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448.26, \"end\": 448.36, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 448.36, \"end\": 448.38, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 448.38, \"end\": 448.4, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 448.4, \"end\": 448.42, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 448.42, \"end\": 448.52, \"score\": 0.436}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.52, \"end\": 448.82, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"督\", \"start\": 448.82, \"end\": 449.041, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 449.041, \"end\": 449.081, \"score\": 0.063}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 449.081, \"end\": 449.181, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 449.181, \"end\": 449.201, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 449.201, \"end\": 449.241, \"score\": 0.482}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 449.241, \"end\": 449.301, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 449.301, \"end\": 449.321, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"底\", 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{\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 486.3, \"end\": 486.9, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 486.9, \"end\": 487.02, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 487.02, \"end\": 487.14, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 487.14, \"end\": 487.28, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 487.28, \"end\": 487.4, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 487.4, \"end\": 487.52, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 487.52, \"end\": 487.66, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 487.66, \"end\": 487.98, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 487.98, \"end\": 488.14, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 488.14, \"end\": 488.48, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 488.48, \"end\": 488.961, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 488.961, \"end\": 489.341, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": 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\"start\": 608.524, \"end\": 608.544, \"score\": 0.119}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,616 --> 00:00:07,096\n謝謝主席我們是不是有請彭部長王委員早部長早部長這個發生在前任署長任內的這個很嚴重的性騷甚至是性侵的事件我覺得這個事件應該是整個環境部要痛定思痛好好的檢討這個事件我看出了兩個很大的問題第一個就是原來\n\n2\n00:00:33,121 --> 00:00:45,993\n環境部裡面設置的申訴的機制通通都失靈包括這個部長的信箱還有就是像部長信箱去投訴之後只有說感謝來信指教然後呢這一個環管所這個上課這個學員\n\n3\n00:00:51,417 --> 00:01:13,430\n已經在教學評量表裡面去反映了結果也沒有向上通報所以原來它存在的這個機制裡面是嚴重的失靈第二個就是刻意的包庇這個是讓我覺得很不可思議特別是這個在監察院的報告裡面特別指出來當時的環保署的署長\n\n4\n00:01:16,932 --> 00:01:29,248\n他在批示公文的過程當中他竟然有看到然後說沒有不妥那這個之前的前立委他在指出這個弊案的時候他其實也直指當時的環保署署長有刻意包庇之嫌那這個\n\n5\n00:01:34,975 --> 00:01:45,403\n涉案人加害人李建鈺他現在是被台中地檢其實是羈押進鑑因為有發現新的事實他不只是性騷這當中可能還涉及到強制性侵的問題那事實上是非常嚴重的但是我覺得非常遺憾在當時的第一時間因為整個申訴機制的失靈還有加上這個刻意的包庇所以讓這個事件沒有在第一時間發生的時候就立刻採取行動然後\n\n6\n00:02:04,677 --> 00:02:11,645\n把這一個加害人就是直接解雇掉離他的職務反而讓他還繼續在那個職務上面那這件事情我想問一下部長我知道這個不是你任內發生那你現在發現這樣的情況的話我要問你的是第一個\n\n7\n00:02:23,297 --> 00:02:52,416\n你怎麼樣確保未來環境部的這個申訴的機制不會有吃案不會有失靈的情況這個部分你現在有做什麼改善嗎好報告委員第一個我上任之後就跟同仁說姓邵是零容忍當然現在又加上霸凌那這個兩個都是零容忍但是我們而且呢有一套的完整的程序在處理那我也加強性平的一個教育那也跟委員報告李建鈺先生為他被收押其實是本部的系統我們有一些\n\n8\n00:02:53,377 --> 00:03:17,409\n被他曾經這個性騷的女同仁透過我們的系統希望能夠提告那我們就透過我們的系統鼓勵他們那我也不知道同事是誰那就進到提告系統之後才有到這個台中地檢人署把他說要進鑑所以那個是我們的系統的一個機制讓同仁相信我們這個體系不會吃案當然我必須說公務單位要完全透明\n\n9\n00:03:18,149 --> 00:03:31,468\n要時間我就盡量把陽光可以進來那我們對於當時失職的同仁就是同仁也找外部的專家重新再做一個考量名單也送到監察院去了所以我們就照規定來進行那這個就會讓同仁會應該對我們的體系會更信賴\n\n10\n00:03:35,893 --> 00:04:02,429\n那你現在的部長信箱裡面因為過去也發生這個署長信箱檢舉只有就是感謝來信指教這完全沒有受理就是忽視這一類的案件那未來像你這個部長信箱如果類似這樣的一個案件無論是性騷或者是霸凌的案件你到這個你現在你的部長信箱有專人好好的管理嗎就是你怎麼一個重視的情況報告委員\n\n11\n00:04:03,289 --> 00:04:27,961\n我們對內有一個我個人的信箱那我親自看整個布局我還可以看得到我個人的信箱那我收到之後我會去處理那還有一個公開的所長信箱那那個所長信箱就有一定的機制那我也要求他們定期也要跟我匯報那我未來應該我也可以直接看得到他們通常都是定期在我們部務會議會跟我報告大概有幾個陳情或什麼樣的事件是\n\n12\n00:04:28,661 --> 00:04:44,648\n好那我希望這樣的一個透過你們內部的一個積極改善這樣的情況無論是性騷甚至很嚴重的性侵不可以在這個環境部將來還有類似這樣被吃案的情況第二個我覺得應該要追究的是當時的這個署長他的責任如果當時的署長他是知情\n\n13\n00:04:51,171 --> 00:04:56,436\n還刻意去包庇然後沒有做任何的處理我們知道這個張子敬署長他後來還高升了政務委員這個事件發生之後他其實還高升了那這件事情其實應該還是要有一個究責跟檢討\n\n14\n00:05:08,507 --> 00:05:29,143\n那目前現在監察院他都只針對這個當事人李建鈺但是當時的這個署長呢我不知道你現在掌握到的資料你們內部同仁給你的資料當時的署長到底是知情還是不知情因為連公文裡面他好像都有看過啦他怎麼會是不知情呢你們現在掌握到的訊息是什麼\n\n15\n00:05:29,523 --> 00:05:54,145\n包委員那個監察院他有一定的報告而且他的確有針對前署長他的有哪一些不周疏失有做出檢討那我就不能用我的角度來評斷那檢討這件事情呢我後來就請了外部委員總共有五個委員都是外部的跟我們無關的那重新來檢視當時的行政的機制那他們其實也建議了提出了這個懲處名單\n\n16\n00:05:55,946 --> 00:06:20,153\n那當然啦懲處有兩種一個是有的人留在部內那我們可以做那有的已經離開了那我們就會請他現在的單位去做處理那因為有的官階比較高他是政務官那這個呢就要報請行政院來處理所以當時最後出來的結果的確有很高的那我的確是也跟卓院長報告那卓院長也鼓勵我就是公開事實就是事實所以我們就也這樣還付這個監察院來進行處理\n\n17\n00:06:22,694 --> 00:06:43,970\n所以你們就已請監察院處理了嗎已經有回覆這個監察院正式來處理好這個本席非常贊成這樣的處理模式該究責就應該要究責因為就像你講的這種性騷甚至已經涉及到性騙這絕對是零容忍那如果作為首長竟然還包庇的話那這更的是助長這樣的一個犯罪這個絕對是\n\n18\n00:06:45,652 --> 00:06:51,139\n沒有辦法接受的事情好那這一個部分呢就謝謝我們部長的處理接下來我要問你的是關於你們現在的監理你今天報告裡面特別提到廢清法將來還要再修法那跟廢清法有關的現在我們看到的一些大量的廢棄物\n\n19\n00:07:03,775 --> 00:07:16,009\n他還是去找一些場地像這個新竹球場他這個大祕寶挖出大量的廢棄物那顯然他就是沒有走你們現在正常的程序就是申報如實的申報所以還是採這樣違法的清道最近這個桃園的社宅也被發現\n\n20\n00:07:22,055 --> 00:07:29,581\n他的那個基地裡面開挖出來也是大量的這種廢棄物我要問的就是部長在這一個部分的監管跟監理我覺得還是有很大的改善的空間那你今天的報告也特別提到說未來的廢清法就是你要去加重這樣相關的這個罰則除了這個之外在管理的監督的機制上面你們到底還可以怎麼做\n\n21\n00:07:48,015 --> 00:08:10,121\n好,報告委員喔,這件事情就是涉及營建土石房跟營建廢棄物那我看這個新竹的球場應該是營建廢棄物啦那目前呢,其實因為過去長期幾十年來就是內政部跟環境部都有一些,中間有一些灰色地帶然後跟地方政府之間的協調,所以包含他的整個管理機制的確是不完善的\n\n22\n00:08:10,501 --> 00:08:32,992\n所以其實我們住戶區這幾個月也跟跨部會甚至跟地方政府在協調當中很快的大概應該近期就會對外有一個平台的機制然後管理的機制或是電子圍籬的機制新的機制會再出來也請委員給我們一點點時間因為這個非常大的一個架構那我們當然是希望廢清法的修正可以給這個嚴懲重罰會讓它更有力道\n\n23\n00:08:35,333 --> 00:08:39,816\n因為這樣的情況我個人就看到是還蠻氾濫的非常氾濫所以這個部分我真的希望你們可以加把勁就是嚴加的查查因為像這個整個是利益業者自己拿去了但是環境的毀壞這個破壞的就是環境而且利用這樣的非法去謀業者的利益我覺得這一塊正是你們公權力應該要加大力道\n\n24\n00:09:02,913 --> 00:09:29,439\n那我很希望你說你要跟內政部合作在平台還有地方政府所以我們也都積極高跟地方政府因為有幾個縣市例如說台北新北桃園都是產出的自己縣市無法去化都移到新竹桃園去新竹苗栗去倒的所以基本上或是中部就往南部去倒的確這個去化管道不足的問題還有管理機制的問題我們現在是一個一個在釐清在克服\n\n25\n00:09:29,619 --> 00:09:50,945\n那你們大概還要多久時間?現在的確,因為這個包含委員,我來政府服務就發現說這個跨部會是最辛苦的那行政院要人出來幫你啊?有有有,這個院長都非常支持在做這個事情我們大概近期應該很快就會來對外做宣布因為這個也涉及到包含的地方,這是一個非常大的工程\n\n26\n00:09:51,525 --> 00:10:08,544\n我希望完整之後再跟委員統一的報告好我希望這一個部分加把勁這一部分的監禮我一直覺得從過去到現在事實上還是很多漏洞所以讓非法的業者就是有洞可鑽影響我們環境其實還蠻大的好不好希望繼續努力謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4616\t7096\t謝謝主席我們是不是有請彭部長王委員早部長早部長這個發生在前任署長任內的這個很嚴重的性騷甚至是性侵的事件我覺得這個事件應該是整個環境部要痛定思痛好好的檢討這個事件我看出了兩個很大的問題第一個就是原來\n33121\t45993\t環境部裡面設置的申訴的機制通通都失靈包括這個部長的信箱還有就是像部長信箱去投訴之後只有說感謝來信指教然後呢這一個環管所這個上課這個學員\n51417\t73430\t已經在教學評量表裡面去反映了結果也沒有向上通報所以原來它存在的這個機制裡面是嚴重的失靈第二個就是刻意的包庇這個是讓我覺得很不可思議特別是這個在監察院的報告裡面特別指出來當時的環保署的署長\n76932\t89248\t他在批示公文的過程當中他竟然有看到然後說沒有不妥那這個之前的前立委他在指出這個弊案的時候他其實也直指當時的環保署署長有刻意包庇之嫌那這個\n94975\t105403\t涉案人加害人李建鈺他現在是被台中地檢其實是羈押進鑑因為有發現新的事實他不只是性騷這當中可能還涉及到強制性侵的問題那事實上是非常嚴重的但是我覺得非常遺憾在當時的第一時間因為整個申訴機制的失靈還有加上這個刻意的包庇所以讓這個事件沒有在第一時間發生的時候就立刻採取行動然後\n124677\t131645\t把這一個加害人就是直接解雇掉離他的職務反而讓他還繼續在那個職務上面那這件事情我想問一下部長我知道這個不是你任內發生那你現在發現這樣的情況的話我要問你的是第一個\n143297\t172416\t你怎麼樣確保未來環境部的這個申訴的機制不會有吃案不會有失靈的情況這個部分你現在有做什麼改善嗎好 報告委員第一個我上任之後就跟同仁說姓邵是零容忍當然現在又加上霸凌那這個兩個都是零容忍但是我們而且呢有一套的完整的程序在處理那我也加強性平的一個教育那也跟委員報告李建鈺先生為他被收押其實是本部的系統我們有一些\n173377\t197409\t被他曾經這個性騷的女同仁透過我們的系統希望能夠提告那我們就透過我們的系統鼓勵他們那我也不知道同事是誰那就進到提告系統之後才有到這個台中地檢人署把他說要進鑑所以那個是我們的系統的一個機制讓同仁相信我們這個體系不會吃案當然我必須說公務單位要完全透明\n198149\t211468\t要時間我就盡量把陽光可以進來那我們對於當時失職的同仁就是同仁也找外部的專家重新再做一個考量名單也送到監察院去了所以我們就照規定來進行那這個就會讓同仁會應該對我們的體系會更信賴\n215893\t242429\t那你現在的部長信箱裡面因為過去也發生這個署長信箱檢舉只有就是感謝來信指教這完全沒有受理就是忽視這一類的案件那未來像你這個部長信箱如果類似這樣的一個案件無論是性騷或者是霸凌的案件你到這個你現在你的部長信箱有專人好好的管理嗎就是你怎麼一個重視的情況報告委員\n243289\t267961\t我們對內有一個我個人的信箱那我親自看整個布局我還可以看得到我個人的信箱那我收到之後我會去處理那還有一個公開的所長信箱那那個所長信箱就有一定的機制那我也要求他們定期也要跟我匯報那我未來應該我也可以直接看得到他們通常都是定期在我們部務會議會跟我報告大概有幾個陳情或什麼樣的事件是\n268661\t284648\t好那我希望這樣的一個透過你們內部的一個積極改善這樣的情況無論是性騷甚至很嚴重的性侵不可以在這個環境部將來還有類似這樣被吃案的情況第二個我覺得應該要追究的是當時的這個署長他的責任如果當時的署長他是知情\n291171\t296436\t還刻意去包庇然後沒有做任何的處理我們知道這個張子敬署長他後來還高升了政務委員這個事件發生之後他其實還高升了那這件事情其實應該還是要有一個究責跟檢討\n308507\t329143\t那目前現在監察院他都只針對這個當事人李建鈺但是當時的這個署長呢我不知道你現在掌握到的資料你們內部同仁給你的資料當時的署長到底是知情還是不知情因為連公文裡面他好像都有看過啦他怎麼會是不知情呢你們現在掌握到的訊息是什麼\n329523\t354145\t包委員那個監察院他有一定的報告而且他的確有針對前署長他的有哪一些不周疏失有做出檢討那我就不能用我的角度來評斷那檢討這件事情呢我後來就請了外部委員總共有五個委員都是外部的跟我們無關的那重新來檢視當時的行政的機制那他們其實也建議了提出了這個懲處名單\n355946\t380153\t那當然啦 懲處有兩種一個是有的人留在部內那我們可以做那有的已經離開了那我們就會請他現在的單位去做處理那因為有的官階比較高他是政務官那這個呢 就要報請行政院來處理所以當時最後出來的結果的確有很高的那我的確是也跟卓院長報告那卓院長也鼓勵我就是公開事實就是事實所以我們就也這樣還付這個監察院來進行處理\n382694\t403970\t所以你們就已請監察院處理了嗎已經有回覆這個監察院正式來處理好這個本席非常贊成這樣的處理模式該究責就應該要究責因為就像你講的這種性騷甚至已經涉及到性騙這絕對是零容忍那如果作為首長竟然還包庇的話那這更的是助長這樣的一個犯罪這個絕對是\n405652\t411139\t沒有辦法接受的事情好那這一個部分呢就謝謝我們部長的處理接下來我要問你的是關於你們現在的監理你今天報告裡面特別提到廢清法將來還要再修法那跟廢清法有關的現在我們看到的一些大量的廢棄物\n423775\t436009\t他還是去找一些場地像這個新竹球場他這個大祕寶挖出大量的廢棄物那顯然他就是沒有走你們現在正常的程序就是申報 如實的申報所以還是採這樣違法的清道最近這個桃園的社宅也被發現\n442055\t449581\t他的那個基地裡面開挖出來也是大量的這種廢棄物我要問的就是部長在這一個部分的監管跟監理我覺得還是有很大的改善的空間那你今天的報告也特別提到說未來的廢清法就是你要去加重這樣相關的這個罰則除了這個之外在管理的監督的機制上面你們到底還可以怎麼做\n468015\t490121\t好,報告委員喔,這件事情就是涉及營建土石房跟營建廢棄物那我看這個新竹的球場應該是營建廢棄物啦那目前呢,其實因為過去長期幾十年來就是內政部跟環境部都有一些,中間有一些灰色地帶然後跟地方政府之間的協調,所以包含他的整個管理機制的確是不完善的\n490501\t512992\t所以其實我們住戶區這幾個月也跟跨部會甚至跟地方政府在協調當中很快的大概應該近期就會對外有一個平台的機制然後管理的機制或是電子圍籬的機制新的機制會再出來也請委員給我們一點點時間因為這個非常大的一個架構那我們當然是希望廢清法的修正可以給這個嚴懲重罰會讓它更有力道\n515333\t519816\t因為這樣的情況我個人就看到是還蠻氾濫的非常氾濫所以這個部分我真的希望你們可以加把勁就是嚴加的查查因為像這個整個是利益業者自己拿去了但是環境的毀壞這個破壞的就是環境而且利用這樣的非法去謀業者的利益我覺得這一塊正是你們公權力應該要加大力道\n542913\t569439\t那我很希望你說你要跟內政部合作在平台還有地方政府所以我們也都積極高跟地方政府因為有幾個縣市例如說台北新北桃園都是產出的自己縣市無法去化都移到新竹桃園去新竹苗栗去倒的所以基本上或是中部就往南部去倒的確這個去化管道不足的問題還有管理機制的問題我們現在是一個一個在釐清在克服\n569619\t590945\t那你們大概還要多久時間?現在的確,因為這個包含委員,我來政府服務就發現說這個跨部會是最辛苦的那行政院要人出來幫你啊?有有有,這個院長都非常支持在做這個事情我們大概近期應該很快就會來對外做宣布因為這個也涉及到包含的地方,這是一個非常大的工程\n591525\t608544\t我希望完整之後再跟委員統一的報告好我希望這一個部分加把勁這一部分的監禮我一直覺得從過去到現在事實上還是很多漏洞所以讓非法的業者就是有洞可鑽影響我們環境其實還蠻大的好不好希望繼續努力謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們是不是有請彭部長王委員早部長早部長這個發生在前任署長任內的這個很嚴重的性騷甚至是性侵的事件我覺得這個事件應該是整個環境部要痛定思痛好好的檢討這個事件我看出了兩個很大的問題第一個就是原來\n環境部裡面設置的申訴的機制通通都失靈包括這個部長的信箱還有就是像部長信箱去投訴之後只有說感謝來信指教然後呢這一個環管所這個上課這個學員\n已經在教學評量表裡面去反映了結果也沒有向上通報所以原來它存在的這個機制裡面是嚴重的失靈第二個就是刻意的包庇這個是讓我覺得很不可思議特別是這個在監察院的報告裡面特別指出來當時的環保署的署長\n他在批示公文的過程當中他竟然有看到然後說沒有不妥那這個之前的前立委他在指出這個弊案的時候他其實也直指當時的環保署署長有刻意包庇之嫌那這個\n涉案人加害人李建鈺他現在是被台中地檢其實是羈押進鑑因為有發現新的事實他不只是性騷這當中可能還涉及到強制性侵的問題那事實上是非常嚴重的但是我覺得非常遺憾在當時的第一時間因為整個申訴機制的失靈還有加上這個刻意的包庇所以讓這個事件沒有在第一時間發生的時候就立刻採取行動然後\n把這一個加害人就是直接解雇掉離他的職務反而讓他還繼續在那個職務上面那這件事情我想問一下部長我知道這個不是你任內發生那你現在發現這樣的情況的話我要問你的是第一個\n你怎麼樣確保未來環境部的這個申訴的機制不會有吃案不會有失靈的情況這個部分你現在有做什麼改善嗎好 報告委員第一個我上任之後就跟同仁說姓邵是零容忍當然現在又加上霸凌那這個兩個都是零容忍但是我們而且呢有一套的完整的程序在處理那我也加強性平的一個教育那也跟委員報告李建鈺先生為他被收押其實是本部的系統我們有一些\n被他曾經這個性騷的女同仁透過我們的系統希望能夠提告那我們就透過我們的系統鼓勵他們那我也不知道同事是誰那就進到提告系統之後才有到這個台中地檢人署把他說要進鑑所以那個是我們的系統的一個機制讓同仁相信我們這個體系不會吃案當然我必須說公務單位要完全透明\n要時間我就盡量把陽光可以進來那我們對於當時失職的同仁就是同仁也找外部的專家重新再做一個考量名單也送到監察院去了所以我們就照規定來進行那這個就會讓同仁會應該對我們的體系會更信賴\n那你現在的部長信箱裡面因為過去也發生這個署長信箱檢舉只有就是感謝來信指教這完全沒有受理就是忽視這一類的案件那未來像你這個部長信箱如果類似這樣的一個案件無論是性騷或者是霸凌的案件你到這個你現在你的部長信箱有專人好好的管理嗎就是你怎麼一個重視的情況報告委員\n我們對內有一個我個人的信箱那我親自看整個布局我還可以看得到我個人的信箱那我收到之後我會去處理那還有一個公開的所長信箱那那個所長信箱就有一定的機制那我也要求他們定期也要跟我匯報那我未來應該我也可以直接看得到他們通常都是定期在我們部務會議會跟我報告大概有幾個陳情或什麼樣的事件是\n好那我希望這樣的一個透過你們內部的一個積極改善這樣的情況無論是性騷甚至很嚴重的性侵不可以在這個環境部將來還有類似這樣被吃案的情況第二個我覺得應該要追究的是當時的這個署長他的責任如果當時的署長他是知情\n還刻意去包庇然後沒有做任何的處理我們知道這個張子敬署長他後來還高升了政務委員這個事件發生之後他其實還高升了那這件事情其實應該還是要有一個究責跟檢討\n那目前現在監察院他都只針對這個當事人李建鈺但是當時的這個署長呢我不知道你現在掌握到的資料你們內部同仁給你的資料當時的署長到底是知情還是不知情因為連公文裡面他好像都有看過啦他怎麼會是不知情呢你們現在掌握到的訊息是什麼\n包委員那個監察院他有一定的報告而且他的確有針對前署長他的有哪一些不周疏失有做出檢討那我就不能用我的角度來評斷那檢討這件事情呢我後來就請了外部委員總共有五個委員都是外部的跟我們無關的那重新來檢視當時的行政的機制那他們其實也建議了提出了這個懲處名單\n那當然啦 懲處有兩種一個是有的人留在部內那我們可以做那有的已經離開了那我們就會請他現在的單位去做處理那因為有的官階比較高他是政務官那這個呢 就要報請行政院來處理所以當時最後出來的結果的確有很高的那我的確是也跟卓院長報告那卓院長也鼓勵我就是公開事實就是事實所以我們就也這樣還付這個監察院來進行處理\n所以你們就已請監察院處理了嗎已經有回覆這個監察院正式來處理好這個本席非常贊成這樣的處理模式該究責就應該要究責因為就像你講的這種性騷甚至已經涉及到性騙這絕對是零容忍那如果作為首長竟然還包庇的話那這更的是助長這樣的一個犯罪這個絕對是\n沒有辦法接受的事情好那這一個部分呢就謝謝我們部長的處理接下來我要問你的是關於你們現在的監理你今天報告裡面特別提到廢清法將來還要再修法那跟廢清法有關的現在我們看到的一些大量的廢棄物\n他還是去找一些場地像這個新竹球場他這個大祕寶挖出大量的廢棄物那顯然他就是沒有走你們現在正常的程序就是申報 如實的申報所以還是採這樣違法的清道最近這個桃園的社宅也被發現\n他的那個基地裡面開挖出來也是大量的這種廢棄物我要問的就是部長在這一個部分的監管跟監理我覺得還是有很大的改善的空間那你今天的報告也特別提到說未來的廢清法就是你要去加重這樣相關的這個罰則除了這個之外在管理的監督的機制上面你們到底還可以怎麼做\n好,報告委員喔,這件事情就是涉及營建土石房跟營建廢棄物那我看這個新竹的球場應該是營建廢棄物啦那目前呢,其實因為過去長期幾十年來就是內政部跟環境部都有一些,中間有一些灰色地帶然後跟地方政府之間的協調,所以包含他的整個管理機制的確是不完善的\n所以其實我們住戶區這幾個月也跟跨部會甚至跟地方政府在協調當中很快的大概應該近期就會對外有一個平台的機制然後管理的機制或是電子圍籬的機制新的機制會再出來也請委員給我們一點點時間因為這個非常大的一個架構那我們當然是希望廢清法的修正可以給這個嚴懲重罰會讓它更有力道\n因為這樣的情況我個人就看到是還蠻氾濫的非常氾濫所以這個部分我真的希望你們可以加把勁就是嚴加的查查因為像這個整個是利益業者自己拿去了但是環境的毀壞這個破壞的就是環境而且利用這樣的非法去謀業者的利益我覺得這一塊正是你們公權力應該要加大力道\n那我很希望你說你要跟內政部合作在平台還有地方政府所以我們也都積極高跟地方政府因為有幾個縣市例如說台北新北桃園都是產出的自己縣市無法去化都移到新竹桃園去新竹苗栗去倒的所以基本上或是中部就往南部去倒的確這個去化管道不足的問題還有管理機制的問題我們現在是一個一個在釐清在克服\n那你們大概還要多久時間?現在的確,因為這個包含委員,我來政府服務就發現說這個跨部會是最辛苦的那行政院要人出來幫你啊?有有有,這個院長都非常支持在做這個事情我們大概近期應該很快就會來對外做宣布因為這個也涉及到包含的地方,這是一個非常大的工程\n我希望完整之後再跟委員統一的報告好我希望這一個部分加把勁這一部分的監禮我一直覺得從過去到現在事實上還是很多漏洞所以讓非法的業者就是有洞可鑽影響我們環境其實還蠻大的好不好希望繼續努力謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.616 --> 00:07.096\n謝謝主席我們是不是有請彭部長王委員早部長早部長這個發生在前任署長任內的這個很嚴重的性騷甚至是性侵的事件我覺得這個事件應該是整個環境部要痛定思痛好好的檢討這個事件我看出了兩個很大的問題第一個就是原來\n\n00:33.121 --> 00:45.993\n環境部裡面設置的申訴的機制通通都失靈包括這個部長的信箱還有就是像部長信箱去投訴之後只有說感謝來信指教然後呢這一個環管所這個上課這個學員\n\n00:51.417 --> 01:13.430\n已經在教學評量表裡面去反映了結果也沒有向上通報所以原來它存在的這個機制裡面是嚴重的失靈第二個就是刻意的包庇這個是讓我覺得很不可思議特別是這個在監察院的報告裡面特別指出來當時的環保署的署長\n\n01:16.932 --> 01:29.248\n他在批示公文的過程當中他竟然有看到然後說沒有不妥那這個之前的前立委他在指出這個弊案的時候他其實也直指當時的環保署署長有刻意包庇之嫌那這個\n\n01:34.975 --> 01:45.403\n涉案人加害人李建鈺他現在是被台中地檢其實是羈押進鑑因為有發現新的事實他不只是性騷這當中可能還涉及到強制性侵的問題那事實上是非常嚴重的但是我覺得非常遺憾在當時的第一時間因為整個申訴機制的失靈還有加上這個刻意的包庇所以讓這個事件沒有在第一時間發生的時候就立刻採取行動然後\n\n02:04.677 --> 02:11.645\n把這一個加害人就是直接解雇掉離他的職務反而讓他還繼續在那個職務上面那這件事情我想問一下部長我知道這個不是你任內發生那你現在發現這樣的情況的話我要問你的是第一個\n\n02:23.297 --> 02:52.416\n你怎麼樣確保未來環境部的這個申訴的機制不會有吃案不會有失靈的情況這個部分你現在有做什麼改善嗎好報告委員第一個我上任之後就跟同仁說姓邵是零容忍當然現在又加上霸凌那這個兩個都是零容忍但是我們而且呢有一套的完整的程序在處理那我也加強性平的一個教育那也跟委員報告李建鈺先生為他被收押其實是本部的系統我們有一些\n\n02:53.377 --> 03:17.409\n被他曾經這個性騷的女同仁透過我們的系統希望能夠提告那我們就透過我們的系統鼓勵他們那我也不知道同事是誰那就進到提告系統之後才有到這個台中地檢人署把他說要進鑑所以那個是我們的系統的一個機制讓同仁相信我們這個體系不會吃案當然我必須說公務單位要完全透明\n\n03:18.149 --> 03:31.468\n要時間我就盡量把陽光可以進來那我們對於當時失職的同仁就是同仁也找外部的專家重新再做一個考量名單也送到監察院去了所以我們就照規定來進行那這個就會讓同仁會應該對我們的體系會更信賴\n\n03:35.893 --> 04:02.429\n那你現在的部長信箱裡面因為過去也發生這個署長信箱檢舉只有就是感謝來信指教這完全沒有受理就是忽視這一類的案件那未來像你這個部長信箱如果類似這樣的一個案件無論是性騷或者是霸凌的案件你到這個你現在你的部長信箱有專人好好的管理嗎就是你怎麼一個重視的情況報告委員\n\n04:03.289 --> 04:27.961\n我們對內有一個我個人的信箱那我親自看整個布局我還可以看得到我個人的信箱那我收到之後我會去處理那還有一個公開的所長信箱那那個所長信箱就有一定的機制那我也要求他們定期也要跟我匯報那我未來應該我也可以直接看得到他們通常都是定期在我們部務會議會跟我報告大概有幾個陳情或什麼樣的事件是\n\n04:28.661 --> 04:44.648\n好那我希望這樣的一個透過你們內部的一個積極改善這樣的情況無論是性騷甚至很嚴重的性侵不可以在這個環境部將來還有類似這樣被吃案的情況第二個我覺得應該要追究的是當時的這個署長他的責任如果當時的署長他是知情\n\n04:51.171 --> 04:56.436\n還刻意去包庇然後沒有做任何的處理我們知道這個張子敬署長他後來還高升了政務委員這個事件發生之後他其實還高升了那這件事情其實應該還是要有一個究責跟檢討\n\n05:08.507 --> 05:29.143\n那目前現在監察院他都只針對這個當事人李建鈺但是當時的這個署長呢我不知道你現在掌握到的資料你們內部同仁給你的資料當時的署長到底是知情還是不知情因為連公文裡面他好像都有看過啦他怎麼會是不知情呢你們現在掌握到的訊息是什麼\n\n05:29.523 --> 05:54.145\n包委員那個監察院他有一定的報告而且他的確有針對前署長他的有哪一些不周疏失有做出檢討那我就不能用我的角度來評斷那檢討這件事情呢我後來就請了外部委員總共有五個委員都是外部的跟我們無關的那重新來檢視當時的行政的機制那他們其實也建議了提出了這個懲處名單\n\n05:55.946 --> 06:20.153\n那當然啦懲處有兩種一個是有的人留在部內那我們可以做那有的已經離開了那我們就會請他現在的單位去做處理那因為有的官階比較高他是政務官那這個呢就要報請行政院來處理所以當時最後出來的結果的確有很高的那我的確是也跟卓院長報告那卓院長也鼓勵我就是公開事實就是事實所以我們就也這樣還付這個監察院來進行處理\n\n06:22.694 --> 06:43.970\n所以你們就已請監察院處理了嗎已經有回覆這個監察院正式來處理好這個本席非常贊成這樣的處理模式該究責就應該要究責因為就像你講的這種性騷甚至已經涉及到性騙這絕對是零容忍那如果作為首長竟然還包庇的話那這更的是助長這樣的一個犯罪這個絕對是\n\n06:45.652 --> 06:51.139\n沒有辦法接受的事情好那這一個部分呢就謝謝我們部長的處理接下來我要問你的是關於你們現在的監理你今天報告裡面特別提到廢清法將來還要再修法那跟廢清法有關的現在我們看到的一些大量的廢棄物\n\n07:03.775 --> 07:16.009\n他還是去找一些場地像這個新竹球場他這個大祕寶挖出大量的廢棄物那顯然他就是沒有走你們現在正常的程序就是申報如實的申報所以還是採這樣違法的清道最近這個桃園的社宅也被發現\n\n07:22.055 --> 07:29.581\n他的那個基地裡面開挖出來也是大量的這種廢棄物我要問的就是部長在這一個部分的監管跟監理我覺得還是有很大的改善的空間那你今天的報告也特別提到說未來的廢清法就是你要去加重這樣相關的這個罰則除了這個之外在管理的監督的機制上面你們到底還可以怎麼做\n\n07:48.015 --> 08:10.121\n好,報告委員喔,這件事情就是涉及營建土石房跟營建廢棄物那我看這個新竹的球場應該是營建廢棄物啦那目前呢,其實因為過去長期幾十年來就是內政部跟環境部都有一些,中間有一些灰色地帶然後跟地方政府之間的協調,所以包含他的整個管理機制的確是不完善的\n\n08:10.501 --> 08:32.992\n所以其實我們住戶區這幾個月也跟跨部會甚至跟地方政府在協調當中很快的大概應該近期就會對外有一個平台的機制然後管理的機制或是電子圍籬的機制新的機制會再出來也請委員給我們一點點時間因為這個非常大的一個架構那我們當然是希望廢清法的修正可以給這個嚴懲重罰會讓它更有力道\n\n08:35.333 --> 08:39.816\n因為這樣的情況我個人就看到是還蠻氾濫的非常氾濫所以這個部分我真的希望你們可以加把勁就是嚴加的查查因為像這個整個是利益業者自己拿去了但是環境的毀壞這個破壞的就是環境而且利用這樣的非法去謀業者的利益我覺得這一塊正是你們公權力應該要加大力道\n\n09:02.913 --> 09:29.439\n那我很希望你說你要跟內政部合作在平台還有地方政府所以我們也都積極高跟地方政府因為有幾個縣市例如說台北新北桃園都是產出的自己縣市無法去化都移到新竹桃園去新竹苗栗去倒的所以基本上或是中部就往南部去倒的確這個去化管道不足的問題還有管理機制的問題我們現在是一個一個在釐清在克服\n\n09:29.619 --> 09:50.945\n那你們大概還要多久時間?現在的確,因為這個包含委員,我來政府服務就發現說這個跨部會是最辛苦的那行政院要人出來幫你啊?有有有,這個院長都非常支持在做這個事情我們大概近期應該很快就會來對外做宣布因為這個也涉及到包含的地方,這是一個非常大的工程\n\n09:51.525 --> 10:08.544\n我希望完整之後再跟委員統一的報告好我希望這一個部分加把勁這一部分的監禮我一直覺得從過去到現在事實上還是很多漏洞所以讓非法的業者就是有洞可鑽影響我們環境其實還蠻大的好不好希望繼續努力謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.616,"end":7.096,"text":"謝謝主席我們是不是有請彭部長王委員早部長早部長這個發生在前任署長任內的這個很嚴重的性騷甚至是性侵的事件我覺得這個事件應該是整個環境部要痛定思痛好好的檢討這個事件我看出了兩個很大的問題第一個就是原來"},{"start":33.121,"end":45.993,"text":"環境部裡面設置的申訴的機制通通都失靈包括這個部長的信箱還有就是像部長信箱去投訴之後只有說感謝來信指教然後呢這一個環管所這個上課這個學員"},{"start":51.417,"end":73.43,"text":"已經在教學評量表裡面去反映了結果也沒有向上通報所以原來它存在的這個機制裡面是嚴重的失靈第二個就是刻意的包庇這個是讓我覺得很不可思議特別是這個在監察院的報告裡面特別指出來當時的環保署的署長"},{"start":76.932,"end":89.248,"text":"他在批示公文的過程當中他竟然有看到然後說沒有不妥那這個之前的前立委他在指出這個弊案的時候他其實也直指當時的環保署署長有刻意包庇之嫌那這個"},{"start":94.975,"end":105.403,"text":"涉案人加害人李建鈺他現在是被台中地檢其實是羈押進鑑因為有發現新的事實他不只是性騷這當中可能還涉及到強制性侵的問題那事實上是非常嚴重的但是我覺得非常遺憾在當時的第一時間因為整個申訴機制的失靈還有加上這個刻意的包庇所以讓這個事件沒有在第一時間發生的時候就立刻採取行動然後"},{"start":124.677,"end":131.645,"text":"把這一個加害人就是直接解雇掉離他的職務反而讓他還繼續在那個職務上面那這件事情我想問一下部長我知道這個不是你任內發生那你現在發現這樣的情況的話我要問你的是第一個"},{"start":143.297,"end":172.416,"text":"你怎麼樣確保未來環境部的這個申訴的機制不會有吃案不會有失靈的情況這個部分你現在有做什麼改善嗎好 報告委員第一個我上任之後就跟同仁說姓邵是零容忍當然現在又加上霸凌那這個兩個都是零容忍但是我們而且呢有一套的完整的程序在處理那我也加強性平的一個教育那也跟委員報告李建鈺先生為他被收押其實是本部的系統我們有一些"},{"start":173.377,"end":197.409,"text":"被他曾經這個性騷的女同仁透過我們的系統希望能夠提告那我們就透過我們的系統鼓勵他們那我也不知道同事是誰那就進到提告系統之後才有到這個台中地檢人署把他說要進鑑所以那個是我們的系統的一個機制讓同仁相信我們這個體系不會吃案當然我必須說公務單位要完全透明"},{"start":198.149,"end":211.468,"text":"要時間我就盡量把陽光可以進來那我們對於當時失職的同仁就是同仁也找外部的專家重新再做一個考量名單也送到監察院去了所以我們就照規定來進行那這個就會讓同仁會應該對我們的體系會更信賴"},{"start":215.893,"end":242.429,"text":"那你現在的部長信箱裡面因為過去也發生這個署長信箱檢舉只有就是感謝來信指教這完全沒有受理就是忽視這一類的案件那未來像你這個部長信箱如果類似這樣的一個案件無論是性騷或者是霸凌的案件你到這個你現在你的部長信箱有專人好好的管理嗎就是你怎麼一個重視的情況報告委員"},{"start":243.289,"end":267.961,"text":"我們對內有一個我個人的信箱那我親自看整個布局我還可以看得到我個人的信箱那我收到之後我會去處理那還有一個公開的所長信箱那那個所長信箱就有一定的機制那我也要求他們定期也要跟我匯報那我未來應該我也可以直接看得到他們通常都是定期在我們部務會議會跟我報告大概有幾個陳情或什麼樣的事件是"},{"start":268.661,"end":284.648,"text":"好那我希望這樣的一個透過你們內部的一個積極改善這樣的情況無論是性騷甚至很嚴重的性侵不可以在這個環境部將來還有類似這樣被吃案的情況第二個我覺得應該要追究的是當時的這個署長他的責任如果當時的署長他是知情"},{"start":291.171,"end":296.436,"text":"還刻意去包庇然後沒有做任何的處理我們知道這個張子敬署長他後來還高升了政務委員這個事件發生之後他其實還高升了那這件事情其實應該還是要有一個究責跟檢討"},{"start":308.507,"end":329.143,"text":"那目前現在監察院他都只針對這個當事人李建鈺但是當時的這個署長呢我不知道你現在掌握到的資料你們內部同仁給你的資料當時的署長到底是知情還是不知情因為連公文裡面他好像都有看過啦他怎麼會是不知情呢你們現在掌握到的訊息是什麼"},{"start":329.523,"end":354.145,"text":"包委員那個監察院他有一定的報告而且他的確有針對前署長他的有哪一些不周疏失有做出檢討那我就不能用我的角度來評斷那檢討這件事情呢我後來就請了外部委員總共有五個委員都是外部的跟我們無關的那重新來檢視當時的行政的機制那他們其實也建議了提出了這個懲處名單"},{"start":355.946,"end":380.153,"text":"那當然啦 懲處有兩種一個是有的人留在部內那我們可以做那有的已經離開了那我們就會請他現在的單位去做處理那因為有的官階比較高他是政務官那這個呢 就要報請行政院來處理所以當時最後出來的結果的確有很高的那我的確是也跟卓院長報告那卓院長也鼓勵我就是公開事實就是事實所以我們就也這樣還付這個監察院來進行處理"},{"start":382.694,"end":403.97,"text":"所以你們就已請監察院處理了嗎已經有回覆這個監察院正式來處理好這個本席非常贊成這樣的處理模式該究責就應該要究責因為就像你講的這種性騷甚至已經涉及到性騙這絕對是零容忍那如果作為首長竟然還包庇的話那這更的是助長這樣的一個犯罪這個絕對是"},{"start":405.652,"end":411.139,"text":"沒有辦法接受的事情好那這一個部分呢就謝謝我們部長的處理接下來我要問你的是關於你們現在的監理你今天報告裡面特別提到廢清法將來還要再修法那跟廢清法有關的現在我們看到的一些大量的廢棄物"},{"start":423.775,"end":436.009,"text":"他還是去找一些場地像這個新竹球場他這個大祕寶挖出大量的廢棄物那顯然他就是沒有走你們現在正常的程序就是申報 如實的申報所以還是採這樣違法的清道最近這個桃園的社宅也被發現"},{"start":442.055,"end":449.581,"text":"他的那個基地裡面開挖出來也是大量的這種廢棄物我要問的就是部長在這一個部分的監管跟監理我覺得還是有很大的改善的空間那你今天的報告也特別提到說未來的廢清法就是你要去加重這樣相關的這個罰則除了這個之外在管理的監督的機制上面你們到底還可以怎麼做"},{"start":468.015,"end":490.121,"text":"好,報告委員喔,這件事情就是涉及營建土石房跟營建廢棄物那我看這個新竹的球場應該是營建廢棄物啦那目前呢,其實因為過去長期幾十年來就是內政部跟環境部都有一些,中間有一些灰色地帶然後跟地方政府之間的協調,所以包含他的整個管理機制的確是不完善的"},{"start":490.501,"end":512.992,"text":"所以其實我們住戶區這幾個月也跟跨部會甚至跟地方政府在協調當中很快的大概應該近期就會對外有一個平台的機制然後管理的機制或是電子圍籬的機制新的機制會再出來也請委員給我們一點點時間因為這個非常大的一個架構那我們當然是希望廢清法的修正可以給這個嚴懲重罰會讓它更有力道"},{"start":515.333,"end":519.816,"text":"因為這樣的情況我個人就看到是還蠻氾濫的非常氾濫所以這個部分我真的希望你們可以加把勁就是嚴加的查查因為像這個整個是利益業者自己拿去了但是環境的毀壞這個破壞的就是環境而且利用這樣的非法去謀業者的利益我覺得這一塊正是你們公權力應該要加大力道"},{"start":542.913,"end":569.439,"text":"那我很希望你說你要跟內政部合作在平台還有地方政府所以我們也都積極高跟地方政府因為有幾個縣市例如說台北新北桃園都是產出的自己縣市無法去化都移到新竹桃園去新竹苗栗去倒的所以基本上或是中部就往南部去倒的確這個去化管道不足的問題還有管理機制的問題我們現在是一個一個在釐清在克服"},{"start":569.619,"end":590.945,"text":"那你們大概還要多久時間?現在的確,因為這個包含委員,我來政府服務就發現說這個跨部會是最辛苦的那行政院要人出來幫你啊?有有有,這個院長都非常支持在做這個事情我們大概近期應該很快就會來對外做宣布因為這個也涉及到包含的地方,這是一個非常大的工程"},{"start":591.525,"end":608.544,"text":"我希望完整之後再跟委員統一的報告好我希望這一個部分加把勁這一部分的監禮我一直覺得從過去到現在事實上還是很多漏洞所以讓非法的業者就是有洞可鑽影響我們環境其實還蠻大的好不好希望繼續努力謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":878,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時28分）謝謝主席，是不是有請彭部長？"],["彭部長啓明：王委員早。"],["王委員育敏：部長早。部長，發生在前任署長任內很嚴重的性騷、甚至是性侵的事件，我覺得整個環境部應該要痛定思痛、好好地檢討。從這個事件我看出了兩個很大的問題，第一個就是原來環境部裡面設置的申訴機制統統都失靈，包括向部長信箱投訴之後，只有說「感謝來信指教」；然後環管所上課學員已經在教學評量表裡面去反映了，結果也沒有向上通報，所以原來存在的機制是嚴重的失靈。","第二個就是刻意的包庇，這是讓我覺得很不可思議的，特別是監察院的報告裡面指出來，當時的環保署署長在批示公文的過程當中有看到，竟然說「沒有不妥」；之前前立委在指出這個弊案的時候，也直指當時的環保署署長有刻意包庇之嫌。這個涉案人、加害人李健育現在被臺中地檢羈押禁見，因為有發現新的事實，他不只是性騷，這當中可能還涉及強制性侵的問題，事實上是非常嚴重的，但是我覺得非常遺憾，在當時的第一時間因為整個申訴機制的失靈，加上刻意的包庇，所以讓這個事件沒有在第一時間發生的時候就立刻採取行動，包括把加害人直接解僱、調離他的職務，反而讓他還繼續在那個職務上面。這件事情我想問一下部長，我知道這個不是在你任內發生，而你現在發現有這樣的情況，我要問你的是，第一個，你怎麼樣確保未來環境部的申訴機制不會有吃案、不會有失靈的情況，這個部分你現在有做什麼改善嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個，我上任之後就跟同仁說，性騷是零容忍，當然現在又加上霸凌，這兩個都是零容忍，而且這有一套完整的程序在處理，此外，我也有加強性平的教育。也跟委員報告，李健育先生被收押其實因為是本部的系統，就是我們有一些曾經被他性騷的女同仁，透過我們的系統，希望能夠提告，我們就透過本部的系統鼓勵他們，而且我也不知道那些同仁是誰，而是進到提告系統之後，才有到臺中地檢署進而把他收押禁見，所以這是我們的一個系統、機制，讓同仁相信我們這個體系不會吃案。當然我必須說，公務單位要完全透明是要時間的，我會儘量讓陽光可以進來，而我們對於當時失職的同仁，也找了外部的專家，重新再做一個考量，名單也送到監察院去了，所以我們就照規定來進行，這個應該會讓同仁對我們的體系更為信賴。"],["王委員育敏：好。那你現在的部長信箱裡面，因為過去也發生向署長信箱提出檢舉，最後就是只有「感謝來信指教」，完全沒有加以受理，忽視這一類的案件，未來你的部長信箱，如果有類似這樣的案件，無論是性騷或者是霸凌的案件，一到你的部長信箱後，像現在你的部長信箱有專人好好管理嗎？你是如何加以重視的？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，對內有一個我個人的信箱，我是親自看，整個部內只有我才可以看得到我個人的信箱，在收到之後，我會去處理；還有一個公開的首長信箱，這個首長信箱就有一定的機制，我有要求他們定期要跟我匯報，未來我應該也可以直接看得到，他們通常都是定期地在我們部務會議裡跟我報告大概有幾個陳情案或是有什麼樣的事件。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望透過你們內部積極的改善，無論是性騷甚至很嚴重的性侵，將來在環境部不可以還有類似這樣被吃案的情況發生。","第二個，我覺得應該要追究的是當時的署長的責任，如果當時的署長是知情的，還刻意去包庇，甚至沒有做任何的處理，我們知道張子敬署長後來還高升為政務委員，即這個事件發生之後，他其實還高升了，所以這件事情其實還是應該要有一個究責跟檢討。目前監察院都只針對這個當事人李健育，但是當時的署長，我不知道你現在掌握到的資料如何，你們內部同仁給你的資料中，當時的署長到底是知情還是不知情？因為連公文他好像都有看過，他怎麼會不知情呢？你們現在掌握到的訊息是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，監察院有一定的報告，而且的確有針對前署長有哪一些不周、疏失，都有做出檢討，那我就不能用我的角度來評斷。關於檢討這件事情，我後來就請了外部委員，總共有5個委員，都是外部的、跟我們無關的，請他們重新檢視當時的行政機制，他們其實也建議並提出懲處名單，當然，懲處有兩種，像有的還留在部內，那我們可以去處理；有的則是已經離開了，我們就會請他現在的單位去處理，因為有的官階比較高，比方說他是政務官，這個就要報請行政院來處理。當時最後出來的結果，的確有很高官階的，我的確也跟卓院長報告了，卓院長也鼓勵我予以公開，事實就是事實，所以我們也這樣函復監察院進行處理。"],["王委員育敏：所以你們已經有移請監察院處理了？"],["彭部長啓明：已經有回覆監察院，正式來做處理。"],["王委員育敏：好，本席非常贊成有這樣的處理模式，該究責就應該要究責，就像你講的，這種性騷甚至已經涉及到性侵，這絕對是零容忍，如果作為首長竟然還包庇的話，更是會助長這樣一個犯罪，這絕對是沒有辦法接受的事情。好，這個部分就謝謝我們部長處理。","接下來我要問你也是關於你們現在的監理，你今天報告裡面特別提到廢清法將來還要再修法，跟廢清法有關的，像現在我們看到一些大量的廢棄物，它還是去找一些場地傾倒，像新竹球場這個大秘寶挖出大量的廢棄物，顯然它就是沒有走你們現在正常的程序，如實的申報，所以還是採這樣違法傾倒，此外，最近桃園的社宅也被發現它的基地裡面開挖出來大量的廢棄物。我要問的是，部長，在這個部分的監管跟監理，我覺得還是有很大的改善空間。你今天的報告也特別提到，未來的廢清法你要去加重相關的罰則。除了這個之外，在管理、監督的機制上面，你們到底還可以怎麼做？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這件事情涉及營建土石方跟營建廢棄物，我看新竹的球場應該是營建廢棄物，因為過去長期幾十年來，內政部跟環境部中間都有一些灰色地帶，然後還有跟地方政府之間的協調，所以包含整個管理機制，的確是不完善的。其實我們在過去這幾個月有跨部會，甚至也跟地方政府在協調當中，很快的在近期應該就會對外公布一個平臺的機制、管理的機制或是電子圍籬的機制，就是新的機制會再出來，也請委員給我們一點點時間，因為這是一個非常大的架構，我們當然希望廢清法的修正可以給他們嚴懲、重罰，讓其更有力道。"],["王委員育敏：對，我個人看到這樣的情況是滿氾濫的。"],["彭部長啓明：非常氾濫。"],["王委員育敏：所以這個部分，我真的希望你們可以加把勁嚴加查察，因為整個利益是業者自己拿去了，但是環境的毀壞，被破壞的就是環境，而且利用這樣一個非法讓業者謀利，我覺得這一塊正是你們公權力應該要加大力道的，你說要跟內政部合作有一個這樣的平臺嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：還有地方政府，所以我們也都積極跟地方政府協調，因為這有幾個縣市，例如說臺北、新北、桃園都是產出的，自己縣市無法去化，都移到新竹、苗栗去倒的，或是中部往南部去倒，的確是有去化管道不足的問題，還有管理機制的問題，我們現在是一個一個在釐清、在克服。"],["王委員育敏：你們大概還要多久時間？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我來政府服務後就發現，跨部會協調是最辛苦的，現在剩下最後一哩路……"],["王委員育敏：行政院要有人出來幫你，像政委等等的。"],["彭部長啓明：有！有！有！院長都非常支持來做這個事情，我們近期應該很快就會對外宣布，因為這個也涉及到地方，這是一個非常大的工程，我希望完整之後再跟委員統一的報告。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望這一個部分加把勁，就這一部分的監理，我一直覺得從過去到現在，事實上還是有很多漏洞。"],["彭部長啓明：是，非常多。"],["王委員育敏：讓非法的業者就是有洞可鑽，對我們的環境其實影響還滿大的，希望繼續努力，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來請涂權吉委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-8","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","牛煦庭","林淑芬","葉元之","王正旭","劉書彬","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃秀芳","楊曜","陳瑩","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-04-28"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00003"}}}