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0.978}, {\"word\": \"損\"}]}, {\"start\": 200.1, \"end\": 226.578, \"text\": \"需緊急疏散遊客整部緊急應變呢只針對風災水災正災天然災害水火災爆裂物疫情傳染等等的人為災害那當中的並沒有提到萬一發生停電的事件的時候要來如何保存文物那請教一下院長故宮的備用電源最長可以供電多久時間備用電源的涵蓋範圍有沒有包含文物庫房文物庫房的保全和監視系統\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 200.1, \"end\": 200.66, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"急\", \"start\": 200.66, \"end\": 200.881, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"疏\", \"start\": 200.881, \"end\": 201.061, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"散\", \"start\": 201.061, \"end\": 201.601, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"遊\"}, {\"word\": \"客\", \"start\": 201.601, \"end\": 202.222, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 202.222, \"end\": 202.542, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 202.542, \"end\": 203.002, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"急\", \"start\": 203.002, \"end\": 203.502, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 203.502, \"end\": 203.763, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": 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0.923}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 262.77, \"end\": 262.79, \"score\": 0.954}]}, {\"start\": 264.079, \"end\": 272.206, \"text\": \"存量22小時然後我們會補充備援全管嗎包含恆溫恆濕保全庫房整個院區包含庫房22小時對好這個多久檢查一次\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 264.079, \"end\": 264.479, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 264.479, \"end\": 265.3, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 265.3, \"end\": 265.48, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 265.48, \"end\": 265.62, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 265.62, \"end\": 266.121, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 266.121, \"end\": 266.781, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"充\", \"start\": 266.781, \"end\": 267.182, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"援\", \"start\": 267.182, \"end\": 267.522, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 267.522, \"end\": 267.822, \"score\": 0.976}, 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00:00:31,710\n好謝謝院長我想也是謝謝我們召委來特地代理主席也像昨天我在這個院會裡頭質詢我們的總統臺院長說大臺灣要這個大成功也要大合作我想這樣是一個很好的一個例子那我想今天院長想跟您請教這個西班牙和葡萄牙在4月28號中午爆發了大規模的停電導致交通燈\n\n3\n00:00:48,516 --> 00:01:02,934\n全數熄滅道路和機場可以說是一片混亂甚至有部分醫院也被迫暫停作業博物館等等的文教措施也可以說是難以倖免直到晚間兩國主要的城市才逐步復電\n\n4\n00:01:03,655 --> 00:01:21,184\n但要完全附電需要一週的時間本席上網查了一下位於西班牙馬德里的普拉多博物館從中午開始停電一直到晚上將近11點才恢復停電歷經了將近11小時在停電的期間除了暫停開放並疏散遊客以外\n\n5\n00:01:21,704 --> 00:01:49,317\n最重要的就是如何在停電的情況之下還要能夠維持文物的安全恆溫恆濕等等想請教一下院長院長這邊有沒有關注到核三廠二號機運轉到5月17號即將停機如果這個真的停機的話對於台灣將面臨第一個沒有核電的夏天很多專家學者都對於供電的穩定表示不太樂觀請問故宮有沒有針對停電的緊急應變處理做過演練\n\n6\n00:01:51,073 --> 00:02:10,974\n故宮有針對停電的情形做過研認而且事實上我們在去年的話也因為台北市那個工務局新工處他們施工的時候就挖斷電纜故宮突然停電了所以我們也經歷了一個突發緊急的一個事件的處理\n\n7\n00:02:11,935 --> 00:02:39,770\n挖斷電纜是一個因但是實際上停電就是果故宮還是要為這個果負責也要做好準備當時您提到這個事件歷經這個一分鐘立即啟動供電整起事件大概20分鐘落幕那根據故宮的回應是依據國立故宮博物院災害緊急應變作業要點來啟動這個所謂的緊急應變那這裡想要請教一下院長這個相關的作業要點當中有沒有關於停電事件的緊急應變程序\n\n8\n00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:55,134\n呃要點裡面緊急這個叫要點應該就是很重要嘛這個院長是不是應該你自己也要清楚喔有沒有跟停電有關停電事件有關的呃\n\n9\n00:02:58,301 --> 00:03:19,299\n因為我講說我入維護所冊裡面的話有沒有規定到那麼細我不曉得但是工作所則的話同仁這邊都有應變作業要點裡面有沒有停電事件沒關係我就幫你回答啦事實上我們幫院長仔細檢視了一下緊急應變作業要點當中發現只有提到電器受損\n\n10\n00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:46,578\n需緊急疏散遊客整部緊急應變呢只針對風災水災正災天然災害水火災爆裂物疫情傳染等等的人為災害那當中的並沒有提到萬一發生停電的事件的時候要來如何保存文物那請教一下院長故宮的備用電源最長可以供電多久時間備用電源的涵蓋範圍有沒有包含文物庫房文物庫房的保全和監視系統\n\n11\n00:03:51,502 --> 00:04:01,774\n基本上來講的話它的備用電源的話有包括那個展場跟那個庫房這個部分是有但是供電多長時間供電多長時間這個我就不會\n\n12\n00:04:08,882 --> 00:04:22,790\n因為我們如果轉換才有供電的話基本上是沒有問題可以持續供電就我們自用發電啦但是才有存量的問題吧那存量回答一下能運作多久啊備多久啊\n\n13\n00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:32,206\n存量22小時然後我們會補充備援全管嗎包含恆溫恆濕保全庫房整個院區包含庫房22小時對好這個多久檢查一次\n\n14\n00:04:39,372 --> 00:05:08,678\n因為我們現在樓下我們那個樓下還有一個加油站所以要調油的話可能也比較方便這個部分每個月檢查這個部分我回去我會請我們確認一下喔因為這個要22小時的供電我是不知道那個柴油要放多少而且院區這麼大喔需要多少量有具體數據嗎3000多公升3000多公升存放在哪裡\n\n15\n00:05:09,841 --> 00:05:27,161\n地下跟跟文物存在一起啊不會吧安全的地方戶外那個那個法委員這個我回去以後我會召開一個專案會議我把這些事情都弄清楚謝謝我想這個這個必要的規定都都把它補全\n\n16\n00:05:27,642 --> 00:05:44,191\n故宮安全很重要因為我們文物都在裡面我也看我們上次有去庫房這個保全和監視系統停電的狀態也要確定是可以運作的不然的話我們這個狀態我們看到有人如果不小心在裡面可能都不一定知道能不能出來\n\n17\n00:05:45,071 --> 00:06:04,100\n那再來呢我想除了避免因為突發的事件影響到文物安全其實我們也希望能夠落實庫房管理啦這也是上一次我們去訪查希望能夠了解的地方避免文物受到損害甚至有遭竊的風險當然我們理解故宮的管理是完善的但是2023年大英博物館就曾經發生過失竊的事件\n\n18\n00:06:06,101 --> 00:06:29,034\n估計高達2000件的文物遭竊而且後來才發現那這個時任館長呢也宣布辭職也是負責那今年1月的時候荷蘭的德倫特博物館也發生了這個竊盜事件其中有包括一頂擁有2500年歷史的黃金頭盔遭竊那故宮南院的庫房呢曾經也發生管理的疏失啦\n\n19\n00:06:30,235 --> 00:06:49,310\n這個有相關的人員啊這個沒有在名單裡面進去等等那因此兩週前我們就特地去了解一個狀況尤其是到故宮南院這裡當時院長也全程參與請教一下院長你的這個專業這個相關的作業流程你給故宮南院的這個庫房管理文物移動的表演作業程序你打幾分啊呃及格吧勉強勉強及格60分\n\n20\n00:06:57,241 --> 00:07:15,118\n我想其实我们当时在看南越已经运作很长的时间了我们觉得这样子的一个做法老实说真的是有非常非常大的加强空间那南越的管理流程是人员造册制作通行词卡核对身份证件换证领卡\n\n21\n00:07:15,618 --> 00:07:32,176\n那我先講第一個令人覺得吃驚的是假設故宮南院和北院是用同樣的門禁系統全院加起來70萬件國寶每件5000萬來算的話大概35兆台幣的這樣的價值甚至我想裡面有很多無價之寶更不用講結果進出庫房的門禁\n\n22\n00:07:34,258 --> 00:07:54,386\n我們不是用這個所謂的紅膜掃描臉部辨識甚至沒有指紋更不用說相關的這些先進的技術竟然是用一張十塊錢就可以買到的腹瀉感應卡來進出管制這張腹瀉卡其實很容易遺失甚至有可能被撿走甚至被複製請教一下院長我們故宮的庫房門禁幾乎就跟我們\n\n23\n00:08:00,333 --> 00:08:16,027\n社區大廈的管理方式是一樣這難道就是故宮對於國保重視的程度嗎不值得用高科技來防護嗎跟委員報告高科技當然是可以可是大家拿的那個卡我北苑的卡在南苑不能用南苑的卡北苑不能用\n\n24\n00:08:16,647 --> 00:08:42,884\n委員的卡那個是臨時卡但是真正拿卡是進不了的一定要兩位專業人員用那個指紋用紅膜去掃門才會開所以關鍵是那兩個同仁那個靜脈掃描不是因為那個卡就可以進得去那個卡只是去對照那個進庫房的人數真正要進入到庫房的話那個還是要有掃描才可以進去\n\n25\n00:08:43,504 --> 00:09:03,916\n那現在問題就來了,事實上院長您的回應剛好符合我待會要提的這個問題當天參觀的人員呢,你們說進行照冊嘛,其實就是這兩個這個管理的這個案指紋的人他覺得可以,這些人就可以進去事實上當時陰錯陽差啦,有某一個辦公室的同仁呢,有一個姓名是寫錯的\n\n26\n00:09:05,117 --> 00:09:28,217\n造成同音不同字的情況其實故宮全程沒有發現一樣讓他進入庫房等於是繼上次帶班清潔人進入庫房打掃之後又再一次出現同樣的問題不是說這個管理門禁的人有壓指紋就沒問題了其實也不是這樣子的相關的身份的如何驗證查核人臉有沒有辦法預先辨識訓練\n\n27\n00:09:29,918 --> 00:09:56,566\n其實有非常多新的方法可以來做我覺得那個RFID卡你說那等於說我們35兆的文物就仰賴這兩個人按指紋嗎院長你覺得這樣合理嗎當然更新的科技導入包括那個人臉辨識或是紅膜辨識基本上來講的話都是未來可行的可是以現在來講的話可能還是要需要一筆經費然後去做一個訓練是\n\n28\n00:09:58,467 --> 00:10:22,314\n我想這個院長我希望你們可以提出報告做檢討改善當時我們都看到了其實那邊數人頭數了老半天其實對管理人員來講也很困擾而且這個準確率我覺得會有一些狀況那現在正值故宮115年預算擬編概算的一個現狀也世界上發生多起文物遭竊的案件我們不管是因為地緣政治還是經濟的一個狀態我們希望\n\n29\n00:10:25,168 --> 00:10:44,319\n院方能不能向行政院積極爭取預算加強故宮庫房的防盜措施啊有沒有在這樣子規劃現在在你編嘛這個當然可以啦你不要現在在這裡講結果實際上編出來我們又看到又沒有可是跟委員報告喔跟委員報告喔如果那天的情況的話我這樣講用一個實務來講你就說60分啊我要\n\n30\n00:10:46,340 --> 00:11:14,830\n不是我要掃描這些委員這些助理的話基本上來講我不能拿他的身份證來掃描因為這個又不是護照所以他還是有他實際上的執行上的一個考量的工作要來處理並不是說我設了以後然後就是每個人進去就掃一下因為他是要院長你沒有直接回答我的問題我覺得不要繞你整個70萬件的國寶仰賴在這兩個人按指紋跟他肉眼比對你覺得這樣合理嗎\n\n31\n00:11:20,494 --> 00:11:45,927\n基本上來講的話一般正常的話就是入庫的人員都是我們自己的管員跟專案的包裝運輸公司不會突然有一大批這樣的一個人我想不要再逃避這個問題您自己也打60分之前就是有出現過沒有在名單裡面的人進去這次訪查陰錯陽差我們發現這樣的狀況還是有可能發生希望能編列相關的預算來解決同時要檢討報告\n\n32\n00:11:47,898 --> 00:12:07,218\n可不可以好這個部分的話我們當然很希望可以爭取更多的監會來精進庫房的管理好最後一個議題那我想這個也謝謝昭偉我再接一點時間這個我想最後來談一下故宮的定位今年這個消息出來其實大家都很心碎尤其是故宮的支持者\n\n33\n00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:25,782\n說參觀人數高達300萬人的第一名不是故宮博物院那剛剛那個人士很多人都提過了那今年是故宮百年的願慶其實大家都很希望看到更好的結果那我們其實有看到今年2月3月的參觀人是跟去年同期相比\n\n34\n00:12:26,443 --> 00:12:52,808\n不僅今年是百年喔不僅沒有增加反倒更加的減少請問你有沒有了解一下不增反減的原因還是說這其實就是你的KPI啊就是希望它越來越少難道是這樣嗎不是吧報告委員不是齁因為北院減少南院增加齁北院減少的話就是因為大美部委員剛剛講過一個人流過去對對北院也增加齁現在增加了啦就是\n\n35\n00:12:53,388 --> 00:13:15,864\n就是因為四月增加了我們四月還沒過完啊二三月就是減少啊數字都放在這裡啊北院啊但是現在的話現在的話加總的話都已經都已經上來了南院增加了更多沒關係啦我想這個長期的下降剛剛都說了以前有五六百萬人一年當然扣除掉觀光人士其實我們的本地觀光客也還是下降我們剛剛都看到數字其實我們有點懷疑這是跟故宮南院其實有明確的亞洲博物館的定位\n\n36\n00:13:21,528 --> 00:13:35,433\n故宮北院常年陷入定位不明甚至有點尷尬的狀態請問一下這個院長故宮北院的定位我們到底是不是能夠很明確的定位這個其實我們看了一下故宮北院它的定位一直都很清楚是什麼\n\n37\n00:13:36,519 --> 00:14:02,389\n就是一個華夏文物館華夏博物館就是以典藏中華文物為主的一個博物館很好所以事實上你們的官網上也講了這個China'sNationalCulture華夏的文物所以我想我希望給院長一個機會請院長大聲疾呼我們現在都有錄影直播是不是能夠幫我們喊一下歡迎世界各國的人一起來看\n\n38\n00:14:03,349 --> 00:14:31,452\n這個可不可以把我們最後一句話讓給你好不好就是我們幫你寫好了當然歡迎全世界各地各國的博物館到故宮來欣賞中華文物華夏文物的典藏那另外的話我們最近也跟那個教育部所屬的一個華語文教學的一個基金會合作我們希望把台灣有做華語文教育的70幾個學校通通變成是故宮的一個夥伴關係把故宮當作他們的教室\n\n39\n00:14:31,912 --> 00:14:38,937\n我想故宮是最沒有意識形態的地方啦希望大家一起來欣賞我們的華夏文武好不好OK大家一起努力謝謝好謝謝葛如君張偉院長請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t930\t謝謝代理主席有請故宮蕭中皇院長有請蕭院長蕭院長\n19585\t31710\t好謝謝院長我想也是謝謝我們召委來特地代理主席也像昨天我在這個院會裡頭質詢我們的總統臺院長說大臺灣要這個大成功也要大合作我想這樣是一個很好的一個例子那我想今天院長想跟您請教這個西班牙和葡萄牙在4月28號中午爆發了大規模的停電導致交通燈\n48516\t62934\t全數熄滅道路和機場可以說是一片混亂甚至有部分醫院也被迫暫停作業博物館等等的文教措施也可以說是難以倖免直到晚間兩國主要的城市才逐步復電\n63655\t81184\t但要完全附電需要一週的時間本席上網查了一下位於西班牙馬德里的普拉多博物館從中午開始停電一直到晚上將近11點才恢復停電歷經了將近11小時在停電的期間除了暫停開放並疏散遊客以外\n81704\t109317\t最重要的就是如何在停電的情況之下還要能夠維持文物的安全恆溫恆濕等等想請教一下院長院長這邊有沒有關注到核三廠二號機運轉到5月17號即將停機如果這個真的停機的話對於台灣將面臨第一個沒有核電的夏天很多專家學者都對於供電的穩定表示不太樂觀請問故宮有沒有針對停電的緊急應變處理做過演練\n111073\t130974\t故宮有針對停電的情形做過研認而且事實上我們在去年的話也因為台北市那個工務局新工處他們施工的時候就挖斷電纜故宮突然停電了所以我們也經歷了一個突發緊急的一個事件的處理\n131935\t159770\t挖斷電纜是一個因但是實際上停電就是果故宮還是要為這個果負責也要做好準備當時您提到這個事件歷經這個一分鐘立即啟動供電整起事件大概20分鐘落幕那根據故宮的回應是依據國立故宮博物院災害緊急應變作業要點來啟動這個所謂的緊急應變那這裡想要請教一下院長這個相關的作業要點當中有沒有關於停電事件的緊急應變程序\n162880\t175134\t呃 要點裡面緊急這個叫要點應該就是很重要嘛這個院長是不是應該你自己也要清楚喔有沒有跟停電有關 停電事件有關的呃\n178301\t199299\t因為我講說我入維護所冊裡面的話有沒有規定到那麼細我不曉得但是工作所則的話同仁這邊都有應變作業要點裡面有沒有停電事件沒關係我就幫你回答啦事實上我們幫院長仔細檢視了一下緊急應變作業要點當中發現只有提到電器受損\n200100\t226578\t需緊急疏散遊客整部緊急應變呢只針對風災水災正災天然災害水火災爆裂物疫情傳染等等的人為災害那當中的並沒有提到萬一發生停電的事件的時候要來如何保存文物那請教一下院長故宮的備用電源最長可以供電多久時間備用電源的涵蓋範圍有沒有包含文物庫房文物庫房的保全和監視系統\n231502\t241774\t基本上來講的話它的備用電源的話有包括那個展場跟那個庫房這個部分是有但是供電多長時間供電多長時間這個我就不會\n248882\t262790\t因為我們如果轉換才有供電的話基本上是沒有問題可以持續供電就我們自用發電啦但是才有存量的問題吧那存量回答一下能運作多久啊備多久啊\n264079\t272206\t存量22小時然後我們會補充備援全管嗎包含恆溫恆濕保全庫房整個院區包含庫房22小時對好這個多久檢查一次\n279372\t308678\t因為我們現在樓下我們那個樓下還有一個加油站所以要調油的話可能也比較方便這個部分每個月檢查這個部分我回去我會請我們確認一下喔因為這個要22小時的供電我是不知道那個柴油要放多少而且院區這麼大喔需要多少量有具體數據嗎3000多公升3000多公升存放在哪裡\n309841\t327161\t地下跟跟文物存在一起啊不會吧安全的地方戶外那個那個法委員這個我回去以後我會召開一個專案會議我把這些事情都弄清楚謝謝我想這個這個必要的規定都都把它補全\n327642\t344191\t故宮安全很重要因為我們文物都在裡面我也看我們上次有去庫房這個保全和監視系統停電的狀態也要確定是可以運作的不然的話我們這個狀態我們看到有人如果不小心在裡面可能都不一定知道能不能出來\n345071\t364100\t那再來呢我想除了避免因為突發的事件影響到文物安全其實我們也希望能夠落實庫房管理啦這也是上一次我們去訪查希望能夠了解的地方避免文物受到損害甚至有遭竊的風險當然我們理解故宮的管理是完善的但是2023年大英博物館就曾經發生過失竊的事件\n366101\t389034\t估計高達2000件的文物遭竊 而且後來才發現那這個時任館長呢 也宣布辭職 也是負責那今年1月的時候 荷蘭的德倫特博物館也發生了這個竊盜事件其中有包括一頂 擁有2500年歷史的黃金頭盔遭竊那故宮南院的庫房呢 曾經也發生管理的疏失啦\n390235\t409310\t這個有相關的人員啊這個沒有在名單裡面進去等等那因此兩週前我們就特地去了解一個狀況尤其是到故宮南院這裡當時院長也全程參與請教一下院長你的這個專業這個相關的作業流程你給故宮南院的這個庫房管理文物移動的表演作業程序你打幾分啊呃及格吧勉強勉強及格60分\n417241\t435118\t我想其实我们当时在看南越已经运作很长的时间了我们觉得这样子的一个做法老实说真的是有非常非常大的加强空间那南越的管理流程是人员造册制作通行词卡核对身份证件换证领卡\n435618\t452176\t那我先講第一個令人覺得吃驚的是假設故宮南院和北院是用同樣的門禁系統全院加起來70萬件國寶每件5000萬來算的話大概35兆台幣的這樣的價值甚至我想裡面有很多無價之寶更不用講結果進出庫房的門禁\n454258\t474386\t我們不是用這個所謂的紅膜掃描臉部辨識甚至沒有指紋更不用說相關的這些先進的技術竟然是用一張十塊錢就可以買到的腹瀉感應卡來進出管制這張腹瀉卡其實很容易遺失甚至有可能被撿走甚至被複製請教一下院長我們故宮的庫房門禁幾乎就跟我們\n480333\t496027\t社區大廈的管理方式是一樣這難道就是故宮對於國保重視的程度嗎不值得用高科技來防護嗎跟委員報告高科技當然是可以可是大家拿的那個卡我北苑的卡在南苑不能用南苑的卡北苑不能用\n496647\t522884\t委員的卡那個是臨時卡但是真正拿卡是進不了的一定要兩位專業人員用那個指紋用紅膜去掃門才會開所以關鍵是那兩個同仁那個靜脈掃描不是因為那個卡就可以進得去那個卡只是去對照那個進庫房的人數真正要進入到庫房的話那個還是要有掃描才可以進去\n523504\t543916\t那現在問題就來了,事實上院長您的回應剛好符合我待會要提的這個問題當天參觀的人員呢,你們說進行照冊嘛,其實就是這兩個這個管理的這個案指紋的人他覺得可以,這些人就可以進去事實上當時陰錯陽差啦,有某一個辦公室的同仁呢,有一個姓名是寫錯的\n545117\t568217\t造成同音不同字的情況其實故宮全程沒有發現一樣讓他進入庫房等於是繼上次帶班清潔人進入庫房打掃之後又再一次出現同樣的問題不是說這個管理門禁的人有壓指紋就沒問題了其實也不是這樣子的相關的身份的如何驗證查核人臉有沒有辦法預先辨識訓練\n569918\t596566\t其實有非常多新的方法可以來做我覺得那個RFID卡你說那等於說我們35兆的文物就仰賴這兩個人按指紋嗎院長你覺得這樣合理嗎當然更新的科技導入包括那個人臉辨識或是紅膜辨識基本上來講的話都是未來可行的可是以現在來講的話可能還是要需要一筆經費然後去做一個訓練是\n598467\t622314\t我想這個院長我希望你們可以提出報告做檢討改善當時我們都看到了其實那邊數人頭數了老半天其實對管理人員來講也很困擾而且這個準確率我覺得會有一些狀況那現在正值故宮115年預算擬編概算的一個現狀也世界上發生多起文物遭竊的案件我們不管是因為地緣政治還是經濟的一個狀態我們希望\n625168\t644319\t院方能不能向行政院積極爭取預算加強故宮庫房的防盜措施啊有沒有在這樣子規劃現在在你編嘛這個當然可以啦你不要現在在這裡講結果實際上編出來我們又看到又沒有可是跟委員報告喔跟委員報告喔如果那天的情況的話我這樣講用一個實務來講你就說60分啊我要\n646340\t674830\t不是我要掃描這些委員這些助理的話基本上來講我不能拿他的身份證來掃描因為這個又不是護照所以他還是有他實際上的執行上的一個考量的工作要來處理並不是說我設了以後然後就是每個人進去就掃一下因為他是要院長你沒有直接回答我的問題我覺得不要繞你整個70萬件的國寶仰賴在這兩個人按指紋跟他肉眼比對你覺得這樣合理嗎\n680494\t705927\t基本上來講的話一般正常的話就是入庫的人員都是我們自己的管員跟專案的包裝運輸公司不會突然有一大批這樣的一個人我想不要再逃避這個問題您自己也打60分之前就是有出現過沒有在名單裡面的人進去這次訪查陰錯陽差我們發現這樣的狀況還是有可能發生希望能編列相關的預算來解決同時要檢討報告\n707898\t727218\t可不可以好這個部分的話我們當然很希望可以爭取更多的監會來精進庫房的管理好最後一個議題那我想這個也謝謝昭偉我再接一點時間這個我想最後來談一下故宮的定位今年這個消息出來其實大家都很心碎尤其是故宮的支持者\n728680\t745782\t說參觀人數高達300萬人的第一名不是故宮博物院那剛剛那個人士很多人都提過了那今年是故宮百年的願慶其實大家都很希望看到更好的結果那我們其實有看到今年2月3月的參觀人是跟去年同期相比\n746443\t772808\t不僅今年是百年喔不僅沒有增加反倒更加的減少請問你有沒有了解一下不增反減的原因還是說這其實就是你的KPI啊就是希望它越來越少難道是這樣嗎不是吧報告委員不是齁因為北院減少南院增加齁北院減少的話就是因為大美部委員剛剛講過一個人流過去對對北院也增加齁現在增加了啦就是\n773388\t795864\t就是因為四月增加了我們四月還沒過完啊二三月就是減少啊數字都放在這裡啊北院啊但是現在的話現在的話加總的話都已經都已經上來了南院增加了更多沒關係啦我想這個長期的下降剛剛都說了以前有五六百萬人一年當然扣除掉觀光人士其實我們的本地觀光客也還是下降我們剛剛都看到數字其實我們有點懷疑這是跟故宮南院其實有明確的亞洲博物館的定位\n801528\t815433\t故宮北院常年陷入定位不明甚至有點尷尬的狀態請問一下這個院長故宮北院的定位我們到底是不是能夠很明確的定位這個其實我們看了一下故宮北院它的定位一直都很清楚是什麼\n816519\t842389\t就是一個華夏文物館 華夏博物館就是以典藏中華文物為主的一個博物館很好所以事實上你們的官網上也講了這個China's National Culture華夏的文物所以我想我希望給院長一個機會請院長大聲疾呼我們現在都有錄影直播是不是能夠幫我們喊一下歡迎世界各國的人一起來看\n843349\t871452\t這個可不可以把我們最後一句話讓給你好不好就是我們幫你寫好了當然歡迎全世界各地各國的博物館到故宮來欣賞中華文物華夏文物的典藏那另外的話我們最近也跟那個教育部所屬的一個華語文教學的一個基金會合作我們希望把台灣有做華語文教育的70幾個學校通通變成是故宮的一個夥伴關係把故宮當作他們的教室\n871912\t878937\t我想故宮是最沒有意識形態的地方啦希望大家一起來欣賞我們的華夏文武 好不好OK大家一起努力 謝謝好 謝謝葛如君 張偉 院長請回\n","txt":"謝謝代理主席有請故宮蕭中皇院長有請蕭院長蕭院長\n好謝謝院長我想也是謝謝我們召委來特地代理主席也像昨天我在這個院會裡頭質詢我們的總統臺院長說大臺灣要這個大成功也要大合作我想這樣是一個很好的一個例子那我想今天院長想跟您請教這個西班牙和葡萄牙在4月28號中午爆發了大規模的停電導致交通燈\n全數熄滅道路和機場可以說是一片混亂甚至有部分醫院也被迫暫停作業博物館等等的文教措施也可以說是難以倖免直到晚間兩國主要的城市才逐步復電\n但要完全附電需要一週的時間本席上網查了一下位於西班牙馬德里的普拉多博物館從中午開始停電一直到晚上將近11點才恢復停電歷經了將近11小時在停電的期間除了暫停開放並疏散遊客以外\n最重要的就是如何在停電的情況之下還要能夠維持文物的安全恆溫恆濕等等想請教一下院長院長這邊有沒有關注到核三廠二號機運轉到5月17號即將停機如果這個真的停機的話對於台灣將面臨第一個沒有核電的夏天很多專家學者都對於供電的穩定表示不太樂觀請問故宮有沒有針對停電的緊急應變處理做過演練\n故宮有針對停電的情形做過研認而且事實上我們在去年的話也因為台北市那個工務局新工處他們施工的時候就挖斷電纜故宮突然停電了所以我們也經歷了一個突發緊急的一個事件的處理\n挖斷電纜是一個因但是實際上停電就是果故宮還是要為這個果負責也要做好準備當時您提到這個事件歷經這個一分鐘立即啟動供電整起事件大概20分鐘落幕那根據故宮的回應是依據國立故宮博物院災害緊急應變作業要點來啟動這個所謂的緊急應變那這裡想要請教一下院長這個相關的作業要點當中有沒有關於停電事件的緊急應變程序\n呃 要點裡面緊急這個叫要點應該就是很重要嘛這個院長是不是應該你自己也要清楚喔有沒有跟停電有關 停電事件有關的呃\n因為我講說我入維護所冊裡面的話有沒有規定到那麼細我不曉得但是工作所則的話同仁這邊都有應變作業要點裡面有沒有停電事件沒關係我就幫你回答啦事實上我們幫院長仔細檢視了一下緊急應變作業要點當中發現只有提到電器受損\n需緊急疏散遊客整部緊急應變呢只針對風災水災正災天然災害水火災爆裂物疫情傳染等等的人為災害那當中的並沒有提到萬一發生停電的事件的時候要來如何保存文物那請教一下院長故宮的備用電源最長可以供電多久時間備用電源的涵蓋範圍有沒有包含文物庫房文物庫房的保全和監視系統\n基本上來講的話它的備用電源的話有包括那個展場跟那個庫房這個部分是有但是供電多長時間供電多長時間這個我就不會\n因為我們如果轉換才有供電的話基本上是沒有問題可以持續供電就我們自用發電啦但是才有存量的問題吧那存量回答一下能運作多久啊備多久啊\n存量22小時然後我們會補充備援全管嗎包含恆溫恆濕保全庫房整個院區包含庫房22小時對好這個多久檢查一次\n因為我們現在樓下我們那個樓下還有一個加油站所以要調油的話可能也比較方便這個部分每個月檢查這個部分我回去我會請我們確認一下喔因為這個要22小時的供電我是不知道那個柴油要放多少而且院區這麼大喔需要多少量有具體數據嗎3000多公升3000多公升存放在哪裡\n地下跟跟文物存在一起啊不會吧安全的地方戶外那個那個法委員這個我回去以後我會召開一個專案會議我把這些事情都弄清楚謝謝我想這個這個必要的規定都都把它補全\n故宮安全很重要因為我們文物都在裡面我也看我們上次有去庫房這個保全和監視系統停電的狀態也要確定是可以運作的不然的話我們這個狀態我們看到有人如果不小心在裡面可能都不一定知道能不能出來\n那再來呢我想除了避免因為突發的事件影響到文物安全其實我們也希望能夠落實庫房管理啦這也是上一次我們去訪查希望能夠了解的地方避免文物受到損害甚至有遭竊的風險當然我們理解故宮的管理是完善的但是2023年大英博物館就曾經發生過失竊的事件\n估計高達2000件的文物遭竊 而且後來才發現那這個時任館長呢 也宣布辭職 也是負責那今年1月的時候 荷蘭的德倫特博物館也發生了這個竊盜事件其中有包括一頂 擁有2500年歷史的黃金頭盔遭竊那故宮南院的庫房呢 曾經也發生管理的疏失啦\n這個有相關的人員啊這個沒有在名單裡面進去等等那因此兩週前我們就特地去了解一個狀況尤其是到故宮南院這裡當時院長也全程參與請教一下院長你的這個專業這個相關的作業流程你給故宮南院的這個庫房管理文物移動的表演作業程序你打幾分啊呃及格吧勉強勉強及格60分\n我想其实我们当时在看南越已经运作很长的时间了我们觉得这样子的一个做法老实说真的是有非常非常大的加强空间那南越的管理流程是人员造册制作通行词卡核对身份证件换证领卡\n那我先講第一個令人覺得吃驚的是假設故宮南院和北院是用同樣的門禁系統全院加起來70萬件國寶每件5000萬來算的話大概35兆台幣的這樣的價值甚至我想裡面有很多無價之寶更不用講結果進出庫房的門禁\n我們不是用這個所謂的紅膜掃描臉部辨識甚至沒有指紋更不用說相關的這些先進的技術竟然是用一張十塊錢就可以買到的腹瀉感應卡來進出管制這張腹瀉卡其實很容易遺失甚至有可能被撿走甚至被複製請教一下院長我們故宮的庫房門禁幾乎就跟我們\n社區大廈的管理方式是一樣這難道就是故宮對於國保重視的程度嗎不值得用高科技來防護嗎跟委員報告高科技當然是可以可是大家拿的那個卡我北苑的卡在南苑不能用南苑的卡北苑不能用\n委員的卡那個是臨時卡但是真正拿卡是進不了的一定要兩位專業人員用那個指紋用紅膜去掃門才會開所以關鍵是那兩個同仁那個靜脈掃描不是因為那個卡就可以進得去那個卡只是去對照那個進庫房的人數真正要進入到庫房的話那個還是要有掃描才可以進去\n那現在問題就來了,事實上院長您的回應剛好符合我待會要提的這個問題當天參觀的人員呢,你們說進行照冊嘛,其實就是這兩個這個管理的這個案指紋的人他覺得可以,這些人就可以進去事實上當時陰錯陽差啦,有某一個辦公室的同仁呢,有一個姓名是寫錯的\n造成同音不同字的情況其實故宮全程沒有發現一樣讓他進入庫房等於是繼上次帶班清潔人進入庫房打掃之後又再一次出現同樣的問題不是說這個管理門禁的人有壓指紋就沒問題了其實也不是這樣子的相關的身份的如何驗證查核人臉有沒有辦法預先辨識訓練\n其實有非常多新的方法可以來做我覺得那個RFID卡你說那等於說我們35兆的文物就仰賴這兩個人按指紋嗎院長你覺得這樣合理嗎當然更新的科技導入包括那個人臉辨識或是紅膜辨識基本上來講的話都是未來可行的可是以現在來講的話可能還是要需要一筆經費然後去做一個訓練是\n我想這個院長我希望你們可以提出報告做檢討改善當時我們都看到了其實那邊數人頭數了老半天其實對管理人員來講也很困擾而且這個準確率我覺得會有一些狀況那現在正值故宮115年預算擬編概算的一個現狀也世界上發生多起文物遭竊的案件我們不管是因為地緣政治還是經濟的一個狀態我們希望\n院方能不能向行政院積極爭取預算加強故宮庫房的防盜措施啊有沒有在這樣子規劃現在在你編嘛這個當然可以啦你不要現在在這裡講結果實際上編出來我們又看到又沒有可是跟委員報告喔跟委員報告喔如果那天的情況的話我這樣講用一個實務來講你就說60分啊我要\n不是我要掃描這些委員這些助理的話基本上來講我不能拿他的身份證來掃描因為這個又不是護照所以他還是有他實際上的執行上的一個考量的工作要來處理並不是說我設了以後然後就是每個人進去就掃一下因為他是要院長你沒有直接回答我的問題我覺得不要繞你整個70萬件的國寶仰賴在這兩個人按指紋跟他肉眼比對你覺得這樣合理嗎\n基本上來講的話一般正常的話就是入庫的人員都是我們自己的管員跟專案的包裝運輸公司不會突然有一大批這樣的一個人我想不要再逃避這個問題您自己也打60分之前就是有出現過沒有在名單裡面的人進去這次訪查陰錯陽差我們發現這樣的狀況還是有可能發生希望能編列相關的預算來解決同時要檢討報告\n可不可以好這個部分的話我們當然很希望可以爭取更多的監會來精進庫房的管理好最後一個議題那我想這個也謝謝昭偉我再接一點時間這個我想最後來談一下故宮的定位今年這個消息出來其實大家都很心碎尤其是故宮的支持者\n說參觀人數高達300萬人的第一名不是故宮博物院那剛剛那個人士很多人都提過了那今年是故宮百年的願慶其實大家都很希望看到更好的結果那我們其實有看到今年2月3月的參觀人是跟去年同期相比\n不僅今年是百年喔不僅沒有增加反倒更加的減少請問你有沒有了解一下不增反減的原因還是說這其實就是你的KPI啊就是希望它越來越少難道是這樣嗎不是吧報告委員不是齁因為北院減少南院增加齁北院減少的話就是因為大美部委員剛剛講過一個人流過去對對北院也增加齁現在增加了啦就是\n就是因為四月增加了我們四月還沒過完啊二三月就是減少啊數字都放在這裡啊北院啊但是現在的話現在的話加總的話都已經都已經上來了南院增加了更多沒關係啦我想這個長期的下降剛剛都說了以前有五六百萬人一年當然扣除掉觀光人士其實我們的本地觀光客也還是下降我們剛剛都看到數字其實我們有點懷疑這是跟故宮南院其實有明確的亞洲博物館的定位\n故宮北院常年陷入定位不明甚至有點尷尬的狀態請問一下這個院長故宮北院的定位我們到底是不是能夠很明確的定位這個其實我們看了一下故宮北院它的定位一直都很清楚是什麼\n就是一個華夏文物館 華夏博物館就是以典藏中華文物為主的一個博物館很好所以事實上你們的官網上也講了這個China's National Culture華夏的文物所以我想我希望給院長一個機會請院長大聲疾呼我們現在都有錄影直播是不是能夠幫我們喊一下歡迎世界各國的人一起來看\n這個可不可以把我們最後一句話讓給你好不好就是我們幫你寫好了當然歡迎全世界各地各國的博物館到故宮來欣賞中華文物華夏文物的典藏那另外的話我們最近也跟那個教育部所屬的一個華語文教學的一個基金會合作我們希望把台灣有做華語文教育的70幾個學校通通變成是故宮的一個夥伴關係把故宮當作他們的教室\n我想故宮是最沒有意識形態的地方啦希望大家一起來欣賞我們的華夏文武 好不好OK大家一起努力 謝謝好 謝謝葛如君 張偉 院長請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:00.930\n謝謝代理主席有請故宮蕭中皇院長有請蕭院長蕭院長\n\n00:19.585 --> 00:31.710\n好謝謝院長我想也是謝謝我們召委來特地代理主席也像昨天我在這個院會裡頭質詢我們的總統臺院長說大臺灣要這個大成功也要大合作我想這樣是一個很好的一個例子那我想今天院長想跟您請教這個西班牙和葡萄牙在4月28號中午爆發了大規模的停電導致交通燈\n\n00:48.516 --> 01:02.934\n全數熄滅道路和機場可以說是一片混亂甚至有部分醫院也被迫暫停作業博物館等等的文教措施也可以說是難以倖免直到晚間兩國主要的城市才逐步復電\n\n01:03.655 --> 01:21.184\n但要完全附電需要一週的時間本席上網查了一下位於西班牙馬德里的普拉多博物館從中午開始停電一直到晚上將近11點才恢復停電歷經了將近11小時在停電的期間除了暫停開放並疏散遊客以外\n\n01:21.704 --> 01:49.317\n最重要的就是如何在停電的情況之下還要能夠維持文物的安全恆溫恆濕等等想請教一下院長院長這邊有沒有關注到核三廠二號機運轉到5月17號即將停機如果這個真的停機的話對於台灣將面臨第一個沒有核電的夏天很多專家學者都對於供電的穩定表示不太樂觀請問故宮有沒有針對停電的緊急應變處理做過演練\n\n01:51.073 --> 02:10.974\n故宮有針對停電的情形做過研認而且事實上我們在去年的話也因為台北市那個工務局新工處他們施工的時候就挖斷電纜故宮突然停電了所以我們也經歷了一個突發緊急的一個事件的處理\n\n02:11.935 --> 02:39.770\n挖斷電纜是一個因但是實際上停電就是果故宮還是要為這個果負責也要做好準備當時您提到這個事件歷經這個一分鐘立即啟動供電整起事件大概20分鐘落幕那根據故宮的回應是依據國立故宮博物院災害緊急應變作業要點來啟動這個所謂的緊急應變那這裡想要請教一下院長這個相關的作業要點當中有沒有關於停電事件的緊急應變程序\n\n02:42.880 --> 02:55.134\n呃要點裡面緊急這個叫要點應該就是很重要嘛這個院長是不是應該你自己也要清楚喔有沒有跟停電有關停電事件有關的呃\n\n02:58.301 --> 03:19.299\n因為我講說我入維護所冊裡面的話有沒有規定到那麼細我不曉得但是工作所則的話同仁這邊都有應變作業要點裡面有沒有停電事件沒關係我就幫你回答啦事實上我們幫院長仔細檢視了一下緊急應變作業要點當中發現只有提到電器受損\n\n03:20.100 --> 03:46.578\n需緊急疏散遊客整部緊急應變呢只針對風災水災正災天然災害水火災爆裂物疫情傳染等等的人為災害那當中的並沒有提到萬一發生停電的事件的時候要來如何保存文物那請教一下院長故宮的備用電源最長可以供電多久時間備用電源的涵蓋範圍有沒有包含文物庫房文物庫房的保全和監視系統\n\n03:51.502 --> 04:01.774\n基本上來講的話它的備用電源的話有包括那個展場跟那個庫房這個部分是有但是供電多長時間供電多長時間這個我就不會\n\n04:08.882 --> 04:22.790\n因為我們如果轉換才有供電的話基本上是沒有問題可以持續供電就我們自用發電啦但是才有存量的問題吧那存量回答一下能運作多久啊備多久啊\n\n04:24.079 --> 04:32.206\n存量22小時然後我們會補充備援全管嗎包含恆溫恆濕保全庫房整個院區包含庫房22小時對好這個多久檢查一次\n\n04:39.372 --> 05:08.678\n因為我們現在樓下我們那個樓下還有一個加油站所以要調油的話可能也比較方便這個部分每個月檢查這個部分我回去我會請我們確認一下喔因為這個要22小時的供電我是不知道那個柴油要放多少而且院區這麼大喔需要多少量有具體數據嗎3000多公升3000多公升存放在哪裡\n\n05:09.841 --> 05:27.161\n地下跟跟文物存在一起啊不會吧安全的地方戶外那個那個法委員這個我回去以後我會召開一個專案會議我把這些事情都弄清楚謝謝我想這個這個必要的規定都都把它補全\n\n05:27.642 --> 05:44.191\n故宮安全很重要因為我們文物都在裡面我也看我們上次有去庫房這個保全和監視系統停電的狀態也要確定是可以運作的不然的話我們這個狀態我們看到有人如果不小心在裡面可能都不一定知道能不能出來\n\n05:45.071 --> 06:04.100\n那再來呢我想除了避免因為突發的事件影響到文物安全其實我們也希望能夠落實庫房管理啦這也是上一次我們去訪查希望能夠了解的地方避免文物受到損害甚至有遭竊的風險當然我們理解故宮的管理是完善的但是2023年大英博物館就曾經發生過失竊的事件\n\n06:06.101 --> 06:29.034\n估計高達2000件的文物遭竊而且後來才發現那這個時任館長呢也宣布辭職也是負責那今年1月的時候荷蘭的德倫特博物館也發生了這個竊盜事件其中有包括一頂擁有2500年歷史的黃金頭盔遭竊那故宮南院的庫房呢曾經也發生管理的疏失啦\n\n06:30.235 --> 06:49.310\n這個有相關的人員啊這個沒有在名單裡面進去等等那因此兩週前我們就特地去了解一個狀況尤其是到故宮南院這裡當時院長也全程參與請教一下院長你的這個專業這個相關的作業流程你給故宮南院的這個庫房管理文物移動的表演作業程序你打幾分啊呃及格吧勉強勉強及格60分\n\n06:57.241 --> 07:15.118\n我想其实我们当时在看南越已经运作很长的时间了我们觉得这样子的一个做法老实说真的是有非常非常大的加强空间那南越的管理流程是人员造册制作通行词卡核对身份证件换证领卡\n\n07:15.618 --> 07:32.176\n那我先講第一個令人覺得吃驚的是假設故宮南院和北院是用同樣的門禁系統全院加起來70萬件國寶每件5000萬來算的話大概35兆台幣的這樣的價值甚至我想裡面有很多無價之寶更不用講結果進出庫房的門禁\n\n07:34.258 --> 07:54.386\n我們不是用這個所謂的紅膜掃描臉部辨識甚至沒有指紋更不用說相關的這些先進的技術竟然是用一張十塊錢就可以買到的腹瀉感應卡來進出管制這張腹瀉卡其實很容易遺失甚至有可能被撿走甚至被複製請教一下院長我們故宮的庫房門禁幾乎就跟我們\n\n08:00.333 --> 08:16.027\n社區大廈的管理方式是一樣這難道就是故宮對於國保重視的程度嗎不值得用高科技來防護嗎跟委員報告高科技當然是可以可是大家拿的那個卡我北苑的卡在南苑不能用南苑的卡北苑不能用\n\n08:16.647 --> 08:42.884\n委員的卡那個是臨時卡但是真正拿卡是進不了的一定要兩位專業人員用那個指紋用紅膜去掃門才會開所以關鍵是那兩個同仁那個靜脈掃描不是因為那個卡就可以進得去那個卡只是去對照那個進庫房的人數真正要進入到庫房的話那個還是要有掃描才可以進去\n\n08:43.504 --> 09:03.916\n那現在問題就來了,事實上院長您的回應剛好符合我待會要提的這個問題當天參觀的人員呢,你們說進行照冊嘛,其實就是這兩個這個管理的這個案指紋的人他覺得可以,這些人就可以進去事實上當時陰錯陽差啦,有某一個辦公室的同仁呢,有一個姓名是寫錯的\n\n09:05.117 --> 09:28.217\n造成同音不同字的情況其實故宮全程沒有發現一樣讓他進入庫房等於是繼上次帶班清潔人進入庫房打掃之後又再一次出現同樣的問題不是說這個管理門禁的人有壓指紋就沒問題了其實也不是這樣子的相關的身份的如何驗證查核人臉有沒有辦法預先辨識訓練\n\n09:29.918 --> 09:56.566\n其實有非常多新的方法可以來做我覺得那個RFID卡你說那等於說我們35兆的文物就仰賴這兩個人按指紋嗎院長你覺得這樣合理嗎當然更新的科技導入包括那個人臉辨識或是紅膜辨識基本上來講的話都是未來可行的可是以現在來講的話可能還是要需要一筆經費然後去做一個訓練是\n\n09:58.467 --> 10:22.314\n我想這個院長我希望你們可以提出報告做檢討改善當時我們都看到了其實那邊數人頭數了老半天其實對管理人員來講也很困擾而且這個準確率我覺得會有一些狀況那現在正值故宮115年預算擬編概算的一個現狀也世界上發生多起文物遭竊的案件我們不管是因為地緣政治還是經濟的一個狀態我們希望\n\n10:25.168 --> 10:44.319\n院方能不能向行政院積極爭取預算加強故宮庫房的防盜措施啊有沒有在這樣子規劃現在在你編嘛這個當然可以啦你不要現在在這裡講結果實際上編出來我們又看到又沒有可是跟委員報告喔跟委員報告喔如果那天的情況的話我這樣講用一個實務來講你就說60分啊我要\n\n10:46.340 --> 11:14.830\n不是我要掃描這些委員這些助理的話基本上來講我不能拿他的身份證來掃描因為這個又不是護照所以他還是有他實際上的執行上的一個考量的工作要來處理並不是說我設了以後然後就是每個人進去就掃一下因為他是要院長你沒有直接回答我的問題我覺得不要繞你整個70萬件的國寶仰賴在這兩個人按指紋跟他肉眼比對你覺得這樣合理嗎\n\n11:20.494 --> 11:45.927\n基本上來講的話一般正常的話就是入庫的人員都是我們自己的管員跟專案的包裝運輸公司不會突然有一大批這樣的一個人我想不要再逃避這個問題您自己也打60分之前就是有出現過沒有在名單裡面的人進去這次訪查陰錯陽差我們發現這樣的狀況還是有可能發生希望能編列相關的預算來解決同時要檢討報告\n\n11:47.898 --> 12:07.218\n可不可以好這個部分的話我們當然很希望可以爭取更多的監會來精進庫房的管理好最後一個議題那我想這個也謝謝昭偉我再接一點時間這個我想最後來談一下故宮的定位今年這個消息出來其實大家都很心碎尤其是故宮的支持者\n\n12:08.680 --> 12:25.782\n說參觀人數高達300萬人的第一名不是故宮博物院那剛剛那個人士很多人都提過了那今年是故宮百年的願慶其實大家都很希望看到更好的結果那我們其實有看到今年2月3月的參觀人是跟去年同期相比\n\n12:26.443 --> 12:52.808\n不僅今年是百年喔不僅沒有增加反倒更加的減少請問你有沒有了解一下不增反減的原因還是說這其實就是你的KPI啊就是希望它越來越少難道是這樣嗎不是吧報告委員不是齁因為北院減少南院增加齁北院減少的話就是因為大美部委員剛剛講過一個人流過去對對北院也增加齁現在增加了啦就是\n\n12:53.388 --> 13:15.864\n就是因為四月增加了我們四月還沒過完啊二三月就是減少啊數字都放在這裡啊北院啊但是現在的話現在的話加總的話都已經都已經上來了南院增加了更多沒關係啦我想這個長期的下降剛剛都說了以前有五六百萬人一年當然扣除掉觀光人士其實我們的本地觀光客也還是下降我們剛剛都看到數字其實我們有點懷疑這是跟故宮南院其實有明確的亞洲博物館的定位\n\n13:21.528 --> 13:35.433\n故宮北院常年陷入定位不明甚至有點尷尬的狀態請問一下這個院長故宮北院的定位我們到底是不是能夠很明確的定位這個其實我們看了一下故宮北院它的定位一直都很清楚是什麼\n\n13:36.519 --> 14:02.389\n就是一個華夏文物館華夏博物館就是以典藏中華文物為主的一個博物館很好所以事實上你們的官網上也講了這個China'sNationalCulture華夏的文物所以我想我希望給院長一個機會請院長大聲疾呼我們現在都有錄影直播是不是能夠幫我們喊一下歡迎世界各國的人一起來看\n\n14:03.349 --> 14:31.452\n這個可不可以把我們最後一句話讓給你好不好就是我們幫你寫好了當然歡迎全世界各地各國的博物館到故宮來欣賞中華文物華夏文物的典藏那另外的話我們最近也跟那個教育部所屬的一個華語文教學的一個基金會合作我們希望把台灣有做華語文教育的70幾個學校通通變成是故宮的一個夥伴關係把故宮當作他們的教室\n\n14:31.912 --> 14:38.937\n我想故宮是最沒有意識形態的地方啦希望大家一起來欣賞我們的華夏文武好不好OK大家一起努力謝謝好謝謝葛如君張偉院長請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.93,"text":"謝謝代理主席有請故宮蕭中皇院長有請蕭院長蕭院長"},{"start":19.585,"end":31.71,"text":"好謝謝院長我想也是謝謝我們召委來特地代理主席也像昨天我在這個院會裡頭質詢我們的總統臺院長說大臺灣要這個大成功也要大合作我想這樣是一個很好的一個例子那我想今天院長想跟您請教這個西班牙和葡萄牙在4月28號中午爆發了大規模的停電導致交通燈"},{"start":48.516,"end":62.934,"text":"全數熄滅道路和機場可以說是一片混亂甚至有部分醫院也被迫暫停作業博物館等等的文教措施也可以說是難以倖免直到晚間兩國主要的城市才逐步復電"},{"start":63.655,"end":81.184,"text":"但要完全附電需要一週的時間本席上網查了一下位於西班牙馬德里的普拉多博物館從中午開始停電一直到晚上將近11點才恢復停電歷經了將近11小時在停電的期間除了暫停開放並疏散遊客以外"},{"start":81.704,"end":109.317,"text":"最重要的就是如何在停電的情況之下還要能夠維持文物的安全恆溫恆濕等等想請教一下院長院長這邊有沒有關注到核三廠二號機運轉到5月17號即將停機如果這個真的停機的話對於台灣將面臨第一個沒有核電的夏天很多專家學者都對於供電的穩定表示不太樂觀請問故宮有沒有針對停電的緊急應變處理做過演練"},{"start":111.073,"end":130.974,"text":"故宮有針對停電的情形做過研認而且事實上我們在去年的話也因為台北市那個工務局新工處他們施工的時候就挖斷電纜故宮突然停電了所以我們也經歷了一個突發緊急的一個事件的處理"},{"start":131.935,"end":159.77,"text":"挖斷電纜是一個因但是實際上停電就是果故宮還是要為這個果負責也要做好準備當時您提到這個事件歷經這個一分鐘立即啟動供電整起事件大概20分鐘落幕那根據故宮的回應是依據國立故宮博物院災害緊急應變作業要點來啟動這個所謂的緊急應變那這裡想要請教一下院長這個相關的作業要點當中有沒有關於停電事件的緊急應變程序"},{"start":162.88,"end":175.134,"text":"呃 要點裡面緊急這個叫要點應該就是很重要嘛這個院長是不是應該你自己也要清楚喔有沒有跟停電有關 停電事件有關的呃"},{"start":178.301,"end":199.299,"text":"因為我講說我入維護所冊裡面的話有沒有規定到那麼細我不曉得但是工作所則的話同仁這邊都有應變作業要點裡面有沒有停電事件沒關係我就幫你回答啦事實上我們幫院長仔細檢視了一下緊急應變作業要點當中發現只有提到電器受損"},{"start":200.1,"end":226.578,"text":"需緊急疏散遊客整部緊急應變呢只針對風災水災正災天然災害水火災爆裂物疫情傳染等等的人為災害那當中的並沒有提到萬一發生停電的事件的時候要來如何保存文物那請教一下院長故宮的備用電源最長可以供電多久時間備用電源的涵蓋範圍有沒有包含文物庫房文物庫房的保全和監視系統"},{"start":231.502,"end":241.774,"text":"基本上來講的話它的備用電源的話有包括那個展場跟那個庫房這個部分是有但是供電多長時間供電多長時間這個我就不會"},{"start":248.882,"end":262.79,"text":"因為我們如果轉換才有供電的話基本上是沒有問題可以持續供電就我們自用發電啦但是才有存量的問題吧那存量回答一下能運作多久啊備多久啊"},{"start":264.079,"end":272.206,"text":"存量22小時然後我們會補充備援全管嗎包含恆溫恆濕保全庫房整個院區包含庫房22小時對好這個多久檢查一次"},{"start":279.372,"end":308.678,"text":"因為我們現在樓下我們那個樓下還有一個加油站所以要調油的話可能也比較方便這個部分每個月檢查這個部分我回去我會請我們確認一下喔因為這個要22小時的供電我是不知道那個柴油要放多少而且院區這麼大喔需要多少量有具體數據嗎3000多公升3000多公升存放在哪裡"},{"start":309.841,"end":327.161,"text":"地下跟跟文物存在一起啊不會吧安全的地方戶外那個那個法委員這個我回去以後我會召開一個專案會議我把這些事情都弄清楚謝謝我想這個這個必要的規定都都把它補全"},{"start":327.642,"end":344.191,"text":"故宮安全很重要因為我們文物都在裡面我也看我們上次有去庫房這個保全和監視系統停電的狀態也要確定是可以運作的不然的話我們這個狀態我們看到有人如果不小心在裡面可能都不一定知道能不能出來"},{"start":345.071,"end":364.1,"text":"那再來呢我想除了避免因為突發的事件影響到文物安全其實我們也希望能夠落實庫房管理啦這也是上一次我們去訪查希望能夠了解的地方避免文物受到損害甚至有遭竊的風險當然我們理解故宮的管理是完善的但是2023年大英博物館就曾經發生過失竊的事件"},{"start":366.101,"end":389.034,"text":"估計高達2000件的文物遭竊 而且後來才發現那這個時任館長呢 也宣布辭職 也是負責那今年1月的時候 荷蘭的德倫特博物館也發生了這個竊盜事件其中有包括一頂 擁有2500年歷史的黃金頭盔遭竊那故宮南院的庫房呢 曾經也發生管理的疏失啦"},{"start":390.235,"end":409.31,"text":"這個有相關的人員啊這個沒有在名單裡面進去等等那因此兩週前我們就特地去了解一個狀況尤其是到故宮南院這裡當時院長也全程參與請教一下院長你的這個專業這個相關的作業流程你給故宮南院的這個庫房管理文物移動的表演作業程序你打幾分啊呃及格吧勉強勉強及格60分"},{"start":417.241,"end":435.118,"text":"我想其实我们当时在看南越已经运作很长的时间了我们觉得这样子的一个做法老实说真的是有非常非常大的加强空间那南越的管理流程是人员造册制作通行词卡核对身份证件换证领卡"},{"start":435.618,"end":452.176,"text":"那我先講第一個令人覺得吃驚的是假設故宮南院和北院是用同樣的門禁系統全院加起來70萬件國寶每件5000萬來算的話大概35兆台幣的這樣的價值甚至我想裡面有很多無價之寶更不用講結果進出庫房的門禁"},{"start":454.258,"end":474.386,"text":"我們不是用這個所謂的紅膜掃描臉部辨識甚至沒有指紋更不用說相關的這些先進的技術竟然是用一張十塊錢就可以買到的腹瀉感應卡來進出管制這張腹瀉卡其實很容易遺失甚至有可能被撿走甚至被複製請教一下院長我們故宮的庫房門禁幾乎就跟我們"},{"start":480.333,"end":496.027,"text":"社區大廈的管理方式是一樣這難道就是故宮對於國保重視的程度嗎不值得用高科技來防護嗎跟委員報告高科技當然是可以可是大家拿的那個卡我北苑的卡在南苑不能用南苑的卡北苑不能用"},{"start":496.647,"end":522.884,"text":"委員的卡那個是臨時卡但是真正拿卡是進不了的一定要兩位專業人員用那個指紋用紅膜去掃門才會開所以關鍵是那兩個同仁那個靜脈掃描不是因為那個卡就可以進得去那個卡只是去對照那個進庫房的人數真正要進入到庫房的話那個還是要有掃描才可以進去"},{"start":523.504,"end":543.916,"text":"那現在問題就來了,事實上院長您的回應剛好符合我待會要提的這個問題當天參觀的人員呢,你們說進行照冊嘛,其實就是這兩個這個管理的這個案指紋的人他覺得可以,這些人就可以進去事實上當時陰錯陽差啦,有某一個辦公室的同仁呢,有一個姓名是寫錯的"},{"start":545.117,"end":568.217,"text":"造成同音不同字的情況其實故宮全程沒有發現一樣讓他進入庫房等於是繼上次帶班清潔人進入庫房打掃之後又再一次出現同樣的問題不是說這個管理門禁的人有壓指紋就沒問題了其實也不是這樣子的相關的身份的如何驗證查核人臉有沒有辦法預先辨識訓練"},{"start":569.918,"end":596.566,"text":"其實有非常多新的方法可以來做我覺得那個RFID卡你說那等於說我們35兆的文物就仰賴這兩個人按指紋嗎院長你覺得這樣合理嗎當然更新的科技導入包括那個人臉辨識或是紅膜辨識基本上來講的話都是未來可行的可是以現在來講的話可能還是要需要一筆經費然後去做一個訓練是"},{"start":598.467,"end":622.314,"text":"我想這個院長我希望你們可以提出報告做檢討改善當時我們都看到了其實那邊數人頭數了老半天其實對管理人員來講也很困擾而且這個準確率我覺得會有一些狀況那現在正值故宮115年預算擬編概算的一個現狀也世界上發生多起文物遭竊的案件我們不管是因為地緣政治還是經濟的一個狀態我們希望"},{"start":625.168,"end":644.319,"text":"院方能不能向行政院積極爭取預算加強故宮庫房的防盜措施啊有沒有在這樣子規劃現在在你編嘛這個當然可以啦你不要現在在這裡講結果實際上編出來我們又看到又沒有可是跟委員報告喔跟委員報告喔如果那天的情況的話我這樣講用一個實務來講你就說60分啊我要"},{"start":646.34,"end":674.83,"text":"不是我要掃描這些委員這些助理的話基本上來講我不能拿他的身份證來掃描因為這個又不是護照所以他還是有他實際上的執行上的一個考量的工作要來處理並不是說我設了以後然後就是每個人進去就掃一下因為他是要院長你沒有直接回答我的問題我覺得不要繞你整個70萬件的國寶仰賴在這兩個人按指紋跟他肉眼比對你覺得這樣合理嗎"},{"start":680.494,"end":705.927,"text":"基本上來講的話一般正常的話就是入庫的人員都是我們自己的管員跟專案的包裝運輸公司不會突然有一大批這樣的一個人我想不要再逃避這個問題您自己也打60分之前就是有出現過沒有在名單裡面的人進去這次訪查陰錯陽差我們發現這樣的狀況還是有可能發生希望能編列相關的預算來解決同時要檢討報告"},{"start":707.898,"end":727.218,"text":"可不可以好這個部分的話我們當然很希望可以爭取更多的監會來精進庫房的管理好最後一個議題那我想這個也謝謝昭偉我再接一點時間這個我想最後來談一下故宮的定位今年這個消息出來其實大家都很心碎尤其是故宮的支持者"},{"start":728.68,"end":745.782,"text":"說參觀人數高達300萬人的第一名不是故宮博物院那剛剛那個人士很多人都提過了那今年是故宮百年的願慶其實大家都很希望看到更好的結果那我們其實有看到今年2月3月的參觀人是跟去年同期相比"},{"start":746.443,"end":772.808,"text":"不僅今年是百年喔不僅沒有增加反倒更加的減少請問你有沒有了解一下不增反減的原因還是說這其實就是你的KPI啊就是希望它越來越少難道是這樣嗎不是吧報告委員不是齁因為北院減少南院增加齁北院減少的話就是因為大美部委員剛剛講過一個人流過去對對北院也增加齁現在增加了啦就是"},{"start":773.388,"end":795.864,"text":"就是因為四月增加了我們四月還沒過完啊二三月就是減少啊數字都放在這裡啊北院啊但是現在的話現在的話加總的話都已經都已經上來了南院增加了更多沒關係啦我想這個長期的下降剛剛都說了以前有五六百萬人一年當然扣除掉觀光人士其實我們的本地觀光客也還是下降我們剛剛都看到數字其實我們有點懷疑這是跟故宮南院其實有明確的亞洲博物館的定位"},{"start":801.528,"end":815.433,"text":"故宮北院常年陷入定位不明甚至有點尷尬的狀態請問一下這個院長故宮北院的定位我們到底是不是能夠很明確的定位這個其實我們看了一下故宮北院它的定位一直都很清楚是什麼"},{"start":816.519,"end":842.389,"text":"就是一個華夏文物館 華夏博物館就是以典藏中華文物為主的一個博物館很好所以事實上你們的官網上也講了這個China's National Culture華夏的文物所以我想我希望給院長一個機會請院長大聲疾呼我們現在都有錄影直播是不是能夠幫我們喊一下歡迎世界各國的人一起來看"},{"start":843.349,"end":871.452,"text":"這個可不可以把我們最後一句話讓給你好不好就是我們幫你寫好了當然歡迎全世界各地各國的博物館到故宮來欣賞中華文物華夏文物的典藏那另外的話我們最近也跟那個教育部所屬的一個華語文教學的一個基金會合作我們希望把台灣有做華語文教育的70幾個學校通通變成是故宮的一個夥伴關係把故宮當作他們的教室"},{"start":871.912,"end":878.937,"text":"我想故宮是最沒有意識形態的地方啦希望大家一起來欣賞我們的華夏文武 好不好OK大家一起努力 謝謝好 謝謝葛如君 張偉 院長請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":189,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時44分）謝謝代理主席，有請故宮蕭宗煌院長。"],["主席：有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：召委早。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝院長，我也謝謝我們召委特地來代理主席，像我昨天在院會裡質詢我們的卓榮泰院長說，大臺灣要大成功，也要大合作，我想這是一個很好的例子。我今天想跟院長請教，西班牙和葡萄牙在4月28號中午爆發了大規模的停電，導致交通號誌全數熄滅，道路和機場一片混亂，甚至有部分醫院也被迫暫停作業，博物館等等的文教設施也難以倖免，直到晚間兩國主要的城市才逐步復電，但要完全復電需要一週的時間。本席上網查了一下，位於西班牙馬德里的普拉多博物館從中午開始停電，一直到晚上將近11點才復電，歷經了將近11小時，在停電的期間，除了暫停開放並疏散遊客以外，最重要的就是如何在停電的情況之下，還要能夠維持文物的安全、恆溫、恆溼等等。想請教一下院長，院長有沒有關注到核三廠二號機運轉到5月17號即將停機？如果真的停機，臺灣將面臨第一個沒有核電的夏天，很多專家學者都對於供電的穩定表示不太樂觀，請問故宮有沒有針對停電的緊急應變做過演練？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮有針對停電的情形做過演練，事實上我們在去年，也因為臺北市工務局新工處，他們在施工的時候挖斷電纜讓故宮突然停電，所以我們也經歷了一個突發緊急事件的處理。"],["葛委員如鈞：好。挖斷電纜是一個因，但實際上停電就是果，故宮還是要為這個果負責，也要做好準備。您提到這個事件，當時歷經1分鐘立即啟動供電，整起事件大概20分鐘落幕，而根據故宮的回應，是依據國立故宮博物院災害緊急應變作業要點來啟動所謂的緊急應變。這裡想要請教一下院長，相關的作業要點當中，有沒有關於停電事件的緊急應變程序？"],["蕭院長宗煌：要點裡面緊急……"],["葛委員如鈞：這個叫「要點」應該就是很重要嘛，院長是不是……應該你自己也要清楚啊！有沒有跟停電事件有關的？不確定？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我這樣說，文物維護手冊裡面有沒有規定到那麼細，我不曉得，但是工作守則同仁那邊都有，所以我們……"],["葛委員如鈞：應變作業要點裡面有沒有停電事件？沒關係，我就幫你回答啦！事實上，我們幫院長仔細檢視了一下緊急應變作業要點，發現只有提到電器受損需緊急疏散遊客，整部緊急應變作業要點只針對風災、水災、震災等天然災害；及火災、爆裂物、疫病情傳染等人為災害，當中並沒有提到萬一發生停電的事件的時候要如何來保存文物。請教一下院長，故宮的備用電源最長可以供電多久時間？備用電源的涵蓋範圍有沒有包含文物庫房？文物庫房的保全和監視系統能不能在停電的狀態之下正常運作？請回復。"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，備用電源有包括展場跟庫房，這個部分是有，但是……"],["葛委員如鈞：供電多長時間？"],["蕭院長宗煌：供電多長時間這個我就不知……因為我們如果轉換柴油供電的話，基本上是沒有問題，可以持續供電，就是我們自用發電，但是柴油存量多少我不曉得。"],["葛委員如鈞：總有存量的問題吧？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，對，對，所以這個部分我……"],["葛委員如鈞：回答一下存量能運作多久，備了多少？"],["蕭院長宗煌：存量22小時，然後我們會補充備援。"],["葛委員如鈞：全館嗎？包含恆溫、恆濕、保全、庫房整個院區？"],["蕭院長宗煌：庫房和展場。"],["葛委員如鈞：包含庫房？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：22小時？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，多久檢查一次？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為我們現在樓下還有一個加油站，所以要調油可能也比較方便，這個部分每個月會檢查一次。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，院長有信心啦？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個部分，回去我會請我們的……"],["葛委員如鈞：要確認一下喔！"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，請我們整個……"],["葛委員如鈞：因為要22小時的供電，我是不知道柴油要放多少，而且院區這麼大喔，需要多少量，有具體數據嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：三千多公升。"],["葛委員如鈞：三千多公升存放在哪裡？"],["蕭院長宗煌：地下……"],["葛委員如鈞：跟文物存在一起啊？不會吧？安全的地方？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，我回去以後會召開一個專案會議，把這些事情都弄清楚，然後把必要的規定都把它補全。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝，故宮的安全很重要啦！因為文物都在裡面。我們上次有去庫房，保全和監視系統在停電的狀態下也要確定是可以運作的，不然在這種狀態，如果有人不小心在裡面，可能都不一定知道能不能出得來。","再來，除了避免因為突發事件影響到文物安全，我們也希望能夠落實庫房管理，這也是上一次我們去訪查，希望能夠了解的地方，避免文物受到損害，甚至有遭竊的風險。當然，我們理解故宮的管理是完善，但在2023年大英博物館就曾經發生過失竊的事件，估計高達2,000件的文物遭竊，而且後來才發現，時任館長也宣布辭職以示負責；在今年1月的時候，荷蘭的德倫特博物館也發生了竊盜事件，其中有包括一頂擁有2,500年歷史的黃金頭盔遭竊；而故宮南院的庫房也曾經發生管理的疏失，像是沒有在名單裡的人員闖入等等。因此，在兩週前，我們就特地去了解狀況，尤其是到故宮南院，當時院長也全程參與，請教一下院長，以您的專業，您給故宮南院庫房管理文物移動的標準作業程序打幾分？"],["蕭院長宗煌：勉強及格吧！"],["葛委員如鈞：勉強及格，60分。好，其實南院已經運作很長的時間了，我們覺得這樣的一個作法，老實說真的是有非常非常大的加強空間，南院的管理流程是人員造冊、製作通行磁卡、核對身分證件及換證領卡，我覺得第一個令人吃驚的是，假設故宮南院和北院是用同樣的門禁系統，全院加起來70萬件國寶，每件以5,000萬來計算的話，大概有35兆臺幣的價值，甚至裡面有很多無價之寶，更不用講，結果進出庫房的門禁，我們不是用所謂的「虹膜辨識」及「臉部辨識」，甚至沒有指紋，更不用說相關的先進的技術，竟然是用一張十塊錢就可以買到的複寫感應卡作為進出管制，這張覆寫卡其實很容易遺失，甚至有可能被撿走，甚至被複製，院長請教一下，我們故宮的庫房門禁幾乎就跟我們社區大廈的管理方式一樣，這難道就是故宮對於國寶重視的程度嗎？不值得用高科技系統來防護嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，高科技當然是可以，可是大家所拿的那個卡，北院的卡在南院不能用，南院的卡在北院不能用，委員拿的卡是臨時卡，但是真正拿卡是進不了的，一定要有兩位專業人員用指紋及虹膜辨識，門才會開，所以關鍵是那兩位同仁要用靜脈掃描，不是拿那個卡就可以進得去，那個卡只是對照進入庫房的人數，真正要進入到庫房的話，還是要有掃描辨識才可以進去。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，現在問題就來了，事實上，您的回應剛好符合我待會要提的問題，當天參觀的人員，你們說進行造冊，其實就是這兩位按壓指紋的管理人員，他覺得可以，這些人就可以進去。事實上，當時陰錯陽差，有某一位辦公室同仁的姓名是寫錯的，造成同音不同字的情況，故宮全程沒有發現，一樣讓他進入庫房，等於是繼上次代班清潔人員進入庫房打掃後，又再一次出現同樣的問題，不是說管理門禁的人有壓指紋就沒問題了，也不是這樣子的。如何驗證查核相關人員的身分？人臉有沒有辦法預先辨識及訓練？其實有非常多新的方法可以做。我覺得一個RFID卡，等於我們那35兆的文物，就仰賴這兩個人按指紋嗎？院長覺得這樣合理嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然可以讓更新的科技導入，包括「人臉辨識」或是「虹膜辨識」，基本上都是未來可行的，可是以現在來講，可能還是需要一筆經費，然後去做訓練。"],["葛委員如鈞：是，院長，我希望你們可以提出報告作檢討改善，當時我們都看到了，數人頭數了老半天，其實對管理人員來講也很困擾，而且我覺得這個準確率會有一些狀況。現在正值故宮115年度預算擬編概算，世界上發生多起文物遭竊的案件，不管是因為地緣政治還是經濟的狀態，我們希望院方能向行政院積極爭取預算，加強故宮庫房的防盜措施，有沒有在這樣的規劃？現在在擬編嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個當然可以，可是……"],["葛委員如鈞：你不要現在在這裡講，結果實際上編出來，我又沒有看到。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，如果就那天的情況，我用實務來說明……"],["葛委員如鈞：你就說60分啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，要掃描這些委員及助理的話，基本上，我不能拿他們的身分證來掃描，因為這個又不是護照，所以它還是有實際執行上考量的工作要處理，並不是設置了以後，然後每個人進去就掃一下，因為這是要經過存檔……"],["葛委員如鈞：院長沒有直接回答我問題，我覺得不要繞，整個70萬件的國寶，仰賴在這兩個人按指紋跟肉眼比對，你覺得這樣合理嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上，一般正常的話，入庫的人員都是我們自己的館員跟專案的包裝運輸公司人員，不會突然有一大批這樣的人。"],["葛委員如鈞：院長不要再逃避這個問題，您自己也打60分，之前就是有出現過沒有在名單裡面的人進去，這次訪查陰錯陽差，我們發現這樣的狀況還是有可能發生，希望能編列相關的預算來解決，同時要有檢討報告，可不可以？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，針對這個部分，我們當然希望可以爭取更多的經費來精進庫房的管理。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，最後一個議題，謝謝召委，我再借一點時間。最後來談有關故宮的定位，今年這個消息出來，其實大家都很心碎，尤其是故宮的支持者，新聞報導提到博物館參觀人數高達300萬人的第一名不是故宮博物院，這個人次剛剛很多人都提過了，今年是故宮百年的院慶，大家都很希望看到更好的結果，我們有看到今年2月及3月的參觀人數跟去年同期相比，今年是百年喔！不僅沒有增加，反倒更加的減少，請問您有沒有了解一下不增反減的原因？還是這就是你的KPI，希望人次越來越少，難道是這樣嗎？不是吧？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，不是，是北院減少，南院增加，而北院減少的原因，是因為「大美不言」特展，剛剛提到一個人流過去……現在北院也有增加了，就是因為……"],["葛委員如鈞：4月增加了，是不是？4月還沒過完，2月及3月就是減少，北院的數字都放在這裡啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在北院人次加總起來都已經上來了，南院增加了更多。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒關係，這個長期的下降，剛剛都說了，以前一年有五、六百萬人，扣除掉外國觀光人次，其實我們的本地觀光客也還是下降，我們剛剛都看到數字了。我們有點懷疑，這次跟故宮南院有明確亞洲博物館的定位，故宮北院長年陷入定位不明，甚至有點尷尬的狀態，請問院長，故宮北院到底是不是能夠很明確的定位？其實我們看了一下你們在……"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮北院的定位一直都很清楚。"],["葛委員如鈞：是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：就是一個華夏博物館，以典藏中華文物為主的博物館。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，事實上，你們的官網上也講了，「China's national culture」華夏的文物，希望給院長一個機會，請院長大聲疾呼，我們現在都有錄影直播，是不是能夠幫我們喊一下「歡迎世界各國的旅客一起來欣賞」？可不可以幫我們喊一下？最後一句話讓給你，好不好？我們幫你寫好了。"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然歡迎全世界各國各地的旅客到故宮來欣賞中華文物、華夏文物的典藏。另外，我們最近有跟教育部所屬華語文教學的基金會合作，希望把臺灣有做華語文教育的七十幾個學校，通通變成是故宮的夥伴關係，把故宮當作他們的教室。"],["葛委員如鈞：故宮是最沒有意識形態的地方，希望大家一起來欣賞我們的華夏文物，好不好？大家一起努力，謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["主席：好，謝謝葛如鈞召委，院長請回。"],["主席（葛委員如鈞）：接下來請林宜瑾召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-9","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","林宜瑾","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","范雲","郭昱晴","陳冠廷","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林沛祥","張雅琳"],"page_start":315,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00007"}}}