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Kacaw等18人擬具「住宅法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、審查委員林倩綺等23人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員王鴻薇等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查委員陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n\n(僅詢答，第二十一案至第二十五案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。)\n\n【4月23日及24日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-04-24","start_time":"2025-04-24T12:39:17+08:00","end_time":"2025-04-24T12:52:05+08:00","duration":768,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-3-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"160673","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160673","tool":"pyannote","id":"160673-pyannote"},"job_id":"LVmtd9IIQGoa0awP","queued_at":"2025-04-24 13:15:23","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2025-04-24 13:16:26","msg":"downloading 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680.709, \"end\": 701.943, \"text\": \"對啊 所以你現在只是說你我是說我要求是說你再補一個喊去跟人家道歉說你沒有這個問題對不對你說你要另外一個方式喔用說明會的方式喔那天人家有空可以去聽你說明嗎你自己的一個喊造成人家的困擾啊政府不就是要服務人民嗎你們去辦演講好像不是老闆老闆被你們被你們寄到一個不死不蕩的一個通知函\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 680.709, \"end\": 681.169, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 681.169, \"end\": 681.269, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 681.269, \"end\": 681.329, \"score\": 0.57}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 681.329, \"end\": 681.45, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 681.45, \"end\": 681.61, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 681.61, \"end\": 681.81, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 681.81, \"end\": 681.99, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 681.99, \"end\": 682.31, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 682.31, \"end\": 682.49, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 682.49, \"end\": 682.77, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": 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00:01:32,451\n是不是最早開始來做第一項你知道道歉嗎是不是應該先去一個函跟他們講說我們之前記錯了張委員我昨天也有跟您解釋過我用單一的案例來解釋那我有特別提到說這些人因為他是在大陸出生那在大陸出生的時候他當時有沒有其他的證件是我們不知道的那他自己本人可能不知道\n\n4\n00:01:32,711 --> 00:01:54,959\n我昨天還是前幾天我提到的部分就是說那個可能是他的父母代為申請他的證件所以我們移民署在通發出去的時候也是要求他們要就這方面的要提出他們的說法那這個說法我昨天也特別到移民署去聽他們的簡報那簡報的時候從北中南一共有六個我們的這個服務站第一個現在進線的電話少很多\n\n5\n00:02:02,321 --> 00:02:22,088\n那對於我們提出6加2這樣的太陽的話呢大部分都了解還有人用email的方式或是打電話過來問那我們都一一跟他解釋清楚那再來就是委員有提到說那這樣子是不是有一些來台灣比較久的這個已經取得台灣的身份證的這些中配或者是陸配要再跟他們說明清楚\n\n6\n00:02:24,049 --> 00:02:50,778\n對但是我們可能會透過就是所謂的這個這個新住民的這個協會的方式來做說明也就是說去引導改選民但是沒有辦法一個一個但是我們去他們的比較長生活的區域譬如說您剛有提到可能您昨天提的案例的是在北三都我不說明特別什麼地方我大概知道是哪一個地方那北三都有比較多中配居住的地方的話呢我們移民署\n\n7\n00:02:51,198 --> 00:03:14,842\n或者是其他的這個中配的這個福利的這個權益的團體會去跟他們說明清楚這個6加3的樣態是怎麼一回事主動去說明這個是對的而且根本要解決問題其實是我昨天提的就修法把這個93年3月1號之前的就全部用拒絕來解決這個沒關係我知道我也問過陸委會目前為止並沒有修法的需要\n\n8\n00:03:16,516 --> 00:03:34,692\n有需要啊,民眾的承請就這樣,而且...我問過陸委,對,93年以前並沒有修法的需要你現在甩鍋要陸配去回去大陸拿這個...我們沒有甩鍋,應該是說我們要把它清除,比較清楚一點這樣子那你21年前沒做的啊,所以你在法律上應該就是...\n\n9\n00:03:36,053 --> 00:03:55,578\n政府存在目的是服務人民嘛你不要製造成擾民啊對不對你要服務人民這樣子的不便我們已經跟委員解釋過就是希望能夠到他們比較多聚集的地方包括他是年老的媽媽或者是比較年輕或者行動不方便的人去跟他說清楚是怎麼一回事\n\n10\n00:03:56,098 --> 00:04:21,731\n那如果真的是在法律上需要或者我們的樣態需要再做修正的話我們可以根據這些資料來做修正但是我昨天已經跟您報告過從21號開始申請到現在我們其實已經累積好幾百份甚至詢問的電話超過一千多所以這樣的部分呢大致上都能夠合乎我們的了解的程度但是我們這些匯集的資料如果還有不方便的地方的話我們還可以再檢討\n\n11\n00:04:22,751 --> 00:04:45,912\n但是這個檢討的部分並沒有涉及陸委會他們的修法保定你現在提的方法就是六類排除那我一直在跟你講這六類排除沒辦法滿足絕大部分人的困難所以我們民眾黨會提出一個修法就用時間點來劃分只要民國93年3月1號之前的全部用拒絕來把它處理第二個\n\n12\n00:04:46,833 --> 00:05:04,400\n之後的就是授權由陸委會跟內政部來定說你到底要怎麼樣把六大類再擴大這沒關係我們會提出修法那現在我提的是另外一個我也肯定你說我們說你要去辦說明會嘛你現在願意去辦這是很好的可是我剛剛點的那個點是說你舉了一個例子\n\n13\n00:05:05,599 --> 00:05:27,604\n說有人是媽媽特別又去幫他辦了這個大陸的戶籍嘛這只是一個個案啊現在很多人根本就是出生的時候就沒有辦一直到現在都沒辦結果你們的移民署變成擾民了你應該是先清清楚啊先查過嘛對不對政府你自己要先查過說我確實在大陸是沒有戶籍的你才叫我去把它拿掉嘛\n\n14\n00:05:27,984 --> 00:05:56,619\n就不是啊你前面把他放出把他丟出去造成人家的困擾啊我們是通知出去我們是通知出去請他來跟政府機關說明清楚就這樣而已將心比心啊你如果是二代還是被輸給的孩子啊你是二代你明明就在大陸就沒有戶籍啊我知道我也有私財你收到這張你收到這一張這是政府造成人家的困擾欸所以你昨天道歉嘛對不對你昨天講的就是不變的部分嘛不變的部分並不是表示要違法嘛\n\n15\n00:05:57,793 --> 00:06:08,200\n不變也要合法啊這件事情就是你造成了人民的不變嘛對不對而且是一個合法的我不是要做黑人啦你上次就嫌什麼部長你上次嫌什麼不變因為不變所造成的困擾但是並不是表示我們違法啊我們還是合法啊上面也說不變會困擾他就沒東西你怎麼可以寄給人家不是所以他要到我們移民署來拒絕嘛說就沒這個理由他就沒有為什麼要去拒絕\n\n16\n00:06:25,091 --> 00:06:39,538\n欸保定我本來就沒有大陸的戶籍你突然寄了個通知我還要因為你自己沒有親過一次然後因為你道歉完之後你補破網我跟他講說你不用回大陸去你現在叫你要去拒絕喔\n\n17\n00:06:40,698 --> 00:06:44,039\n報告我們有清過一次但是這是電子檔我們希望除了電子檔以外包括目前還有一個團體叫做中華民國大陸災包救濟總會他所提供一些比較舊的資料那我們也在清查當中\n\n18\n00:06:58,883 --> 00:07:27,580\n那我剛剛講過對於不變所造成的困擾我們確實需要改進所以我昨天也趕快請我們移民署看有沒有什麼改進的方案讓大家能夠知道說這件事是為了保障他在台灣合法的公民的一個權益這是我們應該做的你道歉只道歉了一半耶這件事情一開始就是你要寄出去之前你就跟移民署跟陸委會你要先簽過說你要寄出去這個人到底有沒有大陸的戶籍嘛\n\n19\n00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:35,688\n你沒有做這個事情所以你才需要道歉啊啊現在已經出去了你要趕快記所以我說你一個禮拜內你要清清楚要嘛一通電話要嘛你要補記一個喊去跟他講說欸抱歉我打擾你了我弄錯了是不是我剛剛說將心比心啊如果是你的話\n\n20\n00:07:46,252 --> 00:08:00,318\n你明明就沒有大陸戶籍我說如果是你或者是我被你這樣接到一個搞不好我剛講第一個那你要趕快去補正啊就說我之前是我政府的叔父啊第二可能更嚴重欸你4月2號就寄出去啊有些人已經回到大陸去啊這要不要國賠\n\n21\n00:08:08,514 --> 00:08:19,419\n要國賠嗎我一年沒貸沒錢你叫我去大陸把戶籍移除掉我從來都沒有啊我回大陸又碰了一批紙灰又回來我可以要求國賠嗎報告委員如果有這個個案的話麻煩請給我們來參考好嗎有齁\n\n22\n00:08:24,341 --> 00:08:34,850\n如果有這樣的個案是可以要求國賠嗎不是請給我們來參考一下我們看如何來補救或是補正好嗎跟國賠不一定完全關係我昨天已經跟您說過了不變並不是表示一定要違法不變但是也要合法所以部長第一個你道歉然後你說要不要國賠這個有個案你今天檢討嘛現在最大的問題還是在第二部分是不是我們國賠請求失效的部分是需要法律來認證不是我們兩個說了就算否定否定沒有沒有你第二部分還是沒有第二部分\n\n23\n00:08:53,953 --> 00:09:07,463\n我剛剛一直在強調的你明明應該是你清查過說我沒有大陸戶籍有的話你才叫我去出籍嘛對不對你在造成人民這個困擾你現在都不用去你說道歉之外你不用去通知對方一下嗎這是無望之災而且是政府造成的擾民啊不是有沒有這是不是造成擾民到底在道歉什麼啦我說第二項你到底做不做\n\n24\n00:09:19,468 --> 00:09:23,317\n如果一成為就說這個是要做的啊他們說一個禮拜內要去通知啊但不給我們討論\n\n25\n00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:51,972\n所以你的意思是你不去補給這個函去更正嗎我已經跟你回覆過了如果造成不便的地方那我們在服務上面我們會做修正但是無論他是用什麼樣的角度來看他就是要合法我們是為了保障他在中華民國這個自由地區裡面的合法的公民的權益他合乎你規定你叫他去除籍除大陸籍\n\n26\n00:09:53,573 --> 00:10:01,399\n除籍跟拒絕中間就是有一個緩衝的角度你不要把拒絕跟除籍兩件事情合在一起完全不一樣啦你一直在講合法啊他就沒有你叫人家去通知人家可能已經跑回去大陸了或者是現在受到這個困擾你是不是應該去補正要更正你不用更正嗎要不要更正沒有你給我一句話你意思是不更正啊\n\n27\n00:10:19,909 --> 00:10:30,864\n跟委員解釋過了無論怎麼樣有造成不方便的地方需要去說明我們會去說明但是無論怎麼樣我們是要保障它在台灣是合法那更何況以前的這些以前的這些我們有部分\n\n28\n00:10:35,510 --> 00:10:48,420\n報告委員行政程序上他這樣子的不管是戶籍也好或者是什麼樣子的證件他理論上都是要到海基會有公證認證之後我們才能確定把它算成是真正的公文書這樣的過程當中確實是不方便\n\n29\n00:10:51,462 --> 00:11:11,212\n但是我們因為不方便我們也提出這樣子最後的服務方式就是說去跟新住民的權益委員會一起合作再跟他們說明清楚那這一點我們能夠做的盡量做可是我還是跟委員講第一個在兩岸人民關係條例的一個規範之下我們是希望他已經朝著合法合規的方式來處理柏定你造成你找民然後錯誤污辱造成人民的困擾\n\n30\n00:11:20,709 --> 00:11:41,943\n對啊所以你現在只是說你我是說我要求是說你再補一個喊去跟人家道歉說你沒有這個問題對不對你說你要另外一個方式喔用說明會的方式喔那天人家有空可以去聽你說明嗎你自己的一個喊造成人家的困擾啊政府不就是要服務人民嗎你們去辦演講好像不是老闆老闆被你們被你們寄到一個不死不蕩的一個通知函\n\n31\n00:11:51,209 --> 00:11:52,491\n那你們不用更正喔這怎麼會按照規定嘿嘿\n\n32\n00:12:10,395 --> 00:12:24,741\n好OK那我們沒關係我昨天問過一次了今天問了那今天有一些進度嘛對不對不只是道歉你也做了一部分抓去公開說明嘛那現在可能卡住了一個很重要的點連陸委會主委都認為說應該去補正這個要去更正了你現在不記沒關係我們進一步再來討論今天是第二集嘛對這是連續劇我們幫陸配跟幫這些子女我們一定要幫他爭取他該有的權利嘛而且是政府自己堵直自己施指大烏龍當然你要去補正沒關係我們第三集我們再繼續\n\n33\n00:12:38,627 --> 00:12:39,289\n謝謝張綺凱委員請相關的機關因為這件事情確實也蠻嚴重的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15702\t21903\t來,保定,我們繼續,長時間悠閒,我們繼續把陸配交給他來,部長有請到三天,保定你請來,部長來來,你要先站上去嗎,好啊來,保定好,嘿好來,我們繼續啦,繼續長齁我們繼續幫陸配還有他的子女,解決問題保定你長\n40151\t68814\t因為那個陸委會承認說移民署把這個有些那個陸配的小孩是沒有在大陸涉及的他寄的通知單要他回大陸去除籍那你昨天也道歉了嘛齁那現在我們要再補破網要幫他們解決問題啦現在到底要怎麼解決這個問題不是跟他道歉而已啊他至少有三件事要做除了道歉是不是應該補一個函去跟他們講說我們之前寄錯了是不是必要的話人家如果已經回大陸去那應該國賠啊\n70185\t92451\t是不是最早開始來做第一項 你知道道歉嗎是不是應該先去一個函跟他們講說我們之前記錯了張委員我昨天也有跟您解釋過我用單一的案例來解釋那我有特別提到說這些人因為他是在大陸出生那在大陸出生的時候他當時有沒有其他的證件是我們不知道的那他自己本人可能不知道\n92711\t114959\t我昨天還是前幾天我提到的部分就是說那個可能是他的父母代為申請他的證件所以我們移民署在通發出去的時候也是要求他們要就這方面的要提出他們的說法那這個說法我昨天也特別到移民署去聽他們的簡報那簡報的時候從北中南一共有六個我們的這個服務站第一個現在進線的電話少很多\n122321\t142088\t那對於我們提出6加2這樣的太陽的話呢大部分都了解還有人用email的方式或是打電話過來問那我們都一一跟他解釋清楚那再來就是委員有提到說那這樣子是不是有一些來台灣比較久的這個已經取得台灣的身份證的這些中配或者是陸配要再跟他們說明清楚\n144049\t170778\t對但是我們可能會透過就是所謂的這個這個新住民的這個協會的方式來做說明也就是說去引導改選民但是沒有辦法一個一個但是我們去他們的比較長生活的區域譬如說您剛有提到可能您昨天提的案例的是在北三都我不說明特別什麼地方我大概知道是哪一個地方那北三都有比較多中配居住的地方的話呢我們移民署\n171198\t194842\t或者是其他的這個中配的這個福利的這個權益的團體會去跟他們說明清楚這個6加3的樣態是怎麼一回事主動去說明這個是對的而且根本要解決問題其實是我昨天提的就修法把這個93年3月1號之前的就全部用拒絕來解決這個沒關係我知道我也問過陸委會目前為止並沒有修法的需要\n196516\t214692\t有需要啊,民眾的承請就這樣,而且...我問過陸委,對,93年以前並沒有修法的需要你現在甩鍋要陸配去回去大陸拿這個...我們沒有甩鍋,應該是說我們要把它清除,比較清楚一點這樣子那你21年前沒做的啊,所以你在法律上應該就是...\n216053\t235578\t政府存在目的是服務人民嘛你不要製造成擾民啊對不對你要服務人民這樣子的不便我們已經跟委員解釋過就是希望能夠到他們比較多聚集的地方包括他是年老的媽媽或者是比較年輕或者行動不方便的人去跟他說清楚是怎麼一回事\n236098\t261731\t那如果真的是在法律上需要或者我們的樣態需要再做修正的話我們可以根據這些資料來做修正但是我昨天已經跟您報告過從21號開始申請到現在我們其實已經累積好幾百份甚至詢問的電話超過一千多所以這樣的部分呢大致上都能夠合乎我們的了解的程度但是我們這些匯集的資料如果還有不方便的地方的話我們還可以再檢討\n262751\t285912\t但是這個檢討的部分並沒有涉及陸委會他們的修法保定你現在提的方法就是六類排除那我一直在跟你講這六類排除沒辦法滿足絕大部分人的困難所以我們民眾黨會提出一個修法就用時間點來劃分只要民國93年3月1號之前的全部用拒絕來把它處理第二個\n286833\t304400\t之後的就是授權由陸委會跟內政部來定說你到底要怎麼樣把六大類再擴大這沒關係我們會提出修法那現在我提的是另外一個我也肯定你說我們說你要去辦說明會嘛你現在願意去辦這是很好的可是我剛剛點的那個點是說你舉了一個例子\n305599\t327604\t說有人是媽媽特別又去幫他辦了這個大陸的戶籍嘛這只是一個個案啊現在很多人根本就是出生的時候就沒有辦一直到現在都沒辦結果你們的移民署變成擾民了你應該是先清清楚啊先查過嘛對不對政府你自己要先查過說我確實在大陸是沒有戶籍的你才叫我去把它拿掉嘛\n327984\t356619\t就不是啊 你前面把他放出 把他丟出去造成人家的困擾啊我們是通知出去我們是通知出去請他來跟政府機關說明清楚就這樣而已將心比心啊 你如果是二代還是被輸給的孩子啊你是二代 你明明就在大陸就沒有戶籍啊我知道 我也有私財你收到這張 你收到這一張這是政府造成人家的困擾欸所以你昨天道歉嘛 對不對你昨天講的就是不變的部分嘛不變的部分並不是表示要違法嘛\n357793\t368200\t不變也要合法啊這件事情就是你造成了人民的不變嘛對不對 而且是一個合法的我不是要做黑人啦你上次就嫌什麼部長你上次嫌什麼不變因為不變所造成的困擾但是並不是表示我們違法啊我們還是合法啊上面也說不變會困擾他就沒東西你怎麼可以寄給人家不是 所以他要到我們移民署來拒絕嘛說就沒這個理由他就沒有 為什麼要去拒絕\n385091\t399538\t欸保定我本來就沒有大陸的戶籍你突然寄了個通知我還要因為你自己沒有親過一次然後因為你道歉完之後你補破網我跟他講說你不用回大陸去你現在叫你要去拒絕喔\n400698\t404039\t報告我們有清過一次但是這是電子檔我們希望除了電子檔以外包括目前還有一個團體叫做中華民國大陸災包救濟總會他所提供一些比較舊的資料那我們也在清查當中\n418883\t447580\t那我剛剛講過對於不變所造成的困擾我們確實需要改進所以我昨天也趕快請我們移民署看有沒有什麼改進的方案讓大家能夠知道說這件事是為了保障他在台灣合法的公民的一個權益這是我們應該做的你道歉只道歉了一半耶這件事情一開始就是你要寄出去之前你就跟移民署跟陸委會你要先簽過說你要寄出去這個人到底有沒有大陸的戶籍嘛\n448280\t455688\t你沒有做這個事情 所以你才需要道歉啊啊現在已經出去了你要趕快記 所以我說你一個禮拜內你要清清楚 要嘛一通電話要嘛你要補記一個喊去跟他講說 欸 抱歉我打擾你了 我弄錯了 是不是我剛剛說將心比心啊 如果是你的話\n466252\t480318\t你明明就沒有大陸戶籍我說如果是你或者是我被你這樣接到一個搞不好我剛講第一個那你要趕快去補正啊就說我之前是我政府的叔父啊第二可能更嚴重欸你4月2號就寄出去啊有些人已經回到大陸去啊這要不要國賠\n488514\t499419\t要國賠嗎我一年沒貸沒錢你叫我去大陸把戶籍移除掉我從來都沒有啊我回大陸又碰了一批紙灰又回來我可以要求國賠嗎報告委員如果有這個個案的話麻煩請給我們來參考好嗎有齁\n504341\t514850\t如果有這樣的個案是可以要求國賠嗎不是 請給我們來參考一下我們看如何來補救或是補正好嗎跟國賠不一定完全關係我昨天已經跟您說過了不變 並不是表示一定要違法不變 但是也要合法所以部長 第一個 你道歉然後你說要不要國賠這個有個案你今天檢討嘛現在最大的問題還是在第二部分是不是我們國賠請求失效的部分是需要法律來認證不是我們兩個說了就算否定 否定沒有沒有 你第二部分還是沒有 第二部分\n533953\t547463\t我剛剛一直在強調的 你明明應該是你清查過說我沒有大陸戶籍有的話你才叫我去出籍嘛 對不對你在造成人民這個困擾 你現在都不用去 你說道歉之外你不用去通知對方一下嗎這是無望之災 而且是政府造成的擾民啊 不是有沒有 這是不是造成擾民 到底在道歉什麼啦我說第二項你到底做不做\n559468\t563317\t如果一成為就說這個是要做的啊他們說一個禮拜內要去通知啊 但不給我們討論\n568860\t591972\t所以你的意思是你不去補給這個函去更正嗎我已經跟你回覆過了如果造成不便的地方那我們在服務上面我們會做修正但是無論他是用什麼樣的角度來看他就是要合法我們是為了保障他在中華民國這個自由地區裡面的合法的公民的權益他合乎你規定你叫他去除籍除大陸籍\n593573\t601399\t除籍跟拒絕中間就是有一個緩衝的角度你不要把拒絕跟除籍兩件事情合在一起完全不一樣啦你一直在講合法啊他就沒有你叫人家去通知人家可能已經跑回去大陸了或者是現在受到這個困擾你是不是應該去補正要更正你不用更正嗎要不要更正沒有你給我一句話你意思是不更正啊\n619909\t630864\t跟委員解釋過了無論怎麼樣有造成不方便的地方需要去說明我們會去說明但是無論怎麼樣我們是要保障它在台灣是合法那更何況以前的這些以前的這些我們有部分\n635510\t648420\t報告委員行政程序上他這樣子的不管是戶籍也好或者是什麼樣子的證件他理論上都是要到海基會有公證認證之後我們才能確定把它算成是真正的公文書這樣的過程當中確實是不方便\n651462\t671212\t但是我們因為不方便我們也提出這樣子最後的服務方式就是說去跟新住民的權益委員會一起合作再跟他們說明清楚那這一點我們能夠做的盡量做可是我還是跟委員講第一個在兩岸人民關係條例的一個規範之下我們是希望他已經朝著合法合規的方式來處理柏定你造成你找民然後錯誤污辱造成人民的困擾\n680709\t701943\t對啊 所以你現在只是說你我是說我要求是說你再補一個喊去跟人家道歉說你沒有這個問題對不對你說你要另外一個方式喔用說明會的方式喔那天人家有空可以去聽你說明嗎你自己的一個喊造成人家的困擾啊政府不就是要服務人民嗎你們去辦演講好像不是老闆老闆被你們被你們寄到一個不死不蕩的一個通知函\n711209\t712491\t那你們不用更正喔這怎麼會按照規定嘿嘿\n730395\t744741\t好 OK 那我們沒關係 我昨天問過一次了今天問了 那今天有一些進度嘛 對不對不只是道歉 你也做了一部分抓去公開說明嘛那現在可能卡住了一個很重要的點連陸委會主委都認為說應該去補正這個 要去更正了你現在不記 沒關係 我們進一步再來討論今天是第二集嘛 對 這是連續劇我們幫陸配跟幫這些子女我們一定要幫他爭取他該有的權利嘛而且是政府自己堵直自己施指大烏龍當然你要去補正 沒關係 我們第三集我們再繼續\n758627\t759289\t謝謝張綺凱委員請相關的機關因為這件事情確實也蠻嚴重的\n","txt":"來,保定,我們繼續,長時間悠閒,我們繼續把陸配交給他來,部長有請到三天,保定你請來,部長來來,你要先站上去嗎,好啊來,保定好,嘿好來,我們繼續啦,繼續長齁我們繼續幫陸配還有他的子女,解決問題保定你長\n因為那個陸委會承認說移民署把這個有些那個陸配的小孩是沒有在大陸涉及的他寄的通知單要他回大陸去除籍那你昨天也道歉了嘛齁那現在我們要再補破網要幫他們解決問題啦現在到底要怎麼解決這個問題不是跟他道歉而已啊他至少有三件事要做除了道歉是不是應該補一個函去跟他們講說我們之前寄錯了是不是必要的話人家如果已經回大陸去那應該國賠啊\n是不是最早開始來做第一項 你知道道歉嗎是不是應該先去一個函跟他們講說我們之前記錯了張委員我昨天也有跟您解釋過我用單一的案例來解釋那我有特別提到說這些人因為他是在大陸出生那在大陸出生的時候他當時有沒有其他的證件是我們不知道的那他自己本人可能不知道\n我昨天還是前幾天我提到的部分就是說那個可能是他的父母代為申請他的證件所以我們移民署在通發出去的時候也是要求他們要就這方面的要提出他們的說法那這個說法我昨天也特別到移民署去聽他們的簡報那簡報的時候從北中南一共有六個我們的這個服務站第一個現在進線的電話少很多\n那對於我們提出6加2這樣的太陽的話呢大部分都了解還有人用email的方式或是打電話過來問那我們都一一跟他解釋清楚那再來就是委員有提到說那這樣子是不是有一些來台灣比較久的這個已經取得台灣的身份證的這些中配或者是陸配要再跟他們說明清楚\n對但是我們可能會透過就是所謂的這個這個新住民的這個協會的方式來做說明也就是說去引導改選民但是沒有辦法一個一個但是我們去他們的比較長生活的區域譬如說您剛有提到可能您昨天提的案例的是在北三都我不說明特別什麼地方我大概知道是哪一個地方那北三都有比較多中配居住的地方的話呢我們移民署\n或者是其他的這個中配的這個福利的這個權益的團體會去跟他們說明清楚這個6加3的樣態是怎麼一回事主動去說明這個是對的而且根本要解決問題其實是我昨天提的就修法把這個93年3月1號之前的就全部用拒絕來解決這個沒關係我知道我也問過陸委會目前為止並沒有修法的需要\n有需要啊,民眾的承請就這樣,而且...我問過陸委,對,93年以前並沒有修法的需要你現在甩鍋要陸配去回去大陸拿這個...我們沒有甩鍋,應該是說我們要把它清除,比較清楚一點這樣子那你21年前沒做的啊,所以你在法律上應該就是...\n政府存在目的是服務人民嘛你不要製造成擾民啊對不對你要服務人民這樣子的不便我們已經跟委員解釋過就是希望能夠到他們比較多聚集的地方包括他是年老的媽媽或者是比較年輕或者行動不方便的人去跟他說清楚是怎麼一回事\n那如果真的是在法律上需要或者我們的樣態需要再做修正的話我們可以根據這些資料來做修正但是我昨天已經跟您報告過從21號開始申請到現在我們其實已經累積好幾百份甚至詢問的電話超過一千多所以這樣的部分呢大致上都能夠合乎我們的了解的程度但是我們這些匯集的資料如果還有不方便的地方的話我們還可以再檢討\n但是這個檢討的部分並沒有涉及陸委會他們的修法保定你現在提的方法就是六類排除那我一直在跟你講這六類排除沒辦法滿足絕大部分人的困難所以我們民眾黨會提出一個修法就用時間點來劃分只要民國93年3月1號之前的全部用拒絕來把它處理第二個\n之後的就是授權由陸委會跟內政部來定說你到底要怎麼樣把六大類再擴大這沒關係我們會提出修法那現在我提的是另外一個我也肯定你說我們說你要去辦說明會嘛你現在願意去辦這是很好的可是我剛剛點的那個點是說你舉了一個例子\n說有人是媽媽特別又去幫他辦了這個大陸的戶籍嘛這只是一個個案啊現在很多人根本就是出生的時候就沒有辦一直到現在都沒辦結果你們的移民署變成擾民了你應該是先清清楚啊先查過嘛對不對政府你自己要先查過說我確實在大陸是沒有戶籍的你才叫我去把它拿掉嘛\n就不是啊 你前面把他放出 把他丟出去造成人家的困擾啊我們是通知出去我們是通知出去請他來跟政府機關說明清楚就這樣而已將心比心啊 你如果是二代還是被輸給的孩子啊你是二代 你明明就在大陸就沒有戶籍啊我知道 我也有私財你收到這張 你收到這一張這是政府造成人家的困擾欸所以你昨天道歉嘛 對不對你昨天講的就是不變的部分嘛不變的部分並不是表示要違法嘛\n不變也要合法啊這件事情就是你造成了人民的不變嘛對不對 而且是一個合法的我不是要做黑人啦你上次就嫌什麼部長你上次嫌什麼不變因為不變所造成的困擾但是並不是表示我們違法啊我們還是合法啊上面也說不變會困擾他就沒東西你怎麼可以寄給人家不是 所以他要到我們移民署來拒絕嘛說就沒這個理由他就沒有 為什麼要去拒絕\n欸保定我本來就沒有大陸的戶籍你突然寄了個通知我還要因為你自己沒有親過一次然後因為你道歉完之後你補破網我跟他講說你不用回大陸去你現在叫你要去拒絕喔\n報告我們有清過一次但是這是電子檔我們希望除了電子檔以外包括目前還有一個團體叫做中華民國大陸災包救濟總會他所提供一些比較舊的資料那我們也在清查當中\n那我剛剛講過對於不變所造成的困擾我們確實需要改進所以我昨天也趕快請我們移民署看有沒有什麼改進的方案讓大家能夠知道說這件事是為了保障他在台灣合法的公民的一個權益這是我們應該做的你道歉只道歉了一半耶這件事情一開始就是你要寄出去之前你就跟移民署跟陸委會你要先簽過說你要寄出去這個人到底有沒有大陸的戶籍嘛\n你沒有做這個事情 所以你才需要道歉啊啊現在已經出去了你要趕快記 所以我說你一個禮拜內你要清清楚 要嘛一通電話要嘛你要補記一個喊去跟他講說 欸 抱歉我打擾你了 我弄錯了 是不是我剛剛說將心比心啊 如果是你的話\n你明明就沒有大陸戶籍我說如果是你或者是我被你這樣接到一個搞不好我剛講第一個那你要趕快去補正啊就說我之前是我政府的叔父啊第二可能更嚴重欸你4月2號就寄出去啊有些人已經回到大陸去啊這要不要國賠\n要國賠嗎我一年沒貸沒錢你叫我去大陸把戶籍移除掉我從來都沒有啊我回大陸又碰了一批紙灰又回來我可以要求國賠嗎報告委員如果有這個個案的話麻煩請給我們來參考好嗎有齁\n如果有這樣的個案是可以要求國賠嗎不是 請給我們來參考一下我們看如何來補救或是補正好嗎跟國賠不一定完全關係我昨天已經跟您說過了不變 並不是表示一定要違法不變 但是也要合法所以部長 第一個 你道歉然後你說要不要國賠這個有個案你今天檢討嘛現在最大的問題還是在第二部分是不是我們國賠請求失效的部分是需要法律來認證不是我們兩個說了就算否定 否定沒有沒有 你第二部分還是沒有 第二部分\n我剛剛一直在強調的 你明明應該是你清查過說我沒有大陸戶籍有的話你才叫我去出籍嘛 對不對你在造成人民這個困擾 你現在都不用去 你說道歉之外你不用去通知對方一下嗎這是無望之災 而且是政府造成的擾民啊 不是有沒有 這是不是造成擾民 到底在道歉什麼啦我說第二項你到底做不做\n如果一成為就說這個是要做的啊他們說一個禮拜內要去通知啊 但不給我們討論\n所以你的意思是你不去補給這個函去更正嗎我已經跟你回覆過了如果造成不便的地方那我們在服務上面我們會做修正但是無論他是用什麼樣的角度來看他就是要合法我們是為了保障他在中華民國這個自由地區裡面的合法的公民的權益他合乎你規定你叫他去除籍除大陸籍\n除籍跟拒絕中間就是有一個緩衝的角度你不要把拒絕跟除籍兩件事情合在一起完全不一樣啦你一直在講合法啊他就沒有你叫人家去通知人家可能已經跑回去大陸了或者是現在受到這個困擾你是不是應該去補正要更正你不用更正嗎要不要更正沒有你給我一句話你意思是不更正啊\n跟委員解釋過了無論怎麼樣有造成不方便的地方需要去說明我們會去說明但是無論怎麼樣我們是要保障它在台灣是合法那更何況以前的這些以前的這些我們有部分\n報告委員行政程序上他這樣子的不管是戶籍也好或者是什麼樣子的證件他理論上都是要到海基會有公證認證之後我們才能確定把它算成是真正的公文書這樣的過程當中確實是不方便\n但是我們因為不方便我們也提出這樣子最後的服務方式就是說去跟新住民的權益委員會一起合作再跟他們說明清楚那這一點我們能夠做的盡量做可是我還是跟委員講第一個在兩岸人民關係條例的一個規範之下我們是希望他已經朝著合法合規的方式來處理柏定你造成你找民然後錯誤污辱造成人民的困擾\n對啊 所以你現在只是說你我是說我要求是說你再補一個喊去跟人家道歉說你沒有這個問題對不對你說你要另外一個方式喔用說明會的方式喔那天人家有空可以去聽你說明嗎你自己的一個喊造成人家的困擾啊政府不就是要服務人民嗎你們去辦演講好像不是老闆老闆被你們被你們寄到一個不死不蕩的一個通知函\n那你們不用更正喔這怎麼會按照規定嘿嘿\n好 OK 那我們沒關係 我昨天問過一次了今天問了 那今天有一些進度嘛 對不對不只是道歉 你也做了一部分抓去公開說明嘛那現在可能卡住了一個很重要的點連陸委會主委都認為說應該去補正這個 要去更正了你現在不記 沒關係 我們進一步再來討論今天是第二集嘛 對 這是連續劇我們幫陸配跟幫這些子女我們一定要幫他爭取他該有的權利嘛而且是政府自己堵直自己施指大烏龍當然你要去補正 沒關係 我們第三集我們再繼續\n謝謝張綺凱委員請相關的機關因為這件事情確實也蠻嚴重的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.702 --> 00:21.903\n來,保定,我們繼續,長時間悠閒,我們繼續把陸配交給他來,部長有請到三天,保定你請來,部長來來,你要先站上去嗎,好啊來,保定好,嘿好來,我們繼續啦,繼續長齁我們繼續幫陸配還有他的子女,解決問題保定你長\n\n00:40.151 --> 01:08.814\n因為那個陸委會承認說移民署把這個有些那個陸配的小孩是沒有在大陸涉及的他寄的通知單要他回大陸去除籍那你昨天也道歉了嘛齁那現在我們要再補破網要幫他們解決問題啦現在到底要怎麼解決這個問題不是跟他道歉而已啊他至少有三件事要做除了道歉是不是應該補一個函去跟他們講說我們之前寄錯了是不是必要的話人家如果已經回大陸去那應該國賠啊\n\n01:10.185 --> 01:32.451\n是不是最早開始來做第一項你知道道歉嗎是不是應該先去一個函跟他們講說我們之前記錯了張委員我昨天也有跟您解釋過我用單一的案例來解釋那我有特別提到說這些人因為他是在大陸出生那在大陸出生的時候他當時有沒有其他的證件是我們不知道的那他自己本人可能不知道\n\n01:32.711 --> 01:54.959\n我昨天還是前幾天我提到的部分就是說那個可能是他的父母代為申請他的證件所以我們移民署在通發出去的時候也是要求他們要就這方面的要提出他們的說法那這個說法我昨天也特別到移民署去聽他們的簡報那簡報的時候從北中南一共有六個我們的這個服務站第一個現在進線的電話少很多\n\n02:02.321 --> 02:22.088\n那對於我們提出6加2這樣的太陽的話呢大部分都了解還有人用email的方式或是打電話過來問那我們都一一跟他解釋清楚那再來就是委員有提到說那這樣子是不是有一些來台灣比較久的這個已經取得台灣的身份證的這些中配或者是陸配要再跟他們說明清楚\n\n02:24.049 --> 02:50.778\n對但是我們可能會透過就是所謂的這個這個新住民的這個協會的方式來做說明也就是說去引導改選民但是沒有辦法一個一個但是我們去他們的比較長生活的區域譬如說您剛有提到可能您昨天提的案例的是在北三都我不說明特別什麼地方我大概知道是哪一個地方那北三都有比較多中配居住的地方的話呢我們移民署\n\n02:51.198 --> 03:14.842\n或者是其他的這個中配的這個福利的這個權益的團體會去跟他們說明清楚這個6加3的樣態是怎麼一回事主動去說明這個是對的而且根本要解決問題其實是我昨天提的就修法把這個93年3月1號之前的就全部用拒絕來解決這個沒關係我知道我也問過陸委會目前為止並沒有修法的需要\n\n03:16.516 --> 03:34.692\n有需要啊,民眾的承請就這樣,而且...我問過陸委,對,93年以前並沒有修法的需要你現在甩鍋要陸配去回去大陸拿這個...我們沒有甩鍋,應該是說我們要把它清除,比較清楚一點這樣子那你21年前沒做的啊,所以你在法律上應該就是...\n\n03:36.053 --> 03:55.578\n政府存在目的是服務人民嘛你不要製造成擾民啊對不對你要服務人民這樣子的不便我們已經跟委員解釋過就是希望能夠到他們比較多聚集的地方包括他是年老的媽媽或者是比較年輕或者行動不方便的人去跟他說清楚是怎麼一回事\n\n03:56.098 --> 04:21.731\n那如果真的是在法律上需要或者我們的樣態需要再做修正的話我們可以根據這些資料來做修正但是我昨天已經跟您報告過從21號開始申請到現在我們其實已經累積好幾百份甚至詢問的電話超過一千多所以這樣的部分呢大致上都能夠合乎我們的了解的程度但是我們這些匯集的資料如果還有不方便的地方的話我們還可以再檢討\n\n04:22.751 --> 04:45.912\n但是這個檢討的部分並沒有涉及陸委會他們的修法保定你現在提的方法就是六類排除那我一直在跟你講這六類排除沒辦法滿足絕大部分人的困難所以我們民眾黨會提出一個修法就用時間點來劃分只要民國93年3月1號之前的全部用拒絕來把它處理第二個\n\n04:46.833 --> 05:04.400\n之後的就是授權由陸委會跟內政部來定說你到底要怎麼樣把六大類再擴大這沒關係我們會提出修法那現在我提的是另外一個我也肯定你說我們說你要去辦說明會嘛你現在願意去辦這是很好的可是我剛剛點的那個點是說你舉了一個例子\n\n05:05.599 --> 05:27.604\n說有人是媽媽特別又去幫他辦了這個大陸的戶籍嘛這只是一個個案啊現在很多人根本就是出生的時候就沒有辦一直到現在都沒辦結果你們的移民署變成擾民了你應該是先清清楚啊先查過嘛對不對政府你自己要先查過說我確實在大陸是沒有戶籍的你才叫我去把它拿掉嘛\n\n05:27.984 --> 05:56.619\n就不是啊你前面把他放出把他丟出去造成人家的困擾啊我們是通知出去我們是通知出去請他來跟政府機關說明清楚就這樣而已將心比心啊你如果是二代還是被輸給的孩子啊你是二代你明明就在大陸就沒有戶籍啊我知道我也有私財你收到這張你收到這一張這是政府造成人家的困擾欸所以你昨天道歉嘛對不對你昨天講的就是不變的部分嘛不變的部分並不是表示要違法嘛\n\n05:57.793 --> 06:08.200\n不變也要合法啊這件事情就是你造成了人民的不變嘛對不對而且是一個合法的我不是要做黑人啦你上次就嫌什麼部長你上次嫌什麼不變因為不變所造成的困擾但是並不是表示我們違法啊我們還是合法啊上面也說不變會困擾他就沒東西你怎麼可以寄給人家不是所以他要到我們移民署來拒絕嘛說就沒這個理由他就沒有為什麼要去拒絕\n\n06:25.091 --> 06:39.538\n欸保定我本來就沒有大陸的戶籍你突然寄了個通知我還要因為你自己沒有親過一次然後因為你道歉完之後你補破網我跟他講說你不用回大陸去你現在叫你要去拒絕喔\n\n06:40.698 --> 06:44.039\n報告我們有清過一次但是這是電子檔我們希望除了電子檔以外包括目前還有一個團體叫做中華民國大陸災包救濟總會他所提供一些比較舊的資料那我們也在清查當中\n\n06:58.883 --> 07:27.580\n那我剛剛講過對於不變所造成的困擾我們確實需要改進所以我昨天也趕快請我們移民署看有沒有什麼改進的方案讓大家能夠知道說這件事是為了保障他在台灣合法的公民的一個權益這是我們應該做的你道歉只道歉了一半耶這件事情一開始就是你要寄出去之前你就跟移民署跟陸委會你要先簽過說你要寄出去這個人到底有沒有大陸的戶籍嘛\n\n07:28.280 --> 07:35.688\n你沒有做這個事情所以你才需要道歉啊啊現在已經出去了你要趕快記所以我說你一個禮拜內你要清清楚要嘛一通電話要嘛你要補記一個喊去跟他講說欸抱歉我打擾你了我弄錯了是不是我剛剛說將心比心啊如果是你的話\n\n07:46.252 --> 08:00.318\n你明明就沒有大陸戶籍我說如果是你或者是我被你這樣接到一個搞不好我剛講第一個那你要趕快去補正啊就說我之前是我政府的叔父啊第二可能更嚴重欸你4月2號就寄出去啊有些人已經回到大陸去啊這要不要國賠\n\n08:08.514 --> 08:19.419\n要國賠嗎我一年沒貸沒錢你叫我去大陸把戶籍移除掉我從來都沒有啊我回大陸又碰了一批紙灰又回來我可以要求國賠嗎報告委員如果有這個個案的話麻煩請給我們來參考好嗎有齁\n\n08:24.341 --> 08:34.850\n如果有這樣的個案是可以要求國賠嗎不是請給我們來參考一下我們看如何來補救或是補正好嗎跟國賠不一定完全關係我昨天已經跟您說過了不變並不是表示一定要違法不變但是也要合法所以部長第一個你道歉然後你說要不要國賠這個有個案你今天檢討嘛現在最大的問題還是在第二部分是不是我們國賠請求失效的部分是需要法律來認證不是我們兩個說了就算否定否定沒有沒有你第二部分還是沒有第二部分\n\n08:53.953 --> 09:07.463\n我剛剛一直在強調的你明明應該是你清查過說我沒有大陸戶籍有的話你才叫我去出籍嘛對不對你在造成人民這個困擾你現在都不用去你說道歉之外你不用去通知對方一下嗎這是無望之災而且是政府造成的擾民啊不是有沒有這是不是造成擾民到底在道歉什麼啦我說第二項你到底做不做\n\n09:19.468 --> 09:23.317\n如果一成為就說這個是要做的啊他們說一個禮拜內要去通知啊但不給我們討論\n\n09:28.860 --> 09:51.972\n所以你的意思是你不去補給這個函去更正嗎我已經跟你回覆過了如果造成不便的地方那我們在服務上面我們會做修正但是無論他是用什麼樣的角度來看他就是要合法我們是為了保障他在中華民國這個自由地區裡面的合法的公民的權益他合乎你規定你叫他去除籍除大陸籍\n\n09:53.573 --> 10:01.399\n除籍跟拒絕中間就是有一個緩衝的角度你不要把拒絕跟除籍兩件事情合在一起完全不一樣啦你一直在講合法啊他就沒有你叫人家去通知人家可能已經跑回去大陸了或者是現在受到這個困擾你是不是應該去補正要更正你不用更正嗎要不要更正沒有你給我一句話你意思是不更正啊\n\n10:19.909 --> 10:30.864\n跟委員解釋過了無論怎麼樣有造成不方便的地方需要去說明我們會去說明但是無論怎麼樣我們是要保障它在台灣是合法那更何況以前的這些以前的這些我們有部分\n\n10:35.510 --> 10:48.420\n報告委員行政程序上他這樣子的不管是戶籍也好或者是什麼樣子的證件他理論上都是要到海基會有公證認證之後我們才能確定把它算成是真正的公文書這樣的過程當中確實是不方便\n\n10:51.462 --> 11:11.212\n但是我們因為不方便我們也提出這樣子最後的服務方式就是說去跟新住民的權益委員會一起合作再跟他們說明清楚那這一點我們能夠做的盡量做可是我還是跟委員講第一個在兩岸人民關係條例的一個規範之下我們是希望他已經朝著合法合規的方式來處理柏定你造成你找民然後錯誤污辱造成人民的困擾\n\n11:20.709 --> 11:41.943\n對啊所以你現在只是說你我是說我要求是說你再補一個喊去跟人家道歉說你沒有這個問題對不對你說你要另外一個方式喔用說明會的方式喔那天人家有空可以去聽你說明嗎你自己的一個喊造成人家的困擾啊政府不就是要服務人民嗎你們去辦演講好像不是老闆老闆被你們被你們寄到一個不死不蕩的一個通知函\n\n11:51.209 --> 11:52.491\n那你們不用更正喔這怎麼會按照規定嘿嘿\n\n12:10.395 --> 12:24.741\n好OK那我們沒關係我昨天問過一次了今天問了那今天有一些進度嘛對不對不只是道歉你也做了一部分抓去公開說明嘛那現在可能卡住了一個很重要的點連陸委會主委都認為說應該去補正這個要去更正了你現在不記沒關係我們進一步再來討論今天是第二集嘛對這是連續劇我們幫陸配跟幫這些子女我們一定要幫他爭取他該有的權利嘛而且是政府自己堵直自己施指大烏龍當然你要去補正沒關係我們第三集我們再繼續\n\n12:38.627 --> 12:39.289\n謝謝張綺凱委員請相關的機關因為這件事情確實也蠻嚴重的\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.702,"end":21.903,"text":"來,保定,我們繼續,長時間悠閒,我們繼續把陸配交給他來,部長有請到三天,保定你請來,部長來來,你要先站上去嗎,好啊來,保定好,嘿好來,我們繼續啦,繼續長齁我們繼續幫陸配還有他的子女,解決問題保定你長"},{"start":40.151,"end":68.814,"text":"因為那個陸委會承認說移民署把這個有些那個陸配的小孩是沒有在大陸涉及的他寄的通知單要他回大陸去除籍那你昨天也道歉了嘛齁那現在我們要再補破網要幫他們解決問題啦現在到底要怎麼解決這個問題不是跟他道歉而已啊他至少有三件事要做除了道歉是不是應該補一個函去跟他們講說我們之前寄錯了是不是必要的話人家如果已經回大陸去那應該國賠啊"},{"start":70.185,"end":92.451,"text":"是不是最早開始來做第一項 你知道道歉嗎是不是應該先去一個函跟他們講說我們之前記錯了張委員我昨天也有跟您解釋過我用單一的案例來解釋那我有特別提到說這些人因為他是在大陸出生那在大陸出生的時候他當時有沒有其他的證件是我們不知道的那他自己本人可能不知道"},{"start":92.711,"end":114.959,"text":"我昨天還是前幾天我提到的部分就是說那個可能是他的父母代為申請他的證件所以我們移民署在通發出去的時候也是要求他們要就這方面的要提出他們的說法那這個說法我昨天也特別到移民署去聽他們的簡報那簡報的時候從北中南一共有六個我們的這個服務站第一個現在進線的電話少很多"},{"start":122.321,"end":142.088,"text":"那對於我們提出6加2這樣的太陽的話呢大部分都了解還有人用email的方式或是打電話過來問那我們都一一跟他解釋清楚那再來就是委員有提到說那這樣子是不是有一些來台灣比較久的這個已經取得台灣的身份證的這些中配或者是陸配要再跟他們說明清楚"},{"start":144.049,"end":170.778,"text":"對但是我們可能會透過就是所謂的這個這個新住民的這個協會的方式來做說明也就是說去引導改選民但是沒有辦法一個一個但是我們去他們的比較長生活的區域譬如說您剛有提到可能您昨天提的案例的是在北三都我不說明特別什麼地方我大概知道是哪一個地方那北三都有比較多中配居住的地方的話呢我們移民署"},{"start":171.198,"end":194.842,"text":"或者是其他的這個中配的這個福利的這個權益的團體會去跟他們說明清楚這個6加3的樣態是怎麼一回事主動去說明這個是對的而且根本要解決問題其實是我昨天提的就修法把這個93年3月1號之前的就全部用拒絕來解決這個沒關係我知道我也問過陸委會目前為止並沒有修法的需要"},{"start":196.516,"end":214.692,"text":"有需要啊,民眾的承請就這樣,而且...我問過陸委,對,93年以前並沒有修法的需要你現在甩鍋要陸配去回去大陸拿這個...我們沒有甩鍋,應該是說我們要把它清除,比較清楚一點這樣子那你21年前沒做的啊,所以你在法律上應該就是..."},{"start":216.053,"end":235.578,"text":"政府存在目的是服務人民嘛你不要製造成擾民啊對不對你要服務人民這樣子的不便我們已經跟委員解釋過就是希望能夠到他們比較多聚集的地方包括他是年老的媽媽或者是比較年輕或者行動不方便的人去跟他說清楚是怎麼一回事"},{"start":236.098,"end":261.731,"text":"那如果真的是在法律上需要或者我們的樣態需要再做修正的話我們可以根據這些資料來做修正但是我昨天已經跟您報告過從21號開始申請到現在我們其實已經累積好幾百份甚至詢問的電話超過一千多所以這樣的部分呢大致上都能夠合乎我們的了解的程度但是我們這些匯集的資料如果還有不方便的地方的話我們還可以再檢討"},{"start":262.751,"end":285.912,"text":"但是這個檢討的部分並沒有涉及陸委會他們的修法保定你現在提的方法就是六類排除那我一直在跟你講這六類排除沒辦法滿足絕大部分人的困難所以我們民眾黨會提出一個修法就用時間點來劃分只要民國93年3月1號之前的全部用拒絕來把它處理第二個"},{"start":286.833,"end":304.4,"text":"之後的就是授權由陸委會跟內政部來定說你到底要怎麼樣把六大類再擴大這沒關係我們會提出修法那現在我提的是另外一個我也肯定你說我們說你要去辦說明會嘛你現在願意去辦這是很好的可是我剛剛點的那個點是說你舉了一個例子"},{"start":305.599,"end":327.604,"text":"說有人是媽媽特別又去幫他辦了這個大陸的戶籍嘛這只是一個個案啊現在很多人根本就是出生的時候就沒有辦一直到現在都沒辦結果你們的移民署變成擾民了你應該是先清清楚啊先查過嘛對不對政府你自己要先查過說我確實在大陸是沒有戶籍的你才叫我去把它拿掉嘛"},{"start":327.984,"end":356.619,"text":"就不是啊 你前面把他放出 把他丟出去造成人家的困擾啊我們是通知出去我們是通知出去請他來跟政府機關說明清楚就這樣而已將心比心啊 你如果是二代還是被輸給的孩子啊你是二代 你明明就在大陸就沒有戶籍啊我知道 我也有私財你收到這張 你收到這一張這是政府造成人家的困擾欸所以你昨天道歉嘛 對不對你昨天講的就是不變的部分嘛不變的部分並不是表示要違法嘛"},{"start":357.793,"end":368.2,"text":"不變也要合法啊這件事情就是你造成了人民的不變嘛對不對 而且是一個合法的我不是要做黑人啦你上次就嫌什麼部長你上次嫌什麼不變因為不變所造成的困擾但是並不是表示我們違法啊我們還是合法啊上面也說不變會困擾他就沒東西你怎麼可以寄給人家不是 所以他要到我們移民署來拒絕嘛說就沒這個理由他就沒有 為什麼要去拒絕"},{"start":385.091,"end":399.538,"text":"欸保定我本來就沒有大陸的戶籍你突然寄了個通知我還要因為你自己沒有親過一次然後因為你道歉完之後你補破網我跟他講說你不用回大陸去你現在叫你要去拒絕喔"},{"start":400.698,"end":404.039,"text":"報告我們有清過一次但是這是電子檔我們希望除了電子檔以外包括目前還有一個團體叫做中華民國大陸災包救濟總會他所提供一些比較舊的資料那我們也在清查當中"},{"start":418.883,"end":447.58,"text":"那我剛剛講過對於不變所造成的困擾我們確實需要改進所以我昨天也趕快請我們移民署看有沒有什麼改進的方案讓大家能夠知道說這件事是為了保障他在台灣合法的公民的一個權益這是我們應該做的你道歉只道歉了一半耶這件事情一開始就是你要寄出去之前你就跟移民署跟陸委會你要先簽過說你要寄出去這個人到底有沒有大陸的戶籍嘛"},{"start":448.28,"end":455.688,"text":"你沒有做這個事情 所以你才需要道歉啊啊現在已經出去了你要趕快記 所以我說你一個禮拜內你要清清楚 要嘛一通電話要嘛你要補記一個喊去跟他講說 欸 抱歉我打擾你了 我弄錯了 是不是我剛剛說將心比心啊 如果是你的話"},{"start":466.252,"end":480.318,"text":"你明明就沒有大陸戶籍我說如果是你或者是我被你這樣接到一個搞不好我剛講第一個那你要趕快去補正啊就說我之前是我政府的叔父啊第二可能更嚴重欸你4月2號就寄出去啊有些人已經回到大陸去啊這要不要國賠"},{"start":488.514,"end":499.419,"text":"要國賠嗎我一年沒貸沒錢你叫我去大陸把戶籍移除掉我從來都沒有啊我回大陸又碰了一批紙灰又回來我可以要求國賠嗎報告委員如果有這個個案的話麻煩請給我們來參考好嗎有齁"},{"start":504.341,"end":514.85,"text":"如果有這樣的個案是可以要求國賠嗎不是 請給我們來參考一下我們看如何來補救或是補正好嗎跟國賠不一定完全關係我昨天已經跟您說過了不變 並不是表示一定要違法不變 但是也要合法所以部長 第一個 你道歉然後你說要不要國賠這個有個案你今天檢討嘛現在最大的問題還是在第二部分是不是我們國賠請求失效的部分是需要法律來認證不是我們兩個說了就算否定 否定沒有沒有 你第二部分還是沒有 第二部分"},{"start":533.953,"end":547.463,"text":"我剛剛一直在強調的 你明明應該是你清查過說我沒有大陸戶籍有的話你才叫我去出籍嘛 對不對你在造成人民這個困擾 你現在都不用去 你說道歉之外你不用去通知對方一下嗎這是無望之災 而且是政府造成的擾民啊 不是有沒有 這是不是造成擾民 到底在道歉什麼啦我說第二項你到底做不做"},{"start":559.468,"end":563.317,"text":"如果一成為就說這個是要做的啊他們說一個禮拜內要去通知啊 但不給我們討論"},{"start":568.86,"end":591.972,"text":"所以你的意思是你不去補給這個函去更正嗎我已經跟你回覆過了如果造成不便的地方那我們在服務上面我們會做修正但是無論他是用什麼樣的角度來看他就是要合法我們是為了保障他在中華民國這個自由地區裡面的合法的公民的權益他合乎你規定你叫他去除籍除大陸籍"},{"start":593.573,"end":601.399,"text":"除籍跟拒絕中間就是有一個緩衝的角度你不要把拒絕跟除籍兩件事情合在一起完全不一樣啦你一直在講合法啊他就沒有你叫人家去通知人家可能已經跑回去大陸了或者是現在受到這個困擾你是不是應該去補正要更正你不用更正嗎要不要更正沒有你給我一句話你意思是不更正啊"},{"start":619.909,"end":630.864,"text":"跟委員解釋過了無論怎麼樣有造成不方便的地方需要去說明我們會去說明但是無論怎麼樣我們是要保障它在台灣是合法那更何況以前的這些以前的這些我們有部分"},{"start":635.51,"end":648.42,"text":"報告委員行政程序上他這樣子的不管是戶籍也好或者是什麼樣子的證件他理論上都是要到海基會有公證認證之後我們才能確定把它算成是真正的公文書這樣的過程當中確實是不方便"},{"start":651.462,"end":671.212,"text":"但是我們因為不方便我們也提出這樣子最後的服務方式就是說去跟新住民的權益委員會一起合作再跟他們說明清楚那這一點我們能夠做的盡量做可是我還是跟委員講第一個在兩岸人民關係條例的一個規範之下我們是希望他已經朝著合法合規的方式來處理柏定你造成你找民然後錯誤污辱造成人民的困擾"},{"start":680.709,"end":701.943,"text":"對啊 所以你現在只是說你我是說我要求是說你再補一個喊去跟人家道歉說你沒有這個問題對不對你說你要另外一個方式喔用說明會的方式喔那天人家有空可以去聽你說明嗎你自己的一個喊造成人家的困擾啊政府不就是要服務人民嗎你們去辦演講好像不是老闆老闆被你們被你們寄到一個不死不蕩的一個通知函"},{"start":711.209,"end":712.491,"text":"那你們不用更正喔這怎麼會按照規定嘿嘿"},{"start":730.395,"end":744.741,"text":"好 OK 那我們沒關係 我昨天問過一次了今天問了 那今天有一些進度嘛 對不對不只是道歉 你也做了一部分抓去公開說明嘛那現在可能卡住了一個很重要的點連陸委會主委都認為說應該去補正這個 要去更正了你現在不記 沒關係 我們進一步再來討論今天是第二集嘛 對 這是連續劇我們幫陸配跟幫這些子女我們一定要幫他爭取他該有的權利嘛而且是政府自己堵直自己施指大烏龍當然你要去補正 沒關係 我們第三集我們再繼續"},{"start":758.627,"end":759.289,"text":"謝謝張綺凱委員請相關的機關因為這件事情確實也蠻嚴重的"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":908,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時39分）部長，昨天時間有限，我們繼續幫忙陸配。"],["主席：部長，有請。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我們繼續昨天的討論，幫陸配還有他的子女解決問題。部長，陸委會承認移民署針對一些沒有在大陸設籍的陸配小孩寄了通知單，要求回大陸除籍，你昨天也道歉了嘛！而現在我們要再補破網，幫他們解決問題啦！現在到底要怎麼解決這個問題？不只是道歉而已，至少有3件事要做，除了道歉，是不是應該補一個函，跟他們講你們之前寄錯了，甚至必要的話，如果人家已經回大陸去了，那應該國賠啊！是不是最少要開始做第二項？你昨天道歉了啊！那是不是應該先寄個函跟他們講你們之前寄錯了，通知他們一下？"],["劉部長世芳：張委員，我昨天也跟您解釋過，是以單一案例解釋。我特別提到，因為這些人在大陸出生，那麼他們在大陸出生當時有沒有其他證件是我們不知道的，他自己、本人可能不知道，因為如我昨天或前幾天所提到的，可能由他的父母代為申請他的證件，所以移民署在通發出去的時候，要求他們就這方面提出他們的說法，針對這些說法，我昨天也特別到移民署聽移民署的簡報。根據簡報，在北、中、南一共6個移民署服務站，第一，現在進線的電話少很多，對於我們提出6+2這樣的態樣，大部分都了解。還有人用email方式或打電話過來問，我們都一一解釋清楚。","再來，委員提到對於一些來臺灣比較久、已經取得臺灣身分證的中配或陸配，是不是要再跟他們說明清楚……"],["張委員啓楷：93年3月1日以前。"],["劉部長世芳：對，但是我們可能會透過新住民協會的方式說明，也就是說到他們的家向他們說明。雖然沒有辦法一個一個說明，但是我們可以去他們比較常生活的區域，譬如說您昨天提的案例是在北三都，我就不特別說明是哪個地方，但我大概知道是哪一個地方。對於北三都有比較多中配居住的地方，移民署或其他中配福利權益團體會去跟他們說明清楚6+3的樣態是怎麼回事。"],["張委員啓楷：好，你要留點時間給我。很好，主動說明這點是對的，而且如果要根本解決問題，其實要如同我昨天提的，就是修法讓93年3月1日之前來臺定居者全部用具結……"],["劉部長世芳：但是目前……"],["張委員啓楷：沒關係，我希望你……"],["劉部長世芳：我也問過陸委會，到目前為止並沒有修法的需要。"],["張委員啓楷：有需要啊！民眾的反映、陳情就是這樣啊！而且是你們瀆職在前啊！"],["劉部長世芳：不是，我問過陸委會，對於93年以前的案例並沒有修法的需要。"],["張委員啓楷：你們瀆職21年，現在卻甩鍋，要陸配回大陸拿……"],["劉部長世芳：我們沒有甩鍋，應該說我們要加以清除，比較清楚一點。"],["張委員啓楷：但這是21年前沒做的啊！所以在法律上應該就是……政府存在的目的是服務人民嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["張委員啓楷：那你不要製造成擾民啊！部長，你要服務人民……"],["劉部長世芳：對，但是因應這樣的不便，我們已經跟委員解釋過，就是希望能夠到他們比較多人聚集的地方，向年老的媽媽或年輕但行動不方便的人說清楚是怎麼回事，如果真的是在法律上需要或樣態需要修正的話，我們可以根據這些資料修正。但是我昨天已經跟你報告過，從21日開始受理申請到現在，我們其實已經累積好幾百份意見，詢問的電話甚至一千多通，所以合乎大致上都能了解的程度。如果在我們匯集這些資料時還有對民眾不方便的地方，我們可以再檢討，但是這樣的檢討並未涉及陸委會的修法。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你現在提的方法就是把6類排除嘛！但我一直在跟你講……"],["劉部長世芳：是6加3。"],["張委員啓楷：把這6類排除沒辦法解決絕大部分人的困難，所以民眾黨會提出一項修法，就用時間點來劃分，只要民國93年3月1日之前來臺定居者全部用具結處理。第二，在此之後的就授權由陸委會跟內政部制定到底要怎麼把6大類再擴大。沒關係，我們會提案修法。","現在我們提的是另一個。我也肯定你們說要辦說明會，你們願意辦，這是很好的，可是我剛才點的是你舉了一個例子，說有人是媽媽特別幫他辦了大陸戶籍，但這只是一個個案啊！現在很多人根本是出生就沒有辦、一直到現在都沒辦，結果你們的移民署就變成擾民了。你們應該先釐清楚、先查過嘛！對不對？政府要先查過，如果確認民眾在大陸確實有戶籍，才能叫他去除籍嘛！結果不是，你們先把函丟出去，造成人家的困擾啊！這是烏龍啊！"],["劉部長世芳：我們是通知出去，請他來跟政府機關說明清楚，就這樣而已。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，將心比心啦！"],["劉部長世芳：我知道、我都了解。"],["張委員啓楷：如果你是那個陸配的孩子、你是二代，在大陸明明沒有戶籍啊！"],["劉部長世芳：我知道、我也有認識……"],["張委員啓楷：那收到這一張就是政府造成人家的困擾欸！你昨天道歉了嘛！但是道歉完還要補破網。"],["劉部長世芳：我們昨天講了，這就是不便的部分嘛！但面對不便的部分並不表示要違法嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：不是違法……"],["劉部長世芳：不便也要合法嘛！在公務系統的……"],["張委員啓楷：這件事情就是你造成了人民的不便嘛！而且是一個錯誤嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：我知道，沒人想當壞人啦！但是……"],["張委員啓楷：那你昨天道歉什麼？部長，你昨天為什麼道歉？"],["劉部長世芳：是因為不便所造成的困擾，但並不表示我們違法啊！我們還是合法。"],["張委員啓楷：什麼叫做不便跟困擾？明明是沒有的東西，怎麼可以寄通知給人家？"],["劉部長世芳：所以他要到我們移民署來具結，表明沒有這個東西。"],["張委員啓楷：他就沒有，為什麼要去具結？"],["劉部長世芳：不是啦！具結不是表示有……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，假設我本來就沒有大陸戶籍，你卻突然寄了個通知，而且你沒有自己清過一次，道歉完又不補破網，跟人家講不用回大陸，竟然還叫人家去具結喔？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們有清過一次，但是就是電子檔。我們是希望除了針對電子檔以外，目前針對一個團體：中華民國大陸災胞救濟總會所提供比較舊的資料，我們也在清查當中。我剛剛講過，對於不便所造成的困擾，我們確實需要改進，所以我昨天也趕快請移民署研究有什麼改進方案，能夠讓大家知道這件事是為了保障他在臺灣合法的公民權益，這是我們應該做的。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你道歉只道歉了一半欸！這件事情一開始，就是你們寄通知出去之前要先由移民署與陸委會清過，確認這個人到底有沒有大陸戶籍嘛！但你沒有做這件事，所以才須要道歉啊！現在已經寄出去了，就要趕快……所以我要求你1個禮拜內釐清楚，要嘛一通電話，要嘛就補寄一個函，跟他說「不好意思，我打擾你了」、「我弄錯了」，是不是？如我剛剛說的將心比心啊！如果是你的話，明明就沒有大陸戶籍……如果是你或者是我，接到這樣一個通知，搞不好就如我剛剛講的，所以你要趕快去補正啊！說明之前是我們政府的疏忽啊！這是第一個點。第二點可能更嚴重欸！你們4月2日就寄出，可能有些人已經回大陸去了啊！這個要不要國賠？要國賠嗎？你無緣無故叫我去大陸把戶籍移除掉，可是我從來都沒有啊！所以我回大陸之後又碰了一鼻子灰回來，我可以要求國賠嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，如果有這個個案的話，麻煩請給我們參考好嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：有喔？如果有這樣的個案可以要求國賠嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：不是，請給我們參考一下，我們看看如何補救或是補正，好嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：你要慎重考慮，因為都造成人民權利受損了。"],["劉部長世芳：跟國賠不一定有完全的關係，我昨天已經跟您說過了，不便並不表示一定違法，雖然有所不便，但是也要合法。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，第一，你已經道歉，然後對於要不要國賠，如果有個案，你會進行檢討。最大的問題還是在第二部分啦！"],["劉部長世芳：是不是涉及國賠請求時效需要法律認證，不是我們兩個說了就算。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我剛剛一直強調，明明應該是你清查過我有沒有大陸戶籍，有的話才要叫我去除籍，對不對？你現在造成人民的困擾，除了道歉之外，不用通知對方一下嗎？這是無妄之災，而且是政府造成的擾民不是嗎？有沒有？這是不是造成擾民？不然你到底道歉什麼啦？第二項你到底做不做？陸委會主委就說這是要做的啊！他們說應該1個禮拜內通知啊！難道沒有跟你們討論？"],["劉部長世芳：我已經回復過了……"],["張委員啓楷：所以你的意思是你不補寄函去更正嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我已經跟你回復過了，如果是造成不便的地方，我們在服務上會修正。但是無論從什麼樣的角度來看，就是要合法，我們是為了保障他在中華民國這個自由地區裡面的合法公民權益。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，他合法啊！他合乎你的規定。你叫他去除大陸籍，問題是他沒有啊！"],["劉部長世芳：不是，除籍跟具結中間就是有一個緩衝的角度……"],["張委員啓楷：他就沒有，是你出了一個通知叫他去做這件事情，你自己錯誤在先，不應該更正？"],["劉部長世芳：你不要把具結跟除籍兩件事情合在一起，完全不同啦！"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你一直在講合法，但他就沒有做，而且在你通知人家以後，他可能已經跑回大陸了，或者現在受到這個困擾，你是不是應該補正、要更正？你不用更正嗎？要不要更正？你給我一句話，你的意思是不更正喔？"],["劉部長世芳：我不了解委員所問的問題。我跟委員解釋過了，若有造成不方便的地方、需要說明，我們會去說明，但是無論怎麼樣，我們都是要保障他在臺灣為合法。更何況以前這些……"],["張委員啓楷：他們本來在大陸出生時就沒有戶籍啊！你怎麼一直講這個合法？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，行政程序上，不管是戶籍也好或什麼樣的證件，理論上都要到海基會公證、認證之後，我們才能確定、算成真正的公文書，這樣的過程確實不方便，但是因為不方便，我們也提出最後的服務方式，就是跟新住民權益委員會合作，再跟他們說明清楚，我們能做的儘量做。可是我還是要跟委員講，第一就是在兩岸人民關係條例的規範之下，我們一定希望他朝著合法、合規的方式處理。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你擾民，因為錯誤、烏龍造成人民的困擾……"],["劉部長世芳：我講得很清楚啊！"],["張委員啓楷：我的要求是你再補一個函去跟人家道歉，說對方沒有這個問題，對不對？而你現在是說要用另外一個方式、用說明會的方式喔？那你怎麼知道對方要來聽？人家那天有空可以聽你說明嗎？你寄了一個函、造成人家的困擾，那政府不就是要服務人民嗎？你們辦演講，因為人民是頭家，但頭家被你們寄了一個不實、不當的通知函，你們不用更正喔？"],["劉部長世芳：我們都是按照規定辦理的，委員！"],["張委員啓楷：這怎麼是按照規定？"],["劉部長世芳：你一直問我，我還是一直重複，無法回應啊！"],["張委員啓楷：好，OK，沒有關係，我昨天問過一次了，今天再問，有了一些進度嘛！不只是道歉，你也做了一部分，就是要去公開說明。現在顯然卡住一個很重要的點，連陸委會主委都認為應該補正、要更正，你現在卻不寄。沒關係，我們再進一步討論，這是連續劇，今天是第二集，我們要幫陸配和這些子女爭取到該有的權利嘛！而且這是政府自己瀆職、失職的大烏龍，當然要去補正。沒關係，我們第三集再繼續。部長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員。"],["張委員啓楷：看你們什麼時候要發更正函。"],["主席：請相關機關處理，因為這件事情確實也滿嚴重的，會後要積極溝通啦！這樣我們才不用花掉比較多會議時間。"],["張委員啓楷：這應該也可以全民公決啦！讓全民看看到底應不應該補發更正函。"],["主席：當然，還會有討論的機會，謝謝張啓楷委員。","下一位請葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","下一位請林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員不在。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答到此結束。","丁學忠委員、高金素梅委員、邱鎮軍委員、黃建賓委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄，並刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於1週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-13","speakers":["牛煦庭","林倩綺","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","麥玉珍","羅智強","徐欣瑩","翁曉玲","黃健豪","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","吳琪銘","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李坤城","吳沛憶","范雲","王鴻薇","張啓楷","丁學忠","邱鎮軍","黃建賓"],"page_start":181,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃健豪等16人\n擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條\n文修正草案」案；四、審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；五、\n審查委員賴士葆等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員牛\n煦庭等16人擬具「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員翁曉玲等16\n人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及\n第二十三條條文修正草案」案；九、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案；十、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、審查委員蘇巧慧\n等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；十二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「住宅法增訂\n第二十一條之一條文草案」案；十三、審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案；十四、審查委員李坤城等24人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案；十五、審查委員徐欣\n瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四\n條條文修正草案」案；十七、審查委員高金素梅等27人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案；十\n八、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法第二條條文修正草案」案；十九、審查委員\n吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員林倩綺\n等23人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1144101_00003"}}}