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{\"start\": 334.219, \"end\": 336.62, \"text\": \"所以農民為了一點這樣的補助這些損害的設施他必須自己做處理 院長你想有可能嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 334.219, \"end\": 334.239, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 334.239, \"end\": 334.699, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 334.699, \"end\": 334.959, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 334.959, \"end\": 335.0, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 335.0, \"end\": 335.02, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 335.02, \"end\": 335.12, \"score\": 0.233}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 335.12, \"end\": 335.26, \"score\": 0.586}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 335.26, \"end\": 335.28, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 335.28, \"end\": 335.42, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 335.42, \"end\": 335.9, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, 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{\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"武\", \"start\": 957.673, \"end\": 957.793, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 957.793, \"end\": 957.813, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 957.813, \"end\": 957.833, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 957.833, \"end\": 957.853, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,163 --> 00:00:02,868\n謝謝主席麻煩請餘院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:15,594 --> 00:00:20,938\n院長早安院長剛剛我聽到陳玉珍委員在質詢的時候我認為我們的經濟部郭部長有嚴重的失言因為你的說法攸關我們2300萬人民的生命財產安全\n\n3\n00:00:33,304 --> 00:00:55,618\n第一集到底要怎麼樣定義不是由經濟部長說了算所以我們希望經濟部長把經濟搞好就好了現在我們今天想要先請教我們院長在今年極端氣候其實我們還是很關心農民我們之前也持續也在這裡問了很多次\n\n4\n00:00:56,138 --> 00:01:03,084\n那主要是今年極端氣候的部分造成劇烈的氣候變化那經常也會造成大規模的農業損害除了氣候農民還要對抗的還有我們的病蟲害還有種苗土壤的健康狀況等等所以我們可以看得到我們近年在整個農業災損的部分其實每年\n\n5\n00:01:20,337 --> 00:01:38,694\n編列的預算也一直在增加當然對農民來說是不無小補至少減少他們的損失可是我們也看到除了農損補助的預算不斷增加以外另外還有一個就是我們溫網市設施的補助溫網市從112年到115年我們大概編了13.7億4年的預算\n\n6\n00:01:44,400 --> 00:02:10,676\n要對農民做一些因為剛剛說到的嘛溫廣式你如果雨太大或者太陽太強或者像有霜害或者像有病蟲害溫廣式的搭設對很多的農作物其實是有幫助的所以我們在這一部分可以給農民這樣的補助當然對他們來說在整個成本上面他們可以降低而且可以種出更好的一些農產品而且還可以有比較\n\n7\n00:02:13,918 --> 00:02:31,199\n穩定的收益可是大部分的人當然還是拿不到我們可能升多收少沒有辦法一步到位可是就這個部分現在因為整個經濟的狀況還有很多的原物料的上漲成本增加等等那我們在\n\n8\n00:02:33,802 --> 00:02:57,024\n所有的溫網式的補助裡面大概有水平膨價網式簡易式的塑膠布還有結構型的鋼骨溫網式這個每公頃它都有不同的補助的金額那因應現在的所有的原物料的上漲還有很多都漲價的情況之下這個部分有沒有可能調高它每公頃補助的金額\n\n9\n00:02:58,681 --> 00:03:14,706\n我跟委員報告針對溫室的補助的部分包括六種最主要六種這種溫室的補助我們的那個補助的上限會每年滾動的調整會根據當年的物價還有它的結構的相關的材料去做一個調整\n\n10\n00:03:15,253 --> 00:03:35,796\n所以有可能就是了我們每年都會滾動調整那針對政府對於農民的各項補助這當然是好的我們也希望可以讓農民可以有更穩定的因為畢竟我們台灣還是以農立國的然後農業尤其在現階段其實他的基本的這些\n\n11\n00:03:37,017 --> 00:04:03,449\n我們所有的生產對我們整個國家安全還有韌性其實也是有正面幫助的可是當我們看到這些補助以外我們也看到它所衍生的問題比如說我們剛剛提到的這些溫暖室我們可以看到這些東西它不會爛不會壞也不會自然分解它也不能燒所以有時候當颱風來了以後它就有造成這個還是小的\n\n12\n00:04:04,850 --> 00:04:32,005\n他還有更多更大量的他完全沒有辦法去化農民也沒有辦法處理這個部分我們農業部目前有一個因應的方案嗎可以怎麼樣協助我跟委員報告針對農地所用的農模或塑膠部分我們現在一直在做一個資源回收再利用的一個做法特別我舉東石這邊東石我們有一個再循環的中心那他要跟地方政府\n\n13\n00:04:32,865 --> 00:04:47,033\n透過垃圾車或是部長我現在為什麼會提出來就是很你大概只提了東石可是其他大部分的地方其實是沒有辦法解決的比如像南投縣我們沒有焚化爐所以這尤其\n\n14\n00:04:51,716 --> 00:05:07,363\n南投的農民非常多你像屏東也是彰化也是雲林也是這些農業縣市其實農民非常的多那申請這些問往事的補助以後如果他們也想好好處理可是沒有辦法的情況之下有的可能會變成偷買有的人偷丟偷盜\n\n15\n00:05:11,405 --> 00:05:29,836\n這個對我們的環境影響是非常大的因為剛剛有提到他完全不能自然分解他也不會爛掉百年甚至更長的時間都不會所以這裡我們要求應該要有一個妥善的方案因為農民要處理這個他一噸大概至少兩萬塊兩萬塊不含運費喔你如果出生意不夠\n\n16\n00:05:34,219 --> 00:05:36,620\n所以農民為了一點這樣的補助這些損害的設施他必須自己做處理院長你想有可能嗎\n\n17\n00:05:55,750 --> 00:06:14,845\n我跟委員報告喔第一個就是這個塑膠布是不能丟到焚化爐的第二個部分就是我們會跟地方政府合作透過地方政府的擠運然後我們協助成立一個處理中心讓這些塑膠布或濃縫的部分可以再利用那這個部分我想在台中在南投我們也積極地會跟地方政府在一起溝通\n\n18\n00:06:15,585 --> 00:06:38,788\n我們希望盡快可以提出解決方案因為它既然不能進防化爐之前它是可以喔它要把它拆開要把它拆散變成很細微就變成好像塑膠粒所以農民沒有辦法處理部長希望在近期院長可以責成農業部我們希望在近期可以做到怎麼樣的程度\n\n19\n00:06:39,758 --> 00:07:03,348\n然後來協助農民解決這個部分而且我們也是國土永續經營的一個方向好不好謝謝謝謝那另外就是我們看到這麼多的補助另外一個就是農保我們已經連續好幾次的在總質詢的這裡我們已經有詢問過部長還有院長我們農保的問題我們因為我們任何一項政策\n\n20\n00:07:04,653 --> 00:07:19,131\n要保護的都是農民我們這一段時間以來我們聽到我們執政當局一直在對外說在野黨煽動了非常多的預算讓你們都沒有辦法做事\n\n21\n00:07:20,609 --> 00:07:35,754\n你們只是被煽動一年而且是部分的預算通過的還是非常高的預算可是這些農民他們繳了一輩子他們繳了三四十年當政府一刀砍的時候他就通通沒有了\n\n22\n00:07:36,454 --> 00:08:01,040\n我們只不過被砍了一年你大概都是都可以這樣他就是他已經不具農保身份了他應該有的保障沒了我們一直提到這個金額不多可是是看政府要不要解決他的人數也不是很多可是我們在這一次在外面聽到霸團居然可以拿這個說我們主張要讓有工商登記的農民來領我們的這個農保\n\n23\n00:08:06,488 --> 00:08:33,710\n這是糟蹋農民我們在詢問院長或部長的時候我們有說這些農民他們是不應該是應該的或不應該嗎而是希望政府去解決因為他們就是真的農民他們在沒有政府沒有那麼多補助的年代在沒有這麼多的農業積聚的年代他們靠的是人力酒酸漏水都是非常的辛苦他們辛辛苦苦一路走來到老的時候他們的農保沒了\n\n24\n00:08:36,272 --> 00:08:40,335\n他們也繳了那麼久不然你政府早就應該跟人家說你這個不符合農保資格這個部分我們不斷不斷地講我們不希望他拿來當成在政治上的攻防我再一次在這裡提出來希望政府可以解決這個部分好不好因為他就是真農民你本來這個政策是要針對假農民的可是你傷到的是誰\n\n25\n00:09:01,222 --> 00:09:12,808\n我跟委員報告第一件事情就是說工商登記的部分我們不會處理65歲以上所以也不會有所謂的農保不見的這個事情他只處理65歲以下部長我為什麼會一直講他人數不是我們那個2300萬人他也許是幾千人可是他就是現在還發生就是65歲以上就是已經被停了他就是拿不到商商補助費或其他的補助\n\n26\n00:09:30,057 --> 00:09:57,337\n我剛剛提到將心比心當你們被煽動一部分的時候我在去年12月份的時候已經通知所有的縣市政府針對65歲以上的他只要去把他的工商登記拿掉就可以了那個早就拿掉了地震我上一次舉例不是地震的時候就已經沒了嗎到現在他就是沒有部長如果你說已經重新那他可以重新加保啊他馬上加保第二天就可以連在一起啦\n\n27\n00:09:57,637 --> 00:10:13,625\n八十幾歲已經不需要重新加保了部長麻煩你了解以後我非常了解這個我非常了解院長麻煩統籌處理就了解狀況以後是不是有一個根本的解決辦法一定有一個什麼行為讓他的身份發生變化但是部長剛剛講了\n\n28\n00:10:15,286 --> 00:10:33,386\n65歲以上我們是不會把它取消有啦就取消了嘛你可以去叫所有的院長我們這不用在這裡爭執你下去以後下去以後詢問所有的農會把65歲以上被停掉的如果他可以\n\n29\n00:10:34,087 --> 00:10:41,835\n了解說他是真的農民是不是有一個方案來協助解決今天這個問題這個我回去就會做因為時間的關係我們希望院長我們已經談了那麼多次\n\n30\n00:10:48,983 --> 00:11:09,055\n幫幫他們幫幫農民早期的農民真的很辛苦我們現在我們剛剛提到的我們補助那麼多他們現在現在有些親農其實他們如果有現在創新的做法他們可以有比較好的收益他們不用像過去是在烈日底下以前沒有穿鞋子的時候怕低頭在那裹穿頭那種土壤都是用用鋤頭一鋤一鋤挖出來的\n\n31\n00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:44,278\n所以這個部分我們還是希望可以去了解看看能什麼協助好不好政策上已經不會剝奪他的權利如果說有一些個案或是案子或是部長他已經有一些個案好還蠻多的所以我才會不斷不斷的提如果是個案很少數我們也不需要在這裡提所以在這裡既然會拿來當成政治攻防那當然人數也是有一些啦院長因為時間的關係我們部長如果了解以後再跟院長\n\n32\n00:11:45,399 --> 00:11:48,242\n另外針對因應川普總統的關稅政策我們可能面臨的衝擊我們也要編列特別預算可是我們看到現在雖然時間是很短我們現在的這一筆4100億的特別預算裡面\n\n33\n00:12:08,961 --> 00:12:22,417\n讓大家看到會覺得說他夾帶了跟關稅無關的部分有高達六成我們不知道我們是怎麼去定義這個部分可是這4100億如果是希望可以在緊急的情況之下去因應這個關稅帶來的\n\n34\n00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:42,531\n所有的產業的衝擊我們應該要好好的就這個部分需運用我們的預算可是我們看到的不是我先舉一個例子來說好的我們在裡面大概有國土韌性波普台電經濟資源高教人才波普健保關懷弱勢還有波普勞保\n\n35\n00:12:43,692 --> 00:13:06,999\n那大概所佔的比例也不一可是經濟資源的部分就是我們這一次針對這個可能產業受到的衝擊大概只有23%930億那其他的還有可能涵蓋其他的部分那就國土韌性的部分因為是最高的他編了1500億我想要在這裡請教院長國土韌性的1500億他主要\n\n36\n00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:30,737\n在我們的資料裡面主要有兩個項目一個針對國防部還有一個大概就是海巡署1500億裡面國防部大概佔了960億海巡署是540億我想請教在國防部的這個部分其中這960億裡面又有一個\n\n37\n00:13:34,226 --> 00:14:03,492\n要強化國土安全韌性的部分它是整建各式庫儲設施就要400億為什麼我要特別提出來我想要請教院長這400億要做這個庫儲設施是什麼東西我們每年的預算都有庫儲設施喔強化韌性的1500億這當中矽目的這個項目到目前為止我們還在做最後的統統\n\n38\n00:14:05,098 --> 00:14:18,564\n的計算當中那其中比方說新建的巡防艦艇還有這一些這個海岸徵收提升立體徵收的這個工作這個未來對於席產地反傾銷以及違規轉運\n\n39\n00:14:22,403 --> 00:14:37,530\n主司都有強力的打擊作用這個不能說跟關稅毫無相關台電的一千億我再度為產業請命您聽我說您剛剛提到的說反傾銷什麼這些可是你在裡面編列的是要買無人機\n\n40\n00:14:38,610 --> 00:14:41,892\n然後我剛剛詢問的主要是庫儲設施為什麼要編400億因為我們每年在公開的我們在我們的正式的預算裡面其實每年都有庫儲設施的整建\n\n41\n00:14:54,821 --> 00:15:03,845\n每年入海空加起來平均大概就是2到2.3億111年的是1億9112年2億3113年2億114年是2億3就是說他就是在2億出頭這個部分那你現在突然暴增到400億你大概要用3年嘛平均\n\n42\n00:15:21,008 --> 00:15:25,972\n在特別預算懲罰的過程當中去定位相控\n\n43\n00:15:28,553 --> 00:15:52,321\n因為因為時間到了這個部分我們希望還是可以從兩億變成四百億我們不知道他是要做什麼而且很重要的在特別預算裡面他是限制性招標這個部分我們希望應該要說明而且也讓大家沒有沒有限制性招標\n\n44\n00:15:55,708 --> 00:15:57,853\n好謝謝馬文晶委員質詢謝謝卓院長部會所長的備詢謝謝接下來登記26號武力華委員質詢改為\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1163\t2868\t謝謝主席 麻煩請餘院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n15594\t20938\t院長早安院長剛剛我聽到陳玉珍委員在質詢的時候我認為我們的經濟部郭部長有嚴重的失言因為你的說法攸關我們2300萬人民的生命財產安全\n33304\t55618\t第一集到底要怎麼樣定義不是由經濟部長說了算所以我們希望經濟部長把經濟搞好就好了現在我們今天想要先請教我們院長在今年極端氣候其實我們還是很關心農民我們之前也持續也在這裡問了很多次\n56138\t63084\t那主要是今年極端氣候的部分造成劇烈的氣候變化那經常也會造成大規模的農業損害除了氣候農民還要對抗的還有我們的病蟲害還有種苗土壤的健康狀況等等所以我們可以看得到我們近年在整個農業災損的部分其實每年\n80337\t98694\t編列的預算也一直在增加當然對農民來說是不無小補至少減少他們的損失可是我們也看到除了農損補助的預算不斷增加以外另外還有一個就是我們溫網市設施的補助溫網市從112年到115年我們大概編了13.7億4年的預算\n104400\t130676\t要對農民做一些因為剛剛說到的嘛溫廣式你如果雨太大或者太陽太強或者像有霜害或者像有病蟲害溫廣式的搭設對很多的農作物其實是有幫助的所以我們在這一部分可以給農民這樣的補助當然對他們來說在整個成本上面他們可以降低而且可以種出更好的一些農產品而且還可以有比較\n133918\t151199\t穩定的收益可是大部分的人當然還是拿不到我們可能升多收少沒有辦法一步到位可是就這個部分現在因為整個經濟的狀況還有很多的原物料的上漲成本增加等等那我們在\n153802\t177024\t所有的溫網式的補助裡面大概有水平膨價網式簡易式的塑膠布還有結構型的鋼骨溫網式這個每公頃它都有不同的補助的金額那因應現在的所有的原物料的上漲還有很多都漲價的情況之下這個部分有沒有可能調高它每公頃補助的金額\n178681\t194706\t我跟委員報告針對溫室的補助的部分包括六種最主要六種這種溫室的補助我們的那個補助的上限會每年滾動的調整會根據當年的物價還有它的結構的相關的材料去做一個調整\n195253\t215796\t所以有可能就是了我們每年都會滾動調整那針對政府對於農民的各項補助這當然是好的我們也希望可以讓農民可以有更穩定的因為畢竟我們台灣還是以農立國的然後農業尤其在現階段其實他的基本的這些\n217017\t243449\t我們所有的生產對我們整個國家安全還有韌性其實也是有正面幫助的可是當我們看到這些補助以外我們也看到它所衍生的問題比如說我們剛剛提到的這些溫暖室我們可以看到這些東西它不會爛不會壞也不會自然分解它也不能燒所以有時候當颱風來了以後它就有造成這個還是小的\n244850\t272005\t他還有更多更大量的他完全沒有辦法去化農民也沒有辦法處理這個部分我們農業部目前有一個因應的方案嗎可以怎麼樣協助我跟委員報告針對農地所用的農模或塑膠部分我們現在一直在做一個資源回收再利用的一個做法特別我舉東石這邊東石我們有一個再循環的中心那他要跟地方政府\n272865\t287033\t透過垃圾車或是部長我現在為什麼會提出來就是很你大概只提了東石可是其他大部分的地方其實是沒有辦法解決的比如像南投縣我們沒有焚化爐所以這尤其\n291716\t307363\t南投的農民非常多你像屏東也是彰化也是雲林也是這些農業縣市其實農民非常的多那申請這些問往事的補助以後如果他們也想好好處理可是沒有辦法的情況之下有的可能會變成偷買有的人偷丟偷盜\n311405\t329836\t這個對我們的環境影響是非常大的因為剛剛有提到他完全不能自然分解他也不會爛掉百年甚至更長的時間都不會所以這裡我們要求應該要有一個妥善的方案因為農民要處理這個他一噸大概至少兩萬塊兩萬塊不含運費喔你如果出生意不夠\n334219\t336620\t所以農民為了一點這樣的補助這些損害的設施他必須自己做處理 院長你想有可能嗎\n355750\t374845\t我跟委員報告喔第一個就是這個塑膠布是不能丟到焚化爐的第二個部分就是我們會跟地方政府合作透過地方政府的擠運然後我們協助成立一個處理中心讓這些塑膠布或濃縫的部分可以再利用那這個部分我想在台中在南投我們也積極地會跟地方政府在一起溝通\n375585\t398788\t我們希望盡快可以提出解決方案因為它既然不能進防化爐之前它是可以喔它要把它拆開要把它拆散變成很細微就變成好像塑膠粒所以農民沒有辦法處理部長希望在近期院長可以責成農業部我們希望在近期可以做到怎麼樣的程度\n399758\t423348\t然後來協助農民解決這個部分而且我們也是國土永續經營的一個方向好不好謝謝謝謝那另外就是我們看到這麼多的補助另外一個就是農保我們已經連續好幾次的在總質詢的這裡我們已經有詢問過部長還有院長我們農保的問題我們因為我們任何一項政策\n424653\t439131\t要保護的都是農民我們這一段時間以來我們聽到我們執政當局一直在對外說在野黨煽動了非常多的預算讓你們都沒有辦法做事\n440609\t455754\t你們只是被煽動一年而且是部分的預算通過的還是非常高的預算可是這些農民他們繳了一輩子他們繳了三四十年當政府一刀砍的時候他就通通沒有了\n456454\t481040\t我們只不過被砍了一年你大概都是都可以這樣他就是他已經不具農保身份了他應該有的保障沒了我們一直提到這個金額不多可是是看政府要不要解決他的人數也不是很多可是我們在這一次在外面聽到霸團居然可以拿這個說我們主張要讓有工商登記的農民來領我們的這個農保\n486488\t513710\t這是糟蹋農民我們在詢問院長或部長的時候我們有說這些農民他們是不應該是應該的或不應該嗎而是希望政府去解決因為他們就是真的農民他們在沒有政府沒有那麼多補助的年代在沒有這麼多的農業積聚的年代他們靠的是人力酒酸漏水都是非常的辛苦他們辛辛苦苦一路走來到老的時候他們的農保沒了\n516272\t520335\t他們也繳了那麼久 不然你政府早就應該跟人家說你這個不符合農保資格這個部分我們不斷不斷地講我們不希望他拿來當成在政治上的攻防我再一次在這裡提出來希望政府可以解決這個部分好不好 因為他就是真農民你本來這個政策是要針對假農民的 可是你傷到的是誰\n541222\t552808\t我跟委員報告第一件事情就是說工商登記的部分我們不會處理65歲以上所以也不會有所謂的農保不見的這個事情他只處理65歲以下部長我為什麼會一直講他人數不是我們那個2300萬人他也許是幾千人可是他就是現在還發生就是65歲以上就是已經被停了他就是拿不到商商補助費或其他的補助\n570057\t597337\t我剛剛提到將心比心 當你們被煽動一部分的時候我在去年12月份的時候已經通知所有的縣市政府針對65歲以上的他只要去把他的工商登記拿掉就可以了那個早就拿掉了 地震我上一次舉例不是地震的時候就已經沒了嗎到現在他就是沒有部長 如果你說已經重新那他可以重新加保啊他馬上加保 第二天就可以連在一起啦\n597637\t613625\t八十幾歲已經不需要重新加保了部長麻煩你了解以後我非常了解這個我非常了解院長麻煩統籌處理就了解狀況以後是不是有一個根本的解決辦法一定有一個什麼行為讓他的身份發生變化但是部長剛剛講了\n615286\t633386\t65歲以上我們是不會把它取消有啦 就取消了嘛你可以去叫所有的院長我們這不用在這裡爭執你下去以後下去以後詢問所有的農會把65歲以上被停掉的如果他可以\n634087\t641835\t了解說他是真的農民是不是有一個方案來協助解決今天這個問題這個我回去就會做因為時間的關係我們希望院長我們已經談了那麼多次\n648983\t669055\t幫幫他們幫幫農民早期的農民真的很辛苦我們現在我們剛剛提到的我們補助那麼多他們現在現在有些親農其實他們如果有現在創新的做法他們可以有比較好的收益他們不用像過去是在烈日底下以前沒有穿鞋子的時候怕低頭在那裹穿頭那種土壤都是用用鋤頭一鋤一鋤挖出來的\n676640\t704278\t所以這個部分我們還是希望可以去了解看看能什麼協助好不好政策上已經不會剝奪他的權利如果說有一些個案或是案子或是部長他已經有一些個案好還蠻多的所以我才會不斷不斷的提如果是個案很少數我們也不需要在這裡提所以在這裡既然會拿來當成政治攻防那當然人數也是有一些啦院長因為時間的關係我們部長如果了解以後再跟院長\n705399\t708242\t另外針對因應川普總統的關稅政策我們可能面臨的衝擊我們也要編列特別預算可是我們看到現在雖然時間是很短我們現在的這一筆4100億的特別預算裡面\n728961\t742417\t讓大家看到會覺得說他夾帶了跟關稅無關的部分有高達六成我們不知道我們是怎麼去定義這個部分可是這4100億如果是希望可以在緊急的情況之下去因應這個關稅帶來的\n745100\t762531\t所有的產業的衝擊我們應該要好好的就這個部分需運用我們的預算可是我們看到的不是我先舉一個例子來說好的我們在裡面大概有國土韌性波普台電經濟資源高教人才波普健保關懷弱勢還有波普勞保\n763692\t786999\t那大概所佔的比例也不一可是經濟資源的部分就是我們這一次針對這個可能產業受到的衝擊大概只有23% 930億那其他的還有可能涵蓋其他的部分那就國土韌性的部分因為是最高的他編了1500億我想要在這裡請教院長國土韌性的1500億他主要\n790880\t810737\t在我們的資料裡面主要有兩個項目一個針對國防部還有一個大概就是海巡署1500億裡面國防部大概佔了960億海巡署是540億我想請教在國防部的這個部分其中這960億裡面又有一個\n814226\t843492\t要強化國土安全韌性的部分它是整建各式庫儲設施就要400億為什麼我要特別提出來我想要請教院長這400億要做這個庫儲設施是什麼東西我們每年的預算都有庫儲設施喔強化韌性的1500億這當中矽目的這個項目到目前為止我們還在做最後的統統\n845098\t858564\t的計算當中那其中比方說新建的巡防艦艇還有這一些這個海岸徵收提升立體徵收的這個工作這個未來對於席產地反傾銷以及違規轉運\n862403\t877530\t主司都有強力的打擊作用這個不能說跟關稅毫無相關台電的一千億我再度為產業請命您聽我說您剛剛提到的說反傾銷什麼這些可是你在裡面編列的是要買無人機\n878610\t881892\t然後我剛剛詢問的主要是庫儲設施為什麼要編400億因為我們每年在公開的 我們在我們的正式的預算裡面其實每年都有庫儲設施的整建\n894821\t903845\t每年入海空加起來平均大概就是2到2.3億111年的是1億9112年2億3113年2億114年是2億3就是說他就是在2億出頭這個部分那你現在突然暴增到400億你大概要用3年嘛平均\n921008\t925972\t在特別預算懲罰的過程當中去定位相控\n928553\t952321\t因為因為時間到了這個部分我們希望還是可以從兩億變成四百億我們不知道他是要做什麼而且很重要的在特別預算裡面他是限制性招標這個部分我們希望應該要說明而且也讓大家沒有沒有限制性招標\n955708\t957853\t好 謝謝馬文晶委員質詢謝謝卓院長部會所長的備詢 謝謝接下來登記26號武力華委員質詢改為\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩請餘院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n院長早安院長剛剛我聽到陳玉珍委員在質詢的時候我認為我們的經濟部郭部長有嚴重的失言因為你的說法攸關我們2300萬人民的生命財產安全\n第一集到底要怎麼樣定義不是由經濟部長說了算所以我們希望經濟部長把經濟搞好就好了現在我們今天想要先請教我們院長在今年極端氣候其實我們還是很關心農民我們之前也持續也在這裡問了很多次\n那主要是今年極端氣候的部分造成劇烈的氣候變化那經常也會造成大規模的農業損害除了氣候農民還要對抗的還有我們的病蟲害還有種苗土壤的健康狀況等等所以我們可以看得到我們近年在整個農業災損的部分其實每年\n編列的預算也一直在增加當然對農民來說是不無小補至少減少他們的損失可是我們也看到除了農損補助的預算不斷增加以外另外還有一個就是我們溫網市設施的補助溫網市從112年到115年我們大概編了13.7億4年的預算\n要對農民做一些因為剛剛說到的嘛溫廣式你如果雨太大或者太陽太強或者像有霜害或者像有病蟲害溫廣式的搭設對很多的農作物其實是有幫助的所以我們在這一部分可以給農民這樣的補助當然對他們來說在整個成本上面他們可以降低而且可以種出更好的一些農產品而且還可以有比較\n穩定的收益可是大部分的人當然還是拿不到我們可能升多收少沒有辦法一步到位可是就這個部分現在因為整個經濟的狀況還有很多的原物料的上漲成本增加等等那我們在\n所有的溫網式的補助裡面大概有水平膨價網式簡易式的塑膠布還有結構型的鋼骨溫網式這個每公頃它都有不同的補助的金額那因應現在的所有的原物料的上漲還有很多都漲價的情況之下這個部分有沒有可能調高它每公頃補助的金額\n我跟委員報告針對溫室的補助的部分包括六種最主要六種這種溫室的補助我們的那個補助的上限會每年滾動的調整會根據當年的物價還有它的結構的相關的材料去做一個調整\n所以有可能就是了我們每年都會滾動調整那針對政府對於農民的各項補助這當然是好的我們也希望可以讓農民可以有更穩定的因為畢竟我們台灣還是以農立國的然後農業尤其在現階段其實他的基本的這些\n我們所有的生產對我們整個國家安全還有韌性其實也是有正面幫助的可是當我們看到這些補助以外我們也看到它所衍生的問題比如說我們剛剛提到的這些溫暖室我們可以看到這些東西它不會爛不會壞也不會自然分解它也不能燒所以有時候當颱風來了以後它就有造成這個還是小的\n他還有更多更大量的他完全沒有辦法去化農民也沒有辦法處理這個部分我們農業部目前有一個因應的方案嗎可以怎麼樣協助我跟委員報告針對農地所用的農模或塑膠部分我們現在一直在做一個資源回收再利用的一個做法特別我舉東石這邊東石我們有一個再循環的中心那他要跟地方政府\n透過垃圾車或是部長我現在為什麼會提出來就是很你大概只提了東石可是其他大部分的地方其實是沒有辦法解決的比如像南投縣我們沒有焚化爐所以這尤其\n南投的農民非常多你像屏東也是彰化也是雲林也是這些農業縣市其實農民非常的多那申請這些問往事的補助以後如果他們也想好好處理可是沒有辦法的情況之下有的可能會變成偷買有的人偷丟偷盜\n這個對我們的環境影響是非常大的因為剛剛有提到他完全不能自然分解他也不會爛掉百年甚至更長的時間都不會所以這裡我們要求應該要有一個妥善的方案因為農民要處理這個他一噸大概至少兩萬塊兩萬塊不含運費喔你如果出生意不夠\n所以農民為了一點這樣的補助這些損害的設施他必須自己做處理 院長你想有可能嗎\n我跟委員報告喔第一個就是這個塑膠布是不能丟到焚化爐的第二個部分就是我們會跟地方政府合作透過地方政府的擠運然後我們協助成立一個處理中心讓這些塑膠布或濃縫的部分可以再利用那這個部分我想在台中在南投我們也積極地會跟地方政府在一起溝通\n我們希望盡快可以提出解決方案因為它既然不能進防化爐之前它是可以喔它要把它拆開要把它拆散變成很細微就變成好像塑膠粒所以農民沒有辦法處理部長希望在近期院長可以責成農業部我們希望在近期可以做到怎麼樣的程度\n然後來協助農民解決這個部分而且我們也是國土永續經營的一個方向好不好謝謝謝謝那另外就是我們看到這麼多的補助另外一個就是農保我們已經連續好幾次的在總質詢的這裡我們已經有詢問過部長還有院長我們農保的問題我們因為我們任何一項政策\n要保護的都是農民我們這一段時間以來我們聽到我們執政當局一直在對外說在野黨煽動了非常多的預算讓你們都沒有辦法做事\n你們只是被煽動一年而且是部分的預算通過的還是非常高的預算可是這些農民他們繳了一輩子他們繳了三四十年當政府一刀砍的時候他就通通沒有了\n我們只不過被砍了一年你大概都是都可以這樣他就是他已經不具農保身份了他應該有的保障沒了我們一直提到這個金額不多可是是看政府要不要解決他的人數也不是很多可是我們在這一次在外面聽到霸團居然可以拿這個說我們主張要讓有工商登記的農民來領我們的這個農保\n這是糟蹋農民我們在詢問院長或部長的時候我們有說這些農民他們是不應該是應該的或不應該嗎而是希望政府去解決因為他們就是真的農民他們在沒有政府沒有那麼多補助的年代在沒有這麼多的農業積聚的年代他們靠的是人力酒酸漏水都是非常的辛苦他們辛辛苦苦一路走來到老的時候他們的農保沒了\n他們也繳了那麼久 不然你政府早就應該跟人家說你這個不符合農保資格這個部分我們不斷不斷地講我們不希望他拿來當成在政治上的攻防我再一次在這裡提出來希望政府可以解決這個部分好不好 因為他就是真農民你本來這個政策是要針對假農民的 可是你傷到的是誰\n我跟委員報告第一件事情就是說工商登記的部分我們不會處理65歲以上所以也不會有所謂的農保不見的這個事情他只處理65歲以下部長我為什麼會一直講他人數不是我們那個2300萬人他也許是幾千人可是他就是現在還發生就是65歲以上就是已經被停了他就是拿不到商商補助費或其他的補助\n我剛剛提到將心比心 當你們被煽動一部分的時候我在去年12月份的時候已經通知所有的縣市政府針對65歲以上的他只要去把他的工商登記拿掉就可以了那個早就拿掉了 地震我上一次舉例不是地震的時候就已經沒了嗎到現在他就是沒有部長 如果你說已經重新那他可以重新加保啊他馬上加保 第二天就可以連在一起啦\n八十幾歲已經不需要重新加保了部長麻煩你了解以後我非常了解這個我非常了解院長麻煩統籌處理就了解狀況以後是不是有一個根本的解決辦法一定有一個什麼行為讓他的身份發生變化但是部長剛剛講了\n65歲以上我們是不會把它取消有啦 就取消了嘛你可以去叫所有的院長我們這不用在這裡爭執你下去以後下去以後詢問所有的農會把65歲以上被停掉的如果他可以\n了解說他是真的農民是不是有一個方案來協助解決今天這個問題這個我回去就會做因為時間的關係我們希望院長我們已經談了那麼多次\n幫幫他們幫幫農民早期的農民真的很辛苦我們現在我們剛剛提到的我們補助那麼多他們現在現在有些親農其實他們如果有現在創新的做法他們可以有比較好的收益他們不用像過去是在烈日底下以前沒有穿鞋子的時候怕低頭在那裹穿頭那種土壤都是用用鋤頭一鋤一鋤挖出來的\n所以這個部分我們還是希望可以去了解看看能什麼協助好不好政策上已經不會剝奪他的權利如果說有一些個案或是案子或是部長他已經有一些個案好還蠻多的所以我才會不斷不斷的提如果是個案很少數我們也不需要在這裡提所以在這裡既然會拿來當成政治攻防那當然人數也是有一些啦院長因為時間的關係我們部長如果了解以後再跟院長\n另外針對因應川普總統的關稅政策我們可能面臨的衝擊我們也要編列特別預算可是我們看到現在雖然時間是很短我們現在的這一筆4100億的特別預算裡面\n讓大家看到會覺得說他夾帶了跟關稅無關的部分有高達六成我們不知道我們是怎麼去定義這個部分可是這4100億如果是希望可以在緊急的情況之下去因應這個關稅帶來的\n所有的產業的衝擊我們應該要好好的就這個部分需運用我們的預算可是我們看到的不是我先舉一個例子來說好的我們在裡面大概有國土韌性波普台電經濟資源高教人才波普健保關懷弱勢還有波普勞保\n那大概所佔的比例也不一可是經濟資源的部分就是我們這一次針對這個可能產業受到的衝擊大概只有23% 930億那其他的還有可能涵蓋其他的部分那就國土韌性的部分因為是最高的他編了1500億我想要在這裡請教院長國土韌性的1500億他主要\n在我們的資料裡面主要有兩個項目一個針對國防部還有一個大概就是海巡署1500億裡面國防部大概佔了960億海巡署是540億我想請教在國防部的這個部分其中這960億裡面又有一個\n要強化國土安全韌性的部分它是整建各式庫儲設施就要400億為什麼我要特別提出來我想要請教院長這400億要做這個庫儲設施是什麼東西我們每年的預算都有庫儲設施喔強化韌性的1500億這當中矽目的這個項目到目前為止我們還在做最後的統統\n的計算當中那其中比方說新建的巡防艦艇還有這一些這個海岸徵收提升立體徵收的這個工作這個未來對於席產地反傾銷以及違規轉運\n主司都有強力的打擊作用這個不能說跟關稅毫無相關台電的一千億我再度為產業請命您聽我說您剛剛提到的說反傾銷什麼這些可是你在裡面編列的是要買無人機\n然後我剛剛詢問的主要是庫儲設施為什麼要編400億因為我們每年在公開的 我們在我們的正式的預算裡面其實每年都有庫儲設施的整建\n每年入海空加起來平均大概就是2到2.3億111年的是1億9112年2億3113年2億114年是2億3就是說他就是在2億出頭這個部分那你現在突然暴增到400億你大概要用3年嘛平均\n在特別預算懲罰的過程當中去定位相控\n因為因為時間到了這個部分我們希望還是可以從兩億變成四百億我們不知道他是要做什麼而且很重要的在特別預算裡面他是限制性招標這個部分我們希望應該要說明而且也讓大家沒有沒有限制性招標\n好 謝謝馬文晶委員質詢謝謝卓院長部會所長的備詢 謝謝接下來登記26號武力華委員質詢改為\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.163 --> 00:02.868\n謝謝主席麻煩請餘院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:15.594 --> 00:20.938\n院長早安院長剛剛我聽到陳玉珍委員在質詢的時候我認為我們的經濟部郭部長有嚴重的失言因為你的說法攸關我們2300萬人民的生命財產安全\n\n00:33.304 --> 00:55.618\n第一集到底要怎麼樣定義不是由經濟部長說了算所以我們希望經濟部長把經濟搞好就好了現在我們今天想要先請教我們院長在今年極端氣候其實我們還是很關心農民我們之前也持續也在這裡問了很多次\n\n00:56.138 --> 01:03.084\n那主要是今年極端氣候的部分造成劇烈的氣候變化那經常也會造成大規模的農業損害除了氣候農民還要對抗的還有我們的病蟲害還有種苗土壤的健康狀況等等所以我們可以看得到我們近年在整個農業災損的部分其實每年\n\n01:20.337 --> 01:38.694\n編列的預算也一直在增加當然對農民來說是不無小補至少減少他們的損失可是我們也看到除了農損補助的預算不斷增加以外另外還有一個就是我們溫網市設施的補助溫網市從112年到115年我們大概編了13.7億4年的預算\n\n01:44.400 --> 02:10.676\n要對農民做一些因為剛剛說到的嘛溫廣式你如果雨太大或者太陽太強或者像有霜害或者像有病蟲害溫廣式的搭設對很多的農作物其實是有幫助的所以我們在這一部分可以給農民這樣的補助當然對他們來說在整個成本上面他們可以降低而且可以種出更好的一些農產品而且還可以有比較\n\n02:13.918 --> 02:31.199\n穩定的收益可是大部分的人當然還是拿不到我們可能升多收少沒有辦法一步到位可是就這個部分現在因為整個經濟的狀況還有很多的原物料的上漲成本增加等等那我們在\n\n02:33.802 --> 02:57.024\n所有的溫網式的補助裡面大概有水平膨價網式簡易式的塑膠布還有結構型的鋼骨溫網式這個每公頃它都有不同的補助的金額那因應現在的所有的原物料的上漲還有很多都漲價的情況之下這個部分有沒有可能調高它每公頃補助的金額\n\n02:58.681 --> 03:14.706\n我跟委員報告針對溫室的補助的部分包括六種最主要六種這種溫室的補助我們的那個補助的上限會每年滾動的調整會根據當年的物價還有它的結構的相關的材料去做一個調整\n\n03:15.253 --> 03:35.796\n所以有可能就是了我們每年都會滾動調整那針對政府對於農民的各項補助這當然是好的我們也希望可以讓農民可以有更穩定的因為畢竟我們台灣還是以農立國的然後農業尤其在現階段其實他的基本的這些\n\n03:37.017 --> 04:03.449\n我們所有的生產對我們整個國家安全還有韌性其實也是有正面幫助的可是當我們看到這些補助以外我們也看到它所衍生的問題比如說我們剛剛提到的這些溫暖室我們可以看到這些東西它不會爛不會壞也不會自然分解它也不能燒所以有時候當颱風來了以後它就有造成這個還是小的\n\n04:04.850 --> 04:32.005\n他還有更多更大量的他完全沒有辦法去化農民也沒有辦法處理這個部分我們農業部目前有一個因應的方案嗎可以怎麼樣協助我跟委員報告針對農地所用的農模或塑膠部分我們現在一直在做一個資源回收再利用的一個做法特別我舉東石這邊東石我們有一個再循環的中心那他要跟地方政府\n\n04:32.865 --> 04:47.033\n透過垃圾車或是部長我現在為什麼會提出來就是很你大概只提了東石可是其他大部分的地方其實是沒有辦法解決的比如像南投縣我們沒有焚化爐所以這尤其\n\n04:51.716 --> 05:07.363\n南投的農民非常多你像屏東也是彰化也是雲林也是這些農業縣市其實農民非常的多那申請這些問往事的補助以後如果他們也想好好處理可是沒有辦法的情況之下有的可能會變成偷買有的人偷丟偷盜\n\n05:11.405 --> 05:29.836\n這個對我們的環境影響是非常大的因為剛剛有提到他完全不能自然分解他也不會爛掉百年甚至更長的時間都不會所以這裡我們要求應該要有一個妥善的方案因為農民要處理這個他一噸大概至少兩萬塊兩萬塊不含運費喔你如果出生意不夠\n\n05:34.219 --> 05:36.620\n所以農民為了一點這樣的補助這些損害的設施他必須自己做處理院長你想有可能嗎\n\n05:55.750 --> 06:14.845\n我跟委員報告喔第一個就是這個塑膠布是不能丟到焚化爐的第二個部分就是我們會跟地方政府合作透過地方政府的擠運然後我們協助成立一個處理中心讓這些塑膠布或濃縫的部分可以再利用那這個部分我想在台中在南投我們也積極地會跟地方政府在一起溝通\n\n06:15.585 --> 06:38.788\n我們希望盡快可以提出解決方案因為它既然不能進防化爐之前它是可以喔它要把它拆開要把它拆散變成很細微就變成好像塑膠粒所以農民沒有辦法處理部長希望在近期院長可以責成農業部我們希望在近期可以做到怎麼樣的程度\n\n06:39.758 --> 07:03.348\n然後來協助農民解決這個部分而且我們也是國土永續經營的一個方向好不好謝謝謝謝那另外就是我們看到這麼多的補助另外一個就是農保我們已經連續好幾次的在總質詢的這裡我們已經有詢問過部長還有院長我們農保的問題我們因為我們任何一項政策\n\n07:04.653 --> 07:19.131\n要保護的都是農民我們這一段時間以來我們聽到我們執政當局一直在對外說在野黨煽動了非常多的預算讓你們都沒有辦法做事\n\n07:20.609 --> 07:35.754\n你們只是被煽動一年而且是部分的預算通過的還是非常高的預算可是這些農民他們繳了一輩子他們繳了三四十年當政府一刀砍的時候他就通通沒有了\n\n07:36.454 --> 08:01.040\n我們只不過被砍了一年你大概都是都可以這樣他就是他已經不具農保身份了他應該有的保障沒了我們一直提到這個金額不多可是是看政府要不要解決他的人數也不是很多可是我們在這一次在外面聽到霸團居然可以拿這個說我們主張要讓有工商登記的農民來領我們的這個農保\n\n08:06.488 --> 08:33.710\n這是糟蹋農民我們在詢問院長或部長的時候我們有說這些農民他們是不應該是應該的或不應該嗎而是希望政府去解決因為他們就是真的農民他們在沒有政府沒有那麼多補助的年代在沒有這麼多的農業積聚的年代他們靠的是人力酒酸漏水都是非常的辛苦他們辛辛苦苦一路走來到老的時候他們的農保沒了\n\n08:36.272 --> 08:40.335\n他們也繳了那麼久不然你政府早就應該跟人家說你這個不符合農保資格這個部分我們不斷不斷地講我們不希望他拿來當成在政治上的攻防我再一次在這裡提出來希望政府可以解決這個部分好不好因為他就是真農民你本來這個政策是要針對假農民的可是你傷到的是誰\n\n09:01.222 --> 09:12.808\n我跟委員報告第一件事情就是說工商登記的部分我們不會處理65歲以上所以也不會有所謂的農保不見的這個事情他只處理65歲以下部長我為什麼會一直講他人數不是我們那個2300萬人他也許是幾千人可是他就是現在還發生就是65歲以上就是已經被停了他就是拿不到商商補助費或其他的補助\n\n09:30.057 --> 09:57.337\n我剛剛提到將心比心當你們被煽動一部分的時候我在去年12月份的時候已經通知所有的縣市政府針對65歲以上的他只要去把他的工商登記拿掉就可以了那個早就拿掉了地震我上一次舉例不是地震的時候就已經沒了嗎到現在他就是沒有部長如果你說已經重新那他可以重新加保啊他馬上加保第二天就可以連在一起啦\n\n09:57.637 --> 10:13.625\n八十幾歲已經不需要重新加保了部長麻煩你了解以後我非常了解這個我非常了解院長麻煩統籌處理就了解狀況以後是不是有一個根本的解決辦法一定有一個什麼行為讓他的身份發生變化但是部長剛剛講了\n\n10:15.286 --> 10:33.386\n65歲以上我們是不會把它取消有啦就取消了嘛你可以去叫所有的院長我們這不用在這裡爭執你下去以後下去以後詢問所有的農會把65歲以上被停掉的如果他可以\n\n10:34.087 --> 10:41.835\n了解說他是真的農民是不是有一個方案來協助解決今天這個問題這個我回去就會做因為時間的關係我們希望院長我們已經談了那麼多次\n\n10:48.983 --> 11:09.055\n幫幫他們幫幫農民早期的農民真的很辛苦我們現在我們剛剛提到的我們補助那麼多他們現在現在有些親農其實他們如果有現在創新的做法他們可以有比較好的收益他們不用像過去是在烈日底下以前沒有穿鞋子的時候怕低頭在那裹穿頭那種土壤都是用用鋤頭一鋤一鋤挖出來的\n\n11:16.640 --> 11:44.278\n所以這個部分我們還是希望可以去了解看看能什麼協助好不好政策上已經不會剝奪他的權利如果說有一些個案或是案子或是部長他已經有一些個案好還蠻多的所以我才會不斷不斷的提如果是個案很少數我們也不需要在這裡提所以在這裡既然會拿來當成政治攻防那當然人數也是有一些啦院長因為時間的關係我們部長如果了解以後再跟院長\n\n11:45.399 --> 11:48.242\n另外針對因應川普總統的關稅政策我們可能面臨的衝擊我們也要編列特別預算可是我們看到現在雖然時間是很短我們現在的這一筆4100億的特別預算裡面\n\n12:08.961 --> 12:22.417\n讓大家看到會覺得說他夾帶了跟關稅無關的部分有高達六成我們不知道我們是怎麼去定義這個部分可是這4100億如果是希望可以在緊急的情況之下去因應這個關稅帶來的\n\n12:25.100 --> 12:42.531\n所有的產業的衝擊我們應該要好好的就這個部分需運用我們的預算可是我們看到的不是我先舉一個例子來說好的我們在裡面大概有國土韌性波普台電經濟資源高教人才波普健保關懷弱勢還有波普勞保\n\n12:43.692 --> 13:06.999\n那大概所佔的比例也不一可是經濟資源的部分就是我們這一次針對這個可能產業受到的衝擊大概只有23%930億那其他的還有可能涵蓋其他的部分那就國土韌性的部分因為是最高的他編了1500億我想要在這裡請教院長國土韌性的1500億他主要\n\n13:10.880 --> 13:30.737\n在我們的資料裡面主要有兩個項目一個針對國防部還有一個大概就是海巡署1500億裡面國防部大概佔了960億海巡署是540億我想請教在國防部的這個部分其中這960億裡面又有一個\n\n13:34.226 --> 14:03.492\n要強化國土安全韌性的部分它是整建各式庫儲設施就要400億為什麼我要特別提出來我想要請教院長這400億要做這個庫儲設施是什麼東西我們每年的預算都有庫儲設施喔強化韌性的1500億這當中矽目的這個項目到目前為止我們還在做最後的統統\n\n14:05.098 --> 14:18.564\n的計算當中那其中比方說新建的巡防艦艇還有這一些這個海岸徵收提升立體徵收的這個工作這個未來對於席產地反傾銷以及違規轉運\n\n14:22.403 --> 14:37.530\n主司都有強力的打擊作用這個不能說跟關稅毫無相關台電的一千億我再度為產業請命您聽我說您剛剛提到的說反傾銷什麼這些可是你在裡面編列的是要買無人機\n\n14:38.610 --> 14:41.892\n然後我剛剛詢問的主要是庫儲設施為什麼要編400億因為我們每年在公開的我們在我們的正式的預算裡面其實每年都有庫儲設施的整建\n\n14:54.821 --> 15:03.845\n每年入海空加起來平均大概就是2到2.3億111年的是1億9112年2億3113年2億114年是2億3就是說他就是在2億出頭這個部分那你現在突然暴增到400億你大概要用3年嘛平均\n\n15:21.008 --> 15:25.972\n在特別預算懲罰的過程當中去定位相控\n\n15:28.553 --> 15:52.321\n因為因為時間到了這個部分我們希望還是可以從兩億變成四百億我們不知道他是要做什麼而且很重要的在特別預算裡面他是限制性招標這個部分我們希望應該要說明而且也讓大家沒有沒有限制性招標\n\n15:55.708 --> 15:57.853\n好謝謝馬文晶委員質詢謝謝卓院長部會所長的備詢謝謝接下來登記26號武力華委員質詢改為\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.163,"end":2.868,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請餘院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":15.594,"end":20.938,"text":"院長早安院長剛剛我聽到陳玉珍委員在質詢的時候我認為我們的經濟部郭部長有嚴重的失言因為你的說法攸關我們2300萬人民的生命財產安全"},{"start":33.304,"end":55.618,"text":"第一集到底要怎麼樣定義不是由經濟部長說了算所以我們希望經濟部長把經濟搞好就好了現在我們今天想要先請教我們院長在今年極端氣候其實我們還是很關心農民我們之前也持續也在這裡問了很多次"},{"start":56.138,"end":63.084,"text":"那主要是今年極端氣候的部分造成劇烈的氣候變化那經常也會造成大規模的農業損害除了氣候農民還要對抗的還有我們的病蟲害還有種苗土壤的健康狀況等等所以我們可以看得到我們近年在整個農業災損的部分其實每年"},{"start":80.337,"end":98.694,"text":"編列的預算也一直在增加當然對農民來說是不無小補至少減少他們的損失可是我們也看到除了農損補助的預算不斷增加以外另外還有一個就是我們溫網市設施的補助溫網市從112年到115年我們大概編了13.7億4年的預算"},{"start":104.4,"end":130.676,"text":"要對農民做一些因為剛剛說到的嘛溫廣式你如果雨太大或者太陽太強或者像有霜害或者像有病蟲害溫廣式的搭設對很多的農作物其實是有幫助的所以我們在這一部分可以給農民這樣的補助當然對他們來說在整個成本上面他們可以降低而且可以種出更好的一些農產品而且還可以有比較"},{"start":133.918,"end":151.199,"text":"穩定的收益可是大部分的人當然還是拿不到我們可能升多收少沒有辦法一步到位可是就這個部分現在因為整個經濟的狀況還有很多的原物料的上漲成本增加等等那我們在"},{"start":153.802,"end":177.024,"text":"所有的溫網式的補助裡面大概有水平膨價網式簡易式的塑膠布還有結構型的鋼骨溫網式這個每公頃它都有不同的補助的金額那因應現在的所有的原物料的上漲還有很多都漲價的情況之下這個部分有沒有可能調高它每公頃補助的金額"},{"start":178.681,"end":194.706,"text":"我跟委員報告針對溫室的補助的部分包括六種最主要六種這種溫室的補助我們的那個補助的上限會每年滾動的調整會根據當年的物價還有它的結構的相關的材料去做一個調整"},{"start":195.253,"end":215.796,"text":"所以有可能就是了我們每年都會滾動調整那針對政府對於農民的各項補助這當然是好的我們也希望可以讓農民可以有更穩定的因為畢竟我們台灣還是以農立國的然後農業尤其在現階段其實他的基本的這些"},{"start":217.017,"end":243.449,"text":"我們所有的生產對我們整個國家安全還有韌性其實也是有正面幫助的可是當我們看到這些補助以外我們也看到它所衍生的問題比如說我們剛剛提到的這些溫暖室我們可以看到這些東西它不會爛不會壞也不會自然分解它也不能燒所以有時候當颱風來了以後它就有造成這個還是小的"},{"start":244.85,"end":272.005,"text":"他還有更多更大量的他完全沒有辦法去化農民也沒有辦法處理這個部分我們農業部目前有一個因應的方案嗎可以怎麼樣協助我跟委員報告針對農地所用的農模或塑膠部分我們現在一直在做一個資源回收再利用的一個做法特別我舉東石這邊東石我們有一個再循環的中心那他要跟地方政府"},{"start":272.865,"end":287.033,"text":"透過垃圾車或是部長我現在為什麼會提出來就是很你大概只提了東石可是其他大部分的地方其實是沒有辦法解決的比如像南投縣我們沒有焚化爐所以這尤其"},{"start":291.716,"end":307.363,"text":"南投的農民非常多你像屏東也是彰化也是雲林也是這些農業縣市其實農民非常的多那申請這些問往事的補助以後如果他們也想好好處理可是沒有辦法的情況之下有的可能會變成偷買有的人偷丟偷盜"},{"start":311.405,"end":329.836,"text":"這個對我們的環境影響是非常大的因為剛剛有提到他完全不能自然分解他也不會爛掉百年甚至更長的時間都不會所以這裡我們要求應該要有一個妥善的方案因為農民要處理這個他一噸大概至少兩萬塊兩萬塊不含運費喔你如果出生意不夠"},{"start":334.219,"end":336.62,"text":"所以農民為了一點這樣的補助這些損害的設施他必須自己做處理 院長你想有可能嗎"},{"start":355.75,"end":374.845,"text":"我跟委員報告喔第一個就是這個塑膠布是不能丟到焚化爐的第二個部分就是我們會跟地方政府合作透過地方政府的擠運然後我們協助成立一個處理中心讓這些塑膠布或濃縫的部分可以再利用那這個部分我想在台中在南投我們也積極地會跟地方政府在一起溝通"},{"start":375.585,"end":398.788,"text":"我們希望盡快可以提出解決方案因為它既然不能進防化爐之前它是可以喔它要把它拆開要把它拆散變成很細微就變成好像塑膠粒所以農民沒有辦法處理部長希望在近期院長可以責成農業部我們希望在近期可以做到怎麼樣的程度"},{"start":399.758,"end":423.348,"text":"然後來協助農民解決這個部分而且我們也是國土永續經營的一個方向好不好謝謝謝謝那另外就是我們看到這麼多的補助另外一個就是農保我們已經連續好幾次的在總質詢的這裡我們已經有詢問過部長還有院長我們農保的問題我們因為我們任何一項政策"},{"start":424.653,"end":439.131,"text":"要保護的都是農民我們這一段時間以來我們聽到我們執政當局一直在對外說在野黨煽動了非常多的預算讓你們都沒有辦法做事"},{"start":440.609,"end":455.754,"text":"你們只是被煽動一年而且是部分的預算通過的還是非常高的預算可是這些農民他們繳了一輩子他們繳了三四十年當政府一刀砍的時候他就通通沒有了"},{"start":456.454,"end":481.04,"text":"我們只不過被砍了一年你大概都是都可以這樣他就是他已經不具農保身份了他應該有的保障沒了我們一直提到這個金額不多可是是看政府要不要解決他的人數也不是很多可是我們在這一次在外面聽到霸團居然可以拿這個說我們主張要讓有工商登記的農民來領我們的這個農保"},{"start":486.488,"end":513.71,"text":"這是糟蹋農民我們在詢問院長或部長的時候我們有說這些農民他們是不應該是應該的或不應該嗎而是希望政府去解決因為他們就是真的農民他們在沒有政府沒有那麼多補助的年代在沒有這麼多的農業積聚的年代他們靠的是人力酒酸漏水都是非常的辛苦他們辛辛苦苦一路走來到老的時候他們的農保沒了"},{"start":516.272,"end":520.335,"text":"他們也繳了那麼久 不然你政府早就應該跟人家說你這個不符合農保資格這個部分我們不斷不斷地講我們不希望他拿來當成在政治上的攻防我再一次在這裡提出來希望政府可以解決這個部分好不好 因為他就是真農民你本來這個政策是要針對假農民的 可是你傷到的是誰"},{"start":541.222,"end":552.808,"text":"我跟委員報告第一件事情就是說工商登記的部分我們不會處理65歲以上所以也不會有所謂的農保不見的這個事情他只處理65歲以下部長我為什麼會一直講他人數不是我們那個2300萬人他也許是幾千人可是他就是現在還發生就是65歲以上就是已經被停了他就是拿不到商商補助費或其他的補助"},{"start":570.057,"end":597.337,"text":"我剛剛提到將心比心 當你們被煽動一部分的時候我在去年12月份的時候已經通知所有的縣市政府針對65歲以上的他只要去把他的工商登記拿掉就可以了那個早就拿掉了 地震我上一次舉例不是地震的時候就已經沒了嗎到現在他就是沒有部長 如果你說已經重新那他可以重新加保啊他馬上加保 第二天就可以連在一起啦"},{"start":597.637,"end":613.625,"text":"八十幾歲已經不需要重新加保了部長麻煩你了解以後我非常了解這個我非常了解院長麻煩統籌處理就了解狀況以後是不是有一個根本的解決辦法一定有一個什麼行為讓他的身份發生變化但是部長剛剛講了"},{"start":615.286,"end":633.386,"text":"65歲以上我們是不會把它取消有啦 就取消了嘛你可以去叫所有的院長我們這不用在這裡爭執你下去以後下去以後詢問所有的農會把65歲以上被停掉的如果他可以"},{"start":634.087,"end":641.835,"text":"了解說他是真的農民是不是有一個方案來協助解決今天這個問題這個我回去就會做因為時間的關係我們希望院長我們已經談了那麼多次"},{"start":648.983,"end":669.055,"text":"幫幫他們幫幫農民早期的農民真的很辛苦我們現在我們剛剛提到的我們補助那麼多他們現在現在有些親農其實他們如果有現在創新的做法他們可以有比較好的收益他們不用像過去是在烈日底下以前沒有穿鞋子的時候怕低頭在那裹穿頭那種土壤都是用用鋤頭一鋤一鋤挖出來的"},{"start":676.64,"end":704.278,"text":"所以這個部分我們還是希望可以去了解看看能什麼協助好不好政策上已經不會剝奪他的權利如果說有一些個案或是案子或是部長他已經有一些個案好還蠻多的所以我才會不斷不斷的提如果是個案很少數我們也不需要在這裡提所以在這裡既然會拿來當成政治攻防那當然人數也是有一些啦院長因為時間的關係我們部長如果了解以後再跟院長"},{"start":705.399,"end":708.242,"text":"另外針對因應川普總統的關稅政策我們可能面臨的衝擊我們也要編列特別預算可是我們看到現在雖然時間是很短我們現在的這一筆4100億的特別預算裡面"},{"start":728.961,"end":742.417,"text":"讓大家看到會覺得說他夾帶了跟關稅無關的部分有高達六成我們不知道我們是怎麼去定義這個部分可是這4100億如果是希望可以在緊急的情況之下去因應這個關稅帶來的"},{"start":745.1,"end":762.531,"text":"所有的產業的衝擊我們應該要好好的就這個部分需運用我們的預算可是我們看到的不是我先舉一個例子來說好的我們在裡面大概有國土韌性波普台電經濟資源高教人才波普健保關懷弱勢還有波普勞保"},{"start":763.692,"end":786.999,"text":"那大概所佔的比例也不一可是經濟資源的部分就是我們這一次針對這個可能產業受到的衝擊大概只有23% 930億那其他的還有可能涵蓋其他的部分那就國土韌性的部分因為是最高的他編了1500億我想要在這裡請教院長國土韌性的1500億他主要"},{"start":790.88,"end":810.737,"text":"在我們的資料裡面主要有兩個項目一個針對國防部還有一個大概就是海巡署1500億裡面國防部大概佔了960億海巡署是540億我想請教在國防部的這個部分其中這960億裡面又有一個"},{"start":814.226,"end":843.492,"text":"要強化國土安全韌性的部分它是整建各式庫儲設施就要400億為什麼我要特別提出來我想要請教院長這400億要做這個庫儲設施是什麼東西我們每年的預算都有庫儲設施喔強化韌性的1500億這當中矽目的這個項目到目前為止我們還在做最後的統統"},{"start":845.098,"end":858.564,"text":"的計算當中那其中比方說新建的巡防艦艇還有這一些這個海岸徵收提升立體徵收的這個工作這個未來對於席產地反傾銷以及違規轉運"},{"start":862.403,"end":877.53,"text":"主司都有強力的打擊作用這個不能說跟關稅毫無相關台電的一千億我再度為產業請命您聽我說您剛剛提到的說反傾銷什麼這些可是你在裡面編列的是要買無人機"},{"start":878.61,"end":881.892,"text":"然後我剛剛詢問的主要是庫儲設施為什麼要編400億因為我們每年在公開的 我們在我們的正式的預算裡面其實每年都有庫儲設施的整建"},{"start":894.821,"end":903.845,"text":"每年入海空加起來平均大概就是2到2.3億111年的是1億9112年2億3113年2億114年是2億3就是說他就是在2億出頭這個部分那你現在突然暴增到400億你大概要用3年嘛平均"},{"start":921.008,"end":925.972,"text":"在特別預算懲罰的過程當中去定位相控"},{"start":928.553,"end":952.321,"text":"因為因為時間到了這個部分我們希望還是可以從兩億變成四百億我們不知道他是要做什麼而且很重要的在特別預算裡面他是限制性招標這個部分我們希望應該要說明而且也讓大家沒有沒有限制性招標"},{"start":955.708,"end":957.853,"text":"好 謝謝馬文晶委員質詢謝謝卓院長部會所長的備詢 謝謝接下來登記26號武力華委員質詢改為"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":409,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時5分）謝謝主席，麻煩請院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["馬委員文君：院長早安。剛剛陳玉珍委員在質詢的時候，我認為經濟部郭部長嚴重失言，因為你的說法攸關2,300萬人民的生命財產安全，第一級到底要怎麼樣定義，不是由經濟部長說了算，所以希望經濟部長把經濟搞好就好了。","今天想要先請教院長，近年極端氣候，其實我們還是很關心農民，本席之前也持續在這裡問了很多次，主要是近年極端氣候造成劇烈的氣候變化，也經常造成大規模的農業損害，除了氣候，農民還要對抗病蟲害，以及種苗、土壤的健康狀況等等，所以我們可以看到近年在整個農業災損的部分，其實每年編列的預算也一直在增加。當然對農民來說是不無小補，至少減少他們的損失，可是我們也看到除了農損補助的預算不斷增加以外，另外還有一個就是溫網室設施的補助，針對溫網室，從112年到115年大概編了13.7億四年的預算，要對農民提供一些補助。如果雨太大或者太陽太強，或者是有霜害，或者是有病蟲害，溫網室的搭設對很多農作物其實是有幫助的，所以這一部分可以給農民這樣的補助，當然對他們來說在成本上面可以降低，而且可以種出更好的農產品，另外還可以有比較穩定的收益。可是大部分的人還是拿不到，有可能是僧多粥少，沒有辦法一步到位，可是就這個部分而言，現在因為整個經濟的狀況，還有很多原物料上漲、成本增加等等，在所有溫網室的補助裡面，大概有水平棚架網室、簡易式的塑膠布以及結構型鋼骨溫網室，每公頃都有不同的補助金額。因應現在所有的原物料上漲，還有很多東西都漲價的情況之下，這個部分有沒有可能調高每公頃補助的金額？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，針對溫室補助的部分，最主要有六種溫室的補助，我們補助的上限會每年滾動調整，也就是根據當年的物價以及其結構的相關材料去加以調整。"],["馬委員文君：所以有可能就是了？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們每年都會滾動調整。"],["馬委員文君：針對政府對於農民的各項補助，這當然是好的，我們也希望可以讓農民有更穩定的收入，畢竟臺灣還是以農立國，尤其在現階段，其實農業所有的生產，對我們整個國家安全還有韌性也是有正面幫助的。可是除了這些補助以外，我們也看到它所衍生的問題，比如說剛剛提到的溫網室，我們可以看到這些東西不會爛、不會壞，也不會自然分解，它也不能燒，所以有時候當颱風來了以後，它還會造成更多更大量的部分完全沒有辦法去化，農民也沒有辦法處理。針對這個部分，農業部目前有因應的方案嗎？可以怎麼樣協助？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，針對農地所用的農膜或塑膠布溫室的部分，我們現在一直在推動資源回收再利用的做法，舉例來講，我們在東石有一個再循環的中心，它要跟地方政府透過垃圾車或者是其他部分去協作。"],["馬委員文君：部長，我為什麼會提出來？你只提了東石，可是其他大部分的地方是沒有辦法解決的，比如像南投縣沒有焚化爐，尤其南投的農民非常多，像屏東也是，彰化也是，雲林也是，這些農業縣市其實農民非常多，申請這些溫網室的補助以後，他們也想好好處理，可是沒有辦法的情況之下，有的可能會變成偷埋，有的人偷丟、偷倒，這個對我們的環境影響是非常大的，因為剛剛有提到它完全不能自然分解，也不會爛掉，百年、甚至更長的時間都不會。所以在這裡我們要求應該要有一個妥善的方案，因為農民要處理這個，1噸大概至少2萬塊……"],["陳部長駿季：我瞭解……"],["馬委員文君：2萬塊不含運費喔！如果位在山頂、深山，車輛的運輸費用還要更多。而且除了運費以外，還需要動用怪手，因為必須把這些夾起來才能清運，他要請很多的車輛。所以農民為了這樣一點的補助，損害的設施必須自己做處理，院長，你想有可能嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個，這個塑膠布是不能丟到焚化爐的。第二個部分就是我們會跟地方政府合作，透過地方政府的集運，我們協助成立一個處理中心，讓這些塑膠布或農膜的部分可以再利用。就這個部分，在臺中、在南投，我們也積極地會跟地方政府一起溝通。"],["馬委員文君：好，我們希望可以儘快提出解決方案，因為它既然不能進焚化爐，但是之前它是可以的，就是必須把它拆開、拆散，變成很細微，好像塑膠粒……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，它裡面有時候會有一些石頭、有一些土壤，有沒有？"],["馬委員文君：所以農民沒有辦法處理。部長，希望在近期院長可以責成農業部……"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經在溝通了。"],["馬委員文君：我們希望在近期可以做到怎麼樣的程度來協助農民解決，而且這也是國土永續經營的方向，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["馬委員文君：謝謝。我們看到這麼多的補助，另外一個就是農保，我們已經連續好幾次在總質詢詢問過部長及院長農保的問題。任何一項政策要保護的都是農民。這一段時間以來，我們聽到執政當局一直對外說在野黨刪凍了非常多的預算，讓你們都沒有辦法做事。你們只是被刪凍1年，而且是部分的預算，通過的還是非常高的預算；可是這些農民他們繳了一輩子，繳了三、四十年，當政府一刀砍的時候，他們就統統沒有了。你們只不過被砍了1年，都可以這樣，但是他們已經不具農保身分了，他們應該有的保障沒了！","我們一直提到這個金額不多，就看政府要不要解決，他們的人數也不是很多，可是這一次我們在外面聽到罷團居然可以拿這個，說我們主張要讓有工商登記的農民來領我們的農保，這是糟蹋農民！我們在詢問院長或部長的時候，有說這些農民他們是應該或不應該的嗎？我們是希望政府去解決，因為他們就是真的農民，他們在政府沒有那麼多補助的年代、在沒有這麼多農業機具的年代，他們靠的是人力上山下海，都非常地辛苦，但是他們辛辛苦苦一路走來，到老的時候，他們的農保沒了！他們也繳了那麼久，如果不能領，政府早就應該跟人家說他們不符合農保資格。針對這個部分，我們不斷、不斷地講，我們不希望被拿來當成政治上的攻防。我再一次在這裡提出來……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告……"],["馬委員文君：希望政府可以解決這個部分，好不好？因為他就是真農民。本來這個政策要針對假農民的，可是你傷到的是誰？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一件事情就是工商登記的部分，我們不會處理65歲以上的，所以也不會有所謂的農保不見的事情，它只處理65歲以下……"],["馬委員文君：部長，我為什麼會一直講？他們的人數不是2,300萬人，也許是幾千人，可是就是現在還發生65歲以上的已經被停了，他們就是拿不到喪葬補助費或其他的補助！我剛剛提到將心比心，當你們的預算被刪凍一部分的時候……"],["陳部長駿季：我在去年12月份的時候已經通知所有的縣市政府，65歲以上的只要去把他的工商登記拿掉就可以了，我們只處理……"],["馬委員文君：他們早就拿掉了，我上次不是舉例地震的時候就已經沒了嗎？到現在他們就是沒有。部長，如果你說已經重新……"],["陳部長駿季：那他可以重新加保，他可以重新加保啊！他馬上加保，第二天就可以連在一起了。"],["馬委員文君：八十幾歲已經不需要重新加保了，部長，麻煩你了解以後，再統籌處理……"],["陳部長駿季：我了解，這個我非常了解。"],["馬委員文君：院長，麻煩統籌處理，去了解狀況以後看是不是有一個根本的解決辦法，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，報告委員，一定是有一個什麼行為讓他的身分發生變化，但是部長剛剛講了，對65歲以上我們是不會取消他的資格……"],["馬委員文君：有啦！就取消了嘛！院長，我們不用在這裡爭執這個，你下去以後詢問所有農會，65歲以上被停掉的，如果可以了解他是真的農民，是不是有一個方案來協助解決？今天這個問題就到此結束。"],["陳部長駿季：這個我回去就會做，就是再重新去清查一次65歲以上的。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，部長會處理。"],["馬委員文君：謝謝，因為時間的關係，院長，我們已經談了那麼多次，希望幫幫他們、幫幫農民，早期的農民真的很辛苦……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["馬委員文君：我們剛剛也提到，我們補助那麼多，現在有些青農如果有創新的作法，他們就可以有比較好的收益，他們不用像過去在烈日底下，以前沒有穿鞋子用鋤頭在那邊掘田地的時候，那些土壤都是用鋤頭一鋤一鋤挖出來的，對於這個部分我們還是希望可以去了解看看能怎麼協助，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，政策上一定不會剝奪他的權利，如果說有一些個案或是有些案子，我請部長再充分了解，予以補救回來。"],["馬委員文君：這已經不是個案，數量還滿多的，所以我們才會不斷不斷地提，如果是個案，只是很少數，我們也不需要在這裡提……"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["馬委員文君：既然會被拿來當成政治攻防，那當然人數也是有一些啦！院長，因為時間的關係，部長在了解以後再跟院長面報說明，然後給我們一個解決的方案，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長去了解。"],["陳部長駿季：我也會跟委員說明。"],["馬委員文君：謝謝。另外，為因應我們因為川普總統的關稅政策所可能面臨的衝擊，我們要編列特別預算，可是我們看到雖然時間是很短，在現在這一筆4,100億的特別預算裡面，讓大家看到以後會覺得它夾帶了跟關稅無關的部分高達六成，我們不知道到底是怎麼去定義這個部分，可是如果是希望用這4,100億在緊急的情況之下去因應關稅對所有產業帶來的衝擊，我們就應該要好好的就這個部分去運用我們的預算，可是我們看到的不是這樣。我先舉一個例子來說好了，在這裡面大概有國土韌性、撥補台電、經濟支援、高教人才、撥補健保、關懷弱勢還有撥補勞保，各項所占的比例也不一。可是在經濟支援的部分也就是我們這一次針對產業可能受到的衝擊大概只有23%、930億，還有涵蓋其他的部分。就國土韌性的部分是最高的，編了1,500億，我想要在這裡請教院長，根據我們的資料，國土韌性的1,500億主要有兩個項目，一個是針對國防部，還有一個就是海巡署，在這1,500億裡面，國防部大概占了960億，海巡署是540億，我想請教，在國防部的這960億裡面又有一個要強化國土安全韌性的部分，就是整建各式庫儲設施，就要400億，為什麼我們要特別提出來？我想要請教院長，用這400億要做庫儲設施，這到底是什麼東西？因為我們每年的預算都有庫儲設施喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：對於強化韌性的1,500億裡面的細部項目，到目前為止，我們還在做最後的計算當中，其中比方說新建的巡防艦艇，還有做一些海岸偵搜、提升立體偵搜的工作，這些未來對於洗產地、反傾銷、違規轉運及走私都有強力的打擊作用，這個不能說跟關稅毫無相關。另外，針對台電的1,000億，我要再度為產業請命……"],["馬委員文君：院長，您剛剛提到反傾銷這些，可是你在裡面編列的是要買無人機，然後我剛剛主要詢問的是庫儲設施為什麼要編400億，因為我們每一年在正式的預算裡面其實都有庫儲設施的整建，每年陸海空加起來平均大概就是2到2.3億，111年是1億9、112年是2億3、113年是2億、114年是2億3，就是在2億出頭這個部分，你現在突然暴增到400億，你大概要用3年，平均……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，詳細的數字我們會請國防部詳算之後再向大院來做說明，在特別預算審查的過程中一定會詳細說明。"],["馬委員文君：好，院長，因為時間也到了，我們希望這個部分還是可以提出來，從2億變成400億……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會詳細說明。"],["馬委員文君：我們不知道它是要做什麼，而且很重要的是在特別預算裡面，它是限制性招標，這個部分我們希望應該要說明清楚，也讓大家……"],["卓院長榮泰：限制性招標也是公開的招標。"],["馬委員文君：沒有，限制性招標和公開招標不一樣，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來登記第26號伍麗華委員之質詢改為書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe書面質詢：","案由：本院委員伍麗華，針對地熱係屬政府在推動能源轉型與淨零碳排之重要能源，卻沒有完整的法律制度加以規範，實際開發恐造成部落與廠商無所適從、中央與地方治理無所依據，造成社會衝突。為使地熱的公正轉型更臻完善，爰要求行政院應督導各部會與縣市政府建立相關制度，全面盤點全台地熱潛勢區與開發現況，並前瞻性建立地熱的自然資源治理架構，以因應未來開發將面臨之狀況，特向行政院提出質詢。","說明：據原住民族委員會2024年統計，臺灣目前可發展地熱潛能區共計88處，位於原住民族地區計59處，占總數67%，可見發展地熱成功與否的關鍵，在於與部落是否能建立平等的合作基礎與社會溝通管道，避免社會衝突。然而，目前地熱之主管機關、治理架構皆未明，無論是公私有土地、部落公法人、國發基金進場、公對公模式等相關問題，皆尚待從法制面釐清：","一、地熱開發模式：目前地熱之主管機關不明，暫時屬於經濟部能源署，而能源署對於目前的地熱開發模式是否採用公對公？前後說法不一、態度模糊；再者，能源署堅持的「一致回饋基準」，有違反部落自主意願、部落主體性、甚或是與廠商斡旋的部落培力，若強行推動恐將造成全台部落反彈，使得開發更不易推行，針對「一致回饋基準」應審慎評估必要性。此外，地熱屬於地下資源，其性質是否屬於私有地主、國家或部落？或是屬於共有財？地熱資源屬性為訂立治理架構的前提，應先行釐清。而地熱開發經常跨越不同地號，「儲集層治理」為地熱的特殊管理方式，亦是世界各國的地熱管理模式趨勢，國內主管機關亦應對此做出研究與回應。最後，地熱開發區域的「總量管制」，以金崙地區與多良地區為例，已有多達5家以上廠商進場，甚至持續增加中，未來開發勢必引發搶水問題，且地熱過度開發對於地區造成之負面影響，主管機關應針對一地區之地熱開發總量管制做國內外案例研究並提出相應措施。","二、諮商同意（涉原住民族基本法第二十一條）：僅公有地開發須經諮商同意，大部分開發廠商選址位於部落私有地，如何確保私有地開發的部落知情同意程序？現行規定探勘階段是否需要諮商同意，各鄉公所自行認定，也因此造成許多部落不滿，究竟應在地熱開發何種階段踐行諮商同意？諮商同意時廠商的資訊揭露應包含哪些項目內容？諮商同意實施階段前的鑽探行為等，縱使不用諮商同意，但應如何確保部落的知情同意？皆應有清楚規範。","三、部落公法人（涉原住民族基本法第二條之一）：在目前地熱資源開發的過程中，經常出現許多關於「誰代表部落」的法律與實務問題。例如，利益回饋金與補償金到底該存入哪個單位？協會、公所、基金會都曾被作為資金流向的單位，但這些組織並不是依法具有代表部落的主體。誰又能經營部落公共事業，例如地熱、自來水、溫泉或產銷館？這些問題都指向一個結構性的缺口：部落至今仍未被法律明確視為法人，沒有主體地位，導致公共資源與治理制度難以落實。","正因如此，部落公法人制度與地熱資源治理模式息息相關，唯有建立明確的部落法定主體，才能真正回應這些問題。且在地熱開發中，部落公法人的重要性不只是利益回饋的問題，更涉及部落想參與投資入股地熱行業，讓部落在開發的角色不僅只是提供土地出租，而是能成為事業體或投資夥伴。因此，部落公法人的推動將能促成部落與地熱廠商的「新形態夥伴關係」，並能建立日後部落開發（不僅僅是地熱）的新模式、部落參與模式。","在第11屆第一會期院會質詢時，本席曾要求行政院責成原民會於兩個月內提出規劃報告，包括：一、訂定《部落公法人設置條例》；二、擬定條文草案並辦理分區座談會；三、推動為期三年的「部落公法人沙盒計畫」，選定正在面臨開發爭議或正在簽署行政契約的部落作為試辦點。唯有讓部落公法人制度在面對真實開發壓力與治理需求的場域中進行試辦，才能真正檢驗其制度設計的成效與必要性。然而目前，原民會提出的部落公法人試辦點，未包含具有上述特徵條件之部落，那麼面臨地熱開發的部落應以何種角色身分與廠商互動？原民會應提出做法。","四、國發基金與公正轉型沙盒計畫（涉氣候變遷因應法）：部落若想入股投資地熱產業，國發基金能否入場挹注部落資金？其機制為何？另，從國外地熱開發成功案例可知，地熱廠商通常能與地方達成永續生活鏈與發展其他生活共榮的產業，供地方發展。趁地熱沙盒成形之際，應思考除利益回饋外，如何結合地熱廠商、尾水，打造部落永續產業鏈、產業園區生活型態，將此整體規劃納入沙盒當中。","建議：公正轉型建立在人與土地、人與社會、人與自然的三方關係，為使地熱開發兼顧在地居民權益，使部落兼顧主體性、經濟效益與綠色能源，並且確立社會溝通機制，由行政院責成各部會建立地熱治理架構：","(一)經濟部應提出明確的地熱治理模式，清楚說明公對公模式之內容。地熱治理架構應包含：主管機關、地熱資源屬性、儲集層管理、總量管制、社會溝通、諮商同意內容指引，並檢討「諮商同意時間點」與「一致性回饋基準」之必要性。","(二)原民會應提出部落面對地熱公共財，不論公有地或私有地，應用何種工具參與討論及回饋機制；並檢討目前各原民地區溫泉開發情形及地熱發展潛能評估。","(三)國發會應匡列地熱公正轉型相關預算，並配合能源署示範專區規劃，提出兼顧永續產業鏈思維及部落溝通之沙盒計畫，編列所需經費；國發基金應提出部落可使用之申請辦法與經費規模。","(四)經濟部地礦中心應完善地熱潛勢區的盤點，並與廠商及國營事業（如中油），研擬全國地熱潛勢區之鑽探規劃及分工。"],["主席：接下來我們請登記第27號牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-9","speakers":["韓國瑜","廖偉翔","顏寬恒","李彥秀","陳玉珍","馬文君","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","黃珊珊","鍾佳濱","吳秉叡","沈發惠","許宇甄","李昆澤","林思銘","葛如鈞","許智傑","林倩綺","蔡其昌","吳沛憶","李坤城","丁學忠","劉書彬"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2025-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00004","1143901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143901_00004"}}}