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187.912, \"end\": 188.033, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 188.033, \"end\": 188.633, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"豬\"}, {\"word\": \"肉\", \"start\": 188.633, \"end\": 188.993, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 188.993, \"end\": 189.113, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 189.113, \"end\": 189.294, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 189.294, \"end\": 190.254, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 190.254, \"end\": 190.755, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 190.755, \"end\": 190.975, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 190.975, \"end\": 191.516, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 191.516, \"end\": 192.256, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 192.256, \"end\": 192.356, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 192.356, \"end\": 192.557, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 203.186, \"end\": 203.326, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 203.326, \"end\": 203.726, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"萊\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 203.726, \"end\": 203.927, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 203.927, \"end\": 204.127, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"巴\", \"start\": 204.127, \"end\": 204.267, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"胺\", \"start\": 204.267, \"end\": 204.447, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 204.447, \"end\": 205.588, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"殘\"}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 205.588, \"end\": 205.908, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 205.908, \"end\": 206.229, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 206.229, \"end\": 206.489, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 206.489, \"end\": 206.729, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 206.729, \"end\": 206.889, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 206.889, \"end\": 207.23, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 207.23, \"end\": 207.25, \"score\": 0.634}]}, {\"start\": 210.373, \"end\": 218.102, \"text\": \"開發美國發芽的馬鈴薯要進口然後要取消服務貿易限制取消投資限制等等\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 210.373, \"end\": 210.934, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"芽\", \"start\": 210.934, \"end\": 211.134, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 211.134, \"end\": 211.835, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"鈴\"}, {\"word\": \"薯\", \"start\": 211.835, \"end\": 211.995, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 211.995, \"end\": 212.395, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 212.395, \"end\": 212.836, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 212.836, \"end\": 212.936, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 212.936, \"end\": 213.056, \"score\": 0.578}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 213.056, \"end\": 213.276, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 213.276, \"end\": 213.537, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 213.537, \"end\": 214.418, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 214.418, \"end\": 214.958, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"貿\"}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 214.958, \"end\": 215.199, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 215.199, \"end\": 215.499, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 215.499, \"end\": 216.1, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 216.1, \"end\": 216.46, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 216.46, \"end\": 216.781, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 216.781, \"end\": 217.381, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 217.381, \"end\": 217.662, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 217.662, \"end\": 217.862, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 217.862, \"end\": 218.082, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 218.082, \"end\": 218.102, \"score\": 0.508}]}, {\"start\": 219.408, \"end\": 241.062, \"text\": \"這麼樣一來台灣的產業還有人民的健康將何去何從呢?880億的進水撲滅的了美國對等關稅跟貿易障礙所燒起來的大火嗎?我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略看一下這五個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 219.408, \"end\": 219.769, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 219.769, \"end\": 220.069, \"score\": 0.584}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 220.069, \"end\": 220.749, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 220.749, \"end\": 220.869, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 220.869, \"end\": 221.009, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 221.009, \"end\": 221.129, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.129, \"end\": 221.29, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 221.29, \"end\": 221.53, \"score\": 0.79}, 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{\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 240.682, \"end\": 241.042, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 241.042, \"end\": 241.062, \"score\": 0.23}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 242.964, \"end\": 248.206, \"text\": \"12345是我們賴總統他已經跟美國說他準備這麼樣的做還沒有跟我們大家全民討論他就已經公開的在媒體上這樣說了然後我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略去迎合川普川普他也不見得會滿意我們看一下越南\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 242.964, \"end\": 243.164, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 243.164, \"end\": 243.184, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 243.184, \"end\": 243.324, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 243.324, \"end\": 243.344, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 243.344, \"end\": 243.364, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 243.364, \"end\": 243.384, \"score\": 0.0}, 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00:00:28,294\n謝謝周圍大家都辛苦了到現在大家還沒有休息但是為了國人的健康我覺得我們應該是要很嚴肅跟非常辛苦在這邊都是為了國人的健康來把關的4月2號美國總統川普他向全世界宣布要徵收對等關稅而我們的賴清德總統在4月6號的時候他就宣布了要以五項策略來應變請大家看一下\n\n2\n00:00:29,275 --> 00:00:43,827\n我想這五大策略的應變所以才是我們今天未還安排這樣的議題顯然是因為賴總統他宣布的這五大策略提到了零關稅和排除所謂的非關稅貿易障礙所以我要請衛福部的部長還有農業部的常務次長經濟部的政務次長以及行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表一起上台\n\n3\n00:01:02,933 --> 00:01:31,660\n我從2021年我就一直開始對於美國所謂的貿易障礙評估報告的台灣這個部分我不斷的就提出來我們的政府我警告我們的政府特別是美國他指責我們對於豬肉的標示還有牛角肉的進口還有非基改食品進入校園這些嚴格把關的政策他們說是不科學的貿易障礙\n\n4\n00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:58,134\n在這裡我要請台上以及台下的各位官員還有媒體朋友們注意一下貿易障礙是美國政府他用的用語而我們應該要把這些長年以來我們堅持的稱為貿易自保措施因為呢這些措施是為了要保護我們國內產業的利益還有人民的健康請問一下大家同意嗎部長\n\n5\n00:02:02,745 --> 00:02:24,054\n美國說是貿易障礙我們不可以跟他一起說這是貿易障礙啊我們應該說是貿易自保措施啊如果真的是站在全民的利益跟健康把關的話你同意嗎我非常敬佩我們的委員是說這些措施是為了保護國內利益跟人民的健康沒錯吧共同堅持的那最主要的名詞我們\n\n6\n00:02:25,414 --> 00:02:49,688\n也敬佩委員的智慧對很好所以你也同意嘛對不對我們民主大家都會來用這樣子的立場是同意的這樣子的所謂的貿易自保措施才是真正站在台灣人民的健康跟利益來把關啊因為有了這樣子我們才可以去談判啊對嗎好最近談到的對等關稅行政院用了一個字眼叫做極端情境\n\n7\n00:02:50,809 --> 00:02:54,414\n那我們現在就來看一下賴清德總統他如果要替美國掃除貿易障礙之後我們台灣會面對怎麼樣的極端情境有哪些來進口的美國稻米變成零關稅\n\n8\n00:03:07,752 --> 00:03:27,250\n進口的美國豬肉不但零關稅還必須取消標示然後牛角肉必須要開放進口並且要零關稅基改食品零關稅並且要開放進入校園取消美國農產品的萊克多巴胺和農藥殘留容許量的限制\n\n9\n00:03:30,373 --> 00:03:38,102\n開發美國發芽的馬鈴薯要進口然後要取消服務貿易限制取消投資限制等等\n\n10\n00:03:39,408 --> 00:04:01,062\n這麼樣一來台灣的產業還有人民的健康將何去何從呢?880億的進水撲滅的了美國對等關稅跟貿易障礙所燒起來的大火嗎?我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略看一下這五個\n\n11\n00:04:02,964 --> 00:04:08,206\n12345是我們賴總統他已經跟美國說他準備這麼樣的做還沒有跟我們大家全民討論他就已經公開的在媒體上這樣說了然後我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略去迎合川普川普他也不見得會滿意我們看一下越南\n\n12\n00:04:28,556 --> 00:04:33,240\n越南就是一個例子越南他也答應要零關稅開始來談判但是川普的貿易顧問納瓦羅他直接就講不夠因為美國對越南的貿易逆差還有1200億\n\n13\n00:04:44,990 --> 00:05:04,989\n越南還有非關稅的作弊行為請注意一下納瓦羅的用語他不是用障礙不是用產地而呢他用的是作弊行為就好像剛剛盧憲英委員說的他用那麼樣的詞彙來對待他的好朋友台灣\n\n14\n00:05:06,713 --> 00:05:23,142\n這根本就是漫天喊價的勒索嘛那我們要對美國這麼樣無底洞的勒索要照單全收嗎當然我談的是越南我現在跟你談的是日本日本在美國這一次對等關稅談判他是排第一順位\n\n15\n00:05:24,122 --> 00:05:38,537\n而日本首相石破茂20号他就说了我们不会在食品安全的问题上面妥协再讲一次我们不会在食品安全的问题上妥协那我们呢\n\n16\n00:05:39,810 --> 00:05:56,878\n我們是要把美國所謂的貿易障礙當作表忠的先例嗎我們是要全部取消呢還是為了國內產業的利益和人民的健康要跟石破茂首相那樣周旋到底絕對不妥協請問一下部長\n\n17\n00:06:02,096 --> 00:06:17,049\n我想我們對於人民的健康的維護食品安全的堅持這是絕對政府不會妥協的好很好講的跟石破茅一樣萬一沒有打到你怎麼辦萬一被妥協了你怎麼辦我們\n\n18\n00:06:19,802 --> 00:06:46,695\n不過所有的事情就是在這樣的原則之下我們還是像我們衛福部的角色就是專業的做科學的一個分析提供一個在那個按照國際的標準以及我們國人的飲食習慣的一個提供專業的意見給我們談判的一個團隊我從早上就一直聽到你在講科學這兩個字其實一講到科學我就頭皮發麻了\n\n19\n00:06:47,535 --> 00:06:47,936\n因為為什麼要在這邊提醒你因為\n\n20\n00:06:52,830 --> 00:07:17,549\n因為這個所謂的科學的重要性就是中美貿易倡議的良好法制作業這一章我相信你們都應該知道了有五個地方提到了科學而美國貿易障礙的評估報告在台灣這個部分當中美國他也指控我們沒有科學依據就有三個地方\n\n21\n00:07:18,510 --> 00:07:21,412\n而我曾經對陳建源院長也談過這個問題他說我們要按照科學依據尤其是美國的食品法典委員會CODES標準那請問一下我們還是按照這個標準嗎\n\n22\n00:07:38,901 --> 00:07:50,485\n就剛才提到的科學的標準的部分我們其實對於科學這一塊定下來以外另外配的是國人的飲食調查裡面的國人營養調查的數據會有國人的飲食的特殊性那我們的特殊性是什麼我們知道吃很多啊\n\n23\n00:08:02,989 --> 00:08:06,911\n所以這個東西都重新都算過了所以算完之後呢我們訂出來標準一直以來按照這個標準我們在邊境裡面查查所以你的科學所謂的科學是美國都接受的\n\n24\n00:08:19,355 --> 00:08:31,004\n我覺得它是Universal的是全世界都會共同認定這是可以的錯了你是食藥署對吧是的你知不知道歐盟它是拒絕基改食品它依據的是什麼它依據的是卡塔赫納生物安全議定書\n\n25\n00:08:38,290 --> 00:09:05,867\n這個也包括日本也用這個所謂的議定書來拒絕美國的基品食物然後進入到校園所以呢我今天為什麼要請三五位上來尤其是談判總代表處是吧嚴惠欣副總談判代表對吧好你是行政院經貿談判辦公室很重要是\n\n26\n00:09:07,148 --> 00:09:32,983\n那您認為您認為你們要怎麼樣在談判的過程捍衛堅持台灣人民的利益還有健康我想我們基本上我要講我們跟美國的談判不是只有專門只有談這個美豬美牛的議題然後我們基本還有什麼議題我想對等關稅的來人拿一下我們賴總統那個五個再放一下這個嗎\n\n27\n00:09:39,427 --> 00:09:51,318\n跟這個都有關係嗎對等關稅的來源確實就是來自於川普政府他們自己宣布對等關稅的背景是因為其他的關稅各國的關稅太高還有非關稅障礙還有匯率的問題以及各國還有一些境內稅這些貨物稅的問題\n\n28\n00:09:55,522 --> 00:10:08,950\n那是總結這些來說所以他希望各國要去看待他們自己國內是不是確實有這些美國所關切的所以談判應該是怎麼樣知己知彼對吧是談判最重要的是你是台灣的代表對吧\n\n29\n00:10:10,253 --> 00:10:26,491\n沒錯台灣是不是應該代表2300萬人民站在第一線捍衛我們的權益這是我們的責任好如果這一次沒有辦法捍衛到人民的健康跟利益你們該怎麼辦如何向國人交代我想我們一定距離一生\n\n30\n00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:51,512\n只有據理力爭嗎有任何的需要我想這個都需要朝野的共識所以我們一定會來爭取我們絕對是同意的啊我們絕對堅決站在你們的背後啊對謝謝委員絕對是啊但是我現在要講的是萬一今天達不到我們說的捍衛人民的利益跟健康該怎麼辦你們\n\n31\n00:10:53,880 --> 00:11:02,327\n我想國人的健康不會是談判的籌碼我們一定是這個是我們的基本立場好你能不能學剛剛那個部長一樣講的講得更清楚一點當你們去談判因為你們已經有視訊談判了嘛\n\n32\n00:11:11,455 --> 00:11:27,633\n因為我的總職群院長告訴我已經有視訊了然後近期馬上就會統整視訊談判當中所談到的問題然後直接的進入到核心來談判所以你們已經有一個想法了也有一個談判的要點跟籌碼了\n\n33\n00:11:32,287 --> 00:11:39,292\n我們現在正在統整各個還在統整啊還在統整縱使已經有了一次的這個所謂的這個視訊談判你們還正在統整視訊是交換讓大家增進了解我們也是要確認美國實際上視訊那請問會談判幾次這個完全是我們現在正在進行當中的議題幾次都不知道啊有沒有在你們的規劃當中\n\n34\n00:11:58,867 --> 00:12:27,426\n就是这个部分都是持续在进行的所以你们认为你们准备充分了吗我相信我们是广泛的去收集各种情资目的就是要让台湾的准备好如果今天我在这边全民都在看全民都在等召委特别安排了这一次的这个委员会让你们来做说明跟报告就是全民都认为这是非常严重的事情甚至于是台湾的国难\n\n35\n00:12:28,618 --> 00:12:41,251\n所以你們要秉持著跟石破茂一樣的精神告訴美國告訴他說人民的健康人民的利益是你們不允許被美國這樣子踐踏的可以嗎了解在這樣的基礎上面去談判可以嗎了解我們會我們會具體例證好我們都在等我們都在看謝謝好謝謝高靜雯\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3574\t28294\t謝謝周圍 大家都辛苦了到現在大家還沒有休息但是為了國人的健康我覺得我們應該是要很嚴肅跟非常辛苦在這邊都是為了國人的健康來把關的4月2號美國總統川普他向全世界宣布要徵收對等關稅而我們的賴清德總統在4月6號的時候他就宣布了要以五項策略來應變請大家看一下\n29275\t43827\t我想這五大策略的應變所以才是我們今天未還安排這樣的議題顯然是因為賴總統他宣布的這五大策略提到了零關稅和排除所謂的非關稅貿易障礙所以我要請衛福部的部長還有農業部的常務次長經濟部的政務次長以及行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表一起上台\n62933\t91660\t我從2021年我就一直開始對於美國所謂的貿易障礙評估報告的台灣這個部分我不斷的就提出來我們的政府我警告我們的政府特別是美國他指責我們對於豬肉的標示還有牛角肉的進口還有非基改食品進入校園這些嚴格把關的政策他們說是不科學的貿易障礙\n92640\t118134\t在這裡我要請台上以及台下的各位官員還有媒體朋友們注意一下貿易障礙是美國政府他用的用語而我們應該要把這些長年以來我們堅持的稱為貿易自保措施因為呢這些措施是為了要保護我們國內產業的利益還有人民的健康請問一下大家同意嗎部長\n122745\t144054\t美國說是貿易障礙我們不可以跟他一起說這是貿易障礙啊我們應該說是貿易自保措施啊如果真的是站在全民的利益跟健康把關的話你同意嗎我非常敬佩我們的委員是說這些措施是為了保護國內利益跟人民的健康 沒錯吧共同堅持的那最主要的名詞我們\n145414\t169688\t也敬佩委員的智慧對很好所以你也同意嘛對不對我們民主大家都會來用這樣子的立場是同意的這樣子的所謂的貿易自保措施才是真正站在台灣人民的健康跟利益來把關啊因為有了這樣子我們才可以去談判啊對嗎好最近談到的對等關稅行政院用了一個字眼叫做極端情境\n170809\t174414\t那我們現在就來看一下賴清德總統他如果要替美國掃除貿易障礙之後我們台灣會面對怎麼樣的極端情境有哪些來進口的美國稻米變成零關稅\n187752\t207250\t進口的美國豬肉不但零關稅還必須取消標示然後牛角肉必須要開放進口並且要零關稅基改食品零關稅並且要開放進入校園取消美國農產品的萊克多巴胺和農藥殘留容許量的限制\n210373\t218102\t開發美國發芽的馬鈴薯要進口然後要取消服務貿易限制取消投資限制等等\n219408\t241062\t這麼樣一來台灣的產業還有人民的健康將何去何從呢?880億的進水撲滅的了美國對等關稅跟貿易障礙所燒起來的大火嗎?我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略看一下這五個\n242964\t248206\t12345是我們賴總統他已經跟美國說他準備這麼樣的做還沒有跟我們大家全民討論他就已經公開的在媒體上這樣說了然後我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略去迎合川普川普他也不見得會滿意我們看一下越南\n268556\t273240\t越南就是一個例子越南他也答應要零關稅開始來談判但是川普的貿易顧問納瓦羅他直接就講不夠因為美國對越南的貿易逆差還有1200億\n284990\t304989\t越南還有非關稅的作弊行為請注意一下納瓦羅的用語他不是用障礙不是用產地而呢他用的是作弊行為就好像剛剛盧憲英委員說的他用那麼樣的詞彙來對待他的好朋友台灣\n306713\t323142\t這根本就是漫天喊價的勒索嘛那我們要對美國這麼樣無底洞的勒索要照單全收嗎當然我談的是越南我現在跟你談的是日本日本在美國這一次對等關稅談判他是排第一順位\n324122\t338537\t而日本首相石破茂20号他就说了我们不会在食品安全的问题上面妥协再讲一次我们不会在食品安全的问题上妥协那我们呢\n339810\t356878\t我們是要把美國所謂的貿易障礙當作表忠的先例嗎我們是要全部取消呢還是為了國內產業的利益和人民的健康要跟石破茂首相那樣周旋到底絕對不妥協請問一下 部長\n362096\t377049\t我想我們對於人民的健康的維護食品安全的堅持這是絕對政府不會妥協的好很好講的跟石破茅一樣萬一沒有打到你怎麼辦萬一被妥協了你怎麼辦我們\n379802\t406695\t不過所有的事情就是在這樣的原則之下我們還是像我們衛福部的角色就是專業的做科學的一個分析提供一個在那個按照國際的標準以及我們國人的飲食習慣的一個提供專業的意見給我們談判的一個團隊我從早上就一直聽到你在講科學這兩個字其實一講到科學我就頭皮發麻了\n407535\t407936\t因為為什麼要在這邊提醒你因為\n412830\t437549\t因為這個所謂的科學的重要性就是中美貿易倡議的良好法制作業這一章我相信你們都應該知道了有五個地方提到了科學而美國貿易障礙的評估報告在台灣這個部分當中美國他也指控我們沒有科學依據就有三個地方\n438510\t441412\t而我曾經對陳建源院長也談過這個問題他說我們要按照科學依據尤其是美國的食品法典委員會CODES標準那請問一下我們還是按照這個標準嗎\n458901\t470485\t就剛才提到的科學的標準的部分我們其實對於科學這一塊定下來以外另外配的是國人的飲食調查裡面的國人營養調查的數據會有國人的飲食的特殊性那我們的特殊性是什麼我們知道吃很多啊\n482989\t486911\t所以這個東西都重新都算過了所以算完之後呢我們訂出來標準一直以來按照這個標準我們在邊境裡面查查所以你的科學所謂的科學是美國都接受的\n499355\t511004\t我覺得它是Universal的是全世界都會共同認定這是可以的錯了 你是食藥署對吧是的 你知不知道歐盟它是拒絕基改食品它依據的是什麼它依據的是卡塔赫納生物安全議定書\n518290\t545867\t這個也包括日本也用這個所謂的議定書來拒絕美國的基品食物然後進入到校園所以呢我今天為什麼要請三五位上來尤其是談判總代表處是吧嚴惠欣副總談判代表對吧好你是行政院經貿談判辦公室很重要是\n547148\t572983\t那您認為您認為你們要怎麼樣在談判的過程捍衛堅持台灣人民的利益還有健康我想我們基本上我要講我們跟美國的談判不是只有專門只有談這個美豬美牛的議題然後我們基本還有什麼議題我想對等關稅的來人拿一下我們賴總統那個五個再放一下這個嗎\n579427\t591318\t跟這個都有關係嗎對等關稅的來源確實就是來自於川普政府他們自己宣布對等關稅的背景是因為其他的關稅各國的關稅太高還有非關稅障礙還有匯率的問題以及各國還有一些境內稅這些貨物稅的問題\n595522\t608950\t那是總結這些來說所以他希望各國要去看待他們自己國內是不是確實有這些美國所關切的所以談判應該是怎麼樣知己知彼對吧是談判最重要的是你是台灣的代表對吧\n610253\t626491\t沒錯台灣是不是應該代表2300萬人民站在第一線捍衛我們的權益這是我們的責任好如果這一次沒有辦法捍衛到人民的健康跟利益你們該怎麼辦如何向國人交代我想我們一定距離一生\n630180\t651512\t只有據理力爭嗎有任何的需要我想這個都需要朝野的共識所以我們一定會來爭取我們絕對是同意的啊我們絕對堅決站在你們的背後啊對謝謝委員絕對是啊但是我現在要講的是萬一今天達不到我們說的捍衛人民的利益跟健康該怎麼辦你們\n653880\t662327\t我想國人的健康不會是談判的籌碼我們一定是這個是我們的基本立場好 你能不能學剛剛那個部長一樣講的講得更清楚一點當你們去談判 因為你們已經有視訊談判了嘛\n671455\t687633\t因為我的總職群院長告訴我已經有視訊了然後近期馬上就會統整視訊談判當中所談到的問題然後直接的進入到核心來談判所以你們已經有一個想法了也有一個談判的要點跟籌碼了\n692287\t699292\t我們現在正在統整各個 還在統整啊還在統整 縱使已經有了一次的這個所謂的這個視訊談判 你們還正在統整視訊是交換 讓大家增進了解我們也是要確認美國實際上視訊 那請問會談判幾次這個完全是我們現在正在進行當中的議題幾次都不知道啊 有沒有在你們的規劃當中\n718867\t747426\t就是这个部分都是持续在进行的所以你们认为你们准备充分了吗我相信我们是广泛的去收集各种情资目的就是要让台湾的准备好如果今天我在这边全民都在看全民都在等召委特别安排了这一次的这个委员会让你们来做说明跟报告就是全民都认为这是非常严重的事情甚至于是台湾的国难\n748618\t761251\t所以你們要秉持著跟石破茂一樣的精神告訴美國告訴他說人民的健康人民的利益是你們不允許被美國這樣子踐踏的可以嗎了解在這樣的基礎上面去談判可以嗎了解我們會我們會具體例證好我們都在等我們都在看謝謝好謝謝高靜雯\n","txt":"謝謝周圍 大家都辛苦了到現在大家還沒有休息但是為了國人的健康我覺得我們應該是要很嚴肅跟非常辛苦在這邊都是為了國人的健康來把關的4月2號美國總統川普他向全世界宣布要徵收對等關稅而我們的賴清德總統在4月6號的時候他就宣布了要以五項策略來應變請大家看一下\n我想這五大策略的應變所以才是我們今天未還安排這樣的議題顯然是因為賴總統他宣布的這五大策略提到了零關稅和排除所謂的非關稅貿易障礙所以我要請衛福部的部長還有農業部的常務次長經濟部的政務次長以及行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表一起上台\n我從2021年我就一直開始對於美國所謂的貿易障礙評估報告的台灣這個部分我不斷的就提出來我們的政府我警告我們的政府特別是美國他指責我們對於豬肉的標示還有牛角肉的進口還有非基改食品進入校園這些嚴格把關的政策他們說是不科學的貿易障礙\n在這裡我要請台上以及台下的各位官員還有媒體朋友們注意一下貿易障礙是美國政府他用的用語而我們應該要把這些長年以來我們堅持的稱為貿易自保措施因為呢這些措施是為了要保護我們國內產業的利益還有人民的健康請問一下大家同意嗎部長\n美國說是貿易障礙我們不可以跟他一起說這是貿易障礙啊我們應該說是貿易自保措施啊如果真的是站在全民的利益跟健康把關的話你同意嗎我非常敬佩我們的委員是說這些措施是為了保護國內利益跟人民的健康 沒錯吧共同堅持的那最主要的名詞我們\n也敬佩委員的智慧對很好所以你也同意嘛對不對我們民主大家都會來用這樣子的立場是同意的這樣子的所謂的貿易自保措施才是真正站在台灣人民的健康跟利益來把關啊因為有了這樣子我們才可以去談判啊對嗎好最近談到的對等關稅行政院用了一個字眼叫做極端情境\n那我們現在就來看一下賴清德總統他如果要替美國掃除貿易障礙之後我們台灣會面對怎麼樣的極端情境有哪些來進口的美國稻米變成零關稅\n進口的美國豬肉不但零關稅還必須取消標示然後牛角肉必須要開放進口並且要零關稅基改食品零關稅並且要開放進入校園取消美國農產品的萊克多巴胺和農藥殘留容許量的限制\n開發美國發芽的馬鈴薯要進口然後要取消服務貿易限制取消投資限制等等\n這麼樣一來台灣的產業還有人民的健康將何去何從呢?880億的進水撲滅的了美國對等關稅跟貿易障礙所燒起來的大火嗎?我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略看一下這五個\n12345是我們賴總統他已經跟美國說他準備這麼樣的做還沒有跟我們大家全民討論他就已經公開的在媒體上這樣說了然後我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略去迎合川普川普他也不見得會滿意我們看一下越南\n越南就是一個例子越南他也答應要零關稅開始來談判但是川普的貿易顧問納瓦羅他直接就講不夠因為美國對越南的貿易逆差還有1200億\n越南還有非關稅的作弊行為請注意一下納瓦羅的用語他不是用障礙不是用產地而呢他用的是作弊行為就好像剛剛盧憲英委員說的他用那麼樣的詞彙來對待他的好朋友台灣\n這根本就是漫天喊價的勒索嘛那我們要對美國這麼樣無底洞的勒索要照單全收嗎當然我談的是越南我現在跟你談的是日本日本在美國這一次對等關稅談判他是排第一順位\n而日本首相石破茂20号他就说了我们不会在食品安全的问题上面妥协再讲一次我们不会在食品安全的问题上妥协那我们呢\n我們是要把美國所謂的貿易障礙當作表忠的先例嗎我們是要全部取消呢還是為了國內產業的利益和人民的健康要跟石破茂首相那樣周旋到底絕對不妥協請問一下 部長\n我想我們對於人民的健康的維護食品安全的堅持這是絕對政府不會妥協的好很好講的跟石破茅一樣萬一沒有打到你怎麼辦萬一被妥協了你怎麼辦我們\n不過所有的事情就是在這樣的原則之下我們還是像我們衛福部的角色就是專業的做科學的一個分析提供一個在那個按照國際的標準以及我們國人的飲食習慣的一個提供專業的意見給我們談判的一個團隊我從早上就一直聽到你在講科學這兩個字其實一講到科學我就頭皮發麻了\n因為為什麼要在這邊提醒你因為\n因為這個所謂的科學的重要性就是中美貿易倡議的良好法制作業這一章我相信你們都應該知道了有五個地方提到了科學而美國貿易障礙的評估報告在台灣這個部分當中美國他也指控我們沒有科學依據就有三個地方\n而我曾經對陳建源院長也談過這個問題他說我們要按照科學依據尤其是美國的食品法典委員會CODES標準那請問一下我們還是按照這個標準嗎\n就剛才提到的科學的標準的部分我們其實對於科學這一塊定下來以外另外配的是國人的飲食調查裡面的國人營養調查的數據會有國人的飲食的特殊性那我們的特殊性是什麼我們知道吃很多啊\n所以這個東西都重新都算過了所以算完之後呢我們訂出來標準一直以來按照這個標準我們在邊境裡面查查所以你的科學所謂的科學是美國都接受的\n我覺得它是Universal的是全世界都會共同認定這是可以的錯了 你是食藥署對吧是的 你知不知道歐盟它是拒絕基改食品它依據的是什麼它依據的是卡塔赫納生物安全議定書\n這個也包括日本也用這個所謂的議定書來拒絕美國的基品食物然後進入到校園所以呢我今天為什麼要請三五位上來尤其是談判總代表處是吧嚴惠欣副總談判代表對吧好你是行政院經貿談判辦公室很重要是\n那您認為您認為你們要怎麼樣在談判的過程捍衛堅持台灣人民的利益還有健康我想我們基本上我要講我們跟美國的談判不是只有專門只有談這個美豬美牛的議題然後我們基本還有什麼議題我想對等關稅的來人拿一下我們賴總統那個五個再放一下這個嗎\n跟這個都有關係嗎對等關稅的來源確實就是來自於川普政府他們自己宣布對等關稅的背景是因為其他的關稅各國的關稅太高還有非關稅障礙還有匯率的問題以及各國還有一些境內稅這些貨物稅的問題\n那是總結這些來說所以他希望各國要去看待他們自己國內是不是確實有這些美國所關切的所以談判應該是怎麼樣知己知彼對吧是談判最重要的是你是台灣的代表對吧\n沒錯台灣是不是應該代表2300萬人民站在第一線捍衛我們的權益這是我們的責任好如果這一次沒有辦法捍衛到人民的健康跟利益你們該怎麼辦如何向國人交代我想我們一定距離一生\n只有據理力爭嗎有任何的需要我想這個都需要朝野的共識所以我們一定會來爭取我們絕對是同意的啊我們絕對堅決站在你們的背後啊對謝謝委員絕對是啊但是我現在要講的是萬一今天達不到我們說的捍衛人民的利益跟健康該怎麼辦你們\n我想國人的健康不會是談判的籌碼我們一定是這個是我們的基本立場好 你能不能學剛剛那個部長一樣講的講得更清楚一點當你們去談判 因為你們已經有視訊談判了嘛\n因為我的總職群院長告訴我已經有視訊了然後近期馬上就會統整視訊談判當中所談到的問題然後直接的進入到核心來談判所以你們已經有一個想法了也有一個談判的要點跟籌碼了\n我們現在正在統整各個 還在統整啊還在統整 縱使已經有了一次的這個所謂的這個視訊談判 你們還正在統整視訊是交換 讓大家增進了解我們也是要確認美國實際上視訊 那請問會談判幾次這個完全是我們現在正在進行當中的議題幾次都不知道啊 有沒有在你們的規劃當中\n就是这个部分都是持续在进行的所以你们认为你们准备充分了吗我相信我们是广泛的去收集各种情资目的就是要让台湾的准备好如果今天我在这边全民都在看全民都在等召委特别安排了这一次的这个委员会让你们来做说明跟报告就是全民都认为这是非常严重的事情甚至于是台湾的国难\n所以你們要秉持著跟石破茂一樣的精神告訴美國告訴他說人民的健康人民的利益是你們不允許被美國這樣子踐踏的可以嗎了解在這樣的基礎上面去談判可以嗎了解我們會我們會具體例證好我們都在等我們都在看謝謝好謝謝高靜雯\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.574 --> 00:28.294\n謝謝周圍大家都辛苦了到現在大家還沒有休息但是為了國人的健康我覺得我們應該是要很嚴肅跟非常辛苦在這邊都是為了國人的健康來把關的4月2號美國總統川普他向全世界宣布要徵收對等關稅而我們的賴清德總統在4月6號的時候他就宣布了要以五項策略來應變請大家看一下\n\n00:29.275 --> 00:43.827\n我想這五大策略的應變所以才是我們今天未還安排這樣的議題顯然是因為賴總統他宣布的這五大策略提到了零關稅和排除所謂的非關稅貿易障礙所以我要請衛福部的部長還有農業部的常務次長經濟部的政務次長以及行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表一起上台\n\n01:02.933 --> 01:31.660\n我從2021年我就一直開始對於美國所謂的貿易障礙評估報告的台灣這個部分我不斷的就提出來我們的政府我警告我們的政府特別是美國他指責我們對於豬肉的標示還有牛角肉的進口還有非基改食品進入校園這些嚴格把關的政策他們說是不科學的貿易障礙\n\n01:32.640 --> 01:58.134\n在這裡我要請台上以及台下的各位官員還有媒體朋友們注意一下貿易障礙是美國政府他用的用語而我們應該要把這些長年以來我們堅持的稱為貿易自保措施因為呢這些措施是為了要保護我們國內產業的利益還有人民的健康請問一下大家同意嗎部長\n\n02:02.745 --> 02:24.054\n美國說是貿易障礙我們不可以跟他一起說這是貿易障礙啊我們應該說是貿易自保措施啊如果真的是站在全民的利益跟健康把關的話你同意嗎我非常敬佩我們的委員是說這些措施是為了保護國內利益跟人民的健康沒錯吧共同堅持的那最主要的名詞我們\n\n02:25.414 --> 02:49.688\n也敬佩委員的智慧對很好所以你也同意嘛對不對我們民主大家都會來用這樣子的立場是同意的這樣子的所謂的貿易自保措施才是真正站在台灣人民的健康跟利益來把關啊因為有了這樣子我們才可以去談判啊對嗎好最近談到的對等關稅行政院用了一個字眼叫做極端情境\n\n02:50.809 --> 02:54.414\n那我們現在就來看一下賴清德總統他如果要替美國掃除貿易障礙之後我們台灣會面對怎麼樣的極端情境有哪些來進口的美國稻米變成零關稅\n\n03:07.752 --> 03:27.250\n進口的美國豬肉不但零關稅還必須取消標示然後牛角肉必須要開放進口並且要零關稅基改食品零關稅並且要開放進入校園取消美國農產品的萊克多巴胺和農藥殘留容許量的限制\n\n03:30.373 --> 03:38.102\n開發美國發芽的馬鈴薯要進口然後要取消服務貿易限制取消投資限制等等\n\n03:39.408 --> 04:01.062\n這麼樣一來台灣的產業還有人民的健康將何去何從呢?880億的進水撲滅的了美國對等關稅跟貿易障礙所燒起來的大火嗎?我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略看一下這五個\n\n04:02.964 --> 04:08.206\n12345是我們賴總統他已經跟美國說他準備這麼樣的做還沒有跟我們大家全民討論他就已經公開的在媒體上這樣說了然後我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略去迎合川普川普他也不見得會滿意我們看一下越南\n\n04:28.556 --> 04:33.240\n越南就是一個例子越南他也答應要零關稅開始來談判但是川普的貿易顧問納瓦羅他直接就講不夠因為美國對越南的貿易逆差還有1200億\n\n04:44.990 --> 05:04.989\n越南還有非關稅的作弊行為請注意一下納瓦羅的用語他不是用障礙不是用產地而呢他用的是作弊行為就好像剛剛盧憲英委員說的他用那麼樣的詞彙來對待他的好朋友台灣\n\n05:06.713 --> 05:23.142\n這根本就是漫天喊價的勒索嘛那我們要對美國這麼樣無底洞的勒索要照單全收嗎當然我談的是越南我現在跟你談的是日本日本在美國這一次對等關稅談判他是排第一順位\n\n05:24.122 --> 05:38.537\n而日本首相石破茂20号他就说了我们不会在食品安全的问题上面妥协再讲一次我们不会在食品安全的问题上妥协那我们呢\n\n05:39.810 --> 05:56.878\n我們是要把美國所謂的貿易障礙當作表忠的先例嗎我們是要全部取消呢還是為了國內產業的利益和人民的健康要跟石破茂首相那樣周旋到底絕對不妥協請問一下部長\n\n06:02.096 --> 06:17.049\n我想我們對於人民的健康的維護食品安全的堅持這是絕對政府不會妥協的好很好講的跟石破茅一樣萬一沒有打到你怎麼辦萬一被妥協了你怎麼辦我們\n\n06:19.802 --> 06:46.695\n不過所有的事情就是在這樣的原則之下我們還是像我們衛福部的角色就是專業的做科學的一個分析提供一個在那個按照國際的標準以及我們國人的飲食習慣的一個提供專業的意見給我們談判的一個團隊我從早上就一直聽到你在講科學這兩個字其實一講到科學我就頭皮發麻了\n\n06:47.535 --> 06:47.936\n因為為什麼要在這邊提醒你因為\n\n06:52.830 --> 07:17.549\n因為這個所謂的科學的重要性就是中美貿易倡議的良好法制作業這一章我相信你們都應該知道了有五個地方提到了科學而美國貿易障礙的評估報告在台灣這個部分當中美國他也指控我們沒有科學依據就有三個地方\n\n07:18.510 --> 07:21.412\n而我曾經對陳建源院長也談過這個問題他說我們要按照科學依據尤其是美國的食品法典委員會CODES標準那請問一下我們還是按照這個標準嗎\n\n07:38.901 --> 07:50.485\n就剛才提到的科學的標準的部分我們其實對於科學這一塊定下來以外另外配的是國人的飲食調查裡面的國人營養調查的數據會有國人的飲食的特殊性那我們的特殊性是什麼我們知道吃很多啊\n\n08:02.989 --> 08:06.911\n所以這個東西都重新都算過了所以算完之後呢我們訂出來標準一直以來按照這個標準我們在邊境裡面查查所以你的科學所謂的科學是美國都接受的\n\n08:19.355 --> 08:31.004\n我覺得它是Universal的是全世界都會共同認定這是可以的錯了你是食藥署對吧是的你知不知道歐盟它是拒絕基改食品它依據的是什麼它依據的是卡塔赫納生物安全議定書\n\n08:38.290 --> 09:05.867\n這個也包括日本也用這個所謂的議定書來拒絕美國的基品食物然後進入到校園所以呢我今天為什麼要請三五位上來尤其是談判總代表處是吧嚴惠欣副總談判代表對吧好你是行政院經貿談判辦公室很重要是\n\n09:07.148 --> 09:32.983\n那您認為您認為你們要怎麼樣在談判的過程捍衛堅持台灣人民的利益還有健康我想我們基本上我要講我們跟美國的談判不是只有專門只有談這個美豬美牛的議題然後我們基本還有什麼議題我想對等關稅的來人拿一下我們賴總統那個五個再放一下這個嗎\n\n09:39.427 --> 09:51.318\n跟這個都有關係嗎對等關稅的來源確實就是來自於川普政府他們自己宣布對等關稅的背景是因為其他的關稅各國的關稅太高還有非關稅障礙還有匯率的問題以及各國還有一些境內稅這些貨物稅的問題\n\n09:55.522 --> 10:08.950\n那是總結這些來說所以他希望各國要去看待他們自己國內是不是確實有這些美國所關切的所以談判應該是怎麼樣知己知彼對吧是談判最重要的是你是台灣的代表對吧\n\n10:10.253 --> 10:26.491\n沒錯台灣是不是應該代表2300萬人民站在第一線捍衛我們的權益這是我們的責任好如果這一次沒有辦法捍衛到人民的健康跟利益你們該怎麼辦如何向國人交代我想我們一定距離一生\n\n10:30.180 --> 10:51.512\n只有據理力爭嗎有任何的需要我想這個都需要朝野的共識所以我們一定會來爭取我們絕對是同意的啊我們絕對堅決站在你們的背後啊對謝謝委員絕對是啊但是我現在要講的是萬一今天達不到我們說的捍衛人民的利益跟健康該怎麼辦你們\n\n10:53.880 --> 11:02.327\n我想國人的健康不會是談判的籌碼我們一定是這個是我們的基本立場好你能不能學剛剛那個部長一樣講的講得更清楚一點當你們去談判因為你們已經有視訊談判了嘛\n\n11:11.455 --> 11:27.633\n因為我的總職群院長告訴我已經有視訊了然後近期馬上就會統整視訊談判當中所談到的問題然後直接的進入到核心來談判所以你們已經有一個想法了也有一個談判的要點跟籌碼了\n\n11:32.287 --> 11:39.292\n我們現在正在統整各個還在統整啊還在統整縱使已經有了一次的這個所謂的這個視訊談判你們還正在統整視訊是交換讓大家增進了解我們也是要確認美國實際上視訊那請問會談判幾次這個完全是我們現在正在進行當中的議題幾次都不知道啊有沒有在你們的規劃當中\n\n11:58.867 --> 12:27.426\n就是这个部分都是持续在进行的所以你们认为你们准备充分了吗我相信我们是广泛的去收集各种情资目的就是要让台湾的准备好如果今天我在这边全民都在看全民都在等召委特别安排了这一次的这个委员会让你们来做说明跟报告就是全民都认为这是非常严重的事情甚至于是台湾的国难\n\n12:28.618 --> 12:41.251\n所以你們要秉持著跟石破茂一樣的精神告訴美國告訴他說人民的健康人民的利益是你們不允許被美國這樣子踐踏的可以嗎了解在這樣的基礎上面去談判可以嗎了解我們會我們會具體例證好我們都在等我們都在看謝謝好謝謝高靜雯\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.574,"end":28.294,"text":"謝謝周圍 大家都辛苦了到現在大家還沒有休息但是為了國人的健康我覺得我們應該是要很嚴肅跟非常辛苦在這邊都是為了國人的健康來把關的4月2號美國總統川普他向全世界宣布要徵收對等關稅而我們的賴清德總統在4月6號的時候他就宣布了要以五項策略來應變請大家看一下"},{"start":29.275,"end":43.827,"text":"我想這五大策略的應變所以才是我們今天未還安排這樣的議題顯然是因為賴總統他宣布的這五大策略提到了零關稅和排除所謂的非關稅貿易障礙所以我要請衛福部的部長還有農業部的常務次長經濟部的政務次長以及行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表一起上台"},{"start":62.933,"end":91.66,"text":"我從2021年我就一直開始對於美國所謂的貿易障礙評估報告的台灣這個部分我不斷的就提出來我們的政府我警告我們的政府特別是美國他指責我們對於豬肉的標示還有牛角肉的進口還有非基改食品進入校園這些嚴格把關的政策他們說是不科學的貿易障礙"},{"start":92.64,"end":118.134,"text":"在這裡我要請台上以及台下的各位官員還有媒體朋友們注意一下貿易障礙是美國政府他用的用語而我們應該要把這些長年以來我們堅持的稱為貿易自保措施因為呢這些措施是為了要保護我們國內產業的利益還有人民的健康請問一下大家同意嗎部長"},{"start":122.745,"end":144.054,"text":"美國說是貿易障礙我們不可以跟他一起說這是貿易障礙啊我們應該說是貿易自保措施啊如果真的是站在全民的利益跟健康把關的話你同意嗎我非常敬佩我們的委員是說這些措施是為了保護國內利益跟人民的健康 沒錯吧共同堅持的那最主要的名詞我們"},{"start":145.414,"end":169.688,"text":"也敬佩委員的智慧對很好所以你也同意嘛對不對我們民主大家都會來用這樣子的立場是同意的這樣子的所謂的貿易自保措施才是真正站在台灣人民的健康跟利益來把關啊因為有了這樣子我們才可以去談判啊對嗎好最近談到的對等關稅行政院用了一個字眼叫做極端情境"},{"start":170.809,"end":174.414,"text":"那我們現在就來看一下賴清德總統他如果要替美國掃除貿易障礙之後我們台灣會面對怎麼樣的極端情境有哪些來進口的美國稻米變成零關稅"},{"start":187.752,"end":207.25,"text":"進口的美國豬肉不但零關稅還必須取消標示然後牛角肉必須要開放進口並且要零關稅基改食品零關稅並且要開放進入校園取消美國農產品的萊克多巴胺和農藥殘留容許量的限制"},{"start":210.373,"end":218.102,"text":"開發美國發芽的馬鈴薯要進口然後要取消服務貿易限制取消投資限制等等"},{"start":219.408,"end":241.062,"text":"這麼樣一來台灣的產業還有人民的健康將何去何從呢?880億的進水撲滅的了美國對等關稅跟貿易障礙所燒起來的大火嗎?我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略看一下這五個"},{"start":242.964,"end":248.206,"text":"12345是我們賴總統他已經跟美國說他準備這麼樣的做還沒有跟我們大家全民討論他就已經公開的在媒體上這樣說了然後我要問一個更尖銳的問題就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略去迎合川普川普他也不見得會滿意我們看一下越南"},{"start":268.556,"end":273.24,"text":"越南就是一個例子越南他也答應要零關稅開始來談判但是川普的貿易顧問納瓦羅他直接就講不夠因為美國對越南的貿易逆差還有1200億"},{"start":284.99,"end":304.989,"text":"越南還有非關稅的作弊行為請注意一下納瓦羅的用語他不是用障礙不是用產地而呢他用的是作弊行為就好像剛剛盧憲英委員說的他用那麼樣的詞彙來對待他的好朋友台灣"},{"start":306.713,"end":323.142,"text":"這根本就是漫天喊價的勒索嘛那我們要對美國這麼樣無底洞的勒索要照單全收嗎當然我談的是越南我現在跟你談的是日本日本在美國這一次對等關稅談判他是排第一順位"},{"start":324.122,"end":338.537,"text":"而日本首相石破茂20号他就说了我们不会在食品安全的问题上面妥协再讲一次我们不会在食品安全的问题上妥协那我们呢"},{"start":339.81,"end":356.878,"text":"我們是要把美國所謂的貿易障礙當作表忠的先例嗎我們是要全部取消呢還是為了國內產業的利益和人民的健康要跟石破茂首相那樣周旋到底絕對不妥協請問一下 部長"},{"start":362.096,"end":377.049,"text":"我想我們對於人民的健康的維護食品安全的堅持這是絕對政府不會妥協的好很好講的跟石破茅一樣萬一沒有打到你怎麼辦萬一被妥協了你怎麼辦我們"},{"start":379.802,"end":406.695,"text":"不過所有的事情就是在這樣的原則之下我們還是像我們衛福部的角色就是專業的做科學的一個分析提供一個在那個按照國際的標準以及我們國人的飲食習慣的一個提供專業的意見給我們談判的一個團隊我從早上就一直聽到你在講科學這兩個字其實一講到科學我就頭皮發麻了"},{"start":407.535,"end":407.936,"text":"因為為什麼要在這邊提醒你因為"},{"start":412.83,"end":437.549,"text":"因為這個所謂的科學的重要性就是中美貿易倡議的良好法制作業這一章我相信你們都應該知道了有五個地方提到了科學而美國貿易障礙的評估報告在台灣這個部分當中美國他也指控我們沒有科學依據就有三個地方"},{"start":438.51,"end":441.412,"text":"而我曾經對陳建源院長也談過這個問題他說我們要按照科學依據尤其是美國的食品法典委員會CODES標準那請問一下我們還是按照這個標準嗎"},{"start":458.901,"end":470.485,"text":"就剛才提到的科學的標準的部分我們其實對於科學這一塊定下來以外另外配的是國人的飲食調查裡面的國人營養調查的數據會有國人的飲食的特殊性那我們的特殊性是什麼我們知道吃很多啊"},{"start":482.989,"end":486.911,"text":"所以這個東西都重新都算過了所以算完之後呢我們訂出來標準一直以來按照這個標準我們在邊境裡面查查所以你的科學所謂的科學是美國都接受的"},{"start":499.355,"end":511.004,"text":"我覺得它是Universal的是全世界都會共同認定這是可以的錯了 你是食藥署對吧是的 你知不知道歐盟它是拒絕基改食品它依據的是什麼它依據的是卡塔赫納生物安全議定書"},{"start":518.29,"end":545.867,"text":"這個也包括日本也用這個所謂的議定書來拒絕美國的基品食物然後進入到校園所以呢我今天為什麼要請三五位上來尤其是談判總代表處是吧嚴惠欣副總談判代表對吧好你是行政院經貿談判辦公室很重要是"},{"start":547.148,"end":572.983,"text":"那您認為您認為你們要怎麼樣在談判的過程捍衛堅持台灣人民的利益還有健康我想我們基本上我要講我們跟美國的談判不是只有專門只有談這個美豬美牛的議題然後我們基本還有什麼議題我想對等關稅的來人拿一下我們賴總統那個五個再放一下這個嗎"},{"start":579.427,"end":591.318,"text":"跟這個都有關係嗎對等關稅的來源確實就是來自於川普政府他們自己宣布對等關稅的背景是因為其他的關稅各國的關稅太高還有非關稅障礙還有匯率的問題以及各國還有一些境內稅這些貨物稅的問題"},{"start":595.522,"end":608.95,"text":"那是總結這些來說所以他希望各國要去看待他們自己國內是不是確實有這些美國所關切的所以談判應該是怎麼樣知己知彼對吧是談判最重要的是你是台灣的代表對吧"},{"start":610.253,"end":626.491,"text":"沒錯台灣是不是應該代表2300萬人民站在第一線捍衛我們的權益這是我們的責任好如果這一次沒有辦法捍衛到人民的健康跟利益你們該怎麼辦如何向國人交代我想我們一定距離一生"},{"start":630.18,"end":651.512,"text":"只有據理力爭嗎有任何的需要我想這個都需要朝野的共識所以我們一定會來爭取我們絕對是同意的啊我們絕對堅決站在你們的背後啊對謝謝委員絕對是啊但是我現在要講的是萬一今天達不到我們說的捍衛人民的利益跟健康該怎麼辦你們"},{"start":653.88,"end":662.327,"text":"我想國人的健康不會是談判的籌碼我們一定是這個是我們的基本立場好 你能不能學剛剛那個部長一樣講的講得更清楚一點當你們去談判 因為你們已經有視訊談判了嘛"},{"start":671.455,"end":687.633,"text":"因為我的總職群院長告訴我已經有視訊了然後近期馬上就會統整視訊談判當中所談到的問題然後直接的進入到核心來談判所以你們已經有一個想法了也有一個談判的要點跟籌碼了"},{"start":692.287,"end":699.292,"text":"我們現在正在統整各個 還在統整啊還在統整 縱使已經有了一次的這個所謂的這個視訊談判 你們還正在統整視訊是交換 讓大家增進了解我們也是要確認美國實際上視訊 那請問會談判幾次這個完全是我們現在正在進行當中的議題幾次都不知道啊 有沒有在你們的規劃當中"},{"start":718.867,"end":747.426,"text":"就是这个部分都是持续在进行的所以你们认为你们准备充分了吗我相信我们是广泛的去收集各种情资目的就是要让台湾的准备好如果今天我在这边全民都在看全民都在等召委特别安排了这一次的这个委员会让你们来做说明跟报告就是全民都认为这是非常严重的事情甚至于是台湾的国难"},{"start":748.618,"end":761.251,"text":"所以你們要秉持著跟石破茂一樣的精神告訴美國告訴他說人民的健康人民的利益是你們不允許被美國這樣子踐踏的可以嗎了解在這樣的基礎上面去談判可以嗎了解我們會我們會具體例證好我們都在等我們都在看謝謝好謝謝高靜雯"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1069,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（12時50分）謝謝召委，大家都辛苦了，到現在還沒有休息，但是為了國人的健康，我覺得我們應該要很嚴肅，非常辛苦在這邊都是為了國人的健康來把關。4月2日美國總統川普向全世界宣布要徵收對等關稅，而我們的賴清德總統則在4月6日的時候就宣布了要以五項策略來應變，請大家看一下。我想今天衛環安排這樣的議題，顯然是因為賴總統宣布的這五大策略提到了零關稅和排除所謂的非關稅貿易障礙，所以我要請衛福部的部長，還有農業部的常務次長、經濟部的政務次長，以及行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表一起上臺。","我從2021年開始，對於美國的貿易障礙評估報告的臺灣這個部分，我就不斷地提出來，我警告我們的政府，特別是美國指責我們對於豬肉的標示、牛絞肉的進口及非基改食品進入校園這些嚴格把關的政策，他們說是不科學的貿易障礙，在這裡我要請臺上以及臺下的各位官員還有媒體朋友們注意一下，「貿易障礙」是美國政府的用語，而我們應該要把這些長年以來的堅持稱為「貿易自保措施」，因為這些措施是為了要保護我們國內產業的利益還有人民的健康，請問一下，大家同意嗎？部長，美國說是貿易障礙，我們不可以跟著它一起說這是貿易障礙啊！我們應該說是貿易自保措施啊！如果真的是站在全民的利益跟健康把關的話，你同意嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我非常敬佩委員，這些措施是為了保護國內產業的利益跟人民的健康……"],["高金委員素梅：對，沒錯吧？"],["邱部長泰源：這是我們共同堅持的。"],["高金委員素梅：好，很好。"],["邱部長泰源：至於用怎麼樣的名詞，我們也敬佩委員的智慧，我們來……"],["高金委員素梅：對，很好，所以你也同意嘛！對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：那個名詞大家可以來用一個最適當的……"],["高金委員素梅：這樣子的立場是同意的，所謂的貿易自保措施才是真正站在臺灣人民的健康跟利益來把關啊！因為有了這樣子，我們才可以去談判啊！對嗎？","好，最近談到的對等關稅，行政院用了一個字眼叫做「極端情境」，我們現在就來看一下，賴清德總統他如果要替美國掃除貿易障礙之後，我們臺灣會面對怎麼樣的極端情境？有哪些？來，進口的美國稻米變成零關稅；進口的美國豬肉不但零關稅，還必須取消標示；牛絞肉必須要開放進口，並且要零關稅；基改食品零關稅，並且要開放進入校園；取消美國農產品的萊克多巴胺和農藥殘留容許量的限制；開放美國發芽的馬鈴薯進口，然後要取消服務貿易限制、取消投資限制等等，這麼一來，臺灣的產業還有人民的健康將何去何從呢？880億的近水撲滅得了美國對等關稅與貿易障礙所燒起來的大火嗎？我要問一個更尖銳的問題，就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略，看一下這五個，一、二、三、四、五是我們賴總統，他已經跟美國說他準備這麼樣的做，還沒有跟我們大家全民討論喔，他就已經公開的在媒體上這樣說了。然後我要問一個更尖銳的問題，就是政府就算是用這種還沒有談判就先亮底牌的策略去迎合川普，川普他也不見得會滿意啊，我們看一下越南，越南就是一個例子，越南也答應要零關稅開始來談判，但是川普的貿易顧問納瓦羅直接就講說不夠，因為美國對越南的貿易逆差還有1,200億，越南還有非關稅的作弊行為，請注意一下納瓦羅的用語，他不是用障礙，不是用產地，他用的是作弊行為，就好像剛剛盧縣一委員說的，他用那麼樣的詞彙來對待他的好朋友──臺灣，這根本就是漫天喊價的勒索嘛！我們對美國這麼樣無底洞的勒索要照單全收嗎？當然，我談的是越南。","我現在要跟你談的是日本，日本在美國這一次對等關稅談判，它是排第一順位，而日本首相石破茂20號就說了「我們不會在食品安全的問題上面妥協」，再講一次，他說「我們不會在食品安全的問題上妥協」，那我們呢？我們是要把美國所謂的貿易障礙當作表忠的獻禮嗎？我們是要全部取消呢？還是為了國內產業的利益和人民的健康，要跟石破茂首相那樣周旋到底，絕對不妥協？請問一下部長。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，我想我們對於人民健康的維護、食品安全的堅持，這是政府絕對不會妥協的。"],["高金委員素梅：很好，你講的跟石破茂一樣，但萬一沒有達到你怎麼辦？萬一被妥協了你怎麼辦？"],["邱部長泰源：不過所有的事情，就是在這樣的原則之下，我們還是……像我們衛福部的角色就是專業的、做科學的分析，提供一個按照國際的標準以及我們國人飲食習慣的一個意見，提供專業的意見給我們的談判團隊。"],["高金委員素梅：我從早上就一直聽到你在講「科學」這兩個字，其實一講到科學，我就頭皮發麻了，為什麼呢？我要在這邊提醒你，因為這個所謂的科學的重要性，就是中美貿易倡議的良好法制作業這一章，我相信你們都應該知道了，有五個地方提到了科學，而美國貿易障礙的評估報告，在臺灣這個部分當中，美國也指控我們沒有科學依據，一共有三個地方，而我曾經對陳建仁院長也談過這個問題，他說「我們要按照科學依據，尤其是美國的食品法典委員會（Codex）的標準」，那請問一下，我們還是按照這個標準嗎？請問一下。"],["邱部長泰源：我請署長說明一下。"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，就剛才提到科學標準的部分，我們其實對於科學這一塊定下來以外，另外配的是國人的飲食調查裡面的國人營養調查的數據……"],["高金委員素梅：營養調查部落最多啊！"],["姜署長至剛：國人會有國人的飲食的特殊性，所以在這種特殊性之下，評估出來……"],["高金委員素梅：那我們特殊性是什麼？"],["姜署長至剛：我們特殊性裡面的飲食，比如說，我們在不同年齡層……"],["高金委員素梅：我們吃豬肉吃很多啊，滷肉飯、水餃，全部都是。"],["姜署長至剛：對，的確，所以這個東西都重新算過了，所以算完之後，我們訂出一個標準，一直以來按照這個標準，我們在邊境裡面查察，如果是違規的，一定不會讓它來臺灣。"],["高金委員素梅：所以你的科學，你所謂的科學是美國都接受的？"],["姜署長至剛：我覺得它是universal的，是全世界都會共同認為這是可以的。"],["高金委員素梅：錯了、錯了。你是食藥署，對吧？"],["姜署長至剛：是的，你好。"],["高金委員素梅：你知不知道歐盟是拒絕基改食品，它依據的是什麼，它依據的是卡塔赫納生物安全議定書，包括日本也用這個議定書來拒絕美國的基改食物，然後進入到校園，所以我今天為什麼要請五位上來，尤其是談判總代表處顏慧欣副總談判代表，你是行政院經貿談判辦公室，很重要，您認為你們要怎麼樣在談判的過程中捍衛、堅持臺灣人民的利益還有健康？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想，基本上我們跟美國的談判不是只談美豬、美牛議題……"],["高金委員素梅：還有什麼議題？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：對等關稅的來源……"],["高金委員素梅：來！賴總統提出那5個策略再放一下。這個嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：這5個議題……"],["高金委員素梅：跟這些都有關係嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：對等關稅的來源確實就如川普政府自己宣布，背景是其他各國關稅太高，還有非關稅障礙、匯率問題，以及各國一些境內稅、貨物稅的問題，所以總結這些來說，美國希望各國看待自己國內是不是確實有這些美國所關切的現象來作為。"],["高金委員素梅：談判應該怎麼樣？知己知彼對吧？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：是。"],["高金委員素梅：談判時最重要的是你是臺灣代表，對吧？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：沒錯。"],["高金委員素梅：臺灣的代表是不是應該代表2,300萬人民，站在第一線、捍衛我們的權益？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：這是我們的責任。"],["高金委員素梅：好。如果這一次沒有辦法捍衛到人民的健康跟利益，你們該怎麼辦？如何向國人交代？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們一定據理力爭。"],["高金委員素梅：只有據理力爭嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：有任何條件，我想都需要朝野的共識，所以我們一定會來爭取。"],["高金委員素梅：我們絕對是同意的啊！我們絕對堅決站在你們的背後啊！"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員。"],["高金委員素梅：絕對是啊！但我現在要講的是萬一今天做不到我們說的捍衛人民利益跟健康，你們該怎麼辦？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想國人的健康不會是談判的籌碼，這一定是我們的基本立場，然後才討論其他議題。"],["高金委員素梅：好，你能不能像部長剛剛一樣，講得更清楚一點？當你們去談判……你們已經有視訊談判了嘛！對不對？因為在我的總質詢中，院長告訴我已經視訊談判了，近期馬上就會統整視訊談判當中所談到的問題，然後直接進入核心談判，對吧？所以你們已經有一個想法，也有談判要點跟籌碼了，對吧？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們現在正在統整各個相關議題的立場。"],["高金委員素梅：還在統整啊？還在統整？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：因為我們的談判團隊各有分工……"],["高金委員素梅：縱使已經有了一次所謂的視訊談判，你們還正在統整？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：視訊是交換、讓大家增進了解，我們也要確認美國實際上的需求。"],["高金委員素梅：那請問會談判幾次？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：這完全是現在正在進行當中的議題。"],["高金委員素梅：幾次都不知道啊？有沒有在你們的規劃當中？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：這部分都在持續進行當中。"],["高金委員素梅：你認為你們準備充分了嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們是廣泛地蒐集各種情資，目的就是要讓臺灣的準備更充分。"],["高金委員素梅：今天除了我在這邊，全民都在看、全民都在等。召委特別安排了這一次委員會，讓你們來說明跟報告，就是因為全民都認為這是非常嚴重的事情，甚至是臺灣的國難，所以你們要秉持跟石破茂一樣的精神告訴美國，人民的健康、人民的利益是不容許被美國這樣踐踏的，可以嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：了解。"],["高金委員素梅：在這樣的基礎上談判，可以嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：了解，我們會據理力爭。"],["高金委員素梅：好，我們都在等、我們都在看。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝高金委員，謝謝部長、次長。","接續請王鴻薇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","楊曜","王正旭","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","劉建國","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","高金素梅","王鴻薇","許宇甄","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","廖偉翔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判\n代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民\n權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00005"}}}