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\"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 510.633, \"end\": 510.813, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 510.813, \"end\": 511.353, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 511.353, \"end\": 511.473, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 511.473, \"end\": 512.914, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 512.914, \"end\": 513.054, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"喜\", \"start\": 513.054, \"end\": 513.174, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 513.174, \"end\": 513.334, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 513.334, \"end\": 513.854, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 513.854, \"end\": 514.114, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 514.114, \"end\": 514.294, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 514.294, \"end\": 514.414, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 514.414, \"end\": 514.434, \"score\": 0.413}, {\"word\": \"來\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,314 --> 00:00:28,716\n發言謝謝主席彭部長有請有請彭部長女委員好部長早安今天要跟你討論一下這個噪音防治的問題大概分成兩個部分因為這個跟人民生活最貼近有關的污染源除了空氣這大家常常講之外恐怕噪音是一個近期尤其在都會地帶非常擾民的一個大的問題\n\n2\n00:00:29,637 --> 00:00:53,075\n那它分成兩個主要的來源第一個當然就是所謂的公寓大廈內部的鄰居之間的這種摩擦這種噪音這種高低樓層等等的這是一個那另外一個當然是噪音車那我們就分別來做探討第一個想請教一下有關於近鄰噪音的部分部長你大概知道說有關於這種這種鄰居之間的噪音的處理現在是用哪一套法規哪一套規則在做在做\n\n3\n00:00:54,156 --> 00:01:14,557\n管理嗎對社會秩序維護法阿包委因為我以前也檢舉過你也檢舉過我檢舉過例如說一樓在營業的然後他半夜在唱KTV然後那大概就是環保局第一個是看狀況有的是警察局會來有的是環保局會來插盒因為他還有低頻噪音等等不是啊你自己做過檢舉人齁\n\n4\n00:01:15,618 --> 00:01:43,138\n然後你回答也非常快速表現概念非常清楚也就是說實務上在這種鄰居啊大樓的這種噪音你很快的回答是社會秩序維護法但你知不知道因為前一陣子上個禮拜我們內政委員會才在審查社會秩序維護法的一些修正案你知不知道警政署啊實際上在執行這一套法規的時候對於現在這一套遊戲規則的評價是什麼覺得很老民老警察對警察來講是負擔你知不知道他實際上的執行率是多少\n\n5\n00:01:43,858 --> 00:01:58,280\n應該很低非常低對不對所以你們政府部門彼此之間也知道就是說用社會秩序維護法來解決鄰居之間的噪音這個恐怕都很難成案原因是什麼其實最重要是噪音的本身一定要監測啦所以我記得我那時候檢舉的時候\n\n6\n00:01:59,421 --> 00:02:23,086\n例如說他12點還在唱KTV影響到聲音都傳上來然後沒辦法睡覺那當然後來就是講好說我們會通報他環保局的這個稽查人力會來我們那個地方實際上是量或去查核然後就會開罰那其實應該是地方的環保局的人力不過我也跟委員報告因為台北市整個稽查人力就100多個而已所以其實就是人力不夠啦\n\n7\n00:02:23,786 --> 00:02:52,865\n他現在有其實幾個問題啦就持續性嘛跟良策的問題簡單來講就是沒有儀器也沒有標準啦簡單來講是這樣因為社會秩序維護法主管當然就是警政署就是警察去處理但大部分警察絕對不會有儀器也沒有辦法界定標準那更更因為現在這個都會區公寓大廈很多有些還用公寓大廈你還要等管委會那基本上大廈裡面的管委會管委會還沒有公權力所以沒有儀器沒有標準沒有公權力就是用社會秩序維護法來處理大樓噪音的一個困難之處\n\n8\n00:02:53,986 --> 00:03:13,705\n那很多時候我們那時候在內政委員會在討論這個法案的修正的時候很多人都講說其實環境部應該要多一點角色啊比如說噪音管制法你只是把這個東西丟到社會秩序維護法結果它罰則不夠重然後又沒有辦法量測然後也沒有辦法執行那它其實實務上形成了法律的漏洞那從環境部的角度有沒有什麼方法可以把這個漏洞給補起來\n\n9\n00:03:14,586 --> 00:03:39,788\n基本上我那時候處理的情況到最後我跟委員分享一下基本上透過我們的環保的集合人力那當然那個其實現在很多的縣市做得很好啦我去的時候大概隔天就會來查了我打1999就來查了然後另外一個是我也打到110去報案警察也來查了他們有分工啦有分工啊這個其實這兩個做就有很顯著嚇阻的效果我\n\n10\n00:03:41,549 --> 00:04:02,666\n這就本席的了解跟我們常說收收到選民成型的數量顯然並沒有因為這一套機制的運轉而有顯著的改善喔這問題反而還是很多還是很多啦因為人力還是不夠啦那怎麼辦呢沒有沒關係我們先把問題打開我一向都會給行政機關一點時間去做思考是不是在噪音管制法的部分也要有一些\n\n11\n00:04:03,306 --> 00:04:28,232\n加強或者是把法規補上這是一種可能另外一種可能是環境部的角度你可以提供地方基層在執法的時候你提供什麼樣的工具也好人力的補充也好等等更好的一個後勤資源這也是一種解決的方法這我要求環境部我給你一個月的時間你稍微去思考一下然後你們內部專業考量一下必要的時候徵詢一下警政署的意見好大家去想一下怎麼把機制完善可以嗎好這是有關大樓噪音的部分第二個是噪音車啊\n\n12\n00:04:29,192 --> 00:04:50,666\n這個環境部現在新制嘛比如說排氣管等等要納管等等現在上路你們覺得執行的狀況怎麼樣目前最有效的是這個噪音的偵測的這個開閥的設備對現在有移動式的這個科技執法嘛對不對或多或少都有效果然後各個縣市都非常的希望環境部多補充相關的經費提供更多套的設備現在預算有增編嗎\n\n13\n00:04:53,028 --> 00:05:18,305\n呃這個部分在爭取當中啦希望爭取公共建設的經費大概其實因為一台大概一百多萬嘛一台一百多萬沒錯我們在爭取當中啦好這個部分我希望環境部這個地方要大力的給地方支持啦或者是地方也許未來財務法修正他也會多編經費都好只要可以解決人民生活都好但我還是要從法規面的角度來討論這件事情啦就是說即便有抓到以現行的狀況罰個三千六你要回來再檢查\n\n14\n00:05:19,085 --> 00:05:43,693\n然後很多東西不了了之你更不用講他有很多這個上有政策下有對策我想在徹底的提高罰則並且用最嚴重的手法來處分恐怕是有其必要的我剛剛看了一下大概這個立法院現在有九個提案跟這個噪音管制法的修正跟噪音車相關的橫跨不同的黨派民眾黨民進黨國民黨都有那除了普遍的提高罰金的額度之外有比較重像本席的提案就直接說要扣牌嘛\n\n15\n00:05:44,313 --> 00:06:01,075\n如果說你被抓到不管你是用移動式的或怎麼樣你抓到確定有問題也超標了你就是直接扣牌你要不要用這種雷力風行的方式來徹底把這個噪音車的問題給處理掉我現在請教一下環境部針對噪音管制法針對噪音車提高罰則甚至到扣牌的官方的意見\n\n16\n00:06:02,317 --> 00:06:28,976\n我的個性是我一定嚴格處理的但是執行上我必須考慮到現實的執行有沒有辦法做得到因為我們也遭遇到很多的車子就是車主他來complain說那個噪音的標準的設備可能沒有那麼完善其實我們也遇到這樣的問題所以可能要再一段時間把它確定開閥的這個角度有沒有辦法做得到甚至有沒有這個社會的溝通還要一段時間\n\n17\n00:06:29,977 --> 00:06:54,127\n所以我個人是主張是強力的因為這個噪音就是讓民眾這個睡不好其實也吃不好其實是非常惱迷是很討厭的事情嘛這部長自己有檢舉過的經驗大家就會比較放心因為表示你可以感同身受但本節目意思是講這很多不同委員的版本其實你調高罰則他是有裁量空間的嘛也就是說我最嚴重的時候我可以扣牌或者說我可以重罰好幾萬等等但你上下限的距離拉開一點\n\n18\n00:06:55,128 --> 00:07:09,269\n給你環境部更多的裁量空間我想應該就沒有問題嘛因為你實務上你那把界線要劃在哪裡你的相關的這個收證的設備啊實務上的溝通狀況它其實可以是可以調整的但是你如果不把法律的空間撐出來加大\n\n19\n00:07:10,490 --> 00:07:28,160\n你環境稽查跟警察在第一線的裁量的權力的話那恐怕還是會無法遏制嘛我這樣講的話會不會比較部長比較能夠接受對這個謝謝委員的這個支持啦如果我們朝這樣因為台灣還是要更安寧啦這個也是我們的目標好那部長會不會希望這個法案盡速的來排審來進入審查呃我們還沒有提對因為我們還你們會環境部會提對岸嗎對對就是說針對噪音車的部分\n\n20\n00:07:39,335 --> 00:08:04,786\n我們來思考一下我們可以來配合委員會思考一下因為這個問題比大樓噪音的問題我覺得還更嚴重就是說它造成大家的破壞安寧等等所以大家對於修法嚴打噪音車這件事是有高度期待的那你要多少時間你要準備的話可能一個月其實委員我們自己關注一個就是說很多大樓在興建工程其實也造成很不舒服所以這個我們希望整個統一來看這個事情一個月可以嗎\n\n21\n00:08:05,186 --> 00:08:34,434\n一樣既然都我剛剛講你大樓內部的針對社會法這一段你有一個月的時間那噪音社會也就一個月好不好針對現在都會區大家關心的噪音問題一個月之內要有明確的說法如果你明確你也許有一個這個官方的版本也很好就可以加速大家的討論但如果沒有我本期是個人是希望雖然我不是衛生委員會的委員但我還希望噪音管制法可以盡速來進行排案跟這個審查的部分可以嗎好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝牛喜廷委員發言那接下來\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n314\t28716\t發言謝謝主席 彭部長有請有請彭部長女委員好部長早安今天要跟你討論一下這個噪音防治的問題大概分成兩個部分因為這個跟人民生活最貼近有關的污染源除了空氣這大家常常講之外恐怕噪音是一個近期尤其在都會地帶非常擾民的一個大的問題\n29637\t53075\t那它分成兩個主要的來源第一個當然就是所謂的公寓大廈內部的鄰居之間的這種摩擦這種噪音這種高低樓層等等的這是一個那另外一個當然是噪音車那我們就分別來做探討第一個想請教一下有關於近鄰噪音的部分部長你大概知道說有關於這種這種鄰居之間的噪音的處理現在是用哪一套法規哪一套規則在做在做\n54156\t74557\t管理嗎對 社會秩序維護法阿包委 因為我以前也檢舉過你也檢舉過我檢舉過 例如說一樓在營業的然後他半夜在唱KTV然後那大概就是環保局第一個是看狀況有的是警察局會來有的是環保局會來插盒因為他還有低頻噪音等等不是啊 你自己做過檢舉人齁\n75618\t103138\t然後你回答也非常快速表現概念非常清楚也就是說實務上在這種鄰居啊大樓的這種噪音你很快的回答是社會秩序維護法但你知不知道因為前一陣子上個禮拜我們內政委員會才在審查社會秩序維護法的一些修正案你知不知道警政署啊實際上在執行這一套法規的時候對於現在這一套遊戲規則的評價是什麼覺得很老民老警察對警察來講是負擔你知不知道他實際上的執行率是多少\n103858\t118280\t應該很低非常低對不對所以你們政府部門彼此之間也知道就是說用社會秩序維護法來解決鄰居之間的噪音這個恐怕都很難成案原因是什麼其實最重要是噪音的本身一定要監測啦所以我記得我那時候檢舉的時候\n119421\t143086\t例如說他12點還在唱KTV 影響到聲音都傳上來 然後沒辦法睡覺那當然後來就是講好說 我們會通報他環保局的這個稽查人力會來我們那個地方實際上是量或去查核 然後就會開罰那其實應該是地方的環保局的人力不過我也跟委員報告 因為台北市整個稽查人力就100多個而已所以其實就是人力不夠啦\n143786\t172865\t他現在有其實幾個問題啦就持續性嘛跟良策的問題簡單來講就是沒有儀器也沒有標準啦簡單來講是這樣因為社會秩序維護法主管當然就是警政署就是警察去處理但大部分警察絕對不會有儀器也沒有辦法界定標準那更更因為現在這個都會區公寓大廈很多有些還用公寓大廈你還要等管委會那基本上大廈裡面的管委會管委會還沒有公權力所以沒有儀器沒有標準沒有公權力就是用社會秩序維護法來處理大樓噪音的一個困難之處\n173986\t193705\t那很多時候我們那時候在內政委員會在討論這個法案的修正的時候很多人都講說其實環境部應該要多一點角色啊比如說噪音管制法你只是把這個東西丟到社會秩序維護法結果它罰則不夠重然後又沒有辦法量測然後也沒有辦法執行那它其實實務上形成了法律的漏洞那從環境部的角度有沒有什麼方法可以把這個漏洞給補起來\n194586\t219788\t基本上我那時候處理的情況到最後我跟委員分享一下基本上透過我們的環保的集合人力那當然那個其實現在很多的縣市做得很好啦我去的時候大概隔天就會來查了我打1999就來查了然後另外一個是我也打到110去報案警察也來查了他們有分工啦有分工啊這個其實這兩個做就有很顯著嚇阻的效果我\n221549\t242666\t這就本席的了解跟我們常說收收到選民成型的數量顯然並沒有因為這一套機制的運轉而有顯著的改善喔這問題反而還是很多還是很多啦因為人力還是不夠啦那怎麼辦呢沒有沒關係我們先把問題打開我一向都會給行政機關一點時間去做思考是不是在噪音管制法的部分也要有一些\n243306\t268232\t加強或者是把法規補上這是一種可能另外一種可能是環境部的角度你可以提供地方基層在執法的時候你提供什麼樣的工具也好人力的補充也好等等更好的一個後勤資源這也是一種解決的方法這我要求環境部我給你一個月的時間你稍微去思考一下然後你們內部專業考量一下必要的時候徵詢一下警政署的意見好大家去想一下怎麼把機制完善可以嗎好這是有關大樓噪音的部分第二個是噪音車啊\n269192\t290666\t這個環境部現在新制嘛比如說排氣管等等要納管等等現在上路你們覺得執行的狀況怎麼樣目前最有效的是這個噪音的偵測的這個開閥的設備對現在有移動式的這個科技執法嘛對不對或多或少都有效果然後各個縣市都非常的希望環境部多補充相關的經費提供更多套的設備現在預算有增編嗎\n293028\t318305\t呃這個部分在爭取當中啦希望爭取公共建設的經費大概其實因為一台大概一百多萬嘛一台一百多萬沒錯我們在爭取當中啦好這個部分我希望環境部這個地方要大力的給地方支持啦或者是地方也許未來財務法修正他也會多編經費都好只要可以解決人民生活都好但我還是要從法規面的角度來討論這件事情啦就是說即便有抓到以現行的狀況罰個三千六你要回來再檢查\n319085\t343693\t然後很多東西不了了之你更不用講他有很多這個上有政策下有對策我想在徹底的提高罰則並且用最嚴重的手法來處分恐怕是有其必要的我剛剛看了一下大概這個立法院現在有九個提案跟這個噪音管制法的修正跟噪音車相關的橫跨不同的黨派民眾黨民進黨國民黨都有那除了普遍的提高罰金的額度之外有比較重像本席的提案就直接說要扣牌嘛\n344313\t361075\t如果說你被抓到不管你是用移動式的或怎麼樣你抓到確定有問題也超標了你就是直接扣牌你要不要用這種雷力風行的方式來徹底把這個噪音車的問題給處理掉我現在請教一下環境部針對噪音管制法針對噪音車提高罰則甚至到扣牌的官方的意見\n362317\t388976\t我的個性是我一定嚴格處理的但是執行上我必須考慮到現實的執行有沒有辦法做得到因為我們也遭遇到很多的車子就是車主他來complain說那個噪音的標準的設備可能沒有那麼完善其實我們也遇到這樣的問題所以可能要再一段時間把它確定開閥的這個角度有沒有辦法做得到甚至有沒有這個社會的溝通還要一段時間\n389977\t414127\t所以我個人是主張是強力的因為這個噪音就是讓民眾這個睡不好其實也吃不好其實是非常惱迷是很討厭的事情嘛這部長自己有檢舉過的經驗大家就會比較放心因為表示你可以感同身受但本節目意思是講這很多不同委員的版本其實你調高罰則他是有裁量空間的嘛也就是說我最嚴重的時候我可以扣牌或者說我可以重罰好幾萬等等但你上下限的距離拉開一點\n415128\t429269\t給你環境部更多的裁量空間我想應該就沒有問題嘛因為你實務上你那把界線要劃在哪裡你的相關的這個收證的設備啊實務上的溝通狀況它其實可以是可以調整的但是你如果不把法律的空間撐出來加大\n430490\t448160\t你環境稽查跟警察在第一線的裁量的權力的話那恐怕還是會無法遏制嘛我這樣講的話會不會比較部長比較能夠接受對這個謝謝委員的這個支持啦如果我們朝這樣因為台灣還是要更安寧啦這個也是我們的目標好那部長會不會希望這個法案盡速的來排審來進入審查呃我們還沒有提對因為我們還你們會環境部會提對岸嗎對對就是說針對噪音車的部分\n459335\t484786\t我們來思考一下我們可以來配合委員會思考一下因為這個問題比大樓噪音的問題我覺得還更嚴重就是說它造成大家的破壞安寧等等所以大家對於修法嚴打噪音車這件事是有高度期待的那你要多少時間你要準備的話可能一個月其實委員我們自己關注一個就是說很多大樓在興建工程其實也造成很不舒服所以這個我們希望整個統一來看這個事情一個月可以嗎\n485186\t514434\t一樣 既然都我剛剛講你大樓內部的針對社會法這一段你有一個月的時間那噪音社會也就一個月好不好針對現在都會區大家關心的噪音問題一個月之內要有明確的說法如果你明確你也許有一個這個官方的版本也很好就可以加速大家的討論但如果沒有我本期是個人是希望雖然我不是衛生委員會的委員但我還希望噪音管制法可以盡速來進行排案跟這個審查的部分可以嗎好 謝謝部長謝謝好 謝謝牛喜廷委員發言那接下來\n","txt":"發言謝謝主席 彭部長有請有請彭部長女委員好部長早安今天要跟你討論一下這個噪音防治的問題大概分成兩個部分因為這個跟人民生活最貼近有關的污染源除了空氣這大家常常講之外恐怕噪音是一個近期尤其在都會地帶非常擾民的一個大的問題\n那它分成兩個主要的來源第一個當然就是所謂的公寓大廈內部的鄰居之間的這種摩擦這種噪音這種高低樓層等等的這是一個那另外一個當然是噪音車那我們就分別來做探討第一個想請教一下有關於近鄰噪音的部分部長你大概知道說有關於這種這種鄰居之間的噪音的處理現在是用哪一套法規哪一套規則在做在做\n管理嗎對 社會秩序維護法阿包委 因為我以前也檢舉過你也檢舉過我檢舉過 例如說一樓在營業的然後他半夜在唱KTV然後那大概就是環保局第一個是看狀況有的是警察局會來有的是環保局會來插盒因為他還有低頻噪音等等不是啊 你自己做過檢舉人齁\n然後你回答也非常快速表現概念非常清楚也就是說實務上在這種鄰居啊大樓的這種噪音你很快的回答是社會秩序維護法但你知不知道因為前一陣子上個禮拜我們內政委員會才在審查社會秩序維護法的一些修正案你知不知道警政署啊實際上在執行這一套法規的時候對於現在這一套遊戲規則的評價是什麼覺得很老民老警察對警察來講是負擔你知不知道他實際上的執行率是多少\n應該很低非常低對不對所以你們政府部門彼此之間也知道就是說用社會秩序維護法來解決鄰居之間的噪音這個恐怕都很難成案原因是什麼其實最重要是噪音的本身一定要監測啦所以我記得我那時候檢舉的時候\n例如說他12點還在唱KTV 影響到聲音都傳上來 然後沒辦法睡覺那當然後來就是講好說 我們會通報他環保局的這個稽查人力會來我們那個地方實際上是量或去查核 然後就會開罰那其實應該是地方的環保局的人力不過我也跟委員報告 因為台北市整個稽查人力就100多個而已所以其實就是人力不夠啦\n他現在有其實幾個問題啦就持續性嘛跟良策的問題簡單來講就是沒有儀器也沒有標準啦簡單來講是這樣因為社會秩序維護法主管當然就是警政署就是警察去處理但大部分警察絕對不會有儀器也沒有辦法界定標準那更更因為現在這個都會區公寓大廈很多有些還用公寓大廈你還要等管委會那基本上大廈裡面的管委會管委會還沒有公權力所以沒有儀器沒有標準沒有公權力就是用社會秩序維護法來處理大樓噪音的一個困難之處\n那很多時候我們那時候在內政委員會在討論這個法案的修正的時候很多人都講說其實環境部應該要多一點角色啊比如說噪音管制法你只是把這個東西丟到社會秩序維護法結果它罰則不夠重然後又沒有辦法量測然後也沒有辦法執行那它其實實務上形成了法律的漏洞那從環境部的角度有沒有什麼方法可以把這個漏洞給補起來\n基本上我那時候處理的情況到最後我跟委員分享一下基本上透過我們的環保的集合人力那當然那個其實現在很多的縣市做得很好啦我去的時候大概隔天就會來查了我打1999就來查了然後另外一個是我也打到110去報案警察也來查了他們有分工啦有分工啊這個其實這兩個做就有很顯著嚇阻的效果我\n這就本席的了解跟我們常說收收到選民成型的數量顯然並沒有因為這一套機制的運轉而有顯著的改善喔這問題反而還是很多還是很多啦因為人力還是不夠啦那怎麼辦呢沒有沒關係我們先把問題打開我一向都會給行政機關一點時間去做思考是不是在噪音管制法的部分也要有一些\n加強或者是把法規補上這是一種可能另外一種可能是環境部的角度你可以提供地方基層在執法的時候你提供什麼樣的工具也好人力的補充也好等等更好的一個後勤資源這也是一種解決的方法這我要求環境部我給你一個月的時間你稍微去思考一下然後你們內部專業考量一下必要的時候徵詢一下警政署的意見好大家去想一下怎麼把機制完善可以嗎好這是有關大樓噪音的部分第二個是噪音車啊\n這個環境部現在新制嘛比如說排氣管等等要納管等等現在上路你們覺得執行的狀況怎麼樣目前最有效的是這個噪音的偵測的這個開閥的設備對現在有移動式的這個科技執法嘛對不對或多或少都有效果然後各個縣市都非常的希望環境部多補充相關的經費提供更多套的設備現在預算有增編嗎\n呃這個部分在爭取當中啦希望爭取公共建設的經費大概其實因為一台大概一百多萬嘛一台一百多萬沒錯我們在爭取當中啦好這個部分我希望環境部這個地方要大力的給地方支持啦或者是地方也許未來財務法修正他也會多編經費都好只要可以解決人民生活都好但我還是要從法規面的角度來討論這件事情啦就是說即便有抓到以現行的狀況罰個三千六你要回來再檢查\n然後很多東西不了了之你更不用講他有很多這個上有政策下有對策我想在徹底的提高罰則並且用最嚴重的手法來處分恐怕是有其必要的我剛剛看了一下大概這個立法院現在有九個提案跟這個噪音管制法的修正跟噪音車相關的橫跨不同的黨派民眾黨民進黨國民黨都有那除了普遍的提高罰金的額度之外有比較重像本席的提案就直接說要扣牌嘛\n如果說你被抓到不管你是用移動式的或怎麼樣你抓到確定有問題也超標了你就是直接扣牌你要不要用這種雷力風行的方式來徹底把這個噪音車的問題給處理掉我現在請教一下環境部針對噪音管制法針對噪音車提高罰則甚至到扣牌的官方的意見\n我的個性是我一定嚴格處理的但是執行上我必須考慮到現實的執行有沒有辦法做得到因為我們也遭遇到很多的車子就是車主他來complain說那個噪音的標準的設備可能沒有那麼完善其實我們也遇到這樣的問題所以可能要再一段時間把它確定開閥的這個角度有沒有辦法做得到甚至有沒有這個社會的溝通還要一段時間\n所以我個人是主張是強力的因為這個噪音就是讓民眾這個睡不好其實也吃不好其實是非常惱迷是很討厭的事情嘛這部長自己有檢舉過的經驗大家就會比較放心因為表示你可以感同身受但本節目意思是講這很多不同委員的版本其實你調高罰則他是有裁量空間的嘛也就是說我最嚴重的時候我可以扣牌或者說我可以重罰好幾萬等等但你上下限的距離拉開一點\n給你環境部更多的裁量空間我想應該就沒有問題嘛因為你實務上你那把界線要劃在哪裡你的相關的這個收證的設備啊實務上的溝通狀況它其實可以是可以調整的但是你如果不把法律的空間撐出來加大\n你環境稽查跟警察在第一線的裁量的權力的話那恐怕還是會無法遏制嘛我這樣講的話會不會比較部長比較能夠接受對這個謝謝委員的這個支持啦如果我們朝這樣因為台灣還是要更安寧啦這個也是我們的目標好那部長會不會希望這個法案盡速的來排審來進入審查呃我們還沒有提對因為我們還你們會環境部會提對岸嗎對對就是說針對噪音車的部分\n我們來思考一下我們可以來配合委員會思考一下因為這個問題比大樓噪音的問題我覺得還更嚴重就是說它造成大家的破壞安寧等等所以大家對於修法嚴打噪音車這件事是有高度期待的那你要多少時間你要準備的話可能一個月其實委員我們自己關注一個就是說很多大樓在興建工程其實也造成很不舒服所以這個我們希望整個統一來看這個事情一個月可以嗎\n一樣 既然都我剛剛講你大樓內部的針對社會法這一段你有一個月的時間那噪音社會也就一個月好不好針對現在都會區大家關心的噪音問題一個月之內要有明確的說法如果你明確你也許有一個這個官方的版本也很好就可以加速大家的討論但如果沒有我本期是個人是希望雖然我不是衛生委員會的委員但我還希望噪音管制法可以盡速來進行排案跟這個審查的部分可以嗎好 謝謝部長謝謝好 謝謝牛喜廷委員發言那接下來\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.314 --> 00:28.716\n發言謝謝主席彭部長有請有請彭部長女委員好部長早安今天要跟你討論一下這個噪音防治的問題大概分成兩個部分因為這個跟人民生活最貼近有關的污染源除了空氣這大家常常講之外恐怕噪音是一個近期尤其在都會地帶非常擾民的一個大的問題\n\n00:29.637 --> 00:53.075\n那它分成兩個主要的來源第一個當然就是所謂的公寓大廈內部的鄰居之間的這種摩擦這種噪音這種高低樓層等等的這是一個那另外一個當然是噪音車那我們就分別來做探討第一個想請教一下有關於近鄰噪音的部分部長你大概知道說有關於這種這種鄰居之間的噪音的處理現在是用哪一套法規哪一套規則在做在做\n\n00:54.156 --> 01:14.557\n管理嗎對社會秩序維護法阿包委因為我以前也檢舉過你也檢舉過我檢舉過例如說一樓在營業的然後他半夜在唱KTV然後那大概就是環保局第一個是看狀況有的是警察局會來有的是環保局會來插盒因為他還有低頻噪音等等不是啊你自己做過檢舉人齁\n\n01:15.618 --> 01:43.138\n然後你回答也非常快速表現概念非常清楚也就是說實務上在這種鄰居啊大樓的這種噪音你很快的回答是社會秩序維護法但你知不知道因為前一陣子上個禮拜我們內政委員會才在審查社會秩序維護法的一些修正案你知不知道警政署啊實際上在執行這一套法規的時候對於現在這一套遊戲規則的評價是什麼覺得很老民老警察對警察來講是負擔你知不知道他實際上的執行率是多少\n\n01:43.858 --> 01:58.280\n應該很低非常低對不對所以你們政府部門彼此之間也知道就是說用社會秩序維護法來解決鄰居之間的噪音這個恐怕都很難成案原因是什麼其實最重要是噪音的本身一定要監測啦所以我記得我那時候檢舉的時候\n\n01:59.421 --> 02:23.086\n例如說他12點還在唱KTV影響到聲音都傳上來然後沒辦法睡覺那當然後來就是講好說我們會通報他環保局的這個稽查人力會來我們那個地方實際上是量或去查核然後就會開罰那其實應該是地方的環保局的人力不過我也跟委員報告因為台北市整個稽查人力就100多個而已所以其實就是人力不夠啦\n\n02:23.786 --> 02:52.865\n他現在有其實幾個問題啦就持續性嘛跟良策的問題簡單來講就是沒有儀器也沒有標準啦簡單來講是這樣因為社會秩序維護法主管當然就是警政署就是警察去處理但大部分警察絕對不會有儀器也沒有辦法界定標準那更更因為現在這個都會區公寓大廈很多有些還用公寓大廈你還要等管委會那基本上大廈裡面的管委會管委會還沒有公權力所以沒有儀器沒有標準沒有公權力就是用社會秩序維護法來處理大樓噪音的一個困難之處\n\n02:53.986 --> 03:13.705\n那很多時候我們那時候在內政委員會在討論這個法案的修正的時候很多人都講說其實環境部應該要多一點角色啊比如說噪音管制法你只是把這個東西丟到社會秩序維護法結果它罰則不夠重然後又沒有辦法量測然後也沒有辦法執行那它其實實務上形成了法律的漏洞那從環境部的角度有沒有什麼方法可以把這個漏洞給補起來\n\n03:14.586 --> 03:39.788\n基本上我那時候處理的情況到最後我跟委員分享一下基本上透過我們的環保的集合人力那當然那個其實現在很多的縣市做得很好啦我去的時候大概隔天就會來查了我打1999就來查了然後另外一個是我也打到110去報案警察也來查了他們有分工啦有分工啊這個其實這兩個做就有很顯著嚇阻的效果我\n\n03:41.549 --> 04:02.666\n這就本席的了解跟我們常說收收到選民成型的數量顯然並沒有因為這一套機制的運轉而有顯著的改善喔這問題反而還是很多還是很多啦因為人力還是不夠啦那怎麼辦呢沒有沒關係我們先把問題打開我一向都會給行政機關一點時間去做思考是不是在噪音管制法的部分也要有一些\n\n04:03.306 --> 04:28.232\n加強或者是把法規補上這是一種可能另外一種可能是環境部的角度你可以提供地方基層在執法的時候你提供什麼樣的工具也好人力的補充也好等等更好的一個後勤資源這也是一種解決的方法這我要求環境部我給你一個月的時間你稍微去思考一下然後你們內部專業考量一下必要的時候徵詢一下警政署的意見好大家去想一下怎麼把機制完善可以嗎好這是有關大樓噪音的部分第二個是噪音車啊\n\n04:29.192 --> 04:50.666\n這個環境部現在新制嘛比如說排氣管等等要納管等等現在上路你們覺得執行的狀況怎麼樣目前最有效的是這個噪音的偵測的這個開閥的設備對現在有移動式的這個科技執法嘛對不對或多或少都有效果然後各個縣市都非常的希望環境部多補充相關的經費提供更多套的設備現在預算有增編嗎\n\n04:53.028 --> 05:18.305\n呃這個部分在爭取當中啦希望爭取公共建設的經費大概其實因為一台大概一百多萬嘛一台一百多萬沒錯我們在爭取當中啦好這個部分我希望環境部這個地方要大力的給地方支持啦或者是地方也許未來財務法修正他也會多編經費都好只要可以解決人民生活都好但我還是要從法規面的角度來討論這件事情啦就是說即便有抓到以現行的狀況罰個三千六你要回來再檢查\n\n05:19.085 --> 05:43.693\n然後很多東西不了了之你更不用講他有很多這個上有政策下有對策我想在徹底的提高罰則並且用最嚴重的手法來處分恐怕是有其必要的我剛剛看了一下大概這個立法院現在有九個提案跟這個噪音管制法的修正跟噪音車相關的橫跨不同的黨派民眾黨民進黨國民黨都有那除了普遍的提高罰金的額度之外有比較重像本席的提案就直接說要扣牌嘛\n\n05:44.313 --> 06:01.075\n如果說你被抓到不管你是用移動式的或怎麼樣你抓到確定有問題也超標了你就是直接扣牌你要不要用這種雷力風行的方式來徹底把這個噪音車的問題給處理掉我現在請教一下環境部針對噪音管制法針對噪音車提高罰則甚至到扣牌的官方的意見\n\n06:02.317 --> 06:28.976\n我的個性是我一定嚴格處理的但是執行上我必須考慮到現實的執行有沒有辦法做得到因為我們也遭遇到很多的車子就是車主他來complain說那個噪音的標準的設備可能沒有那麼完善其實我們也遇到這樣的問題所以可能要再一段時間把它確定開閥的這個角度有沒有辦法做得到甚至有沒有這個社會的溝通還要一段時間\n\n06:29.977 --> 06:54.127\n所以我個人是主張是強力的因為這個噪音就是讓民眾這個睡不好其實也吃不好其實是非常惱迷是很討厭的事情嘛這部長自己有檢舉過的經驗大家就會比較放心因為表示你可以感同身受但本節目意思是講這很多不同委員的版本其實你調高罰則他是有裁量空間的嘛也就是說我最嚴重的時候我可以扣牌或者說我可以重罰好幾萬等等但你上下限的距離拉開一點\n\n06:55.128 --> 07:09.269\n給你環境部更多的裁量空間我想應該就沒有問題嘛因為你實務上你那把界線要劃在哪裡你的相關的這個收證的設備啊實務上的溝通狀況它其實可以是可以調整的但是你如果不把法律的空間撐出來加大\n\n07:10.490 --> 07:28.160\n你環境稽查跟警察在第一線的裁量的權力的話那恐怕還是會無法遏制嘛我這樣講的話會不會比較部長比較能夠接受對這個謝謝委員的這個支持啦如果我們朝這樣因為台灣還是要更安寧啦這個也是我們的目標好那部長會不會希望這個法案盡速的來排審來進入審查呃我們還沒有提對因為我們還你們會環境部會提對岸嗎對對就是說針對噪音車的部分\n\n07:39.335 --> 08:04.786\n我們來思考一下我們可以來配合委員會思考一下因為這個問題比大樓噪音的問題我覺得還更嚴重就是說它造成大家的破壞安寧等等所以大家對於修法嚴打噪音車這件事是有高度期待的那你要多少時間你要準備的話可能一個月其實委員我們自己關注一個就是說很多大樓在興建工程其實也造成很不舒服所以這個我們希望整個統一來看這個事情一個月可以嗎\n\n08:05.186 --> 08:34.434\n一樣既然都我剛剛講你大樓內部的針對社會法這一段你有一個月的時間那噪音社會也就一個月好不好針對現在都會區大家關心的噪音問題一個月之內要有明確的說法如果你明確你也許有一個這個官方的版本也很好就可以加速大家的討論但如果沒有我本期是個人是希望雖然我不是衛生委員會的委員但我還希望噪音管制法可以盡速來進行排案跟這個審查的部分可以嗎好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝牛喜廷委員發言那接下來\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.314,"end":28.716,"text":"發言謝謝主席 彭部長有請有請彭部長女委員好部長早安今天要跟你討論一下這個噪音防治的問題大概分成兩個部分因為這個跟人民生活最貼近有關的污染源除了空氣這大家常常講之外恐怕噪音是一個近期尤其在都會地帶非常擾民的一個大的問題"},{"start":29.637,"end":53.075,"text":"那它分成兩個主要的來源第一個當然就是所謂的公寓大廈內部的鄰居之間的這種摩擦這種噪音這種高低樓層等等的這是一個那另外一個當然是噪音車那我們就分別來做探討第一個想請教一下有關於近鄰噪音的部分部長你大概知道說有關於這種這種鄰居之間的噪音的處理現在是用哪一套法規哪一套規則在做在做"},{"start":54.156,"end":74.557,"text":"管理嗎對 社會秩序維護法阿包委 因為我以前也檢舉過你也檢舉過我檢舉過 例如說一樓在營業的然後他半夜在唱KTV然後那大概就是環保局第一個是看狀況有的是警察局會來有的是環保局會來插盒因為他還有低頻噪音等等不是啊 你自己做過檢舉人齁"},{"start":75.618,"end":103.138,"text":"然後你回答也非常快速表現概念非常清楚也就是說實務上在這種鄰居啊大樓的這種噪音你很快的回答是社會秩序維護法但你知不知道因為前一陣子上個禮拜我們內政委員會才在審查社會秩序維護法的一些修正案你知不知道警政署啊實際上在執行這一套法規的時候對於現在這一套遊戲規則的評價是什麼覺得很老民老警察對警察來講是負擔你知不知道他實際上的執行率是多少"},{"start":103.858,"end":118.28,"text":"應該很低非常低對不對所以你們政府部門彼此之間也知道就是說用社會秩序維護法來解決鄰居之間的噪音這個恐怕都很難成案原因是什麼其實最重要是噪音的本身一定要監測啦所以我記得我那時候檢舉的時候"},{"start":119.421,"end":143.086,"text":"例如說他12點還在唱KTV 影響到聲音都傳上來 然後沒辦法睡覺那當然後來就是講好說 我們會通報他環保局的這個稽查人力會來我們那個地方實際上是量或去查核 然後就會開罰那其實應該是地方的環保局的人力不過我也跟委員報告 因為台北市整個稽查人力就100多個而已所以其實就是人力不夠啦"},{"start":143.786,"end":172.865,"text":"他現在有其實幾個問題啦就持續性嘛跟良策的問題簡單來講就是沒有儀器也沒有標準啦簡單來講是這樣因為社會秩序維護法主管當然就是警政署就是警察去處理但大部分警察絕對不會有儀器也沒有辦法界定標準那更更因為現在這個都會區公寓大廈很多有些還用公寓大廈你還要等管委會那基本上大廈裡面的管委會管委會還沒有公權力所以沒有儀器沒有標準沒有公權力就是用社會秩序維護法來處理大樓噪音的一個困難之處"},{"start":173.986,"end":193.705,"text":"那很多時候我們那時候在內政委員會在討論這個法案的修正的時候很多人都講說其實環境部應該要多一點角色啊比如說噪音管制法你只是把這個東西丟到社會秩序維護法結果它罰則不夠重然後又沒有辦法量測然後也沒有辦法執行那它其實實務上形成了法律的漏洞那從環境部的角度有沒有什麼方法可以把這個漏洞給補起來"},{"start":194.586,"end":219.788,"text":"基本上我那時候處理的情況到最後我跟委員分享一下基本上透過我們的環保的集合人力那當然那個其實現在很多的縣市做得很好啦我去的時候大概隔天就會來查了我打1999就來查了然後另外一個是我也打到110去報案警察也來查了他們有分工啦有分工啊這個其實這兩個做就有很顯著嚇阻的效果我"},{"start":221.549,"end":242.666,"text":"這就本席的了解跟我們常說收收到選民成型的數量顯然並沒有因為這一套機制的運轉而有顯著的改善喔這問題反而還是很多還是很多啦因為人力還是不夠啦那怎麼辦呢沒有沒關係我們先把問題打開我一向都會給行政機關一點時間去做思考是不是在噪音管制法的部分也要有一些"},{"start":243.306,"end":268.232,"text":"加強或者是把法規補上這是一種可能另外一種可能是環境部的角度你可以提供地方基層在執法的時候你提供什麼樣的工具也好人力的補充也好等等更好的一個後勤資源這也是一種解決的方法這我要求環境部我給你一個月的時間你稍微去思考一下然後你們內部專業考量一下必要的時候徵詢一下警政署的意見好大家去想一下怎麼把機制完善可以嗎好這是有關大樓噪音的部分第二個是噪音車啊"},{"start":269.192,"end":290.666,"text":"這個環境部現在新制嘛比如說排氣管等等要納管等等現在上路你們覺得執行的狀況怎麼樣目前最有效的是這個噪音的偵測的這個開閥的設備對現在有移動式的這個科技執法嘛對不對或多或少都有效果然後各個縣市都非常的希望環境部多補充相關的經費提供更多套的設備現在預算有增編嗎"},{"start":293.028,"end":318.305,"text":"呃這個部分在爭取當中啦希望爭取公共建設的經費大概其實因為一台大概一百多萬嘛一台一百多萬沒錯我們在爭取當中啦好這個部分我希望環境部這個地方要大力的給地方支持啦或者是地方也許未來財務法修正他也會多編經費都好只要可以解決人民生活都好但我還是要從法規面的角度來討論這件事情啦就是說即便有抓到以現行的狀況罰個三千六你要回來再檢查"},{"start":319.085,"end":343.693,"text":"然後很多東西不了了之你更不用講他有很多這個上有政策下有對策我想在徹底的提高罰則並且用最嚴重的手法來處分恐怕是有其必要的我剛剛看了一下大概這個立法院現在有九個提案跟這個噪音管制法的修正跟噪音車相關的橫跨不同的黨派民眾黨民進黨國民黨都有那除了普遍的提高罰金的額度之外有比較重像本席的提案就直接說要扣牌嘛"},{"start":344.313,"end":361.075,"text":"如果說你被抓到不管你是用移動式的或怎麼樣你抓到確定有問題也超標了你就是直接扣牌你要不要用這種雷力風行的方式來徹底把這個噪音車的問題給處理掉我現在請教一下環境部針對噪音管制法針對噪音車提高罰則甚至到扣牌的官方的意見"},{"start":362.317,"end":388.976,"text":"我的個性是我一定嚴格處理的但是執行上我必須考慮到現實的執行有沒有辦法做得到因為我們也遭遇到很多的車子就是車主他來complain說那個噪音的標準的設備可能沒有那麼完善其實我們也遇到這樣的問題所以可能要再一段時間把它確定開閥的這個角度有沒有辦法做得到甚至有沒有這個社會的溝通還要一段時間"},{"start":389.977,"end":414.127,"text":"所以我個人是主張是強力的因為這個噪音就是讓民眾這個睡不好其實也吃不好其實是非常惱迷是很討厭的事情嘛這部長自己有檢舉過的經驗大家就會比較放心因為表示你可以感同身受但本節目意思是講這很多不同委員的版本其實你調高罰則他是有裁量空間的嘛也就是說我最嚴重的時候我可以扣牌或者說我可以重罰好幾萬等等但你上下限的距離拉開一點"},{"start":415.128,"end":429.269,"text":"給你環境部更多的裁量空間我想應該就沒有問題嘛因為你實務上你那把界線要劃在哪裡你的相關的這個收證的設備啊實務上的溝通狀況它其實可以是可以調整的但是你如果不把法律的空間撐出來加大"},{"start":430.49,"end":448.16,"text":"你環境稽查跟警察在第一線的裁量的權力的話那恐怕還是會無法遏制嘛我這樣講的話會不會比較部長比較能夠接受對這個謝謝委員的這個支持啦如果我們朝這樣因為台灣還是要更安寧啦這個也是我們的目標好那部長會不會希望這個法案盡速的來排審來進入審查呃我們還沒有提對因為我們還你們會環境部會提對岸嗎對對就是說針對噪音車的部分"},{"start":459.335,"end":484.786,"text":"我們來思考一下我們可以來配合委員會思考一下因為這個問題比大樓噪音的問題我覺得還更嚴重就是說它造成大家的破壞安寧等等所以大家對於修法嚴打噪音車這件事是有高度期待的那你要多少時間你要準備的話可能一個月其實委員我們自己關注一個就是說很多大樓在興建工程其實也造成很不舒服所以這個我們希望整個統一來看這個事情一個月可以嗎"},{"start":485.186,"end":514.434,"text":"一樣 既然都我剛剛講你大樓內部的針對社會法這一段你有一個月的時間那噪音社會也就一個月好不好針對現在都會區大家關心的噪音問題一個月之內要有明確的說法如果你明確你也許有一個這個官方的版本也很好就可以加速大家的討論但如果沒有我本期是個人是希望雖然我不是衛生委員會的委員但我還希望噪音管制法可以盡速來進行排案跟這個審查的部分可以嗎好 謝謝部長謝謝好 謝謝牛喜廷委員發言那接下來"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":947,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時58分）謝謝主席，彭部長有請。"],["主席：有請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長早安。今天要跟你討論一下噪音防制的問題，大概分成兩個部分，因為跟人民生活最貼近、最有關的污染源除了大家常講的空氣之外，恐怕噪音是近期尤其在都會地帶一個非常擾民的大問題。它有兩個主要的來源，第一個，當然就是所謂公寓大廈內部的，像鄰居之間摩擦的這種噪音、高低樓層等等的，這是一個；另外一個當然是噪音車，我們就分別探討。想請教一下有關於淨零噪音的部分，部長，有關於這種鄰居之間噪音的處理，你知道現在是用哪一套法規、哪一套規則在做管理嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：社會秩序維護法。"],["牛委員煦庭：對。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為我以前也檢舉過，所以我很瞭解。"],["牛委員煦庭：你有檢舉過？"],["彭部長啓明：我檢舉過，例如一樓在營業的，然後半夜在唱KTV，大概就是環保局，這個是看狀況，有的是警察局會來，有的環保局會來查核，因為可能還有低頻噪音等等。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長，你自己做過檢舉人，你回答也非常快速，表示你的概念非常清楚，也就是說，實務上，這種鄰居、大樓噪音的處理，你很快的回答出是社會秩序維護法。上個禮拜我們內政委員會才在審查社會秩序維護法修正案，你知不知道警政署實際上在執行這一套法規的時候，對於現在這一套遊戲規則的評價是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：覺得很擾民、擾警察。"],["牛委員煦庭：對警察來講是負擔，你知不知道實際上的執行率是多少？"],["彭部長啓明：應該很低。"],["牛委員煦庭：非常低，對不對？所以你們政府部門彼此之間也知道用社會秩序維護法解決鄰居之間的噪音，恐怕都很難成案，原因是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：其實最重要的是噪音本身一定要監測，我記得我那時候檢舉的時候，例如，他12點還在唱KTV，聲音都傳上來，害我沒辦法睡覺，當然後來就講好我們會通報他，環保局的稽查人力會來我們那個地方實際上去量或去查核，然後就會開罰，那其實應該是地方的環保局人力。不過也跟委員報告，因為臺北市整個稽查人力就一百多個而已，所以其實就是人力不夠。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在其實有幾個問題，持續性和量測的問題，簡單來講就是沒有儀器，也沒有標準，簡單來講是這樣。因為社會秩序維護法的主管機關是警政署，就是由警察去處理，但大部分的警察絕對不會有儀器，也沒有辦法界定標準。現在都會區公寓大廈很多，有些公寓大廈你還要等管委會，基本上大廈裡面的管委會還沒有公權力，所以沒有儀器、沒有標準、沒有公權力，這就是用社會秩序維護法來處理大樓噪音的一個困難之處。","我們那時候在內政委員會討論這個法案修正的時候，很多人都講其實環境部應該要多一點角色，比如，噪音管制法，你只是把這個東西丟到社會秩序維護法，結果罰則不夠重，然後又沒有辦法量測，也沒有辦法執行，其實在實務上就形成了法律漏洞。從環境部的角度，有沒有什麼方法可以把這個漏洞給補起來？"],["彭部長啓明：我那時候到最後處理的情況，我跟委員分享一下，基本上，透過我們的環保稽核人力，現在很多縣市做得很好，我打去的時候大概隔天就會來查了，我打1999就來查了。另外，我也打到110報案，警察也來查了，他們有分工，其實這兩個作法就有很顯著嚇阻的效果，就有改善。"],["牛委員煦庭：就本席的瞭解以及我們常常收受到選民陳情的數量，顯然並沒有因為這一套機制的運轉而有顯著的改善，這些問題反而還是很多。"],["彭部長啓明：還是很多，因為人力不夠。"],["牛委員煦庭：那怎麼辦呢？沒關係，我們先把問題打開，我一向都會給行政機關一點時間去思考，是不是在噪音管制法的部分也要有一些加強，或者是把法規補上？這是一種可能。另外一種可能是從環境部的角度，地方基層在執法的時候，你可以提供什麼樣的工具或人力補充等等更好的後勤支援？這也是一種解決方法。所以我要求環境部，我給你一個月的時間稍微去思考一下，你們內部專業考量一下，必要的時候徵詢一下警政署的意見，大家去想一下怎麼讓機制完善，可以嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：可以，謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：這是有關大樓噪音的部分。第二個是噪音車，環境部現在的新制是排氣管要納管等等，現在上路了，你們覺得執行的狀況怎麼樣？"],["彭部長啓明：目前最有效的是噪音偵測開罰的設備。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在有移動式的科技執法，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：或多或少都有效果。"],["彭部長啓明：這個很有效。"],["牛委員煦庭：各個縣市都非常希望環境部多補充相關的經費，提供更多套的設備，現在預算有增編嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：這個部分在爭取當中，希望爭取公共建設的經費，因為一台大概一百多萬。"],["牛委員煦庭：一台一百多萬沒錯。"],["彭部長啓明：我們在爭取當中。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，這個部分我希望環境部要大力的給地方支持，或者是地方也許未來財劃法修正也會多編經費，只要可以解決人民生活都好。但我還是要從法規面的角度來討論這件事情，即便有抓到，以現行的狀況是罰3,600元，你還要回來再檢查，然後很多東西就不了了之，更不用講很多是上有政策、下有對策，我認為再澈底地提高罰則，並且用最嚴重的手法處分，恐怕有其必要。我剛剛看了一下，立法院現在有9個與噪音管制法修正及噪音車相關的提案，橫跨不同的黨派，民眾黨、民進黨、國民黨都有，除了普遍提高罰金額度之外，也有比較重的，像本席的提案就是直接扣牌，如果你被抓到，不管是用移動式的或怎麼樣，你被抓到確定有問題，也超標了，就是直接扣牌。要不要用這種雷厲風行的方式，澈底把噪音車的問題給處理掉？我現在請教一下環境部，針對噪音管制法就噪音車提高罰則，甚至到扣牌的官方意見？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我的個性是一定嚴格處理，但是執行上，我必須考慮到現實的執行有沒有辦法做得到，因為我們也遭遇很多車主來complain噪音標準的設備可能沒有那麼完善，其實我們也遇到這樣的問題，所以可能要再一段時間確定開罰的角度有沒有辦法做得到，甚至有沒有需要社會的溝通，都還要一段時間，但是我個人主張是強力的，因為噪音就是會讓民眾睡不好，也吃不好，其實是非常擾民的。"],["牛委員煦庭：是很討厭的事情，部長自己有檢舉過的經驗，大家就會比較放心，也表示你可以感同身受，但本席的意思是，有很多不同委員的版本，其實你調高罰則是有裁量空間的，最嚴重的時候可以扣牌或者是可以重罰好幾萬等等，把上下限的距離拉開一點，給環境部更多的裁量空間，我想應該就沒有問題。因為實務上你要把界線劃在哪裡，以及相關的蒐證設備，實務上的溝通狀況，其實是可以調整的，但是你如果不把法律的空間撐出來，加大你在環境稽查以及警察在第一線的裁量權力的話，恐怕還是會無法遏制。我這樣講，部長會不會比較能夠接受？"],["彭部長啓明：對，謝謝委員的支持，如果我們朝向臺灣還是要更安寧，這個也是我們的目標。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長會不會希望這個法案儘速排審，進入審查？"],["彭部長啓明：我們還沒有提對案……"],["牛委員煦庭：環境部會提對案嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：針對噪音車的部分？"],["彭部長啓明：我們來思考一下，我們可以來配合委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：思考一下，因為我覺得這個問題比大樓噪音的問題還要更嚴重，造成破壞安寧等等，所以大家對於修法嚴打噪音車這件事是有高度期待的。你要準備的話需要多少時間？"],["彭部長啓明：可能一個月，其實我們自己也關注一個問題，就是很多大樓在興建工程的時候，其實也造成附近鄰居很不舒服。"],["牛委員煦庭：也有很多。"],["彭部長啓明：所以我們希望統一來看這個事情。"],["牛委員煦庭：一個月，可以嗎？一樣，我剛剛講大樓內部針對社維法這塊，你有一個月的時間，噪音車也訂一個月，好不好？針對現在都會區大家關心的噪音問題，一個月之內要有明確的說法，如果有一個官方的版本也很好，就可以加速大家的討論，但是如果沒有，雖然我不是衛環委員會的委員，但本席個人也希望噪音管制法可以儘速進行排案和審查，可以嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，可以。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝部長。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員發言。","接下來請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-8","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","王育敏","涂權吉","牛煦庭","林淑芬","葉元之","王正旭","劉書彬","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃秀芳","楊曜","陳瑩","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-04-28"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00003"}}}