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927.686, \"end\": 927.706, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,955 --> 00:00:12,238\n好謝謝主席有請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢各位好院長好我想我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注我們目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度\n\n2\n00:00:34,882 --> 00:01:03,221\n這實際上也是陳建仁前院長以及吳政中前政委卸任之前心心念念的嘱托啦也是所有的人都非常關注的回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程早在去年3月本席剛剛就任就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度當時呢陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成那當時呢我們有一位先發投手吳政中前政委進一步表示\n\n3\n00:01:03,841 --> 00:01:17,632\n即便他從內閣回歸民間但是科技政策是會延續的預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出預計將會尋所謂的美日模式也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主風險歸管為輔\n\n4\n00:01:21,295 --> 00:01:43,954\n不過去年520新內閣上任以後卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣對於各界可以說是非常非常的期待對於AI基本法的設定具以厚望認為錢建仁前院長交棒給卓院長AI基本法的草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院\n\n5\n00:01:45,174 --> 00:02:08,622\n當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳振中前主委交給了我們現在的吳承文主委如果說吳振中主委是所謂的先發投手那麼我想吳承文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手如果狀態好的話應該可以一路投下去投到第九局取得比賽的勝利去年剛剛登板的吳承文主委也不負眾望了\n\n6\n00:02:09,082 --> 00:02:30,676\n一開始就給我們投出好球在6月的時候就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法的草案收集了各界的意見再次投出好球主委您11月28號在教皇委員會也在詢答的時候說\n\n7\n00:02:31,616 --> 00:02:59,156\n草案方向未有大幅變動預計最晚於明年也就是今年的第一個會期呢送到立法院審議直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球我想請教齁那當時呢也國科會表示一定會在新會期也就是這個會期重新送出我想請教員工智慧基本法法案草案送出來了沒跟委員報告\n\n8\n00:03:00,297 --> 00:03:17,498\n吳承文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手所以他投了很多好球送出了沒送出了沒去年底我們經過國科會送到行政院行政院也再一次的進行審議我們對內容還有一些意見所以現在還沒送出對我們是審慎起見\n\n9\n00:03:19,463 --> 00:03:40,528\n其實這個180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出沒想到剛剛二月初的時候國科會都還說沒問題結果二月底突然豬羊變色在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被我們的這個教練來換將\n\n10\n00:03:42,608 --> 00:04:07,350\n改由速發部上場投球行政院立場突然180度大轉變宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由速發部來主管對此吼我們這個吳承恩主委也有相關的說明不過各見一片嘩然啊不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變林鄭換將外界物理看花抽絲剝繭沒有一個答案院長\n\n11\n00:04:08,251 --> 00:04:08,511\n請問,這是不是真的?\n\n12\n00:04:23,203 --> 00:04:48,324\n因為經過院內包括政委包括各部會相關的討論我們認為這個AI基本法牽扯到國家安全也牽扯到這個基本的安全上的管理跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大所以交由部會更有能力但是吳承偉主委用政委的身份隨時在督導這個工作絕對沒有問題謝謝院長我要問的是這是不是您的指示\n\n13\n00:04:49,025 --> 00:04:54,133\n是不是行政院的指示在討論之後做最後終決定的當然是院長院長\n\n14\n00:04:56,129 --> 00:05:21,661\n事實上你說得很好嘛是你做的決定對不對對嘛你剛剛說了嘛2月26號其實是星期三並不是行政院院會召開的日期本席上網特地查了2月20號2月27號是行政院院會的決議這兩次的會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法請問院長\n\n15\n00:05:22,501 --> 00:05:48,459\n到底在什麼樣的場合什麼樣的會議上去指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交速發布這個跟委員報告行政院除了行政院會之外我們還有政委的政務會議同時每一天不定時不定內容的我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議都會做成重要的決定但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會做決定好\n\n16\n00:05:49,359 --> 00:06:13,813\n2月26號說改交嘛那這是哪一場會議這是哪一場會議抱歉委員這樣問我必須要查一下這是哪一場一定是經過一個所以必然是經過會議嘛一定是經過討論之後的調整那有沒有會議記錄有沒有會議記錄有沒有公文佐證查出來相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論的會議2月26號為什麼我要這樣問因為各界非常\n\n17\n00:06:19,081 --> 00:06:37,140\n擔憂覺得為什麼會突然林鄭換將這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件啊我們我國在對AI的這個法規上是不是在打假球要對全國對全世界來做一個很奇怪的振錢換將的做法\n\n18\n00:06:37,878 --> 00:06:45,889\n到底是什麼樣的原因大家會非常懷疑啊事實上政治呢2月26號其實是民進黨2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會啊是民進黨的會議啊沒有關係嘛\n\n19\n00:06:54,440 --> 00:07:21,429\n所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解我再請教院長人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法一共18條裡面只有5條是做風險的監管可以說本來是要定調研發為主監管為輔在先發投手的時期但是現在政院版的草案的主管機關改為速發部\n\n20\n00:07:23,170 --> 00:07:35,568\n國務科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就正式要定調為從鼓勵研發科研創新轉為強調風險監管的方向院長那並不衝突\n\n21\n00:07:41,192 --> 00:08:04,722\n這就跟你的這個特別預算一樣什麼都要參進來嗎並不衝突不是來AI就是一個研發也要管控它的風險管理這並不衝突啊好沒關係你說沒有衝突那我就告訴院長為什麼速發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關這裡面是可能存在衝突的第一根據速發部所提供的資料\n\n22\n00:08:05,482 --> 00:08:28,367\n素產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關這還不是AI喔是5.9億元相比之下114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發的預算一共將近52億元總共掌握的很可能還是到300億的規模\n\n23\n00:08:29,827 --> 00:08:49,759\n以預算的規模來看國科會來掌握AI科研的預算是速發部的10倍所以這個其實就是一種差異啊對不起稍微等我一下還有第二點從組織架構來看國科會是中央二級機關預算員額加聘僱大概有299人速產署是三級機關\n\n24\n00:08:51,320 --> 00:09:13,861\n加上這個聘用人員大概只有163個人,在資源和人力雙重缺乏的之下,怎麼能夠承擔我們的AI整體發展的重任呢?第三,法治量能速發部是一向為人併購的,我們沒有批評的意思,但事實上就是11屆會期到目前為止,總共速發部只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法,\n\n25\n00:09:14,341 --> 00:09:39,308\n完全AI基本法到現在也草案的修正也沒看到影子沒錢沒人沒有法治量人怎麼能做我國的未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢這是怎麼做的呢為什麼會有這樣的一個事情呢報告委員我們科技研發的預算國會來編列那我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發而是我們的學界我們的產業界研究機構都會做然後速發部呢將來會做產業AI的產業的推動\n\n26\n00:09:42,312 --> 00:09:44,826\n好謝謝謝謝主委我沒有問您我要問院長\n\n27\n00:09:46,138 --> 00:10:11,312\n您剛剛說可以平衡啊可是速發部就是沒有在做這塊啊沒有預算沒有人沒有錢在主管的單位上面更是速產署三級機關這怎麼科研怎麼發展怎麼創新院長您可以回應一下嗎我是真的很誠心的去請教啊數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行他重要在執行一個部會比一個\n\n28\n00:10:12,293 --> 00:10:37,262\n委員會來講它的執行能力會更強所以我們是著眼這樣子必須做高風險的安全管理院長你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎數位產業它包含比較大所以我們剛剛看到只做資安跟素產我們的人力就已經不夠了草案都申不出來了你覺得它有量能可以繼續做AI嗎委員會要求速發部\n\n29\n00:10:38,447 --> 00:10:59,558\n在現在的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院我們的方向到底是不是轉變了我們以科研為主創新為主轉成速發部速發部是打詐跟治安嘛我們現在您剛剛也講了是不是以風險公關要就講清楚我們的方向是不是轉變了我們要並重我們要鼓勵民間\n\n30\n00:11:00,778 --> 00:11:23,892\n多研發我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理讓它高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制好如果你說併重的話請教院長您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全會報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會您說要併重嘛您才有高度可以併重啊主委還是政委嘛\n\n31\n00:11:25,793 --> 00:11:40,524\n蘇發部他也沒有辦法跨部會協調所以您支持這個說法嗎我們現在已經有跨部會的自動安全匯報因為戰略人工智慧戰略特別委員會我們在公立會裡大家都提出來目前我們是沒有這樣的規劃但是我們已經有跨部會的一個\n\n32\n00:11:42,011 --> 00:12:07,529\n跨部會的自動安全匯報來統合各部會的工作所以要把AI放到自動安全匯報裡面嗎我說我們現在已經有這個我們可以跨部會來做自動安全匯報我說吃不吃吃AI也有這樣跨部會召集的委員會我們有一個現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動那副院長政府院長召集我協助裡面會把AI產業的推動也會放在這裡不是院長\n\n33\n00:12:08,770 --> 00:12:37,045\n這樣大家越聽越模糊啊你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0是主委在協調然後你的AI基本法草案又給速發部來處理那你這個台灣到底AI是不是多頭N頭馬車啊這是副院長主持的是院級的副院長主持的智慧國家2.0所以不需要這個戰略了是不是智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎戰略可以在那邊談那速發部會是一個很重要的執行的一個部會\n\n34\n00:12:37,805 --> 00:12:56,927\n那其他的包含經濟部國會也都會協助沒關係我想這個整合的戰略我們還是希望有一個中央的帶頭啦否則的話我覺得現在這樣一團混亂再來我還是想請教一下院長現在啦我想繁體中文面臨到這個存續的問題我們很感謝文化部幫忙我們啦\n\n35\n00:12:57,788 --> 00:13:23,116\n跟這個相關的這個企業來溝通讓這個YouTube還有很多的平台繁中是繼續支持的那我請教一下院長你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放相關法制化的作業我們在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫這個AI訓練院長知不知道什麼意思我們一直包括我們大型語言模型Tide這個就是一個大型的資料庫\n\n36\n00:13:24,073 --> 00:13:52,780\n我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的這個概念底下能夠跟民間充分來使用國家現有的資源對不起院長你可能要回去做一下功課TIDE是所謂的大型語言模型它不是一個資料庫我們需要一個國家級的資料庫台德在喊說資料不夠民間也在喊說資料不夠我們要有一個AI的語料庫讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用院長可不可以支持這樣的主張啊\n\n37\n00:13:54,706 --> 00:14:17,838\n我們的確朝這個方向在走因為我們要發展主權AI一定要建自己的資料庫什麼時候會完成我們什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫這部分的工作現在在速發部因為他負責資料治理速發部負責資料治理所以速發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案他都會去推動\n\n38\n00:14:19,366 --> 00:14:35,001\n在推動的過程當中會跟我們的國防中心沒有關係謝謝相關的資料請提供出來院長我相信你已經可以看到了啦一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車沒有資料沒有AI沒有電也沒有AI啦事實上我們想要告訴你的\n\n39\n00:14:35,661 --> 00:14:55,715\n我們需要核電我們需要更多元的能源彭子前董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢啦我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新我們甚至中研院所做出的近零五支箭完全沒有任何一支是核能啦\n\n40\n00:14:56,455 --> 00:15:13,073\n結果我們的中研院告訴我們說沒有人在討論的我們才把它放進來變成箭有人在討論就是有用的箭啊沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭啊我們怎麼中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要設出的是五支沒有用的箭呢我想最後想要讓院長知道啦\n\n41\n00:15:13,593 --> 00:15:27,706\n五月十七河山研議在即啦我們的河山場還可以放九年半以上我們是不是可以不要再大罷免大拖度了我們要大台灣大成功我們更理性看待台灣的需要可以嗎謝謝葛如今委員資訊謝謝卓院長國科會背景謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7955\t12238\t好謝謝主席有請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢各位好院長好我想我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注我們目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度\n34882\t63221\t這實際上也是陳建仁前院長以及吳政中前政委卸任之前心心念念的嘱托啦也是所有的人都非常關注的回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程早在去年3月本席剛剛就任就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度當時呢陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成那當時呢我們有一位先發投手吳政中前政委進一步表示\n63841\t77632\t即便他從內閣回歸民間但是科技政策是會延續的預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出預計將會尋所謂的美日模式也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主風險歸管為輔\n81295\t103954\t不過去年520新內閣上任以後卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣對於各界可以說是非常非常的期待對於AI基本法的設定具以厚望認為錢建仁前院長交棒給卓院長AI基本法的草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院\n105174\t128622\t當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳振中前主委交給了我們現在的吳承文主委如果說吳振中主委是所謂的先發投手那麼我想吳承文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手如果狀態好的話應該可以一路投下去投到第九局取得比賽的勝利去年剛剛登板的吳承文主委也不負眾望了\n129082\t150676\t一開始就給我們投出好球在6月的時候就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法的草案收集了各界的意見再次投出好球主委您11月28號在教皇委員會也在詢答的時候說\n151616\t179156\t草案方向未有大幅變動預計最晚於明年也就是今年的第一個會期呢送到立法院審議直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球我想請教齁那當時呢也國科會表示一定會在新會期也就是這個會期重新送出我想請教員工智慧基本法法案草案送出來了沒跟委員報告\n180297\t197498\t吳承文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手所以他投了很多好球送出了沒 送出了沒去年底我們經過國科會送到行政院行政院也再一次的進行審議我們對內容還有一些意見所以現在還沒送出對 我們是審慎起見\n199463\t220528\t其實這個180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出沒想到剛剛二月初的時候國科會都還說沒問題結果二月底突然豬羊變色在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被我們的這個教練來換將\n222608\t247350\t改由速發部上場投球行政院立場突然180度大轉變宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由速發部來主管對此吼我們這個吳承恩主委也有相關的說明不過各見一片嘩然啊不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變林鄭換將外界物理看花抽絲剝繭沒有一個答案院長\n248251\t248511\t請問,這是不是真的?\n263203\t288324\t因為經過院內包括政委包括各部會相關的討論我們認為這個AI基本法牽扯到國家安全也牽扯到這個基本的安全上的管理跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大所以交由部會更有能力但是吳承偉主委用政委的身份隨時在督導這個工作絕對沒有問題謝謝院長我要問的是這是不是您的指示\n289025\t294133\t是不是行政院的指示在討論之後做最後終決定的當然是院長院長\n296129\t321661\t事實上你說得很好嘛 是你做的決定對不對對嘛 你剛剛說了嘛2月26號其實是星期三並不是行政院院會召開的日期本席上網特地查了2月20號 2月27號是行政院院會的決議這兩次的會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法請問院長\n322501\t348459\t到底在什麼樣的場合什麼樣的會議上去指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交速發布這個跟委員報告行政院除了行政院會之外我們還有政委的政務會議同時每一天不定時不定內容的我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議都會做成重要的決定但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會做決定好\n349359\t373813\t2月26號說改交嘛那這是哪一場會議這是哪一場會議抱歉委員這樣問我必須要查一下這是哪一場一定是經過一個所以必然是經過會議嘛一定是經過討論之後的調整那有沒有會議記錄有沒有會議記錄有沒有公文佐證查出來相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論的會議2月26號為什麼我要這樣問因為各界非常\n379081\t397140\t擔憂覺得為什麼會突然林鄭換將這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件啊我們我國在對AI的這個法規上是不是在打假球要對全國對全世界來做一個很奇怪的振錢換將的做法\n397878\t405889\t到底是什麼樣的原因大家會非常懷疑啊事實上政治呢2月26號其實是民進黨2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會啊是民進黨的會議啊沒有關係嘛\n414440\t441429\t所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解我再請教院長人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法一共18條裡面只有5條是做風險的監管可以說本來是要定調研發為主監管為輔在先發投手的時期但是現在政院版的草案的主管機關改為速發部\n443170\t455568\t國務科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就正式要定調為從鼓勵研發科研創新轉為強調風險監管的方向院長那並不衝突\n461192\t484722\t這就跟你的這個特別預算一樣什麼都要參進來嗎並不衝突不是來AI就是一個研發也要管控它的風險管理這並不衝突啊好沒關係你說沒有衝突那我就告訴院長為什麼速發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關這裡面是可能存在衝突的第一根據速發部所提供的資料\n485482\t508367\t素產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關這還不是AI喔 是5.9億元相比之下114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發的預算一共將近52億元總共掌握的很可能還是到300億的規模\n509827\t529759\t以預算的規模來看 國科會來掌握AI科研的預算是速發部的10倍所以這個其實就是一種差異啊 對不起 稍微等我一下還有第二點 從組織架構來看 國科會是中央二級機關預算員額加聘僱大概有299人 速產署是三級機關\n531320\t553861\t加上這個聘用人員大概只有163個人,在資源和人力雙重缺乏的之下,怎麼能夠承擔我們的AI整體發展的重任呢?第三,法治量能速發部是一向為人併購的,我們沒有批評的意思,但事實上就是11屆會期到目前為止,總共速發部只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法,\n554341\t579308\t完全AI基本法到現在也草案的修正也沒看到影子沒錢沒人沒有法治量人怎麼能做我國的未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢這是怎麼做的呢為什麼會有這樣的一個事情呢報告委員我們科技研發的預算國會來編列那我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發而是我們的學界我們的產業界研究機構都會做然後速發部呢將來會做產業AI的產業的推動\n582312\t584826\t好 謝謝 謝謝主委我沒有問您 我要問院長\n586138\t611312\t您剛剛說可以平衡啊可是速發部就是沒有在做這塊啊沒有預算沒有人沒有錢在主管的單位上面更是速產署三級機關這怎麼科研怎麼發展怎麼創新院長您可以回應一下嗎我是真的很誠心的去請教啊數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行他重要在執行一個部會比一個\n612293\t637262\t委員會來講它的執行能力會更強所以我們是著眼這樣子必須做高風險的安全管理院長你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎數位產業它包含比較大所以我們剛剛看到只做資安跟素產我們的人力就已經不夠了草案都申不出來了你覺得它有量能可以繼續做AI嗎委員會要求速發部\n638447\t659558\t在現在的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院我們的方向到底是不是轉變了我們以科研為主 創新為主轉成速發部 速發部是打詐跟治安嘛我們現在 您剛剛也講了是不是以風險公關 要就講清楚我們的方向是不是轉變了我們要並重 我們要鼓勵民間\n660778\t683892\t多研發 我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理讓它高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制好 如果你說併重的話 請教院長您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全會報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會您說要併重嘛 您才有高度可以併重啊主委還是政委嘛\n685793\t700524\t蘇發部他也沒有辦法跨部會協調所以您支持這個說法嗎我們現在已經有跨部會的自動安全匯報因為戰略人工智慧戰略特別委員會我們在公立會裡大家都提出來目前我們是沒有這樣的規劃但是我們已經有跨部會的一個\n702011\t727529\t跨部會的自動安全匯報來統合各部會的工作所以要把AI放到自動安全匯報裡面嗎我說我們現在已經有這個我們可以跨部會來做自動安全匯報我說吃不吃吃AI也有這樣跨部會召集的委員會我們有一個現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動那副院長 政府院長召集我協助裡面會把AI產業的推動也會放在這裡不是 院長\n728770\t757045\t這樣大家越聽越模糊啊你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0是主委在協調然後你的AI基本法草案又給速發部來處理那你這個台灣到底AI是不是多頭N頭馬車啊這是副院長主持的是院級的副院長主持的智慧國家2.0所以不需要這個戰略了是不是智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎戰略可以在那邊談那速發部會是一個很重要的執行的一個部會\n757805\t776927\t那其他的包含經濟部國會也都會協助沒關係我想這個整合的戰略我們還是希望有一個中央的帶頭啦否則的話我覺得現在這樣一團混亂再來我還是想請教一下院長現在啦我想繁體中文面臨到這個存續的問題我們很感謝文化部幫忙我們啦\n777788\t803116\t跟這個相關的這個企業來溝通讓這個YouTube還有很多的平台繁中是繼續支持的那我請教一下院長你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放相關法制化的作業我們在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫這個AI訓練院長知不知道什麼意思我們一直包括我們大型語言模型Tide這個就是一個大型的資料庫\n804073\t832780\t我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的這個概念底下能夠跟民間充分來使用國家現有的資源對不起 院長你可能要回去做一下功課TIDE是所謂的大型語言模型它不是一個資料庫我們需要一個國家級的資料庫台德在喊說資料不夠民間也在喊說資料不夠我們要有一個AI的語料庫讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用院長可不可以支持這樣的主張啊\n834706\t857838\t我們的確朝這個方向在走因為我們要發展主權AI一定要建自己的資料庫什麼時候會完成我們什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫這部分的工作現在在速發部因為他負責資料治理速發部負責資料治理所以速發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案他都會去推動\n859366\t875001\t在推動的過程當中會跟我們的國防中心沒有關係謝謝相關的資料請提供出來院長我相信你已經可以看到了啦一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車沒有資料沒有AI沒有電也沒有AI啦事實上我們想要告訴你的\n875661\t895715\t我們需要核電我們需要更多元的能源彭子前董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢啦我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新我們甚至中研院所做出的近零五支箭完全沒有任何一支是核能啦\n896455\t913073\t結果我們的中研院告訴我們說沒有人在討論的我們才把它放進來變成箭有人在討論就是有用的箭啊沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭啊我們怎麼中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要設出的是五支沒有用的箭呢我想最後想要讓院長知道啦\n913593\t927706\t五月十七河山研議在即啦我們的河山場還可以放九年半以上我們是不是可以不要再大罷免大拖度了我們要大台灣大成功我們更理性看待台灣的需要可以嗎謝謝葛如今委員資訊謝謝卓院長 國科會背景 謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢各位好院長好我想我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注我們目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度\n這實際上也是陳建仁前院長以及吳政中前政委卸任之前心心念念的嘱托啦也是所有的人都非常關注的回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程早在去年3月本席剛剛就任就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度當時呢陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成那當時呢我們有一位先發投手吳政中前政委進一步表示\n即便他從內閣回歸民間但是科技政策是會延續的預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出預計將會尋所謂的美日模式也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主風險歸管為輔\n不過去年520新內閣上任以後卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣對於各界可以說是非常非常的期待對於AI基本法的設定具以厚望認為錢建仁前院長交棒給卓院長AI基本法的草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院\n當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳振中前主委交給了我們現在的吳承文主委如果說吳振中主委是所謂的先發投手那麼我想吳承文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手如果狀態好的話應該可以一路投下去投到第九局取得比賽的勝利去年剛剛登板的吳承文主委也不負眾望了\n一開始就給我們投出好球在6月的時候就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法的草案收集了各界的意見再次投出好球主委您11月28號在教皇委員會也在詢答的時候說\n草案方向未有大幅變動預計最晚於明年也就是今年的第一個會期呢送到立法院審議直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球我想請教齁那當時呢也國科會表示一定會在新會期也就是這個會期重新送出我想請教員工智慧基本法法案草案送出來了沒跟委員報告\n吳承文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手所以他投了很多好球送出了沒 送出了沒去年底我們經過國科會送到行政院行政院也再一次的進行審議我們對內容還有一些意見所以現在還沒送出對 我們是審慎起見\n其實這個180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出沒想到剛剛二月初的時候國科會都還說沒問題結果二月底突然豬羊變色在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被我們的這個教練來換將\n改由速發部上場投球行政院立場突然180度大轉變宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由速發部來主管對此吼我們這個吳承恩主委也有相關的說明不過各見一片嘩然啊不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變林鄭換將外界物理看花抽絲剝繭沒有一個答案院長\n請問,這是不是真的?\n因為經過院內包括政委包括各部會相關的討論我們認為這個AI基本法牽扯到國家安全也牽扯到這個基本的安全上的管理跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大所以交由部會更有能力但是吳承偉主委用政委的身份隨時在督導這個工作絕對沒有問題謝謝院長我要問的是這是不是您的指示\n是不是行政院的指示在討論之後做最後終決定的當然是院長院長\n事實上你說得很好嘛 是你做的決定對不對對嘛 你剛剛說了嘛2月26號其實是星期三並不是行政院院會召開的日期本席上網特地查了2月20號 2月27號是行政院院會的決議這兩次的會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法請問院長\n到底在什麼樣的場合什麼樣的會議上去指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交速發布這個跟委員報告行政院除了行政院會之外我們還有政委的政務會議同時每一天不定時不定內容的我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議都會做成重要的決定但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會做決定好\n2月26號說改交嘛那這是哪一場會議這是哪一場會議抱歉委員這樣問我必須要查一下這是哪一場一定是經過一個所以必然是經過會議嘛一定是經過討論之後的調整那有沒有會議記錄有沒有會議記錄有沒有公文佐證查出來相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論的會議2月26號為什麼我要這樣問因為各界非常\n擔憂覺得為什麼會突然林鄭換將這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件啊我們我國在對AI的這個法規上是不是在打假球要對全國對全世界來做一個很奇怪的振錢換將的做法\n到底是什麼樣的原因大家會非常懷疑啊事實上政治呢2月26號其實是民進黨2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會啊是民進黨的會議啊沒有關係嘛\n所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解我再請教院長人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法一共18條裡面只有5條是做風險的監管可以說本來是要定調研發為主監管為輔在先發投手的時期但是現在政院版的草案的主管機關改為速發部\n國務科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就正式要定調為從鼓勵研發科研創新轉為強調風險監管的方向院長那並不衝突\n這就跟你的這個特別預算一樣什麼都要參進來嗎並不衝突不是來AI就是一個研發也要管控它的風險管理這並不衝突啊好沒關係你說沒有衝突那我就告訴院長為什麼速發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關這裡面是可能存在衝突的第一根據速發部所提供的資料\n素產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關這還不是AI喔 是5.9億元相比之下114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發的預算一共將近52億元總共掌握的很可能還是到300億的規模\n以預算的規模來看 國科會來掌握AI科研的預算是速發部的10倍所以這個其實就是一種差異啊 對不起 稍微等我一下還有第二點 從組織架構來看 國科會是中央二級機關預算員額加聘僱大概有299人 速產署是三級機關\n加上這個聘用人員大概只有163個人,在資源和人力雙重缺乏的之下,怎麼能夠承擔我們的AI整體發展的重任呢?第三,法治量能速發部是一向為人併購的,我們沒有批評的意思,但事實上就是11屆會期到目前為止,總共速發部只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法,\n完全AI基本法到現在也草案的修正也沒看到影子沒錢沒人沒有法治量人怎麼能做我國的未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢這是怎麼做的呢為什麼會有這樣的一個事情呢報告委員我們科技研發的預算國會來編列那我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發而是我們的學界我們的產業界研究機構都會做然後速發部呢將來會做產業AI的產業的推動\n好 謝謝 謝謝主委我沒有問您 我要問院長\n您剛剛說可以平衡啊可是速發部就是沒有在做這塊啊沒有預算沒有人沒有錢在主管的單位上面更是速產署三級機關這怎麼科研怎麼發展怎麼創新院長您可以回應一下嗎我是真的很誠心的去請教啊數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行他重要在執行一個部會比一個\n委員會來講它的執行能力會更強所以我們是著眼這樣子必須做高風險的安全管理院長你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎數位產業它包含比較大所以我們剛剛看到只做資安跟素產我們的人力就已經不夠了草案都申不出來了你覺得它有量能可以繼續做AI嗎委員會要求速發部\n在現在的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院我們的方向到底是不是轉變了我們以科研為主 創新為主轉成速發部 速發部是打詐跟治安嘛我們現在 您剛剛也講了是不是以風險公關 要就講清楚我們的方向是不是轉變了我們要並重 我們要鼓勵民間\n多研發 我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理讓它高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制好 如果你說併重的話 請教院長您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全會報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會您說要併重嘛 您才有高度可以併重啊主委還是政委嘛\n蘇發部他也沒有辦法跨部會協調所以您支持這個說法嗎我們現在已經有跨部會的自動安全匯報因為戰略人工智慧戰略特別委員會我們在公立會裡大家都提出來目前我們是沒有這樣的規劃但是我們已經有跨部會的一個\n跨部會的自動安全匯報來統合各部會的工作所以要把AI放到自動安全匯報裡面嗎我說我們現在已經有這個我們可以跨部會來做自動安全匯報我說吃不吃吃AI也有這樣跨部會召集的委員會我們有一個現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動那副院長 政府院長召集我協助裡面會把AI產業的推動也會放在這裡不是 院長\n這樣大家越聽越模糊啊你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0是主委在協調然後你的AI基本法草案又給速發部來處理那你這個台灣到底AI是不是多頭N頭馬車啊這是副院長主持的是院級的副院長主持的智慧國家2.0所以不需要這個戰略了是不是智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎戰略可以在那邊談那速發部會是一個很重要的執行的一個部會\n那其他的包含經濟部國會也都會協助沒關係我想這個整合的戰略我們還是希望有一個中央的帶頭啦否則的話我覺得現在這樣一團混亂再來我還是想請教一下院長現在啦我想繁體中文面臨到這個存續的問題我們很感謝文化部幫忙我們啦\n跟這個相關的這個企業來溝通讓這個YouTube還有很多的平台繁中是繼續支持的那我請教一下院長你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放相關法制化的作業我們在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫這個AI訓練院長知不知道什麼意思我們一直包括我們大型語言模型Tide這個就是一個大型的資料庫\n我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的這個概念底下能夠跟民間充分來使用國家現有的資源對不起 院長你可能要回去做一下功課TIDE是所謂的大型語言模型它不是一個資料庫我們需要一個國家級的資料庫台德在喊說資料不夠民間也在喊說資料不夠我們要有一個AI的語料庫讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用院長可不可以支持這樣的主張啊\n我們的確朝這個方向在走因為我們要發展主權AI一定要建自己的資料庫什麼時候會完成我們什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫這部分的工作現在在速發部因為他負責資料治理速發部負責資料治理所以速發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案他都會去推動\n在推動的過程當中會跟我們的國防中心沒有關係謝謝相關的資料請提供出來院長我相信你已經可以看到了啦一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車沒有資料沒有AI沒有電也沒有AI啦事實上我們想要告訴你的\n我們需要核電我們需要更多元的能源彭子前董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢啦我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新我們甚至中研院所做出的近零五支箭完全沒有任何一支是核能啦\n結果我們的中研院告訴我們說沒有人在討論的我們才把它放進來變成箭有人在討論就是有用的箭啊沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭啊我們怎麼中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要設出的是五支沒有用的箭呢我想最後想要讓院長知道啦\n五月十七河山研議在即啦我們的河山場還可以放九年半以上我們是不是可以不要再大罷免大拖度了我們要大台灣大成功我們更理性看待台灣的需要可以嗎謝謝葛如今委員資訊謝謝卓院長 國科會背景 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.955 --> 00:12.238\n好謝謝主席有請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢各位好院長好我想我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注我們目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度\n\n00:34.882 --> 01:03.221\n這實際上也是陳建仁前院長以及吳政中前政委卸任之前心心念念的嘱托啦也是所有的人都非常關注的回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程早在去年3月本席剛剛就任就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度當時呢陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成那當時呢我們有一位先發投手吳政中前政委進一步表示\n\n01:03.841 --> 01:17.632\n即便他從內閣回歸民間但是科技政策是會延續的預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出預計將會尋所謂的美日模式也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主風險歸管為輔\n\n01:21.295 --> 01:43.954\n不過去年520新內閣上任以後卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣對於各界可以說是非常非常的期待對於AI基本法的設定具以厚望認為錢建仁前院長交棒給卓院長AI基本法的草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院\n\n01:45.174 --> 02:08.622\n當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳振中前主委交給了我們現在的吳承文主委如果說吳振中主委是所謂的先發投手那麼我想吳承文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手如果狀態好的話應該可以一路投下去投到第九局取得比賽的勝利去年剛剛登板的吳承文主委也不負眾望了\n\n02:09.082 --> 02:30.676\n一開始就給我們投出好球在6月的時候就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法的草案收集了各界的意見再次投出好球主委您11月28號在教皇委員會也在詢答的時候說\n\n02:31.616 --> 02:59.156\n草案方向未有大幅變動預計最晚於明年也就是今年的第一個會期呢送到立法院審議直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球我想請教齁那當時呢也國科會表示一定會在新會期也就是這個會期重新送出我想請教員工智慧基本法法案草案送出來了沒跟委員報告\n\n03:00.297 --> 03:17.498\n吳承文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手所以他投了很多好球送出了沒送出了沒去年底我們經過國科會送到行政院行政院也再一次的進行審議我們對內容還有一些意見所以現在還沒送出對我們是審慎起見\n\n03:19.463 --> 03:40.528\n其實這個180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出沒想到剛剛二月初的時候國科會都還說沒問題結果二月底突然豬羊變色在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被我們的這個教練來換將\n\n03:42.608 --> 04:07.350\n改由速發部上場投球行政院立場突然180度大轉變宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由速發部來主管對此吼我們這個吳承恩主委也有相關的說明不過各見一片嘩然啊不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變林鄭換將外界物理看花抽絲剝繭沒有一個答案院長\n\n04:08.251 --> 04:08.511\n請問,這是不是真的?\n\n04:23.203 --> 04:48.324\n因為經過院內包括政委包括各部會相關的討論我們認為這個AI基本法牽扯到國家安全也牽扯到這個基本的安全上的管理跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大所以交由部會更有能力但是吳承偉主委用政委的身份隨時在督導這個工作絕對沒有問題謝謝院長我要問的是這是不是您的指示\n\n04:49.025 --> 04:54.133\n是不是行政院的指示在討論之後做最後終決定的當然是院長院長\n\n04:56.129 --> 05:21.661\n事實上你說得很好嘛是你做的決定對不對對嘛你剛剛說了嘛2月26號其實是星期三並不是行政院院會召開的日期本席上網特地查了2月20號2月27號是行政院院會的決議這兩次的會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法請問院長\n\n05:22.501 --> 05:48.459\n到底在什麼樣的場合什麼樣的會議上去指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交速發布這個跟委員報告行政院除了行政院會之外我們還有政委的政務會議同時每一天不定時不定內容的我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議都會做成重要的決定但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會做決定好\n\n05:49.359 --> 06:13.813\n2月26號說改交嘛那這是哪一場會議這是哪一場會議抱歉委員這樣問我必須要查一下這是哪一場一定是經過一個所以必然是經過會議嘛一定是經過討論之後的調整那有沒有會議記錄有沒有會議記錄有沒有公文佐證查出來相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論的會議2月26號為什麼我要這樣問因為各界非常\n\n06:19.081 --> 06:37.140\n擔憂覺得為什麼會突然林鄭換將這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件啊我們我國在對AI的這個法規上是不是在打假球要對全國對全世界來做一個很奇怪的振錢換將的做法\n\n06:37.878 --> 06:45.889\n到底是什麼樣的原因大家會非常懷疑啊事實上政治呢2月26號其實是民進黨2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會啊是民進黨的會議啊沒有關係嘛\n\n06:54.440 --> 07:21.429\n所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解我再請教院長人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法一共18條裡面只有5條是做風險的監管可以說本來是要定調研發為主監管為輔在先發投手的時期但是現在政院版的草案的主管機關改為速發部\n\n07:23.170 --> 07:35.568\n國務科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就正式要定調為從鼓勵研發科研創新轉為強調風險監管的方向院長那並不衝突\n\n07:41.192 --> 08:04.722\n這就跟你的這個特別預算一樣什麼都要參進來嗎並不衝突不是來AI就是一個研發也要管控它的風險管理這並不衝突啊好沒關係你說沒有衝突那我就告訴院長為什麼速發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關這裡面是可能存在衝突的第一根據速發部所提供的資料\n\n08:05.482 --> 08:28.367\n素產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關這還不是AI喔是5.9億元相比之下114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發的預算一共將近52億元總共掌握的很可能還是到300億的規模\n\n08:29.827 --> 08:49.759\n以預算的規模來看國科會來掌握AI科研的預算是速發部的10倍所以這個其實就是一種差異啊對不起稍微等我一下還有第二點從組織架構來看國科會是中央二級機關預算員額加聘僱大概有299人速產署是三級機關\n\n08:51.320 --> 09:13.861\n加上這個聘用人員大概只有163個人,在資源和人力雙重缺乏的之下,怎麼能夠承擔我們的AI整體發展的重任呢?第三,法治量能速發部是一向為人併購的,我們沒有批評的意思,但事實上就是11屆會期到目前為止,總共速發部只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法,\n\n09:14.341 --> 09:39.308\n完全AI基本法到現在也草案的修正也沒看到影子沒錢沒人沒有法治量人怎麼能做我國的未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢這是怎麼做的呢為什麼會有這樣的一個事情呢報告委員我們科技研發的預算國會來編列那我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發而是我們的學界我們的產業界研究機構都會做然後速發部呢將來會做產業AI的產業的推動\n\n09:42.312 --> 09:44.826\n好謝謝謝謝主委我沒有問您我要問院長\n\n09:46.138 --> 10:11.312\n您剛剛說可以平衡啊可是速發部就是沒有在做這塊啊沒有預算沒有人沒有錢在主管的單位上面更是速產署三級機關這怎麼科研怎麼發展怎麼創新院長您可以回應一下嗎我是真的很誠心的去請教啊數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行他重要在執行一個部會比一個\n\n10:12.293 --> 10:37.262\n委員會來講它的執行能力會更強所以我們是著眼這樣子必須做高風險的安全管理院長你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎數位產業它包含比較大所以我們剛剛看到只做資安跟素產我們的人力就已經不夠了草案都申不出來了你覺得它有量能可以繼續做AI嗎委員會要求速發部\n\n10:38.447 --> 10:59.558\n在現在的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院我們的方向到底是不是轉變了我們以科研為主創新為主轉成速發部速發部是打詐跟治安嘛我們現在您剛剛也講了是不是以風險公關要就講清楚我們的方向是不是轉變了我們要並重我們要鼓勵民間\n\n11:00.778 --> 11:23.892\n多研發我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理讓它高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制好如果你說併重的話請教院長您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全會報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會您說要併重嘛您才有高度可以併重啊主委還是政委嘛\n\n11:25.793 --> 11:40.524\n蘇發部他也沒有辦法跨部會協調所以您支持這個說法嗎我們現在已經有跨部會的自動安全匯報因為戰略人工智慧戰略特別委員會我們在公立會裡大家都提出來目前我們是沒有這樣的規劃但是我們已經有跨部會的一個\n\n11:42.011 --> 12:07.529\n跨部會的自動安全匯報來統合各部會的工作所以要把AI放到自動安全匯報裡面嗎我說我們現在已經有這個我們可以跨部會來做自動安全匯報我說吃不吃吃AI也有這樣跨部會召集的委員會我們有一個現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動那副院長政府院長召集我協助裡面會把AI產業的推動也會放在這裡不是院長\n\n12:08.770 --> 12:37.045\n這樣大家越聽越模糊啊你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0是主委在協調然後你的AI基本法草案又給速發部來處理那你這個台灣到底AI是不是多頭N頭馬車啊這是副院長主持的是院級的副院長主持的智慧國家2.0所以不需要這個戰略了是不是智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎戰略可以在那邊談那速發部會是一個很重要的執行的一個部會\n\n12:37.805 --> 12:56.927\n那其他的包含經濟部國會也都會協助沒關係我想這個整合的戰略我們還是希望有一個中央的帶頭啦否則的話我覺得現在這樣一團混亂再來我還是想請教一下院長現在啦我想繁體中文面臨到這個存續的問題我們很感謝文化部幫忙我們啦\n\n12:57.788 --> 13:23.116\n跟這個相關的這個企業來溝通讓這個YouTube還有很多的平台繁中是繼續支持的那我請教一下院長你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放相關法制化的作業我們在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫這個AI訓練院長知不知道什麼意思我們一直包括我們大型語言模型Tide這個就是一個大型的資料庫\n\n13:24.073 --> 13:52.780\n我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的這個概念底下能夠跟民間充分來使用國家現有的資源對不起院長你可能要回去做一下功課TIDE是所謂的大型語言模型它不是一個資料庫我們需要一個國家級的資料庫台德在喊說資料不夠民間也在喊說資料不夠我們要有一個AI的語料庫讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用院長可不可以支持這樣的主張啊\n\n13:54.706 --> 14:17.838\n我們的確朝這個方向在走因為我們要發展主權AI一定要建自己的資料庫什麼時候會完成我們什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫這部分的工作現在在速發部因為他負責資料治理速發部負責資料治理所以速發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案他都會去推動\n\n14:19.366 --> 14:35.001\n在推動的過程當中會跟我們的國防中心沒有關係謝謝相關的資料請提供出來院長我相信你已經可以看到了啦一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車沒有資料沒有AI沒有電也沒有AI啦事實上我們想要告訴你的\n\n14:35.661 --> 14:55.715\n我們需要核電我們需要更多元的能源彭子前董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢啦我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新我們甚至中研院所做出的近零五支箭完全沒有任何一支是核能啦\n\n14:56.455 --> 15:13.073\n結果我們的中研院告訴我們說沒有人在討論的我們才把它放進來變成箭有人在討論就是有用的箭啊沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭啊我們怎麼中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要設出的是五支沒有用的箭呢我想最後想要讓院長知道啦\n\n15:13.593 --> 15:27.706\n五月十七河山研議在即啦我們的河山場還可以放九年半以上我們是不是可以不要再大罷免大拖度了我們要大台灣大成功我們更理性看待台灣的需要可以嗎謝謝葛如今委員資訊謝謝卓院長國科會背景謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.955,"end":12.238,"text":"好謝謝主席有請卓榮泰院長麻煩請卓院長備詢各位好院長好我想我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注我們目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度"},{"start":34.882,"end":63.221,"text":"這實際上也是陳建仁前院長以及吳政中前政委卸任之前心心念念的嘱托啦也是所有的人都非常關注的回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程早在去年3月本席剛剛就任就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度當時呢陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成那當時呢我們有一位先發投手吳政中前政委進一步表示"},{"start":63.841,"end":77.632,"text":"即便他從內閣回歸民間但是科技政策是會延續的預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出預計將會尋所謂的美日模式也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主風險歸管為輔"},{"start":81.295,"end":103.954,"text":"不過去年520新內閣上任以後卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣對於各界可以說是非常非常的期待對於AI基本法的設定具以厚望認為錢建仁前院長交棒給卓院長AI基本法的草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院"},{"start":105.174,"end":128.622,"text":"當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳振中前主委交給了我們現在的吳承文主委如果說吳振中主委是所謂的先發投手那麼我想吳承文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手如果狀態好的話應該可以一路投下去投到第九局取得比賽的勝利去年剛剛登板的吳承文主委也不負眾望了"},{"start":129.082,"end":150.676,"text":"一開始就給我們投出好球在6月的時候就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法的草案收集了各界的意見再次投出好球主委您11月28號在教皇委員會也在詢答的時候說"},{"start":151.616,"end":179.156,"text":"草案方向未有大幅變動預計最晚於明年也就是今年的第一個會期呢送到立法院審議直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球我想請教齁那當時呢也國科會表示一定會在新會期也就是這個會期重新送出我想請教員工智慧基本法法案草案送出來了沒跟委員報告"},{"start":180.297,"end":197.498,"text":"吳承文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手所以他投了很多好球送出了沒 送出了沒去年底我們經過國科會送到行政院行政院也再一次的進行審議我們對內容還有一些意見所以現在還沒送出對 我們是審慎起見"},{"start":199.463,"end":220.528,"text":"其實這個180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出沒想到剛剛二月初的時候國科會都還說沒問題結果二月底突然豬羊變色在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被我們的這個教練來換將"},{"start":222.608,"end":247.35,"text":"改由速發部上場投球行政院立場突然180度大轉變宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由速發部來主管對此吼我們這個吳承恩主委也有相關的說明不過各見一片嘩然啊不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變林鄭換將外界物理看花抽絲剝繭沒有一個答案院長"},{"start":248.251,"end":248.511,"text":"請問,這是不是真的?"},{"start":263.203,"end":288.324,"text":"因為經過院內包括政委包括各部會相關的討論我們認為這個AI基本法牽扯到國家安全也牽扯到這個基本的安全上的管理跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大所以交由部會更有能力但是吳承偉主委用政委的身份隨時在督導這個工作絕對沒有問題謝謝院長我要問的是這是不是您的指示"},{"start":289.025,"end":294.133,"text":"是不是行政院的指示在討論之後做最後終決定的當然是院長院長"},{"start":296.129,"end":321.661,"text":"事實上你說得很好嘛 是你做的決定對不對對嘛 你剛剛說了嘛2月26號其實是星期三並不是行政院院會召開的日期本席上網特地查了2月20號 2月27號是行政院院會的決議這兩次的會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法請問院長"},{"start":322.501,"end":348.459,"text":"到底在什麼樣的場合什麼樣的會議上去指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交速發布這個跟委員報告行政院除了行政院會之外我們還有政委的政務會議同時每一天不定時不定內容的我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議都會做成重要的決定但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會做決定好"},{"start":349.359,"end":373.813,"text":"2月26號說改交嘛那這是哪一場會議這是哪一場會議抱歉委員這樣問我必須要查一下這是哪一場一定是經過一個所以必然是經過會議嘛一定是經過討論之後的調整那有沒有會議記錄有沒有會議記錄有沒有公文佐證查出來相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論的會議2月26號為什麼我要這樣問因為各界非常"},{"start":379.081,"end":397.14,"text":"擔憂覺得為什麼會突然林鄭換將這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件啊我們我國在對AI的這個法規上是不是在打假球要對全國對全世界來做一個很奇怪的振錢換將的做法"},{"start":397.878,"end":405.889,"text":"到底是什麼樣的原因大家會非常懷疑啊事實上政治呢2月26號其實是民進黨2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會啊是民進黨的會議啊沒有關係嘛"},{"start":414.44,"end":441.429,"text":"所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解我再請教院長人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法一共18條裡面只有5條是做風險的監管可以說本來是要定調研發為主監管為輔在先發投手的時期但是現在政院版的草案的主管機關改為速發部"},{"start":443.17,"end":455.568,"text":"國務科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就正式要定調為從鼓勵研發科研創新轉為強調風險監管的方向院長那並不衝突"},{"start":461.192,"end":484.722,"text":"這就跟你的這個特別預算一樣什麼都要參進來嗎並不衝突不是來AI就是一個研發也要管控它的風險管理這並不衝突啊好沒關係你說沒有衝突那我就告訴院長為什麼速發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關這裡面是可能存在衝突的第一根據速發部所提供的資料"},{"start":485.482,"end":508.367,"text":"素產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關這還不是AI喔 是5.9億元相比之下114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發的預算一共將近52億元總共掌握的很可能還是到300億的規模"},{"start":509.827,"end":529.759,"text":"以預算的規模來看 國科會來掌握AI科研的預算是速發部的10倍所以這個其實就是一種差異啊 對不起 稍微等我一下還有第二點 從組織架構來看 國科會是中央二級機關預算員額加聘僱大概有299人 速產署是三級機關"},{"start":531.32,"end":553.861,"text":"加上這個聘用人員大概只有163個人,在資源和人力雙重缺乏的之下,怎麼能夠承擔我們的AI整體發展的重任呢?第三,法治量能速發部是一向為人併購的,我們沒有批評的意思,但事實上就是11屆會期到目前為止,總共速發部只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法,"},{"start":554.341,"end":579.308,"text":"完全AI基本法到現在也草案的修正也沒看到影子沒錢沒人沒有法治量人怎麼能做我國的未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢這是怎麼做的呢為什麼會有這樣的一個事情呢報告委員我們科技研發的預算國會來編列那我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發而是我們的學界我們的產業界研究機構都會做然後速發部呢將來會做產業AI的產業的推動"},{"start":582.312,"end":584.826,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝主委我沒有問您 我要問院長"},{"start":586.138,"end":611.312,"text":"您剛剛說可以平衡啊可是速發部就是沒有在做這塊啊沒有預算沒有人沒有錢在主管的單位上面更是速產署三級機關這怎麼科研怎麼發展怎麼創新院長您可以回應一下嗎我是真的很誠心的去請教啊數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行他重要在執行一個部會比一個"},{"start":612.293,"end":637.262,"text":"委員會來講它的執行能力會更強所以我們是著眼這樣子必須做高風險的安全管理院長你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎數位產業它包含比較大所以我們剛剛看到只做資安跟素產我們的人力就已經不夠了草案都申不出來了你覺得它有量能可以繼續做AI嗎委員會要求速發部"},{"start":638.447,"end":659.558,"text":"在現在的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院我們的方向到底是不是轉變了我們以科研為主 創新為主轉成速發部 速發部是打詐跟治安嘛我們現在 您剛剛也講了是不是以風險公關 要就講清楚我們的方向是不是轉變了我們要並重 我們要鼓勵民間"},{"start":660.778,"end":683.892,"text":"多研發 我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理讓它高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制好 如果你說併重的話 請教院長您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全會報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會您說要併重嘛 您才有高度可以併重啊主委還是政委嘛"},{"start":685.793,"end":700.524,"text":"蘇發部他也沒有辦法跨部會協調所以您支持這個說法嗎我們現在已經有跨部會的自動安全匯報因為戰略人工智慧戰略特別委員會我們在公立會裡大家都提出來目前我們是沒有這樣的規劃但是我們已經有跨部會的一個"},{"start":702.011,"end":727.529,"text":"跨部會的自動安全匯報來統合各部會的工作所以要把AI放到自動安全匯報裡面嗎我說我們現在已經有這個我們可以跨部會來做自動安全匯報我說吃不吃吃AI也有這樣跨部會召集的委員會我們有一個現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動那副院長 政府院長召集我協助裡面會把AI產業的推動也會放在這裡不是 院長"},{"start":728.77,"end":757.045,"text":"這樣大家越聽越模糊啊你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0是主委在協調然後你的AI基本法草案又給速發部來處理那你這個台灣到底AI是不是多頭N頭馬車啊這是副院長主持的是院級的副院長主持的智慧國家2.0所以不需要這個戰略了是不是智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎戰略可以在那邊談那速發部會是一個很重要的執行的一個部會"},{"start":757.805,"end":776.927,"text":"那其他的包含經濟部國會也都會協助沒關係我想這個整合的戰略我們還是希望有一個中央的帶頭啦否則的話我覺得現在這樣一團混亂再來我還是想請教一下院長現在啦我想繁體中文面臨到這個存續的問題我們很感謝文化部幫忙我們啦"},{"start":777.788,"end":803.116,"text":"跟這個相關的這個企業來溝通讓這個YouTube還有很多的平台繁中是繼續支持的那我請教一下院長你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放相關法制化的作業我們在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫這個AI訓練院長知不知道什麼意思我們一直包括我們大型語言模型Tide這個就是一個大型的資料庫"},{"start":804.073,"end":832.78,"text":"我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的這個概念底下能夠跟民間充分來使用國家現有的資源對不起 院長你可能要回去做一下功課TIDE是所謂的大型語言模型它不是一個資料庫我們需要一個國家級的資料庫台德在喊說資料不夠民間也在喊說資料不夠我們要有一個AI的語料庫讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用院長可不可以支持這樣的主張啊"},{"start":834.706,"end":857.838,"text":"我們的確朝這個方向在走因為我們要發展主權AI一定要建自己的資料庫什麼時候會完成我們什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫這部分的工作現在在速發部因為他負責資料治理速發部負責資料治理所以速發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案他都會去推動"},{"start":859.366,"end":875.001,"text":"在推動的過程當中會跟我們的國防中心沒有關係謝謝相關的資料請提供出來院長我相信你已經可以看到了啦一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車沒有資料沒有AI沒有電也沒有AI啦事實上我們想要告訴你的"},{"start":875.661,"end":895.715,"text":"我們需要核電我們需要更多元的能源彭子前董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢啦我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新我們甚至中研院所做出的近零五支箭完全沒有任何一支是核能啦"},{"start":896.455,"end":913.073,"text":"結果我們的中研院告訴我們說沒有人在討論的我們才把它放進來變成箭有人在討論就是有用的箭啊沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭啊我們怎麼中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要設出的是五支沒有用的箭呢我想最後想要讓院長知道啦"},{"start":913.593,"end":927.706,"text":"五月十七河山研議在即啦我們的河山場還可以放九年半以上我們是不是可以不要再大罷免大拖度了我們要大台灣大成功我們更理性看待台灣的需要可以嗎謝謝葛如今委員資訊謝謝卓院長 國科會背景 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":226,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（15時24分）謝謝主席，有請卓榮泰院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：葛委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：院長好。我國的科研界及產業界都非常關注目前人工智慧基本法的立法方向跟進度，這實際上也是陳建仁前院長，以及吳政忠前政委卸任之前心心念念的囑託，也是所有的人都非常關注的。回顧我國整個人工智慧基本法的研議過程，早在去年3月本席剛剛就任，就曾經質詢過AI基本法草案的進度，當時陳建仁前院長表示樂觀其成，當時我們有一位先發投手吳政忠前政委進一步表示，即便他從內閣回歸民間，但是科技政策是會延續的，預計2024年年底會有院版的草案提出，將會循所謂的美日模式，也就是對AI是鼓勵研發跟創新為主，風險規管為輔。不過，去年520新內閣上任以後，卓院長您所率領的團隊說是AI內閣，各界可以說是非常非常的期待，對於AI基本法的制定寄予厚望，認為陳建仁前院長交棒給卓院長，AI基本法草案一定就能夠在24年年底送進立法院，當時制定人工智慧基本法的重責大任也就從吳政忠前主委交給了現在的吳誠文主委。如果吳政忠主委是所謂的先發投手，那麼我想吳誠文主委就是非常重要的中繼投手，如果狀態好的話，應該可以一路投下去，投到第9局取得比賽的勝利。去年剛剛登板的吳誠文主委也不負眾望，一開始就給我們投出好球，在6月就召開了人工智慧基本法的首場諮詢會議，並且在7月15號正式預告人工智慧基本法草案，蒐集了各界的意見，再次投出好球。主委11月28號在教文委員會詢答的時候說，草案方向未有大幅變動，預計最晚於明年，也就是今年的第一個會期送到立法院審議。直到今年的2月6號行政院會後記者會，國科會也都還持續在場上穩定的投球。我想請教，當時國科會也表示一定會在新會期，也就是這個會期重新送出，我想請教人工智慧基本法草案送出來了沒？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，吳誠文主委五十多年前就一直是國家的勝利投手……"],["葛委員如鈞：知道，所以他投了很多好球。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以他一定會投出好球。"],["葛委員如鈞：送出了沒？草案送出了沒？"],["卓院長榮泰：人工智慧基本法去年底經過國科會送到行政院，行政院也再一次進行審議，我們對內容還有一些意見，所以現在重新……"],["葛委員如鈞：還沒送出？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我們是審慎起見。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，其實180度的髮夾彎轉折出現了，正當各界認為AI內閣應該要儘速提出，沒想到2月初國科會都還說沒問題，結果2月底突然豬羊變色，在場上穩定發揮的國科會突然被教練換將，改由數發部上場投球，行政院立場突然180度大轉變，宣布要將人工智慧基本法改由數發部主管。對此，吳誠文主委也有相關的說明，不過各界一片譁然，不知道到底什麼樣的理由這場比賽在終局之前有這麼大的轉變，臨陣換將，外界霧裡看花，抽絲剝繭，沒有一個答案。院長，根據數發部的說法，行政院今年2月26號指示將AI基本法草案改由數發部主政，推動法案立法及續行條文解釋，請問這是不是真的？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為經過院內包括政委，包括各部會相關的討論，我們認為AI基本法牽扯到國家安全，也牽扯到基本安全上的管理，跟人民的直接權益關係都有相當大的……所以交由部會更有能力，但是吳誠文主委用政委的身分隨時督導這個工作，絕對沒有問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝院長，我要問的是，這是不是您的指示？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是大家討論出來……"],["葛委員如鈞：這是不是行政院的指示？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然在討論之後，做最終決定的當然是院長。"],["葛委員如鈞：院長，事實上你說得很好嘛！是你做的決定對不對？對嘛！你剛剛說了嘛！2月26號其實是星期三，並不是行政院院會召開的日期，本席上網特地查了2月20號、2月27號有開行政院院會，這兩次會議無論是報告事項或討論事項都沒有人工智慧基本法，請問院長到底在什麼樣的場合、什麼樣的會議上指示國科會要將AI人工智慧基本法的草案改交數發部？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，行政院除了行政院院會之外，我們還有政委的政務會議，同時每一天不定時、不定內容，我們還有各個大大小小的相關會議，都會作成重要的決定，但最終重要的法案都會經過行政院院會才會作決定。"],["葛委員如鈞：好。2月26號說要改交，這是哪一場會議？這是哪一場會議？"],["卓院長榮泰：很抱歉，委員這樣問，我必須要查一下這是哪一場會議……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒有關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：但一定是經過一個程序的……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以必然是經過會議嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：一定是經過討論之後的調整。"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有會議紀錄？有沒有公文佐證？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們可以查相關談到人工智慧基本法的討論會議……"],["葛委員如鈞：好。2月26號，為什麼我要這樣問？因為各界非常擔憂，覺得為什麼會突然臨陣換將？這是不是一個黑心教練中途更換投手的黑心事件？我國在對AI的法規上是不是在打假球？要對全國、對全世界來做一個很奇怪的陣前換將的作法，到底是什麼樣的原因，大家會非常懷疑啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員您一直用這種聳動的標題來形容行政院的院會，我覺得是不適宜的。"],["葛委員如鈞：事實上，2月26號其實是民進黨的中常會，是民進黨的會議。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟民進黨中常會無關。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有關係嘛，所以2月26號的哪一場會議請提供資料。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["葛委員如鈞：否則這個重大的轉折大家沒有辦法理解。我再請教院長，人工智慧基本法等同於我國人工智慧基本的發展大法，一共18條，裡面只有5條是做風險的監管，可以說本來在先發投手的時期是要定調研發為主、監管為輔；但是現在政院版的草案主管機關改為數發部，國科會說要全新發展AI相關的研究，我們是不是可以確定我國對AI發展的未來整體規劃就要正式定調為從鼓勵研發、科研創新，轉為強調風險監管的方向？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：這並不衝突啊。"],["葛委員如鈞：這就跟你的特別預算一樣，什麼都要摻進來嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：並不衝突，本來AI就是研發，也要管控它的風險管理，這並不衝突啊。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒關係，你說沒有衝突，那我就告訴院長為什麼數發部其實是不適合作為人工智慧的主管機關，這裡面是可能存在衝突的，第一，根據數發部所提供的資料，數產署還有資安署都表示114年度沒有編列AI科研的預算，只有產業署勉強編列跟數位產業有關，這還不是AI喔，是5.9億元，相比之下，114年度國科會掌握的AI科技研發預算一共將近52億元，總共掌握的很可能是到300億的規模，以預算的規模來看，國科會掌握AI科研的預算是數發部的10倍，所以這其實就是一種差異啊！","第二點，從組織架構來看，國科會是中央二級機關，預算員額加聘僱大概有299人；數產署是三級機關，加上聘用人員大概只有163個人，在資源和人力雙重缺乏之下，怎麼能夠承擔我們AI整體發展的重任呢？","第三，法制量能的部分，數發部一向是為人詬病的，我們沒有批評的意思，但事實上，就是第11屆會期到目前為止，數發部總共只提出了電子簽章管理法和資通安全管理法，AI基本法到現在連草案的修正也沒看到影子。沒錢、沒人、沒有法制量能，怎麼能做我國未來人工智慧發展的主管機關呢？這是怎麼做的呢？為什麼會有這樣的事情呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，我們科技研發的預算，國科會來編列，我們支撐的當然不是政府在做研發，而是我們的學界、產業界、研究機構都會做；數發部數產署將來會做AI產業的推動。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝主委，我沒有問您，我要問院長，您剛剛說可以平衡，可是數發部就是沒有在做這塊啊，沒有預算、沒有人、沒有錢，主管的單位還是三級機關的數產署，這怎麼科研、怎麼發展、怎麼創新？院長，您可以回應一下嗎？我是真的很誠心地請教啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：數位發展部本來就是掌管國家重大的數位發展計畫以及執行，它重要的是在執行，一個部會跟一個委員會比起來，它的執行能力會更強，所以我們是這樣在著眼，必須去做高風險的安全管理。"],["葛委員如鈞：院長，你覺得數位產業跟AI產業是一樣的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：數位產業包含比較大。"],["葛委員如鈞：剛剛看到只做資安跟數產，我們的人力就已經不夠了，法律草案都生不出來了，你覺得它有量能可以繼續做AI嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會要求數發部在……"],["葛委員如鈞：你要擴充人力、擴充預算？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在可控的時間內儘速把AI基本法草案完整的送到行政院，從那之後……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們的方向到底是不是轉變了？我們原本以科研為主、創新為主，後來轉成數發部，數發部是打詐跟資安，您剛剛也講了，是不是以風險控管為主？要就講清楚，我們的方向是不是轉變了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要並重，我們要鼓勵民間多研發，我們也要著重於公權力上面的管理，讓高風險的管理能夠有安全的機制。"],["葛委員如鈞：如果你說並重的話，請教院長，您是否贊成應該比照行政院國家資通安全會報成立一個由行政院召集的國家人工智慧戰略特別委員會？您說要並重嘛，您才有高度可以並重啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：現在已經有行政院資通安全會報。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委也是政委嘛，數發部也沒有辦法跨部會協調，所以您支持這個說法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在已經有跨部會的資通安全會報，關於戰略特別委員會，目前……"],["葛委員如鈞：人工智慧戰略特別委員會，在公聽會裡大家都提出來，支不支持？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前我們沒有這樣的規劃，但是我們已經有一個跨部會的資通安全會報來統合各部會的工作了。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以要把AI放到資通安全會報裡面嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我說我們現在已經有這個，我們可以跨部會來做這個工作。"],["葛委員如鈞：我說支不支持AI也有這樣跨部會召集的委員會？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在有一個智慧國家2.0方案剛啟動，由鄭副院長召集、我協助，AI產業的推動也會放在這裡。"],["葛委員如鈞：不是，院長，這樣大家越聽越模糊啊！你的AI有一個智慧國家2.0，這是主委在協調，然後你的AI基本法草案又給數發部來處理，臺灣的AI到底是不是N頭馬車啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：是院級、副院長主持的智慧國家2.0。"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以各部會……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以需要這個戰略了，是不是？智慧國家2.0就是在講AI嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：戰略可以在那邊談，數發部是一個很重要的執行部會，其他包含經濟部、國科會也都會協助。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係，我們還是希望整合的戰略有一個中央的帶頭啦。"],["卓院長榮泰：有的！"],["葛委員如鈞：否則的話，我覺得現在這樣一團混亂！","再來，我還是想要請教一下院長，現在繁體中文面臨到存續的問題，我們很感謝文化部幫忙跟相關企業溝通，讓YouTube還有很多的平臺繼續支持繁中。我請教一下院長，你是不是認同我們應該要加速資料的開放、相關法制化的作業？在公聽會裡面也有很多專家說，我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫，院長知不知道這個AI訓練是什麼意思？"],["卓院長榮泰：包括我們的大型語言模型TAIDE，這個就是一個大型的資料庫，我們也希望資料能夠在開放政府的概念底下，讓民間充分使用國家現有的資源。"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，院長，你可能要去做一下功課，TAIDE是所謂的大型語言模型，它不是一個資料庫，我們需要一個國家級的資料庫，TAIDE在喊說資料不夠，民間也在喊說資料不夠，我們要有一個AI的語料庫，讓民間跟國家級的都可以來運用。院長，可不可以支持這樣的主張？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們的確朝這個方向在走，因為我們要發展主權AI，一定要建自己的資料庫……"],["葛委員如鈞：什麼時候會完成，我們有什麼時候會有這個國家級的AI資料庫？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這部分的工作現在在數發部，因為數發部負責資料治理，所以數發部在AI基本法以及相關資料治理的法案都會去推動，在推動過程當中會跟我們的國網中心合作。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有關係，謝謝，相關的資料請提供出來。","院長，我相信你已經看到了，一個AI產業到現在完全多頭馬車，沒有資料沒有AI、沒有電也沒有AI！事實上我們想要告訴你的，我們需要核電、我們需要更多元的能源，童子賢董事長也說了核綠不要偏廢，但我們發現我們完全沒有編列相關的補助在做核能的研究跟創新，甚至中研院所做出的淨零五支箭當中，完全沒有任何一支是核能，結果中研院告訴我們說，沒有人在討論的他們才把它放進來變成箭。有人在討論的就是有用的箭，沒人在討論可能就是沒用的箭，怎麼會中研院幫我們政府規劃出來要射出的是五支沒有用的箭呢？","最後想要讓院長知道，5月17日核三延役在即，我們的核三廠還可以放九年半以上，我們是不是可以不要再大罷免、大偷渡了？我們要大臺灣、大成功，我們更理性看待臺灣的需要，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們大合作。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，你說的！謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、國科會備詢，謝謝。","接下來是登記第4位許智傑委員質詢，以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員許智傑書面質詢：","一、推動三金、書展及各式大型藝文活動移師高雄辦理。","本席致力於推動南北平衡發展，在各委員會提出展覽、典禮、博覽會等活動移師高雄，期待國家重大政策及活動更重視南部國人權益，增加南部地區人文、藝術等文化發展可能。","於教育文化方面，在現有的資源分配機制下，迫使南北差距擴大。雖然南部地區因政策改善內外氣質已不同以往，過去被批「文化沙漠」的高雄，由大港開唱打響名號，許多世界級演出過往僅在台北，現皆出現在衛武營國家藝術文化中心聽歌劇、國家體育場等。","近年高雄迎來台積與高薪人才、演唱會經濟；從駁二藝術特區到高雄流行音樂中心、高雄港埠旅運中心3公里路程，高樓市景、遼闊海景分落兩側，用公共建設帶城市升級。","惟目前高雄許多藝文大型活動，多由高雄市政府主辦，依然較少中央主導活動挹注，本席過去推動多項活動移師高雄，包括：文博會、金曲獎、客家博覽會、鐵路便當節、觀光產業數位博覽會等。藝文活動方面，108年05月06日，本席爭取臺灣文博會到高雄，111年8月5日至8月14日臺灣文博會在高雄舉辦；111年11月8日，因同年7月第33屆金曲獎在高雄頗受好評，故更進一步爭取，三金輪流到高雄舉辦。","為消弭高雄及台北教育文化及觀光等差距，本席推動包括建設、大型展覽、會議活動在高雄扎根，建請文化部，研擬相關大型藝文活動，如：書展、三金、文博會常駐高雄，或進行雙展區等規劃，以利增加我國南部文化發展空間。","二、科技革命成為未來趨勢，針對高級中等以下教育提出完整AI教育方案。","本席持續關心學生就學狀況及教育品質，過去曾針對學生心理輔導等相關議題進行研究。亦就非山非市學校，許多資源無法精準挹注。鑒於我國面臨少子化及都市化，與教育政策問題，目前並未對AI教育提出完整方案。","雖我國近年來大力推展數位教育發展，政策上有許多結合數位教學的計畫，如：科技輔助自主學習計畫、中小學數位學習精進方案、強化中小學智慧學習暨教學計畫、校園5G示範教室與學習載具計畫、偏鄉數位培力推動計畫等。然目前多為階段性計畫，並無規劃長遠教育方針。","人工智慧正大幅改變教育型態，從行政管理到個人化學習皆然。根據美國研究顯示，現階段僅有20%教育機構認為師生已完全做好採納AI教育，本席認為除了階段性計畫、多元選修課程、AI數位競賽等，應針對課程課綱進行著墨。","生成式人工智慧的運用，無疑的將愈來愈廣泛，透過智慧校園的設施，幫助教、職員與學生熟悉新型態教育模式，本席建請教育部針對教育應用AI，提出初步課程課綱擬訂計畫，更符合未來教育趨勢及學生發展方向。"],["主席：再接下來我們請林倩綺委員質詢，蔡其昌委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-9","speakers":["韓國瑜","廖偉翔","顏寬恒","李彥秀","陳玉珍","馬文君","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","黃珊珊","鍾佳濱","吳秉叡","沈發惠","許宇甄","李昆澤","林思銘","葛如鈞","許智傑","林倩綺","蔡其昌","吳沛憶","李坤城","丁學忠","劉書彬"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2025-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00004","1143901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143901_00004"}}}