所以還是提出了一些糾正另外這個介紹者說二樓實驗室二樓廁所是瀰漫到整個樓梯間喔而樓下一樓就是品管的檢驗區\n\n13\n00:05:05,146 --> 00:05:32,667\n那另外雖然評管檢驗區是獨立的空調空間啦齁但除此之外這整棟大樓空調系統也是相通這些鼠毛衣會在大樓流竄所有工作人員在這個工作環境下在工作所以即便評管區有區隔這樣的環境你們會不會要幫國光掛保證我們沒有掛保證因為跟委員這邊報告因為整個的空調系統是獨立的啦\n\n14\n00:05:33,067 --> 00:05:58,524\n那我們回風的時候其實它轉生的所謂的過濾跟阻隔跟傾銷的部分呢其實它的整個空調系統裡面有進一步的做阻隔沒有署長我時間有限我當然是希望讓你答覆的清楚不過可能要就陳瑋瑜所講的大家要抓的精準因為他之前已經講說沒有違反GMP了我就覺得非常的離譜到極點了這是第一點第二點\n\n15\n00:05:59,775 --> 00:06:16,178\n他絕對不是只有這個環境而已不是只有這個研發實驗室你看喔除了生產區、微弱石、無菌跟這個監控外實驗室也沒有做管理紀錄就這樣被...欸對不起他在這個...他在這個...對不起我用一個隱喻啦就是五字要這個部分啦\n\n16\n00:06:29,893 --> 00:06:51,372\n5G二部分去年才發生的事情它有針對這事項的缺失你們就把它列為嚴重違反GMP的藥廠對不對那你們怎麼處理跟委員這邊報告因為這個跟產品之間是有關係的所以直接會對品質有影響所以它列的層級就自然所以國防生技你的意思是要跟我表達就是說跟產品沒有關係\n\n17\n00:06:52,472 --> 00:07:14,959\n你要直接這麼講目前我們去查查之後因為廠內的製造疫苗的產品跟生產跟檢驗都沒有在這次涉案的範圍的區域執行因此我們判斷是沒有對疫苗的品質跟安全有差異的但是我們一致還是要去強調是我們是對國際一致性的PIXGMP的規範\n\n18\n00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:42,729\n對藥廠進行定期跟不定期的一些查查希望我們能夠嚴格的把關製藥業的一些製造的品質組長你們對五福是這麼處理的剛剛我講的那一段是針對五福除了生產區會落實無菌跟健康外實驗室也沒有做管理的紀錄你們這樣就把它打為嚴重違反GMP那現在是直接實驗室裡面有違規養老鼠甚至於死尿紙箱都不丟然後存放在那邊要培養什麼樣的東西\n\n19\n00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:49,824\n這樣的GMP廠可以云東風情說因為他醫療的區域不一樣請大家放心可以這樣嗎\n\n20\n00:07:51,823 --> 00:08:16,989\n我們這一次要重申其實食藥署對於國內藥廠的GMP是已經建立了我們國際的規格只有這樣子嚴謹的國際規格才能夠讓我們的產品可以到全世界都能夠走得通所以我們對於這件事件我們非常嚴謹的去做採取雖然說我們看到它是獨立管理的品質是無虞的但是我們還是提出了嚴重的缺失以上說明\n\n21\n00:08:20,067 --> 00:08:41,074\n一定會的不然我們前兩天上禮拜才講說人家那個世界的那個極大的藥廠投資是在新加坡怎麼反而不選擇到台灣來如果這個事情處理得不好真的會一笑大方也會折損我們整個在執行這個GMP過程裡面對我們的信心會大打折扣\n\n22\n00:08:42,045 --> 00:08:47,669\n好不好可以吧可以的我們一定積極的採取好謝謝對不起稍微再給我一點點時間我請經濟部的次長\n\n23\n00:08:51,978 --> 00:09:20,344\n市長一邊走一邊聽美國貿易代表在3月31公布2025對外貿易障礙評估中其中點名台灣豬牛馬燈設有貿易障礙等於是我們在歧視這個台灣標示美豬美牛是這樣的一個歧視的行為但事實上台灣的肉品都有標示產地不論美國就連澳洲就連日本甚至以台灣本土都會標示出來甚至以被川普講的加拿大比較稱為他的\n\n24\n00:09:21,464 --> 00:09:36,500\n一周我們都要標示出來嘛哪來的歧視哪來的不平等哪來的沒有公平你們簡單回應一下是我們的現在的相關的標示呢都是一體適用的所以未來呢我們在\n\n25\n00:09:37,749 --> 00:09:57,576\n我們未來的談判團隊一定會去跟這個美方去說明清楚這個部分呢是在台灣在台灣的話是一體施用對所以我是要特別強調說如果是這個樣子美方就講說實際上在歧視那相對其他這麼多國家都是一樣在台灣一視同仁的標示出來\n\n26\n00:09:58,618 --> 00:10:07,703\n那來來有歧視的問題不可能嘛對不對那你今天你美國牛肉豬肉輸入到台灣輸給加拿大輸入到台灣的整個數量那是他們自己要去做檢討修正反而不能來講說是我們設下貿易障礙讓他們的銷售量低於其他進口的國家的銷售量\n\n27\n00:10:18,789 --> 00:10:46,387\n我想這個談判裡面應該你們應該是可以來拒以力爭看責任的緩和來把這事情講清楚所以台灣的農業絕對不能成為這次美國貿易關稅談判桌的籌碼市長可以做到嗎剩下不到90天整個談判團隊在政府院長的領軍之下我們一定盡我們最大的能力農業是一個非常敏感的在那個產業那台灣是以農立國台灣以農為本\n\n28\n00:10:47,788 --> 00:11:04,338\n那絕對不能在這次關稅談判中然後讓我們台灣農業去受到任何的傷害跟折損好不好可以啦謝謝那第二件事情是這樣這個關稅不僅全球起商人連各行各業都受到不同程度的衝擊有一個職業逆風上漲市長有掌握嗎有一個產業的人才的人力他是逆風上漲就是有這個\n\n29\n00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:41,221\n七成八的民眾優關稅占影響工作但是這個AI職缺卻飆升到11%市長你知道這個事情嗎美國川普也宣布要赤字五千億美元打造這個STARTGATE然後的AI超級企劃也要讓美國走在全球的AI領先的地位嘛中國研發Deposit可獲得AI人工智能其實這個人工智能戰爭已經熱戰中了各國都投入在這個AI領域嘛\n\n30\n00:11:42,182 --> 00:11:54,400\n連工業總會在因應這次關稅中提出六大建言其中有一個就是強化AI人才培育那我請教次長台南何時能有原產的國產的原生AI誕生\n\n31\n00:11:56,441 --> 00:12:16,094\n報告委員AI也是這個艾總統所說的五大信賴產業之一所以我們現在相關的部會尤其是在經濟部積極的在培育AI的相關的人才到目前為止我們從賴政府上台之後到目前我們已經培育了6萬人次所以我們的目標是在4年之內要培育20萬人到現在已經有6萬人\n\n32\n00:12:22,838 --> 00:12:51,390\n打標所以經濟部的相關的部會都在進行人才培育工作那實際上其他的部會包括速發部等等也都在進行相關的工作你們有培育到6萬的人次的?有你確定?是我們看一個資料就好了差不多請你簡單再導我就好了你看這個排名我們是21嘛全球AI這個指數嘛對不對然後郭部長還特別提到說今年年底要超越香港\n\n33\n00:12:52,310 --> 00:13:19,507\n是不是然後看明年能不能再超越第六名的藍函嘛齁那你們有一個從去年開始政府就喊出2加4的人才培育方案每年要培育2.5萬的海外生嘛對不對然後國內是2.5萬嘛四年要培育20萬的AI相關人才你講的是這個啊對現在已經有達到6萬的6萬人次去年才開始呢對但是因為呢我們所謂的培育的話是包括我們經濟部所屬的所有的\n\n34\n00:13:20,597 --> 00:13:31,884\n這個掌管的產業別包括製造業以及你在最後看一張表格好不好你看這個全球AI的指標有七大指數有七大的指標台灣我們除了這個基礎建設有極盡滿分其他除了政府\n\n35\n00:13:36,631 --> 00:13:52,563\n策略、商業及人才、政策環境等等好像都不盡理想那我在去年6月12日總諮詢有特別建立說雲林科大這個退場之後有30公頃的校地12棟校舍空間可利用可以成為台灣首座\n\n36\n00:13:53,563 --> 00:14:19,597\n這個AI人才的培訓基地郭部長也有承諾那你們金光鼠也在8月5號今年的8月5號不是去年8月5號有提出環球課到退場的校地營運規劃那規劃有三大主軸第一個是AI國際經貿暨雙軸轉型人才培育創新研發暨AI新創育成支持輔導其他就幼齡壯齡在滴熱火了那如今這個全球的AI戰已經如虎如同在展開\n\n37\n00:14:20,885 --> 00:14:33,455\n但是環球消停還限制在那個地方你們資金的產花所三大功能下落不明所以部長要宣誓要趕到14名明年要趕到第2名我覺得指日不可待\n\n38\n00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:52,101\n你怎麼笑出來報告委員我的剛剛的您所說的這個排名的檢討我們在部內確實有做檢討我們也希望能夠精進我們全這個全台灣的AI不只是人陪甚至包括相關的這個環境那\n\n39\n00:14:54,045 --> 00:15:19,880\n您所提示的這個環球科大的部分我回去再跟產發所再來我這邊這樣嘛你的另外人士等一下會後給我們委員會資料這第一個看你整個執行的狀態是怎麼樣那第二個我希望剛剛針對這個環球科大要來做整個轉移應用成為AI的這個培訓人才你們的時程是不是可以加快有相關的積極的這樣的報告給我們來做參考是好謝謝好謝謝莊委謝謝謝謝劉昭\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10110\t23897\t來,謝謝召委一行部長。劉少偉好。部長好,部長辛苦了。部長,昨天消防署查國防生計有查出什麼嗎?\n27915\t43422\t這個畢竟是去年七月份的事情嘛,如果現在還能夠讓你們抄出什麼東西,那就是真的FDA加FBI現在回過頭來,為什麼去年七月發生的事情,國光生技場內發生這麼嚴重的問題,不用進行通報?\n48507\t68632\t然後你知道國防生技在講什麼嗎老鼠釋放在研發區研發區與生產區有明確的區隔不屬於藥品優良製作作業範圍GMP的規範的範圍內因此不會影響到藥品品質請署長回應我兩個問題第一個查到什麼第二個國防生技這樣回應對嗎好 謝謝 謝謝委員我請署長\n76064\t92595\t謝謝委員非常精準的提問有關於國光生技的部分呢第一個是我們昨天七點知道的消息幾點昨天早上七點的時候立刻就在昨天就派人去國光生技做查核馬上我們就出發了\n93596\t119296\t那對於為什麼在國光沒有立即去通報這件事情因為在GMP沒有涉及產品那國光他們是這麼樣子的解釋但是我們認為一樣GMP沒有涉及產品對他沒有涉及產品的部分所以他就說是沒有通報可是我們去的時候我們不是這樣子認為的因此我們有開出缺失這邊特別跟委員做進一步報告\n120357\t148907\t對 所以針對國光生技講的這句話他不在他這個事發地點不在GMP的規範裡面正確嗎我們其實我們就直接開出了缺失了跟委員做進入報告你要回應我啊對 已經我們有開出了他的缺失他這樣子是不符合的是不符合嘛所以國光生技是到現在還在騙還是怎樣為什麼講出這樣的話我想這個藥廠裡面難道不包含他所謂的實驗區不包含他的實驗室不包含他的研發區嗎\n150646\t174876\t我想他們的認定上面呢跟我們去查查的過程當中呢其實是有出入的我們認為我們他必須要包含的相關的查案雖然說他這個在二樓的研發的獨立區域跟我們的上市產品的實驗區在B1跟一樓呢是分開來的是實體上面是區隔的所以對於所有的產品是沒有有風險的\n176457\t193843\t不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一�\n205103\t233961\t吹哨者的報紙是說 去年的7月台風馬台中市24、25就已經停班停課也因此國防升級的員工就便於形勢直接把實驗室放在實驗室中兩天重新上班之後發現老鼠屎尿滲出 瘤痰滿桌事後又拖了三天才一種也就是說這些老鼠在實驗室待了五天不僅如此 連莊白老鼠的紙箱被屎尿濺濕這種應該立即丟棄的東西竟然還堆在實驗室好多天\n234827\t249125\t部長跟署長可以看拖影片那這個實驗室裡面有檢測核酸與DNA濃度的精密儀器製冰器和溫水槽加上有鹽酸、硫酸、紅毛磷就連研發人員的實驗跑也通通暴露在污染中對不對\n250627\t272462\t報告委員第一個部分呢有關於這個實驗室的部分其實在26號正式上班就已經移走了這部分說進一步說明那整個實驗室在去年113年的8月6號呢也遷移到南投那本市查查呢也確認了這個空間呢這種8月6號的時候我們就不要再談嘛好不好我們就談這個事發的當時的時間才準確嘛你連事後的傾銷到底有沒有落實\n278826\t303865\t其實也沒有知道嘛 也不知道有進一步的有清消 這個紀錄上面你沒有指出這是他缺失之一嗎對啊 研發部門環境消毒 紀錄也不完整啊報告外務員 他們有做清消 只是我們覺得他的紀錄不夠完整記錄不夠完整嘛 所以還是提出了一些糾正另外這個介紹者說 二樓實驗室二樓廁所是瀰漫到整個樓梯間喔而樓下一樓就是品管的檢驗區\n305146\t332667\t那另外 雖然評管檢驗區是獨立的空調空間啦齁但除此之外 這整棟大樓空調系統也是相通這些鼠毛衣會在大樓流竄所有工作人員在這個工作環境下在工作所以即便評管區有區隔這樣的環境你們會不會要幫國光掛保證我們沒有掛保證 因為跟委員這邊報告因為整個的空調系統是獨立的啦\n333067\t358524\t那我們回風的時候其實它轉生的所謂的過濾跟阻隔跟傾銷的部分呢其實它的整個空調系統裡面有進一步的做阻隔沒有 署長我時間有限我當然是希望讓你答覆的清楚不過可能要就陳瑋瑜所講的大家要抓的精準因為他之前已經講說沒有違反GMP了我就覺得非常的離譜到極點了這是第一點 第二點\n359775\t376178\t他絕對不是只有這個環境而已不是只有這個研發實驗室你看喔除了生產區、微弱石、無菌跟這個監控外實驗室也沒有做管理紀錄就這樣被...欸對不起他在這個...他在這個...對不起我用一個隱喻啦就是五字要這個部分啦\n389893\t411372\t5G二部分去年才發生的事情它有針對這事項的缺失你們就把它列為嚴重違反GMP的藥廠對不對那你們怎麼處理跟委員這邊報告因為這個跟產品之間是有關係的所以直接會對品質有影響所以它列的層級就自然所以國防生技你的意思是要跟我表達就是說跟產品沒有關係\n412472\t434959\t你要直接這麼講目前我們去查查之後因為廠內的製造疫苗的產品跟生產跟檢驗都沒有在這次涉案的範圍的區域執行因此我們判斷是沒有對疫苗的品質跟安全有差異的但是我們一致還是要去強調是我們是對國際一致性的PIX GMP的規範\n437079\t462729\t對藥廠進行定期跟不定期的一些查查希望我們能夠嚴格的把關製藥業的一些製造的品質組長你們對五福是這麼處理的剛剛我講的那一段是針對五福除了生產區會落實無菌跟健康外實驗室也沒有做管理的紀錄你們這樣就把它打為嚴重違反GMP那現在是直接實驗室裡面有違規養老鼠甚至於死尿紙箱都不丟然後存放在那邊要培養什麼樣的東西\n464070\t469824\t這樣的GMP廠可以云東風情說因為他醫療的區域不一樣請大家放心可以這樣嗎\n471823\t496989\t我們這一次要重申其實食藥署對於國內藥廠的GMP是已經建立了我們國際的規格只有這樣子嚴謹的國際規格才能夠讓我們的產品可以到全世界都能夠走得通所以我們對於這件事件我們非常嚴謹的去做採取雖然說我們看到它是獨立管理的品質是無虞的但是我們還是提出了嚴重的缺失以上說明\n500067\t521074\t一定會的不然我們前兩天上禮拜才講說人家那個世界的那個極大的藥廠投資是在新加坡怎麼反而不選擇到台灣來如果這個事情處理得不好真的會一笑大方也會折損我們整個在執行這個GMP過程裡面對我們的信心會大打折扣\n522045\t527669\t好不好 可以吧可以的 我們一定積極的採取好 謝謝對不起 稍微再給我一點點時間我請經濟部的次長\n531978\t560344\t市長一邊走一邊聽美國貿易代表在3月31公布2025對外貿易障礙評估中其中點名台灣豬牛馬燈設有貿易障礙等於是我們在歧視這個台灣標示美豬美牛是這樣的一個歧視的行為但事實上台灣的肉品都有標示產地不論美國就連澳洲就連日本甚至以台灣本土都會標示出來甚至以被川普講的加拿大比較稱為他的\n561464\t576500\t一周我們都要標示出來嘛哪來的歧視哪來的不平等哪來的沒有公平你們簡單回應一下是我們的現在的相關的標示呢都是一體適用的所以未來呢我們在\n577749\t597576\t我們未來的談判團隊一定會去跟這個美方去說明清楚這個部分呢是在台灣在台灣的話是一體施用對所以我是要特別強調說如果是這個樣子美方就講說實際上在歧視那相對其他這麼多國家都是一樣在台灣一視同仁的標示出來\n598618\t607703\t那來來有歧視的問題不可能嘛對不對那你今天你美國牛肉豬肉輸入到台灣輸給加拿大輸入到台灣的整個數量那是他們自己要去做檢討修正反而不能來講說是我們設下貿易障礙讓他們的銷售量低於其他進口的國家的銷售量\n618789\t646387\t我想這個談判裡面應該你們應該是可以來拒以力爭看責任的緩和來把這事情講清楚所以台灣的農業絕對不能成為這次美國貿易關稅談判桌的籌碼市長可以做到嗎剩下不到90天整個談判團隊在政府院長的領軍之下我們一定盡我們最大的能力農業是一個非常敏感的在那個產業那台灣是以農立國台灣以農為本\n647788\t664338\t那絕對不能在這次關稅談判中然後讓我們台灣農業去受到任何的傷害跟折損好不好可以啦 謝謝那第二件事情是這樣這個關稅不僅全球起商人連各行各業都受到不同程度的衝擊有一個職業逆風上漲市長有掌握嗎有一個產業的人才的人力他是逆風上漲就是有這個\n672310\t701221\t七成八的民眾優關稅占影響工作但是這個AI職缺卻飆升到11%市長你知道這個事情嗎美國川普也宣布要赤字五千億美元打造這個STARTGATE然後的AI超級企劃也要讓美國走在全球的AI領先的地位嘛中國研發Deposit可獲得AI人工智能其實這個人工智能戰爭已經熱戰中了各國都投入在這個AI領域嘛\n702182\t714400\t連工業總會在因應這次關稅中提出六大建言其中有一個就是強化AI人才培育那我請教次長台南何時能有原產的國產的原生AI誕生\n716441\t736094\t報告委員AI也是這個艾總統所說的五大信賴產業之一所以我們現在相關的部會尤其是在經濟部積極的在培育AI的相關的人才到目前為止我們從賴政府上台之後到目前我們已經培育了6萬人次所以我們的目標是在4年之內要培育20萬人到現在已經有6萬人\n742838\t771390\t打標所以經濟部的相關的部會都在進行人才培育工作那實際上其他的部會包括速發部等等也都在進行相關的工作你們有培育到6萬的人次的?有你確定?是我們看一個資料就好了差不多請你簡單再導我就好了你看這個排名我們是21嘛全球AI這個指數嘛對不對然後郭部長還特別提到說今年年底要超越香港\n772310\t799507\t是不是 然後看明年能不能再超越第六名的藍函嘛齁那你們有一個從去年開始政府就喊出2加4的人才培育方案每年要培育2.5萬的海外生嘛 對不對然後國內是2.5萬嘛四年要培育20萬的AI相關人才你講的是這個啊對現在已經有達到6萬的 6萬人次去年才開始呢對 但是因為呢我們所謂的培育的話是包括我們經濟部所屬的所有的\n800597\t811884\t這個掌管的產業別包括製造業以及你在最後看一張表格好不好你看這個全球AI的指標有七大指數有七大的指標台灣我們除了這個基礎建設有極盡滿分其他除了政府\n816631\t832563\t策略、商業及人才、政策環境等等好像都不盡理想那我在去年6月12日總諮詢有特別建立說雲林科大這個退場之後有30公頃的校地12棟校舍空間可利用可以成為台灣首座\n833563\t859597\t這個AI人才的培訓基地郭部長也有承諾那你們金光鼠也在8月5號今年的8月5號不是去年8月5號有提出環球課到退場的校地營運規劃那規劃有三大主軸第一個是AI國際經貿暨雙軸轉型人才培育創新研發暨AI新創育成支持輔導其他就幼齡壯齡在滴熱火了那如今這個全球的AI戰已經如虎如同在展開\n860885\t873455\t但是環球消停還限制在那個地方你們資金的產花所三大功能下落不明所以部長要宣誓要趕到14名明年要趕到第2名我覺得指日不可待\n876440\t892101\t你怎麼笑出來報告委員我的剛剛的您所說的這個排名的檢討我們在部內確實有做檢討我們也希望能夠精進我們全這個全台灣的AI不只是人陪甚至包括相關的這個環境那\n894045\t919880\t您所提示的這個環球科大的部分我回去再跟產發所再來我這邊這樣嘛你的另外人士等一下會後給我們委員會資料這第一個看你整個執行的狀態是怎麼樣那第二個我希望剛剛針對這個環球科大要來做整個轉移應用成為AI的這個培訓人才你們的時程是不是可以加快有相關的積極的這樣的報告給我們來做參考是好謝謝好謝謝莊委謝謝謝謝劉昭\n","txt":"來,謝謝召委一行部長。劉少偉好。部長好,部長辛苦了。部長,昨天消防署查國防生計有查出什麼嗎?\n這個畢竟是去年七月份的事情嘛,如果現在還能夠讓你們抄出什麼東西,那就是真的FDA加FBI現在回過頭來,為什麼去年七月發生的事情,國光生技場內發生這麼嚴重的問題,不用進行通報?\n然後你知道國防生技在講什麼嗎老鼠釋放在研發區研發區與生產區有明確的區隔不屬於藥品優良製作作業範圍GMP的規範的範圍內因此不會影響到藥品品質請署長回應我兩個問題第一個查到什麼第二個國防生技這樣回應對嗎好 謝謝 謝謝委員我請署長\n謝謝委員非常精準的提問有關於國光生技的部分呢第一個是我們昨天七點知道的消息幾點昨天早上七點的時候立刻就在昨天就派人去國光生技做查核馬上我們就出發了\n那對於為什麼在國光沒有立即去通報這件事情因為在GMP沒有涉及產品那國光他們是這麼樣子的解釋但是我們認為一樣GMP沒有涉及產品對他沒有涉及產品的部分所以他就說是沒有通報可是我們去的時候我們不是這樣子認為的因此我們有開出缺失這邊特別跟委員做進一步報告\n對 所以針對國光生技講的這句話他不在他這個事發地點不在GMP的規範裡面正確嗎我們其實我們就直接開出了缺失了跟委員做進入報告你要回應我啊對 已經我們有開出了他的缺失他這樣子是不符合的是不符合嘛所以國光生技是到現在還在騙還是怎樣為什麼講出這樣的話我想這個藥廠裡面難道不包含他所謂的實驗區不包含他的實驗室不包含他的研發區嗎\n我想他們的認定上面呢跟我們去查查的過程當中呢其實是有出入的我們認為我們他必須要包含的相關的查案雖然說他這個在二樓的研發的獨立區域跟我們的上市產品的實驗區在B1跟一樓呢是分開來的是實體上面是區隔的所以對於所有的產品是沒有有風險的\n不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一�\n吹哨者的報紙是說 去年的7月台風馬台中市24、25就已經停班停課也因此國防升級的員工就便於形勢直接把實驗室放在實驗室中兩天重新上班之後發現老鼠屎尿滲出 瘤痰滿桌事後又拖了三天才一種也就是說這些老鼠在實驗室待了五天不僅如此 連莊白老鼠的紙箱被屎尿濺濕這種應該立即丟棄的東西竟然還堆在實驗室好多天\n部長跟署長可以看拖影片那這個實驗室裡面有檢測核酸與DNA濃度的精密儀器製冰器和溫水槽加上有鹽酸、硫酸、紅毛磷就連研發人員的實驗跑也通通暴露在污染中對不對\n報告委員第一個部分呢有關於這個實驗室的部分其實在26號正式上班就已經移走了這部分說進一步說明那整個實驗室在去年113年的8月6號呢也遷移到南投那本市查查呢也確認了這個空間呢這種8月6號的時候我們就不要再談嘛好不好我們就談這個事發的當時的時間才準確嘛你連事後的傾銷到底有沒有落實\n其實也沒有知道嘛 也不知道有進一步的有清消 這個紀錄上面你沒有指出這是他缺失之一嗎對啊 研發部門環境消毒 紀錄也不完整啊報告外務員 他們有做清消 只是我們覺得他的紀錄不夠完整記錄不夠完整嘛 所以還是提出了一些糾正另外這個介紹者說 二樓實驗室二樓廁所是瀰漫到整個樓梯間喔而樓下一樓就是品管的檢驗區\n那另外 雖然評管檢驗區是獨立的空調空間啦齁但除此之外 這整棟大樓空調系統也是相通這些鼠毛衣會在大樓流竄所有工作人員在這個工作環境下在工作所以即便評管區有區隔這樣的環境你們會不會要幫國光掛保證我們沒有掛保證 因為跟委員這邊報告因為整個的空調系統是獨立的啦\n那我們回風的時候其實它轉生的所謂的過濾跟阻隔跟傾銷的部分呢其實它的整個空調系統裡面有進一步的做阻隔沒有 署長我時間有限我當然是希望讓你答覆的清楚不過可能要就陳瑋瑜所講的大家要抓的精準因為他之前已經講說沒有違反GMP了我就覺得非常的離譜到極點了這是第一點 第二點\n他絕對不是只有這個環境而已不是只有這個研發實驗室你看喔除了生產區、微弱石、無菌跟這個監控外實驗室也沒有做管理紀錄就這樣被...欸對不起他在這個...他在這個...對不起我用一個隱喻啦就是五字要這個部分啦\n5G二部分去年才發生的事情它有針對這事項的缺失你們就把它列為嚴重違反GMP的藥廠對不對那你們怎麼處理跟委員這邊報告因為這個跟產品之間是有關係的所以直接會對品質有影響所以它列的層級就自然所以國防生技你的意思是要跟我表達就是說跟產品沒有關係\n你要直接這麼講目前我們去查查之後因為廠內的製造疫苗的產品跟生產跟檢驗都沒有在這次涉案的範圍的區域執行因此我們判斷是沒有對疫苗的品質跟安全有差異的但是我們一致還是要去強調是我們是對國際一致性的PIX GMP的規範\n對藥廠進行定期跟不定期的一些查查希望我們能夠嚴格的把關製藥業的一些製造的品質組長你們對五福是這麼處理的剛剛我講的那一段是針對五福除了生產區會落實無菌跟健康外實驗室也沒有做管理的紀錄你們這樣就把它打為嚴重違反GMP那現在是直接實驗室裡面有違規養老鼠甚至於死尿紙箱都不丟然後存放在那邊要培養什麼樣的東西\n這樣的GMP廠可以云東風情說因為他醫療的區域不一樣請大家放心可以這樣嗎\n我們這一次要重申其實食藥署對於國內藥廠的GMP是已經建立了我們國際的規格只有這樣子嚴謹的國際規格才能夠讓我們的產品可以到全世界都能夠走得通所以我們對於這件事件我們非常嚴謹的去做採取雖然說我們看到它是獨立管理的品質是無虞的但是我們還是提出了嚴重的缺失以上說明\n一定會的不然我們前兩天上禮拜才講說人家那個世界的那個極大的藥廠投資是在新加坡怎麼反而不選擇到台灣來如果這個事情處理得不好真的會一笑大方也會折損我們整個在執行這個GMP過程裡面對我們的信心會大打折扣\n好不好 可以吧可以的 我們一定積極的採取好 謝謝對不起 稍微再給我一點點時間我請經濟部的次長\n市長一邊走一邊聽美國貿易代表在3月31公布2025對外貿易障礙評估中其中點名台灣豬牛馬燈設有貿易障礙等於是我們在歧視這個台灣標示美豬美牛是這樣的一個歧視的行為但事實上台灣的肉品都有標示產地不論美國就連澳洲就連日本甚至以台灣本土都會標示出來甚至以被川普講的加拿大比較稱為他的\n一周我們都要標示出來嘛哪來的歧視哪來的不平等哪來的沒有公平你們簡單回應一下是我們的現在的相關的標示呢都是一體適用的所以未來呢我們在\n我們未來的談判團隊一定會去跟這個美方去說明清楚這個部分呢是在台灣在台灣的話是一體施用對所以我是要特別強調說如果是這個樣子美方就講說實際上在歧視那相對其他這麼多國家都是一樣在台灣一視同仁的標示出來\n那來來有歧視的問題不可能嘛對不對那你今天你美國牛肉豬肉輸入到台灣輸給加拿大輸入到台灣的整個數量那是他們自己要去做檢討修正反而不能來講說是我們設下貿易障礙讓他們的銷售量低於其他進口的國家的銷售量\n我想這個談判裡面應該你們應該是可以來拒以力爭看責任的緩和來把這事情講清楚所以台灣的農業絕對不能成為這次美國貿易關稅談判桌的籌碼市長可以做到嗎剩下不到90天整個談判團隊在政府院長的領軍之下我們一定盡我們最大的能力農業是一個非常敏感的在那個產業那台灣是以農立國台灣以農為本\n那絕對不能在這次關稅談判中然後讓我們台灣農業去受到任何的傷害跟折損好不好可以啦 謝謝那第二件事情是這樣這個關稅不僅全球起商人連各行各業都受到不同程度的衝擊有一個職業逆風上漲市長有掌握嗎有一個產業的人才的人力他是逆風上漲就是有這個\n七成八的民眾優關稅占影響工作但是這個AI職缺卻飆升到11%市長你知道這個事情嗎美國川普也宣布要赤字五千億美元打造這個STARTGATE然後的AI超級企劃也要讓美國走在全球的AI領先的地位嘛中國研發Deposit可獲得AI人工智能其實這個人工智能戰爭已經熱戰中了各國都投入在這個AI領域嘛\n連工業總會在因應這次關稅中提出六大建言其中有一個就是強化AI人才培育那我請教次長台南何時能有原產的國產的原生AI誕生\n報告委員AI也是這個艾總統所說的五大信賴產業之一所以我們現在相關的部會尤其是在經濟部積極的在培育AI的相關的人才到目前為止我們從賴政府上台之後到目前我們已經培育了6萬人次所以我們的目標是在4年之內要培育20萬人到現在已經有6萬人\n打標所以經濟部的相關的部會都在進行人才培育工作那實際上其他的部會包括速發部等等也都在進行相關的工作你們有培育到6萬的人次的?有你確定?是我們看一個資料就好了差不多請你簡單再導我就好了你看這個排名我們是21嘛全球AI這個指數嘛對不對然後郭部長還特別提到說今年年底要超越香港\n是不是 然後看明年能不能再超越第六名的藍函嘛齁那你們有一個從去年開始政府就喊出2加4的人才培育方案每年要培育2.5萬的海外生嘛 對不對然後國內是2.5萬嘛四年要培育20萬的AI相關人才你講的是這個啊對現在已經有達到6萬的 6萬人次去年才開始呢對 但是因為呢我們所謂的培育的話是包括我們經濟部所屬的所有的\n這個掌管的產業別包括製造業以及你在最後看一張表格好不好你看這個全球AI的指標有七大指數有七大的指標台灣我們除了這個基礎建設有極盡滿分其他除了政府\n策略、商業及人才、政策環境等等好像都不盡理想那我在去年6月12日總諮詢有特別建立說雲林科大這個退場之後有30公頃的校地12棟校舍空間可利用可以成為台灣首座\n這個AI人才的培訓基地郭部長也有承諾那你們金光鼠也在8月5號今年的8月5號不是去年8月5號有提出環球課到退場的校地營運規劃那規劃有三大主軸第一個是AI國際經貿暨雙軸轉型人才培育創新研發暨AI新創育成支持輔導其他就幼齡壯齡在滴熱火了那如今這個全球的AI戰已經如虎如同在展開\n但是環球消停還限制在那個地方你們資金的產花所三大功能下落不明所以部長要宣誓要趕到14名明年要趕到第2名我覺得指日不可待\n你怎麼笑出來報告委員我的剛剛的您所說的這個排名的檢討我們在部內確實有做檢討我們也希望能夠精進我們全這個全台灣的AI不只是人陪甚至包括相關的這個環境那\n您所提示的這個環球科大的部分我回去再跟產發所再來我這邊這樣嘛你的另外人士等一下會後給我們委員會資料這第一個看你整個執行的狀態是怎麼樣那第二個我希望剛剛針對這個環球科大要來做整個轉移應用成為AI的這個培訓人才你們的時程是不是可以加快有相關的積極的這樣的報告給我們來做參考是好謝謝好謝謝莊委謝謝謝謝劉昭\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.110 --> 00:23.897\n來,謝謝召委一行部長。劉少偉好。部長好,部長辛苦了。部長,昨天消防署查國防生計有查出什麼嗎?\n\n00:27.915 --> 00:43.422\n這個畢竟是去年七月份的事情嘛,如果現在還能夠讓你們抄出什麼東西,那就是真的FDA加FBI現在回過頭來,為什麼去年七月發生的事情,國光生技場內發生這麼嚴重的問題,不用進行通報?\n\n00:48.507 --> 01:08.632\n然後你知道國防生技在講什麼嗎老鼠釋放在研發區研發區與生產區有明確的區隔不屬於藥品優良製作作業範圍GMP的規範的範圍內因此不會影響到藥品品質請署長回應我兩個問題第一個查到什麼第二個國防生技這樣回應對嗎好謝謝謝謝委員我請署長\n\n01:16.064 --> 01:32.595\n謝謝委員非常精準的提問有關於國光生技的部分呢第一個是我們昨天七點知道的消息幾點昨天早上七點的時候立刻就在昨天就派人去國光生技做查核馬上我們就出發了\n\n01:33.596 --> 01:59.296\n那對於為什麼在國光沒有立即去通報這件事情因為在GMP沒有涉及產品那國光他們是這麼樣子的解釋但是我們認為一樣GMP沒有涉及產品對他沒有涉及產品的部分所以他就說是沒有通報可是我們去的時候我們不是這樣子認為的因此我們有開出缺失這邊特別跟委員做進一步報告\n\n02:00.357 --> 02:28.907\n對所以針對國光生技講的這句話他不在他這個事發地點不在GMP的規範裡面正確嗎我們其實我們就直接開出了缺失了跟委員做進入報告你要回應我啊對已經我們有開出了他的缺失他這樣子是不符合的是不符合嘛所以國光生技是到現在還在騙還是怎樣為什麼講出這樣的話我想這個藥廠裡面難道不包含他所謂的實驗區不包含他的實驗室不包含他的研發區嗎\n\n02:30.646 --> 02:54.876\n我想他們的認定上面呢跟我們去查查的過程當中呢其實是有出入的我們認為我們他必須要包含的相關的查案雖然說他這個在二樓的研發的獨立區域跟我們的上市產品的實驗區在B1跟一樓呢是分開來的是實體上面是區隔的所以對於所有的產品是沒有有風險的\n\n02:56.457 --> 03:13.843\n不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一樓或是二樓不管它一�\n\n03:25.103 --> 03:53.961\n吹哨者的報紙是說去年的7月台風馬台中市24、25就已經停班停課也因此國防升級的員工就便於形勢直接把實驗室放在實驗室中兩天重新上班之後發現老鼠屎尿滲出瘤痰滿桌事後又拖了三天才一種也就是說這些老鼠在實驗室待了五天不僅如此連莊白老鼠的紙箱被屎尿濺濕這種應該立即丟棄的東西竟然還堆在實驗室好多天\n\n03:54.827 --> 04:09.125\n部長跟署長可以看拖影片那這個實驗室裡面有檢測核酸與DNA濃度的精密儀器製冰器和溫水槽加上有鹽酸、硫酸、紅毛磷就連研發人員的實驗跑也通通暴露在污染中對不對\n\n04:10.627 --> 04:32.462\n報告委員第一個部分呢有關於這個實驗室的部分其實在26號正式上班就已經移走了這部分說進一步說明那整個實驗室在去年113年的8月6號呢也遷移到南投那本市查查呢也確認了這個空間呢這種8月6號的時候我們就不要再談嘛好不好我們就談這個事發的當時的時間才準確嘛你連事後的傾銷到底有沒有落實\n\n04:38.826 --> 05:03.865\n其實也沒有知道嘛也不知道有進一步的有清消這個紀錄上面你沒有指出這是他缺失之一嗎對啊研發部門環境消毒紀錄也不完整啊報告外務員他們有做清消只是我們覺得他的紀錄不夠完整記錄不夠完整嘛所以還是提出了一些糾正另外這個介紹者說二樓實驗室二樓廁所是瀰漫到整個樓梯間喔而樓下一樓就是品管的檢驗區\n\n05:05.146 --> 05:32.667\n那另外雖然評管檢驗區是獨立的空調空間啦齁但除此之外這整棟大樓空調系統也是相通這些鼠毛衣會在大樓流竄所有工作人員在這個工作環境下在工作所以即便評管區有區隔這樣的環境你們會不會要幫國光掛保證我們沒有掛保證因為跟委員這邊報告因為整個的空調系統是獨立的啦\n\n05:33.067 --> 05:58.524\n那我們回風的時候其實它轉生的所謂的過濾跟阻隔跟傾銷的部分呢其實它的整個空調系統裡面有進一步的做阻隔沒有署長我時間有限我當然是希望讓你答覆的清楚不過可能要就陳瑋瑜所講的大家要抓的精準因為他之前已經講說沒有違反GMP了我就覺得非常的離譜到極點了這是第一點第二點\n\n05:59.775 --> 06:16.178\n他絕對不是只有這個環境而已不是只有這個研發實驗室你看喔除了生產區、微弱石、無菌跟這個監控外實驗室也沒有做管理紀錄就這樣被...欸對不起他在這個...他在這個...對不起我用一個隱喻啦就是五字要這個部分啦\n\n06:29.893 --> 06:51.372\n5G二部分去年才發生的事情它有針對這事項的缺失你們就把它列為嚴重違反GMP的藥廠對不對那你們怎麼處理跟委員這邊報告因為這個跟產品之間是有關係的所以直接會對品質有影響所以它列的層級就自然所以國防生技你的意思是要跟我表達就是說跟產品沒有關係\n\n06:52.472 --> 07:14.959\n你要直接這麼講目前我們去查查之後因為廠內的製造疫苗的產品跟生產跟檢驗都沒有在這次涉案的範圍的區域執行因此我們判斷是沒有對疫苗的品質跟安全有差異的但是我們一致還是要去強調是我們是對國際一致性的PIXGMP的規範\n\n07:17.079 --> 07:42.729\n對藥廠進行定期跟不定期的一些查查希望我們能夠嚴格的把關製藥業的一些製造的品質組長你們對五福是這麼處理的剛剛我講的那一段是針對五福除了生產區會落實無菌跟健康外實驗室也沒有做管理的紀錄你們這樣就把它打為嚴重違反GMP那現在是直接實驗室裡面有違規養老鼠甚至於死尿紙箱都不丟然後存放在那邊要培養什麼樣的東西\n\n07:44.070 --> 07:49.824\n這樣的GMP廠可以云東風情說因為他醫療的區域不一樣請大家放心可以這樣嗎\n\n07:51.823 --> 08:16.989\n我們這一次要重申其實食藥署對於國內藥廠的GMP是已經建立了我們國際的規格只有這樣子嚴謹的國際規格才能夠讓我們的產品可以到全世界都能夠走得通所以我們對於這件事件我們非常嚴謹的去做採取雖然說我們看到它是獨立管理的品質是無虞的但是我們還是提出了嚴重的缺失以上說明\n\n08:20.067 --> 08:41.074\n一定會的不然我們前兩天上禮拜才講說人家那個世界的那個極大的藥廠投資是在新加坡怎麼反而不選擇到台灣來如果這個事情處理得不好真的會一笑大方也會折損我們整個在執行這個GMP過程裡面對我們的信心會大打折扣\n\n08:42.045 --> 08:47.669\n好不好可以吧可以的我們一定積極的採取好謝謝對不起稍微再給我一點點時間我請經濟部的次長\n\n08:51.978 --> 09:20.344\n市長一邊走一邊聽美國貿易代表在3月31公布2025對外貿易障礙評估中其中點名台灣豬牛馬燈設有貿易障礙等於是我們在歧視這個台灣標示美豬美牛是這樣的一個歧視的行為但事實上台灣的肉品都有標示產地不論美國就連澳洲就連日本甚至以台灣本土都會標示出來甚至以被川普講的加拿大比較稱為他的\n\n09:21.464 --> 09:36.500\n一周我們都要標示出來嘛哪來的歧視哪來的不平等哪來的沒有公平你們簡單回應一下是我們的現在的相關的標示呢都是一體適用的所以未來呢我們在\n\n09:37.749 --> 09:57.576\n我們未來的談判團隊一定會去跟這個美方去說明清楚這個部分呢是在台灣在台灣的話是一體施用對所以我是要特別強調說如果是這個樣子美方就講說實際上在歧視那相對其他這麼多國家都是一樣在台灣一視同仁的標示出來\n\n09:58.618 --> 10:07.703\n那來來有歧視的問題不可能嘛對不對那你今天你美國牛肉豬肉輸入到台灣輸給加拿大輸入到台灣的整個數量那是他們自己要去做檢討修正反而不能來講說是我們設下貿易障礙讓他們的銷售量低於其他進口的國家的銷售量\n\n10:18.789 --> 10:46.387\n我想這個談判裡面應該你們應該是可以來拒以力爭看責任的緩和來把這事情講清楚所以台灣的農業絕對不能成為這次美國貿易關稅談判桌的籌碼市長可以做到嗎剩下不到90天整個談判團隊在政府院長的領軍之下我們一定盡我們最大的能力農業是一個非常敏感的在那個產業那台灣是以農立國台灣以農為本\n\n10:47.788 --> 11:04.338\n那絕對不能在這次關稅談判中然後讓我們台灣農業去受到任何的傷害跟折損好不好可以啦謝謝那第二件事情是這樣這個關稅不僅全球起商人連各行各業都受到不同程度的衝擊有一個職業逆風上漲市長有掌握嗎有一個產業的人才的人力他是逆風上漲就是有這個\n\n11:12.310 --> 11:41.221\n七成八的民眾優關稅占影響工作但是這個AI職缺卻飆升到11%市長你知道這個事情嗎美國川普也宣布要赤字五千億美元打造這個STARTGATE然後的AI超級企劃也要讓美國走在全球的AI領先的地位嘛中國研發Deposit可獲得AI人工智能其實這個人工智能戰爭已經熱戰中了各國都投入在這個AI領域嘛\n\n11:42.182 --> 11:54.400\n連工業總會在因應這次關稅中提出六大建言其中有一個就是強化AI人才培育那我請教次長台南何時能有原產的國產的原生AI誕生\n\n11:56.441 --> 12:16.094\n報告委員AI也是這個艾總統所說的五大信賴產業之一所以我們現在相關的部會尤其是在經濟部積極的在培育AI的相關的人才到目前為止我們從賴政府上台之後到目前我們已經培育了6萬人次所以我們的目標是在4年之內要培育20萬人到現在已經有6萬人\n\n12:22.838 --> 12:51.390\n打標所以經濟部的相關的部會都在進行人才培育工作那實際上其他的部會包括速發部等等也都在進行相關的工作你們有培育到6萬的人次的?有你確定?是我們看一個資料就好了差不多請你簡單再導我就好了你看這個排名我們是21嘛全球AI這個指數嘛對不對然後郭部長還特別提到說今年年底要超越香港\n\n12:52.310 --> 13:19.507\n是不是然後看明年能不能再超越第六名的藍函嘛齁那你們有一個從去年開始政府就喊出2加4的人才培育方案每年要培育2.5萬的海外生嘛對不對然後國內是2.5萬嘛四年要培育20萬的AI相關人才你講的是這個啊對現在已經有達到6萬的6萬人次去年才開始呢對但是因為呢我們所謂的培育的話是包括我們經濟部所屬的所有的\n\n13:20.597 --> 13:31.884\n這個掌管的產業別包括製造業以及你在最後看一張表格好不好你看這個全球AI的指標有七大指數有七大的指標台灣我們除了這個基礎建設有極盡滿分其他除了政府\n\n13:36.631 --> 13:52.563\n策略、商業及人才、政策環境等等好像都不盡理想那我在去年6月12日總諮詢有特別建立說雲林科大這個退場之後有30公頃的校地12棟校舍空間可利用可以成為台灣首座\n\n13:53.563 --> 14:19.597\n這個AI人才的培訓基地郭部長也有承諾那你們金光鼠也在8月5號今年的8月5號不是去年8月5號有提出環球課到退場的校地營運規劃那規劃有三大主軸第一個是AI國際經貿暨雙軸轉型人才培育創新研發暨AI新創育成支持輔導其他就幼齡壯齡在滴熱火了那如今這個全球的AI戰已經如虎如同在展開\n\n14:20.885 --> 14:33.455\n但是環球消停還限制在那個地方你們資金的產花所三大功能下落不明所以部長要宣誓要趕到14名明年要趕到第2名我覺得指日不可待\n\n14:36.440 --> 14:52.101\n你怎麼笑出來報告委員我的剛剛的您所說的這個排名的檢討我們在部內確實有做檢討我們也希望能夠精進我們全這個全台灣的AI不只是人陪甚至包括相關的這個環境那\n\n14:54.045 --> 15:19.880\n您所提示的這個環球科大的部分我回去再跟產發所再來我這邊這樣嘛你的另外人士等一下會後給我們委員會資料這第一個看你整個執行的狀態是怎麼樣那第二個我希望剛剛針對這個環球科大要來做整個轉移應用成為AI的這個培訓人才你們的時程是不是可以加快有相關的積極的這樣的報告給我們來做參考是好謝謝好謝謝莊委謝謝謝謝劉昭\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.11,"end":23.897,"text":"來,謝謝召委一行部長。劉少偉好。部長好,部長辛苦了。部長,昨天消防署查國防生計有查出什麼嗎?"},{"start":27.915,"end":43.422,"text":"這個畢竟是去年七月份的事情嘛,如果現在還能夠讓你們抄出什麼東西,那就是真的FDA加FBI現在回過頭來,為什麼去年七月發生的事情,國光生技場內發生這麼嚴重的問題,不用進行通報?"},{"start":48.507,"end":68.632,"text":"然後你知道國防生技在講什麼嗎老鼠釋放在研發區研發區與生產區有明確的區隔不屬於藥品優良製作作業範圍GMP的規範的範圍內因此不會影響到藥品品質請署長回應我兩個問題第一個查到什麼第二個國防生技這樣回應對嗎好 謝謝 謝謝委員我請署長"},{"start":76.064,"end":92.595,"text":"謝謝委員非常精準的提問有關於國光生技的部分呢第一個是我們昨天七點知道的消息幾點昨天早上七點的時候立刻就在昨天就派人去國光生技做查核馬上我們就出發了"},{"start":93.596,"end":119.296,"text":"那對於為什麼在國光沒有立即去通報這件事情因為在GMP沒有涉及產品那國光他們是這麼樣子的解釋但是我們認為一樣GMP沒有涉及產品對他沒有涉及產品的部分所以他就說是沒有通報可是我們去的時候我們不是這樣子認為的因此我們有開出缺失這邊特別跟委員做進一步報告"},{"start":120.357,"end":148.907,"text":"對 所以針對國光生技講的這句話他不在他這個事發地點不在GMP的規範裡面正確嗎我們其實我們就直接開出了缺失了跟委員做進入報告你要回應我啊對 已經我們有開出了他的缺失他這樣子是不符合的是不符合嘛所以國光生技是到現在還在騙還是怎樣為什麼講出這樣的話我想這個藥廠裡面難道不包含他所謂的實驗區不包含他的實驗室不包含他的研發區嗎"},{"start":150.646,"end":174.876,"text":"我想他們的認定上面呢跟我們去查查的過程當中呢其實是有出入的我們認為我們他必須要包含的相關的查案雖然說他這個在二樓的研發的獨立區域跟我們的上市產品的實驗區在B1跟一樓呢是分開來的是實體上面是區隔的所以對於所有的產品是沒有有風險的"},{"start":176.457,"end":193.843,"text":"不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一樓或是二樓 不管它一�"},{"start":205.103,"end":233.961,"text":"吹哨者的報紙是說 去年的7月台風馬台中市24、25就已經停班停課也因此國防升級的員工就便於形勢直接把實驗室放在實驗室中兩天重新上班之後發現老鼠屎尿滲出 瘤痰滿桌事後又拖了三天才一種也就是說這些老鼠在實驗室待了五天不僅如此 連莊白老鼠的紙箱被屎尿濺濕這種應該立即丟棄的東西竟然還堆在實驗室好多天"},{"start":234.827,"end":249.125,"text":"部長跟署長可以看拖影片那這個實驗室裡面有檢測核酸與DNA濃度的精密儀器製冰器和溫水槽加上有鹽酸、硫酸、紅毛磷就連研發人員的實驗跑也通通暴露在污染中對不對"},{"start":250.627,"end":272.462,"text":"報告委員第一個部分呢有關於這個實驗室的部分其實在26號正式上班就已經移走了這部分說進一步說明那整個實驗室在去年113年的8月6號呢也遷移到南投那本市查查呢也確認了這個空間呢這種8月6號的時候我們就不要再談嘛好不好我們就談這個事發的當時的時間才準確嘛你連事後的傾銷到底有沒有落實"},{"start":278.826,"end":303.865,"text":"其實也沒有知道嘛 也不知道有進一步的有清消 這個紀錄上面你沒有指出這是他缺失之一嗎對啊 研發部門環境消毒 紀錄也不完整啊報告外務員 他們有做清消 只是我們覺得他的紀錄不夠完整記錄不夠完整嘛 所以還是提出了一些糾正另外這個介紹者說 二樓實驗室二樓廁所是瀰漫到整個樓梯間喔而樓下一樓就是品管的檢驗區"},{"start":305.146,"end":332.667,"text":"那另外 雖然評管檢驗區是獨立的空調空間啦齁但除此之外 這整棟大樓空調系統也是相通這些鼠毛衣會在大樓流竄所有工作人員在這個工作環境下在工作所以即便評管區有區隔這樣的環境你們會不會要幫國光掛保證我們沒有掛保證 因為跟委員這邊報告因為整個的空調系統是獨立的啦"},{"start":333.067,"end":358.524,"text":"那我們回風的時候其實它轉生的所謂的過濾跟阻隔跟傾銷的部分呢其實它的整個空調系統裡面有進一步的做阻隔沒有 署長我時間有限我當然是希望讓你答覆的清楚不過可能要就陳瑋瑜所講的大家要抓的精準因為他之前已經講說沒有違反GMP了我就覺得非常的離譜到極點了這是第一點 第二點"},{"start":359.775,"end":376.178,"text":"他絕對不是只有這個環境而已不是只有這個研發實驗室你看喔除了生產區、微弱石、無菌跟這個監控外實驗室也沒有做管理紀錄就這樣被...欸對不起他在這個...他在這個...對不起我用一個隱喻啦就是五字要這個部分啦"},{"start":389.893,"end":411.372,"text":"5G二部分去年才發生的事情它有針對這事項的缺失你們就把它列為嚴重違反GMP的藥廠對不對那你們怎麼處理跟委員這邊報告因為這個跟產品之間是有關係的所以直接會對品質有影響所以它列的層級就自然所以國防生技你的意思是要跟我表達就是說跟產品沒有關係"},{"start":412.472,"end":434.959,"text":"你要直接這麼講目前我們去查查之後因為廠內的製造疫苗的產品跟生產跟檢驗都沒有在這次涉案的範圍的區域執行因此我們判斷是沒有對疫苗的品質跟安全有差異的但是我們一致還是要去強調是我們是對國際一致性的PIX GMP的規範"},{"start":437.079,"end":462.729,"text":"對藥廠進行定期跟不定期的一些查查希望我們能夠嚴格的把關製藥業的一些製造的品質組長你們對五福是這麼處理的剛剛我講的那一段是針對五福除了生產區會落實無菌跟健康外實驗室也沒有做管理的紀錄你們這樣就把它打為嚴重違反GMP那現在是直接實驗室裡面有違規養老鼠甚至於死尿紙箱都不丟然後存放在那邊要培養什麼樣的東西"},{"start":464.07,"end":469.824,"text":"這樣的GMP廠可以云東風情說因為他醫療的區域不一樣請大家放心可以這樣嗎"},{"start":471.823,"end":496.989,"text":"我們這一次要重申其實食藥署對於國內藥廠的GMP是已經建立了我們國際的規格只有這樣子嚴謹的國際規格才能夠讓我們的產品可以到全世界都能夠走得通所以我們對於這件事件我們非常嚴謹的去做採取雖然說我們看到它是獨立管理的品質是無虞的但是我們還是提出了嚴重的缺失以上說明"},{"start":500.067,"end":521.074,"text":"一定會的不然我們前兩天上禮拜才講說人家那個世界的那個極大的藥廠投資是在新加坡怎麼反而不選擇到台灣來如果這個事情處理得不好真的會一笑大方也會折損我們整個在執行這個GMP過程裡面對我們的信心會大打折扣"},{"start":522.045,"end":527.669,"text":"好不好 可以吧可以的 我們一定積極的採取好 謝謝對不起 稍微再給我一點點時間我請經濟部的次長"},{"start":531.978,"end":560.344,"text":"市長一邊走一邊聽美國貿易代表在3月31公布2025對外貿易障礙評估中其中點名台灣豬牛馬燈設有貿易障礙等於是我們在歧視這個台灣標示美豬美牛是這樣的一個歧視的行為但事實上台灣的肉品都有標示產地不論美國就連澳洲就連日本甚至以台灣本土都會標示出來甚至以被川普講的加拿大比較稱為他的"},{"start":561.464,"end":576.5,"text":"一周我們都要標示出來嘛哪來的歧視哪來的不平等哪來的沒有公平你們簡單回應一下是我們的現在的相關的標示呢都是一體適用的所以未來呢我們在"},{"start":577.749,"end":597.576,"text":"我們未來的談判團隊一定會去跟這個美方去說明清楚這個部分呢是在台灣在台灣的話是一體施用對所以我是要特別強調說如果是這個樣子美方就講說實際上在歧視那相對其他這麼多國家都是一樣在台灣一視同仁的標示出來"},{"start":598.618,"end":607.703,"text":"那來來有歧視的問題不可能嘛對不對那你今天你美國牛肉豬肉輸入到台灣輸給加拿大輸入到台灣的整個數量那是他們自己要去做檢討修正反而不能來講說是我們設下貿易障礙讓他們的銷售量低於其他進口的國家的銷售量"},{"start":618.789,"end":646.387,"text":"我想這個談判裡面應該你們應該是可以來拒以力爭看責任的緩和來把這事情講清楚所以台灣的農業絕對不能成為這次美國貿易關稅談判桌的籌碼市長可以做到嗎剩下不到90天整個談判團隊在政府院長的領軍之下我們一定盡我們最大的能力農業是一個非常敏感的在那個產業那台灣是以農立國台灣以農為本"},{"start":647.788,"end":664.338,"text":"那絕對不能在這次關稅談判中然後讓我們台灣農業去受到任何的傷害跟折損好不好可以啦 謝謝那第二件事情是這樣這個關稅不僅全球起商人連各行各業都受到不同程度的衝擊有一個職業逆風上漲市長有掌握嗎有一個產業的人才的人力他是逆風上漲就是有這個"},{"start":672.31,"end":701.221,"text":"七成八的民眾優關稅占影響工作但是這個AI職缺卻飆升到11%市長你知道這個事情嗎美國川普也宣布要赤字五千億美元打造這個STARTGATE然後的AI超級企劃也要讓美國走在全球的AI領先的地位嘛中國研發Deposit可獲得AI人工智能其實這個人工智能戰爭已經熱戰中了各國都投入在這個AI領域嘛"},{"start":702.182,"end":714.4,"text":"連工業總會在因應這次關稅中提出六大建言其中有一個就是強化AI人才培育那我請教次長台南何時能有原產的國產的原生AI誕生"},{"start":716.441,"end":736.094,"text":"報告委員AI也是這個艾總統所說的五大信賴產業之一所以我們現在相關的部會尤其是在經濟部積極的在培育AI的相關的人才到目前為止我們從賴政府上台之後到目前我們已經培育了6萬人次所以我們的目標是在4年之內要培育20萬人到現在已經有6萬人"},{"start":742.838,"end":771.39,"text":"打標所以經濟部的相關的部會都在進行人才培育工作那實際上其他的部會包括速發部等等也都在進行相關的工作你們有培育到6萬的人次的?有你確定?是我們看一個資料就好了差不多請你簡單再導我就好了你看這個排名我們是21嘛全球AI這個指數嘛對不對然後郭部長還特別提到說今年年底要超越香港"},{"start":772.31,"end":799.507,"text":"是不是 然後看明年能不能再超越第六名的藍函嘛齁那你們有一個從去年開始政府就喊出2加4的人才培育方案每年要培育2.5萬的海外生嘛 對不對然後國內是2.5萬嘛四年要培育20萬的AI相關人才你講的是這個啊對現在已經有達到6萬的 6萬人次去年才開始呢對 但是因為呢我們所謂的培育的話是包括我們經濟部所屬的所有的"},{"start":800.597,"end":811.884,"text":"這個掌管的產業別包括製造業以及你在最後看一張表格好不好你看這個全球AI的指標有七大指數有七大的指標台灣我們除了這個基礎建設有極盡滿分其他除了政府"},{"start":816.631,"end":832.563,"text":"策略、商業及人才、政策環境等等好像都不盡理想那我在去年6月12日總諮詢有特別建立說雲林科大這個退場之後有30公頃的校地12棟校舍空間可利用可以成為台灣首座"},{"start":833.563,"end":859.597,"text":"這個AI人才的培訓基地郭部長也有承諾那你們金光鼠也在8月5號今年的8月5號不是去年8月5號有提出環球課到退場的校地營運規劃那規劃有三大主軸第一個是AI國際經貿暨雙軸轉型人才培育創新研發暨AI新創育成支持輔導其他就幼齡壯齡在滴熱火了那如今這個全球的AI戰已經如虎如同在展開"},{"start":860.885,"end":873.455,"text":"但是環球消停還限制在那個地方你們資金的產花所三大功能下落不明所以部長要宣誓要趕到14名明年要趕到第2名我覺得指日不可待"},{"start":876.44,"end":892.101,"text":"你怎麼笑出來報告委員我的剛剛的您所說的這個排名的檢討我們在部內確實有做檢討我們也希望能夠精進我們全這個全台灣的AI不只是人陪甚至包括相關的這個環境那"},{"start":894.045,"end":919.88,"text":"您所提示的這個環球科大的部分我回去再跟產發所再來我這邊這樣嘛你的另外人士等一下會後給我們委員會資料這第一個看你整個執行的狀態是怎麼樣那第二個我希望剛剛針對這個環球科大要來做整個轉移應用成為AI的這個培訓人才你們的時程是不是可以加快有相關的積極的這樣的報告給我們來做參考是好謝謝好謝謝莊委謝謝謝謝劉昭"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":821,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（12時16分）謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["邱部長泰源：劉召委好。"],["劉委員建國：部長好。部長辛苦了。部長，昨天食藥署查國光生技有查出什麼嗎？這個畢竟是去年7月份的事情，如果現在還能夠讓你們查出什麼東西，那就是真的是FDA＋FBI。現在回過頭來，為什麼去年7月國光生技廠內發生這麼嚴重的問題，不用進行通報？然後你知道國光生技講什麼嗎？老鼠是放在研發區，研發區與生產區有明確的區隔，不屬於藥品優良製作作業範圍GMP所規範的範圍內，因此不會影響到藥品品質。請署長回應我兩個問題，第一個，查到什麼？第二個，國光生技這樣回應對嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。謝謝委員。我請署長。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員非常精準的提問。有關於國光生技的部分，第一個，我們昨天7點知道的消息……"],["劉委員建國：幾點？"],["姜署長至剛：昨天早上7點的時候，我立刻就在昨天派人去國光生技做查核，我們馬上就出發了，對於為什麼國光沒有立即去通報這件事情，因為在GMP沒有涉及這產品，國光他們是這麼樣子的解釋，但是我們認為，一樣的……"],["劉委員建國：GMP沒有涉及產品？"],["姜署長至剛：對。沒有涉及產品的部分，所以它就說沒有通報，可是我們去的時候，我們不是這樣子認為的，因此我們有開出缺失，這邊特別跟委員做進一步的報告。"],["劉委員建國：對，所以針對國光生技講的這句話，這一個事發的地點不在GMP的規範裡面，正確嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：其實我們就直接開出缺失了，跟委員做進一步報告。"],["劉委員建國：你要回應我啊。"],["姜署長至剛：對，我們已經有開出了它的缺失，這樣子是不符合的。"],["劉委員建國：是不符合嘛？所以國光生技到現在還在騙，還是怎樣？為什麼講出這樣的話？這個藥廠裡面難道不包含它所謂的實驗區、不包含它的實驗室、不包含它的研發區嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：我想他們的認定上，跟我們去查察的過程當中，其實是有出入的，我們認為他們必須要包含了相關的查核，雖然說這個在二樓的研發的獨立區域，跟我們的上市產品的實驗區在B1跟一樓，是分開來的，實體上面是區隔的，所以對於所有的產品是沒有風險的。"],["劉委員建國：不管是在一樓或是二樓，署長，你不能這樣回答我吧？不管是一樓或二樓，整棟建物難道不屬於規範GMP廠的範圍裡面嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：有，是在範圍內，我們很清楚地說是在……"],["劉委員建國：所以它怎麼可以說不屬於藥品優良製造作業規範GMP所屬的規範範圍？"],["姜署長至剛：我想他們這樣子的論述是他們的，可是我們監管的單位裡面是完全不一樣的看法跟做法。"],["劉委員建國：吹哨者的爆料是說，去年7月颱風期間，臺中市在24日及25日就已經停班停課，也因此國光生技的員工就便宜行事，直接把實驗鼠放在實驗室中2天，重新上班之後，發現老鼠屎尿滲出，流淌滿桌，事後又拖了3天才移走，也就是說，這些老鼠在實驗室待了5天。不僅如此，連裝白老鼠的紙箱被屎尿浸溼，這種應該立即丟棄的東西，竟然還堆在實驗室好多天。部長跟署長可以看投影片。這個實驗室裡面有檢測核酸與DNA濃度的精密儀器、製冰器、恆溫水槽，加上有鹽酸、硫酸、福馬林，就連研發人員的實驗袍，也統統暴露在污染中，對不對？"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，第一個部分，有關於實驗鼠的部分，其實在26日正式上班就已經移走了，就這個部分做進一步說明。整個實驗室在去年（113年）8月6日也遷移到南投，本次查察也確認了這個空間……"],["劉委員建國：8月6日的事，我們就不要再談嘛，好不好？我們就談事發當時的時間才準確嘛，你連事後的清消到底有沒有落實其實也不知道嘛。"],["姜署長至剛：有，進一步的有清消，紀錄上面有。"],["劉委員建國：你們有指出這是它的缺失之一嘛，研發部門環境消毒紀錄也不完整啊。"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，他們有做清消，只是我們覺得他的紀錄不夠完整，就提出了一些糾正。"],["劉委員建國：然後另外，吹哨者的說法是說，二樓實驗室惡臭瀰漫到整個樓梯間，而樓下一樓就是品管檢驗區。","另外，雖然品管檢驗區是獨立的空調空間，但除此之外，整棟大樓的空調系統也是相通的，這些鼠毛在大樓流竄，工作人員在這個工作環境下工作，即便品管區有區隔，這樣的環境，你們衛福部要幫國光掛保證，你們可以……"],["姜署長至剛：我們沒有掛保證，跟委員報告，因為整個空調系統是獨立的，那我們回封了之後，其實它本身的過濾、阻隔跟清消的部分，整個空調系統裡面有進一步的做阻隔。"],["劉委員建國：署長，我的時間有限，我當然希望讓你答覆得清楚，不過可能就誠如你所講的，大家要抓得精準，它既然已經講說沒有違反GMP了，我就覺得非常離譜，離譜到極點了，這是第一點。","第二點，絕對不是只有這個環境而已，不是只有這個研發實驗室，你看，除了生產區會落實無菌跟監控外，實驗室也沒有做管理紀錄，我用一個隱喻，就是五福製藥，這是去年才發生的事情，它有這四項缺失，你們就把它列為嚴重違反GMP的藥廠，對不對？那你們怎麼處理？"],["姜署長至剛：跟委員報告，因為這個跟產品之間是有關係的，所以直接會對品質有影響，所以它列的層級就自然……"],["劉委員建國：所以你的意思是要跟我表達，就是國光生技的事跟產品沒有關係？你要直接這麼講？"],["姜署長至剛：目前我們去查察之後，因為廠內製造的疫苗產品生產跟檢驗，都沒有在這次涉案範圍的區域執行，因此我們判斷疫苗的品質跟安全是沒有差異的，但是我們還是要一致強調的是，我們對於國際一致性的PIC/S GMP的規範，對藥廠進行定期跟不定期的一些查察，希望我們能夠嚴格把關製藥業的製造品質……"],["劉委員建國：部長，你們對五福是這麼處理的，剛剛我講的那一段就是針對五福，除了生產區會落實無菌跟監控外，實驗室也沒有做管理的紀錄，你們這樣就把它打為嚴重違反GMP的規範，那現在國光是直接在實驗室裡面違規養老鼠，甚至於屎尿、紙箱都不丟，然後存放在那邊要培養什麼樣的東西，對這樣的GMP廠，可以雲淡風清地說，因為一、二樓的區域不一樣，請大家放心，可以這樣嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：我們這一次要重申，其實食藥署對於國內藥廠的PIC/S GMP已經建立了國際的規格，只有這樣子嚴謹的國際規格，才能讓我們的產品可以到全世界都能夠走得通，所以我們對於這一個事件，非常、非常嚴謹地去做裁處，雖然說我們看到它是獨立管理的，品質是無虞的，但是我們還是提出了嚴重的缺失。以上說明。"],["劉委員建國：徹查到底。"],["姜署長至剛：一定會的。一定會的。"],["劉委員建國：我們上個禮拜才講說世界級的大藥廠投資是在新加坡，怎麼不選擇到臺灣來，如果這個事情處理得不好，真的會貽笑大方，也會讓我們在執行GMP的過程裡面，讓人民對我們的信心大打折扣。好不好？可以吧？"],["姜署長至剛：可以的，我們一定積極地裁處。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。對不起，召委，再給我一點點時間。我們請經濟部江次長。次長，你一邊講一邊聽，美國貿易代表在3月31日公布2025對外貿易障礙評估中，其中點名臺灣豬、牛設有貿易障礙，等於是我們在歧視，臺灣標示美豬、美牛是一個歧視的行為，但事實上臺灣的肉品都有標示產地，不論美國，就連澳洲、就連日本，甚至於臺灣本土，都會標示出來，甚至於被川普講要成為美國一州的加拿大，我們都要標示出來，哪來的歧視？哪來的不平等？哪來的沒有公平？你能不能簡單回應一下？"],["江次長文若：是。我們現在相關的標示都是一體適用的，所以我們未來的談判團隊一定會去跟美方說明清楚，這個部分在臺灣是一體適用。"],["劉委員建國：對。所以我是要特別強調，如果這個樣子美方就講說是歧視，那相對的其他這麼多國家都是一樣，在臺灣被一視同仁地標示出來，哪來有歧視的問題？不可能嘛，對不對？那今天美國牛肉、豬肉輸入到臺灣整個數量輸給加拿大，他們自己要去做檢討修正嘛，不能說是我們設下貿易障礙，讓他們的銷售量低於其他進口國家的銷售量。我想這個談判裡面，你們應該是可以來據理力爭，看怎麼緩和，來把這個事情講清楚。所以臺灣的農業絕對不能成為這一次美國貿易關稅談判桌的籌碼，次長可以做到嗎？剩下不到90天。"],["江次長文若：我們整個談判團隊在鄭副院長的領軍之下，我們一定會盡我們最大的能力去說明。"],["劉委員建國：農業是非常敏感的產業，臺灣以農立國，臺灣以農為本，絕對不能在這次關稅談判中，讓我們臺灣的農業受到任何傷害跟折損，好不好？"],["江次長文若：是。"],["劉委員建國：可以啦？謝謝。","第二件事情是這樣，這個關稅讓各行各業都受到不同程度的衝擊，有一個職業逆風上漲，次長，你有掌握嗎？有一個產業的人才、人力是逆風上漲，就是有七、八成的民眾憂心關稅戰影響工作，但是AI職缺卻飆升到11%，次長知道這個事情嗎？美國的川普也宣布要斥資5,000億美元打造「Stargate」，然後AI超級計畫也要讓美國走在全球AI的領先地位，中國研發DeepSeek的AI人工智能，其實這個人工智能戰爭已經熱戰中了，各國都投入在AI領域，連工業總會在因應這次關稅事件中提出六大建言，其中有一個就是強化AI人才培育，我請教次長，臺灣何時能有國產的原生AI誕生？"],["江次長文若：報告委員，AI也是賴總統所說的五大信賴產業之一，所以我們現在相關部會，尤其是經濟部，正積極地培育AI相關人才，到目前為止，我們從賴政府上台之後，到目前我們已經培育了6萬人次，所以我們的目標……"],["劉委員建國：培育6萬人次？"],["江次長文若：是。我們的目標是在4年之內要培育20萬人，到現在已經有6萬人達標，所以經濟部相關部會都在進行人才培育工作，實際上其他的部會，包括數發部等等，也都在進行相關的工作。"],["劉委員建國：你們有培育到6萬的人次了？"],["江次長文若：有。"],["劉委員建國：你確定？"],["江次長文若：是。"],["劉委員建國：我們看一個資料就好了，請你簡單再答覆我就好了，你看這個排名，全球AI指數，我們是排第二十一，對不對？"],["江次長文若：對。"],["劉委員建國：然後郭部長還特別提到今年年底要超越香港，是不是？"],["江次長文若：我們盡力。"],["劉委員建國：然後看明年能不能再超越第二名的南韓。從去年開始政府就喊出2＋4的人才培育方案，每年要培育2.5萬的海外生嘛，對不對？然後國內是2.5萬嘛，4年要培育20萬個AI相關人才，你講的是這個？"],["江次長文若：對。"],["劉委員建國：現在已經有達到6萬了。"],["江次長文若：6萬人次。"],["劉委員建國：去年才開始。"],["江次長文若：對。但是因為我們所謂的培育是包括我們經濟部所屬掌管的所有產業別，包括製造業及服務業。"],["劉委員建國：你再看這張表格，好不好？你看全球AI有七大指標，臺灣除了基礎建設幾近滿分，其他的政府策略、商業、人才、政策環境等等，好像都不盡理想，我在去年6月12日總質詢有特別建議，雲林科大退場之後，有30公頃的校地、12棟的校舍空間可利用，可以成為臺灣首座AI人才的培訓基地，郭部長也有承諾，你們經發局在今年的8月5日，不是去年8月5日，有提出環球科大退場的校地營運規劃，規劃有三大主軸，第一個是AI國際經貿暨雙重轉型人才培育、創新研發AI新創育成支持輔導，其他就是幼齡、壯齡、在地樂活，如今全球的AI戰已經如火如荼展開，但是環球校地還是閒置在那個地方，至今產發署的三大功能下落不明，所以部長說要從第十四名到明年提升到第二名，我覺得指日不可待。你怎麼笑出來？"],["江次長文若：報告委員，剛剛您所說的這個排名的檢討，我們在部內確實有做檢討，我們也希望能夠精進全臺灣的AI，不只是人培，甚至包括相關的環境，您所提示的環球科大的部分，我回去再跟產發署……"],["劉委員建國：這樣嘛，你的6萬人次等一下會後給我們委員會資料，看你們整個執行的狀態是怎麼樣，這是第一個。"],["江次長文若：好。"],["劉委員建國：第二個，我希望針對環球科大要來做轉移應用，成為AI人才的培訓基地這部分，你們的時程是不是可以加快？有相關的積極的報告，給我們做參考。"],["江次長文若：是。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。謝謝召委，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉召委。謝謝次長。","接續我們請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","楊曜","王正旭","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","劉建國","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","高金素梅","王鴻薇","許宇甄","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","廖偉翔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判\n代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民\n權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00005"}}}