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{\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 436.566, \"end\": 436.786, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 436.786, \"end\": 436.986, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 436.986, \"end\": 437.187, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 437.187, \"end\": 437.307, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 437.307, \"end\": 437.467, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 437.467, \"end\": 437.627, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 437.627, \"end\": 437.867, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 437.867, \"end\": 438.948, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 438.948, \"end\": 439.348, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 439.348, \"end\": 439.488, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 439.488, \"end\": 439.669, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 439.669, \"end\": 439.909, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 439.909, \"end\": 440.729, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 440.729, \"end\": 440.829, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 440.829, \"end\": 440.99, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 440.99, \"end\": 441.39, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 441.39, \"end\": 441.55, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 441.55, \"end\": 441.75, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 441.75, \"end\": 441.91, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 441.91, \"end\": 442.07, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 442.07, \"end\": 442.331, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 442.331, \"end\": 442.511, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"搞\", \"start\": 442.511, \"end\": 443.111, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 443.111, \"end\": 443.351, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 443.351, \"end\": 443.371, \"score\": 0.933}]}, {\"start\": 444.318, \"end\": 466.567, \"text\": \"那我覺得這樣是不對的我還是希望走回剛說的後得載物一切以蒼生為念那我們現在談一些民生的議題我想最近我們一直在走綠電綠電有一個伴隨很重要的是儲能廠院長知道嗎 儲能廠 儲電的設備綠電一定要搭配著儲能廠才有意義\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 444.318, \"end\": 444.438, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 444.438, \"end\": 444.758, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 444.758, \"end\": 445.799, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 445.799, \"end\": 445.959, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 445.959, \"end\": 446.399, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 446.399, \"end\": 446.499, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 446.499, \"end\": 446.719, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 446.719, \"end\": 446.839, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 446.839, \"end\": 446.959, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 446.959, \"end\": 447.639, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 447.639, \"end\": 447.779, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 447.779, \"end\": 447.879, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 447.879, \"end\": 447.939, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 447.939, \"end\": 448.68, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 448.68, \"end\": 449.08, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"載\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 449.08, \"end\": 449.34, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 449.34, \"end\": 449.5, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"切\", \"start\": 449.5, \"end\": 449.7, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 449.7, \"end\": 450.18, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"蒼\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 450.18, \"end\": 450.661, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"念\", \"start\": 450.661, \"end\": 451.441, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 451.441, \"end\": 451.641, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 451.641, \"end\": 451.921, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 451.921, \"end\": 452.081, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 452.081, \"end\": 452.181, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 452.181, \"end\": 452.361, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 452.361, \"end\": 452.561, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 452.561, \"end\": 452.741, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 452.741, \"end\": 453.762, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 453.762, \"end\": 453.862, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 453.862, \"end\": 455.122, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 455.122, \"end\": 455.302, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 455.302, \"end\": 455.462, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 455.462, \"end\": 455.702, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 455.702, \"end\": 455.803, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 455.803, \"end\": 455.943, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 455.943, \"end\": 456.723, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 456.723, \"end\": 458.023, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 458.023, \"end\": 458.183, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 458.183, \"end\": 458.424, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"伴\", \"start\": 458.424, \"end\": 458.764, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"隨\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 458.764, \"end\": 458.944, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 458.944, \"end\": 459.124, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 459.124, \"end\": 459.244, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 459.244, \"end\": 459.344, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 459.344, \"end\": 459.664, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 459.664, \"end\": 460.124, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 460.124, \"end\": 460.504, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 460.504, \"end\": 460.624, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 460.624, \"end\": 461.645, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 461.645, \"end\": 462.645, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 462.645, \"end\": 464.526, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 464.526, \"end\": 464.686, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 464.686, \"end\": 464.846, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 464.846, \"end\": 465.106, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"搭\", \"start\": 465.106, \"end\": 465.326, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 465.326, \"end\": 465.646, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 465.646, \"end\": 465.806, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 465.806, \"end\": 466.227, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 466.227, \"end\": 466.367, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 466.367, \"end\": 466.547, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 466.547, \"end\": 466.567, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"義\"}]}, {\"start\": 467.427, \"end\": 485.943, \"text\": \"那我不知道您知不知道在雲林高雄屏東台南有蓋了很多儲能廠但是都發生非常多的抗爭像高雄鳳山那個牛草堡那個儲能廠在2023年2月簽完約之後就開始抗爭就一個月後市府就把他停掉所以\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 467.427, \"end\": 467.868, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 467.868, \"end\": 467.968, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 467.968, \"end\": 468.028, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 468.028, \"end\": 468.088, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 468.088, \"end\": 468.748, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 468.748, \"end\": 468.968, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 468.968, \"end\": 469.089, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 469.089, \"end\": 469.189, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 469.189, \"end\": 469.309, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 469.309, \"end\": 469.489, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 469.489, \"end\": 470.65, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"雲\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 470.65, \"end\": 470.83, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 470.83, \"end\": 471.07, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"雄\", \"start\": 471.07, \"end\": 471.37, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"屏\", \"start\": 471.37, \"end\": 472.792, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 472.792, \"end\": 472.992, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 472.992, \"end\": 473.132, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 473.132, \"end\": 473.492, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"蓋\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 473.492, \"end\": 473.592, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 473.592, \"end\": 473.752, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 473.752, \"end\": 474.053, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 474.053, \"end\": 474.433, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 474.433, \"end\": 474.573, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 474.573, \"end\": 474.693, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 474.693, \"end\": 475.334, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 475.334, \"end\": 475.494, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 475.494, \"end\": 475.574, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 475.574, \"end\": 475.694, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 475.694, \"end\": 475.834, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 480.058, \"end\": 480.798, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 480.798, \"end\": 481.239, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 481.239, \"end\": 481.639, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 481.639, \"end\": 481.999, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 481.999, \"end\": 482.079, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 482.079, \"end\": 482.24, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 482.24, \"end\": 482.5, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 482.5, \"end\": 482.64, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"抗\", \"start\": 482.64, \"end\": 483.26, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 483.26, \"end\": 483.381, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 483.381, \"end\": 483.641, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 483.641, \"end\": 483.801, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 483.801, \"end\": 484.081, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 484.081, \"end\": 484.281, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 484.281, \"end\": 484.421, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 484.421, \"end\": 484.542, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 484.542, \"end\": 484.682, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 484.682, \"end\": 484.802, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 484.802, \"end\": 485.022, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 485.022, \"end\": 485.803, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 485.803, \"end\": 485.923, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 485.923, \"end\": 485.943, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 487.304, \"end\": 513.204, \"text\": \"我看到這有一個問題啦就是大家考量的是安全問題因為離電池包裝有狀況它很容易就會著火所以呢現在的狀況是我看到這個法規非常的混亂主管機關也非常的混亂譬如說工廠要建設備那要環境不環評那地商政府又有地方自治條例那地方自治條例就會要求這些廠商要提供相關的資料那再接下來呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 487.304, \"end\": 487.604, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 487.604, \"end\": 487.764, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 487.764, \"end\": 488.084, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 488.084, \"end\": 488.205, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 488.205, \"end\": 488.845, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 488.845, \"end\": 489.025, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 489.025, \"end\": 489.125, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 489.125, \"end\": 489.265, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 489.265, \"end\": 489.425, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 489.425, \"end\": 489.606, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 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\"地\", \"start\": 508.601, \"end\": 508.681, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 508.681, \"end\": 508.941, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 508.941, \"end\": 509.101, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 509.101, \"end\": 509.261, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 509.261, \"end\": 509.401, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 509.401, \"end\": 509.622, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 509.622, \"end\": 509.842, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 509.842, \"end\": 510.162, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 510.162, \"end\": 510.622, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 510.622, \"end\": 510.783, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 510.783, \"end\": 510.923, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 510.923, \"end\": 511.043, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 511.043, \"end\": 511.243, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 511.243, \"end\": 511.583, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 511.583, \"end\": 511.903, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 511.903, \"end\": 512.344, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 512.344, \"end\": 512.504, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 512.504, \"end\": 512.664, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 512.664, \"end\": 512.844, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 512.844, \"end\": 513.184, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 513.184, \"end\": 513.204, \"score\": 0.97}]}, {\"start\": 514.165, \"end\": 533.585, \"text\": \"申請的文件中又還要有消防主管機關就是內政部消防署他要依據那個提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引的標準去審核然後再來最後才是經濟部標準局他看看有沒有符合國家的標準但是作為主管機關的能源署他卻只有一個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 514.165, \"end\": 514.526, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 514.526, 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{\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 517.849, \"end\": 517.989, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 517.989, \"end\": 518.129, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 518.129, \"end\": 518.27, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 518.27, \"end\": 518.45, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 518.45, \"end\": 518.61, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 518.61, \"end\": 518.75, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 518.75, \"end\": 519.15, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 519.15, \"end\": 519.451, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 519.451, \"end\": 519.651, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 519.651, \"end\": 519.791, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 519.791, \"end\": 520.171, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 520.171, \"end\": 520.352, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 520.352, \"end\": 520.972, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 520.972, \"end\": 521.132, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 521.132, \"end\": 521.233, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 521.233, \"end\": 521.373, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 521.373, \"end\": 521.713, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 521.713, \"end\": 521.853, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 521.853, \"end\": 522.033, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 522.033, \"end\": 522.154, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 522.154, \"end\": 522.334, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 522.334, \"end\": 522.794, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 522.794, \"end\": 523.915, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 523.915, \"end\": 524.316, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 524.316, \"end\": 524.776, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 527.859, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 527.859, \"end\": 527.939, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 527.939, \"end\": 528.04, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 528.04, \"end\": 528.16, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"符\", \"start\": 528.16, \"end\": 528.24, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 528.24, \"end\": 528.54, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 528.54, \"end\": 528.7, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 528.7, \"end\": 529.061, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 529.061, \"end\": 529.481, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 529.481, \"end\": 529.621, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 529.621, \"end\": 529.801, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 529.801, \"end\": 530.102, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 530.102, \"end\": 530.382, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 530.382, \"end\": 531.203, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 531.203, \"end\": 531.743, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 531.743, \"end\": 531.883, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 531.883, \"end\": 532.084, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 532.084, \"end\": 532.925, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 532.925, \"end\": 533.305, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"卻\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 533.305, \"end\": 533.405, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 533.405, \"end\": 533.565, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 533.565, \"end\": 533.585, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 534.506, \"end\": 563.849, \"text\": \"行政命令就是並往行儲能系統設置區域還有設置安全規範它變成它的位階只是行政命令所以這個東西會讓大家反而會去擔心安全性的問題我現在在講的是民進黨政府積極希望推動的綠能綠能需要有儲能廠搭配但是我們對於儲能廠的法規卻主管機關的能源署卻只存在行政命令的階段那我想請教一下這個可不可以去思考去參考像核子反應設施管理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 534.506, \"end\": 534.686, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 534.686, \"end\": 534.866, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 534.866, \"end\": 535.027, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 535.027, \"end\": 535.227, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 535.227, \"end\": 535.367, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 535.367, \"end\": 536.107, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"往\", \"start\": 536.107, \"end\": 536.388, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 536.388, \"end\": 536.808, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"儲\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 536.808, \"end\": 536.968, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 536.968, \"end\": 537.568, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"置\", \"start\": 537.568, \"end\": 537.869, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 537.869, \"end\": 538.049, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 818.707, \"end\": 818.868, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 818.868, \"end\": 819.048, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 819.048, \"end\": 819.668, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"冷\", \"start\": 819.668, \"end\": 819.768, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 819.768, \"end\": 819.828, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 819.828, \"end\": 819.868, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 819.868, \"end\": 819.888, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}]}, {\"start\": 822.31, \"end\": 841.38, \"text\": \"那我想請教一下因為漁民現在也不好過那你們所提到的提升漁船冷凍還有衛生設備啊這個部分有沒有可能是由政府來全額補助因為畢竟現在環保意識抬頭漁民然後海洋一些枯竭的問題漁民不好過\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 822.31, \"end\": 822.43, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 822.43, \"end\": 822.53, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 822.53, \"end\": 822.93, \"score\": 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\"start\": 925.019, \"end\": 925.039, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,121 --> 00:00:13,605\n好謝謝院長那我們麻煩行政院院長麻煩再請左院長備詢院長午安在進入有關民生議題的質疑之前我先放一個短暫的\n\n2\n00:00:33,411 --> 00:00:53,970\n工會的評估如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.7億我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來的還是真的我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n\n3\n00:00:54,210 --> 00:01:03,383\n沒關係啦因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話可以跟我們直接要那我們來跟你做一個比較具體的報告新聞的報告新聞的部分我想\n\n4\n00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:28,939\n院長在這邊先跟院長說明一下因為上次我們在質詢的時候經濟部長質疑我們的數據哪裡來我是認為說我這個人是不接受反質詢我也不認為說官員到國會說謊雖然說大法官認為我國非常特殊的官員到國會說謊沒有責任有別於\n\n5\n00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:43,205\n而一般像日本、美國、韓國等等關於到國會說謊都是很嚴重的負很嚴重的責任甚至刑責其實我們當天的數據來源是經濟部產發署所發布的而且是中央社也有發布所以我當時有說\n\n6\n00:01:44,745 --> 00:02:12,645\n媒體也有而且是經濟部的但是您的閣員您的閣員竟然現場質疑我們的數據哪裡來那當時院長當然我知道院長的角度不可能知道一些很細的數據這我可以了解但是院長您就跟著講說委員雖然言論免責但是不代表可以不用經過查證那我在這邊先跟院長報告一件事情您的官員在您面前卻不說真話\n\n7\n00:02:14,008 --> 00:02:14,590\n那我的數據\n\n8\n00:02:16,004 --> 00:02:42,591\n我們在跟我同仁討論數據的時候我們都再三的去匯聚反覆的去確認數據的來源那在質詢完畢之後我們也再三的確認這數據就是經濟部產發署所提出來在稅事支出評估報告裡面就有那我不懂說一個經濟部長陪著院長到立法院來接受質詢的時候卻可以在院長面前說謊來騙自己的院長長官那讓院長長官也因為錯誤的訊息然後來這邊\n\n9\n00:02:45,492 --> 00:03:03,340\n認為國會的議員呢就算有言論免責也不應該未經查證所以我在這邊先跟院長報告有這件事情那也請院長將來在挑選自己閣員的時候能夠盡量找不會說謊的人那本來今天如果今天經濟部長來我是不會讓他上台因為我不喜歡跟會說謊的人\n\n10\n00:03:04,901 --> 00:03:25,808\n跟他談話那如果說經濟部長覺得自己當時是一時不察記錯數據那也代表了他不是那麼的認真因為他其實來這邊備詢的時候是不是應該要了解數據那我自己也擔任過政務官那我在接受議員質詢的時候確實有些數據我可能也是有點模糊但是我模糊的部分我絕對不會去反駁議員說你這數據哪裡來哪裡弄錯去做這樣不應該的反質詢\n\n11\n00:03:30,450 --> 00:03:47,078\n那以上就是我跟院長報告那請院長在面對這些閣員的時候是不是請閣員上班能夠更認真一點搞清楚自己在做什麼事情好謝謝院長那院長因為最近發生很多事情那我們台灣其實政治太多了民生太少\n\n12\n00:03:48,219 --> 00:04:07,559\n執政黨執政這九年其實我們都覺得說是不是我們應該更關注民生多一點點那我覺得歷史它其實是一個很重要的東西它其實會讓我們去見往知來嘛那我就最近看了一下就是我們的賴總統他當年在當行政院院長的時候其實他有到立法院來拜訪\n\n13\n00:04:08,980 --> 00:04:38,040\n在野黨黨團那在野黨黨團其實就有送他四個字厚德載物那我們是希望說呢我們希望說當時的賴院長對於這個國家的精神就像大地一樣能夠厚實才能夠承載萬物那當然啦賴院長當時也給我們一個非常溫暖的回應他說會更進一步的請教國民黨的寶貴意見希望在重大政策上面能夠朝野合作然後行政院跟立法院也能夠好好的合作\n\n14\n00:04:38,900 --> 00:05:04,994\n這是他當時的一個狀況但是我們看到今天行政院跟立法院其實是蠻強度的對抗那院長您是法律人說真的我以前對院長的印象真的非常非常好院長也是我們所有法律人我覺得甚至是我們偶像標竿級的人那院長之前在民進黨裡面被稱為大師兄不是沒有原因的因為院長其實是講道理\n\n15\n00:05:05,374 --> 00:05:33,836\n而且是非常和氣的人他不會像有些人他就是永遠針鋒相對所以這是院長我一直以來對您的看法是如此所以我在第一次質詢您的時候我有說您是這個我民進黨的大師兄那我也蠻希望您能夠做我們全民的大師兄那我想請院長一個問題最近有一個人說他說大罷免是惡的循環民主政治應該是互相妥協\n\n16\n00:05:36,358 --> 00:05:53,205\n大罷免其實它是浪費社會資源和時間削減台灣的優勢和能量公務員更難置身度外別無選擇他只能跟著走反而造成集體的無力感院長您認不認同這句話大罷免是惡的循環這句話嗎是\n\n17\n00:05:55,287 --> 00:06:09,733\n那要看這個二的循環的起點在哪裡因為我剛剛其實念了整段好吧那沒關係我想講剛剛這句話的人是謝長廷前大使那你以前也被認為是謝系大師兄的領導人物\n\n18\n00:06:11,033 --> 00:06:35,946\n那我也是希望說您跟謝長廷的想法不要有那麼大落差那這段時間我們看到民進黨很多很優秀的前輩像陳水扁呂秀蓮謝長廷林卓水等等的其實都對最近的一些作為發出一些不一樣的建議那我也想說院長我們需要的是大團結不是大惡霸不是大罷免所以我一直希望說我們能不能夠為我們這塊土地台灣\n\n19\n00:06:36,946 --> 00:06:59,741\n台灣是我們的母親台灣她孕育我從小到大都在這塊土地生長所以我也很願意行政立法之間多多的溝通協調我要再次謝謝韓院長兩次促成我們跟黨團都有接觸而且我現在已經安排在下禮拜一我會親自拜訪朝野各黨團希望堅持支持這個特別條例您的想法也是很正向但是做法\n\n20\n00:07:00,714 --> 00:07:23,371\n我是覺得可以再多思考是否我們應該朝向大團結的方向去走因為台灣就這兩千三百五十萬人大家應該要好好的團結一致的對外好那並不能說現在我們眼睛一張開什麼都政治外交的困境也是政治國際關係的問題也是政治國內的民生議題也是政治什麼都搞政治\n\n21\n00:07:24,318 --> 00:07:46,567\n那我覺得這樣是不對的我還是希望走回剛說的後得載物一切以蒼生為念那我們現在談一些民生的議題我想最近我們一直在走綠電綠電有一個伴隨很重要的是儲能廠院長知道嗎儲能廠儲電的設備綠電一定要搭配著儲能廠才有意義\n\n22\n00:07:47,427 --> 00:08:05,943\n那我不知道您知不知道在雲林高雄屏東台南有蓋了很多儲能廠但是都發生非常多的抗爭像高雄鳳山那個牛草堡那個儲能廠在2023年2月簽完約之後就開始抗爭就一個月後市府就把他停掉所以\n\n23\n00:08:07,304 --> 00:08:33,204\n我看到這有一個問題啦就是大家考量的是安全問題因為離電池包裝有狀況它很容易就會著火所以呢現在的狀況是我看到這個法規非常的混亂主管機關也非常的混亂譬如說工廠要建設備那要環境不環評那地商政府又有地方自治條例那地方自治條例就會要求這些廠商要提供相關的資料那再接下來呢\n\n24\n00:08:34,165 --> 00:08:53,585\n申請的文件中又還要有消防主管機關就是內政部消防署他要依據那個提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引的標準去審核然後再來最後才是經濟部標準局他看看有沒有符合國家的標準但是作為主管機關的能源署他卻只有一個\n\n25\n00:08:54,506 --> 00:09:23,849\n行政命令就是並往行儲能系統設置區域還有設置安全規範它變成它的位階只是行政命令所以這個東西會讓大家反而會去擔心安全性的問題我現在在講的是民進黨政府積極希望推動的綠能綠能需要有儲能廠搭配但是我們對於儲能廠的法規卻主管機關的能源署卻只存在行政命令的階段那我想請教一下這個可不可以去思考去參考像核子反應設施管理\n\n26\n00:09:25,286 --> 00:09:44,780\n管治法把他提升到法規範法未接我想請教院長跟委員報告那委員的建立是很具體的那我想這個部分因為儲能的安全會涉及到經濟部以外還有其他的部會的法規那我想我們會後續會參照委員的這個意見我們來找\n\n27\n00:09:48,123 --> 00:10:02,141\n拉高層法律未接不能只是行政命令那院長是不是可以一樣就是找一個政委能夠跨部會的來處理來去做這個儲能法專法的設置我不知道院長您知不知此\n\n28\n00:10:05,417 --> 00:10:32,304\n因為我剛提到嘛你看環境部地方政府消防署經濟部標準局能源局一堆的公務機關但是在能源局他就只是一個行政命令的位階那是不是我們可以找一個這個政委能夠跨部會的來把他提升到法衛階因為這個也是有利於民進黨的綠能政策能源署經濟部現在如果是在處理這個事情上面\n\n29\n00:10:33,724 --> 00:10:55,495\n有遇到跨部會的困難必須其他部會比方土地的取得供給等等那我們會再思考由適當的這個政委來進行協調好那謝謝院長這真的要有一個政委跨部會的來協調這件事情好那我再請問有關農業部的事情我想這個美國關稅一樣它也會影響到我們宜蘭的漁業\n\n30\n00:10:57,947 --> 00:11:24,184\n我想在座一定也知道我們台灣有一個鬼頭刀鬼頭刀它其實主要的捕魚就是宜蘭、台東跟屏東嘛那依據漁業署它112年統計的資料來看鬼頭刀一年是捕獲4000噸然後美國人還蠻愛吃的但是現在我們外銷美國可能會有兩個事情會卡關第一個就是說美國主導海鮮消費它有一個FishChoice的\n\n31\n00:11:24,864 --> 00:11:44,840\n他在網站揭露各國漁種在那個SafetoWatch海洋永續指標的評價台灣的鬼頭刀被評價為避免選購的紅燈那我想請教一下這段時間雖然1月屬有很多改進計畫漁民也在努力也把資料通知美國但是我想請教部長\n\n32\n00:11:46,081 --> 00:12:13,189\n這個SeafoodWatch有沒有把我們的鬼頭島解除紅燈的警示我想跟委員報告就是鬼頭島本身我們它有兩個有一些不同的level的標準那第一個是FIP的部分那現在我們也輔導了很多很多漁民的漁船去針對FIP我知道它有沒有解除紅燈的警告然後還有MSC所以它沒有所謂說是紅燈或是什麼樣子就是說你要輸美國的時候你一定要符合一些認證的標章\n\n33\n00:12:14,569 --> 00:12:24,415\n所以在產業支持的時候我們特別沒關係啦這樣部長如果你不確定這個就我剛剛跟你講你到你去看那個海洋永續那個\n\n34\n00:12:25,106 --> 00:12:52,333\n指標您去看一下目前被列為紅燈而且被評為避免選購的紅燈啦那漁業署要趕快看能不能夠處理把這個解除那這是第一個那第二個呢那個委員我要跟你澄清一下就是說鬼頭刀輸美國他有一些標準然後不符合這個標準的話就不能進口就所謂他的紅燈不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是\n\n35\n00:12:54,334 --> 00:13:18,173\n歸類為避免選購的商品並不是講到我們抓捕獲漁獲的產品怎麼樣所以我不為難你所以我說你先回去看清楚這個網站的評價那第二個就是關稅的問題啦那關稅呢我覺得還是要因為總是現在對等關稅等等的問題出來會不會造成我們鬼頭島更難銷去美國那是不是說農業部還是要向美國農業部\n\n36\n00:13:20,754 --> 00:13:39,888\n一樣就是說要積極的為漁民去談一下那我知道就是上次漁業署在11號本月11號有到那個蘇澳去溝通這件事因為當天我在這邊質詢人沒有辦法過去我知道漁業所提三個方案低周轉金鼓勵外銷到歐盟還有提升冷凍還有那個衛生設備\n\n37\n00:13:42,310 --> 00:14:01,380\n那我想請教一下因為漁民現在也不好過那你們所提到的提升漁船冷凍還有衛生設備啊這個部分有沒有可能是由政府來全額補助因為畢竟現在環保意識抬頭漁民然後海洋一些枯竭的問題漁民不好過\n\n38\n00:14:02,461 --> 00:14:19,648\n那這些漁業設備呢這些船舶設備上面的那個漁會的冷鏈設備這有沒有可能政府來全額補助他來做我跟委員報告我們已經把因為這次美國關稅的影響已經把我們原來的補助標準從50%提升到60%我們有已經有適度的一個提升\n\n39\n00:14:24,875 --> 00:14:41,857\n好吧那就是沒有辦法回答了好那沒關係了那我再跟你提一個就是好吧那另外一件事情至少可以做的就是說我想鬼頭刀這個產品有很多優勢那是不是說可以找那個教育部大家來溝通一下\n\n40\n00:14:42,498 --> 00:15:01,747\n既然他這個魚的這個品質也都被大家所稱讚那是不是可以在那種食魚教育的角度一出發協助漁民漁會把這個帶到校園當作是一個那個食材的選項之一最後我想沒時間了最後還是上架場的問題\n\n41\n00:15:03,447 --> 00:15:25,039\n那個南方澳漁港目前它沒有上架場那導致我們現在南方澳有700多艘船但是我們現在只剩下一家造船廠還能夠提供漁船上架五條那個一船道也只剩下三條能用那兩年一小休五年一大休真的不夠用那麻煩農委會這邊能夠幫忙他們好謝謝好謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢謝謝卓院長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6121\t13605\t好 謝謝院長那我們麻煩行政院院長麻煩再請左院長備詢院長午安在進入有關民生議題的質疑之前我先放一個短暫的\n33411\t53970\t工會的評估 如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.7億我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來的還是真的我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n54210\t63383\t沒關係啦 因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分 委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話 可以跟我們直接要那我們來跟你做一個比較具體的報告新聞的報告 新聞的部分我想\n68300\t88939\t院長在這邊先跟院長說明一下因為上次我們在質詢的時候經濟部長質疑我們的數據哪裡來我是認為說我這個人是不接受反質詢我也不認為說官員到國會說謊雖然說大法官認為我國非常特殊的官員到國會說謊沒有責任有別於\n89600\t103205\t而一般像日本、美國、韓國等等關於到國會說謊都是很嚴重的負很嚴重的責任甚至刑責其實我們當天的數據來源是經濟部產發署所發布的而且是中央社也有發布所以我當時有說\n104745\t132645\t媒體也有而且是經濟部的但是您的閣員您的閣員竟然現場質疑我們的數據哪裡來那當時院長當然我知道院長的角度不可能知道一些很細的數據這我可以了解但是院長您就跟著講說委員雖然言論免責但是不代表可以不用經過查證那我在這邊先跟院長報告一件事情您的官員在您面前卻不說真話\n134008\t134590\t那我的數據\n136004\t162591\t我們在跟我同仁討論數據的時候我們都再三的去匯聚反覆的去確認數據的來源那在質詢完畢之後我們也再三的確認這數據就是經濟部產發署所提出來在稅事支出評估報告裡面就有那我不懂說一個經濟部長陪著院長到立法院來接受質詢的時候卻可以在院長面前說謊來騙自己的院長長官那讓院長長官也因為錯誤的訊息然後來這邊\n165492\t183340\t認為國會的議員呢就算有言論免責也不應該未經查證所以我在這邊先跟院長報告有這件事情那也請院長將來在挑選自己閣員的時候能夠盡量找不會說謊的人那本來今天如果今天經濟部長來我是不會讓他上台因為我不喜歡跟會說謊的人\n184901\t205808\t跟他談話那如果說經濟部長覺得自己當時是一時不察記錯數據那也代表了他不是那麼的認真因為他其實來這邊備詢的時候是不是應該要了解數據那我自己也擔任過政務官那我在接受議員質詢的時候確實有些數據我可能也是有點模糊但是我模糊的部分我絕對不會去反駁議員說你這數據哪裡來哪裡弄錯去做這樣不應該的反質詢\n210450\t227078\t那以上就是我跟院長報告那請院長在面對這些閣員的時候是不是請閣員上班能夠更認真一點搞清楚自己在做什麼事情好 謝謝院長那院長 因為最近發生很多事情那我們台灣其實政治太多了 民生太少\n228219\t247559\t執政黨執政這九年其實我們都覺得說是不是我們應該更關注民生多一點點那我覺得歷史它其實是一個很重要的東西它其實會讓我們去見往知來嘛那我就最近看了一下就是我們的賴總統他當年在當行政院院長的時候其實他有到立法院來拜訪\n248980\t278040\t在野黨黨團 那在野黨黨團其實就有送他四個字 厚德載物那我們是希望說呢 我們希望說當時的賴院長對於這個國家的精神就像大地一樣能夠厚實才能夠承載萬物那當然啦 賴院長當時也給我們一個非常溫暖的回應他說會更進一步的請教國民黨的寶貴意見希望在重大政策上面能夠朝野合作然後行政院跟立法院也能夠好好的合作\n278900\t304994\t這是他當時的一個狀況但是我們看到今天行政院跟立法院其實是蠻強度的對抗那院長您是法律人說真的我以前對院長的印象真的非常非常好院長也是我們所有法律人我覺得甚至是我們偶像標竿級的人那院長之前在民進黨裡面被稱為大師兄不是沒有原因的因為院長其實是講道理\n305374\t333836\t而且是非常和氣的人他不會像有些人他就是永遠針鋒相對所以這是院長我一直以來對您的看法是如此所以我在第一次質詢您的時候我有說您是這個我民進黨的大師兄那我也蠻希望您能夠做我們全民的大師兄那我想請院長一個問題最近有一個人說他說大罷免是惡的循環民主政治應該是互相妥協\n336358\t353205\t大罷免其實它是浪費社會資源和時間削減台灣的優勢和能量公務員更難置身度外別無選擇他只能跟著走反而造成集體的無力感院長您認不認同這句話大罷免是惡的循環這句話嗎是\n355287\t369733\t那要看這個二的循環的起點在哪裡因為我剛剛其實念了整段好吧 那沒關係我想講剛剛這句話的人是謝長廷前大使那你以前也被認為是謝系大師兄的領導人物\n371033\t395946\t那我也是希望說您跟謝長廷的想法不要有那麼大落差那這段時間我們看到民進黨很多很優秀的前輩像陳水扁 呂秀蓮 謝長廷 林卓水等等的其實都對最近的一些作為發出一些不一樣的建議那我也想說 院長我們需要的是大團結不是大惡霸 不是大罷免所以我一直希望說我們能不能夠為我們這塊土地 台灣\n396946\t419741\t台灣是我們的母親台灣她孕育我從小到大都在這塊土地生長所以我也很願意行政立法之間多多的溝通協調我要再次謝謝韓院長兩次促成我們跟黨團都有接觸而且我現在已經安排在下禮拜一我會親自拜訪朝野各黨團希望堅持支持這個特別條例您的想法也是很正向但是做法\n420714\t443371\t我是覺得可以再多思考是否我們應該朝向大團結的方向去走因為台灣就這兩千三百五十萬人大家應該要好好的團結一致的對外好那並不能說現在我們眼睛一張開什麼都政治外交的困境也是政治國際關係的問題也是政治國內的民生議題也是政治什麼都搞政治\n444318\t466567\t那我覺得這樣是不對的我還是希望走回剛說的後得載物一切以蒼生為念那我們現在談一些民生的議題我想最近我們一直在走綠電綠電有一個伴隨很重要的是儲能廠院長知道嗎 儲能廠 儲電的設備綠電一定要搭配著儲能廠才有意義\n467427\t485943\t那我不知道您知不知道在雲林高雄屏東台南有蓋了很多儲能廠但是都發生非常多的抗爭像高雄鳳山那個牛草堡那個儲能廠在2023年2月簽完約之後就開始抗爭就一個月後市府就把他停掉所以\n487304\t513204\t我看到這有一個問題啦就是大家考量的是安全問題因為離電池包裝有狀況它很容易就會著火所以呢現在的狀況是我看到這個法規非常的混亂主管機關也非常的混亂譬如說工廠要建設備那要環境不環評那地商政府又有地方自治條例那地方自治條例就會要求這些廠商要提供相關的資料那再接下來呢\n514165\t533585\t申請的文件中又還要有消防主管機關就是內政部消防署他要依據那個提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引的標準去審核然後再來最後才是經濟部標準局他看看有沒有符合國家的標準但是作為主管機關的能源署他卻只有一個\n534506\t563849\t行政命令就是並往行儲能系統設置區域還有設置安全規範它變成它的位階只是行政命令所以這個東西會讓大家反而會去擔心安全性的問題我現在在講的是民進黨政府積極希望推動的綠能綠能需要有儲能廠搭配但是我們對於儲能廠的法規卻主管機關的能源署卻只存在行政命令的階段那我想請教一下這個可不可以去思考去參考像核子反應設施管理\n565286\t584780\t管治法把他提升到法規範法未接我想請教院長跟委員報告那委員的建立是很具體的那我想這個部分因為儲能的安全會涉及到經濟部以外還有其他的部會的法規那我想我們會後續會參照委員的這個意見我們來找\n588123\t602141\t拉高層法律未接不能只是行政命令那院長是不是可以一樣就是找一個政委能夠跨部會的來處理來去做這個儲能法專法的設置我不知道院長您知不知此\n605417\t632304\t因為我剛提到嘛你看環境部地方政府消防署經濟部標準局能源局一堆的公務機關但是在能源局他就只是一個行政命令的位階那是不是我們可以找一個這個政委能夠跨部會的來把他提升到法衛階因為這個也是有利於民進黨的綠能政策能源署經濟部現在如果是在處理這個事情上面\n633724\t655495\t有遇到跨部會的困難必須其他部會比方土地的取得供給等等那我們會再思考由適當的這個政委來進行協調好 那謝謝院長這真的要有一個政委跨部會的來協調這件事情好 那我再請問有關農業部的事情我想這個美國關稅一樣它也會影響到我們宜蘭的漁業\n657947\t684184\t我想在座一定也知道我們台灣有一個鬼頭刀鬼頭刀它其實主要的捕魚就是宜蘭、台東跟屏東嘛那依據漁業署它112年統計的資料來看鬼頭刀一年是捕獲4000噸然後美國人還蠻愛吃的但是現在我們外銷美國可能會有兩個事情會卡關第一個就是說美國主導海鮮消費它有一個Fish Choice的\n684864\t704840\t他在網站揭露各國漁種在那個Safe to Watch海洋永續指標的評價台灣的鬼頭刀被評價為避免選購的紅燈那我想請教一下這段時間雖然1月屬有很多改進計畫漁民也在努力也把資料通知美國但是我想請教部長\n706081\t733189\t這個Seafood Watch有沒有把我們的鬼頭島解除紅燈的警示我想跟委員報告就是鬼頭島本身我們它有兩個有一些不同的level的標準那第一個是FIP的部分那現在我們也輔導了很多很多漁民的漁船去針對FIP我知道它有沒有解除紅燈的警告然後還有MSC所以它沒有所謂說是紅燈或是什麼樣子就是說你要輸美國的時候你一定要符合一些認證的標章\n734569\t744415\t所以在產業支持的時候我們特別沒關係啦這樣部長如果你不確定這個就我剛剛跟你講你到你去看那個海洋永續那個\n745106\t772333\t指標您去看一下目前被列為紅燈而且被評為避免選購的紅燈啦那漁業署要趕快看能不能夠處理把這個解除那這是第一個那第二個呢那個委員我要跟你澄清一下就是說鬼頭刀輸美國他有一些標準然後不符合這個標準的話就不能進口就所謂他的紅燈不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是\n774334\t798173\t歸類為避免選購的商品並不是講到我們抓捕獲漁獲的產品怎麼樣所以我不為難你所以我說你先回去看清楚這個網站的評價那第二個就是關稅的問題啦那關稅呢我覺得還是要因為總是現在對等關稅等等的問題出來會不會造成我們鬼頭島更難銷去美國那是不是說農業部還是要向美國農業部\n800754\t819888\t一樣就是說要積極的為漁民去談一下那我知道就是上次漁業署在11號本月11號有到那個蘇澳去溝通這件事因為當天我在這邊質詢人沒有辦法過去我知道漁業所提三個方案低周轉金鼓勵外銷到歐盟還有提升冷凍還有那個衛生設備\n822310\t841380\t那我想請教一下因為漁民現在也不好過那你們所提到的提升漁船冷凍還有衛生設備啊這個部分有沒有可能是由政府來全額補助因為畢竟現在環保意識抬頭漁民然後海洋一些枯竭的問題漁民不好過\n842461\t859648\t那這些漁業設備呢這些船舶設備上面的那個漁會的冷鏈設備這有沒有可能政府來全額補助他來做我跟委員報告我們已經把因為這次美國關稅的影響已經把我們原來的補助標準從50%提升到60%我們有已經有適度的一個提升\n864875\t881857\t好吧那就是沒有辦法回答了好那沒關係了那我再跟你提一個就是好吧那另外一件事情至少可以做的就是說我想鬼頭刀這個產品有很多優勢那是不是說可以找那個教育部大家來溝通一下\n882498\t901747\t既然他這個魚的這個品質也都被大家所稱讚那是不是可以在那種食魚教育的角度一出發協助漁民漁會把這個帶到校園當作是一個那個食材的選項之一最後我想沒時間了最後還是上架場的問題\n903447\t925039\t那個南方澳漁港目前它沒有上架場那導致我們現在南方澳有700多艘船但是我們現在只剩下一家造船廠還能夠提供漁船上架五條 那個一船道也只剩下三條能用那兩年一小休 五年一大休真的不夠用那麻煩農委會這邊能夠幫忙他們好 謝謝好 謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢謝謝卓院長\n","txt":"好 謝謝院長那我們麻煩行政院院長麻煩再請左院長備詢院長午安在進入有關民生議題的質疑之前我先放一個短暫的\n工會的評估 如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.7億我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來的還是真的我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n沒關係啦 因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分 委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話 可以跟我們直接要那我們來跟你做一個比較具體的報告新聞的報告 新聞的部分我想\n院長在這邊先跟院長說明一下因為上次我們在質詢的時候經濟部長質疑我們的數據哪裡來我是認為說我這個人是不接受反質詢我也不認為說官員到國會說謊雖然說大法官認為我國非常特殊的官員到國會說謊沒有責任有別於\n而一般像日本、美國、韓國等等關於到國會說謊都是很嚴重的負很嚴重的責任甚至刑責其實我們當天的數據來源是經濟部產發署所發布的而且是中央社也有發布所以我當時有說\n媒體也有而且是經濟部的但是您的閣員您的閣員竟然現場質疑我們的數據哪裡來那當時院長當然我知道院長的角度不可能知道一些很細的數據這我可以了解但是院長您就跟著講說委員雖然言論免責但是不代表可以不用經過查證那我在這邊先跟院長報告一件事情您的官員在您面前卻不說真話\n那我的數據\n我們在跟我同仁討論數據的時候我們都再三的去匯聚反覆的去確認數據的來源那在質詢完畢之後我們也再三的確認這數據就是經濟部產發署所提出來在稅事支出評估報告裡面就有那我不懂說一個經濟部長陪著院長到立法院來接受質詢的時候卻可以在院長面前說謊來騙自己的院長長官那讓院長長官也因為錯誤的訊息然後來這邊\n認為國會的議員呢就算有言論免責也不應該未經查證所以我在這邊先跟院長報告有這件事情那也請院長將來在挑選自己閣員的時候能夠盡量找不會說謊的人那本來今天如果今天經濟部長來我是不會讓他上台因為我不喜歡跟會說謊的人\n跟他談話那如果說經濟部長覺得自己當時是一時不察記錯數據那也代表了他不是那麼的認真因為他其實來這邊備詢的時候是不是應該要了解數據那我自己也擔任過政務官那我在接受議員質詢的時候確實有些數據我可能也是有點模糊但是我模糊的部分我絕對不會去反駁議員說你這數據哪裡來哪裡弄錯去做這樣不應該的反質詢\n那以上就是我跟院長報告那請院長在面對這些閣員的時候是不是請閣員上班能夠更認真一點搞清楚自己在做什麼事情好 謝謝院長那院長 因為最近發生很多事情那我們台灣其實政治太多了 民生太少\n執政黨執政這九年其實我們都覺得說是不是我們應該更關注民生多一點點那我覺得歷史它其實是一個很重要的東西它其實會讓我們去見往知來嘛那我就最近看了一下就是我們的賴總統他當年在當行政院院長的時候其實他有到立法院來拜訪\n在野黨黨團 那在野黨黨團其實就有送他四個字 厚德載物那我們是希望說呢 我們希望說當時的賴院長對於這個國家的精神就像大地一樣能夠厚實才能夠承載萬物那當然啦 賴院長當時也給我們一個非常溫暖的回應他說會更進一步的請教國民黨的寶貴意見希望在重大政策上面能夠朝野合作然後行政院跟立法院也能夠好好的合作\n這是他當時的一個狀況但是我們看到今天行政院跟立法院其實是蠻強度的對抗那院長您是法律人說真的我以前對院長的印象真的非常非常好院長也是我們所有法律人我覺得甚至是我們偶像標竿級的人那院長之前在民進黨裡面被稱為大師兄不是沒有原因的因為院長其實是講道理\n而且是非常和氣的人他不會像有些人他就是永遠針鋒相對所以這是院長我一直以來對您的看法是如此所以我在第一次質詢您的時候我有說您是這個我民進黨的大師兄那我也蠻希望您能夠做我們全民的大師兄那我想請院長一個問題最近有一個人說他說大罷免是惡的循環民主政治應該是互相妥協\n大罷免其實它是浪費社會資源和時間削減台灣的優勢和能量公務員更難置身度外別無選擇他只能跟著走反而造成集體的無力感院長您認不認同這句話大罷免是惡的循環這句話嗎是\n那要看這個二的循環的起點在哪裡因為我剛剛其實念了整段好吧 那沒關係我想講剛剛這句話的人是謝長廷前大使那你以前也被認為是謝系大師兄的領導人物\n那我也是希望說您跟謝長廷的想法不要有那麼大落差那這段時間我們看到民進黨很多很優秀的前輩像陳水扁 呂秀蓮 謝長廷 林卓水等等的其實都對最近的一些作為發出一些不一樣的建議那我也想說 院長我們需要的是大團結不是大惡霸 不是大罷免所以我一直希望說我們能不能夠為我們這塊土地 台灣\n台灣是我們的母親台灣她孕育我從小到大都在這塊土地生長所以我也很願意行政立法之間多多的溝通協調我要再次謝謝韓院長兩次促成我們跟黨團都有接觸而且我現在已經安排在下禮拜一我會親自拜訪朝野各黨團希望堅持支持這個特別條例您的想法也是很正向但是做法\n我是覺得可以再多思考是否我們應該朝向大團結的方向去走因為台灣就這兩千三百五十萬人大家應該要好好的團結一致的對外好那並不能說現在我們眼睛一張開什麼都政治外交的困境也是政治國際關係的問題也是政治國內的民生議題也是政治什麼都搞政治\n那我覺得這樣是不對的我還是希望走回剛說的後得載物一切以蒼生為念那我們現在談一些民生的議題我想最近我們一直在走綠電綠電有一個伴隨很重要的是儲能廠院長知道嗎 儲能廠 儲電的設備綠電一定要搭配著儲能廠才有意義\n那我不知道您知不知道在雲林高雄屏東台南有蓋了很多儲能廠但是都發生非常多的抗爭像高雄鳳山那個牛草堡那個儲能廠在2023年2月簽完約之後就開始抗爭就一個月後市府就把他停掉所以\n我看到這有一個問題啦就是大家考量的是安全問題因為離電池包裝有狀況它很容易就會著火所以呢現在的狀況是我看到這個法規非常的混亂主管機關也非常的混亂譬如說工廠要建設備那要環境不環評那地商政府又有地方自治條例那地方自治條例就會要求這些廠商要提供相關的資料那再接下來呢\n申請的文件中又還要有消防主管機關就是內政部消防署他要依據那個提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引的標準去審核然後再來最後才是經濟部標準局他看看有沒有符合國家的標準但是作為主管機關的能源署他卻只有一個\n行政命令就是並往行儲能系統設置區域還有設置安全規範它變成它的位階只是行政命令所以這個東西會讓大家反而會去擔心安全性的問題我現在在講的是民進黨政府積極希望推動的綠能綠能需要有儲能廠搭配但是我們對於儲能廠的法規卻主管機關的能源署卻只存在行政命令的階段那我想請教一下這個可不可以去思考去參考像核子反應設施管理\n管治法把他提升到法規範法未接我想請教院長跟委員報告那委員的建立是很具體的那我想這個部分因為儲能的安全會涉及到經濟部以外還有其他的部會的法規那我想我們會後續會參照委員的這個意見我們來找\n拉高層法律未接不能只是行政命令那院長是不是可以一樣就是找一個政委能夠跨部會的來處理來去做這個儲能法專法的設置我不知道院長您知不知此\n因為我剛提到嘛你看環境部地方政府消防署經濟部標準局能源局一堆的公務機關但是在能源局他就只是一個行政命令的位階那是不是我們可以找一個這個政委能夠跨部會的來把他提升到法衛階因為這個也是有利於民進黨的綠能政策能源署經濟部現在如果是在處理這個事情上面\n有遇到跨部會的困難必須其他部會比方土地的取得供給等等那我們會再思考由適當的這個政委來進行協調好 那謝謝院長這真的要有一個政委跨部會的來協調這件事情好 那我再請問有關農業部的事情我想這個美國關稅一樣它也會影響到我們宜蘭的漁業\n我想在座一定也知道我們台灣有一個鬼頭刀鬼頭刀它其實主要的捕魚就是宜蘭、台東跟屏東嘛那依據漁業署它112年統計的資料來看鬼頭刀一年是捕獲4000噸然後美國人還蠻愛吃的但是現在我們外銷美國可能會有兩個事情會卡關第一個就是說美國主導海鮮消費它有一個Fish Choice的\n他在網站揭露各國漁種在那個Safe to Watch海洋永續指標的評價台灣的鬼頭刀被評價為避免選購的紅燈那我想請教一下這段時間雖然1月屬有很多改進計畫漁民也在努力也把資料通知美國但是我想請教部長\n這個Seafood Watch有沒有把我們的鬼頭島解除紅燈的警示我想跟委員報告就是鬼頭島本身我們它有兩個有一些不同的level的標準那第一個是FIP的部分那現在我們也輔導了很多很多漁民的漁船去針對FIP我知道它有沒有解除紅燈的警告然後還有MSC所以它沒有所謂說是紅燈或是什麼樣子就是說你要輸美國的時候你一定要符合一些認證的標章\n所以在產業支持的時候我們特別沒關係啦這樣部長如果你不確定這個就我剛剛跟你講你到你去看那個海洋永續那個\n指標您去看一下目前被列為紅燈而且被評為避免選購的紅燈啦那漁業署要趕快看能不能夠處理把這個解除那這是第一個那第二個呢那個委員我要跟你澄清一下就是說鬼頭刀輸美國他有一些標準然後不符合這個標準的話就不能進口就所謂他的紅燈不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是\n歸類為避免選購的商品並不是講到我們抓捕獲漁獲的產品怎麼樣所以我不為難你所以我說你先回去看清楚這個網站的評價那第二個就是關稅的問題啦那關稅呢我覺得還是要因為總是現在對等關稅等等的問題出來會不會造成我們鬼頭島更難銷去美國那是不是說農業部還是要向美國農業部\n一樣就是說要積極的為漁民去談一下那我知道就是上次漁業署在11號本月11號有到那個蘇澳去溝通這件事因為當天我在這邊質詢人沒有辦法過去我知道漁業所提三個方案低周轉金鼓勵外銷到歐盟還有提升冷凍還有那個衛生設備\n那我想請教一下因為漁民現在也不好過那你們所提到的提升漁船冷凍還有衛生設備啊這個部分有沒有可能是由政府來全額補助因為畢竟現在環保意識抬頭漁民然後海洋一些枯竭的問題漁民不好過\n那這些漁業設備呢這些船舶設備上面的那個漁會的冷鏈設備這有沒有可能政府來全額補助他來做我跟委員報告我們已經把因為這次美國關稅的影響已經把我們原來的補助標準從50%提升到60%我們有已經有適度的一個提升\n好吧那就是沒有辦法回答了好那沒關係了那我再跟你提一個就是好吧那另外一件事情至少可以做的就是說我想鬼頭刀這個產品有很多優勢那是不是說可以找那個教育部大家來溝通一下\n既然他這個魚的這個品質也都被大家所稱讚那是不是可以在那種食魚教育的角度一出發協助漁民漁會把這個帶到校園當作是一個那個食材的選項之一最後我想沒時間了最後還是上架場的問題\n那個南方澳漁港目前它沒有上架場那導致我們現在南方澳有700多艘船但是我們現在只剩下一家造船廠還能夠提供漁船上架五條 那個一船道也只剩下三條能用那兩年一小休 五年一大休真的不夠用那麻煩農委會這邊能夠幫忙他們好 謝謝好 謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢謝謝卓院長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.121 --> 00:13.605\n好謝謝院長那我們麻煩行政院院長麻煩再請左院長備詢院長午安在進入有關民生議題的質疑之前我先放一個短暫的\n\n00:33.411 --> 00:53.970\n工會的評估如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.7億我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來的還是真的我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n\n00:54.210 --> 01:03.383\n沒關係啦因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話可以跟我們直接要那我們來跟你做一個比較具體的報告新聞的報告新聞的部分我想\n\n01:08.300 --> 01:28.939\n院長在這邊先跟院長說明一下因為上次我們在質詢的時候經濟部長質疑我們的數據哪裡來我是認為說我這個人是不接受反質詢我也不認為說官員到國會說謊雖然說大法官認為我國非常特殊的官員到國會說謊沒有責任有別於\n\n01:29.600 --> 01:43.205\n而一般像日本、美國、韓國等等關於到國會說謊都是很嚴重的負很嚴重的責任甚至刑責其實我們當天的數據來源是經濟部產發署所發布的而且是中央社也有發布所以我當時有說\n\n01:44.745 --> 02:12.645\n媒體也有而且是經濟部的但是您的閣員您的閣員竟然現場質疑我們的數據哪裡來那當時院長當然我知道院長的角度不可能知道一些很細的數據這我可以了解但是院長您就跟著講說委員雖然言論免責但是不代表可以不用經過查證那我在這邊先跟院長報告一件事情您的官員在您面前卻不說真話\n\n02:14.008 --> 02:14.590\n那我的數據\n\n02:16.004 --> 02:42.591\n我們在跟我同仁討論數據的時候我們都再三的去匯聚反覆的去確認數據的來源那在質詢完畢之後我們也再三的確認這數據就是經濟部產發署所提出來在稅事支出評估報告裡面就有那我不懂說一個經濟部長陪著院長到立法院來接受質詢的時候卻可以在院長面前說謊來騙自己的院長長官那讓院長長官也因為錯誤的訊息然後來這邊\n\n02:45.492 --> 03:03.340\n認為國會的議員呢就算有言論免責也不應該未經查證所以我在這邊先跟院長報告有這件事情那也請院長將來在挑選自己閣員的時候能夠盡量找不會說謊的人那本來今天如果今天經濟部長來我是不會讓他上台因為我不喜歡跟會說謊的人\n\n03:04.901 --> 03:25.808\n跟他談話那如果說經濟部長覺得自己當時是一時不察記錯數據那也代表了他不是那麼的認真因為他其實來這邊備詢的時候是不是應該要了解數據那我自己也擔任過政務官那我在接受議員質詢的時候確實有些數據我可能也是有點模糊但是我模糊的部分我絕對不會去反駁議員說你這數據哪裡來哪裡弄錯去做這樣不應該的反質詢\n\n03:30.450 --> 03:47.078\n那以上就是我跟院長報告那請院長在面對這些閣員的時候是不是請閣員上班能夠更認真一點搞清楚自己在做什麼事情好謝謝院長那院長因為最近發生很多事情那我們台灣其實政治太多了民生太少\n\n03:48.219 --> 04:07.559\n執政黨執政這九年其實我們都覺得說是不是我們應該更關注民生多一點點那我覺得歷史它其實是一個很重要的東西它其實會讓我們去見往知來嘛那我就最近看了一下就是我們的賴總統他當年在當行政院院長的時候其實他有到立法院來拜訪\n\n04:08.980 --> 04:38.040\n在野黨黨團那在野黨黨團其實就有送他四個字厚德載物那我們是希望說呢我們希望說當時的賴院長對於這個國家的精神就像大地一樣能夠厚實才能夠承載萬物那當然啦賴院長當時也給我們一個非常溫暖的回應他說會更進一步的請教國民黨的寶貴意見希望在重大政策上面能夠朝野合作然後行政院跟立法院也能夠好好的合作\n\n04:38.900 --> 05:04.994\n這是他當時的一個狀況但是我們看到今天行政院跟立法院其實是蠻強度的對抗那院長您是法律人說真的我以前對院長的印象真的非常非常好院長也是我們所有法律人我覺得甚至是我們偶像標竿級的人那院長之前在民進黨裡面被稱為大師兄不是沒有原因的因為院長其實是講道理\n\n05:05.374 --> 05:33.836\n而且是非常和氣的人他不會像有些人他就是永遠針鋒相對所以這是院長我一直以來對您的看法是如此所以我在第一次質詢您的時候我有說您是這個我民進黨的大師兄那我也蠻希望您能夠做我們全民的大師兄那我想請院長一個問題最近有一個人說他說大罷免是惡的循環民主政治應該是互相妥協\n\n05:36.358 --> 05:53.205\n大罷免其實它是浪費社會資源和時間削減台灣的優勢和能量公務員更難置身度外別無選擇他只能跟著走反而造成集體的無力感院長您認不認同這句話大罷免是惡的循環這句話嗎是\n\n05:55.287 --> 06:09.733\n那要看這個二的循環的起點在哪裡因為我剛剛其實念了整段好吧那沒關係我想講剛剛這句話的人是謝長廷前大使那你以前也被認為是謝系大師兄的領導人物\n\n06:11.033 --> 06:35.946\n那我也是希望說您跟謝長廷的想法不要有那麼大落差那這段時間我們看到民進黨很多很優秀的前輩像陳水扁呂秀蓮謝長廷林卓水等等的其實都對最近的一些作為發出一些不一樣的建議那我也想說院長我們需要的是大團結不是大惡霸不是大罷免所以我一直希望說我們能不能夠為我們這塊土地台灣\n\n06:36.946 --> 06:59.741\n台灣是我們的母親台灣她孕育我從小到大都在這塊土地生長所以我也很願意行政立法之間多多的溝通協調我要再次謝謝韓院長兩次促成我們跟黨團都有接觸而且我現在已經安排在下禮拜一我會親自拜訪朝野各黨團希望堅持支持這個特別條例您的想法也是很正向但是做法\n\n07:00.714 --> 07:23.371\n我是覺得可以再多思考是否我們應該朝向大團結的方向去走因為台灣就這兩千三百五十萬人大家應該要好好的團結一致的對外好那並不能說現在我們眼睛一張開什麼都政治外交的困境也是政治國際關係的問題也是政治國內的民生議題也是政治什麼都搞政治\n\n07:24.318 --> 07:46.567\n那我覺得這樣是不對的我還是希望走回剛說的後得載物一切以蒼生為念那我們現在談一些民生的議題我想最近我們一直在走綠電綠電有一個伴隨很重要的是儲能廠院長知道嗎儲能廠儲電的設備綠電一定要搭配著儲能廠才有意義\n\n07:47.427 --> 08:05.943\n那我不知道您知不知道在雲林高雄屏東台南有蓋了很多儲能廠但是都發生非常多的抗爭像高雄鳳山那個牛草堡那個儲能廠在2023年2月簽完約之後就開始抗爭就一個月後市府就把他停掉所以\n\n08:07.304 --> 08:33.204\n我看到這有一個問題啦就是大家考量的是安全問題因為離電池包裝有狀況它很容易就會著火所以呢現在的狀況是我看到這個法規非常的混亂主管機關也非常的混亂譬如說工廠要建設備那要環境不環評那地商政府又有地方自治條例那地方自治條例就會要求這些廠商要提供相關的資料那再接下來呢\n\n08:34.165 --> 08:53.585\n申請的文件中又還要有消防主管機關就是內政部消防署他要依據那個提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引的標準去審核然後再來最後才是經濟部標準局他看看有沒有符合國家的標準但是作為主管機關的能源署他卻只有一個\n\n08:54.506 --> 09:23.849\n行政命令就是並往行儲能系統設置區域還有設置安全規範它變成它的位階只是行政命令所以這個東西會讓大家反而會去擔心安全性的問題我現在在講的是民進黨政府積極希望推動的綠能綠能需要有儲能廠搭配但是我們對於儲能廠的法規卻主管機關的能源署卻只存在行政命令的階段那我想請教一下這個可不可以去思考去參考像核子反應設施管理\n\n09:25.286 --> 09:44.780\n管治法把他提升到法規範法未接我想請教院長跟委員報告那委員的建立是很具體的那我想這個部分因為儲能的安全會涉及到經濟部以外還有其他的部會的法規那我想我們會後續會參照委員的這個意見我們來找\n\n09:48.123 --> 10:02.141\n拉高層法律未接不能只是行政命令那院長是不是可以一樣就是找一個政委能夠跨部會的來處理來去做這個儲能法專法的設置我不知道院長您知不知此\n\n10:05.417 --> 10:32.304\n因為我剛提到嘛你看環境部地方政府消防署經濟部標準局能源局一堆的公務機關但是在能源局他就只是一個行政命令的位階那是不是我們可以找一個這個政委能夠跨部會的來把他提升到法衛階因為這個也是有利於民進黨的綠能政策能源署經濟部現在如果是在處理這個事情上面\n\n10:33.724 --> 10:55.495\n有遇到跨部會的困難必須其他部會比方土地的取得供給等等那我們會再思考由適當的這個政委來進行協調好那謝謝院長這真的要有一個政委跨部會的來協調這件事情好那我再請問有關農業部的事情我想這個美國關稅一樣它也會影響到我們宜蘭的漁業\n\n10:57.947 --> 11:24.184\n我想在座一定也知道我們台灣有一個鬼頭刀鬼頭刀它其實主要的捕魚就是宜蘭、台東跟屏東嘛那依據漁業署它112年統計的資料來看鬼頭刀一年是捕獲4000噸然後美國人還蠻愛吃的但是現在我們外銷美國可能會有兩個事情會卡關第一個就是說美國主導海鮮消費它有一個FishChoice的\n\n11:24.864 --> 11:44.840\n他在網站揭露各國漁種在那個SafetoWatch海洋永續指標的評價台灣的鬼頭刀被評價為避免選購的紅燈那我想請教一下這段時間雖然1月屬有很多改進計畫漁民也在努力也把資料通知美國但是我想請教部長\n\n11:46.081 --> 12:13.189\n這個SeafoodWatch有沒有把我們的鬼頭島解除紅燈的警示我想跟委員報告就是鬼頭島本身我們它有兩個有一些不同的level的標準那第一個是FIP的部分那現在我們也輔導了很多很多漁民的漁船去針對FIP我知道它有沒有解除紅燈的警告然後還有MSC所以它沒有所謂說是紅燈或是什麼樣子就是說你要輸美國的時候你一定要符合一些認證的標章\n\n12:14.569 --> 12:24.415\n所以在產業支持的時候我們特別沒關係啦這樣部長如果你不確定這個就我剛剛跟你講你到你去看那個海洋永續那個\n\n12:25.106 --> 12:52.333\n指標您去看一下目前被列為紅燈而且被評為避免選購的紅燈啦那漁業署要趕快看能不能夠處理把這個解除那這是第一個那第二個呢那個委員我要跟你澄清一下就是說鬼頭刀輸美國他有一些標準然後不符合這個標準的話就不能進口就所謂他的紅燈不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是\n\n12:54.334 --> 13:18.173\n歸類為避免選購的商品並不是講到我們抓捕獲漁獲的產品怎麼樣所以我不為難你所以我說你先回去看清楚這個網站的評價那第二個就是關稅的問題啦那關稅呢我覺得還是要因為總是現在對等關稅等等的問題出來會不會造成我們鬼頭島更難銷去美國那是不是說農業部還是要向美國農業部\n\n13:20.754 --> 13:39.888\n一樣就是說要積極的為漁民去談一下那我知道就是上次漁業署在11號本月11號有到那個蘇澳去溝通這件事因為當天我在這邊質詢人沒有辦法過去我知道漁業所提三個方案低周轉金鼓勵外銷到歐盟還有提升冷凍還有那個衛生設備\n\n13:42.310 --> 14:01.380\n那我想請教一下因為漁民現在也不好過那你們所提到的提升漁船冷凍還有衛生設備啊這個部分有沒有可能是由政府來全額補助因為畢竟現在環保意識抬頭漁民然後海洋一些枯竭的問題漁民不好過\n\n14:02.461 --> 14:19.648\n那這些漁業設備呢這些船舶設備上面的那個漁會的冷鏈設備這有沒有可能政府來全額補助他來做我跟委員報告我們已經把因為這次美國關稅的影響已經把我們原來的補助標準從50%提升到60%我們有已經有適度的一個提升\n\n14:24.875 --> 14:41.857\n好吧那就是沒有辦法回答了好那沒關係了那我再跟你提一個就是好吧那另外一件事情至少可以做的就是說我想鬼頭刀這個產品有很多優勢那是不是說可以找那個教育部大家來溝通一下\n\n14:42.498 --> 15:01.747\n既然他這個魚的這個品質也都被大家所稱讚那是不是可以在那種食魚教育的角度一出發協助漁民漁會把這個帶到校園當作是一個那個食材的選項之一最後我想沒時間了最後還是上架場的問題\n\n15:03.447 --> 15:25.039\n那個南方澳漁港目前它沒有上架場那導致我們現在南方澳有700多艘船但是我們現在只剩下一家造船廠還能夠提供漁船上架五條那個一船道也只剩下三條能用那兩年一小休五年一大休真的不夠用那麻煩農委會這邊能夠幫忙他們好謝謝好謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢謝謝卓院長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.121,"end":13.605,"text":"好 謝謝院長那我們麻煩行政院院長麻煩再請左院長備詢院長午安在進入有關民生議題的質疑之前我先放一個短暫的"},{"start":33.411,"end":53.97,"text":"工會的評估 如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.7億我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來的還是真的我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的"},{"start":54.21,"end":63.383,"text":"沒關係啦 因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分 委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話 可以跟我們直接要那我們來跟你做一個比較具體的報告新聞的報告 新聞的部分我想"},{"start":68.3,"end":88.939,"text":"院長在這邊先跟院長說明一下因為上次我們在質詢的時候經濟部長質疑我們的數據哪裡來我是認為說我這個人是不接受反質詢我也不認為說官員到國會說謊雖然說大法官認為我國非常特殊的官員到國會說謊沒有責任有別於"},{"start":89.6,"end":103.205,"text":"而一般像日本、美國、韓國等等關於到國會說謊都是很嚴重的負很嚴重的責任甚至刑責其實我們當天的數據來源是經濟部產發署所發布的而且是中央社也有發布所以我當時有說"},{"start":104.745,"end":132.645,"text":"媒體也有而且是經濟部的但是您的閣員您的閣員竟然現場質疑我們的數據哪裡來那當時院長當然我知道院長的角度不可能知道一些很細的數據這我可以了解但是院長您就跟著講說委員雖然言論免責但是不代表可以不用經過查證那我在這邊先跟院長報告一件事情您的官員在您面前卻不說真話"},{"start":134.008,"end":134.59,"text":"那我的數據"},{"start":136.004,"end":162.591,"text":"我們在跟我同仁討論數據的時候我們都再三的去匯聚反覆的去確認數據的來源那在質詢完畢之後我們也再三的確認這數據就是經濟部產發署所提出來在稅事支出評估報告裡面就有那我不懂說一個經濟部長陪著院長到立法院來接受質詢的時候卻可以在院長面前說謊來騙自己的院長長官那讓院長長官也因為錯誤的訊息然後來這邊"},{"start":165.492,"end":183.34,"text":"認為國會的議員呢就算有言論免責也不應該未經查證所以我在這邊先跟院長報告有這件事情那也請院長將來在挑選自己閣員的時候能夠盡量找不會說謊的人那本來今天如果今天經濟部長來我是不會讓他上台因為我不喜歡跟會說謊的人"},{"start":184.901,"end":205.808,"text":"跟他談話那如果說經濟部長覺得自己當時是一時不察記錯數據那也代表了他不是那麼的認真因為他其實來這邊備詢的時候是不是應該要了解數據那我自己也擔任過政務官那我在接受議員質詢的時候確實有些數據我可能也是有點模糊但是我模糊的部分我絕對不會去反駁議員說你這數據哪裡來哪裡弄錯去做這樣不應該的反質詢"},{"start":210.45,"end":227.078,"text":"那以上就是我跟院長報告那請院長在面對這些閣員的時候是不是請閣員上班能夠更認真一點搞清楚自己在做什麼事情好 謝謝院長那院長 因為最近發生很多事情那我們台灣其實政治太多了 民生太少"},{"start":228.219,"end":247.559,"text":"執政黨執政這九年其實我們都覺得說是不是我們應該更關注民生多一點點那我覺得歷史它其實是一個很重要的東西它其實會讓我們去見往知來嘛那我就最近看了一下就是我們的賴總統他當年在當行政院院長的時候其實他有到立法院來拜訪"},{"start":248.98,"end":278.04,"text":"在野黨黨團 那在野黨黨團其實就有送他四個字 厚德載物那我們是希望說呢 我們希望說當時的賴院長對於這個國家的精神就像大地一樣能夠厚實才能夠承載萬物那當然啦 賴院長當時也給我們一個非常溫暖的回應他說會更進一步的請教國民黨的寶貴意見希望在重大政策上面能夠朝野合作然後行政院跟立法院也能夠好好的合作"},{"start":278.9,"end":304.994,"text":"這是他當時的一個狀況但是我們看到今天行政院跟立法院其實是蠻強度的對抗那院長您是法律人說真的我以前對院長的印象真的非常非常好院長也是我們所有法律人我覺得甚至是我們偶像標竿級的人那院長之前在民進黨裡面被稱為大師兄不是沒有原因的因為院長其實是講道理"},{"start":305.374,"end":333.836,"text":"而且是非常和氣的人他不會像有些人他就是永遠針鋒相對所以這是院長我一直以來對您的看法是如此所以我在第一次質詢您的時候我有說您是這個我民進黨的大師兄那我也蠻希望您能夠做我們全民的大師兄那我想請院長一個問題最近有一個人說他說大罷免是惡的循環民主政治應該是互相妥協"},{"start":336.358,"end":353.205,"text":"大罷免其實它是浪費社會資源和時間削減台灣的優勢和能量公務員更難置身度外別無選擇他只能跟著走反而造成集體的無力感院長您認不認同這句話大罷免是惡的循環這句話嗎是"},{"start":355.287,"end":369.733,"text":"那要看這個二的循環的起點在哪裡因為我剛剛其實念了整段好吧 那沒關係我想講剛剛這句話的人是謝長廷前大使那你以前也被認為是謝系大師兄的領導人物"},{"start":371.033,"end":395.946,"text":"那我也是希望說您跟謝長廷的想法不要有那麼大落差那這段時間我們看到民進黨很多很優秀的前輩像陳水扁 呂秀蓮 謝長廷 林卓水等等的其實都對最近的一些作為發出一些不一樣的建議那我也想說 院長我們需要的是大團結不是大惡霸 不是大罷免所以我一直希望說我們能不能夠為我們這塊土地 台灣"},{"start":396.946,"end":419.741,"text":"台灣是我們的母親台灣她孕育我從小到大都在這塊土地生長所以我也很願意行政立法之間多多的溝通協調我要再次謝謝韓院長兩次促成我們跟黨團都有接觸而且我現在已經安排在下禮拜一我會親自拜訪朝野各黨團希望堅持支持這個特別條例您的想法也是很正向但是做法"},{"start":420.714,"end":443.371,"text":"我是覺得可以再多思考是否我們應該朝向大團結的方向去走因為台灣就這兩千三百五十萬人大家應該要好好的團結一致的對外好那並不能說現在我們眼睛一張開什麼都政治外交的困境也是政治國際關係的問題也是政治國內的民生議題也是政治什麼都搞政治"},{"start":444.318,"end":466.567,"text":"那我覺得這樣是不對的我還是希望走回剛說的後得載物一切以蒼生為念那我們現在談一些民生的議題我想最近我們一直在走綠電綠電有一個伴隨很重要的是儲能廠院長知道嗎 儲能廠 儲電的設備綠電一定要搭配著儲能廠才有意義"},{"start":467.427,"end":485.943,"text":"那我不知道您知不知道在雲林高雄屏東台南有蓋了很多儲能廠但是都發生非常多的抗爭像高雄鳳山那個牛草堡那個儲能廠在2023年2月簽完約之後就開始抗爭就一個月後市府就把他停掉所以"},{"start":487.304,"end":513.204,"text":"我看到這有一個問題啦就是大家考量的是安全問題因為離電池包裝有狀況它很容易就會著火所以呢現在的狀況是我看到這個法規非常的混亂主管機關也非常的混亂譬如說工廠要建設備那要環境不環評那地商政府又有地方自治條例那地方自治條例就會要求這些廠商要提供相關的資料那再接下來呢"},{"start":514.165,"end":533.585,"text":"申請的文件中又還要有消防主管機關就是內政部消防署他要依據那個提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引的標準去審核然後再來最後才是經濟部標準局他看看有沒有符合國家的標準但是作為主管機關的能源署他卻只有一個"},{"start":534.506,"end":563.849,"text":"行政命令就是並往行儲能系統設置區域還有設置安全規範它變成它的位階只是行政命令所以這個東西會讓大家反而會去擔心安全性的問題我現在在講的是民進黨政府積極希望推動的綠能綠能需要有儲能廠搭配但是我們對於儲能廠的法規卻主管機關的能源署卻只存在行政命令的階段那我想請教一下這個可不可以去思考去參考像核子反應設施管理"},{"start":565.286,"end":584.78,"text":"管治法把他提升到法規範法未接我想請教院長跟委員報告那委員的建立是很具體的那我想這個部分因為儲能的安全會涉及到經濟部以外還有其他的部會的法規那我想我們會後續會參照委員的這個意見我們來找"},{"start":588.123,"end":602.141,"text":"拉高層法律未接不能只是行政命令那院長是不是可以一樣就是找一個政委能夠跨部會的來處理來去做這個儲能法專法的設置我不知道院長您知不知此"},{"start":605.417,"end":632.304,"text":"因為我剛提到嘛你看環境部地方政府消防署經濟部標準局能源局一堆的公務機關但是在能源局他就只是一個行政命令的位階那是不是我們可以找一個這個政委能夠跨部會的來把他提升到法衛階因為這個也是有利於民進黨的綠能政策能源署經濟部現在如果是在處理這個事情上面"},{"start":633.724,"end":655.495,"text":"有遇到跨部會的困難必須其他部會比方土地的取得供給等等那我們會再思考由適當的這個政委來進行協調好 那謝謝院長這真的要有一個政委跨部會的來協調這件事情好 那我再請問有關農業部的事情我想這個美國關稅一樣它也會影響到我們宜蘭的漁業"},{"start":657.947,"end":684.184,"text":"我想在座一定也知道我們台灣有一個鬼頭刀鬼頭刀它其實主要的捕魚就是宜蘭、台東跟屏東嘛那依據漁業署它112年統計的資料來看鬼頭刀一年是捕獲4000噸然後美國人還蠻愛吃的但是現在我們外銷美國可能會有兩個事情會卡關第一個就是說美國主導海鮮消費它有一個Fish Choice的"},{"start":684.864,"end":704.84,"text":"他在網站揭露各國漁種在那個Safe to Watch海洋永續指標的評價台灣的鬼頭刀被評價為避免選購的紅燈那我想請教一下這段時間雖然1月屬有很多改進計畫漁民也在努力也把資料通知美國但是我想請教部長"},{"start":706.081,"end":733.189,"text":"這個Seafood Watch有沒有把我們的鬼頭島解除紅燈的警示我想跟委員報告就是鬼頭島本身我們它有兩個有一些不同的level的標準那第一個是FIP的部分那現在我們也輔導了很多很多漁民的漁船去針對FIP我知道它有沒有解除紅燈的警告然後還有MSC所以它沒有所謂說是紅燈或是什麼樣子就是說你要輸美國的時候你一定要符合一些認證的標章"},{"start":734.569,"end":744.415,"text":"所以在產業支持的時候我們特別沒關係啦這樣部長如果你不確定這個就我剛剛跟你講你到你去看那個海洋永續那個"},{"start":745.106,"end":772.333,"text":"指標您去看一下目前被列為紅燈而且被評為避免選購的紅燈啦那漁業署要趕快看能不能夠處理把這個解除那這是第一個那第二個呢那個委員我要跟你澄清一下就是說鬼頭刀輸美國他有一些標準然後不符合這個標準的話就不能進口就所謂他的紅燈不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是"},{"start":774.334,"end":798.173,"text":"歸類為避免選購的商品並不是講到我們抓捕獲漁獲的產品怎麼樣所以我不為難你所以我說你先回去看清楚這個網站的評價那第二個就是關稅的問題啦那關稅呢我覺得還是要因為總是現在對等關稅等等的問題出來會不會造成我們鬼頭島更難銷去美國那是不是說農業部還是要向美國農業部"},{"start":800.754,"end":819.888,"text":"一樣就是說要積極的為漁民去談一下那我知道就是上次漁業署在11號本月11號有到那個蘇澳去溝通這件事因為當天我在這邊質詢人沒有辦法過去我知道漁業所提三個方案低周轉金鼓勵外銷到歐盟還有提升冷凍還有那個衛生設備"},{"start":822.31,"end":841.38,"text":"那我想請教一下因為漁民現在也不好過那你們所提到的提升漁船冷凍還有衛生設備啊這個部分有沒有可能是由政府來全額補助因為畢竟現在環保意識抬頭漁民然後海洋一些枯竭的問題漁民不好過"},{"start":842.461,"end":859.648,"text":"那這些漁業設備呢這些船舶設備上面的那個漁會的冷鏈設備這有沒有可能政府來全額補助他來做我跟委員報告我們已經把因為這次美國關稅的影響已經把我們原來的補助標準從50%提升到60%我們有已經有適度的一個提升"},{"start":864.875,"end":881.857,"text":"好吧那就是沒有辦法回答了好那沒關係了那我再跟你提一個就是好吧那另外一件事情至少可以做的就是說我想鬼頭刀這個產品有很多優勢那是不是說可以找那個教育部大家來溝通一下"},{"start":882.498,"end":901.747,"text":"既然他這個魚的這個品質也都被大家所稱讚那是不是可以在那種食魚教育的角度一出發協助漁民漁會把這個帶到校園當作是一個那個食材的選項之一最後我想沒時間了最後還是上架場的問題"},{"start":903.447,"end":925.039,"text":"那個南方澳漁港目前它沒有上架場那導致我們現在南方澳有700多艘船但是我們現在只剩下一家造船廠還能夠提供漁船上架五條 那個一船道也只剩下三條能用那兩年一小休 五年一大休真的不夠用那麻煩農委會這邊能夠幫忙他們好 謝謝好 謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢謝謝卓院長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":368,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（15時23分）謝謝院長，麻煩請行政院院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：院長午安。在進入民生議題的質詢之前，我先放一個短暫的影片，這是我們上一次總質詢的內容。","（播放影片）"],["吳委員宗憲：先跟院長說明一下，上次我們在質詢的時候，經濟部長質疑我們的數據哪裡來。我這個人是不接受反質詢的，我也不認為官員到國會可以說謊，雖然大法官認為我國非常特殊，官員到國會說謊沒有責任，有別於一般像日本、美國、韓國等等到國會說謊都必須負很嚴重的責任、甚至刑責。","其實我們當天的數據來源是經濟部產發署所發布的，而且中央社也有發布，所以我當時有說：這媒體也有，而且這是經濟部發布的啊！但是您的閣員竟然在現場質疑我們的數據是從哪裡來的。當然我知道以院長的角度，不可能知道一些很細的數據，這我可以了解，但是當時院長您就跟著說，委員雖然言論免責，但是不代表可以不用經過查證。","所以我在這邊先跟院長報告一件事情，您的官員在您面前卻不說真話；我在跟我同仁討論數據的時候，我們都會再三、反覆去確認數據的來源，在質詢完畢之後，我們也再三確認這個數據就是經濟部產發署所提出來的，在稅式支出評估報告裡面就有。我不懂的是，一個經濟部長陪著院長到立法院來接受質詢的時候，卻可以在院長面前說謊，騙自己的院長長官，讓院長長官也因為錯誤的訊息，在這邊認為國會的議員就算言論免責，也不應該未經查證。所以我在這邊先跟院長報告有這件事情，也請院長將來在挑選自己閣員的時候，能夠儘量找不會說謊的人。","如果今天經濟部長有來，我是不會讓他上臺的，因為我不喜歡跟會說謊的人談話，如果經濟部長覺得自己當時是一時不察、記錯數據，那也代表他不是那麼的認真。其實他來這邊備詢的時候，是不是應該要先了解相關的數據？我自己也擔任過政務官，在接受議員質詢的時候，確實有些數據我可能也是覺得有點模糊，但是就模糊的部分，我絕對不會去反駁議員說：你這數據哪裡來的？你哪裡弄錯了！就是不應該去做這樣的反質詢。以上就是我要跟院長報告的，請院長在面對這些閣員的時候，是不是請閣員上班能夠更認真一點，搞清楚自己在做什麼事情？謝謝院長。","院長，最近發生很多事情，我們臺灣其實政治太多、民生太少。執政黨執政這9年，我們都覺得，是不是我們應該更關注民生多一點點？我覺得歷史其實是一個很重要的東西，可以讓我們鑑往知來。我最近看了一下當年我們賴總統在當行政院院長的時候，曾到立法院來拜訪在野黨黨團，當時在野黨黨團有送他一個寫著「厚德載物」四個字的匾額，我們希望當時的賴院長對於這個國家的精神，就像大地一樣厚實，才能夠承載萬物；當然賴院長當時也給我們一個非常溫暖的回應，他說會更進一步請教國民黨的寶貴意見，希望在重大政策上面能夠朝野合作，然後行政院跟立法院也能夠好好的合作。這是他當時的狀況。","但是我們今天看到的是，行政院跟立法院是滿有強度的對抗。院長是法律人，說真的，我以前對院長的印象真的是非常非常好，甚至覺得院長是我們所有法律人的偶像、標竿級的人物。院長之前在民進黨裡面被稱為大師兄不是沒有原因的，因為院長其實是講道理，而且是非常和氣的人，不會像有些人永遠就是針鋒相對，我一直以來對院長的看法是如此，所以我在第一次質詢您的時候有說，您是民進黨的大師兄，我也滿希望您能夠做我們全民的大師兄。","我想請問院長一個問題，最近有一個人說大罷免是「惡的循環」，民主政治應該是互相妥協，這個大罷免其實是浪費社會資源和時間，削減臺灣的優勢和能量，公務員更難置身度外，別無選擇，他只能跟著走，反而造成集體的無力感。院長，您認不認同這一句話？"],["卓院長榮泰：大罷免是「惡的循環」這句話嗎？"],["吳委員宗憲：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：那要看這個惡的循環的起點在哪裡。"],["吳委員宗憲：剛剛我已經念了整段了，好吧，沒關係，其實講這句話的人是謝長廷前大使，你以前也被視為是謝系大師兄級的領導人物，我也希望您跟謝長廷的想法不要有那麼大的落差。這段時間我們看到民進黨很多很優秀的前輩，像陳水扁、呂秀蓮、謝長廷、林濁水等等，其實都對最近的一些作為提出一些不一樣的建議。我也想說：院長，我們需要的是大團結，不是大惡罷，不是大罷免，所以我一直希望我們能不能夠為我們臺灣這塊土地……臺灣是我們的母親，臺灣孕育我們，我從小到大都在這塊土地生長，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我也很願意行政、立法之間多多的溝通、協調……"],["吳委員宗憲：我理解，我相信……"],["卓院長榮泰：我要再次謝謝韓院長兩次促成，我們跟黨團都有接觸，而且我現在已經安排在下禮拜一親自拜訪朝野各黨團，希望能夠支持這個特別條例。"],["吳委員宗憲：我相信院長您的想法也是很正向，但是對於作法我是覺得可以再多思考是否我們應該朝向大團結的方向去走，因為臺灣就這2,350萬人，大家應該要好好的團結，一致的對外，並不能說現在我們眼睛一張開，什麼都政治，外交的困境也是政治，國際關係的問題也是政治，國內的民生議題也是政治，什麼都搞政治，我覺得這樣是不對的，我還是希望走回剛剛說的厚德載物，一切以蒼生為念。","我們現在來談一些民生的議題，最近我們一直在走綠電，那綠電有伴隨一個很重要的部分，就是儲能廠，院長，你知道儲能廠嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是儲電的設備嗎？"],["吳委員宗憲：是，綠電一定要搭配著儲能廠才有意義，您知不知道在雲林、高雄、屏東、臺南有蓋了很多儲能廠，但是都發生了非常多的抗爭？像高雄鳳山牛潮埔那個儲能廠在2023年2月簽完約之後就開始抗爭，結果1個月後市府就把它停掉了。我看到這有一個問題，就是大家考量的是安全問題，因為鋰電池包裝有狀況就會很容易著火。我看到現在的狀況是法規非常的混亂，主管機關也非常的混亂，譬如工廠要建設備就要環境部進行環評，地方政府又有地方自治條例，地方自治條例就會要求這些廠商要提供相關的資料，再接下來在申請的文件中又還要有消防主管機關也就是內政部消防署要依據「提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引」的標準去審核，最後才是經濟部標準局要看看有沒有符合國家的標準。但是作為主管機關的能源署卻只有一個行政命令，就是「併網型儲能系統設置區域及設置安全規範」，變成它的位階只是行政命令，所以這個東西會讓大家反而去擔心安全性的問題。我現在在講的是民進黨政府積極希望推動的綠能，綠能需要有儲能廠搭配，但是對於儲能廠的法規，主管機關能源署卻只有行政命令的位階。那我想請教一下，這個可不可以去參考核子反應器設施管制法，把它提升到法規範、法位階？我想請教院長。"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，委員的建議是很具體的，我想這個部分因為儲能的安全除了涉及經濟部以外，還有其他的部會的法規，我們後續會參照委員的意見來找相關的單位研議。"],["吳委員宗憲：應該拉高到法律位階，而不能只是行政命令。院長，是不是可以找一個政委跨部會的來處理，來設一個儲能的專法？我不知道院長您支不支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：由政委來負責督導……"],["吳委員宗憲：對，因為我剛剛有提到，你看環境部、地方政府、消防署、經濟部標準局、能源署，有一堆的公務機關，但是在能源署就只是一個行政命令的位階，我們是不是可以找一個政委跨部會的來把它提升到法位階，因為這個也是有利於民進黨的綠能政策？"],["卓院長榮泰：能源署、經濟部如果在處理這個事情上面有遇到跨部會的困難，必須由其他部會協助，比方土地的取得、供給等等，我們會再思考由適當的政委來進行協調。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝院長，這真的要有一個政委跨部會的來協調這件事情。","我再請問有關農業部的事情，我想美國關稅一樣也會影響到我們宜蘭的漁業，在座一定也知道我們臺灣有一種叫鬼頭刀的魚，鬼頭刀其實主要就是在宜蘭、臺東跟屏東捕撈，從漁業署112年統計的資料來看，鬼頭刀一年是捕獲4,000噸，美國人還蠻愛吃鬼頭刀的，但是現在我們外銷美國可能會有兩個事情卡關，第一個，主導美國海鮮消費風向的Fish Choice會在網站揭露各國魚種在Seafood Watch等海洋永續指標的評價，臺灣的鬼頭刀被評價為「避免選購」的紅燈，這段時間雖然漁業署有很多改進計畫，漁民也在努力，也有把資料通知美國，但是我想請教部長，Seafood Watch有沒有把我們的鬼頭刀解除紅燈的警示？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，鬼頭刀本身有一些不同level的標準，第一個是FIP的部分，現在我們也輔導了很多漁民的漁船去針對FIP……"],["吳委員宗憲：我知道，它有沒有解除紅燈的警告？"],["陳部長駿季：還有MSC，所以它沒有所謂是紅燈或是什麼樣子，你要輸美國的時候一定要符合一些認證的標章，因此在產業支持方面，我們特別……"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係啦！部長，如果你不確定我剛剛跟你講的，你去看Seafood Watch的海洋永續指標，你去看一下目前被列為紅燈，而且被評為「避免選購」的紅燈，漁業署要趕快看看能不能夠處理，把這個解除，這是第一個。第二個就是……"],["陳部長駿季：對不起！委員，我要跟你澄清一下，鬼頭刀輸美國有一些標準，不符合這個標準的話就不能進口，也就是它所謂的紅燈，但是我們……"],["吳委員宗憲：不是、不是！部長，你答的跟我講的不一樣，我是說他們歸類為「避免選購」的商品，並不是講到我們抓捕獲漁獲的產品怎麼樣，所以我不為難你，你先回去看清楚這個網站的評價。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：第二個就是關稅的問題，因為現在對等關稅或等等的問題出來，會不會造成我們的鬼頭刀更難銷往美國，農業部還是要向美國農業部積極地為漁民去談一下，我知道漁業署在本月11日有到蘇澳去溝通這件事，因為當天我在這邊質詢，人沒有辦法過去，我知道漁業署有提出三個方案，分別是低週轉金、鼓勵外銷到歐盟，還有提升冷凍及衛生設備。我想請教一下，因為漁民現在也不好過，你們所提到的提升漁船冷凍及衛生設備，這個部分有沒有可能由政府來全額補助？因為畢竟現在環保意識抬頭，還有海洋枯竭的問題，漁民也不好過，這些漁業設備、船舶設備、漁會的冷鏈設備，有沒有可能由政府全額補助它來做？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，因為這次美國關稅的影響，我們已經把原來的補助標準從50%提升到60%，我們已經有一個適度的提升。"],["吳委員宗憲：好吧！那就是沒有辦法回答。沒關係，我再跟你提一個問題，另外一件事情至少可以做了，鬼頭刀的產品有很多優勢，是不是可以找教育部大家來溝通一下？既然這個魚的品質也都被大家所稱讚，是不是可以從食漁教育的角度出發，協助漁民、漁會把這個產品帶到校園當作是食材的選項之一？","最後，我沒時間了，我要講的是上架場的問題，南方澳漁港目前沒有上架場，導致南方澳有七百多艘船，但是我們現在只剩下一家造船廠還能夠提供漁船上架，五條曳船道也只剩下三條能用，兩年一小修、五年一大修真的不夠用，麻煩農委會這邊能夠幫忙他們，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳宗憲委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長、各部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，我們現在休息10分鐘。","休息（15時38分）","繼續開會（15時49分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-9","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃國昌","黃珊珊","王定宇","陳素月","葛如鈞","許宇甄","吳琪銘","賴士葆","蔡其昌","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳菁徽","羅明才","吳宗憲","陳超明","黃建賓","張宏陸","丁學忠"],"page_start":30,"meetingDate":["2025-04-25"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00002","1143901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143901_00003"}}}