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00:01:12,856\n諸多的要求啦我看到日本首相其實蠻硬的石破茂說他絕對會堅守日本的利益而且他不會很快就跟他們達成協議他們會長期抗戰我希望我們台灣也秉持這樣的立場啦不要說好像美國找我們了我們就川普找我們了所以我們就什麼都投降了他要幹嘛就幹嘛一定要堅守我們的國家利益啦也不要說好像為了要很快達成協議就退讓\n\n4\n00:01:13,757 --> 00:01:18,816\n這一點底線一定要守住跟日本一樣我先請教一下農業部\n\n5\n00:01:20,356 --> 00:01:45,647\n那個紐西蘭的牛奶紐西蘭的鮮乳現在零關稅進來嘛大家都之前農業部也預測說因為它零關稅鮮奶進來之後呢它的價錢一定會往下降所以你們在去年的時候才推那個慢慢喝鮮奶嘛因為保護弱農嘛因為怕說紐西蘭的鮮奶便宜之後大家都去買紐西蘭的鮮奶導致國內弱農受到影響結果發現完全沒有影響他們的鮮奶價錢依然一樣\n\n6\n00:01:46,772 --> 00:02:11,711\n那我第一個問一下農業部你們當初是有誤判嗎應該這樣說其實推動國產應該是推動國產可溯源牛乳進到校園這件事情是為了國內的農農產業這件事情是對的那第二個紐西蘭進來到台灣的產品其實乳產品很多但是鮮乳不多他大概都是起司奶粉比較多\n\n7\n00:02:12,572 --> 00:02:28,193\n那當然關稅你又沒回答我的問題啦那第二你有沒有去了解一下說為什麼他都零關稅了結果他的價格還是跟之前一樣這是卡在哪裡看到兩件事情一件事情是紐西蘭自己本身因為其實出口的鮮乳也是有限那去年\n\n8\n00:02:28,954 --> 00:02:44,272\n能夠出口的也不多所以價格上面我不曉得是不是有這樣的影響這些我不確定那第二個近來即使成本低即使零關稅不代表他一定成本低因為每個國家包括我們自己的養牛產業的成本也會因為有影響所以這個\n\n9\n00:02:45,473 --> 00:03:09,879\n是次長嗎是我杜汶珍對那所以其實次長你現在講的就會讓人家覺得說去年不是大家對於這個紐西蘭牛奶零關稅這是很緊張嗎然後現在感覺是好像沒什麼差別我是覺得因為現在消費者對這個東西很多質疑啦就應該了解一下說為什麼關稅降了之後它的價格沒有下來但我要提醒農業部現在你們在跟美國談的時候其實你有注意到美國奶的問題嗎\n\n10\n00:03:10,839 --> 00:03:27,933\n你知道好市多因為好市多都進口加州牛奶嘛你知道他兩公升一瓶是多少錢嗎抱歉我都買你不知道齁那我跟你講齁他一瓶兩公升一瓶在好市多大概賣125到130塊啦那你知道台灣的鮮奶現在一瓶兩公升大概賣多少嗎\n\n11\n00:03:30,018 --> 00:03:42,134\n不知道我跟你講160到170所以美國的鮮奶是比台灣便宜很多而且好市多還是在付很多關稅的情況之下他還可以把價格壓那麼低\n\n12\n00:03:43,314 --> 00:04:06,829\n這個代表什麼呢這個代表說我們現在跟美國談判如果美國要求說我們在鮮奶這一塊呢零關稅的話美國的鮮奶才會很低價的進到台灣我剛剛已經舉了那個好事多的例子給你聽了那當然這個對消費者來說是個好事啦以後消費者就可以買到很便宜的鮮奶美國鮮奶但是我站在農業部的立場你一定會保護我們的弱農嘛\n\n13\n00:04:07,429 --> 00:04:12,194\n我一定是對所以所以你到時候就會哇又要推什麼斑斑喝鮮奶啊或者是長輩喝鮮奶啊軍人喝鮮奶啊\n\n14\n00:04:15,137 --> 00:04:43,247\n又會搞了一堆這個政策出來那所以我現在是提醒農業部當然站在你們的角度一定是保護假設最後談判結果是美國的牛奶有大舉入侵你們一定會推很多配套措施出來可是在推配套措施出來的時候一定要考慮到這個執行面的部分就不然的話就會跟斑斑喝鮮奶一樣搞到最後農業部就退場了為什麼呢因為發現學校沒有那個斑斑喝鮮奶的配套的設備\n\n15\n00:04:44,227 --> 00:05:06,302\n大家都訂保酒奶保酒奶又不夠所以最後農業部退場然後變成地方政府看哪一個地方政府自己要執行再去執行就一團亂所以提醒這件事情美國的牛奶如果要進來你一定要做好準備農業部一定支持國內的一定要做好準備啦一定要做好準備啦因為它會比紐西蘭的鮮奶影響更大農業部一定支持國內酪農產業謝謝謝謝葉委員謝謝次長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5334\t9768\t主席要慢慢請農業部還有那個我們談判代表經貿辦公室\n18286\t43589\t委員好是 那個我先跟那個談判副總談判代表嘛是 委員好因為我們看到日本啊他們在對美國在談判這個貿易協定的時候其實採取比較硬的態度啦就是說美國要求日本要把貿易逆差歸零還包括說要出口很多農產品到日本去還甚至叫日本去買美國車\n45250\t72856\t諸多的要求啦我看到日本首相其實蠻硬的石破茂說他絕對會堅守日本的利益而且他不會很快就跟他們達成協議他們會長期抗戰我希望我們台灣也秉持這樣的立場啦不要說好像美國找我們了我們就川普找我們了所以我們就什麼都投降了他要幹嘛就幹嘛一定要堅守我們的國家利益啦也不要說好像為了要很快達成協議就退讓\n73757\t78816\t這一點底線一定要守住跟日本一樣我先請教一下農業部\n80356\t105647\t那個紐西蘭的牛奶 紐西蘭的鮮乳現在零關稅進來嘛大家都 之前農業部也預測說因為它零關稅鮮奶進來之後呢它的價錢一定會往下降所以你們在去年的時候才推那個慢慢喝鮮奶嘛因為保護弱農嘛因為怕說紐西蘭的鮮奶便宜之後大家都去買紐西蘭的鮮奶導致國內弱農受到影響結果發現完全沒有影響他們的鮮奶價錢依然一樣\n106772\t131711\t那我第一個問一下農業部你們當初是有誤判嗎應該這樣說其實推動國產應該是推動國產可溯源牛乳進到校園這件事情是為了國內的農農產業這件事情是對的那第二個紐西蘭進來到台灣的產品其實乳產品很多但是鮮乳不多他大概都是起司奶粉比較多\n132572\t148193\t那當然關稅你又沒回答我的問題啦那第二你有沒有去了解一下說為什麼他都零關稅了結果他的價格還是跟之前一樣這是卡在哪裡看到兩件事情一件事情是紐西蘭自己本身因為其實出口的鮮乳也是有限那去年\n148954\t164272\t能夠出口的也不多所以價格上面我不曉得是不是有這樣的影響這些我不確定那第二個近來即使成本低即使零關稅不代表他一定成本低因為每個國家包括我們自己的養牛產業的成本也會因為有影響所以這個\n165473\t189879\t是次長嗎是我杜汶珍對那所以其實次長你現在講的就會讓人家覺得說去年不是大家對於這個紐西蘭牛奶零關稅這是很緊張嗎然後現在感覺是好像沒什麼差別我是覺得因為現在消費者對這個東西很多質疑啦就應該了解一下說為什麼關稅降了之後它的價格沒有下來但我要提醒農業部現在你們在跟美國談的時候其實你有注意到美國奶的問題嗎\n190839\t207933\t你知道好市多因為好市多都進口加州牛奶嘛你知道他兩公升一瓶是多少錢嗎抱歉我都買你不知道齁那我跟你講齁他一瓶兩公升一瓶在好市多大概賣125到130塊啦那你知道台灣的鮮奶現在一瓶兩公升大概賣多少嗎\n210018\t222134\t不知道我跟你講160到170所以美國的鮮奶是比台灣便宜很多而且好市多還是在付很多關稅的情況之下他還可以把價格壓那麼低\n223314\t246829\t這個代表什麼呢這個代表說我們現在跟美國談判如果美國要求說我們在鮮奶這一塊呢零關稅的話美國的鮮奶才會很低價的進到台灣我剛剛已經舉了那個好事多的例子給你聽了那當然這個對消費者來說是個好事啦以後消費者就可以買到很便宜的鮮奶美國鮮奶但是我站在農業部的立場你一定會保護我們的弱農嘛\n247429\t252194\t我一定是對所以所以你到時候就會哇又要推什麼斑斑喝鮮奶啊或者是長輩喝鮮奶啊軍人喝鮮奶啊\n255137\t283247\t又會搞了一堆這個政策出來那所以我現在是提醒農業部當然站在你們的角度一定是保護假設最後談判結果是美國的牛奶有大舉入侵你們一定會推很多配套措施出來可是在推配套措施出來的時候一定要考慮到這個執行面的部分就不然的話就會跟斑斑喝鮮奶一樣搞到最後農業部就退場了為什麼呢因為發現學校沒有那個斑斑喝鮮奶的配套的設備\n284227\t306302\t大家都訂保酒奶 保酒奶又不夠所以最後農業部退場然後變成地方政府看哪一個地方政府自己要執行再去執行就一團亂所以提醒這件事情美國的牛奶如果要進來你一定要做好準備農業部一定支持國內的一定要做好準備啦一定要做好準備啦因為它會比紐西蘭的鮮奶影響更大農業部一定支持國內酪農產業謝謝謝謝葉委員 謝謝次長\n","txt":"主席要慢慢請農業部還有那個我們談判代表經貿辦公室\n委員好是 那個我先跟那個談判副總談判代表嘛是 委員好因為我們看到日本啊他們在對美國在談判這個貿易協定的時候其實採取比較硬的態度啦就是說美國要求日本要把貿易逆差歸零還包括說要出口很多農產品到日本去還甚至叫日本去買美國車\n諸多的要求啦我看到日本首相其實蠻硬的石破茂說他絕對會堅守日本的利益而且他不會很快就跟他們達成協議他們會長期抗戰我希望我們台灣也秉持這樣的立場啦不要說好像美國找我們了我們就川普找我們了所以我們就什麼都投降了他要幹嘛就幹嘛一定要堅守我們的國家利益啦也不要說好像為了要很快達成協議就退讓\n這一點底線一定要守住跟日本一樣我先請教一下農業部\n那個紐西蘭的牛奶 紐西蘭的鮮乳現在零關稅進來嘛大家都 之前農業部也預測說因為它零關稅鮮奶進來之後呢它的價錢一定會往下降所以你們在去年的時候才推那個慢慢喝鮮奶嘛因為保護弱農嘛因為怕說紐西蘭的鮮奶便宜之後大家都去買紐西蘭的鮮奶導致國內弱農受到影響結果發現完全沒有影響他們的鮮奶價錢依然一樣\n那我第一個問一下農業部你們當初是有誤判嗎應該這樣說其實推動國產應該是推動國產可溯源牛乳進到校園這件事情是為了國內的農農產業這件事情是對的那第二個紐西蘭進來到台灣的產品其實乳產品很多但是鮮乳不多他大概都是起司奶粉比較多\n那當然關稅你又沒回答我的問題啦那第二你有沒有去了解一下說為什麼他都零關稅了結果他的價格還是跟之前一樣這是卡在哪裡看到兩件事情一件事情是紐西蘭自己本身因為其實出口的鮮乳也是有限那去年\n能夠出口的也不多所以價格上面我不曉得是不是有這樣的影響這些我不確定那第二個近來即使成本低即使零關稅不代表他一定成本低因為每個國家包括我們自己的養牛產業的成本也會因為有影響所以這個\n是次長嗎是我杜汶珍對那所以其實次長你現在講的就會讓人家覺得說去年不是大家對於這個紐西蘭牛奶零關稅這是很緊張嗎然後現在感覺是好像沒什麼差別我是覺得因為現在消費者對這個東西很多質疑啦就應該了解一下說為什麼關稅降了之後它的價格沒有下來但我要提醒農業部現在你們在跟美國談的時候其實你有注意到美國奶的問題嗎\n你知道好市多因為好市多都進口加州牛奶嘛你知道他兩公升一瓶是多少錢嗎抱歉我都買你不知道齁那我跟你講齁他一瓶兩公升一瓶在好市多大概賣125到130塊啦那你知道台灣的鮮奶現在一瓶兩公升大概賣多少嗎\n不知道我跟你講160到170所以美國的鮮奶是比台灣便宜很多而且好市多還是在付很多關稅的情況之下他還可以把價格壓那麼低\n這個代表什麼呢這個代表說我們現在跟美國談判如果美國要求說我們在鮮奶這一塊呢零關稅的話美國的鮮奶才會很低價的進到台灣我剛剛已經舉了那個好事多的例子給你聽了那當然這個對消費者來說是個好事啦以後消費者就可以買到很便宜的鮮奶美國鮮奶但是我站在農業部的立場你一定會保護我們的弱農嘛\n我一定是對所以所以你到時候就會哇又要推什麼斑斑喝鮮奶啊或者是長輩喝鮮奶啊軍人喝鮮奶啊\n又會搞了一堆這個政策出來那所以我現在是提醒農業部當然站在你們的角度一定是保護假設最後談判結果是美國的牛奶有大舉入侵你們一定會推很多配套措施出來可是在推配套措施出來的時候一定要考慮到這個執行面的部分就不然的話就會跟斑斑喝鮮奶一樣搞到最後農業部就退場了為什麼呢因為發現學校沒有那個斑斑喝鮮奶的配套的設備\n大家都訂保酒奶 保酒奶又不夠所以最後農業部退場然後變成地方政府看哪一個地方政府自己要執行再去執行就一團亂所以提醒這件事情美國的牛奶如果要進來你一定要做好準備農業部一定支持國內的一定要做好準備啦一定要做好準備啦因為它會比紐西蘭的鮮奶影響更大農業部一定支持國內酪農產業謝謝謝謝葉委員 謝謝次長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.334 --> 00:09.768\n主席要慢慢請農業部還有那個我們談判代表經貿辦公室\n\n00:18.286 --> 00:43.589\n委員好是那個我先跟那個談判副總談判代表嘛是委員好因為我們看到日本啊他們在對美國在談判這個貿易協定的時候其實採取比較硬的態度啦就是說美國要求日本要把貿易逆差歸零還包括說要出口很多農產品到日本去還甚至叫日本去買美國車\n\n00:45.250 --> 01:12.856\n諸多的要求啦我看到日本首相其實蠻硬的石破茂說他絕對會堅守日本的利益而且他不會很快就跟他們達成協議他們會長期抗戰我希望我們台灣也秉持這樣的立場啦不要說好像美國找我們了我們就川普找我們了所以我們就什麼都投降了他要幹嘛就幹嘛一定要堅守我們的國家利益啦也不要說好像為了要很快達成協議就退讓\n\n01:13.757 --> 01:18.816\n這一點底線一定要守住跟日本一樣我先請教一下農業部\n\n01:20.356 --> 01:45.647\n那個紐西蘭的牛奶紐西蘭的鮮乳現在零關稅進來嘛大家都之前農業部也預測說因為它零關稅鮮奶進來之後呢它的價錢一定會往下降所以你們在去年的時候才推那個慢慢喝鮮奶嘛因為保護弱農嘛因為怕說紐西蘭的鮮奶便宜之後大家都去買紐西蘭的鮮奶導致國內弱農受到影響結果發現完全沒有影響他們的鮮奶價錢依然一樣\n\n01:46.772 --> 02:11.711\n那我第一個問一下農業部你們當初是有誤判嗎應該這樣說其實推動國產應該是推動國產可溯源牛乳進到校園這件事情是為了國內的農農產業這件事情是對的那第二個紐西蘭進來到台灣的產品其實乳產品很多但是鮮乳不多他大概都是起司奶粉比較多\n\n02:12.572 --> 02:28.193\n那當然關稅你又沒回答我的問題啦那第二你有沒有去了解一下說為什麼他都零關稅了結果他的價格還是跟之前一樣這是卡在哪裡看到兩件事情一件事情是紐西蘭自己本身因為其實出口的鮮乳也是有限那去年\n\n02:28.954 --> 02:44.272\n能夠出口的也不多所以價格上面我不曉得是不是有這樣的影響這些我不確定那第二個近來即使成本低即使零關稅不代表他一定成本低因為每個國家包括我們自己的養牛產業的成本也會因為有影響所以這個\n\n02:45.473 --> 03:09.879\n是次長嗎是我杜汶珍對那所以其實次長你現在講的就會讓人家覺得說去年不是大家對於這個紐西蘭牛奶零關稅這是很緊張嗎然後現在感覺是好像沒什麼差別我是覺得因為現在消費者對這個東西很多質疑啦就應該了解一下說為什麼關稅降了之後它的價格沒有下來但我要提醒農業部現在你們在跟美國談的時候其實你有注意到美國奶的問題嗎\n\n03:10.839 --> 03:27.933\n你知道好市多因為好市多都進口加州牛奶嘛你知道他兩公升一瓶是多少錢嗎抱歉我都買你不知道齁那我跟你講齁他一瓶兩公升一瓶在好市多大概賣125到130塊啦那你知道台灣的鮮奶現在一瓶兩公升大概賣多少嗎\n\n03:30.018 --> 03:42.134\n不知道我跟你講160到170所以美國的鮮奶是比台灣便宜很多而且好市多還是在付很多關稅的情況之下他還可以把價格壓那麼低\n\n03:43.314 --> 04:06.829\n這個代表什麼呢這個代表說我們現在跟美國談判如果美國要求說我們在鮮奶這一塊呢零關稅的話美國的鮮奶才會很低價的進到台灣我剛剛已經舉了那個好事多的例子給你聽了那當然這個對消費者來說是個好事啦以後消費者就可以買到很便宜的鮮奶美國鮮奶但是我站在農業部的立場你一定會保護我們的弱農嘛\n\n04:07.429 --> 04:12.194\n我一定是對所以所以你到時候就會哇又要推什麼斑斑喝鮮奶啊或者是長輩喝鮮奶啊軍人喝鮮奶啊\n\n04:15.137 --> 04:43.247\n又會搞了一堆這個政策出來那所以我現在是提醒農業部當然站在你們的角度一定是保護假設最後談判結果是美國的牛奶有大舉入侵你們一定會推很多配套措施出來可是在推配套措施出來的時候一定要考慮到這個執行面的部分就不然的話就會跟斑斑喝鮮奶一樣搞到最後農業部就退場了為什麼呢因為發現學校沒有那個斑斑喝鮮奶的配套的設備\n\n04:44.227 --> 05:06.302\n大家都訂保酒奶保酒奶又不夠所以最後農業部退場然後變成地方政府看哪一個地方政府自己要執行再去執行就一團亂所以提醒這件事情美國的牛奶如果要進來你一定要做好準備農業部一定支持國內的一定要做好準備啦一定要做好準備啦因為它會比紐西蘭的鮮奶影響更大農業部一定支持國內酪農產業謝謝謝謝葉委員謝謝次長\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.334,"end":9.768,"text":"主席要慢慢請農業部還有那個我們談判代表經貿辦公室"},{"start":18.286,"end":43.589,"text":"委員好是 那個我先跟那個談判副總談判代表嘛是 委員好因為我們看到日本啊他們在對美國在談判這個貿易協定的時候其實採取比較硬的態度啦就是說美國要求日本要把貿易逆差歸零還包括說要出口很多農產品到日本去還甚至叫日本去買美國車"},{"start":45.25,"end":72.856,"text":"諸多的要求啦我看到日本首相其實蠻硬的石破茂說他絕對會堅守日本的利益而且他不會很快就跟他們達成協議他們會長期抗戰我希望我們台灣也秉持這樣的立場啦不要說好像美國找我們了我們就川普找我們了所以我們就什麼都投降了他要幹嘛就幹嘛一定要堅守我們的國家利益啦也不要說好像為了要很快達成協議就退讓"},{"start":73.757,"end":78.816,"text":"這一點底線一定要守住跟日本一樣我先請教一下農業部"},{"start":80.356,"end":105.647,"text":"那個紐西蘭的牛奶 紐西蘭的鮮乳現在零關稅進來嘛大家都 之前農業部也預測說因為它零關稅鮮奶進來之後呢它的價錢一定會往下降所以你們在去年的時候才推那個慢慢喝鮮奶嘛因為保護弱農嘛因為怕說紐西蘭的鮮奶便宜之後大家都去買紐西蘭的鮮奶導致國內弱農受到影響結果發現完全沒有影響他們的鮮奶價錢依然一樣"},{"start":106.772,"end":131.711,"text":"那我第一個問一下農業部你們當初是有誤判嗎應該這樣說其實推動國產應該是推動國產可溯源牛乳進到校園這件事情是為了國內的農農產業這件事情是對的那第二個紐西蘭進來到台灣的產品其實乳產品很多但是鮮乳不多他大概都是起司奶粉比較多"},{"start":132.572,"end":148.193,"text":"那當然關稅你又沒回答我的問題啦那第二你有沒有去了解一下說為什麼他都零關稅了結果他的價格還是跟之前一樣這是卡在哪裡看到兩件事情一件事情是紐西蘭自己本身因為其實出口的鮮乳也是有限那去年"},{"start":148.954,"end":164.272,"text":"能夠出口的也不多所以價格上面我不曉得是不是有這樣的影響這些我不確定那第二個近來即使成本低即使零關稅不代表他一定成本低因為每個國家包括我們自己的養牛產業的成本也會因為有影響所以這個"},{"start":165.473,"end":189.879,"text":"是次長嗎是我杜汶珍對那所以其實次長你現在講的就會讓人家覺得說去年不是大家對於這個紐西蘭牛奶零關稅這是很緊張嗎然後現在感覺是好像沒什麼差別我是覺得因為現在消費者對這個東西很多質疑啦就應該了解一下說為什麼關稅降了之後它的價格沒有下來但我要提醒農業部現在你們在跟美國談的時候其實你有注意到美國奶的問題嗎"},{"start":190.839,"end":207.933,"text":"你知道好市多因為好市多都進口加州牛奶嘛你知道他兩公升一瓶是多少錢嗎抱歉我都買你不知道齁那我跟你講齁他一瓶兩公升一瓶在好市多大概賣125到130塊啦那你知道台灣的鮮奶現在一瓶兩公升大概賣多少嗎"},{"start":210.018,"end":222.134,"text":"不知道我跟你講160到170所以美國的鮮奶是比台灣便宜很多而且好市多還是在付很多關稅的情況之下他還可以把價格壓那麼低"},{"start":223.314,"end":246.829,"text":"這個代表什麼呢這個代表說我們現在跟美國談判如果美國要求說我們在鮮奶這一塊呢零關稅的話美國的鮮奶才會很低價的進到台灣我剛剛已經舉了那個好事多的例子給你聽了那當然這個對消費者來說是個好事啦以後消費者就可以買到很便宜的鮮奶美國鮮奶但是我站在農業部的立場你一定會保護我們的弱農嘛"},{"start":247.429,"end":252.194,"text":"我一定是對所以所以你到時候就會哇又要推什麼斑斑喝鮮奶啊或者是長輩喝鮮奶啊軍人喝鮮奶啊"},{"start":255.137,"end":283.247,"text":"又會搞了一堆這個政策出來那所以我現在是提醒農業部當然站在你們的角度一定是保護假設最後談判結果是美國的牛奶有大舉入侵你們一定會推很多配套措施出來可是在推配套措施出來的時候一定要考慮到這個執行面的部分就不然的話就會跟斑斑喝鮮奶一樣搞到最後農業部就退場了為什麼呢因為發現學校沒有那個斑斑喝鮮奶的配套的設備"},{"start":284.227,"end":306.302,"text":"大家都訂保酒奶 保酒奶又不夠所以最後農業部退場然後變成地方政府看哪一個地方政府自己要執行再去執行就一團亂所以提醒這件事情美國的牛奶如果要進來你一定要做好準備農業部一定支持國內的一定要做好準備啦一定要做好準備啦因為它會比紐西蘭的鮮奶影響更大農業部一定支持國內酪農產業謝謝謝謝葉委員 謝謝次長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1221,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（13時18分）主席，麻煩請農業部還有經貿辦公室談判代表。"],["杜次長文珍：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：是，我先跟副總談判代表說。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：是，委員好。"],["葉委員元之：我們看到日本對美國談判貿易協定的時候，其實採取比較硬的態度。美國要求日本要把貿易逆差歸零，還要出口很多農產品到日本去，甚至叫日本買美國車，有諸多要求啦！不過我看到日本首相其實滿硬的，石破茂說他絕對會堅守日本的利益，而且不會很快就跟美國達成協議，而是會長期抗戰。我希望我們臺灣也秉持這樣的立場，不要只因為美國找我們了、川普找我們了，我們就什麼都投降、任他們要幹嘛就幹嘛，一定要堅守我們的國家利益啦！也不要為了很快達成協議就退讓，這個底線一定要守住，跟日本一樣。","我請教一下農業部。紐西蘭的鮮乳現在可以零關稅進來，之前農業部也預測他們的零關稅鮮奶進來之後，鮮奶價錢一定會往下降，所以你們去年才推動班班喝鮮奶嘛！目的是保護酪農，因為害怕紐西蘭鮮奶比較便宜，大家都去買紐西蘭鮮奶，導致國內酪農受到影響，結果卻發現完全沒有影響，他們的鮮奶價錢依然一樣。所以我第一點想問農業部，你們當初是有誤判嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：第一，推動國產可溯源牛乳進到校園，這是為了國內的酪農產業，這件事情是對的。第二，紐西蘭進到臺灣的產品，其實乳產品很多，但是鮮乳不多，大概都是起司、奶粉比較多，當然關稅……"],["葉委員元之：你又沒回答我的問題，你有沒有去瞭解一下，為什麼它都零關稅了，結果價格還是跟之前一樣，這是卡在哪裡？"],["杜次長文珍：第一，紐西蘭本身出口的鮮乳也有限，去年能夠出口的也不多，所以價格上我不曉得是不是有這樣的影響，這些我不確定。第二，即使進來零關稅，不代表它一定成本低，因為每個國家，包括我們自己的養牛產業的成本，也會因為一些影響……"],["葉委員元之：所以這位是次長嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：是，我杜文珍。"],["葉委員元之：其實次長你現在講的就會讓人家覺得，去年不是大家對於紐西蘭牛奶零關稅很緊張嗎？然後現在感覺是好像沒什麼差別。我是覺得因為現在消費者對這個東西很多質疑啦！你應該瞭解一下為什麼關稅降了之後，它的價格沒有下來？我要提醒農業部，現在你們在跟美國談的時候，你有注意到美國奶的問題嗎？你知道好市多都進口加州牛奶，你知道它兩公升一瓶是多少錢嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：抱歉，我都買國產牛奶。"],["葉委員元之：你不知道，那我跟你講，兩公升一瓶在好市多，大概賣125到130元，那你知道臺灣的鮮奶，現在一瓶兩公升大概賣多少嗎？不知道？我跟你講，大概160到170元。所以美國的鮮奶是比臺灣便宜很多，而且好市多是在付很多關稅的情況之下，還可以把價格壓那麼低喔！這代表什麼呢？這代表我們現在跟美國談判，如果美國要求我們在鮮奶這一塊零關稅的話，美國的鮮奶會很低價的進到臺灣。我剛剛已經舉好市多的例子給你聽了，當然這對消費者來說是好事，以後消費者就可以買到很便宜的美國鮮奶，但是站在農業部的立場，你一定會保護我們的酪農嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：我一定支持我們國內的牛奶。"],["葉委員元之：所以你到時候就會又要推什麼班班喝鮮奶、長輩喝鮮奶、軍人喝鮮奶，搞一堆這種政策出來。我現在是提醒農業部，當然站在你們的角度一定是保護，假設最後談判結果是美國牛奶大舉入侵，你們一定會推很多配套措施出來。可是在推配套措施的時候，一定要考慮執行面的部分，不然就會跟班班喝鮮奶一樣，搞到最後農業部就退場了。為什麼？因為發現學校沒有班班喝鮮奶的配套設備，大家都訂保久奶，保久奶又不夠，所以最後農業部退場，變成看哪一個地方政府自己要執行再去執行，就一團亂。所以提醒這件事情，美國的牛奶如果要進來，你一定要做好準備。"],["杜次長文珍：農業部一定支持國內的酪農產業。"],["葉委員元之：一定要做好準備啦！因為它會比紐西蘭的鮮奶影響更大啦！"],["杜次長文珍：農業部一定支持國內酪農產業。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉委員，謝謝次長。接續請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","楊曜","王正旭","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","劉建國","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","高金素梅","王鴻薇","許宇甄","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","廖偉翔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判\n代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民\n權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00005"}}}