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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,796 --> 00:00:07,718\n好謝謝主席那個麻煩部長跟食藥署長部長\n\n2\n00:00:18,081 --> 00:00:37,677\n大家好我想今天本席要再次質詢衛福部跟食藥署就是把食品廣告、健康效應通通當成是醫療效能的這件事情我想這不只是法規上的荒謬更是根本就是說對我們全民健康的一個霸權壟斷\n\n3\n00:00:39,718 --> 00:01:05,219\n本席在上個月16號質詢的時候就有講過食品及藥物廣告標示及醫療效能認定的準則把健康跟醫療畫上等號那害得業者動輒得救那人民追求健康的權利被剝奪今天我就用兩個實例來檢驗你們的邏輯看看你們的標準到底有多離譜也希望今天我跟署長的對話可以有交集\n\n4\n00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:32,886\n我們第一個案例好來看一下這是國建署的這個案例那這個國建署算是你們自己人好國建署的部分在這個他們補助的廣告寫著清胃腸代謝好那請問這個邱部長跟江署長這句話有沒有問題代謝好是健康效應還是你們說的這個醫療效能\n\n5\n00:01:37,284 --> 00:02:06,716\n就是剛剛講啊這個代謝好是健康效應還是你們講的醫療效能跟委員做進一步報告這個清腸胃跟代謝好它是一種抽象的一個概念那對於這個抽象的概念裡面提到的是腸胃道假如是長期有些便祕的狀況呢假如是有蔬菜的話是有膳食纖維它可以有機會能夠讓我們的排便能夠更順暢那代謝好呢那其實\n\n6\n00:02:07,336 --> 00:02:24,221\n我們裡面蔬菜的膳食纖維對於血糖的穩定度是非常非常高的它可以減緩我們血糖吸收的速度對於血糖的波動是這樣因為血糖的波動叫做GlucoseBarSugarOscillation就是波動波動的越高高高低低我簡單這樣問啦我簡單這樣問齁國健署這樣子的廣告該不該罰\n\n7\n00:02:29,895 --> 00:02:49,445\n我想這個齁它是抽象概念對蔬菜的這個增進而且每日五蔬果蔬果五七九這件事情我們覺得這個特供是非常非常好的如果說是業者這樣寫的話你們就不會罰了是不是也是抽象概念我們對於廣告的名詞上面其實我們都是正面表列說哪些\n\n8\n00:02:50,265 --> 00:03:14,914\n所以根據食品安全衛生管理法第28條食品不得宣稱醫療效能也就是不能說治療或預防疾病可是輕胃腸你說治療便祕Constipation的話就是不行的如果說治療便祕就不行它叫輕腸胃這個問題是抽象的概念裡面能夠去做它可以達到因為這個東西呢\n\n9\n00:03:15,874 --> 00:03:29,691\n所有吃進去看得到的照片裡面都會增加我們糞便的殘渣這糞便殘渣就會讓我們的水類能夠保存避免便秘現在你講的就是國健署就是不用法這樣的案例是不用法他沒有宣稱醫療效能好\n\n10\n00:03:34,810 --> 00:03:54,691\n可以那大家把這個記住來再來看這個案例2教育部的膳食纖維預防腸道疾病的廣告這個廣告的案例就更誇張了教育部推廣健康飲食說多吃含纖維食物可以預防腸道疾病及控制血糖\n\n11\n00:03:55,231 --> 00:04:14,033\n這句話呢就直接踩到你們認定的這個準則第五條第一項的紅線宣稱預防疾病和控制血糖這完全根本就是醫療效能不是嗎那我想問的是說教育部這個廣告應該就違法吧按照你們標準那他該不該罰呢還是又很抽象\n\n12\n00:04:15,049 --> 00:04:42,501\n我這邊跟委員做進一步說明從整體來看你看到1、2、3、4、5裡面各項裡面把裡面重要的去說明之後每一項提到的是重要的含膳食纖維的概念在底下那膳食纖維概念底下畫了腸道裡面有畫了那個應該是小細菌的代表的感覺降低血中膽固醇預防心血管疾病\n\n13\n00:04:48,669 --> 00:05:11,859\n報告委員上面寫的那個降低續航或改善便祕好跟委員特別說明一下他沒有任何產品產品沒有在裡面啦這裡面是沒有產品的廣告是要做產品的一個我們是針對特別產品的但是你們的食品食品在講食品\n\n14\n00:05:13,027 --> 00:05:30,849\n也是一樣的我的意思是說如果是一個特定的產品它的廣告針對裡面的所有的論述這邊特別跟委員說明一下有助血糖的控制它裡面提到的是一種我們針對這個它不會說我可以治療糖尿病這個不行\n\n15\n00:05:33,031 --> 00:06:00,646\n預防便祕改善便祕的情形這裡面的是改善他沒有特別提到說我可以治療便祕治療的話就是所謂的我們剛才講的醫療療效接下來呢他提到如果今天如果今天在你們的認定每個人都可以像署長這樣子的話我想爭議可能就會少很多了吧但是問題是事實上可能不是這個樣子\n\n16\n00:06:02,229 --> 00:06:26,727\n謝謝委員這邊的跟我們提醒我們對於業者所有的廣告我們很積極的做所謂以輔導代替裁罰是我們要去做的那我們最近有一件事先跟委員報告一下我們特別的連這些媒體的平台特別的希望我們來一起來能夠協作我剛來立法院你可能還不是很懂規矩就是\n\n17\n00:06:31,311 --> 00:06:58,305\n本席在問話的時候你還要一直搶答那我剩下的時間都交給你你繼續講我剩下的時間都給你謝謝委員謝謝你就把它講到完你還有一分半請委員繼續執行我想先看一下先看一下嗯\n\n18\n00:07:00,267 --> 00:07:26,937\n看一下那個簡報我們第三簡報三的部分我想是這個樣子再下一個下一個在很多的時候大部分的時候很多的這個解釋都被當作是醫療效能去處理在你們認定的時候因為有很多的這個醫療背景的專業人士在裡面\n\n19\n00:07:27,617 --> 00:07:48,359\n那健康效應的這個佔用的範圍就只有一點點所以這是本席要去提醒你們的一個很簡單的一個圖那我想今天的一個討論跟署長可能還是沒有交集但是他做了一個很好的示範\n\n20\n00:07:49,460 --> 00:08:12,546\n就是如果在未來相關單位在對於這個認定的時候能不能像署長這樣子那我想有時候很多的時候是會變成自己的那個標準會有一個新政在那邊它變成是一個模糊到讓人家讓業者無所適從的一個狀態\n\n21\n00:08:16,067 --> 00:08:32,131\n所以我今天特別要提這個案例那但是可能這個案例呢在署長眼裡看來是沒有問題的但是可能換了一個人這個案例可能就有問題了好所以我想要特別提醒的是說\n\n22\n00:08:34,522 --> 00:08:51,555\n在希望在未來這個食品安全衛生管理辦法第28條的第一項第二款的規定食品不得為醫療效能的標示宣傳或廣告好那你們把這個食品跟宣傳的廣告全部納入不得為這個醫療效能的範圍\n\n23\n00:08:53,716 --> 00:09:21,599\n但是在認定準則的時候又全部把健康視為醫療我想這個是大部分的人他們所會會犯的一個問題所以我想要在這裡很懇求兩位非常專業的這個老師跟學生現在都出塞啊可以好好的去面對檢視放下你們專業的傲慢好好的去面對真的就是有這樣子的問題那\n\n24\n00:09:23,806 --> 00:09:44,609\n如果如果署長認為我想我想如果署長認為說本期今天提出的這樣子的一個建議在你們的專業角度看來仍然是\n\n25\n00:09:45,848 --> 00:10:09,589\n很卑微的或者是不夠水準的那不管怎麼樣我想這個國會殿堂我也請你可以比較再更莊重一點我想我們是夥伴是好朋友但是我想站在一個良心的建議我還是會建議您修正一下您在台上的態度\n\n26\n00:10:13,069 --> 00:10:17,078\n那上次有說兩個月內你們要把這個\n\n27\n00:10:19,983 --> 00:10:42,863\n你們要把整個的這個就是說健康效應跟醫療效能如何分清楚要把它定清楚不要讓大家無所適從那麼其實本席發現母法也有一些問題那我想今天時間不夠我就把這個母法的問題讓你們帶回去你們回去好好的研究一下所以\n\n28\n00:10:43,243 --> 00:10:57,758\n我想在這邊我做個結論你們還是好好的去檢視一下或許不同的人在檢視有不同的結果就是剛剛我提了這個國建署跟教育部的廣告說清楚他們的用詞到底違不違法\n\n29\n00:10:58,959 --> 00:11:26,497\n那再来就是说修订认定准则然后参考国际范围允许科学证据支持健康宣称别在一杆子打翻所有的健康食品再来我希望你们可以再次的宣示就是说告诉全民你们什么时候会改进这套落后的法规因为大家等不及了这个时间点两个月都可以真正的完成吗\n\n30\n00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:50,983\n我們,謝謝委員,我想這個其實是在追求健康裡面,我們要以時計進的一個處理。我們會,剛剛委員的指示,我們會來做。如果牽涉到法需要再澄清的話,可能要稍微比較多一點時間。\n\n31\n00:11:51,803 --> 00:12:15,599\n但是我們怎麼做我想我們在這段時間裡面就會最快的速度跟委員報告我想是這樣健康是人民的權利啦也不是衛福部的專利那現在都是AI的時代了那我們要怎麼樣吃得健康那也有權利知道就是說怎麼樣吃得健康活得更好我想大家不要用過時的這些法規當絆腳石\n\n32\n00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:42,408\n好那有很多的知識常識我們可以從這個很多的這個source裡面得到一些答案所以我想兩位可以給本席一個很清楚的一個答覆我們希望這個改變修正可以不要再拖延好我們一定馬上來立即來檢討最壞的適度如果有什麼進度都會跟委員報告好謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳寗委員的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5796\t7718\t好 謝謝主席 那個麻煩部長跟食藥署長部長\n18081\t37677\t大家好我想今天本席要再次質詢衛福部跟食藥署就是把食品廣告、健康效應通通當成是醫療效能的這件事情我想這不只是法規上的荒謬更是根本就是說對我們全民健康的一個霸權壟斷\n39718\t65219\t本席在上個月16號質詢的時候就有講過食品及藥物廣告標示及醫療效能認定的準則把健康跟醫療畫上等號那害得業者動輒得救那人民追求健康的權利被剝奪今天我就用兩個實例來檢驗你們的邏輯看看你們的標準到底有多離譜也希望今天我跟署長的對話可以有交集\n67320\t92886\t我們第一個案例好來看一下這是國建署的這個案例那這個國建署算是你們自己人好國建署的部分在這個他們補助的廣告寫著清胃腸代謝好那請問這個邱部長跟江署長這句話有沒有問題代謝好是健康效應還是你們說的這個醫療效能\n97284\t126716\t就是剛剛講啊這個代謝好是健康效應還是你們講的醫療效能跟委員做進一步報告這個清腸胃跟代謝好它是一種抽象的一個概念那對於這個抽象的概念裡面提到的是腸胃道假如是長期有些便祕的狀況呢假如是有蔬菜的話是有膳食纖維它可以有機會能夠讓我們的排便能夠更順暢那代謝好呢那其實\n127336\t144221\t我們裡面蔬菜的膳食纖維對於血糖的穩定度是非常非常高的它可以減緩我們血糖吸收的速度對於血糖的波動是這樣因為血糖的波動叫做Glucose Bar Sugar Oscillation就是波動 波動的越高 高高低低我簡單這樣問啦 我簡單這樣問齁國健署這樣子的廣告該不該罰\n149895\t169445\t我想這個齁它是抽象概念對蔬菜的這個增進而且每日五蔬果蔬果五七九這件事情我們覺得這個特供是非常非常好的如果說是業者這樣寫的話你們就不會罰了是不是也是抽象概念我們對於廣告的名詞上面其實我們都是正面表列說哪些\n170265\t194914\t所以根據食品安全衛生管理法第28條食品不得宣稱醫療效能也就是不能說治療或預防疾病可是輕胃腸你說治療便祕Constipation的話就是不行的如果說治療便祕就不行它叫輕腸胃這個問題是抽象的概念裡面能夠去做它可以達到因為這個東西呢\n195874\t209691\t所有吃進去看得到的照片裡面都會增加我們糞便的殘渣這糞便殘渣就會讓我們的水類能夠保存避免便秘現在你講的就是國健署就是不用法這樣的案例是不用法他沒有宣稱醫療效能好\n214810\t234691\t可以那大家把這個記住來再來看這個案例2教育部的膳食纖維預防腸道疾病的廣告這個廣告的案例就更誇張了教育部推廣健康飲食說多吃含纖維食物可以預防腸道疾病及控制血糖\n235231\t254033\t這句話呢就直接踩到你們認定的這個準則第五條第一項的紅線宣稱預防疾病和控制血糖這完全根本就是醫療效能不是嗎那我想問的是說教育部這個廣告應該就違法吧按照你們標準那他該不該罰呢還是又很抽象\n255049\t282501\t我這邊跟委員做進一步說明從整體來看你看到1、2、3、4、5裡面各項裡面把裡面重要的去說明之後每一項提到的是重要的含膳食纖維的概念在底下那膳食纖維概念底下畫了腸道裡面有畫了那個應該是小細菌的代表的感覺降低血中膽固醇預防心血管疾病\n288669\t311859\t報告委員 上面寫的那個降低續航或改善便祕好 跟委員特別說明一下他沒有任何產品 產品沒有在裡面啦這裡面是沒有產品的 廣告是要做產品的一個我們是針對特別產品的但是你們的食品 食品 在講食品\n313027\t330849\t也是一樣的我的意思是說如果是一個特定的產品它的廣告針對裡面的所有的論述這邊特別跟委員說明一下有助血糖的控制它裡面提到的是一種我們針對這個它不會說我可以治療糖尿病這個不行\n333031\t360646\t預防便祕改善便祕的情形這裡面的是改善他沒有特別提到說我可以治療便祕治療的話就是所謂的我們剛才講的醫療療效接下來呢他提到如果今天如果今天在你們的認定每個人都可以像署長這樣子的話我想爭議可能就會少很多了吧但是問題是事實上可能不是這個樣子\n362229\t386727\t謝謝委員這邊的跟我們提醒我們對於業者所有的廣告我們很積極的做所謂以輔導代替裁罰是我們要去做的那我們最近有一件事先跟委員報告一下我們特別的連這些媒體的平台特別的希望我們來一起來能夠協作我剛來立法院你可能還不是很懂規矩就是\n391311\t418305\t本席在問話的時候你還要一直搶答那我剩下的時間都交給你你繼續講我剩下的時間都給你謝謝委員謝謝你就把它講到完你還有一分半請委員繼續執行我想先看一下先看一下嗯\n420267\t446937\t看一下那個簡報我們第三簡報三的部分我想是這個樣子再下一個下一個在很多的時候大部分的時候很多的這個解釋都被當作是醫療效能去處理在你們認定的時候因為有很多的這個醫療背景的專業人士在裡面\n447617\t468359\t那健康效應的這個佔用的範圍就只有一點點所以這是本席要去提醒你們的一個很簡單的一個圖那我想今天的一個討論跟署長可能還是沒有交集但是他做了一個很好的示範\n469460\t492546\t就是如果在未來相關單位在對於這個認定的時候能不能像署長這樣子那我想有時候很多的時候是會變成自己的那個標準會有一個新政在那邊它變成是一個模糊到讓人家讓業者無所適從的一個狀態\n496067\t512131\t所以我今天特別要提這個案例那但是可能這個案例呢在署長眼裡看來是沒有問題的但是可能換了一個人這個案例可能就有問題了好所以我想要特別提醒的是說\n514522\t531555\t在希望在未來這個食品安全衛生管理辦法第28條的第一項第二款的規定食品不得為醫療效能的標示宣傳或廣告好那你們把這個食品跟宣傳的廣告全部納入不得為這個醫療效能的範圍\n533716\t561599\t但是在認定準則的時候又全部把健康視為醫療我想這個是大部分的人他們所會會犯的一個問題所以我想要在這裡很懇求兩位非常專業的這個老師跟學生現在都出塞啊可以好好的去面對檢視放下你們專業的傲慢好好的去面對真的就是有這樣子的問題那\n563806\t584609\t如果如果署長認為我想我想如果署長認為說本期今天提出的這樣子的一個建議在你們的專業角度看來仍然是\n585848\t609589\t很卑微的或者是不夠水準的那不管怎麼樣我想這個國會殿堂我也請你可以比較再更莊重一點我想我們是夥伴是好朋友但是我想站在一個良心的建議我還是會建議您修正一下您在台上的態度\n613069\t617078\t那上次有說兩個月內你們要把這個\n619983\t642863\t你們要把整個的這個就是說健康效應跟醫療效能如何分清楚要把它定清楚不要讓大家無所適從那麼其實本席發現母法也有一些問題那我想今天時間不夠我就把這個母法的問題讓你們帶回去你們回去好好的研究一下所以\n643243\t657758\t我想在這邊我做個結論你們還是好好的去檢視一下或許不同的人在檢視有不同的結果就是剛剛我提了這個國建署跟教育部的廣告說清楚他們的用詞到底違不違法\n658959\t686497\t那再来就是说修订认定准则然后参考国际范围允许科学证据支持健康宣称别在一杆子打翻所有的健康食品再来我希望你们可以再次的宣示就是说告诉全民你们什么时候会改进这套落后的法规因为大家等不及了这个时间点两个月都可以真正的完成吗\n689540\t710983\t我們,謝謝委員,我想這個其實是在追求健康裡面,我們要以時計進的一個處理。我們會,剛剛委員的指示,我們會來做。如果牽涉到法需要再澄清的話,可能要稍微比較多一點時間。\n711803\t735599\t但是我們怎麼做 我想我們在這段時間裡面就會最快的速度跟委員報告我想是這樣 健康是人民的權利啦也不是衛福部的專利那現在都是AI的時代了那我們要怎麼樣吃得健康那也有權利知道就是說怎麼樣吃得健康 活得更好我想大家不要用過時的這些法規當絆腳石\n736960\t762408\t好那有很多的知識常識我們可以從這個很多的這個source裡面得到一些答案所以我想兩位可以給本席一個很清楚的一個答覆我們希望這個改變修正可以不要再拖延好我們一定馬上來立即來檢討最壞的適度如果有什麼進度都會跟委員報告好謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳寗委員的質詢\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那個麻煩部長跟食藥署長部長\n大家好我想今天本席要再次質詢衛福部跟食藥署就是把食品廣告、健康效應通通當成是醫療效能的這件事情我想這不只是法規上的荒謬更是根本就是說對我們全民健康的一個霸權壟斷\n本席在上個月16號質詢的時候就有講過食品及藥物廣告標示及醫療效能認定的準則把健康跟醫療畫上等號那害得業者動輒得救那人民追求健康的權利被剝奪今天我就用兩個實例來檢驗你們的邏輯看看你們的標準到底有多離譜也希望今天我跟署長的對話可以有交集\n我們第一個案例好來看一下這是國建署的這個案例那這個國建署算是你們自己人好國建署的部分在這個他們補助的廣告寫著清胃腸代謝好那請問這個邱部長跟江署長這句話有沒有問題代謝好是健康效應還是你們說的這個醫療效能\n就是剛剛講啊這個代謝好是健康效應還是你們講的醫療效能跟委員做進一步報告這個清腸胃跟代謝好它是一種抽象的一個概念那對於這個抽象的概念裡面提到的是腸胃道假如是長期有些便祕的狀況呢假如是有蔬菜的話是有膳食纖維它可以有機會能夠讓我們的排便能夠更順暢那代謝好呢那其實\n我們裡面蔬菜的膳食纖維對於血糖的穩定度是非常非常高的它可以減緩我們血糖吸收的速度對於血糖的波動是這樣因為血糖的波動叫做Glucose Bar Sugar Oscillation就是波動 波動的越高 高高低低我簡單這樣問啦 我簡單這樣問齁國健署這樣子的廣告該不該罰\n我想這個齁它是抽象概念對蔬菜的這個增進而且每日五蔬果蔬果五七九這件事情我們覺得這個特供是非常非常好的如果說是業者這樣寫的話你們就不會罰了是不是也是抽象概念我們對於廣告的名詞上面其實我們都是正面表列說哪些\n所以根據食品安全衛生管理法第28條食品不得宣稱醫療效能也就是不能說治療或預防疾病可是輕胃腸你說治療便祕Constipation的話就是不行的如果說治療便祕就不行它叫輕腸胃這個問題是抽象的概念裡面能夠去做它可以達到因為這個東西呢\n所有吃進去看得到的照片裡面都會增加我們糞便的殘渣這糞便殘渣就會讓我們的水類能夠保存避免便秘現在你講的就是國健署就是不用法這樣的案例是不用法他沒有宣稱醫療效能好\n可以那大家把這個記住來再來看這個案例2教育部的膳食纖維預防腸道疾病的廣告這個廣告的案例就更誇張了教育部推廣健康飲食說多吃含纖維食物可以預防腸道疾病及控制血糖\n這句話呢就直接踩到你們認定的這個準則第五條第一項的紅線宣稱預防疾病和控制血糖這完全根本就是醫療效能不是嗎那我想問的是說教育部這個廣告應該就違法吧按照你們標準那他該不該罰呢還是又很抽象\n我這邊跟委員做進一步說明從整體來看你看到1、2、3、4、5裡面各項裡面把裡面重要的去說明之後每一項提到的是重要的含膳食纖維的概念在底下那膳食纖維概念底下畫了腸道裡面有畫了那個應該是小細菌的代表的感覺降低血中膽固醇預防心血管疾病\n報告委員 上面寫的那個降低續航或改善便祕好 跟委員特別說明一下他沒有任何產品 產品沒有在裡面啦這裡面是沒有產品的 廣告是要做產品的一個我們是針對特別產品的但是你們的食品 食品 在講食品\n也是一樣的我的意思是說如果是一個特定的產品它的廣告針對裡面的所有的論述這邊特別跟委員說明一下有助血糖的控制它裡面提到的是一種我們針對這個它不會說我可以治療糖尿病這個不行\n預防便祕改善便祕的情形這裡面的是改善他沒有特別提到說我可以治療便祕治療的話就是所謂的我們剛才講的醫療療效接下來呢他提到如果今天如果今天在你們的認定每個人都可以像署長這樣子的話我想爭議可能就會少很多了吧但是問題是事實上可能不是這個樣子\n謝謝委員這邊的跟我們提醒我們對於業者所有的廣告我們很積極的做所謂以輔導代替裁罰是我們要去做的那我們最近有一件事先跟委員報告一下我們特別的連這些媒體的平台特別的希望我們來一起來能夠協作我剛來立法院你可能還不是很懂規矩就是\n本席在問話的時候你還要一直搶答那我剩下的時間都交給你你繼續講我剩下的時間都給你謝謝委員謝謝你就把它講到完你還有一分半請委員繼續執行我想先看一下先看一下嗯\n看一下那個簡報我們第三簡報三的部分我想是這個樣子再下一個下一個在很多的時候大部分的時候很多的這個解釋都被當作是醫療效能去處理在你們認定的時候因為有很多的這個醫療背景的專業人士在裡面\n那健康效應的這個佔用的範圍就只有一點點所以這是本席要去提醒你們的一個很簡單的一個圖那我想今天的一個討論跟署長可能還是沒有交集但是他做了一個很好的示範\n就是如果在未來相關單位在對於這個認定的時候能不能像署長這樣子那我想有時候很多的時候是會變成自己的那個標準會有一個新政在那邊它變成是一個模糊到讓人家讓業者無所適從的一個狀態\n所以我今天特別要提這個案例那但是可能這個案例呢在署長眼裡看來是沒有問題的但是可能換了一個人這個案例可能就有問題了好所以我想要特別提醒的是說\n在希望在未來這個食品安全衛生管理辦法第28條的第一項第二款的規定食品不得為醫療效能的標示宣傳或廣告好那你們把這個食品跟宣傳的廣告全部納入不得為這個醫療效能的範圍\n但是在認定準則的時候又全部把健康視為醫療我想這個是大部分的人他們所會會犯的一個問題所以我想要在這裡很懇求兩位非常專業的這個老師跟學生現在都出塞啊可以好好的去面對檢視放下你們專業的傲慢好好的去面對真的就是有這樣子的問題那\n如果如果署長認為我想我想如果署長認為說本期今天提出的這樣子的一個建議在你們的專業角度看來仍然是\n很卑微的或者是不夠水準的那不管怎麼樣我想這個國會殿堂我也請你可以比較再更莊重一點我想我們是夥伴是好朋友但是我想站在一個良心的建議我還是會建議您修正一下您在台上的態度\n那上次有說兩個月內你們要把這個\n你們要把整個的這個就是說健康效應跟醫療效能如何分清楚要把它定清楚不要讓大家無所適從那麼其實本席發現母法也有一些問題那我想今天時間不夠我就把這個母法的問題讓你們帶回去你們回去好好的研究一下所以\n我想在這邊我做個結論你們還是好好的去檢視一下或許不同的人在檢視有不同的結果就是剛剛我提了這個國建署跟教育部的廣告說清楚他們的用詞到底違不違法\n那再来就是说修订认定准则然后参考国际范围允许科学证据支持健康宣称别在一杆子打翻所有的健康食品再来我希望你们可以再次的宣示就是说告诉全民你们什么时候会改进这套落后的法规因为大家等不及了这个时间点两个月都可以真正的完成吗\n我們,謝謝委員,我想這個其實是在追求健康裡面,我們要以時計進的一個處理。我們會,剛剛委員的指示,我們會來做。如果牽涉到法需要再澄清的話,可能要稍微比較多一點時間。\n但是我們怎麼做 我想我們在這段時間裡面就會最快的速度跟委員報告我想是這樣 健康是人民的權利啦也不是衛福部的專利那現在都是AI的時代了那我們要怎麼樣吃得健康那也有權利知道就是說怎麼樣吃得健康 活得更好我想大家不要用過時的這些法規當絆腳石\n好那有很多的知識常識我們可以從這個很多的這個source裡面得到一些答案所以我想兩位可以給本席一個很清楚的一個答覆我們希望這個改變修正可以不要再拖延好我們一定馬上來立即來檢討最壞的適度如果有什麼進度都會跟委員報告好謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳寗委員的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.796 --> 00:07.718\n好謝謝主席那個麻煩部長跟食藥署長部長\n\n00:18.081 --> 00:37.677\n大家好我想今天本席要再次質詢衛福部跟食藥署就是把食品廣告、健康效應通通當成是醫療效能的這件事情我想這不只是法規上的荒謬更是根本就是說對我們全民健康的一個霸權壟斷\n\n00:39.718 --> 01:05.219\n本席在上個月16號質詢的時候就有講過食品及藥物廣告標示及醫療效能認定的準則把健康跟醫療畫上等號那害得業者動輒得救那人民追求健康的權利被剝奪今天我就用兩個實例來檢驗你們的邏輯看看你們的標準到底有多離譜也希望今天我跟署長的對話可以有交集\n\n01:07.320 --> 01:32.886\n我們第一個案例好來看一下這是國建署的這個案例那這個國建署算是你們自己人好國建署的部分在這個他們補助的廣告寫著清胃腸代謝好那請問這個邱部長跟江署長這句話有沒有問題代謝好是健康效應還是你們說的這個醫療效能\n\n01:37.284 --> 02:06.716\n就是剛剛講啊這個代謝好是健康效應還是你們講的醫療效能跟委員做進一步報告這個清腸胃跟代謝好它是一種抽象的一個概念那對於這個抽象的概念裡面提到的是腸胃道假如是長期有些便祕的狀況呢假如是有蔬菜的話是有膳食纖維它可以有機會能夠讓我們的排便能夠更順暢那代謝好呢那其實\n\n02:07.336 --> 02:24.221\n我們裡面蔬菜的膳食纖維對於血糖的穩定度是非常非常高的它可以減緩我們血糖吸收的速度對於血糖的波動是這樣因為血糖的波動叫做GlucoseBarSugarOscillation就是波動波動的越高高高低低我簡單這樣問啦我簡單這樣問齁國健署這樣子的廣告該不該罰\n\n02:29.895 --> 02:49.445\n我想這個齁它是抽象概念對蔬菜的這個增進而且每日五蔬果蔬果五七九這件事情我們覺得這個特供是非常非常好的如果說是業者這樣寫的話你們就不會罰了是不是也是抽象概念我們對於廣告的名詞上面其實我們都是正面表列說哪些\n\n02:50.265 --> 03:14.914\n所以根據食品安全衛生管理法第28條食品不得宣稱醫療效能也就是不能說治療或預防疾病可是輕胃腸你說治療便祕Constipation的話就是不行的如果說治療便祕就不行它叫輕腸胃這個問題是抽象的概念裡面能夠去做它可以達到因為這個東西呢\n\n03:15.874 --> 03:29.691\n所有吃進去看得到的照片裡面都會增加我們糞便的殘渣這糞便殘渣就會讓我們的水類能夠保存避免便秘現在你講的就是國健署就是不用法這樣的案例是不用法他沒有宣稱醫療效能好\n\n03:34.810 --> 03:54.691\n可以那大家把這個記住來再來看這個案例2教育部的膳食纖維預防腸道疾病的廣告這個廣告的案例就更誇張了教育部推廣健康飲食說多吃含纖維食物可以預防腸道疾病及控制血糖\n\n03:55.231 --> 04:14.033\n這句話呢就直接踩到你們認定的這個準則第五條第一項的紅線宣稱預防疾病和控制血糖這完全根本就是醫療效能不是嗎那我想問的是說教育部這個廣告應該就違法吧按照你們標準那他該不該罰呢還是又很抽象\n\n04:15.049 --> 04:42.501\n我這邊跟委員做進一步說明從整體來看你看到1、2、3、4、5裡面各項裡面把裡面重要的去說明之後每一項提到的是重要的含膳食纖維的概念在底下那膳食纖維概念底下畫了腸道裡面有畫了那個應該是小細菌的代表的感覺降低血中膽固醇預防心血管疾病\n\n04:48.669 --> 05:11.859\n報告委員上面寫的那個降低續航或改善便祕好跟委員特別說明一下他沒有任何產品產品沒有在裡面啦這裡面是沒有產品的廣告是要做產品的一個我們是針對特別產品的但是你們的食品食品在講食品\n\n05:13.027 --> 05:30.849\n也是一樣的我的意思是說如果是一個特定的產品它的廣告針對裡面的所有的論述這邊特別跟委員說明一下有助血糖的控制它裡面提到的是一種我們針對這個它不會說我可以治療糖尿病這個不行\n\n05:33.031 --> 06:00.646\n預防便祕改善便祕的情形這裡面的是改善他沒有特別提到說我可以治療便祕治療的話就是所謂的我們剛才講的醫療療效接下來呢他提到如果今天如果今天在你們的認定每個人都可以像署長這樣子的話我想爭議可能就會少很多了吧但是問題是事實上可能不是這個樣子\n\n06:02.229 --> 06:26.727\n謝謝委員這邊的跟我們提醒我們對於業者所有的廣告我們很積極的做所謂以輔導代替裁罰是我們要去做的那我們最近有一件事先跟委員報告一下我們特別的連這些媒體的平台特別的希望我們來一起來能夠協作我剛來立法院你可能還不是很懂規矩就是\n\n06:31.311 --> 06:58.305\n本席在問話的時候你還要一直搶答那我剩下的時間都交給你你繼續講我剩下的時間都給你謝謝委員謝謝你就把它講到完你還有一分半請委員繼續執行我想先看一下先看一下嗯\n\n07:00.267 --> 07:26.937\n看一下那個簡報我們第三簡報三的部分我想是這個樣子再下一個下一個在很多的時候大部分的時候很多的這個解釋都被當作是醫療效能去處理在你們認定的時候因為有很多的這個醫療背景的專業人士在裡面\n\n07:27.617 --> 07:48.359\n那健康效應的這個佔用的範圍就只有一點點所以這是本席要去提醒你們的一個很簡單的一個圖那我想今天的一個討論跟署長可能還是沒有交集但是他做了一個很好的示範\n\n07:49.460 --> 08:12.546\n就是如果在未來相關單位在對於這個認定的時候能不能像署長這樣子那我想有時候很多的時候是會變成自己的那個標準會有一個新政在那邊它變成是一個模糊到讓人家讓業者無所適從的一個狀態\n\n08:16.067 --> 08:32.131\n所以我今天特別要提這個案例那但是可能這個案例呢在署長眼裡看來是沒有問題的但是可能換了一個人這個案例可能就有問題了好所以我想要特別提醒的是說\n\n08:34.522 --> 08:51.555\n在希望在未來這個食品安全衛生管理辦法第28條的第一項第二款的規定食品不得為醫療效能的標示宣傳或廣告好那你們把這個食品跟宣傳的廣告全部納入不得為這個醫療效能的範圍\n\n08:53.716 --> 09:21.599\n但是在認定準則的時候又全部把健康視為醫療我想這個是大部分的人他們所會會犯的一個問題所以我想要在這裡很懇求兩位非常專業的這個老師跟學生現在都出塞啊可以好好的去面對檢視放下你們專業的傲慢好好的去面對真的就是有這樣子的問題那\n\n09:23.806 --> 09:44.609\n如果如果署長認為我想我想如果署長認為說本期今天提出的這樣子的一個建議在你們的專業角度看來仍然是\n\n09:45.848 --> 10:09.589\n很卑微的或者是不夠水準的那不管怎麼樣我想這個國會殿堂我也請你可以比較再更莊重一點我想我們是夥伴是好朋友但是我想站在一個良心的建議我還是會建議您修正一下您在台上的態度\n\n10:13.069 --> 10:17.078\n那上次有說兩個月內你們要把這個\n\n10:19.983 --> 10:42.863\n你們要把整個的這個就是說健康效應跟醫療效能如何分清楚要把它定清楚不要讓大家無所適從那麼其實本席發現母法也有一些問題那我想今天時間不夠我就把這個母法的問題讓你們帶回去你們回去好好的研究一下所以\n\n10:43.243 --> 10:57.758\n我想在這邊我做個結論你們還是好好的去檢視一下或許不同的人在檢視有不同的結果就是剛剛我提了這個國建署跟教育部的廣告說清楚他們的用詞到底違不違法\n\n10:58.959 --> 11:26.497\n那再来就是说修订认定准则然后参考国际范围允许科学证据支持健康宣称别在一杆子打翻所有的健康食品再来我希望你们可以再次的宣示就是说告诉全民你们什么时候会改进这套落后的法规因为大家等不及了这个时间点两个月都可以真正的完成吗\n\n11:29.540 --> 11:50.983\n我們,謝謝委員,我想這個其實是在追求健康裡面,我們要以時計進的一個處理。我們會,剛剛委員的指示,我們會來做。如果牽涉到法需要再澄清的話,可能要稍微比較多一點時間。\n\n11:51.803 --> 12:15.599\n但是我們怎麼做我想我們在這段時間裡面就會最快的速度跟委員報告我想是這樣健康是人民的權利啦也不是衛福部的專利那現在都是AI的時代了那我們要怎麼樣吃得健康那也有權利知道就是說怎麼樣吃得健康活得更好我想大家不要用過時的這些法規當絆腳石\n\n12:16.960 --> 12:42.408\n好那有很多的知識常識我們可以從這個很多的這個source裡面得到一些答案所以我想兩位可以給本席一個很清楚的一個答覆我們希望這個改變修正可以不要再拖延好我們一定馬上來立即來檢討最壞的適度如果有什麼進度都會跟委員報告好謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳寗委員的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.796,"end":7.718,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那個麻煩部長跟食藥署長部長"},{"start":18.081,"end":37.677,"text":"大家好我想今天本席要再次質詢衛福部跟食藥署就是把食品廣告、健康效應通通當成是醫療效能的這件事情我想這不只是法規上的荒謬更是根本就是說對我們全民健康的一個霸權壟斷"},{"start":39.718,"end":65.219,"text":"本席在上個月16號質詢的時候就有講過食品及藥物廣告標示及醫療效能認定的準則把健康跟醫療畫上等號那害得業者動輒得救那人民追求健康的權利被剝奪今天我就用兩個實例來檢驗你們的邏輯看看你們的標準到底有多離譜也希望今天我跟署長的對話可以有交集"},{"start":67.32,"end":92.886,"text":"我們第一個案例好來看一下這是國建署的這個案例那這個國建署算是你們自己人好國建署的部分在這個他們補助的廣告寫著清胃腸代謝好那請問這個邱部長跟江署長這句話有沒有問題代謝好是健康效應還是你們說的這個醫療效能"},{"start":97.284,"end":126.716,"text":"就是剛剛講啊這個代謝好是健康效應還是你們講的醫療效能跟委員做進一步報告這個清腸胃跟代謝好它是一種抽象的一個概念那對於這個抽象的概念裡面提到的是腸胃道假如是長期有些便祕的狀況呢假如是有蔬菜的話是有膳食纖維它可以有機會能夠讓我們的排便能夠更順暢那代謝好呢那其實"},{"start":127.336,"end":144.221,"text":"我們裡面蔬菜的膳食纖維對於血糖的穩定度是非常非常高的它可以減緩我們血糖吸收的速度對於血糖的波動是這樣因為血糖的波動叫做Glucose Bar Sugar Oscillation就是波動 波動的越高 高高低低我簡單這樣問啦 我簡單這樣問齁國健署這樣子的廣告該不該罰"},{"start":149.895,"end":169.445,"text":"我想這個齁它是抽象概念對蔬菜的這個增進而且每日五蔬果蔬果五七九這件事情我們覺得這個特供是非常非常好的如果說是業者這樣寫的話你們就不會罰了是不是也是抽象概念我們對於廣告的名詞上面其實我們都是正面表列說哪些"},{"start":170.265,"end":194.914,"text":"所以根據食品安全衛生管理法第28條食品不得宣稱醫療效能也就是不能說治療或預防疾病可是輕胃腸你說治療便祕Constipation的話就是不行的如果說治療便祕就不行它叫輕腸胃這個問題是抽象的概念裡面能夠去做它可以達到因為這個東西呢"},{"start":195.874,"end":209.691,"text":"所有吃進去看得到的照片裡面都會增加我們糞便的殘渣這糞便殘渣就會讓我們的水類能夠保存避免便秘現在你講的就是國健署就是不用法這樣的案例是不用法他沒有宣稱醫療效能好"},{"start":214.81,"end":234.691,"text":"可以那大家把這個記住來再來看這個案例2教育部的膳食纖維預防腸道疾病的廣告這個廣告的案例就更誇張了教育部推廣健康飲食說多吃含纖維食物可以預防腸道疾病及控制血糖"},{"start":235.231,"end":254.033,"text":"這句話呢就直接踩到你們認定的這個準則第五條第一項的紅線宣稱預防疾病和控制血糖這完全根本就是醫療效能不是嗎那我想問的是說教育部這個廣告應該就違法吧按照你們標準那他該不該罰呢還是又很抽象"},{"start":255.049,"end":282.501,"text":"我這邊跟委員做進一步說明從整體來看你看到1、2、3、4、5裡面各項裡面把裡面重要的去說明之後每一項提到的是重要的含膳食纖維的概念在底下那膳食纖維概念底下畫了腸道裡面有畫了那個應該是小細菌的代表的感覺降低血中膽固醇預防心血管疾病"},{"start":288.669,"end":311.859,"text":"報告委員 上面寫的那個降低續航或改善便祕好 跟委員特別說明一下他沒有任何產品 產品沒有在裡面啦這裡面是沒有產品的 廣告是要做產品的一個我們是針對特別產品的但是你們的食品 食品 在講食品"},{"start":313.027,"end":330.849,"text":"也是一樣的我的意思是說如果是一個特定的產品它的廣告針對裡面的所有的論述這邊特別跟委員說明一下有助血糖的控制它裡面提到的是一種我們針對這個它不會說我可以治療糖尿病這個不行"},{"start":333.031,"end":360.646,"text":"預防便祕改善便祕的情形這裡面的是改善他沒有特別提到說我可以治療便祕治療的話就是所謂的我們剛才講的醫療療效接下來呢他提到如果今天如果今天在你們的認定每個人都可以像署長這樣子的話我想爭議可能就會少很多了吧但是問題是事實上可能不是這個樣子"},{"start":362.229,"end":386.727,"text":"謝謝委員這邊的跟我們提醒我們對於業者所有的廣告我們很積極的做所謂以輔導代替裁罰是我們要去做的那我們最近有一件事先跟委員報告一下我們特別的連這些媒體的平台特別的希望我們來一起來能夠協作我剛來立法院你可能還不是很懂規矩就是"},{"start":391.311,"end":418.305,"text":"本席在問話的時候你還要一直搶答那我剩下的時間都交給你你繼續講我剩下的時間都給你謝謝委員謝謝你就把它講到完你還有一分半請委員繼續執行我想先看一下先看一下嗯"},{"start":420.267,"end":446.937,"text":"看一下那個簡報我們第三簡報三的部分我想是這個樣子再下一個下一個在很多的時候大部分的時候很多的這個解釋都被當作是醫療效能去處理在你們認定的時候因為有很多的這個醫療背景的專業人士在裡面"},{"start":447.617,"end":468.359,"text":"那健康效應的這個佔用的範圍就只有一點點所以這是本席要去提醒你們的一個很簡單的一個圖那我想今天的一個討論跟署長可能還是沒有交集但是他做了一個很好的示範"},{"start":469.46,"end":492.546,"text":"就是如果在未來相關單位在對於這個認定的時候能不能像署長這樣子那我想有時候很多的時候是會變成自己的那個標準會有一個新政在那邊它變成是一個模糊到讓人家讓業者無所適從的一個狀態"},{"start":496.067,"end":512.131,"text":"所以我今天特別要提這個案例那但是可能這個案例呢在署長眼裡看來是沒有問題的但是可能換了一個人這個案例可能就有問題了好所以我想要特別提醒的是說"},{"start":514.522,"end":531.555,"text":"在希望在未來這個食品安全衛生管理辦法第28條的第一項第二款的規定食品不得為醫療效能的標示宣傳或廣告好那你們把這個食品跟宣傳的廣告全部納入不得為這個醫療效能的範圍"},{"start":533.716,"end":561.599,"text":"但是在認定準則的時候又全部把健康視為醫療我想這個是大部分的人他們所會會犯的一個問題所以我想要在這裡很懇求兩位非常專業的這個老師跟學生現在都出塞啊可以好好的去面對檢視放下你們專業的傲慢好好的去面對真的就是有這樣子的問題那"},{"start":563.806,"end":584.609,"text":"如果如果署長認為我想我想如果署長認為說本期今天提出的這樣子的一個建議在你們的專業角度看來仍然是"},{"start":585.848,"end":609.589,"text":"很卑微的或者是不夠水準的那不管怎麼樣我想這個國會殿堂我也請你可以比較再更莊重一點我想我們是夥伴是好朋友但是我想站在一個良心的建議我還是會建議您修正一下您在台上的態度"},{"start":613.069,"end":617.078,"text":"那上次有說兩個月內你們要把這個"},{"start":619.983,"end":642.863,"text":"你們要把整個的這個就是說健康效應跟醫療效能如何分清楚要把它定清楚不要讓大家無所適從那麼其實本席發現母法也有一些問題那我想今天時間不夠我就把這個母法的問題讓你們帶回去你們回去好好的研究一下所以"},{"start":643.243,"end":657.758,"text":"我想在這邊我做個結論你們還是好好的去檢視一下或許不同的人在檢視有不同的結果就是剛剛我提了這個國建署跟教育部的廣告說清楚他們的用詞到底違不違法"},{"start":658.959,"end":686.497,"text":"那再来就是说修订认定准则然后参考国际范围允许科学证据支持健康宣称别在一杆子打翻所有的健康食品再来我希望你们可以再次的宣示就是说告诉全民你们什么时候会改进这套落后的法规因为大家等不及了这个时间点两个月都可以真正的完成吗"},{"start":689.54,"end":710.983,"text":"我們,謝謝委員,我想這個其實是在追求健康裡面,我們要以時計進的一個處理。我們會,剛剛委員的指示,我們會來做。如果牽涉到法需要再澄清的話,可能要稍微比較多一點時間。"},{"start":711.803,"end":735.599,"text":"但是我們怎麼做 我想我們在這段時間裡面就會最快的速度跟委員報告我想是這樣 健康是人民的權利啦也不是衛福部的專利那現在都是AI的時代了那我們要怎麼樣吃得健康那也有權利知道就是說怎麼樣吃得健康 活得更好我想大家不要用過時的這些法規當絆腳石"},{"start":736.96,"end":762.408,"text":"好那有很多的知識常識我們可以從這個很多的這個source裡面得到一些答案所以我想兩位可以給本席一個很清楚的一個答覆我們希望這個改變修正可以不要再拖延好我們一定馬上來立即來檢討最壞的適度如果有什麼進度都會跟委員報告好謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳寗委員的質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1281,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（13時33分）謝謝主席，麻煩部長跟食藥署署長。"],["主席：部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：大家好。今天本席要再次質詢衛福部跟食藥署，就是把食品廣告、健康效應，統統當成是醫療效能的這件事，我想這不只是法規上的荒謬，更是對全民健康的一個霸權壟斷。本席在上個月16日質詢的時候就有講過，食品及藥物廣告標示及醫療效能認定的準則，把健康跟醫療畫上等號，害得業者動輒得救，人民追求健康的權利被剝奪。","今天我就用兩個實例來檢驗你們的邏輯，看看你們的標準到底有多離譜，也希望今天我跟署長的對話可以有交集。第一個案例，這是國健署的案例，國健署算是你們自己人，在他們補助的廣告寫著「清胃腸代謝好」，請問邱部長跟姜署長，這句話有沒有問題？代謝好是健康效應還是你們說的醫療效能？"],["邱部長泰源：是說蔬菜水果可以清胃腸代謝好？"],["陳委員瑩：代謝好是健康效應，還是你們講的醫療效能？"],["姜署長至剛：清腸胃跟代謝好是一種抽象的概念，對於這個抽象的概念提到的是，腸胃道假如長期有些便祕的狀況，蔬菜有膳食纖維，可以有機會讓我們的排便更順暢。至於代謝好，其實蔬菜裡的膳食纖維，對於血糖的穩定度是非常高的，可以減緩我們血糖吸收的速度，因為血糖的波動叫做Glucose的Blood Sugar Oscillation，就是波動，波動得越高，高高低低是不好的。"],["陳委員瑩：我簡單這樣問，國健署這樣子的廣告該不該罰？"],["姜署長至剛：我想這個是抽象概念，對蔬菜的增進，而且每日五蔬果，蔬果五七九這件事情，我們覺得這個推廣是非常好的。"],["陳委員瑩：所以抽象概念聽起來是有一點空間，如果是業者這樣寫的話，你們就不會罰了，是不是也是抽象概念？"],["姜署長至剛：我們對於廣告名詞其實都是正面表列，說哪些不適合的地方有……"],["陳委員瑩：根據食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條，食品不得宣稱醫療效能，也就是不能說治療或預防疾病，可是清胃腸……"],["姜署長至剛：你說治療便祕，Constipation的話就不行了，如果說治療便祕就不行，清腸胃則是抽象的概念，能夠去做、可以達到。因為所有吃進去，看得到的照片裡面，都會增加我們糞便的殘渣，這些糞便殘渣就會讓我們的水分能夠保存，避免便祕。"],["陳委員瑩：現在你講的就是國健署不用罰，這樣的案例是不用罰。"],["姜署長至剛：他沒有宣稱醫療效能。"],["陳委員瑩：好，可以，大家把這個記住，再來看案例二，教育部的膳食纖維預防腸道疾病的廣告。這個廣告案例就更誇張了，教育部推廣健康飲食，說多吃含纖維食物可以預防腸道疾病及控制血糖。這句話就直接踩到你們認定的準則第五條第一項的紅線，宣稱預防疾病和控制血糖，這完全就是醫療效能不是嗎？我想問的是，教育部這個廣告應該是違法，按照你們標準，他該不該罰呢？還是又很抽象？"],["姜署長至剛：從整體來看，你看到1、2、3、4、5裡面，把裡面各項重要的說明之後，每一項提到的是重要的含膳食纖維的概念，在這個概念底下，他畫了腸道裡面，那個應該是小細菌代表的感覺……"],["陳委員瑩：降低血中膽固醇、預防心血管疾病？"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，上面寫的降低血中膽固醇……"],["陳委員瑩：預防或改善便祕、有助於血糖控制？"],["姜署長至剛：他沒有任何產品，這裡面是沒有產品的，廣告是要做產品的一個……我們是針對特別產品的。"],["陳委員瑩：但是你們的食品，食品在講食品也是一樣的。"],["姜署長至剛：我的意思是說，如果是一個特定的產品，他的廣告針對裡面所有的論述，例如有助血糖的控制，他裡面提到的是一種，我們針對這個，他不會說我可以治療糖尿病，這個不行。預防便祕、改善便祕的情形，這裡面的是改善，他沒有特別提到說我可以治療便祕，治療的話就是剛剛所謂的醫療療效，接下來他提到降低膽固醇……"],["陳委員瑩：如果今天你們的認定，每個人都可以像署長這樣的話，我想爭議可能就會少很多了吧！但問題是，實務上可能不是這樣子。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員的提醒，我們對於業者所有的廣告，我們很積極在做所謂的以輔導代替裁罰，是我們要去做的。"],["陳委員瑩：我想是這樣，因為這樣看起來……"],["姜署長至剛：最近有一件事特別跟委員報告一下，連這些媒體的平臺，都特別希望我們一起來協作……"],["陳委員瑩：我想署長你剛來立法院，你可能還不是很懂規矩，本席在問話的時候，你還要一直搶答，那我剩下的時間都交給你，你繼續講，我剩下的時間都給你。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：你就把它講完，你還有一分半。"],["邱部長泰源：請委員繼續質詢。"],["陳委員瑩：看一下簡報。很多時候你們在認定時，都把很多解釋當作醫療效能處理，因為裡面有很多具醫療背景的專業人士，所以健康效應的範圍就只有一點點，因此，本席用一個很簡單的圖提醒你們。我想今天跟署長的討論沒有交集，但他做了一個很好的示範，未來如果相關單位在認定上能不能像署長這樣子？很多時候是把標準變成自己的心證，甚至模糊到讓業者無所適從，所以我今天要特別提這個案例，可能這個案例在署長眼裡看來是沒有問題的，但換了一個人這個案例可能就有問題了。所以我要特別提醒的是，食品安全衛生管理辦法第二十八條第一項第二款規定，食品不得為醫療效能的標示宣傳或廣告，你們把食品跟宣傳廣告全部納入不得為醫療效能範圍，但在認定準則時，又把健康視為醫療，我想這是大部分的人都會犯的一個問題。我在這裡懇求兩位非常專業的老師跟學生，現在你們兩位都出師了，可以好好去面對、檢視，放下你們專業的傲慢，好好去面對真的就是有這樣的問題。或許署長認為本席今天所提出的建議，在你們專業的角度來看是很卑微，甚至是不夠水準的，但不管怎麼樣，在國會殿堂我請你再更莊重一點！我想我們是夥伴，是好朋友，但我良心的建議，您還是要修正一下您在臺上的態度。"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["陳委員瑩：上次有說兩個月內要讓健康效應跟醫療效能如何分清楚來釐清，不要讓大家無所適從。其實本席發現母法也有一些問題，但今天時間不夠，所以我就把母法的問題讓你們帶回去好好研究一下。我在這邊做個結論，你們還是好好去檢視一下，或許不同的人去檢視會有不同的結果。也就是剛剛我提到的，國健署跟教育部的廣告，說清楚那些用詞到底違不違法。再來，修訂認定準則，參考國際範圍，允許科學證據，支持健康宣稱，別再一竿子打翻所有的健康食品。接著，我希望你們可以再次宣示並告訴全民，你們什麼時候會改進這套落後的法規？因為大家等不及了，兩個月可以真正完成嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，在追求健康時，我們需要與時俱進的處理，我們會依照剛剛委員的指示去做，如果牽涉到法且需要再澄清的話，可能需要多一點時間。至於怎麼做，我想在這段時間裡我們會以最快的速度跟委員報告。"],["陳委員瑩：是這樣子啦，健康是人民的權利，也不是衛福部的專利，現在是AI時代了，所以我們有權利知道怎麼樣吃得健康，活得更好，大家不要用過時的法規當絆腳石，很多的知識、常識可以從很多的搜尋得到答案。希望兩位可以給本席很清楚的答復，也希望這個改變與修正不要再拖延，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定馬上、立即來檢討，以最快的速度。如果有什麼進度，都會跟委員報告。"],["陳委員瑩：謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員的質詢，謝謝部長。","洪孟楷、洪孟楷，洪孟楷委員不在。","張啓楷、張啓楷，張啓楷委員不在。","鄭天財、鄭天財，鄭天財委員不在。","本日會議詢答全部結束；委員徐欣瑩、廖偉翔所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員徐欣瑩書面質詢：","危局下的警鐘─堅守食安防線，捍衛農民權益，重塑國家利益","美國貿易代表署（USTR）近期公布的《2025年對外貿易障礙評估報告》（NTE），以及伴隨而來的，高達32%「對等關稅」的潛在威脅。","美國再次點名我國對美豬、美牛、基改食品、稻米、馬鈴薯等多項農產品的進口管制措施，稱其為「不必要的貿易障礙」。恰逢美國政府準備宣布其「對等關稅」計畫，其意圖：利用巨大的經濟壓力，迫使台灣在食品安全與農業保護的底線上做出讓步。","我們是否有權力，為國人的健康，制定符合自身國情的食品安全標準？","我們是否有責任，保護辛苦耕耘的農民，讓他們得以安身立命？","我們是否有能力，在複雜的國際關係中，堅守國家的主體性與尊嚴？","維持穩定且互惠的台美關係，對台灣的經濟發展與國家安全至關重要。然而，國家整體利益，絕不能被簡化為對單一強權要求的屈從，更不能以犧牲國人的健康與農業的未來作為代價。","食品安全是人民健康的基石，農業是國家永續的命脈，這是我們的「國本」，是絕對不容交易、不容退讓的底線。","第一道防線：食安標準，寸步不讓","食品安全，是政府對人民最基本、也最莊嚴的承諾。面對美方以「零關稅」為誘餌，要求我國放寬食安標準的壓力，我們必須堅守第一道防線，寸步不讓。","第二道防線：農業命脈，不容斷絕","農業，不僅提供我們每日所需的糧食，更是穩定社會、維護生態、傳承文化的基石。若為了換取短期的貿易利益，而犧牲掉台灣農業的永續發展，無疑是飲鴆止渴，將對國家造成難以彌補的傷害。","第三道防線：國家利益，重新定義","長久以來，美豬美牛議題始終被包裹在「台美經貿關係」的框架下討論。許多論述暗示，若不在此議題上讓步，將影響台灣加入區域經濟整合的機會，甚至危及台美關係。","捍衛國本，行動改革─為台灣的永續未來","美豬美牛零關稅的議題，再次將台灣推到了經貿利益與國家根本價值抉擇的十字路口。美方的壓力，源於其追求自身經貿利益最大化的國家戰略；而我們面臨的困境，則來自於長期存在的貿易結構不對等，以及內部政策整合與社會溝通的挑戰。","若我們在此刻選擇了退讓，放鬆了食安的標準，犧牲了農業的根基，那麼我們失去的，將不僅僅是市場的占有率，或是產業的產值，而是國人對政府的信任、農民對土地的信心，以及國家賴以永續發展的根本。我們絕不能以犧牲國內核心利益的方式，去換取不確定、甚至可能不存在的外部利益。"],["委員廖偉翔書面質詢：","案由：","鑑於以下原因，特向衛福部提出書面質詢：","今年迄今台灣醫療機構已發生三起資安事件，造成醫院系統癱瘓、病人及醫護個資外流等不良後果。據報載，衛福部業已定性此類事件並非獨立發生，而是系統性問題。換言之，可能有系統性漏洞存在。試問此系統性漏洞為何？又有何因應措施？","說明：","1.針對馬偕醫院事件檢討報告，除現有措施及加強教育訓練外，有何於此事件發生後之新增措施？","2.針對軟體部分，是否參考美國FDA之SBOM（Software Bill of Materials）標準，導入台版SBOM標準？亦或於初期先採取羅列基本軟體清單，並根據開源與專有軟體做分類，對於未來溯源當責、軟體更新、原始碼漏洞偵測與修補做出預備因應措施？","3.根據FDA等機構要求醫療設備製造商提供之SBOM標準，為產生完整且準確的SBOM，故所有使用的軟體組件（包括二進位檔案和韌體），二進位分析（Binary Analysis）是必要的技術與過程。而基於編譯過程引入風險、可能無法取得原始碼、隱藏惡意程式碼、配置和環境差異……等問題，故除掃描原始碼外，二進位執行檔亦須完成掃描，目前對此是否有考慮採取原始碼與執行碼接掃描分析之措施？","4.食藥署於112年加入並成為國際醫療器材主管機關論壇IMDRF（International Medical Device Regulators Forum）的會員。而IMDRF對會員之SBOM標準要求，基本上採取對標FDA之標準，爰此我國目前食藥署或其他衛福部下轄單位是否有已導入相關標準？"],["主席：現在作以下決定：報告及詢答完畢。委員質詢時未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復；委員另行要求期限者，從其所定。","本次會議到此結束，現在散會，謝謝大家","散會（13時46分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":452,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","楊曜","王正旭","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","劉建國","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","高金素梅","王鴻薇","許宇甄","葉元之","羅廷瑋","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","廖偉翔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、農業部次長、經濟部次長、外交部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判\n代表、行政院食品安全辦公室主任針對「美豬、美牛進口零關稅且如何保障國人食品安全及農民\n權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144101_00005"}}}