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所以因為我最記得部長講喔你說台灣的SRF被汙名化那我說因為你的標準就是垃圾焚化爐的標準所以你不要讓它被汙名化當然要把這個原料還有它排放的標準一定要制定像人家先進國家歐美日韓這樣才能解除民眾心中的疑慮啊因為你都用垃圾廠的標準民眾當然不願意讓你進廠去設置嘛沒錯沒錯\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 185.809, \"end\": 186.029, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 186.029, \"end\": 186.169, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 186.169, \"end\": 186.45, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 186.45, \"end\": 186.79, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 186.79, \"end\": 186.97, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 186.97, \"end\": 187.29, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 187.29, \"end\": 187.45, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 187.45, \"end\": 187.97, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 187.97, \"end\": 188.131, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 188.131, \"end\": 188.811, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, 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\"text\": \"或者轉運這些車輛那也可以提升垃圾處理的量能那賽斯環保局有提出相關的補助計畫那不知道這一部分的進度如何\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 323.679, \"end\": 323.819, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 323.819, \"end\": 324.58, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 324.58, \"end\": 326.341, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"輛\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 326.341, \"end\": 326.541, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 326.541, \"end\": 326.721, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 326.721, \"end\": 326.861, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 326.861, \"end\": 327.021, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 327.021, \"end\": 327.262, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 327.262, \"end\": 327.722, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"垃\", \"start\": 327.722, \"end\": 327.942, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"圾\", \"start\": 327.942, \"end\": 328.102, \"score\": 0.869}, 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 374.608, \"end\": 374.748, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 374.748, \"end\": 374.868, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 374.868, \"end\": 375.008, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 375.008, \"end\": 375.228, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 375.228, \"end\": 375.448, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 375.448, \"end\": 375.468, \"score\": 0.984}]}, {\"start\": 376.088, \"end\": 391.466, \"text\": \"因為我不是核能的主管機關啦齁但是我們會關注這個減碳的工具那的確核能是減碳是有一些用處的但是也跟委員報告因為我們也很努力的去看國際能源總署喔IEA他的報告其實如果要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 376.088, \"end\": 376.248, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 376.248, \"end\": 376.829, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 376.829, \"end\": 376.929, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 376.929, \"end\": 377.069, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 377.069, 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\"end\": 387.441, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 387.441, \"end\": 387.561, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 387.561, \"end\": 387.661, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 387.661, \"end\": 387.822, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 387.822, \"end\": 388.622, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 388.622, \"end\": 388.743, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 388.743, \"end\": 389.143, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 389.143, \"end\": 389.283, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 389.283, \"end\": 389.744, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 389.744, \"end\": 389.904, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"E\", \"start\": 389.904, \"end\": 390.064, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 390.064, \"end\": 390.264, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 390.264, \"end\": 390.364, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 582.266, \"end\": 582.526, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 582.526, \"end\": 582.687, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 582.687, \"end\": 582.827, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 582.827, \"end\": 582.907, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 582.907, \"end\": 583.068, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 583.068, \"end\": 583.208, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 583.208, \"end\": 583.789, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 583.789, \"end\": 583.91, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 583.91, \"end\": 583.93, \"score\": 0.017}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,538 --> 00:00:08,642\n好謝謝主席那請我們彭部長請部長圖委員好\n\n2\n00:00:15,155 --> 00:00:37,702\n那在去年9月的時候我們環境部有公布一個全台SRF的體檢報告那個時候我們看到報告上面有48家的SRF廠有12家是不合格的那不合格率有達25%那也經過了半年的輔導期不知道現在這輔導的成效如何請我們署長來回應\n\n3\n00:00:39,462 --> 00:01:07,511\n那現在就是我們的辦法發布之後那才有我們的法源去要求說他重新來檢視他的費薪書或者是程序可是後來看輔導結果目前好像還有30%到48%好像幾乎也快一半好像目前成效不是很好那有些業者他輔導之後他決定要退出那其中有7家是退場5家轉型\n\n4\n00:01:09,381 --> 00:01:32,337\n那其他的部分呢是他們自己素質稱之不齊還是我們環境部這一方面沒有輔導好像有些你們的報告也說還有一些確實是成效不好那他們都退場嗎不好都退場嗎我們也有在輔導說他願不願意來這個轉型那因為還是有些因為現在我們的要求會比較高譬如說空氣標準會加嚴\n\n5\n00:01:33,978 --> 00:01:59,770\n還有我們要做一些檢測那所以這些讓他們要投入比較多的成本那把這個環境可以把它顧好那品質也可以做好對啊因為這部分我們說我們前端原料管控一定要做好雖然那時候部長有答應說我們在後端排放氣體的標準我們要加鹽你後端加鹽可是前端這個原料管控也是很重要不然它裡面的原料沒有管控好\n\n6\n00:02:00,270 --> 00:02:20,786\n他到時候燒出來還是帶澳新這對民眾的健康一定有很大的問題而且目前部長應該也知道目前關於這SF廠他現在也還是在興建那現在我們也擔心說這個原料跟排放標準我們希望能夠嚴格的管制來制定好不然這民眾現在還是有很大的疑慮\n\n7\n00:02:21,707 --> 00:02:41,910\n包委員因為我們這個SRF我們也設計了一個白皮書近期這個最後版本因為我們其實訂了之後很多的廠商也來反映說太嚴太嚴太嚴可是就是嚴他們有感表示說我們訂的法規有效所以目前的確經過那個溝通之後我們正式會再出來那這個就是一個\n\n8\n00:02:42,630 --> 00:03:04,588\n一個依循的這個根據的樣本所以目前呢其實我們就希望說的確沒有辦法參與的我們感謝他那未來呢我們就是用更好的未來如果你好好做可以賺到錢可以往前走我們就鼓勵你要符合我們的環境的法規環境的法規來進行那如果不行的你還要我們輔導我們可以協助你那如果真的你不想做那只好請你離開\n\n9\n00:03:05,809 --> 00:03:30,925\n對啊所以因為我最記得部長講喔你說台灣的SRF被汙名化那我說因為你的標準就是垃圾焚化爐的標準所以你不要讓它被汙名化當然要把這個原料還有它排放的標準一定要制定像人家先進國家歐美日韓這樣才能解除民眾心中的疑慮啊因為你都用垃圾廠的標準民眾當然不願意讓你進廠去設置嘛沒錯沒錯\n\n10\n00:03:31,665 --> 00:03:56,664\n所以我希望說這部分還是要嚴格管控要真正讓SRF能夠落實那民眾當然才能夠放心嘛好謝謝謝謝委員的建議好那接下來就是也感謝部長上一次我們有到陽梅跟觀音考察垃圾處理場這部分問題那部長也有承諾在明年底會完成全台垃圾山這些裸露\n\n11\n00:03:57,725 --> 00:04:10,919\n復土這些問題那是不是確定都這個進度在明年底前都可以完成包委員因為現在那個數字還沒有開始正式進行在準備要動下半年應該會比較快那也請委員到時候來監督那我因為當地這個\n\n12\n00:04:12,861 --> 00:04:31,349\n這個場我們跟委員去過了我也請委員那個當地的里長因為里長感同身受啦所以我也邀請他說我們明年年底完成了之後請委員還有里長一起來見證所以我們是盯著很緊就盯著我們這個還管署一起來進行這個事情所以也請委員放心我們會積極來做\n\n13\n00:04:32,809 --> 00:05:02,149\n對因為現在馬上又夏天到了每次這周邊的住戶對於這個社場因為夏天溫度越來越高這蚊影滋生這惡臭真的嚴重影響到他們的生活環境所以這個部分一到夏天這民眾真的是怨聲載道當然我們也說部長有允諾說明年底全部完成我們也希望說能夠照部長講的盡快把它完成因為這個民眾生活周邊的環境真的對他們影響很大\n\n14\n00:05:02,509 --> 00:05:23,119\n好沒問題好那而且那時候我們有針對有提到垃圾清潔員休息室的整備還有購買相關車輛這部分因為我們也希望讓我們這些清潔隊員能夠有好的工作環境還有相關車輛的購置像山貓挖土雞啊\n\n15\n00:05:23,679 --> 00:05:34,526\n或者轉運這些車輛那也可以提升垃圾處理的量能那賽斯環保局有提出相關的補助計畫那不知道這一部分的進度如何\n\n16\n00:05:54,039 --> 00:06:15,468\n好那這個計畫提上來的時候也希望我們環境部部長來大力支持一下好沒問題沒問題謝謝好那接下來還有因為在上週我們河安會主委陳明禎主委有說非核家園延逸10年可減輕我國現在的供電壓力不知道部長對這部分有什麼看法\n\n17\n00:06:16,088 --> 00:06:31,466\n因為我不是核能的主管機關啦齁但是我們會關注這個減碳的工具那的確核能是減碳是有一些用處的但是也跟委員報告因為我們也很努力的去看國際能源總署喔IEA他的報告其實如果要\n\n18\n00:06:31,826 --> 00:06:50,993\n其實我們現在不能叫延役了啦要叫做重啟了齁那如果重啟的話第一個他的經費還蠻多的齁一個機組大概都是500億起跳的那第二個呢是他也要一個時間那以日本的經驗都是五到十年大概平均大概五六年左右所以基本上呢這個恐怕不是說\n\n19\n00:06:51,813 --> 00:07:16,430\n一件一個這麼簡單按一個鍵就可以在那個他比買一台買一個房子還要很謹慎所以基本上目前我們是的確是說如果要淨零的話核能未來我可以估計說2030年新的核能如果起來的話真的有需求但是目前來看的話如果我們要去重啟的話基本上趕不上現在的這個時間的確有這個問題存在所以因為我們都有在開這個氣候變遷委員會\n\n20\n00:07:22,173 --> 00:07:43,645\n那賴總統有一再強調2050淨零碳排這個目標不會改變那當然我們也說核安會主委有講這核電的研議確實能夠減輕它供電的壓力那是不是核電研議就像部長剛剛講其實核電研議其實對於我們2050淨零碳排這個目標是不是也有幫助\n\n21\n00:07:44,065 --> 00:08:09,114\n而包吻是有幫助但是有但書但是他其實花的錢很多第二個是是不是因為我們沒有針對像日本一樣完整的去做這個斷層或是核電廠的細部的評估所以我自己在決定這個近鄰藍圖的時候我就發現說哇這樣其實我沒有辦法決定控制看得到的事實所以基本上我們目前近鄰的路徑是沒有核能存在的\n\n22\n00:08:09,634 --> 00:08:26,148\n所以其實如果單就以環境部淨零碳排的這方面考量來講其實核電的研議對於淨零碳排是有幫助的嗎?對,報告委員環境部應該有兩個觀點第一個是對淨零碳排有幫助啊但是其實這個核電廠當時興建的時候並沒有環評這件事情\n\n23\n00:08:29,210 --> 00:08:49,178\n就是說對於這件事情沒有一個完整的檢查跟社會的溝通所以如果說我們現在要重啟的話我認為社會會期待說和安會在管理的時候要更詳細那基本上依照我們對環評的了解或共識的話真的要花上不少的時間啦而且溝通的成本還有金額都非常的大\n\n24\n00:08:49,838 --> 00:09:06,783\n好因為我們一直部長也知道我們其實一直都很支持我們近年碳排這個目標那當然我們覺得政府不是只要訂目標應該要有具體的方案務實去走去達成這個目標那現在河山演義這一部分問題也請部長環境部我們務實的來面對\n\n25\n00:09:11,344 --> 00:09:38,499\n來了解說是不是對淨零碳排這一方面的幫助那也希望能夠朝著淨零碳排我們總統這個目標我覺得這個也是趨勢也是大家希望的淨零碳排2050那我們要去做我們當然要階段性不是說只目標定在那邊沒有具體的方案所以像我們這些有可能對於淨零碳排有幫助的這一部分我希望環境部部長也能夠務實的來面對\n\n26\n00:09:39,980 --> 00:09:43,930\n好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝部長那大家一起努力謝謝好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6538\t8642\t好 謝謝主席 那請我們彭部長請部長圖委員好\n15155\t37702\t那在去年9月的時候我們環境部有公布一個全台SRF的體檢報告那個時候我們看到報告上面有48家的SRF廠有12家是不合格的那不合格率有達25%那也經過了半年的輔導期不知道現在這輔導的成效如何請我們署長來回應\n39462\t67511\t那現在就是我們的辦法發布之後那才有我們的法源去要求說他重新來檢視他的費薪書或者是程序可是後來看輔導結果目前好像還有30%到48%好像幾乎也快一半好像目前成效不是很好那有些業者他輔導之後他決定要退出那其中有7家是退場5家轉型\n69381\t92337\t那其他的部分呢 是他們自己素質稱之不齊還是我們環境部這一方面沒有輔導好像有些你們的報告也說還有一些確實是成效不好那他們都退場嗎 不好都退場嗎我們也有在輔導說他願不願意來這個轉型那因為還是有些 因為現在我們的要求會比較高 譬如說空氣標準會加嚴\n93978\t119770\t還有我們要做一些檢測那所以這些讓他們要投入比較多的成本那把這個環境可以把它顧好那品質也可以做好對啊因為這部分我們說我們前端原料管控一定要做好雖然那時候部長有答應說我們在後端排放氣體的標準我們要加鹽你後端加鹽可是前端這個原料管控也是很重要不然它裡面的原料沒有管控好\n120270\t140786\t他到時候燒出來還是帶澳新這對民眾的健康一定有很大的問題而且目前部長應該也知道目前關於這SF廠他現在也還是在興建那現在我們也擔心說這個原料跟排放標準我們希望能夠嚴格的管制來制定好不然這民眾現在還是有很大的疑慮\n141707\t161910\t包委員因為我們這個SRF我們也設計了一個白皮書近期這個最後版本因為我們其實訂了之後很多的廠商也來反映說太嚴太嚴太嚴可是就是嚴他們有感表示說我們訂的法規有效所以目前的確經過那個溝通之後我們正式會再出來那這個就是一個\n162630\t184588\t一個依循的這個根據的樣本所以目前呢其實我們就希望說的確沒有辦法參與的我們感謝他那未來呢我們就是用更好的未來如果你好好做可以賺到錢可以往前走我們就鼓勵你要符合我們的環境的法規環境的法規來進行那如果不行的你還要我們輔導我們可以協助你那如果真的你不想做那只好請你離開\n185809\t210925\t對啊 所以因為我最記得部長講喔你說台灣的SRF被汙名化那我說因為你的標準就是垃圾焚化爐的標準所以你不要讓它被汙名化當然要把這個原料還有它排放的標準一定要制定像人家先進國家歐美日韓這樣才能解除民眾心中的疑慮啊因為你都用垃圾廠的標準民眾當然不願意讓你進廠去設置嘛沒錯沒錯\n211665\t236664\t所以我希望說這部分還是要嚴格管控要真正讓SRF能夠落實那民眾當然才能夠放心嘛好 謝謝 謝謝委員的建議好 那接下來就是也感謝部長上一次我們有到陽梅跟觀音考察垃圾處理場這部分問題那部長也有承諾在明年底會完成全台垃圾山這些裸露\n237725\t250919\t復土這些問題那是不是確定都這個進度在明年底前都可以完成包委員因為現在那個數字還沒有開始正式進行在準備要動下半年應該會比較快那也請委員到時候來監督那我因為當地這個\n252861\t271349\t這個場我們跟委員去過了我也請委員那個當地的里長因為里長感同身受啦所以我也邀請他說我們明年年底完成了之後請委員還有里長一起來見證所以我們是盯著很緊就盯著我們這個還管署一起來進行這個事情所以也請委員放心我們會積極來做\n272809\t302149\t對 因為現在馬上又夏天到了每次這周邊的住戶對於這個社場因為夏天溫度越來越高這蚊影滋生 這惡臭真的嚴重影響到他們的生活環境所以這個部分一到夏天這民眾真的是怨聲載道當然我們也說部長有允諾說明年底全部完成我們也希望說能夠照部長講的盡快把它完成因為這個民眾生活周邊的環境真的對他們影響很大\n302509\t323119\t好沒問題好那而且那時候我們有針對有提到垃圾清潔員休息室的整備還有購買相關車輛這部分因為我們也希望讓我們這些清潔隊員能夠有好的工作環境還有相關車輛的購置像山貓挖土雞啊\n323679\t334526\t或者轉運這些車輛那也可以提升垃圾處理的量能那賽斯環保局有提出相關的補助計畫那不知道這一部分的進度如何\n354039\t375468\t好那這個計畫提上來的時候也希望我們環境部部長來大力支持一下好沒問題沒問題謝謝好那接下來還有因為在上週我們河安會主委陳明禎主委有說非核家園延逸10年可減輕我國現在的供電壓力不知道部長對這部分有什麼看法\n376088\t391466\t因為我不是核能的主管機關啦齁但是我們會關注這個減碳的工具那的確核能是減碳是有一些用處的但是也跟委員報告因為我們也很努力的去看國際能源總署喔IEA他的報告其實如果要\n391826\t410993\t其實我們現在不能叫延役了啦要叫做重啟了齁那如果重啟的話第一個他的經費還蠻多的齁一個機組大概都是500億起跳的那第二個呢是他也要一個時間那以日本的經驗都是五到十年大概平均大概五六年左右所以基本上呢這個恐怕不是說\n411813\t436430\t一件一個這麼簡單按一個鍵就可以在那個他比買一台買一個房子還要很謹慎所以基本上目前我們是的確是說如果要淨零的話核能未來我可以估計說2030年新的核能如果起來的話真的有需求但是目前來看的話如果我們要去重啟的話基本上趕不上現在的這個時間的確有這個問題存在所以因為我們都有在開這個氣候變遷委員會\n442173\t463645\t那賴總統有一再強調2050淨零碳排這個目標不會改變那當然我們也說核安會主委有講這核電的研議確實能夠減輕它供電的壓力那是不是核電研議就像部長剛剛講其實核電研議其實對於我們2050淨零碳排這個目標是不是也有幫助\n464065\t489114\t而包吻是有幫助但是有但書但是他其實花的錢很多第二個是是不是因為我們沒有針對像日本一樣完整的去做這個斷層或是核電廠的細部的評估所以我自己在決定這個近鄰藍圖的時候我就發現說哇這樣其實我沒有辦法決定控制看得到的事實所以基本上我們目前近鄰的路徑是沒有核能存在的\n489634\t506148\t所以其實如果單就以環境部淨零碳排的這方面考量來講其實核電的研議對於淨零碳排是有幫助的嗎?對,報告委員環境部應該有兩個觀點第一個是對淨零碳排有幫助啊但是其實這個核電廠當時興建的時候並沒有環評這件事情\n509210\t529178\t就是說對於這件事情沒有一個完整的檢查跟社會的溝通所以如果說我們現在要重啟的話我認為社會會期待說和安會在管理的時候要更詳細那基本上依照我們對環評的了解或共識的話真的要花上不少的時間啦而且溝通的成本還有金額都非常的大\n529838\t546783\t好 因為我們一直部長也知道我們其實一直都很支持我們近年碳排這個目標那當然我們覺得政府不是只要訂目標應該要有具體的方案務實去走去達成這個目標那現在河山演義這一部分問題也請部長環境部我們務實的來面對\n551344\t578499\t來了解說是不是對淨零碳排這一方面的幫助那也希望能夠朝著淨零碳排我們總統這個目標我覺得這個也是趨勢也是大家希望的淨零碳排2050那我們要去做我們當然要階段性不是說只目標定在那邊沒有具體的方案所以像我們這些有可能對於淨零碳排有幫助的這一部分我希望環境部部長也能夠務實的來面對\n579980\t583930\t好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝部長那大家一起努力謝謝好謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那請我們彭部長請部長圖委員好\n那在去年9月的時候我們環境部有公布一個全台SRF的體檢報告那個時候我們看到報告上面有48家的SRF廠有12家是不合格的那不合格率有達25%那也經過了半年的輔導期不知道現在這輔導的成效如何請我們署長來回應\n那現在就是我們的辦法發布之後那才有我們的法源去要求說他重新來檢視他的費薪書或者是程序可是後來看輔導結果目前好像還有30%到48%好像幾乎也快一半好像目前成效不是很好那有些業者他輔導之後他決定要退出那其中有7家是退場5家轉型\n那其他的部分呢 是他們自己素質稱之不齊還是我們環境部這一方面沒有輔導好像有些你們的報告也說還有一些確實是成效不好那他們都退場嗎 不好都退場嗎我們也有在輔導說他願不願意來這個轉型那因為還是有些 因為現在我們的要求會比較高 譬如說空氣標準會加嚴\n還有我們要做一些檢測那所以這些讓他們要投入比較多的成本那把這個環境可以把它顧好那品質也可以做好對啊因為這部分我們說我們前端原料管控一定要做好雖然那時候部長有答應說我們在後端排放氣體的標準我們要加鹽你後端加鹽可是前端這個原料管控也是很重要不然它裡面的原料沒有管控好\n他到時候燒出來還是帶澳新這對民眾的健康一定有很大的問題而且目前部長應該也知道目前關於這SF廠他現在也還是在興建那現在我們也擔心說這個原料跟排放標準我們希望能夠嚴格的管制來制定好不然這民眾現在還是有很大的疑慮\n包委員因為我們這個SRF我們也設計了一個白皮書近期這個最後版本因為我們其實訂了之後很多的廠商也來反映說太嚴太嚴太嚴可是就是嚴他們有感表示說我們訂的法規有效所以目前的確經過那個溝通之後我們正式會再出來那這個就是一個\n一個依循的這個根據的樣本所以目前呢其實我們就希望說的確沒有辦法參與的我們感謝他那未來呢我們就是用更好的未來如果你好好做可以賺到錢可以往前走我們就鼓勵你要符合我們的環境的法規環境的法規來進行那如果不行的你還要我們輔導我們可以協助你那如果真的你不想做那只好請你離開\n對啊 所以因為我最記得部長講喔你說台灣的SRF被汙名化那我說因為你的標準就是垃圾焚化爐的標準所以你不要讓它被汙名化當然要把這個原料還有它排放的標準一定要制定像人家先進國家歐美日韓這樣才能解除民眾心中的疑慮啊因為你都用垃圾廠的標準民眾當然不願意讓你進廠去設置嘛沒錯沒錯\n所以我希望說這部分還是要嚴格管控要真正讓SRF能夠落實那民眾當然才能夠放心嘛好 謝謝 謝謝委員的建議好 那接下來就是也感謝部長上一次我們有到陽梅跟觀音考察垃圾處理場這部分問題那部長也有承諾在明年底會完成全台垃圾山這些裸露\n復土這些問題那是不是確定都這個進度在明年底前都可以完成包委員因為現在那個數字還沒有開始正式進行在準備要動下半年應該會比較快那也請委員到時候來監督那我因為當地這個\n這個場我們跟委員去過了我也請委員那個當地的里長因為里長感同身受啦所以我也邀請他說我們明年年底完成了之後請委員還有里長一起來見證所以我們是盯著很緊就盯著我們這個還管署一起來進行這個事情所以也請委員放心我們會積極來做\n對 因為現在馬上又夏天到了每次這周邊的住戶對於這個社場因為夏天溫度越來越高這蚊影滋生 這惡臭真的嚴重影響到他們的生活環境所以這個部分一到夏天這民眾真的是怨聲載道當然我們也說部長有允諾說明年底全部完成我們也希望說能夠照部長講的盡快把它完成因為這個民眾生活周邊的環境真的對他們影響很大\n好沒問題好那而且那時候我們有針對有提到垃圾清潔員休息室的整備還有購買相關車輛這部分因為我們也希望讓我們這些清潔隊員能夠有好的工作環境還有相關車輛的購置像山貓挖土雞啊\n或者轉運這些車輛那也可以提升垃圾處理的量能那賽斯環保局有提出相關的補助計畫那不知道這一部分的進度如何\n好那這個計畫提上來的時候也希望我們環境部部長來大力支持一下好沒問題沒問題謝謝好那接下來還有因為在上週我們河安會主委陳明禎主委有說非核家園延逸10年可減輕我國現在的供電壓力不知道部長對這部分有什麼看法\n因為我不是核能的主管機關啦齁但是我們會關注這個減碳的工具那的確核能是減碳是有一些用處的但是也跟委員報告因為我們也很努力的去看國際能源總署喔IEA他的報告其實如果要\n其實我們現在不能叫延役了啦要叫做重啟了齁那如果重啟的話第一個他的經費還蠻多的齁一個機組大概都是500億起跳的那第二個呢是他也要一個時間那以日本的經驗都是五到十年大概平均大概五六年左右所以基本上呢這個恐怕不是說\n一件一個這麼簡單按一個鍵就可以在那個他比買一台買一個房子還要很謹慎所以基本上目前我們是的確是說如果要淨零的話核能未來我可以估計說2030年新的核能如果起來的話真的有需求但是目前來看的話如果我們要去重啟的話基本上趕不上現在的這個時間的確有這個問題存在所以因為我們都有在開這個氣候變遷委員會\n那賴總統有一再強調2050淨零碳排這個目標不會改變那當然我們也說核安會主委有講這核電的研議確實能夠減輕它供電的壓力那是不是核電研議就像部長剛剛講其實核電研議其實對於我們2050淨零碳排這個目標是不是也有幫助\n而包吻是有幫助但是有但書但是他其實花的錢很多第二個是是不是因為我們沒有針對像日本一樣完整的去做這個斷層或是核電廠的細部的評估所以我自己在決定這個近鄰藍圖的時候我就發現說哇這樣其實我沒有辦法決定控制看得到的事實所以基本上我們目前近鄰的路徑是沒有核能存在的\n所以其實如果單就以環境部淨零碳排的這方面考量來講其實核電的研議對於淨零碳排是有幫助的嗎?對,報告委員環境部應該有兩個觀點第一個是對淨零碳排有幫助啊但是其實這個核電廠當時興建的時候並沒有環評這件事情\n就是說對於這件事情沒有一個完整的檢查跟社會的溝通所以如果說我們現在要重啟的話我認為社會會期待說和安會在管理的時候要更詳細那基本上依照我們對環評的了解或共識的話真的要花上不少的時間啦而且溝通的成本還有金額都非常的大\n好 因為我們一直部長也知道我們其實一直都很支持我們近年碳排這個目標那當然我們覺得政府不是只要訂目標應該要有具體的方案務實去走去達成這個目標那現在河山演義這一部分問題也請部長環境部我們務實的來面對\n來了解說是不是對淨零碳排這一方面的幫助那也希望能夠朝著淨零碳排我們總統這個目標我覺得這個也是趨勢也是大家希望的淨零碳排2050那我們要去做我們當然要階段性不是說只目標定在那邊沒有具體的方案所以像我們這些有可能對於淨零碳排有幫助的這一部分我希望環境部部長也能夠務實的來面對\n好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝部長那大家一起努力謝謝好謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.538 --> 00:08.642\n好謝謝主席那請我們彭部長請部長圖委員好\n\n00:15.155 --> 00:37.702\n那在去年9月的時候我們環境部有公布一個全台SRF的體檢報告那個時候我們看到報告上面有48家的SRF廠有12家是不合格的那不合格率有達25%那也經過了半年的輔導期不知道現在這輔導的成效如何請我們署長來回應\n\n00:39.462 --> 01:07.511\n那現在就是我們的辦法發布之後那才有我們的法源去要求說他重新來檢視他的費薪書或者是程序可是後來看輔導結果目前好像還有30%到48%好像幾乎也快一半好像目前成效不是很好那有些業者他輔導之後他決定要退出那其中有7家是退場5家轉型\n\n01:09.381 --> 01:32.337\n那其他的部分呢是他們自己素質稱之不齊還是我們環境部這一方面沒有輔導好像有些你們的報告也說還有一些確實是成效不好那他們都退場嗎不好都退場嗎我們也有在輔導說他願不願意來這個轉型那因為還是有些因為現在我們的要求會比較高譬如說空氣標準會加嚴\n\n01:33.978 --> 01:59.770\n還有我們要做一些檢測那所以這些讓他們要投入比較多的成本那把這個環境可以把它顧好那品質也可以做好對啊因為這部分我們說我們前端原料管控一定要做好雖然那時候部長有答應說我們在後端排放氣體的標準我們要加鹽你後端加鹽可是前端這個原料管控也是很重要不然它裡面的原料沒有管控好\n\n02:00.270 --> 02:20.786\n他到時候燒出來還是帶澳新這對民眾的健康一定有很大的問題而且目前部長應該也知道目前關於這SF廠他現在也還是在興建那現在我們也擔心說這個原料跟排放標準我們希望能夠嚴格的管制來制定好不然這民眾現在還是有很大的疑慮\n\n02:21.707 --> 02:41.910\n包委員因為我們這個SRF我們也設計了一個白皮書近期這個最後版本因為我們其實訂了之後很多的廠商也來反映說太嚴太嚴太嚴可是就是嚴他們有感表示說我們訂的法規有效所以目前的確經過那個溝通之後我們正式會再出來那這個就是一個\n\n02:42.630 --> 03:04.588\n一個依循的這個根據的樣本所以目前呢其實我們就希望說的確沒有辦法參與的我們感謝他那未來呢我們就是用更好的未來如果你好好做可以賺到錢可以往前走我們就鼓勵你要符合我們的環境的法規環境的法規來進行那如果不行的你還要我們輔導我們可以協助你那如果真的你不想做那只好請你離開\n\n03:05.809 --> 03:30.925\n對啊所以因為我最記得部長講喔你說台灣的SRF被汙名化那我說因為你的標準就是垃圾焚化爐的標準所以你不要讓它被汙名化當然要把這個原料還有它排放的標準一定要制定像人家先進國家歐美日韓這樣才能解除民眾心中的疑慮啊因為你都用垃圾廠的標準民眾當然不願意讓你進廠去設置嘛沒錯沒錯\n\n03:31.665 --> 03:56.664\n所以我希望說這部分還是要嚴格管控要真正讓SRF能夠落實那民眾當然才能夠放心嘛好謝謝謝謝委員的建議好那接下來就是也感謝部長上一次我們有到陽梅跟觀音考察垃圾處理場這部分問題那部長也有承諾在明年底會完成全台垃圾山這些裸露\n\n03:57.725 --> 04:10.919\n復土這些問題那是不是確定都這個進度在明年底前都可以完成包委員因為現在那個數字還沒有開始正式進行在準備要動下半年應該會比較快那也請委員到時候來監督那我因為當地這個\n\n04:12.861 --> 04:31.349\n這個場我們跟委員去過了我也請委員那個當地的里長因為里長感同身受啦所以我也邀請他說我們明年年底完成了之後請委員還有里長一起來見證所以我們是盯著很緊就盯著我們這個還管署一起來進行這個事情所以也請委員放心我們會積極來做\n\n04:32.809 --> 05:02.149\n對因為現在馬上又夏天到了每次這周邊的住戶對於這個社場因為夏天溫度越來越高這蚊影滋生這惡臭真的嚴重影響到他們的生活環境所以這個部分一到夏天這民眾真的是怨聲載道當然我們也說部長有允諾說明年底全部完成我們也希望說能夠照部長講的盡快把它完成因為這個民眾生活周邊的環境真的對他們影響很大\n\n05:02.509 --> 05:23.119\n好沒問題好那而且那時候我們有針對有提到垃圾清潔員休息室的整備還有購買相關車輛這部分因為我們也希望讓我們這些清潔隊員能夠有好的工作環境還有相關車輛的購置像山貓挖土雞啊\n\n05:23.679 --> 05:34.526\n或者轉運這些車輛那也可以提升垃圾處理的量能那賽斯環保局有提出相關的補助計畫那不知道這一部分的進度如何\n\n05:54.039 --> 06:15.468\n好那這個計畫提上來的時候也希望我們環境部部長來大力支持一下好沒問題沒問題謝謝好那接下來還有因為在上週我們河安會主委陳明禎主委有說非核家園延逸10年可減輕我國現在的供電壓力不知道部長對這部分有什麼看法\n\n06:16.088 --> 06:31.466\n因為我不是核能的主管機關啦齁但是我們會關注這個減碳的工具那的確核能是減碳是有一些用處的但是也跟委員報告因為我們也很努力的去看國際能源總署喔IEA他的報告其實如果要\n\n06:31.826 --> 06:50.993\n其實我們現在不能叫延役了啦要叫做重啟了齁那如果重啟的話第一個他的經費還蠻多的齁一個機組大概都是500億起跳的那第二個呢是他也要一個時間那以日本的經驗都是五到十年大概平均大概五六年左右所以基本上呢這個恐怕不是說\n\n06:51.813 --> 07:16.430\n一件一個這麼簡單按一個鍵就可以在那個他比買一台買一個房子還要很謹慎所以基本上目前我們是的確是說如果要淨零的話核能未來我可以估計說2030年新的核能如果起來的話真的有需求但是目前來看的話如果我們要去重啟的話基本上趕不上現在的這個時間的確有這個問題存在所以因為我們都有在開這個氣候變遷委員會\n\n07:22.173 --> 07:43.645\n那賴總統有一再強調2050淨零碳排這個目標不會改變那當然我們也說核安會主委有講這核電的研議確實能夠減輕它供電的壓力那是不是核電研議就像部長剛剛講其實核電研議其實對於我們2050淨零碳排這個目標是不是也有幫助\n\n07:44.065 --> 08:09.114\n而包吻是有幫助但是有但書但是他其實花的錢很多第二個是是不是因為我們沒有針對像日本一樣完整的去做這個斷層或是核電廠的細部的評估所以我自己在決定這個近鄰藍圖的時候我就發現說哇這樣其實我沒有辦法決定控制看得到的事實所以基本上我們目前近鄰的路徑是沒有核能存在的\n\n08:09.634 --> 08:26.148\n所以其實如果單就以環境部淨零碳排的這方面考量來講其實核電的研議對於淨零碳排是有幫助的嗎?對,報告委員環境部應該有兩個觀點第一個是對淨零碳排有幫助啊但是其實這個核電廠當時興建的時候並沒有環評這件事情\n\n08:29.210 --> 08:49.178\n就是說對於這件事情沒有一個完整的檢查跟社會的溝通所以如果說我們現在要重啟的話我認為社會會期待說和安會在管理的時候要更詳細那基本上依照我們對環評的了解或共識的話真的要花上不少的時間啦而且溝通的成本還有金額都非常的大\n\n08:49.838 --> 09:06.783\n好因為我們一直部長也知道我們其實一直都很支持我們近年碳排這個目標那當然我們覺得政府不是只要訂目標應該要有具體的方案務實去走去達成這個目標那現在河山演義這一部分問題也請部長環境部我們務實的來面對\n\n09:11.344 --> 09:38.499\n來了解說是不是對淨零碳排這一方面的幫助那也希望能夠朝著淨零碳排我們總統這個目標我覺得這個也是趨勢也是大家希望的淨零碳排2050那我們要去做我們當然要階段性不是說只目標定在那邊沒有具體的方案所以像我們這些有可能對於淨零碳排有幫助的這一部分我希望環境部部長也能夠務實的來面對\n\n09:39.980 --> 09:43.930\n好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝部長那大家一起努力謝謝好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.538,"end":8.642,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那請我們彭部長請部長圖委員好"},{"start":15.155,"end":37.702,"text":"那在去年9月的時候我們環境部有公布一個全台SRF的體檢報告那個時候我們看到報告上面有48家的SRF廠有12家是不合格的那不合格率有達25%那也經過了半年的輔導期不知道現在這輔導的成效如何請我們署長來回應"},{"start":39.462,"end":67.511,"text":"那現在就是我們的辦法發布之後那才有我們的法源去要求說他重新來檢視他的費薪書或者是程序可是後來看輔導結果目前好像還有30%到48%好像幾乎也快一半好像目前成效不是很好那有些業者他輔導之後他決定要退出那其中有7家是退場5家轉型"},{"start":69.381,"end":92.337,"text":"那其他的部分呢 是他們自己素質稱之不齊還是我們環境部這一方面沒有輔導好像有些你們的報告也說還有一些確實是成效不好那他們都退場嗎 不好都退場嗎我們也有在輔導說他願不願意來這個轉型那因為還是有些 因為現在我們的要求會比較高 譬如說空氣標準會加嚴"},{"start":93.978,"end":119.77,"text":"還有我們要做一些檢測那所以這些讓他們要投入比較多的成本那把這個環境可以把它顧好那品質也可以做好對啊因為這部分我們說我們前端原料管控一定要做好雖然那時候部長有答應說我們在後端排放氣體的標準我們要加鹽你後端加鹽可是前端這個原料管控也是很重要不然它裡面的原料沒有管控好"},{"start":120.27,"end":140.786,"text":"他到時候燒出來還是帶澳新這對民眾的健康一定有很大的問題而且目前部長應該也知道目前關於這SF廠他現在也還是在興建那現在我們也擔心說這個原料跟排放標準我們希望能夠嚴格的管制來制定好不然這民眾現在還是有很大的疑慮"},{"start":141.707,"end":161.91,"text":"包委員因為我們這個SRF我們也設計了一個白皮書近期這個最後版本因為我們其實訂了之後很多的廠商也來反映說太嚴太嚴太嚴可是就是嚴他們有感表示說我們訂的法規有效所以目前的確經過那個溝通之後我們正式會再出來那這個就是一個"},{"start":162.63,"end":184.588,"text":"一個依循的這個根據的樣本所以目前呢其實我們就希望說的確沒有辦法參與的我們感謝他那未來呢我們就是用更好的未來如果你好好做可以賺到錢可以往前走我們就鼓勵你要符合我們的環境的法規環境的法規來進行那如果不行的你還要我們輔導我們可以協助你那如果真的你不想做那只好請你離開"},{"start":185.809,"end":210.925,"text":"對啊 所以因為我最記得部長講喔你說台灣的SRF被汙名化那我說因為你的標準就是垃圾焚化爐的標準所以你不要讓它被汙名化當然要把這個原料還有它排放的標準一定要制定像人家先進國家歐美日韓這樣才能解除民眾心中的疑慮啊因為你都用垃圾廠的標準民眾當然不願意讓你進廠去設置嘛沒錯沒錯"},{"start":211.665,"end":236.664,"text":"所以我希望說這部分還是要嚴格管控要真正讓SRF能夠落實那民眾當然才能夠放心嘛好 謝謝 謝謝委員的建議好 那接下來就是也感謝部長上一次我們有到陽梅跟觀音考察垃圾處理場這部分問題那部長也有承諾在明年底會完成全台垃圾山這些裸露"},{"start":237.725,"end":250.919,"text":"復土這些問題那是不是確定都這個進度在明年底前都可以完成包委員因為現在那個數字還沒有開始正式進行在準備要動下半年應該會比較快那也請委員到時候來監督那我因為當地這個"},{"start":252.861,"end":271.349,"text":"這個場我們跟委員去過了我也請委員那個當地的里長因為里長感同身受啦所以我也邀請他說我們明年年底完成了之後請委員還有里長一起來見證所以我們是盯著很緊就盯著我們這個還管署一起來進行這個事情所以也請委員放心我們會積極來做"},{"start":272.809,"end":302.149,"text":"對 因為現在馬上又夏天到了每次這周邊的住戶對於這個社場因為夏天溫度越來越高這蚊影滋生 這惡臭真的嚴重影響到他們的生活環境所以這個部分一到夏天這民眾真的是怨聲載道當然我們也說部長有允諾說明年底全部完成我們也希望說能夠照部長講的盡快把它完成因為這個民眾生活周邊的環境真的對他們影響很大"},{"start":302.509,"end":323.119,"text":"好沒問題好那而且那時候我們有針對有提到垃圾清潔員休息室的整備還有購買相關車輛這部分因為我們也希望讓我們這些清潔隊員能夠有好的工作環境還有相關車輛的購置像山貓挖土雞啊"},{"start":323.679,"end":334.526,"text":"或者轉運這些車輛那也可以提升垃圾處理的量能那賽斯環保局有提出相關的補助計畫那不知道這一部分的進度如何"},{"start":354.039,"end":375.468,"text":"好那這個計畫提上來的時候也希望我們環境部部長來大力支持一下好沒問題沒問題謝謝好那接下來還有因為在上週我們河安會主委陳明禎主委有說非核家園延逸10年可減輕我國現在的供電壓力不知道部長對這部分有什麼看法"},{"start":376.088,"end":391.466,"text":"因為我不是核能的主管機關啦齁但是我們會關注這個減碳的工具那的確核能是減碳是有一些用處的但是也跟委員報告因為我們也很努力的去看國際能源總署喔IEA他的報告其實如果要"},{"start":391.826,"end":410.993,"text":"其實我們現在不能叫延役了啦要叫做重啟了齁那如果重啟的話第一個他的經費還蠻多的齁一個機組大概都是500億起跳的那第二個呢是他也要一個時間那以日本的經驗都是五到十年大概平均大概五六年左右所以基本上呢這個恐怕不是說"},{"start":411.813,"end":436.43,"text":"一件一個這麼簡單按一個鍵就可以在那個他比買一台買一個房子還要很謹慎所以基本上目前我們是的確是說如果要淨零的話核能未來我可以估計說2030年新的核能如果起來的話真的有需求但是目前來看的話如果我們要去重啟的話基本上趕不上現在的這個時間的確有這個問題存在所以因為我們都有在開這個氣候變遷委員會"},{"start":442.173,"end":463.645,"text":"那賴總統有一再強調2050淨零碳排這個目標不會改變那當然我們也說核安會主委有講這核電的研議確實能夠減輕它供電的壓力那是不是核電研議就像部長剛剛講其實核電研議其實對於我們2050淨零碳排這個目標是不是也有幫助"},{"start":464.065,"end":489.114,"text":"而包吻是有幫助但是有但書但是他其實花的錢很多第二個是是不是因為我們沒有針對像日本一樣完整的去做這個斷層或是核電廠的細部的評估所以我自己在決定這個近鄰藍圖的時候我就發現說哇這樣其實我沒有辦法決定控制看得到的事實所以基本上我們目前近鄰的路徑是沒有核能存在的"},{"start":489.634,"end":506.148,"text":"所以其實如果單就以環境部淨零碳排的這方面考量來講其實核電的研議對於淨零碳排是有幫助的嗎?對,報告委員環境部應該有兩個觀點第一個是對淨零碳排有幫助啊但是其實這個核電廠當時興建的時候並沒有環評這件事情"},{"start":509.21,"end":529.178,"text":"就是說對於這件事情沒有一個完整的檢查跟社會的溝通所以如果說我們現在要重啟的話我認為社會會期待說和安會在管理的時候要更詳細那基本上依照我們對環評的了解或共識的話真的要花上不少的時間啦而且溝通的成本還有金額都非常的大"},{"start":529.838,"end":546.783,"text":"好 因為我們一直部長也知道我們其實一直都很支持我們近年碳排這個目標那當然我們覺得政府不是只要訂目標應該要有具體的方案務實去走去達成這個目標那現在河山演義這一部分問題也請部長環境部我們務實的來面對"},{"start":551.344,"end":578.499,"text":"來了解說是不是對淨零碳排這一方面的幫助那也希望能夠朝著淨零碳排我們總統這個目標我覺得這個也是趨勢也是大家希望的淨零碳排2050那我們要去做我們當然要階段性不是說只目標定在那邊沒有具體的方案所以像我們這些有可能對於淨零碳排有幫助的這一部分我希望環境部部長也能夠務實的來面對"},{"start":579.98,"end":583.93,"text":"好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝部長那大家一起努力謝謝好謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":907,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（10時38分）謝謝主席，請我們彭部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：彭部長，去年9月的時候，我們環境部有公布一個全臺SRF體檢報告，那個時候我們看到報告上48家SRF廠中，有12家是不合格的，不合格率達25%，至今也經過了半年的輔導期，不知道現在輔導的成效如何？"],["彭部長啓明：請我們賴署長來回應。"],["涂委員權吉：好。"],["賴處長瑩瑩：現在我們的辦法發布之後，我們才有法源去要求它重新檢視它的廢清書或者是程序。"],["涂委員權吉：可是後來看了輔導結果，好像還有30%到40%，幾乎也快一半，目前好像成效不是很好？"],["賴處長瑩瑩：有些業者輔導之後，決定要退出，其中7家退場、5家轉型。"],["涂委員權吉：其他的部分呢？是他們自己素質參差不齊，還是我們環境部這一方面沒有輔導好？你們的報告也說有些確實是成效不好，那他們都退場了嗎？"],["賴處長瑩瑩：我們也有輔導他們看願不願意轉型，因為現在我們的要求會比較高，譬如說空氣標準會加嚴，還有我們要做一些檢測，所以這些都會讓他們投入比較多的成本，如此才能把這個環境可以顧好，品質也可以做好。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！對這部分我們說前端原料管控一定要做好，雖然那時候部長有答應在後端排放氣體的標準要加嚴，你對後端加嚴，可是前端這個原料管控也是很重要，不然它裡面的原料沒有管控好，到時候燒出來的還是戴奧辛，這對民眾的健康一定會造成很大的問題，而且部長應該也知道，目前觀音這個SRF廠還是在興建中，現在我們也擔心這個原料跟排放標準，我們希望能夠訂定嚴格的管制標準，不然民眾還是會有很大的疑慮。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們對SRF也設計了一個白皮書，近期會有最後版本。其實在我們訂了之後，有很多廠商反映說太嚴了，可是就是嚴到讓他們有感，表示我們訂的法規有效，所以目前的確有經過溝通，之後我們會正式提出來，這就是一個依循的根據、樣本。目前我們就是希望，真的沒有辦法參與的，我們感謝他，未來我們就是用更好的，未來如果你好好做、可以賺到錢、可以往前走，我們就鼓勵你要符合我們環境的法規來進行；如果不行的，你還要我們輔導，我們可以協助你；如果你真的不想做，就只好請你離開。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！我最記得部長有講過臺灣的SRF被污名化，我說因為你的標準就是垃圾焚化爐的標準，所以你不要讓它被污名化，當然對原料還有排放的標準一定要有像歐美、日、韓等先進國家這樣的規定，才能解除民眾心中的疑慮，不然你都用垃圾場的標準，民眾當然不願意讓你去設置嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我希望對這部分還是要嚴格管控，要真正讓SRF能夠落實，這樣民眾才能夠放心。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員的建議。"],["涂委員權吉：接下來也感謝部長，上一次，我們有到楊梅跟觀音考察垃圾處理場這部分的問題，部長也有承諾在明年底會完成全臺垃圾山這些裸露垃圾、覆土問題的處理，那是不是確定在明年底以前可以完成進度？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，現在那個數字還沒有開始正式進行，正在準備要動，下半年應該會比較快，請委員到時候來監督。我們跟委員有去過當地這個場，我也有請當地的里長，因為里長感同身受，所以我也邀請他，在我們明年年底完成了之後，請委員還有里長一起來見證。我們盯得很緊，盯著我們的環管署一起來進行這個事情，所以也請委員放心，我們會積極來做。"],["涂委員權吉：對，現在馬上又要到夏天了，因為夏天溫度越來越高，垃圾場蚊蠅滋生還有惡臭真的嚴重影響到周邊住戶的生活環境，所以一到夏天，民眾真的是怨聲載道，當然部長有允諾在明年底全部完成，我們也希望能夠照部長講的來儘快把它完成，因為這個真的對生活在周邊的民眾影響很大。"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒有問題，謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：而且那時候我們有提到垃圾清潔員休息室的整備還有購買相關車輛這個部分，因為我們也希望讓這些清潔隊員能夠有好的工作環境，還有相關車輛的購置，像山貓、挖土機或者轉運車輛，也可以提升垃圾處理的量能，上一次環保局有提出相關的補助計畫，這一部分的進度如何？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，環保局的確有跟我們提出這樣的想法，他們只有告訴我一個大概，就像委員提的這樣，如果他們真的有需求，就可以送申請書來，我們如果預算還有餘裕的話，我們就會儘快處理，但是他們現在還沒有提出申請。"],["涂委員權吉：好，在這個計畫提上來的時候，也希望我們環境部部長來大力支持一下。"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒問題，謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：接下來還有一個問題，上週核安會陳明真主委有說非核家園延役10年可減輕我國現在的供電壓力，部長對這一部分有什麼看法？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我不是核能的主管機關，但是我們會關注減碳的工具。的確核能對減碳是有一些用處的，但是也跟委員報告，我們很努力去看國際能源總署（IEA）的報告，其實我們現在不能叫延役了，要叫做重啟。如果重啟的話，第一個它的經費還滿多的，一個機組大概都是500億起跳；第二個，它也要一個時間，以日本的經驗都是5到10年，平均大概5、6年左右，基本上，這個恐怕不是只要按一個鍵這麼簡單，這比買一個房子還要更謹慎。基本上，目前我們如果要淨零，我可以估計在2030年新的核能如果起來的話，真的有需求，但是以目前來看，如果我們要去重啟，基本上趕不上現在的這個時間，的確有這個問題存在。"],["涂委員權吉：我們都有在開氣候變遷委員會，賴總統也一再強調2050淨零碳排這個目標不會改變，核安會主委有講核電延役確實能夠減輕供電的壓力，是不是就像部長剛剛講的，其實核電延役對我們2050淨零碳排這個目標也有幫助？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這是有幫助的，但是有但書，其實它花的錢很多；第二個，因為我們沒有像日本一樣完整去做斷層或是核電廠的細部評估，所以我自己在決定這個淨零藍圖的時候，我就發現這樣其實我沒有辦法決定、控制看得到的事實，所以基本上我們目前淨零的路徑是沒有核能存在的。"],["涂委員權吉：所以如果單就環境部對淨零碳排這方面的考量來講，其實核電的延役對於淨零碳排是有幫助的？"],["彭部長啓明：對，報告委員，環境部應該有兩個觀點，第一個是現在對淨零碳排有幫助，但是其實這個核電廠在當時興建的時候並沒有環評這件事情，也就是說，對於這件事情沒有一個完整的檢查還有跟社會的溝通，所以如果我們現在要重啟的話，我認為社會會期待核安會在管理的時候要更詳細，基本上，依照我們對環評的了解或共識，真的要花上不少的時間，而且溝通的成本還有金額都非常大。"],["涂委員權吉：部長也知道我們其實一直都很支持淨零碳排這個目標，我們覺得政府不是只要定目標，應該要有具體的方案，務實的去達成這個目標。關於核三延役這個問題，也請環境部務實的來面對，來了解是不是對淨零碳排這方面有幫助，也希望能夠朝著我們總統的淨零碳排這個目標走，我覺得這是一個趨勢，也是大家所希望的。我們要去做2050淨零碳排，我們當然要階段性，並不是只把目標定在那邊而沒有具體的方案。像這些可能對於淨零碳排有幫助的部分，我希望環境部部長也能夠務實的來面對。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["涂委員權吉：謝謝部長，那大家一起努力。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在我們休息10分鐘。","休息（10時48分）","繼續開會（10時58分）"],["主席（林委員月琴代）：現在繼續開會。","我們請牛委員煦庭發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-8","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","牛煦庭","林淑芬","葉元之","王正旭","劉書彬","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃秀芳","楊曜","陳瑩","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-04-28"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00003"}}}