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\"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 844.808, \"end\": 844.888, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 844.888, \"end\": 844.988, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 844.988, \"end\": 845.088, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 845.088, \"end\": 845.389, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 845.389, \"end\": 845.589, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 845.589, \"end\": 845.789, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 845.789, \"end\": 845.909, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"溫\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 845.909, \"end\": 845.929, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 845.929, \"end\": 846.009, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 846.009, \"end\": 846.189, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 846.189, \"end\": 846.329, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 846.329, \"end\": 846.369, \"score\": 0.461}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 846.369, \"end\": 846.389, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 846.389, \"end\": 846.409, \"score\": 0.174}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,851 --> 00:00:02,072\n我們今天來討論一下你的如何因應在庫下昨天還蠻熱的牢籠底的社福議題\n\n2\n00:00:27,239 --> 00:00:47,018\n那部長在氣候變遷因應法2023年修正上路的時候明確要求政府在氣候調適中要強化脆弱群體因應我們的氣候變遷衝擊的能力這是法律定下來的不是可以模糊掉的責任\n\n3\n00:00:47,498 --> 00:01:05,224\n我知道近期你帶來找衛福部有去推動抗高溫對策聯盟辦過我們的高溫調適研討會也強調整個部會整合其他部會這是我覺得給你高度肯定但是我們回頭檢視112年到115年的國家氣候變遷調適行動計畫\n\n4\n00:01:11,046 --> 00:01:28,479\n五百多頁裡邊衛福部只佔了零星幾頁角色非常的邊緣化參與模式也停留在平台討論還有一場場的研討會而已想問部長你們討論中所理解的弱勢族群有哪些\n\n5\n00:01:29,569 --> 00:01:53,426\n弱勢族群主要是針對例如說低收入者然後還有一個高年齡年長者還有一個小朋友這個是氣候變遷是屬於最弱勢的所以你就講老人啊兒少嘛所以部長你自己也說過你在2024年8月7號的時候也提過是說氣候調適不好做需要各部會一起來不是你單一個環境部\n\n6\n00:01:53,986 --> 00:02:10,826\n那不要像過去各自為政但我想問的是有沒有明確的法源依據的那個分工因為你剛剛提到這些老人也好兒少也好甚至孕婦也好這些弱勢族群的身心狀態這樣靠一個平台會議來協調保障會足夠嗎\n\n7\n00:02:14,389 --> 00:02:41,292\n包委員因為我們的調適就是說其實過去有很多的計畫在做每個部會都大概都有可是我的觀察其實每個部會的計畫就是擺在暑假上沒有辦法落地那現在我們就舉一個像高溫高溫是國人最有感的我們就希望說在那個把各個部會都找來我不要給大家買很大的壓力那錢都是自己大家的錢我們來針對例如說今年的暑假的高溫\n\n8\n00:02:41,952 --> 00:03:08,258\n我們怎麼去做準備有一個可以操作的模式找出來因為我們要落地型的不要講理論型的這個是我們希望有一個目標可是政府以前常常都跟我們講依法行政所以我想問部長我們的棄後法的第八條我們調適事項為什麼沒有特別提到衛福部這是制度設計的缺肉嗎還是環境部認為衛福部在弱勢族群上的保護上沒有這麼關鍵\n\n9\n00:03:10,932 --> 00:03:28,664\n跟委員報告因為氣候變遷因應法它是規範整個調試的主要的計畫的主辦所以由國發會跟環境部來共同主辦那當然每一個部會都有調試需要辦理的工作所以就會在國家調試氣候變遷調試計畫底下去做分工\n\n10\n00:03:29,847 --> 00:03:51,042\n所以因為我剛剛想說你們500多頁的報告裡邊真的衛福部真的非常的擔保可是我們看到就極端的氣候已經成常態了像今年夏天還沒開始上週部分地區都超過36度我們夏天越來越長那根據衛福部的統計呢在2023年6月8號跟2024年的6月8號這個同期去比較成長了七成\n\n11\n00:03:57,306 --> 00:04:24,389\n已經到達了2600多人也就是說這樣子的一個就診人數因為熱而就診人數至少是提高的那因為老人跟慢性疾病患者在庫下當中死亡的風險明顯也是比一般人高的可是今天我要強調的是面對我們的極端氣候最脆弱的不是剛才部長提的所謂的只有老人幼兒而已甚至慢性疾病\n\n12\n00:04:25,029 --> 00:04:34,615\n要被關注以外我們還有一個叫做社會福利的弱勢的一個禁慾的族群就像你剛剛講的你有特別提到低收入戶那個經濟弱勢的確我們從民間在服務的經驗裡面像萬華\n\n13\n00:04:40,578 --> 00:04:58,499\n士林那邊經濟弱勢租戶多住在老舊還有違建通風不良的房屋裡面陷入一個越窮越熱越熱越窮的二線循環另外一個就是無家者像萬華地區那邊\n\n14\n00:04:59,804 --> 00:05:19,067\n夏天白天都頂著高溫在打零工可是晚上要住公園也是熱得難以沉眠那在處理他們的這相關的協會都會反映說夏日食物腐敗中暑的這些問題都很嚴重那沒有地方可以避暑\n\n15\n00:05:19,963 --> 00:05:45,341\n那我們自己在看一些研究也發現每多高溫一度那相關人際暴力行為就增加約大4到6%也會高比例的觸發精神疾病高溫對於高風險家庭也是一個潛在的危險因子所以部長從環境部的角度我剛剛提的這些狀況是不是也是你氣候調適的一個重要議題\n\n16\n00:05:46,701 --> 00:06:13,797\n對是的委員其實第一個是說我們那個平台會把這個委員提到的項目我會特別交代把它納進來如何幫忙那我們過去有一個想法就是說例如說我們把可以有空調公共空調的地方讓公開讓大家知道他可以去但是可能晚上可能就沒有辦法所以我們會來好好來討論如何委員說的如果酷暑的時候這種所謂的弱勢族群該怎麼辦對部長所以我覺得除了我們剛剛\n\n17\n00:06:15,694 --> 00:06:43,624\n你剛剛提到我覺得我們比較時常關心的生理弱勢族群像老人幼兒甚至孕婦環境部也比較看起來剛剛聽起來也是比較重視這一些所以要請部長我剛剛簡報當中從社福機構盤點出來經濟弱勢無家者社福機構像安置機構長照機構高風險家庭甚至有身心障礙的罕見疾病未來環境部準備要如何有效的去跟我們的社政系統對接\n\n18\n00:06:45,084 --> 00:07:06,469\n主動提供資源來保護這些風險中的弱勢所以我先問你法規的支持是否足夠目前只有一個大項例如說這個屬於像這樣的族群可能是未婦不負責但是我們是覺得是說因為要修一個法要花很多的時間那我們希望在今年就有一個操作的一個機會所以意思是說你今年政策會有\n\n19\n00:07:07,604 --> 00:07:32,320\n這樣的相關的提出嗎就是執行上我們就會拿今年的這個夏天的熱來當成說我們哪裡有缺點能夠來改進可以實際上可以運作的空間因為法歸法執行歸執行對部長延續你剛剛這些回應我因為我過去事實上是一個社會福利的工作者要聚焦到一個非常現實的問題就是補助資源的一個問題\n\n20\n00:07:34,485 --> 00:08:01,284\n因為剛剛前面就講了低收中低收就是經濟弱勢所以整個社會體系跟我們的氣候政策雙方都彼此事實上是認識不足的所以有社工的學者指出說台灣社會對貧窮的想像不能還停留在十一住行的匱乏實際上能源貧窮跟高溫的威脅早已經事實上是經濟弱勢家庭每天的生存危機所以台\n\n21\n00:08:01,904 --> 00:08:30,530\n大風險中心最新的研究發現說台灣有55%的弱勢家庭他們能源支出超過收入的10%甚至到30%那他就已經經濟弱勢可是這個支出又佔了他佔比將近到三分之一所以他完全事實上是能源貧窮的族群更慘的是政府的氣候變遷支援弱勢族群事實上是用不到了譬如政府推我們的所謂的能源\n\n22\n00:08:31,190 --> 00:08:56,425\n家電的補助22%以上弱勢家庭因為付不起致富額他根本也用不到那根本就沒有辦法說我要來太舊換新把那個耗電的冷氣換掉更沒辦法所以他們來白天呢住在比較室溫超過35度的房間裡面只能用越吹越貴的破冷氣來陷入惡性循環所以部長針對於能源\n\n23\n00:08:57,846 --> 00:09:26,078\n貧窮的這個議題你到底現在目前有對策嗎因為這個我們過去政府的補助節能家電只有例如說3000塊跟2000塊通過5000塊的確是沒有針對這個弱勢的族群來做這些事啦那我想我會在我們那個高溫的平台裡面跟個跨部因為那個是跨部會的我們會來討論是希望部長可能趕快提出來因為我詢問了一些兒燒安置機構就育幼院俗稱我們過去育幼院多數都不知道你的有能源補助喔\n\n24\n00:09:26,838 --> 00:09:45,572\n知道的也反映說因為規則太僵硬因為一個20個孩子你只補助兩胎可是根本就不了解育幼院的生態他們小家小家住為了讓他們有家的感覺小家小家住所以你只因為因應孩子的多寡而去補助這樣的話\n\n25\n00:09:46,292 --> 00:09:48,073\n根本就是不太了解社福機構的常態\n\n26\n00:10:16,613 --> 00:10:37,033\n支援能源政策包委我們大概是五月底聯盟會成立現在已經開過會了那我答應委員這個部分我會特別找相關的部會來討論如何解決這個問題因為這個的確有些地方是設空調中心你可以到那個地方去布但是這個是最簡單的做法\n\n27\n00:10:37,193 --> 00:10:46,385\n我們可不可以接近於我們比較鄰近的國家所以他們也是跟我們一樣所以台灣在極端的高溫下對於受弱勢的保護政策\n\n28\n00:10:47,659 --> 00:11:07,996\n一下人家日韓到底怎麼做啦所以提出三點的意見跟部長來做交換意見韓國從中央層級的推動在全國建置超過五萬處的避暑中心那包含跟商店合作友善標章你剛才也提到說台灣也嘗試要這樣做那可不可以更擴大\n\n29\n00:11:08,897 --> 00:11:21,104\n遇到高溫預警的主動開放並以公開線上地圖讓民眾方便查詢來做使用日本也在地方設置了我們的暑熱避難的設施提供基礎的標準的設備\n\n30\n00:11:24,198 --> 00:11:51,837\n像比如說要有冷氣要有飲水還有一些休息的空間可是反觀台灣有類似這樣子制度可是地方落實狀況相差非常的大有些避暑空間設施標準事實上是參差不齊的所以想問部長說如何你評估台灣現在的避暑空間的落實效益是什麼是不是有效能夠協助到無家者或者是高溫預警下的有需要的民眾\n\n31\n00:11:52,819 --> 00:12:20,189\n包委員其實我的了解是還不真的很不夠啦所以委員像這個就是我自己很想要做的目標我會我會照委員建議來進行希望你可能要趕快做再來就政府對高溫預警的通知必須要在制度上規劃轉換成有效的社福行動因為日橫在高溫預警的發布後社區的社工和村里長長照的人員都會啟動列管個案主動去探訪跟聯繫提醒\n\n32\n00:12:22,191 --> 00:12:44,687\n這個我覺得你跟衛福部一定要能夠兩方可以去合作否則的話你這邊要做可是他們會去接觸到個案可是個案那邊他們沒有去做這樣的方式來建立基礎的社工跟社福相關有清楚的氣候預警的功能角色我覺得可能要由環境部來召開最後就是資源能源補助是不是符合這些弱勢族群的需求所以韓國把\n\n33\n00:12:46,048 --> 00:13:07,942\n我們的溫度貧窮議題串聯我們的社工社政法規直接對準對象發所謂的能源券讓低收入戶寄養家庭不用過度擔心能源的費用我們還要考慮到寄養家庭他在照顧別人的小孩照顧我們沒辦法回到家庭的那個小孩\n\n34\n00:13:08,542 --> 00:13:35,022\n所以日本就透過一些電費的補助來讓經濟弱勢不會有顧慮所以我覺得台灣可能要去考慮所以我想問部長是不是在能源補助政策之外研擬相關的能夠讓他們使用到這樣子的資源的支持最後就還是期待是不是建立法定的環境部跟我們的衛福部的一些合作機制還有有一些應對能源政策的\n\n35\n00:13:35,662 --> 00:13:59,404\n補助貧窮然後能夠讓社福機構能夠到位所以是不是在兩週內可以告訴我們你大家要怎麼去做好委員因為我們應該是五月下旬才會正式宣布啦那可不可以給我們一個月的時間那委員的建議我們會好再麻煩因為你的建議非常好因為社福機構很多時候是靠募款的如果很多大部分的錢那又要用在這\n\n36\n00:14:00,184 --> 00:14:06,409\n那他們可能用在孩子身上的地方就會變少我們到時候聯盟成立也希望委員可以給我們指導一下高溫已經是個很重要的議題了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n851\t2072\t我們今天來討論一下你的如何因應在庫下昨天還蠻熱的 牢籠底的社福議題\n27239\t47018\t那部長在氣候變遷因應法2023年修正上路的時候明確要求政府在氣候調適中要強化脆弱群體因應我們的氣候變遷衝擊的能力這是法律定下來的不是可以模糊掉的責任\n47498\t65224\t我知道近期你帶來找衛福部有去推動抗高溫對策聯盟辦過我們的高溫調適研討會也強調整個部會整合其他部會這是我覺得給你高度肯定但是我們回頭檢視112年到115年的國家氣候變遷調適行動計畫\n71046\t88479\t五百多頁裡邊衛福部只佔了零星幾頁角色非常的邊緣化參與模式也停留在平台討論還有一場場的研討會而已想問部長你們討論中所理解的弱勢族群有哪些\n89569\t113426\t弱勢族群主要是針對例如說低收入者然後還有一個高年齡年長者還有一個小朋友這個是氣候變遷是屬於最弱勢的所以你就講老人啊兒少嘛所以部長你自己也說過你在2024年8月7號的時候也提過是說氣候調適不好做需要各部會一起來不是你單一個環境部\n113986\t130826\t那不要像過去各自為政但我想問的是有沒有明確的法源依據的那個分工因為你剛剛提到這些老人也好兒少也好甚至孕婦也好這些弱勢族群的身心狀態這樣靠一個平台會議來協調保障會足夠嗎\n134389\t161292\t包委員因為我們的調適就是說其實過去有很多的計畫在做每個部會都大概都有可是我的觀察其實每個部會的計畫就是擺在暑假上沒有辦法落地那現在我們就舉一個像高溫高溫是國人最有感的我們就希望說在那個把各個部會都找來我不要給大家買很大的壓力那錢都是自己大家的錢我們來針對例如說今年的暑假的高溫\n161952\t188258\t我們怎麼去做準備有一個可以操作的模式找出來因為我們要落地型的不要講理論型的這個是我們希望有一個目標可是政府以前常常都跟我們講依法行政所以我想問部長我們的棄後法的第八條我們調適事項為什麼沒有特別提到衛福部這是制度設計的缺肉嗎還是環境部認為衛福部在弱勢族群上的保護上沒有這麼關鍵\n190932\t208664\t跟委員報告因為氣候變遷因應法它是規範整個調試的主要的計畫的主辦所以由國發會跟環境部來共同主辦那當然每一個部會都有調試需要辦理的工作所以就會在國家調試氣候變遷調試計畫底下去做分工\n209847\t231042\t所以因為我剛剛想說你們500多頁的報告裡邊真的衛福部真的非常的擔保可是我們看到就極端的氣候已經成常態了像今年夏天還沒開始上週部分地區都超過36度我們夏天越來越長那根據衛福部的統計呢在2023年6月8號跟2024年的6月8號這個同期去比較成長了七成\n237306\t264389\t已經到達了2600多人也就是說這樣子的一個就診人數因為熱而就診人數至少是提高的那因為老人跟慢性疾病患者在庫下當中死亡的風險明顯也是比一般人高的可是今天我要強調的是面對我們的極端氣候最脆弱的不是剛才部長提的所謂的只有老人幼兒而已甚至慢性疾病\n265029\t274615\t要被關注以外我們還有一個叫做社會福利的弱勢的一個禁慾的族群就像你剛剛講的你有特別提到低收入戶那個經濟弱勢的確我們從民間在服務的經驗裡面像萬華\n280578\t298499\t士林那邊經濟弱勢租戶多住在老舊還有違建通風不良的房屋裡面陷入一個越窮越熱越熱越窮的二線循環另外一個就是無家者像萬華地區那邊\n299804\t319067\t夏天白天都頂著高溫在打零工可是晚上要住公園也是熱得難以沉眠那在處理他們的這相關的協會都會反映說夏日食物腐敗中暑的這些問題都很嚴重那沒有地方可以避暑\n319963\t345341\t那我們自己在看一些研究也發現每多高溫一度那相關人際暴力行為就增加約大4到6%也會高比例的觸發精神疾病高溫對於高風險家庭也是一個潛在的危險因子所以部長從環境部的角度我剛剛提的這些狀況是不是也是你氣候調適的一個重要議題\n346701\t373797\t對是的委員其實第一個是說我們那個平台會把這個委員提到的項目我會特別交代把它納進來如何幫忙那我們過去有一個想法就是說例如說我們把可以有空調公共空調的地方讓公開讓大家知道他可以去但是可能晚上可能就沒有辦法所以我們會來好好來討論如何委員說的如果酷暑的時候這種所謂的弱勢族群該怎麼辦對部長所以我覺得除了我們剛剛\n375694\t403624\t你剛剛提到 我覺得我們比較時常關心的生理弱勢族群 像老人幼兒甚至孕婦環境部也比較看起來 剛剛聽起來也是比較重視這一些所以要請部長我剛剛簡報當中從社福機構盤點出來經濟弱勢無家者 社福機構像安置機構 長照機構 高風險家庭甚至有身心障礙的罕見疾病未來環境部準備要如何有效的去跟我們的社政系統對接\n405084\t426469\t主動提供資源來保護這些風險中的弱勢所以我先問你法規的支持是否足夠目前只有一個大項例如說這個屬於像這樣的族群可能是未婦不負責但是我們是覺得是說因為要修一個法要花很多的時間那我們希望在今年就有一個操作的一個機會所以意思是說你今年政策會有\n427604\t452320\t這樣的相關的提出嗎就是執行上我們就會拿今年的這個夏天的熱來當成說我們哪裡有缺點能夠來改進可以實際上可以運作的空間因為法歸法執行歸執行對部長延續你剛剛這些回應我因為我過去事實上是一個社會福利的工作者要聚焦到一個非常現實的問題就是補助資源的一個問題\n454485\t481284\t因為剛剛前面就講了低收中低收就是經濟弱勢所以整個社會體系跟我們的氣候政策雙方都彼此事實上是認識不足的所以有社工的學者指出說台灣社會對貧窮的想像不能還停留在十一住行的匱乏實際上能源貧窮跟高溫的威脅早已經事實上是經濟弱勢家庭每天的生存危機所以台\n481904\t510530\t大風險中心最新的研究發現說台灣有55%的弱勢家庭他們能源支出超過收入的10%甚至到30%那他就已經經濟弱勢可是這個支出又佔了他佔比將近到三分之一所以他完全事實上是能源貧窮的族群更慘的是政府的氣候變遷支援弱勢族群事實上是用不到了譬如政府推我們的所謂的能源\n511190\t536425\t家電的補助22%以上弱勢家庭因為付不起致富額他根本也用不到那根本就沒有辦法說我要來太舊換新把那個耗電的冷氣換掉更沒辦法所以他們來白天呢住在比較室溫超過35度的房間裡面只能用越吹越貴的破冷氣來陷入惡性循環所以部長針對於能源\n537846\t566078\t貧窮的這個議題你到底現在目前有對策嗎因為這個我們過去政府的補助節能家電只有例如說3000塊跟2000塊通過5000塊的確是沒有針對這個弱勢的族群來做這些事啦那我想我會在我們那個高溫的平台裡面跟個跨部因為那個是跨部會的我們會來討論是希望部長可能趕快提出來因為我詢問了一些兒燒安置機構就育幼院俗稱我們過去育幼院多數都不知道你的有能源補助喔\n566838\t585572\t知道的也反映說因為規則太僵硬因為一個20個孩子你只補助兩胎可是根本就不了解育幼院的生態他們小家小家住為了讓他們有家的感覺小家小家住所以你只因為因應孩子的多寡而去補助這樣的話\n586292\t588073\t根本就是不太了解社福機構的常態\n616613\t637033\t支援能源政策包委我們大概是五月底聯盟會成立現在已經開過會了那我答應委員這個部分我會特別找相關的部會來討論如何解決這個問題因為這個的確有些地方是設空調中心你可以到那個地方去布但是這個是最簡單的做法\n637193\t646385\t我們可不可以接近於我們比較鄰近的國家所以他們也是跟我們一樣所以台灣在極端的高溫下對於受弱勢的保護政策\n647659\t667996\t一下人家日韓到底怎麼做啦所以提出三點的意見跟部長來做交換意見韓國從中央層級的推動在全國建置超過五萬處的避暑中心那包含跟商店合作友善標章你剛才也提到說台灣也嘗試要這樣做那可不可以更擴大\n668897\t681104\t遇到高溫預警的主動開放並以公開線上地圖讓民眾方便查詢來做使用日本也在地方設置了我們的暑熱避難的設施提供基礎的標準的設備\n684198\t711837\t像比如說要有冷氣要有飲水還有一些休息的空間可是反觀台灣有類似這樣子制度可是地方落實狀況相差非常的大有些避暑空間設施標準事實上是參差不齊的所以想問部長說如何你評估台灣現在的避暑空間的落實效益是什麼是不是有效能夠協助到無家者或者是高溫預警下的有需要的民眾\n712819\t740189\t包委員其實我的了解是還不真的很不夠啦所以委員像這個就是我自己很想要做的目標我會我會照委員建議來進行希望你可能要趕快做再來就政府對高溫預警的通知必須要在制度上規劃轉換成有效的社福行動因為日橫在高溫預警的發布後社區的社工和村里長長照的人員都會啟動列管個案主動去探訪跟聯繫提醒\n742191\t764687\t這個我覺得你跟衛福部一定要能夠兩方可以去合作否則的話你這邊要做可是他們會去接觸到個案可是個案那邊他們沒有去做這樣的方式來建立基礎的社工跟社福相關有清楚的氣候預警的功能角色我覺得可能要由環境部來召開最後就是資源能源補助是不是符合這些弱勢族群的需求所以韓國把\n766048\t787942\t我們的溫度貧窮議題串聯我們的社工 社政法規直接對準對象發所謂的能源券讓低收入戶寄養家庭不用過度擔心能源的費用我們還要考慮到寄養家庭他在照顧別人的小孩照顧我們沒辦法回到家庭的那個小孩\n788542\t815022\t所以日本就透過一些電費的補助來讓經濟弱勢不會有顧慮所以我覺得台灣可能要去考慮所以我想問部長是不是在能源補助政策之外研擬相關的能夠讓他們使用到這樣子的資源的支持最後就還是期待是不是建立法定的環境部跟我們的衛福部的一些合作機制還有有一些應對能源政策的\n815662\t839404\t補助貧窮然後能夠讓社福機構能夠到位所以是不是在兩週內可以告訴我們你大家要怎麼去做好委員因為我們應該是五月下旬才會正式宣布啦那可不可以給我們一個月的時間那委員的建議我們會好再麻煩因為你的建議非常好因為社福機構很多時候是靠募款的如果很多大部分的錢那又要用在這\n840184\t846409\t那他們可能用在孩子身上的地方就會變少我們到時候聯盟成立也希望委員可以給我們指導一下高溫已經是個很重要的議題了\n","txt":"我們今天來討論一下你的如何因應在庫下昨天還蠻熱的 牢籠底的社福議題\n那部長在氣候變遷因應法2023年修正上路的時候明確要求政府在氣候調適中要強化脆弱群體因應我們的氣候變遷衝擊的能力這是法律定下來的不是可以模糊掉的責任\n我知道近期你帶來找衛福部有去推動抗高溫對策聯盟辦過我們的高溫調適研討會也強調整個部會整合其他部會這是我覺得給你高度肯定但是我們回頭檢視112年到115年的國家氣候變遷調適行動計畫\n五百多頁裡邊衛福部只佔了零星幾頁角色非常的邊緣化參與模式也停留在平台討論還有一場場的研討會而已想問部長你們討論中所理解的弱勢族群有哪些\n弱勢族群主要是針對例如說低收入者然後還有一個高年齡年長者還有一個小朋友這個是氣候變遷是屬於最弱勢的所以你就講老人啊兒少嘛所以部長你自己也說過你在2024年8月7號的時候也提過是說氣候調適不好做需要各部會一起來不是你單一個環境部\n那不要像過去各自為政但我想問的是有沒有明確的法源依據的那個分工因為你剛剛提到這些老人也好兒少也好甚至孕婦也好這些弱勢族群的身心狀態這樣靠一個平台會議來協調保障會足夠嗎\n包委員因為我們的調適就是說其實過去有很多的計畫在做每個部會都大概都有可是我的觀察其實每個部會的計畫就是擺在暑假上沒有辦法落地那現在我們就舉一個像高溫高溫是國人最有感的我們就希望說在那個把各個部會都找來我不要給大家買很大的壓力那錢都是自己大家的錢我們來針對例如說今年的暑假的高溫\n我們怎麼去做準備有一個可以操作的模式找出來因為我們要落地型的不要講理論型的這個是我們希望有一個目標可是政府以前常常都跟我們講依法行政所以我想問部長我們的棄後法的第八條我們調適事項為什麼沒有特別提到衛福部這是制度設計的缺肉嗎還是環境部認為衛福部在弱勢族群上的保護上沒有這麼關鍵\n跟委員報告因為氣候變遷因應法它是規範整個調試的主要的計畫的主辦所以由國發會跟環境部來共同主辦那當然每一個部會都有調試需要辦理的工作所以就會在國家調試氣候變遷調試計畫底下去做分工\n所以因為我剛剛想說你們500多頁的報告裡邊真的衛福部真的非常的擔保可是我們看到就極端的氣候已經成常態了像今年夏天還沒開始上週部分地區都超過36度我們夏天越來越長那根據衛福部的統計呢在2023年6月8號跟2024年的6月8號這個同期去比較成長了七成\n已經到達了2600多人也就是說這樣子的一個就診人數因為熱而就診人數至少是提高的那因為老人跟慢性疾病患者在庫下當中死亡的風險明顯也是比一般人高的可是今天我要強調的是面對我們的極端氣候最脆弱的不是剛才部長提的所謂的只有老人幼兒而已甚至慢性疾病\n要被關注以外我們還有一個叫做社會福利的弱勢的一個禁慾的族群就像你剛剛講的你有特別提到低收入戶那個經濟弱勢的確我們從民間在服務的經驗裡面像萬華\n士林那邊經濟弱勢租戶多住在老舊還有違建通風不良的房屋裡面陷入一個越窮越熱越熱越窮的二線循環另外一個就是無家者像萬華地區那邊\n夏天白天都頂著高溫在打零工可是晚上要住公園也是熱得難以沉眠那在處理他們的這相關的協會都會反映說夏日食物腐敗中暑的這些問題都很嚴重那沒有地方可以避暑\n那我們自己在看一些研究也發現每多高溫一度那相關人際暴力行為就增加約大4到6%也會高比例的觸發精神疾病高溫對於高風險家庭也是一個潛在的危險因子所以部長從環境部的角度我剛剛提的這些狀況是不是也是你氣候調適的一個重要議題\n對是的委員其實第一個是說我們那個平台會把這個委員提到的項目我會特別交代把它納進來如何幫忙那我們過去有一個想法就是說例如說我們把可以有空調公共空調的地方讓公開讓大家知道他可以去但是可能晚上可能就沒有辦法所以我們會來好好來討論如何委員說的如果酷暑的時候這種所謂的弱勢族群該怎麼辦對部長所以我覺得除了我們剛剛\n你剛剛提到 我覺得我們比較時常關心的生理弱勢族群 像老人幼兒甚至孕婦環境部也比較看起來 剛剛聽起來也是比較重視這一些所以要請部長我剛剛簡報當中從社福機構盤點出來經濟弱勢無家者 社福機構像安置機構 長照機構 高風險家庭甚至有身心障礙的罕見疾病未來環境部準備要如何有效的去跟我們的社政系統對接\n主動提供資源來保護這些風險中的弱勢所以我先問你法規的支持是否足夠目前只有一個大項例如說這個屬於像這樣的族群可能是未婦不負責但是我們是覺得是說因為要修一個法要花很多的時間那我們希望在今年就有一個操作的一個機會所以意思是說你今年政策會有\n這樣的相關的提出嗎就是執行上我們就會拿今年的這個夏天的熱來當成說我們哪裡有缺點能夠來改進可以實際上可以運作的空間因為法歸法執行歸執行對部長延續你剛剛這些回應我因為我過去事實上是一個社會福利的工作者要聚焦到一個非常現實的問題就是補助資源的一個問題\n因為剛剛前面就講了低收中低收就是經濟弱勢所以整個社會體系跟我們的氣候政策雙方都彼此事實上是認識不足的所以有社工的學者指出說台灣社會對貧窮的想像不能還停留在十一住行的匱乏實際上能源貧窮跟高溫的威脅早已經事實上是經濟弱勢家庭每天的生存危機所以台\n大風險中心最新的研究發現說台灣有55%的弱勢家庭他們能源支出超過收入的10%甚至到30%那他就已經經濟弱勢可是這個支出又佔了他佔比將近到三分之一所以他完全事實上是能源貧窮的族群更慘的是政府的氣候變遷支援弱勢族群事實上是用不到了譬如政府推我們的所謂的能源\n家電的補助22%以上弱勢家庭因為付不起致富額他根本也用不到那根本就沒有辦法說我要來太舊換新把那個耗電的冷氣換掉更沒辦法所以他們來白天呢住在比較室溫超過35度的房間裡面只能用越吹越貴的破冷氣來陷入惡性循環所以部長針對於能源\n貧窮的這個議題你到底現在目前有對策嗎因為這個我們過去政府的補助節能家電只有例如說3000塊跟2000塊通過5000塊的確是沒有針對這個弱勢的族群來做這些事啦那我想我會在我們那個高溫的平台裡面跟個跨部因為那個是跨部會的我們會來討論是希望部長可能趕快提出來因為我詢問了一些兒燒安置機構就育幼院俗稱我們過去育幼院多數都不知道你的有能源補助喔\n知道的也反映說因為規則太僵硬因為一個20個孩子你只補助兩胎可是根本就不了解育幼院的生態他們小家小家住為了讓他們有家的感覺小家小家住所以你只因為因應孩子的多寡而去補助這樣的話\n根本就是不太了解社福機構的常態\n支援能源政策包委我們大概是五月底聯盟會成立現在已經開過會了那我答應委員這個部分我會特別找相關的部會來討論如何解決這個問題因為這個的確有些地方是設空調中心你可以到那個地方去布但是這個是最簡單的做法\n我們可不可以接近於我們比較鄰近的國家所以他們也是跟我們一樣所以台灣在極端的高溫下對於受弱勢的保護政策\n一下人家日韓到底怎麼做啦所以提出三點的意見跟部長來做交換意見韓國從中央層級的推動在全國建置超過五萬處的避暑中心那包含跟商店合作友善標章你剛才也提到說台灣也嘗試要這樣做那可不可以更擴大\n遇到高溫預警的主動開放並以公開線上地圖讓民眾方便查詢來做使用日本也在地方設置了我們的暑熱避難的設施提供基礎的標準的設備\n像比如說要有冷氣要有飲水還有一些休息的空間可是反觀台灣有類似這樣子制度可是地方落實狀況相差非常的大有些避暑空間設施標準事實上是參差不齊的所以想問部長說如何你評估台灣現在的避暑空間的落實效益是什麼是不是有效能夠協助到無家者或者是高溫預警下的有需要的民眾\n包委員其實我的了解是還不真的很不夠啦所以委員像這個就是我自己很想要做的目標我會我會照委員建議來進行希望你可能要趕快做再來就政府對高溫預警的通知必須要在制度上規劃轉換成有效的社福行動因為日橫在高溫預警的發布後社區的社工和村里長長照的人員都會啟動列管個案主動去探訪跟聯繫提醒\n這個我覺得你跟衛福部一定要能夠兩方可以去合作否則的話你這邊要做可是他們會去接觸到個案可是個案那邊他們沒有去做這樣的方式來建立基礎的社工跟社福相關有清楚的氣候預警的功能角色我覺得可能要由環境部來召開最後就是資源能源補助是不是符合這些弱勢族群的需求所以韓國把\n我們的溫度貧窮議題串聯我們的社工 社政法規直接對準對象發所謂的能源券讓低收入戶寄養家庭不用過度擔心能源的費用我們還要考慮到寄養家庭他在照顧別人的小孩照顧我們沒辦法回到家庭的那個小孩\n所以日本就透過一些電費的補助來讓經濟弱勢不會有顧慮所以我覺得台灣可能要去考慮所以我想問部長是不是在能源補助政策之外研擬相關的能夠讓他們使用到這樣子的資源的支持最後就還是期待是不是建立法定的環境部跟我們的衛福部的一些合作機制還有有一些應對能源政策的\n補助貧窮然後能夠讓社福機構能夠到位所以是不是在兩週內可以告訴我們你大家要怎麼去做好委員因為我們應該是五月下旬才會正式宣布啦那可不可以給我們一個月的時間那委員的建議我們會好再麻煩因為你的建議非常好因為社福機構很多時候是靠募款的如果很多大部分的錢那又要用在這\n那他們可能用在孩子身上的地方就會變少我們到時候聯盟成立也希望委員可以給我們指導一下高溫已經是個很重要的議題了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.851 --> 00:02.072\n我們今天來討論一下你的如何因應在庫下昨天還蠻熱的牢籠底的社福議題\n\n00:27.239 --> 00:47.018\n那部長在氣候變遷因應法2023年修正上路的時候明確要求政府在氣候調適中要強化脆弱群體因應我們的氣候變遷衝擊的能力這是法律定下來的不是可以模糊掉的責任\n\n00:47.498 --> 01:05.224\n我知道近期你帶來找衛福部有去推動抗高溫對策聯盟辦過我們的高溫調適研討會也強調整個部會整合其他部會這是我覺得給你高度肯定但是我們回頭檢視112年到115年的國家氣候變遷調適行動計畫\n\n01:11.046 --> 01:28.479\n五百多頁裡邊衛福部只佔了零星幾頁角色非常的邊緣化參與模式也停留在平台討論還有一場場的研討會而已想問部長你們討論中所理解的弱勢族群有哪些\n\n01:29.569 --> 01:53.426\n弱勢族群主要是針對例如說低收入者然後還有一個高年齡年長者還有一個小朋友這個是氣候變遷是屬於最弱勢的所以你就講老人啊兒少嘛所以部長你自己也說過你在2024年8月7號的時候也提過是說氣候調適不好做需要各部會一起來不是你單一個環境部\n\n01:53.986 --> 02:10.826\n那不要像過去各自為政但我想問的是有沒有明確的法源依據的那個分工因為你剛剛提到這些老人也好兒少也好甚至孕婦也好這些弱勢族群的身心狀態這樣靠一個平台會議來協調保障會足夠嗎\n\n02:14.389 --> 02:41.292\n包委員因為我們的調適就是說其實過去有很多的計畫在做每個部會都大概都有可是我的觀察其實每個部會的計畫就是擺在暑假上沒有辦法落地那現在我們就舉一個像高溫高溫是國人最有感的我們就希望說在那個把各個部會都找來我不要給大家買很大的壓力那錢都是自己大家的錢我們來針對例如說今年的暑假的高溫\n\n02:41.952 --> 03:08.258\n我們怎麼去做準備有一個可以操作的模式找出來因為我們要落地型的不要講理論型的這個是我們希望有一個目標可是政府以前常常都跟我們講依法行政所以我想問部長我們的棄後法的第八條我們調適事項為什麼沒有特別提到衛福部這是制度設計的缺肉嗎還是環境部認為衛福部在弱勢族群上的保護上沒有這麼關鍵\n\n03:10.932 --> 03:28.664\n跟委員報告因為氣候變遷因應法它是規範整個調試的主要的計畫的主辦所以由國發會跟環境部來共同主辦那當然每一個部會都有調試需要辦理的工作所以就會在國家調試氣候變遷調試計畫底下去做分工\n\n03:29.847 --> 03:51.042\n所以因為我剛剛想說你們500多頁的報告裡邊真的衛福部真的非常的擔保可是我們看到就極端的氣候已經成常態了像今年夏天還沒開始上週部分地區都超過36度我們夏天越來越長那根據衛福部的統計呢在2023年6月8號跟2024年的6月8號這個同期去比較成長了七成\n\n03:57.306 --> 04:24.389\n已經到達了2600多人也就是說這樣子的一個就診人數因為熱而就診人數至少是提高的那因為老人跟慢性疾病患者在庫下當中死亡的風險明顯也是比一般人高的可是今天我要強調的是面對我們的極端氣候最脆弱的不是剛才部長提的所謂的只有老人幼兒而已甚至慢性疾病\n\n04:25.029 --> 04:34.615\n要被關注以外我們還有一個叫做社會福利的弱勢的一個禁慾的族群就像你剛剛講的你有特別提到低收入戶那個經濟弱勢的確我們從民間在服務的經驗裡面像萬華\n\n04:40.578 --> 04:58.499\n士林那邊經濟弱勢租戶多住在老舊還有違建通風不良的房屋裡面陷入一個越窮越熱越熱越窮的二線循環另外一個就是無家者像萬華地區那邊\n\n04:59.804 --> 05:19.067\n夏天白天都頂著高溫在打零工可是晚上要住公園也是熱得難以沉眠那在處理他們的這相關的協會都會反映說夏日食物腐敗中暑的這些問題都很嚴重那沒有地方可以避暑\n\n05:19.963 --> 05:45.341\n那我們自己在看一些研究也發現每多高溫一度那相關人際暴力行為就增加約大4到6%也會高比例的觸發精神疾病高溫對於高風險家庭也是一個潛在的危險因子所以部長從環境部的角度我剛剛提的這些狀況是不是也是你氣候調適的一個重要議題\n\n05:46.701 --> 06:13.797\n對是的委員其實第一個是說我們那個平台會把這個委員提到的項目我會特別交代把它納進來如何幫忙那我們過去有一個想法就是說例如說我們把可以有空調公共空調的地方讓公開讓大家知道他可以去但是可能晚上可能就沒有辦法所以我們會來好好來討論如何委員說的如果酷暑的時候這種所謂的弱勢族群該怎麼辦對部長所以我覺得除了我們剛剛\n\n06:15.694 --> 06:43.624\n你剛剛提到我覺得我們比較時常關心的生理弱勢族群像老人幼兒甚至孕婦環境部也比較看起來剛剛聽起來也是比較重視這一些所以要請部長我剛剛簡報當中從社福機構盤點出來經濟弱勢無家者社福機構像安置機構長照機構高風險家庭甚至有身心障礙的罕見疾病未來環境部準備要如何有效的去跟我們的社政系統對接\n\n06:45.084 --> 07:06.469\n主動提供資源來保護這些風險中的弱勢所以我先問你法規的支持是否足夠目前只有一個大項例如說這個屬於像這樣的族群可能是未婦不負責但是我們是覺得是說因為要修一個法要花很多的時間那我們希望在今年就有一個操作的一個機會所以意思是說你今年政策會有\n\n07:07.604 --> 07:32.320\n這樣的相關的提出嗎就是執行上我們就會拿今年的這個夏天的熱來當成說我們哪裡有缺點能夠來改進可以實際上可以運作的空間因為法歸法執行歸執行對部長延續你剛剛這些回應我因為我過去事實上是一個社會福利的工作者要聚焦到一個非常現實的問題就是補助資源的一個問題\n\n07:34.485 --> 08:01.284\n因為剛剛前面就講了低收中低收就是經濟弱勢所以整個社會體系跟我們的氣候政策雙方都彼此事實上是認識不足的所以有社工的學者指出說台灣社會對貧窮的想像不能還停留在十一住行的匱乏實際上能源貧窮跟高溫的威脅早已經事實上是經濟弱勢家庭每天的生存危機所以台\n\n08:01.904 --> 08:30.530\n大風險中心最新的研究發現說台灣有55%的弱勢家庭他們能源支出超過收入的10%甚至到30%那他就已經經濟弱勢可是這個支出又佔了他佔比將近到三分之一所以他完全事實上是能源貧窮的族群更慘的是政府的氣候變遷支援弱勢族群事實上是用不到了譬如政府推我們的所謂的能源\n\n08:31.190 --> 08:56.425\n家電的補助22%以上弱勢家庭因為付不起致富額他根本也用不到那根本就沒有辦法說我要來太舊換新把那個耗電的冷氣換掉更沒辦法所以他們來白天呢住在比較室溫超過35度的房間裡面只能用越吹越貴的破冷氣來陷入惡性循環所以部長針對於能源\n\n08:57.846 --> 09:26.078\n貧窮的這個議題你到底現在目前有對策嗎因為這個我們過去政府的補助節能家電只有例如說3000塊跟2000塊通過5000塊的確是沒有針對這個弱勢的族群來做這些事啦那我想我會在我們那個高溫的平台裡面跟個跨部因為那個是跨部會的我們會來討論是希望部長可能趕快提出來因為我詢問了一些兒燒安置機構就育幼院俗稱我們過去育幼院多數都不知道你的有能源補助喔\n\n09:26.838 --> 09:45.572\n知道的也反映說因為規則太僵硬因為一個20個孩子你只補助兩胎可是根本就不了解育幼院的生態他們小家小家住為了讓他們有家的感覺小家小家住所以你只因為因應孩子的多寡而去補助這樣的話\n\n09:46.292 --> 09:48.073\n根本就是不太了解社福機構的常態\n\n10:16.613 --> 10:37.033\n支援能源政策包委我們大概是五月底聯盟會成立現在已經開過會了那我答應委員這個部分我會特別找相關的部會來討論如何解決這個問題因為這個的確有些地方是設空調中心你可以到那個地方去布但是這個是最簡單的做法\n\n10:37.193 --> 10:46.385\n我們可不可以接近於我們比較鄰近的國家所以他們也是跟我們一樣所以台灣在極端的高溫下對於受弱勢的保護政策\n\n10:47.659 --> 11:07.996\n一下人家日韓到底怎麼做啦所以提出三點的意見跟部長來做交換意見韓國從中央層級的推動在全國建置超過五萬處的避暑中心那包含跟商店合作友善標章你剛才也提到說台灣也嘗試要這樣做那可不可以更擴大\n\n11:08.897 --> 11:21.104\n遇到高溫預警的主動開放並以公開線上地圖讓民眾方便查詢來做使用日本也在地方設置了我們的暑熱避難的設施提供基礎的標準的設備\n\n11:24.198 --> 11:51.837\n像比如說要有冷氣要有飲水還有一些休息的空間可是反觀台灣有類似這樣子制度可是地方落實狀況相差非常的大有些避暑空間設施標準事實上是參差不齊的所以想問部長說如何你評估台灣現在的避暑空間的落實效益是什麼是不是有效能夠協助到無家者或者是高溫預警下的有需要的民眾\n\n11:52.819 --> 12:20.189\n包委員其實我的了解是還不真的很不夠啦所以委員像這個就是我自己很想要做的目標我會我會照委員建議來進行希望你可能要趕快做再來就政府對高溫預警的通知必須要在制度上規劃轉換成有效的社福行動因為日橫在高溫預警的發布後社區的社工和村里長長照的人員都會啟動列管個案主動去探訪跟聯繫提醒\n\n12:22.191 --> 12:44.687\n這個我覺得你跟衛福部一定要能夠兩方可以去合作否則的話你這邊要做可是他們會去接觸到個案可是個案那邊他們沒有去做這樣的方式來建立基礎的社工跟社福相關有清楚的氣候預警的功能角色我覺得可能要由環境部來召開最後就是資源能源補助是不是符合這些弱勢族群的需求所以韓國把\n\n12:46.048 --> 13:07.942\n我們的溫度貧窮議題串聯我們的社工社政法規直接對準對象發所謂的能源券讓低收入戶寄養家庭不用過度擔心能源的費用我們還要考慮到寄養家庭他在照顧別人的小孩照顧我們沒辦法回到家庭的那個小孩\n\n13:08.542 --> 13:35.022\n所以日本就透過一些電費的補助來讓經濟弱勢不會有顧慮所以我覺得台灣可能要去考慮所以我想問部長是不是在能源補助政策之外研擬相關的能夠讓他們使用到這樣子的資源的支持最後就還是期待是不是建立法定的環境部跟我們的衛福部的一些合作機制還有有一些應對能源政策的\n\n13:35.662 --> 13:59.404\n補助貧窮然後能夠讓社福機構能夠到位所以是不是在兩週內可以告訴我們你大家要怎麼去做好委員因為我們應該是五月下旬才會正式宣布啦那可不可以給我們一個月的時間那委員的建議我們會好再麻煩因為你的建議非常好因為社福機構很多時候是靠募款的如果很多大部分的錢那又要用在這\n\n14:00.184 --> 14:06.409\n那他們可能用在孩子身上的地方就會變少我們到時候聯盟成立也希望委員可以給我們指導一下高溫已經是個很重要的議題了\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.851,"end":2.072,"text":"我們今天來討論一下你的如何因應在庫下昨天還蠻熱的 牢籠底的社福議題"},{"start":27.239,"end":47.018,"text":"那部長在氣候變遷因應法2023年修正上路的時候明確要求政府在氣候調適中要強化脆弱群體因應我們的氣候變遷衝擊的能力這是法律定下來的不是可以模糊掉的責任"},{"start":47.498,"end":65.224,"text":"我知道近期你帶來找衛福部有去推動抗高溫對策聯盟辦過我們的高溫調適研討會也強調整個部會整合其他部會這是我覺得給你高度肯定但是我們回頭檢視112年到115年的國家氣候變遷調適行動計畫"},{"start":71.046,"end":88.479,"text":"五百多頁裡邊衛福部只佔了零星幾頁角色非常的邊緣化參與模式也停留在平台討論還有一場場的研討會而已想問部長你們討論中所理解的弱勢族群有哪些"},{"start":89.569,"end":113.426,"text":"弱勢族群主要是針對例如說低收入者然後還有一個高年齡年長者還有一個小朋友這個是氣候變遷是屬於最弱勢的所以你就講老人啊兒少嘛所以部長你自己也說過你在2024年8月7號的時候也提過是說氣候調適不好做需要各部會一起來不是你單一個環境部"},{"start":113.986,"end":130.826,"text":"那不要像過去各自為政但我想問的是有沒有明確的法源依據的那個分工因為你剛剛提到這些老人也好兒少也好甚至孕婦也好這些弱勢族群的身心狀態這樣靠一個平台會議來協調保障會足夠嗎"},{"start":134.389,"end":161.292,"text":"包委員因為我們的調適就是說其實過去有很多的計畫在做每個部會都大概都有可是我的觀察其實每個部會的計畫就是擺在暑假上沒有辦法落地那現在我們就舉一個像高溫高溫是國人最有感的我們就希望說在那個把各個部會都找來我不要給大家買很大的壓力那錢都是自己大家的錢我們來針對例如說今年的暑假的高溫"},{"start":161.952,"end":188.258,"text":"我們怎麼去做準備有一個可以操作的模式找出來因為我們要落地型的不要講理論型的這個是我們希望有一個目標可是政府以前常常都跟我們講依法行政所以我想問部長我們的棄後法的第八條我們調適事項為什麼沒有特別提到衛福部這是制度設計的缺肉嗎還是環境部認為衛福部在弱勢族群上的保護上沒有這麼關鍵"},{"start":190.932,"end":208.664,"text":"跟委員報告因為氣候變遷因應法它是規範整個調試的主要的計畫的主辦所以由國發會跟環境部來共同主辦那當然每一個部會都有調試需要辦理的工作所以就會在國家調試氣候變遷調試計畫底下去做分工"},{"start":209.847,"end":231.042,"text":"所以因為我剛剛想說你們500多頁的報告裡邊真的衛福部真的非常的擔保可是我們看到就極端的氣候已經成常態了像今年夏天還沒開始上週部分地區都超過36度我們夏天越來越長那根據衛福部的統計呢在2023年6月8號跟2024年的6月8號這個同期去比較成長了七成"},{"start":237.306,"end":264.389,"text":"已經到達了2600多人也就是說這樣子的一個就診人數因為熱而就診人數至少是提高的那因為老人跟慢性疾病患者在庫下當中死亡的風險明顯也是比一般人高的可是今天我要強調的是面對我們的極端氣候最脆弱的不是剛才部長提的所謂的只有老人幼兒而已甚至慢性疾病"},{"start":265.029,"end":274.615,"text":"要被關注以外我們還有一個叫做社會福利的弱勢的一個禁慾的族群就像你剛剛講的你有特別提到低收入戶那個經濟弱勢的確我們從民間在服務的經驗裡面像萬華"},{"start":280.578,"end":298.499,"text":"士林那邊經濟弱勢租戶多住在老舊還有違建通風不良的房屋裡面陷入一個越窮越熱越熱越窮的二線循環另外一個就是無家者像萬華地區那邊"},{"start":299.804,"end":319.067,"text":"夏天白天都頂著高溫在打零工可是晚上要住公園也是熱得難以沉眠那在處理他們的這相關的協會都會反映說夏日食物腐敗中暑的這些問題都很嚴重那沒有地方可以避暑"},{"start":319.963,"end":345.341,"text":"那我們自己在看一些研究也發現每多高溫一度那相關人際暴力行為就增加約大4到6%也會高比例的觸發精神疾病高溫對於高風險家庭也是一個潛在的危險因子所以部長從環境部的角度我剛剛提的這些狀況是不是也是你氣候調適的一個重要議題"},{"start":346.701,"end":373.797,"text":"對是的委員其實第一個是說我們那個平台會把這個委員提到的項目我會特別交代把它納進來如何幫忙那我們過去有一個想法就是說例如說我們把可以有空調公共空調的地方讓公開讓大家知道他可以去但是可能晚上可能就沒有辦法所以我們會來好好來討論如何委員說的如果酷暑的時候這種所謂的弱勢族群該怎麼辦對部長所以我覺得除了我們剛剛"},{"start":375.694,"end":403.624,"text":"你剛剛提到 我覺得我們比較時常關心的生理弱勢族群 像老人幼兒甚至孕婦環境部也比較看起來 剛剛聽起來也是比較重視這一些所以要請部長我剛剛簡報當中從社福機構盤點出來經濟弱勢無家者 社福機構像安置機構 長照機構 高風險家庭甚至有身心障礙的罕見疾病未來環境部準備要如何有效的去跟我們的社政系統對接"},{"start":405.084,"end":426.469,"text":"主動提供資源來保護這些風險中的弱勢所以我先問你法規的支持是否足夠目前只有一個大項例如說這個屬於像這樣的族群可能是未婦不負責但是我們是覺得是說因為要修一個法要花很多的時間那我們希望在今年就有一個操作的一個機會所以意思是說你今年政策會有"},{"start":427.604,"end":452.32,"text":"這樣的相關的提出嗎就是執行上我們就會拿今年的這個夏天的熱來當成說我們哪裡有缺點能夠來改進可以實際上可以運作的空間因為法歸法執行歸執行對部長延續你剛剛這些回應我因為我過去事實上是一個社會福利的工作者要聚焦到一個非常現實的問題就是補助資源的一個問題"},{"start":454.485,"end":481.284,"text":"因為剛剛前面就講了低收中低收就是經濟弱勢所以整個社會體系跟我們的氣候政策雙方都彼此事實上是認識不足的所以有社工的學者指出說台灣社會對貧窮的想像不能還停留在十一住行的匱乏實際上能源貧窮跟高溫的威脅早已經事實上是經濟弱勢家庭每天的生存危機所以台"},{"start":481.904,"end":510.53,"text":"大風險中心最新的研究發現說台灣有55%的弱勢家庭他們能源支出超過收入的10%甚至到30%那他就已經經濟弱勢可是這個支出又佔了他佔比將近到三分之一所以他完全事實上是能源貧窮的族群更慘的是政府的氣候變遷支援弱勢族群事實上是用不到了譬如政府推我們的所謂的能源"},{"start":511.19,"end":536.425,"text":"家電的補助22%以上弱勢家庭因為付不起致富額他根本也用不到那根本就沒有辦法說我要來太舊換新把那個耗電的冷氣換掉更沒辦法所以他們來白天呢住在比較室溫超過35度的房間裡面只能用越吹越貴的破冷氣來陷入惡性循環所以部長針對於能源"},{"start":537.846,"end":566.078,"text":"貧窮的這個議題你到底現在目前有對策嗎因為這個我們過去政府的補助節能家電只有例如說3000塊跟2000塊通過5000塊的確是沒有針對這個弱勢的族群來做這些事啦那我想我會在我們那個高溫的平台裡面跟個跨部因為那個是跨部會的我們會來討論是希望部長可能趕快提出來因為我詢問了一些兒燒安置機構就育幼院俗稱我們過去育幼院多數都不知道你的有能源補助喔"},{"start":566.838,"end":585.572,"text":"知道的也反映說因為規則太僵硬因為一個20個孩子你只補助兩胎可是根本就不了解育幼院的生態他們小家小家住為了讓他們有家的感覺小家小家住所以你只因為因應孩子的多寡而去補助這樣的話"},{"start":586.292,"end":588.073,"text":"根本就是不太了解社福機構的常態"},{"start":616.613,"end":637.033,"text":"支援能源政策包委我們大概是五月底聯盟會成立現在已經開過會了那我答應委員這個部分我會特別找相關的部會來討論如何解決這個問題因為這個的確有些地方是設空調中心你可以到那個地方去布但是這個是最簡單的做法"},{"start":637.193,"end":646.385,"text":"我們可不可以接近於我們比較鄰近的國家所以他們也是跟我們一樣所以台灣在極端的高溫下對於受弱勢的保護政策"},{"start":647.659,"end":667.996,"text":"一下人家日韓到底怎麼做啦所以提出三點的意見跟部長來做交換意見韓國從中央層級的推動在全國建置超過五萬處的避暑中心那包含跟商店合作友善標章你剛才也提到說台灣也嘗試要這樣做那可不可以更擴大"},{"start":668.897,"end":681.104,"text":"遇到高溫預警的主動開放並以公開線上地圖讓民眾方便查詢來做使用日本也在地方設置了我們的暑熱避難的設施提供基礎的標準的設備"},{"start":684.198,"end":711.837,"text":"像比如說要有冷氣要有飲水還有一些休息的空間可是反觀台灣有類似這樣子制度可是地方落實狀況相差非常的大有些避暑空間設施標準事實上是參差不齊的所以想問部長說如何你評估台灣現在的避暑空間的落實效益是什麼是不是有效能夠協助到無家者或者是高溫預警下的有需要的民眾"},{"start":712.819,"end":740.189,"text":"包委員其實我的了解是還不真的很不夠啦所以委員像這個就是我自己很想要做的目標我會我會照委員建議來進行希望你可能要趕快做再來就政府對高溫預警的通知必須要在制度上規劃轉換成有效的社福行動因為日橫在高溫預警的發布後社區的社工和村里長長照的人員都會啟動列管個案主動去探訪跟聯繫提醒"},{"start":742.191,"end":764.687,"text":"這個我覺得你跟衛福部一定要能夠兩方可以去合作否則的話你這邊要做可是他們會去接觸到個案可是個案那邊他們沒有去做這樣的方式來建立基礎的社工跟社福相關有清楚的氣候預警的功能角色我覺得可能要由環境部來召開最後就是資源能源補助是不是符合這些弱勢族群的需求所以韓國把"},{"start":766.048,"end":787.942,"text":"我們的溫度貧窮議題串聯我們的社工 社政法規直接對準對象發所謂的能源券讓低收入戶寄養家庭不用過度擔心能源的費用我們還要考慮到寄養家庭他在照顧別人的小孩照顧我們沒辦法回到家庭的那個小孩"},{"start":788.542,"end":815.022,"text":"所以日本就透過一些電費的補助來讓經濟弱勢不會有顧慮所以我覺得台灣可能要去考慮所以我想問部長是不是在能源補助政策之外研擬相關的能夠讓他們使用到這樣子的資源的支持最後就還是期待是不是建立法定的環境部跟我們的衛福部的一些合作機制還有有一些應對能源政策的"},{"start":815.662,"end":839.404,"text":"補助貧窮然後能夠讓社福機構能夠到位所以是不是在兩週內可以告訴我們你大家要怎麼去做好委員因為我們應該是五月下旬才會正式宣布啦那可不可以給我們一個月的時間那委員的建議我們會好再麻煩因為你的建議非常好因為社福機構很多時候是靠募款的如果很多大部分的錢那又要用在這"},{"start":840.184,"end":846.409,"text":"那他們可能用在孩子身上的地方就會變少我們到時候聯盟成立也希望委員可以給我們指導一下高溫已經是個很重要的議題了"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":634,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時38分）謝謝主席，麻煩彭部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。部長，我們今天來討論一下，如何回應在酷暑牢籠裡的社福弱勢族群需求的議題。昨天還蠻熱的，在氣候變遷因應法2023年修正上路的時候明確要求，政府在氣候調適中要強化脆弱群體因應氣候變遷衝擊的能力，這是法律定下來的，不是可以模糊掉的責任。我知道近期你也找衛福部去推動抗高溫對策聯盟，辦過高溫調適研討會，也強調要整合其他部會，我給你高度肯定。但是我們回頭檢視112年到115年的國家氣候變遷調適行動計畫，五百多頁裡衛福部只占了零星幾頁，角色非常的邊緣化，參與模式也停留在平臺討論以及一場場的研討會而已。想問部長，你們討論中所理解的弱勢族群有哪些？"],["彭部長啓明：弱勢族群主要是針對低收入者、年長者以及小朋友，這些是氣候變遷最弱勢的族群。"],["林委員月琴：所以就是老人、兒少，部長，你在2024年8月7日的時候也提過，氣候調適不好做，需要各部會一起來，不是你單一個環境部就可以，不要像過去各自為政。但我想問的是，有沒有明確的法源依據的分工？因為你剛剛提到，這些老人也好、兒少也好，甚至孕婦也好，這些弱勢族群的身心狀態單靠一個平臺會議來協調保障會足夠嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，關於我們的調適，其實過去有很多計畫在做，每個部會大概都有，可是就我的觀察，每個部會的計畫就是擺在書架上，沒有辦法落地。我就舉高溫為例，高溫是國人最有感的，我們希望把各個部會都找來，我不要給每個部會很大的壓力，錢都是大家自己的錢，我們針對例如今年暑假的高溫怎麼準備，找出一些可以操作的模式，因為我們要落地型的，不要講理論型的，這個是我們希望的目標。"],["林委員月琴：可是政府以前常常都跟我們說要依法行政，所以我想問部長，氣候法第八條中的調適事項為什麼沒有特別提到衛福部？這是制度設計的缺漏嗎？還是環境部認為衛福部在弱勢族群的保護上沒有這麼關鍵？"],["彭部長啓明：這部分請署長回復。"],["蔡署長玲儀：跟委員報告，因為氣候變遷因應法是規範整個調適主要計畫的主辦，所以是由國發會跟環境部共同主辦，當然每一個部會都有調適需要辦理的工作，所以就會在國家氣候變遷調適計畫底下分工。"],["林委員月琴：我剛剛說在你們五百多頁的報告裡面，衛福部真的非常的單薄，可是我們看到極端氣候已經成為常態，像今年夏天還沒開始，上週部分地區都超過36度，我們夏天越來越長。根據衛福部的統計，2023年6月8日與2024年6月8日同期相比已成長了七成，已經到達了兩千六百多人，也就是說，因為熱而就診的人數事實上是提高的。嬰幼、老人跟慢性疾病患者在酷夏當中死亡的風險也是明顯比一般人高的。","可是今天我要強調的是，面對極端氣候最脆弱的，除了剛才部長提到的老人、幼兒，甚至慢性疾病患者要被關注以外，我們還有一個叫做社會福利弱勢境遇的族群，就像你剛剛講的，你有特別提到低收入戶、經濟弱勢，的確，我們從民間服務的經驗裡面，像萬華、士林那邊，經濟弱勢租戶多住在老舊、違建及通風不良的房屋裡面，陷入一個越窮越熱、越熱越窮的惡性循環。另外一個就是無家者，像萬華地區，他們夏天白天都頂著高溫在打零工，可是晚上要住公園，也是熱得難以成眠。在處理他們的相關協會都會反映，夏日食物腐敗、中暑的問題都很嚴重，沒有地方可以避暑。我們自己在看一些研究時也發現，高溫每多1度，相關人際暴力行為就增加約4%到6%，也會高比例的觸發精神疾病，高溫對於高風險家庭也是一個潛在的危險因子。所以部長從環境部的角度，我剛剛提的這些狀況，是不是也是你氣候調適的一個重要議題？"],["彭部長啓明：是的，其實第一個，我會特別交代把委員提到的項目納進來我們的平臺，看要如何幫忙，我們過去有一個想法是，例如說，我們把可以有公共空調的地方公開讓大家知道，他可以去，但是晚上可能就沒有辦法，所以我們會好好來討論，如何像委員說的，酷暑的時候，所謂的弱勢族群該怎麼辦？"],["林委員月琴：對，部長，我覺得除了你剛剛提到的我們時常關心的生理弱勢族群，像老人、幼兒，甚至孕婦外，剛剛聽起來環境部也是比較重視這一些，我剛剛簡報當中有從社福機構盤點出來，包括經濟弱勢、無家者、社福機構（像安置機構、長照機構）、高風險家庭，甚至有身心障礙、罕見疾病的，未來環境部準備如何有效的去跟社政系統對接，主動提供資源，來保護這些風險中的弱勢？所以我先問你，法規的支持是否足夠？"],["彭部長啓明：目前只有一個大項，例如說，像這樣的族群可能是衛福部負責，但是我們覺得因為修一個法要花很多時間，我們希望在今年就有一個操作的機會。"],["林委員月琴：所以意思是，你們今年會提出這樣相關的政策嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：就是執行上，我們就會拿今年夏天的熱來當成我們哪裡有缺點能夠來改進，實際上可以運作的空間，因為法歸法、執行歸執行。"],["林委員月琴：對，部長，延續你剛剛這些回應，因為我過去是一個社會福利工作者，所以要聚焦到一個非常現實的問題，就是補助資源的問題。剛剛前面就講了，中低收就是經濟弱勢。所以事實上整個社福體系跟氣候政策雙方都彼此認識不足，有社工的學者就指出，臺灣社會對貧窮的想像不能還停留在食衣住行的匱乏，實際上能源貧窮跟高溫的威脅早已是經濟弱勢家庭每天的生存危機。臺大風險中心最新的研究發現，臺灣有55%的弱勢家庭能源支出超過收入的10%，甚至到30%，他就已經是經濟弱勢了，可是這個支出又占了他將近三分之一，所以他完全是能源貧窮的族群。更慘的是，政府的氣候政策資源，弱勢族群事實上是用不到的，譬如說，政府推所謂的節能家電補助，22%以上的弱勢家庭因為付不起自付額，他根本也用不到，因為他根本就沒有辦法來汰舊換新，把耗電的冷氣換掉，根本沒辦法！所以他們白天住在室溫超過35度的房間裡面，只能吹那台越吹越貴的破冷氣，陷入惡性循環。所以部長，針對於能源貧窮的議題，你目前有對策嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為過去政府補助節能家電只有補助3,000塊跟退稅2,000塊，合計5,000塊，的確是沒有針對弱勢族群來做這些事，我想我會在我們那個高溫的平臺裡面，因為那個是跨部會的，我們會來討論……"],["林委員月琴：是，希望部長趕快提出來，因為我詢問了一些兒少安置機構，就是過去俗稱的育幼院，多數都不知道有能源補助，知道的也反映說規則太僵硬，20個孩子只補助2台，你們根本就不了解育幼院的生態，為了讓他們有家的感覺，他們是小家、小家住，所以如果只因應孩子的多寡而去補助的話，根本就是不太了解社福機構的常態。","所以部長，如果社福夥伴要靠自己來應對高溫，而氣候政策又沒有辦法有效的把社福體系納入的話，那也只是有補助但不適合社福實際的需求。所以我想問環境部到底打算怎麼做？如何符合社福體系？我們剛剛講的是有一些生理需求的，可是我現在回到社福體系的話，你要怎麼提供他們比較需要的資源及能源政策？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們大概5月底聯盟會成立，現在已經開過會了，我答應委員，我會特別找相關部會來討論如何解決這個問題，因為的確有些地方是設空調中心，你可以到那個地方去，但是這個是最簡單的做法。"],["林委員月琴：我們可不可以借鏡我們比較鄰近的國家？他們也是跟我們一樣，臺灣在極端的高溫下，對於社福弱勢的保護政策，我們看一下日韓到底怎麼做，本席提出三點來跟部長交換意見，韓國從中央層級推動，在全國建置超過5萬處的避暑中心，包含跟商店合作友善標章，你剛才提到臺灣也嘗試要這樣做，可不可以更擴大？遇到高溫預警主動開放並公開線上地圖，讓民眾方便查詢、使用。日本也在地方設置了暑熱避難設施，提供基礎的、標準的設備，譬如要有冷氣、要有飲水，還有一些休憩的空間。反觀臺灣有類似這樣的制度，可是地方落實的狀況相差非常大，事實上，有些避暑空間的設施標準是參差不齊的，所以想問部長，你評估臺灣現在避暑空間落實的效益是什麼？是不是能夠有效協助到無家者或者高溫預警下有需要的民眾？"],["彭部長啓明：其實我的了解是真的很不夠，所以像這個就是我自己很想要做的目標，我會照委員的建議來進行。"],["林委員月琴：希望，你可能要趕快做。再來就是政府對高溫預警的通知，必須要在從制度上規劃轉換成有效的社福行動。日、韓在高溫預警發布後，社區的社工和村里長、長照人員都會啟動列管個案，主動探訪跟聯繫、提醒，我覺得你們跟衛福部兩方一定要能夠合作，否則你這邊要做，可是他們會接觸到個案，卻沒有做這樣的訪視。建立基礎的社工跟社福相關有清楚的氣候預警功能角色，我覺得可能要由環境部來召開會議。","最後，能源補助是不是符合這些弱勢族群的需求？韓國把溫度貧窮議題串聯社工、社政法規，直接對準對象發所謂的能源券，讓低收入戶、寄養家庭不用過度擔心能源的費用。我們還要考慮到寄養家庭，他在照顧別人的小孩、照顧沒辦法回到家庭的小孩，像日本就透過一些電費的補助讓經濟弱勢不會有顧慮，所以我覺得臺灣可能要去考慮。我想問部長，在能源補助政策之外，是不是也能夠研擬相關的支持措施，讓他們使用到這樣的資源？"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["林委員月琴：最後還是期待，環境部跟衛福部是不是可以建立一些法定的合作機制，還有一些應對的能源政策補助貧窮，讓社福機構能夠到位？是不是可以在兩週內告訴我們，你們大概要怎麼去做？"],["彭部長啓明：我們應該是5月下旬才會正式宣布，可不可以給我們一個月的時間？我們會遵照委員的建議來……"],["林委員月琴：好，再麻煩。"],["彭部長啓明：因為你的建議非常好。"],["林委員月琴：因為社福機構有很多事是靠募款的，如果大部分的錢要用在這，他們可能用在孩子身上的就會變少。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員，一個月……"],["主席：你們評估現況需求……"],["彭部長啓明：到時候聯盟成立，也希望委員可以給我們指導一下。"],["林委員月琴：好，再麻煩，高溫已經是個很重要的議題了，謝謝。"],["主席：衛福部要做相關的調整。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請邱鎮軍委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-8","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","牛煦庭","林淑芬","葉元之","王正旭","劉書彬","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃秀芳","楊曜","陳瑩","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-04-28"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00003"}}}