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{\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 264.339, \"end\": 264.539, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 264.539, \"end\": 264.8, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 264.8, \"end\": 264.98, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 264.98, \"end\": 265.22, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 265.22, \"end\": 265.38, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 265.38, \"end\": 265.4, \"score\": 0.106}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}]}, {\"start\": 266.701, \"end\": 294.147, \"text\": \"更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金它設立的重要性對國家主權包括戰略的價值包括創造國家人民的財富其實它有重要的目的在所以我剛剛提到勞保健保國家財政問題撥補台電其實更沒有太大的問題那我就要請問我是不是可以順便請一下國發會的主委 劉主委副主委上一次\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 266.701, \"end\": 267.141, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 267.141, \"end\": 267.321, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 267.321, \"end\": 267.481, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 267.481, \"end\": 267.701, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"清\", 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\"start\": 603.008, \"end\": 603.269, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 603.269, \"end\": 603.429, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 603.429, \"end\": 603.449, \"score\": 0.892}]}, {\"start\": 603.971, \"end\": 620.217, \"text\": \"好所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的成績我會直接的來了解好謝謝院長好謝謝院長那院長主委你可以請回院長那我第二個就是要請問就是特別我先問NCC好了院長那個NCC的部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 603.971, \"end\": 604.431, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 604.431, \"end\": 605.592, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 605.592, \"end\": 605.712, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 605.712, \"end\": 605.892, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 605.892, \"end\": 605.992, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 605.992, \"end\": 606.092, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 606.092, \"end\": 606.232, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"升\", 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\"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 613.875, \"end\": 613.995, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 613.995, \"end\": 614.215, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 614.215, \"end\": 614.355, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 614.355, \"end\": 614.695, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 614.695, \"end\": 614.835, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 614.835, \"end\": 614.955, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 614.955, \"end\": 615.695, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 615.695, \"end\": 615.795, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 615.795, \"end\": 615.955, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 615.955, \"end\": 616.095, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 616.095, \"end\": 617.116, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 617.116, \"end\": 617.216, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 617.216, \"end\": 617.416, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 617.416, \"end\": 617.636, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 617.636, \"end\": 617.796, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 617.796, \"end\": 617.976, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 617.976, \"end\": 618.136, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 618.136, \"end\": 618.656, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 618.656, \"end\": 619.176, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 619.176, \"end\": 619.377, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 619.377, \"end\": 619.577, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 619.577, \"end\": 619.737, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 619.737, \"end\": 619.877, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 619.877, \"end\": 620.017, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 620.017, \"end\": 620.197, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 620.197, \"end\": 620.217, \"score\": 0.887}]}, {\"start\": 620.697, \"end\": 646.397, \"text\": \"我看好幾位委員已經問過了那因為今天已經是四月第一了明天就是行政院會了那這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向所以院長NCC的人事的提名現在到底明天已經最後一次院會會不會提的出來之前的諮詢答覆過我說我在四月份希望能夠提出\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 620.697, \"end\": 620.817, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 620.817, \"end\": 620.977, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 620.977, \"end\": 621.257, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 621.257, \"end\": 621.398, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 621.398, \"end\": 622.118, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 622.118, \"end\": 622.939, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 622.939, \"end\": 623.259, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 623.259, \"end\": 623.579, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"因\", 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644.115, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 644.115, \"end\": 644.515, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 644.515, \"end\": 644.775, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 644.775, \"end\": 644.936, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 644.936, \"end\": 645.176, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 645.176, \"end\": 645.716, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 645.716, \"end\": 645.836, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 645.836, \"end\": 645.916, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 645.916, \"end\": 646.177, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 646.177, \"end\": 646.377, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 646.377, \"end\": 646.397, \"score\": 0.88}]}, {\"start\": 647.737, \"end\": 673.366, \"text\": \"明天已經是四月份最後一天的院會我們在努力做這個事情所以還沒有結論就明天還提不出來就對如果你今天還沒辦法回答我沒辦法問你名單啦明天是一個時間我是希望明天能夠達成至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的好那院長對不起我想請教一下就是說這個事情其實我看到您回答其他委員說找人選其實遇到很多的挑戰那這個部分人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 647.737, \"end\": 647.977, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 647.977, \"end\": 648.137, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 648.137, \"end\": 648.237, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 648.237, \"end\": 648.878, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 648.878, \"end\": 649.018, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 649.018, \"end\": 649.178, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 649.178, \"end\": 649.458, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 649.458, \"end\": 649.578, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 649.578, \"end\": 649.758, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 649.758, \"end\": 649.858, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 649.858, \"end\": 649.978, 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728.492, \"end\": 728.673, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 728.673, \"end\": 728.693, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 729.733, \"end\": 751.239, \"text\": \"那也希望可以儘速解決NCC這個後續的審查的問題好接下來因為我今天時間很趕我接下來問第三個議題就是有關於我們特別預算的部分這跟我剛才國家主權基金其實有關係如果國家主權基金有了我們盈餘有了我覺得舉債都不是問題我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 729.733, \"end\": 729.833, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 729.833, \"end\": 729.933, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 729.933, \"end\": 730.053, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 730.053, \"end\": 730.213, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 730.213, \"end\": 730.393, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 730.393, \"end\": 730.573, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"儘\"}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 730.573, \"end\": 730.733, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 730.733, \"end\": 730.893, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"N\", 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\"end\": 741.456, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 741.456, \"end\": 741.776, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 741.776, \"end\": 741.936, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 741.936, \"end\": 742.156, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 742.156, \"end\": 742.396, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 742.396, \"end\": 744.537, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 744.537, \"end\": 744.677, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 744.677, \"end\": 744.997, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 744.997, \"end\": 745.217, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 745.217, \"end\": 745.537, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 745.537, \"end\": 745.677, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 745.677, \"end\": 745.877, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 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0.883}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 749.298, \"end\": 749.318, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 749.318, \"end\": 749.498, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 749.498, \"end\": 749.698, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 749.698, \"end\": 750.219, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 750.219, \"end\": 750.739, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 750.739, \"end\": 750.899, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 750.899, \"end\": 751.079, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 751.079, \"end\": 751.219, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 751.219, \"end\": 751.239, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"難\"}]}, {\"start\": 752.179, \"end\": 773.326, \"text\": \"那我也特別看到這幾天包括主計長也好或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到就是說4100億我們不用舉債是完全用過去八年來的稅計的剩餘是這樣子嗎我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4100億會全數用歷年的稅計剩餘\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 752.179, \"end\": 752.419, \"score\": 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765.043, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 765.043, \"end\": 765.703, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 765.703, \"end\": 765.884, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"剩\", \"start\": 765.884, \"end\": 766.904, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 766.904, \"end\": 767.304, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 767.304, \"end\": 768.584, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 768.584, \"end\": 769.065, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 769.065, \"end\": 769.785, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 769.785, \"end\": 769.945, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 769.945, \"end\": 770.485, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 770.485, \"end\": 770.825, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 770.825, \"end\": 771.025, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 771.025, \"end\": 771.165, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 771.165, \"end\": 771.345, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 771.345, \"end\": 771.986, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 771.986, \"end\": 772.266, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 772.266, \"end\": 772.386, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 772.386, \"end\": 772.626, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 772.626, \"end\": 772.826, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 772.826, \"end\": 772.946, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 772.946, \"end\": 773.066, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"歷\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 773.066, \"end\": 773.146, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 773.146, \"end\": 773.306, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"剩\", \"start\": 773.306, \"end\": 773.326, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}]}, {\"start\": 776.923, \"end\": 797.379, \"text\": \"好也就是說這四千一百億就完全不會舉債就對了完全不會取債好那因為後面立法院也會後續做審查那剛才院長你已經做很清楚的答覆那我也關注到就是說在國防軍備的部分賴總統在媒體上有提到說我們今年要達到GDP的百分之三\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 776.923, \"end\": 777.183, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 777.183, \"end\": 777.303, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 777.303, \"end\": 777.443, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 777.443, \"end\": 777.764, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 777.764, \"end\": 777.884, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 777.884, \"end\": 778.024, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 778.024, \"end\": 778.124, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 778.124, \"end\": 778.905, 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\"start\": 782.187, \"end\": 782.287, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 782.287, \"end\": 782.587, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 782.587, \"end\": 782.727, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 782.727, \"end\": 782.908, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 782.908, \"end\": 783.068, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 783.068, \"end\": 783.208, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 783.208, \"end\": 783.328, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 783.328, \"end\": 783.588, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 783.588, \"end\": 783.908, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 783.908, \"end\": 784.349, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 784.349, \"end\": 784.849, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 784.849, \"end\": 785.37, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", 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\"start\": 787.951, \"end\": 788.372, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 788.372, \"end\": 788.612, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 788.612, \"end\": 788.832, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 788.832, \"end\": 788.952, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 788.952, \"end\": 790.573, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 790.573, \"end\": 790.894, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 790.894, \"end\": 791.474, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 791.474, \"end\": 791.634, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 791.634, \"end\": 791.874, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 791.874, \"end\": 793.996, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 793.996, \"end\": 794.196, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 794.196, \"end\": 794.416, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 794.416, \"end\": 794.557, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 794.557, \"end\": 794.637, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 794.637, \"end\": 794.757, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 794.757, \"end\": 795.057, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 795.057, \"end\": 795.297, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 795.297, \"end\": 795.457, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 795.457, \"end\": 795.657, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 795.657, \"end\": 795.998, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 795.998, \"end\": 796.218, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 796.218, \"end\": 796.378, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"D\", \"start\": 796.378, \"end\": 796.538, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 796.538, \"end\": 796.658, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 796.658, \"end\": 796.798, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 796.798, \"end\": 796.938, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 796.938, \"end\": 797.099, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 797.099, \"end\": 797.359, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 797.359, \"end\": 797.379, \"score\": 0.265}]}, {\"start\": 798.492, \"end\": 823.232, \"text\": \"那如果是百分之三的話那相當於差不多一千億左右這一點國家需要的軍備預算我們絕對支持那時候賴總統在提到說國防軍備預算要達到我們今年應該想辦法達到百分之三的時候GDP百分之三的時候還沒有關稅這件事情也還沒有四千一百億這件事情這個國防預算在前這個在後嘛所以\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 798.492, \"end\": 798.773, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 798.773, \"end\": 798.873, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 798.873, \"end\": 798.933, \"score\": 0.627}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 798.933, \"end\": 799.053, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 799.053, \"end\": 799.173, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 799.173, 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{\"word\": \"君\", \"start\": 954.147, \"end\": 954.267, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 954.267, \"end\": 954.387, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 954.387, \"end\": 954.407, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"備\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,557 --> 00:00:08,758\n我是不是可以邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢議員好院長好院長最近又有一個大國宣布要成立主權基金喔您知道是哪一個國家嗎我們也很想成立主權基金你也很想成立喔很好那你知道最近要成立是哪一個國家嗎\n\n2\n00:00:35,114 --> 00:00:59,206\n沒有關係我跟你講是美國美國總統川普說一年之內他要求財政部跟商務部12個月之內設立美國主權的財政基金那他的資金的來源最主要是從關稅關稅作為資金的基礎所以很感謝剛才這個院長你已經正面答覆我就是說我們也很想成立\n\n3\n00:01:00,146 --> 00:01:25,601\n主權財富基金其實最主要的幾個資金的來源第一個是國家財政的盈餘第二個是外匯存底第三個是譬如說我們有自然資源的出口的盈餘那接下來是由政府來做投資跟管理那國家主權基金可以發揮國家主權的影響力現在全世界大概也有90個主權基金財富基金它的總金額\n\n4\n00:01:26,963 --> 00:01:41,604\n達到八兆美元所以其實台灣沒有成立主權基金我們已經落後在全世界很多國家後面所以其實我非常期待我們有機會盡速的趕快把國家主權基金成立起來\n\n5\n00:01:42,005 --> 00:02:01,574\n因為國家主權成立基金成立起來我們如果賺了錢有盈餘不要說撥補台電撥補怎麼勞保健保其實我們都有足夠的資源我們也在財政上比較沒有後顧之憂川普也說他要成立這個這個主權基金最主要目的財政部長說他要幫美國人賺錢\n\n6\n00:02:03,135 --> 00:02:15,192\n所以這幾件事情其實主權基金它具有國家的戰略價值對外當然也有對我們主權的影響力譬如說我們比較近的國家新加坡來說的話\n\n7\n00:02:16,175 --> 00:02:37,168\n我們很清楚有戴馬錫基金還有GIC他都是投資在科技跟醫療業那前幾年疫情的時候我們就很清楚知道新加坡因為戴馬錫有投資BNT所以當時的疫苗他就幫新加坡在第一批所以新加坡人他第一批他都有\n\n8\n00:02:37,708 --> 00:02:53,059\n可以疫苗可以打也沒有後顧之憂那當然因為他們因為有疫苗那也幫助整個國家賺了創造很多的財富所以主權基金也參與了全世界的主流趨勢的發展他投資國外\n\n9\n00:02:54,960 --> 00:03:16,334\n創造了財富這個是新加坡的部分那當然新加坡的我們看一下新加坡無論是GIC的主權基金或者是代馬錫基金我們看一下他總財政的收入達到1500億新幣那他的財政除了經常收入之外就是說一般的稅收達到1228億新幣之外光是這些主權基金\n\n10\n00:03:21,277 --> 00:03:48,303\n他就高達了271億新幣就說整個新加坡的政府的盈餘有五分之一是靠這個主權基金的收入所以看起來這個新加坡的這個主權基金他收入是不錯的只要他是收入是投資的正確穩當的話他收入是不錯的那包括在GIC新加坡的除了代碼協另外一個GIC的這個主權基金\n\n11\n00:03:48,919 --> 00:03:55,631\n他也是我們台灣台積電的第二大股東第一大股東是我們的國發會GSE\n\n12\n00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:25,400\n我們國發會是佔台積電6.38%那GIC光是去年它就獲利從台積電獲利了4000億台幣所以台灣人很辛苦台灣的努力台積電的努力新加坡人民也分到一杯羹所以我用院長我用這些例子來跟您溝通或我們更清楚透過今天的答詢\n\n13\n00:04:26,701 --> 00:04:54,147\n更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金它設立的重要性對國家主權包括戰略的價值包括創造國家人民的財富其實它有重要的目的在所以我剛剛提到勞保健保國家財政問題撥補台電其實更沒有太大的問題那我就要請問我是不是可以順便請一下國發會的主委劉主委副主委上一次\n\n14\n00:04:55,248 --> 00:05:10,366\n上一次我們設立國家主權基金院長是交付說請央行做報告那我要請問我們國發會在這一塊上一次做報告是什麼時候你們相關的會議記錄跟結論\n\n15\n00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:34,933\n我們大概在兩年前應該有做過討論不是在您院內嘛對不對那都已經在兩年前了嘛因為其實我們現在國內已經有類似的機制譬如說我們的台三基金啊那個跟國家基金是不一樣的層級你不要講那你跟院長要的不一樣院長你很清楚我們要的是什麼\n\n16\n00:05:36,054 --> 00:05:51,867\n國家隊的主權基金所以上一陣子的討論其實在龔明欣院長任內已經是在112年11月討論過之後就完全無聲無息了如果院長您剛才給我是非常正面的答覆\n\n17\n00:05:52,768 --> 00:06:14,014\n我們已經要趕快進速的研究我也非常期望有機會在賴政府任內這也是卓院長你的一大非常重要的政績也好對國家未來的整個財政盈餘的方向是很重要的業績對你來說我覺得我們更應該積極的去做這件事情\n\n18\n00:06:14,894 --> 00:06:31,065\n目前外匯存底有5770億美元我們的年化的報酬率大概只有2.64%就是很穩健但是你說多也不是太多我們光看淡馬錫達每一次的報酬率大概有18%左右\n\n19\n00:06:31,445 --> 00:06:49,094\n但當然投資有高有低但是我覺得我們央行在這件事情上事實上他也是持正面的態度但是他是有幾個前提就說央行目前有三個主張第一個如果要設立國家主權基金的話我們就必須要有主權基金的專法\n\n20\n00:06:49,834 --> 00:07:16,275\n怎麼去做處理那第二個我們當然不能求援兼裁判因為全世界沒有央行作為主權基金的主管機關我們必須要成立一個公司看後續怎麼去做管理處理第三個要遵守聖利亞哥的原則資金來源應該由政府來統籌做規劃可以向外匯存底買或借但是不應該用無償的去做撥用央行對於主權基金有這三大\n\n21\n00:07:17,356 --> 00:07:43,297\n主張跟原則所以院長無論設立主權國家基金從國家的戰略上或國家的財政的角度上來看或甚至是國際的能見度那個新加坡投資BNT就賺了不少錢所以我覺得對我們台灣來說對中華民國站上國際的舞台其實有正面的幫助所以我要請問院長我們能不能也像川普一樣\n\n22\n00:07:43,697 --> 00:08:00,917\n拿出破例他一年就要設立出來院長我們這件事情已經是在狗明星擔任主委的時候已經停在那邊兩年了所以如果院長你覺得這件事情解決國家的財政國家戰略目標都是正面的\n\n23\n00:08:02,277 --> 00:08:25,189\n您能不能更正面的答覆我我們要把它提升為院長的層級來去處理這件事情那能不能設立專法來去處理然後我剛剛提到就是說資金的規模我們拿外匯存底的10%它只有兩兆的基金的一個規模至少就有兩兆所以院長您對於這件事情可不可以給我更正面的答覆\n\n24\n00:08:25,783 --> 00:08:44,221\n非常謝謝委員相當關心國家主權基金這個議題我覺得國家發展到現在我們的經濟能力我們的財政能力跟我們的科技產業的發展能力都足以讓我們重新來考量過去我們對主權基金的設置是比較保守認為\n\n25\n00:08:46,242 --> 00:09:11,457\n認為尤其有落我們大概經不起一個大的變動如果經營不佳的話但現在我認為在各方面條件比較足夠的情況底下國家的財政能力我們要考慮的是基金的規模要有多大像委員說的要有專法什麼樣的管理他投資的方向要怎麼定定他要怎麼做一個公平的機制讓國內大家都能夠看到這個基金用到的我們願用積極的方向用積極的態度\n\n26\n00:09:15,799 --> 00:09:34,806\n但是時間過得很快,您會不會把它提升為院長的成績,因為過去都是國發院的成績,停下我質詢完可能就沒有了,所以能不能提升為院長的成績,來去討論這件事情,由您個人來主導,然後多久時間我們可以有比較具體的一個方向出來。\n\n27\n00:09:37,347 --> 00:10:03,449\n日前我已經跟央行總裁我們做過非正式的討論過那我會請國發會、央行跟我們所有的財主單位同時列一個專案提出一個報告之後我們再來研究後續如何進行那我覺得目前來看我們願意用比較積極的方向去做這個事情的討論盡快能夠把它做一個結論出來告訴國人我們什麼時候要做到什麼事情\n\n28\n00:10:03,971 --> 00:10:20,217\n好所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的成績我會直接的來了解好謝謝院長好謝謝院長那院長主委你可以請回院長那我第二個就是要請問就是特別我先問NCC好了院長那個NCC的部分\n\n29\n00:10:20,697 --> 00:10:46,397\n我看好幾位委員已經問過了那因為今天已經是四月第一了明天就是行政院會了那這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向所以院長NCC的人事的提名現在到底明天已經最後一次院會會不會提的出來之前的諮詢答覆過我說我在四月份希望能夠提出\n\n30\n00:10:47,737 --> 00:11:13,366\n明天已經是四月份最後一天的院會我們在努力做這個事情所以還沒有結論就明天還提不出來就對如果你今天還沒辦法回答我沒辦法問你名單啦明天是一個時間我是希望明天能夠達成至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的好那院長對不起我想請教一下就是說這個事情其實我看到您回答其他委員說找人選其實遇到很多的挑戰那這個部分人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎\n\n31\n00:11:16,516 --> 00:11:32,857\n我們在找的過程中間都還沒有但定案之前我會跟他報告這個人選其實NCC其實是行政院長您可以一手主導但是就您剛才回應我的就是說您又找到人那您又跟賴總統做報告定案之前我會跟他說一個說明\n\n32\n00:11:34,245 --> 00:11:47,342\n院長就是說之前您找人選您說碰到很多的困難我覺得之前如果是專業社會的說演其實如果他沒有外界太多的干擾我覺得應該有很多專業的人士願意進來\n\n33\n00:11:49,664 --> 00:12:08,693\n所以未來如何讓NCC的這些專業人才他有獨立的空間去做他該做的事情我覺得是這些人願意留在這些位置上也是未來我們立法院在做審查把關的過程當中我覺得很重要的指標所以我們很期待看到明天的人選出來\n\n34\n00:12:09,733 --> 00:12:31,239\n那也希望可以儘速解決NCC這個後續的審查的問題好接下來因為我今天時間很趕我接下來問第三個議題就是有關於我們特別預算的部分這跟我剛才國家主權基金其實有關係如果國家主權基金有了我們盈餘有了我覺得舉債都不是問題我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難\n\n35\n00:12:32,179 --> 00:12:53,326\n那我也特別看到這幾天包括主計長也好或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到就是說4100億我們不用舉債是完全用過去八年來的稅計的剩餘是這樣子嗎我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4100億會全數用歷年的稅計剩餘\n\n36\n00:12:56,923 --> 00:13:17,379\n好也就是說這四千一百億就完全不會舉債就對了完全不會取債好那因為後面立法院也會後續做審查那剛才院長你已經做很清楚的答覆那我也關注到就是說在國防軍備的部分賴總統在媒體上有提到說我們今年要達到GDP的百分之三\n\n37\n00:13:18,492 --> 00:13:43,232\n那如果是百分之三的話那相當於差不多一千億左右這一點國家需要的軍備預算我們絕對支持那時候賴總統在提到說國防軍備預算要達到我們今年應該想辦法達到百分之三的時候GDP百分之三的時候還沒有關稅這件事情也還沒有四千一百億這件事情這個國防預算在前這個在後嘛所以\n\n38\n00:13:43,912 --> 00:14:07,588\n看起來一千億是一定要的那我們採購軍品的項目一千億是確定了嗎還是還會再更增加院長因為這個都牽涉到我們後面你四千一百億等一下立院審後面又來個一千億或兩千億我們總要大概知道整個立法院我們幫國家人民把關預算我們總是要知道說最後到底要舉債多少錢\n\n39\n00:14:09,239 --> 00:14:15,902\n這次的特別條例當中列舉的4100億當中1500億的國土安全認證4100億我知道了我要問的是國防預算3%還沒有在4100億不用完全期債那如果3%GDP的軍品我們國防跟美國採購是要舉債的還是也不用舉債我們如果\n\n40\n00:14:31,650 --> 00:14:45,769\n大筆的國防特別預算在今年度或是以後年度還要編列的話那可能會動要舉債所以你今年因為時間快到了所以今年要舉債嗎所以今年會送進來嗎如果今年會動到\n\n41\n00:14:46,810 --> 00:14:58,817\n比較多長年度的這個國防的特別預算的話那有可能必須要舉債但今年我們還沒有討論因為賴總統說今年要提軍備預算但現在我們還沒有討論到今年其他特別預算的這個案子沒有討論到現在為止好所以預算規模也不清楚包括軍品要採購的預算規模也不清楚我跟你講我也清楚國防的預算不是我們想\n\n42\n00:15:16,159 --> 00:15:20,923\n還有相對方的一些供應報告院長這個就牽涉到我們在\n\n43\n00:15:52,987 --> 00:15:54,407\n接下來我們請陳玉珍委員馬文君委員請準備\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4557\t8758\t我是不是可以邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢議員好院長好院長最近又有一個大國宣布要成立主權基金喔您知道是哪一個國家嗎我們也很想成立主權基金你也很想成立喔很好那你知道最近要成立是哪一個國家嗎\n35114\t59206\t沒有關係我跟你講是美國美國總統川普說一年之內他要求財政部跟商務部12個月之內設立美國主權的財政基金那他的資金的來源最主要是從關稅關稅作為資金的基礎所以很感謝剛才這個院長你已經正面答覆我就是說我們也很想成立\n60146\t85601\t主權財富基金其實最主要的幾個資金的來源第一個是國家財政的盈餘第二個是外匯存底第三個是譬如說我們有自然資源的出口的盈餘那接下來是由政府來做投資跟管理那國家主權基金可以發揮國家主權的影響力現在全世界大概也有90個主權基金財富基金它的總金額\n86963\t101604\t達到八兆美元所以其實台灣沒有成立主權基金我們已經落後在全世界很多國家後面所以其實我非常期待我們有機會盡速的趕快把國家主權基金成立起來\n102005\t121574\t因為國家主權成立基金成立起來我們如果賺了錢有盈餘不要說撥補台電撥補怎麼勞保健保其實我們都有足夠的資源我們也在財政上比較沒有後顧之憂川普也說他要成立這個這個主權基金最主要目的財政部長說他要幫美國人賺錢\n123135\t135192\t所以這幾件事情其實主權基金它具有國家的戰略價值對外當然也有對我們主權的影響力譬如說我們比較近的國家新加坡來說的話\n136175\t157168\t我們很清楚有戴馬錫基金還有GIC他都是投資在科技跟醫療業那前幾年疫情的時候我們就很清楚知道新加坡因為戴馬錫有投資BNT所以當時的疫苗他就幫新加坡在第一批所以新加坡人他第一批他都有\n157708\t173059\t可以疫苗可以打也沒有後顧之憂那當然因為他們因為有疫苗那也幫助整個國家賺了創造很多的財富所以主權基金也參與了全世界的主流趨勢的發展他投資國外\n174960\t196334\t創造了財富這個是新加坡的部分那當然新加坡的我們看一下新加坡無論是GIC的主權基金或者是代馬錫基金我們看一下他總財政的收入達到1500億新幣那他的財政除了經常收入之外就是說一般的稅收達到1228億新幣之外光是這些主權基金\n201277\t228303\t他就高達了271億新幣就說整個新加坡的政府的盈餘有五分之一是靠這個主權基金的收入所以看起來這個新加坡的這個主權基金他收入是不錯的只要他是收入是投資的正確穩當的話他收入是不錯的那包括在GIC新加坡的除了代碼協另外一個GIC的這個主權基金\n228919\t235631\t他也是我們台灣台積電的第二大股東第一大股東是我們的國發會GSE\n238680\t265400\t我們國發會是佔台積電6.38%那GIC光是去年它就獲利從台積電獲利了4000億台幣所以台灣人很辛苦台灣的努力台積電的努力新加坡人民也分到一杯羹所以我用院長我用這些例子來跟您溝通或我們更清楚透過今天的答詢\n266701\t294147\t更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金它設立的重要性對國家主權包括戰略的價值包括創造國家人民的財富其實它有重要的目的在所以我剛剛提到勞保健保國家財政問題撥補台電其實更沒有太大的問題那我就要請問我是不是可以順便請一下國發會的主委 劉主委副主委上一次\n295248\t310366\t上一次我們設立國家主權基金院長是交付說請央行做報告那我要請問我們國發會在這一塊上一次做報告是什麼時候你們相關的會議記錄跟結論\n313199\t334933\t我們大概在兩年前應該有做過討論不是在您院內嘛對不對那都已經在兩年前了嘛因為其實我們現在國內已經有類似的機制譬如說我們的台三基金啊那個跟國家基金是不一樣的層級你不要講那你跟院長要的不一樣院長你很清楚我們要的是什麼\n336054\t351867\t國家隊的主權基金所以上一陣子的討論其實在龔明欣院長任內已經是在112年11月討論過之後就完全無聲無息了如果院長您剛才給我是非常正面的答覆\n352768\t374014\t我們已經要趕快進速的研究我也非常期望有機會在賴政府任內這也是卓院長你的一大非常重要的政績也好對國家未來的整個財政盈餘的方向是很重要的業績對你來說我覺得我們更應該積極的去做這件事情\n374894\t391065\t目前外匯存底有5770億美元我們的年化的報酬率大概只有2.64%就是很穩健但是你說多也不是太多我們光看淡馬錫達每一次的報酬率大概有18%左右\n391445\t409094\t但當然投資有高有低但是我覺得我們央行在這件事情上事實上他也是持正面的態度但是他是有幾個前提就說央行目前有三個主張第一個如果要設立國家主權基金的話我們就必須要有主權基金的專法\n409834\t436275\t怎麼去做處理那第二個我們當然不能求援兼裁判因為全世界沒有央行作為主權基金的主管機關我們必須要成立一個公司看後續怎麼去做管理處理第三個要遵守聖利亞哥的原則資金來源應該由政府來統籌做規劃可以向外匯存底買或借但是不應該用無償的去做撥用央行對於主權基金有這三大\n437356\t463297\t主張跟原則所以院長無論設立主權國家基金從國家的戰略上或國家的財政的角度上來看或甚至是國際的能見度那個新加坡投資BNT就賺了不少錢所以我覺得對我們台灣來說對中華民國站上國際的舞台其實有正面的幫助所以我要請問院長我們能不能也像川普一樣\n463697\t480917\t拿出破例他一年就要設立出來院長我們這件事情已經是在狗明星擔任主委的時候已經停在那邊兩年了所以如果院長你覺得這件事情解決國家的財政國家戰略目標都是正面的\n482277\t505189\t您能不能更正面的答覆我我們要把它提升為院長的層級來去處理這件事情那能不能設立專法來去處理然後我剛剛提到就是說資金的規模我們拿外匯存底的10%它只有兩兆的基金的一個規模至少就有兩兆所以院長您對於這件事情可不可以給我更正面的答覆\n505783\t524221\t非常謝謝委員相當關心國家主權基金這個議題我覺得國家發展到現在我們的經濟能力我們的財政能力跟我們的科技產業的發展能力都足以讓我們重新來考量過去我們對主權基金的設置是比較保守認為\n526242\t551457\t認為尤其有落我們大概經不起一個大的變動如果經營不佳的話但現在我認為在各方面條件比較足夠的情況底下國家的財政能力我們要考慮的是基金的規模要有多大像委員說的要有專法什麼樣的管理他投資的方向要怎麼定定他要怎麼做一個公平的機制讓國內大家都能夠看到這個基金用到的我們願用積極的方向用積極的態度\n555799\t574806\t但是時間過得很快,您會不會把它提升為院長的成績,因為過去都是國發院的成績,停下我質詢完可能就沒有了,所以能不能提升為院長的成績,來去討論這件事情,由您個人來主導,然後多久時間我們可以有比較具體的一個方向出來。\n577347\t603449\t日前我已經跟央行總裁我們做過非正式的討論過那我會請國發會、央行跟我們所有的財主單位同時列一個專案提出一個報告之後我們再來研究後續如何進行那我覺得目前來看我們願意用比較積極的方向去做這個事情的討論盡快能夠把它做一個結論出來告訴國人我們什麼時候要做到什麼事情\n603971\t620217\t好所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的成績我會直接的來了解好謝謝院長好謝謝院長那院長主委你可以請回院長那我第二個就是要請問就是特別我先問NCC好了院長那個NCC的部分\n620697\t646397\t我看好幾位委員已經問過了那因為今天已經是四月第一了明天就是行政院會了那這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向所以院長NCC的人事的提名現在到底明天已經最後一次院會會不會提的出來之前的諮詢答覆過我說我在四月份希望能夠提出\n647737\t673366\t明天已經是四月份最後一天的院會我們在努力做這個事情所以還沒有結論就明天還提不出來就對如果你今天還沒辦法回答我沒辦法問你名單啦明天是一個時間我是希望明天能夠達成至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的好那院長對不起我想請教一下就是說這個事情其實我看到您回答其他委員說找人選其實遇到很多的挑戰那這個部分人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎\n676516\t692857\t我們在找的過程中間都還沒有但定案之前我會跟他報告這個人選其實NCC其實是行政院長您可以一手主導但是就您剛才回應我的就是說您又找到人那您又跟賴總統做報告定案之前我會跟他說一個說明\n694245\t707342\t院長就是說之前您找人選您說碰到很多的困難我覺得之前如果是專業社會的說演其實如果他沒有外界太多的干擾我覺得應該有很多專業的人士願意進來\n709664\t728693\t所以未來如何讓NCC的這些專業人才他有獨立的空間去做他該做的事情我覺得是這些人願意留在這些位置上也是未來我們立法院在做審查把關的過程當中我覺得很重要的指標所以我們很期待看到明天的人選出來\n729733\t751239\t那也希望可以儘速解決NCC這個後續的審查的問題好接下來因為我今天時間很趕我接下來問第三個議題就是有關於我們特別預算的部分這跟我剛才國家主權基金其實有關係如果國家主權基金有了我們盈餘有了我覺得舉債都不是問題我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難\n752179\t773326\t那我也特別看到這幾天包括主計長也好或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到就是說4100億我們不用舉債是完全用過去八年來的稅計的剩餘是這樣子嗎我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4100億會全數用歷年的稅計剩餘\n776923\t797379\t好也就是說這四千一百億就完全不會舉債就對了完全不會取債好那因為後面立法院也會後續做審查那剛才院長你已經做很清楚的答覆那我也關注到就是說在國防軍備的部分賴總統在媒體上有提到說我們今年要達到GDP的百分之三\n798492\t823232\t那如果是百分之三的話那相當於差不多一千億左右這一點國家需要的軍備預算我們絕對支持那時候賴總統在提到說國防軍備預算要達到我們今年應該想辦法達到百分之三的時候GDP百分之三的時候還沒有關稅這件事情也還沒有四千一百億這件事情這個國防預算在前這個在後嘛所以\n823912\t847588\t看起來一千億是一定要的那我們採購軍品的項目一千億是確定了嗎還是還會再更增加院長因為這個都牽涉到我們後面你四千一百億等一下立院審後面又來個一千億或兩千億我們總要大概知道整個立法院我們幫國家人民把關預算我們總是要知道說最後到底要舉債多少錢\n849239\t855902\t這次的特別條例當中列舉的4100億當中1500億的國土安全認證4100億我知道了我要問的是國防預算3%還沒有在4100億不用完全期債那如果3%GDP的軍品我們國防跟美國採購是要舉債的還是也不用舉債我們如果\n871650\t885769\t大筆的國防特別預算在今年度或是以後年度還要編列的話那可能會動要舉債所以你今年因為時間快到了所以今年要舉債嗎所以今年會送進來嗎如果今年會動到\n886810\t898817\t比較多長年度的這個國防的特別預算的話那有可能必須要舉債但今年我們還沒有討論因為賴總統說今年要提軍備預算但現在我們還沒有討論到今年其他特別預算的這個案子沒有討論 到現在為止好 所以預算規模也不清楚包括軍品要採購的預算規模也不清楚我跟你講我也清楚國防的預算不是我們想\n916159\t920923\t還有相對方的一些供應報告院長這個就牽涉到我們在\n952987\t954407\t接下來我們請陳玉珍委員 馬文君委員請準備\n","txt":"我是不是可以邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢議員好院長好院長最近又有一個大國宣布要成立主權基金喔您知道是哪一個國家嗎我們也很想成立主權基金你也很想成立喔很好那你知道最近要成立是哪一個國家嗎\n沒有關係我跟你講是美國美國總統川普說一年之內他要求財政部跟商務部12個月之內設立美國主權的財政基金那他的資金的來源最主要是從關稅關稅作為資金的基礎所以很感謝剛才這個院長你已經正面答覆我就是說我們也很想成立\n主權財富基金其實最主要的幾個資金的來源第一個是國家財政的盈餘第二個是外匯存底第三個是譬如說我們有自然資源的出口的盈餘那接下來是由政府來做投資跟管理那國家主權基金可以發揮國家主權的影響力現在全世界大概也有90個主權基金財富基金它的總金額\n達到八兆美元所以其實台灣沒有成立主權基金我們已經落後在全世界很多國家後面所以其實我非常期待我們有機會盡速的趕快把國家主權基金成立起來\n因為國家主權成立基金成立起來我們如果賺了錢有盈餘不要說撥補台電撥補怎麼勞保健保其實我們都有足夠的資源我們也在財政上比較沒有後顧之憂川普也說他要成立這個這個主權基金最主要目的財政部長說他要幫美國人賺錢\n所以這幾件事情其實主權基金它具有國家的戰略價值對外當然也有對我們主權的影響力譬如說我們比較近的國家新加坡來說的話\n我們很清楚有戴馬錫基金還有GIC他都是投資在科技跟醫療業那前幾年疫情的時候我們就很清楚知道新加坡因為戴馬錫有投資BNT所以當時的疫苗他就幫新加坡在第一批所以新加坡人他第一批他都有\n可以疫苗可以打也沒有後顧之憂那當然因為他們因為有疫苗那也幫助整個國家賺了創造很多的財富所以主權基金也參與了全世界的主流趨勢的發展他投資國外\n創造了財富這個是新加坡的部分那當然新加坡的我們看一下新加坡無論是GIC的主權基金或者是代馬錫基金我們看一下他總財政的收入達到1500億新幣那他的財政除了經常收入之外就是說一般的稅收達到1228億新幣之外光是這些主權基金\n他就高達了271億新幣就說整個新加坡的政府的盈餘有五分之一是靠這個主權基金的收入所以看起來這個新加坡的這個主權基金他收入是不錯的只要他是收入是投資的正確穩當的話他收入是不錯的那包括在GIC新加坡的除了代碼協另外一個GIC的這個主權基金\n他也是我們台灣台積電的第二大股東第一大股東是我們的國發會GSE\n我們國發會是佔台積電6.38%那GIC光是去年它就獲利從台積電獲利了4000億台幣所以台灣人很辛苦台灣的努力台積電的努力新加坡人民也分到一杯羹所以我用院長我用這些例子來跟您溝通或我們更清楚透過今天的答詢\n更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金它設立的重要性對國家主權包括戰略的價值包括創造國家人民的財富其實它有重要的目的在所以我剛剛提到勞保健保國家財政問題撥補台電其實更沒有太大的問題那我就要請問我是不是可以順便請一下國發會的主委 劉主委副主委上一次\n上一次我們設立國家主權基金院長是交付說請央行做報告那我要請問我們國發會在這一塊上一次做報告是什麼時候你們相關的會議記錄跟結論\n我們大概在兩年前應該有做過討論不是在您院內嘛對不對那都已經在兩年前了嘛因為其實我們現在國內已經有類似的機制譬如說我們的台三基金啊那個跟國家基金是不一樣的層級你不要講那你跟院長要的不一樣院長你很清楚我們要的是什麼\n國家隊的主權基金所以上一陣子的討論其實在龔明欣院長任內已經是在112年11月討論過之後就完全無聲無息了如果院長您剛才給我是非常正面的答覆\n我們已經要趕快進速的研究我也非常期望有機會在賴政府任內這也是卓院長你的一大非常重要的政績也好對國家未來的整個財政盈餘的方向是很重要的業績對你來說我覺得我們更應該積極的去做這件事情\n目前外匯存底有5770億美元我們的年化的報酬率大概只有2.64%就是很穩健但是你說多也不是太多我們光看淡馬錫達每一次的報酬率大概有18%左右\n但當然投資有高有低但是我覺得我們央行在這件事情上事實上他也是持正面的態度但是他是有幾個前提就說央行目前有三個主張第一個如果要設立國家主權基金的話我們就必須要有主權基金的專法\n怎麼去做處理那第二個我們當然不能求援兼裁判因為全世界沒有央行作為主權基金的主管機關我們必須要成立一個公司看後續怎麼去做管理處理第三個要遵守聖利亞哥的原則資金來源應該由政府來統籌做規劃可以向外匯存底買或借但是不應該用無償的去做撥用央行對於主權基金有這三大\n主張跟原則所以院長無論設立主權國家基金從國家的戰略上或國家的財政的角度上來看或甚至是國際的能見度那個新加坡投資BNT就賺了不少錢所以我覺得對我們台灣來說對中華民國站上國際的舞台其實有正面的幫助所以我要請問院長我們能不能也像川普一樣\n拿出破例他一年就要設立出來院長我們這件事情已經是在狗明星擔任主委的時候已經停在那邊兩年了所以如果院長你覺得這件事情解決國家的財政國家戰略目標都是正面的\n您能不能更正面的答覆我我們要把它提升為院長的層級來去處理這件事情那能不能設立專法來去處理然後我剛剛提到就是說資金的規模我們拿外匯存底的10%它只有兩兆的基金的一個規模至少就有兩兆所以院長您對於這件事情可不可以給我更正面的答覆\n非常謝謝委員相當關心國家主權基金這個議題我覺得國家發展到現在我們的經濟能力我們的財政能力跟我們的科技產業的發展能力都足以讓我們重新來考量過去我們對主權基金的設置是比較保守認為\n認為尤其有落我們大概經不起一個大的變動如果經營不佳的話但現在我認為在各方面條件比較足夠的情況底下國家的財政能力我們要考慮的是基金的規模要有多大像委員說的要有專法什麼樣的管理他投資的方向要怎麼定定他要怎麼做一個公平的機制讓國內大家都能夠看到這個基金用到的我們願用積極的方向用積極的態度\n但是時間過得很快,您會不會把它提升為院長的成績,因為過去都是國發院的成績,停下我質詢完可能就沒有了,所以能不能提升為院長的成績,來去討論這件事情,由您個人來主導,然後多久時間我們可以有比較具體的一個方向出來。\n日前我已經跟央行總裁我們做過非正式的討論過那我會請國發會、央行跟我們所有的財主單位同時列一個專案提出一個報告之後我們再來研究後續如何進行那我覺得目前來看我們願意用比較積極的方向去做這個事情的討論盡快能夠把它做一個結論出來告訴國人我們什麼時候要做到什麼事情\n好所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的成績我會直接的來了解好謝謝院長好謝謝院長那院長主委你可以請回院長那我第二個就是要請問就是特別我先問NCC好了院長那個NCC的部分\n我看好幾位委員已經問過了那因為今天已經是四月第一了明天就是行政院會了那這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向所以院長NCC的人事的提名現在到底明天已經最後一次院會會不會提的出來之前的諮詢答覆過我說我在四月份希望能夠提出\n明天已經是四月份最後一天的院會我們在努力做這個事情所以還沒有結論就明天還提不出來就對如果你今天還沒辦法回答我沒辦法問你名單啦明天是一個時間我是希望明天能夠達成至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的好那院長對不起我想請教一下就是說這個事情其實我看到您回答其他委員說找人選其實遇到很多的挑戰那這個部分人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎\n我們在找的過程中間都還沒有但定案之前我會跟他報告這個人選其實NCC其實是行政院長您可以一手主導但是就您剛才回應我的就是說您又找到人那您又跟賴總統做報告定案之前我會跟他說一個說明\n院長就是說之前您找人選您說碰到很多的困難我覺得之前如果是專業社會的說演其實如果他沒有外界太多的干擾我覺得應該有很多專業的人士願意進來\n所以未來如何讓NCC的這些專業人才他有獨立的空間去做他該做的事情我覺得是這些人願意留在這些位置上也是未來我們立法院在做審查把關的過程當中我覺得很重要的指標所以我們很期待看到明天的人選出來\n那也希望可以儘速解決NCC這個後續的審查的問題好接下來因為我今天時間很趕我接下來問第三個議題就是有關於我們特別預算的部分這跟我剛才國家主權基金其實有關係如果國家主權基金有了我們盈餘有了我覺得舉債都不是問題我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難\n那我也特別看到這幾天包括主計長也好或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到就是說4100億我們不用舉債是完全用過去八年來的稅計的剩餘是這樣子嗎我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4100億會全數用歷年的稅計剩餘\n好也就是說這四千一百億就完全不會舉債就對了完全不會取債好那因為後面立法院也會後續做審查那剛才院長你已經做很清楚的答覆那我也關注到就是說在國防軍備的部分賴總統在媒體上有提到說我們今年要達到GDP的百分之三\n那如果是百分之三的話那相當於差不多一千億左右這一點國家需要的軍備預算我們絕對支持那時候賴總統在提到說國防軍備預算要達到我們今年應該想辦法達到百分之三的時候GDP百分之三的時候還沒有關稅這件事情也還沒有四千一百億這件事情這個國防預算在前這個在後嘛所以\n看起來一千億是一定要的那我們採購軍品的項目一千億是確定了嗎還是還會再更增加院長因為這個都牽涉到我們後面你四千一百億等一下立院審後面又來個一千億或兩千億我們總要大概知道整個立法院我們幫國家人民把關預算我們總是要知道說最後到底要舉債多少錢\n這次的特別條例當中列舉的4100億當中1500億的國土安全認證4100億我知道了我要問的是國防預算3%還沒有在4100億不用完全期債那如果3%GDP的軍品我們國防跟美國採購是要舉債的還是也不用舉債我們如果\n大筆的國防特別預算在今年度或是以後年度還要編列的話那可能會動要舉債所以你今年因為時間快到了所以今年要舉債嗎所以今年會送進來嗎如果今年會動到\n比較多長年度的這個國防的特別預算的話那有可能必須要舉債但今年我們還沒有討論因為賴總統說今年要提軍備預算但現在我們還沒有討論到今年其他特別預算的這個案子沒有討論 到現在為止好 所以預算規模也不清楚包括軍品要採購的預算規模也不清楚我跟你講我也清楚國防的預算不是我們想\n還有相對方的一些供應報告院長這個就牽涉到我們在\n接下來我們請陳玉珍委員 馬文君委員請準備\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.557 --> 00:08.758\n我是不是可以邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢議員好院長好院長最近又有一個大國宣布要成立主權基金喔您知道是哪一個國家嗎我們也很想成立主權基金你也很想成立喔很好那你知道最近要成立是哪一個國家嗎\n\n00:35.114 --> 00:59.206\n沒有關係我跟你講是美國美國總統川普說一年之內他要求財政部跟商務部12個月之內設立美國主權的財政基金那他的資金的來源最主要是從關稅關稅作為資金的基礎所以很感謝剛才這個院長你已經正面答覆我就是說我們也很想成立\n\n01:00.146 --> 01:25.601\n主權財富基金其實最主要的幾個資金的來源第一個是國家財政的盈餘第二個是外匯存底第三個是譬如說我們有自然資源的出口的盈餘那接下來是由政府來做投資跟管理那國家主權基金可以發揮國家主權的影響力現在全世界大概也有90個主權基金財富基金它的總金額\n\n01:26.963 --> 01:41.604\n達到八兆美元所以其實台灣沒有成立主權基金我們已經落後在全世界很多國家後面所以其實我非常期待我們有機會盡速的趕快把國家主權基金成立起來\n\n01:42.005 --> 02:01.574\n因為國家主權成立基金成立起來我們如果賺了錢有盈餘不要說撥補台電撥補怎麼勞保健保其實我們都有足夠的資源我們也在財政上比較沒有後顧之憂川普也說他要成立這個這個主權基金最主要目的財政部長說他要幫美國人賺錢\n\n02:03.135 --> 02:15.192\n所以這幾件事情其實主權基金它具有國家的戰略價值對外當然也有對我們主權的影響力譬如說我們比較近的國家新加坡來說的話\n\n02:16.175 --> 02:37.168\n我們很清楚有戴馬錫基金還有GIC他都是投資在科技跟醫療業那前幾年疫情的時候我們就很清楚知道新加坡因為戴馬錫有投資BNT所以當時的疫苗他就幫新加坡在第一批所以新加坡人他第一批他都有\n\n02:37.708 --> 02:53.059\n可以疫苗可以打也沒有後顧之憂那當然因為他們因為有疫苗那也幫助整個國家賺了創造很多的財富所以主權基金也參與了全世界的主流趨勢的發展他投資國外\n\n02:54.960 --> 03:16.334\n創造了財富這個是新加坡的部分那當然新加坡的我們看一下新加坡無論是GIC的主權基金或者是代馬錫基金我們看一下他總財政的收入達到1500億新幣那他的財政除了經常收入之外就是說一般的稅收達到1228億新幣之外光是這些主權基金\n\n03:21.277 --> 03:48.303\n他就高達了271億新幣就說整個新加坡的政府的盈餘有五分之一是靠這個主權基金的收入所以看起來這個新加坡的這個主權基金他收入是不錯的只要他是收入是投資的正確穩當的話他收入是不錯的那包括在GIC新加坡的除了代碼協另外一個GIC的這個主權基金\n\n03:48.919 --> 03:55.631\n他也是我們台灣台積電的第二大股東第一大股東是我們的國發會GSE\n\n03:58.680 --> 04:25.400\n我們國發會是佔台積電6.38%那GIC光是去年它就獲利從台積電獲利了4000億台幣所以台灣人很辛苦台灣的努力台積電的努力新加坡人民也分到一杯羹所以我用院長我用這些例子來跟您溝通或我們更清楚透過今天的答詢\n\n04:26.701 --> 04:54.147\n更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金它設立的重要性對國家主權包括戰略的價值包括創造國家人民的財富其實它有重要的目的在所以我剛剛提到勞保健保國家財政問題撥補台電其實更沒有太大的問題那我就要請問我是不是可以順便請一下國發會的主委劉主委副主委上一次\n\n04:55.248 --> 05:10.366\n上一次我們設立國家主權基金院長是交付說請央行做報告那我要請問我們國發會在這一塊上一次做報告是什麼時候你們相關的會議記錄跟結論\n\n05:13.199 --> 05:34.933\n我們大概在兩年前應該有做過討論不是在您院內嘛對不對那都已經在兩年前了嘛因為其實我們現在國內已經有類似的機制譬如說我們的台三基金啊那個跟國家基金是不一樣的層級你不要講那你跟院長要的不一樣院長你很清楚我們要的是什麼\n\n05:36.054 --> 05:51.867\n國家隊的主權基金所以上一陣子的討論其實在龔明欣院長任內已經是在112年11月討論過之後就完全無聲無息了如果院長您剛才給我是非常正面的答覆\n\n05:52.768 --> 06:14.014\n我們已經要趕快進速的研究我也非常期望有機會在賴政府任內這也是卓院長你的一大非常重要的政績也好對國家未來的整個財政盈餘的方向是很重要的業績對你來說我覺得我們更應該積極的去做這件事情\n\n06:14.894 --> 06:31.065\n目前外匯存底有5770億美元我們的年化的報酬率大概只有2.64%就是很穩健但是你說多也不是太多我們光看淡馬錫達每一次的報酬率大概有18%左右\n\n06:31.445 --> 06:49.094\n但當然投資有高有低但是我覺得我們央行在這件事情上事實上他也是持正面的態度但是他是有幾個前提就說央行目前有三個主張第一個如果要設立國家主權基金的話我們就必須要有主權基金的專法\n\n06:49.834 --> 07:16.275\n怎麼去做處理那第二個我們當然不能求援兼裁判因為全世界沒有央行作為主權基金的主管機關我們必須要成立一個公司看後續怎麼去做管理處理第三個要遵守聖利亞哥的原則資金來源應該由政府來統籌做規劃可以向外匯存底買或借但是不應該用無償的去做撥用央行對於主權基金有這三大\n\n07:17.356 --> 07:43.297\n主張跟原則所以院長無論設立主權國家基金從國家的戰略上或國家的財政的角度上來看或甚至是國際的能見度那個新加坡投資BNT就賺了不少錢所以我覺得對我們台灣來說對中華民國站上國際的舞台其實有正面的幫助所以我要請問院長我們能不能也像川普一樣\n\n07:43.697 --> 08:00.917\n拿出破例他一年就要設立出來院長我們這件事情已經是在狗明星擔任主委的時候已經停在那邊兩年了所以如果院長你覺得這件事情解決國家的財政國家戰略目標都是正面的\n\n08:02.277 --> 08:25.189\n您能不能更正面的答覆我我們要把它提升為院長的層級來去處理這件事情那能不能設立專法來去處理然後我剛剛提到就是說資金的規模我們拿外匯存底的10%它只有兩兆的基金的一個規模至少就有兩兆所以院長您對於這件事情可不可以給我更正面的答覆\n\n08:25.783 --> 08:44.221\n非常謝謝委員相當關心國家主權基金這個議題我覺得國家發展到現在我們的經濟能力我們的財政能力跟我們的科技產業的發展能力都足以讓我們重新來考量過去我們對主權基金的設置是比較保守認為\n\n08:46.242 --> 09:11.457\n認為尤其有落我們大概經不起一個大的變動如果經營不佳的話但現在我認為在各方面條件比較足夠的情況底下國家的財政能力我們要考慮的是基金的規模要有多大像委員說的要有專法什麼樣的管理他投資的方向要怎麼定定他要怎麼做一個公平的機制讓國內大家都能夠看到這個基金用到的我們願用積極的方向用積極的態度\n\n09:15.799 --> 09:34.806\n但是時間過得很快,您會不會把它提升為院長的成績,因為過去都是國發院的成績,停下我質詢完可能就沒有了,所以能不能提升為院長的成績,來去討論這件事情,由您個人來主導,然後多久時間我們可以有比較具體的一個方向出來。\n\n09:37.347 --> 10:03.449\n日前我已經跟央行總裁我們做過非正式的討論過那我會請國發會、央行跟我們所有的財主單位同時列一個專案提出一個報告之後我們再來研究後續如何進行那我覺得目前來看我們願意用比較積極的方向去做這個事情的討論盡快能夠把它做一個結論出來告訴國人我們什麼時候要做到什麼事情\n\n10:03.971 --> 10:20.217\n好所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的成績我會直接的來了解好謝謝院長好謝謝院長那院長主委你可以請回院長那我第二個就是要請問就是特別我先問NCC好了院長那個NCC的部分\n\n10:20.697 --> 10:46.397\n我看好幾位委員已經問過了那因為今天已經是四月第一了明天就是行政院會了那這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向所以院長NCC的人事的提名現在到底明天已經最後一次院會會不會提的出來之前的諮詢答覆過我說我在四月份希望能夠提出\n\n10:47.737 --> 11:13.366\n明天已經是四月份最後一天的院會我們在努力做這個事情所以還沒有結論就明天還提不出來就對如果你今天還沒辦法回答我沒辦法問你名單啦明天是一個時間我是希望明天能夠達成至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的好那院長對不起我想請教一下就是說這個事情其實我看到您回答其他委員說找人選其實遇到很多的挑戰那這個部分人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎\n\n11:16.516 --> 11:32.857\n我們在找的過程中間都還沒有但定案之前我會跟他報告這個人選其實NCC其實是行政院長您可以一手主導但是就您剛才回應我的就是說您又找到人那您又跟賴總統做報告定案之前我會跟他說一個說明\n\n11:34.245 --> 11:47.342\n院長就是說之前您找人選您說碰到很多的困難我覺得之前如果是專業社會的說演其實如果他沒有外界太多的干擾我覺得應該有很多專業的人士願意進來\n\n11:49.664 --> 12:08.693\n所以未來如何讓NCC的這些專業人才他有獨立的空間去做他該做的事情我覺得是這些人願意留在這些位置上也是未來我們立法院在做審查把關的過程當中我覺得很重要的指標所以我們很期待看到明天的人選出來\n\n12:09.733 --> 12:31.239\n那也希望可以儘速解決NCC這個後續的審查的問題好接下來因為我今天時間很趕我接下來問第三個議題就是有關於我們特別預算的部分這跟我剛才國家主權基金其實有關係如果國家主權基金有了我們盈餘有了我覺得舉債都不是問題我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難\n\n12:32.179 --> 12:53.326\n那我也特別看到這幾天包括主計長也好或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到就是說4100億我們不用舉債是完全用過去八年來的稅計的剩餘是這樣子嗎我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4100億會全數用歷年的稅計剩餘\n\n12:56.923 --> 13:17.379\n好也就是說這四千一百億就完全不會舉債就對了完全不會取債好那因為後面立法院也會後續做審查那剛才院長你已經做很清楚的答覆那我也關注到就是說在國防軍備的部分賴總統在媒體上有提到說我們今年要達到GDP的百分之三\n\n13:18.492 --> 13:43.232\n那如果是百分之三的話那相當於差不多一千億左右這一點國家需要的軍備預算我們絕對支持那時候賴總統在提到說國防軍備預算要達到我們今年應該想辦法達到百分之三的時候GDP百分之三的時候還沒有關稅這件事情也還沒有四千一百億這件事情這個國防預算在前這個在後嘛所以\n\n13:43.912 --> 14:07.588\n看起來一千億是一定要的那我們採購軍品的項目一千億是確定了嗎還是還會再更增加院長因為這個都牽涉到我們後面你四千一百億等一下立院審後面又來個一千億或兩千億我們總要大概知道整個立法院我們幫國家人民把關預算我們總是要知道說最後到底要舉債多少錢\n\n14:09.239 --> 14:15.902\n這次的特別條例當中列舉的4100億當中1500億的國土安全認證4100億我知道了我要問的是國防預算3%還沒有在4100億不用完全期債那如果3%GDP的軍品我們國防跟美國採購是要舉債的還是也不用舉債我們如果\n\n14:31.650 --> 14:45.769\n大筆的國防特別預算在今年度或是以後年度還要編列的話那可能會動要舉債所以你今年因為時間快到了所以今年要舉債嗎所以今年會送進來嗎如果今年會動到\n\n14:46.810 --> 14:58.817\n比較多長年度的這個國防的特別預算的話那有可能必須要舉債但今年我們還沒有討論因為賴總統說今年要提軍備預算但現在我們還沒有討論到今年其他特別預算的這個案子沒有討論到現在為止好所以預算規模也不清楚包括軍品要採購的預算規模也不清楚我跟你講我也清楚國防的預算不是我們想\n\n15:16.159 --> 15:20.923\n還有相對方的一些供應報告院長這個就牽涉到我們在\n\n15:52.987 --> 15:54.407\n接下來我們請陳玉珍委員馬文君委員請準備\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.557,"end":8.758,"text":"我是不是可以邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢議員好院長好院長最近又有一個大國宣布要成立主權基金喔您知道是哪一個國家嗎我們也很想成立主權基金你也很想成立喔很好那你知道最近要成立是哪一個國家嗎"},{"start":35.114,"end":59.206,"text":"沒有關係我跟你講是美國美國總統川普說一年之內他要求財政部跟商務部12個月之內設立美國主權的財政基金那他的資金的來源最主要是從關稅關稅作為資金的基礎所以很感謝剛才這個院長你已經正面答覆我就是說我們也很想成立"},{"start":60.146,"end":85.601,"text":"主權財富基金其實最主要的幾個資金的來源第一個是國家財政的盈餘第二個是外匯存底第三個是譬如說我們有自然資源的出口的盈餘那接下來是由政府來做投資跟管理那國家主權基金可以發揮國家主權的影響力現在全世界大概也有90個主權基金財富基金它的總金額"},{"start":86.963,"end":101.604,"text":"達到八兆美元所以其實台灣沒有成立主權基金我們已經落後在全世界很多國家後面所以其實我非常期待我們有機會盡速的趕快把國家主權基金成立起來"},{"start":102.005,"end":121.574,"text":"因為國家主權成立基金成立起來我們如果賺了錢有盈餘不要說撥補台電撥補怎麼勞保健保其實我們都有足夠的資源我們也在財政上比較沒有後顧之憂川普也說他要成立這個這個主權基金最主要目的財政部長說他要幫美國人賺錢"},{"start":123.135,"end":135.192,"text":"所以這幾件事情其實主權基金它具有國家的戰略價值對外當然也有對我們主權的影響力譬如說我們比較近的國家新加坡來說的話"},{"start":136.175,"end":157.168,"text":"我們很清楚有戴馬錫基金還有GIC他都是投資在科技跟醫療業那前幾年疫情的時候我們就很清楚知道新加坡因為戴馬錫有投資BNT所以當時的疫苗他就幫新加坡在第一批所以新加坡人他第一批他都有"},{"start":157.708,"end":173.059,"text":"可以疫苗可以打也沒有後顧之憂那當然因為他們因為有疫苗那也幫助整個國家賺了創造很多的財富所以主權基金也參與了全世界的主流趨勢的發展他投資國外"},{"start":174.96,"end":196.334,"text":"創造了財富這個是新加坡的部分那當然新加坡的我們看一下新加坡無論是GIC的主權基金或者是代馬錫基金我們看一下他總財政的收入達到1500億新幣那他的財政除了經常收入之外就是說一般的稅收達到1228億新幣之外光是這些主權基金"},{"start":201.277,"end":228.303,"text":"他就高達了271億新幣就說整個新加坡的政府的盈餘有五分之一是靠這個主權基金的收入所以看起來這個新加坡的這個主權基金他收入是不錯的只要他是收入是投資的正確穩當的話他收入是不錯的那包括在GIC新加坡的除了代碼協另外一個GIC的這個主權基金"},{"start":228.919,"end":235.631,"text":"他也是我們台灣台積電的第二大股東第一大股東是我們的國發會GSE"},{"start":238.68,"end":265.4,"text":"我們國發會是佔台積電6.38%那GIC光是去年它就獲利從台積電獲利了4000億台幣所以台灣人很辛苦台灣的努力台積電的努力新加坡人民也分到一杯羹所以我用院長我用這些例子來跟您溝通或我們更清楚透過今天的答詢"},{"start":266.701,"end":294.147,"text":"更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金它設立的重要性對國家主權包括戰略的價值包括創造國家人民的財富其實它有重要的目的在所以我剛剛提到勞保健保國家財政問題撥補台電其實更沒有太大的問題那我就要請問我是不是可以順便請一下國發會的主委 劉主委副主委上一次"},{"start":295.248,"end":310.366,"text":"上一次我們設立國家主權基金院長是交付說請央行做報告那我要請問我們國發會在這一塊上一次做報告是什麼時候你們相關的會議記錄跟結論"},{"start":313.199,"end":334.933,"text":"我們大概在兩年前應該有做過討論不是在您院內嘛對不對那都已經在兩年前了嘛因為其實我們現在國內已經有類似的機制譬如說我們的台三基金啊那個跟國家基金是不一樣的層級你不要講那你跟院長要的不一樣院長你很清楚我們要的是什麼"},{"start":336.054,"end":351.867,"text":"國家隊的主權基金所以上一陣子的討論其實在龔明欣院長任內已經是在112年11月討論過之後就完全無聲無息了如果院長您剛才給我是非常正面的答覆"},{"start":352.768,"end":374.014,"text":"我們已經要趕快進速的研究我也非常期望有機會在賴政府任內這也是卓院長你的一大非常重要的政績也好對國家未來的整個財政盈餘的方向是很重要的業績對你來說我覺得我們更應該積極的去做這件事情"},{"start":374.894,"end":391.065,"text":"目前外匯存底有5770億美元我們的年化的報酬率大概只有2.64%就是很穩健但是你說多也不是太多我們光看淡馬錫達每一次的報酬率大概有18%左右"},{"start":391.445,"end":409.094,"text":"但當然投資有高有低但是我覺得我們央行在這件事情上事實上他也是持正面的態度但是他是有幾個前提就說央行目前有三個主張第一個如果要設立國家主權基金的話我們就必須要有主權基金的專法"},{"start":409.834,"end":436.275,"text":"怎麼去做處理那第二個我們當然不能求援兼裁判因為全世界沒有央行作為主權基金的主管機關我們必須要成立一個公司看後續怎麼去做管理處理第三個要遵守聖利亞哥的原則資金來源應該由政府來統籌做規劃可以向外匯存底買或借但是不應該用無償的去做撥用央行對於主權基金有這三大"},{"start":437.356,"end":463.297,"text":"主張跟原則所以院長無論設立主權國家基金從國家的戰略上或國家的財政的角度上來看或甚至是國際的能見度那個新加坡投資BNT就賺了不少錢所以我覺得對我們台灣來說對中華民國站上國際的舞台其實有正面的幫助所以我要請問院長我們能不能也像川普一樣"},{"start":463.697,"end":480.917,"text":"拿出破例他一年就要設立出來院長我們這件事情已經是在狗明星擔任主委的時候已經停在那邊兩年了所以如果院長你覺得這件事情解決國家的財政國家戰略目標都是正面的"},{"start":482.277,"end":505.189,"text":"您能不能更正面的答覆我我們要把它提升為院長的層級來去處理這件事情那能不能設立專法來去處理然後我剛剛提到就是說資金的規模我們拿外匯存底的10%它只有兩兆的基金的一個規模至少就有兩兆所以院長您對於這件事情可不可以給我更正面的答覆"},{"start":505.783,"end":524.221,"text":"非常謝謝委員相當關心國家主權基金這個議題我覺得國家發展到現在我們的經濟能力我們的財政能力跟我們的科技產業的發展能力都足以讓我們重新來考量過去我們對主權基金的設置是比較保守認為"},{"start":526.242,"end":551.457,"text":"認為尤其有落我們大概經不起一個大的變動如果經營不佳的話但現在我認為在各方面條件比較足夠的情況底下國家的財政能力我們要考慮的是基金的規模要有多大像委員說的要有專法什麼樣的管理他投資的方向要怎麼定定他要怎麼做一個公平的機制讓國內大家都能夠看到這個基金用到的我們願用積極的方向用積極的態度"},{"start":555.799,"end":574.806,"text":"但是時間過得很快,您會不會把它提升為院長的成績,因為過去都是國發院的成績,停下我質詢完可能就沒有了,所以能不能提升為院長的成績,來去討論這件事情,由您個人來主導,然後多久時間我們可以有比較具體的一個方向出來。"},{"start":577.347,"end":603.449,"text":"日前我已經跟央行總裁我們做過非正式的討論過那我會請國發會、央行跟我們所有的財主單位同時列一個專案提出一個報告之後我們再來研究後續如何進行那我覺得目前來看我們願意用比較積極的方向去做這個事情的討論盡快能夠把它做一個結論出來告訴國人我們什麼時候要做到什麼事情"},{"start":603.971,"end":620.217,"text":"好所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的成績我會直接的來了解好謝謝院長好謝謝院長那院長主委你可以請回院長那我第二個就是要請問就是特別我先問NCC好了院長那個NCC的部分"},{"start":620.697,"end":646.397,"text":"我看好幾位委員已經問過了那因為今天已經是四月第一了明天就是行政院會了那這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向所以院長NCC的人事的提名現在到底明天已經最後一次院會會不會提的出來之前的諮詢答覆過我說我在四月份希望能夠提出"},{"start":647.737,"end":673.366,"text":"明天已經是四月份最後一天的院會我們在努力做這個事情所以還沒有結論就明天還提不出來就對如果你今天還沒辦法回答我沒辦法問你名單啦明天是一個時間我是希望明天能夠達成至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的好那院長對不起我想請教一下就是說這個事情其實我看到您回答其他委員說找人選其實遇到很多的挑戰那這個部分人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎"},{"start":676.516,"end":692.857,"text":"我們在找的過程中間都還沒有但定案之前我會跟他報告這個人選其實NCC其實是行政院長您可以一手主導但是就您剛才回應我的就是說您又找到人那您又跟賴總統做報告定案之前我會跟他說一個說明"},{"start":694.245,"end":707.342,"text":"院長就是說之前您找人選您說碰到很多的困難我覺得之前如果是專業社會的說演其實如果他沒有外界太多的干擾我覺得應該有很多專業的人士願意進來"},{"start":709.664,"end":728.693,"text":"所以未來如何讓NCC的這些專業人才他有獨立的空間去做他該做的事情我覺得是這些人願意留在這些位置上也是未來我們立法院在做審查把關的過程當中我覺得很重要的指標所以我們很期待看到明天的人選出來"},{"start":729.733,"end":751.239,"text":"那也希望可以儘速解決NCC這個後續的審查的問題好接下來因為我今天時間很趕我接下來問第三個議題就是有關於我們特別預算的部分這跟我剛才國家主權基金其實有關係如果國家主權基金有了我們盈餘有了我覺得舉債都不是問題我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難"},{"start":752.179,"end":773.326,"text":"那我也特別看到這幾天包括主計長也好或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到就是說4100億我們不用舉債是完全用過去八年來的稅計的剩餘是這樣子嗎我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4100億會全數用歷年的稅計剩餘"},{"start":776.923,"end":797.379,"text":"好也就是說這四千一百億就完全不會舉債就對了完全不會取債好那因為後面立法院也會後續做審查那剛才院長你已經做很清楚的答覆那我也關注到就是說在國防軍備的部分賴總統在媒體上有提到說我們今年要達到GDP的百分之三"},{"start":798.492,"end":823.232,"text":"那如果是百分之三的話那相當於差不多一千億左右這一點國家需要的軍備預算我們絕對支持那時候賴總統在提到說國防軍備預算要達到我們今年應該想辦法達到百分之三的時候GDP百分之三的時候還沒有關稅這件事情也還沒有四千一百億這件事情這個國防預算在前這個在後嘛所以"},{"start":823.912,"end":847.588,"text":"看起來一千億是一定要的那我們採購軍品的項目一千億是確定了嗎還是還會再更增加院長因為這個都牽涉到我們後面你四千一百億等一下立院審後面又來個一千億或兩千億我們總要大概知道整個立法院我們幫國家人民把關預算我們總是要知道說最後到底要舉債多少錢"},{"start":849.239,"end":855.902,"text":"這次的特別條例當中列舉的4100億當中1500億的國土安全認證4100億我知道了我要問的是國防預算3%還沒有在4100億不用完全期債那如果3%GDP的軍品我們國防跟美國採購是要舉債的還是也不用舉債我們如果"},{"start":871.65,"end":885.769,"text":"大筆的國防特別預算在今年度或是以後年度還要編列的話那可能會動要舉債所以你今年因為時間快到了所以今年要舉債嗎所以今年會送進來嗎如果今年會動到"},{"start":886.81,"end":898.817,"text":"比較多長年度的這個國防的特別預算的話那有可能必須要舉債但今年我們還沒有討論因為賴總統說今年要提軍備預算但現在我們還沒有討論到今年其他特別預算的這個案子沒有討論 到現在為止好 所以預算規模也不清楚包括軍品要採購的預算規模也不清楚我跟你講我也清楚國防的預算不是我們想"},{"start":916.159,"end":920.923,"text":"還有相對方的一些供應報告院長這個就牽涉到我們在"},{"start":952.987,"end":954.407,"text":"接下來我們請陳玉珍委員 馬文君委員請準備"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":143,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（9時33分）是不是可以邀請卓院長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：院長好。最近又有一個大國宣布要成立主權基金，您知道是哪一個國家嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也很想成立主權基金。"],["李委員彥秀：你也很想成立，很好！那你知道最近要成立的是哪一個國家嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員指示。"],["李委員彥秀：沒關係，我跟你講是美國。美國總統川普說，他要求財政部跟商務部12個月之內設立美國主權財富基金，資金的來源最主要是關稅，以關稅作為基金的基礎。所以很感謝剛才院長已經正面答復我，就是我們也很想成立。主權財富基金其實最主要的幾個資金來源有：第一個是國家財政盈餘，第二個是外匯存底，第三個譬如我們有自然資源出口的盈餘，那接下來是由政府來做投資跟管理。國家主權基金可以發揮國家主權的影響力，現在全世界大概有90個主權財富基金，總金額達到8兆美元，臺灣沒有成立主權基金，其實已經落後全世界很多國家了，所以我非常期待我們有機會儘速的把國家主權基金成立起來，因為國家主權基金成立起來，我們如果賺了錢有盈餘，不要說撥補台電，撥補什麼勞保、健保其實都有足夠的資源，我們在財政上比較沒有後顧之憂。川普也說要成立主權基金，最主要目的，財政部長說他要幫美國人賺錢。所以這幾件事情，其實主權基金具有國家戰略價值，對外當然也有對我們主權的影響力。","譬如跟我們比較近的國家以新加坡來說，有淡馬錫基金還有GIC，它都是投資在科技跟醫療業。前幾年疫情的時候我們就很清楚知道，新加坡因為淡馬錫有投資BNT，所以當時的疫苗他就幫新加坡排在第一批，所有新加坡人在第一批都有疫苗可以打，也沒有後顧之憂。當然他們因為有疫苗，也幫助整個國家創造了很多財富，所以主權基金也參與了全世界主流趨勢的發展，他投資國外，創造了財富，這個是新加坡的部分。我們看一下新加坡，無論是GIC主權基金或者是淡馬錫基金，總財政收入達到1,500億新幣。他的財政除了經常收入，就是一般的稅收達到1,228億新幣之外，光是這些主權基金就高達了271億新幣，整個新加坡政府的盈餘有五分之一是靠這個主權基金的收入，所以看起來新加坡的這個主權基金的收入是不錯的。只要他投資得正確、穩當的話，他的收入是不錯的，包括GIC。新加坡除了淡馬錫，另外一個是GIC主權基金，它也是臺灣台積電的第二大股東，第一大股東是我們的國發會，國發會是占台積電6.38%。GIC光是去年就從台積電獲利了4,000億臺幣，所以臺灣人很辛苦，臺灣的努力、台積電的努力，新加坡人民也分到一杯羹。","院長，我用這些例子來跟你溝通，或我們更清楚，透過今天的答詢，更讓外界很清楚知道國家主權基金設立的重要性，國家主權包括戰略的價值，包括創造國家人民的財富，其實它有重要的目的。我剛剛提到勞保、健保、國家財政問題、撥補台電，其實更沒有太大的問題。那我就要請問，我是不是可以順便請一下國發會劉主委？"],["卓院長榮泰：副主委。"],["主席：他今天沒有……"],["李委員彥秀：上一次我們談設立國家主權基金，院長是交付說請央行做報告。那我要請問，國發會在這一塊，上一次做報告是什麼時候？有沒有相關的會議紀錄跟結論？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們大概在兩年前應該有做過……討論。"],["李委員彥秀：不是在您任內，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["李委員彥秀：那都已經在2年前了。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，因為現在國內已經有類似的機制，譬如我們的台杉基金其實就是……"],["李委員彥秀：那個跟國家基金是不一樣的層級。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["李委員彥秀：你不要講那個。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，那……"],["李委員彥秀：你跟院長要的不一樣。","院長，你很清楚我們要的是什麼。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是……"],["李委員彥秀：國家隊的主權基金。所以上一次的討論，其實在龔明鑫……院長任內，已經是在112年11月。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["李委員彥秀：討論過之後就完全無聲無息了。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是……"],["李委員彥秀：如果院長您剛才給我的是非常正面的答復，我們已經要趕快儘速研究，我也非常期望有機會在賴政府任內，這也是卓院長非常重要的一大政績也好，對國家未來整個財政盈餘的方向是很重要的業績、對您來說，我覺得我們更應該積極去做這件事情。","我們目前外匯存底有5,770億美元，年化報酬率大概只有2.64%，很穩健，但你說多也不是太多，我們光看淡馬錫，每一次的報酬率大概有百分之十八左右。當然投資有高有低，但是我覺得我們央行在這件事情上，事實上它也是持正面的態度，但是有幾個前提，就是央行目前有三個主張，第一，如果要設立國家主權基金的話，就必須要有主權基金的專法，怎麼去做處理；第二是不能球員兼裁判，因為全世界沒有央行作為主權基金的主管機關，我們必須成立一個公司，看後續怎麼去做管理、處理；第三是要遵守聖地牙哥原則，資金來源應由政府統籌規劃，可以向外匯存底「買」或「借」，但是不應無償撥用。央行對於主權基金有以上三大主張和原則。所以院長，設立國家主權基金無論是從國家戰略、國家財政，甚至是國際能見度的角度上來看，像新加坡投資BNT就賺了不少錢，所以我覺得對我們臺灣來說、對中華民國站上國際舞臺，其實有正面的幫助，所以我要請問院長，我們能不能也像川普一樣拿出魄力，他一年就要設立出來？","院長，我們這件事情在龔明鑫擔任主委的時候就已經停在那邊兩年了，如果院長覺得這件事情對解決國家財政問題和國家戰略目標都是正面的，您能不能更正面地答復我，把它提升到院長的層級來處理這件事情？能不能設立專法去處理？然後是我剛剛提到的資金規模，我們拿外匯存底的10%至少就有2兆的基金規模。所以院長，您對於這件事情可不可以給我更正面的答復？"],["卓院長榮泰：非常謝謝委員相當關心國家主權基金這個議題。我覺得國家發展到現在，我們的經濟能力、我們的財政能力跟我們科技產業的發展能力，都足以讓我們重新來考量，過去我們對主權基金的設置比較保守，認為有起有落，如果經營不佳的話，我們大概經不起大的變動，但現在我認為在各方面條件比較足夠的情況底下，國家的財政能力……我們現在考慮的是基金的規模要有多大，像委員說的，要有一個專法、什麼樣的管理、它投資的方向要怎麼訂定、要怎麼設計一個公平的機制，讓國內大家都能看到這個基金用在……"],["李委員彥秀：院長，謝謝你用正面……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們願意用積極的方向、用積極的態度……"],["李委員彥秀：積極？但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：過去都比較保守。"],["李委員彥秀：但是時間過得很快啦！您覺得多少時間……你願不願意把它提升為院長的層級？因為過去都是國發會的層級，我質詢完可能就沒有了，所以能不能提升為院長的層級來討論這件事情，由您個人來主導，然後是多久的時間可以有比較具體的方向出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：日前我已經跟央行總裁非正式地討論過，我會請國發會、央行，跟我們所有的財主單位同時列一個專案，提出一個報告之後，我們再來研究後續如何進行，但我覺得目前來看，我們願意用比較積極的方向去做這個事情的討論，儘快把它做一個結論出來，告訴國人我們什麼時候要做到什麼事情。"],["李委員彥秀：好。所以這個議題也可以提升到院長的層級來去主導這件事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會直接來瞭解。"],["李委員彥秀：好，謝謝院長。副主委請回。","接下來我要請問有關NCC的問題。NCC的部分，我看好幾位委員已經問過了，因為今天已經是4月底，明天就是行政院院會，這件事情到現在還沒有具體的方向，請問院長，明天就是這個月的最後一次行政院院會，NCC委員的名單提不提得出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：我在之前的質詢中答復過，我說我希望在4月份能夠提出。"],["李委員彥秀：明天就是4月份的最後一次行政院院會了耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們在努力做這個事情，應該……"],["李委員彥秀：所以還沒有結論？明天還提不出來就對了？如果你今天還沒有辦法回答……"],["卓院長榮泰：明天……"],["李委員彥秀：我沒有要問你名單啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：明天是一個時間，我希望明天能夠達成，至少這個禮拜是沒有問題的。"],["李委員彥秀：好，院長，對不起，我想請教一下，關於這個事情，我看到您回答其他委員說，找人選其實遇到很多挑戰，這個部分的人選有跟賴總統討論過嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在找的過程中間都還沒有，但定案之前我會跟他報告這個人選。"],["李委員彥秀：其實NCC的人事是院長可以一手主導……"],["卓院長榮泰：是啦，但……"],["李委員彥秀：但是就您剛才回應的我就是，你有找到人，有跟賴總統做報告……"],["卓院長榮泰：定案之前我會跟他做一個說明。"],["李委員彥秀：好，院長，您說之前找人選碰到很多困難，我覺得之前如果是專業的社會碩彥，而且沒有太多外界的干擾，應該有很多專業人士願意進來，所以未來如何讓NCC的這些專業人才有獨立的空間，去做他該做的事情，我覺得是這些人願意留在這些位置上，也是未來我們立法院在做審查把關的過程當中很重要的指標，所以我們很期待看到明天的人選出來，也希望可以儘速解決NCC後續審查的問題。","因為我今天時間很趕，我接下來要問第三個議題，有關於特別預算的部分，這跟我剛剛提到的國家主權基金其實也有關係，如果國家主權基金有了，我們盈餘有了，我覺得舉債都不是問題，我們也不用去擔心財政上的困難，我也特別看到這幾天，包括主計長也好，或是院長或總統也特別在媒體上提到4,100億，我們不用舉債，是完全用過去8年來的歲計賸餘，是這樣子嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們這次特別條例當中所列的未來特別預算4,100億會全數用歷年的歲計賸餘。"],["李委員彥秀：好，也就是這4,100億完全不會舉債就對了？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["李委員彥秀：完全不會舉債？好，因為後面立法院也會後續做審查，剛才院長已經做很清楚的答復。我也關注到在國防軍備的部分，賴總統在媒體上有提到我們今年要達到GDP的3%，如果是3%，相當於差不多1,000億左右，關於這一點，國家需要的軍備預算，我們絕對支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：但是這裡也要錢，那裡也要錢，像那時候賴總統在提到國防軍備預算，我們今年應該想辦法達到GDP 3%的時候，還沒有關稅這件事情，也還沒有4,100億這件事情，國防預算在前，這個在後。所以看起來1,000億是一定要的，我們採購軍品的項目1,000億是確定了嗎？還是還會再更增加？院長，因為這都牽涉到我們後面審查，你4,100億等一下立院審完，後面又來個1,000億或2,000億，我們總要大概知道，整個立法院幫國家、人民把關預算，我們總是要知道最後到底要舉債多少錢。"],["卓院長榮泰：這次的特別條例列舉的4,100億當中，1,500億的國土安全韌性……"],["李委員彥秀：院長，我不是要知道這個，4,100億我知道了，我要問的是國防預算要達到GDP 3%，你講的這4,100億不用完全舉債，如果是達到GDP 3%的軍品，我們國防跟美國採購是要舉債的，還是也不用舉債？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果大筆的國防特別預算在今年度或是以後年度還要編列，可能會動到舉債，但現在還沒有進到……"],["李委員彥秀：我時間快到了，所以今年要舉債嗎？所以今年會送進來嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果今年會動到比較多常年度的國防特別預算的話，那麼有可能必須要舉債……"],["李委員彥秀：院長，你在說你不知道今年要不要……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是今年我們還沒有討論……"],["李委員彥秀：因為賴總統說今年要提軍備預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是現在我們還沒有討論到今年政府其他的特別預算……"],["李委員彥秀：還沒有討論到那邊？"],["卓院長榮泰：其他特別預算的案子還沒有討論，到現在為止。"],["李委員彥秀：好，所以預算規模也不清楚，包括軍品要採購的預算規模也不清楚？"],["卓院長榮泰：我想委員也清楚國防的預算不是我們想編多少買多少……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道、我知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：還要相對方的一些供應，所以……"],["李委員彥秀：報告院長，這個牽涉到我們在審財政預算，我們需要知道到底我們要舉債多少，而4,100億，我們到底要通過多少、國家財政可以負擔多少，這就是我們立法委員把關職責最重要的目的，所以我覺得這兩件事情……"],["卓院長榮泰：4,100億不會舉債，但是……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道。所以這兩件事情事實上是連動的，所以我們也知道……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我覺得國家現在財政還有相當大的舉債空間，是安全的。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，但是我們還是需要知道嘛！所以我們還是希望至少行政院要讓我們立法院……"],["卓院長榮泰：有進一步規劃的時候，會向大院報告。"],["李委員彥秀：知道一些進度跟時程……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["李委員彥秀：好，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李彥秀委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長備詢。","接下來請陳玉珍委員質詢，馬文君委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-9","speakers":["韓國瑜","廖偉翔","顏寬恒","李彥秀","陳玉珍","馬文君","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","黃珊珊","鍾佳濱","吳秉叡","沈發惠","許宇甄","李昆澤","林思銘","葛如鈞","許智傑","林倩綺","蔡其昌","吳沛憶","李坤城","丁學忠","劉書彬"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2025-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00004","1143901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143901_00004"}}}