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\"所以我才說有關這個心理諮商這方面的話能不能就向下延伸我希望能夠向下延伸而且三次並不一定要限定三次有的他比較情節需要的話甚至應該考量他達到一定的效果而不是限定三次因為的確看到有一些個案就是說他們就三次然後三次就結束了非常可惜\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 756.538, \"end\": 756.619, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 756.619, \"end\": 756.659, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 756.659, \"end\": 756.739, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 756.739, \"end\": 757.339, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 757.339, \"end\": 758.14, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 758.14, \"end\": 758.3, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 758.3, \"end\": 758.941, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 758.941, \"end\": 759.321, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 759.321, \"end\": 759.441, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 759.441, \"end\": 759.541, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": 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775.936, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 775.936, \"end\": 776.136, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 776.136, \"end\": 776.596, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 776.596, \"end\": 776.757, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 776.757, \"end\": 777.017, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 777.017, \"end\": 777.497, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 777.497, \"end\": 777.617, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 777.617, \"end\": 777.697, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 777.697, \"end\": 777.858, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 777.858, \"end\": 778.678, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 778.678, \"end\": 778.899, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"束\", \"start\": 778.899, \"end\": 779.099, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 779.099, \"end\": 779.839, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 779.839, \"end\": 779.939, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 779.939, \"end\": 780.12, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 780.12, \"end\": 780.28, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"惜\", \"start\": 780.28, \"end\": 780.3, \"score\": 0.067}]}, {\"start\": 781.22, \"end\": 801.893, \"text\": \"我是希望說能夠再向下再延伸那次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整那第二個就是說在目前的健保的給付對於兒少心理諮商的這個補助的話那其實是二十幾年來沒有做調整那就是說精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本增加調整那有沒有這個調整的可能性\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 781.22, \"end\": 781.32, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 781.32, \"end\": 781.421, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 781.421, \"end\": 781.501, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 781.501, \"end\": 782.081, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 782.081, \"end\": 782.361, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 782.361, \"end\": 782.501, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 782.501, \"end\": 782.741, 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\"說\"}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 797.35, \"end\": 797.53, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"神\", \"start\": 797.53, \"end\": 798.151, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"療\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 798.151, \"end\": 798.551, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 798.551, \"end\": 798.651, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 798.651, \"end\": 798.951, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"隨\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 798.951, \"end\": 799.091, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 799.091, \"end\": 799.391, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 799.391, \"end\": 799.551, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 799.551, \"end\": 799.712, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 799.712, \"end\": 799.852, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 799.852, \"end\": 800.172, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 800.172, \"end\": 800.412, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 800.412, \"end\": 800.592, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 800.592, \"end\": 800.712, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 800.712, \"end\": 800.812, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 800.812, \"end\": 801.332, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 801.332, \"end\": 801.453, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 801.453, \"end\": 801.553, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 801.553, \"end\": 801.693, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 801.693, \"end\": 801.873, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 801.873, \"end\": 801.893, \"score\": 0.361}]}, {\"start\": 802.861, \"end\": 819.913, \"text\": \"我講一定是必要隨之在必須要調整的因為各方面的環境都在轉變那我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話會減少未來家庭的一個不幸的事件甚至犯罪事件甚至治安事件都可能會減少用這個來看政府的投資絕對是華德來值得的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 802.861, \"end\": 803.061, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, 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\"end\": 840.108, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}]}, {\"start\": 841.048, \"end\": 863.296, \"text\": \"我們政府跟金管會來澄清就是說兒少的這個保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或是精神整治的影響那我想這方面我們政府如果有一個比較明確的一個宣示的話那也比較不會影響到說家長去帶小孩去做這個心理諮商或是去看這個兒童心智科的一些影響\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 841.048, \"end\": 841.328, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 841.328, \"end\": 841.508, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 841.508, \"end\": 841.608, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 841.608, \"end\": 841.768, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 841.768, \"end\": 841.908, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 841.908, \"end\": 842.329, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"澄\", \"start\": 842.329, \"end\": 842.549, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 842.549, \"end\": 842.689, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 842.689, \"end\": 843.389, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": 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00:00:09,194\n謝謝主席我們請卓院長還有鄭部長麻煩請再請卓院長備詢下一步請備詢李文豪院長好部長好我接續剛剛這個蔡啟昌委員的一個話題就是說我們的運動部在今年的這個八九月會掛牌是不是\n\n2\n00:00:31,198 --> 00:00:46,528\n我們希望是那個時間那有提到這個運動部長人選我剛聽到這個院長是說這個全新的部長全新的運動部前瞻亮眼那我請問一下那大概是怎麼樣符合什麼樣條件可以來接這個運動部的部長\n\n3\n00:00:47,133 --> 00:01:02,338\n因為我們在籌設運動部的時候我一直強調這不是一個體育署的升格它是一個全新的運動部它要有全民體育運動它要有運動競技有國際的事務它還要有運動產業還有這個適應的體育等等\n\n4\n00:01:06,079 --> 00:01:23,814\n多元的方向跟過去的單一的學校或是比賽的運動截然是不同的所以我們需要一個全新的運動部所以我們也要有一個有不同視野的部長人選那這個我們現在正在多方的洽談尋覓當中現在已經有在找這一個適當人選就對了\n\n5\n00:01:25,876 --> 00:01:47,103\n我們有幾個心裡的想法這樣聽起來好像不是從我們原有的內閣裡面去找出來的好像是去外面找的是不是我強調一開始很多行政作業是必須要銜接的這個銜接的工作非常繁複我們也必須要有相當多的行政上鮮熟的公務人員來做一些銜接的工作這倒是必要的\n\n6\n00:01:47,443 --> 00:02:11,718\n好OK那我再請教一下這個院長這個我們現在有通過一個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別條例然後預算也是增加到四千一百億那其中呢在照顧民生這方面呢我們編列了一千六百七十億其中兩百億呢是給這個強化高等教育人才的培育那不過我聽到很多的政業黨的委員覺得說那這一筆預算或是說這個計畫本來就有了\n\n7\n00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:35,287\n他們認為說是不是在灌水啦那我請教一下院長或是部長那能不能再把這個計畫再說清楚一點為什麼在這個時候要把這個200億把它加進去好謝謝委員雖然我們這是因應國際情勢的強化安全任性的特別條例不全然單只是針對美國關稅貿易秩序的調整但是不可否認美國關稅貿易秩序調整\n\n8\n00:02:37,289 --> 00:02:47,170\n會造成我們國內各行各業的一些衝擊在產業現場來講更需要產學的合作也更需要引入延攬\n\n9\n00:02:48,203 --> 00:03:11,199\n更多的外國優秀的人才進到國家來去幫助產業幫助學術研究甚至很多學校他在未來充實學校設備的情況要購買新的設備也可能會因應到一些關稅的衝擊我們也必須對他做實質上的一些支持所以他不全然相關但是他一定有他相關的地方\n\n10\n00:03:11,559 --> 00:03:37,267\n所以我認為這是整套作業下來的那這個如果條例通過之後這個相關的一些施行的細則出來之後會比較清楚啦因為我看那個條例條例當然基本上特別條例不會寫得太細那我是希望說這部分的話那請教一下部長那大概如果條例通過之後多久相關的這一個施行的這個細則或是辦法會出來讓大家會更了解說我們這200億要怎麼去做\n\n11\n00:03:39,535 --> 00:04:01,073\n謝謝委員跟委員報告其實在這一個事實上在現場還沒有宣布之前事實上我們教育部都已經有在內部作業而且我在整個高等教育我們因應這一個人才的需求跟產業所帶來衝擊裡邊包含這一個許多的Science跟Inc.020這個所謂的理工科的老師在\n\n12\n00:04:01,954 --> 00:04:22,080\n怎麼樣去能夠強化許多延攬因為現在如果委員我相信在各大也聽到很多的一個聲音大學端幾乎在理學院、工學院已經聘不到老師因為都往業界跑了都往業界跑但特別在關稅以後所造成的衝擊我們相信他可能會有一些\n\n13\n00:04:23,101 --> 00:04:38,616\n對高等教育人才培育上的一個再把他們拉回來所以我們現在現場看起來很特別只是這個產學怎麼樣去有一個更緊密的合作我們在人才培育有一些更新的創新模式能夠為台灣培養人才也能夠為產業所用這裡邊的R&D應該是\n\n14\n00:04:42,119 --> 00:05:09,421\n產學要更緊密的合作讓這裡邊的許多的一些人才元朗包含這一個留任的獎金我們怎麼樣有一些更開拓性的一些對未來的想像事實上我們教育部也已經都有充分的在討論而且那個辦法會隨著這一個我們通過以後我們會立即提出那應該是蠻短時間就可以提出來了嗎通常我們在條例通過之後就會\n\n15\n00:05:11,119 --> 00:05:32,177\n詳細的詳列一個特別預算裡面各個單項就會像一個預算書一樣很詳盡的向大院報告所以那時候股價先出來了肉就會跟著出來了那我現在要講一個比較嚴肅的話題就是說現在在Netflix上面有一個英國的戲劇叫做《混沌少年史》不曉得院長跟部長有沒有看過或是聽過\n\n16\n00:05:34,582 --> 00:05:58,871\n好,沒有關係有時間,因為最近大家比較忙那這個四個小時而已啦那其實它這個裡面的議題是提到就是說一個青少年他殺了他的女同學但是呢,他的這個話題或是這個議題裡面呢談到了一個校園的霸凌、網路的世代文化的隔閡、親子教育等等它發生在英國,但是它也有可能發生在全世界\n\n17\n00:06:00,812 --> 00:06:21,485\n這當然是跟衛福部也有相關教育部也有相關國家衛生研究院在2022年調查了國小五年級到高中的三年級八千多位學生進行調查他發現包含性私密的影像外流網路霸凌還有網路遊戲成癮等等都是年輕世代智商危險的因子\n\n18\n00:06:22,225 --> 00:06:48,871\n然後尤其是性私密影像外流跟這個網路霸凌會交織發生是最強的一個智商風險的一個因素那我們在去年底我們在立法院有這個通過了這個學生輔導法的一個修正案那我們當然就增加了這一個校園的專業的輔導人員但是現在問題就來了就是說這個方法是很好或是說做法是很好我們把這一個\n\n19\n00:06:51,331 --> 00:07:10,444\n這個國小跟國中的這一個班級數比如說現在是國小的話呢二十班呢就增加一名的專任輔導教師然後國中呢是十五呢調降到十二等等然後呢現在呢修法之後會增加603名的這個專任輔導的這個教師但是呢我們沒有這麼多的教師\n\n20\n00:07:11,565 --> 00:07:28,528\n在國中預計要到114年國小最快到116年度才能夠聘足專業的輔導教師員額那所以說半門打開了但是到目前為止還找不到符合資格的人那我請教一下院長跟部長這段空窗期那如何去因應咧\n\n21\n00:07:31,486 --> 00:07:44,858\n網路的霸凌或是網路世界這種虛擬的這個問題是國際性通信的問題啦國際通常都現在普遍存在每一個國家裡面所以有一個影片可以看得出來大家的一些國際性的問題\n\n22\n00:07:46,039 --> 00:08:03,510\n那現在我們對於心理輔導這個工作是一直希望年齡層要往下降次數要增加要達到他的效率但所以如果說因為輔導的教師不足教育部應該有相當的計畫跟現在執行的能力要如何來研究把這個\n\n23\n00:08:04,964 --> 00:08:27,365\n輔導的老師師資跟人數跟效率方面都要提升那部長這邊要不要再補充說明容我跟委員做一個可能需要比較長的一個時間報告在這個學輔還沒有通過事實上我們小學老師就有不足輔導老師就有不足但是我們師醫師事實上都有評估而且就我們\n\n24\n00:08:28,479 --> 00:08:54,118\n配合因應學務法所通過的因為是這個輔導人力的一個增加我們事實上是內部有討論怎麼樣有一些更快的包含專業團體的一些補救的一些措施包括施肢的培育包括結合專業教師的一些真人包含我們現在也跟我們包含我們下一學期也今年9月因為所有這些的問題事實上有更多的美國的經驗\n\n25\n00:08:55,278 --> 00:09:09,248\n這個研究的data有來自歐盟的data包含我們衛福部的data我們看到了一個智慧手機短影音所造成的青少年世代的許多的身心的一些負面的影響因為焦慮因為\n\n26\n00:09:10,689 --> 00:09:25,827\n因為右翼因為智商因為自殺等等這些我們事實上是有一個更完整的除了心理輔導老師的一個培訓真人包含導師的一個真人以外我們事實上還有一個更釜底抽薪我們從今年九月\n\n27\n00:09:27,031 --> 00:09:51,154\n全國的22個縣市教育局處長我也都跟他們親自交換意見全面家長學會教師學會全部都會來支持這樣的一個手機集中管理也就是說我們希望有一個更支持性的更健康的一個青少年的一個校園的一個學習環境甚至\n\n28\n00:09:52,114 --> 00:10:10,603\n讓他們一個組結有許多會造成心理負面傷害的這些能夠有一個更完善完成的一個改善包含怎麼樣去引用這個民間的這個力量SELO裡面能夠學校的許多的霸凌包括黑幫種種的許多問題\n\n29\n00:10:11,383 --> 00:10:37,142\n他當然不可能只有校長跟老師我們也希望家長包括社區的力量包括警政的力量我們全面的來做一個系統性的一些來改善部長剛才有提到應該是就是說禁用手機這部分那我提到就是說我們這個專業的輔導教師人我們基本上大概預估以我們現在的策略方案我們大概120大概就都會補齊到哪時候\n\n30\n00:10:39,997 --> 00:10:55,347\n120年那比這個預估的還要再更慢一點本來是國中是預計到114學年國小是預計到116學年跟我們報告這個是在沒有修法之前事實上也都達不到所以就是到120年\n\n31\n00:11:01,650 --> 00:11:29,368\n好那另外就是說剛剛有提到說這個學生自殺的問題就是說自殺已成為6到12歲國小學生第六大的死因然後呢在衛福部的統計在這個2024年的統計過去五年間12到17歲的青少年自殺的死亡人數呢從12.5%上升到18.4%自殺是成為青少年的這個十大死亡原因第二位那其實都有增加了\n\n32\n00:11:31,094 --> 00:11:49,424\n我要問的就是說我們在這個2023年有一個15歲到30歲的一個年輕族群心理健康支持方案然後去年我們增加我們延長到45歲就是變成說是15到45青壯世代心理健康支持方案那民眾每年有三次這個免費智商\n\n33\n00:11:49,844 --> 00:12:11,596\n好,那如果這樣子的話,那有沒有辦法就是說我們既然已經延長到45歲,那有沒有這個機會就是說我們再從15歲往下,向下延伸。因為現在就是有關這個青少年或是國小的孩子們其實在憂鬱這方面,或是說我們剛剛提到的說對於他們網路文化的一些影響,對他們會造成一些影響的話,能不能把這個諮商的這個年紀再往下降。\n\n34\n00:12:12,435 --> 00:12:32,495\n我剛剛委員報告我們年齡層有在下降我覺得我們應該往下去扎根讓更小的小朋友們他們不要受到這種心理上的障礙但是也必須考慮到我們現在針對新的修法之後國小跟國中每20班每12班都增加一名的輔導教師我們也必須在短時間能夠補足適當的時機\n\n35\n00:12:36,538 --> 00:13:00,300\n所以我才說有關這個心理諮商這方面的話能不能就向下延伸我希望能夠向下延伸而且三次並不一定要限定三次有的他比較情節需要的話甚至應該考量他達到一定的效果而不是限定三次因為的確看到有一些個案就是說他們就三次然後三次就結束了非常可惜\n\n36\n00:13:01,220 --> 00:13:21,893\n我是希望說能夠再向下再延伸那次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整那第二個就是說在目前的健保的給付對於兒少心理諮商的這個補助的話那其實是二十幾年來沒有做調整那就是說精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本增加調整那有沒有這個調整的可能性\n\n37\n00:13:22,861 --> 00:13:39,913\n我講一定是必要隨之在必須要調整的因為各方面的環境都在轉變那我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話會減少未來家庭的一個不幸的事件甚至犯罪事件甚至治安事件都可能會減少用這個來看政府的投資絕對是華德來值得的\n\n38\n00:13:42,595 --> 00:14:00,108\n那現在就是說家長他不願意讓小孩去這個兒童心智科就診另外一個隱性的原因就在於說有些保險公司還會跟你講就是說你如果你的小孩去看這個心理醫生的話那可能會影響到未來這個救保保險那個相關的權益的那所以這方面是不是能夠請\n\n39\n00:14:01,048 --> 00:14:23,296\n我們政府跟金管會來澄清就是說兒少的這個保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或是精神整治的影響那我想這方面我們政府如果有一個比較明確的一個宣示的話那也比較不會影響到說家長去帶小孩去做這個心理諮商或是去看這個兒童心智科的一些影響\n\n40\n00:14:24,176 --> 00:14:47,282\n原則性來講我們不希望這些小孩子被有標籤式的貼法無論是他在同儕之間甚至於我剛剛說的整個社會制度都不應該因為他接受這樣子而有不同的待遇所以我認為這個應該請我們相關單位要研究讓他能夠公平化能夠把他納到一個正常的管理範圍裡面來輔導他才是一個國家的正途\n\n41\n00:14:48,206 --> 00:15:13,365\n那教育部有沒有機會把心理健康的評量納入學生定期篩檢的項目裡面我想我們會有關心理的評量我想學校裡邊我們來看怎麼樣來協助青少年包含兒童但是有許多屬於專業的可能還是要跟衛福部來請益\n\n42\n00:15:14,721 --> 00:15:39,171\n好那其實我還有這個很多議題要問但是時間已經到了那所以剛剛比較一些嚴肅的一些問題我再請這個院長跟這個部長就好謝謝李坤誠委員執行謝謝主委院長教育部長貝許昀謝謝接下來我們請丁學忠委員執行委員劉書斌委員請準備\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1928\t9194\t謝謝主席我們請卓院長還有鄭部長麻煩請再請卓院長備詢下一步請備詢李文豪院長好部長好我接續剛剛這個蔡啟昌委員的一個話題就是說我們的運動部在今年的這個八九月會掛牌是不是\n31198\t46528\t我們希望是那個時間那有提到這個運動部長人選我剛聽到這個院長是說這個全新的部長全新的運動部前瞻亮眼那我請問一下那大概是怎麼樣符合什麼樣條件可以來接這個運動部的部長\n47133\t62338\t因為我們在籌設運動部的時候我一直強調這不是一個體育署的升格它是一個全新的運動部它要有全民體育運動它要有運動競技有國際的事務它還要有運動產業還有這個適應的體育等等\n66079\t83814\t多元的方向跟過去的單一的學校或是比賽的運動截然是不同的所以我們需要一個全新的運動部所以我們也要有一個有不同視野的部長人選那這個我們現在正在多方的洽談尋覓當中現在已經有在找這一個適當人選就對了\n85876\t107103\t我們有幾個心裡的想法這樣聽起來好像不是從我們原有的內閣裡面去找出來的好像是去外面找的是不是我強調一開始很多行政作業是必須要銜接的這個銜接的工作非常繁複我們也必須要有相當多的行政上鮮熟的公務人員來做一些銜接的工作這倒是必要的\n107443\t131718\t好 OK 那我再請教一下這個院長這個我們現在有通過一個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別條例然後預算也是增加到四千一百億那其中呢 在照顧民生這方面呢我們編列了一千六百七十億其中兩百億呢是給這個強化高等教育人才的培育那不過我聽到很多的政業黨的委員覺得說那這一筆預算或是說這個計畫本來就有了\n133759\t155287\t他們認為說是不是在灌水啦那我請教一下院長或是部長那能不能再把這個計畫再說清楚一點為什麼在這個時候要把這個200億把它加進去好 謝謝委員雖然我們這是因應國際情勢的強化安全任性的特別條例不全然單只是針對美國關稅貿易秩序的調整但是不可否認美國關稅貿易秩序調整\n157289\t167170\t會造成我們國內各行各業的一些衝擊在產業現場來講更需要產學的合作也更需要引入延攬\n168203\t191199\t更多的外國優秀的人才進到國家來去幫助產業幫助學術研究甚至很多學校他在未來充實學校設備的情況要購買新的設備也可能會因應到一些關稅的衝擊我們也必須對他做實質上的一些支持所以他不全然相關但是他一定有他相關的地方\n191559\t217267\t所以我認為這是整套作業下來的那這個如果條例通過之後這個相關的一些施行的細則出來之後會比較清楚啦因為我看那個條例條例當然基本上特別條例不會寫得太細那我是希望說這部分的話那請教一下部長那大概如果條例通過之後多久相關的這一個施行的這個細則或是辦法會出來讓大家會更了解說我們這200億要怎麼去做\n219535\t241073\t謝謝委員跟委員報告其實在這一個事實上在現場還沒有宣布之前事實上我們教育部都已經有在內部作業而且我在整個高等教育我們因應這一個人才的需求跟產業所帶來衝擊裡邊包含這一個許多的Science跟Inc.020這個所謂的理工科的老師在\n241954\t262080\t怎麼樣去能夠強化許多延攬因為現在如果委員我相信在各大也聽到很多的一個聲音大學端幾乎在理學院、工學院已經聘不到老師因為都往業界跑了都往業界跑但特別在關稅以後所造成的衝擊我們相信他可能會有一些\n263101\t278616\t對高等教育人才培育上的一個再把他們拉回來所以我們現在現場看起來很特別只是這個產學怎麼樣去有一個更緊密的合作我們在人才培育有一些更新的創新模式能夠為台灣培養人才也能夠為產業所用這裡邊的R&D應該是\n282119\t309421\t產學要更緊密的合作讓這裡邊的許多的一些人才元朗包含這一個留任的獎金我們怎麼樣有一些更開拓性的一些對未來的想像事實上我們教育部也已經都有充分的在討論而且那個辦法會隨著這一個我們通過以後我們會立即提出那應該是蠻短時間就可以提出來了嗎通常我們在條例通過之後就會\n311119\t332177\t詳細的詳列一個特別預算裡面各個單項就會像一個預算書一樣很詳盡的向大院報告所以那時候股價先出來了肉就會跟著出來了那我現在要講一個比較嚴肅的話題就是說現在在Netflix上面有一個英國的戲劇叫做《混沌少年史》不曉得院長跟部長有沒有看過或是聽過\n334582\t358871\t好,沒有關係有時間,因為最近大家比較忙那這個四個小時而已啦那其實它這個裡面的議題是提到就是說一個青少年他殺了他的女同學但是呢,他的這個話題或是這個議題裡面呢談到了一個校園的霸凌、網路的世代文化的隔閡、親子教育等等它發生在英國,但是它也有可能發生在全世界\n360812\t381485\t這當然是跟衛福部也有相關 教育部也有相關國家衛生研究院在2022年調查了國小五年級到高中的三年級八千多位學生進行調查他發現包含性私密的影像外流 網路霸凌還有網路遊戲成癮等等都是年輕世代智商危險的因子\n382225\t408871\t然後尤其是性私密影像外流跟這個網路霸凌會交織發生是最強的一個智商風險的一個因素那我們在去年底我們在立法院有這個通過了這個學生輔導法的一個修正案那我們當然就增加了這一個校園的專業的輔導人員但是現在問題就來了就是說這個方法是很好或是說做法是很好我們把這一個\n411331\t430444\t這個國小跟國中的這一個班級數比如說現在是國小的話呢二十班呢就增加一名的專任輔導教師然後國中呢是十五呢調降到十二等等然後呢現在呢修法之後會增加603名的這個專任輔導的這個教師但是呢我們沒有這麼多的教師\n431565\t448528\t在國中預計要到114年 國小最快到116年度才能夠聘足專業的輔導教師員額那所以說 半門打開了但是到目前為止還找不到符合資格的人那我請教一下院長跟部長這段空窗期那如何去因應咧\n451486\t464858\t網路的霸凌或是網路世界這種虛擬的這個問題是國際性通信的問題啦國際通常都現在普遍存在每一個國家裡面所以有一個影片可以看得出來大家的一些國際性的問題\n466039\t483510\t那現在我們對於心理輔導這個工作是一直希望年齡層要往下降次數要增加要達到他的效率但所以如果說因為輔導的教師不足教育部應該有相當的計畫跟現在執行的能力要如何來研究把這個\n484964\t507365\t輔導的老師師資跟人數跟效率方面都要提升那部長這邊要不要再補充說明容我跟委員做一個可能需要比較長的一個時間報告在這個學輔還沒有通過事實上我們小學老師就有不足輔導老師就有不足但是我們師醫師事實上都有評估而且就我們\n508479\t534118\t配合因應學務法所通過的因為是這個輔導人力的一個增加我們事實上是內部有討論怎麼樣有一些更快的包含專業團體的一些補救的一些措施包括施肢的培育包括結合專業教師的一些真人包含我們現在也跟我們包含我們下一學期也今年9月因為所有這些的問題事實上有更多的美國的經驗\n535278\t549248\t這個研究的data有來自歐盟的data包含我們衛福部的data我們看到了一個智慧手機短影音所造成的青少年世代的許多的身心的一些負面的影響因為焦慮因為\n550689\t565827\t因為右翼 因為智商 因為自殺等等這些我們事實上是有一個更完整的除了心理輔導老師的一個培訓真人包含導師的一個真人以外我們事實上還有一個更釜底抽薪我們從今年九月\n567031\t591154\t全國的22個縣市教育局處長我也都跟他們親自交換意見全面家長學會教師學會全部都會來支持這樣的一個手機集中管理也就是說我們希望有一個更支持性的更健康的一個青少年的一個校園的一個學習環境甚至\n592114\t610603\t讓他們一個組結有許多會造成心理負面傷害的這些能夠有一個更完善完成的一個改善包含怎麼樣去引用這個民間的這個力量SELO裡面能夠學校的許多的霸凌包括黑幫種種的許多問題\n611383\t637142\t他當然不可能只有校長跟老師我們也希望家長包括社區的力量包括警政的力量我們全面的來做一個系統性的一些來改善部長剛才有提到應該是就是說禁用手機這部分那我提到就是說我們這個專業的輔導教師人我們基本上大概預估以我們現在的策略方案我們大概120大概就都會補齊到哪時候\n639997\t655347\t120年那比這個預估的還要再更慢一點本來是國中是預計到114學年國小是預計到116學年跟我們報告這個是在沒有修法之前事實上也都達不到所以就是到120年\n661650\t689368\t好 那另外就是說剛剛有提到說這個學生自殺的問題就是說自殺已成為6到12歲國小學生第六大的死因然後呢 在衛福部的統計在這個2024年的統計過去五年間12到17歲的青少年自殺的死亡人數呢從12.5%上升到18.4%自殺是成為青少年的這個十大死亡原因第二位那其實都有增加了\n691094\t709424\t我要問的就是說我們在這個2023年有一個15歲到30歲的一個年輕族群心理健康支持方案然後去年我們增加我們延長到45歲就是變成說是15到45青壯世代心理健康支持方案那民眾每年有三次這個免費智商\n709844\t731596\t好,那如果這樣子的話,那有沒有辦法就是說我們既然已經延長到45歲,那有沒有這個機會就是說我們再從15歲往下,向下延伸。因為現在就是有關這個青少年或是國小的孩子們其實在憂鬱這方面,或是說我們剛剛提到的說對於他們網路文化的一些影響,對他們會造成一些影響的話,能不能把這個諮商的這個年紀再往下降。\n732435\t752495\t我剛剛委員報告我們年齡層有在下降我覺得我們應該往下去扎根讓更小的小朋友們他們不要受到這種心理上的障礙但是也必須考慮到我們現在針對新的修法之後國小跟國中每20班每12班都增加一名的輔導教師我們也必須在短時間能夠補足適當的時機\n756538\t780300\t所以我才說有關這個心理諮商這方面的話能不能就向下延伸我希望能夠向下延伸而且三次並不一定要限定三次有的他比較情節需要的話甚至應該考量他達到一定的效果而不是限定三次因為的確看到有一些個案就是說他們就三次然後三次就結束了非常可惜\n781220\t801893\t我是希望說能夠再向下再延伸那次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整那第二個就是說在目前的健保的給付對於兒少心理諮商的這個補助的話那其實是二十幾年來沒有做調整那就是說精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本增加調整那有沒有這個調整的可能性\n802861\t819913\t我講一定是必要隨之在必須要調整的因為各方面的環境都在轉變那我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話會減少未來家庭的一個不幸的事件甚至犯罪事件甚至治安事件都可能會減少用這個來看政府的投資絕對是華德來值得的\n822595\t840108\t那現在就是說家長他不願意讓小孩去這個兒童心智科就診另外一個隱性的原因就在於說有些保險公司還會跟你講就是說你如果你的小孩去看這個心理醫生的話那可能會影響到未來這個救保保險那個相關的權益的那所以這方面是不是能夠請\n841048\t863296\t我們政府跟金管會來澄清就是說兒少的這個保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或是精神整治的影響那我想這方面我們政府如果有一個比較明確的一個宣示的話那也比較不會影響到說家長去帶小孩去做這個心理諮商或是去看這個兒童心智科的一些影響\n864176\t887282\t原則性來講我們不希望這些小孩子被有標籤式的貼法無論是他在同儕之間甚至於我剛剛說的整個社會制度都不應該因為他接受這樣子而有不同的待遇所以我認為這個應該請我們相關單位要研究讓他能夠公平化能夠把他納到一個正常的管理範圍裡面來輔導他才是一個國家的正途\n888206\t913365\t那教育部有沒有機會把心理健康的評量納入學生定期篩檢的項目裡面我想我們會有關心理的評量我想學校裡邊我們來看怎麼樣來協助青少年包含兒童但是有許多屬於專業的可能還是要跟衛福部來請益\n914721\t939171\t好那其實我還有這個很多議題要問但是時間已經到了那所以剛剛比較一些嚴肅的一些問題我再請這個院長跟這個部長就好謝謝李坤誠委員執行謝謝主委院長教育部長貝許昀謝謝接下來我們請丁學忠委員執行委員劉書斌委員請準備\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請卓院長還有鄭部長麻煩請再請卓院長備詢下一步請備詢李文豪院長好部長好我接續剛剛這個蔡啟昌委員的一個話題就是說我們的運動部在今年的這個八九月會掛牌是不是\n我們希望是那個時間那有提到這個運動部長人選我剛聽到這個院長是說這個全新的部長全新的運動部前瞻亮眼那我請問一下那大概是怎麼樣符合什麼樣條件可以來接這個運動部的部長\n因為我們在籌設運動部的時候我一直強調這不是一個體育署的升格它是一個全新的運動部它要有全民體育運動它要有運動競技有國際的事務它還要有運動產業還有這個適應的體育等等\n多元的方向跟過去的單一的學校或是比賽的運動截然是不同的所以我們需要一個全新的運動部所以我們也要有一個有不同視野的部長人選那這個我們現在正在多方的洽談尋覓當中現在已經有在找這一個適當人選就對了\n我們有幾個心裡的想法這樣聽起來好像不是從我們原有的內閣裡面去找出來的好像是去外面找的是不是我強調一開始很多行政作業是必須要銜接的這個銜接的工作非常繁複我們也必須要有相當多的行政上鮮熟的公務人員來做一些銜接的工作這倒是必要的\n好 OK 那我再請教一下這個院長這個我們現在有通過一個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別條例然後預算也是增加到四千一百億那其中呢 在照顧民生這方面呢我們編列了一千六百七十億其中兩百億呢是給這個強化高等教育人才的培育那不過我聽到很多的政業黨的委員覺得說那這一筆預算或是說這個計畫本來就有了\n他們認為說是不是在灌水啦那我請教一下院長或是部長那能不能再把這個計畫再說清楚一點為什麼在這個時候要把這個200億把它加進去好 謝謝委員雖然我們這是因應國際情勢的強化安全任性的特別條例不全然單只是針對美國關稅貿易秩序的調整但是不可否認美國關稅貿易秩序調整\n會造成我們國內各行各業的一些衝擊在產業現場來講更需要產學的合作也更需要引入延攬\n更多的外國優秀的人才進到國家來去幫助產業幫助學術研究甚至很多學校他在未來充實學校設備的情況要購買新的設備也可能會因應到一些關稅的衝擊我們也必須對他做實質上的一些支持所以他不全然相關但是他一定有他相關的地方\n所以我認為這是整套作業下來的那這個如果條例通過之後這個相關的一些施行的細則出來之後會比較清楚啦因為我看那個條例條例當然基本上特別條例不會寫得太細那我是希望說這部分的話那請教一下部長那大概如果條例通過之後多久相關的這一個施行的這個細則或是辦法會出來讓大家會更了解說我們這200億要怎麼去做\n謝謝委員跟委員報告其實在這一個事實上在現場還沒有宣布之前事實上我們教育部都已經有在內部作業而且我在整個高等教育我們因應這一個人才的需求跟產業所帶來衝擊裡邊包含這一個許多的Science跟Inc.020這個所謂的理工科的老師在\n怎麼樣去能夠強化許多延攬因為現在如果委員我相信在各大也聽到很多的一個聲音大學端幾乎在理學院、工學院已經聘不到老師因為都往業界跑了都往業界跑但特別在關稅以後所造成的衝擊我們相信他可能會有一些\n對高等教育人才培育上的一個再把他們拉回來所以我們現在現場看起來很特別只是這個產學怎麼樣去有一個更緊密的合作我們在人才培育有一些更新的創新模式能夠為台灣培養人才也能夠為產業所用這裡邊的R&D應該是\n產學要更緊密的合作讓這裡邊的許多的一些人才元朗包含這一個留任的獎金我們怎麼樣有一些更開拓性的一些對未來的想像事實上我們教育部也已經都有充分的在討論而且那個辦法會隨著這一個我們通過以後我們會立即提出那應該是蠻短時間就可以提出來了嗎通常我們在條例通過之後就會\n詳細的詳列一個特別預算裡面各個單項就會像一個預算書一樣很詳盡的向大院報告所以那時候股價先出來了肉就會跟著出來了那我現在要講一個比較嚴肅的話題就是說現在在Netflix上面有一個英國的戲劇叫做《混沌少年史》不曉得院長跟部長有沒有看過或是聽過\n好,沒有關係有時間,因為最近大家比較忙那這個四個小時而已啦那其實它這個裡面的議題是提到就是說一個青少年他殺了他的女同學但是呢,他的這個話題或是這個議題裡面呢談到了一個校園的霸凌、網路的世代文化的隔閡、親子教育等等它發生在英國,但是它也有可能發生在全世界\n這當然是跟衛福部也有相關 教育部也有相關國家衛生研究院在2022年調查了國小五年級到高中的三年級八千多位學生進行調查他發現包含性私密的影像外流 網路霸凌還有網路遊戲成癮等等都是年輕世代智商危險的因子\n然後尤其是性私密影像外流跟這個網路霸凌會交織發生是最強的一個智商風險的一個因素那我們在去年底我們在立法院有這個通過了這個學生輔導法的一個修正案那我們當然就增加了這一個校園的專業的輔導人員但是現在問題就來了就是說這個方法是很好或是說做法是很好我們把這一個\n這個國小跟國中的這一個班級數比如說現在是國小的話呢二十班呢就增加一名的專任輔導教師然後國中呢是十五呢調降到十二等等然後呢現在呢修法之後會增加603名的這個專任輔導的這個教師但是呢我們沒有這麼多的教師\n在國中預計要到114年 國小最快到116年度才能夠聘足專業的輔導教師員額那所以說 半門打開了但是到目前為止還找不到符合資格的人那我請教一下院長跟部長這段空窗期那如何去因應咧\n網路的霸凌或是網路世界這種虛擬的這個問題是國際性通信的問題啦國際通常都現在普遍存在每一個國家裡面所以有一個影片可以看得出來大家的一些國際性的問題\n那現在我們對於心理輔導這個工作是一直希望年齡層要往下降次數要增加要達到他的效率但所以如果說因為輔導的教師不足教育部應該有相當的計畫跟現在執行的能力要如何來研究把這個\n輔導的老師師資跟人數跟效率方面都要提升那部長這邊要不要再補充說明容我跟委員做一個可能需要比較長的一個時間報告在這個學輔還沒有通過事實上我們小學老師就有不足輔導老師就有不足但是我們師醫師事實上都有評估而且就我們\n配合因應學務法所通過的因為是這個輔導人力的一個增加我們事實上是內部有討論怎麼樣有一些更快的包含專業團體的一些補救的一些措施包括施肢的培育包括結合專業教師的一些真人包含我們現在也跟我們包含我們下一學期也今年9月因為所有這些的問題事實上有更多的美國的經驗\n這個研究的data有來自歐盟的data包含我們衛福部的data我們看到了一個智慧手機短影音所造成的青少年世代的許多的身心的一些負面的影響因為焦慮因為\n因為右翼 因為智商 因為自殺等等這些我們事實上是有一個更完整的除了心理輔導老師的一個培訓真人包含導師的一個真人以外我們事實上還有一個更釜底抽薪我們從今年九月\n全國的22個縣市教育局處長我也都跟他們親自交換意見全面家長學會教師學會全部都會來支持這樣的一個手機集中管理也就是說我們希望有一個更支持性的更健康的一個青少年的一個校園的一個學習環境甚至\n讓他們一個組結有許多會造成心理負面傷害的這些能夠有一個更完善完成的一個改善包含怎麼樣去引用這個民間的這個力量SELO裡面能夠學校的許多的霸凌包括黑幫種種的許多問題\n他當然不可能只有校長跟老師我們也希望家長包括社區的力量包括警政的力量我們全面的來做一個系統性的一些來改善部長剛才有提到應該是就是說禁用手機這部分那我提到就是說我們這個專業的輔導教師人我們基本上大概預估以我們現在的策略方案我們大概120大概就都會補齊到哪時候\n120年那比這個預估的還要再更慢一點本來是國中是預計到114學年國小是預計到116學年跟我們報告這個是在沒有修法之前事實上也都達不到所以就是到120年\n好 那另外就是說剛剛有提到說這個學生自殺的問題就是說自殺已成為6到12歲國小學生第六大的死因然後呢 在衛福部的統計在這個2024年的統計過去五年間12到17歲的青少年自殺的死亡人數呢從12.5%上升到18.4%自殺是成為青少年的這個十大死亡原因第二位那其實都有增加了\n我要問的就是說我們在這個2023年有一個15歲到30歲的一個年輕族群心理健康支持方案然後去年我們增加我們延長到45歲就是變成說是15到45青壯世代心理健康支持方案那民眾每年有三次這個免費智商\n好,那如果這樣子的話,那有沒有辦法就是說我們既然已經延長到45歲,那有沒有這個機會就是說我們再從15歲往下,向下延伸。因為現在就是有關這個青少年或是國小的孩子們其實在憂鬱這方面,或是說我們剛剛提到的說對於他們網路文化的一些影響,對他們會造成一些影響的話,能不能把這個諮商的這個年紀再往下降。\n我剛剛委員報告我們年齡層有在下降我覺得我們應該往下去扎根讓更小的小朋友們他們不要受到這種心理上的障礙但是也必須考慮到我們現在針對新的修法之後國小跟國中每20班每12班都增加一名的輔導教師我們也必須在短時間能夠補足適當的時機\n所以我才說有關這個心理諮商這方面的話能不能就向下延伸我希望能夠向下延伸而且三次並不一定要限定三次有的他比較情節需要的話甚至應該考量他達到一定的效果而不是限定三次因為的確看到有一些個案就是說他們就三次然後三次就結束了非常可惜\n我是希望說能夠再向下再延伸那次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整那第二個就是說在目前的健保的給付對於兒少心理諮商的這個補助的話那其實是二十幾年來沒有做調整那就是說精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本增加調整那有沒有這個調整的可能性\n我講一定是必要隨之在必須要調整的因為各方面的環境都在轉變那我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話會減少未來家庭的一個不幸的事件甚至犯罪事件甚至治安事件都可能會減少用這個來看政府的投資絕對是華德來值得的\n那現在就是說家長他不願意讓小孩去這個兒童心智科就診另外一個隱性的原因就在於說有些保險公司還會跟你講就是說你如果你的小孩去看這個心理醫生的話那可能會影響到未來這個救保保險那個相關的權益的那所以這方面是不是能夠請\n我們政府跟金管會來澄清就是說兒少的這個保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或是精神整治的影響那我想這方面我們政府如果有一個比較明確的一個宣示的話那也比較不會影響到說家長去帶小孩去做這個心理諮商或是去看這個兒童心智科的一些影響\n原則性來講我們不希望這些小孩子被有標籤式的貼法無論是他在同儕之間甚至於我剛剛說的整個社會制度都不應該因為他接受這樣子而有不同的待遇所以我認為這個應該請我們相關單位要研究讓他能夠公平化能夠把他納到一個正常的管理範圍裡面來輔導他才是一個國家的正途\n那教育部有沒有機會把心理健康的評量納入學生定期篩檢的項目裡面我想我們會有關心理的評量我想學校裡邊我們來看怎麼樣來協助青少年包含兒童但是有許多屬於專業的可能還是要跟衛福部來請益\n好那其實我還有這個很多議題要問但是時間已經到了那所以剛剛比較一些嚴肅的一些問題我再請這個院長跟這個部長就好謝謝李坤誠委員執行謝謝主委院長教育部長貝許昀謝謝接下來我們請丁學忠委員執行委員劉書斌委員請準備\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.928 --> 00:09.194\n謝謝主席我們請卓院長還有鄭部長麻煩請再請卓院長備詢下一步請備詢李文豪院長好部長好我接續剛剛這個蔡啟昌委員的一個話題就是說我們的運動部在今年的這個八九月會掛牌是不是\n\n00:31.198 --> 00:46.528\n我們希望是那個時間那有提到這個運動部長人選我剛聽到這個院長是說這個全新的部長全新的運動部前瞻亮眼那我請問一下那大概是怎麼樣符合什麼樣條件可以來接這個運動部的部長\n\n00:47.133 --> 01:02.338\n因為我們在籌設運動部的時候我一直強調這不是一個體育署的升格它是一個全新的運動部它要有全民體育運動它要有運動競技有國際的事務它還要有運動產業還有這個適應的體育等等\n\n01:06.079 --> 01:23.814\n多元的方向跟過去的單一的學校或是比賽的運動截然是不同的所以我們需要一個全新的運動部所以我們也要有一個有不同視野的部長人選那這個我們現在正在多方的洽談尋覓當中現在已經有在找這一個適當人選就對了\n\n01:25.876 --> 01:47.103\n我們有幾個心裡的想法這樣聽起來好像不是從我們原有的內閣裡面去找出來的好像是去外面找的是不是我強調一開始很多行政作業是必須要銜接的這個銜接的工作非常繁複我們也必須要有相當多的行政上鮮熟的公務人員來做一些銜接的工作這倒是必要的\n\n01:47.443 --> 02:11.718\n好OK那我再請教一下這個院長這個我們現在有通過一個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別條例然後預算也是增加到四千一百億那其中呢在照顧民生這方面呢我們編列了一千六百七十億其中兩百億呢是給這個強化高等教育人才的培育那不過我聽到很多的政業黨的委員覺得說那這一筆預算或是說這個計畫本來就有了\n\n02:13.759 --> 02:35.287\n他們認為說是不是在灌水啦那我請教一下院長或是部長那能不能再把這個計畫再說清楚一點為什麼在這個時候要把這個200億把它加進去好謝謝委員雖然我們這是因應國際情勢的強化安全任性的特別條例不全然單只是針對美國關稅貿易秩序的調整但是不可否認美國關稅貿易秩序調整\n\n02:37.289 --> 02:47.170\n會造成我們國內各行各業的一些衝擊在產業現場來講更需要產學的合作也更需要引入延攬\n\n02:48.203 --> 03:11.199\n更多的外國優秀的人才進到國家來去幫助產業幫助學術研究甚至很多學校他在未來充實學校設備的情況要購買新的設備也可能會因應到一些關稅的衝擊我們也必須對他做實質上的一些支持所以他不全然相關但是他一定有他相關的地方\n\n03:11.559 --> 03:37.267\n所以我認為這是整套作業下來的那這個如果條例通過之後這個相關的一些施行的細則出來之後會比較清楚啦因為我看那個條例條例當然基本上特別條例不會寫得太細那我是希望說這部分的話那請教一下部長那大概如果條例通過之後多久相關的這一個施行的這個細則或是辦法會出來讓大家會更了解說我們這200億要怎麼去做\n\n03:39.535 --> 04:01.073\n謝謝委員跟委員報告其實在這一個事實上在現場還沒有宣布之前事實上我們教育部都已經有在內部作業而且我在整個高等教育我們因應這一個人才的需求跟產業所帶來衝擊裡邊包含這一個許多的Science跟Inc.020這個所謂的理工科的老師在\n\n04:01.954 --> 04:22.080\n怎麼樣去能夠強化許多延攬因為現在如果委員我相信在各大也聽到很多的一個聲音大學端幾乎在理學院、工學院已經聘不到老師因為都往業界跑了都往業界跑但特別在關稅以後所造成的衝擊我們相信他可能會有一些\n\n04:23.101 --> 04:38.616\n對高等教育人才培育上的一個再把他們拉回來所以我們現在現場看起來很特別只是這個產學怎麼樣去有一個更緊密的合作我們在人才培育有一些更新的創新模式能夠為台灣培養人才也能夠為產業所用這裡邊的R&D應該是\n\n04:42.119 --> 05:09.421\n產學要更緊密的合作讓這裡邊的許多的一些人才元朗包含這一個留任的獎金我們怎麼樣有一些更開拓性的一些對未來的想像事實上我們教育部也已經都有充分的在討論而且那個辦法會隨著這一個我們通過以後我們會立即提出那應該是蠻短時間就可以提出來了嗎通常我們在條例通過之後就會\n\n05:11.119 --> 05:32.177\n詳細的詳列一個特別預算裡面各個單項就會像一個預算書一樣很詳盡的向大院報告所以那時候股價先出來了肉就會跟著出來了那我現在要講一個比較嚴肅的話題就是說現在在Netflix上面有一個英國的戲劇叫做《混沌少年史》不曉得院長跟部長有沒有看過或是聽過\n\n05:34.582 --> 05:58.871\n好,沒有關係有時間,因為最近大家比較忙那這個四個小時而已啦那其實它這個裡面的議題是提到就是說一個青少年他殺了他的女同學但是呢,他的這個話題或是這個議題裡面呢談到了一個校園的霸凌、網路的世代文化的隔閡、親子教育等等它發生在英國,但是它也有可能發生在全世界\n\n06:00.812 --> 06:21.485\n這當然是跟衛福部也有相關教育部也有相關國家衛生研究院在2022年調查了國小五年級到高中的三年級八千多位學生進行調查他發現包含性私密的影像外流網路霸凌還有網路遊戲成癮等等都是年輕世代智商危險的因子\n\n06:22.225 --> 06:48.871\n然後尤其是性私密影像外流跟這個網路霸凌會交織發生是最強的一個智商風險的一個因素那我們在去年底我們在立法院有這個通過了這個學生輔導法的一個修正案那我們當然就增加了這一個校園的專業的輔導人員但是現在問題就來了就是說這個方法是很好或是說做法是很好我們把這一個\n\n06:51.331 --> 07:10.444\n這個國小跟國中的這一個班級數比如說現在是國小的話呢二十班呢就增加一名的專任輔導教師然後國中呢是十五呢調降到十二等等然後呢現在呢修法之後會增加603名的這個專任輔導的這個教師但是呢我們沒有這麼多的教師\n\n07:11.565 --> 07:28.528\n在國中預計要到114年國小最快到116年度才能夠聘足專業的輔導教師員額那所以說半門打開了但是到目前為止還找不到符合資格的人那我請教一下院長跟部長這段空窗期那如何去因應咧\n\n07:31.486 --> 07:44.858\n網路的霸凌或是網路世界這種虛擬的這個問題是國際性通信的問題啦國際通常都現在普遍存在每一個國家裡面所以有一個影片可以看得出來大家的一些國際性的問題\n\n07:46.039 --> 08:03.510\n那現在我們對於心理輔導這個工作是一直希望年齡層要往下降次數要增加要達到他的效率但所以如果說因為輔導的教師不足教育部應該有相當的計畫跟現在執行的能力要如何來研究把這個\n\n08:04.964 --> 08:27.365\n輔導的老師師資跟人數跟效率方面都要提升那部長這邊要不要再補充說明容我跟委員做一個可能需要比較長的一個時間報告在這個學輔還沒有通過事實上我們小學老師就有不足輔導老師就有不足但是我們師醫師事實上都有評估而且就我們\n\n08:28.479 --> 08:54.118\n配合因應學務法所通過的因為是這個輔導人力的一個增加我們事實上是內部有討論怎麼樣有一些更快的包含專業團體的一些補救的一些措施包括施肢的培育包括結合專業教師的一些真人包含我們現在也跟我們包含我們下一學期也今年9月因為所有這些的問題事實上有更多的美國的經驗\n\n08:55.278 --> 09:09.248\n這個研究的data有來自歐盟的data包含我們衛福部的data我們看到了一個智慧手機短影音所造成的青少年世代的許多的身心的一些負面的影響因為焦慮因為\n\n09:10.689 --> 09:25.827\n因為右翼因為智商因為自殺等等這些我們事實上是有一個更完整的除了心理輔導老師的一個培訓真人包含導師的一個真人以外我們事實上還有一個更釜底抽薪我們從今年九月\n\n09:27.031 --> 09:51.154\n全國的22個縣市教育局處長我也都跟他們親自交換意見全面家長學會教師學會全部都會來支持這樣的一個手機集中管理也就是說我們希望有一個更支持性的更健康的一個青少年的一個校園的一個學習環境甚至\n\n09:52.114 --> 10:10.603\n讓他們一個組結有許多會造成心理負面傷害的這些能夠有一個更完善完成的一個改善包含怎麼樣去引用這個民間的這個力量SELO裡面能夠學校的許多的霸凌包括黑幫種種的許多問題\n\n10:11.383 --> 10:37.142\n他當然不可能只有校長跟老師我們也希望家長包括社區的力量包括警政的力量我們全面的來做一個系統性的一些來改善部長剛才有提到應該是就是說禁用手機這部分那我提到就是說我們這個專業的輔導教師人我們基本上大概預估以我們現在的策略方案我們大概120大概就都會補齊到哪時候\n\n10:39.997 --> 10:55.347\n120年那比這個預估的還要再更慢一點本來是國中是預計到114學年國小是預計到116學年跟我們報告這個是在沒有修法之前事實上也都達不到所以就是到120年\n\n11:01.650 --> 11:29.368\n好那另外就是說剛剛有提到說這個學生自殺的問題就是說自殺已成為6到12歲國小學生第六大的死因然後呢在衛福部的統計在這個2024年的統計過去五年間12到17歲的青少年自殺的死亡人數呢從12.5%上升到18.4%自殺是成為青少年的這個十大死亡原因第二位那其實都有增加了\n\n11:31.094 --> 11:49.424\n我要問的就是說我們在這個2023年有一個15歲到30歲的一個年輕族群心理健康支持方案然後去年我們增加我們延長到45歲就是變成說是15到45青壯世代心理健康支持方案那民眾每年有三次這個免費智商\n\n11:49.844 --> 12:11.596\n好,那如果這樣子的話,那有沒有辦法就是說我們既然已經延長到45歲,那有沒有這個機會就是說我們再從15歲往下,向下延伸。因為現在就是有關這個青少年或是國小的孩子們其實在憂鬱這方面,或是說我們剛剛提到的說對於他們網路文化的一些影響,對他們會造成一些影響的話,能不能把這個諮商的這個年紀再往下降。\n\n12:12.435 --> 12:32.495\n我剛剛委員報告我們年齡層有在下降我覺得我們應該往下去扎根讓更小的小朋友們他們不要受到這種心理上的障礙但是也必須考慮到我們現在針對新的修法之後國小跟國中每20班每12班都增加一名的輔導教師我們也必須在短時間能夠補足適當的時機\n\n12:36.538 --> 13:00.300\n所以我才說有關這個心理諮商這方面的話能不能就向下延伸我希望能夠向下延伸而且三次並不一定要限定三次有的他比較情節需要的話甚至應該考量他達到一定的效果而不是限定三次因為的確看到有一些個案就是說他們就三次然後三次就結束了非常可惜\n\n13:01.220 --> 13:21.893\n我是希望說能夠再向下再延伸那次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整那第二個就是說在目前的健保的給付對於兒少心理諮商的這個補助的話那其實是二十幾年來沒有做調整那就是說精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本增加調整那有沒有這個調整的可能性\n\n13:22.861 --> 13:39.913\n我講一定是必要隨之在必須要調整的因為各方面的環境都在轉變那我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話會減少未來家庭的一個不幸的事件甚至犯罪事件甚至治安事件都可能會減少用這個來看政府的投資絕對是華德來值得的\n\n13:42.595 --> 14:00.108\n那現在就是說家長他不願意讓小孩去這個兒童心智科就診另外一個隱性的原因就在於說有些保險公司還會跟你講就是說你如果你的小孩去看這個心理醫生的話那可能會影響到未來這個救保保險那個相關的權益的那所以這方面是不是能夠請\n\n14:01.048 --> 14:23.296\n我們政府跟金管會來澄清就是說兒少的這個保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或是精神整治的影響那我想這方面我們政府如果有一個比較明確的一個宣示的話那也比較不會影響到說家長去帶小孩去做這個心理諮商或是去看這個兒童心智科的一些影響\n\n14:24.176 --> 14:47.282\n原則性來講我們不希望這些小孩子被有標籤式的貼法無論是他在同儕之間甚至於我剛剛說的整個社會制度都不應該因為他接受這樣子而有不同的待遇所以我認為這個應該請我們相關單位要研究讓他能夠公平化能夠把他納到一個正常的管理範圍裡面來輔導他才是一個國家的正途\n\n14:48.206 --> 15:13.365\n那教育部有沒有機會把心理健康的評量納入學生定期篩檢的項目裡面我想我們會有關心理的評量我想學校裡邊我們來看怎麼樣來協助青少年包含兒童但是有許多屬於專業的可能還是要跟衛福部來請益\n\n15:14.721 --> 15:39.171\n好那其實我還有這個很多議題要問但是時間已經到了那所以剛剛比較一些嚴肅的一些問題我再請這個院長跟這個部長就好謝謝李坤誠委員執行謝謝主委院長教育部長貝許昀謝謝接下來我們請丁學忠委員執行委員劉書斌委員請準備\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.928,"end":9.194,"text":"謝謝主席我們請卓院長還有鄭部長麻煩請再請卓院長備詢下一步請備詢李文豪院長好部長好我接續剛剛這個蔡啟昌委員的一個話題就是說我們的運動部在今年的這個八九月會掛牌是不是"},{"start":31.198,"end":46.528,"text":"我們希望是那個時間那有提到這個運動部長人選我剛聽到這個院長是說這個全新的部長全新的運動部前瞻亮眼那我請問一下那大概是怎麼樣符合什麼樣條件可以來接這個運動部的部長"},{"start":47.133,"end":62.338,"text":"因為我們在籌設運動部的時候我一直強調這不是一個體育署的升格它是一個全新的運動部它要有全民體育運動它要有運動競技有國際的事務它還要有運動產業還有這個適應的體育等等"},{"start":66.079,"end":83.814,"text":"多元的方向跟過去的單一的學校或是比賽的運動截然是不同的所以我們需要一個全新的運動部所以我們也要有一個有不同視野的部長人選那這個我們現在正在多方的洽談尋覓當中現在已經有在找這一個適當人選就對了"},{"start":85.876,"end":107.103,"text":"我們有幾個心裡的想法這樣聽起來好像不是從我們原有的內閣裡面去找出來的好像是去外面找的是不是我強調一開始很多行政作業是必須要銜接的這個銜接的工作非常繁複我們也必須要有相當多的行政上鮮熟的公務人員來做一些銜接的工作這倒是必要的"},{"start":107.443,"end":131.718,"text":"好 OK 那我再請教一下這個院長這個我們現在有通過一個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別條例然後預算也是增加到四千一百億那其中呢 在照顧民生這方面呢我們編列了一千六百七十億其中兩百億呢是給這個強化高等教育人才的培育那不過我聽到很多的政業黨的委員覺得說那這一筆預算或是說這個計畫本來就有了"},{"start":133.759,"end":155.287,"text":"他們認為說是不是在灌水啦那我請教一下院長或是部長那能不能再把這個計畫再說清楚一點為什麼在這個時候要把這個200億把它加進去好 謝謝委員雖然我們這是因應國際情勢的強化安全任性的特別條例不全然單只是針對美國關稅貿易秩序的調整但是不可否認美國關稅貿易秩序調整"},{"start":157.289,"end":167.17,"text":"會造成我們國內各行各業的一些衝擊在產業現場來講更需要產學的合作也更需要引入延攬"},{"start":168.203,"end":191.199,"text":"更多的外國優秀的人才進到國家來去幫助產業幫助學術研究甚至很多學校他在未來充實學校設備的情況要購買新的設備也可能會因應到一些關稅的衝擊我們也必須對他做實質上的一些支持所以他不全然相關但是他一定有他相關的地方"},{"start":191.559,"end":217.267,"text":"所以我認為這是整套作業下來的那這個如果條例通過之後這個相關的一些施行的細則出來之後會比較清楚啦因為我看那個條例條例當然基本上特別條例不會寫得太細那我是希望說這部分的話那請教一下部長那大概如果條例通過之後多久相關的這一個施行的這個細則或是辦法會出來讓大家會更了解說我們這200億要怎麼去做"},{"start":219.535,"end":241.073,"text":"謝謝委員跟委員報告其實在這一個事實上在現場還沒有宣布之前事實上我們教育部都已經有在內部作業而且我在整個高等教育我們因應這一個人才的需求跟產業所帶來衝擊裡邊包含這一個許多的Science跟Inc.020這個所謂的理工科的老師在"},{"start":241.954,"end":262.08,"text":"怎麼樣去能夠強化許多延攬因為現在如果委員我相信在各大也聽到很多的一個聲音大學端幾乎在理學院、工學院已經聘不到老師因為都往業界跑了都往業界跑但特別在關稅以後所造成的衝擊我們相信他可能會有一些"},{"start":263.101,"end":278.616,"text":"對高等教育人才培育上的一個再把他們拉回來所以我們現在現場看起來很特別只是這個產學怎麼樣去有一個更緊密的合作我們在人才培育有一些更新的創新模式能夠為台灣培養人才也能夠為產業所用這裡邊的R&D應該是"},{"start":282.119,"end":309.421,"text":"產學要更緊密的合作讓這裡邊的許多的一些人才元朗包含這一個留任的獎金我們怎麼樣有一些更開拓性的一些對未來的想像事實上我們教育部也已經都有充分的在討論而且那個辦法會隨著這一個我們通過以後我們會立即提出那應該是蠻短時間就可以提出來了嗎通常我們在條例通過之後就會"},{"start":311.119,"end":332.177,"text":"詳細的詳列一個特別預算裡面各個單項就會像一個預算書一樣很詳盡的向大院報告所以那時候股價先出來了肉就會跟著出來了那我現在要講一個比較嚴肅的話題就是說現在在Netflix上面有一個英國的戲劇叫做《混沌少年史》不曉得院長跟部長有沒有看過或是聽過"},{"start":334.582,"end":358.871,"text":"好,沒有關係有時間,因為最近大家比較忙那這個四個小時而已啦那其實它這個裡面的議題是提到就是說一個青少年他殺了他的女同學但是呢,他的這個話題或是這個議題裡面呢談到了一個校園的霸凌、網路的世代文化的隔閡、親子教育等等它發生在英國,但是它也有可能發生在全世界"},{"start":360.812,"end":381.485,"text":"這當然是跟衛福部也有相關 教育部也有相關國家衛生研究院在2022年調查了國小五年級到高中的三年級八千多位學生進行調查他發現包含性私密的影像外流 網路霸凌還有網路遊戲成癮等等都是年輕世代智商危險的因子"},{"start":382.225,"end":408.871,"text":"然後尤其是性私密影像外流跟這個網路霸凌會交織發生是最強的一個智商風險的一個因素那我們在去年底我們在立法院有這個通過了這個學生輔導法的一個修正案那我們當然就增加了這一個校園的專業的輔導人員但是現在問題就來了就是說這個方法是很好或是說做法是很好我們把這一個"},{"start":411.331,"end":430.444,"text":"這個國小跟國中的這一個班級數比如說現在是國小的話呢二十班呢就增加一名的專任輔導教師然後國中呢是十五呢調降到十二等等然後呢現在呢修法之後會增加603名的這個專任輔導的這個教師但是呢我們沒有這麼多的教師"},{"start":431.565,"end":448.528,"text":"在國中預計要到114年 國小最快到116年度才能夠聘足專業的輔導教師員額那所以說 半門打開了但是到目前為止還找不到符合資格的人那我請教一下院長跟部長這段空窗期那如何去因應咧"},{"start":451.486,"end":464.858,"text":"網路的霸凌或是網路世界這種虛擬的這個問題是國際性通信的問題啦國際通常都現在普遍存在每一個國家裡面所以有一個影片可以看得出來大家的一些國際性的問題"},{"start":466.039,"end":483.51,"text":"那現在我們對於心理輔導這個工作是一直希望年齡層要往下降次數要增加要達到他的效率但所以如果說因為輔導的教師不足教育部應該有相當的計畫跟現在執行的能力要如何來研究把這個"},{"start":484.964,"end":507.365,"text":"輔導的老師師資跟人數跟效率方面都要提升那部長這邊要不要再補充說明容我跟委員做一個可能需要比較長的一個時間報告在這個學輔還沒有通過事實上我們小學老師就有不足輔導老師就有不足但是我們師醫師事實上都有評估而且就我們"},{"start":508.479,"end":534.118,"text":"配合因應學務法所通過的因為是這個輔導人力的一個增加我們事實上是內部有討論怎麼樣有一些更快的包含專業團體的一些補救的一些措施包括施肢的培育包括結合專業教師的一些真人包含我們現在也跟我們包含我們下一學期也今年9月因為所有這些的問題事實上有更多的美國的經驗"},{"start":535.278,"end":549.248,"text":"這個研究的data有來自歐盟的data包含我們衛福部的data我們看到了一個智慧手機短影音所造成的青少年世代的許多的身心的一些負面的影響因為焦慮因為"},{"start":550.689,"end":565.827,"text":"因為右翼 因為智商 因為自殺等等這些我們事實上是有一個更完整的除了心理輔導老師的一個培訓真人包含導師的一個真人以外我們事實上還有一個更釜底抽薪我們從今年九月"},{"start":567.031,"end":591.154,"text":"全國的22個縣市教育局處長我也都跟他們親自交換意見全面家長學會教師學會全部都會來支持這樣的一個手機集中管理也就是說我們希望有一個更支持性的更健康的一個青少年的一個校園的一個學習環境甚至"},{"start":592.114,"end":610.603,"text":"讓他們一個組結有許多會造成心理負面傷害的這些能夠有一個更完善完成的一個改善包含怎麼樣去引用這個民間的這個力量SELO裡面能夠學校的許多的霸凌包括黑幫種種的許多問題"},{"start":611.383,"end":637.142,"text":"他當然不可能只有校長跟老師我們也希望家長包括社區的力量包括警政的力量我們全面的來做一個系統性的一些來改善部長剛才有提到應該是就是說禁用手機這部分那我提到就是說我們這個專業的輔導教師人我們基本上大概預估以我們現在的策略方案我們大概120大概就都會補齊到哪時候"},{"start":639.997,"end":655.347,"text":"120年那比這個預估的還要再更慢一點本來是國中是預計到114學年國小是預計到116學年跟我們報告這個是在沒有修法之前事實上也都達不到所以就是到120年"},{"start":661.65,"end":689.368,"text":"好 那另外就是說剛剛有提到說這個學生自殺的問題就是說自殺已成為6到12歲國小學生第六大的死因然後呢 在衛福部的統計在這個2024年的統計過去五年間12到17歲的青少年自殺的死亡人數呢從12.5%上升到18.4%自殺是成為青少年的這個十大死亡原因第二位那其實都有增加了"},{"start":691.094,"end":709.424,"text":"我要問的就是說我們在這個2023年有一個15歲到30歲的一個年輕族群心理健康支持方案然後去年我們增加我們延長到45歲就是變成說是15到45青壯世代心理健康支持方案那民眾每年有三次這個免費智商"},{"start":709.844,"end":731.596,"text":"好,那如果這樣子的話,那有沒有辦法就是說我們既然已經延長到45歲,那有沒有這個機會就是說我們再從15歲往下,向下延伸。因為現在就是有關這個青少年或是國小的孩子們其實在憂鬱這方面,或是說我們剛剛提到的說對於他們網路文化的一些影響,對他們會造成一些影響的話,能不能把這個諮商的這個年紀再往下降。"},{"start":732.435,"end":752.495,"text":"我剛剛委員報告我們年齡層有在下降我覺得我們應該往下去扎根讓更小的小朋友們他們不要受到這種心理上的障礙但是也必須考慮到我們現在針對新的修法之後國小跟國中每20班每12班都增加一名的輔導教師我們也必須在短時間能夠補足適當的時機"},{"start":756.538,"end":780.3,"text":"所以我才說有關這個心理諮商這方面的話能不能就向下延伸我希望能夠向下延伸而且三次並不一定要限定三次有的他比較情節需要的話甚至應該考量他達到一定的效果而不是限定三次因為的確看到有一些個案就是說他們就三次然後三次就結束了非常可惜"},{"start":781.22,"end":801.893,"text":"我是希望說能夠再向下再延伸那次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整那第二個就是說在目前的健保的給付對於兒少心理諮商的這個補助的話那其實是二十幾年來沒有做調整那就是說精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本增加調整那有沒有這個調整的可能性"},{"start":802.861,"end":819.913,"text":"我講一定是必要隨之在必須要調整的因為各方面的環境都在轉變那我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話會減少未來家庭的一個不幸的事件甚至犯罪事件甚至治安事件都可能會減少用這個來看政府的投資絕對是華德來值得的"},{"start":822.595,"end":840.108,"text":"那現在就是說家長他不願意讓小孩去這個兒童心智科就診另外一個隱性的原因就在於說有些保險公司還會跟你講就是說你如果你的小孩去看這個心理醫生的話那可能會影響到未來這個救保保險那個相關的權益的那所以這方面是不是能夠請"},{"start":841.048,"end":863.296,"text":"我們政府跟金管會來澄清就是說兒少的這個保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或是精神整治的影響那我想這方面我們政府如果有一個比較明確的一個宣示的話那也比較不會影響到說家長去帶小孩去做這個心理諮商或是去看這個兒童心智科的一些影響"},{"start":864.176,"end":887.282,"text":"原則性來講我們不希望這些小孩子被有標籤式的貼法無論是他在同儕之間甚至於我剛剛說的整個社會制度都不應該因為他接受這樣子而有不同的待遇所以我認為這個應該請我們相關單位要研究讓他能夠公平化能夠把他納到一個正常的管理範圍裡面來輔導他才是一個國家的正途"},{"start":888.206,"end":913.365,"text":"那教育部有沒有機會把心理健康的評量納入學生定期篩檢的項目裡面我想我們會有關心理的評量我想學校裡邊我們來看怎麼樣來協助青少年包含兒童但是有許多屬於專業的可能還是要跟衛福部來請益"},{"start":914.721,"end":939.171,"text":"好那其實我還有這個很多議題要問但是時間已經到了那所以剛剛比較一些嚴肅的一些問題我再請這個院長跟這個部長就好謝謝李坤誠委員執行謝謝主委院長教育部長貝許昀謝謝接下來我們請丁學忠委員執行委員劉書斌委員請準備"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":480,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（16時26分）謝謝主席，我們請卓院長還有鄭部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢，教育部請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：院長好、部長好。我接續剛剛蔡其昌委員的話題，我們的運動部在今年的8、9月會掛牌，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望是那個時間。"],["李委員坤城：關於運動部長的人選，我剛才聽到院長說全新的部長，全新的運動部，前瞻、亮眼，請問一下，大概符合什麼樣的條件可以來接運動部的部長？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們在籌設運動部的時候，我一直強調這不是體育署的升格，它是一個全新的運動部，它要有全民運動，它要有運動競技、有國際的事務，它還要有運動產業，還有適應體育等等，有多元的方向，跟過去單一的學校或是比賽的運動是截然不同的，我們需要一個全新的運動部，所以我們也要有一個具有不同視野的部長人選，我們現在正在多方的洽談尋覓當中。"],["李委員坤城：現在已經有在找適當的人選就對了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有幾個心裡的想法。"],["李委員坤城：我這樣聽起來，好像不是從我們原有的內閣裡面去找出來的，好像是去外面找的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：不過我要強調，一開始很多行政作業是必須要銜接的，這個銜接的工作非常繁複，我們也必須要有相當多行政上嫻熟的公務人員來做銜接工作，這倒是必要的。"],["李委員坤城：好，OK。再請教一下院長，我們現在已經通過「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例」，然後特別預算也增加到4,100億，在照顧民生這方面編列了1,670億，其中有200億是用於強化高等教育人才的培育。不過我聽到很多在野黨的委員覺得，這筆預算或是這個計畫本來就有了，他們認為這是不是在灌水，我請教一下院長或是部長，能不能把這個計畫再說清楚一點，為什麼在這個時候要把這200億加進去？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。雖然這是因應國際情勢強化安全韌性的特別條例，不全然單只是針對美國關稅貿易秩序的調整，但是不可否認，美國關稅貿易秩序調整會對我們國內各行各業造成衝擊。在產業上來講，更需要產學的合作，也更需要引入、延攬更多外國優秀人才進到我國來幫助產業，幫助學術研究，甚至很多學校在未來要充實學校設備，要購買新的設備，也可能會面臨到關稅的衝擊，我們也必須給予實質上的支持，或許不全然相關，但是一定有其相關之處，所以，我認為這是整套作業上來的。"],["李委員坤城：如果條例通過，相關的施行細則出來之後會比較清楚，因為我有看過那個條例草案，當然基本上特別條例不會寫得太細……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["李委員坤城：就這部分，請教一下部長，如果條例通過之後，大概多久相關的施行細則或是辦法會出來，讓大家能更了解這200億要怎麼去做？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。跟委員報告，在院長還沒有宣布之前，事實上我們教育部都已經在做內部作業，而且我們在因應整個高等教育人才的需求跟產業所帶來衝擊，包含許多的science跟engineering，所謂的理工科老師，怎麼樣能夠強化許多的延攬？因為現在如果委員……我相信委員也有聽到很多聲音，大學端的理學院、工學院幾乎已經聘不到老師，因為……"],["李委員坤城：都往業界跑了。"],["鄭部長英耀：都往業界跑。特別在這個關稅以後所造成的衝擊，相信可能會有一些對高等教育人才培育上的一個……"],["李委員坤城：再把他們拉回來？"],["鄭部長英耀：所以院長剛才也特別指示，產學要怎麼樣有一個更緊密的合作？我們在人才培育方面有一些更新的創新模式，能夠為臺灣培養人才，也能夠為產業所用，這裡邊的R＆D應該是產學要更緊密的合作，這裡邊許多的人才延攬，包含留任的獎金，我們怎麼樣有一些對未來更開拓性的想像？事實上，我們教育部也已經充分在討論，而且那個辦法會隨著我們通過以後，我們會立即提出。"],["李委員坤城：這樣子喔，那應該是滿短時間就可以提出來了嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，通常我們在條例通過之後就會很詳細的詳列一個特別預算，裡面各個單項就會像一個預算書一樣，很詳盡的向大院報告。"],["李委員坤城：所以那時候骨架先出來了，肉就會跟著出來了。我現在要講一個比較嚴肅的話題，現在Netflix上面有一個英國的戲劇叫做「混沌少年時」，不曉得院長跟部長有沒有看過或是聽過？好，沒有關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：質詢完了、結束以後……"],["李委員坤城：有時間的話，當然最近大家比較忙，4個小時而已啦。這裡面的議題是提到一個青少年殺了他的女同學，但是他的話題或是議題裡面有談到校園霸凌、網路世代文化隔閡、親子教育等等，這是發生在英國，但是也有可能發生在全世界。","當然這個是跟衛福部有相關，跟教育部也有相關。國家衛生研究院在2022年有針對國小五年級到高中三年級八千多位學生進行調查，他們發現包含性私密影像外流、網路霸凌，還有網路遊戲成癮等等，都是年輕世代自傷危險因子，尤其是性私密影像外流跟網路霸凌會交織發生，是最強的自傷風險因素。","去年底立法院有通過學生輔導法修正案，我們當然就有增加校園的專業輔導人員，但是現在問題就來了，就是說這個方法是很好，或是說做法是很好，我們把國小跟國中的班級數，比如說，現在國小是每20班就增置、增加1名專任輔導教師，國中是從每15班調降到每12班等等，然後在修法之後會增加603名專任輔導教師，但是我們沒有這麼多教師，國中預計要到114年，國小最快要116學年度才能夠聘足專業的輔導教師員額，所以大門打開了，但是到目前為止還找不到符合資格的人。我請教一下院長跟部長，這段空窗期要如何去因應？"],["卓院長榮泰：我想網路的霸凌或是網路世界這種虛擬的問題是國際性、通性的問題，現在普遍存在每一個國家裡面，所以由一個影片可以看得出來，這是一個國際性的問題。現在我們對於心理輔導這個工作是一直希望年齡層要往下降、次數要增加，要達到它的效率，所以如果說因為輔導的教師不足，教育部應該有相當的計畫跟現在執行的能力，要如何來研究把輔導老師師資、人數跟效率方面都要提升。"],["李委員坤城：部長這邊要不要再補充說明？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝，容我跟委員做一個比較長時間的報告。在學輔法還沒有通過之前，事實上，我們小學的輔導老師就有不足。"],["李委員坤城：是啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：但是我們師藝司事實上都有評估，而且就我們配合、因應學輔法所通過的，因為輔導人力的增加，事實上，我們內部有討論怎麼樣有一些更快的，包含專業團體的一些補救措施，包括師資的培育、包括結合專業教師的增能。也跟委員報告，我們下一學期，就是今年9月，所有這些問題事實上有更多美國的經驗、研究data，還有來自於歐盟的data，包含我們衛福部的data，我們看到一個智慧手機、短影音造成青少年世代許多身心的負面影響，因為焦慮、因為憂鬱、因為自傷、因為自殺等等，事實上我們有一個更完整的，除了心理輔導老師的培訓、增能，包含導師的增能以外，我們還有一個更釜底抽薪的，從今年9月全國22個縣市教育局處長，我也親自跟他們大家交換意見，家長協會、教師協會、校長協會全部都會來支持手機集中管理；也就是說，我們希望有一個更支持性的、更健康的青少年校園學習環境，甚至阻絕許多會讓他們造成心理負面傷害的這些因素，然後能夠有一個更完善、完整的改善，包含怎麼樣去引用民間的力量──SEL，還有學校裡面的霸凌、黑幫種種許多問題，這當然不可能只有校長跟老師，我們也希望家長，包括社區的力量、包括警政的力量，我們全面做一個系統性的改善。"],["李委員坤城：部長剛才有提到應該禁用手機這部分。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["李委員坤城：我提到的是我們的專業輔導教師人數不足的問題。"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上我們大概預估，以現在的策略方案，大概120就都會補齊。"],["李委員坤城：到哪時候？"],["鄭部長英耀：120年。"],["李委員坤城：120年？那比預估得還要再更慢一點，本來國中是預計到114學年，國小是預計到116學年。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，這個在沒有修法之前事實上也都達不到。"],["李委員坤城：修法之後，因為需要的人……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們有一直做內部的評估跟調整。"],["李委員坤城：所以就是到120年？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["李委員坤城：好，另外就是剛剛有提到學生自殺的問題，自殺已成為6到12歲國小學生的第六大死因。根據衛福部2024年的統計，過去5年間，12到17歲青少年自殺死亡人數從12.5%上升到18.4%，自殺成為青少年的十大死亡原因第二位，其實都有增加了。我要問的就是，在2023年有一個「15歲至30歲年輕族群心理健康支持方案」，去年我們將其延長到45歲，就是變成15到45歲「青壯世代心理健康支持方案」，民眾每年有3次的免費諮商。如果這樣子的話，我們既然已經延長到45歲，那有沒有這個機會可以再從15歲向下延伸？因為現在青少年或是國小的孩子們其實在憂鬱這方面，或是我們剛才提到的網路文化對他們會造成一些影響，能不能把諮商的年紀再往下降？"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛跟委員報告，我們年齡層有在下降，我覺得我們應該往下去扎根，讓更小的小朋友們不要受到這種心理上的障礙，但是也必須考慮到我們現在針對新的修法之後，國小跟國中分別是每20班、每12班都增加一名輔導教師，我們也必須在短時間能夠補足適當的師資。"],["李委員坤城：短時間是沒辦法補足的，所以我才說有關心理諮商這方面，能不能就向下延伸？這至少是比較快能夠做到的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望能夠向下延伸，而且次數並不一定要限定3次，有的情節比較需要的話，甚至應該考量達到一定的效果，而不是限定3次。"],["李委員坤城：因為的確看到有一些個案3次就結束了，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：非常可惜。"],["李委員坤城：我是希望能夠向下再延伸，至於次數就看經費是不是能夠再調整。第二個就是目前的健保給付對於兒少心理諮商的補助，其實是二十幾年來沒有調整，精神醫療給付沒有隨人力成本的增加而調整，請問有沒有調整的可能性？"],["卓院長榮泰：我想一定是必須隨之調整的，因為各方面的環境都在轉變，我覺得政府在這個地方多投注一些心力的話，會減少未來家庭的不幸事件，甚至犯罪事件，甚至治安事件，都可能會減少，用這個來看，政府的投資絕對是划得來、值得的。"],["李委員坤城：好。現在就是家長不願意讓小孩去兒童心智科就診的另外一個隱性原因就在於，有些保險公司會跟家長說，如果你的小孩去看心理醫生的話，可能會影響到未來保險的相關權益，所以這方面是不是能夠請政府跟金管會來澄清，兒少的保險權益不會因為你受到心理諮商或精神診治的影響，我想這方面政府如果有一個比較明確地宣示的話，也比較不會影響家長帶小孩去做心理諮商或去看兒童心智科。"],["卓院長榮泰：原則性來講，我們不希望這些小孩子被有標籤式的貼法，無論是同儕之間，甚至我剛剛說的整個社會制度，都不應該因為他接受這些而有不同的待遇，所以我認為應該請我們相關單位要研究、讓它能夠公平化，一律把它納到正常的管理範圍裡面來輔導他，才是一個國家的正途。"],["李委員坤城：好，教育部有沒有機會把心理健康的評量，納入學生定期篩檢的一個項目裡面？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想有關心理的評量，學校方面，我們來看怎麼樣協助青少年包含兒童，但是有許多屬於專業的，可能還是要跟衛福部來請益。"],["李委員坤城：好，其實我還有很多議題要問，但是時間已經到了，所以剛剛比較嚴肅的一些問題，我再請院長跟部長，就我剛剛所提出來一些問題，看能夠做調整的我們再來做調整。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝院長、謝謝部長。"],["主席：好，謝謝李坤城委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、教育部長備詢，謝謝。","接下來我們請丁學忠委員質詢，劉書彬委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-9","speakers":["韓國瑜","廖偉翔","顏寬恒","李彥秀","陳玉珍","馬文君","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","牛煦庭","黃珊珊","鍾佳濱","吳秉叡","沈發惠","許宇甄","李昆澤","林思銘","葛如鈞","許智傑","林倩綺","蔡其昌","吳沛憶","李坤城","丁學忠","劉書彬"],"page_start":99,"meetingDate":["2025-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00004","1143901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第9次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143901_00004"}}}